May 19, 2025 • 48 mins
Ever wonder why your child can't sit still during lessons? Why they melt down when they're wearing certain clothes? Or why they're suddenly screaming at you when they haven't eaten in hours? The answer might lie in sensory processing—a critical yet often overlooked component of learning and behavior.
In this illuminating conversation, occupational therapist Sarah Collins unpacks how our sensory systems influence every aspect of learning and daily life. Beyond the familiar five senses we all know, she explains how our vestibular system (balance), proprioception (body awareness), and interoception (internal body signals) create the foundation for successful learning and emotional regulation.
Sarah reveals the surprising connection between body awareness and emotion regulation, backed by research showing that children who struggle to sense what's happening in their bodies often have difficulty managing their emotions. This knowledge transforms how we understand "difficult" behaviors—what looks like defiance or lack of focus might actually be sensory overwhelm.
The homeschooling environment offers unique opportunities to accommodate sensory needs. Instead of forcing children to adapt to one-size-fits-all learning environments, parents can create flexible spaces that support each child's sensory profile. Maybe your child comprehends better while gently rocking, standing, or even upside down! As Sarah explains, "calm" doesn't necessarily mean "still"—it means the nervous system is regulated enough to process information effectively.
Most powerfully, Sarah shares practical strategies for identifying sensory needs and adapting environments accordingly. From morning routines that incorporate movement to sensory-friendly workspaces, these approaches can dramatically improve learning outcomes. She also discusses how to balance competing sensory needs when siblings have different—sometimes opposite—requirements for successful learning.
Ready to transform your homeschool experience? Listen now to discover how understanding sensory processing can lead to less frustration, more enjoyment, and deeper learning for your entire family.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. Amy Moore (00:03):
Hi, smart moms and dads, welcome to another
episode of the Brainy Momspodcast brought to you today by
LearningArcs Brain TrainingCenters.
I'm Dr Amy Moore here withSandy Zamalis, and Sandy and I
are going to have a conversationtoday with Sarah Collins.
Sarah is an occupationaltherapist with a specialization
in helping parents alignhomeschooling with their
(00:24):
children's unique needs.
Through Homeschool OT, sheprovides personalized
consultations, teachesmonth-long courses on key topics
, fosters community throughgroup and individual coaching,
and she speaks at nationalconferences.
Her work empowers parents tobuild learning environments that
support their children'sdevelopment and passions.
(00:45):
Welcome, Sarah.
We are so excited to have thisconversation with you today.
Thank you.
Sarah Collins (00:51):
I'm excited to be here.
It's our second time in oneweek because we are recording
for both, so it makes me reallyhappy.
Dr. Amy Moore (00:58):
Yeah, absolutely Listeners.
I was a guest on Sarah'spodcast the OT Is In earlier
this week and we met speaking atthe same conference a
homeschool conference inVirginia last year, and so we
sat on a panel aboutneurodiversity and then the
panel time was over, we kind ofwent our own ways and then we
(01:18):
ran into each other in thebathroom.
I don't know, it's alwaysawkward when you're having a
conversation with another womanin a bathroom.
I don't know, but we did, andsomehow we said, hey, we should
swap being a guest on eachother's podcasts.
And that's been almost a yearand a year.
And she said, hey, you rememberthat conversation in the
bathroom?
Sarah Collins (01:39):
When we were washing hands leading over
squirt water.
Dr. Amy Moore (01:41):
Let's do it.
You know, we operate in thatsame space of helping kids with
learning struggles, and we lovehelping homeschool families help
their kids who have learningstruggles, and so it was a
perfect fit, I think, for us toswap podcasts, and so we're
going to talk to you today aboutyour expertise in being an
(02:04):
occupational therapist and howthat fits with helping
homeschool families help theirkids in that space.
Talk to us a little bit aboutwhat it means to be an
occupational therapist, becauseI think that there is a common
misperception when people hearthe word occupational, that they
think job.
Sarah Collins (02:24):
Oh yeah, I get that all the time.
Even I used to work home healthcare before we started
homeschooling and at that point,working in home health care
it's.
The majority of people arealready retired and so they'd be
like the OT, the occupationaltherapist is coming and everyone
would be like I don't need ajob.
I've already done that.
But no, it's different what wedo.
(02:45):
It actually the word goes backall the way.
For those of you in thehomeschooling world, if you've
read any of Charlotte Mason'sbooks, she talks about
occupations all the time,because that's just the lingo of
the 1800s and here we arebringing it in now to good old
2025.
But occupation is how youoccupy your time, so it's
(03:06):
anything and everything that youwant to do during the day,
anything from getting up andbrushing your teeth.
That's what we call an activityof daily living.
So that's an occupation.
Learning to read is anoccupation.
Going to work sure, that's anoccupation.
Talking on Zoom is myoccupation with you right now,
podcasting.
So everything that we need andwant to do.
(03:27):
So when our kids are strugglingwith any of those things and we
want to know why and how wesupport them, then that's where
I come in.
Dr. Amy Moore (03:38):
So if you could rename it in a modern term today
, have you ever thought aboutthat?
What would you actually know?
Now I am functional therapistdaily living like how would you
rename it?
Maybe?
And if you don't know, thenhere's your homework.
Sarah Collins (03:54):
Yeah, I feel like that is a good homework because
at first I was like, maybeactivity therapy.
But you know what?
We?
There's a whole field ofrecreation therapy which
actually we were talking before.
I my undergraduate is from YorkCollege of Pennsylvania and I
was a recreation therapist firstbefore I went back to graduate
school to become an occupationaltherapist.
(04:15):
So, cause, recreation is one ofthe areas of occupation that we
talk about, so I don't think Icould call it activity therapist
.
Everything you do therapist.
Maybe that's what I'd be theall day it activity therapist,
everything you do therapist.
Maybe that's what I'd be theall day, everyday therapist.
There you go.
Sandy Zamalis (04:31):
And it really does fall under that kind of
umbrella because you guys reallyhelp with a lot of different
things Like I think of if mychild is having handwriting
issues, who do we call an OT?
If my child is having somebehavioral issues, you might
start off with an OT Eating andeating is OT.
Sarah Collins (04:50):
So many people come in for that type of thing
and, yeah again, all day, everyday, sleep.
That is an occupation.
So there are people working inall of those areas, and then you
also hear of rehab.
So getting back into drivingright Driving is occupational
therapy.
That's an occupation to do.
You guys, even I don't know whoyour listeners are.
(05:12):
But here we are to tell themoccupational therapists a lot
even work in the sex industry,because that's an occupation,
right.
So we run the gamut as far aswhat your specialty is into all
day, every day activities.
Sandy Zamalis (05:25):
So there you go All day, every day.
That's going to be my nextquestion.
So it sounds to me like youalmost have to pick a specialty,
but maybe not Otherwise.
Sarah Collins (05:32):
It's just so much to learn right, yeah, so the
theory goes into everything,because what we do is take the
activity that you want to do.
So let's just take we can takebrushing your teeth, right,
since that's something small.
So let's just take, we can takebrushing your teeth, right,
since that's something small.
So we think about if brushingyour teeth is your activity,
what motor skills do you need?
So I need to be able to graspit.
I need to know the sequence ofwhat comes first, second and
(05:56):
third.
I need to be able to rotate mywrist so that I can get around
my mouth.
I need to be able to turn onthe water.
I need to be able to standright.
So there's the motor skills,there's the cognitive skills.
Again, I talked some about themotor sequence, but that's also
the sequence of what comes first, second and third, as far as I
squeeze the toothpaste before Iput it in my mouth, and when do
(06:17):
I do this in the day.
So those are some of thecognitive skills and then social
skills that go along with that,like, why am I going to do this
?
And so if our kids arestruggling with any of those,
then that's where we come in tohelp figure out that why.
And then how do we address it?
Do we address it by working onthe cognition?
(06:37):
Do we address it by changing oradapting?
So maybe we change the size ofthe toothpaste or the toothbrush
.
Do we do a social story toexplain why, so that then
they're more willing?
They're just that same theory.
You take that and you apply itto reading.
It's the same thing.
What are the motor skills,social skills, cognitive skills,
why?
(06:57):
How do we come alongside ofthem, support them?
The same exact thing for eating.
The theories are all the samethe activity analysis.
And then what?
So do we specialize?
Yes and no.
I am working now with homeschoolfamilies and in fact there are
people that are like I.
This made me laugh recentlywhen I was trying to figure out
(07:19):
how do I explain what I do?
Because people, people are likeif you're going to Google
something there, they need toknow exactly what you do.
And so I'm like I don't know, Ido it all right.
And then so someone was like,oh, you're like this, the search
engine for when my child isstruggling.
I was like great, I love that.
So that's what I say now we, Ilook at what is the struggle,
(07:45):
how can we come alongside andsupport our children.
And what do we?
How do we adapt or how do wesupport our kids specifically?
Dr. Amy Moore (07:54):
Okay, so let's break that down.
Sandy is saying oh my gosh, youhave to narrow it down because
it's a little bit of everything.
So how do we narrow down thisconversation for less than an
hour?
Sandy Zamalis (08:08):
Because it's a little bit of everything and so.
Dr. Amy Moore (08:10):
I really want to get into talking about sensory
processing and its influence onexecutive functioning and
proprioception and interoceptionand all of that good stuff.
But as you were giving theteeth brushing example, I was
reflecting on how the sensoryexperience of the temperature of
the water would also impactwhether or not a child would
(08:35):
fully engage in the teethbrushing.
If the water's too hot, if thewater's too cold, if you have
water running down your arm,yeah.
Sarah Collins (08:45):
So it adds a whole component to what you're
doing in the environment andthere are so many OTs and myself
included where we really we runthe.
We say this is our area ofexpertise within the world,
because there's PTs that areworking on the motor skills, too
right, and there's teachers whoare working on the cognitive
(09:05):
skills, there are the speechtherapists who are working on
the sequencing.
So all of us, when we're comingtogether, what kind of sets OT
apart?
Is that?
Yes, we also are thinking aboutsensory-wise what is adding
into this experience for you?
Because it's not just thethings that you have to do, but
it's also how the world impacts,how you are able to process
(09:28):
that information and processwhat you're going to do.
You know what, even if we keeptalking about brushing your
teeth, you're brushing yourteeth at home and you're
familiar sink and you know howloud it's going to be when you
turn it on and you know exactlythe water temperature is going
to be.
And then you meet in thatbathroom that Amy and I were in
and the water is so darn cold.
No matter what, you turn it onand you touch it and you're
(09:50):
shivering.
That's a whole other thing fora kid to be able to do, or
there's another person coming in, or it's the hotel bathroom and
it smells different, oranything.
What makes everythingsurrounding that actual activity
that you're doing impacts yoursuccess?
Dr. Amy Moore (10:09):
Yeah, okay.
So then let's talk about howsensory processing and that
interaction with the environmenthas an impact on our executive
processing.
Sarah Collins (10:23):
Yeah, so deep we're going to, we're going to
get into this.
First, I feel like we need totalk about what are the sensory
systems, because all of usprobably have heard of the top
five.
We learned this in elementaryschool what you and what you
smell and what you taste, whatyou hear and what you touch.
Those are our five main systemsthat everybody knows already.
(10:43):
But then there's also yourvestibular system, which is your
inner ear, and that is knowingwhere your body is in space.
So I'm standing up right andhow I keep my postural control
so that as I'm talking to youI'm not like falling all over or
my posture's not so awful thatI'm scrunched in my seat, not
(11:05):
falling off of my chair.
This is your vestibular systemis responsible for that.
Proprioception, which is notjust how you touch your skin but
instead the information that'sgoing in through your joints.
So how far, how firm you'repicking something up.
It's also knowing where yourbody is in relationship to
(11:26):
itself.
My arm is up now my my legs arecrossed.
I know that because I can feelit through my joints.
Not just my leg is touching theother one, but I know
internally.
And then interoception isknowing what's going on inside
your body.
So it's everything from I know.
You know that I feel calm, butI also know my.
(11:49):
I don't not noticing my heartrate right now because it's just
normal, but if you're runningor after you've been going, you
might be able to feel yourheartbeat.
You're noticing that when youfeel hungry, and this is a tough
one, especially for kiddos, whogo from zero to hangry in a
second right.
Because they're not in tune totheir body or they don't know,
(12:11):
because there's a whole lot thathappens on the stomach area.
If you think about if you'rehungry or if you have to go to
the bathroom, or if you havecramps right, or you feel
nervous, a lot of times you feelthat all in your belly and you
have to be able to interpretthat.
So that's the sense ofinterception.
So now, how does that allimpact your executive
(12:34):
functioning?
Now we need to explainexecutive functioning right.
Let's all kind of define ourterms here as we throw out and,
Dr Amy, I feel like you canexplain this probably better
than me being cognitivescientist but or cognitive
psychologist I'm throwing outthe wrong things.
No, I'm both, it's fine.
Dr. Amy Moore (12:52):
Yeah, all right, we got it all.
Sarah Collins (12:54):
For defining executive functioning as just
being able to start and workthrough a task all the way to
its completion.
So that includes the gettingstarted, it includes your
problem solving while you'regoing, it includes your
attention, your working memory,like all of these things to get
from start to finish.
So let's think about yoursensory processing, how that
(13:16):
would affect it.
Right, if you're strugglingbecause you're taking in,
there's so many noises that arearound you, or there's lights
that are blinking that aredifferent, or you know your
clothes feel uncomfortable,that's really hard to get
started and to keep yourattention and stay focused and
persist through to the end ifyou're overwhelmed by your
(13:37):
sensory system.
So we have to help our childrenand ourselves.
We are all included.
We all have sensory systems,obviously, to keep that
regulated for the task at hand.
Dr. Amy Moore (13:53):
So so let's say that your sweater is itchy and
you're trying to do a math test,right?
And the tag in the back of yoursweater, is driving you crazy
or it's the fabric that'sdriving you crazy.
Is it a frustration responsethat throws you into fight or
(14:18):
flight and that impacts yourability to finish working or
engaging on the test, or isthere something else happening?
Is that is the influence ofthat overwhelming sensory
experience doing something?
Is it a distraction but not anemotional response?
Sarah Collins (14:38):
Or both or either .
Yeah, I think it's both andit's really interesting.
If you've ever read any of GaryNeufeld's work, have you ever
read any of that stuff?
He wrote how to Hold On to yourChildren.
I think it was that book, himand Gabor Mate, and he's one of
the first people that I've everheard really talk about here in
America how we mix the two offeelings and emotions.
(15:00):
But in reality they're different.
You feel the emotion, rightYou're talking about here.
I feel my sweater, right, yourbody might be doing something
because of the way that sweateris, but your heart rate probably
is going faster.
Your pupils may be dilated,right, because you're having
this stress response, and thenyour emotion is probably
(15:23):
frustration and distractionbecause of those feelings.
Then, as a result, like here'swhere OTs come in.
And, amy, this is why I'msaying I bet you can explain
what's going on in the brain waybetter than I can, because what
OTs do is we think about thefunction, right.
So it doesn't actually matterwhether it is the emotion or
(15:44):
whatever.
It matters whether you can besuccessful in what you need and
want to do, which in that case,can you take a test?
No, so we need to either Aremove the sweater right, we can
change the environment.
Either A remove the sweaterright, we can change the
environment.
Or B we can work with you oncoping skills to calm the
nervous system.
(16:04):
Like, how do you calm whenyou're wearing this itchy
sweater?
Because maybe you're at thistest and you can't just take off
your shirt right.
Depends on where you are,whether that's socially
acceptable or not.
So we need to think about thator see is there something else
that we can do right now.
Can we remove or change theoccupation?
So can we change the test sothat it's in a different spot?
(16:26):
So maybe your sweater is onlythat overwhelming because you're
also overwhelmed by holding thepencil and using your brain so
hard to work, and so can wechange that too, and that's
where my bread and butter is.
Let's look at all of thosethings together and figure out
how to help you be successful.
Dr. Amy Moore (16:45):
Yeah, and so what I'm hearing you say too is this
is not just going to takeworking one-on-one with the
child who's struggling.
The parent's gonna have to beinvolved too, because if the
environment has to change or thetask has to change, it's going
to be the parent that makes thatcall.
And so then they have tounderstand at a fundamental
(17:05):
level what is happening here,and I don't mean that they have
to understand from aneuroscience perspective.
The questions that I was askingyou was pure curiosity, right.
What you're spot on by sayingdoes it matter whether it's
frustration or distraction.
What matters is this child isincapable of engaging in this
task because of this negativesensory experience that they are
(17:29):
having.
So we need to make a change insomething, but that is going to
require a parent to not befrustrated, to stay calm, to
stay flexible.
We work with a lot of parentswho are not willing to be
flexible.
They have a schedule, they havea schedule and a curriculum and
(17:50):
this is what we're doing todayand this is the time we're doing
it, and this is what we have tocover and we're not deviating.
And if we deviate, right, thenthat's a reflection on me as a
parent, not being able tocontrol the learning environment
.
Sarah Collins (18:01):
Gosh, it's so hard because we as parents for
sure like we want our kids tomeet these norms right and to be
successful, and so to do that,then we're thinking like we have
to get this done and this doneand this is going to follow the
scope and sequence, so thathere's the end point that we're
trying to get to, and Iunderstand that.
I absolutely understand that.
(18:22):
My question is typically toparents of all right, but if
you're just pushing through, isyour child actually learning
that material or are theylearning how to push through and
sometimes that push through?
Grit, that's important,resilience, that's important,
but it shouldn't be that we'reasking them to suppress what
(18:46):
they're feeling, what theiremotions are, what their body is
doing, because then they can'tadvocate for themselves in the
future.
They're just learning how to.
I don't know.
It's funny.
My daughter, who went to publicschool up through third grade I
feel like it took her until thisyear to recognize that she,
when she's hungry, when she'sthirsty and she's 16, now she's
(19:08):
a junior in high school and whenshe needed to go to the
bathroom, that she could do thatwhen she wanted to.
It's almost like she neverdidn't understand the skill of
what is it that I'm feeling inmy body and what do I do about
it?
Because, like there was, onlyyou're only allowed to go at 10,
literally, she ate lunch at1047.
No one's hungry at 1047.
(19:29):
You just got to school at 920,but it didn't matter.
That's the time that it neededto happen.
So what I would challenge you,as a parent, to do is to get
curious and look at the.
What is your child's bodylanguage telling you?
What do you notice with theirfacial expressions?
(19:49):
What do you notice?
You can even literally checktheir heart rate, like some of
these things that can help us tointerpret.
What is this response that'shappening here?
And then ask is this worth it?
Is this perseverance worth thetime that we're having this
right now?
Is the goal the perseverance oris the goal the knowledge?
(20:13):
And if it's the knowledge, thenpersevering isn't going to be
the answer.
Dr. Amy Moore (20:17):
We shouldn't have to persevere just because you
think that's what you'resupposed to do and is it worth
the struggle and the battle andthe conflict and all that's
happening because I said so andso when I have parents push back
, when I suggest that they altersomething in the child's
environment or the schedule orwhatever I say, how's it working
(20:37):
for you?
You don't have to make a change, but how's it working for you?
Nothing changes as the parent.
Sarah Collins (20:45):
The change is ours to make and think about
even ourselves as adults Most ofus you're not stuck and glued
to your cubicle with your buttin the seat from nine to 1040,
920 to 1047, before you'reallowed to go eat lunch.
If you're hungry, you eat asnack.
If something's bothering you,you stand up and move around,
(21:06):
like I don't.
As adults, if we are expectedto be able to advocate and to
carry meet our own needs, thenwhy are we telling our children
to suppress them just so thatthey can stay for our schedule
and for what we're thinking thatthey need to do?
Sandy Zamalis (21:23):
It sounds like what you're saying to me is that
I love that you call.
Your friend said you were asearch engine.
It's almost like you're aneutral set of eyes that helps
break complex behaviors orthings that are happening down
into much more manageable piecesfor parents to keep a watchful
(21:45):
eye on or practice or buildskill in.
Is that a good observation ofwhat?
Sarah Collins (21:51):
you're saying yes , and I feel like I need to take
the AI script of what you justsaid so that I can copy it and
be like that.
That's what I do.
Sandy Zamalis (22:01):
That's awesome Because as parents, we just see
the big.
We see the big rock or elephantin the room right.
Sarah Collins (22:07):
But, we need someone to help us break it down
into much more manageablechunks, and there are so many
times that what I'm doing issaying, okay, so here's where
the issue is and we need toprioritize what's what we're
going to go through to be ableto help to support your child,
and a lot of times I'm like allright, so if what we need to do
(22:28):
is build within the cognitivesystem, okay, so sure, let's go
to learning Rx and let's work onthat.
While we're doing that, here'ssome adaptations to the
curriculum that you were doingat home or to the setup of your
day, because maybe your child ismore alert at 9am, maybe
they're more alert because oftheir time, that they're allowed
(22:48):
to rest or whatever.
At 9pm it's dark outside andthey're not having to take in
all this information from thewindows and the birds come in,
so maybe it's 9 pm.
Like we, I help to break thosethings down and prioritize and
find the best resources to sendout so that kids can get the
skills that they need to andmeet their environment.
Sandy Zamalis (23:11):
Okay.
Sarah Collins (23:11):
In the homeschool community?
Yeah, in the homeschoolcommunity.
Sandy Zamalis (23:14):
What do you, what do you see as the biggest need
in the homeschool community,especially coming from an OT
perspective?
In general, just from ourperspective, we see the
homeschool community having agrowing and growing need for
help and, like the special needsspace just really understanding
neurodivergence and all thedifferent needs that their
(23:36):
children have and helping toaccommodate that.
Are you seeing the same thing?
Sarah Collins (23:40):
Yeah, absolutely, and that's, I think, even the
biggest growth area within thehomeschool community just in
terms of population, becausethere are so many kids who you
know what their needs are, theycan't figure out how to match
the demands of the public schoolsystem or even a private school
brick and mortar where we'reasking kids to sit all the time.
(24:00):
So if you're, if we're justgoing back to the sensory system
, I think, and the demands thinkof when I was mentioning
proprioception, that is the mostcalming sense.
That's our ability to take inthis information and organize it
.
So if you think about when youbump your arm, the first thing
you do is grab it right.
That's your proprioceptivesystem and that's helping to
calm that nervous system down.
(24:22):
Because, you've heard it, Toactivate your proprioceptive
system you have to be moving,and so when we're asking our
kids not to do that all day, butwe want them to continue to
work and be academic and learnand read and write and whatever,
we're seeing a lot of struggle.
So people are coming out of thepublic school system.
(24:43):
But if we're doing that samething at home, we're also
missing the point and notnecessarily supporting our kids.
So parents need to know just asmuch as teachers need to know
how do we mesh the environmentwith what our kids need so that
they're successful in thosedemands that we're placing on
them.
Dr. Amy Moore (25:04):
Yeah, and I think one of the beautiful things
about being a homeschoolingfamily is that you get to decide
what that environment lookslike, and so you get to decide
what the seating arrangementlooks like and the types of
seating that you can offer, andit doesn't have to be in the
same seat all day.
You can go from the dining roomtable to the couch, to your
(25:26):
desk, to the beanbag chair, tothe hammock swing on the back
porch.
Sarah Collins (25:30):
That is the way to minimize negative sensory
experience and maximize whatmaximize comfort or, yeah, just
to understand your body and whatyour body needs so that you can
advocate and then be soyourself aware, so that then you
(25:51):
can advocate to maximize theyes, the comfort or the balance.
How it doesn't the languagedoesn't necessarily matter,
unless it's.
It matters as far as thelanguage that you're using with
your children, right, so ifyou're telling them I want you
to be calm, right, does calmmean that you want them to sit
quietly and learn to twiddletheir thumbs?
(26:12):
Right, not talk?
Right?
Is that what calm is?
Or is calm that, like, you'reable to take in all the
information from me reading yourbook, right, not talk, right?
Is that what calm is?
Or is calm that, like, you'reable to take in all the
information from me reading yourbook, right, and you're able to
listen and narrate it back?
So that might be that you'resitting on a hammock swing and
we're spinning in a chair orwhatever.
Your body doesn't have to bestill so we need to make sure
(26:33):
that our language matches whatwe're asking our kids to do.
Dr. Amy Moore (26:38):
I love that I'm very transparent, that I'm an
ADHD warrior myself and I dohave a hammock chair on my back
porch that I can fully engage inwhatever task I'm working on
because of that rocking motion.
Whatever task I'm working on,because of that rocking motion,
(27:02):
it enables me to ground thosemisfiring neurotransmitters and
be fully present with the task.
Same with just graduallyturning my chair back and forth
at my desk.
I don't do it while we'repodcasting because it's
distracting to whoever'swatching.
Nine times out of 10, you canmove, yeah.
Sarah Collins (27:18):
Yeah, and in fact while I am podcasting, I wish I
can't take my camera down, butI wish you could see like I have
a sit disc that sits on theground, that I move my feet back
and forth Like the entire time.
I figured out what makes it soI don't look like I'm rocking,
but I'm still giving myselfmovement.
So if what our kids are used tous saying is calm down, which
really means sit, still that'svery different than what is
(27:42):
calming to your nervous systemand it could be that you need
that movement to help you to beable to focus on what you're
doing.
Dr. Amy Moore (27:51):
And then I would assume too that some kids get
overstimulated by that movementright so what works for one
might not work for, yeah.
Sarah Collins (28:00):
So for example in our house we say and my son,
who's now 14, he jokes with meI'll tell him he's mom, your
deeds aren't more important thanmy deeds.
But, that's what I used to sayall the time to them when they
were little, because my daughteris is she prefers things to be
quiet, she prefers not a lot of.
If you walked into her room,she's it's like mauve and gray
(28:23):
and she has these like texturesand candles, and oh, it's lovely
.
It just makes me want to have acup of tea, I don't know.
But my son, who is a hockeyplayer, because he needs that
movement and and now he'sallowed to check because he's 14
.
But when he was 12, he hadliterally in all of Philadelphia
(28:44):
, the most penalty minutes,right, because this is the kid
who is the crasher, the moverall the time, and we were able
to give that to him.
But imagine the two of themtogether and then throw in my
other and it can just be chaos.
So I would always be tellingthem like, caleb, your needs are
not more important thanAnnabelle's, and Annabelle, your
(29:06):
needs for him to be still arenot more important than his
needs to move.
We have to figure this outtogether as a family.
Dr. Amy Moore (29:13):
And then again, you just nailed it as the parent
, you make those adaptations,you make those changes.
You're able to say, okay, maybeit doesn't work for you all to
be learning in the same room atthe same time, and that's okay.
Sarah Collins (29:26):
Yeah, absolutely.
And what?
One of the things that wefigured out for Annabelle was
that the movement didn't botherher as much when it was supposed
to be happening, like when shewas expecting it.
It would be the unexpectedmovements that she wasn't
prepared for.
So then, for example, what wewould do is we did a morning
time where I would do lots ofreading aloud and things and
(29:49):
rotate through different oneswhile they were making breakfast
.
They learned to cook early onbecause then they were both
moving and actually my youngerson in there as well.
So they're all moving with apurpose, getting their needs met
, but then able to focus on whatI was saying.
My only thing was you can't betalking because then you can't
be listening, but you can movewith a purpose and I, on this
(30:14):
day, memories that'll pop up,I'm laughing this morning my son
, cause he gets them all andhe'll text them out here and
there, and it was like thispizza crust or something that
they were like kneading at thecounter and his hands it's in
the picture like you can't.
It's blurry cause you can'teven see like how hard he's
moving, and so he's likeslamming, and my youngest son is
(30:35):
sitting next to him with hispointer finger out like poking
at it and my daughter's watchingand he was like he just sent it
to like our family group chatand my husband was like, yep,
that's all he said.
My daughter was like on brand,and I was like, yeah, those were
the days.
That's how we did it.
We made it so that everybodycould be having opportunities to
(30:57):
meet their needs next to eachother or we're able to advocate
to separate.
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Dr. Amy Moore (32:07):
Okay, so I want to tell you about a study that I
read and just have you giveyour thoughts on the findings.
So this was a 2021 study out ofMonash University where
researchers examined how sensoryprocessing relates to executive
function, and in that study,the strongest single correlation
was between body awareness andemotion regulation.
(32:30):
So can you speak to thatassociation Like why does poor
body awareness impact emotionalregulation?
To me, those seem so farseparate, right?
Sarah Collins (32:45):
So think about if you are, let's say, it's like a
rainy day, right, and you are,you're laying down on the couch
all day long and you're watchingTV or whatever.
And then you get up and you'relike, oh my gosh, I haven't
eaten and I haven't gone to thebathroom and I like, all of a
sudden, now that you're moving,you're more aware of what's
(33:07):
going on inside your body, andthen you're emotional, right.
Then you're able to configureout wait, what's going on with
all these things that arehappening all at one time, and
then you need to control thatemotion.
Right?
It required that movement orthat proprioception.
So, in that, proprioception isanother term for this body
(33:28):
awareness here Now, I haven'tread that specific article, but
that would be my off the cuffkind of answer and we've
actually researched howinteroception and proprioception
are even genetically linked,right?
And so kiddos who struggle withproprioception or that body
awareness often also strugglewith interoception.
(33:49):
So we have to work with themfor both.
These are kids that are morelikely to.
When you're like I can, I'mnoticing that you're having a
hard time here.
You're writing off the side ofthe paper and you're slouching
in your chair, you're fallingdown.
You need to get up and move andno, I'm not going to do that.
So they're not necessarily asaware inside of their body, and
(34:15):
then they're resisting whatyou're saying.
So we need to increase thatproprioception or that body
awareness, so that then they'reable to be more alert as to
what's going on inside of theirbody and then we can help to
regulate it more.
Dr. Amy Moore (34:31):
Yeah, my one of my kids I won't say which one
one of my kids went from zero to60 from hangriness.
And he, when I would point thatout, he would explode because I
would recognize has it been awhile since you have eaten, do
you think you might need to eatsomething?
(34:51):
And he would catch me midsentence no need to eat, I'm not
hungry.
Would lose his mind at me if Iwould point out that, and I knew
that was the problem.
But he was not able torecognize his own hunger cues.
Either he was too busy or toodistracted or just didn't
understand what his body wastelling him.
(35:12):
How do you train that?
Sarah Collins (35:15):
Yeah so.
Dr. Amy Moore (35:16):
Kelly.
Sarah Collins (35:16):
Mailer is the guru and we're talking about
specializing right.
The guru as far as research andwork on interoception.
And I will be honest with you,when I graduated from OT school
which was 2008, so not that longago I literally interception
wasn't on the map yet, like wewere not even talking about it.
And so this is where OTs arestill we're researching, we're
(35:40):
learning right alongside witheverybody else and recognizing
wow, this is a piece of thepuzzle that we've missed for so
long.
Even kids that they've been totherapy and they can name every
single coping skill.
Oh yeah, I should take a deepbreath.
Oh yeah, I should start my daywith it.
But then in the moment, arethey doing any of those things?
Not a chance, because theydon't have that connection to
(36:02):
the body.
As far as how this willliterally help to control or to
help them, who wants to bescreaming and yelling at their
parents?
Like that's not.
I'm sure your son didn't wakeup in the morning and be like
yep, today's another day whereI'm going to go yell at my mom,
can't wait.
That's not how people want tobe, and so we have to help them.
(36:24):
To make that connection.
Kelly has done amazing work ondeveloping a curriculum even to
help children to understandtheir bodies.
That she starts even withthings where you are confirming
visually or with your sound orsmell, because those are the
(36:45):
senses that are easier tointerpret.
So she, the first activity inthis curriculum that she has is
you put your hand in water andthen you're looking at it and
you can see, yep, my hand is wet.
I'm not just feeling that, withmy eyes closed I can see it.
My hand is wet, but it's alsocold or hot, whichever, or how
does that make you feel?
Are you uncomfortable or do youlike that?
(37:07):
So she goes through all of thatwork and then begins to get more
in depth as time goes on,because we're trying to give
that connection to children sothat then they are more aware
enough to advocate Like, yes, Iam hungry and I do need to eat,
and it is making me less able tofocus on what I need to do and
(37:29):
even to listen to what you'resaying.
So that I've had families thatI've worked with who literally
have used that as part of theirlanguage arts curriculum for a
while.
Because if you think about allof that description and
describing that you're doing,that's all adjectives, right?
We're learning all of that.
We're learning how to say it,how to talk through it, how to
(37:49):
write it and journal about it.
Let's be functional andteaching our kids within their
bodies and how that ties over toacademia, a little bit of
science too.
Sandy Zamalis (38:00):
Sarah, how often, when you have a client whose
child is struggling in theseareas, how often do you also
have to help the parent with thesame understanding of their own
body?
Because I feel as adults sincethis is like you just said
technically in the literaturethat there are plenty of adults
(38:23):
who don't have these skillseither.
And so they can't necessarilyhelp their child without someone
like you to be the middleperson to help them both see it
in themselves.
Sarah Collins (38:34):
I would, since all I do now is work with
families.
I don't directly work withchildren anymore.
I work only with parents onunderstanding the why and how
they can work through theirhomeschools.
I would say all of the time.
But one of the beautiful thingsof parenting is that we are
(38:55):
able to learn alongside of ourchildren, and it doesn't have to
be that we know everything andthen we're just like, boom, this
is what you need to know.
But it's that we can do thistogether.
We just need to find the rightresources, and then it doesn't
matter if I knew whether I washungry or needed to go to the
bathroom or cramps or whateverbefore, or if I'm learning it
(39:16):
right alongside with you.
It doesn't matter.
The point is that we're gettingfrom not knowing to knowing and
not being able to interpret, tointerpret and not being able to
advocate, to advocate and we'regoing to do it together, or I'm
going to either teach it to youand learn right before you, or
I'm going to learn alongside ofyou.
Dr. Amy Moore (39:36):
Well, I'm sure you get lots of parents with aha
moments then, yeah, oh man, I'mdoing the same thing, or I do
that too, or that explainseverything about my own
childhood right, I'm having ameltdown at three o'clock and I
actually haven't eaten anythingall day, okay.
So, speaking of how you workwith parents, talk to our
(39:57):
listeners about how you do workwith them and what are those
opportunities.
What do you offer?
Cause I'm sure our parents thatare listening are ready to
connect with you.
I would love that.
Sarah Collins (40:10):
Come and connect.
So I have lots of differentoptions, and the reason I do
that is because families allhave different needs, right?
So I have what I call threedifferent ways, like coaching
and consultations andcommunication, and now that I've
done it, I'm like they're allsound the same, so that's really
just confusing but we'll getthere.
(40:30):
I need Sandy to find me, comeand work with me, come and fix
this.
But coaching I do just ifparents are already in this.
But a lot of times you've beengoing to OT for a while, or your
kid has an IEP at school and sothey're getting OT services
there.
But the missing piece is yourunderstanding as a parent, and
(40:51):
that happens frequently I wouldsay the majority of time and
I've talked with my OTcolleagues about this frequently
as well, because when we'reworking within a system whether
it's the medical system or theschool system and we are bound
by requirements and time and allthis, it's not that we don't,
as OTs, don't want to go andhave long conversations with
(41:12):
parents, it's that it doesn't.
When we have to adhere to theserules, we're not able to in the
same way, and so this parenteducation is often the missing
piece.
So I've worked with severalfamilies who are in OT and I
work with their OT and them andthe middleman, or am the first
go person, and then I'mconnecting with an OT who is
(41:34):
either, if you're homeschooling,who is homeschooling friendly
and not going to be like how doyou socialize your children and
so that they understand thehomeschooling community too, and
you all feel safe in whereyou're going.
So that's one piece.
Is just the coaching.
Hey, I have a question.
Give me an answer.
What's the best resource, kindof thing.
I do more in-depth homeschoolconsultations for families who
(41:54):
want that, where we dive innitty gritty to what is going on
in your whole day.
Where is your child struggling?
We do some assessment andsurveys, things like that, to
try to come up with that why andthen make suggestions as far as
what can you do to.
That's a lot of the times whereI'm like we need some cognitive
training, but you need to gohere or you need to.
(42:15):
This is how we can change andadapt the environment, or both
at the same time.
And then the communication is Ido lots of public speaking.
I'm at all not all, but I'm atseveral conferences this summer.
I don't know when this will air,but as of May 15th 2025, I have
a children's picture bookcoming out.
That is all on thisconversation around.
(42:35):
How do we talk about sensoryprocessing with our kids?
It's these little chameleonsthat are on their way to the
cafeteria or to the cafe, and Iwrote it with my really good
friend, jackie, who is actuallya client of mine and she was the
illustrator.
And we talk how do you talk toyour kids about this?
The one brother was veryoverwhelmed by the experience
and then the other, chameleon,is like spinning and because
(42:59):
she's having to wait for abrother to get into the
experience.
That's a good way tocommunicate with our kids about
sensory processing.
Sandy Zamalis (43:06):
I love that.
I know we're getting close onthe end, but with you going
through all that, my brainstarted thinking what do you
think is probably the number onething parents can do in the
early years, because we'reseeing more and more of these
sensory processing issues, andnot to get into the weeds of
what's causing it, but how, as aparent, can we try to
(43:32):
incorporate more things in ourparenting and our home life?
To help build these skillsnaturally.
Sarah Collins (43:39):
Yeah.
So my number one thing would be, when they are little, to be
outside and moving around withthem as often as possible,
because when you are outsideit's a natural environment,
obviously.
So it's not the same as havingto interpret all the fluorescent
lights Even my cheeks are redright now because of my light
coming down but being andthere's natural experiences of
(44:01):
when you're crawling and you'refeeling it on your grass, on
your hands, but you're goinguphill and or downhill and how
that changes your body.
So that's the proprioception.
The smells are more natural.
Like just be and do with themand then you can label that
stuff with your kids of how Ifeel that grass on my hands or
that feels prickly or whatever.
(44:22):
However you want to talk aboutit, narrate what you're doing.
This is we call thatdeclarative language, Like I am
just telling you exactly whatI'm doing while I'm there, and
that opens the conversation forsensory experiences.
From here on out, just be, dolife with your kids and talk
about it.
Dr. Amy Moore (44:41):
Yeah, I love that and we use that with infants
all the time.
right, Even though they don'thave the language, we want to
talk to them as if theyunderstand everything we're
saying okay, now we're going tochange your diaper and so I'm
going to put you up here andlet's buckle you in for safety.
And we're narrating the processto grow their receptive
language, if nothing else, right, and so I love that we
(45:01):
shouldn't stop doing that.
Once our kids are talking, wecontinue to say I think that's
one great way to teach our kidshow to cook, right.
It's like we're talking throughhere's what we're doing, and so
if we carry that into justplaytime, yeah, I'm not going to
say that every mom has to getout there and climb a tree but
if you are and you're likelisten, I'm like pulling my hand
(45:22):
here and pulling my body up ohmy gosh, I'm stronger than I
thought.
Sarah Collins (45:25):
Or, wow, this takes so much more effort than I
thought.
Great, you're doing this andyou're explaining to your
children what they're doing.
But listen to how.
I've already talked about whatI'm feeling inside my body.
This is harder than what Ithought it was going to be.
And you can even talk about,like, how does this feel in my
hands?
All right, you may not want toclimb a tree, although I think
that's awesome and I think weshould all be doing that.
(45:46):
It's really good for yourstrength and your vestibular
system.
Make it happen.
But you could do the same thingwhen you're gardening.
You could do the same thingwhen you're petting the dog.
You could any of it.
Dr. Amy Moore (45:58):
Right, so your website is.
Sarah Collins (46:01):
HomeschoolOTcom Super easy.
Okay, and then there are linksto your podcast right there on
your website right, the OT is inand then there are links to
your podcast right there on yourwebsite.
Right, the OT is in.
The OT is in.
You can find that anywhereApple Podcasts, spotify, all the
places the OT is in.
Okay.
Dr. Amy Moore (46:15):
Sarah, is there anything that you didn't get to
say that you would like to leaveour guests with today?
Sarah Collins (46:23):
No, except here's my no, and except I hope that
you feel not from thisconversation, not like, oh my
gosh, all of these things that Ihaven't done or that I have yet
to do, but recognize that iftomorrow you wake up, or today,
this afternoon, if you'relistening to this and you just
do a self-assessment of your ownself, of like, how does your
(46:43):
head feel, how's your shoulders,how's your stomach, when you
then are able to communicatethat around with kids or whoever
is around you, you've got thefirst step to moving forward
right.
And if you can recognize thatlanguage you're communicating
and then feel comfortable withbuilding your team, if you need
(47:04):
support with that, then I thinkwe're on the right path.
Dr. Amy Moore (47:09):
All right, Sarah Collins, thanks so much for
being with us today.
Absolutely.
Thank you for having me.
All right listeners, that's allwe have for you today.
If you like our show, we wouldlove it if you would leave us a
five-star rating and review onApple Podcasts.
You can also find us on socialmedia, at the Brainy Moms.
If you'd rather see our facesthan hear our voices, or maybe
you want to do both at the sametime we are on YouTube at
(47:32):
thebrainymoms, and if you wantto see what we do some cognitive
training demonstrations go overto TikTok and find Sandy at
thebraintrainerlady.
So, look, that is all the smartstuff that we have for you
today.
We hope you feel a littlesmarter after being with us for
this last hour.
We're going to catch you nexttime.
Hi, smart moms and dads, welcome to another
episode of the Brainy Momspodcast brought to you today by
LearningArcs Brain TrainingCenters.
I'm Dr Amy Moore here withSandy Zamalis, and Sandy and I
are going to have a conversationtoday with Sarah Collins.
Sarah is an occupationaltherapist with a specialization
in helping parents alignhomeschooling with their
(00:24):
children's unique needs.
Through Homeschool OT, sheprovides personalized
consultations, teachesmonth-long courses on key topics
, fosters community throughgroup and individual coaching,
and she speaks at nationalconferences.
Her work empowers parents tobuild learning environments that
support their children'sdevelopment and passions.
(00:45):
Welcome, Sarah.
We are so excited to have thisconversation with you today.
Thank you.
Sarah Collins (00:51):
I'm excited to be here.
It's our second time in oneweek because we are recording
for both, so it makes me reallyhappy.
Dr. Amy Moore (00:58):
Yeah, absolutely Listeners.
I was a guest on Sarah'spodcast the OT Is In earlier
this week and we met speaking atthe same conference a
homeschool conference inVirginia last year, and so we
sat on a panel aboutneurodiversity and then the
panel time was over, we kind ofwent our own ways and then we
(01:18):
ran into each other in thebathroom.
I don't know, it's alwaysawkward when you're having a
conversation with another womanin a bathroom.
I don't know, but we did, andsomehow we said, hey, we should
swap being a guest on eachother's podcasts.
And that's been almost a yearand a year.
And she said, hey, you rememberthat conversation in the
bathroom?
Sarah Collins (01:39):
When we were washing hands leading over
squirt water.
Dr. Amy Moore (01:41):
Let's do it.
You know, we operate in thatsame space of helping kids with
learning struggles, and we lovehelping homeschool families help
their kids who have learningstruggles, and so it was a
perfect fit, I think, for us toswap podcasts, and so we're
going to talk to you today aboutyour expertise in being an
(02:04):
occupational therapist and howthat fits with helping
homeschool families help theirkids in that space.
Talk to us a little bit aboutwhat it means to be an
occupational therapist, becauseI think that there is a common
misperception when people hearthe word occupational, that they
think job.
Sarah Collins (02:24):
Oh yeah, I get that all the time.
Even I used to work home healthcare before we started
homeschooling and at that point,working in home health care
it's.
The majority of people arealready retired and so they'd be
like the OT, the occupationaltherapist is coming and everyone
would be like I don't need ajob.
I've already done that.
But no, it's different what wedo.
(02:45):
It actually the word goes backall the way.
For those of you in thehomeschooling world, if you've
read any of Charlotte Mason'sbooks, she talks about
occupations all the time,because that's just the lingo of
the 1800s and here we arebringing it in now to good old
2025.
But occupation is how youoccupy your time, so it's
(03:06):
anything and everything that youwant to do during the day,
anything from getting up andbrushing your teeth.
That's what we call an activityof daily living.
So that's an occupation.
Learning to read is anoccupation.
Going to work sure, that's anoccupation.
Talking on Zoom is myoccupation with you right now,
podcasting.
So everything that we need andwant to do.
(03:27):
So when our kids are strugglingwith any of those things and we
want to know why and how wesupport them, then that's where
I come in.
Dr. Amy Moore (03:38):
So if you could rename it in a modern term today
, have you ever thought aboutthat?
What would you actually know?
Now I am functional therapistdaily living like how would you
rename it?
Maybe?
And if you don't know, thenhere's your homework.
Sarah Collins (03:54):
Yeah, I feel like that is a good homework because
at first I was like, maybeactivity therapy.
But you know what?
We?
There's a whole field ofrecreation therapy which
actually we were talking before.
I my undergraduate is from YorkCollege of Pennsylvania and I
was a recreation therapist firstbefore I went back to graduate
school to become an occupationaltherapist.
(04:15):
So, cause, recreation is one ofthe areas of occupation that we
talk about, so I don't think Icould call it activity therapist
.
Everything you do therapist.
Maybe that's what I'd be theall day it activity therapist,
everything you do therapist.
Maybe that's what I'd be theall day, everyday therapist.
There you go.
Sandy Zamalis (04:31):
And it really does fall under that kind of
umbrella because you guys reallyhelp with a lot of different
things Like I think of if mychild is having handwriting
issues, who do we call an OT?
If my child is having somebehavioral issues, you might
start off with an OT Eating andeating is OT.
Sarah Collins (04:50):
So many people come in for that type of thing
and, yeah again, all day, everyday, sleep.
That is an occupation.
So there are people working inall of those areas, and then you
also hear of rehab.
So getting back into drivingright Driving is occupational
therapy.
That's an occupation to do.
You guys, even I don't know whoyour listeners are.
(05:12):
But here we are to tell themoccupational therapists a lot
even work in the sex industry,because that's an occupation,
right.
So we run the gamut as far aswhat your specialty is into all
day, every day activities.
Sandy Zamalis (05:25):
So there you go All day, every day.
That's going to be my nextquestion.
So it sounds to me like youalmost have to pick a specialty,
but maybe not Otherwise.
Sarah Collins (05:32):
It's just so much to learn right, yeah, so the
theory goes into everything,because what we do is take the
activity that you want to do.
So let's just take we can takebrushing your teeth, right,
since that's something small.
So let's just take, we can takebrushing your teeth, right,
since that's something small.
So we think about if brushingyour teeth is your activity,
what motor skills do you need?
So I need to be able to graspit.
I need to know the sequence ofwhat comes first, second and
(05:56):
third.
I need to be able to rotate mywrist so that I can get around
my mouth.
I need to be able to turn onthe water.
I need to be able to standright.
So there's the motor skills,there's the cognitive skills.
Again, I talked some about themotor sequence, but that's also
the sequence of what comes first, second and third, as far as I
squeeze the toothpaste before Iput it in my mouth, and when do
(06:17):
I do this in the day.
So those are some of thecognitive skills and then social
skills that go along with that,like, why am I going to do this
?
And so if our kids arestruggling with any of those,
then that's where we come in tohelp figure out that why.
And then how do we address it?
Do we address it by working onthe cognition?
(06:37):
Do we address it by changing oradapting?
So maybe we change the size ofthe toothpaste or the toothbrush
.
Do we do a social story toexplain why, so that then
they're more willing?
They're just that same theory.
You take that and you apply itto reading.
It's the same thing.
What are the motor skills,social skills, cognitive skills,
why?
(06:57):
How do we come alongside ofthem, support them?
The same exact thing for eating.
The theories are all the samethe activity analysis.
And then what?
So do we specialize?
Yes and no.
I am working now with homeschoolfamilies and in fact there are
people that are like I.
This made me laugh recentlywhen I was trying to figure out
(07:19):
how do I explain what I do?
Because people, people are likeif you're going to Google
something there, they need toknow exactly what you do.
And so I'm like I don't know, Ido it all right.
And then so someone was like,oh, you're like this, the search
engine for when my child isstruggling.
I was like great, I love that.
So that's what I say now we, Ilook at what is the struggle,
(07:45):
how can we come alongside andsupport our children.
And what do we?
How do we adapt or how do wesupport our kids specifically?
Dr. Amy Moore (07:54):
Okay, so let's break that down.
Sandy is saying oh my gosh, youhave to narrow it down because
it's a little bit of everything.
So how do we narrow down thisconversation for less than an
hour?
Sandy Zamalis (08:08):
Because it's a little bit of everything and so.
Dr. Amy Moore (08:10):
I really want to get into talking about sensory
processing and its influence onexecutive functioning and
proprioception and interoceptionand all of that good stuff.
But as you were giving theteeth brushing example, I was
reflecting on how the sensoryexperience of the temperature of
the water would also impactwhether or not a child would
(08:35):
fully engage in the teethbrushing.
If the water's too hot, if thewater's too cold, if you have
water running down your arm,yeah.
Sarah Collins (08:45):
So it adds a whole component to what you're
doing in the environment andthere are so many OTs and myself
included where we really we runthe.
We say this is our area ofexpertise within the world,
because there's PTs that areworking on the motor skills, too
right, and there's teachers whoare working on the cognitive
(09:05):
skills, there are the speechtherapists who are working on
the sequencing.
So all of us, when we're comingtogether, what kind of sets OT
apart?
Is that?
Yes, we also are thinking aboutsensory-wise what is adding
into this experience for you?
Because it's not just thethings that you have to do, but
it's also how the world impacts,how you are able to process
(09:28):
that information and processwhat you're going to do.
You know what, even if we keeptalking about brushing your
teeth, you're brushing yourteeth at home and you're
familiar sink and you know howloud it's going to be when you
turn it on and you know exactlythe water temperature is going
to be.
And then you meet in thatbathroom that Amy and I were in
and the water is so darn cold.
No matter what, you turn it onand you touch it and you're
(09:50):
shivering.
That's a whole other thing fora kid to be able to do, or
there's another person coming in, or it's the hotel bathroom and
it smells different, oranything.
What makes everythingsurrounding that actual activity
that you're doing impacts yoursuccess?
Dr. Amy Moore (10:09):
Yeah, okay.
So then let's talk about howsensory processing and that
interaction with the environmenthas an impact on our executive
processing.
Sarah Collins (10:23):
Yeah, so deep we're going to, we're going to
get into this.
First, I feel like we need totalk about what are the sensory
systems, because all of usprobably have heard of the top
five.
We learned this in elementaryschool what you and what you
smell and what you taste, whatyou hear and what you touch.
Those are our five main systemsthat everybody knows already.
(10:43):
But then there's also yourvestibular system, which is your
inner ear, and that is knowingwhere your body is in space.
So I'm standing up right andhow I keep my postural control
so that as I'm talking to youI'm not like falling all over or
my posture's not so awful thatI'm scrunched in my seat, not
(11:05):
falling off of my chair.
This is your vestibular systemis responsible for that.
Proprioception, which is notjust how you touch your skin but
instead the information that'sgoing in through your joints.
So how far, how firm you'repicking something up.
It's also knowing where yourbody is in relationship to
(11:26):
itself.
My arm is up now my my legs arecrossed.
I know that because I can feelit through my joints.
Not just my leg is touching theother one, but I know
internally.
And then interoception isknowing what's going on inside
your body.
So it's everything from I know.
You know that I feel calm, butI also know my.
(11:49):
I don't not noticing my heartrate right now because it's just
normal, but if you're runningor after you've been going, you
might be able to feel yourheartbeat.
You're noticing that when youfeel hungry, and this is a tough
one, especially for kiddos, whogo from zero to hangry in a
second right.
Because they're not in tune totheir body or they don't know,
(12:11):
because there's a whole lot thathappens on the stomach area.
If you think about if you'rehungry or if you have to go to
the bathroom, or if you havecramps right, or you feel
nervous, a lot of times you feelthat all in your belly and you
have to be able to interpretthat.
So that's the sense ofinterception.
So now, how does that allimpact your executive
(12:34):
functioning?
Now we need to explainexecutive functioning right.
Let's all kind of define ourterms here as we throw out and,
Dr Amy, I feel like you canexplain this probably better
than me being cognitivescientist but or cognitive
psychologist I'm throwing outthe wrong things.
No, I'm both, it's fine.
Dr. Amy Moore (12:52):
Yeah, all right, we got it all.
Sarah Collins (12:54):
For defining executive functioning as just
being able to start and workthrough a task all the way to
its completion.
So that includes the gettingstarted, it includes your
problem solving while you'regoing, it includes your
attention, your working memory,like all of these things to get
from start to finish.
So let's think about yoursensory processing, how that
(13:16):
would affect it.
Right, if you're strugglingbecause you're taking in,
there's so many noises that arearound you, or there's lights
that are blinking that aredifferent, or you know your
clothes feel uncomfortable,that's really hard to get
started and to keep yourattention and stay focused and
persist through to the end ifyou're overwhelmed by your
(13:37):
sensory system.
So we have to help our childrenand ourselves.
We are all included.
We all have sensory systems,obviously, to keep that
regulated for the task at hand.
Dr. Amy Moore (13:53):
So so let's say that your sweater is itchy and
you're trying to do a math test,right?
And the tag in the back of yoursweater, is driving you crazy
or it's the fabric that'sdriving you crazy.
Is it a frustration responsethat throws you into fight or
(14:18):
flight and that impacts yourability to finish working or
engaging on the test, or isthere something else happening?
Is that is the influence ofthat overwhelming sensory
experience doing something?
Is it a distraction but not anemotional response?
Sarah Collins (14:38):
Or both or either .
Yeah, I think it's both andit's really interesting.
If you've ever read any of GaryNeufeld's work, have you ever
read any of that stuff?
He wrote how to Hold On to yourChildren.
I think it was that book, himand Gabor Mate, and he's one of
the first people that I've everheard really talk about here in
America how we mix the two offeelings and emotions.
(15:00):
But in reality they're different.
You feel the emotion, rightYou're talking about here.
I feel my sweater, right, yourbody might be doing something
because of the way that sweateris, but your heart rate probably
is going faster.
Your pupils may be dilated,right, because you're having
this stress response, and thenyour emotion is probably
(15:23):
frustration and distractionbecause of those feelings.
Then, as a result, like here'swhere OTs come in.
And, amy, this is why I'msaying I bet you can explain
what's going on in the brain waybetter than I can, because what
OTs do is we think about thefunction, right.
So it doesn't actually matterwhether it is the emotion or
(15:44):
whatever.
It matters whether you can besuccessful in what you need and
want to do, which in that case,can you take a test?
No, so we need to either Aremove the sweater right, we can
change the environment.
Either A remove the sweaterright, we can change the
environment.
Or B we can work with you oncoping skills to calm the
nervous system.
(16:04):
Like, how do you calm whenyou're wearing this itchy
sweater?
Because maybe you're at thistest and you can't just take off
your shirt right.
Depends on where you are,whether that's socially
acceptable or not.
So we need to think about thator see is there something else
that we can do right now.
Can we remove or change theoccupation?
So can we change the test sothat it's in a different spot?
(16:26):
So maybe your sweater is onlythat overwhelming because you're
also overwhelmed by holding thepencil and using your brain so
hard to work, and so can wechange that too, and that's
where my bread and butter is.
Let's look at all of thosethings together and figure out
how to help you be successful.
Dr. Amy Moore (16:45):
Yeah, and so what I'm hearing you say too is this
is not just going to takeworking one-on-one with the
child who's struggling.
The parent's gonna have to beinvolved too, because if the
environment has to change or thetask has to change, it's going
to be the parent that makes thatcall.
And so then they have tounderstand at a fundamental
(17:05):
level what is happening here,and I don't mean that they have
to understand from aneuroscience perspective.
The questions that I was askingyou was pure curiosity, right.
What you're spot on by sayingdoes it matter whether it's
frustration or distraction.
What matters is this child isincapable of engaging in this
task because of this negativesensory experience that they are
(17:29):
having.
So we need to make a change insomething, but that is going to
require a parent to not befrustrated, to stay calm, to
stay flexible.
We work with a lot of parentswho are not willing to be
flexible.
They have a schedule, they havea schedule and a curriculum and
(17:50):
this is what we're doing todayand this is the time we're doing
it, and this is what we have tocover and we're not deviating.
And if we deviate, right, thenthat's a reflection on me as a
parent, not being able tocontrol the learning environment
.
Sarah Collins (18:01):
Gosh, it's so hard because we as parents for
sure like we want our kids tomeet these norms right and to be
successful, and so to do that,then we're thinking like we have
to get this done and this doneand this is going to follow the
scope and sequence, so thathere's the end point that we're
trying to get to, and Iunderstand that.
I absolutely understand that.
(18:22):
My question is typically toparents of all right, but if
you're just pushing through, isyour child actually learning
that material or are theylearning how to push through and
sometimes that push through?
Grit, that's important,resilience, that's important,
but it shouldn't be that we'reasking them to suppress what
(18:46):
they're feeling, what theiremotions are, what their body is
doing, because then they can'tadvocate for themselves in the
future.
They're just learning how to.
I don't know.
It's funny.
My daughter, who went to publicschool up through third grade I
feel like it took her until thisyear to recognize that she,
when she's hungry, when she'sthirsty and she's 16, now she's
(19:08):
a junior in high school and whenshe needed to go to the
bathroom, that she could do thatwhen she wanted to.
It's almost like she neverdidn't understand the skill of
what is it that I'm feeling inmy body and what do I do about
it?
Because, like there was, onlyyou're only allowed to go at 10,
literally, she ate lunch at1047.
No one's hungry at 1047.
(19:29):
You just got to school at 920,but it didn't matter.
That's the time that it neededto happen.
So what I would challenge you,as a parent, to do is to get
curious and look at the.
What is your child's bodylanguage telling you?
What do you notice with theirfacial expressions?
(19:49):
What do you notice?
You can even literally checktheir heart rate, like some of
these things that can help us tointerpret.
What is this response that'shappening here?
And then ask is this worth it?
Is this perseverance worth thetime that we're having this
right now?
Is the goal the perseverance oris the goal the knowledge?
(20:13):
And if it's the knowledge, thenpersevering isn't going to be
the answer.
Dr. Amy Moore (20:17):
We shouldn't have to persevere just because you
think that's what you'resupposed to do and is it worth
the struggle and the battle andthe conflict and all that's
happening because I said so andso when I have parents push back
, when I suggest that they altersomething in the child's
environment or the schedule orwhatever I say, how's it working
(20:37):
for you?
You don't have to make a change, but how's it working for you?
Nothing changes as the parent.
Sarah Collins (20:45):
The change is ours to make and think about
even ourselves as adults Most ofus you're not stuck and glued
to your cubicle with your buttin the seat from nine to 1040,
920 to 1047, before you'reallowed to go eat lunch.
If you're hungry, you eat asnack.
If something's bothering you,you stand up and move around,
(21:06):
like I don't.
As adults, if we are expectedto be able to advocate and to
carry meet our own needs, thenwhy are we telling our children
to suppress them just so thatthey can stay for our schedule
and for what we're thinking thatthey need to do?
Sandy Zamalis (21:23):
It sounds like what you're saying to me is that
I love that you call.
Your friend said you were asearch engine.
It's almost like you're aneutral set of eyes that helps
break complex behaviors orthings that are happening down
into much more manageable piecesfor parents to keep a watchful
(21:45):
eye on or practice or buildskill in.
Is that a good observation ofwhat?
Sarah Collins (21:51):
you're saying yes , and I feel like I need to take
the AI script of what you justsaid so that I can copy it and
be like that.
That's what I do.
Sandy Zamalis (22:01):
That's awesome Because as parents, we just see
the big.
We see the big rock or elephantin the room right.
Sarah Collins (22:07):
But, we need someone to help us break it down
into much more manageablechunks, and there are so many
times that what I'm doing issaying, okay, so here's where
the issue is and we need toprioritize what's what we're
going to go through to be ableto help to support your child,
and a lot of times I'm like allright, so if what we need to do
(22:28):
is build within the cognitivesystem, okay, so sure, let's go
to learning Rx and let's work onthat.
While we're doing that, here'ssome adaptations to the
curriculum that you were doingat home or to the setup of your
day, because maybe your child ismore alert at 9am, maybe
they're more alert because oftheir time, that they're allowed
(22:48):
to rest or whatever.
At 9pm it's dark outside andthey're not having to take in
all this information from thewindows and the birds come in,
so maybe it's 9 pm.
Like we, I help to break thosethings down and prioritize and
find the best resources to sendout so that kids can get the
skills that they need to andmeet their environment.
Sandy Zamalis (23:11):
Okay.
Sarah Collins (23:11):
In the homeschool community?
Yeah, in the homeschoolcommunity.
Sandy Zamalis (23:14):
What do you, what do you see as the biggest need
in the homeschool community,especially coming from an OT
perspective?
In general, just from ourperspective, we see the
homeschool community having agrowing and growing need for
help and, like the special needsspace just really understanding
neurodivergence and all thedifferent needs that their
(23:36):
children have and helping toaccommodate that.
Are you seeing the same thing?
Sarah Collins (23:40):
Yeah, absolutely, and that's, I think, even the
biggest growth area within thehomeschool community just in
terms of population, becausethere are so many kids who you
know what their needs are, theycan't figure out how to match
the demands of the public schoolsystem or even a private school
brick and mortar where we'reasking kids to sit all the time.
(24:00):
So if you're, if we're justgoing back to the sensory system
, I think, and the demands thinkof when I was mentioning
proprioception, that is the mostcalming sense.
That's our ability to take inthis information and organize it
.
So if you think about when youbump your arm, the first thing
you do is grab it right.
That's your proprioceptivesystem and that's helping to
calm that nervous system down.
(24:22):
Because, you've heard it, Toactivate your proprioceptive
system you have to be moving,and so when we're asking our
kids not to do that all day, butwe want them to continue to
work and be academic and learnand read and write and whatever,
we're seeing a lot of struggle.
So people are coming out of thepublic school system.
(24:43):
But if we're doing that samething at home, we're also
missing the point and notnecessarily supporting our kids.
So parents need to know just asmuch as teachers need to know
how do we mesh the environmentwith what our kids need so that
they're successful in thosedemands that we're placing on
them.
Dr. Amy Moore (25:04):
Yeah, and I think one of the beautiful things
about being a homeschoolingfamily is that you get to decide
what that environment lookslike, and so you get to decide
what the seating arrangementlooks like and the types of
seating that you can offer, andit doesn't have to be in the
same seat all day.
You can go from the dining roomtable to the couch, to your
(25:26):
desk, to the beanbag chair, tothe hammock swing on the back
porch.
Sarah Collins (25:30):
That is the way to minimize negative sensory
experience and maximize whatmaximize comfort or, yeah, just
to understand your body and whatyour body needs so that you can
advocate and then be soyourself aware, so that then you
(25:51):
can advocate to maximize theyes, the comfort or the balance.
How it doesn't the languagedoesn't necessarily matter,
unless it's.
It matters as far as thelanguage that you're using with
your children, right, so ifyou're telling them I want you
to be calm, right, does calmmean that you want them to sit
quietly and learn to twiddletheir thumbs?
(26:12):
Right, not talk?
Right?
Is that what calm is?
Or is calm that, like, you'reable to take in all the
information from me reading yourbook, right, not talk, right?
Is that what calm is?
Or is calm that, like, you'reable to take in all the
information from me reading yourbook, right, and you're able to
listen and narrate it back?
So that might be that you'resitting on a hammock swing and
we're spinning in a chair orwhatever.
Your body doesn't have to bestill so we need to make sure
(26:33):
that our language matches whatwe're asking our kids to do.
Dr. Amy Moore (26:38):
I love that I'm very transparent, that I'm an
ADHD warrior myself and I dohave a hammock chair on my back
porch that I can fully engage inwhatever task I'm working on
because of that rocking motion.
Whatever task I'm working on,because of that rocking motion,
(27:02):
it enables me to ground thosemisfiring neurotransmitters and
be fully present with the task.
Same with just graduallyturning my chair back and forth
at my desk.
I don't do it while we'repodcasting because it's
distracting to whoever'swatching.
Nine times out of 10, you canmove, yeah.
Sarah Collins (27:18):
Yeah, and in fact while I am podcasting, I wish I
can't take my camera down, butI wish you could see like I have
a sit disc that sits on theground, that I move my feet back
and forth Like the entire time.
I figured out what makes it soI don't look like I'm rocking,
but I'm still giving myselfmovement.
So if what our kids are used tous saying is calm down, which
really means sit, still that'svery different than what is
(27:42):
calming to your nervous systemand it could be that you need
that movement to help you to beable to focus on what you're
doing.
Dr. Amy Moore (27:51):
And then I would assume too that some kids get
overstimulated by that movementright so what works for one
might not work for, yeah.
Sarah Collins (28:00):
So for example in our house we say and my son,
who's now 14, he jokes with meI'll tell him he's mom, your
deeds aren't more important thanmy deeds.
But, that's what I used to sayall the time to them when they
were little, because my daughteris is she prefers things to be
quiet, she prefers not a lot of.
If you walked into her room,she's it's like mauve and gray
(28:23):
and she has these like texturesand candles, and oh, it's lovely
.
It just makes me want to have acup of tea, I don't know.
But my son, who is a hockeyplayer, because he needs that
movement and and now he'sallowed to check because he's 14
.
But when he was 12, he hadliterally in all of Philadelphia
(28:44):
, the most penalty minutes,right, because this is the kid
who is the crasher, the moverall the time, and we were able
to give that to him.
But imagine the two of themtogether and then throw in my
other and it can just be chaos.
So I would always be tellingthem like, caleb, your needs are
not more important thanAnnabelle's, and Annabelle, your
(29:06):
needs for him to be still arenot more important than his
needs to move.
We have to figure this outtogether as a family.
Dr. Amy Moore (29:13):
And then again, you just nailed it as the parent
, you make those adaptations,you make those changes.
You're able to say, okay, maybeit doesn't work for you all to
be learning in the same room atthe same time, and that's okay.
Sarah Collins (29:26):
Yeah, absolutely.
And what?
One of the things that wefigured out for Annabelle was
that the movement didn't botherher as much when it was supposed
to be happening, like when shewas expecting it.
It would be the unexpectedmovements that she wasn't
prepared for.
So then, for example, what wewould do is we did a morning
time where I would do lots ofreading aloud and things and
(29:49):
rotate through different oneswhile they were making breakfast
.
They learned to cook early onbecause then they were both
moving and actually my youngerson in there as well.
So they're all moving with apurpose, getting their needs met
, but then able to focus on whatI was saying.
My only thing was you can't betalking because then you can't
be listening, but you can movewith a purpose and I, on this
(30:14):
day, memories that'll pop up,I'm laughing this morning my son
, cause he gets them all andhe'll text them out here and
there, and it was like thispizza crust or something that
they were like kneading at thecounter and his hands it's in
the picture like you can't.
It's blurry cause you can'teven see like how hard he's
moving, and so he's likeslamming, and my youngest son is
(30:35):
sitting next to him with hispointer finger out like poking
at it and my daughter's watchingand he was like he just sent it
to like our family group chatand my husband was like, yep,
that's all he said.
My daughter was like on brand,and I was like, yeah, those were
the days.
That's how we did it.
We made it so that everybodycould be having opportunities to
(30:57):
meet their needs next to eachother or we're able to advocate
to separate.
Sandy Zamalis (31:06):
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Dr. Amy Moore (32:07):
Okay, so I want to tell you about a study that I
read and just have you giveyour thoughts on the findings.
So this was a 2021 study out ofMonash University where
researchers examined how sensoryprocessing relates to executive
function, and in that study,the strongest single correlation
was between body awareness andemotion regulation.
(32:30):
So can you speak to thatassociation Like why does poor
body awareness impact emotionalregulation?
To me, those seem so farseparate, right?
Sarah Collins (32:45):
So think about if you are, let's say, it's like a
rainy day, right, and you are,you're laying down on the couch
all day long and you're watchingTV or whatever.
And then you get up and you'relike, oh my gosh, I haven't
eaten and I haven't gone to thebathroom and I like, all of a
sudden, now that you're moving,you're more aware of what's
(33:07):
going on inside your body, andthen you're emotional, right.
Then you're able to configureout wait, what's going on with
all these things that arehappening all at one time, and
then you need to control thatemotion.
Right?
It required that movement orthat proprioception.
So, in that, proprioception isanother term for this body
(33:28):
awareness here Now, I haven'tread that specific article, but
that would be my off the cuffkind of answer and we've
actually researched howinteroception and proprioception
are even genetically linked,right?
And so kiddos who struggle withproprioception or that body
awareness often also strugglewith interoception.
(33:49):
So we have to work with themfor both.
These are kids that are morelikely to.
When you're like I can, I'mnoticing that you're having a
hard time here.
You're writing off the side ofthe paper and you're slouching
in your chair, you're fallingdown.
You need to get up and move andno, I'm not going to do that.
So they're not necessarily asaware inside of their body, and
(34:15):
then they're resisting whatyou're saying.
So we need to increase thatproprioception or that body
awareness, so that then they'reable to be more alert as to
what's going on inside of theirbody and then we can help to
regulate it more.
Dr. Amy Moore (34:31):
Yeah, my one of my kids I won't say which one
one of my kids went from zero to60 from hangriness.
And he, when I would point thatout, he would explode because I
would recognize has it been awhile since you have eaten, do
you think you might need to eatsomething?
(34:51):
And he would catch me midsentence no need to eat, I'm not
hungry.
Would lose his mind at me if Iwould point out that, and I knew
that was the problem.
But he was not able torecognize his own hunger cues.
Either he was too busy or toodistracted or just didn't
understand what his body wastelling him.
(35:12):
How do you train that?
Sarah Collins (35:15):
Yeah so.
Dr. Amy Moore (35:16):
Kelly.
Sarah Collins (35:16):
Mailer is the guru and we're talking about
specializing right.
The guru as far as research andwork on interoception.
And I will be honest with you,when I graduated from OT school
which was 2008, so not that longago I literally interception
wasn't on the map yet, like wewere not even talking about it.
And so this is where OTs arestill we're researching, we're
(35:40):
learning right alongside witheverybody else and recognizing
wow, this is a piece of thepuzzle that we've missed for so
long.
Even kids that they've been totherapy and they can name every
single coping skill.
Oh yeah, I should take a deepbreath.
Oh yeah, I should start my daywith it.
But then in the moment, arethey doing any of those things?
Not a chance, because theydon't have that connection to
(36:02):
the body.
As far as how this willliterally help to control or to
help them, who wants to bescreaming and yelling at their
parents?
Like that's not.
I'm sure your son didn't wakeup in the morning and be like
yep, today's another day whereI'm going to go yell at my mom,
can't wait.
That's not how people want tobe, and so we have to help them.
(36:24):
To make that connection.
Kelly has done amazing work ondeveloping a curriculum even to
help children to understandtheir bodies.
That she starts even withthings where you are confirming
visually or with your sound orsmell, because those are the
(36:45):
senses that are easier tointerpret.
So she, the first activity inthis curriculum that she has is
you put your hand in water andthen you're looking at it and
you can see, yep, my hand is wet.
I'm not just feeling that, withmy eyes closed I can see it.
My hand is wet, but it's alsocold or hot, whichever, or how
does that make you feel?
Are you uncomfortable or do youlike that?
(37:07):
So she goes through all of thatwork and then begins to get more
in depth as time goes on,because we're trying to give
that connection to children sothat then they are more aware
enough to advocate Like, yes, Iam hungry and I do need to eat,
and it is making me less able tofocus on what I need to do and
(37:29):
even to listen to what you'resaying.
So that I've had families thatI've worked with who literally
have used that as part of theirlanguage arts curriculum for a
while.
Because if you think about allof that description and
describing that you're doing,that's all adjectives, right?
We're learning all of that.
We're learning how to say it,how to talk through it, how to
(37:49):
write it and journal about it.
Let's be functional andteaching our kids within their
bodies and how that ties over toacademia, a little bit of
science too.
Sandy Zamalis (38:00):
Sarah, how often, when you have a client whose
child is struggling in theseareas, how often do you also
have to help the parent with thesame understanding of their own
body?
Because I feel as adults sincethis is like you just said
technically in the literaturethat there are plenty of adults
(38:23):
who don't have these skillseither.
And so they can't necessarilyhelp their child without someone
like you to be the middleperson to help them both see it
in themselves.
Sarah Collins (38:34):
I would, since all I do now is work with
families.
I don't directly work withchildren anymore.
I work only with parents onunderstanding the why and how
they can work through theirhomeschools.
I would say all of the time.
But one of the beautiful thingsof parenting is that we are
(38:55):
able to learn alongside of ourchildren, and it doesn't have to
be that we know everything andthen we're just like, boom, this
is what you need to know.
But it's that we can do thistogether.
We just need to find the rightresources, and then it doesn't
matter if I knew whether I washungry or needed to go to the
bathroom or cramps or whateverbefore, or if I'm learning it
(39:16):
right alongside with you.
It doesn't matter.
The point is that we're gettingfrom not knowing to knowing and
not being able to interpret, tointerpret and not being able to
advocate, to advocate and we'regoing to do it together, or I'm
going to either teach it to youand learn right before you, or
I'm going to learn alongside ofyou.
Dr. Amy Moore (39:36):
Well, I'm sure you get lots of parents with aha
moments then, yeah, oh man, I'mdoing the same thing, or I do
that too, or that explainseverything about my own
childhood right, I'm having ameltdown at three o'clock and I
actually haven't eaten anythingall day, okay.
So, speaking of how you workwith parents, talk to our
(39:57):
listeners about how you do workwith them and what are those
opportunities.
What do you offer?
Cause I'm sure our parents thatare listening are ready to
connect with you.
I would love that.
Sarah Collins (40:10):
Come and connect.
So I have lots of differentoptions, and the reason I do
that is because families allhave different needs, right?
So I have what I call threedifferent ways, like coaching
and consultations andcommunication, and now that I've
done it, I'm like they're allsound the same, so that's really
just confusing but we'll getthere.
(40:30):
I need Sandy to find me, comeand work with me, come and fix
this.
But coaching I do just ifparents are already in this.
But a lot of times you've beengoing to OT for a while, or your
kid has an IEP at school and sothey're getting OT services
there.
But the missing piece is yourunderstanding as a parent, and
(40:51):
that happens frequently I wouldsay the majority of time and
I've talked with my OTcolleagues about this frequently
as well, because when we'reworking within a system whether
it's the medical system or theschool system and we are bound
by requirements and time and allthis, it's not that we don't,
as OTs, don't want to go andhave long conversations with
(41:12):
parents, it's that it doesn't.
When we have to adhere to theserules, we're not able to in the
same way, and so this parenteducation is often the missing
piece.
So I've worked with severalfamilies who are in OT and I
work with their OT and them andthe middleman, or am the first
go person, and then I'mconnecting with an OT who is
(41:34):
either, if you're homeschooling,who is homeschooling friendly
and not going to be like how doyou socialize your children and
so that they understand thehomeschooling community too, and
you all feel safe in whereyou're going.
So that's one piece.
Is just the coaching.
Hey, I have a question.
Give me an answer.
What's the best resource, kindof thing.
I do more in-depth homeschoolconsultations for families who
(41:54):
want that, where we dive innitty gritty to what is going on
in your whole day.
Where is your child struggling?
We do some assessment andsurveys, things like that, to
try to come up with that why andthen make suggestions as far as
what can you do to.
That's a lot of the times whereI'm like we need some cognitive
training, but you need to gohere or you need to.
(42:15):
This is how we can change andadapt the environment, or both
at the same time.
And then the communication is Ido lots of public speaking.
I'm at all not all, but I'm atseveral conferences this summer.
I don't know when this will air,but as of May 15th 2025, I have
a children's picture bookcoming out.
That is all on thisconversation around.
(42:35):
How do we talk about sensoryprocessing with our kids?
It's these little chameleonsthat are on their way to the
cafeteria or to the cafe, and Iwrote it with my really good
friend, jackie, who is actuallya client of mine and she was the
illustrator.
And we talk how do you talk toyour kids about this?
The one brother was veryoverwhelmed by the experience
and then the other, chameleon,is like spinning and because
(42:59):
she's having to wait for abrother to get into the
experience.
That's a good way tocommunicate with our kids about
sensory processing.
Sandy Zamalis (43:06):
I love that.
I know we're getting close onthe end, but with you going
through all that, my brainstarted thinking what do you
think is probably the number onething parents can do in the
early years, because we'reseeing more and more of these
sensory processing issues, andnot to get into the weeds of
what's causing it, but how, as aparent, can we try to
(43:32):
incorporate more things in ourparenting and our home life?
To help build these skillsnaturally.
Sarah Collins (43:39):
Yeah.
So my number one thing would be, when they are little, to be
outside and moving around withthem as often as possible,
because when you are outsideit's a natural environment,
obviously.
So it's not the same as havingto interpret all the fluorescent
lights Even my cheeks are redright now because of my light
coming down but being andthere's natural experiences of
(44:01):
when you're crawling and you'refeeling it on your grass, on
your hands, but you're goinguphill and or downhill and how
that changes your body.
So that's the proprioception.
The smells are more natural.
Like just be and do with themand then you can label that
stuff with your kids of how Ifeel that grass on my hands or
that feels prickly or whatever.
(44:22):
However you want to talk aboutit, narrate what you're doing.
This is we call thatdeclarative language, Like I am
just telling you exactly whatI'm doing while I'm there, and
that opens the conversation forsensory experiences.
From here on out, just be, dolife with your kids and talk
about it.
Dr. Amy Moore (44:41):
Yeah, I love that and we use that with infants
all the time.
right, Even though they don'thave the language, we want to
talk to them as if theyunderstand everything we're
saying okay, now we're going tochange your diaper and so I'm
going to put you up here andlet's buckle you in for safety.
And we're narrating the processto grow their receptive
language, if nothing else, right, and so I love that we
(45:01):
shouldn't stop doing that.
Once our kids are talking, wecontinue to say I think that's
one great way to teach our kidshow to cook, right.
It's like we're talking throughhere's what we're doing, and so
if we carry that into justplaytime, yeah, I'm not going to
say that every mom has to getout there and climb a tree but
if you are and you're likelisten, I'm like pulling my hand
(45:22):
here and pulling my body up ohmy gosh, I'm stronger than I
thought.
Sarah Collins (45:25):
Or, wow, this takes so much more effort than I
thought.
Great, you're doing this andyou're explaining to your
children what they're doing.
But listen to how.
I've already talked about whatI'm feeling inside my body.
This is harder than what Ithought it was going to be.
And you can even talk about,like, how does this feel in my
hands?
All right, you may not want toclimb a tree, although I think
that's awesome and I think weshould all be doing that.
(45:46):
It's really good for yourstrength and your vestibular
system.
Make it happen.
But you could do the same thingwhen you're gardening.
You could do the same thingwhen you're petting the dog.
You could any of it.
Dr. Amy Moore (45:58):
Right, so your website is.
Sarah Collins (46:01):
HomeschoolOTcom Super easy.
Okay, and then there are linksto your podcast right there on
your website right, the OT is inand then there are links to
your podcast right there on yourwebsite.
Right, the OT is in.
The OT is in.
You can find that anywhereApple Podcasts, spotify, all the
places the OT is in.
Okay.
Dr. Amy Moore (46:15):
Sarah, is there anything that you didn't get to
say that you would like to leaveour guests with today?
Sarah Collins (46:23):
No, except here's my no, and except I hope that
you feel not from thisconversation, not like, oh my
gosh, all of these things that Ihaven't done or that I have yet
to do, but recognize that iftomorrow you wake up, or today,
this afternoon, if you'relistening to this and you just
do a self-assessment of your ownself, of like, how does your
(46:43):
head feel, how's your shoulders,how's your stomach, when you
then are able to communicatethat around with kids or whoever
is around you, you've got thefirst step to moving forward
right.
And if you can recognize thatlanguage you're communicating
and then feel comfortable withbuilding your team, if you need
(47:04):
support with that, then I thinkwe're on the right path.
Dr. Amy Moore (47:09):
All right, Sarah Collins, thanks so much for
being with us today.
Absolutely.
Thank you for having me.
All right listeners, that's allwe have for you today.
If you like our show, we wouldlove it if you would leave us a
five-star rating and review onApple Podcasts.
You can also find us on socialmedia, at the Brainy Moms.
If you'd rather see our facesthan hear our voices, or maybe
you want to do both at the sametime we are on YouTube at
(47:32):
thebrainymoms, and if you wantto see what we do some cognitive
training demonstrations go overto TikTok and find Sandy at
thebraintrainerlady.
So, look, that is all the smartstuff that we have for you
today.
We hope you feel a littlesmarter after being with us for
this last hour.
We're going to catch you nexttime.
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