November 4, 2024 • 58 mins
Ever felt overwhelmed by the sheer range of sensory experiences your child navigates daily? On this episode of the Brainy Moms podcast, Dr. Amy and Sandy discuss the world of sensory processing with Dr. Eva Lassey, a doctor of physical therapy and the visionary behind Dr. Sensory. Through her personal and professional journey, Dr. Lassey breaks down the often-confusing landscape of sensory processing disorders, helping us discern between sensory seekers and avoiders. Her insights equip parents and caregivers with the tools needed to support and understand their children’s unique sensory needs, challenging traditional perceptions of neurodiversity and the idea of "normal."
Join us as we explore the impact of sensory processing issues on motor skills development and social interactions in children. Dr. Lassey shares practical strategies for fostering physical development through simple, engaging activities that can easily be incorporated into everyday routines. From bear walks to crab crawls, we talk about the crucial role of movement and play, especially in an age where technology sometimes hinders our children's physical growth. Learn how the right balance of core strength, coordination, and active play can transform a child's confidence and ability to connect with peers.
Finally, we discuss the benefits of sensory tools and fidget toys in managing focus and anxiety, featuring insights from experts like neuroscientist Dr. Christina Ledbetter. Whether it’s weighted blankets or chewable necklaces, these tools offer emotional comfort and can ground the mind, enhancing concentration, and providing a sense of calm. Dr. Lassey emphasizes the importance of trial and error to find the perfect fit for individual sensory needs, illustrating how these aids can create a supportive environment for children and adults alike. Our episode concludes with a heartfelt discussion on gratitude and the ongoing journey of supporting families in navigating sensory challenges.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. Amy (00:02):
Hi smart moms and dads.
Welcome to another episode ofthe Brainy Moms podcast, brought
to you today by LearningRxBrain Training Centers.
I'm Dr Amy Moore, I'm joined bySandy Zimalis, and if you guys
have to leave early, be sure tovisit thebrainymomscom for all
the smart stuff you missed.
Sandy and I are super excitedto bring you a conversation with
our guest today, dr Eva Lassie.
(00:23):
Super excited to bring you aconversation with our guest
today, dr Eva Lassie.
Eva is a doctor of physicaltherapy and the founder of Dr
Sensory, a platform that servesas your go-to place for all
things sensory processing.
With experience in various PTsettings, eva now has a special
focus on helping children,particularly those with sensory
processing difficulties.
We have actually never had anepisode on sensory processing
(00:45):
issues and we have actuallynever had an episode on sensory
processing issues and we've hadrequests for an episode on
sensory processing issues, so weare thrilled to welcome you to
our show today, dr Eva Lassie.
Dr. Eva (00:56):
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm so excited about thisepisode.
We are too.
Sandy (01:02):
We like to start every episode by asking our guests to
share why they chose to focus ontheir specific field.
So let's start there.
What makes you so passionateabout sensory processing issues
as a physical therapist?
Dr. Eva (01:17):
So I feel like this has started way before becoming a
mom or even a physical therapist.
So I grew up in a family of 11children and seeing the chaos
that that brings, but alsoseeing kind of like the
upbringing of everyone, it kindof fueled my passion to go into
physical therapy, and withphysical therapy what I could do
is I could then focus where Iwanted to focus, and that was
(01:40):
children.
So as moms, we all know howchildren can be and sometimes
you meet, like other moms, withother children who are
completely different than yours,and so you're kind of trying to
figure out like, okay, why isthis one so different, or why is
this one doing things this way,or why is this mom saying that
this child is just needing somuch more?
(02:01):
And this kind of fueled mypassion into doing my own
research, and so I started todive so much deeper into sensory
integration and sensoryprocessing disorders and this
even led down a path towards,like autism and ADHD.
There's so much that entailslike a child and what they're
bringing to the table and whothey are as a person and what
(02:22):
they need, that this is where itall started.
And then adding a layer afterphysical therapy, of becoming a
mom and seeing things firsthandthat you didn't expect children
to do.
You're like why is he doingthis?
Why is he jumping off of thecoffee table onto the couch?
What is he doing?
Or they want me to throw themonto the couch really, really
(02:43):
hard, as playfully, obviously.
But you're like why are thesethings happening?
And that, as a medicalprofessional that leans towards
research and leans towardsalways continuing to learn, I
was like okay, this is what Iwant to learn.
This is I want to learn more,and it's not just to help myself
and my parenting journey, butit's also to help.
(03:03):
Like the everyday parent, Iwant to be able to use the
knowledge that I gain and learnto also help other moms, and so
this is something I'm superpassionate about and I'm so
excited to share about.
Dr. Amy (03:15):
All right.
Well, we have so much to talkabout, but let's start with some
basics.
Can you spend just a fewminutes kind of defining what
sensory processing issues are?
What sensory processingdisorder?
How is that different fromsensory integration?
Talk a little bit about justthe basics here.
And then, how would parentsknow if their child was
(03:40):
struggling with some of this?
Dr. Eva (03:42):
Okay.
So to begin with this sensoryprocessing disorder, the
research is still coming out.
This is something that's brandnew if you were to look at the
medical field and time, whereresearch has not been there
before, so I feel like we're onthe forefront.
This is exactly what we shouldbe talking about, because
(04:05):
parents are noticing it more andobviously it might be due to
recent changes in technology,like this is all new, so you'll
notice kids kind of having aneffect from that.
But sensory processing disorderwhen we look at that, what
we're looking at is children whoare different in the way they
process sensory information, butalso like perceive it and then
(04:25):
how they try to seek out whatthey need.
So the differences are a lot ofchildren.
It's obviously a wide spectrum.
It's almost like you need tofind where your child is With
sensory processing.
They're receiving information,their brain is processing what
they're learning and thenthey're coping with that in
(04:46):
different ways.
So you'll see, like childrenhaving outbursts, or you'll see
children seeking a place to hidebecause they need to get away
from all of that information.
So this is where it's soimportant to figure out where on
the levels is your child insensory processing.
So if they're not able toregulate all of that information
coming in, you can help them.
(05:11):
You can help them by figuringout where they are on the level
of whether they're a sensoryseeker or a sensory avoider.
So I can go into a little bitmore detail about each of those.
Okay, yeah, so with sensoryavoiding, what these children?
Typically?
They avoid movement.
So, for example, they're notgoing to like being on that
swing.
They're not going to likespinning around.
They're not going to like beingthrown up into the air, as
(05:33):
parents love to do with theirchildren.
They're not going to like thosebecause they really prefer
those more stable and morepredictable movements.
They don't want the chaos thatthat brings on in their sensory
system.
Right, you also find that theymay be sensitive more to touch.
So, for example, they may findcertain textures that they don't
like.
They'll actually find themsometimes very intolerable.
(05:56):
So, like simple things, evenlike a tag on a shirt or the
texture of a shirt.
Like it'll be complete chaosputting on a sweater, as my
morning went this morning,putting on a sweater onto a
child that they don't like thematerial, they become this whole
new being.
You're like who are you?
But that's just how they'reprocessing it.
And so, with sensory avoiding,they'll also dislike loud noises
(06:19):
.
They're not going to like thatlike walking into a loud grocery
store where it's chaos allaround, there's so many things
happening, or just maybe evenlike Disneyland, like that's too
much for them.
And so finding strategies tohelp those children for example,
it could be very simpleearplugs or even like noise
canceling headphones, somethingthat you can teach them the
(06:40):
strategy they need to wean theirbody back from all of that
sensory input that they'rereceiving.
And then another thing would beavoiding bright lights.
So kids with sensory avoiding,they really don't like those
bright lights, they want dim,lit lighting, and so a strategy
that you can do is avoid bright,flickering things, avoid toys
(07:03):
that have all of that flash onthem, or you can even just have
them wear sunglasses.
A lot of the time this was evenmy son months ago, a few months
ago, where he would put on hissunglasses and come indoors and
everyone was like, oh, he mustbe the cool kid.
I was like, no, your house isjust really bright.
But seeking those strategies tobe like, no, he wants to wear
his sunglasses, that's okay.
But like seeking thosestrategies to be like, no, he
(07:23):
wants to wear sunglasses.
That's okay, it's just toobright in here.
And then you have your sensoryseeking behaviors.
So these children love movement.
I mean they'll be the ones thatmake throw me up.
Throw me up, they'll be likespin me around.
They're going to crave thatsensation of fast and intense,
that just thrill seeking, so tosay.
(07:44):
They love touch, they crave it.
They want that sensory input.
They feel like that.
They're just drawn towards it.
They're drawn towards differentmaterials.
They experiment.
These kids might be the ones inthe dirt playing with their
trucks or just feeling thedifferent things that they want.
They want that input that theyneed more of, if that makes
(08:05):
sense.
Like their levels are justturned down a little bit.
They need a little bit moreLoud noises.
For these kids is that theyprefer it, they like it.
They'll turn up the music.
If they sit with you in thefront seat for a minute to play,
they'll be like, yeah, I lovethis.
Or they'll make very loudnoises when they play.
So these are the moms that arelike, oh my gosh, my son in the
(08:26):
next room.
He's just so loud, I'm so sorry.
Like they're apologizing forthis behavior, where I'm like
that's what they need, that'sokay, like there's things,
strategies that parents can doto be like okay, let's give them
a space where they can be loudand that's okay.
That is what they need.
Vibrant taste, and these kidslove trying new foods.
(09:00):
They're like oh yeah, I'll trythat, like yogurt on my fingers,
love that, spicy foods, lovethat.
They're just seeking brightlights, the bold colors, the
flashing toys.
So if a mom tells you oh, myson is very like, he loves that
kind of stuff, he loves jumping,spinning, he'll love the bright
lights.
So you can cater your toys forthat mom, or the mom can cater
it towards the child in that way.
Dr. Amy (09:20):
Okay.
So I have a ton of thoughts andI kind of there's so much there
, all right.
Okay, so I have a ton ofthoughts and I kind of there's
so much there, all right.
So, first of all, when you weretalking about people who are
sensory avoidant, you describedme to a T.
I mean, like, really, you justread my mail, told my life story
, so it's just fascinating.
But my first question is what Iheard you say was hey, if your
(09:45):
child appears to be avoiding alot of sensory input, here are
some things you can do If yourchild really likes extrasensory
experiences.
Here's what you can do twodifferent ways that children and
adults experience sensory inputand they're not abnormal.
(10:08):
Or are you saying, yes, theseare abnormal when you're on
either extreme, this ispathological, so we have to
accommodate it.
Which are you saying?
Dr. Eva (10:30):
I am not saying that it is not normal.
So, for example, every child isunique, so there is none of any
child that is not quote unquotenormal.
So everybody is just different.
So when I say like this is whatyou are catering towards,
you're not catering towards thediagnosis at all.
You're catering towards yourchild, and so this, for example,
(10:52):
this may describe you, but itdoes not make you any different
than someone who's completely onthe other side of that.
That level of sensory inputthat they receive.
I feel like, as time has come onand technology has come out and
kids are getting so much morein their faith that they're
coping with it in different ways.
For example, screen time, thatcan have a huge impact on
(11:12):
someone.
They could want to avoid it.
So that doesn't make them notnormal, it just means that they
need some way to cope with it.
Does that kind of make sense?
It's not an extreme this orthat.
It's just I prefer this and Iprefer this or I prefer this.
It's more of a preference ofwhat do you like and what do you
not like and what do you needless or more of.
Dr. Amy (11:34):
Okay, I love that, because I am not a fan of the
term neurodivergent, because, asa cognitive psychologist, I
view brains like thumbprints andso, even though structurally
they're very similar, we knowwhere to find each part of the
(11:57):
brain in every single brain.
For the most part, unlessthere's been an injury injury
the connectivity is a little bitdifferent, based on experiences
and based on nature.
So what I'm hearing you say isthat we aren't calling kids and
(12:21):
adults who are sensory avoidantor sensory seeking as
neurodivergent.
You're actually describing itexactly the same way, right?
We all sort of fall somewhereon this spectrum of how we
prefer to process sensory input.
Dr. Eva (12:35):
Exactly.
I feel like that term,neurodivergent has become such a
commonly used word because theydon't know how else to describe
it.
They see it as this odd topic,this odd thing that's just
coming out, and they're notrealizing that.
No, that's actually a way todescribe people who have
different sensations that theyneed to process, and that you're
(12:57):
actually on that too.
You're not like neurodivergent.
It's such a category thatpeople tend to place others in,
and that, to me, is not okay.
I feel like each human has aspace in our community, in our
world, and they just prefer whatthey prefer and they don't
prefer what they don't, but thatdoesn't make them any different
(13:18):
from anyone else.
Sandy (13:20):
That's so funny that you said that, because I have the
same like visceral reaction toneurotypical Like.
I hate that word because itmakes it sound like there's this
like group of people out therethat are normal.
And no, there's always thespectrum.
I agree, amy.
You know our brains are likethumbprints.
You know we are uniquely andwonderfully made, so it's just
(13:43):
fascinating that we've ended upin this weird like what bucket,
what camp are you in?
Dr. Amy (13:48):
I mean, and, Sandy, you've you've seen my
presentations on ADHD, and so Ishow a lot of neuroimaging of an
ADHD brain and I will compareit to brains without ADHD.
So it doesn't.
I don't label it a normal brainor a typical brain or a
(14:10):
neurotypical brain.
The labels on my slides sayADHD, not ADHD.
Right, Because there is no suchthing as normal or typical.
I mean, we all have somevariation of processing and so I
think to categorize someone asnormal is odd.
Dr. Eva (14:36):
You know, what blows my mind is, if you look on social
media, these individuals whohave felt almost outcasted in
ways as they were growing up,they've almost adopted this as a
pride title, and that breaks myheart, because this is their
way of saying I'm different andthis is why, whereas instead, no
(14:59):
, you're normal.
What do you like and what doyou not like, and what does your
body need and what does yourbrain need, and how do you
process things?
And like how are you as aperson, and not like I don't
feel normal and so I must not benormal.
Like that breaks my heart forhumans because they diminish
themselves and then they don'tfeel they have a space to talk,
(15:20):
or it's just it breaks my heart,it really does.
Dr. Amy (15:26):
Yeah, I get it Okay.
So do you see sensoryprocessing issues more in kids
and adults that also have adiagnosis of something else,
like ADHD or autism, or do yousee sensory processing struggles
in kids who don't have a dualdiagnosis?
Dr. Eva (15:53):
So this is an interesting question because
kids who already have adiagnosis, they usually find
themselves on this spectrum ofsensory avoiding versus sensory
seeking.
Most of the time they landright there like oh, that's me,
or that's me.
And personally, having ADHDmyself, I know I'm like, okay, I
(16:18):
land here too.
But I would not say that everyperson with a sensory processing
difference, where there'ssomewhere on that spectrum, I
would not say that all of themhave a diagnosis or would be
matched with like a DSM likediagnosis, like they wouldn't be
matched with that and so theydon't have that, but they could
still have a layer of sensoryavoiding for sensory seeking and
(16:43):
need those sensory integrationstrategies to kind of help them
out.
So it's yes, if you're autisticor you do have ADHD, more than
likely you probably have, you'resomewhere on this scale,
whereas the opposite can also betrue where you're on this scale
but you don't classify as oneof the diagnoses that a medical
health professional can provideyou to help almost validate your
(17:07):
feelings, if that kind of makessense.
Dr. Amy (17:10):
Yeah, absolutely.
Sandy (17:12):
How does sensory processing issues affect motor
skills and motor skilldevelopment for kids?
Dr. Eva (17:19):
So this is a passion of mine because as a physical
therapist I was like, what canyou do with your body?
I was like, what can you likeintegrate as a parent?
And so with motor skills, a lotof the time you'll see sensory
processing effects, not justlike you think, like okay, your
sensory system, you think yourhands and what you eat and what
(17:41):
you touch, but it also affectsyour coordination.
So you'll notice these kidshave more clumsiness In classes,
they'll tend to trip more,they'll tend to fall more,
they'll tend to have moredifficulty with writing.
So you'll notice them likemanifest itself in that
coordination because theirbody's not integrating the
information as well as someoneelse might.
(18:02):
And so these are the kids thatthere's so many things that you
can do to develop thatcoordination and balance.
Another way would be they tendto have delayed reaction times.
So with these slower processeslike, for example, the sensory
input that they're receiving, ifthey're not processing it in
time, they can't really reactthe same as someone else who
(18:24):
wants to kick them a soccer ballor someone else who wants to
play tetherball with them or afour square, and so they don't
have those reaction times thatthey would typically.
So working on reaction times.
Coordination, balance, strengthand endurance are major things.
So with the reduced strength,with like, over time you'll
(18:44):
notice that kids tend to avoidactivities and so they're not
building on reduced strength.
Over time you'll notice thatkids tend to avoid activities
and so they're not building onthat strength.
So parents can really reallyhelp in this way, in that, for
example, if their son ordaughter they tend to have
difficulties, for example,keeping their balance or running
or playing with friends, theycan incorporate strategies at
home for running or playing withfriends.
They can incorporate strategiesat home Like, for example,
(19:05):
implement a balance beam at home.
That's very doable.
Put a piece of tape on thefloor, lay it down and create a
game.
Be like I want you to walkacross this without falling out
of that line, like that's very,very simple, but allowing your
child to say, no, I can do this.
And they can get better andbetter and better With motor
(19:25):
planning, what you'll notice isthat when they're thinking about
what they want to do, but theycan't do it exactly, so let's
say someone like a practicalexample we're working on four
square here, so they know theyneed to hit the ball back, they
know they need to pass it backto that square but they can't.
You'll notice that clumsinesscomes out where they'll hit the
ball back.
They know they need to pass itback to that square but they
(19:46):
can't.
You'll notice like thatclumsiness comes out where
they'll hit the ball and they'lljust bounce out or they'll know
what they want to do and thenthat frustration builds up.
You'll notice these kids justhave so much frustration I can't
do it, I can't play, they won'tlet me play, I'm not very good.
You'll notice that self-talk isjust so negative for these kids
but that inconsistencies, wheresometimes they get it and
(20:07):
sometimes they don't, thatreally plays such a huge part on
these kids because they don'thave that self-confidence and
confidence is something thatthey need.
They need to develop confidencein order to thrive in our
society today.
That is something that parentscan help build on and teach on
and have little milestones.
That overall help with not justtheir motor skills but that
carries on to relationships withpeers and that carries on to
(20:31):
like building basic friendshipsand participating in activities
and even being able to do wellin like classes and being able
to sit still and being able tostand in a line and not feel
like they're dizzy or out ofline somewhere.
Does that kind of make sense?
Dr. Amy (20:48):
Yeah, I'm so glad that you brought up motor planning.
I actually have been diagnosedwith a motor planning delay and
I'm unable to mimic movementsand poses.
For like, for example, if I'mhaving a photo made and the
(21:08):
photographer is telling me howto sit or how to tilt my head or
how to put my shoulder forward,like I can't figure out what
he's saying.
Like I will tell thephotographer you have to
actually pose me.
Like, move my shoulders whereyou want them, right.
Or like I can't follow anexercise video, right?
(21:29):
Like it takes me so long tofigure out.
Okay, I see the person movingin a certain way.
How do I make my body mimicthat?
Right, I have to watch it againand again.
I have to stop the tape.
Practice it, you know, and soit's.
I have never actually heardanyone else talk about it ever
(21:51):
in the world, and so I can'teven describe to you the
emotions that I'm feeling rightnow.
Like I feel so seen.
Dr. Eva (22:00):
No, it's like validation, knowing like this a
thing, someone can explain itlike that is, this is this, is
like such a passion now, becauseI realize how much education,
like someone who has learned andit's continuing to learn, can
also like provide just to thebasic, anyone like anyone and
you can feel like, yeah, I gotthis, like I can, I know what to
(22:20):
do now.
Dr. Amy (22:22):
Yeah yeah, it was actually an eye doctor that
diacrased me.
Dr. Eva (22:28):
No, kidding yeah.
Dr. Amy (22:31):
That's awesome, like a behavioral optometrist who was
trying to figure out why I keptrunning into door frames.
Dr. Eva (22:38):
Yeah.
Yeah, so anyway it might havebeen yeah, that's so cool.
It honestly might just be likethat coordination that's slower,
like processing physically towhere, like, for example, if you
were even an adult, but ifyou're gauging it towards a
child who still has, like,they're building their brain so
much faster than a typical adult.
There's so many things that youcan do to practice that and
(23:02):
help speed those processes up,because neuroplasticity in your
brain, the way that it can growand heal and change after
anything, is so beautiful and sousing that, using that to a
benefit of someone who's stillupbringing like that would have
been so cool.
Imagine if you would have beenon the dance team, like,
(23:22):
completely, yeah, that would beRight.
Dr. Amy (23:25):
I was in my forties before somebody put a label on
it.
So, yeah, fascinating, likewhat?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So all right.
So you've got kids who eitherhave they're struggling with
motor planning or they are, youknow, constantly in motion, and
(23:46):
so what I'm hearing is that'sthe same kind of approach that
you're you were taking with thesensory avoiding and sensory
seeking behaviors, right, youlook where, where's your child
on this spectrum of either waytoo much movement or I'm really
struggling to move in thatcertain way at all, and then you
find ways to nurture that.
Dr. Eva (24:10):
Yes, so you want to challenge.
Just enough is what I alwayssay.
You don't want to make it toodifficult to where you're like,
oh, they need help with this.
Let's say you notice a problemor you notice a challenge that
the child has.
You don't want to be like, well, you have to do this and this
will fix it.
Like, if it's not possible forthe child or it is just too
(24:32):
difficult for them, you mighthurt that strategy or you might
hurt that child's almost likeconfidence in that and then
they'll almost like regress in away that well, no, I can't do
that.
So the challenge is that whenyou figure out what your child
needs and what they need topractice and get better at,
(24:56):
those are the things that youwant to provide.
Just enough challenge.
You want them to meet that goal.
That is your challenge as aparent is you want them to meet
that goal but you want them toneed to try.
You don't need them to just doit and be done Like.
You need them to actually havethat challenge, like for you.
For example, if I was yourtherapist in the day, I would
(25:19):
have given you like I want youto practice this dance move and
this yoga poses or whatever thatmight be.
Or I want you to complete thischoreographed therapy, like walk
on a beam, walk through this,go through this tunnel, and that
way, as a child, you'd be likeI got this, I can do something a
little bit more challenging,and the effects on your brain
(25:41):
for that, like motor planning,that neuroplasticity that's
happening continuously and yourbody's learning.
It is completely connected.
So your brain attached to everysingle muscle and nerve.
Sandy (25:52):
You're speeding that process up attached to it every
single muscle and nerve.
You're speeding that process up.
As you're talking, I'm thinkingthrough all of those kid games
that we used to play.
I don't even know if they stillplay them I'm sure they do or
they're different now.
But things like red light,green light or you know freeze
tag or you know musical chairs,like all of those things that
have both movement andinhibitory control kind of
(26:13):
included in them, and I lovethat you really kind of
highlighted that doablechallenge concept.
But from like a movementperspective, let's just kind of
live there for a second.
Let's think of like what aresome specific techniques and
exercises that parents can helpkind of do or support their
children's sensory integration.
(26:34):
What would you recommend?
Dr. Eva (26:37):
So, with this, what I would say is what you want to do
is create a sensory diet.
This is what you'll hear thisterm a lot, but it's not what
you think it is.
So a sensory diet is it's avery catered program to each
child, catered program to eachchild.
(26:58):
So what you're looking for isyou want the right activities
that challenge the right aspectsof what you're trying to
complete, and this is what theycrave and what they need
throughout the day.
So, for example, if your childloves jumping on the trampoline
okay, or loves jumping off ofthe couch, a practical strategy
would be instead, purchase alittle trampoline in the house.
Or a practical strategy wouldbe, instead, purchase a little
trampoline in the house or alittle safe zone and put a bar
(27:18):
on it so it's safe, and havethem keep doing it.
Have them almost like, get whatthey need out of that, whereas,
on the contrary, if you havesomeone who is like, well, no, I
don't need that, you'recatering your sensory diet to
what they need, that you'recreating a sensory corner,
you're creating a calmenvironment, you're very much so
(27:38):
giving them what they need, butyou're teaching them.
This is what I do to get there.
For example, if a child's likeoverwhelmed with something and
they can't get there, they justthey don't know what to do.
They're so overwhelmed.
That is what you do.
Is you just teach them no, thisis what you do.
Like you can go here and whatdo you like about this?
(27:59):
What do you not like?
Practice all of it.
Do you like this, do you likethat?
And they'll usually tell you no, I don't like that, it's too
colorful or no, I don't likethat.
It.
It makes me dizzy.
So simple things like that.
Other things that you can do.
As a physical therapist, I seefrom like early, early child to
(28:20):
adult, and the biggest thing forevery single one is core
stability and balance andcoordination.
These are the big things for me.
So when you look at corestrength, there's a lot of
diagnoses that can affect yourcore strength and so these kids
can't participate.
They don't feel like they canparticipate because they don't
(28:42):
have the strength to sit up.
They don't have the strength todo what you're asking them to
do.
So simple at-home activitieswith bringing that core to where
you need it.
For example, make it simple Doa bear walk, do crab crawls
You've seen those where you putyour hands behind.
Do a timed plank.
(29:02):
That is very practical.
Have the siblings, if they havethem, chime in, be like I want
to see who can last the longestin this plank and get prizes for
first, second, third and fourthand fifth place.
Like nobody loses.
But the point is that you'reencouraging playfulness while
you are improving their corestrength.
And then, for balance, like Imentioned before, do something
(29:26):
simple.
Put a piece of tape on theground, have them walk on that
tape, or there's gymnasticthings that you can buy that are
very, very simple.
You can set that out for themand that way they can practice
and they can have fun with it.
But that's really building thatbalance and coordination.
So there's so many games.
Dr. Amy (29:45):
Oh good, sorry, no, go ahead.
I'm so sorry, it's okay.
No, I'm just like, I'm justremembering, you know, my
elementary school PE teacher,remembering, you know my
elementary school PE teacher.
Right, like you just described,elementary school PE activities
to build core strength andbalance that make total sense
(30:05):
now.
And so do you think and thisjust popped into my brain, but
you know we see less and lesstime spent on extracurriculars
and PE time in our schools nowthan we used to.
Do you think that that can be acontributor to why you're
seeing deficits in core strengthand balance in childhood?
Dr. Eva (30:29):
100%.
This is something that and Ifeel like it's only going to get
worse this is the sad part isit's going to get worse because
of where we're going.
As humans, we're relying moreon technology.
Where, how much time do youspend sitting?
Think about it compared to 30,40 years ago.
How much more time is a childspent sitting on the ground
(30:54):
playing a video game?
Or when they go outside,they're not playing those high
energy games that they used to.
If you remember, I remember as achild my parents would say
don't come home till thestreetlights are on.
I mean thinking back now.
I would never do that with mychildren.
I'd be like, oh no, I betterknow where you are.
Now, I would never do that withmy children.
I'd be like, oh no, I betterknow where you are.
But thinking back to where,like they came home sweaty.
(31:17):
They came home completely likecovered in dirt and we all just
we had fun.
We had fun outdoors.
We were jumping and playing andriding bikes and doing all of
these activities that thinkabout now like safety.
Safety is a major concern.
We all know how unsafe it canbe out there.
We've seen the horror storiesand so we don't allow our child
(31:40):
to just go and play, so creatingsafe spaces for that, like
where can my child go to ridetheir bike but still be safe and
I can still keep an eye on them, things like that.
But that is a major, majordownfall of where I feel, like
society and technology, and fear, like now, what we see on TV,
what we see on like Netflix andHulu, and we're like, okay, what
(32:02):
are we watching?
You're never going outside,like you're not going from my
eyesight, like that.
That, to me, is just we need tofind ways to go around that.
Like, how can we as a societyfind a way to allow our children
to explore, have fun, playoutside, work on their balance,
(32:23):
coordination, theirproprioceptive system and
vestibular system, learn whatit's like to fall, to get up
again, to practice again andagain?
How can we as a society helpthat?
Otherwise, we're going to havethese children that don't know,
or that it makes them very, verynauseous to spend because
they've never done it.
(32:44):
They don't know what that'slike To me.
I'm like that's a passion ofmine.
I'm like I'm going to see whatI can do.
I'm going to help withresources.
I was like I'm going to trybecause children are so
important, if you really thinkabout it.
They're our future.
They're the future of our world.
Where do you want to see yourworld?
That is where you're bringingyour child to.
(33:06):
Where do you want them to?
Do you want them to be able totolerate the world around them?
Sandy (33:18):
Or do you want them to hide in a corner in their house
because they can't handle whatthe world is outside Like?
That's a big deal.
I think that's why there's beensuch a rise I think even since
COVID just in like play-baseddaycares and early elementary
schools, like you know, the risein things like Montessori and
Waldorf, where there's just alot more experiential learning
and just allowing the kids toreally figure out their bodies
(33:38):
and also learn in the same kindof ways.
But I love that you talkedabout all of those different
ways to actually be proactive.
When my kids were little, I'dtake them to these really pretty
fancy parks, but the park theyloved the best was literally
just a bunch of rocks, that'sall it was.
(34:02):
But we would all meet therewith a bunch of other families
and they would play hide theflag or capture the flag,
whatever the name of that gamewas, and then they would just
climb rocks for hours and, likewith any of the parks that I
took them, that's the one whereI literally have to, you know,
(34:22):
threaten them to get back to thecar because we had to leave.
But just finding those avenuesand play spaces is a challenge
as well, so you almost have tocreate them anymore.
Don't you agree to like createplaces for play for kids so that
they can really tap into all ofthose things that you described
?
Dr. Eva (34:40):
You do, you really do.
You have to.
You either find them, whichthey're becoming more
challenging to find becausethey're either.
The crazy part is you'll seeparents like, oh, my child fell
and now it's park, you knowthat's the park's fault, whereas
like, no, your child islearning, let them fall, like
that's okay.
And so you're seeing a lot oflike where safety has become
(35:02):
such an issue and not just likepeople are so fearful.
We've come to an age, especiallyafter COVID, we're so afraid of
experiencing outside, we're soafraid of being near other
people, and this is where, like,social anxiety comes in and
you're getting kids that arelike hiding away and not doing
things.
Like, yes, we need to createthose spaces, but honestly, we
(35:24):
can.
We, as moms, know playdates area thing we're like, hey, what
do you have at your house?
Or hey, what do you have atyour house?
Like they have a massive gym orthey have a really cool
outdoors with lots of rocks.
So you kind of find that spaceas a mom, but being very
strategic in what your childneeds and find places that they
need to go for that, I thinkthat's going to be the key.
Dr. Amy (35:46):
So we have a lot of homeschool parents who listen to
our show, and so I think thatthis is a super important
message when you're thinkingabout planning your physical
education activities that it'simportant to not just look at
this as a sports or aerobicactivity perspective, but this
(36:09):
whole idea of building corestrength, building balance,
working on proprioception, andhow that is important for
multiple life skills right, notjust hey, are you able to throw
a ball and catch it?
Dr. Eva (36:26):
Yeah, and I think what people don't realize is that
children are a lot like adultsin the sense of they like doing
tasks.
I guess this is more is itmales who love to do tasks, like
side by side, and then theycreate friends.
So they create friends throughactivities, doing something
together, and so it's not justthe specific activity you're
(36:50):
working on which you are.
You're finding ways toencourage those activities and
build that strength.
This also helps to make friends.
If you think about it, a lot ofkids with diagnoses or who feel
they're on this level of sensoryseeking for sensory avoiding.
They tend to avoid other kids.
If that makes sense, you tendto go towards where you're
(37:14):
comfortable, and a lot of thetime it's either your child is
too active or, on the other side, your child is too quiet and
the kids don't want to play withthem.
And so you get these two mixesof heartbreak because other kids
don't want to play with yourkids, Whereas as a parent, if
you are creating activities,they're like no, this is awesome
(37:34):
.
Where you can do an activityvery specific towards a goal.
Those kids are the ones thathave the friends Like.
I had so much fun jumping offthe monkey bars with them, or I
had so much fun swinging on theswings with them.
Can we do that again, Like thatis what you want.
Sandy (37:51):
Can we do that again, Like that is what you want and
I'm hearing you basically kindof endorse.
I mean, maybe not explicitlybut, you know, try lots of
different things, like it's justa kajillion athletic things you
can try.
You can try swimming, but ifit's too much you can try
running, you can try tennis, youcan try karate.
(38:12):
You can try so many differentthings that'll tap into all of
these skills that you've beenaddressing.
But find the one that hits theright.
You know sensory load or youknow challenge for them.
That's motivation to them tocontinue to grow and get
stronger 100%.
Dr. Eva (38:31):
We actually on our Instagram, dr Sensory.
That is like one of my lastposts that I posted and it was
about how kids who feel or havea diagnosis like ADHD.
What activities can they do tohelp promote not just friends
but also foster to theircreative outlet?
For example, martial arts bigone, you can do baseball or
(38:52):
soccer.
Do they love running?
Put them in soccer Like that'sawesome.
Let them run Like if they needto hit something.
Put them in baseball Like.
There's so many activities thatyou can do to cater
specifically to your child andthat's the cool part is they
make friends, you get some ofthat energy out, they come home
and they can actually listen toyou and you can be a parent
instead of constantly managingthese meltdowns after these
(39:16):
experiences that they have.
Sandy (39:23):
So I want to make sure we address this before we run out
of time, but I want you, Ava, tomake the case for fidgets for
any adult listening to thispodcast that either doesn't see
the purpose or hates them.
What is the case for lettingyour child have a fidget if they
need it?
Dr. Amy (39:36):
And actually I'm going to let you think about that, eva
, while Sandy reads a word fromour sponsor, and then, when we
come back, we'll talk aboutfidgets and all of the cool toys
that might help with some ofthis when we come back.
Sandy (39:53):
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(40:37):
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Dr. Amy (40:54):
All right, we are continuing our conversation with
Dr Eva Lassie, who is known asDr Sensory for her expertise in
sensory issues.
So, eva, talk to us aboutsensory toys and fidgets, and
who are they most beneficial for?
What are the benefits?
How can we choose the righttypes?
Are there any that you wouldsay?
(41:16):
Just pass that one on by.
Dr. Eva (41:21):
Okay.
So this topic has become moreand more important, especially
as people realize that they needsomething.
I think before people like,maybe thought that they might
need something, but they almostpin themselves like, no, I don't
need anything, I'm fine, andthey end up being like the child
in class who can't payattention, or they end up being
(41:43):
the one that has more difficultylearning or sitting still
things like that where the focusis affected.
And so now, now that there hascome this whole new thing of
resources that you could use,this is huge.
So what you want to focus on isyou want to engage the senses
(42:04):
first.
So you're looking at what yousee, what you feel, what you
sometimes what you taste, orwhether you need oral
stimulation.
You're looking at what thepreference is specific to the
person.
Are you wanting to promotefocus or are you trying to
relieve stress?
What is it you want to do?
And so what you really need todo is understand the personal
(42:28):
needs of either yourself, ifyou're shopping for yourself, or
for the child if you'reshopping for a child, what their
preferences are and,specifically, their sensory
triggers.
What do they not like?
What do they want to stay awayfrom?
Those are the things that youdon't want to get this child.
You want this to promote calmfocus and to allow them to find
(42:51):
something where they can groundthemselves.
So, for example, fidgetspinners, fidget cubes those you
remember, remember like rubik'scubes were in for a while and
then they just like left, likewhere did they go?
Um, so fidget spinners whatthose are?
It promotes focus.
It reduces anxiety, especiallythat repetition that you see in
(43:11):
toys like that.
So that could be perfect foryour average child who's like
needs to do something with theirhands.
If you see them, they're alwayslike playing with their hands,
playing with their shirts, likethey're just like constantly
fidgeting with something.
Those are perfect.
But it's also perfect for youraverage adult, especially
someone who can't focus.
As someone with ADHD, you know,like I can't focus.
(43:33):
I need something.
I mean, it used to be where youpinch your own fingers just to
get something to focus on, andso now that there are like
little spinners and things likethat, that is what you want to
use, like that is awesome, tryit out.
It's also trial and error.
You have to understand thattrial and error is very, very
important in this.
If a little fidget toy is notyour cup of tea and you're
(43:54):
looking for a more calming thing, try a weighted blanket, try a
lap mat.
Those are now becoming a lotmore popular, especially for
those kids that need pressure.
They need that proprioceptiveinput.
They need like that deep calm.
These are your kids who lovehugs.
They love like that deeppressure, just calming.
(44:14):
I don't even know how else todescribe it.
They just need that pressure.
With that.
It provides comfort, itprovides relaxation that they
need.
So if your child needs that orif you need that, that's very
simple.
A weighted lap mat would beperfect for you.
There's also, which is acontroversial thing, I think, is
(44:34):
the chewable necklaces that areout there.
So the reason this iscontroversial is because, so, my
sister is a dentist and she'salways like well, like, for
example, even like pacifiers.
She's like, well, that ruins,like this and that, and I'm like
okay, but if someone is seeingthat oral stimulation, they're
going to find it somewhere.
Why not put it into acontrolled thing, somewhere
(44:56):
where they know they can go to?
They're not.
You'll notice these kids thatjust need that feedback, like
they might be your biter indaycare.
That might be like someone whotends to want to like bite
bookshelves or chew on booksLike this is something my
daughter even did.
I was like how did that bookget all bit up?
The corner's all gone, like shewould be perfect.
Like, especially if you're atlike teething phase as well, you
(45:19):
, you can use something verysimple.
There's very um, like smallerthings for adults who are
capable of handling the smalleritems.
This is something that you very, very careful on, because
little kids cannot have thosesmall items that you would trust
an older, older, um person with.
So that has to be very, verystrategic.
Dr. Amy (45:40):
But we can also Actually, let me speak to that.
So my oldest child inelementary school they didn't
he's like in his 20s, so theydidn't have those necklaces at
the time but he would bite ahole through the collar of his
shirt during the school day, orthe sleeve of his, the hem of
(46:03):
his sleeve, right.
So all these shirts had theseholes in the collars and the
bottom of the sleeves and wrist.
So if I had had one of thosesensory necklaces at the time
for him, how amazing and howmany shirts would we have saved?
Right, he obviously needed thatneural stimulation and that
would have been a perfect way todo that in a way that didn't
(46:23):
destroy his wardrobe too.
Dr. Eva (46:26):
What an expensive right .
Dr. Amy (46:29):
Those necklaces are $10 .
Dr. Eva (46:33):
The shirts are so perfect yeah, oh gosh.
I'm so sorry as a mom, I wouldhave learned.
So perfect.
Yeah, oh gosh, I'm so sorry asa mom, I would have learned how
to sew.
I feel like, nope, you'rewearing it again, oh gosh.
But yes, the necklaces areperfect and it can honestly be
anything.
I've seen ones where you canput in the freezer and they
become cold and so they'regetting that temperature
(46:54):
gradient with it of what theyprefer.
So that's really cool too.
So, or creating it with it ofwhat they prefer, so that's
really cool too.
So you can look at differentoptions for that.
And then the last few categoriesthat I would say are like
visual and then tactile, like,is it a child that needs to see
something as a calming thing?
If you really focus, like, orif you notice kids now see some
(47:14):
of these blurry images comingthrough their screens all the
time, or very bright lights thatthey're coming through.
Some of the shows that researchhas shown has caused honestly
is on its way to probablyincreasing the ADHD rate is how,
like the speed of the show, ifyou notice the screens change
(47:34):
every one to one and a halfseconds, so that in kids that
continuous like boom, boom, boom, boom.
You're continuously seeing thatchange.
Like that affects them too.
So something that has a slowchange like, for example, even
the lava lamps from back in theday I love those, I think I'm
going to go and get one but thatit's slow.
It's therapeutic, it slowstheir system.
(47:55):
Some of those kids need thatbecause after, if they watch a
show like that, you'll noticethat their dynamic changes,
their energy changes.
They're very overstimulated.
You'll notice those meltdownsstart to happen a lot faster and
they almost become addicted toit.
Like this is where that reallychanges who they are, whereas if
(48:16):
you can focus that energy onlike something slower, something
a toy, that's very much likeyou have to sit with this for a
minute and you have to enjoy itit almost detoxes them from that
, which is inevitable in today'sage.
Honestly, there's screens inschools now where they use their
iPads continuously, so you justdon't know.
But finding something groundingfor them is just so, so awesome
(48:39):
and as a parent, you havecontrol of that.
That's the cool part.
Like a fish tank yes, what agreat way to bring like life
into your home, but also haveyour.
That also allows kids to like,know responsibility, like
they're learning to feed thatanimal, the animal, the fish.
They're learning, like, what itis to take care of something
(49:02):
and then watch it in slow motion.
Yes, 100%.
Oh, I love that reference.
I'm going to use that, okay, soyeah.
Sandy (49:09):
Amy, maybe you can speak to the mechanism of that a
little bit, because I think thatcan be confusing to parents as
to how in the brain does it helpyou focus if you are clicking
or doing something else?
I often like with cognitivetraining you'll find that
sometimes the student actuallydoes better if you have them
doing a mental activity on topof the thing that you're asking
(49:31):
them to do.
Doing it alone was much harderthan actually loading that up
and pushing them through to beable to do the task at hand.
For example, you know having tocount while also putting a
puzzle together.
All of a sudden it sort ofcomes together because they're
having to do that dividedattention task.
Is there a mechanism for that?
(49:52):
As to why being able to isolateyour focus onto a fidget,
something that you can squeezeor touch, can help the brain
prioritize other things?
Dr. Amy (50:06):
Well, so Dr Christina Ledbetter, who's a clinical
neuroscientist, says that whenwe use a fidget toy, it actually
grounds the misfiringneurotransmitters toy.
It actually grounds themisfiring neurotransmitters.
And so you know, have we putsomeone in a functional MRI
machine and given them a fidgettoy and seen that happen?
(50:29):
I'm not sure.
So I think that's a theoreticalyou know or just a hypothesis
as to what's happening, but italso we know, in the ADHD brain.
Adhd brains can't rack andstack priority right.
Everything is important.
And so when you are saying,okay, do this with one hand,
(50:51):
while then focusing on another,what you've done is you've taken
away all of the other stimuli.
You've said, okay, there are 15things that you could
potentially be focused on rightnow, and we've narrowed it down
to two the fidget toy in yourhand and the math problem that
(51:11):
you have to solve.
And so sometimes, because Ihave an ADHD brain also,
sometimes we need that narroweddown for us.
I don't know, eva, do you haveanother explanation?
Dr. Eva (51:27):
I think that you have as a human.
You need something that'scomfort for you.
So we all seek comfort in somewhich way, whatever way that is,
especially in uncomfortablesituations.
So, if you really think aboutit, if you're out and about and
you have social anxiety and youdon't like being out with
someone, something that's ofcomfort to you sometimes that's
(51:48):
even a person, Like if younotice, if you're out and about
in public and you don't likethat, but you have your friend
with you or your spouse with youthat relieves so much.
Like you can tolerate what'saround you a lot better.
Sometimes weaning that down tonot being a person so you can
actually, you know, thrive onyour own.
Like weaning that down to anobject or something that you
(52:11):
have in.
Maybe it's super discreet,where no one even knows it.
You don't have to pull out abag of items Like I love that,
but you can just have your thing.
It's your thing, so find it andfocus on that, while then being
able to provide space forwhatever you're learning or
whatever you're doing else, ifthat makes sense.
Dr. Amy (52:31):
Yeah, I actually love that explanation because there
is an emotional component tosensory processing issues, right
.
And so if we are experiencingany sort of stress and anxiety,
right, that is throwing us intoa fight or flight status.
Being able to be mindful aboutthe thing that we're holding
(52:57):
right, like we're being fullypresent with what this feels
like, what this looks like, whatthis sounds like, what this
might be tasting like, whenwe're able to ground ourselves
in a sensory experience that canpull us out of that sympathetic
nervous system response, sothat then we are able to focus
on the task that we need tofocus as well.
(53:19):
So I think that that was animportant point too, that that
comfort thing can pull us out offight or flight.
Dr. Eva (53:28):
And I feel like a lot of people will notice like their
child just automatically pullsit out, like if they have it and
they keep using it, it almostbecomes like an automatic
response.
They know to go there, buttheir tolerance for everything
around them is so much betterbecause they've learned that
they're just grounded.
It becomes a new baseline ofthem with something and
obviously there's conversationsabout like, well, what happens
(53:49):
if they don't have it?
Obviously that's always aconcern, but you're teaching
them to have strategies.
You're teaching them like thisis you can always find something
new, that's okay.
Like cater to where you're at.
It could wean down to,eventually, a ring that you have
, or maybe like something onyour finger, like it can be
anything.
But teaching them thosestrategies to then be able to
(54:10):
thrive around them, like that'sbeautiful.
Dr. Amy (54:13):
Yeah, and I think that's important too.
I'm glad you pointed that out,because we all know what happens
to the two-year-old who leavestheir stuffed animal at
childcare and then can't go tosleep without it that night.
Right?
And so when we give our kidsoptions and strategies, hey,
(54:34):
when you're feeling dysregulatedor when you're feeling
overstimulated or you need someadditional stimulation, here are
three or four different sensorytoys that you could pick from.
Or, by the way, here's abreathing exercise or a
grounding exercise that you cando if you don't have one of your
sensory toys.
So giving them lots ofdifferent, or at least a few
(54:56):
different, options to groundthemselves, I think is important
.
Dr. Eva (55:03):
And everybody needs that.
Everybody, no matter where youare, no matter who you are, even
as you get older.
We all need that.
We all need to know that we'rein a safe space, even with
ourselves.
So that's wonderful.
Dr. Amy (55:16):
All right, we are out of time and need to wrap this up
.
Eva, is there a way that ourlisteners can know more from you
, connect with you?
How can they find out moreabout your work?
Dr. Eva (55:30):
Thank you for asking.
I am so passionate about this.
I'm actually excited to broadenthe resources that just the
everyday parent can have but notjust parent, but experts and
anyone who's looking forinformation, and so our
Instagram, dr Sensory, we focuson, like if you were to provide
any kind of topic that you wantmore information, we do the
(55:51):
research for you and we'll postyou like practical strategies.
It's very simple.
What I love is like it's verychild focused, but then it's
also very like diagnosis focused, for it's very simple.
What I love is like it's verychild focused, but then it's
also very like diagnosis focusedfor those with very specific
needs, and so that is what welove to do.
We have built up our website,but our goal is this is our goal
for you insiders on this isthat the software is almost up
(56:15):
and running for those childrenwho you need more for.
You need an occupationaltherapist, you need a speech
therapist and you're havingdifficulties getting an
appointment.
That's our goal is to providethat for you.
We want for you to be theone-stop shop of hey, come look
here.
We found a speech therapist foryou.
We found an occupationaltherapist for you.
You're not alone in yourparenting journey.
(56:35):
There's so many resources outthere.
It just takes some worksometimes and knowing your child
, obviously, but we all lovethat.
So thank you so much.
Dr. Amy (56:45):
I love that.
What a great resource.
And you're at drsensorycom Also.
You have lots of great articleson some of the topics that we
talked about today and some thatwe probably didn't get to talk
about today, so it's a fantasticplatform for sure.
Sandy (57:00):
Dr Nitalasa, thank you, thank you, guys, so much.
Dr. Amy (57:02):
Oh, thank you for being with us today.
This was a great conversationand one that was long overdue.
Yeah, all right, listeners.
Thank you.
Dr. Eva (57:11):
Oh, go ahead.
I was just going to say thankyou so much for being on the
forefront of this Like thank youfor being willing to show
parents that there is an answer,like that is such a wonderful
thing and I think you both aredoing so amazing in that.
Dr. Amy (57:25):
Thank you All right listeners, thanks for being with
us today.
If you like us, please followus on social media at the Brainy
Moms.
If you like our show, we wouldlove it if you would leave us a
five-star rating and review onApple Podcasts so that we can
reach more smart parents likeyou.
If you would rather see ourfaces, you can subscribe to our
YouTube channel at the BrainyMoms and for some great demos on
(57:49):
cognitive skills and learning,you can find Sandy on TikTok at
the Brain Trainer Lady.
That is all the smart stuffthat we have for you today, so
we're going to catch you nexttime.
Hi smart moms and dads.
Welcome to another episode ofthe Brainy Moms podcast, brought
to you today by LearningRxBrain Training Centers.
I'm Dr Amy Moore, I'm joined bySandy Zimalis, and if you guys
have to leave early, be sure tovisit thebrainymomscom for all
the smart stuff you missed.
Sandy and I are super excitedto bring you a conversation with
our guest today, dr Eva Lassie.
(00:23):
Super excited to bring you aconversation with our guest
today, dr Eva Lassie.
Eva is a doctor of physicaltherapy and the founder of Dr
Sensory, a platform that servesas your go-to place for all
things sensory processing.
With experience in various PTsettings, eva now has a special
focus on helping children,particularly those with sensory
processing difficulties.
We have actually never had anepisode on sensory processing
(00:45):
issues and we have actuallynever had an episode on sensory
processing issues and we've hadrequests for an episode on
sensory processing issues, so weare thrilled to welcome you to
our show today, dr Eva Lassie.
Dr. Eva (00:56):
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm so excited about thisepisode.
We are too.
Sandy (01:02):
We like to start every episode by asking our guests to
share why they chose to focus ontheir specific field.
So let's start there.
What makes you so passionateabout sensory processing issues
as a physical therapist?
Dr. Eva (01:17):
So I feel like this has started way before becoming a
mom or even a physical therapist.
So I grew up in a family of 11children and seeing the chaos
that that brings, but alsoseeing kind of like the
upbringing of everyone, it kindof fueled my passion to go into
physical therapy, and withphysical therapy what I could do
is I could then focus where Iwanted to focus, and that was
(01:40):
children.
So as moms, we all know howchildren can be and sometimes
you meet, like other moms, withother children who are
completely different than yours,and so you're kind of trying to
figure out like, okay, why isthis one so different, or why is
this one doing things this way,or why is this mom saying that
this child is just needing somuch more?
(02:01):
And this kind of fueled mypassion into doing my own
research, and so I started todive so much deeper into sensory
integration and sensoryprocessing disorders and this
even led down a path towards,like autism and ADHD.
There's so much that entailslike a child and what they're
bringing to the table and whothey are as a person and what
(02:22):
they need, that this is where itall started.
And then adding a layer afterphysical therapy, of becoming a
mom and seeing things firsthandthat you didn't expect children
to do.
You're like why is he doingthis?
Why is he jumping off of thecoffee table onto the couch?
What is he doing?
Or they want me to throw themonto the couch really, really
(02:43):
hard, as playfully, obviously.
But you're like why are thesethings happening?
And that, as a medicalprofessional that leans towards
research and leans towardsalways continuing to learn, I
was like okay, this is what Iwant to learn.
This is I want to learn more,and it's not just to help myself
and my parenting journey, butit's also to help.
(03:03):
Like the everyday parent, Iwant to be able to use the
knowledge that I gain and learnto also help other moms, and so
this is something I'm superpassionate about and I'm so
excited to share about.
Dr. Amy (03:15):
All right.
Well, we have so much to talkabout, but let's start with some
basics.
Can you spend just a fewminutes kind of defining what
sensory processing issues are?
What sensory processingdisorder?
How is that different fromsensory integration?
Talk a little bit about justthe basics here.
And then, how would parentsknow if their child was
(03:40):
struggling with some of this?
Dr. Eva (03:42):
Okay.
So to begin with this sensoryprocessing disorder, the
research is still coming out.
This is something that's brandnew if you were to look at the
medical field and time, whereresearch has not been there
before, so I feel like we're onthe forefront.
This is exactly what we shouldbe talking about, because
(04:05):
parents are noticing it more andobviously it might be due to
recent changes in technology,like this is all new, so you'll
notice kids kind of having aneffect from that.
But sensory processing disorderwhen we look at that, what
we're looking at is children whoare different in the way they
process sensory information, butalso like perceive it and then
(04:25):
how they try to seek out whatthey need.
So the differences are a lot ofchildren.
It's obviously a wide spectrum.
It's almost like you need tofind where your child is With
sensory processing.
They're receiving information,their brain is processing what
they're learning and thenthey're coping with that in
(04:46):
different ways.
So you'll see, like childrenhaving outbursts, or you'll see
children seeking a place to hidebecause they need to get away
from all of that information.
So this is where it's soimportant to figure out where on
the levels is your child insensory processing.
So if they're not able toregulate all of that information
coming in, you can help them.
(05:11):
You can help them by figuringout where they are on the level
of whether they're a sensoryseeker or a sensory avoider.
So I can go into a little bitmore detail about each of those.
Okay, yeah, so with sensoryavoiding, what these children?
Typically?
They avoid movement.
So, for example, they're notgoing to like being on that
swing.
They're not going to likespinning around.
They're not going to like beingthrown up into the air, as
(05:33):
parents love to do with theirchildren.
They're not going to like thosebecause they really prefer
those more stable and morepredictable movements.
They don't want the chaos thatthat brings on in their sensory
system.
Right, you also find that theymay be sensitive more to touch.
So, for example, they may findcertain textures that they don't
like.
They'll actually find themsometimes very intolerable.
(05:56):
So, like simple things, evenlike a tag on a shirt or the
texture of a shirt.
Like it'll be complete chaosputting on a sweater, as my
morning went this morning,putting on a sweater onto a
child that they don't like thematerial, they become this whole
new being.
You're like who are you?
But that's just how they'reprocessing it.
And so, with sensory avoiding,they'll also dislike loud noises
(06:19):
.
They're not going to like thatlike walking into a loud grocery
store where it's chaos allaround, there's so many things
happening, or just maybe evenlike Disneyland, like that's too
much for them.
And so finding strategies tohelp those children for example,
it could be very simpleearplugs or even like noise
canceling headphones, somethingthat you can teach them the
(06:40):
strategy they need to wean theirbody back from all of that
sensory input that they'rereceiving.
And then another thing would beavoiding bright lights.
So kids with sensory avoiding,they really don't like those
bright lights, they want dim,lit lighting, and so a strategy
that you can do is avoid bright,flickering things, avoid toys
(07:03):
that have all of that flash onthem, or you can even just have
them wear sunglasses.
A lot of the time this was evenmy son months ago, a few months
ago, where he would put on hissunglasses and come indoors and
everyone was like, oh, he mustbe the cool kid.
I was like, no, your house isjust really bright.
But seeking those strategies tobe like, no, he wants to wear
his sunglasses, that's okay.
But like seeking thosestrategies to be like, no, he
(07:23):
wants to wear sunglasses.
That's okay, it's just toobright in here.
And then you have your sensoryseeking behaviors.
So these children love movement.
I mean they'll be the ones thatmake throw me up.
Throw me up, they'll be likespin me around.
They're going to crave thatsensation of fast and intense,
that just thrill seeking, so tosay.
(07:44):
They love touch, they crave it.
They want that sensory input.
They feel like that.
They're just drawn towards it.
They're drawn towards differentmaterials.
They experiment.
These kids might be the ones inthe dirt playing with their
trucks or just feeling thedifferent things that they want.
They want that input that theyneed more of, if that makes
(08:05):
sense.
Like their levels are justturned down a little bit.
They need a little bit moreLoud noises.
For these kids is that theyprefer it, they like it.
They'll turn up the music.
If they sit with you in thefront seat for a minute to play,
they'll be like, yeah, I lovethis.
Or they'll make very loudnoises when they play.
So these are the moms that arelike, oh my gosh, my son in the
(08:26):
next room.
He's just so loud, I'm so sorry.
Like they're apologizing forthis behavior, where I'm like
that's what they need, that'sokay, like there's things,
strategies that parents can doto be like okay, let's give them
a space where they can be loudand that's okay.
That is what they need.
Vibrant taste, and these kidslove trying new foods.
(09:00):
They're like oh yeah, I'll trythat, like yogurt on my fingers,
love that, spicy foods, lovethat.
They're just seeking brightlights, the bold colors, the
flashing toys.
So if a mom tells you oh, myson is very like, he loves that
kind of stuff, he loves jumping,spinning, he'll love the bright
lights.
So you can cater your toys forthat mom, or the mom can cater
it towards the child in that way.
Dr. Amy (09:20):
Okay.
So I have a ton of thoughts andI kind of there's so much there
, all right.
Okay, so I have a ton ofthoughts and I kind of there's
so much there, all right.
So, first of all, when you weretalking about people who are
sensory avoidant, you describedme to a T.
I mean, like, really, you justread my mail, told my life story
, so it's just fascinating.
But my first question is what Iheard you say was hey, if your
(09:45):
child appears to be avoiding alot of sensory input, here are
some things you can do If yourchild really likes extrasensory
experiences.
Here's what you can do twodifferent ways that children and
adults experience sensory inputand they're not abnormal.
(10:08):
Or are you saying, yes, theseare abnormal when you're on
either extreme, this ispathological, so we have to
accommodate it.
Which are you saying?
Dr. Eva (10:30):
I am not saying that it is not normal.
So, for example, every child isunique, so there is none of any
child that is not quote unquotenormal.
So everybody is just different.
So when I say like this is whatyou are catering towards,
you're not catering towards thediagnosis at all.
You're catering towards yourchild, and so this, for example,
(10:52):
this may describe you, but itdoes not make you any different
than someone who's completely onthe other side of that.
That level of sensory inputthat they receive.
I feel like, as time has come onand technology has come out and
kids are getting so much morein their faith that they're
coping with it in different ways.
For example, screen time, thatcan have a huge impact on
(11:12):
someone.
They could want to avoid it.
So that doesn't make them notnormal, it just means that they
need some way to cope with it.
Does that kind of make sense?
It's not an extreme this orthat.
It's just I prefer this and Iprefer this or I prefer this.
It's more of a preference ofwhat do you like and what do you
not like and what do you needless or more of.
Dr. Amy (11:34):
Okay, I love that, because I am not a fan of the
term neurodivergent, because, asa cognitive psychologist, I
view brains like thumbprints andso, even though structurally
they're very similar, we knowwhere to find each part of the
(11:57):
brain in every single brain.
For the most part, unlessthere's been an injury injury
the connectivity is a little bitdifferent, based on experiences
and based on nature.
So what I'm hearing you say isthat we aren't calling kids and
(12:21):
adults who are sensory avoidantor sensory seeking as
neurodivergent.
You're actually describing itexactly the same way, right?
We all sort of fall somewhereon this spectrum of how we
prefer to process sensory input.
Dr. Eva (12:35):
Exactly.
I feel like that term,neurodivergent has become such a
commonly used word because theydon't know how else to describe
it.
They see it as this odd topic,this odd thing that's just
coming out, and they're notrealizing that.
No, that's actually a way todescribe people who have
different sensations that theyneed to process, and that you're
(12:57):
actually on that too.
You're not like neurodivergent.
It's such a category thatpeople tend to place others in,
and that, to me, is not okay.
I feel like each human has aspace in our community, in our
world, and they just prefer whatthey prefer and they don't
prefer what they don't, but thatdoesn't make them any different
(13:18):
from anyone else.
Sandy (13:20):
That's so funny that you said that, because I have the
same like visceral reaction toneurotypical Like.
I hate that word because itmakes it sound like there's this
like group of people out therethat are normal.
And no, there's always thespectrum.
I agree, amy.
You know our brains are likethumbprints.
You know we are uniquely andwonderfully made, so it's just
(13:43):
fascinating that we've ended upin this weird like what bucket,
what camp are you in?
Dr. Amy (13:48):
I mean, and, Sandy, you've you've seen my
presentations on ADHD, and so Ishow a lot of neuroimaging of an
ADHD brain and I will compareit to brains without ADHD.
So it doesn't.
I don't label it a normal brainor a typical brain or a
(14:10):
neurotypical brain.
The labels on my slides sayADHD, not ADHD.
Right, Because there is no suchthing as normal or typical.
I mean, we all have somevariation of processing and so I
think to categorize someone asnormal is odd.
Dr. Eva (14:36):
You know, what blows my mind is, if you look on social
media, these individuals whohave felt almost outcasted in
ways as they were growing up,they've almost adopted this as a
pride title, and that breaks myheart, because this is their
way of saying I'm different andthis is why, whereas instead, no
(14:59):
, you're normal.
What do you like and what doyou not like, and what does your
body need and what does yourbrain need, and how do you
process things?
And like how are you as aperson, and not like I don't
feel normal and so I must not benormal.
Like that breaks my heart forhumans because they diminish
themselves and then they don'tfeel they have a space to talk,
(15:20):
or it's just it breaks my heart,it really does.
Dr. Amy (15:26):
Yeah, I get it Okay.
So do you see sensoryprocessing issues more in kids
and adults that also have adiagnosis of something else,
like ADHD or autism, or do yousee sensory processing struggles
in kids who don't have a dualdiagnosis?
Dr. Eva (15:53):
So this is an interesting question because
kids who already have adiagnosis, they usually find
themselves on this spectrum ofsensory avoiding versus sensory
seeking.
Most of the time they landright there like oh, that's me,
or that's me.
And personally, having ADHDmyself, I know I'm like, okay, I
(16:18):
land here too.
But I would not say that everyperson with a sensory processing
difference, where there'ssomewhere on that spectrum, I
would not say that all of themhave a diagnosis or would be
matched with like a DSM likediagnosis, like they wouldn't be
matched with that and so theydon't have that, but they could
still have a layer of sensoryavoiding for sensory seeking and
(16:43):
need those sensory integrationstrategies to kind of help them
out.
So it's yes, if you're autisticor you do have ADHD, more than
likely you probably have, you'resomewhere on this scale,
whereas the opposite can also betrue where you're on this scale
but you don't classify as oneof the diagnoses that a medical
health professional can provideyou to help almost validate your
(17:07):
feelings, if that kind of makessense.
Dr. Amy (17:10):
Yeah, absolutely.
Sandy (17:12):
How does sensory processing issues affect motor
skills and motor skilldevelopment for kids?
Dr. Eva (17:19):
So this is a passion of mine because as a physical
therapist I was like, what canyou do with your body?
I was like, what can you likeintegrate as a parent?
And so with motor skills, a lotof the time you'll see sensory
processing effects, not justlike you think, like okay, your
sensory system, you think yourhands and what you eat and what
(17:41):
you touch, but it also affectsyour coordination.
So you'll notice these kidshave more clumsiness In classes,
they'll tend to trip more,they'll tend to fall more,
they'll tend to have moredifficulty with writing.
So you'll notice them likemanifest itself in that
coordination because theirbody's not integrating the
information as well as someoneelse might.
(18:02):
And so these are the kids thatthere's so many things that you
can do to develop thatcoordination and balance.
Another way would be they tendto have delayed reaction times.
So with these slower processeslike, for example, the sensory
input that they're receiving, ifthey're not processing it in
time, they can't really reactthe same as someone else who
(18:24):
wants to kick them a soccer ballor someone else who wants to
play tetherball with them or afour square, and so they don't
have those reaction times thatthey would typically.
So working on reaction times.
Coordination, balance, strengthand endurance are major things.
So with the reduced strength,with like, over time you'll
(18:44):
notice that kids tend to avoidactivities and so they're not
building on reduced strength.
Over time you'll notice thatkids tend to avoid activities
and so they're not building onthat strength.
So parents can really reallyhelp in this way, in that, for
example, if their son ordaughter they tend to have
difficulties, for example,keeping their balance or running
or playing with friends, theycan incorporate strategies at
home for running or playing withfriends.
They can incorporate strategiesat home Like, for example,
(19:05):
implement a balance beam at home.
That's very doable.
Put a piece of tape on thefloor, lay it down and create a
game.
Be like I want you to walkacross this without falling out
of that line, like that's very,very simple, but allowing your
child to say, no, I can do this.
And they can get better andbetter and better With motor
(19:25):
planning, what you'll notice isthat when they're thinking about
what they want to do, but theycan't do it exactly, so let's
say someone like a practicalexample we're working on four
square here, so they know theyneed to hit the ball back, they
know they need to pass it backto that square but they can't.
You'll notice that clumsinesscomes out where they'll hit the
ball back.
They know they need to pass itback to that square but they
(19:46):
can't.
You'll notice like thatclumsiness comes out where
they'll hit the ball and they'lljust bounce out or they'll know
what they want to do and thenthat frustration builds up.
You'll notice these kids justhave so much frustration I can't
do it, I can't play, they won'tlet me play, I'm not very good.
You'll notice that self-talk isjust so negative for these kids
but that inconsistencies, wheresometimes they get it and
(20:07):
sometimes they don't, thatreally plays such a huge part on
these kids because they don'thave that self-confidence and
confidence is something thatthey need.
They need to develop confidencein order to thrive in our
society today.
That is something that parentscan help build on and teach on
and have little milestones.
That overall help with not justtheir motor skills but that
carries on to relationships withpeers and that carries on to
(20:31):
like building basic friendshipsand participating in activities
and even being able to do wellin like classes and being able
to sit still and being able tostand in a line and not feel
like they're dizzy or out ofline somewhere.
Does that kind of make sense?
Dr. Amy (20:48):
Yeah, I'm so glad that you brought up motor planning.
I actually have been diagnosedwith a motor planning delay and
I'm unable to mimic movementsand poses.
For like, for example, if I'mhaving a photo made and the
(21:08):
photographer is telling me howto sit or how to tilt my head or
how to put my shoulder forward,like I can't figure out what
he's saying.
Like I will tell thephotographer you have to
actually pose me.
Like, move my shoulders whereyou want them, right.
Or like I can't follow anexercise video, right?
(21:29):
Like it takes me so long tofigure out.
Okay, I see the person movingin a certain way.
How do I make my body mimicthat?
Right, I have to watch it againand again.
I have to stop the tape.
Practice it, you know, and soit's.
I have never actually heardanyone else talk about it ever
(21:51):
in the world, and so I can'teven describe to you the
emotions that I'm feeling rightnow.
Like I feel so seen.
Dr. Eva (22:00):
No, it's like validation, knowing like this a
thing, someone can explain itlike that is, this is this, is
like such a passion now, becauseI realize how much education,
like someone who has learned andit's continuing to learn, can
also like provide just to thebasic, anyone like anyone and
you can feel like, yeah, I gotthis, like I can, I know what to
(22:20):
do now.
Dr. Amy (22:22):
Yeah yeah, it was actually an eye doctor that
diacrased me.
Dr. Eva (22:28):
No, kidding yeah.
Dr. Amy (22:31):
That's awesome, like a behavioral optometrist who was
trying to figure out why I keptrunning into door frames.
Dr. Eva (22:38):
Yeah.
Yeah, so anyway it might havebeen yeah, that's so cool.
It honestly might just be likethat coordination that's slower,
like processing physically towhere, like, for example, if you
were even an adult, but ifyou're gauging it towards a
child who still has, like,they're building their brain so
much faster than a typical adult.
There's so many things that youcan do to practice that and
(23:02):
help speed those processes up,because neuroplasticity in your
brain, the way that it can growand heal and change after
anything, is so beautiful and sousing that, using that to a
benefit of someone who's stillupbringing like that would have
been so cool.
Imagine if you would have beenon the dance team, like,
(23:22):
completely, yeah, that would beRight.
Dr. Amy (23:25):
I was in my forties before somebody put a label on
it.
So, yeah, fascinating, likewhat?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So all right.
So you've got kids who eitherhave they're struggling with
motor planning or they are, youknow, constantly in motion, and
(23:46):
so what I'm hearing is that'sthe same kind of approach that
you're you were taking with thesensory avoiding and sensory
seeking behaviors, right, youlook where, where's your child
on this spectrum of either waytoo much movement or I'm really
struggling to move in thatcertain way at all, and then you
find ways to nurture that.
Dr. Eva (24:10):
Yes, so you want to challenge.
Just enough is what I alwayssay.
You don't want to make it toodifficult to where you're like,
oh, they need help with this.
Let's say you notice a problemor you notice a challenge that
the child has.
You don't want to be like, well, you have to do this and this
will fix it.
Like, if it's not possible forthe child or it is just too
(24:32):
difficult for them, you mighthurt that strategy or you might
hurt that child's almost likeconfidence in that and then
they'll almost like regress in away that well, no, I can't do
that.
So the challenge is that whenyou figure out what your child
needs and what they need topractice and get better at,
(24:56):
those are the things that youwant to provide.
Just enough challenge.
You want them to meet that goal.
That is your challenge as aparent is you want them to meet
that goal but you want them toneed to try.
You don't need them to just doit and be done Like.
You need them to actually havethat challenge, like for you.
For example, if I was yourtherapist in the day, I would
(25:19):
have given you like I want youto practice this dance move and
this yoga poses or whatever thatmight be.
Or I want you to complete thischoreographed therapy, like walk
on a beam, walk through this,go through this tunnel, and that
way, as a child, you'd be likeI got this, I can do something a
little bit more challenging,and the effects on your brain
(25:41):
for that, like motor planning,that neuroplasticity that's
happening continuously and yourbody's learning.
It is completely connected.
So your brain attached to everysingle muscle and nerve.
Sandy (25:52):
You're speeding that process up attached to it every
single muscle and nerve.
You're speeding that process up.
As you're talking, I'm thinkingthrough all of those kid games
that we used to play.
I don't even know if they stillplay them I'm sure they do or
they're different now.
But things like red light,green light or you know freeze
tag or you know musical chairs,like all of those things that
have both movement andinhibitory control kind of
(26:13):
included in them, and I lovethat you really kind of
highlighted that doablechallenge concept.
But from like a movementperspective, let's just kind of
live there for a second.
Let's think of like what aresome specific techniques and
exercises that parents can helpkind of do or support their
children's sensory integration.
(26:34):
What would you recommend?
Dr. Eva (26:37):
So, with this, what I would say is what you want to do
is create a sensory diet.
This is what you'll hear thisterm a lot, but it's not what
you think it is.
So a sensory diet is it's avery catered program to each
child, catered program to eachchild.
(26:58):
So what you're looking for isyou want the right activities
that challenge the right aspectsof what you're trying to
complete, and this is what theycrave and what they need
throughout the day.
So, for example, if your childloves jumping on the trampoline
okay, or loves jumping off ofthe couch, a practical strategy
would be instead, purchase alittle trampoline in the house.
Or a practical strategy wouldbe, instead, purchase a little
trampoline in the house or alittle safe zone and put a bar
(27:18):
on it so it's safe, and havethem keep doing it.
Have them almost like, get whatthey need out of that, whereas,
on the contrary, if you havesomeone who is like, well, no, I
don't need that, you'recatering your sensory diet to
what they need, that you'recreating a sensory corner,
you're creating a calmenvironment, you're very much so
(27:38):
giving them what they need, butyou're teaching them.
This is what I do to get there.
For example, if a child's likeoverwhelmed with something and
they can't get there, they justthey don't know what to do.
They're so overwhelmed.
That is what you do.
Is you just teach them no, thisis what you do.
Like you can go here and whatdo you like about this?
(27:59):
What do you not like?
Practice all of it.
Do you like this, do you likethat?
And they'll usually tell you no, I don't like that, it's too
colorful or no, I don't likethat.
It.
It makes me dizzy.
So simple things like that.
Other things that you can do.
As a physical therapist, I seefrom like early, early child to
(28:20):
adult, and the biggest thing forevery single one is core
stability and balance andcoordination.
These are the big things for me.
So when you look at corestrength, there's a lot of
diagnoses that can affect yourcore strength and so these kids
can't participate.
They don't feel like they canparticipate because they don't
(28:42):
have the strength to sit up.
They don't have the strength todo what you're asking them to
do.
So simple at-home activitieswith bringing that core to where
you need it.
For example, make it simple Doa bear walk, do crab crawls
You've seen those where you putyour hands behind.
Do a timed plank.
(29:02):
That is very practical.
Have the siblings, if they havethem, chime in, be like I want
to see who can last the longestin this plank and get prizes for
first, second, third and fourthand fifth place.
Like nobody loses.
But the point is that you'reencouraging playfulness while
you are improving their corestrength.
And then, for balance, like Imentioned before, do something
(29:26):
simple.
Put a piece of tape on theground, have them walk on that
tape, or there's gymnasticthings that you can buy that are
very, very simple.
You can set that out for themand that way they can practice
and they can have fun with it.
But that's really building thatbalance and coordination.
So there's so many games.
Dr. Amy (29:45):
Oh good, sorry, no, go ahead.
I'm so sorry, it's okay.
No, I'm just like, I'm justremembering, you know, my
elementary school PE teacher,remembering, you know my
elementary school PE teacher.
Right, like you just described,elementary school PE activities
to build core strength andbalance that make total sense
(30:05):
now.
And so do you think and thisjust popped into my brain, but
you know we see less and lesstime spent on extracurriculars
and PE time in our schools nowthan we used to.
Do you think that that can be acontributor to why you're
seeing deficits in core strengthand balance in childhood?
Dr. Eva (30:29):
100%.
This is something that and Ifeel like it's only going to get
worse this is the sad part isit's going to get worse because
of where we're going.
As humans, we're relying moreon technology.
Where, how much time do youspend sitting?
Think about it compared to 30,40 years ago.
How much more time is a childspent sitting on the ground
(30:54):
playing a video game?
Or when they go outside,they're not playing those high
energy games that they used to.
If you remember, I remember as achild my parents would say
don't come home till thestreetlights are on.
I mean thinking back now.
I would never do that with mychildren.
I'd be like, oh no, I betterknow where you are.
Now, I would never do that withmy children.
I'd be like, oh no, I betterknow where you are.
But thinking back to where,like they came home sweaty.
(31:17):
They came home completely likecovered in dirt and we all just
we had fun.
We had fun outdoors.
We were jumping and playing andriding bikes and doing all of
these activities that thinkabout now like safety.
Safety is a major concern.
We all know how unsafe it canbe out there.
We've seen the horror storiesand so we don't allow our child
(31:40):
to just go and play, so creatingsafe spaces for that, like
where can my child go to ridetheir bike but still be safe and
I can still keep an eye on them, things like that.
But that is a major, majordownfall of where I feel, like
society and technology, and fear, like now, what we see on TV,
what we see on like Netflix andHulu, and we're like, okay, what
(32:02):
are we watching?
You're never going outside,like you're not going from my
eyesight, like that.
That, to me, is just we need tofind ways to go around that.
Like, how can we as a societyfind a way to allow our children
to explore, have fun, playoutside, work on their balance,
(32:23):
coordination, theirproprioceptive system and
vestibular system, learn whatit's like to fall, to get up
again, to practice again andagain?
How can we as a society helpthat?
Otherwise, we're going to havethese children that don't know,
or that it makes them very, verynauseous to spend because
they've never done it.
(32:44):
They don't know what that'slike To me.
I'm like that's a passion ofmine.
I'm like I'm going to see whatI can do.
I'm going to help withresources.
I was like I'm going to trybecause children are so
important, if you really thinkabout it.
They're our future.
They're the future of our world.
Where do you want to see yourworld?
That is where you're bringingyour child to.
(33:06):
Where do you want them to?
Do you want them to be able totolerate the world around them?
Sandy (33:18):
Or do you want them to hide in a corner in their house
because they can't handle whatthe world is outside Like?
That's a big deal.
I think that's why there's beensuch a rise I think even since
COVID just in like play-baseddaycares and early elementary
schools, like you know, the risein things like Montessori and
Waldorf, where there's just alot more experiential learning
and just allowing the kids toreally figure out their bodies
(33:38):
and also learn in the same kindof ways.
But I love that you talkedabout all of those different
ways to actually be proactive.
When my kids were little, I'dtake them to these really pretty
fancy parks, but the park theyloved the best was literally
just a bunch of rocks, that'sall it was.
(34:02):
But we would all meet therewith a bunch of other families
and they would play hide theflag or capture the flag,
whatever the name of that gamewas, and then they would just
climb rocks for hours and, likewith any of the parks that I
took them, that's the one whereI literally have to, you know,
(34:22):
threaten them to get back to thecar because we had to leave.
But just finding those avenuesand play spaces is a challenge
as well, so you almost have tocreate them anymore.
Don't you agree to like createplaces for play for kids so that
they can really tap into all ofthose things that you described
?
Dr. Eva (34:40):
You do, you really do.
You have to.
You either find them, whichthey're becoming more
challenging to find becausethey're either.
The crazy part is you'll seeparents like, oh, my child fell
and now it's park, you knowthat's the park's fault, whereas
like, no, your child islearning, let them fall, like
that's okay.
And so you're seeing a lot oflike where safety has become
(35:02):
such an issue and not just likepeople are so fearful.
We've come to an age, especiallyafter COVID, we're so afraid of
experiencing outside, we're soafraid of being near other
people, and this is where, like,social anxiety comes in and
you're getting kids that arelike hiding away and not doing
things.
Like, yes, we need to createthose spaces, but honestly, we
(35:24):
can.
We, as moms, know playdates area thing we're like, hey, what
do you have at your house?
Or hey, what do you have atyour house?
Like they have a massive gym orthey have a really cool
outdoors with lots of rocks.
So you kind of find that spaceas a mom, but being very
strategic in what your childneeds and find places that they
need to go for that, I thinkthat's going to be the key.
Dr. Amy (35:46):
So we have a lot of homeschool parents who listen to
our show, and so I think thatthis is a super important
message when you're thinkingabout planning your physical
education activities that it'simportant to not just look at
this as a sports or aerobicactivity perspective, but this
(36:09):
whole idea of building corestrength, building balance,
working on proprioception, andhow that is important for
multiple life skills right, notjust hey, are you able to throw
a ball and catch it?
Dr. Eva (36:26):
Yeah, and I think what people don't realize is that
children are a lot like adultsin the sense of they like doing
tasks.
I guess this is more is itmales who love to do tasks, like
side by side, and then theycreate friends.
So they create friends throughactivities, doing something
together, and so it's not justthe specific activity you're
(36:50):
working on which you are.
You're finding ways toencourage those activities and
build that strength.
This also helps to make friends.
If you think about it, a lot ofkids with diagnoses or who feel
they're on this level of sensoryseeking for sensory avoiding.
They tend to avoid other kids.
If that makes sense, you tendto go towards where you're
(37:14):
comfortable, and a lot of thetime it's either your child is
too active or, on the other side, your child is too quiet and
the kids don't want to play withthem.
And so you get these two mixesof heartbreak because other kids
don't want to play with yourkids, Whereas as a parent, if
you are creating activities,they're like no, this is awesome
(37:34):
.
Where you can do an activityvery specific towards a goal.
Those kids are the ones thathave the friends Like.
I had so much fun jumping offthe monkey bars with them, or I
had so much fun swinging on theswings with them.
Can we do that again, Like thatis what you want.
Sandy (37:51):
Can we do that again, Like that is what you want and
I'm hearing you basically kindof endorse.
I mean, maybe not explicitlybut, you know, try lots of
different things, like it's justa kajillion athletic things you
can try.
You can try swimming, but ifit's too much you can try
running, you can try tennis, youcan try karate.
(38:12):
You can try so many differentthings that'll tap into all of
these skills that you've beenaddressing.
But find the one that hits theright.
You know sensory load or youknow challenge for them.
That's motivation to them tocontinue to grow and get
stronger 100%.
Dr. Eva (38:31):
We actually on our Instagram, dr Sensory.
That is like one of my lastposts that I posted and it was
about how kids who feel or havea diagnosis like ADHD.
What activities can they do tohelp promote not just friends
but also foster to theircreative outlet?
For example, martial arts bigone, you can do baseball or
(38:52):
soccer.
Do they love running?
Put them in soccer Like that'sawesome.
Let them run Like if they needto hit something.
Put them in baseball Like.
There's so many activities thatyou can do to cater
specifically to your child andthat's the cool part is they
make friends, you get some ofthat energy out, they come home
and they can actually listen toyou and you can be a parent
instead of constantly managingthese meltdowns after these
(39:16):
experiences that they have.
Sandy (39:23):
So I want to make sure we address this before we run out
of time, but I want you, Ava, tomake the case for fidgets for
any adult listening to thispodcast that either doesn't see
the purpose or hates them.
What is the case for lettingyour child have a fidget if they
need it?
Dr. Amy (39:36):
And actually I'm going to let you think about that, eva
, while Sandy reads a word fromour sponsor, and then, when we
come back, we'll talk aboutfidgets and all of the cool toys
that might help with some ofthis when we come back.
Sandy (39:53):
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(40:37):
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Dr. Amy (40:54):
All right, we are continuing our conversation with
Dr Eva Lassie, who is known asDr Sensory for her expertise in
sensory issues.
So, eva, talk to us aboutsensory toys and fidgets, and
who are they most beneficial for?
What are the benefits?
How can we choose the righttypes?
Are there any that you wouldsay?
(41:16):
Just pass that one on by.
Dr. Eva (41:21):
Okay.
So this topic has become moreand more important, especially
as people realize that they needsomething.
I think before people like,maybe thought that they might
need something, but they almostpin themselves like, no, I don't
need anything, I'm fine, andthey end up being like the child
in class who can't payattention, or they end up being
(41:43):
the one that has more difficultylearning or sitting still
things like that where the focusis affected.
And so now, now that there hascome this whole new thing of
resources that you could use,this is huge.
So what you want to focus on isyou want to engage the senses
(42:04):
first.
So you're looking at what yousee, what you feel, what you
sometimes what you taste, orwhether you need oral
stimulation.
You're looking at what thepreference is specific to the
person.
Are you wanting to promotefocus or are you trying to
relieve stress?
What is it you want to do?
And so what you really need todo is understand the personal
(42:28):
needs of either yourself, ifyou're shopping for yourself, or
for the child if you'reshopping for a child, what their
preferences are and,specifically, their sensory
triggers.
What do they not like?
What do they want to stay awayfrom?
Those are the things that youdon't want to get this child.
You want this to promote calmfocus and to allow them to find
(42:51):
something where they can groundthemselves.
So, for example, fidgetspinners, fidget cubes those you
remember, remember like rubik'scubes were in for a while and
then they just like left, likewhere did they go?
Um, so fidget spinners whatthose are?
It promotes focus.
It reduces anxiety, especiallythat repetition that you see in
(43:11):
toys like that.
So that could be perfect foryour average child who's like
needs to do something with theirhands.
If you see them, they're alwayslike playing with their hands,
playing with their shirts, likethey're just like constantly
fidgeting with something.
Those are perfect.
But it's also perfect for youraverage adult, especially
someone who can't focus.
As someone with ADHD, you know,like I can't focus.
(43:33):
I need something.
I mean, it used to be where youpinch your own fingers just to
get something to focus on, andso now that there are like
little spinners and things likethat, that is what you want to
use, like that is awesome, tryit out.
It's also trial and error.
You have to understand thattrial and error is very, very
important in this.
If a little fidget toy is notyour cup of tea and you're
(43:54):
looking for a more calming thing, try a weighted blanket, try a
lap mat.
Those are now becoming a lotmore popular, especially for
those kids that need pressure.
They need that proprioceptiveinput.
They need like that deep calm.
These are your kids who lovehugs.
They love like that deeppressure, just calming.
(44:14):
I don't even know how else todescribe it.
They just need that pressure.
With that.
It provides comfort, itprovides relaxation that they
need.
So if your child needs that orif you need that, that's very
simple.
A weighted lap mat would beperfect for you.
There's also, which is acontroversial thing, I think, is
(44:34):
the chewable necklaces that areout there.
So the reason this iscontroversial is because, so, my
sister is a dentist and she'salways like well, like, for
example, even like pacifiers.
She's like, well, that ruins,like this and that, and I'm like
okay, but if someone is seeingthat oral stimulation, they're
going to find it somewhere.
Why not put it into acontrolled thing, somewhere
(44:56):
where they know they can go to?
They're not.
You'll notice these kids thatjust need that feedback, like
they might be your biter indaycare.
That might be like someone whotends to want to like bite
bookshelves or chew on booksLike this is something my
daughter even did.
I was like how did that bookget all bit up?
The corner's all gone, like shewould be perfect.
Like, especially if you're atlike teething phase as well, you
(45:19):
, you can use something verysimple.
There's very um, like smallerthings for adults who are
capable of handling the smalleritems.
This is something that you very, very careful on, because
little kids cannot have thosesmall items that you would trust
an older, older, um person with.
So that has to be very, verystrategic.
Dr. Amy (45:40):
But we can also Actually, let me speak to that.
So my oldest child inelementary school they didn't
he's like in his 20s, so theydidn't have those necklaces at
the time but he would bite ahole through the collar of his
shirt during the school day, orthe sleeve of his, the hem of
(46:03):
his sleeve, right.
So all these shirts had theseholes in the collars and the
bottom of the sleeves and wrist.
So if I had had one of thosesensory necklaces at the time
for him, how amazing and howmany shirts would we have saved?
Right, he obviously needed thatneural stimulation and that
would have been a perfect way todo that in a way that didn't
(46:23):
destroy his wardrobe too.
Dr. Eva (46:26):
What an expensive right .
Dr. Amy (46:29):
Those necklaces are $10 .
Dr. Eva (46:33):
The shirts are so perfect yeah, oh gosh.
I'm so sorry as a mom, I wouldhave learned.
So perfect.
Yeah, oh gosh, I'm so sorry asa mom, I would have learned how
to sew.
I feel like, nope, you'rewearing it again, oh gosh.
But yes, the necklaces areperfect and it can honestly be
anything.
I've seen ones where you canput in the freezer and they
become cold and so they'regetting that temperature
(46:54):
gradient with it of what theyprefer.
So that's really cool too.
So, or creating it with it ofwhat they prefer, so that's
really cool too.
So you can look at differentoptions for that.
And then the last few categoriesthat I would say are like
visual and then tactile, like,is it a child that needs to see
something as a calming thing?
If you really focus, like, orif you notice kids now see some
(47:14):
of these blurry images comingthrough their screens all the
time, or very bright lights thatthey're coming through.
Some of the shows that researchhas shown has caused honestly
is on its way to probablyincreasing the ADHD rate is how,
like the speed of the show, ifyou notice the screens change
(47:34):
every one to one and a halfseconds, so that in kids that
continuous like boom, boom, boom, boom.
You're continuously seeing thatchange.
Like that affects them too.
So something that has a slowchange like, for example, even
the lava lamps from back in theday I love those, I think I'm
going to go and get one but thatit's slow.
It's therapeutic, it slowstheir system.
(47:55):
Some of those kids need thatbecause after, if they watch a
show like that, you'll noticethat their dynamic changes,
their energy changes.
They're very overstimulated.
You'll notice those meltdownsstart to happen a lot faster and
they almost become addicted toit.
Like this is where that reallychanges who they are, whereas if
(48:16):
you can focus that energy onlike something slower, something
a toy, that's very much likeyou have to sit with this for a
minute and you have to enjoy itit almost detoxes them from that
, which is inevitable in today'sage.
Honestly, there's screens inschools now where they use their
iPads continuously, so you justdon't know.
But finding something groundingfor them is just so, so awesome
(48:39):
and as a parent, you havecontrol of that.
That's the cool part.
Like a fish tank yes, what agreat way to bring like life
into your home, but also haveyour.
That also allows kids to like,know responsibility, like
they're learning to feed thatanimal, the animal, the fish.
They're learning, like, what itis to take care of something
(49:02):
and then watch it in slow motion.
Yes, 100%.
Oh, I love that reference.
I'm going to use that, okay, soyeah.
Sandy (49:09):
Amy, maybe you can speak to the mechanism of that a
little bit, because I think thatcan be confusing to parents as
to how in the brain does it helpyou focus if you are clicking
or doing something else?
I often like with cognitivetraining you'll find that
sometimes the student actuallydoes better if you have them
doing a mental activity on topof the thing that you're asking
(49:31):
them to do.
Doing it alone was much harderthan actually loading that up
and pushing them through to beable to do the task at hand.
For example, you know having tocount while also putting a
puzzle together.
All of a sudden it sort ofcomes together because they're
having to do that dividedattention task.
Is there a mechanism for that?
(49:52):
As to why being able to isolateyour focus onto a fidget,
something that you can squeezeor touch, can help the brain
prioritize other things?
Dr. Amy (50:06):
Well, so Dr Christina Ledbetter, who's a clinical
neuroscientist, says that whenwe use a fidget toy, it actually
grounds the misfiringneurotransmitters toy.
It actually grounds themisfiring neurotransmitters.
And so you know, have we putsomeone in a functional MRI
machine and given them a fidgettoy and seen that happen?
(50:29):
I'm not sure.
So I think that's a theoreticalyou know or just a hypothesis
as to what's happening, but italso we know, in the ADHD brain.
Adhd brains can't rack andstack priority right.
Everything is important.
And so when you are saying,okay, do this with one hand,
(50:51):
while then focusing on another,what you've done is you've taken
away all of the other stimuli.
You've said, okay, there are 15things that you could
potentially be focused on rightnow, and we've narrowed it down
to two the fidget toy in yourhand and the math problem that
(51:11):
you have to solve.
And so sometimes, because Ihave an ADHD brain also,
sometimes we need that narroweddown for us.
I don't know, eva, do you haveanother explanation?
Dr. Eva (51:27):
I think that you have as a human.
You need something that'scomfort for you.
So we all seek comfort in somewhich way, whatever way that is,
especially in uncomfortablesituations.
So, if you really think aboutit, if you're out and about and
you have social anxiety and youdon't like being out with
someone, something that's ofcomfort to you sometimes that's
(51:48):
even a person, Like if younotice, if you're out and about
in public and you don't likethat, but you have your friend
with you or your spouse with youthat relieves so much.
Like you can tolerate what'saround you a lot better.
Sometimes weaning that down tonot being a person so you can
actually, you know, thrive onyour own.
Like weaning that down to anobject or something that you
(52:11):
have in.
Maybe it's super discreet,where no one even knows it.
You don't have to pull out abag of items Like I love that,
but you can just have your thing.
It's your thing, so find it andfocus on that, while then being
able to provide space forwhatever you're learning or
whatever you're doing else, ifthat makes sense.
Dr. Amy (52:31):
Yeah, I actually love that explanation because there
is an emotional component tosensory processing issues, right
.
And so if we are experiencingany sort of stress and anxiety,
right, that is throwing us intoa fight or flight status.
Being able to be mindful aboutthe thing that we're holding
(52:57):
right, like we're being fullypresent with what this feels
like, what this looks like, whatthis sounds like, what this
might be tasting like, whenwe're able to ground ourselves
in a sensory experience that canpull us out of that sympathetic
nervous system response, sothat then we are able to focus
on the task that we need tofocus as well.
(53:19):
So I think that that was animportant point too, that that
comfort thing can pull us out offight or flight.
Dr. Eva (53:28):
And I feel like a lot of people will notice like their
child just automatically pullsit out, like if they have it and
they keep using it, it almostbecomes like an automatic
response.
They know to go there, buttheir tolerance for everything
around them is so much betterbecause they've learned that
they're just grounded.
It becomes a new baseline ofthem with something and
obviously there's conversationsabout like, well, what happens
(53:49):
if they don't have it?
Obviously that's always aconcern, but you're teaching
them to have strategies.
You're teaching them like thisis you can always find something
new, that's okay.
Like cater to where you're at.
It could wean down to,eventually, a ring that you have
, or maybe like something onyour finger, like it can be
anything.
But teaching them thosestrategies to then be able to
(54:10):
thrive around them, like that'sbeautiful.
Dr. Amy (54:13):
Yeah, and I think that's important too.
I'm glad you pointed that out,because we all know what happens
to the two-year-old who leavestheir stuffed animal at
childcare and then can't go tosleep without it that night.
Right?
And so when we give our kidsoptions and strategies, hey,
(54:34):
when you're feeling dysregulatedor when you're feeling
overstimulated or you need someadditional stimulation, here are
three or four different sensorytoys that you could pick from.
Or, by the way, here's abreathing exercise or a
grounding exercise that you cando if you don't have one of your
sensory toys.
So giving them lots ofdifferent, or at least a few
(54:56):
different, options to groundthemselves, I think is important
.
Dr. Eva (55:03):
And everybody needs that.
Everybody, no matter where youare, no matter who you are, even
as you get older.
We all need that.
We all need to know that we'rein a safe space, even with
ourselves.
So that's wonderful.
Dr. Amy (55:16):
All right, we are out of time and need to wrap this up
.
Eva, is there a way that ourlisteners can know more from you
, connect with you?
How can they find out moreabout your work?
Dr. Eva (55:30):
Thank you for asking.
I am so passionate about this.
I'm actually excited to broadenthe resources that just the
everyday parent can have but notjust parent, but experts and
anyone who's looking forinformation, and so our
Instagram, dr Sensory, we focuson, like if you were to provide
any kind of topic that you wantmore information, we do the
(55:51):
research for you and we'll postyou like practical strategies.
It's very simple.
What I love is like it's verychild focused, but then it's
also very like diagnosis focused, for it's very simple.
What I love is like it's verychild focused, but then it's
also very like diagnosis focusedfor those with very specific
needs, and so that is what welove to do.
We have built up our website,but our goal is this is our goal
for you insiders on this isthat the software is almost up
(56:15):
and running for those childrenwho you need more for.
You need an occupationaltherapist, you need a speech
therapist and you're havingdifficulties getting an
appointment.
That's our goal is to providethat for you.
We want for you to be theone-stop shop of hey, come look
here.
We found a speech therapist foryou.
We found an occupationaltherapist for you.
You're not alone in yourparenting journey.
(56:35):
There's so many resources outthere.
It just takes some worksometimes and knowing your child
, obviously, but we all lovethat.
So thank you so much.
Dr. Amy (56:45):
I love that.
What a great resource.
And you're at drsensorycom Also.
You have lots of great articleson some of the topics that we
talked about today and some thatwe probably didn't get to talk
about today, so it's a fantasticplatform for sure.
Sandy (57:00):
Dr Nitalasa, thank you, thank you, guys, so much.
Dr. Amy (57:02):
Oh, thank you for being with us today.
This was a great conversationand one that was long overdue.
Yeah, all right, listeners.
Thank you.
Dr. Eva (57:11):
Oh, go ahead.
I was just going to say thankyou so much for being on the
forefront of this Like thank youfor being willing to show
parents that there is an answer,like that is such a wonderful
thing and I think you both aredoing so amazing in that.
Dr. Amy (57:25):
Thank you All right listeners, thanks for being with
us today.
If you like us, please followus on social media at the Brainy
Moms.
If you like our show, we wouldlove it if you would leave us a
five-star rating and review onApple Podcasts so that we can
reach more smart parents likeyou.
If you would rather see ourfaces, you can subscribe to our
YouTube channel at the BrainyMoms and for some great demos on
(57:49):
cognitive skills and learning,you can find Sandy on TikTok at
the Brain Trainer Lady.
That is all the smart stuffthat we have for you today, so
we're going to catch you nexttime.
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