Parent Traps- When Love Needs Limits: Nurturing Without Caving.

Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_02 (00:00):
Welcome to Brain-Based Parenting, the Boys
Ranch podcast for families.
We all know how hard being aparent is, and sometimes it
feels like there are no goodanswers to the difficult
questions families have whentheir kids are struggling.
Our goal each week will be totry and answer some of those
tough questions, utilizing theknowledge, experience, and

(00:21):
professional training CalFarley's Boys Ranch has to
offer.
Now here is your host, CalFarley Staff Development
Coordinator, Joshua Sprock.

SPEAKER_01 (00:30):
Hello and welcome.
Last episode, we had such aninteresting discussion on the
lawnmower trap of parenting thatwe thought we would continue to
talk about some other commonpermissive parenting traps we
sometimes fall into.

SPEAKER_03 (00:40):
To do that today, I'm joined by Suzanne Ratt, Vice
President of Training andIntervention.

SPEAKER_00 (00:45):
Chloe Hewitt, Youth Programs Administrator, Sam
Sterna, Assistant Administratorof Reg Residential Communities.

SPEAKER_01 (00:51):
All right, let's kick off with our question of
the day.
Since we're talking aboutpermissive parenting, what is
something you permitted yourkids to do that your parents did
not permit you to do?

SPEAKER_03 (00:59):
I think that's a hard question.
For one thing, there was 30years of difference.
Right.
Like I mean, the the years thatI grew up in versus the years I
was raising children.
So many things had changed, butbut one thing that came to mind
is that I didn't really care alot what my kids were.
Like if they were in the middleof playing dress up and we
needed to go to the grocerystore, they could wear the dress

(01:20):
up close to the grocery store.
Like I didn't, I didn't makethem change to look quote
unquote presentable before youknow we went out in public.

SPEAKER_04 (01:28):
Mine is like a simple one, but it's really
true.
I permit my kids to have snacks,and my parents were very much
like all three meals a day.
Okay.
And so I think it does infuriatemy parents at times when they
come over.
My mom was also very regimentedabout what I ate and my sister
ate.
And I try to have more of abalance with my kids and teach
them more about what's proteinand what's a carb.

(01:49):
And so we have thoseconversations instead of saying
they can't have things.
Because I was very much raisedthat I couldn't have a lot of
junk food.

SPEAKER_00 (01:57):
I think mine, something simple, like we always
ate in the kitchen and here orraising my kids.
I didn't really care.
We we could watch TV togetherand we ate in the living room.
But that's not something we didas as a in my family growing up.

SPEAKER_02 (02:09):
How about you, Josh?

SPEAKER_01 (02:10):
So I was not allowed to watch G.I.
Joe or He-Man.
So with cartoons, I I've alwaysfelt like I missed out on some
of those awesome shows.
So I let my girls pretty muchwatch whatever cartoons they
wanted to watch.

SPEAKER_03 (02:22):
Did your girls want to watch He-Man and G.I.
Joe?

SPEAKER_01 (02:25):
You know, they actually did watch some of
those.
Yeah, we're all they're they'rebig nerds just like me.
I hope they don't listen tothis.
All right.
So we're gonna talk aboutpermissive parenting traps this
week.
So when the term permissiveparenting, or when I say the
term permissive parenting, whatcomes to mind?

SPEAKER_03 (02:42):
Yes.
It makes me think of parents wholet the kids run the show and
let them do whatever they want.

SPEAKER_04 (02:48):
Yeah, that's what I was gonna say.
They struggle to say no.
And so the kids kind of roll theroost.

SPEAKER_01 (02:52):
Yeah, I've always heard high high nurture, low
structure.

SPEAKER_04 (02:55):
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (02:56):
So do you think permissive parenting is more
common today than it was in pastgenerations?
And why or why not do you thinkthat's true?

SPEAKER_04 (03:03):
I think it is, but I think it's because I I feel like
I'm speaking for my generation.
So I think it's because wereally want to empower our kids.
And so sometimes we might go alittle too far with that.
But our intention is to allowour kids to have some more
choice or more voice than maybewe were allowed as kids because
it was kind of like beingraised, it was kind of like you
do it because I said so.
And it sometimes wasn'texplained or even choices were

(03:25):
never like given.

SPEAKER_03 (03:26):
So it may be a reaction to the way you were
raised.

SPEAKER_04 (03:29):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (03:29):
Right.
And that may be true for a lotof our listeners as well.

SPEAKER_01 (03:33):
How can permissiveness harm a child's
emotional growth?

SPEAKER_04 (03:36):
Well, I think we talk all the time, kind of like
what you said, Josh, that it'slow in structure.
And what we have seen is thatstructure is still very
important to all of us, evenadults.
And so I do think it's veryimportant emotionally that we
need to know our boundaries.
We need to have boundaries sothat we can be successful
because we all thrive instructure.
And so I think that it can beharmful if there is no balance
or structure or they have nobedtime or no idea of what's

(03:58):
coming next in the day.

SPEAKER_03 (03:59):
We've talked before in the past about safety, which
is at the center of our model ofleadership and service.
And one of the best ways toprovide safety is to give
boundaries and structure androutine and predictability.
Those things are necessary foryour children to be able to grow
emotionally, right?
You have to have that foundationfirst.

SPEAKER_00 (04:18):
I also wonder about how much, especially when kids
go to school or go intodifferent environments that
aren't the home, where theremight be some more structure
needed or required, um, youknow, for you make events or
maybe things that are like maybea little bit risky to do, like
roller coasters is something assimple as following the rules,
right?
And uh not that these peopledon't follow the rules.
I just think emotionally whenthey go to that place, how do

(04:38):
you how do your peers or how doadults see you?
Do you does it reduce the amountof positive interactions you're
having outside of the home attimes?
Also, parents are under a lot ofpressure, uh, I think too.
I think maybe today, not asmuch.
I think as a parent, me growingup, I felt a lot of pressure to
keep my kids in check and makesure my my kids are behaving
right and acting right anddressing right.
And I don't know if that'sdifferent today.
I haven't raised kids in 30years doing so No, it's still

(05:01):
the same.

SPEAKER_03 (05:02):
I think you definitely feel there's a
pressure for them to always acttheir best.
I think, you know, we had familyfriends who the mom was a
stay-home mom and it was relaxedin their home.
I'm not I'm not saying there wasno structure, but you know,
there wasn't a routine you couldgo out and play when you wanted
to or come in and color when youwanted to.
And when her youngest child wentto kindergarten and everything

(05:23):
was structured and routined,this child had a really
difficult transition into we docertain things at different
times of the day.
And it it was a struggle.

SPEAKER_01 (05:32):
So, what might be some signs that your parenting
has become too permissive?

SPEAKER_04 (05:36):
I think kind of like what Suzanne was talking about,
that like when routine orstructure is provided in it at a
church environment or at school,and then you're seeing outburst
or like anxiety or they justdon't know how to manage it,
it's because maybe there is nota lot at home.
And so then there's thebeginning to struggle with that.
I mean, I think tantrums arereal if they're told no, and
then there's a tantrum, I think,which some of that is very age

(05:58):
appropriate and normal.
I mean, we're gonna getresistance every time because
we're by nature selfish and wewant what we want.
And so I think some of that'snormal, but you're gonna see
some of that maybe on theextreme side.

SPEAKER_03 (06:08):
You know, it's the parent's job to create the
boundary, right?
To set the rule.
It's the child's job to pushagainst the boundary, to put
their toe over that line, right?
That's their job.
But but then again, in responseto that, it's our job to hold
that line and to hold thatboundary.
And so when you see that you'vetried to set a boundary and the
child not only pushes against itbut mows it down, yeah, then you

(06:32):
you may want to check yourparenting to see, you know,
don't set a boundary, don'tdon't set a rule unless it's
necessary.
But if it's necessary, you needto enforce that rule.

SPEAKER_00 (06:43):
I wonder if also signs that signs uh uh people
aren't always just gonna tellyou.
Yeah, like I think that's whythe question might be worded the
way it is.
There's gonna be signs, right?
And I was thinking I'll exexternally, right, the things
y'all said, and I might get anote from the teacher, or I
might, you know, get some looksor whatever.
But internally, how would youknow at home?
Maybe I was thinking that whatif your schedule's not running

(07:04):
the way you need it to be?
You're missing you're missingdeadlines or we're we're being
late to things, or man, thoseare some signs that maybe things
aren't going well.
Cause I I would imagine thatmost adults believe, hey, I
gotta get XYZ done, and I'm nothitting that because and it and
if you look at it, it's it'sbecause I'm hitting these
roadblocks constantly.
That might be a a sign for youto question, hey, maybe I'm a
little permissive.

SPEAKER_01 (07:24):
Yeah, it sounds like chaos.

SPEAKER_03 (07:25):
Yeah, it does.
Yeah.
I was gonna say if you feelchaos and you feel dysregulated,
that's a sign that yourschedule's not working, and and
you can see those signs in yourchildren that they are
dysregulated too.

SPEAKER_04 (07:38):
So we I have like a short story, but it's funny.
My sister and her two kids justrecently came to visit and they
stayed at my house.
And my nephew is almost three,and then she has a one-year-old.
And so my nephew would just godestroy each room, like to play.
He was playing in my daughter'sroom, and then my son's room,
and then the living room.
And it would so all the toysmigrated all over the house.

(07:58):
And so my dad was laughing at mebecause I'm like, he never
cleaned up a toy, and I was likeconstantly cleaning because my
husband's ex-military, and I'malso very organized, and so I
needed my house back together.
So I cleaned my daughter's roomfour times in one day.
And so I remember saying to mysister, I said, Hey, I think at
some point you're gonna have toevaluate at what point you're
gonna start talking to him aboutcleaning, because he is getting
to the age where he should beable to start cleaning up some

(08:20):
of his toys.
And I didn't want to offend, butI also wanted her to recognize
that if it doesn't startimplementing, it will just
become a pattern.
And so it was a conversationthat we had about teaching
because it is kind of purechaos.
But I think she is also a littlebit better about dealing with
chaos than I am in my own house.

SPEAKER_01 (08:37):
So, how k how might kids respond to lack of
boundaries?
What type of behaviors would youexpect?

SPEAKER_03 (08:43):
I think boundaries again make kids feel safe.
And and this is a story I read along time ago, but it seems to
fit, you know, there was anelementary school with a
typical, you know, chain linkfence around the playground, and
and the school had had beenbuilt like that, it'd been
operated like that for manyyears.
And researchers went in and theytook the chain link fence off.

(09:04):
And what do you think the kidsdid?
Like you might think they allran away, right?
But in reality, they all huddledclose to the building, right?
And they talked about where thefence was and and why was it
gone and was it coming back,right?
And their play decreased, andtheir verb, you know, they
verbalized their their anxietyabout that.
So they monitored the kids'level of activity and level of

(09:26):
play for the next two weeks, andthen they came in and they put
the fence back up.
And you might think thatimmediately the kids returned to
their normal play and theirnormal level of activity, but in
in reality, they stayed huddledby the building.
So prior to that time, thatfence had always been a source
of security for them, and it wasalways there until it wasn't.

(09:46):
And now the fence no longer heldpermanence in their mind.
It it will it be here today?
Will it be gone tomorrow?
Right.
And so towards the middle of theweek, some of the kids moved out
towards the playgroundequipment.
And by the end of the week, someof the kids, you know, they
might go as far as the fence,say if a fire truck went by.
But over the following twoweeks, they never really
returned to that level of playand activity that they had prior

(10:10):
to the fence.
And I just think that's a greatexample of the necessity of
boundaries in a child's life,right?
If I know that the adults in myworld are gonna keep me safe and
that there's structure that Ican function within, then I can
kind of let my hair down andplay.
But without that boundary,without that structure, I'm
worried about it.
I and I'm gonna show signs ofanxiety because of that.

SPEAKER_04 (10:32):
Right.
I I think it's so interestingbecause I think that they want
it, but it like we talked aboutearlier, they're going to
continue to push it.
My son knows that he can ridehis bike to this.
We have a trooper on our street,and so it's halfway to our
street, and so he knows he canride his bike to there.
Well, the other day he wentfurther than that.
And I walked down there, I waslike, What are you doing?
He's like, I'm watching thewater, it's peaceful.
And I said, Okay, that's fine.

(10:52):
You went a little further, butfrom now on, remember the rule
is if you go further than that,you have to ask mom.
You can't just break theboundary.
And so it's so funny becauseeven in moments, and it his was
innocence, but it's still aneasy way for me to see him from
my vantage point.
And so I do think you're gonnasee them push it regardless if
you're too permissive or not.
Like it's just gonna have times.
But there could be a good reasonbehind it.

SPEAKER_03 (11:12):
I do think as kids get older, you may see other
behavior, you know, refusal tofollow rules, right?
Because they weren't enforcedwhen when they were younger.
And so, parents of youngchildren, as you listen to this,
as hard as enforcing thoseboundaries and rules is now,
it's only gonna get harder asthey move into middle school and
high school.
And so you've got to set thatstructure when they're young.

(11:34):
But you know, that could alsolead to entitlement later on.
I should be allowed to dowhatever I want.

SPEAKER_00 (11:40):
And you do sometimes see those middle school and high
school kids with that attitude.
Yeah, and some of the some ofthe behaviors you see too, uh I
used to hear all the time ifsome if you're not in charge,
somebody's gonna be.
And so, right, sometimes uh forwhatever reason, there's no
boundaries.
Well, somebody's gotta be ableto answer the question.
If a parent's not around toanswer a question, then who's
next in charge, right?

(12:01):
If I'm by myself, I'm in charge.
And yeah, you know, andsometimes that translates to
other avenues or other areas oftheir life, like I said.
It's not, I mean, sometimesmaybe it's not entitlement,
maybe it's hey, I'm just so usedto making my own decisions and
taking care of things and youknow, doing what I need to do or
want to do that, you know, thatthat's the kind of behaviors you
might I might see out of thatlack of boundaries.

SPEAKER_03 (12:21):
One of Cal Barley's sayings was if it's good for the
kids, it's more work for theadults.
And I think we would all agreewith that, right?
And setting those boundaries andproviding that structure, it's
not easy.
No, no, y'all we would all agreethat parenting is hard and it
takes a lot of effort.
And some days it might it mightjust feel easier to be
permissive and let them do whatthey want, but it just it sets a

(12:43):
precedence for behavior that'sgonna be much more difficult to
deal with as kids move intotheir teenage years.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (12:50):
All right, so let's kind of break down some of the
more common permissive parentingstyles.
So the first one we're gonna sayis the caveman parenting style,
which a parent says no at first,but then they cave after a lot
of nagging.
How would you describe thisstyle of paint parenting?
How does it play out?

SPEAKER_03 (13:05):
You know, I think sometimes no is just almost
automatic out of our mouths as aparent, right?
Before we've even reallyconsidered what the child is
asking, no comes outautomatically.
And I can remember saying no tomy oldest child, and you know,
she's four or five years old,and she would go to her room and
and think about it, and shewould come back and she would

(13:25):
say, Mom, I'm not trying toargue, but number one, blah,
blah, blah.
Number two, like, and then shewould lay out this case like a
mini lawyer.
And there were times that I hadto say, you know, you've made
some really good points, and I'mgonna reverse my decision and
let you do that.
And so I, you know, just likeacknowledging that sometimes
we're wrong is okay.
I think that's good.
But one thing that can help youprevent that is to think, think

(13:46):
before you answer.
Yeah.
Don't make it an automatic no.

SPEAKER_04 (13:49):
I I also think explain, you know, I I try
really hard to explain my no.
I have both of my children arevery, very, very strong-willed.
And I say that's how you getthat prompt.
I don't know, but I say that,but also their teachers have
told me that.
So it's not just me saying that.
Like I don't think it's a but Ihave learned that I was a kid
that needed to know the why orwhat was behind it.
And so I have tried veryintentionally to give if there

(14:11):
is a no as to why it's a no.
But there's been times, likeSuzanne said, that I said it too
fast, and then I was like, Idon't know why it was a no.
I think it was just an automaticno.
And so then I apologized andsaid, okay, I think we can do
this instead.
And I've also tried to be betterabout if they say, Hey, can I
have this piece of chocolate?
Then I'm like, Yes, you canafter dinner.
And so instead of me alwaysgiving the no, giving me the yes

(14:33):
and when, because right, likeI'm not necessarily worried
about the chocolate.
I'm worried about them eatingthe chocolate before dinner.
And so what am I actuallyworried about?

SPEAKER_01 (14:40):
One of the things I heard about this style of
parenting is it's a lot like aslot machine and why slot
machines are so addictive.
You pull that lever so manytimes and you get the no, the
no, the no.
But at some point the slotmachine's gonna pay off if you
stick with it.
And that's what the kids do.
They get addicted to if I canjust keep pulling that lever at
some point, I'm gonna cash in.
And I think that's kind of whathappens.

(15:00):
We as adults have just so muchtolerance sometimes before we
can we cave and give them, wedecide it's just feels easier to
say yes.

SPEAKER_04 (15:07):
I mean, that happens too.
So I I think we've all hadmoments where we did this.

SPEAKER_01 (15:11):
Yep.
What are some common behaviorsthat could come from this style
of parenting?

SPEAKER_00 (15:15):
Well, they they learn that they can negotiate or
bully or which I don't know.
Well, the negotiating part's nota bad thing.
I think it's it's a cool skill.
I think they learn that whiningwins.
Yes.
Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (15:25):
And so sometimes we unintentionally parent.
And so we set up a structurewhere we've encouraged them to
nag and nag and nag to whine andwhine because they know
eventually they'll get that yes.
And so we've created that,right?
Instead of, like Chloe said, no,but here's the reason why.
Yeah.
And so sometimes you have tothink about, you know, your

(15:46):
style of parenting.
What's the outcome you want, butwhat's the outcome you've
unintentionally created?
I think it's also reallyimportant to remember that
you're parenting children foradulthood.

SPEAKER_04 (15:57):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (15:57):
That whatever you're doing in the minute may be the
easiest thing for you, butthey're only going to be kids
for 18 years.
And the bulk of their life isgoing to be as an adult.
Did you parent in a way thatprepared them long term for
adulthood?

SPEAKER_04 (16:10):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (16:10):
So what can a parent do differently to get out of
this trap?

SPEAKER_04 (16:14):
I mean, I think some of what we've already talked
about, like if you are giving ano, maybe giving it a reason
why.
But I also think it's okay tosay, hey, my answer is still no.
And I and I know that'sfrustrating and hard.
And maybe we can talk about likeit enough in the future, but
right now it's a no, you know,trying to explain it if you're
not, but then be firm on it.
And and you kind of have to sitin the ugly sometimes.
I think that's a difficult thingas a parent, is that we kind of

(16:36):
have to like let ride out thetemper tantrum when they're
frustrated, especially if you'vefallen into this a lot, you're
gonna get a lot.
But then the kids will fall intoa routine because we're all
routine by nature.
So it doesn't mean that youcan't reverse it in the future.

SPEAKER_03 (16:49):
I think if you anticipate situations where this
may happen.
So you you know that you've gotto go to Walmart and do your
shopping.

SPEAKER_05 (16:55):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (16:56):
And you have both of your kids in the cart, right?
You can probably anticipate thatthey're gonna ask for some candy
or ask for a toy that they seeat checkout or on the in-cap.
So in the car before you go in,you just do some prep work.
We're gonna go in, we're gonnafollow this list.
Today we're not gonna buy, blah,blah, blah.
Or today I'm gonna let you eachpick out one type of candy,

(17:16):
right?
But you set that foundation.
And I can remember with my kids,you know, as they got a little
older and they're tired ofhearing me give the drill, I
would say, what's the drill?
Before we walk in.
And then they would say it tome, which is just as effective,
right?
They knew they knew what thedrill was.
And so then you've already laidthat foundation before you get

(17:36):
yourself in a situation whereyou're gonna be tired.
You just want to get throughWalmart, and it's easier just to
cave.
But again, you don't want toteach them the wrong, the wrong
thing.

SPEAKER_00 (17:45):
Do y'all think it's possible that some of this is
guilt-induced?
Like sometimes parents parentsfeel guilty, yeah, telling their
kids no and that they're notgonna like me or or whatever.
And I somebody said it earlier,and I I think this is something
to think about.
You gotta think about the longgame, right?
Right now today, they're gonnabe a little bit unhappy about
the no, even if you explain it,even if it's the best, even if
you're front-loaded, all thethings that there's a little bit

(18:05):
of guilt that's gonna comealong, a little, maybe a little
anger or disappointment from thechild.
But then you, you know, my kidsgot a lot of no's, you know, and
a lot of yeses in their life,and you know, they don't even
remember all that stuff.
They they don't care about thatstuff.
They're now adults who can alsosay no to their children, which
which is a beautiful thingbecause they you said it
earlier, Suzanne, you'remodeling, you're we're preparing
them for the future.
So I encourage parents to notdon't worry about the long term,

(18:26):
as long as you do itrespectfully, and I think like
Chloe said, you give reasons.
I think that's the best you cando.
And sometimes it's for theirsafety, or you or you or you
don't you gotta vet the otherparents if they want to go do a
sleepover.
Yeah.
All that stuff.
Those kids don't even understandit, even especially if they're
young.
Don't feel guilty about it.
Say no for now, and and youknow, you can always turn a yo
no into a yes.
Something I learned here.
Somebody said you can alwaysturn a no into a yes if you

(18:49):
think about it and change yourmind.
It's easier than the other wayaround.

SPEAKER_01 (18:52):
Next, let's talk about the cotton candy parenting
trap.
Too sweet to say no, avoids anyconflict, prioritizes happiness
over discipline.
So, what does this style ofparenting look like?

SPEAKER_03 (19:02):
You know, I think that the term gentle parenting
has become popular over the lastseveral years.
And I think sometimes that'smisunderstood.
Right.
There's a happy medium betweenlike being overly severe, always
saying no, and then being caughtand candy.
Right.
And I think gentle is meant tobe that that happy medium, but a

(19:23):
lot of people fall into this nodiscipline that the answer is
always yes, that the thatthere's never a consequence.
And I think that the peopleproviding that kind of parenting
think they're being loving andcaring towards their kids.
But in reality, for the kids,that's very chaotic.
Kids' brains aren't built to bein charge, no, even of

(19:43):
themselves, until they are much,much older.
And so you can prioritizehappiness over discipline, but
you're not gonna be happy forlong.
The the family itself is notgonna be happy for long.

SPEAKER_04 (19:54):
Well, and I think too, when I think about this
parenting style, you know,that's also not kind of how our
world works, right?
Like we're gonna encounterconflict on a daily basis in
your job, in driving down theroad, you're gonna get conflict
in school.
School, and then evendiscipline.
Like you're gonna get disciplineat work.
If you show up late, you mightget a conversation, or you might
or at school, if you wear shortsthat were too short, you might

(20:16):
get discipline, right?
And so I think that it alsodoesn't really give them a good
picture of what life looks like.
And so, really, it might besomewhat happiness for them, but
then they're gonna get to aplace where it they're that they
can't control that, right?
Once they're in school or at ajob.

SPEAKER_01 (20:30):
So, what do you think parents could do
differently to get out of thistrap?

SPEAKER_04 (20:33):
I think set some routine and some structure.
I also think it's one of thosethings that you should always
have, you know, if you'remarried, have that conversation,
or even if you're co-parenting,like what are your kind of
guidelines and restrictions?
So that's conversations me andmy husband are always having.
Like, what is your like hardlines and what's my hard lines?
And then what are somenegotiables for us when it comes

(20:53):
to our discipline, right?
Like, you know, I've talked onhere before that it's really
important to us that our kidslook nice.
That's not everybody's point ofview, like that's not
everybody's point of view.
It is really important to me andmy husband that we educate our
kids on when to look nice andpresentable and to do your hair
and to comb it.
And so, and that's justsomething that is important to
both of us, but it might not beto the next couple or the next
family.
And so that's okay.
And so I think having thoseconversations about when it is

(21:16):
is appropriate to discipline andthen conflict, it's gonna
happen.
So I think being prepared andready to talk about it, even if
you because we we by nature dohave conflict no matter what.

SPEAKER_03 (21:25):
And I think, you know, where do kids learn to
handle structure and boundaries?
Yes.
You learn to handle that in thehome.
That's where the your firstexposure to structure and
boundaries would be so that youcan develop capacity and be
prepared to come up againstthose structure and boundaries
that are gonna happen, as yousaid, in the classroom, on a
first job, later in a career.
You know, sometimes we we haveall worked with employees who

(21:48):
were raised by this kind ofparent and who now work for our
organization and they're stunnedthat we expect them to be here
on time, that we expect them tofollow a dress code, that they
have to follow rules.
And that's way too late in lifeto be learning how you function
in in our society.

SPEAKER_04 (22:07):
And I I think what Sam said earlier was so great.
It's a you that you thought itcould be some of their own
parent guilt, right?
Yeah.
So I think we are parented in acertain way, which I talked
about a little bit, like aboutthe reason why I parent the way
I do, I think is some of my ownparenting that I had.
And so I think sometimes we wedo see the lens through our own
parent, like how our parentsparented us.
And so then we do want tochange, but you can swing too

(22:29):
far that way, right?
And so I know that I kind of doswing more to the permissive.
Like I have good boundariesabout certain things, but I'm
more of the permissive one outof me and my husband.
And so being aware of it andalso calling each other out.
My husband is very good aboutsaying, Yeah, I think you
shouldn't have probably like letthem have that battle, right?
And so, and same for him, I'mlike, hey, that was a little too
harsh.
You can give in a little.
And so just knowing where youlie on that continuum and having

(22:51):
open conversations about it.

SPEAKER_00 (22:52):
I'm not sure my family could have afforded to be
cotton candy parents.
I mean, I I was thinking abouthow I think you gotta think
about future, right?
Like we said earlier.
Who who can uh live like that?
I mean, really, I'm let I justand you you guys can correct me
if I if I'm off base here, butsaying no is important.
I think some things are unsafe.

(23:13):
I think some things areexpensive.
Uh I can't imagine, you know,some of the Lego sets my
grandsons wanted when they livedwith me recently.
I can't afford a hundred dollarLego set.
It's a beautiful thing.

SPEAKER_03 (23:24):
For small children.

SPEAKER_00 (23:24):
Can you imagine?
I mean, and they're just gonnaend up broken all over the
floor.
So I'm I'll go, okay, in themoment right now, yeah, you want
this thing, but I I gotta thinkabout my long-term, my my even
short-term financial impact.
We gotta eat today.
You know, and and so I wasthinking, who can do that?
You must have to have unlimitedresources.
And and I know all the no'saren't about all the yeses
aren't about you know financialstuff, but I think about safety,

(23:47):
I think about all that.
And it's one of those things.
Okay, so how do how does aparent maybe get out?
Is he think about long term,right?
Think about, you know, if yourfinances are great, awesome.
Buy buy stuff for your kids.
I think that's awesome.
But it you also got to thinkabout, hey, there's there's some
value to teaching a person howto accept a no or and for
yourself and your guilt.
I don't know.
It's it's a very complicatedthing.
Yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_04 (24:06):
I'm laughing because you know, I I have those
conversations with my kids too.
Like if they do get to pick outa toy, okay, you're gonna have
this, it's this much.
And so I'm constantly saying,that was that's too expensive.
That's not in your price rangeright now.
And so but recently he wanted myson really wanted to get the
same dinosaur he has that he gotfor his birthday last year for a
friend, a neighbor girl that wewere giving a present to.

(24:27):
And it was a big dinosaur thatwas probably like$60 that we got
him.
And so I said, Well, we can'tbuy that same one as expensive.
So then when he went to give herthe gift, he goes, sorry, we had
to give you that one.
Mom said the other one's tooexpensive.

SPEAKER_05 (24:37):
So terrifying.

SPEAKER_04 (24:38):
And I was like, I mean, it was, but I also was
like, and I was like, that onewas still$30.
I wasn't being cheap.

SPEAKER_03 (24:44):
And honestly was still a value.
You do that exactly.

SPEAKER_04 (24:48):
But I do think that's a conversation that when
you do so, when even when youhave a yes, you can put the
boundary in place, right?
Like if you pay the one toy orthe one piece, you so a lot of
times if we are going to thegrocery store and I know my kids
are gonna want a toy, I'm like,you get to pick a snack out for
the week.
You each get to pick a snackthat y'all want that mom won't
put.
And so that it I still likeallow them to have a yes, but
it's a this is your boundarythat you get to pick a snack.

SPEAKER_03 (25:10):
Yes, within these guidelines.
Yes.

SPEAKER_04 (25:11):
And so I think that if you know you struggle too far
on this, trying to figure outwhen and put a boundary with it
is what I would say.

SPEAKER_03 (25:18):
I'm just gonna say I've seen a lot of, you know,
kids who grew up with trauma orfinancial deprivation or had to
live in an out-of-homeplacement, right?
And then they grow up and whenthey're parenting their
children, they want them to haveeverything they didn't have.
Right.
And and I think sometimes thatfalls into this category is, you
know, I I was raised in a fosterhome and I was treated harshly.

(25:40):
My children will never betreated that way.
Or I wasn't allowed to havecertain things, certain toys,
or, you know, I wanted to playvolleyball, but that, you know,
we were told they couldn'tafford it.
So they go to extremes toprovide those things for their
children that may be a detrimentto the family's overall goals,
right?
Like Sam said, you still have tofall within the guidelines of a

(26:02):
budget.
And you know what that comesdown to is your parenting out of
your emotions.
Yeah.
And we have talked so many timeson this podcast about parts of
the brain and brain development.
And really your cortex, therational thinking part of your
brain is the part that should bein control of your parenting
choices and your finances.

(26:23):
And if it's not, that that nextpart of the brain waiting in
line to take over are youremotions.
And sometimes we don't make thebest decisions when they are out
of our emotions.
You know, another recommendationI might have is for parents to
ask themselves, yeah, where dothese decisions come from?
Am I making emotional decisionsregarding the care of my

(26:43):
children or the discipline of mychildren?
And if so, maybe talk tosomebody else.
Talk to, you know, anotherparent whom you respect or, you
know, your your spouse, afriend, and just try to come up
with parenting decisions thatthat are rational, cortex-based
rather than emotional orguilt-based.

SPEAKER_04 (27:02):
I love that so much because I think even if it's a
spouse or even a close mentor ora close friend that you feel
like can have honestconversations with, you know, we
had to have a lot of that.
My husband had a lot ofhand-me-downs growing up.
He didn't have a lot.
I was kind of the opposite.
My parents kind of kept up withthe Joneses and bought us
everything, bought us a lot thatwe were told no, but you know,
it didn't always do the rightthing financially, I think.

(27:23):
And so for me, it was theconversation of when we went to
buy my son's soccer cleats, myhusband's like, they can't be
used.
I'm like, he doesn't know anydifferent.
And so, and I said, and it'slike a$50 for a brand new cleats
for him that he's only gonnawear one season.
And so we finally got on theokay, he can do it.
And I said, now when he's olderin high school, you want to buy
him a nice pair, then great.
Like, but also I think it'simportant for them to see that

(27:45):
it's okay for secondhand stuff.
And then when they're done, wedonate to people who need.
And so that's the conversationwe always have.
But that was a place where wehad to talk about where his came
from because it really was hisown upbringing, and not that his
that our kids would go without,like that's still named brand,
but it's okay that it'ssecondhand, you know?

SPEAKER_03 (28:01):
Yeah.
I think that's important torealize we all bring our own
issues in parenting.
And again, sometimes you andyour your spouse or the child's
parent, other parents see itvery differently, and you have
to have those conversations.

SPEAKER_01 (28:13):
All right, let's now move on to the treasure box
style of parenting.
The parent who distracts orsoothes their child with prizes,
treats, and screens instead ofteaching them limits.
How does this style look andwhat are some common behaviors
that could come out of thisparenting style trap?

SPEAKER_04 (28:27):
You know, we call this the dangling carrot out
here, which means that we arebasically dangling a carrot to
get them, okay.
If you do this, then this isyour reward, right?
Instead of having itintrinsically in them that they
want to do the right thing.
And so I think that's kind ofwhat this looks like to me, is
that y'all are constantlydangling different carrots at
them to get them to comply, butthen there's no thing inside of

(28:49):
them telling them to do theright thing.

SPEAKER_03 (28:52):
It's very much about external control of the child
rather than helping that childto develop some internal
capacity.

SPEAKER_01 (28:58):
So, what can parents do differently to get out of
this trap?

SPEAKER_04 (29:01):
Well, I think just like what we already talked, if
I guess if it's screens, havinga structure around them.
So my kids typically know,especially on Saturdays, like
they're gonna get some screentime in the morning, they might
get some in the evening before,like before we do bedtime
routine.
And so that's kind of what ourstructure looks like, but
putting structures in place forthat.
I have never really been a bigfan of giving food as a reward
just because I think that thatcan be very tricky and and it

(29:23):
can also kind of set our brainto think that that's that it's
always a reward instead of justhaving it when it feels nice to
have a treat with like a cup ofice cream with a friend or a
coke, you know?
And so in prizes, you know, Ithink it's always one of those
things.
Like my son asked me thisSaturday, can we go pick a toy
today?
And at first I was gonna say no.
I said, Let me think about it.
And I kept thinking all day,like, what in me says he can't

(29:44):
today?
Like, why can't I just take him?
I'm off, we don't have anythinggoing on, he can pick one thing
out.
And he ended up picking asensory box, which he played
with all day.
And I was like, if you're gonnapick something, at least it's
like something.
So I think, you know, I thinkdoing it in special times, and
so not necessarily putting itwith the limits, so start
looking.
At how you can give the itemswithout that.

SPEAKER_03 (30:02):
You know, I will say that there were times that I
offered the purchase of a Barbiein exchange for getting your
vaccinations.
Right.
So I mean, you know, like we'veall done things like that.
But again, when you when yougive a reward or a prize every
single time, you're gonnadevelop kids who will only
comply with your request inreturn for a prize or a reward,
right?

(30:22):
It's very transactional.
And there are times that we wantour kids to take care of
responsibilities, like go doyour chores, go feed the dog.
And there is no prize for that.
Right, right.
That is a responsibility that'sbeen assigned to you as a member
of this family.
And each one of us haveresponsibilities that we take
care of because we're members ofthis family, not because we're

(30:42):
gonna get a prize or a treat.

SPEAKER_04 (30:44):
Yeah, my husband and I have real this has been a hot
topic with us lately.
We're trying to figure out atwhat point do we do an
allowance, do we not, because wefeel like it, we want them to
just do all the right thing.
Like right now, they have tocurrently clean their room and
make their bed and help with ourchickens.
And so I am struggling becauseI'm like, I don't know, all
those feels like things youshould do just to do the right
thing in our household.
And so yeah, it's been a hottopic of when we start doing an

(31:06):
allowance, do we do anallowance?
So I think you know, it's it's abalance of trying to figure out
when and you do you always dowhat you think is best.

SPEAKER_00 (31:12):
Yeah, I mean, also you gotta consider the why.
We we talk about that all thetime.
Why why am I doing that?
Yeah, what what creates that?
I remember sometimes, hey, ifyou're quiet at church, you
know, if you behave at church orif you do good here and you be
quiet in the store, like youknow, you hey, there's something
for me at the end.
You know, the problem isoftentimes, especially small
children, they can't they can'tdo that.

SPEAKER_05 (31:30):
Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (31:30):
They don't, I mean, they you gotta be a bit older to
to do that.
And if it doesn't work out, thenyou just got a mad kid because
then in their mind they mighthave done a good job and they
did and then you don't thinkthey did.
So it creates this extraconflict that doesn't need to
happen.
I mean, it's it's it's just it'sgonna create no no intrinsic
reason to do anything.
You almost become theiremployer.
Yeah, yeah.
All right, I'm gonna pay you todo this.

(31:52):
You know, I tried implementinglike a little pay system in my
house to get kids to my kids todo chores.
It didn't work.
I mean, then I didn't even takenot one opportunity to go make a
book to go put this over here.
Like that's gonna buy meeverything anyway, right?
And so I can I guess I was alittle bit like that growing up.
I didn't know I I was helpingraise other kids.
So, like I said, the guilt ofraising other kids, and I can
get all those kids to do alltheir stuff.

(32:13):
And my own two kids, I couldn'tget them to come to clean their
darn rooms, you know.
You know, dad's had it, youknow, now we're cleaning our
rooms.
But yeah, transactional stuffdoesn't really work out for me.

SPEAKER_01 (32:22):
I think one thing to acknowledge in all of these that
if you do them every once in awhile, I don't think that's
harmful or anything to be uhworried about.
It's when it's a pattern ofbehavior that it's what's your
go-to for every time a kid needssomething is is what we're we're
talking about.

SPEAKER_04 (32:36):
Oh yeah, I had some stuff I was like, oh, I've done
each of these several times.

SPEAKER_01 (32:40):
So all right, now let's look at the couch cushion
parenting.
Extremely laid back, hands off,just kind of hope the kids
figure it out on their own.
How would this style of behaviorlook?
And what are some commonbehaviors that could come from
that?

SPEAKER_03 (32:51):
I I definitely think kids will figure it out on their
own, but it may not be what youwant them to figure out.
At some point, the older kidsget they're going to take most
of their information from theirpeers.
Yeah.
And quite frequently that ismisinformation, right?
Like if you're, you know, ifyou're rel letting your kids
rely on on peers to learn aboutrelationships or healthy sexual

(33:15):
boundaries, then your kids areprobably not gonna learn the
information that you you wantthem to learn, right?
You don't want your kids to beparented by other kids who have
not fully developed cortexes,right?
You you want your children tohave good information that
aligns with your values and thethings that are important to
your family.

(33:35):
And again, your kids will learn,but you you may not be very
pleased with the teachers thatthey choose.

SPEAKER_00 (33:40):
Yeah, there also might be other adults that might
be willing to fill that role.
I mean, positive or negative,right?
I mean, I do think you know theythey might find a different role
model then or somebody else tolatch on to.
Good or bad, right?
I mean, I think a lot of a lotof adults are well-intentioned,
however, their values might notmatch your values or you know,
their way of thinking might notmatch your way of thinking.
And if you don't pour into yourkids, somebody else may be

(34:01):
willing to.
And you know, you got to thinkabout the adult child
connection, right?
Everybody, the kids always wantconnection, whether you think
they do or not, right?
Whether they're teenagers,especially teenagers.
I think some people think myteen doesn't want me around.
And that is not true.
It is not true.
And so they will, especially atthat age, they will go find
mentors, and if you're notwilling to do it, they'll find
somebody to fill the role.

(34:21):
Like I said, good or bad.
Uh sometimes it's very positive.
Coaches, you know, otherteachers, things like that, and
it comes out, it turns out okay.
You might feel a way as a as aparent about that, especially if
it doesn't match your values orstyle.

SPEAKER_03 (34:33):
I always felt like it was important for my
daughters to have other positivefemale role models that they had
a connection with and arelationship with.
And so I curated those people,right?
Some of them were women I wentto church with, it was my
sister, it was friends I had atwork.
But I kind of createdintentional opportunities for
them to interact and developrelationships so that my

(34:56):
daughter, if one of my daughtersever ran into a problem they
didn't feel comfortable talkingto me about, they were likely to
go to one of these othermentors.
And I felt a hundred percentconfident in the advice that
would have been given by one ofthose other mentors, right?
But I would not have beencomfortable with them choosing
their own adults.
I mean, I think they probablywould have done well, right?
But you know, I know that thatcommunity is important.

(35:19):
Yeah.
And so I purposefully createdthat.
I I don't have the calmness tobe a couch cushion parenting.
I'm way too much on the otherend of control for this to have
worked for me.

SPEAKER_04 (35:29):
Well, and I think too, they always look up to you,
right?
So like I think about simplethings like yesterday I was
working on some work and Iwasn't thinking at the time.
Like I had gone to my room,Austin was watching a soccer
game, and I was like, I had mycomputer out, my tat, and then
my notepad, and I'm working ontimesheets of all things.
I'm doing timesheet.
And then my daughter comes inand she says, Hey mom, I'll be
right back.
And she comes and she gets herplay laptop and she gets her

(35:51):
notebook and she's sitting onthe bed with me.
And I kept thinking, and but Ilook up and I'm like, Oh, you're
mimicking me.
But like I didn't even get itbecause for me, my kids always
want to be kind of around whereI'm at.
And so I didn't really payattention because I was so
focused.
But I think that's something toplay off of here is that they're
going to watch you and want tobe with you regardless.
So might as well join in.
And and the thing I payattention to on this one is both

(36:13):
my kids filled out little foursheets from Mother's Day.
The number one thing they saidthat I love to do with my mom is
play.
So, like both of them say, if Ican do anything with mom, it's
to play.
And so they want to be aroundus, like what Sam is saying.

SPEAKER_03 (36:25):
I think too that at some point, if this is your
parenting style, you're gonnaregret the time you miss
spending time with your kids.
As long as the days seem duringthose infant and toddler years,
you know, all too soon kids arein middle school and high school
where they seem to want to spendmore time with their peers than
you.
They grow up and they move away.
And so, you know, now is yourtime to establish that closeness

(36:47):
and that relationship, and andyou won't have that opportunity
later.

SPEAKER_01 (36:50):
Here's a real fun one the royalty parenting.
Children are treated like kingsand queens, never told no.
So, how would you describe thisstyle of parenting and what are
some common behaviors that couldresult as from that?

SPEAKER_03 (37:02):
I definitely think this is a style that leads to
entitlement, right?
And where kids think thatthey're in charge.
This might also be called likethe Disney style of parenting.
We talked before the par thepodcast about some of the Disney
shows you watch.
The par the kids are in charge,right?
It's made out to look like thechildren have more intelligence

(37:22):
and they are better decisionmakers than the adult, and that
the adults are kind of bumblingfools, in particular the
fathers.
But that's just not real life.

SPEAKER_00 (37:31):
I wouldn't have any idea what this is because that's
very far from my wife and Istyle.
Yeah.
I don't know.
It's just so it's weird.
It's very much in line with thepermissive parenting.
And I think it's nearly the sameadvice, but that that's gonna be
one heck of a reality check fora child.
Like I said, I think going toschool is a major milestone for
kids.
And that's if if you didn'tprepare them, that's when it's

(37:54):
gonna hit right there.
Wait, because their peers aregonna feel away.
I can imagine, I just can't youcan just you can imagine it.

SPEAKER_04 (38:00):
Well, in reality check, because like we all have
different strengths, right?
So once they start gettingaround the peers, there might be
like some areas that they arereally good at.
But if you as a parent have onlytold them they're great at
everything, once they startbeing around peers, they're
gonna realize there are peersthat are better at puzzles than
you or better at math than you.
And so really you can't be thebest at everything, which you
shouldn't be.
You really should learn fromeach other and grow.

(38:21):
And so this could be a reallyhard thing for them to grasp if
they haven't been told no.

SPEAKER_03 (38:25):
I I have seen this type of parenting typically, but
not always, right?
But with with only children, itit is easier to think you have
one perfect child.
I have seen it in children whohave been adopted and a parent,
you know, feels sorry for thatchild, or actually any parent
who who feels for some reasonthey need to feel sorry for

(38:46):
their children.
Maybe they have a disability ora a long-term medical problem,
or maybe there's been a death ofanother parent.
But parenting out of feelingsorry for a child, again, you're
parenting out of your emotions,and it rarely leads to good
parenting decisions.
It rarely provides the capacitythat your child is gonna need to

(39:06):
go to school, to get along withpeers, to get along with
teachers, to apply for a jobsomeday, just to function in our
culture.

SPEAKER_04 (39:13):
Well, and I think even for other adults to like, I
mean, I've had a kid tell my sonbefore, like, you're not gonna
win.
I win everything.
And I literally, which I didn'tdo, my husband did it.
He said, You go show him who'sboss, and he or someone.
But I'm just saying, because itinfuriated me even as a parent
or as another adult, becauselike, and that child was an only
child.
And so I think he was basicallytold near like, and so it was

(39:35):
hard because like my son doesn'thave a tendency to lie on that.
And so then when it does, you'relike, even another adult, I was
like, Oh, I don't know how Ifeel about that kid, right?
Like, so I think it causes otheradult and peer conflict.
Yeah, I think so.

SPEAKER_01 (39:47):
I have several friends and family members who
are teachers, and a lot of themare leaving teachings because of
this type of kid that they'revery, very difficult to control
in the classroom, and anytimethey have feedback that they
send to the parents, that theparents will jump on the teacher
and criticize the teacherinstead.
So it's very difficult for themto manage them in the classroom.

SPEAKER_04 (40:07):
You know, I've seen that even just being a parent,
like I've seen other parentsrespond to teachers that way and
it's blown my mind.
Or even if there is a peerconflict, how the parent is
always thinking their kid isalways in the right instead of
necessarily saying, hey, this iswhere my son could have changed
it.
Or so I do think that's verytrue nowadays.

SPEAKER_01 (40:22):
So I think this one has also grown over the last
several years.
It's the gamer parenting.
The parent checks out to playvideo games, just leaving the
kids unsupervised.
How would you describe thisstyle of parenting and what are
some common behaviors that couldresult from that?

SPEAKER_03 (40:36):
You know, you see this a lot when you're at the
mall and there's that play areafor kids, and the kids are kind
of going berserk in the playarea, and every parent is
staring at their phone.
Not necessarily on a game, butthey're checking social media.
You know, they're and it may bethat they just need a mental
break in that moment, a littlebit of distraction, but wow, you
you see it a lot.
And I think it it is verysimilar to the one we just

(40:58):
talked about where kids arebeing parented by kids or
they're interacting with kidsinstead of having interactions
from adults.
Any of you who have smallchildren have been in a
situation where that parentsaid, mommy or daddy, watch me,
watch me, watch me, you know,over and over and over again.
And they they like Chloe said,they seek your input.
Yeah, they want your attention.

(41:19):
And when you don't provide it,they're gonna get it from
somebody else, as Sam said,positive or negative.

SPEAKER_00 (41:25):
I mean, it's a very lonely place for kids when this
style is implemented.
I think there's gaming cultureis is big now, it's exploded
over the last uh years.
I I grew up gaming as a kid andI think, but I also played
outside, and then you know it'sit's so it's changed so much and
it's it's in it's in all partsof life now.
You know, like you said, on yourphones, everywhere costs money.

(41:45):
It some of those games also suckmoney to get to play a lot, and
then there's you know, they butthe kids are pretty much left
alone.
And what you'll probably see isis kids doing the same thing,
right?
Because well, it's okay for me,it's okay for them.
And well, I think there's somuch research, more research now
than when I was a young parentabout the effects of just
nothing but screen time and andhow that affects the brain and

(42:06):
connections and all that stuff.
So in fact, you know, it'sprobably one of my biggest
regrets is that I uh I I alloweda lot of games in my house.
I think it I didn't know, right?
You just don't, you don't know.
And you don't know, you don'tknow.
Hey, they're fine, they'rehaving fun, they're talking to
their buddies online.
Now I did vet that stuff.
Like, hey, you can't be givingnumbers.
You know, but it is a it ispretty lonely.
I think you know, you you lookback and you're like, hey, what
happened?
Like what what happened?

(42:27):
Where where's all thoseconnections and those memories?
Because at some point you getold, you get older and you start
thinking back, like, whoa, whatwhere's all the pictures?
Where's all the the stuff, youknow?
So I actually had a a lot to sayabout this one because of that.
I think my personal personalfailures, I think, uh as a as a
parent, you know, I think itcreates a whole lot of um guilt
for a parent too, you know.

SPEAKER_01 (42:44):
Well, this one's so hard because I think it popped
out of nowhere so fast and itwas something that we wouldn't
we just didn't understand orknow how to how to deal with,
and it wasn't a reality when wewere kids, the how big and
immersed it is into alllifestyles.

SPEAKER_04 (42:57):
So I think it's so easy to do.
So here hear me same.
I don't game, but my husbanddoes.
And so it's the conversationbetween us of can you do that
when me and the kids aren't homeor when they go to bed.
And so that's kind of ourparameters.
I think sometimes on Saturdayshe does it a little bit when
they are home, but for the mostpart, I we have talked about
putting parameters about when heneeds when he does it.
Cause he is a firefighter.

(43:17):
So his schedule, like today,he's home all day without me and
the kids.
So great, you game now, right?
Like, and then when it's timefor us to come home, that's
family time, right?
So that they don't necessarily,but it is hard for me in
elements because I don't reallyunderstand that.
I feel like to me, which I guesshe sees my working out this way,
I don't.
I think that's really good formental health.
But I think it's a waste oftime.
And so I struggle with why doyou want to just do that all

(43:40):
day, right?
And so it is his, but it is aconnection and a like
dissociation.
So I know that piece, but it'sdifficult for me because I feel
like it's wasteful.
And so I'm trying to put my headaround that.
I, you know, recently my sonplayed tried video games here at
work, not at home, because wedon't have any at home that he
can play.
Because my husband plays hisPS5, and and so that's but he

(44:01):
recently learned Mario Kart,which and so he has begged us
like, when can we get Mario Kartat home?
And we're like, Daddy and I arenot ready for you to have a
system at home.
And so when you come and it's adipped day that you have time,
great.
But you know, that's like once aweek when we're out at ranch,
but it's not at home.
But some of his buddies alreadyhave it, and so it is a constant
battle, I think, that we asparents and kids are going to
navigate the world now.

SPEAKER_03 (44:21):
Yeah, I have to you have to be aware too that like
it activates a reward center inyour brain, right?
And and for a lot of people whoplay, it's a regulation tool.
Yeah.
And so those things are notnecessarily in and of themselves
bad, but they have a time and aplace, right?
Like just like Austin's put aboundary around when he plays so
that he's not missing out onfamily time.

(44:43):
I think that's important so thatif you're a parent and you find
that you are checking out toplay games or to distract
yourself or that it's rewardingto your brain, you have to look
at that and say, is it at thedetriment of time with my
family?
You know, and start to put someboundaries around that.

SPEAKER_04 (44:59):
And I think what's important too, what Sam said is
that then it becomes like it'sit just shifts to what the kid
uses, right?
Yeah.
So it can be a regulation tool,but it can also be a
dysregulation tool.
My my husband's sister called meone day and said, I need advice
from you with all the stuff yousee.
And so I'm like, okay, what'sgoing on?
And she said, Well, one of mynephews, he got super upset at

(45:20):
14 and he has his own gamesystem and TV in his room, and
he threw the game system at theTV because he lost and broke the
TV.
And she said, So what do I do?
He wants a new one.
I said, You don't give him a newone and you also remove the
gaming system from his room.
I do not think that she took myadvice on that, I will say, but
that was the advice I had forher is maybe he is not capable
of dealing with that, especiallyunsupervised, right?

(45:42):
And so I think that you justhave to be aware of it and make
sure that you have conversationsas a parent, but also once they
start developing gaming becausethey do what we do, and so there
might need to be parameters oncegaming is put in the kid's life
too.

SPEAKER_00 (45:54):
Yeah, and I think I don't know if you've asked the
question, Josh, but we alwaystalk, we've been talking about
falling to the trap, how do youget out, right?
One of the things is there'sthere's casual gaming and
there's gaming gaming, right?
And and the gaming gaming, or Idon't actually know what the
words are, but it it can be uhalmost an addiction, even right.
And so that that's gonna createa whole lot of problems.
What do you do?
I think there's there if youknow if you recognize you have a

(46:14):
problem, if you if you recognizethe loneliness in the family or
the quiet in the house, it itmight be time to seek some
professional help because it itreally is mind-bending.
I they they really do researchon how to get you hooked to
these things, yeah, especiallythe mobile games on your phone.
They're they're built to keepcoming back.
You'll see the little energysystems.
I'm very versed in these things.
Yeah, they they're built.

(46:34):
Hey, I'm out of energy, I gottacome back and check in two
hours.
I gotta come back and check.
And then and then you'll noticethere's a social media link so
you can link your friends intoit.
And they went, hey, we can playtogether, but you're not really,
you know what I mean?
And it's just a new way to getsomebody else involved, and you
know, kids talk about it.
I remember trading games in inschool, even like we'd we'd go
trade video games and stuff.
And I think even back then itwasn't as bad because I think it

(46:55):
wasn't as connected as it istoday because they're making
friends online and all thatstuff, but it it's it really is
intentionally built to suck youin.
And so because of that, they'reprofessionals trying to get your
attention and your money andyour time.
You need professionals to helpyou get that back at times if
you feel there's a there's aproblem.
I do think that's the bestadvice.
So you won't get those yearsback that you lose.

SPEAKER_01 (47:15):
All right.
This last one I think has beenaround actually for a long time:
the pool drop parent, where itdrops the kid off at the pool or
the mall and just kind of letsthem off on their own for the
entire day to take care ofthemselves.
What does this look like andwhat are some common behaviors
that could come from this styleof parenting?

SPEAKER_04 (47:30):
I am only laughing because I feel like this happens
to me a lot where like otherpeople drop the kids off and
then I get like seven kids.
And I don't know why that is,but I both times when I lived on
campus and living off campus, Ihave neighborhood kids that like
gravitate to my house andsomehow I have eight kids.
I mean, I think it looks likethinking they'll fend for
themselves, they can handlethemselves.

(47:50):
I think you see it a littlebetter now just because of how
much crime, but I think it stillhappens some.
But I think really I think it'sthe parents wanting a break, and
so that's really what'shappening.
And they're just like, oh, letthem be free for a little bit,
is my perception.

SPEAKER_03 (48:04):
Typical kids get to be away from their parents
sometimes.
Yeah.
Right.
Like, you know, if they've shownthat they're responsible and
that they're developmentallyable to handle the situation,
it's okay for them to be away.
But you have to gauge that.
Are we talking about afive-year-old dropped off at the
pool and we're entrusting theircare to a lifeguard who may or

(48:25):
may not be observant or a12-year-old or a 15-year-old,
right?
I mean, it it depends on what'swhat's the age of the child and
is that is that appropriate.
Also, Sam mentioned thisearlier, but you know, there are
situations where you want to vetthat other adult in charge.
Right.
So, Chloe, you've been vetted byall these parents who, you know,

(48:45):
they know you're a pref, youknow, you're a professional in
the in the world of child careand they know you personally and
they trust that their kids arewell looked after with you.
But you know, the thealternative to that is you're
you're just dropping your kidoff with anybody.
That that to me is scary.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (49:01):
I I I uh I think this was kind of a thing when I
was growing up, you know, wecould go to the pool and all
that.
And uh so I still I wouldn't doit.
Like I I'm not built that way.
I'm I'm very uh safety consciousperson.
Everybody that knows me knows.
Um I'm always prepared forstuff, and I cannot, I cannot
trust other people to with mychildren.
I I just won't.
Plus, you know, in our last twoyears, we took a bunch of kids

(49:22):
to this to a to a pool whereit's like a big play area, and
you can tell which kids areunsupervised.
And you know, we took obviouslykids in care there, and so we're
all watching our kids, and thenthey're interacting with these
other kids who completely haveno supervision.
Oh, I should probably one of thethings as a parent is you don't
know what they're doing and whothey're interacting with, or
stop a big fight from happening.
And these unsupervised childrenwere just coming to the fence

(49:44):
line and antagonizing our kids,and they all want to band
together, and so like the adultshave to come in and so I'm I'm
trying to have this mediationwith with almost a rival gang
over here, you know, and andjust trying to diffuse a
situation when we got to do ourpart as parents, and and you
don't know what your kids aredoing out there if you're not
watching.
I do think there's a level ofhey, I can trust my kid to go to
the mall and go down to go get,you know, have a plan, have a

(50:06):
time, but this thing says for along time, I'm not sure that's
smart.

SPEAKER_03 (50:10):
We've all been at the mall and seen these roaming
groups of kids, yeah.
Frequently middle schoolers,right?
Yeah, yeah.
You know, quite frequently theirtheir behavior's a little
questionable.
And some of that is because theyget in groupthink.
Yeah.
Right.
So you've probably heard of thatteam term before, and it just
means that in a group, we tendto become followers and we

(50:31):
sometimes tend to engage inbehavior we wouldn't otherwise
engage in.
And so you've let your child gobe with a with a group of kids
where nobody's in charge excepta kid who is primarily operating
out of their emotional brain atthat moment.
So are they gonna beinappropriate towards the
opposite sex, or is somebodygonna suggest let shoplift?

(50:54):
Or, you know, I mean, thingslike that have happened where
they knock down an elderlyperson.
Kids in groups do things thatkids individually would never do
on their own.
I agree with that.

SPEAKER_01 (51:04):
So, what role does awareness of your parenting
style play into breaking out ofthese different types of traps?

SPEAKER_04 (51:10):
Well, I think when you're aware, then you can make
changes, right?
And so sometimes it's even aboutnot being afraid to ask people
close to you their feedbackabout like, hey, what do you
think my strengths are?
What do you think I, you know,my weaknesses are?
Like I said, I do that a lotwith my spouse.
You know, not everybody isn'thas a spouse.
And so it can be that you'reco-parenting or it can be that
you're a single mom.
And so I think asking people whoyou think are close to you.

(51:31):
I also think, you know, puttingpeople in their life that are
different is also reallybeneficial, not even so much as
the awareness piece, but ofallowing them to have other
people and role models to likelean up that you know are good
setting examples, right?
If they don't have a male rolemodel to look up to, then maybe
kind of trying to find someone.
I know we've talked about thatin other podcasts.
My son really loves to be goofy.

(51:51):
I wouldn't necessarily say thatme or either me or my husband
are that way.
My husband is sarcastic, drivesme crazy.
But my son is too young to pickup on some of that.
And so we have a really closefriend that's really goofy.
And so when he's around him, heloves to like enjoy that piece
of him.

SPEAKER_00 (52:06):
Awareness is probably the biggest thing
because uh if you're not aware,you just keep going.
You keep just doing what youwere doing.
And if you follow the tips or orfind that find a um clue or get
an idea that something's wrong,you're gonna know it.
Listen to your instincts, right?
Something's hey, somethingdoesn't feel right.
And that's the first step intouh getting out of the traps.

(52:26):
And I do think a little bit likeI think somebody said this
earlier too.
Well, I mean, I'm a blend of alot of these things too.
I've done all these things oneway or the other.
I'm not saying that I'm just oneof those things.
In fact, my my wife and I havegotten, we talked about it the
other day, we got into argumentsover our differences and
thinking, um, is this okay?
Is this not okay?
And that's okay.
You know, she won that fight.
And, you know, I think about ittoday, and I thought, hey,

(52:47):
because she won that fight, youknow, my daughter is better off
today.
I think uh, you know, andthere's some wisdom in
everybody.
And and Chloe said earlier, hey,seek, seek uh, seek advice from
others, from other people whohave lived it, who are doing it.
Remember a long time ago, I Ithink I said this in one podcast
before, I told Josh some advicejust because I felt like it.
Hey, Josh, never do this, right?
Never never do this.

SPEAKER_01 (53:05):
And it was great advice, actually.

SPEAKER_00 (53:06):
Yeah, and because I'm learning from my mistakes,
right?
And I can't go redo it.
Here's the cool part about it.
And this is this is what this iswhat I was thinking, and I'm so
uh I'm so motivated right nowabout it because I think if you
realize it, you can change it.
And I think you you always canun undo stuff.
You know, you can say, hey, I Iwant to take a different path or
I want to try something new, tryit different.
You know, listening to thispodcast, right?

(53:27):
Number one, there's so manythings you can learn about
everything.
We want you not to feel guiltyabout these things, and we want
you not to feel judged about it.
We want you to feel like, hey,you know, knowing now is always
an opportunity to change, or ifyou're listening to this and you
don't have kids anymore, you canalso tell other people, hey, I
heard this.
I I think you might try XYZ.
Because you know, one of thethings I I know about parents,
especially today, they're alwaysasking questions.

(53:49):
Everybody wants to do it right.
And I don't think anybody everdoes 100% everything right.
This it's impossible.
It's an impossible task.
I mean, I I still haven't foundthe manual to parenting.
I I don't know where it is.
Uh uh, nobody gave it to me andwe just figured it out, you
know.
I that's what I wanted to say.
I want to encourage you you guysout there to to to just learn
something and and know that hey,I can do something different
today and I can still do I canstill do great.

SPEAKER_03 (54:11):
And and luckily our parent, our children tend to
survive our parenting.
Yeah, we are yeah.
I mean none of us, Sam and Iboth have grown children, right?
We would neither say we madeevery decision correctly, that
we never fell into one of thesetraps, but our children manage
to survive and and I think theyunderstand we did our best.
They do, right?

(54:31):
That's our goal, is that we'reeach trying to do our best for
our children.

SPEAKER_01 (54:35):
I'd say also don't be offended if you get advice
from other people.
Sometimes it kind of stings alittle bit when you realize
you've stepped into thesedifferent traps and having
people give you somewell-intentioned advice, do
listen to it.
Also, be prepared when you startto make changes.
Your kids are not going to likethose changes initially.
Yeah.
And there may be some escalationin behavior as you're trying to

(54:55):
make these changes to help.
And if you stick with it andkind of get through it, it'll be
better on the other side.
But do be prepared that it isgoing to get worse before it
gets better sometimes.
All right.
Thank you so much for listeningto us today.
If you like the show, pleasetell a friend, a family member,
feel free to nag them until theycave, bribe them till they
listen, treat them with otherfun prizes.
This is the time that that'sokay to do that.

(55:17):
As always, you might have toloan out your funnel lobes
today.
Just remember and make sure andget them back.

SPEAKER_02 (55:22):
Thank you for listening to Brain Based
Parenting.
We hope you enjoyed this show.
If you would like moreinformation about CalFarley's
Boys Ranch, are interested inemployment, would like
information about placing yourchild, or would like to help us
help children by donating to ourmission, please visit
calfarly.org.
You can find us on all socialmedia platforms by searching for

(55:45):
Cal Farley's.
Thank you for spending your timewith us and have a blessed day.

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