December 2, 2024 • 45 mins
We loved this episode so much that we’re bringing it back for another listen! If you’re parenting a differently wired kid, you may have concerns that go beyond the already heavy stressors that can come with parenting. Am I parenting to bring out the best in my child or doing what’s comfortable, easy or socially expected? Is my child’s IEP just addressing the behavior rather than the stressors that are causing the behavior? Is my neurodivergent student going to be left behind because they don’t perform well on standardized tests despite being very smart? Am I stuck in a cycle of “compare and despair” rather than respecting my child’s unique timeline, interests and gifts?
This conversation Dr. Amy and Dr. Jody had with Debbie Reber felt like a lifeline for many of us raising neurodivergent children and teens. Debbie is the author of the book, “Differently Wired: A Parent’s Guide to Raising an Atypical Child with Confidence and Hope” and the founder of Tilt Parenting. Offering insights, personal stories, and guidance for listeners who may be grappling with insecurities around parenting a differently wired child, Debbie provided comfort—and useful tips—to help us all gain perspective.
Debbie shares her personal story of raising a neurodivergent child and how it inspired her groundbreaking book. She introduces the concept of "tilt," a metaphor that encapsulates the unpredictable path of parenting children who don't fit the typical mold, urging us to shift our perspectives and embrace a new way of understanding neurodivergence.
The emotional strain of the "compare and despair" cycle faced by parents of differently wired kids is a recurring challenge, especially within the rigid framework of educational systems. From public to private schooling, Debbie delves into the impact these choices have on both children and their families, highlighting the concept of "school PTSD" that affects many kids. This episode empowers parents to redefine what success and happiness mean for their families, focusing on the unique strengths and joys that their children bring to their lives.
Advocacy in education is a vital tool for parents, and Debbie offers insights on how to maximize support within the school system. From navigating IEPs and 504 plans to exploring alternatives like micro-schools and homeschooling, she emphasizes the importance of being a proactive advocate for your child's needs. Debbie also shares the wealth of resources available through Tilt Parenting, including a podcast and community initiatives, which provide ongoing support for parents as they embrace the strengths and unique timelines of their differently wired children. Join us for a conversation that offers hope, guidance, and a fresh perspective on the challenges and triumphs of raising exceptional kids.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. Amy Moore (00:02):
Hi and welcome to this episode of Brainy Moms
brought to you today byLearningRx Brain Training
Centers.
I am your host, dr Amy Moore,joined by my co-host, dr Jodi
Jedlicka, and we are coming toyou today from a very sunny but
a little chilly Colorado Springs, colorado, and joining us all
the way from Brooklyn, new York,is our guest, debbie Reber.
All the way from Brooklyn, newYork is our guest, debbie Reber.
(00:24):
Debbie is a parenting activist,best-selling author, keynote
speaker and founder of TiltParenting, a website, podcast
and resource for parents who areraising differently-wired
children.
A regular contributor toPsychology Today and Attitude
Magazine, debbie's newest bookis called Differently Wired a
(00:44):
parent's guide to raising anatypical child with confidence
and hope.
In 2018, she spoke at TEDxAmsterdam, delivering a talk
called why the Future Will BeDifferently Wired.
After living abroad in theNetherlands for five years,
debbie, her husband and herDifferently Wired teen moved to
Brooklyn in 2019.
(01:05):
Welcome, debbie.
Debbie Reber (01:07):
Thank you, I'm happy to be here.
Dr. Jody Jedlicka (01:09):
Yeah, good morning, Debbie.
I love how you call yourself aparenting activist.
When I was listening to yourpodcast, that seemed like such
an appropriate way to describeyou.
Can you tell us a bit aboutyourself and why you decided to
write the book Differently Wiredand how you even came up with
(01:29):
that term Differently Wired?
Debbie Reber (01:32):
Yes, so I am, as you mentioned, the mom of a now
18-year-old kid, one child andthis was not my plan to do any
of this, to create, to write,Differently Wired.
I used to work as an author forbooks for young adults and
teenagers and I would speak toyoung women because I was a
(01:54):
recovering teen myself andworked in kids TV before that
and so I was just kind ofhumming along when I realized
that my parenting journey wasgoing to be a little more
intense than, or different than,what I had expected.
I don't know what I expected,but not what was unfolding
before me, because I discoveredthat the child I was raising was
(02:18):
neurodivergent, which at thetime we discovered that we
didn't know what that meant orwhat was really involved, but we
just knew that things weregoing to be a little more
challenging.
And so you know, going througheverything we went through over
the years of trying to figureout a path for my child named
Asher, figuring out a path forAsher, figuring out a school,
(02:41):
multiple school situations,understanding how to support
this kid and really supportmyself as a parent and a partner
in going through this.
I really wanted to figure outhow to support other parents
then in this journey because itis it can be very isolating and
very overwhelming.
(03:02):
It can feel impossible at timesto find the right resources and
to just know how to navigatethis.
And so when I kind of got Iwouldn't say I got through it
because I'm still in it but whenI really kind of learned more
about this journey, I knew thatI wanted to use my skills of
(03:22):
sharing resources andinformation and writing and help
other parents feel less alonein this journey, and that's why
I ended up writing DifferentlyWired.
Dr. Jody Jedlicka (03:31):
I love that you saw the need or the hole and
you used the gifts that you hadto be able to fill that need.
Where did you come up with theword tilt?
Debbie Reber (03:47):
Yeah.
So there's a story which I canshare with you.
And first I will say it's notan acronym.
A lot of people think it is,and to that I say, if you come
up with something good thatworks with T-I-L-T, let me know.
Maybe it can become an acronym.
But you mentioned it when youread my bio that we had moved to
the Netherlands, and when wedid that it was in 2013.
(04:10):
And we just threw all the rulesout the window.
We decided to radically changeour lives.
I became a homeschool parentWasn't my plan either, but
that's what happened.
And it was this reallyinteresting time.
And the summer before we moved,we went to the Jersey shore and
we were riding Asher and I wenton the tilt a whirl.
(04:32):
If you know that ride, you cankind of hold on and it whips you
around unexpectedly.
You never know when the nextone's going to come.
And so my husband took apicture of Asher and I on the
tilt a whirl and caughtWhirl andcaught us kind of mid-whip and
we have these big smiles on ourfaces and our hair is blowing
back and we're just holding onfor dear life.
But we're excited, but nervous,and it really captured to me
(04:57):
the big changes we're making inour world.
And so when we moved abroad, Istarted a blog called Tilt a
World where I started sharingwhat we were doing and what I
was learning.
And so then, a few years later,when I started realizing I
wanted to create a community anda resource for parents, I had
pages of brainstorms for namesof this that I would run them by
(05:22):
Asher, and Asher would say noto most of them because it was
like, well, that has a negativeconnotation and this sounds like
this and this is you know.
And a friend said what aboutthat word tilt?
It really captures so muchabout what you're trying to do,
which is reframe things.
Tilt the conversation.
We all need to kind of approachneurodivergence and what's
(05:44):
happening with our kids throughthis different lens.
And as soon as she said it, Iwas like that's the word.
And then Asher approved, so Imoved forward with that.
Dr. Amy Moore (05:55):
Yeah, I think when I saw that you label your
chapter in the second half ofyour book, you, you label your
chapters tilt number one, tiltnumber 17, right, and so to me
it just said, hey, paradigmshift number one, like new way
of thinking, number two right,or new way of doing.
(06:16):
I mean you tilt your parentingperspective and your parenting
practices and you actually youhad a quote in your book that
made me cry.
You said people apologize forthings they've done, wrong,
things they regret.
My son apologized for who he isand I have three neurodiverse
(06:43):
kids and so completely relatedto that and just knowing the
struggles that they had inschool and with teachers not
understanding, and so I love theidea that your response to that
is, hey, we have to think abouta different way of parenting
(07:04):
rather than trying to change ourchild.
We need to look at this wholeparenting process differently,
right?
Debbie Reber (07:11):
Yeah, yes, and I you know that was based on a
story that I share of my childapologizing and just realizing
that he was doing it all thetime.
And when I realized that thatwas a conditioned response
really to what had beenhappening in school, it did
break my heart.
And you know that when I wrotethat book even was now seven
(07:36):
years ago I I'm excited to seethat I feel like the shift is
happening.
There's maybe it's just who Ihang out with, because I spent
all my time talking to peoplewho are in this, but I do feel
like there is an increasingawareness of the fact that being
differently wired is is adifference, it's not a deficit,
(08:00):
and that everyone benefits whenwe, instead of trying to get
these kids to be compliant or tobetter fit in, that we really
lean or they're doing it wrong,or they're broken, or they're
bad.
You know they're the bad kids.
That can last a lifetime.
(08:32):
I mean it's.
It's really heartbreaking whenyou think about how many kids
are growing up with thisinternalized sense that I'm a
screw up, you know, or I'm notsmart.
Dr. Amy Moore (08:42):
Yeah, so I want you to.
I want to dig in a little bitabout some of these tilts for
our listeners.
But before we do that, can youtalk a little bit about this
idea of getting into thatcompare and despair cycle and
what that means?
Debbie Reber (09:03):
Yeah, I mean a lot of us raising these kids live
in that cycle, I think,especially around graduation
time or you know any kind ofmilestones, because I think we,
as parents of these kids, ourexperience is often different
from what we expected and it'sdifferent from what we may see,
(09:25):
you know, happening around us inour community, or with other
parents or with other familymembers who are raising their
own kids, and so we can oftenget the reminder that this looks
different, this is harder, thisis more intense, or your child
is not going to have thisexperience, or you know all of
(09:47):
these things Cause we have thispicture in our mind about what
our kid's life is going to belike, what our experience as a
parent's going to feel and looklike, and then we see what's
happening around us and it itcan be really hard to not hold
our experience up to thosestandards and then to feel like
(10:08):
we really drew the short straw.
And I mentioned graduationbecause that is one of those
times where we start seeing onsocial media the pictures of
so-and-so just performed at thisrecital, or just won this award
in the class for being the mostrespectful student or being you
know all of this stuff.
And then we've got these kidswho are incredible and are such
(10:33):
sensitive, lovely, complicated,fascinating people who aren't
going to win those awards and wemay not get a picture of them.
They may have had such anegative experience at school
that they don't even want to goto an event, they may be
disinvited from events, and sothat compare and despair cycle
(10:54):
of looking at these things andkeeping ourselves stuck in that
feeling like I wish this was ourlife.
But this is our life and thetension between those, you know,
can be really painful, and it'spain that we're really keeping
ourselves in if we're kind ofmired in that cycle because
(11:14):
we're continually focusing onwhat we don't have as opposed to
leaning into the awesome humanthat we're raising and kind of
redefining what success and joylooks like for ourselves.
Dr. Amy Moore (11:30):
And so where do parents start?
How do they start breaking thatcycle?
Debbie Reber (11:37):
Well, I think noticing it is the first thing,
and that's kind of a themethroughout my book.
So much of this is kind ofdoing our own deep inner work,
to start paying attention to thethings that trigger us, the
times we feel sad or frustratedor overwhelmed, or you know that
default thought of this isalways going to be hard, or
(12:00):
we're using language like mychild will never, you know, x,
whatever that is.
So we need to disrupt that.
We need to catch ourselvessaying those words, thinking
those thoughts, feeling thosefeelings, and not that we
they're not valid.
Like I'm a fan of experiencingthe feeling and trying to dig
(12:23):
deeper and understand what'sreally going on, because usually
it's, you know, it's underneath.
That is this concern about ourkids not being happy, which is
what we want.
We want our kids to grow up tobe happy, fulfilled humans who
can contribute to the world andfeel good about themselves.
So I think we need to kind ofuncover what's really going on
(12:45):
and then start to just do ourown work to reframe and to look
for the bright spots in our ownfamily and to to realize that
social media, whatever we'reseeing, that's not real either.
You know what we're kind ofimagining everyone else's life
is like is not actually whattheir life is like, and we
(13:07):
really want to just go into ourfamily.
Where do we find joy?
What works for us, what are ourstrengths?
How do we have fun?
What does success look and feellike for us and how can we do
this on our own terms?
And the more we can kind ofstay in that space, then what
other people are doing it's notgoing to impact us as much.
Dr. Jody Jedlicka (13:28):
Debbie, in your book you talk a lot about
education and I think that'ssuch a huge part of kids' lives
and parents' lives, and myhusband and I have both worked
in education and I often saythat kids develop, kids with
challenges develop what I callschool PTSD.
(13:50):
It's just you know theseexperiences that they've had,
that frame how they think andlook at themselves, and so can
you talk about some of thelimitations of various types of
schooling public, charter,private for differently wired
children and some of thediscoveries that you've made
(14:14):
surrounding those differentchoices?
Debbie Reber (14:18):
Yeah, I mean education is, I think, the
biggest challenge when our kidsare younger, because that's
really one of their primary jobs.
Right is to play and learn andso often for us those of us
raising these kids it isn't likelet's go to the neighborhood
school and they're good to gofor the next 12 years.
It doesn't often look that way.
(14:38):
I think there are challengesand and potentially you know,
pluses and really every type ofschool, I think for public
school, which is where most ofthese kids end up, if they have
a formal diagnosis, then thepossibility of them getting an
IEP or having a 504 plan can canwork.
(15:00):
It depends on the schooldistrict.
I think the challenges of thepublic school system is the
limitations with how mastery andknowledge has to be
demonstrated.
Or, you know, there's so manytests that have to be taken and
standardized tests and you haveto check all of these boxes and
(15:21):
a lot of these kids learndifferently and they may have a
very different way ofdemonstrating knowledge and
there isn't much wiggle room ina public school system.
I think there's more than wesometimes think, because
sometimes the school will saynope, can't do that, and then we
accept that and I think there'smore room to push and some
school districts are more openthan others, but a lot of it
(15:44):
comes down to having a teacherwho really sees that kid, and a
good teacher can make all thedifference, as you know, and a
good IEP plan.
But even IEPs tend to be sofocused on a behavior as opposed
to the underlying stressorsthat are causing the behavior,
(16:05):
or you know that those behaviorsare coping strategies for.
So I think public school canwork, but it can be really
tricky.
Also, the size of theclassrooms and you know, for a
lot of these kids sensory issuesare a big deal, and so bigger
classrooms can be overwhelming.
And then private schools canwork great.
(16:25):
It really depends on the school.
I think the challenge with kindof a more mainstream private
school and by that I mean onethat isn't specialized for
learning, disabilities andthings I think they don't have
to provide any supports if theydon't want to, and so that can
be really challenging.
(16:46):
Living in the Netherlands, themost expats send their kids to
an international school.
So I looked at them and theywere like nope, we can't do that
, we can't support ADHD, wedon't have the resources, and
that's the same in a lot ofplaces that they, and legally
they, can say no.
So I think parents can feellike they have less of a voice
(17:08):
in a public school.
And if it works, it can workgreat, and if it doesn't work it
can be ugly.
As I write about in my book, wehad some pretty gnarly breakups
with some schools in earlyelementary and a lot of then.
You know what's happening now.
There are a lot of microschools cropping up, which is
really exciting to see.
(17:29):
A lot more specialized schoolsfor kids who are twice
exceptional or have otherlearning differences, and those
can be really expensive.
So that can be really trickyand a barrier for so many
families.
And then a lot of families endup homeschooling, which you know
is also not an option foreveryone.
(17:51):
It worked really really wellfor us.
What I find is that a lot offamilies with these
neurodivergent kids a majorityof them will spend at least some
time homeschooling, even ifit's like an emergency situation
or a school refusal situation,and so they pivot to
homeschooling to get through aseason or a certain phase and
(18:13):
then they try to find a betterfit.
So I think homeschooling can bea great option if it's
available to you, because thenwe're not like focused on these
arbitrary guidelines orapproaches that have nothing to
do with the way our kid learns.
We can really tailor aneducational experience that is
(18:36):
rooted in their strengths andthat is can be a really great
gift, especially, as youmentioned PTSD, to get these
kids out of that cycle.
It can take a while actually todetox from a negative school
experience, months or years even.
Dr. Amy Moore (18:52):
So what is your advice?
I think one of your tilts is,um, to make a ruckus when you
need to, and so talk about thatin terms of your advice to
parents who have no other optionbut to go to public school.
Right, they're dual workingfamilies or they don't have the
(19:13):
resources to pay for a privateprogram and they can't
homeschool.
Apply that tilt to how they canbe advocates for their children
in public school.
Debbie Reber (19:26):
Yeah, I mean, I think I think there's a lot more
, as I said, that we can do,that we don't know is available
to us.
You know we often are relyingon other people to tell us what
to do.
You know we're not all expertsin IEP.
I mean, even the word IEP likemakes my brain hurt.
My kid has had IEPs.
(19:48):
I've been to IEP meetings and Istill would not consider myself
an expert in that at all and Iget really overwhelmed when I
have to go to those meetings.
And so I think kind of findingpeople who are really who
understand that system reallywell working with an educational
advocate, someone who thinkkind of finding people who are
really who understand thatsystem really well working with
an educational advocate, someonewho can kind of be there, can
be really supportive, becausethere actually is a lot that we
(20:12):
can push for in terms of thetypes of accommodations our kid
might have.
A school will.
Often, you know, there's like aboilerplate accommodations oh,
you've got this diagnosis, we'llgive you this.
There's like a boilerplateaccommodations oh, you've got
this diagnosis, we'll give youthis, this and this.
And oftentimes parents willjust say, okay, I don't know
what that stuff means, soundsgood, I'll sign it and then we
assume that it's all happening.
(20:33):
And so I think, realizing thatactually we, if we can get in
the weeds and we can say thisaccommodation isn't going to
work because of this, this iswhat we propose like we can get
in the weeds and we can say thisaccommodation isn't going to
work because of this, this iswhat we propose Like we can
negotiate A friend of mine talksabout this like buying a used
car, like it's a negotiation.
We both want to get what wewant out of it and we don't have
(20:54):
to take no for an answer.
So I think working with someoneand actually understoodorg is a
great resource in terms offinding ideas for what you can
ask for in an IEP, but there isoften more we can push for.
We also need to know that we canask for IEP meetings at any
time.
(21:14):
So if we realize the teacherisn't enforcing an IEP, or
actually it says they're goingto do this, but none of this is
happening, we can ask foranother meeting and we can go in
and say we need to make somechanges and so, knowing that
it's more of a living, breathingdocument and that we can
continue to advocate, I think alot of parents are worried about
(21:37):
being that parent.
Right, we want to be liked.
We don't want people to be like, oh God, there's that mom again
, like walking down the hallway,and then we're also getting
often phone calls right oremails for early pickup, and
we're the ones who get callsfrom the principal or whatever
because of what happened on theplayground.
(21:58):
And so we can lose some of ourpower in that, because we feel
embarrassed or judged and we caninternalize that.
And so I think we want to likekind of reframe that to be a
good advocate and know, listen.
What matters is this kid'sexperience.
What matters is that my childfeels successful in school.
(22:20):
I know that's what you want asa school, that's what I want as
a parent and that's what thischild deserves.
So how are we going to makethat happen?
And so we're really working tobuild an alignment with the
educators involved and then justknowing this is going to be
something we're going to keeptweaking together.
It's not a once and done kindof thing.
Dr. Amy Moore (22:41):
Yeah, what I found was when I would negotiate
those IEPs and the 504s for mykids, was that the teachers
actually appreciated suggestions, right, because they sometimes
feel like, well, we've tried A,b and C and it hasn't helped.
And so for the parent to cometo the table and say, well, this
has worked for me at home.
(23:02):
What if you tried this, youknow, in the classroom, like I
got less pushback on that than Iexpected.
And then I also found that if Ileveraged the relationship with
the pediatrician my child'spediatrician or whoever
(23:22):
diagnosed my different children,and said, hey, I drafted an
accommodations letter, would youput this on your letterhead
Right?
Save your pediatrician the work.
They're typically more thanhappy to say, hey, here's our
recommendation.
And then you kind of have alittle bit of you know, some
(23:42):
credibility behind yoursuggestion too.
Debbie Reber (23:45):
Yeah, I love that.
I mean, you're just gettingcreative and I think, again, it
requires us because not all,some of us, maybe a lot of us,
are non confrontational peopleand so for us, we don't we're
worried that we're going to beperceived as antagonistic and so
and we also want to trust, youknow, or defer to the wisdom of
(24:10):
people that we perceive to bemore educated about this than we
are, but that's not always thecase and so you know, I love
that.
That your child's teacher wasopen to that.
I've had mixed experiences.
I've had teachers love that andI've had teachers been like I
know what I'm doing.
Thank you very much.
Dr. Jody Jedlicka (24:28):
So I think it really depends Absolutely.
Weirdly, I've been on bothsides of the table of an IEP too
, and I think sometimes thestaff of the school wants to be
non-confrontational as well, andso I think that also can be
frustrating for parents, becausethey know something needs to be
done and they're happy that yousee all the good things, but
(24:49):
they want to know what are wegoing to do to move forward with
this, and so I think it makesparents feel validated when
everybody's on the same page.
Debbie Reber (25:01):
Yeah 100%.
Dr. Amy Moore (25:04):
So talk a little bit about how parents can react
to other people shoving theiropinions at you about, well,
what your child should be doingright now, or, developmentally,
how come your child isn't doingthis right now?
Give our listeners some adviceon how they can respond to those
(25:24):
suggestions from others.
Debbie Reber (25:28):
Well-meaning, often suggestions, but very
misguided.
Yeah, I mean there's no easyanswer in terms of how to do
this, because I think a lot ofus do get triggered by that
because, again, it feelspersonal, it feels like this
person is judging and they mayvery well be judging our how
(25:51):
good of a parent we are, and weall want to feel like we're
doing a really good job, and soI think if it is something that
you get triggered by, thenthat's worth separately, before
we get to the tactical things,kind of working on that piece
Like why is this upsetting to me?
What am I making?
(26:11):
It mean that this person hasgiven me advice or has
insinuated that I don't knowwhat I'm doing, and just kind of
uncover that what's going on.
Often, like I feel like so muchof our stuff is triggered from
our own baggage that we grew upwith the feeling like we're not
good enough or we're not smartenough, and so it's worth taking
(26:32):
the time to be like oh yeah,that's that's why this is really
bothering me, just so we canmake peace with that in some way
.
And then I think it can bereally helpful to just have some
scripts at the ready for thosetypes of situations when someone
(26:52):
gives you unwanted advice orasks you a question I write
extensively in the book about.
I love the Dutch.
I'm just going to say thisDutch people are some of my
favorite people on the planetand they're super direct, which
I'm good with.
I live in New York.
I can deal with directness.
But there was a lot of like whyare you homeschooling?
(27:13):
We don't believe inhomeschooling, it's bad for kids
, and people would just say thatto me point blank.
And so I would instantly getdefensive and feel like I had to
explain.
And then I realized that I don'tneed to explain like this is
triggering for someone elsebecause it's confronting their
picture of what they thinkthings should look like it has
(27:33):
nothing to do with me.
So, just kind of, if you findthat you're getting you know
messages like more than once andyou're like, oh, this is going
to come up again, I think it'dbe really helpful to just write
down like here are my like handresponses for all of these
situations, just so that we'renot in that situation where we
(27:55):
have that deer in headlightmoment where someone says
something and then we gettriggered and then we respond in
a way that makes us feel badlater because we overshared or
we gave power to someone thattook away some of our own, or we
disciplined our kids in apublic situation to make
somebody else feel better whenit was the completely wrong
(28:15):
thing to do for our child.
So I think if we canproactively plan for those
scenarios, then they're notgoing to trip us up as much and
then we'll start to feel moreempowered and confident and it
won't rattle us as much whenpeople do that.
Dr. Amy Moore (28:31):
Can you share some examples that you added in
the book of how you wouldrespond or how you did respond?
Debbie Reber (28:39):
I don't remember what I wrote in the book, but I
will say that I, you know, somethings are like, oh, this is
really, this is a really goodfit for our family right now,
and that's a complete sentence.
Like that's it, like you don't,I don't need to go on more than
that.
Or like you know.
Or sometimes it's like, wow,your kid is too old to be doing
(29:00):
this.
It's like, oh, you know, thisis a really hard situation for
for my child right now, butwe've got it.
Thanks for your concern.
You know, just like very kindof.
It doesn't have to be mean, but, um, or you know, a lot of our
kids are asynchronous developers, right, so they may be, have
(29:21):
the what you know, operating atan emotionally lower age than
their biological age, butmeanwhile, cognitively, they
might be doing something that acollege student is doing, and so
I think that's another one.
People sometimes get confusedand it's like, oh, we're
focusing on other things rightnow, like this isn't a priority
(29:43):
for us right now.
We're really going all in onart, because that's what we're
doing.
Again, complete thought, fullsentence period.
We don't need to over explain.
That can feel reallyuncomfortable for a lot of us,
Because I mean think about whenwe're making an excuse for
(30:03):
saying no to something we'vebeen invited to, like we feel
like we have to make it or givethem a reason and explain all
the things, and actually we canjust say, oh, I can't make it,
thanks for asking, like, that'sit.
So it's kind of retraining usto have some healthy boundaries
and just realize that otherpeople don't need to be in our
(30:24):
business.
Dr. Amy Moore (30:26):
I love that.
Yeah, I used to say to my ownmom who would give me parenting
advice that's a really greatsuggestion.
I'll think about that, yeah,and so there's not a way to
argue with that comment, right?
Like you're saying, it's a fullsentence, it's a full thought
and it kind of shuts down theconversation there.
(30:47):
I mean, there isn't much elseto argue about.
Debbie Reber (30:50):
Yeah, yeah.
Or like I'm so glad that worksfor you, right, like I'm so glad
that book was like the answerto your whatever.
Dr. Jody Jedlicka (31:00):
Yeah.
Debbie Reber (31:01):
Yeah.
Dr. Jody Jedlicka (31:03):
One of the things that you talked a lot
about, debbie I don't know if itwas all in the book or if it
was on one of the podcastepisodes that I listened to was
how parents can be kind of theirchild's safe space so that
you're almost using your ownenergy to calm them and keep
them calm, and I really lovedthat.
(31:24):
I don't know what my questionis in that, but if you could
talk a little bit about thatjust being able to calm them in
those situations where thingsget out of hand.
Debbie Reber (31:35):
Well, yes, I did write about that in the book.
There's a tilt about our ownenergy.
I don't remember what thechapter is called, but it's this
idea that we can use our energyfor good or for bad when we're
with our kids.
And I wrote about a time that Irealized in a really profound,
(31:56):
like light switch kind of a way,how the way that I responded to
an incredibly dysregulatedlittle kid from a place of calm
and groundedness, like it endedwhat was happening immediately
and I was like, oh my gosh, likethis is a superpower, like all
(32:17):
I have to do is stay like thisfor the rest of my life and
we're good to go, like no moreregressions, no more meltdowns.
Of course that wasn't possible.
It's not possible for any humanto do that.
But I really started to getcurious about the way that my
energy and the way that I wasand responded to Asher when Ash
(32:42):
was dysregulated could reallymake or break any situation.
Of course Dr Dan Siegel talksabout this and and Tina Payne
Bryson in their book the WholeBrain, child and Mirror Neurons
and and what's really happeningand the way our brains are
communicating.
And now you know, in recentyears there's been so much
conversation about co-regulation, and Dr Mona Della Hook talks a
(33:06):
lot about this in her amazingbooks and Tina Payne Price does
as well.
Anyway, I feel like what Ithought was like, well, I've
just discovered somethingamazing.
It's like, actually, you know,this is neuroscience, debbie,
and it is so powerful what wecan do to the way our nervous
(33:29):
system talks to another human'snervous system, and it is my
daily work right now, like it,it has been this whole time.
But now raising you know,having a teenager I am it's all
about me figuring out how can Ico-regulate, because what I've
learned I just interviewed Danafor my podcast.
(33:51):
She is kind of a translator ofpolyvagal theory that we are
always co-regulating witheveryone around us, like it's
just what we don't even knowwe're doing it and so that is.
It's an incredible thing tothink about, and so knowing that
we can really support a personwho's dysregulated by staying
(34:11):
regulated ourselves is it issuch a worthy endeavor to try to
do.
It's not easy to do, because weget triggered when our kids are
like venting at us or you know,we're the recipient of all of
their stuff.
It can be really hard, but towork to get back to that place
is really important.
Dr. Jody Jedlicka (34:31):
Yeah, I feel like that's such an important
tool to have in your toolboxbecause it doesn't say that
their reaction is good or bad oranything.
It's just this is what I can doin this situation, yeah.
Dr. Amy Moore (34:43):
So powerful and that tilt is called.
Recognize how your energyaffects your child.
Debbie Reber (34:49):
Yes, yeah.
Aka co regulation yeah, yes.
Dr. Amy Moore (34:54):
I've heard that described as having one foot in
and one foot out.
So you have one foot into theirspace, right?
But while anchoring yourselfwith your emotions in your space
yeah, so that you're not fullyin theirs, right?
Because then their energy isgoing to impact you and trigger
you, like you're saying yeah.
Debbie Reber (35:15):
Yeah, yeah.
I use the metaphor always oflike I'm really good at jumping
in the pool with my kids and soI'm really trying to stay on the
deck and not go into the pool,but I'm there in case I need to
throw a life, you know a ring.
Or, as someone else just sharedthis metaphor with me, of like
your, your kid, can be up in atree, like waving their arms,
(35:37):
and you know having a freak out,and you're just stay on the
ground.
Like you're there, you're, butyou don't want to get up in the
tree with your kids.
You want to stay solidly on theground.
Dr. Amy Moore (35:47):
Yeah, I like those metaphors.
You could keep your legsdangling in the water while you
sit on the edge of the pool.
Debbie Reber (35:52):
Yeah, sure have a margarita or something yeah.
Dr. Amy Moore (35:56):
Right.
Dr. Jody Jedlicka (35:57):
Now we're talking.
All right, so we need to lettake a break and let Dr Jodi
read a word from our sponsor,and when we come back, Debbie,
we want you to tell us a littlebit about your podcast and your
(36:18):
club and how listeners canengage with you when we come
back.
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Dr. Amy Moore (37:19):
Okay, and we're back talking with author Debbie
Reber.
Debbie Reber (37:29):
So, debbie, talk to us about your podcast and you
have a club and just sharethose resources with our
listeners.
Sure, thank you.
Yeah, so till parenting, whichI'm coming up on seven years,
I'm just going to say, which iscrazy pants to me, but it
started as a podcast and that'sstill kind of my key way of
sharing resources.
I've got more than 300 episodesand and I will just say, if you
go back in the archives, I usedto do conversations with Asher
(37:54):
when Ash was 11 and 12.
And we'd have these greatconversations about what does it
feel like to be distracted,what does it feel like when
you're frustrated?
So those are really funepisodes, but just conversations
with authors, parents, thoughtleaders and anything having to
do with neurodivergence.
So I love my little podcast andit's also Tilt has kind of
(38:16):
evolved into a community.
So we have a pretty activeFacebook group called Tilt
Together and that I startedthree years ago, the Differently
Wired Club, which is my way tokind of get in the weeds with
parents and you know we have alot of office hour calls we do
we read a book together everymonth and have the author come
in and talk with us and it'sjust a really supportive
(38:39):
community of parents who are init and who get it and again,
including me.
I always create what I need andI still need the club.
So I love the Differently WiredClub and then I just want to
share for listeners too.
I have some really good freeresources on there.
I have something called theDifferently Wired 7-Day
(39:01):
Challenge, which every day is alittle video that includes a
tilt, a reframe, that you canjust play with.
It's a little tweak that youcan make in your life to see how
you might be able to shiftthings in a way that feels
better for you and your family.
I have a new series I just putup that's also free.
(39:21):
It's called 10 Things you Needto Know About Raising a
Differently Wired Kid and it'sbasically if I could go back and
tell myself here's what youneed to know.
These are those things, andsometimes I wish I could have a
do-over, but that's not gonnahappen.
And then I have a roadmap forparenting a differently wired
kid as well, which is aninteractive PDF with a ton of
(39:42):
resources for how to kind ofmove through this, this journey.
It's not a linear journey, asyou guys know, but but there are
kind of different phases thatwe find ourselves in in repeat
as we go through this parenting.
So all of those are also attiltparentingcom.
Dr. Amy Moore (40:02):
Fantastic.
So, listeners, debbie's book,like I had mentioned in the very
beginning, has 18 differentchapters that talk about
suggestions for reframing howyou parent, suggestions for
(40:22):
reframing how you parent, fromconnecting with others to being
on the same page with yourspouse, to ensuring that you
take time for self-care, tobeing an advocate for your child
, and and those interactions andhow we interact with our child.
Just full of great tips andexercises that I wish I had read
20 years ago when I startedparenting diverse kids.
(40:45):
So we do encourage you to takea look at her book and her
resources.
Debbie, is there anything thatyou haven't gotten to say to our
listeners that you would liketo leave us with today?
Debbie Reber (40:59):
Yeah, I've got a few things actually.
No, I will say one is that Ialways like to just remind
people that our kids are notbroken and I think, especially
if you're newer to this journeyof realizing that this path is a
different path than I expectedor oh no, we just found this out
(41:22):
, this is happening and we'vegot to do.
You know, we kind of get intopanic mode and just kind of take
a pause and take a breath andsay you know what?
This is okay, like we don'tneed to fix anybody here.
We need to figure out how tosupport this human on their
unique journey and we're allunique, and so kind of leaning
into that and getting out ofthat kind of panic fix it mode
(41:45):
would be important.
And I don't remember the otherthing I was going to say, but it
was going to be good, but we'lljust stick with the.
Dr. Jody Jedlicka (41:51):
We'll just stick with the get out of it.
I think the community that youoffer on so many different
levels for people is justunbelievably valuable.
So I know of at least a couplewho are going to get an email
from me saying you really needto listen to this.
It's awesome.
That's awesome.
Debbie Reber (42:12):
Thank you, I did think of what I wanted to say.
Do you want me to say itAbsolutely Before it leaves my
brain again?
Do you want me to say itAbsolutely Before it leaves my
brain again?
I just want to say that one ofthe tilts in there is about
respecting your child's uniquetimeline and that to me, I feel
like now, especially in thesequote unquote post COVID days,
(42:33):
and there's so much we'relearning about our kids
development or maybe learningyou, maybe learning loss or
whatever's going on, and Ireally want to encourage people
to, if you find yourself gettingpanicked and stressed about
your child being behind, to justagain take a deep breath and
realize every child is on theirown unique timeline and every
(42:56):
child has has their uniquestrengths and their head and
other areas where they may belagging.
But we don't have to figure itout all out right now.
Like, really lean into thestrengths that your child has
and really focus on supportingthem and feeling good about
themselves and knowing about whothey are, and don't stress
(43:16):
about that compare and despaircycle.
Don't think all these thingshave to happen this way.
You know abc, they don't likewe get to figure out the right
path for our families and ourkids.
There is no one way that thishas to look.
So if you're feeling stressedabout that, I'm just going to
encourage you to take a breathand be like it's going to be
okay.
We can do this on our own terms.
(43:37):
I love that and I'm going to beokay.
Dr. Amy Moore (43:38):
We can do this on our own terms.
I love that and I'm going tosay something a little
controversial here.
But in response to the panicthat I've been seeing over the
learning loss during COVID,everyone is behind.
So, yes, schools reallystruggled to help kids make a
(43:58):
year's progress in a year's timeduring the lockdown, but
everyone was in that same boat.
So compared to whom far behindare your children actually
falling right?
Like the entire country is inthe same situation, and so we
can all just commiserate aboutthat right and we can all say,
(44:21):
all right, it happened, let's dothe work we need to do.
So, don't panic.
All right, Well, we are out oftime and need to wrap up, so
this has been a fantasticconversation today.
Thank you so much, Debbie, forbeing with us Listeners.
If you would like moreinformation about Debbie's work,
(44:42):
her website is tiltparentingcom.
You can find her on Facebook,Instagram and Twitter at Tilt
Parenting.
We'll put all those links andher handles in the show notes,
including how to purchase herbook as well.
So thank you so much forlistening today.
If you liked our show.
We would love it if you wouldleave us a five-star rating and
review.
On Apple Podcasts, you can findus on every social media
(45:05):
platform.
At the Brainy Moms, you can goto brainymomsco if you want to
visit our website.
So look until next time.
We know that you're busy momsand we're busy moms, so we're
out.
Dr. Jody Jedlicka (45:18):
Have a great week everybody.
Hi and welcome to this episode of Brainy Moms
brought to you today byLearningRx Brain Training
Centers.
I am your host, dr Amy Moore,joined by my co-host, dr Jodi
Jedlicka, and we are coming toyou today from a very sunny but
a little chilly Colorado Springs, colorado, and joining us all
the way from Brooklyn, new York,is our guest, debbie Reber.
All the way from Brooklyn, newYork is our guest, debbie Reber.
(00:24):
Debbie is a parenting activist,best-selling author, keynote
speaker and founder of TiltParenting, a website, podcast
and resource for parents who areraising differently-wired
children.
A regular contributor toPsychology Today and Attitude
Magazine, debbie's newest bookis called Differently Wired a
(00:44):
parent's guide to raising anatypical child with confidence
and hope.
In 2018, she spoke at TEDxAmsterdam, delivering a talk
called why the Future Will BeDifferently Wired.
After living abroad in theNetherlands for five years,
debbie, her husband and herDifferently Wired teen moved to
Brooklyn in 2019.
(01:05):
Welcome, debbie.
Debbie Reber (01:07):
Thank you, I'm happy to be here.
Dr. Jody Jedlicka (01:09):
Yeah, good morning, Debbie.
I love how you call yourself aparenting activist.
When I was listening to yourpodcast, that seemed like such
an appropriate way to describeyou.
Can you tell us a bit aboutyourself and why you decided to
write the book Differently Wiredand how you even came up with
(01:29):
that term Differently Wired?
Debbie Reber (01:32):
Yes, so I am, as you mentioned, the mom of a now
18-year-old kid, one child andthis was not my plan to do any
of this, to create, to write,Differently Wired.
I used to work as an author forbooks for young adults and
teenagers and I would speak toyoung women because I was a
(01:54):
recovering teen myself andworked in kids TV before that
and so I was just kind ofhumming along when I realized
that my parenting journey wasgoing to be a little more
intense than, or different than,what I had expected.
I don't know what I expected,but not what was unfolding
before me, because I discoveredthat the child I was raising was
(02:18):
neurodivergent, which at thetime we discovered that we
didn't know what that meant orwhat was really involved, but we
just knew that things weregoing to be a little more
challenging.
And so you know, going througheverything we went through over
the years of trying to figureout a path for my child named
Asher, figuring out a path forAsher, figuring out a school,
(02:41):
multiple school situations,understanding how to support
this kid and really supportmyself as a parent and a partner
in going through this.
I really wanted to figure outhow to support other parents
then in this journey because itis it can be very isolating and
very overwhelming.
(03:02):
It can feel impossible at timesto find the right resources and
to just know how to navigatethis.
And so when I kind of got Iwouldn't say I got through it
because I'm still in it but whenI really kind of learned more
about this journey, I knew thatI wanted to use my skills of
(03:22):
sharing resources andinformation and writing and help
other parents feel less alonein this journey, and that's why
I ended up writing DifferentlyWired.
Dr. Jody Jedlicka (03:31):
I love that you saw the need or the hole and
you used the gifts that you hadto be able to fill that need.
Where did you come up with theword tilt?
Debbie Reber (03:47):
Yeah.
So there's a story which I canshare with you.
And first I will say it's notan acronym.
A lot of people think it is,and to that I say, if you come
up with something good thatworks with T-I-L-T, let me know.
Maybe it can become an acronym.
But you mentioned it when youread my bio that we had moved to
the Netherlands, and when wedid that it was in 2013.
(04:10):
And we just threw all the rulesout the window.
We decided to radically changeour lives.
I became a homeschool parentWasn't my plan either, but
that's what happened.
And it was this reallyinteresting time.
And the summer before we moved,we went to the Jersey shore and
we were riding Asher and I wenton the tilt a whirl.
(04:32):
If you know that ride, you cankind of hold on and it whips you
around unexpectedly.
You never know when the nextone's going to come.
And so my husband took apicture of Asher and I on the
tilt a whirl and caughtWhirl andcaught us kind of mid-whip and
we have these big smiles on ourfaces and our hair is blowing
back and we're just holding onfor dear life.
But we're excited, but nervous,and it really captured to me
(04:57):
the big changes we're making inour world.
And so when we moved abroad, Istarted a blog called Tilt a
World where I started sharingwhat we were doing and what I
was learning.
And so then, a few years later,when I started realizing I
wanted to create a community anda resource for parents, I had
pages of brainstorms for namesof this that I would run them by
(05:22):
Asher, and Asher would say noto most of them because it was
like, well, that has a negativeconnotation and this sounds like
this and this is you know.
And a friend said what aboutthat word tilt?
It really captures so muchabout what you're trying to do,
which is reframe things.
Tilt the conversation.
We all need to kind of approachneurodivergence and what's
(05:44):
happening with our kids throughthis different lens.
And as soon as she said it, Iwas like that's the word.
And then Asher approved, so Imoved forward with that.
Dr. Amy Moore (05:55):
Yeah, I think when I saw that you label your
chapter in the second half ofyour book, you, you label your
chapters tilt number one, tiltnumber 17, right, and so to me
it just said, hey, paradigmshift number one, like new way
of thinking, number two right,or new way of doing.
(06:16):
I mean you tilt your parentingperspective and your parenting
practices and you actually youhad a quote in your book that
made me cry.
You said people apologize forthings they've done, wrong,
things they regret.
My son apologized for who he isand I have three neurodiverse
(06:43):
kids and so completely relatedto that and just knowing the
struggles that they had inschool and with teachers not
understanding, and so I love theidea that your response to that
is, hey, we have to think abouta different way of parenting
(07:04):
rather than trying to change ourchild.
We need to look at this wholeparenting process differently,
right?
Debbie Reber (07:11):
Yeah, yes, and I you know that was based on a
story that I share of my childapologizing and just realizing
that he was doing it all thetime.
And when I realized that thatwas a conditioned response
really to what had beenhappening in school, it did
break my heart.
And you know that when I wrotethat book even was now seven
(07:36):
years ago I I'm excited to seethat I feel like the shift is
happening.
There's maybe it's just who Ihang out with, because I spent
all my time talking to peoplewho are in this, but I do feel
like there is an increasingawareness of the fact that being
differently wired is is adifference, it's not a deficit,
(08:00):
and that everyone benefits whenwe, instead of trying to get
these kids to be compliant or tobetter fit in, that we really
lean or they're doing it wrong,or they're broken, or they're
bad.
You know they're the bad kids.
That can last a lifetime.
(08:32):
I mean it's.
It's really heartbreaking whenyou think about how many kids
are growing up with thisinternalized sense that I'm a
screw up, you know, or I'm notsmart.
Dr. Amy Moore (08:42):
Yeah, so I want you to.
I want to dig in a little bitabout some of these tilts for
our listeners.
But before we do that, can youtalk a little bit about this
idea of getting into thatcompare and despair cycle and
what that means?
Debbie Reber (09:03):
Yeah, I mean a lot of us raising these kids live
in that cycle, I think,especially around graduation
time or you know any kind ofmilestones, because I think we,
as parents of these kids, ourexperience is often different
from what we expected and it'sdifferent from what we may see,
(09:25):
you know, happening around us inour community, or with other
parents or with other familymembers who are raising their
own kids, and so we can oftenget the reminder that this looks
different, this is harder, thisis more intense, or your child
is not going to have thisexperience, or you know all of
(09:47):
these things Cause we have thispicture in our mind about what
our kid's life is going to belike, what our experience as a
parent's going to feel and looklike, and then we see what's
happening around us and it itcan be really hard to not hold
our experience up to thosestandards and then to feel like
(10:08):
we really drew the short straw.
And I mentioned graduationbecause that is one of those
times where we start seeing onsocial media the pictures of
so-and-so just performed at thisrecital, or just won this award
in the class for being the mostrespectful student or being you
know all of this stuff.
And then we've got these kidswho are incredible and are such
(10:33):
sensitive, lovely, complicated,fascinating people who aren't
going to win those awards and wemay not get a picture of them.
They may have had such anegative experience at school
that they don't even want to goto an event, they may be
disinvited from events, and sothat compare and despair cycle
(10:54):
of looking at these things andkeeping ourselves stuck in that
feeling like I wish this was ourlife.
But this is our life and thetension between those, you know,
can be really painful, and it'spain that we're really keeping
ourselves in if we're kind ofmired in that cycle because
(11:14):
we're continually focusing onwhat we don't have as opposed to
leaning into the awesome humanthat we're raising and kind of
redefining what success and joylooks like for ourselves.
Dr. Amy Moore (11:30):
And so where do parents start?
How do they start breaking thatcycle?
Debbie Reber (11:37):
Well, I think noticing it is the first thing,
and that's kind of a themethroughout my book.
So much of this is kind ofdoing our own deep inner work,
to start paying attention to thethings that trigger us, the
times we feel sad or frustratedor overwhelmed, or you know that
default thought of this isalways going to be hard, or
(12:00):
we're using language like mychild will never, you know, x,
whatever that is.
So we need to disrupt that.
We need to catch ourselvessaying those words, thinking
those thoughts, feeling thosefeelings, and not that we
they're not valid.
Like I'm a fan of experiencingthe feeling and trying to dig
(12:23):
deeper and understand what'sreally going on, because usually
it's, you know, it's underneath.
That is this concern about ourkids not being happy, which is
what we want.
We want our kids to grow up tobe happy, fulfilled humans who
can contribute to the world andfeel good about themselves.
So I think we need to kind ofuncover what's really going on
(12:45):
and then start to just do ourown work to reframe and to look
for the bright spots in our ownfamily and to to realize that
social media, whatever we'reseeing, that's not real either.
You know what we're kind ofimagining everyone else's life
is like is not actually whattheir life is like, and we
(13:07):
really want to just go into ourfamily.
Where do we find joy?
What works for us, what are ourstrengths?
How do we have fun?
What does success look and feellike for us and how can we do
this on our own terms?
And the more we can kind ofstay in that space, then what
other people are doing it's notgoing to impact us as much.
Dr. Jody Jedlicka (13:28):
Debbie, in your book you talk a lot about
education and I think that'ssuch a huge part of kids' lives
and parents' lives, and myhusband and I have both worked
in education and I often saythat kids develop, kids with
challenges develop what I callschool PTSD.
(13:50):
It's just you know theseexperiences that they've had,
that frame how they think andlook at themselves, and so can
you talk about some of thelimitations of various types of
schooling public, charter,private for differently wired
children and some of thediscoveries that you've made
(14:14):
surrounding those differentchoices?
Debbie Reber (14:18):
Yeah, I mean education is, I think, the
biggest challenge when our kidsare younger, because that's
really one of their primary jobs.
Right is to play and learn andso often for us those of us
raising these kids it isn't likelet's go to the neighborhood
school and they're good to gofor the next 12 years.
It doesn't often look that way.
(14:38):
I think there are challengesand and potentially you know,
pluses and really every type ofschool, I think for public
school, which is where most ofthese kids end up, if they have
a formal diagnosis, then thepossibility of them getting an
IEP or having a 504 plan can canwork.
(15:00):
It depends on the schooldistrict.
I think the challenges of thepublic school system is the
limitations with how mastery andknowledge has to be
demonstrated.
Or, you know, there's so manytests that have to be taken and
standardized tests and you haveto check all of these boxes and
(15:21):
a lot of these kids learndifferently and they may have a
very different way ofdemonstrating knowledge and
there isn't much wiggle room ina public school system.
I think there's more than wesometimes think, because
sometimes the school will saynope, can't do that, and then we
accept that and I think there'smore room to push and some
school districts are more openthan others, but a lot of it
(15:44):
comes down to having a teacherwho really sees that kid, and a
good teacher can make all thedifference, as you know, and a
good IEP plan.
But even IEPs tend to be sofocused on a behavior as opposed
to the underlying stressorsthat are causing the behavior,
(16:05):
or you know that those behaviorsare coping strategies for.
So I think public school canwork, but it can be really
tricky.
Also, the size of theclassrooms and you know, for a
lot of these kids sensory issuesare a big deal, and so bigger
classrooms can be overwhelming.
And then private schools canwork great.
(16:25):
It really depends on the school.
I think the challenge with kindof a more mainstream private
school and by that I mean onethat isn't specialized for
learning, disabilities andthings I think they don't have
to provide any supports if theydon't want to, and so that can
be really challenging.
(16:46):
Living in the Netherlands, themost expats send their kids to
an international school.
So I looked at them and theywere like nope, we can't do that
, we can't support ADHD, wedon't have the resources, and
that's the same in a lot ofplaces that they, and legally
they, can say no.
So I think parents can feellike they have less of a voice
(17:08):
in a public school.
And if it works, it can workgreat, and if it doesn't work it
can be ugly.
As I write about in my book, wehad some pretty gnarly breakups
with some schools in earlyelementary and a lot of then.
You know what's happening now.
There are a lot of microschools cropping up, which is
really exciting to see.
(17:29):
A lot more specialized schoolsfor kids who are twice
exceptional or have otherlearning differences, and those
can be really expensive.
So that can be really trickyand a barrier for so many
families.
And then a lot of families endup homeschooling, which you know
is also not an option foreveryone.
(17:51):
It worked really really wellfor us.
What I find is that a lot offamilies with these
neurodivergent kids a majorityof them will spend at least some
time homeschooling, even ifit's like an emergency situation
or a school refusal situation,and so they pivot to
homeschooling to get through aseason or a certain phase and
(18:13):
then they try to find a betterfit.
So I think homeschooling can bea great option if it's
available to you, because thenwe're not like focused on these
arbitrary guidelines orapproaches that have nothing to
do with the way our kid learns.
We can really tailor aneducational experience that is
(18:36):
rooted in their strengths andthat is can be a really great
gift, especially, as youmentioned PTSD, to get these
kids out of that cycle.
It can take a while actually todetox from a negative school
experience, months or years even.
Dr. Amy Moore (18:52):
So what is your advice?
I think one of your tilts is,um, to make a ruckus when you
need to, and so talk about thatin terms of your advice to
parents who have no other optionbut to go to public school.
Right, they're dual workingfamilies or they don't have the
(19:13):
resources to pay for a privateprogram and they can't
homeschool.
Apply that tilt to how they canbe advocates for their children
in public school.
Debbie Reber (19:26):
Yeah, I mean, I think I think there's a lot more
, as I said, that we can do,that we don't know is available
to us.
You know we often are relyingon other people to tell us what
to do.
You know we're not all expertsin IEP.
I mean, even the word IEP likemakes my brain hurt.
My kid has had IEPs.
(19:48):
I've been to IEP meetings and Istill would not consider myself
an expert in that at all and Iget really overwhelmed when I
have to go to those meetings.
And so I think kind of findingpeople who are really who
understand that system reallywell working with an educational
advocate, someone who thinkkind of finding people who are
really who understand thatsystem really well working with
an educational advocate, someonewho can kind of be there, can
be really supportive, becausethere actually is a lot that we
(20:12):
can push for in terms of thetypes of accommodations our kid
might have.
A school will.
Often, you know, there's like aboilerplate accommodations oh,
you've got this diagnosis, we'llgive you this.
There's like a boilerplateaccommodations oh, you've got
this diagnosis, we'll give youthis, this and this.
And oftentimes parents willjust say, okay, I don't know
what that stuff means, soundsgood, I'll sign it and then we
assume that it's all happening.
(20:33):
And so I think, realizing thatactually we, if we can get in
the weeds and we can say thisaccommodation isn't going to
work because of this, this iswhat we propose like we can get
in the weeds and we can say thisaccommodation isn't going to
work because of this, this iswhat we propose Like we can
negotiate A friend of mine talksabout this like buying a used
car, like it's a negotiation.
We both want to get what wewant out of it and we don't have
(20:54):
to take no for an answer.
So I think working with someoneand actually understoodorg is a
great resource in terms offinding ideas for what you can
ask for in an IEP, but there isoften more we can push for.
We also need to know that we canask for IEP meetings at any
time.
(21:14):
So if we realize the teacherisn't enforcing an IEP, or
actually it says they're goingto do this, but none of this is
happening, we can ask foranother meeting and we can go in
and say we need to make somechanges and so, knowing that
it's more of a living, breathingdocument and that we can
continue to advocate, I think alot of parents are worried about
(21:37):
being that parent.
Right, we want to be liked.
We don't want people to be like, oh God, there's that mom again
, like walking down the hallway,and then we're also getting
often phone calls right oremails for early pickup, and
we're the ones who get callsfrom the principal or whatever
because of what happened on theplayground.
(21:58):
And so we can lose some of ourpower in that, because we feel
embarrassed or judged and we caninternalize that.
And so I think we want to likekind of reframe that to be a
good advocate and know, listen.
What matters is this kid'sexperience.
What matters is that my childfeels successful in school.
(22:20):
I know that's what you want asa school, that's what I want as
a parent and that's what thischild deserves.
So how are we going to makethat happen?
And so we're really working tobuild an alignment with the
educators involved and then justknowing this is going to be
something we're going to keeptweaking together.
It's not a once and done kindof thing.
Dr. Amy Moore (22:41):
Yeah, what I found was when I would negotiate
those IEPs and the 504s for mykids, was that the teachers
actually appreciated suggestions, right, because they sometimes
feel like, well, we've tried A,b and C and it hasn't helped.
And so for the parent to cometo the table and say, well, this
has worked for me at home.
(23:02):
What if you tried this, youknow, in the classroom, like I
got less pushback on that than Iexpected.
And then I also found that if Ileveraged the relationship with
the pediatrician my child'spediatrician or whoever
(23:22):
diagnosed my different children,and said, hey, I drafted an
accommodations letter, would youput this on your letterhead
Right?
Save your pediatrician the work.
They're typically more thanhappy to say, hey, here's our
recommendation.
And then you kind of have alittle bit of you know, some
(23:42):
credibility behind yoursuggestion too.
Debbie Reber (23:45):
Yeah, I love that.
I mean, you're just gettingcreative and I think, again, it
requires us because not all,some of us, maybe a lot of us,
are non confrontational peopleand so for us, we don't we're
worried that we're going to beperceived as antagonistic and so
and we also want to trust, youknow, or defer to the wisdom of
(24:10):
people that we perceive to bemore educated about this than we
are, but that's not always thecase and so you know, I love
that.
That your child's teacher wasopen to that.
I've had mixed experiences.
I've had teachers love that andI've had teachers been like I
know what I'm doing.
Thank you very much.
Dr. Jody Jedlicka (24:28):
So I think it really depends Absolutely.
Weirdly, I've been on bothsides of the table of an IEP too
, and I think sometimes thestaff of the school wants to be
non-confrontational as well, andso I think that also can be
frustrating for parents, becausethey know something needs to be
done and they're happy that yousee all the good things, but
(24:49):
they want to know what are wegoing to do to move forward with
this, and so I think it makesparents feel validated when
everybody's on the same page.
Debbie Reber (25:01):
Yeah 100%.
Dr. Amy Moore (25:04):
So talk a little bit about how parents can react
to other people shoving theiropinions at you about, well,
what your child should be doingright now, or, developmentally,
how come your child isn't doingthis right now?
Give our listeners some adviceon how they can respond to those
(25:24):
suggestions from others.
Debbie Reber (25:28):
Well-meaning, often suggestions, but very
misguided.
Yeah, I mean there's no easyanswer in terms of how to do
this, because I think a lot ofus do get triggered by that
because, again, it feelspersonal, it feels like this
person is judging and they mayvery well be judging our how
(25:51):
good of a parent we are, and weall want to feel like we're
doing a really good job, and soI think if it is something that
you get triggered by, thenthat's worth separately, before
we get to the tactical things,kind of working on that piece
Like why is this upsetting to me?
What am I making?
(26:11):
It mean that this person hasgiven me advice or has
insinuated that I don't knowwhat I'm doing, and just kind of
uncover that what's going on.
Often, like I feel like so muchof our stuff is triggered from
our own baggage that we grew upwith the feeling like we're not
good enough or we're not smartenough, and so it's worth taking
(26:32):
the time to be like oh yeah,that's that's why this is really
bothering me, just so we canmake peace with that in some way
.
And then I think it can bereally helpful to just have some
scripts at the ready for thosetypes of situations when someone
(26:52):
gives you unwanted advice orasks you a question I write
extensively in the book about.
I love the Dutch.
I'm just going to say thisDutch people are some of my
favorite people on the planetand they're super direct, which
I'm good with.
I live in New York.
I can deal with directness.
But there was a lot of like whyare you homeschooling?
(27:13):
We don't believe inhomeschooling, it's bad for kids
, and people would just say thatto me point blank.
And so I would instantly getdefensive and feel like I had to
explain.
And then I realized that I don'tneed to explain like this is
triggering for someone elsebecause it's confronting their
picture of what they thinkthings should look like it has
(27:33):
nothing to do with me.
So, just kind of, if you findthat you're getting you know
messages like more than once andyou're like, oh, this is going
to come up again, I think it'dbe really helpful to just write
down like here are my like handresponses for all of these
situations, just so that we'renot in that situation where we
(27:55):
have that deer in headlightmoment where someone says
something and then we gettriggered and then we respond in
a way that makes us feel badlater because we overshared or
we gave power to someone thattook away some of our own, or we
disciplined our kids in apublic situation to make
somebody else feel better whenit was the completely wrong
(28:15):
thing to do for our child.
So I think if we canproactively plan for those
scenarios, then they're notgoing to trip us up as much and
then we'll start to feel moreempowered and confident and it
won't rattle us as much whenpeople do that.
Dr. Amy Moore (28:31):
Can you share some examples that you added in
the book of how you wouldrespond or how you did respond?
Debbie Reber (28:39):
I don't remember what I wrote in the book, but I
will say that I, you know, somethings are like, oh, this is
really, this is a really goodfit for our family right now,
and that's a complete sentence.
Like that's it, like you don't,I don't need to go on more than
that.
Or like you know.
Or sometimes it's like, wow,your kid is too old to be doing
(29:00):
this.
It's like, oh, you know, thisis a really hard situation for
for my child right now, butwe've got it.
Thanks for your concern.
You know, just like very kindof.
It doesn't have to be mean, but, um, or you know, a lot of our
kids are asynchronous developers, right, so they may be, have
(29:21):
the what you know, operating atan emotionally lower age than
their biological age, butmeanwhile, cognitively, they
might be doing something that acollege student is doing, and so
I think that's another one.
People sometimes get confusedand it's like, oh, we're
focusing on other things rightnow, like this isn't a priority
(29:43):
for us right now.
We're really going all in onart, because that's what we're
doing.
Again, complete thought, fullsentence period.
We don't need to over explain.
That can feel reallyuncomfortable for a lot of us,
Because I mean think about whenwe're making an excuse for
(30:03):
saying no to something we'vebeen invited to, like we feel
like we have to make it or givethem a reason and explain all
the things, and actually we canjust say, oh, I can't make it,
thanks for asking, like, that'sit.
So it's kind of retraining usto have some healthy boundaries
and just realize that otherpeople don't need to be in our
(30:24):
business.
Dr. Amy Moore (30:26):
I love that.
Yeah, I used to say to my ownmom who would give me parenting
advice that's a really greatsuggestion.
I'll think about that, yeah,and so there's not a way to
argue with that comment, right?
Like you're saying, it's a fullsentence, it's a full thought
and it kind of shuts down theconversation there.
(30:47):
I mean, there isn't much elseto argue about.
Debbie Reber (30:50):
Yeah, yeah.
Or like I'm so glad that worksfor you, right, like I'm so glad
that book was like the answerto your whatever.
Dr. Jody Jedlicka (31:00):
Yeah.
Debbie Reber (31:01):
Yeah.
Dr. Jody Jedlicka (31:03):
One of the things that you talked a lot
about, debbie I don't know if itwas all in the book or if it
was on one of the podcastepisodes that I listened to was
how parents can be kind of theirchild's safe space so that
you're almost using your ownenergy to calm them and keep
them calm, and I really lovedthat.
(31:24):
I don't know what my questionis in that, but if you could
talk a little bit about thatjust being able to calm them in
those situations where thingsget out of hand.
Debbie Reber (31:35):
Well, yes, I did write about that in the book.
There's a tilt about our ownenergy.
I don't remember what thechapter is called, but it's this
idea that we can use our energyfor good or for bad when we're
with our kids.
And I wrote about a time that Irealized in a really profound,
(31:56):
like light switch kind of a way,how the way that I responded to
an incredibly dysregulatedlittle kid from a place of calm
and groundedness, like it endedwhat was happening immediately
and I was like, oh my gosh, likethis is a superpower, like all
(32:17):
I have to do is stay like thisfor the rest of my life and
we're good to go, like no moreregressions, no more meltdowns.
Of course that wasn't possible.
It's not possible for any humanto do that.
But I really started to getcurious about the way that my
energy and the way that I wasand responded to Asher when Ash
(32:42):
was dysregulated could reallymake or break any situation.
Of course Dr Dan Siegel talksabout this and and Tina Payne
Bryson in their book the WholeBrain, child and Mirror Neurons
and and what's really happeningand the way our brains are
communicating.
And now you know, in recentyears there's been so much
conversation about co-regulation, and Dr Mona Della Hook talks a
(33:06):
lot about this in her amazingbooks and Tina Payne Price does
as well.
Anyway, I feel like what Ithought was like, well, I've
just discovered somethingamazing.
It's like, actually, you know,this is neuroscience, debbie,
and it is so powerful what wecan do to the way our nervous
(33:29):
system talks to another human'snervous system, and it is my
daily work right now, like it,it has been this whole time.
But now raising you know,having a teenager I am it's all
about me figuring out how can Ico-regulate, because what I've
learned I just interviewed Danafor my podcast.
(33:51):
She is kind of a translator ofpolyvagal theory that we are
always co-regulating witheveryone around us, like it's
just what we don't even knowwe're doing it and so that is.
It's an incredible thing tothink about, and so knowing that
we can really support a personwho's dysregulated by staying
(34:11):
regulated ourselves is it issuch a worthy endeavor to try to
do.
It's not easy to do, because weget triggered when our kids are
like venting at us or you know,we're the recipient of all of
their stuff.
It can be really hard, but towork to get back to that place
is really important.
Dr. Jody Jedlicka (34:31):
Yeah, I feel like that's such an important
tool to have in your toolboxbecause it doesn't say that
their reaction is good or bad oranything.
It's just this is what I can doin this situation, yeah.
Dr. Amy Moore (34:43):
So powerful and that tilt is called.
Recognize how your energyaffects your child.
Debbie Reber (34:49):
Yes, yeah.
Aka co regulation yeah, yes.
Dr. Amy Moore (34:54):
I've heard that described as having one foot in
and one foot out.
So you have one foot into theirspace, right?
But while anchoring yourselfwith your emotions in your space
yeah, so that you're not fullyin theirs, right?
Because then their energy isgoing to impact you and trigger
you, like you're saying yeah.
Debbie Reber (35:15):
Yeah, yeah.
I use the metaphor always oflike I'm really good at jumping
in the pool with my kids and soI'm really trying to stay on the
deck and not go into the pool,but I'm there in case I need to
throw a life, you know a ring.
Or, as someone else just sharedthis metaphor with me, of like
your, your kid, can be up in atree, like waving their arms,
(35:37):
and you know having a freak out,and you're just stay on the
ground.
Like you're there, you're, butyou don't want to get up in the
tree with your kids.
You want to stay solidly on theground.
Dr. Amy Moore (35:47):
Yeah, I like those metaphors.
You could keep your legsdangling in the water while you
sit on the edge of the pool.
Debbie Reber (35:52):
Yeah, sure have a margarita or something yeah.
Dr. Amy Moore (35:56):
Right.
Dr. Jody Jedlicka (35:57):
Now we're talking.
All right, so we need to lettake a break and let Dr Jodi
read a word from our sponsor,and when we come back, Debbie,
we want you to tell us a littlebit about your podcast and your
(36:18):
club and how listeners canengage with you when we come
back.
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Dr. Amy Moore (37:19):
Okay, and we're back talking with author Debbie
Reber.
Debbie Reber (37:29):
So, debbie, talk to us about your podcast and you
have a club and just sharethose resources with our
listeners.
Sure, thank you.
Yeah, so till parenting, whichI'm coming up on seven years,
I'm just going to say, which iscrazy pants to me, but it
started as a podcast and that'sstill kind of my key way of
sharing resources.
I've got more than 300 episodesand and I will just say, if you
go back in the archives, I usedto do conversations with Asher
(37:54):
when Ash was 11 and 12.
And we'd have these greatconversations about what does it
feel like to be distracted,what does it feel like when
you're frustrated?
So those are really funepisodes, but just conversations
with authors, parents, thoughtleaders and anything having to
do with neurodivergence.
So I love my little podcast andit's also Tilt has kind of
(38:16):
evolved into a community.
So we have a pretty activeFacebook group called Tilt
Together and that I startedthree years ago, the Differently
Wired Club, which is my way tokind of get in the weeds with
parents and you know we have alot of office hour calls we do
we read a book together everymonth and have the author come
in and talk with us and it'sjust a really supportive
(38:39):
community of parents who are init and who get it and again,
including me.
I always create what I need andI still need the club.
So I love the Differently WiredClub and then I just want to
share for listeners too.
I have some really good freeresources on there.
I have something called theDifferently Wired 7-Day
(39:01):
Challenge, which every day is alittle video that includes a
tilt, a reframe, that you canjust play with.
It's a little tweak that youcan make in your life to see how
you might be able to shiftthings in a way that feels
better for you and your family.
I have a new series I just putup that's also free.
(39:21):
It's called 10 Things you Needto Know About Raising a
Differently Wired Kid and it'sbasically if I could go back and
tell myself here's what youneed to know.
These are those things, andsometimes I wish I could have a
do-over, but that's not gonnahappen.
And then I have a roadmap forparenting a differently wired
kid as well, which is aninteractive PDF with a ton of
(39:42):
resources for how to kind ofmove through this, this journey.
It's not a linear journey, asyou guys know, but but there are
kind of different phases thatwe find ourselves in in repeat
as we go through this parenting.
So all of those are also attiltparentingcom.
Dr. Amy Moore (40:02):
Fantastic.
So, listeners, debbie's book,like I had mentioned in the very
beginning, has 18 differentchapters that talk about
suggestions for reframing howyou parent, suggestions for
(40:22):
reframing how you parent, fromconnecting with others to being
on the same page with yourspouse, to ensuring that you
take time for self-care, tobeing an advocate for your child
, and and those interactions andhow we interact with our child.
Just full of great tips andexercises that I wish I had read
20 years ago when I startedparenting diverse kids.
(40:45):
So we do encourage you to takea look at her book and her
resources.
Debbie, is there anything thatyou haven't gotten to say to our
listeners that you would liketo leave us with today?
Debbie Reber (40:59):
Yeah, I've got a few things actually.
No, I will say one is that Ialways like to just remind
people that our kids are notbroken and I think, especially
if you're newer to this journeyof realizing that this path is a
different path than I expectedor oh no, we just found this out
(41:22):
, this is happening and we'vegot to do.
You know, we kind of get intopanic mode and just kind of take
a pause and take a breath andsay you know what?
This is okay, like we don'tneed to fix anybody here.
We need to figure out how tosupport this human on their
unique journey and we're allunique, and so kind of leaning
into that and getting out ofthat kind of panic fix it mode
(41:45):
would be important.
And I don't remember the otherthing I was going to say, but it
was going to be good, but we'lljust stick with the.
Dr. Jody Jedlicka (41:51):
We'll just stick with the get out of it.
I think the community that youoffer on so many different
levels for people is justunbelievably valuable.
So I know of at least a couplewho are going to get an email
from me saying you really needto listen to this.
It's awesome.
That's awesome.
Debbie Reber (42:12):
Thank you, I did think of what I wanted to say.
Do you want me to say itAbsolutely Before it leaves my
brain again?
Do you want me to say itAbsolutely Before it leaves my
brain again?
I just want to say that one ofthe tilts in there is about
respecting your child's uniquetimeline and that to me, I feel
like now, especially in thesequote unquote post COVID days,
(42:33):
and there's so much we'relearning about our kids
development or maybe learningyou, maybe learning loss or
whatever's going on, and Ireally want to encourage people
to, if you find yourself gettingpanicked and stressed about
your child being behind, to justagain take a deep breath and
realize every child is on theirown unique timeline and every
(42:56):
child has has their uniquestrengths and their head and
other areas where they may belagging.
But we don't have to figure itout all out right now.
Like, really lean into thestrengths that your child has
and really focus on supportingthem and feeling good about
themselves and knowing about whothey are, and don't stress
(43:16):
about that compare and despaircycle.
Don't think all these thingshave to happen this way.
You know abc, they don't likewe get to figure out the right
path for our families and ourkids.
There is no one way that thishas to look.
So if you're feeling stressedabout that, I'm just going to
encourage you to take a breathand be like it's going to be
okay.
We can do this on our own terms.
(43:37):
I love that and I'm going to beokay.
Dr. Amy Moore (43:38):
We can do this on our own terms.
I love that and I'm going tosay something a little
controversial here.
But in response to the panicthat I've been seeing over the
learning loss during COVID,everyone is behind.
So, yes, schools reallystruggled to help kids make a
(43:58):
year's progress in a year's timeduring the lockdown, but
everyone was in that same boat.
So compared to whom far behindare your children actually
falling right?
Like the entire country is inthe same situation, and so we
can all just commiserate aboutthat right and we can all say,
(44:21):
all right, it happened, let's dothe work we need to do.
So, don't panic.
All right, Well, we are out oftime and need to wrap up, so
this has been a fantasticconversation today.
Thank you so much, Debbie, forbeing with us Listeners.
If you would like moreinformation about Debbie's work,
(44:42):
her website is tiltparentingcom.
You can find her on Facebook,Instagram and Twitter at Tilt
Parenting.
We'll put all those links andher handles in the show notes,
including how to purchase herbook as well.
So thank you so much forlistening today.
If you liked our show.
We would love it if you wouldleave us a five-star rating and
review.
On Apple Podcasts, you can findus on every social media
(45:05):
platform.
At the Brainy Moms, you can goto brainymomsco if you want to
visit our website.
So look until next time.
We know that you're busy momsand we're busy moms, so we're
out.
Dr. Jody Jedlicka (45:18):
Have a great week everybody.
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