September 30, 2025 • 42 mins
The path to raising capable, resilient adults is paved with skinned knees, spilled milk, and valuable life lessons. But for many modern parents, the urge to protect our children from every discomfort has created a dangerous parenting trend: lawnmower parenting.
This episode dives deep into what happens when we mow down every obstacle in our children's paths. Our expert panel explores how cultural pressures, fear of judgment, and our own anxieties drive us to overprotect our kids. They share compelling insights about how this seemingly supportive behavior actually robs children of crucial developmental opportunities.
The panel offers practical guidance for parents recognizing these tendencies in themselves. We provide relatable strategies for stepping back while maintaining appropriate support. You'll learn how to reframe failure as a teaching opportunity, identify age-appropriate struggles, and parent with a vision extending far beyond childhood.
Whether you're already working to balance protection with preparation or just realizing you might be clearing too many obstacles, this episode provides the encouragement and practical steps needed to raise children who can navigate life's challenges with confidence and resilience. The message is clear: sometimes the greatest gift we can give our children is allowing them to struggle, fail, and discover their own strength.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_04 (00:00):
Welcome to Brain-Based Parenting, the Boys
Ranch podcast for families.
We all know how hard being aparent is, and sometimes it
feels like there are no goodanswers to the difficult
questions families have whentheir kids are struggling.
Our goal each week will be totry and answer some of those
tough questions utilizing theknowledge, experience, and
(00:21):
professional training CalFarley's Boys Ranch has to
offer.
Now here is your host, CalFarley Staff Development
Coordinator, Joshua Sprock.
SPEAKER_03 (00:30):
Hello and welcome.
Today we're going to talk aboutone of the most common parenting
traps, the lawnmower parenttrap, and how to avoid it.
SPEAKER_05 (00:36):
To do that today, I'm joined by Suzanne Wright,
Vice President of Training andIntervention.
SPEAKER_00 (00:41):
Judah Brown, Campus Life Supervisor.
Yeah, Mike Wilhelm, Director ofFaith-Based Outreach.
SPEAKER_03 (00:46):
All right.
So let's kick off with ourquestion of the day.
Since we're talking aboutlawnmower parenting, what is
your skill level andappreciation for lawnmowing?
SPEAKER_05 (00:54):
I think my skill level is fairly low, but I do
enjoy it.
And I think I'm pretty gooduntil I turn around and notice
how wavy my lines are.
So like if if someone is pickyabout that, they would not
appreciate my skill.
SPEAKER_02 (01:06):
It's been a while since I've mowed a yard.
So I have children to do thatand and pick up.
That was always something my dadwould always have me do.
And then as soon as I became aparent that could have children
that could push a lawnmower, itwas their turn.
So yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (01:22):
I enjoy lawn mowing and I like push mowing.
And uh when I was a kid, dad myfirst I think I learned the
first riding mower was a cubcadet.
Do you guys know what a cubcadet is?
Oh my.
Okay.
Yeah, that was that was a goldstandard.
But uh yeah, I like lawn mowing.
Now the deck mowers, those aretricky, and you know how the
deck mowers work.
(01:42):
We had a boys ranch kid once puta deck mower in one of the
lakes.
Oh yeah, he zigged when he shoothis eggs and put it right in the
lake.
SPEAKER_05 (01:50):
Josh, how about you?
Are you a good lawn mower?
SPEAKER_03 (01:52):
I don't know if I'm good, but I love to mow the
lawn.
SPEAKER_05 (01:54):
Really?
SPEAKER_03 (01:55):
Yes, it's my my relaxation thing.
I and at the end, my girlsalways make fun of me.
They say I have the classic dadstance where I'm surveying, have
my hands on my hips, staring atmy lawn, shaking my head, doing
all the, you know, how proud Iam of myself.
SPEAKER_05 (02:08):
Yeah, so you know, it's rhythmic, repetitive, and
patterned.
It works great for braindevelopment.
It's true.
SPEAKER_03 (02:14):
That's why I love it.
All right.
So today we're gonna be talkingabout a topic that relatively
new in the conversation, whichis called lawnmower parenting.
So, what would you say lawnmowerparenting is?
SPEAKER_05 (02:25):
I think it describes parents who want to remove any
and all obstacles from theirchild's path.
So anything that might slow themdown or cause them stress or
hinder their progress, parentsjust want to mow that down and
take it out of the way.
SPEAKER_00 (02:39):
Yeah, like boy, well said.
SPEAKER_02 (02:41):
Yeah, I think knocking down the all the issues
that may be problems for theirchildren is definitely the big
piece.
SPEAKER_03 (02:48):
So, how do you think this parenting style emerged and
what cultural or societalpressures have contributed to
its rise?
SPEAKER_02 (02:54):
You know, for me, I think it's a fear of allowing
your kids to fail.
It's also a view of how peopleare gonna view your children if
they do fail.
I think that that really kind ofbrings up a thought for me.
Like, I have quite a spanbetween my children.
I have an 18-year-old and atwo-year-old.
And with our 18-year-old beingour first, we did a lot of
things where we were afraid toallow him to make mistakes.
(03:16):
Or if he if he did fail atsomething, we were afraid what
people would think about us.
So we had to like take him outof those situations or remove
those situations from him.
He made the comment not long agothat we didn't we didn't allow
him to fail quite like he neededto.
He's like, it's okay for peopleto fail.
And I never really experiencedthat because you and mom always
(03:36):
removed those from me.
And I think, you know, he's inthe military now, so I think
that's one of those things wherehe put himself in a position
where he was going to experiencefailure and experience not
always the the easiest path.
SPEAKER_05 (03:49):
So I think one point you made is really important in
that we're concerned about howit reflects on us as parents.
And so I think a lot of parentsbend over backwards to ensure
their child's success so that itreflects well on them.
Look what a good parent I am.
And and it's an attempt to avoidjudgment if their child does
(04:09):
make a mistake.
SPEAKER_00 (04:10):
Boy, I couldn't agree more.
And I wonder too if there'sanother, there's even another
piece of this.
You you correct me if I'm if I'mchasing a rabbit here, but
there's there's also withyounger children, we could do
some lawnmower parenting wherewe're plowing away, clearing the
path where they're this theenvironment is so safe that
nothing, nothing bad could everhappen, even if that whatever
(04:34):
that bad thing, the the odds ofit are just astronomical, you
know, that it could happenanyway.
But to make the environment sosterile and safe because there's
a, I don't know, maybe it's 24-7cable news has a lot of
boogeyman put in our heads wherewe're kind of we're scared, we
want our kid to be safe.
That's all good stuff to wantour kids to be safe.
But to not let them experiencesome adversity.
(04:56):
Sometimes it might be like Judahand Suzanne said, it could be
living vicariously through ourkid and and it's how's this
going to reflect on me.
Sometimes it might be trying tooverprotect them, you know, for
some safety reasons just becauseour culture has uh we're really
caught up with that right now.
Does that make sense?
Do you think that's right?
SPEAKER_04 (05:14):
Yeah, I agree with you.
SPEAKER_03 (05:15):
Yeah, I remember something you said in an earlier
podcast on a completelydifferent topic, but said that
back when you were a kid thatthere was lots of commercials
during kids' programming forband-aids.
SPEAKER_00 (05:25):
Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (05:25):
And now you never see band-aid commercials on.
And I think it's because we wenever let kids get a a scrape or
a boo-boo.
SPEAKER_00 (05:32):
No, I'm not gonna uh I'm not gonna torture our
listening audience with uhsinging the jingle, but I still
know the band-aid commercialjingle because it was played so
often, and there were a lot ofband-aid commercials and
antiseptic commercials forscraped knees and things like
that.
You haven't seen those fordecades, right?
SPEAKER_01 (05:52):
True.
SPEAKER_03 (05:53):
What about the self-esteem movement of like the
eighties?
How do you think that playedinto the lawnmower parenting?
SPEAKER_05 (05:58):
You know, it's been it's been popular for a long
time that everybody gets aribbon, right?
Everybody gets an award,everybody gets a certificate.
And that the same thing, right?
We don't want to make anybodyfeel bad because they didn't
win.
And I've even seen it, you know,go to the other extreme that
that kids in a school weren'tgiven an award for doing well,
so that the children who didn'treceive award didn't feel bad.
(06:21):
And so that was, you know, thatwas a lawnmower, let's just mow
everything down.
And, you know, the statement wasthat by by showing recognition
for a child who did well, thatyour silence towards other
children was calling out thatthey didn't do well.
And that, you know, that's thesame.
Everybody gets a a trophy oreverybody gets an award.
(06:42):
And and I can remember a afamily member's child who went
to dance class and and part ofthe expense of dance class was a
trophy that the parents had tobuy every their own child a
trophy so that at the end ofdance class, all the kids got a
trophy and it just wow, wheredid all that come from?
You know, that that thingsweren't that way for a long
(07:03):
time.
SPEAKER_03 (07:03):
And I wonder what role like social media played
into this type this style ofparenting.
SPEAKER_02 (07:08):
Well, I think social media plays a large role because
you see the pictures of howeverything is great and grand.
And it just I think people feelthat they have to show
everything is terrific.
Their parenting is terrific.
Social media is really hard forme because of that, because I
feel like parenting is messy,and it's okay for it to be
messy.
(07:29):
My father-in-law is reallyinteresting because he jokes
about the thing that he lovedabout parenting was how messy it
was.
He's like, Those are the thingsyou remember is it not being
perfect, and that it it therewere those moments where you
lost your mind as a parent andyou yelled, but then you came
back and apologized and workedit out because those are what
your kids remember is when it'snot perfect and that you're
(07:52):
having fun in spite of being adifficult situation.
I think that the the idea of ummaking sure that everything is
perfect around us is a part ofthat social media piece.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (08:02):
In what ways might a parent's own upbringing or
unresolved anxiety influencetheir desire to overprotect
their child?
SPEAKER_05 (08:08):
I think if you were raised in an environment where
you didn't have a lot ofstructure and consistency and
you felt unprotected or unsafe,that that could lead you to want
to provide a very protective,safe, structured, consistent
environment for your child.
And as Mike said earlier, thosethings are important.
But there also has to be someopportunity to learn in that
(08:30):
environment.
And, you know, the old saying isyou learn more by failing than
you do by succeeding.
So we all have, you know, youhave to learn it somewhere.
You have to make a mistake, youhave to do it wrong.
I I think about children who areprotected their whole lives and
then they go out onto their own.
Now who's gonna protect them?
Right?
If if we don't let kids learn tostumble and pick themselves up
(08:51):
along the way, what happens whenthey finally reach adulthood and
they haven't had any practice atthat?
Now you now you have biggerstakes.
SPEAKER_01 (08:59):
Yes.
SPEAKER_05 (08:59):
Right now, now the the stumble or the fall is
further.
The mistake could be moresevere, right?
And so this is just a lot like alot of other things we teach our
kids, we give them small dosesof challenge as they grow up so
that by the time they're adults,they're prepared.
SPEAKER_00 (09:15):
And that that's a great question, Josh.
And I I I know probably thethree of you have seen this
before, where yeah, sometimesyou'll you'll meet somebody that
uh came from a hard place and uhno fault of theirs.
They just uh they grew up in ahome that maybe was out of
control due to addiction.
They survived that, lived totell the tale, and are committed
(09:36):
to never, ever, ever letanything like that happen again
to the point that that fear istheir main motivation rather
than than love being their theirmotivation, their parenting from
a position of fear.
And you become a, there you go,a lawnmower parent, right?
SPEAKER_03 (09:53):
What are some of the short and long-term effects of
shielding children fromdiscomfort and failure?
SPEAKER_02 (09:57):
You know, it's interesting when you were, Mike,
when you were making the commentabout kids not I and I guess I
go straight to kids not goingoutside as much anymore.
Because when I was a kid, if Iwas being really loud and
annoying to my mom, it was gooutside and go play outside,
right?
And uh and we would go outsideand I'd get in trouble, and then
I'd come back inside after I gotyelled at by somebody else.
(10:19):
And then that was kind of mychildhood.
Whereas I feel like nowadays,because outside is kind of
viewed as like this dangerousplace a little bit, that what we
do is we give our kids screensand we can keep an eye on them.
We think we can, but whatthey're able to do on the
screens is is kind of dangerousa little bit more.
So I I feel like the short-termgain of of some of that stuff is
(10:43):
you get to keep your eyes onthem, they're protected, but the
long term of what you may beallowing them to get into or not
allowing them to reallyexperience can be really
long-term issues.
SPEAKER_00 (10:54):
Yeah, I I I sat with uh a fella just the other day
who's who's an an an elderlygentleman who's going through
some very difficult chemo.
The chemo has given himneuropathy in his his feet and
his hands.
And he was talking about howhaving neuropathy, how dangerous
it can be because you could haveyour foot next to a heater not
realize my foot is blistered, uhhas become blistered, and how
(11:18):
important it is to be able toget that feedback from our our
environment that we live in.
Go out and build a tree house ora fort.
It's you're gonna get splinters,sometimes you're gonna fall.
You you're doing you got ahammer and some old rusty nails,
and sometimes a mom and dadmight need to take you to go get
a tetanus shot, but you'relearning a lot, you're getting a
(11:38):
lot of feedback from theenvironment.
I I think to not have any ofthat and to be so in such a
bubble where we would have to belosing a lot of resiliency
moving into adulthood.
Just some just some practicalgrowing up.
Does that sound do I soundancient when I say that,
Suzanne?
SPEAKER_05 (11:57):
No, I think I think you're dead on.
And and you know, you you hear alot of stories from people
roughly our age and older.
I I remember my my husband as asmall, like as a five-year-old,
that he and his brother would beat their grandparents' house who
lived out in the country, andthey would walk five miles to
the convenience store to buycigarettes for their grandpa and
walk back.
Okay, no, that's a little toomuch freedom in the outdoors,
(12:19):
right?
I mean, like we all hear thatand we think of everything that
could go wrong and who wasselling cigarettes to a
seven-year-old, and right, youknow, like that's so you have
there has to be a happy mediumin there somewhere, right?
From you know, allowing thingsthat are dangerous, but still
providing opportunities for themto grow.
SPEAKER_00 (12:39):
Boy, and I appreciate you talking about
that balance because I wouldwant listeners to know this is
not about saying, oh, if only itwere like the the good old days.
There are so many things abouttoday that are better than the
when I was a child, and we'vegotten much better at a lot of
things.
So not not putting it out thatthere that way at all.
But I do think we perhaps wehave made a misstep pushing too
(13:02):
far into lawnmower parenting anduh making just super safe
bubbles and protecting kids fromany kind of setback.
SPEAKER_02 (13:10):
Pendulum swinging, you know.
Pendulum effect.
We've gone a little bit too farto the other side.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (13:15):
I read a story years ago, and I wish I knew the name
of the Nobel Prize winner thatit was about.
I'm I'm sorry, I don't rememberthat.
But he said as a small child, hewas trying to pour himself a
glass of milk, and this is when,you know, the milk guy delivered
bottles of milk to your to yourfront step.
And so he had this glass bottlefull of milk and he tried to
pour himself milk and he spilledit.
(13:36):
And his mom comes in the kitchenand she says, Oh, you you
spilled the milk.
How do you think you shouldclean that up?
What do you think would be thebest to clean that up?
Do you think it would be a clothor maybe a sponge or a mop?
And so she problem solved withhim.
Which method do you think wouldbe appropriate?
Now, now that would not havebeen me.
Right?
You spilled the milk and youknow, and you're gonna make a
(13:57):
bigger mess cleaning it upyourself.
I'll just clean it up.
That that kind of would havebeen, but she gave him the
opportunity to think aboutchoices, and then she let him
clean it up.
And then they took an empty milkbottle and went out in the
backyard and filled it up withwater.
And she said, How could youpractice pouring that so the
next time you pour yourself aglass of milk, you wouldn't
(14:18):
spill it?
And so he practiced picking thebottle up in different ways,
holding it at different angles.
And that has always stuck withme as such an amazing example of
parenting that encourages andallows your child to think for
themselves, to problem solve.
And the mom didn't get allworked up over a glass of
spilled milk, right?
It's just such a great story.
(14:39):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (14:39):
That's a great story.
You know, and I heard someone,there was someone that was
working in a university settingthat was that just loves young
people.
So this wasn't uh griping aboutthough like the old days.
It was just someone that reallyloves old people, I mean young
people, and was working with aleadership group of of college
kids.
This was uh at their college,this was a a leadership group,
(15:02):
the cream of the cream.
And one of the things they hadto do was to decorate this area.
I don't know if it was at thelibrary or if it was some
building that, but they hadChristmas decorations to put out
and set this up.
So the leadership team just tookthe ball and set this up.
Well, they come back behind andcheck.
Well, like the tree just haddecorations just halfway up the
tree and it was left unfinished.
(15:24):
And there was just a whole bunchof things like that.
And I came back and asked theleader of the leaders of the
leadership group, what hey,what's going on?
Oh, well, we ran out of stuff.
Well, okay.
Okay, you see where this isgoing.
All right.
The then this their sponsor,whoever this was telling the
story, said, you know, they justthought you just they just
didn't know what to do next.
(15:46):
And that's what happens if we doa lot more parenting and and
kids don't learn to push throughsome adversity and f just in the
stakes aren't high decorating alobby for Christmas, right?
But how telling is that?
These were the top collegerecruits at this university and
they didn't know how to problemsolve and push through and
(16:07):
figure something out.
Like ask someone, are there moredecoration somewhere?
Or try to you know do make dowith what you had, but they just
stop.
SPEAKER_03 (16:15):
So how does lawnmower parenting impact a
child's ability to buildresilience, independence, and
healthy coping skills?
SPEAKER_05 (16:21):
You know, any of the skills that we try to teach our
children are learned throughrepetition, right?
So anytime you learn a newskill, when you learn when
you're a kid and you're learningto ride a bike, you have to do
it over and over and over andover, and you're building a new
pathway in your brain untileventually, voila, you can ride
a bike, right?
And then eventually you can takethose training wheels off.
(16:42):
But it's it's step by step andit's repetitive.
And so if we don't give our kidsthe opportunity to learn things
and to repeat that learningprocess, again, they're gonna
they're gonna get to adulthoodand they're gonna struggle.
They haven't had the opportunityto build resilience.
You can't, you can't buyresilience and you know it's not
a package that you could giveanother person.
(17:04):
You have to develop on your own.
And it takes, it takes time.
SPEAKER_02 (17:08):
I think learning to be comfortable with uncomfort,
right?
Teaching, teaching our childrenand teaching people that it's
okay to be uncomfortable andthat the more you're
uncomfortable, that'll bring theresults around.
SPEAKER_05 (17:20):
Years ago, my sister taught sixth grade and they were
struggling with a with a boy whowould never turn in his
homework.
And it ended up in a meetingbetween the principal and my
sister and the child's mother.
The mother said, Well, did youlook in his backpack for his
homework?
And my sister said, That'sthat's not my role, right?
That's his responsibility tolook in the backpack to take the
(17:43):
homework out and to turn it in.
And at the conclusion of thatmeeting, the principal told my
sister, the teacher, you look inhis backpack.
And I thought, in sixth grade.
So, so then how long do wecontinue that in middle school?
Are we gonna have, as teachers,look in the kids' backpack?
What's gonna happen in highschool?
What if you go to college?
Like that is never gonna teachthat kid to be self-sufficient
(18:06):
or independent.
SPEAKER_03 (18:07):
Yeah, it's funny that you say that.
I just heard a story recently onthe news that kids getting their
or kids, young adults gettingtheir first jobs, employers have
noticed an overwhelming majorityof them have their parents come
and sit in the lobby with themfor their first job interview.
I think that's kind of theculmination, being there doing
everything for them like that.
SPEAKER_05 (18:24):
Yeah, yeah.
Or or a parent calling in sickfor a child from their job.
SPEAKER_03 (18:29):
So how do you think this style of parenting can
unintentionally createentitlement or an unrealistic
view of success in kids?
And how might that show up laterin life?
SPEAKER_05 (18:38):
You know, I I just think it's gonna be, I don't
think there are a whole lot ofbosses who are gonna go for
that, right?
I mean, uh you know, askyourself as an employer, would
you hire somebody whose mom ordad filled out the job
application or or who aresitting in the, you know, the
foyer of a building waiting tosee how that goes, or or how
would you handle that if aparent called in, you know, my
(18:58):
son woke up sick today and can'tcome to work.
I I just I think a lot of thingsthat we do to quote unquote
protect our kids don't servethem well as they move into
adulthood and need to have themskill, those skills themselves.
Who I I can think ofrelationship problems that that
would cause conflict,relationships on the job, that
(19:19):
just seems like a recipe fordisaster to me.
SPEAKER_02 (19:21):
I mean, just the idea of entitlement, just I
can't, I can't really wrap mybrain around um expecting
someone to do that for you.
I think that's the kind of thecrazy part is that and and that
it kind of the situation getsworse in college a little bit
because they might make itthrough high school and they
might get to college, but itthere's gonna be at least one or
(19:43):
two professors that are gonnahave, you know, the phrase that
a lack of planning on your partdoes not constitute an emergency
on mine.
Yeah, because I had a few ofthose.
And and I think college is kindof that place where I had for
the first time where I had aprofessor say, you will not make
an A in my class.
And that was a new thoughtprocess because it was like, no,
(20:04):
everyone makes A's.
And I remember when I had aprofessor say that to me, it was
like, oh, okay.
Like, and then his his idea wasno A's are for the 1% of people
that really are going to put inthe work and extra work and hard
work, and it's gonna be, I cantell.
It really is interesting tothink almost how people get all
(20:24):
the way through their highschool and maybe even college
careers, all the way through andmaybe even to their first job
and not realize what realsuccess looks like.
SPEAKER_05 (20:33):
Well, and I think I think a lot of this boils down
to our goals for parenting.
Do we have short-term goals orlong-term goals?
Your influence over your child,them living in your home and you
parenting them as a child isabout 18 years, right?
They may live 70 years beyondthat, right?
And so if you are only parentingyour child to make things easy
(20:57):
till they're 18, you have a veryshort-term view of their life.
SPEAKER_00 (21:01):
That's a great point.
SPEAKER_05 (21:02):
And what you need to do is say, I am parenting this
child to enable them to leave myhome to be successful adults.
And so you want to parent withthat view of what's next, what
do those next 70 years looklike?
And are they prepared tofunction in those 70 years, not
just how can I make it easy thefirst 18.
SPEAKER_03 (21:21):
Why is failure a healthy and necessary part of
childhood development?
SPEAKER_02 (21:25):
You know, we see we see it out here on ranch quite
often.
And I've seen it just in my ownlife with my own kids, that when
a kid will play a sport and havea really hard time in the sport,
they quit.
And then the next sport comeson, they quit that.
And there's a lot ofinadequacies and insecurities
there.
And I think the importance asparents is instead of just
(21:45):
encouraging the kid to quit, butasking like the why question,
right?
Like, or what about this, right?
Instead of why.
What about this isuncomfortable?
What about this is somethingthat you want to quit?
Are you not feeling that you'regood enough in this area?
You know, it's interesting withmy my oldest daughter, she loves
to fail.
I I don't, and I say that kindof jokingly, like she wanted to
(22:06):
to try cheerleading.
And I was like, Are are yousure?
You sure you want to docheerleading?
You've never done it before,you've done dancing.
She's like, Absolutely, I wantto do cheerleading.
I was like, Okay.
And she did it and got on theteam.
I was like, Oh, okay, that'sthat's great.
And then she tried out for thebasketball team.
And I was like, Are you sureyou've never played basketball
and you have two left feet?
And I think for me, it was thisrealization that I didn't want
(22:30):
her to fail.
Because she was so, you know,she has things she's really good
at.
It's like, hey, continue to dothis, continue to try this.
And her comment was, Well, whywhy wouldn't I, why would I do
that?
I want to try everything.
I maybe this, maybe basketball'sthe thing.
I just never played it before.
I don't know.
Uh, maybe cheerleading is thething.
And I think that, you know, thethe mistakes we make with our
(22:52):
kids, right?
We learn it was like that ahamoment of like, oh, I really try
to keep her from experiencingtoo much.
Like, I don't want her to do toomuch, I don't want her to fail
in and things.
So it's that fear, and and it'sa part of like my own
development, I think, because mydad wanted me to just do, hey,
just do this and this, these twothings, and focus on those
(23:15):
things.
And the more you can focus onthose, that's good.
But I think her way of doing itis I like it.
It's creative, it's different,it's wanting to try and make
mistakes, and it's not like howI was ever taught to operate.
So it's cool to see her do itand then still do it well and
come across and like she'll madea basket and she's like, I made
(23:35):
a basket.
And I'm like, Well, what aboutthe seven you missed?
You know, and that's as aparent, right?
Like the focus becomes reallyterrible sometimes, yeah.
As opposed to being like proudof her for that.
And I had to go back and belike, I'm so sorry I tried to
talk you out of those things.
That man, I really goofed onthat.
SPEAKER_05 (23:54):
I think if you go back to that example of the
Nobel Prize winner's mother,right, who said, you know, you
failed when you poured the milkall over the kitchen floor.
So how do we clean it up?
But then how could you learn todo it better next time?
And then they practice, right?
And so that that failure is howyou learn again.
And and you know, so you learn,but you have support is the most
(24:15):
important thing.
When you fail, you have supportand encouragement.
Try again, take it a differentapproach, you know, and and
instead of us as parents going,let me tell you how you ought to
do it, which you know is ourapproach.
Like, you know, our cortexes arefully developed, we can see all
the pitfalls, but leading themto insight, how do you think you
could hold that that bottle sothat you could pour the water
(24:36):
and not spill it?
That encourages their cortexdevelopment.
SPEAKER_03 (24:40):
Yeah.
I think they also learned thatthey survived it.
SPEAKER_01 (24:44):
Yeah, it wasn't the end of the world.
They didn't die.
Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (24:48):
What they're just great teaching moments that
we're gonna short ourselves,aren't we?
If we if we if we do thelawnmower parenting, we protect
them from anything that mightmake us reflect back bad back on
us.
Really does become so importantdue to talking about how you
handled that situation with yourdaughter to let her do those
things she wasn't so good at.
Well, you know, what if ourchild wanted to do something and
(25:12):
they were the worst one inT-ball or whatever it is?
I mean the worst one on thefield at their best effort.
Can we be okay with that andsupport our child and have a
loving conversation and let themknow that your value is based on
who you are, not how good of a Tball player you are or whatever.
(25:32):
Because we can really one, wecan overprotect the kids, or we
if we let them get in thatsetting and we are so insecure,
worried about how this is gonnareflect on us, and our kid picks
up on a little bit of shame.
Now that's gonna be a killertoo, right?
Let's look at our child as ahuman being and not a human
doing and make sure that weaffirm their worth as based on
who they are, not on how theyperform, right?
(25:54):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (25:55):
And also were they having fun.
SPEAKER_00 (25:57):
Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (25:57):
Right.
Like we as parents, some gettimes get tripped up in
performance and accomplishmentwhen are the kids just have are
they having fun doing it?
Who cares if they're the worstonto the team?
Were they having fun?
Right.
And that's that's a big part ofit.
And you know, it's there is achance that they could care less
if they win or lose.
They're just out there withtheir friends, running around,
having a good time, and andmaybe we ought to pay more
(26:20):
attention to that.
SPEAKER_02 (26:21):
Yeah, and that's really what sports and
extracurriculars should beabout, is them having fun and
having a good time as opposed tothe focus on the performance.
SPEAKER_00 (26:30):
And we could take that as an opportunity to talk
about there is a difference inperformance if they're they have
a friend that is really good att-ball, and what the and you
could talk about that just verymatter-of-fact, so that we're
not trying to just beunrealistic and level the the
playing field and protect themfrom any of the sting of their
there's that's there's life,right?
Yeah, there's some differences,and Johnny, God's gifted him
(26:53):
with some athleticism.
And boy, is parents really spenda lot of time with t-ball, and
that's what they do, and we canwe can celebrate that and really
admire it, but still not baseour worth, child's worth, on
that.
So it seems like we're able totalk about the two things the
performance, let them experiencesome adversity, but always
reinforce their worth as a humanbeing.
SPEAKER_03 (27:15):
So, what kinds of age-appropriate struggle should
parents allow or even encouragetheir kids to face?
SPEAKER_05 (27:21):
I remember when when one of my daughters was learning
how to tie her shoe, and it justwas taking forever.
Like it just, you know, itdidn't click.
It just wasn't she didn't getit.
And and we worked and worked andworked on it.
And so when we were ready toleave the house, it was so much
quicker for me to tie our shoes.
And I would stop myself and say,Yeah, but do you want to be
tiring her shoes when she's 10or 15 or you know, 20?
(27:42):
So I would just kind of forcemyself to just sit and wait and
be patient.
And that, you know, that was ageappropriate.
And chores are a very ageappropriate learning.
And is it easier for us to pickit up, to wipe it up, to clean?
Yes, it is, but it's it's anecessary struggle to prepare
them for adult living later on.
SPEAKER_03 (28:02):
It's funny you said that I just heard someone on the
on another podcast talking aboutthat, that there are gonna be
struggles when you try and holdyour kids accountable to do
their chores.
And it is in the short termeasier to do it.
But if at some point in thefuture you decide you are gonna
hold them accountable, you havethat many years worth of fights
to deal with.
It's gonna compound itself.
So you're either gonna get thefights in little doses as you
(28:23):
go, or you're gonna getginormous doses of fights and
pushback um as they grow up.
So it's better just to do it inthe in the short term.
SPEAKER_02 (28:30):
It's funny you bring up tying shoes because my my
youngest daughter, um, she'ssix.
And when she was about four, Itried to teach her how to tie
her shoes and kept trying herthe way that I had learned how
to do it.
And one day she came home withthis whole new way of doing it.
And it was like, I was just likemesmerized by it.
Like, how in the world did youlearn to do it this way?
(28:50):
And she said, Oh, somebody indaycare does it this way.
And I was like, thought it wasreally because they tied the
knot and then they looped it inafterwards.
And I was thinking about it andI was like, you know, as a
parent, I kind of want to belike, no, no, don't do it that
way, right?
Like, no, no, do it the way Itaught you.
Because the way I taught youworks, right?
The way that she learned to doit was easier for her, and
someone else taught her to doit.
(29:12):
And it was kind of like I tookthat second of being like, Oh,
this is okay, all right, I'lltake it.
Yeah, it's hard, right?
Everything inside of me wants tobe like, no, this isn't the way
my dad taught me.
Oh, this is the way my momtaught me, right?
But for her to have kind of anew way of doing it that worked
for her, I like that.
SPEAKER_05 (29:28):
And she got to teach you.
Yes, she didn't.
She did really.
It is, it is kind of a cool way,yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (29:33):
So, full disclosure, I may be the Texberic lawnmower
parent.
If there's a picture in thedictionary, my it's probably me
next to it.
So, this last year, one of mydaughters left their Chromebook
at home, and we drive, you know,45 minutes to work every single
day.
We got about halfway to theranch and she realized she
forgot her Chromebook.
Everything in me wanted to turnaround and drive back to
Amarillo and get her Chromebookfor her.
(29:55):
Thankfully, my wife is not alawnmower parent, and she would
not let me turn around.
And that was the mostuncomfortable 20 minutes or
whatever.
And then that whole day I wasjust stress stressed that she
was gonna have a horrible day.
But in the end, she survived.
She, you know, had a hard day atschool.
But after that, she didn'tforget her Chromebook again the
rest of the year.
SPEAKER_05 (30:13):
Here with our kids on campus, we talk about natural
consequences.
And that's a naturalconsequence, right?
You don't wear your coat andyou're cold during the day.
You know, we're not gonna allowa consequence that would cause
harm.
SPEAKER_01 (30:24):
Right.
SPEAKER_05 (30:24):
But but struggling without a Chromebook is kind of
a natural consequence, right?
And how many more times did sheforget her Chromebook?
SPEAKER_03 (30:32):
Never again.
SPEAKER_05 (30:32):
Never again, right?
So that was an age-appropriatestruggle that she faced, knowing
that dad wouldn't save her.
SPEAKER_03 (30:40):
I really wanted to, though.
SPEAKER_05 (30:42):
We're proud of you, Josh.
SPEAKER_03 (30:44):
So how can giving kids predictable, moderate
levels of stress actuallyproduce resilience and emotional
growth?
SPEAKER_05 (30:50):
I think that's almost the definition of how you
produce resilience and emotionalgrowth is to give kids
predictable and moderate levelsof stress, right?
That you give them challengesthat are age appropriate,
they're able to accomplish.
Don't set a bar so high thatthey become discouraged, that
they can never accomplish thegoal.
But providing them with thosepredictable moderate levels of
(31:12):
stress is important, right?
A teacher who assigns homeworkgives a predictable moderate
level of stress, a a testingclass, a chore to do, right?
All of those things arepredictable, they're reasonable.
It can be stressful to take atest, but they prepare for it,
they take that test, they'veaccomplished that.
SPEAKER_00 (31:30):
I always marvel at the really gifted teachers that
are working with a lot ofdifferent kids because there are
no two kids the same.
And there's not a cookie cutterwith this or a simple formula,
is there?
No.
There are some kids that havesome just some struggles at
remembering to you know puttheir Chromebook in their
backpack.
It's just not as simple as justget over it and do it right, or
(31:54):
just you know, you just bark atthem and let them hang.
Some kids are gonna need somemore assistance, right?
So there's really an art toknowing the child and how much
what what is a how did you sayit again, that age appropriate
dose of stress, is that right,Suzanne?
Yes.
But age appropriate, you know,isn't it's not gonna be a every
12-year-old's not gonna have theexact require the exact same
(32:17):
parenting as as the next, right?
Some are gonna need some morehelp, some are ready to be let
go even more, would you say?
SPEAKER_05 (32:23):
Yeah, yeah, I think that's great.
You know, there's a book calledAtomic Habits, which has great
information in it, but one ofthe things it talks about is the
way to develop good habits is toset the stage for success,
right?
And so if if we're struggling toget out of the house on time in
the morning, the way to preparefor that is the night before.
So I check in with each child.
(32:44):
Is your outfit picked out fortomorrow?
Is it set out for tomorrow?
Are your backpacks loaded?
Is your Chromebook already inyour backpack?
Right.
Did we make the lunches thenight before and are they in the
fridge?
Like we are setting the stage tobe successful before we end up
in a situation where we're incrisis.
And I think some of that applieshere too.
We're not, you know, we're gonnahelp set the stage for kids to
(33:06):
be successful.
But if they if they f fail tofollow through, we're not gonna
take ownership of that for them,isn't is important.
SPEAKER_03 (33:14):
I heard someone say that for kids, you should if
there's anything that they cando, they should do.
If they can reasonably do it forthemselves, let them do it for
themselves.
If you need to come in and givethem a little coaching and
assistance here and there,that's fine.
But typically if they can do it,otherwise they'll just become
dependent on you to doeverything for them.
So how can failure be reframedas an opportunity when it
(33:35):
happens within the safe supportof a parent's care?
SPEAKER_05 (33:37):
You know, I think anytime there is a mistake or a
stumble, right?
Part of resolving that is tosay, how did that happen and
what could we do better nexttime?
Right.
So whatever that failure is, achild failed a class or they
struck out of little league orthey didn't make the basketball
team, right, is to to help thatchild, you know, what steps did
(33:59):
you take?
What do you think you could havedone differently?
What would you do next time ifyou had the opportunity?
And so again, it's not aboutblame or shame, but it's just
about helping them make goodchoices, learn from mistakes,
and try to do better the nexttime.
SPEAKER_02 (34:15):
I think viewing them as learning opportunities and
teaching opportunities.
Anytime a mistake happens, it'sa learning and a teaching
opportunity.
One of the reasons I loveworking here at Cal Farley's is
I remember at one point someonemaking the comment that it's
okay to make mistakes and wewant our staff to feel okay to
make mistakes.
And for me, that took kind of aburden off my shoulders because
(34:37):
there's that that fear of makingmistakes.
But the moment it was like, no,it's okay.
Like kids are a moving target,humans are moving targets.
You're not gonna be perfect, andit's okay to make mistakes.
It that helps.
SPEAKER_00 (34:49):
I was thinking about the venue of of sports, and I
guess we're such a sportsculture now, it's hard to hard
to not think that way with thisquestion, Josh has brought up.
We're gonna you mentioned,Judah, that there is this uh
tendency that of well thingsdon't go well.
I I'm I I'm out for football,but now I quit football.
And then I went out forbasketball and I quit that that
(35:10):
quitting.
And it kind of develops a rutthat will follow us throughout
life, right?
If we're if we're not careful.
But I appreciate that when Iwatch people that really seem to
have this right, those parentsor mentors, and there's just
this wonderful communicationgoing on, eyeball to eyeball,
heart to heart, always affirmingtheir their worth.
It's not based on if you missedthe layup at the end of the game
(35:31):
at the buzzer or made it.
It's not based on that.
It's about your worth.
I I'm proud of you because ofwho you are, not how you
perform.
We're not gonna quit.
We're not gonna quit basketball.
You made a commitment to thisseason, and those good parents
will well, unless there's ahealth reason or something
beyond the pale, no, we're gonnafollow through on the
commitment.
So there's a great chance toteach how do you push through
(35:52):
adversity, even if performanceisn't going the way that maybe
that that you would like.
And so there's a lot of chanceto, as uh as we parent to uh
these are great teaching things,right?
Whenever we hit diversity, saywithin a score.
SPEAKER_03 (36:05):
You mentioned sports.
I think it's also kind ofinteresting.
If you look at a baseball playerwho has the most hits in a
season, they're often lead theleague in strikeouts as well.
They swing at more things thananyone, they take more chances.
And because of that, they'regonna fail a lot, but also
they're gonna have a lot ofsuccess as well.
I think talking to kids aboutthat, you know, giving them some
real life examples like that canhelp the view of failure as
(36:25):
well.
So, what are some of the firststeps a parent can take if they
realize they've been mowing downobstacles for a child?
SPEAKER_05 (36:31):
Josh has a lawnmower pair.
SPEAKER_00 (36:33):
Yeah, tell us, Josh.
SPEAKER_05 (36:35):
What uh what steps do you have planned for
yourself?
SPEAKER_03 (36:37):
I gotta let them do stuff.
And when we go to McDonald's,I'd instead of just ordering for
them, make them order forthemselves.
But I think that's it, that is alot of it.
It just kick my hands off thereins and let them just let them
do.
SPEAKER_05 (36:51):
Okay, we're gonna check in on you and uh your uh
we'll have a future podcastwhere we evaluate following the
invention.
You know, I think I thinkself-awareness is always the
first step.
So, you know, if if you'velistened today and you're
starting to realize that you'vebeen a lawnmower parent, being
aware of that, being aware thatit may have negative long-term
(37:13):
impacts for your child, that'sthe first step.
Also knowing that if you aremaking efforts to stop being a
lawnmower parent, but you'vetrained your child to expect
that, you're gonna get somepushback from your child.
They like what you've been doingfor them, right?
It it it it uh has made theirpathway easier.
So you're gonna have torecognize that pushback will
come.
And will you give in andcontinue to do that or can you
(37:36):
change your own habits?
SPEAKER_00 (37:38):
Growing up, we had uh remarkable young people uh
that I grew up with, and theywere the children that grew up
on dairy farms back where I wasfrom.
And and it's not now when youthink of a dairy farm, they're
big corporate-owned dairy farmswith thousands of cows.
Well, these were maybe as few as40 and maybe as many as 200,
just a little family farm.
(37:59):
Okay, so everybody hadresponsibilities, and you were
what did you say?
Whatever you can do, how'd yousay that, Josh?
SPEAKER_03 (38:06):
Whatever cow can reasonably do, they should do.
SPEAKER_00 (38:10):
That was the that was the rule of thumb uh on that
dairy farm, and it was reallyjust a matter of because it had
to, that those kids were waymore resilient, they were good
in the classroom, they they wereable to handle adversity a lot
better, they were just tougher,not uh in the best sense of the
term, tougher.
And because they just had topush through a lot of things and
(38:31):
figure things out and hadresponsibilities.
SPEAKER_03 (38:34):
So, how can parents walk alongside their child
during struggles withoutstepping in to fix everything?
What is so what does healthysupport look like?
SPEAKER_00 (38:41):
Because we're gonna make an action plan for you,
John.
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (38:44):
That was my whole method of this, or the whole
reason behind this is I need Ineed some help.
So yes.
SPEAKER_00 (38:50):
Listeners, thank you for joining us.
SPEAKER_03 (38:52):
Intervention.
Intervention, yes.
SPEAKER_05 (38:54):
I think you need support, you need a support
system.
So, like Josh, you've mentionedApril is not the lawnmower
parent, right?
So you've already got somebodythere like supporting you and
kind of pulling you back whenyour tendency is to step in and
fix that.
But I think it's important foryour kids to have support from
other people as well.
I've always been a proponent ofcreating a community for your
(39:17):
children so that they have otheradults who have similar values
to yours that they could reachout to for support and help.
And so those may be teachers, itmay be neighbors, grandparents,
it could be people at yourchurch.
But I just think the more thewider support system your has
your child has, the better.
SPEAKER_00 (39:37):
This uh now I'm preaching not to Josh, but to
myself.
It seems like this wholebusiness requires a lot of
patience, doesn't it?
Because I talked about thismight reflect bad on me, you
know, Suzanne, what you said, ormight have fear about safety.
Another thing is just a lot ofus have this unhealthy need of
control and need to be incontrol.
(39:57):
So as we watch our child dosomething, it might not be how's
this going to reflect on me?
It might not be that this isnecessarily dangerous, but okay,
it's gonna be a lot faster if Ido it or if I dictate to them
how to do it than if I watchthem struggle to tie their
shoes, right, Suzanne?
Yeah, it takes longer.
So it seems like one of thevirtues this really requires on
(40:19):
my part is I I really need to bepatient.
SPEAKER_03 (40:22):
So, what does it mean to parent with a long-term
vision of developing maturityover comfort?
And what encouragement would youoffer to a parent who wants to
make that shift?
SPEAKER_02 (40:31):
I really like what Suzanne said about the 18 when
they're 18 years old.
You have them in in your housefor 18 years, your goal should
be longer than that, muchlonger.
So you should be looking furtherdown the road.
And I think that's the point isthe idea is the the short term
isn't really a long-term win forthe kids.
And the goal should be, youknow, and I think having the
(40:52):
conversation with the kids aboutit too.
Like, hey, uh I recognize thatthere are some areas where I've
probably jumped in or I've donethis, and I'm going to start
stepping back a little bit.
I'm gonna let let you make somemistakes.
It's gonna be uncomfortable forboth of us, and that could be a
helpful deal.
Just the conversation and theopen honesty there too.
SPEAKER_05 (41:12):
My encouragement to parents would be to be
consistent.
And that's hard, right?
This changes about me as aparent that I've got to make
that that change.
I have to look at every decisionand ask myself, is this for
short-term convenience orlong-term goals?
And then I have to be consistentin applying those decisions.
SPEAKER_03 (41:30):
I think I would say too, in the short term, it may
get harder before it getsbetter.
Yeah.
It will get harder before itgets better.
I mean, I've been working onthis a little bit over the last
couple of years, and sometimes Ijust want to go back to making
everything happen.
But yeah, it it it does getbetter in the long run, though.
SPEAKER_05 (41:46):
You can do it, Josh.
We have faith in you.
SPEAKER_00 (41:48):
And you're gonna start by letting your children
order at McDonald's.
Yes, that's right.
That's right.
SPEAKER_05 (41:55):
Just to clarify for our listeners, how old are your
kids, Josh?
SPEAKER_03 (41:59):
Wow.
Old enough to be able to orderat McDonald's.
Thank you so much for listeningto us today.
Whether you be mowing your lawn,washing your dishes, or going
for a walk or driving aroundtown, we appreciate it.
Until next time, you may have toloan out your frontal lobes
today.
Just make sure you remember andget them back.
SPEAKER_04 (42:16):
Thank you for listening to Brain Based
Parenting.
We hope you enjoyed this show.
If you would like moreinformation about Cal Farley's
Boys Ranch, are interested inemployment, would like
information about placing yourchild, or would like to help us
help children by donating to ourmission, please visit
calfarly.org.
You can find us on all socialmedia platforms by searching for
(42:39):
CalFarley's.
Thank you for spending your timewith us and have a blessed day.
Welcome to Brain-Based Parenting, the Boys
Ranch podcast for families.
We all know how hard being aparent is, and sometimes it
feels like there are no goodanswers to the difficult
questions families have whentheir kids are struggling.
Our goal each week will be totry and answer some of those
tough questions utilizing theknowledge, experience, and
(00:21):
professional training CalFarley's Boys Ranch has to
offer.
Now here is your host, CalFarley Staff Development
Coordinator, Joshua Sprock.
SPEAKER_03 (00:30):
Hello and welcome.
Today we're going to talk aboutone of the most common parenting
traps, the lawnmower parenttrap, and how to avoid it.
SPEAKER_05 (00:36):
To do that today, I'm joined by Suzanne Wright,
Vice President of Training andIntervention.
SPEAKER_00 (00:41):
Judah Brown, Campus Life Supervisor.
Yeah, Mike Wilhelm, Director ofFaith-Based Outreach.
SPEAKER_03 (00:46):
All right.
So let's kick off with ourquestion of the day.
Since we're talking aboutlawnmower parenting, what is
your skill level andappreciation for lawnmowing?
SPEAKER_05 (00:54):
I think my skill level is fairly low, but I do
enjoy it.
And I think I'm pretty gooduntil I turn around and notice
how wavy my lines are.
So like if if someone is pickyabout that, they would not
appreciate my skill.
SPEAKER_02 (01:06):
It's been a while since I've mowed a yard.
So I have children to do thatand and pick up.
That was always something my dadwould always have me do.
And then as soon as I became aparent that could have children
that could push a lawnmower, itwas their turn.
So yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (01:22):
I enjoy lawn mowing and I like push mowing.
And uh when I was a kid, dad myfirst I think I learned the
first riding mower was a cubcadet.
Do you guys know what a cubcadet is?
Oh my.
Okay.
Yeah, that was that was a goldstandard.
But uh yeah, I like lawn mowing.
Now the deck mowers, those aretricky, and you know how the
deck mowers work.
(01:42):
We had a boys ranch kid once puta deck mower in one of the
lakes.
Oh yeah, he zigged when he shoothis eggs and put it right in the
lake.
SPEAKER_05 (01:50):
Josh, how about you?
Are you a good lawn mower?
SPEAKER_03 (01:52):
I don't know if I'm good, but I love to mow the
lawn.
SPEAKER_05 (01:54):
Really?
SPEAKER_03 (01:55):
Yes, it's my my relaxation thing.
I and at the end, my girlsalways make fun of me.
They say I have the classic dadstance where I'm surveying, have
my hands on my hips, staring atmy lawn, shaking my head, doing
all the, you know, how proud Iam of myself.
SPEAKER_05 (02:08):
Yeah, so you know, it's rhythmic, repetitive, and
patterned.
It works great for braindevelopment.
It's true.
SPEAKER_03 (02:14):
That's why I love it.
All right.
So today we're gonna be talkingabout a topic that relatively
new in the conversation, whichis called lawnmower parenting.
So, what would you say lawnmowerparenting is?
SPEAKER_05 (02:25):
I think it describes parents who want to remove any
and all obstacles from theirchild's path.
So anything that might slow themdown or cause them stress or
hinder their progress, parentsjust want to mow that down and
take it out of the way.
SPEAKER_00 (02:39):
Yeah, like boy, well said.
SPEAKER_02 (02:41):
Yeah, I think knocking down the all the issues
that may be problems for theirchildren is definitely the big
piece.
SPEAKER_03 (02:48):
So, how do you think this parenting style emerged and
what cultural or societalpressures have contributed to
its rise?
SPEAKER_02 (02:54):
You know, for me, I think it's a fear of allowing
your kids to fail.
It's also a view of how peopleare gonna view your children if
they do fail.
I think that that really kind ofbrings up a thought for me.
Like, I have quite a spanbetween my children.
I have an 18-year-old and atwo-year-old.
And with our 18-year-old beingour first, we did a lot of
things where we were afraid toallow him to make mistakes.
(03:16):
Or if he if he did fail atsomething, we were afraid what
people would think about us.
So we had to like take him outof those situations or remove
those situations from him.
He made the comment not long agothat we didn't we didn't allow
him to fail quite like he neededto.
He's like, it's okay for peopleto fail.
And I never really experiencedthat because you and mom always
(03:36):
removed those from me.
And I think, you know, he's inthe military now, so I think
that's one of those things wherehe put himself in a position
where he was going to experiencefailure and experience not
always the the easiest path.
SPEAKER_05 (03:49):
So I think one point you made is really important in
that we're concerned about howit reflects on us as parents.
And so I think a lot of parentsbend over backwards to ensure
their child's success so that itreflects well on them.
Look what a good parent I am.
And and it's an attempt to avoidjudgment if their child does
(04:09):
make a mistake.
SPEAKER_00 (04:10):
Boy, I couldn't agree more.
And I wonder too if there'sanother, there's even another
piece of this.
You you correct me if I'm if I'mchasing a rabbit here, but
there's there's also withyounger children, we could do
some lawnmower parenting wherewe're plowing away, clearing the
path where they're this theenvironment is so safe that
nothing, nothing bad could everhappen, even if that whatever
(04:34):
that bad thing, the the odds ofit are just astronomical, you
know, that it could happenanyway.
But to make the environment sosterile and safe because there's
a, I don't know, maybe it's 24-7cable news has a lot of
boogeyman put in our heads wherewe're kind of we're scared, we
want our kid to be safe.
That's all good stuff to wantour kids to be safe.
But to not let them experiencesome adversity.
(04:56):
Sometimes it might be like Judahand Suzanne said, it could be
living vicariously through ourkid and and it's how's this
going to reflect on me.
Sometimes it might be trying tooverprotect them, you know, for
some safety reasons just becauseour culture has uh we're really
caught up with that right now.
Does that make sense?
Do you think that's right?
SPEAKER_04 (05:14):
Yeah, I agree with you.
SPEAKER_03 (05:15):
Yeah, I remember something you said in an earlier
podcast on a completelydifferent topic, but said that
back when you were a kid thatthere was lots of commercials
during kids' programming forband-aids.
SPEAKER_00 (05:25):
Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (05:25):
And now you never see band-aid commercials on.
And I think it's because we wenever let kids get a a scrape or
a boo-boo.
SPEAKER_00 (05:32):
No, I'm not gonna uh I'm not gonna torture our
listening audience with uhsinging the jingle, but I still
know the band-aid commercialjingle because it was played so
often, and there were a lot ofband-aid commercials and
antiseptic commercials forscraped knees and things like
that.
You haven't seen those fordecades, right?
SPEAKER_01 (05:52):
True.
SPEAKER_03 (05:53):
What about the self-esteem movement of like the
eighties?
How do you think that playedinto the lawnmower parenting?
SPEAKER_05 (05:58):
You know, it's been it's been popular for a long
time that everybody gets aribbon, right?
Everybody gets an award,everybody gets a certificate.
And that the same thing, right?
We don't want to make anybodyfeel bad because they didn't
win.
And I've even seen it, you know,go to the other extreme that
that kids in a school weren'tgiven an award for doing well,
so that the children who didn'treceive award didn't feel bad.
(06:21):
And so that was, you know, thatwas a lawnmower, let's just mow
everything down.
And, you know, the statement wasthat by by showing recognition
for a child who did well, thatyour silence towards other
children was calling out thatthey didn't do well.
And that, you know, that's thesame.
Everybody gets a a trophy oreverybody gets an award.
(06:42):
And and I can remember a afamily member's child who went
to dance class and and part ofthe expense of dance class was a
trophy that the parents had tobuy every their own child a
trophy so that at the end ofdance class, all the kids got a
trophy and it just wow, wheredid all that come from?
You know, that that thingsweren't that way for a long
(07:03):
time.
SPEAKER_03 (07:03):
And I wonder what role like social media played
into this type this style ofparenting.
SPEAKER_02 (07:08):
Well, I think social media plays a large role because
you see the pictures of howeverything is great and grand.
And it just I think people feelthat they have to show
everything is terrific.
Their parenting is terrific.
Social media is really hard forme because of that, because I
feel like parenting is messy,and it's okay for it to be
messy.
(07:29):
My father-in-law is reallyinteresting because he jokes
about the thing that he lovedabout parenting was how messy it
was.
He's like, Those are the thingsyou remember is it not being
perfect, and that it it therewere those moments where you
lost your mind as a parent andyou yelled, but then you came
back and apologized and workedit out because those are what
your kids remember is when it'snot perfect and that you're
(07:52):
having fun in spite of being adifficult situation.
I think that the the idea of ummaking sure that everything is
perfect around us is a part ofthat social media piece.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (08:02):
In what ways might a parent's own upbringing or
unresolved anxiety influencetheir desire to overprotect
their child?
SPEAKER_05 (08:08):
I think if you were raised in an environment where
you didn't have a lot ofstructure and consistency and
you felt unprotected or unsafe,that that could lead you to want
to provide a very protective,safe, structured, consistent
environment for your child.
And as Mike said earlier, thosethings are important.
But there also has to be someopportunity to learn in that
(08:30):
environment.
And, you know, the old saying isyou learn more by failing than
you do by succeeding.
So we all have, you know, youhave to learn it somewhere.
You have to make a mistake, youhave to do it wrong.
I I think about children who areprotected their whole lives and
then they go out onto their own.
Now who's gonna protect them?
Right?
If if we don't let kids learn tostumble and pick themselves up
(08:51):
along the way, what happens whenthey finally reach adulthood and
they haven't had any practice atthat?
Now you now you have biggerstakes.
SPEAKER_01 (08:59):
Yes.
SPEAKER_05 (08:59):
Right now, now the the stumble or the fall is
further.
The mistake could be moresevere, right?
And so this is just a lot like alot of other things we teach our
kids, we give them small dosesof challenge as they grow up so
that by the time they're adults,they're prepared.
SPEAKER_00 (09:15):
And that that's a great question, Josh.
And I I I know probably thethree of you have seen this
before, where yeah, sometimesyou'll you'll meet somebody that
uh came from a hard place and uhno fault of theirs.
They just uh they grew up in ahome that maybe was out of
control due to addiction.
They survived that, lived totell the tale, and are committed
(09:36):
to never, ever, ever letanything like that happen again
to the point that that fear istheir main motivation rather
than than love being their theirmotivation, their parenting from
a position of fear.
And you become a, there you go,a lawnmower parent, right?
SPEAKER_03 (09:53):
What are some of the short and long-term effects of
shielding children fromdiscomfort and failure?
SPEAKER_02 (09:57):
You know, it's interesting when you were, Mike,
when you were making the commentabout kids not I and I guess I
go straight to kids not goingoutside as much anymore.
Because when I was a kid, if Iwas being really loud and
annoying to my mom, it was gooutside and go play outside,
right?
And uh and we would go outsideand I'd get in trouble, and then
I'd come back inside after I gotyelled at by somebody else.
(10:19):
And then that was kind of mychildhood.
Whereas I feel like nowadays,because outside is kind of
viewed as like this dangerousplace a little bit, that what we
do is we give our kids screensand we can keep an eye on them.
We think we can, but whatthey're able to do on the
screens is is kind of dangerousa little bit more.
So I I feel like the short-termgain of of some of that stuff is
(10:43):
you get to keep your eyes onthem, they're protected, but the
long term of what you may beallowing them to get into or not
allowing them to reallyexperience can be really
long-term issues.
SPEAKER_00 (10:54):
Yeah, I I I sat with uh a fella just the other day
who's who's an an an elderlygentleman who's going through
some very difficult chemo.
The chemo has given himneuropathy in his his feet and
his hands.
And he was talking about howhaving neuropathy, how dangerous
it can be because you could haveyour foot next to a heater not
realize my foot is blistered, uhhas become blistered, and how
(11:18):
important it is to be able toget that feedback from our our
environment that we live in.
Go out and build a tree house ora fort.
It's you're gonna get splinters,sometimes you're gonna fall.
You you're doing you got ahammer and some old rusty nails,
and sometimes a mom and dadmight need to take you to go get
a tetanus shot, but you'relearning a lot, you're getting a
(11:38):
lot of feedback from theenvironment.
I I think to not have any ofthat and to be so in such a
bubble where we would have to belosing a lot of resiliency
moving into adulthood.
Just some just some practicalgrowing up.
Does that sound do I soundancient when I say that,
Suzanne?
SPEAKER_05 (11:57):
No, I think I think you're dead on.
And and you know, you you hear alot of stories from people
roughly our age and older.
I I remember my my husband as asmall, like as a five-year-old,
that he and his brother would beat their grandparents' house who
lived out in the country, andthey would walk five miles to
the convenience store to buycigarettes for their grandpa and
walk back.
Okay, no, that's a little toomuch freedom in the outdoors,
(12:19):
right?
I mean, like we all hear thatand we think of everything that
could go wrong and who wasselling cigarettes to a
seven-year-old, and right, youknow, like that's so you have
there has to be a happy mediumin there somewhere, right?
From you know, allowing thingsthat are dangerous, but still
providing opportunities for themto grow.
SPEAKER_00 (12:39):
Boy, and I appreciate you talking about
that balance because I wouldwant listeners to know this is
not about saying, oh, if only itwere like the the good old days.
There are so many things abouttoday that are better than the
when I was a child, and we'vegotten much better at a lot of
things.
So not not putting it out thatthere that way at all.
But I do think we perhaps wehave made a misstep pushing too
(13:02):
far into lawnmower parenting anduh making just super safe
bubbles and protecting kids fromany kind of setback.
SPEAKER_02 (13:10):
Pendulum swinging, you know.
Pendulum effect.
We've gone a little bit too farto the other side.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (13:15):
I read a story years ago, and I wish I knew the name
of the Nobel Prize winner thatit was about.
I'm I'm sorry, I don't rememberthat.
But he said as a small child, hewas trying to pour himself a
glass of milk, and this is when,you know, the milk guy delivered
bottles of milk to your to yourfront step.
And so he had this glass bottlefull of milk and he tried to
pour himself milk and he spilledit.
(13:36):
And his mom comes in the kitchenand she says, Oh, you you
spilled the milk.
How do you think you shouldclean that up?
What do you think would be thebest to clean that up?
Do you think it would be a clothor maybe a sponge or a mop?
And so she problem solved withhim.
Which method do you think wouldbe appropriate?
Now, now that would not havebeen me.
Right?
You spilled the milk and youknow, and you're gonna make a
(13:57):
bigger mess cleaning it upyourself.
I'll just clean it up.
That that kind of would havebeen, but she gave him the
opportunity to think aboutchoices, and then she let him
clean it up.
And then they took an empty milkbottle and went out in the
backyard and filled it up withwater.
And she said, How could youpractice pouring that so the
next time you pour yourself aglass of milk, you wouldn't
(14:18):
spill it?
And so he practiced picking thebottle up in different ways,
holding it at different angles.
And that has always stuck withme as such an amazing example of
parenting that encourages andallows your child to think for
themselves, to problem solve.
And the mom didn't get allworked up over a glass of
spilled milk, right?
It's just such a great story.
(14:39):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (14:39):
That's a great story.
You know, and I heard someone,there was someone that was
working in a university settingthat was that just loves young
people.
So this wasn't uh griping aboutthough like the old days.
It was just someone that reallyloves old people, I mean young
people, and was working with aleadership group of of college
kids.
This was uh at their college,this was a a leadership group,
(15:02):
the cream of the cream.
And one of the things they hadto do was to decorate this area.
I don't know if it was at thelibrary or if it was some
building that, but they hadChristmas decorations to put out
and set this up.
So the leadership team just tookthe ball and set this up.
Well, they come back behind andcheck.
Well, like the tree just haddecorations just halfway up the
tree and it was left unfinished.
(15:24):
And there was just a whole bunchof things like that.
And I came back and asked theleader of the leaders of the
leadership group, what hey,what's going on?
Oh, well, we ran out of stuff.
Well, okay.
Okay, you see where this isgoing.
All right.
The then this their sponsor,whoever this was telling the
story, said, you know, they justthought you just they just
didn't know what to do next.
(15:46):
And that's what happens if we doa lot more parenting and and
kids don't learn to push throughsome adversity and f just in the
stakes aren't high decorating alobby for Christmas, right?
But how telling is that?
These were the top collegerecruits at this university and
they didn't know how to problemsolve and push through and
(16:07):
figure something out.
Like ask someone, are there moredecoration somewhere?
Or try to you know do make dowith what you had, but they just
stop.
SPEAKER_03 (16:15):
So how does lawnmower parenting impact a
child's ability to buildresilience, independence, and
healthy coping skills?
SPEAKER_05 (16:21):
You know, any of the skills that we try to teach our
children are learned throughrepetition, right?
So anytime you learn a newskill, when you learn when
you're a kid and you're learningto ride a bike, you have to do
it over and over and over andover, and you're building a new
pathway in your brain untileventually, voila, you can ride
a bike, right?
And then eventually you can takethose training wheels off.
(16:42):
But it's it's step by step andit's repetitive.
And so if we don't give our kidsthe opportunity to learn things
and to repeat that learningprocess, again, they're gonna
they're gonna get to adulthoodand they're gonna struggle.
They haven't had the opportunityto build resilience.
You can't, you can't buyresilience and you know it's not
a package that you could giveanother person.
(17:04):
You have to develop on your own.
And it takes, it takes time.
SPEAKER_02 (17:08):
I think learning to be comfortable with uncomfort,
right?
Teaching, teaching our childrenand teaching people that it's
okay to be uncomfortable andthat the more you're
uncomfortable, that'll bring theresults around.
SPEAKER_05 (17:20):
Years ago, my sister taught sixth grade and they were
struggling with a with a boy whowould never turn in his
homework.
And it ended up in a meetingbetween the principal and my
sister and the child's mother.
The mother said, Well, did youlook in his backpack for his
homework?
And my sister said, That'sthat's not my role, right?
That's his responsibility tolook in the backpack to take the
(17:43):
homework out and to turn it in.
And at the conclusion of thatmeeting, the principal told my
sister, the teacher, you look inhis backpack.
And I thought, in sixth grade.
So, so then how long do wecontinue that in middle school?
Are we gonna have, as teachers,look in the kids' backpack?
What's gonna happen in highschool?
What if you go to college?
Like that is never gonna teachthat kid to be self-sufficient
(18:06):
or independent.
SPEAKER_03 (18:07):
Yeah, it's funny that you say that.
I just heard a story recently onthe news that kids getting their
or kids, young adults gettingtheir first jobs, employers have
noticed an overwhelming majorityof them have their parents come
and sit in the lobby with themfor their first job interview.
I think that's kind of theculmination, being there doing
everything for them like that.
SPEAKER_05 (18:24):
Yeah, yeah.
Or or a parent calling in sickfor a child from their job.
SPEAKER_03 (18:29):
So how do you think this style of parenting can
unintentionally createentitlement or an unrealistic
view of success in kids?
And how might that show up laterin life?
SPEAKER_05 (18:38):
You know, I I just think it's gonna be, I don't
think there are a whole lot ofbosses who are gonna go for
that, right?
I mean, uh you know, askyourself as an employer, would
you hire somebody whose mom ordad filled out the job
application or or who aresitting in the, you know, the
foyer of a building waiting tosee how that goes, or or how
would you handle that if aparent called in, you know, my
(18:58):
son woke up sick today and can'tcome to work.
I I just I think a lot of thingsthat we do to quote unquote
protect our kids don't servethem well as they move into
adulthood and need to have themskill, those skills themselves.
Who I I can think ofrelationship problems that that
would cause conflict,relationships on the job, that
(19:19):
just seems like a recipe fordisaster to me.
SPEAKER_02 (19:21):
I mean, just the idea of entitlement, just I
can't, I can't really wrap mybrain around um expecting
someone to do that for you.
I think that's the kind of thecrazy part is that and and that
it kind of the situation getsworse in college a little bit
because they might make itthrough high school and they
might get to college, but itthere's gonna be at least one or
(19:43):
two professors that are gonnahave, you know, the phrase that
a lack of planning on your partdoes not constitute an emergency
on mine.
Yeah, because I had a few ofthose.
And and I think college is kindof that place where I had for
the first time where I had aprofessor say, you will not make
an A in my class.
And that was a new thoughtprocess because it was like, no,
(20:04):
everyone makes A's.
And I remember when I had aprofessor say that to me, it was
like, oh, okay.
Like, and then his his idea wasno A's are for the 1% of people
that really are going to put inthe work and extra work and hard
work, and it's gonna be, I cantell.
It really is interesting tothink almost how people get all
(20:24):
the way through their highschool and maybe even college
careers, all the way through andmaybe even to their first job
and not realize what realsuccess looks like.
SPEAKER_05 (20:33):
Well, and I think I think a lot of this boils down
to our goals for parenting.
Do we have short-term goals orlong-term goals?
Your influence over your child,them living in your home and you
parenting them as a child isabout 18 years, right?
They may live 70 years beyondthat, right?
And so if you are only parentingyour child to make things easy
(20:57):
till they're 18, you have a veryshort-term view of their life.
SPEAKER_00 (21:01):
That's a great point.
SPEAKER_05 (21:02):
And what you need to do is say, I am parenting this
child to enable them to leave myhome to be successful adults.
And so you want to parent withthat view of what's next, what
do those next 70 years looklike?
And are they prepared tofunction in those 70 years, not
just how can I make it easy thefirst 18.
SPEAKER_03 (21:21):
Why is failure a healthy and necessary part of
childhood development?
SPEAKER_02 (21:25):
You know, we see we see it out here on ranch quite
often.
And I've seen it just in my ownlife with my own kids, that when
a kid will play a sport and havea really hard time in the sport,
they quit.
And then the next sport comeson, they quit that.
And there's a lot ofinadequacies and insecurities
there.
And I think the importance asparents is instead of just
(21:45):
encouraging the kid to quit, butasking like the why question,
right?
Like, or what about this, right?
Instead of why.
What about this isuncomfortable?
What about this is somethingthat you want to quit?
Are you not feeling that you'regood enough in this area?
You know, it's interesting withmy my oldest daughter, she loves
to fail.
I I don't, and I say that kindof jokingly, like she wanted to
(22:06):
to try cheerleading.
And I was like, Are are yousure?
You sure you want to docheerleading?
You've never done it before,you've done dancing.
She's like, Absolutely, I wantto do cheerleading.
I was like, Okay.
And she did it and got on theteam.
I was like, Oh, okay, that'sthat's great.
And then she tried out for thebasketball team.
And I was like, Are you sureyou've never played basketball
and you have two left feet?
And I think for me, it was thisrealization that I didn't want
(22:30):
her to fail.
Because she was so, you know,she has things she's really good
at.
It's like, hey, continue to dothis, continue to try this.
And her comment was, Well, whywhy wouldn't I, why would I do
that?
I want to try everything.
I maybe this, maybe basketball'sthe thing.
I just never played it before.
I don't know.
Uh, maybe cheerleading is thething.
And I think that, you know, thethe mistakes we make with our
(22:52):
kids, right?
We learn it was like that ahamoment of like, oh, I really try
to keep her from experiencingtoo much.
Like, I don't want her to do toomuch, I don't want her to fail
in and things.
So it's that fear, and and it'sa part of like my own
development, I think, because mydad wanted me to just do, hey,
just do this and this, these twothings, and focus on those
(23:15):
things.
And the more you can focus onthose, that's good.
But I think her way of doing itis I like it.
It's creative, it's different,it's wanting to try and make
mistakes, and it's not like howI was ever taught to operate.
So it's cool to see her do itand then still do it well and
come across and like she'll madea basket and she's like, I made
(23:35):
a basket.
And I'm like, Well, what aboutthe seven you missed?
You know, and that's as aparent, right?
Like the focus becomes reallyterrible sometimes, yeah.
As opposed to being like proudof her for that.
And I had to go back and belike, I'm so sorry I tried to
talk you out of those things.
That man, I really goofed onthat.
SPEAKER_05 (23:54):
I think if you go back to that example of the
Nobel Prize winner's mother,right, who said, you know, you
failed when you poured the milkall over the kitchen floor.
So how do we clean it up?
But then how could you learn todo it better next time?
And then they practice, right?
And so that that failure is howyou learn again.
And and you know, so you learn,but you have support is the most
(24:15):
important thing.
When you fail, you have supportand encouragement.
Try again, take it a differentapproach, you know, and and
instead of us as parents going,let me tell you how you ought to
do it, which you know is ourapproach.
Like, you know, our cortexes arefully developed, we can see all
the pitfalls, but leading themto insight, how do you think you
could hold that that bottle sothat you could pour the water
(24:36):
and not spill it?
That encourages their cortexdevelopment.
SPEAKER_03 (24:40):
Yeah.
I think they also learned thatthey survived it.
SPEAKER_01 (24:44):
Yeah, it wasn't the end of the world.
They didn't die.
Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (24:48):
What they're just great teaching moments that
we're gonna short ourselves,aren't we?
If we if we if we do thelawnmower parenting, we protect
them from anything that mightmake us reflect back bad back on
us.
Really does become so importantdue to talking about how you
handled that situation with yourdaughter to let her do those
things she wasn't so good at.
Well, you know, what if ourchild wanted to do something and
(25:12):
they were the worst one inT-ball or whatever it is?
I mean the worst one on thefield at their best effort.
Can we be okay with that andsupport our child and have a
loving conversation and let themknow that your value is based on
who you are, not how good of a Tball player you are or whatever.
(25:32):
Because we can really one, wecan overprotect the kids, or we
if we let them get in thatsetting and we are so insecure,
worried about how this is gonnareflect on us, and our kid picks
up on a little bit of shame.
Now that's gonna be a killertoo, right?
Let's look at our child as ahuman being and not a human
doing and make sure that weaffirm their worth as based on
who they are, not on how theyperform, right?
(25:54):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (25:55):
And also were they having fun.
SPEAKER_00 (25:57):
Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (25:57):
Right.
Like we as parents, some gettimes get tripped up in
performance and accomplishmentwhen are the kids just have are
they having fun doing it?
Who cares if they're the worstonto the team?
Were they having fun?
Right.
And that's that's a big part ofit.
And you know, it's there is achance that they could care less
if they win or lose.
They're just out there withtheir friends, running around,
having a good time, and andmaybe we ought to pay more
(26:20):
attention to that.
SPEAKER_02 (26:21):
Yeah, and that's really what sports and
extracurriculars should beabout, is them having fun and
having a good time as opposed tothe focus on the performance.
SPEAKER_00 (26:30):
And we could take that as an opportunity to talk
about there is a difference inperformance if they're they have
a friend that is really good att-ball, and what the and you
could talk about that just verymatter-of-fact, so that we're
not trying to just beunrealistic and level the the
playing field and protect themfrom any of the sting of their
there's that's there's life,right?
Yeah, there's some differences,and Johnny, God's gifted him
(26:53):
with some athleticism.
And boy, is parents really spenda lot of time with t-ball, and
that's what they do, and we canwe can celebrate that and really
admire it, but still not baseour worth, child's worth, on
that.
So it seems like we're able totalk about the two things the
performance, let them experiencesome adversity, but always
reinforce their worth as a humanbeing.
SPEAKER_03 (27:15):
So, what kinds of age-appropriate struggle should
parents allow or even encouragetheir kids to face?
SPEAKER_05 (27:21):
I remember when when one of my daughters was learning
how to tie her shoe, and it justwas taking forever.
Like it just, you know, itdidn't click.
It just wasn't she didn't getit.
And and we worked and worked andworked on it.
And so when we were ready toleave the house, it was so much
quicker for me to tie our shoes.
And I would stop myself and say,Yeah, but do you want to be
tiring her shoes when she's 10or 15 or you know, 20?
(27:42):
So I would just kind of forcemyself to just sit and wait and
be patient.
And that, you know, that was ageappropriate.
And chores are a very ageappropriate learning.
And is it easier for us to pickit up, to wipe it up, to clean?
Yes, it is, but it's it's anecessary struggle to prepare
them for adult living later on.
SPEAKER_03 (28:02):
It's funny you said that I just heard someone on the
on another podcast talking aboutthat, that there are gonna be
struggles when you try and holdyour kids accountable to do
their chores.
And it is in the short termeasier to do it.
But if at some point in thefuture you decide you are gonna
hold them accountable, you havethat many years worth of fights
to deal with.
It's gonna compound itself.
So you're either gonna get thefights in little doses as you
(28:23):
go, or you're gonna getginormous doses of fights and
pushback um as they grow up.
So it's better just to do it inthe in the short term.
SPEAKER_02 (28:30):
It's funny you bring up tying shoes because my my
youngest daughter, um, she'ssix.
And when she was about four, Itried to teach her how to tie
her shoes and kept trying herthe way that I had learned how
to do it.
And one day she came home withthis whole new way of doing it.
And it was like, I was just likemesmerized by it.
Like, how in the world did youlearn to do it this way?
(28:50):
And she said, Oh, somebody indaycare does it this way.
And I was like, thought it wasreally because they tied the
knot and then they looped it inafterwards.
And I was thinking about it andI was like, you know, as a
parent, I kind of want to belike, no, no, don't do it that
way, right?
Like, no, no, do it the way Itaught you.
Because the way I taught youworks, right?
The way that she learned to doit was easier for her, and
someone else taught her to doit.
(29:12):
And it was kind of like I tookthat second of being like, Oh,
this is okay, all right, I'lltake it.
Yeah, it's hard, right?
Everything inside of me wants tobe like, no, this isn't the way
my dad taught me.
Oh, this is the way my momtaught me, right?
But for her to have kind of anew way of doing it that worked
for her, I like that.
SPEAKER_05 (29:28):
And she got to teach you.
Yes, she didn't.
She did really.
It is, it is kind of a cool way,yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (29:33):
So, full disclosure, I may be the Texberic lawnmower
parent.
If there's a picture in thedictionary, my it's probably me
next to it.
So, this last year, one of mydaughters left their Chromebook
at home, and we drive, you know,45 minutes to work every single
day.
We got about halfway to theranch and she realized she
forgot her Chromebook.
Everything in me wanted to turnaround and drive back to
Amarillo and get her Chromebookfor her.
(29:55):
Thankfully, my wife is not alawnmower parent, and she would
not let me turn around.
And that was the mostuncomfortable 20 minutes or
whatever.
And then that whole day I wasjust stress stressed that she
was gonna have a horrible day.
But in the end, she survived.
She, you know, had a hard day atschool.
But after that, she didn'tforget her Chromebook again the
rest of the year.
SPEAKER_05 (30:13):
Here with our kids on campus, we talk about natural
consequences.
And that's a naturalconsequence, right?
You don't wear your coat andyou're cold during the day.
You know, we're not gonna allowa consequence that would cause
harm.
SPEAKER_01 (30:24):
Right.
SPEAKER_05 (30:24):
But but struggling without a Chromebook is kind of
a natural consequence, right?
And how many more times did sheforget her Chromebook?
SPEAKER_03 (30:32):
Never again.
SPEAKER_05 (30:32):
Never again, right?
So that was an age-appropriatestruggle that she faced, knowing
that dad wouldn't save her.
SPEAKER_03 (30:40):
I really wanted to, though.
SPEAKER_05 (30:42):
We're proud of you, Josh.
SPEAKER_03 (30:44):
So how can giving kids predictable, moderate
levels of stress actuallyproduce resilience and emotional
growth?
SPEAKER_05 (30:50):
I think that's almost the definition of how you
produce resilience and emotionalgrowth is to give kids
predictable and moderate levelsof stress, right?
That you give them challengesthat are age appropriate,
they're able to accomplish.
Don't set a bar so high thatthey become discouraged, that
they can never accomplish thegoal.
But providing them with thosepredictable moderate levels of
(31:12):
stress is important, right?
A teacher who assigns homeworkgives a predictable moderate
level of stress, a a testingclass, a chore to do, right?
All of those things arepredictable, they're reasonable.
It can be stressful to take atest, but they prepare for it,
they take that test, they'veaccomplished that.
SPEAKER_00 (31:30):
I always marvel at the really gifted teachers that
are working with a lot ofdifferent kids because there are
no two kids the same.
And there's not a cookie cutterwith this or a simple formula,
is there?
No.
There are some kids that havesome just some struggles at
remembering to you know puttheir Chromebook in their
backpack.
It's just not as simple as justget over it and do it right, or
(31:54):
just you know, you just bark atthem and let them hang.
Some kids are gonna need somemore assistance, right?
So there's really an art toknowing the child and how much
what what is a how did you sayit again, that age appropriate
dose of stress, is that right,Suzanne?
Yes.
But age appropriate, you know,isn't it's not gonna be a every
12-year-old's not gonna have theexact require the exact same
(32:17):
parenting as as the next, right?
Some are gonna need some morehelp, some are ready to be let
go even more, would you say?
SPEAKER_05 (32:23):
Yeah, yeah, I think that's great.
You know, there's a book calledAtomic Habits, which has great
information in it, but one ofthe things it talks about is the
way to develop good habits is toset the stage for success,
right?
And so if if we're struggling toget out of the house on time in
the morning, the way to preparefor that is the night before.
So I check in with each child.
(32:44):
Is your outfit picked out fortomorrow?
Is it set out for tomorrow?
Are your backpacks loaded?
Is your Chromebook already inyour backpack?
Right.
Did we make the lunches thenight before and are they in the
fridge?
Like we are setting the stage tobe successful before we end up
in a situation where we're incrisis.
And I think some of that applieshere too.
We're not, you know, we're gonnahelp set the stage for kids to
(33:06):
be successful.
But if they if they f fail tofollow through, we're not gonna
take ownership of that for them,isn't is important.
SPEAKER_03 (33:14):
I heard someone say that for kids, you should if
there's anything that they cando, they should do.
If they can reasonably do it forthemselves, let them do it for
themselves.
If you need to come in and givethem a little coaching and
assistance here and there,that's fine.
But typically if they can do it,otherwise they'll just become
dependent on you to doeverything for them.
So how can failure be reframedas an opportunity when it
(33:35):
happens within the safe supportof a parent's care?
SPEAKER_05 (33:37):
You know, I think anytime there is a mistake or a
stumble, right?
Part of resolving that is tosay, how did that happen and
what could we do better nexttime?
Right.
So whatever that failure is, achild failed a class or they
struck out of little league orthey didn't make the basketball
team, right, is to to help thatchild, you know, what steps did
(33:59):
you take?
What do you think you could havedone differently?
What would you do next time ifyou had the opportunity?
And so again, it's not aboutblame or shame, but it's just
about helping them make goodchoices, learn from mistakes,
and try to do better the nexttime.
SPEAKER_02 (34:15):
I think viewing them as learning opportunities and
teaching opportunities.
Anytime a mistake happens, it'sa learning and a teaching
opportunity.
One of the reasons I loveworking here at Cal Farley's is
I remember at one point someonemaking the comment that it's
okay to make mistakes and wewant our staff to feel okay to
make mistakes.
And for me, that took kind of aburden off my shoulders because
(34:37):
there's that that fear of makingmistakes.
But the moment it was like, no,it's okay.
Like kids are a moving target,humans are moving targets.
You're not gonna be perfect, andit's okay to make mistakes.
It that helps.
SPEAKER_00 (34:49):
I was thinking about the venue of of sports, and I
guess we're such a sportsculture now, it's hard to hard
to not think that way with thisquestion, Josh has brought up.
We're gonna you mentioned,Judah, that there is this uh
tendency that of well thingsdon't go well.
I I'm I I'm out for football,but now I quit football.
And then I went out forbasketball and I quit that that
(35:10):
quitting.
And it kind of develops a rutthat will follow us throughout
life, right?
If we're if we're not careful.
But I appreciate that when Iwatch people that really seem to
have this right, those parentsor mentors, and there's just
this wonderful communicationgoing on, eyeball to eyeball,
heart to heart, always affirmingtheir their worth.
It's not based on if you missedthe layup at the end of the game
(35:31):
at the buzzer or made it.
It's not based on that.
It's about your worth.
I I'm proud of you because ofwho you are, not how you
perform.
We're not gonna quit.
We're not gonna quit basketball.
You made a commitment to thisseason, and those good parents
will well, unless there's ahealth reason or something
beyond the pale, no, we're gonnafollow through on the
commitment.
So there's a great chance toteach how do you push through
(35:52):
adversity, even if performanceisn't going the way that maybe
that that you would like.
And so there's a lot of chanceto, as uh as we parent to uh
these are great teaching things,right?
Whenever we hit diversity, saywithin a score.
SPEAKER_03 (36:05):
You mentioned sports.
I think it's also kind ofinteresting.
If you look at a baseball playerwho has the most hits in a
season, they're often lead theleague in strikeouts as well.
They swing at more things thananyone, they take more chances.
And because of that, they'regonna fail a lot, but also
they're gonna have a lot ofsuccess as well.
I think talking to kids aboutthat, you know, giving them some
real life examples like that canhelp the view of failure as
(36:25):
well.
So, what are some of the firststeps a parent can take if they
realize they've been mowing downobstacles for a child?
SPEAKER_05 (36:31):
Josh has a lawnmower pair.
SPEAKER_00 (36:33):
Yeah, tell us, Josh.
SPEAKER_05 (36:35):
What uh what steps do you have planned for
yourself?
SPEAKER_03 (36:37):
I gotta let them do stuff.
And when we go to McDonald's,I'd instead of just ordering for
them, make them order forthemselves.
But I think that's it, that is alot of it.
It just kick my hands off thereins and let them just let them
do.
SPEAKER_05 (36:51):
Okay, we're gonna check in on you and uh your uh
we'll have a future podcastwhere we evaluate following the
invention.
You know, I think I thinkself-awareness is always the
first step.
So, you know, if if you'velistened today and you're
starting to realize that you'vebeen a lawnmower parent, being
aware of that, being aware thatit may have negative long-term
(37:13):
impacts for your child, that'sthe first step.
Also knowing that if you aremaking efforts to stop being a
lawnmower parent, but you'vetrained your child to expect
that, you're gonna get somepushback from your child.
They like what you've been doingfor them, right?
It it it it uh has made theirpathway easier.
So you're gonna have torecognize that pushback will
come.
And will you give in andcontinue to do that or can you
(37:36):
change your own habits?
SPEAKER_00 (37:38):
Growing up, we had uh remarkable young people uh
that I grew up with, and theywere the children that grew up
on dairy farms back where I wasfrom.
And and it's not now when youthink of a dairy farm, they're
big corporate-owned dairy farmswith thousands of cows.
Well, these were maybe as few as40 and maybe as many as 200,
just a little family farm.
(37:59):
Okay, so everybody hadresponsibilities, and you were
what did you say?
Whatever you can do, how'd yousay that, Josh?
SPEAKER_03 (38:06):
Whatever cow can reasonably do, they should do.
SPEAKER_00 (38:10):
That was the that was the rule of thumb uh on that
dairy farm, and it was reallyjust a matter of because it had
to, that those kids were waymore resilient, they were good
in the classroom, they they wereable to handle adversity a lot
better, they were just tougher,not uh in the best sense of the
term, tougher.
And because they just had topush through a lot of things and
(38:31):
figure things out and hadresponsibilities.
SPEAKER_03 (38:34):
So, how can parents walk alongside their child
during struggles withoutstepping in to fix everything?
What is so what does healthysupport look like?
SPEAKER_00 (38:41):
Because we're gonna make an action plan for you,
John.
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (38:44):
That was my whole method of this, or the whole
reason behind this is I need Ineed some help.
So yes.
SPEAKER_00 (38:50):
Listeners, thank you for joining us.
SPEAKER_03 (38:52):
Intervention.
Intervention, yes.
SPEAKER_05 (38:54):
I think you need support, you need a support
system.
So, like Josh, you've mentionedApril is not the lawnmower
parent, right?
So you've already got somebodythere like supporting you and
kind of pulling you back whenyour tendency is to step in and
fix that.
But I think it's important foryour kids to have support from
other people as well.
I've always been a proponent ofcreating a community for your
(39:17):
children so that they have otheradults who have similar values
to yours that they could reachout to for support and help.
And so those may be teachers, itmay be neighbors, grandparents,
it could be people at yourchurch.
But I just think the more thewider support system your has
your child has, the better.
SPEAKER_00 (39:37):
This uh now I'm preaching not to Josh, but to
myself.
It seems like this wholebusiness requires a lot of
patience, doesn't it?
Because I talked about thismight reflect bad on me, you
know, Suzanne, what you said, ormight have fear about safety.
Another thing is just a lot ofus have this unhealthy need of
control and need to be incontrol.
(39:57):
So as we watch our child dosomething, it might not be how's
this going to reflect on me?
It might not be that this isnecessarily dangerous, but okay,
it's gonna be a lot faster if Ido it or if I dictate to them
how to do it than if I watchthem struggle to tie their
shoes, right, Suzanne?
Yeah, it takes longer.
So it seems like one of thevirtues this really requires on
(40:19):
my part is I I really need to bepatient.
SPEAKER_03 (40:22):
So, what does it mean to parent with a long-term
vision of developing maturityover comfort?
And what encouragement would youoffer to a parent who wants to
make that shift?
SPEAKER_02 (40:31):
I really like what Suzanne said about the 18 when
they're 18 years old.
You have them in in your housefor 18 years, your goal should
be longer than that, muchlonger.
So you should be looking furtherdown the road.
And I think that's the point isthe idea is the the short term
isn't really a long-term win forthe kids.
And the goal should be, youknow, and I think having the
(40:52):
conversation with the kids aboutit too.
Like, hey, uh I recognize thatthere are some areas where I've
probably jumped in or I've donethis, and I'm going to start
stepping back a little bit.
I'm gonna let let you make somemistakes.
It's gonna be uncomfortable forboth of us, and that could be a
helpful deal.
Just the conversation and theopen honesty there too.
SPEAKER_05 (41:12):
My encouragement to parents would be to be
consistent.
And that's hard, right?
This changes about me as aparent that I've got to make
that that change.
I have to look at every decisionand ask myself, is this for
short-term convenience orlong-term goals?
And then I have to be consistentin applying those decisions.
SPEAKER_03 (41:30):
I think I would say too, in the short term, it may
get harder before it getsbetter.
Yeah.
It will get harder before itgets better.
I mean, I've been working onthis a little bit over the last
couple of years, and sometimes Ijust want to go back to making
everything happen.
But yeah, it it it does getbetter in the long run, though.
SPEAKER_05 (41:46):
You can do it, Josh.
We have faith in you.
SPEAKER_00 (41:48):
And you're gonna start by letting your children
order at McDonald's.
Yes, that's right.
That's right.
SPEAKER_05 (41:55):
Just to clarify for our listeners, how old are your
kids, Josh?
SPEAKER_03 (41:59):
Wow.
Old enough to be able to orderat McDonald's.
Thank you so much for listeningto us today.
Whether you be mowing your lawn,washing your dishes, or going
for a walk or driving aroundtown, we appreciate it.
Until next time, you may have toloan out your frontal lobes
today.
Just make sure you remember andget them back.
SPEAKER_04 (42:16):
Thank you for listening to Brain Based
Parenting.
We hope you enjoyed this show.
If you would like moreinformation about Cal Farley's
Boys Ranch, are interested inemployment, would like
information about placing yourchild, or would like to help us
help children by donating to ourmission, please visit
calfarly.org.
You can find us on all socialmedia platforms by searching for
(42:39):
CalFarley's.
Thank you for spending your timewith us and have a blessed day.
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