" Bout that Life Podcast" AAU Basketball and Life talk Episode 59 The Journey of Cameron Niles

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
From the yba phoenix fitness 24-7 basketball facility in rockland california
it's about that life podcast with your host coach c collins and coach mj.
Music.
Hey how you doing this coach c collins about that life podcast i am here to

(00:23):
talk more basketball your ball and life and everything in between.
Obviously, main emphasis on AAU.
Again, if you are listening from the audio side, much appreciated because I
know the audio side is much bigger than my YouTube side.
Last time I checked, I'm at 76,000 downloads and listens.
So please, much appreciated. And I see it literally all over the country.

(00:45):
So thank you guys for checking it out. Funny enough, I was in Nike clearance
store today and a couple of people came up to me like, You're like,
man, I just was listening to your podcast with Jordan Ford and stuff like that.
So, you know, much appreciated. Please keep doing that. Let me know I'm doing something right.
Hopefully this information is helping you kids, you parents and everybody in
this basketball community of ours.

(01:06):
If you feel so inclined and you're listening, like I said, on the audio side, go ahead and follow.
Stay stay active on what I'm putting out there. Again, not doing this to get
rich, not doing this to get famous, doing this to give you guys information,
trying to give you free game.
So move getting right into it
i have a guest of mine i've coached this

(01:27):
young man briefly and and watched his progression from
a young kid with goggles and curly hair no jump shot to become a pretty good
athlete very good athlete let me not undersell this man uh the kid uh kids out
here killing he was he was at you were at del campo right high school just so i got that correct and,

(01:48):
and ended up giving a scholarship to Davis and then went on his journey.
We're gonna talk a lot about that.
So I think his very similar to Zach Chappelle's for those who've been on that episode.
Get to see the unique journey some of these young men are going and walking
right now because that's the point.
I want to give you guys these tips, this information, because maybe it will help you.

(02:11):
Maybe you're a young guy listening to this. Maybe you're a parent listening
to this, and you're trying to figure out the next and best steps to help your son or daughter.
So hopefully his journey can help give you guys some insight.
But without further ado, let me introduce Cameron Niles.
How are you doing, man? Doing great. Glad you made it. Appreciate you. Thank you for the intro.

(02:37):
Thank you for having me. No problem, man.
So, like we talked about before the show, you know, this is mainly emphasizing
AAU basketball and obviously talk a little bit of life, stuff like that.
But mainly, obviously the show, I just want you to share your journey and how
it worked and, you know, let people understand kind of the ups and downs,

(02:57):
the pros and cons. And they got to, you know, use their discernment and decide
those things for themselves.
But before we get way into the meat of all that, why don't you tell the audience about yourself,
you know, your your basketball career, you know, from, you know,
high school and collegiately and your AAU teams, your, you know,
the AAU teams that you played for. And, you know, I have to go through every single one.

(03:19):
But, you know, just just the ones that obviously the main ones that had an impact
for you and stuff like that.
But, yeah, let the let the audience know who you are. Yeah. So hi, everyone.
My name is Cam Niles, originally from Tacoma, Washington.
Lived in Sacramento for about 11, 12 years. You know, just like you said,
I went to Del Campo. Shout out Coach Nobis.

(03:41):
Enjoyed my time there, even though I went to high school, unfortunately,
during the COVID. Yeah, yeah, you got hit with that, yeah.
You know, it was kind of cut short, but, you know, still enjoyed it.
The AU teams I played for, one of them being Capital Ballers,
that was kind of the team that started me out.
I just was kind of hooping. That's when I decided to take hoop seriously.
Shout out to Aaron. Yeah, shout out to Coach Lava and Coach Aaron.

(04:03):
And then I got introduced to Team Arsenal. Shout out Coach KP and Coach Hump.
And I played for his team, and, you know, that team was amazing.
Yeah, no doubt. Just unbelievable Division I talent.
We had amazing teams and that was kind of what got my exposure out and really
started to ignite my name.
You know, like I said, COVID had happened, so it kind of died down a little

(04:25):
bit, you know, but I was still able to end up with three Division I offers,
them being UC Davis, Sac State, and UC Riverside.
And, you know, I decided to commit to UC Davis because they offered me first
and I, you know, had my visits, you know, knew the guys and kind of knew what
I was going into, you know, great academics. I was like, you know, this is, this is the fit.

(04:46):
This is where I'm going to go. If you want to be a vet, you can for sure go
to Davis cause they got a great veterinary department.
So, you know, I just was like, this is the best overall fit for me.
So, you know, I committed there, I was like, I'm going to go to Davis.
You know, I really thought I was going to play coming into my freshman year
and had high expectations.
You know, I was kind of dealing with knee pain when I had got there.

(05:07):
You know, anyone that is athletic knows of jumper knee.
So, yeah, I was kind of dealing with that a little bit, but it wasn't necessarily bothering me too much.
So I had got there, you know, just was in the trainer every day trying to, you know, get it right.
You know, make sure that I was healthy for season. season and then
just a little bit before we kicked off you know
coach coach les had told me he thought it was best

(05:29):
that i i would red shirt and at first i you know i was kind of iffy because
i really i really did want to play yeah i was that was my expectation of course
but you know i ended up doing it just because you know i was like it's a free
year i did division one you know i could take full advantage of it you know
i'm getting extra work in you know i'm still a full-time student.
And, you know, I just felt like it was a good opportunity,

(05:51):
you know, so I took, I went that route, you know, I redshirted and,
you know, I felt like I was at first I was struggling because,
you know, like I was explaining that the adaptation part, you know,
I'm 18 going into this big university,
you know, they got all these expectations and it's just a lot of pressure,
you know, and like I said, it's a lot to adapt to.

(06:12):
So at first I definitely say I really struggled, But, you know,
as the season went on, I really...
Started to find, you know, kind of my rhythm groove, you know,
getting all those workouts in and just everything.
But, you know, again, the knee issue was bothering me and I didn't know the
extent of the injury at the time towards the end of the year until I got an MRI.

(06:35):
But, you know, I went through the year, did my best I could.
And then towards the end of the year, Coach Les had kind of,
you know, brought me into his office and we just had a real conversation and
he felt like that I wasn't ready and he felt that I was, I guess,
necessarily shying away from the work.
And, you know, it was, it was, it was kind of a humbling moment in a sense,

(06:58):
because that was the last thing I thought,
you know, he was going to be talking about because, you know,
I was putting in the work and I was doing all this and that and doing everything
he asked of me and everything.
And, you know, it was just kind of shocker to me that he, he would say those
things and the whole time, you know, I got a partially torn meniscus.
I got a partially torn tendon that I had no idea about.

(07:22):
Doing this Division I work, high level, high duty, you know what I'm saying?
I'm working out twice a day. What a torn knee.
You know, exactly. So I'm just, it was a lot, you know.
That transition from me going to UC Davis, then transferring to Yuba Community
College, it was a lot on my mental.
You know, I just was, for one, frustrated. you know

(07:43):
i just i was like man like he took
me in you know he had all this hope and everything and
i felt like i put in the work and he just felt like
i was like you got brushed to the side or something yeah literally and so it
kind of it definitely put a chip on my shoulder and that's how i kind of went
in towards going into yuba you know i played my first year there played a lot

(08:05):
you know i'd yeah we we had a really good team absolutely my first year but we ended up getting
bounced out in the second round okay so that was kind
of a i don't know
it was definitely not how we were expecting felt felt
like incomplete you know right definitely definitely so it sucked for the sophomores
because they were going you know and they thought we were going to have a really

(08:27):
good chance to make it to the elite eight yeah you know and just and and do
something good yeah and so us freshmen you know we had a really talented freshman
group and so us knowing Knowing that us having that salty taste in our mouth,
you know, we knew what our expectations were going into that second year,
you know, and probably the best group of guys I've been around,

(08:47):
you know, going into that second year, including the freshmen, just everyone,
you know, we had our ups and downs, you know, throughout the year. Yeah, that's normal.
It was honestly, the second year was so similar to the first year,
like in terms of our losses, it was kind of how the season went.
You know, we lost to literally the same team in the same tournament,
in the same game by three points.

(09:10):
It was, it was crazy. It just, just a lot of similarities, but you know,
coming into that playoff run, we knew that, you know, it's time to bite down.
It's time to lock in. This is our last chance, you know? And you guys made it
to the final four, correct? We did.
Yeah, we did So we ended up getting into that top four seed and when you get
that top four you get that first round by yeah We we ended up playing two games

(09:33):
before going to that Ali a tournament and then we went to the Ali a tournament.
Played the team that we lost to in the in the championship.
Yeah, and I ended up beating them Really good game and that was kind of our
like best one of the year Yeah, you know, we we had lost to them twice,
you know, three points and we yes, we wanted that win
so it was really nice and then we ended up playing

(09:55):
west valley which they were undefeated and they ended up
winning the whole one in the whole thing okay so we played
we played them in the final four it honestly was a
defensive game okay both teams shot terrible yeah that happens man we we only
ended up losing by like six or seven i believe and it was a really good game
and you know just it was a tough one to lose because right we knew that we were

(10:18):
just honestly a couple possessions away from winning that game. Yeah, exactly.
You know, like I said, that's probably one of the best groups I've been a part
of. Okay. Shout out to the Northfield boys.
And so upsetting that we didn't win it all because we really felt like we were going to win it all.
We definitely had the talent to, but we ended up falling short.
And so now that my time at UBIT is done, I have now committed to Carroll College, to NAIA out in Montana.

(10:45):
Really excited, really stoked for this opportunity.
Congratulations. I know I said that earlier, but again, congratulations.
I appreciate that because it's been a journey.
Yeah, it definitely has felt like I've been in college for a lot longer than
what it feels like, you know, but I am very,
very thankful for the opportunities and all the experiences and people I've

(11:08):
met along the way, you know, and like I was saying,
I was really angry at first when I had transferred from Davis because,
you know, I'm not the kind of guy that wants to stay.
Out of school for one year and then bounce. I was, you know, committed there.
I wanted to be there all four years and really see what I could do at that kind of level.

(11:28):
So I was really angry and, you know, didn't know how to really process it at
first, but now looking back on it is probably one of the best things to have happened to me.
Um, just, you know, I've learned so much from it and, you know,
I'm just glad that I went through that experience.
So, uh, sound like you, uh, Becoming a man. For sure.
Because you're still a young kid. Trust me, I'm old. You're young.

(11:51):
Yeah, but no, that's great stuff. Yeah.
Well, I will. And we'll delve into more of those nuances. You know,
I got I got the questions.
Trust me, I type out my script and I'll memorize it. This is I've done this a long time.
So the first question I generally always ask every every person who's been on

(12:11):
the show who's played a you, which generally pretty much everyone has at this point.
Now that you're removed from it and you're kind of
looking from the outside in you know you can look kind of back at your own aau
journey and kind of where it currently sits today i mean you got social media
just like the rest of us you see the videos you see all the kind of the weird

(12:32):
good bad stuff that's going on with au basketball and obviously you experience some of it yourself,
and and like you said uh being with capital ballers and and kp and arsenal and
oh yeah and And he did briefly play for YBA, too, where Coach Adam.
So he did that, too. He did both. So if I had to throw us in there, I'm biased.
But, you know, now being out of it for several years, you know,

(12:58):
what are kind of some of the pros, some of the cons?
You know, what is your overall assessment of AAU as a whole?
Whether you want, like I said, whether you want to speak on your time in it
or, you know, just kind of as an outsider now. What would you say?
I definitely think it's become more of a show for the most part,
you know, just trying to get the clicks or whatnot.

(13:19):
But, you know, teams like Team Arsenal, they're always doing good work.
I just always salute KP because he's always finding dogs that,
you know, just they want to play the game the right way and they want to.
And he puts him in the tournaments needed, necessary.
And, you know, he finds these guys great places, you know, to get offers and commit.

(13:41):
And I like KP. A lot of people don't like his ass because he is kind of a –
and it's funny, I talk shit to him because, you know, we talk one-on-one.
That's like, you know, even though we're competitors business-wise,
I got a lot of respect for him as a man and a father and one brother to another
trying to make some shit of himself.
But, no, I tell him, like, bro, I'll be like, why are you always an asshole?

(14:01):
Why you always got to come on like an asshole?
But a lot of people don't realize he actually is a really good dude.
And he cares about you guys a lot.
Absolutely. He is one of the greatest coaches I've ever met.
So, like I said, I salute him. And I'm not too sure.
You know, obviously, I know your program. I know you're doing the same thing.
You know, I'm trying to get guys the best opportunities.
Do what I can, man. I still salute that because I feel like it's more rare now.

(14:23):
You know what I'm saying? I don't know what the competitive side of,
you know, going to those tournaments, those big tournaments still are.
But, you know, I think...
That side of AAU is still good, you know, because it's just,
if a coach is willing to give his kids opportunities and, you know,
obviously wanting to play basketball the right way, I think it's a good aspect,

(14:44):
but I think the bad aspects are obviously people just trying to,
you know, I see all these people just creating these super teams or whatnot
and just going out to these random AAU tournaments and, you know,
it's cool and all, like, you know.
Trophy chasing, trying to get medals and wins and t-shirts and yeah,
yeah, yeah. It's cool and stuff like that.
But in terms of, you know, if you're a young kid trying to get an opportunity

(15:05):
and fit in somewhere, you know, I would suggest finding a coach who's really
willing to go those steps, you know. Yeah.
So I hope it stays in a good area.
You know, I definitely, especially with all this college madness.
Yeah. I hope that young kids still get a chance to, you know,
expose themselves and show to these college coaches that they're,

(15:28):
you know, ready for that level. Right.
You know, because I feel like it's definitely a lot harder than it than it ever was.
Absolutely. You know, I thought it was hard. And even, you know,
after COVID had happened, it was it was really hard.
So no doubt. I really, you know, I really want kids, young kids because young kids are the future.
Yeah. I'm saying. And so the more we we keep that standard of basketball intact,

(15:51):
I think, you know, it'll it'll always stay in shape.
So, yeah, I mean, the biggest thing. And again, like you said,
you're not kind of in it. So just giving you kind of a brief overview on my
viewpoint of it is a use kind of become it's become big in the sense of volume, right?
Got a bunch of kids, a bunch of coaches, say that loosely, and a bunch of programs,

(16:14):
which isn't necessarily a bad thing because I love seeing basketball grow in and in itself.
I mean, the Olympics, if anything, was a testament to that this year.
You know, you think about they always kept saying this number,
but, you know, they said how many NBA players were in the 92 Olympics to how
many NBA players were in this Olympics. It was like, you know,

(16:36):
I think they said when Jordan and them did in 92 was like six.
And then this one is like almost 70.
Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, so that clearly shows the growth that basketball
has had in the world, which I love to see.
And you can see it in the AU sphere as well.
But now you do have a lot of kids with a lot of options.

(16:57):
Let's say like, so in case, well, people know I'm going to put your links to
your social media stuff in the journey. But just if you're listening or if you're
checking out on YouTube, let me give you guys a quick synopsis on what his game
style was like when he was young.
Cam was a very athletic kid, natural slasher, always was super athletic.

(17:17):
You and Aiden, you and Aiden were both just, you know, long,
lanky, athletic kids that could just run and jump and do it and get it done.
And shout out to Aiden. I literally was texting him the other day.
You know, he's in the military. Yeah, he's in the military. I still tell him,
I'm like, you're the greatest athlete that never played college.
Like, that kid should have played college. But you know what?

(17:40):
It's okay. He was going to, at least Corwin was telling me, he wanted to go to U of M. Yeah.
And I think that was after my freshman year, so I was kind of excited.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That would have been, man. Yeah, because I would have been.
But you know what? A, getting your life together in the military is definitely
not a bad outlook. It was a great thing. Exactly.
But no, like his game was, you know, like you said, that's he was very athletic,

(18:02):
couldn't shoot at first and developed that over the years.
And really, I watched your game evolve from afar, you know, from,
you know, just coaching against you.
And obviously, like as I when I got to know Aaron and Lava and working with them and all that stuff.
So watching your game evolve was a lot of fun. Well, you know,

(18:25):
guys like him, you know, the natural athletes, that's great,
you know, that might get you noticed, right?
But then I'm sure as you learn, the skill portion has to, you know,
catch up, right? Absolutely, yeah. Yeah.
Noticed that, you know, at UC Davis. But, you know, I was, I was putting in

(18:46):
the work and doing workouts,
but yeah, I would, I realized how, how big of an aspect shooting and just playmaking
and being able to read and even just defending,
you know, people, people take that aspect out of the game at all times,
but being able to defend your position or even defend multiple positions is very important.
And, and it really increases your value once you understand that aspect and you're able

(19:08):
to grasp that because when you get to that level everyone can
do what you do right like you said better yeah you know so you got
to learn what you can provide to the game or even to
the team that isn't already there so and then so well like to land on my point
everything is what i'm saying is like with with the growth of basketball right
now it's kind of or with au basketball right now it's gotten so big to where

(19:31):
even some levels feel more like competitive wreck as opposed to where where, you know,
I mean, I think, you know, pre-COVID, a lot of people might not know this or,
you know, if you weren't from this area, you don't know this.
You know, remember Hardwood Palace, you used to get three games a weekend.
You know, now they only do two.
And, you know, and quite honestly, you know, a lot of those weekends,

(19:54):
you would get some pretty good competitive games.
Absolutely. You know, I'll be honest with you now, that's not what it is anymore.
Because it's all just about, you know, know who's going to provide the biggest
highlights, stuff like that.
Like I remember some of these games I had here, they were just super competitive,
you know, just really, really good basketball.
Absolutely. That's, that's why I said that's where basketball is really good at.

(20:15):
And I wish we would kind of stray away from the highlight side of basketball
and just trying to watch it for the offensive highlights or stuff like that,
because the game is, you know, in a sense, really beautiful when you break down
the game and it's not just the offense,
you know, it's how you collectively perform as a team. You know what I'm saying?
And, you know, we were going to talk about Team USA, but I wanted to bring up

(20:38):
Devin Booker because he just was, a lot of people didn't really notice him and
they were kind of giving him like.
Slander in a sense and he was honestly one of the best players
for team usa he's guarding you know their point guards
he's playing competitive defense you know he's not
letting his guy blow past him you know he's he's taking these clay
thompson threes just catching shoot you're not doing too much he's not

(21:00):
trying to dribble and you're trying to get his you know he did what was necessary
for the team exactly and so i think that was he was one of the main reasons
why they you know went on to win it all absolutely obviously you had curry on
bananas yeah i made yeah you know curry is just that's a whole nother topic
of a man the things that kid can do man,
like no no but no real talk like yeah that's that's

(21:22):
what it's all about right that's kind of understanding the premise of having
to adopt a role and things like that but that's that's the unfortunate side
i say what's happening with au the size the size of it the volume of it has
gotten way bigger from even when you played but the problem is it's losing its competitive edge and.

(21:42):
A byproduct of it is, too, kids are somewhat harder to retain.
And so, of course, because like for you, for instance, you were with,
you know, Aaron and Lava for a long time.
You know what I mean? And that's also another unique sighting.
And for you guys, you don't know because we're talking like you guys know.
So for the audience, these are women. These are women coaches.

(22:04):
Just so you guys understand, which is rare in a men's basketball on top of that.
And don't don't get it twisted. that these ladies were tough as nails and
were getting your shit so don't listen to
trust me don't take it lightly because they were women but they
really i know they really cared about you and invested in you and wanted what
was best for you but yeah you do have a lot of kids well you you know me man

(22:27):
and the way i've come i'm the same you know i'm still that old school you know
i'm gonna i'm gonna tell you about yourself you know i'm a i'm a mother fuck
you a little bit right guys if
you're older and it's ain't when you're a little kid, no, but you know, when you're 17,
18, yeah, I'm going to tell you about yourself a little bit,
but I'm always going to do it out of love.
I'm going to do it out of respect. I'm going to do it because I want what's best for you.

(22:48):
But nowadays you got kids that are like, Oh, I don't like, Oh,
you make, you're telling me I have to work hard. No, I'm gonna go play over here now.
You know what I mean? And then they hear the same thing over there.
I'm gonna go play over there and I'm gonna go play.
You know what I mean? Then you have these kids that have played for like 10 different
teams and that's just unheard of
you know what i mean you always had kids who bounced around those

(23:09):
kids always existed but now it's just it seems like there's becoming more and
more of that you know it's way more common than it was yeah so it sucks yeah
since you know i wish i don't know where it came from or whatnot but you know
i i think in me personally you know i'm obviously young but you know i just i want to be.
Grounded where i'm at you know what i'm saying because it tells

(23:32):
a lot of you as a character and you know
i feel like you're able to build these relationships and
build these bonds you know that you know you can never get back right jump around
from team to team it just is like ah he's on another team you know like and
it's just i don't know i just i wish it wasn't the way it was i think that also
unfortunately starts to become your reputation you know what i mean right and And then I know,

(23:55):
because I talk to college coaches all the time, Brandon Barnes being one of
the one-on-ones, we talk a lot of one-on-one stuff all the time.
But, you know, they'll say publicly, like, oh, you know, we don't care.
You know, if a kid's bouncing from here to here to here. But truth be told behind us that they do care.
They notice your habits. They're like, you know what I mean? Yeah.

(24:16):
They'll say, again, like I said, publicly, and this is just me giving you all
free games just so you understand, like, yes, college coaches will say publicly,
like, oh, no, you can play for team. Why not?
And this team and this team and this team, we don't care, but in the back,
but the truth be told when they're having those meetings with each other,
trust me, they're, they're, they're questioning those things about you.
Cause I mean, at the end of the day, they're, they're trying to offer you a scholarship.

(24:37):
That's worth hundreds and thousands of dollars for them to be like,
ah, if he's going to come here for a year, why even offer? Exactly.
Like it's showing your character and that to them, that's what they take it as.
Okay. You're showing me your character and then you circle it back.
And I this is where I hold parents accountable because
I say they learn these habits from the parents because parents
pull their kids to team the team the team they don't typically a

(25:00):
kid a high school kid doesn't just wake up and start doing that yeah they learn
that that's learned behavior that they learn from you know eighth grade seventh
grade sixth grade and so on and so forth so that's kind of where hey you sits
the volume's bigger a lot of kids in it basketball Basketball is a very popular
thing right now, which is great,
but that's what I would say the negative side is.

(25:23):
And I don't know where it's going to go, but that's why I do this show, just to talk about it.
The next thing I wanted to talk to you about was basketball.
Just in general, you being at Davis, like you said, redshirting,
kind of going through the mental hurdles and the physical ones, right?

(25:45):
What kept you going or what helped you to kind of, like you said,
stay focused in, of course, the frustration off of what you did?
Because, you know, let's keep it up. A lot of people will look at what you did
as like you went backwards, right, in their mind.
For sure. because you know we live in this culture it's d1 or bus

(26:06):
right every kid's fucking d1 everyone's d1 me
and ted always say this joke we say everyone's d1 till you go jc
right like everybody has this image in
their mind of and if you're not at a division one everything else it's just
beneath it you know what i'm saying and so it's like you were there unfortunately

(26:28):
like you said it didn't necessarily go the way you wanted it to in your mind
and you had to pick yourself up,
and end up having two really good years at a very good juco if okay saying you
guys want to look up yuba city men's basketball look up their history coach
corn has done great work there for years 20 years ago yeah exactly like and

(26:51):
then to now be at a point where you're out of school,
it's being paid for, you get to finish out your career and get your education
and be a man, shit. You know what I mean?
Like, how'd you mentally stay locked in with all this?
I think for me, for one, the love of the game, this is what I've been doing for so long and it just.

(27:15):
I'm not going to sit here and say I never thought, like, you know,
is basketball really for me? Yeah, of course.
I thought that hundreds of times. And, you know, I just, it was kind of a,
especially from Davis, you know, it just was like, you know,
is this even really for me? You know, I got to the top of the top and they don't even want me.
Right. So I would say the passion of the game, you know, it really kept me in
and kept me sane, I guess.

(27:36):
I was like, you know, I don't even know who I am without basketball.
Right, right, right, right.
Right and just knowing that if i
if i put my mind to it i can really get there you know okay
and uh one one person i really think about is is
jalen wells shout out to jaylen yeah oh yeah definitely shout out to jaylen
yeah you know he literally went he started out at d2 yeah went to d1 and now

(27:57):
he's in the nba and was yeah and you know as well as i do no one thought jalen
was gonna be exactly you know what i mean it's kind of a kid he's like oh he's
averaging these great numbers but yeah is he really that good?
So honestly, it's just, it really is. How bad do you want to,
you know, everyone has that, that passion in something.
And if you really dig deep and you get through the hurdles because,

(28:18):
you know, throughout the journey, like I said, I questioned myself.
Every other person is going to question themselves. Everyone else has that journey.
They have their ups and downs and, you know, some people quit,
some people keep going and, you know, wherever it takes you, wherever it takes you.
But me personally, it's just, you know, I put in so much time i put in so much
dedication and effort and you know to even be blessed to play at a high level

(28:39):
still you know and have an opportunity to you know just like you said have.
Free education you know and that was kind of another big thing is like i can
go get my degree for free yeah i've been on scholarship for all four years now
and that's a hundred percent big blessing and and um i don't take it for granted
at all and it's just like you got to look at it not as,

(29:00):
you know, I was at Davis and I didn't, and I wasn't wanted,
you know, but these other places want me and I can go there.
And it, we were talking about the system.
It's all about the system. If you fit there, you're going to thrive.
And if the coach trusts you and you put in the work, you're going to do good.
You're going to do what you need to.
And, you know, that's what I kept telling myself, you know, even though I didn't

(29:23):
play at Davis and, you know, I had I had two solid years at Yuba.
I'm not going to say you're going to say I had the years that I wanted.
I definitely feel like I could have done more offensively and just other things of that nature.
But, you know, I think every I just think every athlete always has that.
You know what I mean? In the back of our head, we always think like,
damn, I could have did more, could have did more.

(29:45):
So I know what you mean there. But, you know, going into this new college,
I feel like I I have everything.
You know, the coach has the vision for me. You know, I like the way
he views the game and it's I feel like it's gonna be really good for me So I
think just mentally you just got to know that the hurdles are gonna come there's
always gonna be downs But there's gonna be ups as well You gotta enjoy those

(30:06):
and if it's something that you really love you're gonna stick with it and you're
just gonna keep going okay, and it and.
Obviously, your mom's, you know, she's always been in your corner,
right? She's she's always been your mama bear.
Like it was a scene I remember seeing her always at the games,
you know, cheering for you, rooting you on.
I'm sure you had, you know, some conversations with her and,

(30:28):
you know, like your family and friends, like your circle.
Right. But was was that a big help as well?
Yeah, I definitely believe that your support system.
Obviously me, I believe in God, you know, so that was obviously a big help as well.
But shout out to my mom also i love you uh you
know just just having that support system and knowing that you know

(30:48):
having someone tell you that no matter what you do like she's going
to be there for you and that just it really means a lot
you know you might not necessarily notice it in the moment but.
She was always there for me always she's always been a
phone call just a hug just yeah conversation away and
that and that goes a long way because if you have that
and and if you don't have that i would suggest that you just try

(31:08):
to find a group small group or someone just even just
that one person you do you could just sit there and just talk to
and get stuff off your chest because it's really important you
know i necessarily wasn't the
biggest communicator you know growing up yeah i always
kept you were quiet now think about it you're kind of a quiet yeah that's why
i'm shocked at the young man i see in front of
me because you were such a quiet kid but you you speak

(31:31):
well you're you handle yourself well you carry yourself well like
you've definitely grown up kid i'd you know always was
always the quiet person just like you said i always kept
things in and you know i just it was kind of weird because
i was you know if you talked to me i would be having this
conversation yeah i'd always be able to talk to someone so easily but
you know i just i wouldn't initiate that and like i said i'd going through that

(31:54):
davis time it really taught me a lot you know yeah especially the mental hurdles
you know i having doubt in myself and just really really rethinking everything
and being able to go through that and still be able to be where I'm at today is a blessing.
And, you know, also I got to thank God, you know, he blessed me with so much
and just all this wisdom I have now being a young age.

(32:16):
So just, just definitely bless. Well, let's talk about, I wanted you to talk
about the workouts, right?
Like D1 workouts, right? I think, and you know, you can go on countless podcasts,
but we, we, we all talk about the college workouts, you know,
don't matter the level. Let's just even take away D1.
Let's just say college, right? Like JUCO, NAI, D3, D2, D1, you gonna work.

(32:39):
Once you get there, you are gonna fucking work, you know, two to six hours a
day, five days, six days a week. I mean, it's coming, right?
Maybe I want you to speak on if you can, you know, like, cause again,
I have a lot of kids that listen to this show, a lot of aspiring athletes,
even parents that didn't necessarily play basketball or sports,

(33:01):
but they know their kid loves it.
So they, and I always try to tell them like, you will really find for one,
you'll probably be in some of the greatest shape of your life when you're in college.
That's a, that's a benefit, but there's a price of admission to get to that point.
And I just kind of wanted you to speak on those workouts, how,
how hard they are, you know, kind of, you know, how you have to be consistent,

(33:25):
you know, rehab your body, listen to your body.
Like you said, you were dealing with knee pain and still had to kind of figure
it out. So if you could speak on that a little bit.
I definitely think at the, the higher levels, it will be a lot more beneficial
because you have those resources, you know, You got the beautiful gyms. Yeah.
You got the programs that you get put on and stuff like that.
So that part definitely does help.

(33:47):
But, you know, I got a taste of the JUCO.
You know, JUCO is a lot harder because you don't have those resources.
And you're going to have to be more disciplined and dedicated because,
you know, you might still be spending that same time.
But, you know, you have lesser time.
So the coach is going to want to emphasize the offense, the defense,

(34:07):
you know, the literal aspects part of the game.
But in terms of getting better that's going to be on you right
so you know juco you got a yuba is
an hour away from here and i was doing every day so you know
there were some times where i had to stay an hour longer or get there
an hour earlier right just so i can get up shots so i
would definitely say that juco is a lot more of a grind but in terms of

(34:27):
the uc davis workouts they they were very intense
when you were in that gym you were working
and if you weren't working you were going gonna get chewed out yeah
so you know how how it worked when i was
a red shirt at davis you know we would have our own workouts
with the coaches just us the red shirts yeah you know
it would be on game days or you know after before practice we also were in the

(34:51):
weight room a lot more so we had like a usually like we didn't travel with the
team yeah so when when they were away we would have workouts with our uh strength
and conditioning coach and kind of just you know you could still they'll put
in the work if you wanted to. Yeah.
But it just, it was a lot more structured and it was a lot easier to just stay in that routine.
And it was, you know, I was, I was ripped. Yeah. That's what I'm saying.

(35:15):
You're going to be in great shape.
It definitely is worth it. And, but,
you know, to the younger kids out there that are going to the JUCO route,
you gotta, you gotta stay disciplined and you gotta actually want to do that for yourself.
Because if you don't, you're going to regret it in the long run.
And you know, if you, if you're putting in that time, because a lot of the JUCO
kids, I will say that they're, they're not doing that because some,

(35:37):
some kids at the JUCO level, they're going to take it as high school.
Yeah. Like the, I call it the 13th grade.
They think it's the 13th. It's like, no, it's, you're a college athlete now.
It's definitely, it's definitely good basketball, but a lot of
of kids will still try to rely on their skill natural talent
to get above but if you're working and
you're in the gym and you stay dedicated it's going to show like

(35:58):
you're you're going to have the year that you know shocks everyone
in a sense but it's it's definitely important to stay locked
in in juco because you know you don't have those resources and
you don't you have lesser opportunities and it's like i said it's
harder to stay in a routine you know it's not it's not going to be the same
thing every day because practice times are different or you
got classes and stuff like that so um and then

(36:19):
two you know when it comes to juco like
just the atmosphere is very similar to you know
like i've had g league players on this you
know like jordan ford is a great example one christian terrell was here just
this week before you came on and you know the g league and and juco to me are
very similar atmospheres meaning everyone wants to get out you know i mean everybody's

(36:41):
hungry to get out so you are ultra competitive you know what i mean like not even
just against the other team but with your own teammates because
you know if the guy next to you isn't as hungry
as you are he he might fuck things up for you and it's like dude you you know
you get to a point like hey man like you either get shit together or get out
this gym you know what i'm saying so it's um it is an interesting jump from

(37:05):
from that you know because like because i was a juco kid so i know i know exactly
what it's like i went to uh sack city okay yeah i went to sack Sac City.
Even though, and during the time I was there, it's fucking a million years ago, but.
Because it was all Los Rios district, I was actually taking some classes at
ARC at the same time while I was going to Sac City.
And, and so, you know, we had practice at 5 AM.

(37:30):
It was five or 6 AM. Yeah. 6 AM. Right.
And I was working UPS at the time. So I would get off
from ups my night shift which was from 11 p.m
to 3 or 4 a.m maybe get an
hour whatever sleep head to the jucos practice from 6 a.m to 8 a.m and then
go to my classes yeah and then go pass the fuck out that's right as i tell people

(37:54):
like when they came out that netflix show i was like oh yeah i know what that's
like i know exactly what that's like like that was my life And this is pre,
you know, social media and all that. At this time, it was MySpace.
So it was different. But that's why I'm like, I tell kids, like, you will have to.

(38:15):
You have to really, really want to play basketball, to love the game,
to, like, my coach said this to me, and I say it as an analogy because it rings so true.
Basketball will never say I love you back. Absolutely. It is a one-sided relationship.
I think you can say that for anything.
Like I said, any passion you're in, you're going to have to put those countless

(38:38):
hours in, and you might not get nothing in return. Yeah.
You know, I think that's even more important for the younger generation.
You know, at times you're not going to get the results that you want.
You know, there's going to be times where you're putting up,
you know, so many shots and stuff like that, but it's not showing in game.
But you honestly just, you got to stick to it because if you keep doing it,
you'll, you'll start building that confidence.

(38:58):
And it's just, it's important to stay locked in. And I like that quote because it's important.
Important let me ask you because this is your generation and
and it's funny because again this is
it's just always kind of surreal when i sit with guys like
you that i watch grow up and become men you know
uh like kai huntsberry when i have kai on the show
it's still crazy to me this is here growing because i see i

(39:21):
see the little eighth grade chubby kid seventh grade chubby kid that
i go you know i as much as i see let's say in front
of you i still see the kid with the goggles and the curly hair just
bouncy all over like you know what i mean yeah but it's
like one wanted to speak on because this is obviously a big impactor
in your guys generation is your social media has grown a lot
you know i mean you're following shit i remember when you announced just i think

(39:45):
yeah the offer from davis i think your fucking following blew up like that and
it was you know and again i i was just like you know i was happy for you i was
just like proud of you and and whatnot.
And it's, um, what do you, what's your outlook when it comes to social media?
I mean, I know you not like a content creator or nothing like that,

(40:07):
but I'm just saying that is your generation. You know, for me, I'll be real.
This is, this is mainly for information to educate.
I use my social media also to promote obviously my business.
YBA is a business. My training's a business. So for me, it's more on the business
aspect, right? Absolutely.
For you, just being a young guy and it's just a part of your world,

(40:30):
you know, what, how do you balance that or have a healthy relationship between
social media and whatnot?
I think when I was younger, I, you know, like I said, when I,
I think what started that was that one crazy dunk I had had.
Yeah, yeah. Ball is life or whatnot.
When I was younger, I definitely was like so into that. I was so wrapped around it. I was like, oh my God.

(40:54):
And I get it. It's hard not to be. I mean, let's be real.
It's a dopamine hit, man. You know what I mean? And I can't lie.
You know, I sometimes get TikTok brain and I'm watching videos.
You know, it's hard to escape it. Obviously, I want to say because I'm older
and I remember life before cell phones is different.
But see, like for you, your life has always been around the Internet.

(41:17):
And you know what I mean? So, no, I 100 percent get it.
You know, I was like I said, I was a young kid, especially during the time no
one in Sacramento was like, I guess, doing that, you know, had the Division one looks offers.
And, you know, like even I was noticing in high school, like all the teachers
were giving me this crazy treatment.

(41:40):
Yeah, I mean, it's like I said, I remember is kind of like just feel like on top of the world.
Yeah so you know i used when i was in that you know i definitely was like so
airheaded with it you know i just was so involved with it so worried about it but,
You know, as I've gotten older, I just realized, you know, it doesn't really
mean anything. Right, right. It's followers, you know.

(42:03):
There's people that'll follow you that don't even like you. You know what I'm saying?
100%. You know, I kind of think it's really important to stay away from that
kind of stuff and kind of bring yourself back to the real world.
Because if you stay into that stuff, man, it'll, I guess, hinder your growth in a sense.
You know, so I don't know. I feel like social media has its good parts.

(42:25):
You know just like you said promoting your business if you're
doing that kind of stuff you know promoting it for the good reasons you know
I feel like nowadays I just promote it you know just to
spread the Word of God yeah I just feel like it's very
important my my part you know I feel like I blessed
me with a certain amount of following and you know I just
want to do my best to give him the glory but you know

(42:45):
I think it's it's important you know to just promote
it for the good reasons right I'm just if you got a
business or if you have a passion like you
said or the gospel and yeah absolutely and finding that balance right
exactly so you know i definitely do my fast from
it you know i i like to uh get away from it and
just realize that that's not real life you know people

(43:06):
get so caught up in it and oh what's this person doing
what's that person right you know people spend so much time watching
other people's lives you know you gotta step back
and realize what you got going on what
you gotta fix and what you gotta to improve and so you
know like i said it has its good parts but definitely i
think it's more bad than good because people are so wrapped and

(43:27):
involved in it and they just think that it matters so much right for some reason
you know and people are so worried about what other people think about them
yeah i used to i used to do that a lot when i was younger i used to care so
much what other people thought it's funny when you look back at yourself and
you're like damn that was me.

(43:48):
It's crazy so i'm really glad i've
gotten out of that but you know just like you said it's kind of
hard because when you grow up in it you're just so accustomed to
it and it's just the norm like social media is the norm yeah
and so just my advice is
just try to once in a while or even you know however often
you can just just step away from it just get out of it

(44:09):
maybe i like being in nature and i like going to lakes hikes stuff
like that and so being in montana i'll definitely be doing yeah
oh yeah absolutely you know so i i
just i would my advice would be just to find something outside
of that world and just try to spend as much time you
know whether that be nature whether it be writing or journaling you know whatever
it is right like you just just get in that you know and there are no distractions

(44:32):
no none of that outside of it and it'll really help a lot because it clears
your mind when you're so gassed and filled up with that social media and nonsense.
It's just, you know. It's everywhere. Exactly.
My last question before we segue into some of the other stuff, what aspirations.
If any, do you have outside of basketball? Like what do you,

(44:53):
you know, when the ball stops bouncing, you know, what, what,
what, what's that cam looking like?
What do you, what are you thinking? You know, you might have a passion for outside of that.
I have a lot of ideas, a couple that have come to mind, one being a clothing brand.
I've always wanted to build my own clothing brand.
And I also major in psychology. And so what I kind of wanted to do with that,

(45:15):
you know, if I'm blessed enough to be able to get to the high ranks of basketball,
if i get to the nba or even if i don't
you know i kind of want to build a little therapy a little small business
for athletes because when i was at davis you know
i just i was really struggling mentally yeah and you know not not to
say that i didn't have help but it didn't necessarily feel like urgent to people
around me and i mean that to like the coaches yeah stuff like that like they

(45:39):
gave me people to reach out to but we were still recovering from covid so like
they wanted to set up zoom appointments and stuff like that and i know we're
outside of covid and stuff like that now,
but I still feel like athletes, you know, you hear all the time how they talk
about how they go through. Sports therapy has a big growing field.
It is a growing industry because, you know, I've talked to a few sports psychologists

(45:59):
myself, you know, just, you know, one-on-one, not that I need it.
I ain't playing no more, but like, no, just getting their insight and how they talk to people.
And some of them have dealt with, you know, NBA players, NFL players,
you know, soccer players you know just all kind of different athletes and it
is an emerging field because i do.

(46:21):
This this is also part of why i do this show and i've mentioned it before.
I want people when they look at the show they hear the show whatever it humanizes
you yeah you know what i mean because a lot of people from the outside looking
in could just see oh he's just another athlete you know typical light-skinned
athlete with tattoos like you know they ain't got
much going on up here you know what i mean i think there's a caricature of

(46:43):
who they think we are as athletes that's
why god rest his soul kobe bryant when he retired and some of the stuff he was
doing outside of basketball like when he won was it the emmy or grammy no emmy
i think before the the the letter he did to basketball that that things like
that just just showing that,

(47:04):
Like I had Deion Taylor on my show. He's a movie director from Sacramento.
He's I Swear you probably seen a few of his movies.
But he played hoop. He played hoop overseas, things like that.
But I enjoy having people like this.
Lance was the comedian. He was on my show. He loves basketball.
He hoops with me and stuff all the time, but obviously he's a comedian, right?

(47:26):
So it's just I try to show insight in the human side of us as athletes.
Obviously, sports and basketball is a huge cornerstone in who we are,
but that's not all we are.
You know what I mean? If that makes sense. For sure. Sure. You know,
when I was at Davis, I kind of had a reality check, you know,

(47:48):
I wasn't necessarily enjoying hoop,
you know, it's kind of the first time that I didn't have that igniter when I
was going to practice every day and I was hooping.
I just was kind of like, Like, yeah, just going through the motions, literally.
So, you know, I, I feel like that was what I really struggled with because I
didn't know who I was outside of that.

(48:08):
You know, I feel like my identity was inside of basketball.
And so I even just recently started to figure out what I like outside of hoop
and what I enjoy and stuff like that.
And it's so important because, you know, like I said, you're not always going
to enjoy basketball and there's going to be times where you don't find that
passion and you don't have that igniter.

(48:29):
And it's just good to step into other things because it's a refresher. Yeah.
Because we get so wrapped and so involved in what we're doing and the grind and stuff like that.
And so, yeah, I struggled a lot at Davis and just even at Yuba,
I feel like I did it as well because it just was just a lot to intake. take.
And like I said, it's not, it's not just a one answer.

(48:51):
You can't just find what you love outside of basketball like that.
You know what I'm saying? You gotta, you gotta did, you gotta,
you gotta be able to experiment and stuff like that.
And so just doing that and just trying new things and just figuring out what
I like, who I am outside of basketball, you know, what I find joy in has really
been a helpful insight because, you know, when I am going through those tough times in basketball,

(49:13):
you know, I can still go through that grind,
but outside of that, I'm not so, you know, wrapped up in it and I can,
you know, find my peace in God,
you know, like reading his Bible or like I said, going to nature and just enjoying
the beauty of nature, you know, and, and, uh, stuff like that.
So I think it's, it's super important to find something outside of basketball
that you really love or not even basketball, just whatever.

(49:35):
Yeah. Whatever you have a passion for. Right. Yeah. So I think it's just important
to, like I said, just kind of. No, that's good.
I, well, well, this just popped into my head too. if you could talk to a athlete
or if you could say, if you could zero in on two or three things.
Every athlete needs, because like I say, athletes and parents listen to the show,

(49:58):
but what are two or three things that you think they will need in order to,
you know, be a high level varsity player to a collegiate player, you know, and beyond?
What would you say are like two or three things they need to have in order to
make, you know, make that happen? For one, I would say discipline.

(50:20):
Discipline is going to be a key factor in doing anything in life,
because if you don't stick the course, you know, you're not going to achieve
your goals or whatever it may be in your area of field.
So I would say discipline and, you know, me personally, you know,
I don't want to be a person to try to, you know, force my belief on me personally.

(50:43):
It's just, I found my relationship and my belief in God because I felt like
it was so important to faith.
That's just all. Like you said, whatever you believe in having faith in something,
right? This world is cruel, man. Yes.
Kicks you down and it leaves you there and it doesn't stop for nobody. body.
So just having that faith in God and knowing that he can give me that peace

(51:06):
outside of this world, it's just truly is a blessing.
So I would say, if you're open to it, put your faith in God,
Jesus Christ, and that's important.
Another thing is, man, it's a tough question. I try, man.
I'm trying to give some insightful questions.
You said discipline, faith. What would you say last thing you

(51:28):
need discipline faith and i guess it's
joy you know i would say try to find the the joy
in basketball or whatever you may are are doing
because if you're not loving what you're doing you shouldn't do
it you know and you know obviously if you get to the high levels you do get
paid well but you know even those big time athletes they don't find joy in it

(51:50):
yeah and it really takes a takes a decline on their mental health you know because
it's just being an athlete, especially at that level, it's a lot.
You gotta intake a lot, there's just so many aspects to every sport,
and so if you're not enjoying it, you're going to be crushed.
And so I just think joy is a big one that is not talked about enough.

(52:13):
Obviously you hear people all the time say, "'Oh, just have fun while you're
out there." And it's just kind of like a thing that's thrown out there,
but you really gotta enjoy it. Like I said.
Just kind of putting it back to the team. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Kind of easier, but you know, I, I kind of compared, you know,
Tyrese Halliburton versus Jason Tatum.

(52:34):
You could tell a big difference. Tyrese was just happy to be there.
Yeah. Even though, even though he knew he wasn't going to get the right, right, right.
Or anything like that. He was still enjoying his time rather than Tatum.
You know, I'm not going to say or say that he shouldn't have been playing or whatnot.
Yeah. Yeah. It's not my place to say, but you could tell he was not happy to be here.
He's on, he's on the bench he's not you know he's clapping or

(52:56):
whatnot but he's not he's just he doesn't want to be there and so
i think when you look at those two things someone who enjoys it right he's not
getting no pt but he's having the time of his life yeah you know what i'm saying
rather than someone who's not getting pt and he just doesn't be amazing it's
all about attitude and perspective exactly right no that's that's a great that's
a great way to look at it i like that i'm gonna

(53:16):
move on into stop oops not
that one wrong button here we go okay there
we go hot takes so speaking of
the olympics because obviously that's something everyone
is happy and rejoicing to talk about team usa men's and women's went out there
did they think one in france 2028 the olympics will be here in la that's gonna

(53:40):
be crazy um maybe i'll shit i might try to get some tickets now i'm I'm gonna
try to get a spot there now,
but yeah, that's gonna be a hell of a show when that happens.
You know what, like you, like we've obviously talked about a lot of good points
on that, but watching the Olympics, you know, seeing Steph, KD, LeBron.

(54:01):
You know, watching, well, I shouldn't say the end of an era because it's not
the end. Those guys still have, they still got fuel in the tank.
You know what I mean? But it's still like, like you said, Tatum,
his time wasn't now, but it will be, you know what I mean? It's like your time's coming.
Just, you know, be patient, right? Be patient, young fella.

(54:22):
But, you know, looking at that basketball, that brand of basketball and for
them to do what they did and just and truth be told that game against France
neither team shot well either they didn't that's a lot of people I think,
Team USA made a lot of threes yeah that was what
really kind of had them in the lead for majority

(54:43):
yeah but I think in the second half they definitely yeah but as I'm saying like
the overall field goal percentages for both teams weren't like the best but
ultimately who cares it's about who can put the ball in more than the other
one and clearly Steph showed he could do that it was this funny meme I was looking
at today they show Steph when he took that uh,
like fadeaway three over the two defenders Yeah, and you had KD and LeBron with

(55:07):
their hands up like it's asking for the ball there like imagine,
looking off KD LeBron why you see.
It's like, you know Even as a
young Hooper it like yourself man when you look at a player like a Steph.
Yeah You know, what do you see? What do you think when you see just that type of ability and whatnot?

(55:30):
You know, for one, I usually am a big Steph hater.
I'm a Kingsman. All right. I get it. Fair enough. I'm never rude for Steph.
I'm usually looking at him like, ah, here, here, come to me.
But, you know, it was really just cool to sit there and just be a fan of basketball
and just watching all these great players play together.

(55:52):
And I honestly think it was what kind of just
what basketball needed in a sense because I
feel like you know there was always you know there was a lot
of talk saying like Team USA is you know declining and stuff like that so I
think it was really cool for them to you know team up and being able to see
them play together and just the impact they had was just really fun to watch

(56:14):
and Steph doing his thing you know I just it was crazy,
when he shot that fadeaway three I'm sitting there like what right,
and he's the only one that can take that shot that you just
like that's that's what he does i think
everyone in a sense you know when he shot it just was like wow
right he's really shooting this yeah and for the fact for

(56:36):
it to go in was even more just i know bro that's just that's just what he does
like well let's talk about the women's side yeah obviously women's basketball
is growing big time yeah that's the janitor's dog don't get here you guys say
your dog in the mic that's the janitor's dog janitor's Coming in to clean the gym.

(56:56):
But women's basketball has grown, obviously, a lot. And you got the introduction
of, obviously, Kaitlyn Clark, Angel Reese, that whole rookie class and whatnot.
You know, me as a basketball purist, I enjoy to see it.
You know, I'm one of the few, I think, people that was watching the WNBA before,
you know, Kaitlyn Clark and all that stuff.

(57:18):
And to be fair, I'm not going to seem like I was watching it religiously,
but there's, you know, certain teams I will watch, like, you know,
and certain players. I'm like, okay, I'm going to check it out.
Just curious if you had any thoughts on kind of seeing the
growth of the women's side and women's basketball and you know
what what you think overall yeah i honestly think it's
it's really good for the game not only for basketball but for women's

(57:38):
as well you know i just i was kind of talking talking to one
of my friends the other day and just talking about this because you know
some people are still on that show like wmba like
yeah they don't got talent or whatnot but if you sit there and watch
like you know i watch kaylin clark and in the march madness and
kind of doing what she was doing these fadeaway step
back threes and stuff like that it just was i was like all right like this

(58:00):
is the new generation yeah so kaylin clark
and and all these other players you know bringing the
excitement to wmb and i think it's really good because you
know i feel like it's long overdue you know yeah i feel
like they should have been respected more you
know people like i don't want to mispronounce her
name but diana one of the goats yeah

(58:23):
absolutely yeah and just you know
she's been doing it for a long time forever and she's still doing it
and then i even feel like sabrina doesn't get enough love
yeah i feel like she was kind of supposed to be what caitlin was yes you know
bringing that excitement to the game but you know i feel like people kind of
underlooked her but uh she got a fire shoe but yeah yeah yeah she does she does

(58:44):
i agree with you you know i i really think it's good for the game because it
just brings a new exciting element to the game. You know, you're not going to see...
Many dunks like you do right of course you know nba or
whatnot but you know it's just if you're if you
love basketball if you love watching good basketball i think you should get
into it and and sit down there and watch a wmb game
because it is competitive yeah it is a lot more competitive now

(59:07):
i would say and it's definitely a lot different i
think their seasons are a lot shorter yeah but you
know it's good it's good basketball i think that what they i think what's
tough and i talked about this a few shows ago i think what's
tough when it comes to women's basketball they
i mean they have quite a few hurdles just being honest but the one
thing i think that's really tough is the placement of their season their season

(59:29):
is in the summer in the summer yeah and that's just hard because people want
to go play you know i mean they don't want to go that people are gone people
are doing vacations absolutely um kids are out so you know i mean it's a bit
but it's But you can't really,
you can't put it like in winter because it's competing with football.
You're not winning against football.
It's just not going to happen. You can't do it in conjunction with the NBA season.

(59:52):
So, you know, and you can't, and springtime is usually baseball time,
you know, so you can't, maybe you can kind of compete with that some,
but that's still America's pastime, right?
So, you know, it is a very tough spot trying to figure out the right placement
for their season. I think if they can figure that that out, the powers that

(01:00:13):
be, if they can come together and figure out a way to slide it maybe a little earlier.
While I say primarily while kids are still in school.
Right. You know, things like that. But again, it's just tough because you can't
slide it too early because like you couldn't do it in March.
Right. Because that's March Madness. It's college time. You know,
you can't you maybe April, you know, it's going to be weird.

(01:00:36):
But I think that's what they struggle with the most is just the placement of
the season Yeah, I think I think they could I think they should maybe just keep
it where it's at, you know I understand it's the summer but people are always
gonna watch sports. Yeah, no doubt. So I think I.
I used to work at Buffalo Wild Wings, and so during the summertime,
there's not really many sports going on.

(01:00:57):
Just like you say, you got summer or you got baseball or whatnot. Yeah, yeah.
I think it's good. I think they're in a good place. Like I said,
all the excitement, bringing around it. People will definitely start paying more attention to it.
I think they should maybe expand it a little bit more.
Well, they did make the Valkyries in the Bay, so that's coming, so that's good. Yeah.

(01:01:18):
So I think that they should keep expanding it, obviously, with the more people
watching it and whatnot.
But I think it's in a good place where it's at because just like you said,
if you move it up, move it down, you know, it's not really going to be able
to compete with these other big sports.
Yeah. I think in the summer is perfect because, you know, obviously people are
just like you said, on vacations out and about or whatnot.
But if you're able to draw that attention, you know, that summer is going to be just for WNBA.

(01:01:42):
People are going to watch that. So I think if they just keep adding the excitement
to the game and just expanding it or whatnot.
I think it'll be in a good place. Yeah, I'm curious to see in the next few years
how it grows and how they market it.
You know, I think, you know, I want to see it thrive.
I want to see it. And, you know, I just got to make this clear,

(01:02:03):
and we all got to understand this.
Will the WNBA be as big as the NBA? Probably not.
Like, just being real, it won't. But can it be sustaining and good enough to
where I think it can become a profitable league? Absolutely.
The tough part is the majority of consumers of all sports is men.

(01:02:25):
Just being real. We consume, and this is all sports.
It don't matter what sports you pick. It could be damn pickleball. It don't matter.
We watch sports more than anybody else. So, so it's, you know,
I think the WNBA has to figure out this, this, this Rubik's cube of how do we get more women in there?
You know, how do we get women to fall in love with the sport?

(01:02:46):
You know what I mean? And once they figure that algorithm out,
I think the sport will do just fine, you know, and it'll make some money and
it makes some damn good money.
I mean, they're already making, you know, a lot more money than what they were. Absolutely.
I had seen videos of like their all-star games. Yes. It's like how poorly the
equipment and treatment, you know, they got compared to that.

(01:03:07):
I mean, obviously it's the NBA, but you know, now they're able to,
I see that they're, they fly like private jets. They're doing a bunch of private
jets, charter jets, all that stuff.
So again, it's going in the right direction. You know, I just think they got
to capitalize, you know, you're holding lightning in a bottle,
you're holding lightning in your hand.
You got to capitalize on it as much as you can.

(01:03:27):
Moving on into outside of the professional side of things, you know, the Transfer Portal.
I wanted to talk to you about that. Obviously, as a college hooper yourself,
you probably got friends who've utilized this.
You're seeing that. And I want to talk NIL as well, Transfer Portal and NIL.

(01:03:47):
What is your overall outlook of that, you know, the potential to be paid?
I mean, quite honestly, even with your following, you know, you could essentially
be approached for NIL, you know, to some degree.
You know, I mean, just what's your what's your overall outlook of all this?
I definitely think it's it's good for the athletes because it's been long overdue

(01:04:09):
in a sense. Yes. They're bringing in.
Trust me, I would take advantage if I could go back in time and be a college
who I damn sure. Sure. You know, you got all these college athletes bringing
in billions of dollars to your,
you know, to your program organization and they're not getting nothing.
You know, I obviously think it, I think it's really good for the college athletes
to be getting paid and be able to, you know, in a sense, make a really good

(01:04:31):
living off of just being a college athlete.
But, you know, earlier when I was talking about, you know, kind of just the
loyalty, you know, it kind of just wipes that out.
I know. So, you know, people are just going to, they want to go where the money's at.
You know, they're not going to care about, you know, if they're going to fit or whatnot.
You know, if a college is throwing you some money, they're going to go.

(01:04:54):
Yeah. So I think it ruins it in a sense because, you know, you're just going
to have guys bouncing around.
It's just going to even make it even more difficult for this younger generation
to get their opportunities, you know, and get their spotlight.
Obviously, just like you said, if you're a five star, you're going to get.
Yeah, you're going to be. You know what I'm saying? Yeah.
But to the three four stars, you know, it's gonna be harder for them either

(01:05:17):
and kids lower than that You know i'm saying they're all probably just gonna
be going juco or something like that so I definitely think it makes it a lot
harder for the younger kids which kind of sucks in a sense, but.
I think it's good and bad, you know, in the sense, you know,
you have your pros. Like I said, athletes are getting paid. They're probably
really happy about that. Of course.
You're just, every year, it's like, I don't even know the number,

(01:05:40):
but I'm pretty sure it's thousands of kids that are just in the transfer portal. Absolutely.
You know, when I was a freshman at Davis, like, it wasn't necessarily as big.
Yeah. But when I entered the transfer portal, like, half of those guys did as well.
Like, on the Davis roster, like, I'm pretty sure, I think it was like eight
guys had transferred that year.
Yeah. Which is crazy. You know what I'm saying? yeah that's half team
that's what i'm saying you know as a college as a

(01:06:03):
college coach you're sitting there thinking like wow like you know
you have my team left half my team left i'm either
gonna have to go get half of those guys back in the transfer portal or you know
search for the college kids or or the high school kids yeah um you know so that's
why i think juco's in a really good spot because you know i agree you can find
really hidden gems at these juco places and i I didn't really realize that until I got there.

(01:06:26):
You know, some people, they thought about JUCO and they're like, ah.
I'm too good for JUCO or whatever. Yeah, I know that mentality. For sure.
So now I think it's kind of getting a bigger spotlight that it deserves because,
you know, there's really good hoopers at the JUCO level.
And it's never really seen. So I definitely think they're getting a lot more
opportunities, which is good.
But, you know, like I said, in terms for the high school kids,

(01:06:48):
it kind of sucks because your opportunities are definitely going to be limited.
But it's even more of a reason to put in that work. Yeah, so no doubt about
that like yeah, no, I agree with everything you said No, I want to speak on
that when it cut loyalty.
Yeah, right Kind of what what's your outlook on that and and mainly speaking?
Okay, so I'm circling back to a you Overall loyalty is dead in a you I mean

(01:07:12):
to a degree I think you saw it when you were playing but and it's really bad
now Like I said these kids these parents,
I mean, it's like they're looking for any reason to leave Yeah,
you got a kid one week and he's going to.
Yeah, it's and it's getting to the degree where coaches and I'm I'm not participating.
And now I do got to say this side of it right to just put it all together.

(01:07:37):
I know I speak from a place of some level of privilege, meaning this.
An au club in rockland i'm an au club with my own facility we're literally sitting
inside of it we're in a way and
it's and you know it's not my facility but our facility like it we have,
50 80 plus teams you know at

(01:07:59):
any given moment in yba so there's always kind of like within
the system i could get nine to
ten really high level kids and coach them up you know and and
I do realize most a programs don't have that just
being real like probably like 95% of
them don't have something like this now granted a lot
of shit you you were here from the beginning I

(01:08:21):
mean you know you walked in you know we were just a little court over
there and just like this is 20 years
later that's what people I got keep trying to make it reiterate
this is this program's been around 20 years you
know what I mean like we didn't just do this like we it
was brick by brick by brick so i do
know i could be like if a

(01:08:42):
kid quits you know like our coach chris we done with you or whatever it's it's
like okay i wish you all the best yeah because i know you can i can there'll
be another kid that's ready to step up you know what i mean but i but i know
that's not the norm for most au programs out there so i feel for the coaches that
are really good dudes, really good coaches that are losing their kids all the

(01:09:04):
time due to, in my opinion, dumb shit because a parent doesn't want their kid accountable.
Because a kid doesn't like that the coach sat them down in a game because they
were having a bad game and it just happened. Sorry, you were having a bad game.
Regardless if you're a fucking starter or the star player, you had a bad game.
We got to sit you down in order to get this win or at least put us in a position

(01:09:27):
because it doesn't guarantee you're going to win, but it puts us in a position
where we might win. You might be the problem that game.
It doesn't mean you're the worst player on the team just because for one game you were bad.
And those parents will take that one game and then dip. You know what I'm saying?
Like, loyalty is just gone, man. And it's obviously an individual thing.

(01:09:47):
It's an objective thing.
But that's why I'm asking for you and your, you know, how do you feel internally
about the concept of loyalty in AAU and basketball? Is it important?
You know, just your overall outlook.
You know like I said to touch on earlier when I
was saying you know I just I'm kind of a guy where I just I

(01:10:08):
want to be grounded you know where I'm at you know I don't want to necessarily
look at a place and be like I'm only going to go here and if it doesn't benefit
me then you know I'm out yeah and I feel like that's what a lot of people have
an outlook in a sense and it's unfortunate you know because just like you said
you know there's good coaches you know that are genuinely
trying to make kids better and you

(01:10:31):
know and it and it may and it might not even be you know the
kid in the sense yeah no a lot of time it's really not
the kid especially on the youth level so parents more i
really think it's it all comes down to ego i feel like you know parents got
a big egos in a sense they feel like their kid is is better than what they think
and they feel like they can go find better yeah and you know if i'm a coach
and i'm looking at that you know go ahead right if you feel like you can go

(01:10:54):
find better by all means go do that but you You know, I just,
like I said, I, I don't know where it came from, you know, where people just
started getting this, you know, I want to get out of here mentality.
It could be just from watching, you know, even just these big,
big leaguers, you know, some of these guys, they just bounce,
bounce, bounce, you know, and it just, it kind of sucks because it kind of does,

(01:11:15):
you know, damage down the sport in terms of the loyalty, you know.
You know, I always, I'm always going to respect a guy like Giannis or Dirk who's
going to spend, you know, multiple countless, you know, Steph,
multiple countless years with an organization.
And there's been times where it was ugly, you know, just, it wasn't pretty at all.
And they were able to still turn that out, you know, win championship or win

(01:11:39):
championships like Steph did, obviously.
And so, man, I don't know. I don't know what my advice would be on loyalty because
obviously, just like you said, it's an individual thing. You can't,
you can't tell someone to be loyal.
You know what I'm saying? That's something that you, you got to learn and just
have an instinct. So it does come from the parents.
You know, I'm thankful that mom always taught me and, you know,

(01:12:01):
grew me up on well manners and always felt like where I was,
I was going to give my all.
So very blessed to have that trait because it's very important.
You know, I feel like, and it gets you respect, you know, that stuff gets talked about.
Just like you said you know if you're if you're a guy that's known to just get
out when it gets ugly no one's gonna really want you you know what i'm saying

(01:12:24):
especially those top top teams and so.
I think it's you got to take every opportunity and try to learn from it as best
as you can even if it's ugly even if it's a losing season you know you know
it's easy to jump ship right exactly and so you reap what you sow so you know
if you're going to sit there and bounce from every team You know,

(01:12:45):
you're not gonna be able to so much because you haven't planted anything.
So yeah, I just I think it's important You know wherever you go try to build
the best bond in relationship No, I'm not gonna say you're gonna say like obviously I was at Davis.
I was only there for one year I don't you know, but that wasn't necessarily my decision.
Right? Right, right. I wanted to say there was not but I.
I mean, you could take you before you had your year at you, but I'm sure you could have.

(01:13:09):
Oh, yeah. If you wanted to, you know, after that first year,
you could have went to ARC or Sac City or Kasuna. You know what I mean?
They would have easily taken you. You know what I'm saying?
But you said, no, I want to stay here. I want to run it back.
Yeah. So I think it's it's important
to just get the most out of every opportunity where you're at for one.
And two, you just you got to build that character.
You know, it's it's so easy to to damage it. And, you know, it's important going

(01:13:34):
on in, in becoming a man because, you know, even if I did jump that ship,
you know, who knows, who knows where I'd be now.
Right. So you just got to stay grounded, you know, just, just know that you're
where you're at for a reason.
And so you got to take advantage of it at full capacity and just,
and just try to get the most out of it.

(01:13:54):
So, and well, well, the biggest thing right now is obviously a shoe circuits
in a, you, I don't know if you've heard or seen, you know, Puma has a circuit
now and a new balance has a circuit now.
So there's a Puma new balance.
There's still the made hoops independence circuit, or they call it,
um, shoot. What's the name of it?
It's not made hoops is the youth side, but they have a high school version of

(01:14:18):
that circuit, which is still independent. And of course you have Under Armour, Adidas, Nike, right?
Shoe circuits are where everybody's trying to get to. Even me,
I ended up signing with Adidas, but I'm on the Adidas Gold.
So like the major circuits have like a, essentially like a JV and a varsity side, right?
You got UA Rise, Under Armour Association, you got Adidas Gold and Adidas 3

(01:14:43):
SSB, and then you have Nike EYBL, and then now there's the EYCL.
So you gotta have like a varsity and jv version of
each major circuit okay and puma i
think has their two i think they have two circuits and i think new
balance has one so because this was just their first year so everybody's fighting
to get that right everybody wants that contract everybody wants the big shoe

(01:15:05):
company contract that you know i'm not paying they're paying me right but obviously
you got to get a certain type of player my goal and i've advocated for i even
think posted on my reel today and I've been advocating for it a lot is I believe
Sacramento has the talent to where we don't need to outsource ourselves.

(01:15:30):
That's why I'm kind of like segwaying from loyalty to loyal,
not just loyalty and a you in the culture, but now loyalty in terms of wanting
to represent your city, you know, like, uh, the unfortunate side of it as Sacramento has.
In this, in which I firmly believe we're a basketball city, this abundance of
talent, it's always getting outsourced.

(01:15:51):
You know, since here, this really high level freshmen intercom,
you know, and his pop's a good dude.
We talk, we talk and debate all the time on our social media,
but I, but I have a lot of respect for him.
He ended up playing with the Nike UYBL team, and then he finished up playing
at the Adidas 3SB with, I think, Dream Vision. I think it was.

(01:16:13):
And at Mark, he played for the UYBL Soldiers. Then he ended up,
the year before that, this is a kid at Rockland High.
He did Jalen Green Elite, and Jalen Green Elite is an affiliate of Lakeshore,
basically. Then he finished out at Lakeshore.
And the list goes on and on. But I'm saying all these Sacramento-based guys,
like I said, Rock Hill, Rockland, right down the street.

(01:16:34):
He leaves and goes basically represent Jalen Green elite, whatever,
which good, good on him. I get it. You get to be at that high stage.
You get the colleges looking at you, all that. But let's say you do really well.
You're, you're helping a Fresno based program.
So basically it's just putting a spotlight on Fresno. Yeah. Meanwhile, this is where you live.

(01:16:57):
And that's the crazy part when it comes to Sacramento outside of PHPS signing with New Balance.
We are the only like city that doesn't really have a major.
We have no Nike EYBL team. We have no Adidas 3SSB team.
We have no Under Armour team. You know what I mean? But everyone outsources our talent. Yeah.

(01:17:18):
So my goal is I will, I want to make like a sack United team.
I want to work with all these organizations and try to get like the best 10
kids and then go out there and just beat the crap out of all these top teams,
you know, but it's, it would take some kids,
some parents that are willing to say no to the other organizations.

(01:17:40):
Organizations you know what i mean and i and i you know this is my like long-winded
spiel but that but i'm just basically asking you do you think sacramento talent
should stay in sacramento.
As much as possible to try to
represent the city you know i think it's all about situation okay obviously

(01:18:00):
i play for a team or something yeah and they're in fairfield i mean i get that's
why i want your perspective yeah so you know i think it's just all about situation
if you feel like you can go to a team out, you know, a little bit out and,
you know, you're going to get the looks that you want and you're going to be able to perform.
I would say do that, of course. But just like you said, I really like that vision.
I just want to say, but if you do start building that and you start building

(01:18:24):
more attention to that, I think obviously kids are going to gravitate towards
it because it's in the area.
It's a lot, you know, you don't have to drive all the way out there to the Bay Area or whatnot.
And, you know, there's just going to be this spotlight on Sacramento and I feel like.
Any young kid should have an aspiration of wanting to show out for your hometown.

(01:18:44):
You know what I'm saying? And put that spotlight on them. Cause it's just like,
you know, that's, that's where the love's at.
Yeah. So, and I mean, that's my personal goal or whatever, you know?
And again, it's not, I try to make it clear.
I don't knock kids for going to the soldiers or going to team Lillards or like
you said, Arsenal and doing your journey to get you on that stage.
I have no issue with that, but man, it's like I said, it's tough.

(01:19:08):
It's bittersweet. let me put it like that because it's like i watch
a kid like yourself grow up in this area playing this
area evolve in this area you know
connect with the people in this area then i'm watching you in an arsenal jersey
you know i mean like that's where i mean it's bittersweet i'm happy for you
but how much to me how much better would it be to see you in like a sacramento

(01:19:31):
teams jersey you know what i'm saying that's where that comes from that's i guess selfish side of me.
We'll see if i could ever make that happen but no i just um
i would like to see sacramento be
more united in the basketball community i think
our culture in sacramento kind of sucks basketball wise
i don't know if you've ever you really experienced it

(01:19:54):
as a player i mean like i said you're a young man now so
maybe you're seeing a little more behind the curtain and what i mean is
like trainers be beefing or au coaches
and directors you beefing like maybe you're starting maybe
now you're seeing because like i said when you're a player you're young you ain't
you know you're not even man you don't need to see that you're a kid be
a kid right but now that you're a young man and you're

(01:20:14):
an adult you kind of like damn wait you don't like him like
why you don't like him you don't like for what you
know what i'm saying do you kind of have you seen some of this type of stuff oh
yeah you know what absolutely i feel like man it's it's
weird in a sense because it's just like now that they
know all these kids are trying to bounce from you know team to
team in a sense it's just like who's got the

(01:20:36):
best to offer and it's just like people are
willing to go out war for these kids you know because you know
i had some encounters with some trainers that you know i guess try to take the
spotlight you know some of these trainers they try to take the spotlight from
the kids yeah and i don't think it's cool because it's just you are helping
that player get better but it's not about you yeah you know so i think let me

(01:21:00):
ask Let me ask you this real quick while it pops in my head.
Have you ever had like someone quote unquote asked to train you just to get
the clip of it? Have you ever experienced that?
No, I don't think so. Because, you know, when I was in high school and stuff,
I just like people knew me, but it just...
We weren't in that, you know, I guess area of where people are trying to get

(01:21:23):
those clicks and stuff like that.
I've just seen a lot of that lately. You know what I mean? Like there'll be
like a kid that's about to sign in, like the 10 different trainers want to work
with this kid all of a sudden and, you know, make that video and I think attach
themselves to that kid and stuff like that.
That's, I was, I was very blessed with trainers.
You know, the people that I trained with, I always, you know,
thank them and just, you know, just real cool, genuine people,

(01:21:44):
You know, like I said back then it was a lot better time, you know for you know
I feel like trainers were about a lot more authentic,
but you know, you still kind of saw it in a sense But I feel like nowadays is
probably a lot more like that.
Yeah It's again.
Well, he top said I don't like his the little documentary.
They just did forgot the name of it I want to watch it though,

(01:22:07):
but he said he said, you know, our our community is
great basketball community in Sacramento is great in my
opinion it's growing like I said all the time you got you still
got some good stable cornerstone coaches and programs
but the culture kind of sucks yeah you know I mean the culture is taking a hit
because I get you know it's it is this like mentality of I got to beat you yeah

(01:22:29):
I got to be better than you I got to talk shit about you you know what I'm saying
and it's just yeah I don't like it that's just as is my outlook on it, I don't like it.
And I do try to keep in mind, like I said before, I do, I'm kind of,
I'm hitting my own island out here.
You know what I mean? Like I'm kind of not exposed to that, but I also do know,

(01:22:52):
you know, I'm on my own island, meaning I have to figure things out and be self-sustaining.
I'm not gonna get the support maybe.
It's the one of some of the hardest things for me is
to be able to like recruit a sacramento kid yeah you know
what i mean because a lot of sacramento kids don't necessarily want to take the drive here
you know they they're just like oh rockland that's

(01:23:13):
too far yeah you know what i'm saying and i'm like it's like
30 minutes but there's you
know and then there's kids and programs that go against
yba for years and years and years and years and years and they built like this
weird resentment of our au program like you know i mean like and i say this
before you call what it is like the majority of the club is predominantly white

(01:23:34):
the majority of the club this is the suburb so you do have some kids that come
from some good homes and privilege okay but.
That's so what you know what i mean like this is california man
we're a melting pot like there's everybody here like you
know so that's those are kind of the
some of the things i i run into you know what i mean and and
i i i hate it i just want man i

(01:23:57):
just like i said it's just a passion of mine i really want to see
a sacramento-based team just
go out there and stick together and you know
make it happen you know i mean i think it's a
really good idea something that you should continue to
strive when i know it's hard you know because especially it's it's not necessarily

(01:24:17):
the kids it's you know usually the parents but it would really be cool to see
something like that you know see something inside of sacramento you know be
built from sacramento and just be able to explore and expand.
So, you know, I like that vision. Keep going with it. I'm going to try, man.
I wanted to ask you if you could speak to parents, right?

(01:24:39):
Again, like I said, you're someone that's, you know, seen the highs of the highs
and bounce back and keep pushing.
What would be your advice to parents for their young athletes,
their, you know, aspiring,
you know, like what are some tips you can give to the parents on how to deal
and how to navigate this basketball journey with their child?

(01:25:02):
You know, I think it's one of the important things, you know,
like I said, the system, you know, it's all about where your kid's going to
be, how he's going to be played, if he's being played to his strengths,
you know, how he's being treated and stuff like that.
And so I think the program obviously is very important in just knowing the coach
and his vision, you know, for the game and what he would have for your kid and stuff like that.

(01:25:26):
And seeing if it's realistic or not, you know, cause I feel like parents,
I feel like when I was in AU, they would try to put their kids in these programs,
these big programs, and they weren't necessarily that good.
You know, they didn't fit it and stuff like that.
And not to say if your kid's, you know, not that good or whatnot,
but just, I feel like if you put them in a system where he can thrive,

(01:25:47):
he will enjoy it a lot better than trying to put him up with the best of the
best and he might not be there yet. Right.
So, you know, like I said, ego definitely plays a part of that, but.
Just maybe humble yourself a little bit. You know what I'm saying?
It could really help your kid get to where he needs to be, he or she.
And it will help them a lot. And like I said, it will help them enjoy the game a lot better.

(01:26:09):
If they run into a coach where they, you know, are not being treated right or,
you know, not being played or whatever the case may be, you know,
it's going to make them lose their passion, I feel like, especially at a young age.
I try to tell parents, and it's so cliche, but it is so true,
you know, just trust the process. Yeah.
Like let, you know, sit back, relax. Obviously you're still an active participant.

(01:26:32):
You know, I always try to tell parents, learn the game. Don't just watch it, learn it.
So you can kind of decipher what's going on out there.
You know, do you have to have the same mind as myself as a coach where I eat,
breathe and live this crap?
No, you don't have to do that. But if you get, you know, I tell,
I try to advise most parents, if you learn enough of the game and you understand

(01:26:55):
what's going on, it will help you be able to process, you know what I mean?
Like I did a video when little semi-viral or whatever, introducing a depth chart
to people just so they understand how it works. Yeah.
Because like I was talking to one of one of the kids I coach her, her kids in high school.

(01:27:17):
And she was like, my son, you know, is barely playing. He's not getting enough
playing time and whatnot.
And I said, well, OK. I said, well, how how many minutes roughly do you think he's playing?
You know, high school, four quarters, right. For seven minute or eight minute quarters.
She's like, well, it's probably like, you know, two, three minutes.
I was like, oh, for the game. She's like, no, like a quarter.

(01:27:40):
I said, if he's playing, let's say on the low in two minutes,
a quarter, it's eight minutes out of, again, if it's 32 minutes,
how's that not a lot?
You know what I mean? I was trying to explain, and he's a sophomore on varsity.
I'm like, how's that not a lot? Right.

(01:28:02):
I was like, you know, I had to really break it down numerically to parents that
I think their concept of a lot of playing time is like their child playing to
the either the point of exhaustion or playing to where they get a certain amount of stats.
Yeah. And I'm trying to tell parents like that's not how basketball really is played.

(01:28:26):
I mean you you you know you went you you know, there's gonna be times,
Especially what you what you seven you guys had that strong group of seven Mm-hmm,
so then of course, you know eight nine ten is gonna get the least amount of
playing time, but it doesn't mean.
Their minutes aren't valuable when they're out there, you know playing,

(01:28:47):
you know understand what I'm saying for sure so it's like I really had to like,
like break this down to parents to kind of understand.
And that's why I make some of these videos and stuff like that.
Cause I'm trying to get them to under like you're it's, it takes a very special and rare individual.
That's going to just play fucking damn near the whole game.
You know, I, I had a lot of arguments with my mom because I feel like she would

(01:29:10):
kind of get mad at me sometimes that I, you know, wouldn't have the stats that you were talking about.
And I would try to explain to her, I'm like, look, like there's going to be
games where I'm not scoring, you know, 15 to 20.
Even though I'm the best player on the team, there's going to be games where
it's just, I'm not shooting the ball well, but there's other aspects of the
game. How am I defending?
Am I rebounding? Am I getting my guys shots?

(01:29:31):
Like there's so much more valuable aspects to the game that people don't really look at.
They just care about the scoring. they just care about you know the the big
aspects of the game and you know i would try to sit there and tell her i'm like
look like i may not have scored but i got the game winning rebound or again
like it's just it's little things like that that are so important not only to just.

(01:29:53):
The game itself but you know to college coaches college coaches are going to
see that and be like oh he's going to defend when the game's on the line or
he's going to do these little things when we need him to and he's not taking
a charge just diving for a loose ball i mean plus you know like
you said, talking, have that argument with your mom.
It's like the other thing they don't take into account when you are the best
player, the opposing team is game planning for you.

(01:30:16):
It's like, mom, I have to adapt to what this other team is throwing at me.
They might throw three people at me at a fucking time.
I gotta be able to pass the ball. I gotta be like, do you understand?
So no, I'm not going to drop 20 because me trying to force shots over two or
three guys, as opposed to just giving the rock up and being a playmaker or just
doing, stepping outside that scoring role to do what's necessary for my team to win, right?

(01:30:39):
You know what I mean? I think parents need to learn. That's why I say I think
it's important if they learn the game a little bit.
Exactly, I think it's really important because.
Like I said, if your kid is bringing things to the game that the team doesn't
have, a coach is always going to want that.
No coach is ever going to sit there and turn down a Draymond Green.

(01:31:00):
And I'm not saying, like, you don't have to be a Draymond Green.
Right, of course. But I'm saying, like, players like that are more valuable
than people really, you know, give them credit for. Staying tangibles.
You know what I'm saying? so I think if your kid is able to do the little things
you know when you die for loose balls take charges do things for the teams that
you know necessarily other guys don't want to do you know a coach is going to
want that player 10 out of 10 times so absolutely and can you recall,

(01:31:26):
because you like I said you've played and you
know even like you said had had the the ball
is life the social media fame a little bit everything but can
you can you recall a time where maybe you felt nervous or
you know doubtful in any uh point in
your career i mean outside of what you were dealing with at davis i
mean like when you were at you know like you were actually playing was

(01:31:49):
there a game where you were just kind of like you know damn i
just don't got it you know what i mean like you know i always want people to
kind of get the inside of the the the mental ups and the mental downs right
so the first thing that comes to i feel like the the time i was most nervous
is when when I was in my first tournament with Team Arsenal.

(01:32:10):
Oh, okay. You know, I had worked out with KP and whatnot, and he immediately
was like, we're going out to Dallas.
We're going to be in this tournament. And I had no idea who any of the players were, never met them.
He's just like, all right. I had no plays, no nothing.
Literally just went out there, I hooped. I had a really good tournament,
and that was kind of what got my exposure up. But I would say that was when I was most nervous.

(01:32:32):
I'm like, I have no idea who any of these guys are. I don't even know if I'm going to play.
I didn't start and one of the starters kind of
like had a bad starting like KP if you do that
like you're coming out the game right right right so he put me in
you know I did what I had to had some plays but I
was just I just remember if I mess up I may not ever so and when you when you

(01:32:56):
traveled when you did the travel ball deal and all that stuff can you recall
some times you had you know just some great memories some great fun times or
you know some good games that just stick out to you that you can think about?
I think most recently it was just the San Diego trip with Yuba.
I necessarily didn't, I wouldn't say I played great in that tournament,

(01:33:18):
obviously at the biggest stage and whatnot, but.
Just the feeling with those guys and what we were feeling at the moment and
just, I mean, after winning the first game, we were so high, so lit and everything.
And then obviously we lost to West Valley and we were just all heartbroken.
But it really was just a trip that, you know, it was special in a sense because

(01:33:40):
everyone was so locked into what we were doing. Like no one was worried about nothing else.
And we just, I feel like we were just so glued in together.
And that was just honestly one of the best moments, memories I've ever created
with a team to just be in that moment and be playing this high level basketball
and to have all this exposure and whatnot and, and to have a goal in mind.

(01:34:03):
And it just, obviously we felt short and whatnot, but you know,
that kind of stuff you'll never forget.
So, you know, it just, it was really special with those guys.
You know, those, my brothers for sure. Yeah, no, I just love those guys.
Build bonds through fire, man. Absolutely.
With Coach Korn, you know, this is probably my last question I'm thinking about.

(01:34:23):
I'm off of my list. I think this was like one of the last one or two.
But with Coach Korn and Coach Nate, shout out to Coach Nate as well,
because I don't want to forget him. Great guy. He'll kill me if I forget.
Go Doug, go Steven. And the GOAT Coach. He'll be right. Right.
You know, they're tough coaches, you know what I mean? They have high expectations.

(01:34:47):
They're tough coaches. You know, I would for sure coach Stevens high IQ,
you know, million sets, million plays, all that stuff, you know.
So I can't stress enough for those listening or those watching.
IQ is a huge part. So, you know, it can't just be your physical abilities and your skill.
I don't think enough emphasis is put on IQ. IQ, you know, JJ Reddick's podcast

(01:35:09):
is kind of illuminated more on how the importance of IQ,
because obviously when you hear him talk, he sounds like a very intelligent
person and very articulate and good basketball player. Now, did he deserve the Lakers job?
That's up for debate, but he is, he's definitely shown that,
you know, IQ is highly important and how much that can sustain you.
But the biggest question I wanted to ask you was, you know, having coaches like

(01:35:33):
that, that are tough, you know, kind of, you know, I'm sure there's plenty of practices where corn,
you know, gotten guys and, you know, told them about themselves and it wasn't,
you know, hugs and tickles and, you know, I mean, clouds and rainbows,
right? They telling them like, you need to get this done.

(01:35:54):
I think we've gotten to a culture, like I told you, what unfortunately has happened
in AAU, coaches, I'm still that gritty coach, you know, but I will say because
I'm old, young, whatever you want to call it, I still teach the game the way it's played now.
You know what I mean? Fast pace, looking for available shots,
heavy ball movement, you know, high level college sets.

(01:36:16):
I still emphasize all that, right? Right.
What what I mainly ask you is when you have coaches that are tough on you like
that, you know, like a corn like that, you know, did that did that bother you? Did that inspire you?
Did that, you know, obviously there's going to be some days where in your mind
you're like, man, this dude tripping or but obviously I'm assuming you might

(01:36:40):
self reflect and go, you know what? but he was right. You know what I mean? Things like that.
What advice can you give to some of these parents and kids who seem to be running
away from the UCI from hard coaching?
I think I've always had tough coaches. I don't think there's ever been a coach
where they kind of just let me be.
And it's, it's so vital. You know, I can't, I'm not, I don't want to say this,

(01:37:06):
but I necessarily will respect you less if you're going to sit there and let me slide with stuff.
You know what I'm saying? Like you gotta make me better.
You gotta make me want to fix the things that I know that I'm doing wrong and
want to be better at them.
You know what I'm saying? And so it, you know, iron sharpens iron obviously,
but I have always respected all my coaches that are going to sit there and tell

(01:37:29):
me face to face what I'm doing wrong and what I need to do better.
And so I think it's so vital and I don't know why someone would,
you know, I guess someone could sit there and be like oh you're
being too rude to my kid but just like you said it's out of love
yeah no one's gonna sit there and tell you what you're doing wrong if
they don't care about you exactly i'm saying and i do make the
distinction of disrespect and coaching like absolutely like i don't i'm not

(01:37:54):
gonna go up because i got i got a little group of fourth fifth graders right
no i'm not gonna go up to my little fourth fifth graders say you know you're
weak as shit and you're terrible no i would i wouldn't even do that to a high school kid right Right.
But will I get in my kid and say, hey, you got to give me effort.
If you don't give me effort, if you can't at minimum put your hands up,

(01:38:14):
I'd rather you stay home.
Right. But because maybe my delivery is a little loud.
They're like, oh, you hurt his feelings. You told him to stay home.
No, I didn't tell him stay home.
I said, if he's not going to give me effort, stay home.
Exactly. You know, I mean, it's it's and it's it's really funny how parents
have selective memory like this. Yeah. You know, I'm.
Think, you know, they just, they do take it as disrespect, but obviously if you're, you know,

(01:38:39):
taking it, if you're looking at a different perspective of being a parent and
you're trying to understand that this coach wants my kid to get better at certain aspects.
It'll go a long way because obviously if, you know, I feel like if parents get
offended, it's because they don't parent like that. You know what I'm saying?
They don't, they don't necessarily, they let their kid

(01:39:01):
just slide they let them the the disrespect go and if
it's like if you're not gonna discipline your kid and
hold them accountable how are they gonna hold their self accountable yeah i'm
saying and so well life will hold them accountable at some
point that's that's the hard part i think it's like i said it's just very important
to have a coach who's not necessarily like well you want a coach who's in your

(01:39:23):
corner but just a coach who is going to tell you what you're doing wrong and
they're going to want you to get better each and every single day.
And so I've always loved my coaches and always just never taken it for granted
because, you know, each one has had a different style, coaching style in a sense,
but they've all, I've always had great relationships with them. So that's, that's good.

(01:39:45):
Um, with, for you, if the,
if the opportunity presents itself, do you
have aspirations to play you know after college
whether it was be you know professionally overseas or
you know lord willing let's say things work out and
you make it to the league you never know right is that kind of
a personal goal for your for you you know absolutely i

(01:40:07):
don't i kind of look at overseas and i
question it in a sense just because there's just it's a lot you know that's
probably the biggest adaptation to to anything you know i'm saying you're moving
across across the world different time zone different culture you're not going
to know anybody i mean if you're able to bring family i would suggest do it
because it's probably going to be your biggest.

(01:40:30):
Support and just helping you add up there but you know the goal has always been
nba right right right that's why i put in the work to do every single day and
so i believe i got the the talent and skills to to do so so and and a lot those
my last question for you and then
we'll get out of here and appreciate you hanging in there with me, man.
So you, you really transformed your game overall.

(01:40:53):
You, you know, I've been fortunate enough to see, I saw, I went to a couple
of Yuba games when you guys were at ARC.
I was there cause I live right down the street. So I watched you guys and I watched you as well.
You know, you're, you're, you really well, you've turned your game into a well-rounded player.
I mean, obviously your ability to shoot has gotten much better, your IQ, everything.

(01:41:16):
What all did it take? Like, I mean, obviously, you know, let's just do the hours
in the gym, of course, but I'm just saying like, cause you have some kids who,
and I know I coach a few myself who I look at, they have, they have the,
the God given gifts that you were given, you know, the natural athleticism,
the fast twitch muscles,

(01:41:37):
the instincts, right. The natural instincts.
But again, I tell them you can't, you can't, you can't rely on that your whole
career and your whole life.
And I think you figured it out and you transformed your game.
So, you know, I just wanted you to just kind of speak of that process of how
you did it, you know, maybe some key things you did focused in on,
you know, just that got you there.
Yeah. Honestly, I would say my biggest thing is film.

(01:41:59):
You know, I have spent a lot of time just studying the game of basketball,
not only just at the highest levels, but even just my game, you know,
I would sit there and watch games and realize what I'm doing.
And even just the bad parts because you know people they'll watch film
we love watching highlights yeah they want to get the highlights they
don't want to look at the ugly parts of

(01:42:21):
the game and so you know i would sit there and i would just analyze
what is being given to me and what i did in the time and if it was the right
decision or if there was something better i could have done and so just like
you said iq is such a big part of the game and if you really get yourself to
understand the game and understand what what is being given to you,

(01:42:41):
I feel like it'll help your game out a lot because.
It's more than just, you know, getting to your spots and stuff like that.
It's a whole lot more. It's understanding that, okay, he's giving me this look.
He's playing me this way. So I got this read, you know.
And so I think film helped me, you know, really see that because,

(01:43:01):
you know, if you're training, you know, you don't necessarily have that live look in a sense.
And you don't have just the feel of the game. And so I feel like understanding
in film what I was doing wrong really helped me to get better in terms of just
reading and making the right plays. So, OK.
All right. And was there was there any specific drills you did that you think

(01:43:23):
could benefit some kids or some over the top or anything like,
you know, unique for yourself that just like I said, just trying to give some
tips out there for some of these young guys that might be in your boat.
I feel like when I'm training, I try to envision, you know, what it would look
like in game to the best of my ability.
So I necessarily don't necessarily say I have a specific drill or drills that I do.

(01:43:48):
It's just whatever I'm doing, if I'm in that, you know, position asking myself,
if the defense has given me this and I get here, this, this is how I got to get here.
And, you know, it'll implement itself into the game when you're actually there.
So I feel like that's what's helped me best is when i'm you
know training or doing drills and stuff
like that it's really helped me to understand what

(01:44:11):
my spots will look like in game if i envision it
right over here just like moving at game speed and moving
against you okay let me see just always adjusting the sound here you go well
that's my last question for you um did did you have any uh shout outs you wanted

(01:44:32):
to do real quick or anything like that while we're doing our closing.
I got to shout it out. Yeah, you did mention your mom, so that's important.
Yeah, I mentioned my mom, mentioned the Lord Jesus Christ, you know what I'm.
Music.
Saying? Give him all glory.
And shout out to everyone who's been on my journey. All right.

(01:44:52):
Again, if you've stayed till the end, you are a real one. Appreciate you.
I will have links to his IG in the description. Again, I suggest go follow him.
Follow his journey. See his path. See how it plays out.
Hopefully, this episode's helped you guys get some insight.

(01:45:13):
Again, hit that follow, hit that subscribe. Do the HBO special, help a brother out.
I definitely keep appreciating those who are telling me I'm doing something
that's helping you guys learn this game a little bit.
Because that's all I care about. I just want to give you guys free game information,
help you parents, you kids navigate this field.

(01:45:34):
Because I love this game. I love this sport. but again there's
a lot of questions a lot of uncertainty what's going on
between the transfer portal between au the shoe companies all this stuff so
i'm gonna keep giving you my word and my insight and keep bringing you hopefully
good great guests like you cam i appreciate you um best of luck to you at your
school um obviously i'll be keeping in touch from afar and um you know Again,

(01:46:00):
please, for you athletes out there, stay healthy,
stay safe, keep working hard, stay on your grind, and good things will happen.
Everybody stay blessed. God bless. We're out.
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