January 6, 2025 • 47 mins
On this episode of the Brainy Moms podcast, Dr. Amy and Sandy interview Dr. Wendy O'Connor, a Stanford-trained positive psychologist. After facing burnout and the whirlwind of transitioning into motherhood with three children in 15 months, Dr. Wendy transformed her career path and embraced the vibrant world of positive psychology. In this episode, she shares her journey and how she helps women harness self-trust and evidence-based methods to design lives filled with joy and purpose. Explore her unique approach of making "power swaps" to enhance happiness, starting with transforming FOMO into JOMO.
We talk about maintaining harmony in relationships while staying true to your values and priorities. We also discuss strategies to identify what quality time means for you and how to balance these personal needs with the expectations of others. Learn how to break free from the cycle of perpetual agreement, especially for those who struggle with people-pleasing tendencies, and establish boundaries that honor your authentic self without sacrificing connections with loved ones.
Finally, we talk about replacing criticism with curiosity and self-doubt with self-compassion. Learn how to take empowered actions that align with your values and navigate the pitfalls of overthinking.
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Brainy Moms is a parenting podcast hosted by cognitive psychologist Dr. Amy Moore. Dr. Amy and her rotating co-hosts bring listeners conversations with experts on topics in parenting, child development, education, psychology, mental health, and neuroscience. Listeners leave with tips and helpful advice for helping moms and kids thrive in life, learning, and relationships. This episode is co-hosted with Sandy Zamalis.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. Amy Moore (00:00):
Hi, smart moms and dads.
Welcome to another episode ofthe Brainy Moms podcast, brought
to you today by LearningRxBrain Training Centers.
I'm Dr Amy Moore, I'm here withmy lovely co-host, sandy
Zimalis, and hey, if you have toleave early today, be sure to
go to thebrainymomscom to checkout everything that you missed.
So Sandy and I are superexcited to welcome our guest
(00:21):
today, dr Wendy O'Connor.
Dr Wendy is a Stanford-trainedpositive psychologist and
success coach.
She helps women design theirmost meaningful, intentional and
fulfilling lives.
Utilizing her evidence-basedsuccess method, dr Wendy has
helped thousands of womenworldwide live a life they're
obsessed with.
Welcome, dr Wendy.
Dr. Wendy O'Connor (00:43):
Thank you for having me.
I'm so excited to be here.
Sandy Zamalis (00:46):
We're really super excited to have you.
So I thought we would start offby having you kind of share
what is positive psychology andkind of how you got into this
and working with women in thisarea with women in this area.
Dr. Wendy O'Connor (01:06):
Yeah.
So positive psychology, to putit simply, is the science of
happiness.
And I came across this fieldseveral years ago now when I was
going through my own burnoutperiod in life after I had three
daughters 15 months apart.
So at the time I had twothriving clinical psychology
practices.
They were built from the groundup.
I was so proud of them, thework was so meaningful,
(01:29):
everything was beautiful.
And then I had three childrenand within that period of time,
suddenly everything shifted andI started to feel more burnt out
and energy felt different.
My values started to shift.
I didn't feel as lit up by thework as I had once and I started
to say to myself I'd come homeand talk to my husband about
this too.
I'd say what's missing?
(01:49):
Like something's changed,what's going on?
He's like well, you've hadthree children in the last 15
months.
You know things are going tofeel really different.
And that wasn't enough for me.
I couldn't accept that it wasjust the transition into
parenting, into motherhood.
That would have reallycompletely tilted my reality.
So I did some self-internalwork and exploration and got
(02:12):
really curious about what wasgoing on.
And what I realized is that forme, I felt like I was in a
place of surviving and no longerthriving.
I felt like I was in this placeof languishing, checking the
boxes, going through the motions, making it till bedtime,
starting the day overGroundhog's Day, and the work
that once lit me up for manyyears wasn't really anymore.
(02:35):
My energy felt depleted and Ijust knew that there was
something that I was notfocusing on.
I was focusing on gettingthrough a day, but I wasn't
focusing or learning how toactually live a lit up life in a
new season of life.
And I'm not a person thatsettles for living a non lit up
(02:55):
existence, because it's just nothow I'm wired.
So I wasn't going to spend therest of my career in my practice
unsatisfied or unfulfilled.
I was going to figure it out.
So I came across positivepsychology and I couldn't
believe that there's a scienceof happiness.
How amazing that there'sresearch that teaches us what
really lets us be our mostflourishing, happy selves.
(03:16):
And that's when I it was thataha moment.
For me, it was ah, this iswhat's missing.
I'm not actually designing mylife to thrive, I'm just going
through motions to survive.
And when that clicked for me,that's when I knew, not only
personally what was going toshift, but also then
professionally, what I wanted tochange in my career path.
(03:37):
So that's how I got into thisspecific work.
Dr. Amy Moore (03:40):
All right.
So you totally shifted yourentire therapeutic approach
based on this stage in life thatyou found yourself in and the
emotional state that came withthat stage of life is what I'm
hearing you say was all of itright.
Dr. Wendy O'Connor (04:04):
It was the cognitive piece of it, it was
the thoughts I was having, itwas the emotional state, it was
my habits, lifestyle, the way Iwas living.
It was the whole picture hadshifted and I had made a grand
pivot.
And I gave myself fullpermission to do that, without
having any evidence orguarantees that it was going to
work.
I just knew that if I reallyled my next chapter with what I
(04:25):
teach my clients to lead with,which is self-trust, if I led
with self-trust, I wasn't goingto go wrong.
I was going to figure it outand that's what I did.
I started to close doors on myclinical practices.
I didn't take more patients Iwould still see some of the ones
that I had for a while and thenI started to branch out and to
start coaching women and to helpother women and figure out what
(04:47):
does it even mean to design alife you love?
What does it mean to show upwith zest every day?
What does life look like whenyou suddenly take the reins and
don't allow yourself to settlefor status quo anymore?
So I did.
I made a grand pivot and Ididn't have any real reason to
believe it was 100% going towork, but I just knew I needed
to try.
Dr. Amy Moore (05:08):
I love all the adjectives you use too.
I mean it just sort of it'slike you have fireworks going
off around your head when wetalk to you.
That's really Okay.
So you made this post onInstagram the other day that I
thought, oh my goodness, this isgoing to make the best episode
to talk to you about.
So the title of your post wasmake these power swaps to
(05:33):
skyrocket your bliss.
Talk about a hook, right, whois not going to click on that?
Right?
Skyrocket your bliss.
So, anyway, so I click on it,because I got to find out what
these power swaps are and youhave six of them, and so I want
us to talk about those six.
So the first one was replaceFOMO with JOMO.
(05:56):
So replace fear of missing outwith the joy of missing out.
Talk about that for us.
Dr. Wendy O'Connor (06:02):
It's funny.
I just did a deep dive trainingfor my current clients on this
topic, because it was reallyrelated to five things that I
don't care about, and because Ichoose not to care about these
things, I protect my joy.
So one of the things we reallya lot of women do is think that
there's a need for more to behappy.
(06:23):
I need to do more, need to bemore.
I always need more to get tomore success, or to get to next
level happiness, or to get tonext level beauty or whatever it
is, and the reality is that weoften need less.
We need to care less about thethings that don't truly matter
and don't truly reflect who weare.
Right, we had our pre-chatabout shopping and we know
(06:45):
Sandra does not like to shop,and so for us to have a whole
episode on shopping, sandra'sgoing to be like I'm out of here
.
This is not my jam, but notenough women do that in their
real life.
They don't let themselves reallymake decisions aligned with who
they are.
They make decisions aligned withwho they think they're supposed
to be, and one of the versionsof us that we think we're
(07:06):
supposed to be is the person whois liked, who's included, who's
invited right.
And of course, there's justinherently that desire to be
survival instinct.
We want to be included andwelcomed into a community, but
so many of us feel caught up inthis thing called FOMO, this
fear of missing out.
I'm not going to be included orI won't be invited back, or I'm
going to miss out on thememories or the opportunity.
(07:28):
And instead, when we letourselves just take a breath,
really think through if this isa thing we even want to say yes
to, if it really does align forus, we invite Sandy out shopping
.
She's going to say no, thankyou, but I appreciate the
invitation.
When we let ourselves movethrough that decision and land
with our gut on what's true tous, we get to embrace what's
(07:49):
called JOMO, the joy of missingout.
You get to actually enjoy whatyou really wanted to be doing
with your time or energy, howyou value your time or energy
being spent, and you don't getcaught up in this idea that
there's something that you'remissing just by staying home or
just by opting out or just bynot fearing a future rejection.
Dr. Amy Moore (08:11):
All right.
So my guess is that forintroverts that you work with,
this is an easy one, right?
I'm an introvert, so I havezero desire to go to that party
or zero desire to take part inthat very loud event, but my
guess would be that theextroverts that you work with
(08:33):
are probably paralyzed by thisidea, am I right?
Dr. Wendy O'Connor (08:38):
Well paralyzed, I think, might be a
strong assumption.
I think that there can be aplace where extroverts might get
a little bit more confusedabout when to say yes or no, but
that comes from a differentreason.
So extroverts saying yes to aninvitation would be because they
get lit up in a room and theylove the conversation and it
(08:58):
really brings them to life andit gives them energy.
So that's actually an alignedyes.
But when we talk about fear ofmissing out, it's really more so
that it comes from an insecureplace of feeling fear that
you're not going to be liked oraccepted or you'll be rejected.
And so when we think aboutextrovert, introvert versus fear
of acceptance, rejection now wehave a bit of a split.
(09:21):
Do you see what I mean?
Absolutely.
Sandy Zamalis (09:23):
I was thinking more of like the people pleasers
.
Right, Like the people pleasers, we're going to have a hard
time.
Dr. Wendy O'Connor (09:29):
Yes, the people pleasers have the hard
time and those who do fear likethat's where that comes from
with people pleasing that fearof being rejected or not being
liked or not being invited nexttime does feel like a true risk.
So how do we move from FOMO toJOMO?
It comes down to self-trust.
(09:50):
It comes down to and this isthe inner work and it's always
the inner work, it's always thiswork but it comes down to
really trusting that you've gotyour own back.
You don't need to be ateverything to be liked.
And if you did need to be ateverything to be liked, you're
not really liked for who.
You are right.
If you're accepted for who youare, it's okay to have a pass or
many passes, and to say no andto decline an invitation.
(10:12):
You're not going to threatenyour relationships.
But a lot of times with peoplepleasing, we get nervous that if
I'm not doing all the things tothe letter, then I'm going to
be seen differently.
Truly, the self-trust comes inwhen it's like it's okay.
It's okay if even someone's notthrilled that I said no.
It's okay if someone doesn'tlove that I declined an
invitation.
(10:32):
That's actually okay too,because I trust my relationships
, I trust myself.
I can get through it, I'mresilient, it's not something I
need to worry about, it's notsomething that has to be
threatening to me.
And then, when you giveyourself that permission, then
it's like oh, I'm so happy.
I'm cozy on the couch with ablanket and a cup of tea.
This was so the right decision,and I don't have to say that
canceled plans are my favoriteplans anymore, because I made
(10:54):
the right call for me.
Dr. Amy Moore (10:56):
It seems like it would take some boundaries work
too, and just that ability toget comfortable with saying,
okay, I'm going to protect myone day off or I'm going to say
no to things that drain me, evenif it disappoints the other
(11:17):
person.
I think I know that in mycounseling practice, boundaries
work is some of the hardest workwe have to do, but then the
most rewarding work, right Oncepeople are all in.
Dr. Wendy O'Connor (11:29):
Right.
It's tricky because there is anactual threat involved in
setting a boundary.
So we could never tell somebody, oh, just set the boundary,
everything's fine, they won'tcare, or there'll be no
repercussions or consequences,because that's not a promise
that we can make.
The truth is there are risksand there can be consequences,
but what matters more than thosemoments of consequence is being
(11:53):
true to ourselves and allowingourselves to cope with that
moment or that disappointment orthat rift, and we can do that.
But a lot of times we tellourselves that that feels too
scary or we don't trust that wecan navigate that, so we don't
even bother trying to set theboundary.
Scripts come in handy.
I have to say, with a lot of myclients we will just talk
through and I'll say, hey, Ijust set this boundary right.
(12:15):
Did that sound hateful, doesthat sound mean, does that sound
disrespectful?
And they'll always be like God.
You make it sound so easy andit's just because when you, the
intention behind a boundary isto protect, it's to protect a
relationship, it's to protectourselves, and so it's coming
from a place of love, it's notcoming from a place of hate or
or disrespect or being mean.
(12:37):
So when we say, set a boundaryin a way that, just that we do
our best for that to come across, we do mitigate some of the
risk, but there is alwaysinherently risk and we don't
have control over that.
We don't have control overeverything anyway, so we have to
pick and choose our battles,yeah.
Sandy Zamalis (12:54):
So the second thing that you wanted your
viewers and people who followedyou to replace was over
committing and changing it toquality priorities, which I feel
lands in this lane of boundarysetting.
So why don't we kind of sharewith our listeners?
How do you replace overcommitting with that quality
priorities?
Dr. Wendy O'Connor (13:15):
This taps more into aligning with our
values and this is, I think,another swap that I had
mentioned.
But it really comes down tothis values-led living.
It's really about understandingthat, as people pleasers or as
women that just want to say yesand be helpful out of the
kindness of our hearts, thatthere needs to be a limit to
that before we turn into a placeof sacrificing who we are or
(13:39):
what we need in place of thatyes.
So when we realize that we cansay yes forever, but that will
come at a cost, there will be aline where that comes to not
just being super helpful andgenerous with time.
It will turn into nowsomething's gotta give and
something's gotta be sacrificed,and now I feel unhappy or
(14:01):
resentful or frustrated orregret that I made this decision
.
So to make this swap, it'sreally about knowing what your
values are.
So if I were to say and this isa great question that your
listeners can just askthemselves, what are the best
when I think about quality timespent in my life, what are those
(14:21):
activities and who are theywith?
This is a simple way to justcut through a lot of the noise
about like, well, what do I sayyes to and what's quality and
what's not.
Ask yourself first, accordingto who I am, what I value,
meaning what matters most to me,what does quality time look
like?
If I were to completely designmy life to be only quality time
(14:42):
spent doing whatever it was thatI thought was important, what
would those things be?
And, when we know what thoseare, even write those things
down.
Keep a cheat sheet handy.
It can make it much easier toknow what your yeses are and
then what your natural no's are,and to not get those lines
crossed, because we want to behelpful and we have big hearts
(15:02):
and we have maybe the time to doit.
We want to be really discerningwith how our time is spent,
because that's actually howwe're going to decide how we
feel about our lives.
Are we fulfilled or not?
When we're overcommitted, we'rereally not fulfilled.
Dr. Amy Moore (15:19):
So what happens when you're married to someone
who has an expectation that youparticipate in additional
commitments, right?
So by deciding what is aquality priority to you, you
also have to balance what theseexpectations you know of your
spouse might be, or significantother, or whomever you're, you
(15:41):
know, responsible for in yourhome, even your kids, right?
So how do you balance?
Okay, this isn't really mypriority, but this is my loved
one's priority, and so I want tobe supportive.
How do you balance that?
Dr. Wendy O'Connor (15:55):
Yeah, it's a great question.
I think that there's adifference between our
priorities or values, and then ashared value experience as a
family or as a unit and so oneof the ways that we think about
that is to say these are thethings I prioritize and that I
value, and somebody whom I lovedearly may have different values
(16:15):
or priorities, and so how do wehonor each other's values?
How do we honor what each otherwould say is quality time spent
?
This can come down to literallymaking a decision of I want to
honor that value or I'm notinterested and I'm going to go
do my own thing, which you knowthat leads to its own outcome or
it can be a recognition of whenwe look at this is, I think,
(16:37):
why the terminology can bereally helpful for people.
When we look at each other inour relationships and
experiences and kind of thinklike oh, they care about this
and it's so annoying or it'ssuch a burden, but like I care
about this, instead of reallylooking at it like values-based
values feel deeper than just hecares about, she cares about,
(16:58):
and when we come at this from aperspective of this is a true
value for somebody, for my lovedone in this situation, can I,
am I willing to honor that value, oftentimes because there's
such love there?
We are, but it doesn't mean thatand it of course depends on
what we're talking about whenyou say like extra commitments
or obligations.
But it really comes down to ifI'm willing to honor their value
(17:21):
because I love them and this isimportant to me to support what
they love, then that's abeautiful thing.
But they're also within thatumbrella could be situations
that push us over toovercommitted or to sacrificing
ourselves, and in that situationit's like really going to be at
the micro level of like what'sthe thing coming up at the time,
instead of it being like Isupport everything that falls
(17:43):
under my loved one's value andso I'm always just at the beck
and call of whatever they needor want, versus I respect this
value of theirs and I willparticipate in supporting that
because I love them.
But that doesn't mean thatevery single thing that could
come up as an arm of that valueis the thing I need to jump for
and the thing I need tosacrifice my own needs or
(18:04):
desires for.
Dr. Amy Moore (18:08):
Yeah, what's stirring in your head, sandy?
Sandy Zamalis (18:10):
Oh the fan.
I was panicked because Ithought, oh, the fans turned on.
And I really want to hear whatDr O'Connor has to say about
this, because it is so hard withyou know, especially for the
people pleasers and I'm here forall the people pleasers that
are listening to this podcast,because I definitely am a people
pleaser it is really hard tomake that distinction with a
(18:34):
loved one and to prioritize andnot overcommit and not put
yourself last in those qualitypriority kinds of discussions,
because it can be really easy tojust slide out of the way.
So it does take some, I think,work internally to figure out
(18:57):
your own boundaries on that sideof things so that you're not
just always giving your timeaway and giving your priorities
away.
Dr. Amy Moore (19:05):
Well, and especially if you have.
Dr. Wendy O'Connor (19:07):
Oh, go ahead .
Sorry, I was just going to saythat I think, before we can be
comfortable or even experimentsetting boundaries courageously,
it's so important for us to dothe internal work, to even know
what it is that we desire invalue.
So sometimes the louder valuecan be the dominant value, and
so whoever's the loudest abouttheir value in the home could be
the one that just leads.
(19:27):
And so you're like well, Iguess I don't care that much, so
I'll just follow the lead.
And so I guess, if I reallycare, I'll figure it out later.
And that's when, a lot of times,women find themselves waking up
one day going is this really asgood as it gets?
Like this is my life, like Iwork so hard and I try so hard
and I love so hard and I'm, I doall the things and I'm so
agreeable and I want to please,and I want to please and I want
(19:48):
to appease.
But now I'm waking up and I'mlike feeling very disconnected
from my own fulfillment.
What's going on?
It's because we let ourselvesgo on too long, for too long of
an extended period, notconnecting to who we are and
what our values are.
So it's not.
The boundaries are such animportant piece, but they're the
expression of the value.
The expression of the value,and if we don't have connection
(20:11):
to those values, clearly whatthose are, then we have a real
struggle knowing how, when andhow to harness the courage to
actually express the values.
So yeah, that's a really greatpoint.
I'm glad you brought that up.
Dr. Amy Moore (20:24):
All right, so let's move on to the third one
that you posted about, and thatis replacing criticism with
curiosity.
I'm curious about that.
Dr. Wendy O'Connor (20:36):
I love that.
You are Excellent.
So, criticism versus curiosity,this is a really, really fun
one.
I again just coached on thistoday.
These are the themes.
I love my swaps.
It's like an admin calendar.
I'm like what's the next oneyou're going to open?
It's so fun.
So, yes, these swaps are sogood, they're so good, take them
(20:57):
, use them.
They will change your life ifyou do make these swaps 100%.
So criticism I think about asmostly, and do I have a
self-compassion one on there?
Is there another one coming upwith self-compassion?
Yes, what's the contrast of theself-compassion?
Self-doubt?
Okay, okay, thank you.
So with criticism, I think a lotabout if we want to live our
(21:21):
happiest existence, if we wantto live our most fulfilling
lives.
Being overly critical ofourselves or others is going to
distract us from that goal.
It just is.
It's going to be a detour thattakes us on a path of negativity
.
Negativity is the opposite ofthe positivity that we want to
experience more of.
So the idea that every time ourbrain secretes some
(21:44):
self-critical thought, we justhold on to it, we expand it, we
make it louder and broader andwe just hook into it is going to
take us down the spiral.
But if we start with, instead,swapping that spiral of
criticism with curiosity, likehuh, where did I get the idea
that?
Like, why am I thinking thisway about myself?
(22:06):
Where did I get the idea thatI'm a failure or that I'm not
good enough, or I can't, do't,can't have it, or I'm an idiot?
Whatever it is, whatever thatself-criticism is, when we get
curious about it we unlock alevel of understanding that's
going to help us make differentdecisions.
Right, we call thatself-awareness.
When we know why we're being socritical, where that story's
(22:29):
coming from, whose voice itreally is, not really ours,
where that came from originally,it helps us feel more aware of
our processes.
When we're aware of ourprocesses now, it puts us back
in the driver's seat to makedifferent decisions that align
with how we want to feel.
Criticism doesn't lead us tothe joy and fulfillment we want.
So if we can understand throughcuriosity, why this pattern is
(22:51):
happening, where it's comingfrom, it gives us the
opportunity to make a differentdecision in how we talk to
ourselves, respond to things,react to our world and therefore
get back on what I like to callour happiness highway, get back
to that place of pursuingfulfillment and not battling our
inner demons, because it's atotal waste of time.
Dr. Amy Moore (23:13):
That takes some effort, though, right.
Like a lot of times we'reentrenched in it should be this
way, or it is this way, or I amthis way, right, and so to be
able to kind of break that downa little bit and go wait a
minute.
Where did that idea come from?
Where did that belief come from?
(23:33):
That takes effort.
Dr. Wendy O'Connor (23:35):
Listen, we're not here to talk toxic
positivity stuff here.
We're here to talk the realdeal.
So the real deal of happinessis effort.
The real deal of success iseffort.
The real deal of fulfillment iseffort.
We can't fear effort.
We can't fear that.
We're't fear that it will.
We're so willing to put so muchwork into everyone else in our
lives and the idea of effortwithin our own happiness is the
(24:00):
thing that we're going to reject.
Like that has to shift.
That has to be a story thatchanges in women's minds.
It can't be all effort out andno effort in.
What we know is that the moreeffort we put into healing
ourselves, becoming moreself-aware, making these tweaks,
rewiring our mindset, thehappier we're going to be, and
(24:20):
that doesn't just benefit us, itbenefits everyone in our world.
So it's like it's worth theeffort is what I'm trying to say
, but a hundred percent, ofcourse it is.
That's why you hire me as yourcoach.
That's why you hire someone tohelp you move through this
faster, Because when we do thison our own, it's like it can.
It can take a while.
Sandy Zamalis (24:39):
I love that you said this is not a toxic
conversation, because we were,yeah, I yeah, yeah, it was my
big hiccup Cause I didn't knowwhat positive psychology was
before we were going to talk toyou today and I thought I was
like I'm going to ask herbecause part of my biggest pet
peeve in the social media world,or just general pop psychology
(25:01):
world, is like this weirdpositivity of I'm perfect as I
am and there's no room, no needto grow or learn anything new,
and it drives me insane.
So I love that you kind offramed that really well of being
positive and being curious ishow you get and unlock the next
(25:24):
level for yourself.
It's not about just acceptingthings as they are, good or bad.
There's always growth and workto be done.
Life is a journey.
You aren't perfected rightwhere you are.
Dr. Wendy O'Connor (25:36):
Right and there's no perfection.
So it's not like we're going toget anywhere, that the work
Right and it's just a matter of.
I think a lot of women thatappreciate this work are the
ones that really get it.
They just get that.
This is about a life experience, not about a finish line, and I
think the initial season oflife where we start out, maybe
out of college, and we get going, we're like there's a finish
(25:57):
line, finish line, finish lineright, get the relationship, get
the degree, buy the house, havea kid, whatever the finish line
is in your head.
But then inevitably, so many ofus wake up and we're just like,
oh, what now?
Because I did all the things,why didn't it create for me all
the outcome and results that Ithought that they would Create?
Why am I just not feelingcontent Right?
And so that level ofcontentment from for most of us
(26:19):
comes from Putting inintentional effort every single
day to be our happiest, mostfulfilled selves.
And it's not.
Yet there's a lot in socialmedia and it's funny because
someone just commented on arecent Tik TOK of mine being
like oh, toxic positivity.
And I was just like oh, youdon't even know me because you
don't even know where I stand onthis, and I stand very firmly
(26:41):
in.
There's always work to be done,and this isn't about pretending
everything's fine and rainbowsand butterflies.
It's about designing with pento paper, scripting your life
very intentionally anddeliberately.
And that's going to mean it'sgoing to be some frogs to kiss,
there's going to be some stonesto uncover, there's going to be
some work to do, but what I canpromise is that it's worth it.
(27:04):
And I actually have to say itreminds me I had a client who
started with me and this was acouple of years ago and she said
her biggest fear with signingon was what if I'm still not
happy?
Like what if it doesn't work?
And I was thinking, oh, my gosh, you're speaking for so many,
many, many women that don't takethe next step towards
(27:25):
fulfillment because the fear isthat it won't be effective and
that it won't be worth theeffort and so they're not going
to bother.
And I was just like, oh, ifonly you knew what this is
actually going to create for you.
And then she did and she's like, oh, I wish I did this sooner.
And of course you do.
But the answer truly is if youdo work, let's say we could talk
about fitness if we wanted to.
(27:46):
If you put in some work andyou're not seeing the results,
do we just scrap the wholedesire to feel healthy and well
and fit?
No, we figure out the next wayand we pivot and we refine the
practice and we get back up andgo again.
Same thing with our happinessjourney.
We find that we put all thiseffort into this relationship or
this hobby or this career orthis interest and we're hitting
(28:07):
a dead end or it's notfulfilling.
Now's our opportunity to say,okay, so let's shift.
Your decisions are not meant tobe life sentences, so we have
to stop feeling like there's thecommitment to pursuing
happiness.
Is this like daunting, scarything?
It's fun and free and flowy andthat's what it's meant for.
Dr. Amy Moore (28:25):
Yeah, I always say it's not a kidney when
people think that it's apermanent decision to try
something right.
It's not a kidney, Not a kidney.
Sandy Zamalis (28:34):
Well, it's a good segue, I think, into your next
swap, which is because I thinkthat's really coming from
self-doubt, right Like theydon't think they can do it or
make a change, and swapping thatfor self-compassion.
So let's talk about that keyaspect.
Dr. Wendy O'Connor (28:48):
Yeah, self-doubt will take you down.
Right, the energy aroundself-doubt is negative.
It's going to take you down.
It's going to pull your energydown.
Self-compassion is going topull you back up.
So what we know from KristenNeff's work in self-compassion
is that people will think, oh,this sounds fluffy, oh, this
sounds like you're lazy andcomplacent and you just can't
(29:08):
work hard and you're not a highachiever and whatever else.
But really, what we know fromthe work of self-compassion is
that it's actually going to getyou right back on your track so
much faster than pursuing theself-doubt.
When we're stuck in self-doubt,that just means that we are
reinforcing that belief throughour actions.
We feel stuck because we'vecreated a reality around this
belief.
(29:28):
We have a belief of fear of notbeing good enough.
And then we act as if that'strue and our world gets small
and we play small and the lightsget kind of dim and it gets
kind of like not so fun andshiny and exciting and then
we're like see, this is like asgood as it gets Like I can't.
How do I not doubt myself ifthis is what I'm looking at
around me?
(29:49):
But when we actually take amoment where we feel
self-doubtful and we just thinkthings like God, like am I ever
going to get out of my own way?
Or like what is wrong with me?
Or I can't seem to like getforward or get my goals reached,
or whatever.
It is when we lead there withself-compassion and
understanding, much like wewould with our kiddos.
Right, like I think about and Ishare this example like when
(30:12):
our kiddos were starting to walk, when my baby started to walk,
one started to walk much earlier.
I have twins, so the threegirls that were 15 months apart,
there was my first daughter andthen 15 months later there was
two more daughters, and so- Iwas doing the math on that
earlier and I thought maybe Ijust misunderstood her.
Dr. Amy Moore (30:30):
Maybe she meant 15 months, another one, then 15
more months and another one.
Anyway, okay.
Dr. Wendy O'Connor (30:36):
So one twin started to walk much faster than
the other one.
Okay, so we'll use them as anexample.
So when the first twin startedto walk, everyone's so excited
and it's like oh my God, you'rewalking, this is amazing.
Now the other twin, like was,would just like keep falling
Right.
So, like the self doubt wouldjust keep falling right.
So the self-doubt would just.
Let me be the voice ofself-doubt and tell me which one
is going to help her walkfaster.
(30:57):
If I'm just like, oh, you fellagain, you're never going to get
this.
I don't think you have it inyou to walk.
I'm so sorry.
You might as well just stayseated for a while, because this
is your lot in life.
This is not the way we wouldtalk to our babies learning to
walk.
But if I was like oh my God,get back up, you've got this.
This is hard, I totally get it.
This is hard, but you've gotstrength, let's get back up.
(31:18):
Now she's going to walk again.
Right, she's going to walkfaster.
Silly example, but it reallyjust demonstrates when doubt
leads, we shrink no-transcript,get back up and try again.
(31:54):
So it's really literally in theopposite direction.
A lot of times we think thatself-doubt is like, oh well, I
just need like it's almost likethis excuse or self-preservation
to just be like, oh, I can't, Ican't do it, so I'm not that
person, I'm not the one who, I'mnot the person who and you hear
people talk as if it's theiridentity instead of just
(32:15):
honoring that, like there's thisfear of not being enough or
there's doubt about who they are.
And when we lean into that withcompassion and understanding,
all of a sudden there's thisopportunity to bloom and to
shift and to change and to comeout of your box and to come out
of this shell.
And that's, and to change andto come out of your box and to
come out of the shell.
And that's when real changehappens and again, of course, so
fulfilling and worth it.
(32:35):
But, yes, it can feel hard, butthere's no way around the hard.
There's no way around the hardwe have to embrace hard
sometimes.
Sandy Zamalis (32:43):
I think it's important as adults for us to
practice being beginners atthings.
I think that kind of can helpwith this mindset that you're
kind of describing.
Trying new things and justallowing yourself to be a
beginner at something is such ahuge mind shift when you're
trying to try new things or dosomething new.
(33:05):
I started I was telling Amybefore we got on that I started
playing with watercolors andthen when you put it in a fancy
frame, so listeners, if you withwatercolors, and then when you
put it in a fancy frame, solisteners, if you go on YouTube,
you can see if you put it in afancy frame it looks fancy.
But you know it's just giveyourself permission to try
something new so that you canthen celebrate little small wins
(33:25):
and successes.
I think a lot of times you knowwhere that self-doubt comes from
is we expect perfection rightout the gate, right.
We expect to do something newand have it work out amazingly,
instead of I tried something new, boy, that was hard, but look
how far I got, or look what Igot accomplished.
I'm going to try that again.
Dr. Wendy O'Connor (33:45):
Yes, yes, it's funny you say that because
I don't like starting again.
I mean, I like I like startingagain with my like shift in
career and my and that causethat feels like it's still
coming from my wheelhouse.
But I will say I do have thispaint by number downstairs in my
kitchen that I keep looking atand it's almost just like
(34:08):
glaring at me and it's like, oh,you have to do it now.
Looking at and it's almost justlike glaring at me and it's
like, oh, you have to do it now.
I know I do, because this ispart of it.
It's really this idea ofbeginning is challenging.
There's no doubt about it and II always she called this like
the sticky period.
There's like a little sticky,little sticky zone.
So I have clients that recentlywho are talking about being
nervous about, you know, meetingnew friends and going out with
(34:29):
friends and like, is it worthleaving the couch for the fire,
for the TV?
For I don't know if I want thisanymore.
And right before we do thething we're like I don't think I
want that.
That was a bad idea.
How silly.
Who cares about this right?
But it's not actually thealigned way of thinking.
It's not what you truly want.
It's the fear zone.
(34:50):
If we think about the zones ofgrowth, the fear zone is really
uncomfortable.
But when we move through thatand we anchor into what we
actually desire and we start tolike get a little bit
comfortable with the discomfort,now we are rocking and rolling
and we can figure out what welike to do Speaking of that
quality time what we valuespending time on, and then we
can also build some resiliencealong the way, because there's
(35:11):
sticky spots of paint by numberare very intimidating for some
of us, yeah.
Dr. Amy Moore (35:17):
Okay, we need to take a quick break.
Let Sandy read a word from oursponsor, and when we come back
we have two more swaps to gothrough.
Sandy Zamalis (35:28):
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spelling performance?
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(35:50):
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Learningrx cognitive skillstraining programs are designed
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Dr. Amy Moore (36:32):
Okay, we're continuing this really fun
conversation with Dr WendyO'Connor about these swaps that
can change how we look at ourlives and how we experience our
lives, and how they help us withsome more bliss.
All right, let's talk aboutoverthinking versus aligned
(36:55):
action, so replacingoverthinking with aligned action
.
Dr. Wendy O'Connor (36:59):
I love this one.
Yeah, that's all you need tosay.
We just need to replaceoverthinking with aligned action
.
It's like if we were to spendless time.
This is the thing, and Iactually created another post
about this recently.
I wish more women knew thatthey don't need to learn another
thing before they act.
They just need to start moving.
It's overthinking that'scausing the destruction.
(37:22):
It's causing the disconnectbetween what they have and what
they want, and we need to getinto action sooner.
We just need to start movingforward faster.
And it doesn't mean in animpulsive way that I don't think
through anything I want.
I just go for everything it'sreally about.
We know we know the thing thatwe want to work on.
We know the thing that we wantto just go for everything it's
really about.
We know.
We know the thing that we wantto work on.
We know the thing that we wantto be better in our lives.
We know the thing that feelslike it's in between us and our
happiest lives.
We know what that thing is.
(37:42):
Typically, we just don't reallylet ourselves own that, because
with ownership comesresponsibility, and with
responsibility comes action, andwith action comes risk.
And now we're back in the fearzone and we're like I don't know
if I want to take the risk.
It feels too scary.
How do I know it's going towork?
You don't.
But that's the reality.
You won't know.
(38:02):
You don't know until you do.
But thinking about it willnever create it.
Thinking about it won't evercreate it.
So, instead of letting yourselfbe an overthinker and get stuck
in this pattern of like, let mejust think it through one more
time.
Or be an overthinker and getstuck in this pattern of like.
Let me just think it throughone more time.
Or let me research this thing,or let me get another
certification, or let me do the.
(38:22):
Instead of going down this likethe rabbit hole of more, cut
the pattern of overthinking andjust simply decide there is a
stepwise process to get fromwhere I am to where I want to be
.
There are steps that I wouldtake to get that.
What are those steps?
And I'm taking one of themtoday.
Whatever that, if there's 10steps, 100 steps, whatever it is
, it's really about choosing tonot spend your life in
(38:46):
contemplation and to spend yourlife in actually living it and
seeing for yourself the truth.
The truth will come from yourexperience.
So if we spend days, weeks,months, years thinking about a
thing that we want and then wego out for it and we realize it
wasn't the thing for us.
We just lost time.
Which is the most precious isour time.
(39:08):
But if we're like I think thissounds so fun or so exciting or
could be so interesting orreally cool or could make me
happy and we act on it, that'sgiving us the shortest gap
between what we think we wantand what we actually create.
And then we'll know I wantedthat, I'm so happy I went for it
, or it wasn't for me.
What's the next move?
It's that simple, but it'ssimple in theory and, of course,
(39:32):
trickier in practice, becausewe get into our thought patterns
and our habits of thinking, andso if your habit is
overthinking, this can feelunnatural.
That's okay.
It actually still is the workcatching yourself in
overthinking, cutting it off andinserting in that moment, even
in aligned action, with what youdesire.
Dr. Amy Moore (39:54):
I love that, I love everything you just said
about that.
We joke in my marriage that myhusband's a thinker and I'm a
doer, because once I've decidedthat I want to do something,
then I'm just going to go makeit happen.
But he's an Enneagram 5, whichis the investigator, and
investigators have to know everydetail about every single thing
(40:16):
before they take the first step, and so it is one of those
sticking points right with us.
I'm like just do it, just do it.
So you know, because I loveyour philosophy right of when
you do the first step and youexperience that success, or
maybe you experience, you know,a space where you just got to
(40:38):
make some adjustment, right,you're activated, right, you're
moving and you're experiencingthe happy hormones that come
along with that movement, and sothen that sort of propels us
forward to take step two.
Dr. Wendy O'Connor (40:52):
That's right .
Sandy Zamalis (40:54):
That's right.
Well, we have time for yourlast one, your last swap, which
was swapping validation fromothers for values-led life.
So let's kind of wrap things upfor our listeners with that
swap.
Dr. Wendy O'Connor (41:12):
Yeah.
So this really brings it allhome.
The way that I live and teachand preach is to live by your
values as much as possible.
Now, there are, of course,going to be moments that we have
little rumble strips on theside of the highway, moments and
we disconnect from those values.
That's normal.
But this is really about.
What I teach is following yourNorth Star, and your North Star
(41:36):
is what your core values are,what your signature strengths
are and what your deepestdesires are.
This is what I teach in myworld.
So part of that being values isreally a huge part of decision
making.
Many women come into my spaceand say I have the hardest time
making a decision, or decisionsare so difficult, or I take
forever to make a decision, butwhen we know our three pieces of
(41:57):
our North Star, decisionsbecome so much easier.
Why does that matter?
Because when we can build, whatthis does, when we align our
life with these three things, isit is going to skyrocket inner
self-trust.
You're going to trust yourselfso much more to be able to make
decisions that you know, mostlikely or more likely than not,
(42:21):
are leading you in the rightdirection of happiness and
fulfillment, and instead, whatmost people do is seek that
reassurance instead of fromwithin themselves, from other
people.
So there was a client that inthe last year has had the most
incredible transformationbecause her decisions would
often be pulled.
(42:42):
She would pull her people inher life, her family, her
friends like do you think Ishould do this?
Does this sound like a goodidea?
How does this sound to you?
And she'd ask everyone.
And then she'd come back and belike oh, I just don't know if
it's for me.
So-and-so said, this so-and-sosaid.
And I was like, oh, this isexactly what it is to be
searching for validation fromoutside of ourselves to feel
good enough or on our right pathinside of ourselves.
(43:04):
You're going through the wrongmethod to get what you want.
What you want is to know thatthis is most likely going to be
the thing for you and the way weknow that is your North Star,
not other people's limitingbeliefs, not other people's
stories and life experience thatthey're going to answer you
from.
Think about what people.
When I was like I think I'mgoing to start shifting away
(43:27):
from clinical psychology and I'mgoing to be a happiness coach,
guess what people thought ofthat.
Right, like.
They were like okay, like areyou sure, is this a good idea?
Like you have these establishedpractices, why would you leave
those or pivot to something sojust uncharted at this point?
And it was like well, becauseI'll figure it out, because
(43:51):
there's a pull, because I desireit, because it aligns for me
with my values and my strengthsand my what my dreams are right
now.
So when we can learn throughdoing to build self-trust,
validation from others fallsaway.
We don't need it anymore.
But the reason why that becomeslike this perpetual loop is
because that's where we placethe value.
(44:13):
We place value.
Value it's on our actual value,but we place value on other
people's opinions over ours,over what we want, and so we
take their word as morelegitimate than our desire.
And when we stop that and weswap letting other people's
decisions, thoughts, beliefs,opinions influence our call, our
(44:35):
life, we get to lean into whatreally makes the difference,
which is our strengths, desiresand values.
Dr. Amy Moore (44:43):
Fantastic.
Dr. Wendy O'Connor (44:44):
That's the difference, and I'm so glad.
I have to say I was justthinking as I was answering that
question.
This is why I can't get thisacross in a social media post.
There's so much to say and herewe are with this little post
that just could be.
No one's going to thinkanything of it because they
don't understand the depth ofeach of these concepts.
So I very much appreciate youbringing them all to life for
(45:05):
your audience, because this iswhere the magic happens.
When you can actuallyunderstand what we're talking
about, boom, it's such abreakthrough for people.
Dr. Amy Moore (45:13):
Well, and now you have an entire episode to
attach to your post, so thatwhen people go oh, let me dig in
, that's correct.
Yeah, wonderful, okay, how canour guests, our listeners, work
with you, find more about you?
Where can they find you?
What do you have going on?
Dr. Wendy O'Connor (45:31):
Yeah, so I'm mostly on Instagram at Dr Wendy
O'Connor, so come say hi,introduce yourself.
I have some incredible programsthat go on throughout the year,
so it always just depends onwhat aligns.
If I can ever help, I'm alwayshonored to, but just definitely
feel free to reach out and askme anything on any social media
platform that you find me on,because I'm on most of them at
this point.
Dr. Amy Moore (45:52):
All right, fantastic.
Dr Wendy O'Connor, thank you somuch for being with us today.
This was a fantasticconversation and we appreciate
you taking time out of your busyschedule to share your wisdom
(46:13):
and excitement for life and forhappiness with us today.
If you liked our show, we wouldlove it if you would leave us a
five-star rating and review onApple Podcasts.
If you'd rather see our faces,you can find us on YouTube.
If you want to learn more aboutcognitive skills and what those
look like in action and ourwork with cognitive training,
you can find Sandy on TikTok, atTheBrainTrainerLady.
We are at the Brainy Moms onInstagram and Facebook, and you
(46:36):
can find us at thebrainymomscom,so don't forget to visit us
there or our show notes for allof the resources that Dr Wendy
talked about that our sponsorhas to offer you, and just to be
able to reach more smart momsand dads like you guys.
That's all the smart stuff wehave for you today, so we're
going to catch you next time.
Hi, smart moms and dads.
Welcome to another episode ofthe Brainy Moms podcast, brought
to you today by LearningRxBrain Training Centers.
I'm Dr Amy Moore, I'm here withmy lovely co-host, sandy
Zimalis, and hey, if you have toleave early today, be sure to
go to thebrainymomscom to checkout everything that you missed.
So Sandy and I are superexcited to welcome our guest
(00:21):
today, dr Wendy O'Connor.
Dr Wendy is a Stanford-trainedpositive psychologist and
success coach.
She helps women design theirmost meaningful, intentional and
fulfilling lives.
Utilizing her evidence-basedsuccess method, dr Wendy has
helped thousands of womenworldwide live a life they're
obsessed with.
Welcome, dr Wendy.
Dr. Wendy O'Connor (00:43):
Thank you for having me.
I'm so excited to be here.
Sandy Zamalis (00:46):
We're really super excited to have you.
So I thought we would start offby having you kind of share
what is positive psychology andkind of how you got into this
and working with women in thisarea with women in this area.
Dr. Wendy O'Connor (01:06):
Yeah.
So positive psychology, to putit simply, is the science of
happiness.
And I came across this fieldseveral years ago now when I was
going through my own burnoutperiod in life after I had three
daughters 15 months apart.
So at the time I had twothriving clinical psychology
practices.
They were built from the groundup.
I was so proud of them, thework was so meaningful,
(01:29):
everything was beautiful.
And then I had three childrenand within that period of time,
suddenly everything shifted andI started to feel more burnt out
and energy felt different.
My values started to shift.
I didn't feel as lit up by thework as I had once and I started
to say to myself I'd come homeand talk to my husband about
this too.
I'd say what's missing?
(01:49):
Like something's changed,what's going on?
He's like well, you've hadthree children in the last 15
months.
You know things are going tofeel really different.
And that wasn't enough for me.
I couldn't accept that it wasjust the transition into
parenting, into motherhood.
That would have reallycompletely tilted my reality.
So I did some self-internalwork and exploration and got
(02:12):
really curious about what wasgoing on.
And what I realized is that forme, I felt like I was in a
place of surviving and no longerthriving.
I felt like I was in this placeof languishing, checking the
boxes, going through the motions, making it till bedtime,
starting the day overGroundhog's Day, and the work
that once lit me up for manyyears wasn't really anymore.
(02:35):
My energy felt depleted and Ijust knew that there was
something that I was notfocusing on.
I was focusing on gettingthrough a day, but I wasn't
focusing or learning how toactually live a lit up life in a
new season of life.
And I'm not a person thatsettles for living a non lit up
(02:55):
existence, because it's just nothow I'm wired.
So I wasn't going to spend therest of my career in my practice
unsatisfied or unfulfilled.
I was going to figure it out.
So I came across positivepsychology and I couldn't
believe that there's a scienceof happiness.
How amazing that there'sresearch that teaches us what
really lets us be our mostflourishing, happy selves.
(03:16):
And that's when I it was thataha moment.
For me, it was ah, this iswhat's missing.
I'm not actually designing mylife to thrive, I'm just going
through motions to survive.
And when that clicked for me,that's when I knew, not only
personally what was going toshift, but also then
professionally, what I wanted tochange in my career path.
(03:37):
So that's how I got into thisspecific work.
Dr. Amy Moore (03:40):
All right.
So you totally shifted yourentire therapeutic approach
based on this stage in life thatyou found yourself in and the
emotional state that came withthat stage of life is what I'm
hearing you say was all of itright.
Dr. Wendy O'Connor (04:04):
It was the cognitive piece of it, it was
the thoughts I was having, itwas the emotional state, it was
my habits, lifestyle, the way Iwas living.
It was the whole picture hadshifted and I had made a grand
pivot.
And I gave myself fullpermission to do that, without
having any evidence orguarantees that it was going to
work.
I just knew that if I reallyled my next chapter with what I
(04:25):
teach my clients to lead with,which is self-trust, if I led
with self-trust, I wasn't goingto go wrong.
I was going to figure it outand that's what I did.
I started to close doors on myclinical practices.
I didn't take more patients Iwould still see some of the ones
that I had for a while and thenI started to branch out and to
start coaching women and to helpother women and figure out what
(04:47):
does it even mean to design alife you love?
What does it mean to show upwith zest every day?
What does life look like whenyou suddenly take the reins and
don't allow yourself to settlefor status quo anymore?
So I did.
I made a grand pivot and Ididn't have any real reason to
believe it was 100% going towork, but I just knew I needed
to try.
Dr. Amy Moore (05:08):
I love all the adjectives you use too.
I mean it just sort of it'slike you have fireworks going
off around your head when wetalk to you.
That's really Okay.
So you made this post onInstagram the other day that I
thought, oh my goodness, this isgoing to make the best episode
to talk to you about.
So the title of your post wasmake these power swaps to
(05:33):
skyrocket your bliss.
Talk about a hook, right, whois not going to click on that?
Right?
Skyrocket your bliss.
So, anyway, so I click on it,because I got to find out what
these power swaps are and youhave six of them, and so I want
us to talk about those six.
So the first one was replaceFOMO with JOMO.
(05:56):
So replace fear of missing outwith the joy of missing out.
Talk about that for us.
Dr. Wendy O'Connor (06:02):
It's funny.
I just did a deep dive trainingfor my current clients on this
topic, because it was reallyrelated to five things that I
don't care about, and because Ichoose not to care about these
things, I protect my joy.
So one of the things we reallya lot of women do is think that
there's a need for more to behappy.
(06:23):
I need to do more, need to bemore.
I always need more to get tomore success, or to get to next
level happiness, or to get tonext level beauty or whatever it
is, and the reality is that weoften need less.
We need to care less about thethings that don't truly matter
and don't truly reflect who weare.
Right, we had our pre-chatabout shopping and we know
(06:45):
Sandra does not like to shop,and so for us to have a whole
episode on shopping, sandra'sgoing to be like I'm out of here
.
This is not my jam, but notenough women do that in their
real life.
They don't let themselves reallymake decisions aligned with who
they are.
They make decisions aligned withwho they think they're supposed
to be, and one of the versionsof us that we think we're
(07:06):
supposed to be is the person whois liked, who's included, who's
invited right.
And of course, there's justinherently that desire to be
survival instinct.
We want to be included andwelcomed into a community, but
so many of us feel caught up inthis thing called FOMO, this
fear of missing out.
I'm not going to be included orI won't be invited back, or I'm
going to miss out on thememories or the opportunity.
(07:28):
And instead, when we letourselves just take a breath,
really think through if this isa thing we even want to say yes
to, if it really does align forus, we invite Sandy out shopping
.
She's going to say no, thankyou, but I appreciate the
invitation.
When we let ourselves movethrough that decision and land
with our gut on what's true tous, we get to embrace what's
(07:49):
called JOMO, the joy of missingout.
You get to actually enjoy whatyou really wanted to be doing
with your time or energy, howyou value your time or energy
being spent, and you don't getcaught up in this idea that
there's something that you'remissing just by staying home or
just by opting out or just bynot fearing a future rejection.
Dr. Amy Moore (08:11):
All right.
So my guess is that forintroverts that you work with,
this is an easy one, right?
I'm an introvert, so I havezero desire to go to that party
or zero desire to take part inthat very loud event, but my
guess would be that theextroverts that you work with
(08:33):
are probably paralyzed by thisidea, am I right?
Dr. Wendy O'Connor (08:38):
Well paralyzed, I think, might be a
strong assumption.
I think that there can be aplace where extroverts might get
a little bit more confusedabout when to say yes or no, but
that comes from a differentreason.
So extroverts saying yes to aninvitation would be because they
get lit up in a room and theylove the conversation and it
(08:58):
really brings them to life andit gives them energy.
So that's actually an alignedyes.
But when we talk about fear ofmissing out, it's really more so
that it comes from an insecureplace of feeling fear that
you're not going to be liked oraccepted or you'll be rejected.
And so when we think aboutextrovert, introvert versus fear
of acceptance, rejection now wehave a bit of a split.
(09:21):
Do you see what I mean?
Absolutely.
Sandy Zamalis (09:23):
I was thinking more of like the people pleasers
.
Right, Like the people pleasers, we're going to have a hard
time.
Dr. Wendy O'Connor (09:29):
Yes, the people pleasers have the hard
time and those who do fear likethat's where that comes from
with people pleasing that fearof being rejected or not being
liked or not being invited nexttime does feel like a true risk.
So how do we move from FOMO toJOMO?
It comes down to self-trust.
(09:50):
It comes down to and this isthe inner work and it's always
the inner work, it's always thiswork but it comes down to
really trusting that you've gotyour own back.
You don't need to be ateverything to be liked.
And if you did need to be ateverything to be liked, you're
not really liked for who.
You are right.
If you're accepted for who youare, it's okay to have a pass or
many passes, and to say no andto decline an invitation.
(10:12):
You're not going to threatenyour relationships.
But a lot of times with peoplepleasing, we get nervous that if
I'm not doing all the things tothe letter, then I'm going to
be seen differently.
Truly, the self-trust comes inwhen it's like it's okay.
It's okay if even someone's notthrilled that I said no.
It's okay if someone doesn'tlove that I declined an
invitation.
(10:32):
That's actually okay too,because I trust my relationships
, I trust myself.
I can get through it, I'mresilient, it's not something I
need to worry about, it's notsomething that has to be
threatening to me.
And then, when you giveyourself that permission, then
it's like oh, I'm so happy.
I'm cozy on the couch with ablanket and a cup of tea.
This was so the right decision,and I don't have to say that
canceled plans are my favoriteplans anymore, because I made
(10:54):
the right call for me.
Dr. Amy Moore (10:56):
It seems like it would take some boundaries work
too, and just that ability toget comfortable with saying,
okay, I'm going to protect myone day off or I'm going to say
no to things that drain me, evenif it disappoints the other
(11:17):
person.
I think I know that in mycounseling practice, boundaries
work is some of the hardest workwe have to do, but then the
most rewarding work, right Oncepeople are all in.
Dr. Wendy O'Connor (11:29):
Right.
It's tricky because there is anactual threat involved in
setting a boundary.
So we could never tell somebody, oh, just set the boundary,
everything's fine, they won'tcare, or there'll be no
repercussions or consequences,because that's not a promise
that we can make.
The truth is there are risksand there can be consequences,
but what matters more than thosemoments of consequence is being
(11:53):
true to ourselves and allowingourselves to cope with that
moment or that disappointment orthat rift, and we can do that.
But a lot of times we tellourselves that that feels too
scary or we don't trust that wecan navigate that, so we don't
even bother trying to set theboundary.
Scripts come in handy.
I have to say, with a lot of myclients we will just talk
through and I'll say, hey, Ijust set this boundary right.
(12:15):
Did that sound hateful, doesthat sound mean, does that sound
disrespectful?
And they'll always be like God.
You make it sound so easy andit's just because when you, the
intention behind a boundary isto protect, it's to protect a
relationship, it's to protectourselves, and so it's coming
from a place of love, it's notcoming from a place of hate or
or disrespect or being mean.
(12:37):
So when we say, set a boundaryin a way that, just that we do
our best for that to come across, we do mitigate some of the
risk, but there is alwaysinherently risk and we don't
have control over that.
We don't have control overeverything anyway, so we have to
pick and choose our battles,yeah.
Sandy Zamalis (12:54):
So the second thing that you wanted your
viewers and people who followedyou to replace was over
committing and changing it toquality priorities, which I feel
lands in this lane of boundarysetting.
So why don't we kind of sharewith our listeners?
How do you replace overcommitting with that quality
priorities?
Dr. Wendy O'Connor (13:15):
This taps more into aligning with our
values and this is, I think,another swap that I had
mentioned.
But it really comes down tothis values-led living.
It's really about understandingthat, as people pleasers or as
women that just want to say yesand be helpful out of the
kindness of our hearts, thatthere needs to be a limit to
that before we turn into a placeof sacrificing who we are or
(13:39):
what we need in place of thatyes.
So when we realize that we cansay yes forever, but that will
come at a cost, there will be aline where that comes to not
just being super helpful andgenerous with time.
It will turn into nowsomething's gotta give and
something's gotta be sacrificed,and now I feel unhappy or
(14:01):
resentful or frustrated orregret that I made this decision
.
So to make this swap, it'sreally about knowing what your
values are.
So if I were to say and this isa great question that your
listeners can just askthemselves, what are the best
when I think about quality timespent in my life, what are those
(14:21):
activities and who are theywith?
This is a simple way to justcut through a lot of the noise
about like, well, what do I sayyes to and what's quality and
what's not.
Ask yourself first, accordingto who I am, what I value,
meaning what matters most to me,what does quality time look
like?
If I were to completely designmy life to be only quality time
(14:42):
spent doing whatever it was thatI thought was important, what
would those things be?
And, when we know what thoseare, even write those things
down.
Keep a cheat sheet handy.
It can make it much easier toknow what your yeses are and
then what your natural no's are,and to not get those lines
crossed, because we want to behelpful and we have big hearts
(15:02):
and we have maybe the time to doit.
We want to be really discerningwith how our time is spent,
because that's actually howwe're going to decide how we
feel about our lives.
Are we fulfilled or not?
When we're overcommitted, we'rereally not fulfilled.
Dr. Amy Moore (15:19):
So what happens when you're married to someone
who has an expectation that youparticipate in additional
commitments, right?
So by deciding what is aquality priority to you, you
also have to balance what theseexpectations you know of your
spouse might be, or significantother, or whomever you're, you
(15:41):
know, responsible for in yourhome, even your kids, right?
So how do you balance?
Okay, this isn't really mypriority, but this is my loved
one's priority, and so I want tobe supportive.
How do you balance that?
Dr. Wendy O'Connor (15:55):
Yeah, it's a great question.
I think that there's adifference between our
priorities or values, and then ashared value experience as a
family or as a unit and so oneof the ways that we think about
that is to say these are thethings I prioritize and that I
value, and somebody whom I lovedearly may have different values
(16:15):
or priorities, and so how do wehonor each other's values?
How do we honor what each otherwould say is quality time spent
?
This can come down to literallymaking a decision of I want to
honor that value or I'm notinterested and I'm going to go
do my own thing, which you knowthat leads to its own outcome or
it can be a recognition of whenwe look at this is, I think,
(16:37):
why the terminology can bereally helpful for people.
When we look at each other inour relationships and
experiences and kind of thinklike oh, they care about this
and it's so annoying or it'ssuch a burden, but like I care
about this, instead of reallylooking at it like values-based
values feel deeper than just hecares about, she cares about,
(16:58):
and when we come at this from aperspective of this is a true
value for somebody, for my lovedone in this situation, can I,
am I willing to honor that value, oftentimes because there's
such love there?
We are, but it doesn't mean thatand it of course depends on
what we're talking about whenyou say like extra commitments
or obligations.
But it really comes down to ifI'm willing to honor their value
(17:21):
because I love them and this isimportant to me to support what
they love, then that's abeautiful thing.
But they're also within thatumbrella could be situations
that push us over toovercommitted or to sacrificing
ourselves, and in that situationit's like really going to be at
the micro level of like what'sthe thing coming up at the time,
instead of it being like Isupport everything that falls
(17:43):
under my loved one's value andso I'm always just at the beck
and call of whatever they needor want, versus I respect this
value of theirs and I willparticipate in supporting that
because I love them.
But that doesn't mean thatevery single thing that could
come up as an arm of that valueis the thing I need to jump for
and the thing I need tosacrifice my own needs or
(18:04):
desires for.
Dr. Amy Moore (18:08):
Yeah, what's stirring in your head, sandy?
Sandy Zamalis (18:10):
Oh the fan.
I was panicked because Ithought, oh, the fans turned on.
And I really want to hear whatDr O'Connor has to say about
this, because it is so hard withyou know, especially for the
people pleasers and I'm here forall the people pleasers that
are listening to this podcast,because I definitely am a people
pleaser it is really hard tomake that distinction with a
(18:34):
loved one and to prioritize andnot overcommit and not put
yourself last in those qualitypriority kinds of discussions,
because it can be really easy tojust slide out of the way.
So it does take some, I think,work internally to figure out
(18:57):
your own boundaries on that sideof things so that you're not
just always giving your timeaway and giving your priorities
away.
Dr. Amy Moore (19:05):
Well, and especially if you have.
Dr. Wendy O'Connor (19:07):
Oh, go ahead .
Sorry, I was just going to saythat I think, before we can be
comfortable or even experimentsetting boundaries courageously,
it's so important for us to dothe internal work, to even know
what it is that we desire invalue.
So sometimes the louder valuecan be the dominant value, and
so whoever's the loudest abouttheir value in the home could be
the one that just leads.
(19:27):
And so you're like well, Iguess I don't care that much, so
I'll just follow the lead.
And so I guess, if I reallycare, I'll figure it out later.
And that's when, a lot of times,women find themselves waking up
one day going is this really asgood as it gets?
Like this is my life, like Iwork so hard and I try so hard
and I love so hard and I'm, I doall the things and I'm so
agreeable and I want to please,and I want to please and I want
(19:48):
to appease.
But now I'm waking up and I'mlike feeling very disconnected
from my own fulfillment.
What's going on?
It's because we let ourselvesgo on too long, for too long of
an extended period, notconnecting to who we are and
what our values are.
So it's not.
The boundaries are such animportant piece, but they're the
expression of the value.
The expression of the value,and if we don't have connection
(20:11):
to those values, clearly whatthose are, then we have a real
struggle knowing how, when andhow to harness the courage to
actually express the values.
So yeah, that's a really greatpoint.
I'm glad you brought that up.
Dr. Amy Moore (20:24):
All right, so let's move on to the third one
that you posted about, and thatis replacing criticism with
curiosity.
I'm curious about that.
Dr. Wendy O'Connor (20:36):
I love that.
You are Excellent.
So, criticism versus curiosity,this is a really, really fun
one.
I again just coached on thistoday.
These are the themes.
I love my swaps.
It's like an admin calendar.
I'm like what's the next oneyou're going to open?
It's so fun.
So, yes, these swaps are sogood, they're so good, take them
(20:57):
, use them.
They will change your life ifyou do make these swaps 100%.
So criticism I think about asmostly, and do I have a
self-compassion one on there?
Is there another one coming upwith self-compassion?
Yes, what's the contrast of theself-compassion?
Self-doubt?
Okay, okay, thank you.
So with criticism, I think a lotabout if we want to live our
(21:21):
happiest existence, if we wantto live our most fulfilling
lives.
Being overly critical ofourselves or others is going to
distract us from that goal.
It just is.
It's going to be a detour thattakes us on a path of negativity
.
Negativity is the opposite ofthe positivity that we want to
experience more of.
So the idea that every time ourbrain secretes some
(21:44):
self-critical thought, we justhold on to it, we expand it, we
make it louder and broader andwe just hook into it is going to
take us down the spiral.
But if we start with, instead,swapping that spiral of
criticism with curiosity, likehuh, where did I get the idea
that?
Like, why am I thinking thisway about myself?
(22:06):
Where did I get the idea thatI'm a failure or that I'm not
good enough, or I can't, do't,can't have it, or I'm an idiot?
Whatever it is, whatever thatself-criticism is, when we get
curious about it we unlock alevel of understanding that's
going to help us make differentdecisions.
Right, we call thatself-awareness.
When we know why we're being socritical, where that story's
(22:29):
coming from, whose voice itreally is, not really ours,
where that came from originally,it helps us feel more aware of
our processes.
When we're aware of ourprocesses now, it puts us back
in the driver's seat to makedifferent decisions that align
with how we want to feel.
Criticism doesn't lead us tothe joy and fulfillment we want.
So if we can understand throughcuriosity, why this pattern is
(22:51):
happening, where it's comingfrom, it gives us the
opportunity to make a differentdecision in how we talk to
ourselves, respond to things,react to our world and therefore
get back on what I like to callour happiness highway, get back
to that place of pursuingfulfillment and not battling our
inner demons, because it's atotal waste of time.
Dr. Amy Moore (23:13):
That takes some effort, though, right.
Like a lot of times we'reentrenched in it should be this
way, or it is this way, or I amthis way, right, and so to be
able to kind of break that downa little bit and go wait a
minute.
Where did that idea come from?
Where did that belief come from?
(23:33):
That takes effort.
Dr. Wendy O'Connor (23:35):
Listen, we're not here to talk toxic
positivity stuff here.
We're here to talk the realdeal.
So the real deal of happinessis effort.
The real deal of success iseffort.
The real deal of fulfillment iseffort.
We can't fear effort.
We can't fear that.
We're't fear that it will.
We're so willing to put so muchwork into everyone else in our
lives and the idea of effortwithin our own happiness is the
(24:00):
thing that we're going to reject.
Like that has to shift.
That has to be a story thatchanges in women's minds.
It can't be all effort out andno effort in.
What we know is that the moreeffort we put into healing
ourselves, becoming moreself-aware, making these tweaks,
rewiring our mindset, thehappier we're going to be, and
(24:20):
that doesn't just benefit us, itbenefits everyone in our world.
So it's like it's worth theeffort is what I'm trying to say
, but a hundred percent, ofcourse it is.
That's why you hire me as yourcoach.
That's why you hire someone tohelp you move through this
faster, Because when we do thison our own, it's like it can.
It can take a while.
Sandy Zamalis (24:39):
I love that you said this is not a toxic
conversation, because we were,yeah, I yeah, yeah, it was my
big hiccup Cause I didn't knowwhat positive psychology was
before we were going to talk toyou today and I thought I was
like I'm going to ask herbecause part of my biggest pet
peeve in the social media world,or just general pop psychology
(25:01):
world, is like this weirdpositivity of I'm perfect as I
am and there's no room, no needto grow or learn anything new,
and it drives me insane.
So I love that you kind offramed that really well of being
positive and being curious ishow you get and unlock the next
(25:24):
level for yourself.
It's not about just acceptingthings as they are, good or bad.
There's always growth and workto be done.
Life is a journey.
You aren't perfected rightwhere you are.
Dr. Wendy O'Connor (25:36):
Right and there's no perfection.
So it's not like we're going toget anywhere, that the work
Right and it's just a matter of.
I think a lot of women thatappreciate this work are the
ones that really get it.
They just get that.
This is about a life experience, not about a finish line, and I
think the initial season oflife where we start out, maybe
out of college, and we get going, we're like there's a finish
(25:57):
line, finish line, finish lineright, get the relationship, get
the degree, buy the house, havea kid, whatever the finish line
is in your head.
But then inevitably, so many ofus wake up and we're just like,
oh, what now?
Because I did all the things,why didn't it create for me all
the outcome and results that Ithought that they would Create?
Why am I just not feelingcontent Right?
And so that level ofcontentment from for most of us
(26:19):
comes from Putting inintentional effort every single
day to be our happiest, mostfulfilled selves.
And it's not.
Yet there's a lot in socialmedia and it's funny because
someone just commented on arecent Tik TOK of mine being
like oh, toxic positivity.
And I was just like oh, youdon't even know me because you
don't even know where I stand onthis, and I stand very firmly
(26:41):
in.
There's always work to be done,and this isn't about pretending
everything's fine and rainbowsand butterflies.
It's about designing with pento paper, scripting your life
very intentionally anddeliberately.
And that's going to mean it'sgoing to be some frogs to kiss,
there's going to be some stonesto uncover, there's going to be
some work to do, but what I canpromise is that it's worth it.
(27:04):
And I actually have to say itreminds me I had a client who
started with me and this was acouple of years ago and she said
her biggest fear with signingon was what if I'm still not
happy?
Like what if it doesn't work?
And I was thinking, oh, my gosh, you're speaking for so many,
many, many women that don't takethe next step towards
(27:25):
fulfillment because the fear isthat it won't be effective and
that it won't be worth theeffort and so they're not going
to bother.
And I was just like, oh, ifonly you knew what this is
actually going to create for you.
And then she did and she's like, oh, I wish I did this sooner.
And of course you do.
But the answer truly is if youdo work, let's say we could talk
about fitness if we wanted to.
(27:46):
If you put in some work andyou're not seeing the results,
do we just scrap the wholedesire to feel healthy and well
and fit?
No, we figure out the next wayand we pivot and we refine the
practice and we get back up andgo again.
Same thing with our happinessjourney.
We find that we put all thiseffort into this relationship or
this hobby or this career orthis interest and we're hitting
(28:07):
a dead end or it's notfulfilling.
Now's our opportunity to say,okay, so let's shift.
Your decisions are not meant tobe life sentences, so we have
to stop feeling like there's thecommitment to pursuing
happiness.
Is this like daunting, scarything?
It's fun and free and flowy andthat's what it's meant for.
Dr. Amy Moore (28:25):
Yeah, I always say it's not a kidney when
people think that it's apermanent decision to try
something right.
It's not a kidney, Not a kidney.
Sandy Zamalis (28:34):
Well, it's a good segue, I think, into your next
swap, which is because I thinkthat's really coming from
self-doubt, right Like theydon't think they can do it or
make a change, and swapping thatfor self-compassion.
So let's talk about that keyaspect.
Dr. Wendy O'Connor (28:48):
Yeah, self-doubt will take you down.
Right, the energy aroundself-doubt is negative.
It's going to take you down.
It's going to pull your energydown.
Self-compassion is going topull you back up.
So what we know from KristenNeff's work in self-compassion
is that people will think, oh,this sounds fluffy, oh, this
sounds like you're lazy andcomplacent and you just can't
(29:08):
work hard and you're not a highachiever and whatever else.
But really, what we know fromthe work of self-compassion is
that it's actually going to getyou right back on your track so
much faster than pursuing theself-doubt.
When we're stuck in self-doubt,that just means that we are
reinforcing that belief throughour actions.
We feel stuck because we'vecreated a reality around this
belief.
(29:28):
We have a belief of fear of notbeing good enough.
And then we act as if that'strue and our world gets small
and we play small and the lightsget kind of dim and it gets
kind of like not so fun andshiny and exciting and then
we're like see, this is like asgood as it gets Like I can't.
How do I not doubt myself ifthis is what I'm looking at
around me?
(29:49):
But when we actually take amoment where we feel
self-doubtful and we just thinkthings like God, like am I ever
going to get out of my own way?
Or like what is wrong with me?
Or I can't seem to like getforward or get my goals reached,
or whatever.
It is when we lead there withself-compassion and
understanding, much like wewould with our kiddos.
Right, like I think about and Ishare this example like when
(30:12):
our kiddos were starting to walk, when my baby started to walk,
one started to walk much earlier.
I have twins, so the threegirls that were 15 months apart,
there was my first daughter andthen 15 months later there was
two more daughters, and so- Iwas doing the math on that
earlier and I thought maybe Ijust misunderstood her.
Dr. Amy Moore (30:30):
Maybe she meant 15 months, another one, then 15
more months and another one.
Anyway, okay.
Dr. Wendy O'Connor (30:36):
So one twin started to walk much faster than
the other one.
Okay, so we'll use them as anexample.
So when the first twin startedto walk, everyone's so excited
and it's like oh my God, you'rewalking, this is amazing.
Now the other twin, like was,would just like keep falling
Right.
So, like the self doubt wouldjust keep falling right.
So the self-doubt would just.
Let me be the voice ofself-doubt and tell me which one
is going to help her walkfaster.
(30:57):
If I'm just like, oh, you fellagain, you're never going to get
this.
I don't think you have it inyou to walk.
I'm so sorry.
You might as well just stayseated for a while, because this
is your lot in life.
This is not the way we wouldtalk to our babies learning to
walk.
But if I was like oh my God,get back up, you've got this.
This is hard, I totally get it.
This is hard, but you've gotstrength, let's get back up.
(31:18):
Now she's going to walk again.
Right, she's going to walkfaster.
Silly example, but it reallyjust demonstrates when doubt
leads, we shrink no-transcript,get back up and try again.
(31:54):
So it's really literally in theopposite direction.
A lot of times we think thatself-doubt is like, oh well, I
just need like it's almost likethis excuse or self-preservation
to just be like, oh, I can't, Ican't do it, so I'm not that
person, I'm not the one who, I'mnot the person who and you hear
people talk as if it's theiridentity instead of just
(32:15):
honoring that, like there's thisfear of not being enough or
there's doubt about who they are.
And when we lean into that withcompassion and understanding,
all of a sudden there's thisopportunity to bloom and to
shift and to change and to comeout of your box and to come out
of this shell.
And that's, and to change andto come out of your box and to
come out of the shell.
And that's when real changehappens and again, of course, so
fulfilling and worth it.
(32:35):
But, yes, it can feel hard, butthere's no way around the hard.
There's no way around the hardwe have to embrace hard
sometimes.
Sandy Zamalis (32:43):
I think it's important as adults for us to
practice being beginners atthings.
I think that kind of can helpwith this mindset that you're
kind of describing.
Trying new things and justallowing yourself to be a
beginner at something is such ahuge mind shift when you're
trying to try new things or dosomething new.
(33:05):
I started I was telling Amybefore we got on that I started
playing with watercolors andthen when you put it in a fancy
frame, so listeners, if you withwatercolors, and then when you
put it in a fancy frame, solisteners, if you go on YouTube,
you can see if you put it in afancy frame it looks fancy.
But you know it's just giveyourself permission to try
something new so that you canthen celebrate little small wins
(33:25):
and successes.
I think a lot of times you knowwhere that self-doubt comes from
is we expect perfection rightout the gate, right.
We expect to do something newand have it work out amazingly,
instead of I tried something new, boy, that was hard, but look
how far I got, or look what Igot accomplished.
I'm going to try that again.
Dr. Wendy O'Connor (33:45):
Yes, yes, it's funny you say that because
I don't like starting again.
I mean, I like I like startingagain with my like shift in
career and my and that causethat feels like it's still
coming from my wheelhouse.
But I will say I do have thispaint by number downstairs in my
kitchen that I keep looking atand it's almost just like
(34:08):
glaring at me and it's like, oh,you have to do it now.
Looking at and it's almost justlike glaring at me and it's
like, oh, you have to do it now.
I know I do, because this ispart of it.
It's really this idea ofbeginning is challenging.
There's no doubt about it and II always she called this like
the sticky period.
There's like a little sticky,little sticky zone.
So I have clients that recentlywho are talking about being
nervous about, you know, meetingnew friends and going out with
(34:29):
friends and like, is it worthleaving the couch for the fire,
for the TV?
For I don't know if I want thisanymore.
And right before we do thething we're like I don't think I
want that.
That was a bad idea.
How silly.
Who cares about this right?
But it's not actually thealigned way of thinking.
It's not what you truly want.
It's the fear zone.
(34:50):
If we think about the zones ofgrowth, the fear zone is really
uncomfortable.
But when we move through thatand we anchor into what we
actually desire and we start tolike get a little bit
comfortable with the discomfort,now we are rocking and rolling
and we can figure out what welike to do Speaking of that
quality time what we valuespending time on, and then we
can also build some resiliencealong the way, because there's
(35:11):
sticky spots of paint by numberare very intimidating for some
of us, yeah.
Dr. Amy Moore (35:17):
Okay, we need to take a quick break.
Let Sandy read a word from oursponsor, and when we come back
we have two more swaps to gothrough.
Sandy Zamalis (35:28):
Are you concerned about your child's reading or
spelling performance?
Are you worried your child'sreading curriculum isn't
thorough enough?
Well, most learning strugglesaren't the results of poor
curriculum or instruction.
We like to say it's the brain,not the books, because reading
struggles are typically causedby having foundational cognitive
skills that need to bestrengthened, skills like
(35:50):
attention, memory and processingspeed.
Learningrx cognitive skillstraining programs are designed
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Learningrx can help youidentify which skills may be
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In fact, we worked with morethan 125,000 children and adults
(36:13):
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Learningrx would like to helpyou get your child on the path
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Give LearningRx a call at866-BRAIN-01 or visit
learningrxcom and visit our shownotes for some free resources.
Dr. Amy Moore (36:32):
Okay, we're continuing this really fun
conversation with Dr WendyO'Connor about these swaps that
can change how we look at ourlives and how we experience our
lives, and how they help us withsome more bliss.
All right, let's talk aboutoverthinking versus aligned
(36:55):
action, so replacingoverthinking with aligned action
.
Dr. Wendy O'Connor (36:59):
I love this one.
Yeah, that's all you need tosay.
We just need to replaceoverthinking with aligned action
.
It's like if we were to spendless time.
This is the thing, and Iactually created another post
about this recently.
I wish more women knew thatthey don't need to learn another
thing before they act.
They just need to start moving.
It's overthinking that'scausing the destruction.
(37:22):
It's causing the disconnectbetween what they have and what
they want, and we need to getinto action sooner.
We just need to start movingforward faster.
And it doesn't mean in animpulsive way that I don't think
through anything I want.
I just go for everything it'sreally about.
We know we know the thing thatwe want to work on.
We know the thing that we wantto just go for everything it's
really about.
We know.
We know the thing that we wantto work on.
We know the thing that we wantto be better in our lives.
We know the thing that feelslike it's in between us and our
happiest lives.
We know what that thing is.
(37:42):
Typically, we just don't reallylet ourselves own that, because
with ownership comesresponsibility, and with
responsibility comes action, andwith action comes risk.
And now we're back in the fearzone and we're like I don't know
if I want to take the risk.
It feels too scary.
How do I know it's going towork?
You don't.
But that's the reality.
You won't know.
(38:02):
You don't know until you do.
But thinking about it willnever create it.
Thinking about it won't evercreate it.
So, instead of letting yourselfbe an overthinker and get stuck
in this pattern of like, let mejust think it through one more
time.
Or be an overthinker and getstuck in this pattern of like.
Let me just think it throughone more time.
Or let me research this thing,or let me get another
certification, or let me do the.
(38:22):
Instead of going down this likethe rabbit hole of more, cut
the pattern of overthinking andjust simply decide there is a
stepwise process to get fromwhere I am to where I want to be
.
There are steps that I wouldtake to get that.
What are those steps?
And I'm taking one of themtoday.
Whatever that, if there's 10steps, 100 steps, whatever it is
, it's really about choosing tonot spend your life in
(38:46):
contemplation and to spend yourlife in actually living it and
seeing for yourself the truth.
The truth will come from yourexperience.
So if we spend days, weeks,months, years thinking about a
thing that we want and then wego out for it and we realize it
wasn't the thing for us.
We just lost time.
Which is the most precious isour time.
(39:08):
But if we're like I think thissounds so fun or so exciting or
could be so interesting orreally cool or could make me
happy and we act on it, that'sgiving us the shortest gap
between what we think we wantand what we actually create.
And then we'll know I wantedthat, I'm so happy I went for it
, or it wasn't for me.
What's the next move?
It's that simple, but it'ssimple in theory and, of course,
(39:32):
trickier in practice, becausewe get into our thought patterns
and our habits of thinking, andso if your habit is
overthinking, this can feelunnatural.
That's okay.
It actually still is the workcatching yourself in
overthinking, cutting it off andinserting in that moment, even
in aligned action, with what youdesire.
Dr. Amy Moore (39:54):
I love that, I love everything you just said
about that.
We joke in my marriage that myhusband's a thinker and I'm a
doer, because once I've decidedthat I want to do something,
then I'm just going to go makeit happen.
But he's an Enneagram 5, whichis the investigator, and
investigators have to know everydetail about every single thing
(40:16):
before they take the first step, and so it is one of those
sticking points right with us.
I'm like just do it, just do it.
So you know, because I loveyour philosophy right of when
you do the first step and youexperience that success, or
maybe you experience, you know,a space where you just got to
(40:38):
make some adjustment, right,you're activated, right, you're
moving and you're experiencingthe happy hormones that come
along with that movement, and sothen that sort of propels us
forward to take step two.
Dr. Wendy O'Connor (40:52):
That's right .
Sandy Zamalis (40:54):
That's right.
Well, we have time for yourlast one, your last swap, which
was swapping validation fromothers for values-led life.
So let's kind of wrap things upfor our listeners with that
swap.
Dr. Wendy O'Connor (41:12):
Yeah.
So this really brings it allhome.
The way that I live and teachand preach is to live by your
values as much as possible.
Now, there are, of course,going to be moments that we have
little rumble strips on theside of the highway, moments and
we disconnect from those values.
That's normal.
But this is really about.
What I teach is following yourNorth Star, and your North Star
(41:36):
is what your core values are,what your signature strengths
are and what your deepestdesires are.
This is what I teach in myworld.
So part of that being values isreally a huge part of decision
making.
Many women come into my spaceand say I have the hardest time
making a decision, or decisionsare so difficult, or I take
forever to make a decision, butwhen we know our three pieces of
(41:57):
our North Star, decisionsbecome so much easier.
Why does that matter?
Because when we can build, whatthis does, when we align our
life with these three things, isit is going to skyrocket inner
self-trust.
You're going to trust yourselfso much more to be able to make
decisions that you know, mostlikely or more likely than not,
(42:21):
are leading you in the rightdirection of happiness and
fulfillment, and instead, whatmost people do is seek that
reassurance instead of fromwithin themselves, from other
people.
So there was a client that inthe last year has had the most
incredible transformationbecause her decisions would
often be pulled.
(42:42):
She would pull her people inher life, her family, her
friends like do you think Ishould do this?
Does this sound like a goodidea?
How does this sound to you?
And she'd ask everyone.
And then she'd come back and belike oh, I just don't know if
it's for me.
So-and-so said, this so-and-sosaid.
And I was like, oh, this isexactly what it is to be
searching for validation fromoutside of ourselves to feel
good enough or on our right pathinside of ourselves.
(43:04):
You're going through the wrongmethod to get what you want.
What you want is to know thatthis is most likely going to be
the thing for you and the way weknow that is your North Star,
not other people's limitingbeliefs, not other people's
stories and life experience thatthey're going to answer you
from.
Think about what people.
When I was like I think I'mgoing to start shifting away
(43:27):
from clinical psychology and I'mgoing to be a happiness coach,
guess what people thought ofthat.
Right, like.
They were like okay, like areyou sure, is this a good idea?
Like you have these establishedpractices, why would you leave
those or pivot to something sojust uncharted at this point?
And it was like well, becauseI'll figure it out, because
(43:51):
there's a pull, because I desireit, because it aligns for me
with my values and my strengthsand my what my dreams are right
now.
So when we can learn throughdoing to build self-trust,
validation from others fallsaway.
We don't need it anymore.
But the reason why that becomeslike this perpetual loop is
because that's where we placethe value.
(44:13):
We place value.
Value it's on our actual value,but we place value on other
people's opinions over ours,over what we want, and so we
take their word as morelegitimate than our desire.
And when we stop that and weswap letting other people's
decisions, thoughts, beliefs,opinions influence our call, our
(44:35):
life, we get to lean into whatreally makes the difference,
which is our strengths, desiresand values.
Dr. Amy Moore (44:43):
Fantastic.
Dr. Wendy O'Connor (44:44):
That's the difference, and I'm so glad.
I have to say I was justthinking as I was answering that
question.
This is why I can't get thisacross in a social media post.
There's so much to say and herewe are with this little post
that just could be.
No one's going to thinkanything of it because they
don't understand the depth ofeach of these concepts.
So I very much appreciate youbringing them all to life for
(45:05):
your audience, because this iswhere the magic happens.
When you can actuallyunderstand what we're talking
about, boom, it's such abreakthrough for people.
Dr. Amy Moore (45:13):
Well, and now you have an entire episode to
attach to your post, so thatwhen people go oh, let me dig in
, that's correct.
Yeah, wonderful, okay, how canour guests, our listeners, work
with you, find more about you?
Where can they find you?
What do you have going on?
Dr. Wendy O'Connor (45:31):
Yeah, so I'm mostly on Instagram at Dr Wendy
O'Connor, so come say hi,introduce yourself.
I have some incredible programsthat go on throughout the year,
so it always just depends onwhat aligns.
If I can ever help, I'm alwayshonored to, but just definitely
feel free to reach out and askme anything on any social media
platform that you find me on,because I'm on most of them at
this point.
Dr. Amy Moore (45:52):
All right, fantastic.
Dr Wendy O'Connor, thank you somuch for being with us today.
This was a fantasticconversation and we appreciate
you taking time out of your busyschedule to share your wisdom
(46:13):
and excitement for life and forhappiness with us today.
If you liked our show, we wouldlove it if you would leave us a
five-star rating and review onApple Podcasts.
If you'd rather see our faces,you can find us on YouTube.
If you want to learn more aboutcognitive skills and what those
look like in action and ourwork with cognitive training,
you can find Sandy on TikTok, atTheBrainTrainerLady.
We are at the Brainy Moms onInstagram and Facebook, and you
(46:36):
can find us at thebrainymomscom,so don't forget to visit us
there or our show notes for allof the resources that Dr Wendy
talked about that our sponsorhas to offer you, and just to be
able to reach more smart momsand dads like you guys.
That's all the smart stuff wehave for you today, so we're
going to catch you next time.
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