August 26, 2025 • 20 mins
This episode explores the concept of power in parent-child relationships and how understanding power dynamics can improve interactions with children, especially during crisis moments. We discuss why self-control is the greatest form of power and how sharing power appropriately with children helps them develop into successful adults.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to Brain Based Parenting, the Boys Ranch
podcast for families.
We all know how hard being aparent is, and sometimes it
feels like there are no goodanswers to the difficult
questions families have whentheir kids are struggling.
Our goal each week will be totry and answer some of those
tough questions, utilizing theknowledge, experience and
(00:26):
professional training CalFarley's Boys Ranch has to offer
.
Now here is your host, calFarley's Staff Development
Coordinator, joshua Sprott.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Welcome back everyone and thank you again for joining
us as we power through the nextpart of our model of leadership
and service.
You guessed it we're talkingabout power today.
I'm again joined by MichelleMikedder, our Chief Programs
Officer.
Hello.
Suzanne Wright, our VicePresident of Training and
Intervention, good afternoon.
And Mike Wilhelm, our SeniorChaplain, howdy Again.
We're going to start by doingour question of the day.
(00:57):
Are you guys ready for today'sthought-provoking question?
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Bring it on All right .
Today's question is if youcould have any superpower, what
would it be?
And, more importantly, wouldyou use your power for good and
be a hero, or would you use itfor evil and be a villain?
So I'm a huge Superman fan.
He's like my favorite favorite.
I love that he can fly, and Ithink I mean you guys may
(01:22):
remember the other day when Italked about I was scared of
heights, so this might come as asurprise, but I would love to
fly.
I'd like to say I'd be a hero.
I'm not really sure what youcan do heroically flying.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Maybe I'd save some cats from trees or something
like that I think I might likefor my superpower to be able to
be in two places at once.
It might be that I couldaccomplish more, or maybe I
could carve more.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
relaxation or enjoyment Might be a good way
for you to establish a goodalibi too.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Oh well, I haven't thought of that.
Now you make me sound like avillain.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
What about Michelle?
Speaker 5 (02:02):
I mean it's hard to pick one better than flying.
Speaker 4 (02:04):
I don't want to be redundant.
Speaker 5 (02:06):
But yeah, flying is probably.
I don't want to be, I don'twant invisibility capabilities,
but I would like to be able tofly.
And then I always think I wouldlike to be a villain, because I
feel like when you do, when youexperience the opposite,
hopefully of yourself, it helpsyou be a more balanced person.
And so it would come back tosomething good, I would hope.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
A redemption arc?
Speaker 3 (02:28):
Yes, You're really just the only honest person.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
So you and Josh are not afraid of heights, evidently
.
Speaker 5 (02:35):
I don't know if we can fly, I mean it looks really
cool to fly, but I mean, you'rereally up there, but if you
could fly, then you would.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Yeah, that's what I do.
Speaker 5 (02:43):
just two inches off, the ground Skim along low.
Speaker 4 (02:46):
Well, I used to watch all the super Marvel movies
with my grandson, so I've lookedat all the different powers and
I just would like the powerthat they all have.
They never get tired, yeah.
I mean like, whatever it isthey're doing, it's like they
(03:06):
keep going and going after it,and it's like they never get
tired and I would I'd be goodwith that yeah, so would you be,
I'd use it for.
Unlike Michelle, I would use itfor good.
Speaker 5 (03:15):
So today we are talking about power as part of
the model of leadership andservice.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
So what do we mean when we're talking about power,
model of leadership and service.
So what do we mean when we'retalking about power?
Speaker 5 (03:24):
You know, when I think about power, I think about
the ability to be in control ofyourself, and I strive to be
the same person regardless ofwhere I am, who I'm, with what
I'm doing, so that I'm aconsistent version of myself, I
guess.
And so I feel like power isyour ability to take in the
surroundings whatever is goingon at that time and be who you
(03:45):
are.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
Boy, I appreciate that this is a hard question and
it looks like a very simplequestion, but if you take the
bait, you assume that it'sexerting power over others.
It seems like that's what wetend to think that it's about,
but self-control being able tocontrol yourself, I would say
was the greatest power.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
Yes, I think that we want kids to have that
self-control because it leads tothem being successful,
productive citizens right thatif I can control myself, I can
live freely in our society, Ican follow the rules of society,
I can build relationships withother people.
And people that aren't able toexhibit that internal
(04:31):
self-control tend to strugglemuch more throughout their lives
.
Speaker 5 (04:35):
Yeah, and with relationships right so it's the
difference between beingreactive in different situations
and relationships or beingintentional with your choices
and what you're able to do.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
So in my experience, power is the hardest part of the
model of leadership and servicefor adults to help kids with.
Why do you think that that is?
Speaker 3 (04:53):
I think it's very hard for adults to share power
with children.
We talked about this in aprevious episode, that when,
especially when childrenmisbehave, we want to exert
control to make them behave, andso, especially as kids get
older and they have moreindependence, we need to start,
(05:14):
you know, building arelationship with them where we
can share that power and thenhelp them develop and learn to
use it responsibly.
Speaker 4 (05:25):
Yeah, it seems like as we grow as adults at least
it's been my experience prideand ego it all grows.
And a child, those that aredependent on you we will tend to
take offense and have a greatneed to be authoritarian and
exert control over our childrenespecially, especially.
(05:48):
But we kind of feel frustratedeven towards others in our, our
lives besides our children.
But there's this need tocontrol people that comes from
pride or comes from our ego yeah, does fear play into that at
all?
Speaker 5 (06:01):
yeah, I think it definitely does, and I think
that's one thing that I noticed.
You know, it seems like wenotice it in other people, but
to notice it in myself, when I'mtrying to be more controlling
with other people, it's usuallybecause I'm feeling out of
control and I'm worried aboutsomething and scared about
something and trying to preventsomething from happening when I
(06:22):
feel like I'm afraid that Idon't have the answers or it is
going to get out of control.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
That's when I try and over-control situations and it
never turns out the way that Iwant it to.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
I think all parents would agree with you.
We've all been there.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
So what about power differential?
What does power differentialmean?
Speaker 5 (06:40):
You know, I think talking more about feeling like
who has the power.
So it could be an authorityfigure, it could be an adult
over a child, it could bedifferent situations, the age of
a person, the title of a person, that kind of thing, and so in
any given relationship there arepower differentials.
We don't often talk about that,but they greatly influence how
(07:02):
we feel about the interactions,how much they affect us, how
concerned we are based on thosepower differentials.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
So, as parents, we typically are the ones with the
larger power differential rightwe exert that power.
Why is this concept importantto understand when working with
kids when they're in crisis?
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Well, I think it's easy for us to again grab that
control and we have all thepower.
I think it's easy for us toagain grab that control and we
(07:50):
have all the power, and thenthey feel more powerless.
Or they feel they haveconfident in myself to make my
own decisions, or I don't feellike my decisions are good or
worthy, or maybe that they meetyour expectations.
Speaker 5 (07:57):
So then you have to constantly ask for what you
should do, how it should be done, and reassurance yeah, because
you don't trust that you can doit yourself.
Speaker 4 (08:05):
And don't you think that it delays character
formation in a child, moraldevelopment?
If we're operating out of thatneed for power, exerting power
over the child, well, they'reprobably generating a fear
response.
So then any kind of compliancethat you get is not going to be
based out of a child learning todo the right thing because they
(08:25):
want to do the right thing.
It's because of a childlearning to do the right thing
because they want to do theright thing.
It's because right now I haveto do the right thing.
I'm sensing fear and I need todo the right thing to be okay
right now.
So it seems to me like itreally gets in the way of
character development and moralformation.
Wouldn't you say yeah?
Speaker 3 (08:43):
I agree, and I think there's a difference between
short and long-term goals forchildren, right?
So for a lot of parents, theshort-term goal is compliance in
the moment.
Right, I want you to behave.
But when we look at thatlong-term goal children are, you
know, they're going to grow upand be adults for much longer in
their life than they werechildren, and so as we prepare
(09:06):
them for adulthood, sometimesour goals look very different.
Right, compliance means I wantyou to obey all of my rules
while you're under my roof, butmy long-term goal is for that
child to make good decisionsindependent of me for the rest
of their life, you know, andthat's much, a much longer time
(09:28):
period than the short amount oftime that they're under my roof.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
So it seems like it comes down to safety in a lot of
ways, like we want kids to feelsafer and maybe minimize that
power differential.
So what are some ways that youguys would advise people to
decrease your power differentialwhen working with kids,
especially when they're in astate of crisis?
Speaker 5 (09:47):
Yeah, I think we forget sometimes.
I think we forget how powerfulwe look to children and so
sometimes we don't, becausethey're mad.
They might be mad, they mightbe yelling, they might be very
physical in how they'redisplaying their you know, their
fear, and so we think we haveto be loud, we have to be big,
we have to do these things andwe don't realize how threatening
we seem to them.
(10:08):
And so to be mindful of ourpresence and how we can be
calming or we can make it worseinto you know, be aware of space
, what kind of, how close youare, how far away you are,
sometimes that can be calming.
To be closer to a child,sometimes that can be more
threatening to a child.
And then to lower ourselveswe're not quite as big to make
(10:28):
ourselves smaller, for ourvoices to be less loud, to be
softer, to be slower in ouractions and our words, to try to
slow down the whole situation,Because anytime you're scared or
feel under threat, everythingis exaggerated already, and so
the more we can calm down, themore the situation can calm down
(10:49):
.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Yeah, I'm six foot three and I don't really think
about that very often.
And I remember when I used toprocess with kids, it was weird
that they wouldn't want to talkto me initially and they'd like
back up for me and back up forme, and then once someone kind
of pointed out how it was kindof towering over them, I would
just go in, kind of sit down ina chair and make sure that I was
lower than they were when wewere processing and it was
(11:12):
amazing.
Just that subtle differencewould allow them to open up and
talk to me a lot more.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
I think one of the most important things you can do
is to give a child choice.
Right, as an adult, I don'twant you to make all my choices
for me, you know.
Right, as an adult, I don'twant you to make all my choices
for me.
You know, I start to feelrestricted and threatened if you
dictate everything to me, andso I want to have a choice and I
want to have voice.
And kids are the same way.
Right, the needs that kids haveare the same as adults, and so
(11:40):
whenever you are in aconversation with it, with a
child, if you can give choice,you will probably have a better
outcome Again, if you engagethem in the problem solving
rather than dictating thesolution to them.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
But you know you had mentioned both Michelle and
Suzanne about self-awareness inone way or another and found
that to be so important.
And I can think about timesthat I have really blown it with
a kid and where not only am Inot aware of a power
differential, but I take thebait and I get into a power
struggle.
And one of my earlier yearshere at Boys Ranch I remember
(12:20):
there was a young man who didn'tmeet the behavior
qualifications that week to playin the praise band by the
system we had in place andthat's a whole other discussion
if the system was any good ornot, which I don't think it was.
At any rate, he comes in and hewas already frustrated,
(12:42):
anticipating that he didn't meetthe behavior qualifications to
play that week.
And he came in and grabbed hisguitar and was going to and I
stopped him and I said, hey,you're not going to be able to
play tonight.
And he started to get frustratedand things started to escalate
(13:02):
and I was getting hijacked and Isaid, well, I did the real
preacherly thing.
I said, hey, I'm going to praywith you.
And then his voice was evenlouder, heplain, that he doesn't
(13:24):
want to pray and then does itwith an elevated voice, even
though mine's even over top ofhis now.
So it just went poorly thewhole thing.
And so there's an easy.
It's easy to get drawn into apower struggle and nothing good
comes from it.
Nothing good comes from it.
Nothing good comes from it, andI'm embarrassed to tell stories
(13:47):
like that.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
Well and it will not help your relationship with a
child.
It never again.
Nothing good comes from it, butusually it can damage a
relationship.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
That's one of the things I think about.
We, as the adults, have so muchpower, we can win any battle.
That's one of the things Ithink about.
We, as the adults, have so muchpower, we can win any battle.
But when we win the battle,sometimes we lose the war
because that relationship isjust completely destroyed.
Speaker 4 (14:18):
Yeah, good idea, huge breakthrough, to be able to
start to be aware of that asit's coming on and then just to
take a couple deep breaths andto pray.
Lord, help me not to blow itright now, because it's so
tempting to take the bait and beoffended and get really
(14:40):
principled about I'm the adultand you're the kid, and I'm
right and you're wrong, and howdare you challenge me and it
just nothing good comes fromthat.
Speaker 3 (14:49):
No, but I think we could each give examples
professionally where we've beenpulled into that, and probably
personally as well.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Yeah, so we believe that the underlying root of
anger and aggression is a senseof fear or a feeling of a lack
of power.
So if we understand that angerand aggression stem from lack of
power, what can we do to helpkids be less angry and
aggressive?
Speaker 3 (15:10):
I think anytime we are faced with behavior that
puzzles us or frustrates us, thefirst thing we have to do is to
be curious about what'smotivating that behavior.
And, as you said, very often itis fear or a lack of power,
feeling powerless.
And we respond very differentlyto people who are fearful or
(15:34):
who feel powerless than we dopeople who are angry right,
typically, anger draws an angryresponse, and so if we're
curious and we look below thesurface of the water to see what
really is motivating that anger, we'll respond differently to
the core causes of that.
Speaker 5 (15:54):
You know, and I love the idea, that anger is a
self-protection mechanism, right, and so then, if you look at it
as it's a way to protectyourself and when people are
being angry, it's an attempt tokeep themselves safe, and so it
is hard for us.
With younger children who arecrying or throwing a tantrum, we
can have a little bit morepatience, but then when you have
a teenager or someone a littlebit older who's angry and
(16:16):
cussing and yelling, we don'tsee.
Typically we don't look behindthat to see what's really going
on and to treat that, not meetthat with anger, but with calm
and safety, and so I do thinkthat's a hard one.
Speaker 4 (16:30):
This week is Palm Sunday.
This Sunday, I think there'ssuch a powerful message and a
pattern in Palm Sunday thatreally speaks a word to this,
and that is Jesus.
At this point is a marked mangoing into Jerusalem, doesn't
look particularly safe.
He comes in on a donkey.
(16:51):
That in itself is a bit of apolitical statement.
So he's coming in.
It's no secret, when he'scoming into town he could have
run, which I think the discipleswere wishing he would do, or he
could have come in with force,or he could have come in with
flattery, but he came in intruth and love.
(17:13):
And I always think, lord, helpme be that to the child today,
to say what needs to be said inlove and to not have to fight,
to not have to flee, to not haveto flatter yeah, yeah, you know
to not have to flatter.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (17:25):
Yeah, you know, I think that changes everything If
you go into a discussion or aconversation with anyone with a
kid, with an adult, where youare open to the possibility of
where the discussion can go,instead of going in thinking
you're going to tell themsomething or get them to a
certain answer or get them to acertain insight.
But it clears the way to havean authentic discussion and it
(17:49):
usually goes somewhere you wouldnever have expected it to and
if you would have tried tocontrol it or steer it, you
wouldn't have gotten to whereyou needed to go.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
So here's a question for you guys that I really
struggle with.
You know, in the short run,sometimes it feels like we're
helping kids by doing things forthem.
But in the long run, how doesdoing things for them rob them
of their power?
Speaker 3 (18:09):
This made me think of my oldest child, when she was
learning to tie her shoes, andit was so frustrating because it
took so much longer.
You know, we'd try to get readyto leave the house and she'd be
tying her shoes and I think, oh, I could just do that for her
and we could get on the road,you know.
And then and then I had toremind myself if she never
(18:31):
learns to tie those shoes on herown, do I want to be tying
those?
shoes when she's you know, 12 or15 or you know, and I'm proud
to say, that at 27 years old shecan tie her own shoes, right.
You know?
But but that was a hardship forme, you know, when she was
little was it's so much fasterif I could just do this myself,
(18:52):
or I could do it better, Right,but you again, it's the
difference between looking atthat short-term goal and the
long-term goal.
If your short-term goal is justget it done so we can get on to
the next event, but thelong-term goal is how do I want
my child to function as an adult, then you realize that helping
(19:14):
them learn to do it themselvesis vitally important.
Speaker 5 (19:20):
We are so rushed as a society, right, we're always
moving, trying to get to thenext thing, and I think so much
of that has been lost, like notto take the time to teach my
daughter how to put gas in thecar, because I just need to get
gas in the car and get going.
You know, and so there's so manythings if you're not actually
thinking about what's the endgame.
What do we want to accomplishhere that you will do it
(19:40):
yourself, take control of it,get it moving faster and not
realize you're missing thoseopportunities?
Speaker 4 (19:46):
And allow for the messiness of the mistakes that
can and will happen, right?
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Yes, Well, thank you Suzanne, michelle and Mike for
joining us today, and thank youguys all out there in the
audience for joining us.
I hope you feel empowered totackle everything that comes
your way this week and rememberyou might have to loan out your
frontal lobes today.
Just make sure you remember tohit them back.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
Thank you for listening to Brain Based
Parenting.
We hope you enjoyed this show.
If you would like moreinformation about Cal Farley's
Boys Ranch, are interested inemployment, would like
information about placing yourchild, or would like to help us
help children by donating to ourmission, please visit
(20:30):
calfarleyorg.
You can find us on all socialmedia platforms by searching for
Calfarley's.
Thank you for spending yourtime with us and have a blessed
day.
Welcome to Brain Based Parenting, the Boys Ranch
podcast for families.
We all know how hard being aparent is, and sometimes it
feels like there are no goodanswers to the difficult
questions families have whentheir kids are struggling.
Our goal each week will be totry and answer some of those
tough questions, utilizing theknowledge, experience and
(00:26):
professional training CalFarley's Boys Ranch has to offer
.
Now here is your host, calFarley's Staff Development
Coordinator, joshua Sprott.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Welcome back everyone and thank you again for joining
us as we power through the nextpart of our model of leadership
and service.
You guessed it we're talkingabout power today.
I'm again joined by MichelleMikedder, our Chief Programs
Officer.
Hello.
Suzanne Wright, our VicePresident of Training and
Intervention, good afternoon.
And Mike Wilhelm, our SeniorChaplain, howdy Again.
We're going to start by doingour question of the day.
(00:57):
Are you guys ready for today'sthought-provoking question?
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Bring it on All right .
Today's question is if youcould have any superpower, what
would it be?
And, more importantly, wouldyou use your power for good and
be a hero, or would you use itfor evil and be a villain?
So I'm a huge Superman fan.
He's like my favorite favorite.
I love that he can fly, and Ithink I mean you guys may
(01:22):
remember the other day when Italked about I was scared of
heights, so this might come as asurprise, but I would love to
fly.
I'd like to say I'd be a hero.
I'm not really sure what youcan do heroically flying.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Maybe I'd save some cats from trees or something
like that I think I might likefor my superpower to be able to
be in two places at once.
It might be that I couldaccomplish more, or maybe I
could carve more.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
relaxation or enjoyment Might be a good way
for you to establish a goodalibi too.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Oh well, I haven't thought of that.
Now you make me sound like avillain.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
What about Michelle?
Speaker 5 (02:02):
I mean it's hard to pick one better than flying.
Speaker 4 (02:04):
I don't want to be redundant.
Speaker 5 (02:06):
But yeah, flying is probably.
I don't want to be, I don'twant invisibility capabilities,
but I would like to be able tofly.
And then I always think I wouldlike to be a villain, because I
feel like when you do, when youexperience the opposite,
hopefully of yourself, it helpsyou be a more balanced person.
And so it would come back tosomething good, I would hope.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
A redemption arc?
Speaker 3 (02:28):
Yes, You're really just the only honest person.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
So you and Josh are not afraid of heights, evidently
.
Speaker 5 (02:35):
I don't know if we can fly, I mean it looks really
cool to fly, but I mean, you'rereally up there, but if you
could fly, then you would.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Yeah, that's what I do.
Speaker 5 (02:43):
just two inches off, the ground Skim along low.
Speaker 4 (02:46):
Well, I used to watch all the super Marvel movies
with my grandson, so I've lookedat all the different powers and
I just would like the powerthat they all have.
They never get tired, yeah.
I mean like, whatever it isthey're doing, it's like they
(03:06):
keep going and going after it,and it's like they never get
tired and I would I'd be goodwith that yeah, so would you be,
I'd use it for.
Unlike Michelle, I would use itfor good.
Speaker 5 (03:15):
So today we are talking about power as part of
the model of leadership andservice.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
So what do we mean when we're talking about power,
model of leadership and service.
So what do we mean when we'retalking about power?
Speaker 5 (03:24):
You know, when I think about power, I think about
the ability to be in control ofyourself, and I strive to be
the same person regardless ofwhere I am, who I'm, with what
I'm doing, so that I'm aconsistent version of myself, I
guess.
And so I feel like power isyour ability to take in the
surroundings whatever is goingon at that time and be who you
(03:45):
are.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
Boy, I appreciate that this is a hard question and
it looks like a very simplequestion, but if you take the
bait, you assume that it'sexerting power over others.
It seems like that's what wetend to think that it's about,
but self-control being able tocontrol yourself, I would say
was the greatest power.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
Yes, I think that we want kids to have that
self-control because it leads tothem being successful,
productive citizens right thatif I can control myself, I can
live freely in our society, Ican follow the rules of society,
I can build relationships withother people.
And people that aren't able toexhibit that internal
(04:31):
self-control tend to strugglemuch more throughout their lives
.
Speaker 5 (04:35):
Yeah, and with relationships right so it's the
difference between beingreactive in different situations
and relationships or beingintentional with your choices
and what you're able to do.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
So in my experience, power is the hardest part of the
model of leadership and servicefor adults to help kids with.
Why do you think that that is?
Speaker 3 (04:53):
I think it's very hard for adults to share power
with children.
We talked about this in aprevious episode, that when,
especially when childrenmisbehave, we want to exert
control to make them behave, andso, especially as kids get
older and they have moreindependence, we need to start,
(05:14):
you know, building arelationship with them where we
can share that power and thenhelp them develop and learn to
use it responsibly.
Speaker 4 (05:25):
Yeah, it seems like as we grow as adults at least
it's been my experience prideand ego it all grows.
And a child, those that aredependent on you we will tend to
take offense and have a greatneed to be authoritarian and
exert control over our childrenespecially, especially.
(05:48):
But we kind of feel frustratedeven towards others in our, our
lives besides our children.
But there's this need tocontrol people that comes from
pride or comes from our ego yeah, does fear play into that at
all?
Speaker 5 (06:01):
yeah, I think it definitely does, and I think
that's one thing that I noticed.
You know, it seems like wenotice it in other people, but
to notice it in myself, when I'mtrying to be more controlling
with other people, it's usuallybecause I'm feeling out of
control and I'm worried aboutsomething and scared about
something and trying to preventsomething from happening when I
(06:22):
feel like I'm afraid that Idon't have the answers or it is
going to get out of control.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
That's when I try and over-control situations and it
never turns out the way that Iwant it to.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
I think all parents would agree with you.
We've all been there.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
So what about power differential?
What does power differentialmean?
Speaker 5 (06:40):
You know, I think talking more about feeling like
who has the power.
So it could be an authorityfigure, it could be an adult
over a child, it could bedifferent situations, the age of
a person, the title of a person, that kind of thing, and so in
any given relationship there arepower differentials.
We don't often talk about that,but they greatly influence how
(07:02):
we feel about the interactions,how much they affect us, how
concerned we are based on thosepower differentials.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
So, as parents, we typically are the ones with the
larger power differential rightwe exert that power.
Why is this concept importantto understand when working with
kids when they're in crisis?
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Well, I think it's easy for us to again grab that
control and we have all thepower.
I think it's easy for us toagain grab that control and we
(07:50):
have all the power, and thenthey feel more powerless.
Or they feel they haveconfident in myself to make my
own decisions, or I don't feellike my decisions are good or
worthy, or maybe that they meetyour expectations.
Speaker 5 (07:57):
So then you have to constantly ask for what you
should do, how it should be done, and reassurance yeah, because
you don't trust that you can doit yourself.
Speaker 4 (08:05):
And don't you think that it delays character
formation in a child, moraldevelopment?
If we're operating out of thatneed for power, exerting power
over the child, well, they'reprobably generating a fear
response.
So then any kind of compliancethat you get is not going to be
based out of a child learning todo the right thing because they
(08:25):
want to do the right thing.
It's because of a childlearning to do the right thing
because they want to do theright thing.
It's because right now I haveto do the right thing.
I'm sensing fear and I need todo the right thing to be okay
right now.
So it seems to me like itreally gets in the way of
character development and moralformation.
Wouldn't you say yeah?
Speaker 3 (08:43):
I agree, and I think there's a difference between
short and long-term goals forchildren, right?
So for a lot of parents, theshort-term goal is compliance in
the moment.
Right, I want you to behave.
But when we look at thatlong-term goal children are, you
know, they're going to grow upand be adults for much longer in
their life than they werechildren, and so as we prepare
(09:06):
them for adulthood, sometimesour goals look very different.
Right, compliance means I wantyou to obey all of my rules
while you're under my roof, butmy long-term goal is for that
child to make good decisionsindependent of me for the rest
of their life, you know, andthat's much, a much longer time
(09:28):
period than the short amount oftime that they're under my roof.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
So it seems like it comes down to safety in a lot of
ways, like we want kids to feelsafer and maybe minimize that
power differential.
So what are some ways that youguys would advise people to
decrease your power differentialwhen working with kids,
especially when they're in astate of crisis?
Speaker 5 (09:47):
Yeah, I think we forget sometimes.
I think we forget how powerfulwe look to children and so
sometimes we don't, becausethey're mad.
They might be mad, they mightbe yelling, they might be very
physical in how they'redisplaying their you know, their
fear, and so we think we haveto be loud, we have to be big,
we have to do these things andwe don't realize how threatening
we seem to them.
(10:08):
And so to be mindful of ourpresence and how we can be
calming or we can make it worseinto you know, be aware of space
, what kind of, how close youare, how far away you are,
sometimes that can be calming.
To be closer to a child,sometimes that can be more
threatening to a child.
And then to lower ourselveswe're not quite as big to make
(10:28):
ourselves smaller, for ourvoices to be less loud, to be
softer, to be slower in ouractions and our words, to try to
slow down the whole situation,Because anytime you're scared or
feel under threat, everythingis exaggerated already, and so
the more we can calm down, themore the situation can calm down
(10:49):
.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Yeah, I'm six foot three and I don't really think
about that very often.
And I remember when I used toprocess with kids, it was weird
that they wouldn't want to talkto me initially and they'd like
back up for me and back up forme, and then once someone kind
of pointed out how it was kindof towering over them, I would
just go in, kind of sit down ina chair and make sure that I was
lower than they were when wewere processing and it was
(11:12):
amazing.
Just that subtle differencewould allow them to open up and
talk to me a lot more.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
I think one of the most important things you can do
is to give a child choice.
Right, as an adult, I don'twant you to make all my choices
for me, you know.
Right, as an adult, I don'twant you to make all my choices
for me.
You know, I start to feelrestricted and threatened if you
dictate everything to me, andso I want to have a choice and I
want to have voice.
And kids are the same way.
Right, the needs that kids haveare the same as adults, and so
(11:40):
whenever you are in aconversation with it, with a
child, if you can give choice,you will probably have a better
outcome Again, if you engagethem in the problem solving
rather than dictating thesolution to them.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
But you know you had mentioned both Michelle and
Suzanne about self-awareness inone way or another and found
that to be so important.
And I can think about timesthat I have really blown it with
a kid and where not only am Inot aware of a power
differential, but I take thebait and I get into a power
struggle.
And one of my earlier yearshere at Boys Ranch I remember
(12:20):
there was a young man who didn'tmeet the behavior
qualifications that week to playin the praise band by the
system we had in place andthat's a whole other discussion
if the system was any good ornot, which I don't think it was.
At any rate, he comes in and hewas already frustrated,
(12:42):
anticipating that he didn't meetthe behavior qualifications to
play that week.
And he came in and grabbed hisguitar and was going to and I
stopped him and I said, hey,you're not going to be able to
play tonight.
And he started to get frustratedand things started to escalate
(13:02):
and I was getting hijacked and Isaid, well, I did the real
preacherly thing.
I said, hey, I'm going to praywith you.
And then his voice was evenlouder, heplain, that he doesn't
(13:24):
want to pray and then does itwith an elevated voice, even
though mine's even over top ofhis now.
So it just went poorly thewhole thing.
And so there's an easy.
It's easy to get drawn into apower struggle and nothing good
comes from it.
Nothing good comes from it.
Nothing good comes from it, andI'm embarrassed to tell stories
(13:47):
like that.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
Well and it will not help your relationship with a
child.
It never again.
Nothing good comes from it, butusually it can damage a
relationship.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
That's one of the things I think about.
We, as the adults, have so muchpower, we can win any battle.
That's one of the things Ithink about.
We, as the adults, have so muchpower, we can win any battle.
But when we win the battle,sometimes we lose the war
because that relationship isjust completely destroyed.
Speaker 4 (14:18):
Yeah, good idea, huge breakthrough, to be able to
start to be aware of that asit's coming on and then just to
take a couple deep breaths andto pray.
Lord, help me not to blow itright now, because it's so
tempting to take the bait and beoffended and get really
(14:40):
principled about I'm the adultand you're the kid, and I'm
right and you're wrong, and howdare you challenge me and it
just nothing good comes fromthat.
Speaker 3 (14:49):
No, but I think we could each give examples
professionally where we've beenpulled into that, and probably
personally as well.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Yeah, so we believe that the underlying root of
anger and aggression is a senseof fear or a feeling of a lack
of power.
So if we understand that angerand aggression stem from lack of
power, what can we do to helpkids be less angry and
aggressive?
Speaker 3 (15:10):
I think anytime we are faced with behavior that
puzzles us or frustrates us, thefirst thing we have to do is to
be curious about what'smotivating that behavior.
And, as you said, very often itis fear or a lack of power,
feeling powerless.
And we respond very differentlyto people who are fearful or
(15:34):
who feel powerless than we dopeople who are angry right,
typically, anger draws an angryresponse, and so if we're
curious and we look below thesurface of the water to see what
really is motivating that anger, we'll respond differently to
the core causes of that.
Speaker 5 (15:54):
You know, and I love the idea, that anger is a
self-protection mechanism, right, and so then, if you look at it
as it's a way to protectyourself and when people are
being angry, it's an attempt tokeep themselves safe, and so it
is hard for us.
With younger children who arecrying or throwing a tantrum, we
can have a little bit morepatience, but then when you have
a teenager or someone a littlebit older who's angry and
(16:16):
cussing and yelling, we don'tsee.
Typically we don't look behindthat to see what's really going
on and to treat that, not meetthat with anger, but with calm
and safety, and so I do thinkthat's a hard one.
Speaker 4 (16:30):
This week is Palm Sunday.
This Sunday, I think there'ssuch a powerful message and a
pattern in Palm Sunday thatreally speaks a word to this,
and that is Jesus.
At this point is a marked mangoing into Jerusalem, doesn't
look particularly safe.
He comes in on a donkey.
(16:51):
That in itself is a bit of apolitical statement.
So he's coming in.
It's no secret, when he'scoming into town he could have
run, which I think the discipleswere wishing he would do, or he
could have come in with force,or he could have come in with
flattery, but he came in intruth and love.
(17:13):
And I always think, lord, helpme be that to the child today,
to say what needs to be said inlove and to not have to fight,
to not have to flee, to not haveto flatter yeah, yeah, you know
to not have to flatter.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (17:25):
Yeah, you know, I think that changes everything If
you go into a discussion or aconversation with anyone with a
kid, with an adult, where youare open to the possibility of
where the discussion can go,instead of going in thinking
you're going to tell themsomething or get them to a
certain answer or get them to acertain insight.
But it clears the way to havean authentic discussion and it
(17:49):
usually goes somewhere you wouldnever have expected it to and
if you would have tried tocontrol it or steer it, you
wouldn't have gotten to whereyou needed to go.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
So here's a question for you guys that I really
struggle with.
You know, in the short run,sometimes it feels like we're
helping kids by doing things forthem.
But in the long run, how doesdoing things for them rob them
of their power?
Speaker 3 (18:09):
This made me think of my oldest child, when she was
learning to tie her shoes, andit was so frustrating because it
took so much longer.
You know, we'd try to get readyto leave the house and she'd be
tying her shoes and I think, oh, I could just do that for her
and we could get on the road,you know.
And then and then I had toremind myself if she never
(18:31):
learns to tie those shoes on herown, do I want to be tying
those?
shoes when she's you know, 12 or15 or you know, and I'm proud
to say, that at 27 years old shecan tie her own shoes, right.
You know?
But but that was a hardship forme, you know, when she was
little was it's so much fasterif I could just do this myself,
(18:52):
or I could do it better, Right,but you again, it's the
difference between looking atthat short-term goal and the
long-term goal.
If your short-term goal is justget it done so we can get on to
the next event, but thelong-term goal is how do I want
my child to function as an adult, then you realize that helping
(19:14):
them learn to do it themselvesis vitally important.
Speaker 5 (19:20):
We are so rushed as a society, right, we're always
moving, trying to get to thenext thing, and I think so much
of that has been lost, like notto take the time to teach my
daughter how to put gas in thecar, because I just need to get
gas in the car and get going.
You know, and so there's so manythings if you're not actually
thinking about what's the endgame.
What do we want to accomplishhere that you will do it
(19:40):
yourself, take control of it,get it moving faster and not
realize you're missing thoseopportunities?
Speaker 4 (19:46):
And allow for the messiness of the mistakes that
can and will happen, right?
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Yes, Well, thank you Suzanne, michelle and Mike for
joining us today, and thank youguys all out there in the
audience for joining us.
I hope you feel empowered totackle everything that comes
your way this week and rememberyou might have to loan out your
frontal lobes today.
Just make sure you remember tohit them back.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
Thank you for listening to Brain Based
Parenting.
We hope you enjoyed this show.
If you would like moreinformation about Cal Farley's
Boys Ranch, are interested inemployment, would like
information about placing yourchild, or would like to help us
help children by donating to ourmission, please visit
(20:30):
calfarleyorg.
You can find us on all socialmedia platforms by searching for
Calfarley's.
Thank you for spending yourtime with us and have a blessed
day.
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