July 15, 2025 • 35 mins
Ever wondered why ADHD meltdowns seem so extreme and hard to manage? The answer lies in a crucial but often overlooked aspect of ADHD—emotional dysregulation—which surprisingly isn't even included in diagnostic criteria.
We dive into some neuroscience behind these emotional challenges, exploring fascinating brain differences that explain why criticism can trigger an emotional tsunami in someone with ADHD. With approximately 80% of adolescents and adults with ADHD experiencing rejection-sensitive dysphoria, understanding these brain-based reactions transforms how we respond to emotional outbursts.
Through a real-life parenting example about screen time limits, we demonstrate practical strategies for navigating boundaries without triggering meltdowns. You'll learn why co-regulation (bringing calm to emotional fire) works better than punishment, how to teach responsibility rather than enforce compliance, and why narrowing choices helps ADHD brains make decisions when they're paralyzed by too many options.
Most importantly, we reframe discipline as teaching rather than punishment. The word "discipline" comes from "disciple," meaning to teach—and our goal should be equipping those with ADHD with skills to navigate their emotional landscape independently. We explain why consistency and repetition are crucial, and why working memory, long-term memory, and processing speed deficits (not just attention issues) create everyday challenges.
Whether you're raising a child with ADHD or managing it yourself, this episode offers compassionate understanding alongside practical, science-backed strategies to transform your approach to emotional dysregulation. Come away with tools to turn frustrating interactions into opportunities for growth and learning.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. Amy Moore (00:03):
Hi, smart moms and dads, welcome to this
episode of the Brainy Momspodcast.
I'm Dr Amy Moore and I am herewith Teri Miller, and Teri and I
just got back from a homeschoolconference in Denver, Colorado,
and I did a couple of workshopsrelated to ADHD.
And I did a couple of workshopsrelated to ADHD and some of the
(00:26):
questions that I got in bothworkshops had to do with the
emotion dysregulation piece inADHD.
It seems to be a real painpoint for sure and, oddly, like
emotion dysregulation isn't evenin the diagnostic criteria,
(00:47):
like emotion dysregulation isn'teven in the diagnostic criteria
, it blows my mind that it'ssuch a debilitating aspect of
ADHD not just for kids but foradults too with ADHD and it's
just not talked about enough andI thought we could have
conversation about it okay.
Teri Miller (01:02):
Yes, it's something that's really important to me.
I have kiddos that strugglewith ADHD in my family and with
kids that I have worked with inmy work in my career.
I hear that really frequentlyfrom parents that they'll come
in and they might be concernedabout oh, his grades aren't
going well, he's having troublein school.
But the bigger issue they'reconcerned about is behavior.
(01:23):
Is that meltdown, frustrationwith homework, pitching a fit
with homework, that kind ofthing, and I have definitely
dealt with that personally, andso I think it's a really
important thing to talk aboutand to just give parents some
hope and some, maybe someanswers.
What's really going onunderneath the surface.
Dr. Amy Moore (01:59):
So tell us about that.
And the prefrontal cortex.
And so the prefrontal cortex isthe CEO of the brain.
It's what's responsible forplanning and memory and
execution and reasoning skillsand the connections from the
amygdala and just the emotionarea of the brain.
Those are disrupted in the ADHDbrain.
(02:20):
And then we can also look atbrain scans and see that there's
not enough oxygenation to theprefrontal cortex right.
So that impacts reasoningskills.
And we can look at glucosemetabolism on PET scans and see
that the ADHD brain isn't asefficient at using glucose for
(02:44):
energy as a non-ADHD brain is.
I mean, glucose is the mainsource of energy for the brain,
so if it's not very efficient atusing its energy source, then
it isn't going to work as well.
And then there are somedifferences in brain volume
between the ADHD brain and anon-ADHD brain, so the ADHD
brain is a tiny bit smaller.
(03:04):
So there are differences in thebrain that we can visualize on
neuroimaging scans.
Teri Miller (03:13):
Can I go back to a couple things?
You said yeah, Just for ourlisteners.
They may be wondering the samething.
I am Okay.
So you mentioned prefrontalcortex not as oxygenated for an
ADHD brain, and so is thatsomething that we can do
something about.
Is that really affected by thedeep breathing exercises?
That kind of thing?
Dr. Amy Moore (03:33):
Yeah, that's a really good question that I've
never gotten before and I don'tknow the answer, so I'll have to
delete this part.
Teri Miller (03:44):
Okay, all right, let me feel it real quick.
When you say young, don waslike I was thinking, what do I
have control of?
And I was thinking of, oh, if Icould help increase oxygenation
with teaching some breathingexercises.
And then I thought, when yousaid the glucose thing and I
thought this when you presented,can I do something about?
So what if I have three daysout of the week that my child
(04:08):
goes into ketosis, that I dofat-based meals?
I don't know things like that.
Can I do anything about it?
That was just.
I wanted to jump on thatbecause I thought, hey, if I
keep wondering that maybe otherpeople are too.
Dr. Amy Moore (04:32):
Were you looking it up?
I love that question becauseit's really important.
Like we understand what'shappening, but then what can we
do about it?
And mindful breathing is oneway to get oxygenation.
And then physical exercise, andwe know there are tons of
benefits of physical exercise.
And we know there are tons ofbenefits of physical exercise
for any brain, not just the ADHDbrain.
That aerobic activity increasesBDNF, brain-derived
(04:52):
neurotrophic factor, which islike miracle growth for the
brain, and that is another wayto drive oxygen to the
prefrontal cortex for sure.
So that's a really greatquestion In terms of glucose
metabolism.
So in people who have hadtraumatic brain injury, that is
(05:13):
one hypothesis of recovery thatif we put a brain injured
patient on a ketogenic diet for30 days and then it forces the
brain to use ketones energy,rather than glucose, perhaps
(05:36):
that gives the brain a chance torecover.
In terms of a long-termstrategy, especially for a
non-injured brain, but just forADHD, we don't have any research
on that and while it's aninteresting question, it's not
something that I'm prepared torecommend at this point because
(05:56):
I haven't seen any research onit.
So I certainly wouldn't want tosay yeah, try that A, because
compliance is super hard,especially with kids, and kids
need carbohydrates for multiplereasons.
One, to produce serotonin.
So I think it's important tofocus on a well-rounded plate
(06:19):
rather than ketosis, unlessthere's an injury, and even then
ketosis unless there's aninjury, and even then that's
still in the hypothesis researchphase for brain injured
patients.
Teri Miller (06:29):
That's a really fascinating question, for sure
yeah, Just thinking about whatcan I do.
Dr. Amy Moore (06:36):
I'm so proud.
I do want to go back to.
I do want to go back to thatmindful breathing as something
that we can teach our kids anddo ourselves as adults who have
(06:59):
ADHD, and so let's talk aboutthat in a couple minutes when we
get to.
What could we do for thatemotion dysregulation piece?
But really, I just wanted toexplain some of those
differences in the brain to helpeveryone understand.
It just doesn't work the sameway, right?
But what we're seeing issomething called
(07:22):
rejection-sensitive dysphoria,and that is this extreme
emotional response to perceivedcriticism or rejection or
withdrawal of love.
Perceived is the key word here.
If we think someone iscriticizing us, rejecting us,
(07:47):
withdrawing their love from us,if they don't like us, if they
say something that feels likecriticism, then about 80% of
adolescents and adults with ADHDsuffer from rejection-sensitive
dysphoria.
So that instance will throw usinto an emotional tailspin.
So what might that look like?
Teri Miller (08:03):
for, let's say, my give a couple examples my
school-age kid, maybe 10, andthen my teenager.
What could that look like?
What am I going to be seeing?
Dr. Amy Moore (08:12):
Sure, so if you were giving feedback to your
child about their schoolwork andyou said this has a lot of
mistakes, you obviously didn'twork very hard, that could be
perceived as you think I'm dumb,you think I'm stupid, you think
I'm lazy.
That's perceived rejection orcriticism, and so that could set
(08:37):
a child off.
So that's one example.
Another example is when weimpose a consequence.
Teri Miller (08:46):
That's what I was going to say.
I was going to say what if it'snormal part of?
Dr. Amy Moore (08:50):
parenting, so a parent could impose a
consequence, and that could feellike withdrawal of love, that
could feel like you arerejecting me because I've done
something wrong, and thatpunishment feels way bigger than
it might be.
And so then you hit anemotional tailspin, and what's
(09:13):
happening in that emotionaltailspin is that the amygdala is
hijacking the prefrontal cortexright.
You're hitting fight or flightor freeze mode I like to call
that Hulk brain rather thanBruce Banner brain and then you
can't reason and you can't think.
And what we do know this isfascinating too what we do know
in the ADHD brain.
(09:35):
Dr Christina Ledbetter and I didthis really big study on more
than 5,000 kids and adults withADHD and we looked at their
cognitive profiles and what wefound was that working memory
was the most efficient of all ofthe cognitive skills.
Well, we need strong workingmemory when we are trying to
(09:56):
reason through options.
And so one of those thingsthat's happening in the ADHD
brain in that fight or flightmode is that we just can't
access all of the alternatives,all of the explanations, we
can't hold them in our mind andthen act on them, and so
everything becomes a crisis.
(10:16):
It's all a crisis, so what?
Teri Miller (10:20):
can we do?
I'm going to just throw out Ido this a lot with you, amy,
that I'll say real life scenariohappened this morning.
All right, so my youngest thatI have at home, the rule is that
they don't, in the summertime,they don't get on screens until
two o'clock because otherwisethey would be on screens all day
long, like for 10 hours,instead of if I say that at
(10:40):
least they maybe, then it's onlytwo to seven, only five hours,
but anyway, the rule, that's therule.
He's been doing this sneakything and getting up early and
playing video games before therest of us are up and around,
and but I hadn't caught him yet.
I knew he was.
I would see him shift away,close the computer.
This morning I walked out and hewas just headphones on, going
(11:02):
away, and I was like buddy,better that, you know the rule,
and so that's just it.
We've talked about this before,and so no more screens today.
I'm going to need to go aheadand take your computer and you
need to give me your phone, thetailspin you're talking about.
So what do I do?
What do I do as a parent?
How could I have done thatbetter?
Dr. Amy Moore (11:24):
Okay, love that example, love that example.
Teri Miller (11:27):
Oh gosh.
Dr. Amy Moore (11:29):
That's actually a big example, right?
That is not just hey, maybe youcould have said it this way.
That actually goes back to whyis that boundary the way it is,
and you explained that a littlebit, right, you're worried that
they're going to spend all day,every day, on screens.
So did you come up with thatboundary and that rule alone, or
(11:52):
was that a conversation withyour kids?
Teri Miller (11:55):
It was actually a conversation, because we talked
about how many hours do youthink is appropriate?
And they said summertime maybefour to five hours.
And then we observed it a fewtimes and discussed it, and they
agreed that when they startedscreens at 10, it was very
difficult and they were angry tostop screens after four or five
(12:17):
hours.
Okay, so we did discuss it.
Dr. Amy Moore (12:20):
So then how did you determine that 2 pm was
appropriate or would be theboundary?
Teri Miller (12:27):
It was just.
That's usually when rainstormscome, the mountains of Colorado,
and so that's when, hey, youcould be out riding bikes, you
could be hiking, whatever, butby 2, it's come on in, it's
going to be a yucky afternoonokay, so that was part of the
conversation, though.
Dr. Amy Moore (12:41):
Uh-huh, yeah, we talked it out, okay, um, and
then did you talk ahead of time.
Hey, what happens if you guysdon't honor this foundry?
Teri Miller (12:50):
yep okay and what did you come up with?
The third three strikes you'reout Like the first time it's
okay, we forget Second time.
Hey, I understand, I know it'sreally hard.
Third time, you lose yourscreens for the day.
Dr. Amy Moore (13:04):
And then did you clearly identify what screens
were Uh-huh.
Okay, so phones were part ofthat, yep.
Teri Miller (13:12):
Okay For the two little ones, because they don't
have service, their phones areonly for games.
Little fun things.
Dr. Amy Moore (13:20):
Okay, so it doesn't act as a connection
piece.
So, listeners, the reason why Iasked her about phones is that
I'm not a couple of otherepisodes, but phones are a way
that our kids can be connectedto people that they love, and
(13:42):
connection is the number onebuffer against mental health
crisis.
You hear me say that all thetime, and so my advice is not to
use a phone as a punishment.
But, in short case, the phonedoes not connect them with
anyone, it's just for gameplay,right?
Teri Miller (13:57):
Yeah, because we're talking like 11, 12.
Yeah, and so my teenage kids,and you know what.
I may have done this because ofyour influence, amy, because I
think I used to when phones werenewer, with my older kids,
because I have a kid that'sturning 30.
So I've had a lot of it.
But when they were newer, inour home, I would do that you
lose your phone.
(14:17):
That's a privilege and I wouldtake the phone away.
And somewhere along the pastseveral years and I'm sure it's
because of you I was like thatis not a good idea.
And so, from my boys my sonthat's 21 on down, I don't, I do
not.
Once they have that connection,I won't take it away, and
(14:37):
sometimes I'll.
I'm sorry for that.
Once they have that connection,I won't take it away, and
sometimes I'll.
I'm sorry for that, thank you.
Dr. Amy Moore (14:43):
So all right.
So it sounds like you did aphenomenal job, terry, with
having the discussion, problemsolving with the kids as a group
, having them come up with whatthose limits are going to look
like when those limits start.
So great job.
So then let's talk about thismorning specifically, instead of
(15:05):
saying to your child okay, giveme everything.
You've broken the rule.
Three strikes, you're out.
How could you have turned thatinto a conversation?
Three strikes you're out.
Teri Miller (15:20):
How could you have turned that into a conversation?
I could have said do youremember what the rule is?
Can you tell me what our ruleis Exactly?
And then have him say it.
Dr. Amy Moore (15:27):
Yeah, so then he identifies that he's broken the
rule.
Teri Miller (15:32):
And so then you would say and do you remember
what the consequence was?
Buddy yeah.
Dr. Amy Moore (15:39):
I did not do that .
Instead of you taking it away,say so.
You need to put it away, likeyou all determined.
Teri Miller (15:48):
Agreed, yeah, even I could have even asked him
where would you like to, wheredo you like to put your computer
and phone for the day?
Absolutely, oh Mick.
Dr. Amy Moore (16:06):
Because then what that does is it puts the
responsibility solely on him.
Right, he helped problem solve,he helped create that boundary
with the kids, and so you'restill leaving him with that
responsibility.
Then, okay, you've identifiedthat you've broken this rule
three times, and now you knowwhat the consequence is, so I
need you to take care of it.
Okay, you've identified thatyou've broken this rule three
times, and now you know what theconsequence is, so I need you
to take care of it.
Teri Miller (16:21):
Yeah.
Dr. Amy Moore (16:22):
And then he still may do it kicking and screaming
, but it's still on him.
You made the choice, thereforeyou need to so.
Teri Miller (16:35):
So even if I had done that well and I think even
if I had done that better, Ijust knowing what's been going
on I think he would have had ameltdown anyway because of that.
Anytime I have to ask more thanonce about something, or it's
very upsetting to him.
So once that tailspin happens,how should I handle?
Dr. Amy Moore (16:56):
it so you can't co-regulate from another room.
I always say that, andco-regulation is bringing our
calm to their fire.
So when they are emotionallydysregulated, they're upset,
they're in an emotional tailspin.
It's our responsibility to staycalm and close and present.
(17:18):
We can validate.
Hey, I know that was reallyupsetting.
I'm sorry that you're gonnahave to find something else to
do today, so I know that's tough.
So you can validate whatthey're going through.
I'm here if you need something,okay I did not do that either.
It's hard right, but so what didyou do?
Teri Miller (17:39):
I was heading, I just needed to head out the door
, okay, and I was taking myother two kids to their theater
camp and I just had to go, andso I was like, let's you know, I
didn't do that like hand themover, and so I just took them
with me, I literally broughtthem to the car with me, it just
just was in a hurry, yeah, so Ijust wasn't in a position to
sit with them.
That's not always true, butthat does happen sometimes,
(18:03):
where the meltdown happens whenyou've got to get in the car and
go and yeah.
Dr. Amy Moore (18:08):
Yeah, Did he get in the car with you or he was he
got?
Teri Miller (18:11):
No, he stayed.
Dr. Amy Moore (18:13):
So you.
So then you have a couple otheroptions.
So it's not a health or safetyissue, meaning there's not an
emergency happening.
You could have chosen to ignoreit and address it tonight, when
you get home from work, whenyou do have time to sit with the
(18:34):
fire.
That he's going right, so youcould have just patted him on
the head, kissed him goodbye,whatever it is.
You do have time to sit withthe fire, that he's going right,
so you could have just pattedhim on the head, kissed him
goodbye, whatever it is you do,and come on to work and then,
when you got home, say, hey, weneed to chat.
I noticed this morning that youwere playing video games, and
(18:55):
can you remind me what the ruleis for that and had the
conversation tonight when youhave time then, to also hold
space for the big feelings thatcome after.
Yeah, if it's a health orsafety emergency, you can't do
that, right.
Sometimes you're just going tohave to swoop in, solve the
problem, fix it, change theenvironment, whatever it is.
(19:18):
But that was not an emergency.
It is a conversation that couldhave waited until you had time
to fully explore the fallout.
Yes, not do anything wrong.
We're just talking about likehow do we make this easier in
the long term for us as parentsand for our kids to be able to
(19:40):
learn A how to honor boundariesand rules, but also what to do
with the big emotions?
Like, you left him with his bigemotions and he doesn't know
what to do with them now.
That's tough, yeah, but we alldo it.
We've all done it.
Yeah, but we all do it.
We've all done it.
Yeah, we've all dragged ourkids kicking and screaming into
(20:01):
the car because we're runninglate, pushed them out of the car
on the school curb because wehave to get to work Right.
Like we mess them up, we screwthe kids up.
Even though we're experts inpsychology, we still screw our
kids up right Because we'rehuman and so we have to show
ourselves grace for that and dothe repair work if we need to.
Teri Miller (20:23):
The learning.
I think this is so great.
This conversation is amazingbecause this was a practical
situation and my head is goingwith the ways I could have done
it different and the way I'mgoing to do it different next
time, because I don't want toput this on.
I mean, it's probably somethingsimilar is going to happen,
like tomorrow, but I'm learning.
So, as long as I'm learning, aslong as I knew it was
(20:47):
uncomfortable, I knew somethingwasn't right and I didn't handle
it well and gosh, that's reallygreat help.
Dr. Amy Moore (20:56):
Gosh, that's really great help.
Yeah, and I think that's all wecan do is debrief or reflect on
the interaction and theexchange and our decisions and
say, okay, what do we value asparents, what is important to us
in terms of parenting, what dowe hope that our kids take away
(21:19):
from their childhood?
And then we have to askourselves, okay, is how I
handled that this morningconsistent with what I value as
a parent?
And so that's hard right, likewhere we really have to break
down.
Okay, do we want our kids to beloving and kind and empathetic
and contributing members tosociety?
(21:41):
Like, what is it that we value?
And then, what do we want outof our relationship with our
kids?
Right, I want my kid to feelloved unconditionally.
I want my kid to know that, nomatter what they do, I still
love them, whatever yourparenting values are.
And then when you debrief okay,how'd I handle that this morning
(22:03):
?
Are there holes in that?
Did you detour?
I like to call this it choicepoint.
I adapted that idea fromacceptance and commitment
therapy, right?
So a choice point wherewhatever I do or say is either
leading me, pointing me towardswhat I value, or away from what
I value, if you can visualizethat as a fork in the road, then
(22:27):
you're able to say, okay, thatwas moving me away from what I
value as a parent, so how couldI do it differently next time so
that it moves me towards what Ivalue as a parent?
Teri Miller (22:38):
Hey, I've got some repair to do this evening, but
I'll have to let you knowpersonally how that goes
tomorrow.
Dr. Amy Moore (22:45):
I would love to know that.
Teri Miller (22:46):
I want to ask another different ADHD question.
So you talked about workingmemory as a big issue in the
ADHD brain and so another thingthat I see in one of my
different kids ADHD kids,teenage gal she really struggles
making decisions and like forher birthday even things that
(23:08):
she could do whatever she wants.
She'll just wait till the lastminute.
She'll be like I don't know ifI want to do a bonfire with my
friends, I'm not sure, and Idon't know if they can all come
and she just hems and haws forweeks and she can't seem to make
a decision.
What's going on with that andhow can I help her?
That's a great question.
Dr. Amy Moore (23:26):
Okay, so let me tell you the difference in how
ADHD brains make decisions andnon-ADHD brains make decisions.
So if you don't have ADHD andyou're faced with a decision,
you typically choose the mostimportant thing to focus on or
to do first, then the next mostimportant thing and then
(23:48):
probably something that mighthave a reward attached.
That's normally the order inwhich we would choose something.
In the ADHD brain, everythingis important, all options look
the same, and in the absence ofthat ability to rack and stack
what's more important or what welike more or what would be more
(24:11):
rewarding, because we can'tdifferentiate it's all important
, so then it paralyzes us.
So if you've got so manychoices, then no choice is going
to happen because we just can'tdecide which one is better, and
(24:33):
so in that case it's probablybest to narrow those choices
down.
So if you notice that you knowyour child's paralyzed by this
open-ended invitation, you couldsay hey, I noticed that you're
having trouble picking something.
(24:54):
Would you like some ideas?
And then maybe she'll say sure,and then have three ideas that
you could offer.
Teri Miller (25:05):
Okay.
Dr. Amy Moore (25:14):
And you could also help her determine pros and
cons for each of those ideas,because then, when we start to
break down the options, then itmakes it a little bit easier to
choose.
Teri Miller (25:21):
Okay, just yeah.
An example was the birthdaything.
It's been a while back, butwhat you're saying is what we
went through.
But I, the way I thought of it,as my brain was processing it
as process of elimination, thatI was helping her do that
process of elimination and sothat I was able to be like, okay
, if you had to choose betweenonly doing something with your
(25:41):
two best friends or having yourwhole theater group friends,
over which would you choose?
And she was able to.
Pretty quickly she narrowed itdown like process of elimination
, so each thing, and thenultimately she did land on the
bonfire, but I should have donethis process much earlier
because my pen was like two daysbefore.
But I feel like that's the samething that you're saying Narrow
(26:03):
her choices.
Dr. Amy Moore (26:05):
Yes, and there's a chance that when you give
three choices instead of anopen-ended choice, that none of
those will seem exciting, thenyou say would you like three
more choices or do you want tobreak down the pros and cons of
these first?
And so you just have to be thecoach or the guide on the side
(26:30):
when you have thoseconversations.
The good news is the successthat she will feel at the end,
that she's actually chosensomething that creates a new
neural pathway.
that is what narrowing downchoices feels like yeah and then
(26:52):
the hope is the next time shemight be able to apply that same
technique.
Or you might have to do thatthree, four, five, six, 12 more
times with her, right before shestarts to say, okay, last time,
this is how I made a decision.
So it becomes a process thatthe ADHD brain learns, rather
(27:16):
than it being a natural rack andstacking of priorities.
Teri Miller (27:21):
Okay, that's so good, and why, as parents, do we
so often think?
I told you that once and wetalked about it again last week,
and so why are you fixing it?
And yet, if we think abouttoddlers, kids learning to talk,
whatever, we have to go overplease and thank yous a million
times before it really sticksand before you'll have that
moment where they open somethingat Christmas and look up and go
(27:43):
, thank you.
Dr. Amy Moore (27:46):
And again so, that same study that I mentioned
before that working memory wasthe most efficient skill.
We actually identified threedeficient cognitive skills.
It was working memory,long-term memory and processing
speed.
So, applied to this scenario,you have to be able to hold all
(28:09):
of the options in your mind atthe same time that's working
memory and act on them, which ismaking a choice.
You have to do it in areasonable amount of time, right
, that's a processing speedissue.
And the long-term memory piececomes in when you have to
remember how did I solve asimilar situation the last time,
(28:30):
or how much did I enjoy asimilar experience, right?
So when you're having troubleretrieving memories, when you're
having trouble holding optionsin your mind to act on them, and
because your processing speedis slow, right, that gives you
even more opportunity to forgetwhat's in your mind.
Right, because it's taking toolong to make the decision.
(28:52):
So we have to come behind andsupport all of that.
Interestingly, this has nothingto do with attention, did you
notice?
Teri Miller (29:00):
It's so interesting Because the attention is a
symptom right of the realunderlying cognitive skill
problem.
Dr. Amy Moore (29:08):
Yeah, we automatically think because
hello, it's named wrongattention, attention deficit
disorder, when we don't have adeficit of attention, we have
too much attention.
We pay attention to everything,like I'm saying all options are
important or everything's acrisis right.
We pay attention to it all tothe point where it's paralyzing
(29:29):
or we have an emotional meltdown.
So if we don't look atstrengthening or plussing up or
supporting memory and processingspeed, then we're going to have
this same conversation againand again.
Teri Miller (29:44):
Okay, gosh, this is just.
This is so important, thesekinds of conversations and
learning, listening to podcasts,reading books, just as a parent
, because if we're notintentional, it is way too easy
to just be impatient, to thinkthe behavior's the issue.
You're just rebellious, you'rejust disrespectful, all these
things that we do that we tendto shake our head, shake them
(30:10):
and shake our heads that reallywe can first of all have
compassion.
I love that you made that thefirst, number one issue, so that
I can take that breath andthink he's not doing this on
purpose, it's.
This is really a struggle forhim.
But then, number two, I'm notgoing to let that be an excuse
and say he's not doing it onpurpose, that's just his ADHD
(30:32):
brain, that's just what'shappening.
So I'll just let him continueacting that way because that's
not preparing him for the realworld.
And so then you're giving ussome solutions, practical
solutions, and I think that's sovaluable.
Dr. Amy Moore (30:47):
Yeah, and I think it's super important too, when
you're parenting withconsequences, to ask yourself
what lesson does thisconsequence give my child?
Because we think of disciplineas punishment, when really the
word discipline comes from theword disciple, which means to
(31:07):
teach, and so we want to teachour kids.
Hey, this is how you problemsolve, this is how you decide
whether you are going to actthis way versus that way.
Right, we want our kids to dothe right thing because it's the
right thing to do, not becausethey are afraid of being
(31:28):
disciplined or punished, becausethat actually doesn't prepare
them for the real world.
Right, what prepares them forthe real world is critical
thinking skills, problem-solvingskills, that ability to talk
through options and then be ableto choose the best one.
(31:49):
And so I like to recommend thateverything is a conversation
first.
Everything is a conversationfirst, unless it's a safety
emergency.
Your kid's in the middle of thestreet.
You better go get your kid outof the street.
That is not a conversation, butthat's an emergency.
Most things are not emergencies, and so we have to recognize
(32:11):
parenting young children istemporary, and so we have to
recognize parenting youngchildren is temporary and it
does take extra time to haveconversation.
It's a whole lot easier just toimpose a consequence.
Yeah, but does that equip themfor?
Teri Miller (32:29):
not doing it again.
It's about takingresponsibility.
Not doing it again.
It's about takingresponsibility, and I love that
that.
I need to do better with mykiddo to ask him what was the
rule.
Let him take responsibility forwhat we talked about, and
that's huge, because then that'sthat is teaching that personal
responsibility, which then itapplies to everything.
(32:49):
It's not just this one issue,it's not just about screens to
everything.
It's not just this one issue.
It's not just about screens orscreen time.
It's about their rules thathave consequences and you need
to be personally responsible forthem.
Dr. Amy Moore (33:00):
Yeah.
Another alternative could havebeen you have this time limit
that you all decided wasreasonable, and so when you come
downstairs and you see yourchild starting early, you could
say, hey, I noticed that you arestarting early today, so what
(33:23):
time will you need to turn thatoff to make sure that you are
within your time limit for theday?
Yeah, so that then it teachesyour child.
Okay, there's more than one wayto honor the boundary or honor
that limit, and I made thedecision to start early, which
(33:44):
means I have to be done earlierthan everybody else.
Teri Miller (33:47):
Yeah, that would be good too.
It makes me want to rethinkeven our little summer plan,
like maybe revisit theconversation with them, because
what if it is that he reallywants that time all alone in the
morning?
What if that's important to himand I need to ask him and find
that out and revisit it?
Just because we decided at oncedoesn't mean that it's still
holding true mid-July.
Dr. Amy Moore (34:08):
Absolutely.
I think you just nailed it thatflexibility will lower the
temperature on your frustration,and it honors your child's
ability to change his mind aboutsomething, and so I think you
nailed it.
All right, good stuff, goodstuff, all right.
(34:30):
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catch us on our website at theBrainy Moms.
Be sure to check out oursponsor, learningrx.
We talk about those cognitiveskills working memory, long-term
(34:51):
memory and processing speedbeing deficient in ADHD.
Adhd more than attention, andthat's exactly what LearningRx
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Thanks for tuning in, guys.
We're going to catch you nexttime.
Hi, smart moms and dads, welcome to this
episode of the Brainy Momspodcast.
I'm Dr Amy Moore and I am herewith Teri Miller, and Teri and I
just got back from a homeschoolconference in Denver, Colorado,
and I did a couple of workshopsrelated to ADHD.
And I did a couple of workshopsrelated to ADHD and some of the
(00:26):
questions that I got in bothworkshops had to do with the
emotion dysregulation piece inADHD.
It seems to be a real painpoint for sure and, oddly, like
emotion dysregulation isn't evenin the diagnostic criteria,
(00:47):
like emotion dysregulation isn'teven in the diagnostic criteria
, it blows my mind that it'ssuch a debilitating aspect of
ADHD not just for kids but foradults too with ADHD and it's
just not talked about enough andI thought we could have
conversation about it okay.
Teri Miller (01:02):
Yes, it's something that's really important to me.
I have kiddos that strugglewith ADHD in my family and with
kids that I have worked with inmy work in my career.
I hear that really frequentlyfrom parents that they'll come
in and they might be concernedabout oh, his grades aren't
going well, he's having troublein school.
But the bigger issue they'reconcerned about is behavior.
(01:23):
Is that meltdown, frustrationwith homework, pitching a fit
with homework, that kind ofthing, and I have definitely
dealt with that personally, andso I think it's a really
important thing to talk aboutand to just give parents some
hope and some, maybe someanswers.
What's really going onunderneath the surface.
Dr. Amy Moore (01:59):
So tell us about that.
And the prefrontal cortex.
And so the prefrontal cortex isthe CEO of the brain.
It's what's responsible forplanning and memory and
execution and reasoning skillsand the connections from the
amygdala and just the emotionarea of the brain.
Those are disrupted in the ADHDbrain.
(02:20):
And then we can also look atbrain scans and see that there's
not enough oxygenation to theprefrontal cortex right.
So that impacts reasoningskills.
And we can look at glucosemetabolism on PET scans and see
that the ADHD brain isn't asefficient at using glucose for
(02:44):
energy as a non-ADHD brain is.
I mean, glucose is the mainsource of energy for the brain,
so if it's not very efficient atusing its energy source, then
it isn't going to work as well.
And then there are somedifferences in brain volume
between the ADHD brain and anon-ADHD brain, so the ADHD
brain is a tiny bit smaller.
(03:04):
So there are differences in thebrain that we can visualize on
neuroimaging scans.
Teri Miller (03:13):
Can I go back to a couple things?
You said yeah, Just for ourlisteners.
They may be wondering the samething.
I am Okay.
So you mentioned prefrontalcortex not as oxygenated for an
ADHD brain, and so is thatsomething that we can do
something about.
Is that really affected by thedeep breathing exercises?
That kind of thing?
Dr. Amy Moore (03:33):
Yeah, that's a really good question that I've
never gotten before and I don'tknow the answer, so I'll have to
delete this part.
Teri Miller (03:44):
Okay, all right, let me feel it real quick.
When you say young, don waslike I was thinking, what do I
have control of?
And I was thinking of, oh, if Icould help increase oxygenation
with teaching some breathingexercises.
And then I thought, when yousaid the glucose thing and I
thought this when you presented,can I do something about?
So what if I have three daysout of the week that my child
(04:08):
goes into ketosis, that I dofat-based meals?
I don't know things like that.
Can I do anything about it?
That was just.
I wanted to jump on thatbecause I thought, hey, if I
keep wondering that maybe otherpeople are too.
Dr. Amy Moore (04:32):
Were you looking it up?
I love that question becauseit's really important.
Like we understand what'shappening, but then what can we
do about it?
And mindful breathing is oneway to get oxygenation.
And then physical exercise, andwe know there are tons of
benefits of physical exercise.
And we know there are tons ofbenefits of physical exercise
for any brain, not just the ADHDbrain.
That aerobic activity increasesBDNF, brain-derived
(04:52):
neurotrophic factor, which islike miracle growth for the
brain, and that is another wayto drive oxygen to the
prefrontal cortex for sure.
So that's a really greatquestion In terms of glucose
metabolism.
So in people who have hadtraumatic brain injury, that is
(05:13):
one hypothesis of recovery thatif we put a brain injured
patient on a ketogenic diet for30 days and then it forces the
brain to use ketones energy,rather than glucose, perhaps
(05:36):
that gives the brain a chance torecover.
In terms of a long-termstrategy, especially for a
non-injured brain, but just forADHD, we don't have any research
on that and while it's aninteresting question, it's not
something that I'm prepared torecommend at this point because
(05:56):
I haven't seen any research onit.
So I certainly wouldn't want tosay yeah, try that A, because
compliance is super hard,especially with kids, and kids
need carbohydrates for multiplereasons.
One, to produce serotonin.
So I think it's important tofocus on a well-rounded plate
(06:19):
rather than ketosis, unlessthere's an injury, and even then
ketosis unless there's aninjury, and even then that's
still in the hypothesis researchphase for brain injured
patients.
Teri Miller (06:29):
That's a really fascinating question, for sure
yeah, Just thinking about whatcan I do.
Dr. Amy Moore (06:36):
I'm so proud.
I do want to go back to.
I do want to go back to thatmindful breathing as something
that we can teach our kids anddo ourselves as adults who have
(06:59):
ADHD, and so let's talk aboutthat in a couple minutes when we
get to.
What could we do for thatemotion dysregulation piece?
But really, I just wanted toexplain some of those
differences in the brain to helpeveryone understand.
It just doesn't work the sameway, right?
But what we're seeing issomething called
(07:22):
rejection-sensitive dysphoria,and that is this extreme
emotional response to perceivedcriticism or rejection or
withdrawal of love.
Perceived is the key word here.
If we think someone iscriticizing us, rejecting us,
(07:47):
withdrawing their love from us,if they don't like us, if they
say something that feels likecriticism, then about 80% of
adolescents and adults with ADHDsuffer from rejection-sensitive
dysphoria.
So that instance will throw usinto an emotional tailspin.
So what might that look like?
Teri Miller (08:03):
for, let's say, my give a couple examples my
school-age kid, maybe 10, andthen my teenager.
What could that look like?
What am I going to be seeing?
Dr. Amy Moore (08:12):
Sure, so if you were giving feedback to your
child about their schoolwork andyou said this has a lot of
mistakes, you obviously didn'twork very hard, that could be
perceived as you think I'm dumb,you think I'm stupid, you think
I'm lazy.
That's perceived rejection orcriticism, and so that could set
(08:37):
a child off.
So that's one example.
Another example is when weimpose a consequence.
Teri Miller (08:46):
That's what I was going to say.
I was going to say what if it'snormal part of?
Dr. Amy Moore (08:50):
parenting, so a parent could impose a
consequence, and that could feellike withdrawal of love, that
could feel like you arerejecting me because I've done
something wrong, and thatpunishment feels way bigger than
it might be.
And so then you hit anemotional tailspin, and what's
(09:13):
happening in that emotionaltailspin is that the amygdala is
hijacking the prefrontal cortexright.
You're hitting fight or flightor freeze mode I like to call
that Hulk brain rather thanBruce Banner brain and then you
can't reason and you can't think.
And what we do know this isfascinating too what we do know
in the ADHD brain.
(09:35):
Dr Christina Ledbetter and I didthis really big study on more
than 5,000 kids and adults withADHD and we looked at their
cognitive profiles and what wefound was that working memory
was the most efficient of all ofthe cognitive skills.
Well, we need strong workingmemory when we are trying to
(09:56):
reason through options.
And so one of those thingsthat's happening in the ADHD
brain in that fight or flightmode is that we just can't
access all of the alternatives,all of the explanations, we
can't hold them in our mind andthen act on them, and so
everything becomes a crisis.
(10:16):
It's all a crisis, so what?
Teri Miller (10:20):
can we do?
I'm going to just throw out Ido this a lot with you, amy,
that I'll say real life scenariohappened this morning.
All right, so my youngest thatI have at home, the rule is that
they don't, in the summertime,they don't get on screens until
two o'clock because otherwisethey would be on screens all day
long, like for 10 hours,instead of if I say that at
(10:40):
least they maybe, then it's onlytwo to seven, only five hours,
but anyway, the rule, that's therule.
He's been doing this sneakything and getting up early and
playing video games before therest of us are up and around,
and but I hadn't caught him yet.
I knew he was.
I would see him shift away,close the computer.
This morning I walked out and hewas just headphones on, going
(11:02):
away, and I was like buddy,better that, you know the rule,
and so that's just it.
We've talked about this before,and so no more screens today.
I'm going to need to go aheadand take your computer and you
need to give me your phone, thetailspin you're talking about.
So what do I do?
What do I do as a parent?
How could I have done thatbetter?
Dr. Amy Moore (11:24):
Okay, love that example, love that example.
Teri Miller (11:27):
Oh gosh.
Dr. Amy Moore (11:29):
That's actually a big example, right?
That is not just hey, maybe youcould have said it this way.
That actually goes back to whyis that boundary the way it is,
and you explained that a littlebit, right, you're worried that
they're going to spend all day,every day, on screens.
So did you come up with thatboundary and that rule alone, or
(11:52):
was that a conversation withyour kids?
Teri Miller (11:55):
It was actually a conversation, because we talked
about how many hours do youthink is appropriate?
And they said summertime maybefour to five hours.
And then we observed it a fewtimes and discussed it, and they
agreed that when they startedscreens at 10, it was very
difficult and they were angry tostop screens after four or five
(12:17):
hours.
Okay, so we did discuss it.
Dr. Amy Moore (12:20):
So then how did you determine that 2 pm was
appropriate or would be theboundary?
Teri Miller (12:27):
It was just.
That's usually when rainstormscome, the mountains of Colorado,
and so that's when, hey, youcould be out riding bikes, you
could be hiking, whatever, butby 2, it's come on in, it's
going to be a yucky afternoonokay, so that was part of the
conversation, though.
Dr. Amy Moore (12:41):
Uh-huh, yeah, we talked it out, okay, um, and
then did you talk ahead of time.
Hey, what happens if you guysdon't honor this foundry?
Teri Miller (12:50):
yep okay and what did you come up with?
The third three strikes you'reout Like the first time it's
okay, we forget Second time.
Hey, I understand, I know it'sreally hard.
Third time, you lose yourscreens for the day.
Dr. Amy Moore (13:04):
And then did you clearly identify what screens
were Uh-huh.
Okay, so phones were part ofthat, yep.
Teri Miller (13:12):
Okay For the two little ones, because they don't
have service, their phones areonly for games.
Little fun things.
Dr. Amy Moore (13:20):
Okay, so it doesn't act as a connection
piece.
So, listeners, the reason why Iasked her about phones is that
I'm not a couple of otherepisodes, but phones are a way
that our kids can be connectedto people that they love, and
(13:42):
connection is the number onebuffer against mental health
crisis.
You hear me say that all thetime, and so my advice is not to
use a phone as a punishment.
But, in short case, the phonedoes not connect them with
anyone, it's just for gameplay,right?
Teri Miller (13:57):
Yeah, because we're talking like 11, 12.
Yeah, and so my teenage kids,and you know what.
I may have done this because ofyour influence, amy, because I
think I used to when phones werenewer, with my older kids,
because I have a kid that'sturning 30.
So I've had a lot of it.
But when they were newer, inour home, I would do that you
lose your phone.
(14:17):
That's a privilege and I wouldtake the phone away.
And somewhere along the pastseveral years and I'm sure it's
because of you I was like thatis not a good idea.
And so, from my boys my sonthat's 21 on down, I don't, I do
not.
Once they have that connection,I won't take it away, and
(14:37):
sometimes I'll.
I'm sorry for that.
Once they have that connection,I won't take it away, and
sometimes I'll.
I'm sorry for that, thank you.
Dr. Amy Moore (14:43):
So all right.
So it sounds like you did aphenomenal job, terry, with
having the discussion, problemsolving with the kids as a group
, having them come up with whatthose limits are going to look
like when those limits start.
So great job.
So then let's talk about thismorning specifically, instead of
(15:05):
saying to your child okay, giveme everything.
You've broken the rule.
Three strikes, you're out.
How could you have turned thatinto a conversation?
Three strikes you're out.
Teri Miller (15:20):
How could you have turned that into a conversation?
I could have said do youremember what the rule is?
Can you tell me what our ruleis Exactly?
And then have him say it.
Dr. Amy Moore (15:27):
Yeah, so then he identifies that he's broken the
rule.
Teri Miller (15:32):
And so then you would say and do you remember
what the consequence was?
Buddy yeah.
Dr. Amy Moore (15:39):
I did not do that .
Instead of you taking it away,say so.
You need to put it away, likeyou all determined.
Teri Miller (15:48):
Agreed, yeah, even I could have even asked him
where would you like to, wheredo you like to put your computer
and phone for the day?
Absolutely, oh Mick.
Dr. Amy Moore (16:06):
Because then what that does is it puts the
responsibility solely on him.
Right, he helped problem solve,he helped create that boundary
with the kids, and so you'restill leaving him with that
responsibility.
Then, okay, you've identifiedthat you've broken this rule
three times, and now you knowwhat the consequence is, so I
need you to take care of it.
Okay, you've identified thatyou've broken this rule three
times, and now you know what theconsequence is, so I need you
to take care of it.
Teri Miller (16:21):
Yeah.
Dr. Amy Moore (16:22):
And then he still may do it kicking and screaming
, but it's still on him.
You made the choice, thereforeyou need to so.
Teri Miller (16:35):
So even if I had done that well and I think even
if I had done that better, Ijust knowing what's been going
on I think he would have had ameltdown anyway because of that.
Anytime I have to ask more thanonce about something, or it's
very upsetting to him.
So once that tailspin happens,how should I handle?
Dr. Amy Moore (16:56):
it so you can't co-regulate from another room.
I always say that, andco-regulation is bringing our
calm to their fire.
So when they are emotionallydysregulated, they're upset,
they're in an emotional tailspin.
It's our responsibility to staycalm and close and present.
(17:18):
We can validate.
Hey, I know that was reallyupsetting.
I'm sorry that you're gonnahave to find something else to
do today, so I know that's tough.
So you can validate whatthey're going through.
I'm here if you need something,okay I did not do that either.
It's hard right, but so what didyou do?
Teri Miller (17:39):
I was heading, I just needed to head out the door
, okay, and I was taking myother two kids to their theater
camp and I just had to go, andso I was like, let's you know, I
didn't do that like hand themover, and so I just took them
with me, I literally broughtthem to the car with me, it just
just was in a hurry, yeah, so Ijust wasn't in a position to
sit with them.
That's not always true, butthat does happen sometimes,
(18:03):
where the meltdown happens whenyou've got to get in the car and
go and yeah.
Dr. Amy Moore (18:08):
Yeah, Did he get in the car with you or he was he
got?
Teri Miller (18:11):
No, he stayed.
Dr. Amy Moore (18:13):
So you.
So then you have a couple otheroptions.
So it's not a health or safetyissue, meaning there's not an
emergency happening.
You could have chosen to ignoreit and address it tonight, when
you get home from work, whenyou do have time to sit with the
(18:34):
fire.
That he's going right, so youcould have just patted him on
the head, kissed him goodbye,whatever it is.
You do have time to sit withthe fire, that he's going right,
so you could have just pattedhim on the head, kissed him
goodbye, whatever it is you do,and come on to work and then,
when you got home, say, hey, weneed to chat.
I noticed this morning that youwere playing video games, and
(18:55):
can you remind me what the ruleis for that and had the
conversation tonight when youhave time then, to also hold
space for the big feelings thatcome after.
Yeah, if it's a health orsafety emergency, you can't do
that, right.
Sometimes you're just going tohave to swoop in, solve the
problem, fix it, change theenvironment, whatever it is.
(19:18):
But that was not an emergency.
It is a conversation that couldhave waited until you had time
to fully explore the fallout.
Yes, not do anything wrong.
We're just talking about likehow do we make this easier in
the long term for us as parentsand for our kids to be able to
(19:40):
learn A how to honor boundariesand rules, but also what to do
with the big emotions?
Like, you left him with his bigemotions and he doesn't know
what to do with them now.
That's tough, yeah, but we alldo it.
We've all done it.
Yeah, but we all do it.
We've all done it.
Yeah, we've all dragged ourkids kicking and screaming into
(20:01):
the car because we're runninglate, pushed them out of the car
on the school curb because wehave to get to work Right.
Like we mess them up, we screwthe kids up.
Even though we're experts inpsychology, we still screw our
kids up right Because we'rehuman and so we have to show
ourselves grace for that and dothe repair work if we need to.
Teri Miller (20:23):
The learning.
I think this is so great.
This conversation is amazingbecause this was a practical
situation and my head is goingwith the ways I could have done
it different and the way I'mgoing to do it different next
time, because I don't want toput this on.
I mean, it's probably somethingsimilar is going to happen,
like tomorrow, but I'm learning.
So, as long as I'm learning, aslong as I knew it was
(20:47):
uncomfortable, I knew somethingwasn't right and I didn't handle
it well and gosh, that's reallygreat help.
Dr. Amy Moore (20:56):
Gosh, that's really great help.
Yeah, and I think that's all wecan do is debrief or reflect on
the interaction and theexchange and our decisions and
say, okay, what do we value asparents, what is important to us
in terms of parenting, what dowe hope that our kids take away
(21:19):
from their childhood?
And then we have to askourselves, okay, is how I
handled that this morningconsistent with what I value as
a parent?
And so that's hard right, likewhere we really have to break
down.
Okay, do we want our kids to beloving and kind and empathetic
and contributing members tosociety?
(21:41):
Like, what is it that we value?
And then, what do we want outof our relationship with our
kids?
Right, I want my kid to feelloved unconditionally.
I want my kid to know that, nomatter what they do, I still
love them, whatever yourparenting values are.
And then when you debrief okay,how'd I handle that this morning
(22:03):
?
Are there holes in that?
Did you detour?
I like to call this it choicepoint.
I adapted that idea fromacceptance and commitment
therapy, right?
So a choice point wherewhatever I do or say is either
leading me, pointing me towardswhat I value, or away from what
I value, if you can visualizethat as a fork in the road, then
(22:27):
you're able to say, okay, thatwas moving me away from what I
value as a parent, so how couldI do it differently next time so
that it moves me towards what Ivalue as a parent?
Teri Miller (22:38):
Hey, I've got some repair to do this evening, but
I'll have to let you knowpersonally how that goes
tomorrow.
Dr. Amy Moore (22:45):
I would love to know that.
Teri Miller (22:46):
I want to ask another different ADHD question.
So you talked about workingmemory as a big issue in the
ADHD brain and so another thingthat I see in one of my
different kids ADHD kids,teenage gal she really struggles
making decisions and like forher birthday even things that
(23:08):
she could do whatever she wants.
She'll just wait till the lastminute.
She'll be like I don't know ifI want to do a bonfire with my
friends, I'm not sure, and Idon't know if they can all come
and she just hems and haws forweeks and she can't seem to make
a decision.
What's going on with that andhow can I help her?
That's a great question.
Dr. Amy Moore (23:26):
Okay, so let me tell you the difference in how
ADHD brains make decisions andnon-ADHD brains make decisions.
So if you don't have ADHD andyou're faced with a decision,
you typically choose the mostimportant thing to focus on or
to do first, then the next mostimportant thing and then
(23:48):
probably something that mighthave a reward attached.
That's normally the order inwhich we would choose something.
In the ADHD brain, everythingis important, all options look
the same, and in the absence ofthat ability to rack and stack
what's more important or what welike more or what would be more
(24:11):
rewarding, because we can'tdifferentiate it's all important
, so then it paralyzes us.
So if you've got so manychoices, then no choice is going
to happen because we just can'tdecide which one is better, and
(24:33):
so in that case it's probablybest to narrow those choices
down.
So if you notice that you knowyour child's paralyzed by this
open-ended invitation, you couldsay hey, I noticed that you're
having trouble picking something.
(24:54):
Would you like some ideas?
And then maybe she'll say sure,and then have three ideas that
you could offer.
Teri Miller (25:05):
Okay.
Dr. Amy Moore (25:14):
And you could also help her determine pros and
cons for each of those ideas,because then, when we start to
break down the options, then itmakes it a little bit easier to
choose.
Teri Miller (25:21):
Okay, just yeah.
An example was the birthdaything.
It's been a while back, butwhat you're saying is what we
went through.
But I, the way I thought of it,as my brain was processing it
as process of elimination, thatI was helping her do that
process of elimination and sothat I was able to be like, okay
, if you had to choose betweenonly doing something with your
(25:41):
two best friends or having yourwhole theater group friends,
over which would you choose?
And she was able to.
Pretty quickly she narrowed itdown like process of elimination
, so each thing, and thenultimately she did land on the
bonfire, but I should have donethis process much earlier
because my pen was like two daysbefore.
But I feel like that's the samething that you're saying Narrow
(26:03):
her choices.
Dr. Amy Moore (26:05):
Yes, and there's a chance that when you give
three choices instead of anopen-ended choice, that none of
those will seem exciting, thenyou say would you like three
more choices or do you want tobreak down the pros and cons of
these first?
And so you just have to be thecoach or the guide on the side
(26:30):
when you have thoseconversations.
The good news is the successthat she will feel at the end,
that she's actually chosensomething that creates a new
neural pathway.
that is what narrowing downchoices feels like yeah and then
(26:52):
the hope is the next time shemight be able to apply that same
technique.
Or you might have to do thatthree, four, five, six, 12 more
times with her, right before shestarts to say, okay, last time,
this is how I made a decision.
So it becomes a process thatthe ADHD brain learns, rather
(27:16):
than it being a natural rack andstacking of priorities.
Teri Miller (27:21):
Okay, that's so good, and why, as parents, do we
so often think?
I told you that once and wetalked about it again last week,
and so why are you fixing it?
And yet, if we think abouttoddlers, kids learning to talk,
whatever, we have to go overplease and thank yous a million
times before it really sticksand before you'll have that
moment where they open somethingat Christmas and look up and go
(27:43):
, thank you.
Dr. Amy Moore (27:46):
And again so, that same study that I mentioned
before that working memory wasthe most efficient skill.
We actually identified threedeficient cognitive skills.
It was working memory,long-term memory and processing
speed.
So, applied to this scenario,you have to be able to hold all
(28:09):
of the options in your mind atthe same time that's working
memory and act on them, which ismaking a choice.
You have to do it in areasonable amount of time, right
, that's a processing speedissue.
And the long-term memory piececomes in when you have to
remember how did I solve asimilar situation the last time,
(28:30):
or how much did I enjoy asimilar experience, right?
So when you're having troubleretrieving memories, when you're
having trouble holding optionsin your mind to act on them, and
because your processing speedis slow, right, that gives you
even more opportunity to forgetwhat's in your mind.
Right, because it's taking toolong to make the decision.
(28:52):
So we have to come behind andsupport all of that.
Interestingly, this has nothingto do with attention, did you
notice?
Teri Miller (29:00):
It's so interesting Because the attention is a
symptom right of the realunderlying cognitive skill
problem.
Dr. Amy Moore (29:08):
Yeah, we automatically think because
hello, it's named wrongattention, attention deficit
disorder, when we don't have adeficit of attention, we have
too much attention.
We pay attention to everything,like I'm saying all options are
important or everything's acrisis right.
We pay attention to it all tothe point where it's paralyzing
(29:29):
or we have an emotional meltdown.
So if we don't look atstrengthening or plussing up or
supporting memory and processingspeed, then we're going to have
this same conversation againand again.
Teri Miller (29:44):
Okay, gosh, this is just.
This is so important, thesekinds of conversations and
learning, listening to podcasts,reading books, just as a parent
, because if we're notintentional, it is way too easy
to just be impatient, to thinkthe behavior's the issue.
You're just rebellious, you'rejust disrespectful, all these
things that we do that we tendto shake our head, shake them
(30:10):
and shake our heads that reallywe can first of all have
compassion.
I love that you made that thefirst, number one issue, so that
I can take that breath andthink he's not doing this on
purpose, it's.
This is really a struggle forhim.
But then, number two, I'm notgoing to let that be an excuse
and say he's not doing it onpurpose, that's just his ADHD
(30:32):
brain, that's just what'shappening.
So I'll just let him continueacting that way because that's
not preparing him for the realworld.
And so then you're giving ussome solutions, practical
solutions, and I think that's sovaluable.
Dr. Amy Moore (30:47):
Yeah, and I think it's super important too, when
you're parenting withconsequences, to ask yourself
what lesson does thisconsequence give my child?
Because we think of disciplineas punishment, when really the
word discipline comes from theword disciple, which means to
(31:07):
teach, and so we want to teachour kids.
Hey, this is how you problemsolve, this is how you decide
whether you are going to actthis way versus that way.
Right, we want our kids to dothe right thing because it's the
right thing to do, not becausethey are afraid of being
(31:28):
disciplined or punished, becausethat actually doesn't prepare
them for the real world.
Right, what prepares them forthe real world is critical
thinking skills, problem-solvingskills, that ability to talk
through options and then be ableto choose the best one.
(31:49):
And so I like to recommend thateverything is a conversation
first.
Everything is a conversationfirst, unless it's a safety
emergency.
Your kid's in the middle of thestreet.
You better go get your kid outof the street.
That is not a conversation, butthat's an emergency.
Most things are not emergencies, and so we have to recognize
(32:11):
parenting young children istemporary, and so we have to
recognize parenting youngchildren is temporary and it
does take extra time to haveconversation.
It's a whole lot easier just toimpose a consequence.
Yeah, but does that equip themfor?
Teri Miller (32:29):
not doing it again.
It's about takingresponsibility.
Not doing it again.
It's about takingresponsibility, and I love that
that.
I need to do better with mykiddo to ask him what was the
rule.
Let him take responsibility forwhat we talked about, and
that's huge, because then that'sthat is teaching that personal
responsibility, which then itapplies to everything.
(32:49):
It's not just this one issue,it's not just about screens to
everything.
It's not just this one issue.
It's not just about screens orscreen time.
It's about their rules thathave consequences and you need
to be personally responsible forthem.
Dr. Amy Moore (33:00):
Yeah.
Another alternative could havebeen you have this time limit
that you all decided wasreasonable, and so when you come
downstairs and you see yourchild starting early, you could
say, hey, I noticed that you arestarting early today, so what
(33:23):
time will you need to turn thatoff to make sure that you are
within your time limit for theday?
Yeah, so that then it teachesyour child.
Okay, there's more than one wayto honor the boundary or honor
that limit, and I made thedecision to start early, which
(33:44):
means I have to be done earlierthan everybody else.
Teri Miller (33:47):
Yeah, that would be good too.
It makes me want to rethinkeven our little summer plan,
like maybe revisit theconversation with them, because
what if it is that he reallywants that time all alone in the
morning?
What if that's important to himand I need to ask him and find
that out and revisit it?
Just because we decided at oncedoesn't mean that it's still
holding true mid-July.
Dr. Amy Moore (34:08):
Absolutely.
I think you just nailed it thatflexibility will lower the
temperature on your frustration,and it honors your child's
ability to change his mind aboutsomething, and so I think you
nailed it.
All right, good stuff, goodstuff, all right.
(34:30):
If you have not followed us onsocial media at the Brainy Moms,
please do that.
We love to interact with ourfollowers.
If you'd rather see our faces,we are on YouTube and you can
catch us on our website at theBrainy Moms.
Be sure to check out oursponsor, learningrx.
We talk about those cognitiveskills working memory, long-term
(34:51):
memory and processing speedbeing deficient in ADHD.
Adhd more than attention, andthat's exactly what LearningRx
addresses is strengthening thosecognitive skills that are
necessary for thinking andlearning all day, every day.
Thanks for tuning in, guys.
We're going to catch you nexttime.
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