March 11, 2025 • 8 mins
Join host Sam Rhee on this episode as he explores the surprising empathy skills of AI chatbots and what we can learn from them to become better listeners. Drawing from Jamil Zaki's insights, we discuss how chatbots like ChatGPT often outperform humans in making people feel heard and understood.
He explains how chatbots avoid common human mistakes by focusing on the other person, validating their feelings, and asking follow-up questions, rather than jumping to solutions or sharing personal anecdotes.
Sam also highlights the practical applications of these skills in both personal and professional settings, while acknowledging the limitations of AI empathy. Tune in for valuable tips on how to enhance your listening skills and create more meaningful connections.
#BotoxAndBurpees #health #movement #fitness #chatbots #empathy #AI #psychology #selfimprovement #mindfulness #compassion #active listening #humanconnection #listeningskills #emotionalsupport #professionaldevelopment
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hi, welcome to Botox and Burpees.
I'm Sam Rhee, and today'sepisode is about the surprising
empathy skills of AI chatbotsand what we as human beings can
learn from chatbots to becomebetter listeners.
I read an article written byJamil Zaki, a psychology
professor at Stanford University.
In a recent Wall Street Journalarticle, he talks about how
(00:27):
those large language models yes,such as chat GPT that you've
been hearing so much about areactually outdoing humans at
making people feel heard andunderstood Intriguing right.
Well, let's set an examplescene.
Picture this You've taken abreak from work for a few years
to start a family, and nowyou're ready or maybe not so
(00:47):
ready to jump back into yourcareer.
You're anxious, you're feelingunmotivated, and you decide to
share your worries with yourfriends.
And your friends respond, andfriend one says I'm sorry to
hear that you're struggling.
I can understand how anxietyand insecurity can make it hard
to take that next step.
You have valuable skills,though, and experience that can
benefit any employer, and youdeserve to feel fulfilled in
(01:10):
your career.
Friend two says oh, I'vestruggled with the same problem
and the best way to tackle it isto jump right in and give it
your best.
Now ask yourself which responsefelt more compassionate and
more attentive.
Of course, chances are youpicked friend one and, of course
not surprisingly because ofthis topic it's actually from a
(01:33):
chatbot.
So how big is this empathy gapbetween humans and AI?
Well, first of all, it's notanecdotal.
There are multiple studieswhere people have rated chatbot
responses as more caring, moreempathetic and more helpful than
those from humans.
For example, a study in JAMAInternal Medicine showed that
(01:54):
patients with medical concernsprefer chatbot replies over a
real doctor's response awhopping 80% of the time.
80% of the time.
And while, as a physicianmyself, my collective physician
ego is probably hurt, since I'veworked a lot with other
physicians, I'm actuallysurprised that it's not more
often.
In another study fromcommunication psychology,
(02:20):
researchers found crisis chatbotresponses were seen as more
compassionate than those fromtrained hotline crisis
responders, and so this raises abig question how on earth are
chatbots beating humans onempathy?
They're not even human and, ofcourse, they can't even feel
emotion.
So why might chatbots seem to bebetter listeners?
Well, the first theory thatresearchers had was that
(02:43):
chatbots have virtuallyunlimited time, so they could
devote themselves fully to eachperson's issue.
Meanwhile, busy physicians orcrisis line volunteers are
stretched thin.
But the research study showedthat time alone isn't the real
reason for AI advantage.
In a 2024 paper from HarvardBusiness School, participants
(03:05):
who were incentivized to providethoughtful, empathetic
responses still couldn't matchChatGPT's level of perceived
compassion, even though thesesubjects spent more time trying.
So if it's not time orincentives, what is it?
According to the research,chatbots simply avoid the common
(03:26):
mistakes we humans make.
When we try to help, we focuson ourselves.
We shift the spotlight bysharing our similar experience,
even if we're just trying torelate.
We jump right to problemsolving.
We rattle off solutions withoutfirst validating how the other
person feels.
Chatbots, by design, don't dothis.
(03:47):
They have no personal storiesto tell, no eagerness to fix
your problem, no ego to protect.
Instead, they take the time toparaphrase what you've said,
showing that they're payingattention.
They validate your feelings.
They ask follow-up questions todig deeper into your experience
.
Basically, they make it allabout you.
(04:10):
What are the pitfalls of ourgood intentions?
Let's be honest when someone wecare about is hurting, our
first instinct is often toeither cheer them up or hand
them advice.
I know many people close to mewho do exactly that.
Of course we mean well, but itcan come off as dismissive.
It might also minimize theother person's struggle or shift
(04:30):
the conversation onto their ownexperiences.
Chatbots, on the other hand,don't need to prove themselves
or share a personal anecdote, oreven skip to a bunch of
solutions.
They effortlessly keep thefocus where it belongs on the
person who needs support.
Zaki's article describes onetechnique that makes a
difference, called looping forunderstanding.
(04:53):
You basically repeat what theperson said in your own words,
then check to see if you'vecaptured it correctly.
Do I have that right?
It shows you're truly listening.
This is a technique that weactually learned in our first
patient communications courseway back in medical school, and
I think Dale Carnegie also usesa similar technique when
(05:16):
teaching people how to speak toothers.
Interestingly, chatbots do thisnaturally, and humans need to
learn it.
So how can we capitalize onempathy in the workplace?
Empathy isn't just a feel-goodtool for your family and friends
.
Research shows that whenmanagers and employers are good
listeners, employees are moreloyal, engaged and productive.
(05:39):
That means these same chatbotskills of paraphrasing,
validating and following up arepowerful at the office too.
But let's be real.
Nobody wants to feel likethey're talking to a robot.
It's about weaving these skillsinto a genuine human
interaction we all want to knowthat we're listened to, but we
also want to sense that thatother person truly cares.
(06:02):
So what are the limits of AIempathy by now, you might wonder
?
Are chatbots set to replacehuman listeners entirely?
Not quite.
There are a couple importantcaveats.
First, repetition and formulaicresponses.
Chatbots can begin to feel abit stale or repetitive over
longer conversations.
A single chat might feelsupportive, but after multiple
(06:24):
interactions you might cravemore nuanced, spontaneous
understanding.
So don't be that Technicalglitches and hallucinations.
Chatbots sometimes respond withmisinformation or stray off
topic Actually a lot like someof the people I know and
emotional depth.
(06:44):
Real people can shareexperiences, emotions and
vulnerability in ways AI cannotreplicate.
Chatbots don't have genuinefeelings, so their empathy,
while helpful, can feel limitedor performative.
In fact, most people stillprefer waiting to talk with an
actual person over an immediateconversation with a bot Think
(07:05):
calling customer service butespecially for emotional matters
.
That's because there'ssomething uniquely beautiful
about human empathy it's comingfrom someone with their own
limitations, someone who mightbe tired or stressed themselves
but chooses to offer comfortanyway, and that shared humanity
(07:25):
is precious.
So what are the key takeawayswe can learn from chatbots?
Well, if there's a centrallesson in all of this?
It's that chatbots aren'tempathic because they possess
some kind of magical emotionalintelligence.
They're empathic because theyavoid the big mistakes we humans
tend to make when we're tryingto help others.
Help others, and if we canlearn to dodge those pitfalls,
(07:48):
focusing more on the otherperson, validating their
experience and asking thoughtfulfollow-ups, then we can bring a
little chatbot magic into ourown human conversations.
It's not about becoming roboticon how we talk to people.
It's about listening first,acknowledging the other person's
feelings and only then decidingtogether on next steps.
(08:09):
So that wraps up today'sconversation on empathy and what
chatbots can teach us aboutbecoming better listeners.
Thank you to Jamil Zaki for hisinsightful article and if you're
interested in learning moreabout his work, you can check
out his latest book Hope forCynics the Surprising Science of
Human Goodness.
And thank you for joining metoday.
I hope this episode inspiresyou to try out a few of these
(08:30):
chatbot-inspired listeningskills in your next conversation
.
And remember great listeningisn't just about the words we
say.
It's about showing others thatwe truly care.
I'm Sam Rhee and you've beenlistening to Botox and Burpees,
and if you enjoyed this episode,please subscribe and share with
a friend who could benefit frombetter listening skills.
Take care, stay curious andkeep listening.
(08:51):
Thank you.
Hi, welcome to Botox and Burpees.
I'm Sam Rhee, and today'sepisode is about the surprising
empathy skills of AI chatbotsand what we as human beings can
learn from chatbots to becomebetter listeners.
I read an article written byJamil Zaki, a psychology
professor at Stanford University.
In a recent Wall Street Journalarticle, he talks about how
(00:27):
those large language models yes,such as chat GPT that you've
been hearing so much about areactually outdoing humans at
making people feel heard andunderstood Intriguing right.
Well, let's set an examplescene.
Picture this You've taken abreak from work for a few years
to start a family, and nowyou're ready or maybe not so
(00:47):
ready to jump back into yourcareer.
You're anxious, you're feelingunmotivated, and you decide to
share your worries with yourfriends.
And your friends respond, andfriend one says I'm sorry to
hear that you're struggling.
I can understand how anxietyand insecurity can make it hard
to take that next step.
You have valuable skills,though, and experience that can
benefit any employer, and youdeserve to feel fulfilled in
(01:10):
your career.
Friend two says oh, I'vestruggled with the same problem
and the best way to tackle it isto jump right in and give it
your best.
Now ask yourself which responsefelt more compassionate and
more attentive.
Of course, chances are youpicked friend one and, of course
not surprisingly because ofthis topic it's actually from a
(01:33):
chatbot.
So how big is this empathy gapbetween humans and AI?
Well, first of all, it's notanecdotal.
There are multiple studieswhere people have rated chatbot
responses as more caring, moreempathetic and more helpful than
those from humans.
For example, a study in JAMAInternal Medicine showed that
(01:54):
patients with medical concernsprefer chatbot replies over a
real doctor's response awhopping 80% of the time.
80% of the time.
And while, as a physicianmyself, my collective physician
ego is probably hurt, since I'veworked a lot with other
physicians, I'm actuallysurprised that it's not more
often.
In another study fromcommunication psychology,
(02:20):
researchers found crisis chatbotresponses were seen as more
compassionate than those fromtrained hotline crisis
responders, and so this raises abig question how on earth are
chatbots beating humans onempathy?
They're not even human and, ofcourse, they can't even feel
emotion.
So why might chatbots seem to bebetter listeners?
Well, the first theory thatresearchers had was that
(02:43):
chatbots have virtuallyunlimited time, so they could
devote themselves fully to eachperson's issue.
Meanwhile, busy physicians orcrisis line volunteers are
stretched thin.
But the research study showedthat time alone isn't the real
reason for AI advantage.
In a 2024 paper from HarvardBusiness School, participants
(03:05):
who were incentivized to providethoughtful, empathetic
responses still couldn't matchChatGPT's level of perceived
compassion, even though thesesubjects spent more time trying.
So if it's not time orincentives, what is it?
According to the research,chatbots simply avoid the common
(03:26):
mistakes we humans make.
When we try to help, we focuson ourselves.
We shift the spotlight bysharing our similar experience,
even if we're just trying torelate.
We jump right to problemsolving.
We rattle off solutions withoutfirst validating how the other
person feels.
Chatbots, by design, don't dothis.
(03:47):
They have no personal storiesto tell, no eagerness to fix
your problem, no ego to protect.
Instead, they take the time toparaphrase what you've said,
showing that they're payingattention.
They validate your feelings.
They ask follow-up questions todig deeper into your experience
.
Basically, they make it allabout you.
(04:10):
What are the pitfalls of ourgood intentions?
Let's be honest when someone wecare about is hurting, our
first instinct is often toeither cheer them up or hand
them advice.
I know many people close to mewho do exactly that.
Of course we mean well, but itcan come off as dismissive.
It might also minimize theother person's struggle or shift
(04:30):
the conversation onto their ownexperiences.
Chatbots, on the other hand,don't need to prove themselves
or share a personal anecdote, oreven skip to a bunch of
solutions.
They effortlessly keep thefocus where it belongs on the
person who needs support.
Zaki's article describes onetechnique that makes a
difference, called looping forunderstanding.
(04:53):
You basically repeat what theperson said in your own words,
then check to see if you'vecaptured it correctly.
Do I have that right?
It shows you're truly listening.
This is a technique that weactually learned in our first
patient communications courseway back in medical school, and
I think Dale Carnegie also usesa similar technique when
(05:16):
teaching people how to speak toothers.
Interestingly, chatbots do thisnaturally, and humans need to
learn it.
So how can we capitalize onempathy in the workplace?
Empathy isn't just a feel-goodtool for your family and friends
.
Research shows that whenmanagers and employers are good
listeners, employees are moreloyal, engaged and productive.
(05:39):
That means these same chatbotskills of paraphrasing,
validating and following up arepowerful at the office too.
But let's be real.
Nobody wants to feel likethey're talking to a robot.
It's about weaving these skillsinto a genuine human
interaction we all want to knowthat we're listened to, but we
also want to sense that thatother person truly cares.
(06:02):
So what are the limits of AIempathy by now, you might wonder
?
Are chatbots set to replacehuman listeners entirely?
Not quite.
There are a couple importantcaveats.
First, repetition and formulaicresponses.
Chatbots can begin to feel abit stale or repetitive over
longer conversations.
A single chat might feelsupportive, but after multiple
(06:24):
interactions you might cravemore nuanced, spontaneous
understanding.
So don't be that Technicalglitches and hallucinations.
Chatbots sometimes respond withmisinformation or stray off
topic Actually a lot like someof the people I know and
emotional depth.
(06:44):
Real people can shareexperiences, emotions and
vulnerability in ways AI cannotreplicate.
Chatbots don't have genuinefeelings, so their empathy,
while helpful, can feel limitedor performative.
In fact, most people stillprefer waiting to talk with an
actual person over an immediateconversation with a bot Think
(07:05):
calling customer service butespecially for emotional matters
.
That's because there'ssomething uniquely beautiful
about human empathy it's comingfrom someone with their own
limitations, someone who mightbe tired or stressed themselves
but chooses to offer comfortanyway, and that shared humanity
(07:25):
is precious.
So what are the key takeawayswe can learn from chatbots?
Well, if there's a centrallesson in all of this?
It's that chatbots aren'tempathic because they possess
some kind of magical emotionalintelligence.
They're empathic because theyavoid the big mistakes we humans
tend to make when we're tryingto help others.
Help others, and if we canlearn to dodge those pitfalls,
(07:48):
focusing more on the otherperson, validating their
experience and asking thoughtfulfollow-ups, then we can bring a
little chatbot magic into ourown human conversations.
It's not about becoming roboticon how we talk to people.
It's about listening first,acknowledging the other person's
feelings and only then decidingtogether on next steps.
(08:09):
So that wraps up today'sconversation on empathy and what
chatbots can teach us aboutbecoming better listeners.
Thank you to Jamil Zaki for hisinsightful article and if you're
interested in learning moreabout his work, you can check
out his latest book Hope forCynics the Surprising Science of
Human Goodness.
And thank you for joining metoday.
I hope this episode inspiresyou to try out a few of these
(08:30):
chatbot-inspired listeningskills in your next conversation
.
And remember great listeningisn't just about the words we
say.
It's about showing others thatwe truly care.
I'm Sam Rhee and you've beenlistening to Botox and Burpees,
and if you enjoyed this episode,please subscribe and share with
a friend who could benefit frombetter listening skills.
Take care, stay curious andkeep listening.
(08:51):
Thank you.
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