September 9, 2025 • 25 mins
Adventure helps children grow in confidence, creativity, and joy, but it requires a balance between safety and freedom. Kids need a secure foundation and supportive adults to feel safe exploring beyond their comfort zones. Real adventure happens through unstructured play, trying new things, and learning through experience—not screens. Small, interest-based adventures can build toward greater challenges, and success is found in the effort, not just the outcome.
Let them try. Let them fail. Let them know they’re still loved.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Brain-Based Parenting, the Boys
Ranch podcast for families.
We all know how hard being aparent is, and sometimes it
feels like there are no goodanswers to the difficult
questions families have whentheir kids are struggling.
Our goal each week will be totry and answer some of those
tough questions, utilizing theknowledge, experience and
(00:24):
professional training CalFarley's Boys Ranch has to offer
.
Now here is your host, calFarley's Staff Development
Coordinator, joshua Sprock.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Welcome everyone and thank you for joining us today
as we continue through the nextpart of our Model Leadership and
Service adventure.
Today, I'm joined by MichelleMikeheadEtter, suzanne Wright
and Mike Wilhelm, as we do eachweek.
Let's start off by jumping intoour question of the day.
When I was thinking abouttoday's topic and what to ask
for a question, for some reasoncamping popped into my head,
(00:58):
because nothing says adventuremore than camping.
So what is your opinion oncamping?
Speaker 5 (01:03):
So what is your opinion on camping?
No, no, camping, no.
I prefer indoor toilets.
I like heaters, I like airconditioners.
I refuse to participate in theadventure of camping.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
So when I first got out of college I did not want to
work in an office.
I know it's hard to believe nowand so I went into wilderness
programming for my first sixyears of working in social work.
And it was at that time.
It was a long-term program andwe lived outside.
So I worked six, seven days on,three days off and literally
(01:35):
camped out during that wholetime.
And so at one point in time,when I was younger, I loved
camping out, didn't mindsleeping on the ground, didn't
mind being outside majority ofthe time.
Now that I've gotten older, Ihave stayed in a yurt at Abilene
State Park Super fun, but I doprefer it to be a little less
rustic.
Speaker 4 (01:55):
Yeah, I love the settings to be in the outdoors
and all, but not sleeping in myown bed is, yeah, just not very
restful.
It seems like justuncomfortable, I don't know,
it's a lot of work.
Yeah, my predecessor, the personwho was chaplain before me out
here, his wife.
He loved camping.
That was his thing and hewanted to go camping all the
(02:18):
time and it would be.
You know, this is a greatvacation, right?
And his wife had a saying thatif where you sleep is not as
nice as where you sleep at home,that is not a vacation.
That was her go-to saying.
Speaker 5 (02:32):
I think there was wisdom in those words.
What about you, Josh?
Speaker 2 (02:36):
I love camping.
It's one of my favorite things.
My family goes camping up inthe mountains of Colorado every
year.
It's great, and I do hopesomeday to be on Survivor where
you can camp outside.
So yeah, I love it.
So you camp in a tent, not in acamper, oh yeah, in a tent on
the ground there you go.
Speaker 5 (02:56):
Yep, we're hardcore, we will cheer you on in Survivor
from the comfort of our ownhome, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Today we're finishing out our series on the model of
leadership and service, talkingabout adventure.
How would you all defineadventure?
Speaker 3 (03:11):
I think we're going to have some different ideas
about what adventure is, and Iwas just saying I think it
depends on the person.
It's individualized.
I think what we consider to beadventure, but probably new and
novel, come to mind when I thinkof trying something new, going
somewhere new, meeting someonenew, attempting a new skill or
that kind of thing.
So not just kind of some of thethings that you might like
(03:32):
camping, but anything that'skind of outside your comfort
zone.
Speaker 4 (03:36):
Go ahead, Suzanne.
Speaker 5 (03:37):
Sometimes we use the phrase challenge by choice, and
so I think there has to be somedesire to go on that adventure.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
To be challenged Right.
Speaker 5 (03:47):
You know, I think it's wonderful to try new
challenges, but I think you wantsome choice in that and I think
, if we go back to thefoundation of our model of
leadership and service, which issafety, I think that to try new
things, you have to feel safein that setting or with the
people that you're surrounded byin order to have that spirit of
(04:08):
adventure.
Speaker 4 (04:09):
Yeah, I was just thinking very simply, just
trying new things.
But perhaps there's more to itthan just trying new things
Trying new things where theremight be a benefit at hand.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Do you think there's a difference between how adults
define adventure and how kidsdefine adventure?
Speaker 3 (04:24):
Oh yeah, I think just the fact that you like to camp
and you're younger, josh, Ithink that just helps illustrate
that.
Speaker 5 (04:32):
I think that kids don't always think ahead about
the possibilities of what couldgo wrong in an adventure,
whereas adults do, because ourbrains are more fully developed.
Right, but if you have a14-year-old boy standing on a
roof and there's a trampoline onthe ground, what does his brain
say?
Jump right.
And if that were a 40-year-oldman standing on the now, some
(04:56):
would still say jump right.
But a lot of adults' brainswould say what if I miss?
What if the trampoline busts?
What if I break a bone?
How long would I be in thehospital?
So we like to go on adventures,but we have to be responsible.
We have to think about all thepossibilities and kids hopefully
(05:17):
have that ability just to havesome fun without the
responsibility of worry.
Speaker 4 (05:23):
So you're saying you think the kids are more reckless
and the adults are more careful?
Speaker 5 (05:28):
I don't know that I would use the word reckless, but
adults have responsibilitiesthat kids don't, and kids aren't
restrained or confined by thoseresponsibilities.
I would say kids are sometimesmore adventurous.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
So why is that difference between how kids see
adventure and adults seeadventure important to
understand?
Speaker 3 (05:49):
Yeah, I think we can get so focused on something
being dangerous, something beingscary, something being novel
that we forget what it was liketo be younger and want to
explore and do those differentthings and so kind of like what
Suzanne was saying.
How do we provide thoseinterests and that enthusiasm in
a way that mitigates all therisk involved with it?
Speaker 5 (06:08):
There's an episode of the Big Bang Theory where
Sheldon says I had to leavebecause they were having fun
wrong, and so I think that'skind of our adult brains.
There's a specific way to dothings in a correct way and a
wrong way, and sometimes we takethe fun out of an experience
(06:32):
because we think, well, they'rehaving fun wrong, instead of
just able to allow that fun tohappen.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Yes, and I think in those attempts to keep everyone
safe, sometimes we add too manyrules and too many restrictions.
Attempts to keep everyone safeSometimes we add too many rules
and too many restrictions.
I can remember the kiddo beingin kindergarten and the
kindergarten teacher wereputting so many rules on the
Easter egg hunt that they had toconcentrate so hard on the
rules they couldn't even findthe eggs.
And so I think we do that a lotwith things.
When we're trying to add toomuch control and safety to
(07:01):
something, we take all the funand adventure out of it.
Speaker 4 (07:03):
And safety to something, we take all the fun
and adventure out of it.
Oh yes, I've seen this happenbefore, for sure.
We used to do a particularbackpacking trip and we probably
were on the other end of thatspectrum to where maybe we
needed a few more safety rulesin place.
But then we had someone comealong one particular year who
(07:25):
was very safety conscious andgreat person and, you know,
trying hard to do a good job.
But we were so inundated with,overwhelmed with all these rules
and protocols and to where wewere missing the trip itself
because we were just all, wewere just consumed with oh my
(07:46):
gosh, what's that rule aboutthis?
What's the rule about this?
So there's definitely a pointwhere we can just kind of suck
all the magic out of theadventure.
Speaker 5 (07:56):
I think a lot of parents can relate to your child
opening a Christmas gift anddiscarding the gift and playing
with the box and the wrappingpaper Right, and we as adults
get frustrated.
But I bought this gift and Iput time into this gift and we
want them to play with the giftinstead of just enjoying the
fact that they're joyful andthey're happy in that moment and
(08:18):
whatever brings that joy weshould celebrate, Right?
So if they want to play withthe box, play with that box.
Speaker 4 (08:24):
Yeah, I've been reading some recently about the
need for unsupervised play.
I don't know if Josh, suzanneor Michelle have heard any of
that out there right now that'sin play and I really appreciate
some of the things it's causedme to think about.
And obviously, if you're aresidential child care setting
(08:45):
like ours, that's difficult todo.
But even for those listening athome seems like there's ways to
incorporate some of that towhere there's still some safety
things in place or watch it froma distance.
But for that, for a child toexplore and try new things and
build a fort with their friendor what you know to be, it seems
(09:08):
like there's imagination andcreative capacity.
All this awakens when there'ssome unsupervised play that are
probably our culture right nowdoesn't have much space for that
, don't you?
Speaker 3 (09:20):
think Well, and I was in unstructured like
unstructured play yeah, that's abetter way.
Speaker 4 (09:25):
Unsupervised is very terrible.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
Yeah, because that scared me when you said
unsupervised but, yeah,unstructured time to be able to
play, because, I think about it,I'm a pretty lazy parent.
My kids weren't involved in awhole bunch of activities and
then when I talk to my friends,their kids are heavily scheduled
throughout the week and I usedto feel very guilty about that,
about I should, you know, get upearlier and my kids should stay
(09:46):
longer, and all this kind ofstuff.
And I do think it's a balance,right.
Everything we're talking about,with having some safety and
some rules and then allowingsome freedom and some, you know,
flexibility with things, isfollowing that balance where
kids do have unstructured timeto be creative and to figure
things out without adultstelling them how to do something
and when to do it.
Speaker 4 (10:06):
The capacity just to develop.
Problem solving seems to happenthrough good attention to this,
don't?
Speaker 5 (10:13):
you think?
Speaker 4 (10:15):
And if everything all play, everything is structured
without any unstructured time, Iwonder if we're going to have
children that don't have theircapacity to problem solve is
going to seem to be compromised.
Speaker 5 (10:32):
When my oldest daughter was young we frequently
ate at a Mexican foodrestaurant that had a sombrero
on the wall and she keptpointing to that hat saying
candy cane, and I keptcorrecting her and after several
instances I looked and indeedthere were shapes of a candy
cane on that hat and I thoughtI'm so limited, right, my brain
(10:54):
has been trained to see onething and have one correct
answer, and her imagination waswide open and she could see
things that I couldn't see.
Yes, and that was an aha momentfor me.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
Yes, and I remember that just with my kids doing
artwork.
You want them to have the grassgreen and the sky blue and the
sun's yellow and all those kindof things, and in some ways it's
really sad when we constrainthem in that way and try to get
them to conform to how we thinkit should be, instead of just
allowing them to do it.
Speaker 5 (11:24):
It sounds like we can learn.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
So what does it look like when a child is having
success with adventure?
Speaker 3 (11:31):
Smiles is the first thing that came to mind.
Speaker 5 (11:34):
I think there is so much that we want our kids to
accomplish right.
We want them to do well inschool and if they're in
activities, we want them to besuccessful in those activities
and sometimes we forget howimportant play is.
That goes back to thatunstructured play.
But kids need time to use theirimagination and to explore and
(11:54):
to try new things.
And success with adventurousthings doesn't just mean
accomplishment or winning, doingthe best, but it just means
that they are willing to try andthat they're having fun.
Speaker 4 (12:09):
Well, I have to guess another horse story.
Fun Well, I have to guessanother horse story.
But just this fall there was ayoung man that's here from lives
in a city and comes to Boy'sRanch and at first, when he's
here, he was pretty withdrawnand, lo and behold, he decides
to come out on a prayer ride.
And what we do on a prayer rideis we saddle up and ride two
(12:32):
and a half miles west, have alittle simple prayer at sunset,
and then we ride back under thestars, first time he'd ever
ridden a horse, and then, of allthings, you're even riding back
in the dark.
So he really stretched himself.
But he talked on the way backand he says you know, when I
first got here I just thought Iwas going to just do my time and
(12:53):
just do what I need to do untilI graduated or went home or
whatever he says.
You know, I decided, as long asI'm here, I want to try new
things.
And he was so proud of himself.
He just had this euphoria, ashe was at this point in the
prayer ride where he was on thishorse, and he really realized
he wasn't going to die and hewas giddy about it, but it seems
(13:18):
like it instills someconfidence and they're ready to
try other new things, and Inoticed that as those that are
engaged with adventure.
It seems like maybe they camein and didn't have much practice
with relationships with adultseye contact and conversation.
It seems like the next thingyou know, that's another new
(13:40):
thing they're trying and maybe,whether or not they're realizing
it or not, don't you think,yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
How important is it to have that safe, supportive
adult to have success withadventure.
Speaker 5 (13:50):
I think it's very important.
I think that all children needa safe base right so that they
can go out and experiment andtry new things.
But if it starts to feel unsafeor overwhelming, that they've
got a relationship with an adultthat they can check back in,
that they can receive moreencouragement or more support,
or make that choice.
I don't wanna proceed anyfurther with this adventure.
(14:11):
Right, I tried riding horses.
I don't like it.
I don't want to proceed anyfurther with this adventure.
Right, I tried riding horses.
I don't like it, I don't wantto do it anymore.
But that they have a safe,supportive adult to say okay,
that's good, thanks for trying,but I honor your decision.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
I think there's two pieces to what you just said is
super important.
One is unconditional acceptanceright, so that even if you are
unsuccessful, you're still caredfor, you're still valued.
I think that's such animportant piece to being okay,
to trying things.
And then the other one is thatyou know being okay to say that
I don't like this and I don'twant to do this, and that's
honored too.
Because I think a lot of timeswe try to teach kids you don't
(14:47):
ever quit.
You know you do have to do yourbest at every single thing, and
so to give them that freedom tosay there's going to be some
things you're good at and somethings you're not, and some
things you don't like and somethings you do, I think that is
very freeing to allow them tofigure that out.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
What does it look like or what are some warning
signs that a child is strugglingwith having an adventure?
Speaker 5 (15:02):
I think it's almost impossible for a child to have
adventure if they don't firstfeel safe and if they don't have
belonging and if they don'thave belonging.
So when we look back at all thecomponents of the model of
leadership and service, I thinkthey're all important leading up
to adventure.
And so when you feel safe, whenyou feel connected to other
people, when you have a sense ofachievement, you can take that
(15:26):
next step and try things thatare new or different or possibly
scary.
But if you don't have thatbasic felt safety, then it's
almost impossible to try newthings.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
You know, then I kind of think of it the other way
around.
Like I remember, we had a schoolthat consolidated with ours
when I was in high school andthey brought these other kids in
and of course that's a weirdsituation because they're all in
their own group and we'realready established as a group
and the kids came in and theywere at that time breakdancing
was really popular and parachutepants and they came in and we
(15:58):
were not doing that at my schooland they came in and started
breakdancing during the lunchperiod and that brought them
belonging and through that theygot safety, because we were all
so intrigued that they could dothis really cool thing that none
of us could do.
Safety because we were all sointrigued that they could do
this really cool thing that noneof us could do.
And I thought it took a lot ofbravery for them to do something
, but because it was somethingthey enjoyed and they were good
at, they were willing to do thatin a setting which probably did
(16:20):
not feel very safe to them, butbecause they did it, it brought
these other things to them.
Speaker 5 (16:25):
So.
So the follow up question isthen did you start to wear
parachute pants?
I did have parachute pants.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
I did not break dance .
Okay, that's.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
If our listeners felt that their kids were struggling
with having a sense ofadventure in their lives, how
would you recommend that theyhelp them with this?
Speaker 5 (16:44):
I think I would look for opportunities that matched
the interest of my child.
So I would start with somethingthat there was an interest in,
that maybe felt safe.
If they were interested inanimals, I might not take them
to ride a horse, that might betoo big of a step.
But we might go visit dogs atan animal shelter or, you know,
(17:05):
visit a neighbor's dog, or Ijust think you start with
something that already feelsfamiliar to them and then expand
on that connection.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
No, I think that's good, suzanne, what you just
said, and if you wouldn't wantto have too many new things
happening at one time, probablyif I'm thinking, suddenly I'm a
stranger in a new small groupthat's going to do something,
that's a stretch, that's anadventure, but that might be too
(17:37):
much at once.
But, if I have a small groupthat I become comfortable with
and familiar with it's a safenumber and there's that safe
person that's the mentor leaderthen I'm probably ready to go do
something.
But sometimes we probably canmake a mistake of throwing too
much at once, don't you think?
Speaker 3 (17:56):
Yeah, Well, I know I've talked about, you know, my
goat yoga and my aerial yoga,but the friend I do that with is
one particular friend who'svery adventurous and I feel
brave when I'm with her becauseshe is so adventurous.
I do things with her that Iwouldn't normally do on my own.
Speaker 4 (18:11):
Now do you wear your parachute pants when you do
aerial goat yoga?
Speaker 3 (18:15):
I wish I could find those parachute pants.
They were orange.
Speaker 4 (18:20):
Yeah, because they might as well be, were they MC
Hammer pants.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
No, those are different.
Speaker 5 (18:27):
I think that this makes me think about setting New
Year's resolutions and howfrequently people set big
resolutions or numerousresolutions and within a month,
they've not been able to followthrough because it was too much.
Right, and so, just as you said, mike, joining a new group and
(18:49):
participating in a new activitymay be too much at one time
right, and so we've talked aboutthis in previous episodes.
But to make changesincrementally, make small
changes right, small steps,small connections, rather than
try some big, overwhelming goalor activity at once.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
If a kid doesn't have a sense of adventure in their
life, what can that lead to?
Speaker 3 (19:13):
I mean, I think you can miss out on a lot of things,
a lot of opportunities toprobably meet some pretty cool
people then experience some joy,you might also miss out on
opportunities that help youdefine your purpose and learn
about yourself.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
What do you think the impact of kids getting their
adventure needs met with videogames or being so connected with
the virtual world that theydon't get out into the real
world and have a real adventure?
Speaker 4 (19:37):
Oh boy, I think that's a big one and I've been
thinking about that here throughthis whole discussion the role
video games are playing in this.
Some may disagree with me but Idon't think video games taps
into this need for adventure orif it does, maybe just minimally
(19:57):
.
And I imagine there'll be a lotof listeners that probably
struggle with kiddos at homearound video games or being on
their phones and you're probablynagging at them a lot about it
and it's frustrating and I getthat.
But there's a mistake we canmake in this and that is to just
nag for them to get away fromthe video games or from the
(20:20):
phone instead of inviting theminto something better, and that
takes some forethought and beingintentional and takes time.
But invite them into anadventure and suddenly the video
game doesn't have to have thelast say right.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
We have to put our phones and video games down as
well to do that forethought andset things up.
Speaker 4 (20:45):
Yeah, I know.
I just know I could get stuckin that mode where you know I'm
frustrated that the child isstuck into the video games or in
the phone and you just want tolecture and nag, but that's not
going to help anything.
What I need to do is let's findsome ways to do something
better together and invite theminto adventure.
Speaker 5 (21:05):
There was a study done just recently where the
people surveyed were asked doyou think that you could land a
passenger plane in an emergency?
And an overwhelming number ofpeople it was I don't remember
exactly.
30 to 50% of respondents said Idon't remember exactly.
30 to 50% of respondents saidyeah, I've landed a plane on a
(21:25):
video game.
Sure I could do it right as longas the tower was talking me
through it.
And so the discussion wasthey're not taking into
consideration, like the g-forceand the actual physicality of
being in that plane.
But I thought we assume thatthat video world is way more
real life than it is, so much sothat and these were adults who
(21:47):
were surveyed by the way that'sbecome our reality, and I think
that there's danger in that forall of us, adults as well as
children.
But I love your idea to invitethem to something better,
something different.
Speaker 4 (22:00):
An adventure.
An adventure, a real lifeadventure.
Yeah, the video games.
Michelle, josh, suzanne helpedme understand this.
It would seem like the videogame is tapping into stimulation
into the central nervous system, so that there's an addictive
quality to this.
(22:21):
But adventure would bedifferent, because there would
be some nice rush to adventurebut there seems like there's
real meaning at the center,rather than just empty, just
playing upon my central nervoussystem like a video game would
do.
Are you following me?
Speaker 3 (22:39):
Is that right.
Speaker 4 (22:40):
Am I off on this, or is there something to that?
Speaker 3 (22:43):
No, I think that's right.
I was trying to think how youcould distinguish.
I'm sure there's a biologicalway you can distinguish that.
But I was thinking about thedifference between when we use
devices or electronics toconnect versus disconnect,
Because we do both with them.
We use them to disconnect fromthe real world, but then we also
use them to stay connected topeople in ways that are new to
(23:04):
it recently.
New to us, I guess, as aspecies.
But I think that when we leaveout the relational component to
anything we're not, it's kind oflike having an artificial
sweetener instead of sugar,right, it's kind of like it kind
of tricks your brain intothinking you're getting
something that you're really notgetting.
And so that's kind of the way Ifeel about video games and
being on teams and that kind ofthing, and virtually I'm sure
(23:26):
there is some aspect of that tofeel like you belong and you're
accomplishing something, butit's kind of an artificial piece
of it instead of an authenticrelationship.
Speaker 4 (23:36):
That makes sense.
It would seem like that boredomis a byproduct where we become
very dependent on thatstimulation.
So when we're not getting thatstimulation, just by default the
person is bored.
But adventure seems to besomething that is a good remedy
for boredom.
And I don't know if I've sharedthis with the group here before
(23:57):
on podcast, but there was a dayone of the groups of young boys
out here at Boys Ranch werehaving a really bad day and one
of our co-workers out herestopped by the house and checked
on them and the people on dutysaid, well, this is a bad day.
You might want to come backtomorrow.
(24:18):
And he says well, I'm goingover to the other side of the
highway to catalog insects.
Would you mind if I took theboys with me?
And the staff on duty says,well, you know, that's really
nice of you, but I just don'tthink it would possibly work.
And he says give me, let mejust have a try at it.
(24:38):
So these boys that were havinga bad day okay, they were very
dysregulated got in the truck,they went over the other side of
the road and they were overthere for hours and didn't want
to come back, and they were justquiet and intense and they were
looking for different bugs andfiguring out from the guide what
(24:59):
kind they were.
And they were on an adventure.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
Well, it has been an adventure with you all these
last several weeks exploring themodel of leadership and service
.
Remember you might have to loanout your frontal lobes today.
Just make sure you remember toget them back.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
Thank you for listening to Brain Based
Parenting.
We hope you enjoyed this show.
If you would like moreinformation about Cal Farley's
Boys Ranch, are interested inemployment, would like
information about placing yourchild, or would like to help us
help children by donating to ourmission, please visit
(25:35):
calfarleyorg.
You can find us on all socialmedia platforms by searching for
Cal Farley's.
Thank you for spending yourtime with us and have a blessed
day.
Welcome to Brain-Based Parenting, the Boys
Ranch podcast for families.
We all know how hard being aparent is, and sometimes it
feels like there are no goodanswers to the difficult
questions families have whentheir kids are struggling.
Our goal each week will be totry and answer some of those
tough questions, utilizing theknowledge, experience and
(00:24):
professional training CalFarley's Boys Ranch has to offer
.
Now here is your host, calFarley's Staff Development
Coordinator, joshua Sprock.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Welcome everyone and thank you for joining us today
as we continue through the nextpart of our Model Leadership and
Service adventure.
Today, I'm joined by MichelleMikeheadEtter, suzanne Wright
and Mike Wilhelm, as we do eachweek.
Let's start off by jumping intoour question of the day.
When I was thinking abouttoday's topic and what to ask
for a question, for some reasoncamping popped into my head,
(00:58):
because nothing says adventuremore than camping.
So what is your opinion oncamping?
Speaker 5 (01:03):
So what is your opinion on camping?
No, no, camping, no.
I prefer indoor toilets.
I like heaters, I like airconditioners.
I refuse to participate in theadventure of camping.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
So when I first got out of college I did not want to
work in an office.
I know it's hard to believe nowand so I went into wilderness
programming for my first sixyears of working in social work.
And it was at that time.
It was a long-term program andwe lived outside.
So I worked six, seven days on,three days off and literally
(01:35):
camped out during that wholetime.
And so at one point in time,when I was younger, I loved
camping out, didn't mindsleeping on the ground, didn't
mind being outside majority ofthe time.
Now that I've gotten older, Ihave stayed in a yurt at Abilene
State Park Super fun, but I doprefer it to be a little less
rustic.
Speaker 4 (01:55):
Yeah, I love the settings to be in the outdoors
and all, but not sleeping in myown bed is, yeah, just not very
restful.
It seems like justuncomfortable, I don't know,
it's a lot of work.
Yeah, my predecessor, the personwho was chaplain before me out
here, his wife.
He loved camping.
That was his thing and hewanted to go camping all the
(02:18):
time and it would be.
You know, this is a greatvacation, right?
And his wife had a saying thatif where you sleep is not as
nice as where you sleep at home,that is not a vacation.
That was her go-to saying.
Speaker 5 (02:32):
I think there was wisdom in those words.
What about you, Josh?
Speaker 2 (02:36):
I love camping.
It's one of my favorite things.
My family goes camping up inthe mountains of Colorado every
year.
It's great, and I do hopesomeday to be on Survivor where
you can camp outside.
So yeah, I love it.
So you camp in a tent, not in acamper, oh yeah, in a tent on
the ground there you go.
Speaker 5 (02:56):
Yep, we're hardcore, we will cheer you on in Survivor
from the comfort of our ownhome, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Today we're finishing out our series on the model of
leadership and service, talkingabout adventure.
How would you all defineadventure?
Speaker 3 (03:11):
I think we're going to have some different ideas
about what adventure is, and Iwas just saying I think it
depends on the person.
It's individualized.
I think what we consider to beadventure, but probably new and
novel, come to mind when I thinkof trying something new, going
somewhere new, meeting someonenew, attempting a new skill or
that kind of thing.
So not just kind of some of thethings that you might like
(03:32):
camping, but anything that'skind of outside your comfort
zone.
Speaker 4 (03:36):
Go ahead, Suzanne.
Speaker 5 (03:37):
Sometimes we use the phrase challenge by choice, and
so I think there has to be somedesire to go on that adventure.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
To be challenged Right.
Speaker 5 (03:47):
You know, I think it's wonderful to try new
challenges, but I think you wantsome choice in that and I think
, if we go back to thefoundation of our model of
leadership and service, which issafety, I think that to try new
things, you have to feel safein that setting or with the
people that you're surrounded byin order to have that spirit of
(04:08):
adventure.
Speaker 4 (04:09):
Yeah, I was just thinking very simply, just
trying new things.
But perhaps there's more to itthan just trying new things
Trying new things where theremight be a benefit at hand.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Do you think there's a difference between how adults
define adventure and how kidsdefine adventure?
Speaker 3 (04:24):
Oh yeah, I think just the fact that you like to camp
and you're younger, josh, Ithink that just helps illustrate
that.
Speaker 5 (04:32):
I think that kids don't always think ahead about
the possibilities of what couldgo wrong in an adventure,
whereas adults do, because ourbrains are more fully developed.
Right, but if you have a14-year-old boy standing on a
roof and there's a trampoline onthe ground, what does his brain
say?
Jump right.
And if that were a 40-year-oldman standing on the now, some
(04:56):
would still say jump right.
But a lot of adults' brainswould say what if I miss?
What if the trampoline busts?
What if I break a bone?
How long would I be in thehospital?
So we like to go on adventures,but we have to be responsible.
We have to think about all thepossibilities and kids hopefully
(05:17):
have that ability just to havesome fun without the
responsibility of worry.
Speaker 4 (05:23):
So you're saying you think the kids are more reckless
and the adults are more careful?
Speaker 5 (05:28):
I don't know that I would use the word reckless, but
adults have responsibilitiesthat kids don't, and kids aren't
restrained or confined by thoseresponsibilities.
I would say kids are sometimesmore adventurous.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
So why is that difference between how kids see
adventure and adults seeadventure important to
understand?
Speaker 3 (05:49):
Yeah, I think we can get so focused on something
being dangerous, something beingscary, something being novel
that we forget what it was liketo be younger and want to
explore and do those differentthings and so kind of like what
Suzanne was saying.
How do we provide thoseinterests and that enthusiasm in
a way that mitigates all therisk involved with it?
Speaker 5 (06:08):
There's an episode of the Big Bang Theory where
Sheldon says I had to leavebecause they were having fun
wrong, and so I think that'skind of our adult brains.
There's a specific way to dothings in a correct way and a
wrong way, and sometimes we takethe fun out of an experience
(06:32):
because we think, well, they'rehaving fun wrong, instead of
just able to allow that fun tohappen.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Yes, and I think in those attempts to keep everyone
safe, sometimes we add too manyrules and too many restrictions.
Attempts to keep everyone safeSometimes we add too many rules
and too many restrictions.
I can remember the kiddo beingin kindergarten and the
kindergarten teacher wereputting so many rules on the
Easter egg hunt that they had toconcentrate so hard on the
rules they couldn't even findthe eggs.
And so I think we do that a lotwith things.
When we're trying to add toomuch control and safety to
(07:01):
something, we take all the funand adventure out of it.
Speaker 4 (07:03):
And safety to something, we take all the fun
and adventure out of it.
Oh yes, I've seen this happenbefore, for sure.
We used to do a particularbackpacking trip and we probably
were on the other end of thatspectrum to where maybe we
needed a few more safety rulesin place.
But then we had someone comealong one particular year who
(07:25):
was very safety conscious andgreat person and, you know,
trying hard to do a good job.
But we were so inundated with,overwhelmed with all these rules
and protocols and to where wewere missing the trip itself
because we were just all, wewere just consumed with oh my
(07:46):
gosh, what's that rule aboutthis?
What's the rule about this?
So there's definitely a pointwhere we can just kind of suck
all the magic out of theadventure.
Speaker 5 (07:56):
I think a lot of parents can relate to your child
opening a Christmas gift anddiscarding the gift and playing
with the box and the wrappingpaper Right, and we as adults
get frustrated.
But I bought this gift and Iput time into this gift and we
want them to play with the giftinstead of just enjoying the
fact that they're joyful andthey're happy in that moment and
(08:18):
whatever brings that joy weshould celebrate, Right?
So if they want to play withthe box, play with that box.
Speaker 4 (08:24):
Yeah, I've been reading some recently about the
need for unsupervised play.
I don't know if Josh, suzanneor Michelle have heard any of
that out there right now that'sin play and I really appreciate
some of the things it's causedme to think about.
And obviously, if you're aresidential child care setting
(08:45):
like ours, that's difficult todo.
But even for those listening athome seems like there's ways to
incorporate some of that towhere there's still some safety
things in place or watch it froma distance.
But for that, for a child toexplore and try new things and
build a fort with their friendor what you know to be, it seems
(09:08):
like there's imagination andcreative capacity.
All this awakens when there'ssome unsupervised play that are
probably our culture right nowdoesn't have much space for that
, don't you?
Speaker 3 (09:20):
think Well, and I was in unstructured like
unstructured play yeah, that's abetter way.
Speaker 4 (09:25):
Unsupervised is very terrible.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
Yeah, because that scared me when you said
unsupervised but, yeah,unstructured time to be able to
play, because, I think about it,I'm a pretty lazy parent.
My kids weren't involved in awhole bunch of activities and
then when I talk to my friends,their kids are heavily scheduled
throughout the week and I usedto feel very guilty about that,
about I should, you know, get upearlier and my kids should stay
(09:46):
longer, and all this kind ofstuff.
And I do think it's a balance,right.
Everything we're talking about,with having some safety and
some rules and then allowingsome freedom and some, you know,
flexibility with things, isfollowing that balance where
kids do have unstructured timeto be creative and to figure
things out without adultstelling them how to do something
and when to do it.
Speaker 4 (10:06):
The capacity just to develop.
Problem solving seems to happenthrough good attention to this,
don't?
Speaker 5 (10:13):
you think?
Speaker 4 (10:15):
And if everything all play, everything is structured
without any unstructured time, Iwonder if we're going to have
children that don't have theircapacity to problem solve is
going to seem to be compromised.
Speaker 5 (10:32):
When my oldest daughter was young we frequently
ate at a Mexican foodrestaurant that had a sombrero
on the wall and she keptpointing to that hat saying
candy cane, and I keptcorrecting her and after several
instances I looked and indeedthere were shapes of a candy
cane on that hat and I thoughtI'm so limited, right, my brain
(10:54):
has been trained to see onething and have one correct
answer, and her imagination waswide open and she could see
things that I couldn't see.
Yes, and that was an aha momentfor me.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
Yes, and I remember that just with my kids doing
artwork.
You want them to have the grassgreen and the sky blue and the
sun's yellow and all those kindof things, and in some ways it's
really sad when we constrainthem in that way and try to get
them to conform to how we thinkit should be, instead of just
allowing them to do it.
Speaker 5 (11:24):
It sounds like we can learn.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
So what does it look like when a child is having
success with adventure?
Speaker 3 (11:31):
Smiles is the first thing that came to mind.
Speaker 5 (11:34):
I think there is so much that we want our kids to
accomplish right.
We want them to do well inschool and if they're in
activities, we want them to besuccessful in those activities
and sometimes we forget howimportant play is.
That goes back to thatunstructured play.
But kids need time to use theirimagination and to explore and
(11:54):
to try new things.
And success with adventurousthings doesn't just mean
accomplishment or winning, doingthe best, but it just means
that they are willing to try andthat they're having fun.
Speaker 4 (12:09):
Well, I have to guess another horse story.
Fun Well, I have to guessanother horse story.
But just this fall there was ayoung man that's here from lives
in a city and comes to Boy'sRanch and at first, when he's
here, he was pretty withdrawnand, lo and behold, he decides
to come out on a prayer ride.
And what we do on a prayer rideis we saddle up and ride two
(12:32):
and a half miles west, have alittle simple prayer at sunset,
and then we ride back under thestars, first time he'd ever
ridden a horse, and then, of allthings, you're even riding back
in the dark.
So he really stretched himself.
But he talked on the way backand he says you know, when I
first got here I just thought Iwas going to just do my time and
(12:53):
just do what I need to do untilI graduated or went home or
whatever he says.
You know, I decided, as long asI'm here, I want to try new
things.
And he was so proud of himself.
He just had this euphoria, ashe was at this point in the
prayer ride where he was on thishorse, and he really realized
he wasn't going to die and hewas giddy about it, but it seems
(13:18):
like it instills someconfidence and they're ready to
try other new things, and Inoticed that as those that are
engaged with adventure.
It seems like maybe they camein and didn't have much practice
with relationships with adultseye contact and conversation.
It seems like the next thingyou know, that's another new
(13:40):
thing they're trying and maybe,whether or not they're realizing
it or not, don't you think,yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
How important is it to have that safe, supportive
adult to have success withadventure.
Speaker 5 (13:50):
I think it's very important.
I think that all children needa safe base right so that they
can go out and experiment andtry new things.
But if it starts to feel unsafeor overwhelming, that they've
got a relationship with an adultthat they can check back in,
that they can receive moreencouragement or more support,
or make that choice.
I don't wanna proceed anyfurther with this adventure.
(14:11):
Right, I tried riding horses.
I don't like it.
I don't want to proceed anyfurther with this adventure.
Right, I tried riding horses.
I don't like it, I don't wantto do it anymore.
But that they have a safe,supportive adult to say okay,
that's good, thanks for trying,but I honor your decision.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
I think there's two pieces to what you just said is
super important.
One is unconditional acceptanceright, so that even if you are
unsuccessful, you're still caredfor, you're still valued.
I think that's such animportant piece to being okay,
to trying things.
And then the other one is thatyou know being okay to say that
I don't like this and I don'twant to do this, and that's
honored too.
Because I think a lot of timeswe try to teach kids you don't
(14:47):
ever quit.
You know you do have to do yourbest at every single thing, and
so to give them that freedom tosay there's going to be some
things you're good at and somethings you're not, and some
things you don't like and somethings you do, I think that is
very freeing to allow them tofigure that out.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
What does it look like or what are some warning
signs that a child is strugglingwith having an adventure?
Speaker 5 (15:02):
I think it's almost impossible for a child to have
adventure if they don't firstfeel safe and if they don't have
belonging and if they don'thave belonging.
So when we look back at all thecomponents of the model of
leadership and service, I thinkthey're all important leading up
to adventure.
And so when you feel safe, whenyou feel connected to other
people, when you have a sense ofachievement, you can take that
(15:26):
next step and try things thatare new or different or possibly
scary.
But if you don't have thatbasic felt safety, then it's
almost impossible to try newthings.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
You know, then I kind of think of it the other way
around.
Like I remember, we had a schoolthat consolidated with ours
when I was in high school andthey brought these other kids in
and of course that's a weirdsituation because they're all in
their own group and we'realready established as a group
and the kids came in and theywere at that time breakdancing
was really popular and parachutepants and they came in and we
(15:58):
were not doing that at my schooland they came in and started
breakdancing during the lunchperiod and that brought them
belonging and through that theygot safety, because we were all
so intrigued that they could dothis really cool thing that none
of us could do.
Safety because we were all sointrigued that they could do
this really cool thing that noneof us could do.
And I thought it took a lot ofbravery for them to do something
, but because it was somethingthey enjoyed and they were good
at, they were willing to do thatin a setting which probably did
(16:20):
not feel very safe to them, butbecause they did it, it brought
these other things to them.
Speaker 5 (16:25):
So.
So the follow up question isthen did you start to wear
parachute pants?
I did have parachute pants.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
I did not break dance .
Okay, that's.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
If our listeners felt that their kids were struggling
with having a sense ofadventure in their lives, how
would you recommend that theyhelp them with this?
Speaker 5 (16:44):
I think I would look for opportunities that matched
the interest of my child.
So I would start with somethingthat there was an interest in,
that maybe felt safe.
If they were interested inanimals, I might not take them
to ride a horse, that might betoo big of a step.
But we might go visit dogs atan animal shelter or, you know,
(17:05):
visit a neighbor's dog, or Ijust think you start with
something that already feelsfamiliar to them and then expand
on that connection.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
No, I think that's good, suzanne, what you just
said, and if you wouldn't wantto have too many new things
happening at one time, probablyif I'm thinking, suddenly I'm a
stranger in a new small groupthat's going to do something,
that's a stretch, that's anadventure, but that might be too
(17:37):
much at once.
But, if I have a small groupthat I become comfortable with
and familiar with it's a safenumber and there's that safe
person that's the mentor leaderthen I'm probably ready to go do
something.
But sometimes we probably canmake a mistake of throwing too
much at once, don't you think?
Speaker 3 (17:56):
Yeah, Well, I know I've talked about, you know, my
goat yoga and my aerial yoga,but the friend I do that with is
one particular friend who'svery adventurous and I feel
brave when I'm with her becauseshe is so adventurous.
I do things with her that Iwouldn't normally do on my own.
Speaker 4 (18:11):
Now do you wear your parachute pants when you do
aerial goat yoga?
Speaker 3 (18:15):
I wish I could find those parachute pants.
They were orange.
Speaker 4 (18:20):
Yeah, because they might as well be, were they MC
Hammer pants.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
No, those are different.
Speaker 5 (18:27):
I think that this makes me think about setting New
Year's resolutions and howfrequently people set big
resolutions or numerousresolutions and within a month,
they've not been able to followthrough because it was too much.
Right, and so, just as you said, mike, joining a new group and
(18:49):
participating in a new activitymay be too much at one time
right, and so we've talked aboutthis in previous episodes.
But to make changesincrementally, make small
changes right, small steps,small connections, rather than
try some big, overwhelming goalor activity at once.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
If a kid doesn't have a sense of adventure in their
life, what can that lead to?
Speaker 3 (19:13):
I mean, I think you can miss out on a lot of things,
a lot of opportunities toprobably meet some pretty cool
people then experience some joy,you might also miss out on
opportunities that help youdefine your purpose and learn
about yourself.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
What do you think the impact of kids getting their
adventure needs met with videogames or being so connected with
the virtual world that theydon't get out into the real
world and have a real adventure?
Speaker 4 (19:37):
Oh boy, I think that's a big one and I've been
thinking about that here throughthis whole discussion the role
video games are playing in this.
Some may disagree with me but Idon't think video games taps
into this need for adventure orif it does, maybe just minimally
(19:57):
.
And I imagine there'll be a lotof listeners that probably
struggle with kiddos at homearound video games or being on
their phones and you're probablynagging at them a lot about it
and it's frustrating and I getthat.
But there's a mistake we canmake in this and that is to just
nag for them to get away fromthe video games or from the
(20:20):
phone instead of inviting theminto something better, and that
takes some forethought and beingintentional and takes time.
But invite them into anadventure and suddenly the video
game doesn't have to have thelast say right.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
We have to put our phones and video games down as
well to do that forethought andset things up.
Speaker 4 (20:45):
Yeah, I know.
I just know I could get stuckin that mode where you know I'm
frustrated that the child isstuck into the video games or in
the phone and you just want tolecture and nag, but that's not
going to help anything.
What I need to do is let's findsome ways to do something
better together and invite theminto adventure.
Speaker 5 (21:05):
There was a study done just recently where the
people surveyed were asked doyou think that you could land a
passenger plane in an emergency?
And an overwhelming number ofpeople it was I don't remember
exactly.
30 to 50% of respondents said Idon't remember exactly.
30 to 50% of respondents saidyeah, I've landed a plane on a
(21:25):
video game.
Sure I could do it right as longas the tower was talking me
through it.
And so the discussion wasthey're not taking into
consideration, like the g-forceand the actual physicality of
being in that plane.
But I thought we assume thatthat video world is way more
real life than it is, so much sothat and these were adults who
(21:47):
were surveyed by the way that'sbecome our reality, and I think
that there's danger in that forall of us, adults as well as
children.
But I love your idea to invitethem to something better,
something different.
Speaker 4 (22:00):
An adventure.
An adventure, a real lifeadventure.
Yeah, the video games.
Michelle, josh, suzanne helpedme understand this.
It would seem like the videogame is tapping into stimulation
into the central nervous system, so that there's an addictive
quality to this.
(22:21):
But adventure would bedifferent, because there would
be some nice rush to adventurebut there seems like there's
real meaning at the center,rather than just empty, just
playing upon my central nervoussystem like a video game would
do.
Are you following me?
Speaker 3 (22:39):
Is that right.
Speaker 4 (22:40):
Am I off on this, or is there something to that?
Speaker 3 (22:43):
No, I think that's right.
I was trying to think how youcould distinguish.
I'm sure there's a biologicalway you can distinguish that.
But I was thinking about thedifference between when we use
devices or electronics toconnect versus disconnect,
Because we do both with them.
We use them to disconnect fromthe real world, but then we also
use them to stay connected topeople in ways that are new to
(23:04):
it recently.
New to us, I guess, as aspecies.
But I think that when we leaveout the relational component to
anything we're not, it's kind oflike having an artificial
sweetener instead of sugar,right, it's kind of like it kind
of tricks your brain intothinking you're getting
something that you're really notgetting.
And so that's kind of the way Ifeel about video games and
being on teams and that kind ofthing, and virtually I'm sure
(23:26):
there is some aspect of that tofeel like you belong and you're
accomplishing something, butit's kind of an artificial piece
of it instead of an authenticrelationship.
Speaker 4 (23:36):
That makes sense.
It would seem like that boredomis a byproduct where we become
very dependent on thatstimulation.
So when we're not getting thatstimulation, just by default the
person is bored.
But adventure seems to besomething that is a good remedy
for boredom.
And I don't know if I've sharedthis with the group here before
(23:57):
on podcast, but there was a dayone of the groups of young boys
out here at Boys Ranch werehaving a really bad day and one
of our co-workers out herestopped by the house and checked
on them and the people on dutysaid, well, this is a bad day.
You might want to come backtomorrow.
(24:18):
And he says well, I'm goingover to the other side of the
highway to catalog insects.
Would you mind if I took theboys with me?
And the staff on duty says,well, you know, that's really
nice of you, but I just don'tthink it would possibly work.
And he says give me, let mejust have a try at it.
(24:38):
So these boys that were havinga bad day okay, they were very
dysregulated got in the truck,they went over the other side of
the road and they were overthere for hours and didn't want
to come back, and they were justquiet and intense and they were
looking for different bugs andfiguring out from the guide what
(24:59):
kind they were.
And they were on an adventure.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
Well, it has been an adventure with you all these
last several weeks exploring themodel of leadership and service
.
Remember you might have to loanout your frontal lobes today.
Just make sure you remember toget them back.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
Thank you for listening to Brain Based
Parenting.
We hope you enjoyed this show.
If you would like moreinformation about Cal Farley's
Boys Ranch, are interested inemployment, would like
information about placing yourchild, or would like to help us
help children by donating to ourmission, please visit
(25:35):
calfarleyorg.
You can find us on all socialmedia platforms by searching for
Cal Farley's.
Thank you for spending yourtime with us and have a blessed
day.
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