Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Welcome to the latestinstallment of Brando Brothers.
(00:01):
I'm Doug.
And I'm Johnny.
Today we're talking about AI inbranding.
Alright, let's get to it.
Johnny Diggz (00:17):
we, we recently posted an article on the, the
brand of brothers blog.
Um, about generative AI and howit is, uh, changing things in,
uh, the creative, uh, designprocess.
Um, and I don't come from thatbackground, but you do, you've
been doing this for a long time.
Um, so how do you think this ischanging?
(00:41):
How the, the branding process,how, what, what you've been
doing for 18 plus years, howhas, how is it changing?
30.
30.
I'm sorry.
Doug Berger (00:51):
18 at remix.
Okay.
30.
30 in my current existence.
Yes.
So how do I feel a generative AIspecifically is impacting the
branding process?
Is that that the big question?
So
Johnny Diggz (01:08):
it is, or what has changed?
How has it affected, you know,not, not just everywhere, but
how is it like you?
Doug Berger (01:15):
Oh, well, the way that it's impacted me.
Um, it is really about creatingan ethical conundrum, to be
quite frank.
Um, so, what, what I startedwith was trying to analyze what
is okay to do.
Um, where, where does the line,where is there a line between
(01:35):
the designer and the computer?
And then what qualifies as, asbeing a creative.
So, the road that I went downwas Let's make it where it's a
tool and not an actualreplacement for what I and other
designers do.
Johnny Diggz (01:56):
But you could, I mean, with the tools that are
available today, someone comesto you and they say, I want a
logo.
Uh, why would they, you know, itseems like they could just type
in, Um, I want a logo that has atrain on it and a tree, and AI
can do that for you.
Doug Berger (02:15):
It's true, but what AI can't do is go, wait, there
should be a strategy here.
And creating a logo for the sakeof creating a logo, that's
basically like having a widgetthat does nothing, right?
The whole point of a brand isnot just a logo.
You need The, the verbal and thevisual, as it relates to the
(02:39):
visual, then you need the logo,the color palette, the
typography, the patterns, thetextures, then the actual
application of these things inconjunction with maybe there's
photography, maybe there areinfographics.
What does that look like?
What is the visual brandlanguage?
And theoretically, you could getthat out of AI.
(03:01):
But we're, we're looking at itfrom a bigger picture than AI
can currently do.
Um, and can AI look at a brandstandards guide and give you
criticism on it?
Sure.
Can it create one right now?
No.
(03:21):
But I don't feel like I answeredyour question.
Johnny Diggz (03:23):
Well, I guess, let me ask it a different way, if,
if you, where, where is itappropriate to use AI in the
design process?
I
Doug Berger (03:35):
feel like it is okay to use AI in the design
process for ideation.
I look at it the same way ascreating an inspiration board.
So let's say that you create aninspiration board on Pinterest,
and it has a bunch of logos andcolor palettes and other brands
(03:56):
that seem to align with thebrand that you're looking to
create.
Is that wrong?
I don't think so.
I think it's, it's, actuallyexpected as part of your
research to see what competitiondoes.
And so, for me, that, that fallsin the, in the, in the funnel,
uh, or the, the vertical, thesilo of, uh, of ideation.
(04:18):
And I, I feel like it's totallyokay to use prompts that you're
originating and not going toChatGPT, for example, and say,
write me a prompt to create alogo that looks like this and to
feed it a logo.
Johnny Diggz (04:32):
I, I suppose, um, another entire level of this is
the idea of where, like, forexample, if you're using, uh,
the image generators like Dolly,um, do you, And you don't know
where that, where they weretrained, like some of these.
Doug Berger (04:53):
Oh yeah, definitely intellectual property ownership
is absolutely a big issue.
So, uh, to that end, yes, thereare tools that make it kind of a
non issue, but I still strugglewith the idea of saying, okay, I
want to create a logo and it'sbased on some, uh, some
(05:13):
repository that Adobe has puttogether.
It's still not an original idea.
because you're cobbling piecestogether from something someone
has already done.
Johnny Diggz (05:25):
So, are there ethical uses of these, uh, these
generation tools beyond justideation?
Doug Berger (05:34):
Generally speaking, I would say no.
However, there are instanceswhere it can be okay, right?
So, first and foremost, I feellike not only does the client
need to be aware that it's AIdriven or AI generated media, I
also think that there might be aline where it's necessary for
(05:58):
the consumer to also be awarethat it's AI driven.
But I think on an ethical level,there are a bunch of criteria
that need to be evaluated.
Now, what, what, I would like toask of you is, what do you think
are the potential drawbacks ofcreating a brand that's so
(06:20):
heavily reliant on AI?
And this is actually coming fromsomething that exists where
there was this icon set thatPentagram created for a client
of theirs, and it, Utilized AIto generate this icon set.
Johnny Diggz (06:35):
You know, I was, I, I was trying to explain this
to someone else the other dayand I found myself using, uh, an
analogy for, um, microwavedinners.
That if you because they werethey happen to be a chef.
So, um, you know, if if you wantto have Eat a microwave dinner
(06:57):
You can just pop it in in in themicrowave and in heat it up and
it's done and that's kind oflike a lot Of generative AI
these days you you can Put in adifferent prompt and maybe get a
different microwave dinner.
But, but, you're generally goingto end up with the same general
quality of food.
Um, to change one of theingredients in that is really
(07:21):
hard because you didn't Onceit's already made, you can't
pull out the lettuce or thetomatoes, right?
And so So if, if you've designedsomething from the ground up and
you've, you've taken the time tobuild the individual elements
and you understand why it'sstructured, how it's structured,
(07:41):
the way it is, you can, you canpull elements out in, in the
design or in a, in a, uh, in totake back to the cooking
analogy, um, you can change theingredients, but, but, um, so if
you, one of the main challengesIs that if you, you, if you rely
(08:02):
too heavily, if you want tochange just one element of your
design, it's so much harder todo that with an AI generated
because you don't have, youdon't have the foundation that
it was built upon to deconstructit.
It's all just sort of amicrowave dinner.
Doug Berger (08:21):
And, and to that end, unlike a microwave dinner
where you can get thatconsistency, if you feed the
same prompt.
Johnny Diggz (08:28):
You, yeah, you might get 10 different dinners,
but they'll have the same jumbleof stuff, but it might be in
different ratios and, and, youknow, and, and that, that is
both the sort of the, the, the,one of the benefits is.
But there's also, um, uh, alittle bit of, uh, of that, um,
(08:49):
you know, slot machinementality, because every time
you hit generate, you don'treally know what you're going to
get, and sometimes it is evenbetter than what you had
thought, but many times it is,you know, 80 percent of the way
there, and how So, um, yeah.
How, how do you get that last20%?
And that's where you still needthat human skill.
(09:11):
You either to, um, take what itgot you the 80% and rebuild it
so you can actually make the,the final 20 or, um, or to be
able to take that, that 80% and,and take it across the finish
line to, to get the finalproduct.
Doug Berger (09:26):
And to that end, what does it say about a brand's
integrity?
When they are creating all ofthis AI generated media, are you
still getting an authentic brandexperience if, if the brand
itself isn't really creating it?
Johnny Diggz (09:44):
Yeah, I don't I don't see how I think that we're
at the point now where manyconsumers can can tell the
difference there is that as goodas it has gotten that uncanny
valley is still there and humanscan detect it even if it's
(10:04):
subconsciously.
And so, um, and you can see thisacross music.
You can see this across visuals.
You can see it in text, um,
Doug Berger (10:13):
especially visuals, which is where we predominantly
live.
Right, right.
And so could you imagine if Youknow, we, we went away from
actually manipulating the pixelsourselves and just relied on mid
journey or dolly to generatethese images.
It's going to look like it camefrom mid journey or dolly.
(10:33):
So what, what is our, what isour agency style, right?
There, there are companies thatcome to us because of, of the
aesthetics of the agency andthat goes away.
No matter how much you train it,it's still not going to be able
to reflect that particularaesthetic, which means that
(10:54):
brand authenticity becomesdiluted.
Um, so, uh, that, that beingsaid, you know, where, where
does human creativity come intoplay?
Uh, in relation to a I from yourperspective, I know that that I
do this day in day out rightwhere where I create visuals,
(11:18):
but from someone who's been onthe receiving end who has has
Worked with agencies not justworked at agencies.
What what does that look likefrom a?
Consumers perspective.
I know that that thought kind ofwent all over the place and was
(11:39):
a little bit meandering andpotentially confusing Let me
rephrase it so So, and we'vebeen talking about human
creativity, uh, and the idea of,of utilizing AI and where does
AI fit in.
So what, what I'm trying to getat is, so there are expectations
(12:00):
as someone who has hired anagency.
And if an agency delivered aproject to you that was
noticeably AI generated, whatwould, what would that do from
your perspective?
How do you, how, how do youresolve that?
Johnny Diggz (12:17):
Well, I think that one thing that we need to
consider is that, um, clientsare using AI.
And so, our, our, you know, asan agency, Your work is going to
be checked with an AI, uh, notevery time, and I'm sure you've
seen examples of this already.
One hundred percent.
Yeah, so, um, you know, you sendsomething to a client and they,
(12:40):
you know, I immediately willsay, Okay, give me, you know,
give me ten criticisms of thisbecause I need them.
You know,
Doug Berger (12:48):
um, but.
Is that because you feel like aclient might not be as educated
in the branding process so theygo to ChatGPT to try to assess
whether or not something is asgood as it could be?
Johnny Diggz (13:02):
Yeah, it could be.
I mean, I think that the, youknow, people are using these
tools for a wide variety ofreasons.
Um, and one of them is, uh, to,to do some of the work that they
were doing.
And if they can use a tool thatsays, uh, evaluate this on my
(13:26):
behalf, um, that saves themtime, I think that they're doing
that.
Whether or not they're ethicallydoing, the one thing that I
think that we all should bedoing is making sure that
there's a human reading Andagreeing or disagreeing with the
content that it generated.
(13:46):
Um, but, uh, you know, one thingthat Um, that, that, I mean, I,
I don't, I don't think thatthere are tools, um, that can,
that can consistently verifywhether something was generated
via AI or not.
(14:07):
Um, but if you're working withan agency that you've not had
that discussion with them yet,it's probably time to have that
discussion openly.
Yeah, it's definitely.
Absolutely.
Yeah, you
Doug Berger (14:18):
definitely want to make sure that you're on the
same page with them.
Right, right.
Johnny Diggz (14:22):
So if your content, any of your content,
whether it's your copy or yourvisual content, anything is
being, uh, generated by AI, Ithink you have the right to know
that and to, to know when.
And where it's being usedbecause
Doug Berger (14:39):
it's, I mean, back to the ethical concept, right?
I mean, not only do, do you andI both agree that, uh, at the,
at the end of the day, whatevercontent is created, there needs
to be significant humaninvolvement, but not only that,
we both very much agree that theclient not only deserves to
(15:00):
know, but should know.
Uh, how and when AI is beingutilized.
Johnny Diggz (15:06):
And I don't think that needs to be, uh, disclosed
on, uh, uh, a, like a perinstance basis, but it needs to
be discussed on a ethical usagebasis.
Like there's, there's, there,there needs to be a consistent
understanding that, hey, we mayuse.
Uh, AI to, uh, generate asimulated background for this,
(15:32):
you know, for stuff like that,but it's not going to be
generating your fonts.
Doug Berger (15:36):
Well, I mean, one of the most, one of the most
common things that we use AI,generative AI for is expanding
an image width, right?
So you'll have that, that mainperson who's in the middle of
the photo, but you need a littlebit more to the left.
So you have a place to put copy,for example, on an ad.
Um, And usually, it's prettyobvious, uh, that, that It's AI
(16:00):
generated.
Obviously, we, we try to make itwhere it blends a little bit
better, so there isn't aquestion of whether or not it
was real or AI generated.
Um, but ultimately, uh, youknow, I, I, I think that, that
what we're looking at.
is how, how can AI shape orinfluence the perception of a
(16:23):
brand by their customers whenthey're utilizing AI and
assuming that they're using AIin an ethical way, what does
that do to a brand'sauthenticity when they're not
actually generating it, um, by,by a human, but instead by a
computer?
Does that, does that shiftperception?
(16:43):
Do we care?
Johnny Diggz (16:46):
I think, I think people do.
I think that, um, you know, incertain circumstances they do,
in certain, in others, there's,there are AI generated, uh,
influencers now, there are, thatare popular, that are generating
revenue, and, um, is thatbecause it's a novel thing, that
(17:08):
they're able to generaterevenue, or is this That's the
new norm.
And that, uh, it's a viablealternative.
You know, we could be, thetechnology exists to be able to
do a podcast like this,completely AI generated, and
some exist.
And I've seen channels wherethey, where they do that.
Uh, is that going to resonatewith audiences?
(17:31):
I think it depends on youraudience.
And if your audience is otherAI, and you're teaching AI with
AI.
That's such a crazy idea.
Right?
Right.
So, um, it's, but that's about,I mean, we're, we're in this age
now where, uh, synthetic data istraining a eyes.
And so we're no, we've, we'vebasically run out of, uh, human
(17:55):
generated data that it canconsume.
And so now they're looking at.
Um, at what they're callingsynthetic data to train the next
generation of AI on.
I don't even know what thatmeans.
Yeah,
Doug Berger (18:11):
and frankly, I don't know what that means in
the world of branding, right?
Obviously, the last thing that acompany wants to do is infringe
upon another company'sintellectual property.
Because that could just simplytink them as a business, right?
It'll put them out of businessthrough litigation.
Um, so it not only are, are wedealing with the, the whole IP
(18:36):
component, we're also dealingwith, well, what do we think is
the right thing to do from amoral perspective and an ethical
perspective?
And so listen, I mean, we justskimmed the surface.
Yeah.
And I think we could have thisconversation for, for days,
months, and probably even years.
Thank you for tuning in to Brandof Brothers.
(18:57):
A big thank you to ourpresenting sponsor, Remixed, the
branding agency, along withproduction assistance from
Johnny Diggz, Simon Jacobsohn,and me, Doug Berger.
We can't forget music by PRO.
Speaking of not forgetting,remember to do that like and
subscribe thing and find us atBrandShowLive.
com and follow us on the socialsat BrandShowLive.
Welcome to the latestinstallment of Brando Brothers.
(00:01):
I'm Doug.
And I'm Johnny.
Today we're talking about AI inbranding.
Alright, let's get to it.
Johnny Diggz (00:17):
we, we recently posted an article on the, the
brand of brothers blog.
Um, about generative AI and howit is, uh, changing things in,
uh, the creative, uh, designprocess.
Um, and I don't come from thatbackground, but you do, you've
been doing this for a long time.
Um, so how do you think this ischanging?
(00:41):
How the, the branding process,how, what, what you've been
doing for 18 plus years, howhas, how is it changing?
30.
30.
I'm sorry.
Doug Berger (00:51):
18 at remix.
Okay.
30.
30 in my current existence.
Yes.
So how do I feel a generative AIspecifically is impacting the
branding process?
Is that that the big question?
So
Johnny Diggz (01:08):
it is, or what has changed?
How has it affected, you know,not, not just everywhere, but
how is it like you?
Doug Berger (01:15):
Oh, well, the way that it's impacted me.
Um, it is really about creatingan ethical conundrum, to be
quite frank.
Um, so, what, what I startedwith was trying to analyze what
is okay to do.
Um, where, where does the line,where is there a line between
(01:35):
the designer and the computer?
And then what qualifies as, asbeing a creative.
So, the road that I went downwas Let's make it where it's a
tool and not an actualreplacement for what I and other
designers do.
Johnny Diggz (01:56):
But you could, I mean, with the tools that are
available today, someone comesto you and they say, I want a
logo.
Uh, why would they, you know, itseems like they could just type
in, Um, I want a logo that has atrain on it and a tree, and AI
can do that for you.
Doug Berger (02:15):
It's true, but what AI can't do is go, wait, there
should be a strategy here.
And creating a logo for the sakeof creating a logo, that's
basically like having a widgetthat does nothing, right?
The whole point of a brand isnot just a logo.
You need The, the verbal and thevisual, as it relates to the
(02:39):
visual, then you need the logo,the color palette, the
typography, the patterns, thetextures, then the actual
application of these things inconjunction with maybe there's
photography, maybe there areinfographics.
What does that look like?
What is the visual brandlanguage?
And theoretically, you could getthat out of AI.
(03:01):
But we're, we're looking at itfrom a bigger picture than AI
can currently do.
Um, and can AI look at a brandstandards guide and give you
criticism on it?
Sure.
Can it create one right now?
No.
(03:21):
But I don't feel like I answeredyour question.
Johnny Diggz (03:23):
Well, I guess, let me ask it a different way, if,
if you, where, where is itappropriate to use AI in the
design process?
I
Doug Berger (03:35):
feel like it is okay to use AI in the design
process for ideation.
I look at it the same way ascreating an inspiration board.
So let's say that you create aninspiration board on Pinterest,
and it has a bunch of logos andcolor palettes and other brands
(03:56):
that seem to align with thebrand that you're looking to
create.
Is that wrong?
I don't think so.
I think it's, it's, actuallyexpected as part of your
research to see what competitiondoes.
And so, for me, that, that fallsin the, in the, in the funnel,
uh, or the, the vertical, thesilo of, uh, of ideation.
(04:18):
And I, I feel like it's totallyokay to use prompts that you're
originating and not going toChatGPT, for example, and say,
write me a prompt to create alogo that looks like this and to
feed it a logo.
Johnny Diggz (04:32):
I, I suppose, um, another entire level of this is
the idea of where, like, forexample, if you're using, uh,
the image generators like Dolly,um, do you, And you don't know
where that, where they weretrained, like some of these.
Doug Berger (04:53):
Oh yeah, definitely intellectual property ownership
is absolutely a big issue.
So, uh, to that end, yes, thereare tools that make it kind of a
non issue, but I still strugglewith the idea of saying, okay, I
want to create a logo and it'sbased on some, uh, some
(05:13):
repository that Adobe has puttogether.
It's still not an original idea.
because you're cobbling piecestogether from something someone
has already done.
Johnny Diggz (05:25):
So, are there ethical uses of these, uh, these
generation tools beyond justideation?
Doug Berger (05:34):
Generally speaking, I would say no.
However, there are instanceswhere it can be okay, right?
So, first and foremost, I feellike not only does the client
need to be aware that it's AIdriven or AI generated media, I
also think that there might be aline where it's necessary for
(05:58):
the consumer to also be awarethat it's AI driven.
But I think on an ethical level,there are a bunch of criteria
that need to be evaluated.
Now, what, what, I would like toask of you is, what do you think
are the potential drawbacks ofcreating a brand that's so
(06:20):
heavily reliant on AI?
And this is actually coming fromsomething that exists where
there was this icon set thatPentagram created for a client
of theirs, and it, Utilized AIto generate this icon set.
Johnny Diggz (06:35):
You know, I was, I, I was trying to explain this
to someone else the other dayand I found myself using, uh, an
analogy for, um, microwavedinners.
That if you because they werethey happen to be a chef.
So, um, you know, if if you wantto have Eat a microwave dinner
(06:57):
You can just pop it in in in themicrowave and in heat it up and
it's done and that's kind oflike a lot Of generative AI
these days you you can Put in adifferent prompt and maybe get a
different microwave dinner.
But, but, you're generally goingto end up with the same general
quality of food.
Um, to change one of theingredients in that is really
(07:21):
hard because you didn't Onceit's already made, you can't
pull out the lettuce or thetomatoes, right?
And so So if, if you've designedsomething from the ground up and
you've, you've taken the time tobuild the individual elements
and you understand why it'sstructured, how it's structured,
(07:41):
the way it is, you can, you canpull elements out in, in the
design or in a, in a, uh, in totake back to the cooking
analogy, um, you can change theingredients, but, but, um, so if
you, one of the main challengesIs that if you, you, if you rely
(08:02):
too heavily, if you want tochange just one element of your
design, it's so much harder todo that with an AI generated
because you don't have, youdon't have the foundation that
it was built upon to deconstructit.
It's all just sort of amicrowave dinner.
Doug Berger (08:21):
And, and to that end, unlike a microwave dinner
where you can get thatconsistency, if you feed the
same prompt.
Johnny Diggz (08:28):
You, yeah, you might get 10 different dinners,
but they'll have the same jumbleof stuff, but it might be in
different ratios and, and, youknow, and, and that, that is
both the sort of the, the, the,one of the benefits is.
But there's also, um, uh, alittle bit of, uh, of that, um,
(08:49):
you know, slot machinementality, because every time
you hit generate, you don'treally know what you're going to
get, and sometimes it is evenbetter than what you had
thought, but many times it is,you know, 80 percent of the way
there, and how So, um, yeah.
How, how do you get that last20%?
And that's where you still needthat human skill.
(09:11):
You either to, um, take what itgot you the 80% and rebuild it
so you can actually make the,the final 20 or, um, or to be
able to take that, that 80% and,and take it across the finish
line to, to get the finalproduct.
Doug Berger (09:26):
And to that end, what does it say about a brand's
integrity?
When they are creating all ofthis AI generated media, are you
still getting an authentic brandexperience if, if the brand
itself isn't really creating it?
Johnny Diggz (09:44):
Yeah, I don't I don't see how I think that we're
at the point now where manyconsumers can can tell the
difference there is that as goodas it has gotten that uncanny
valley is still there and humanscan detect it even if it's
(10:04):
subconsciously.
And so, um, and you can see thisacross music.
You can see this across visuals.
You can see it in text, um,
Doug Berger (10:13):
especially visuals, which is where we predominantly
live.
Right, right.
And so could you imagine if Youknow, we, we went away from
actually manipulating the pixelsourselves and just relied on mid
journey or dolly to generatethese images.
It's going to look like it camefrom mid journey or dolly.
(10:33):
So what, what is our, what isour agency style, right?
There, there are companies thatcome to us because of, of the
aesthetics of the agency andthat goes away.
No matter how much you train it,it's still not going to be able
to reflect that particularaesthetic, which means that
(10:54):
brand authenticity becomesdiluted.
Um, so, uh, that, that beingsaid, you know, where, where
does human creativity come intoplay?
Uh, in relation to a I from yourperspective, I know that that I
do this day in day out rightwhere where I create visuals,
(11:18):
but from someone who's been onthe receiving end who has has
Worked with agencies not justworked at agencies.
What what does that look likefrom a?
Consumers perspective.
I know that that thought kind ofwent all over the place and was
(11:39):
a little bit meandering andpotentially confusing Let me
rephrase it so So, and we'vebeen talking about human
creativity, uh, and the idea of,of utilizing AI and where does
AI fit in.
So what, what I'm trying to getat is, so there are expectations
(12:00):
as someone who has hired anagency.
And if an agency delivered aproject to you that was
noticeably AI generated, whatwould, what would that do from
your perspective?
How do you, how, how do youresolve that?
Johnny Diggz (12:17):
Well, I think that one thing that we need to
consider is that, um, clientsare using AI.
And so, our, our, you know, asan agency, Your work is going to
be checked with an AI, uh, notevery time, and I'm sure you've
seen examples of this already.
One hundred percent.
Yeah, so, um, you know, you sendsomething to a client and they,
(12:40):
you know, I immediately willsay, Okay, give me, you know,
give me ten criticisms of thisbecause I need them.
You know,
Doug Berger (12:48):
um, but.
Is that because you feel like aclient might not be as educated
in the branding process so theygo to ChatGPT to try to assess
whether or not something is asgood as it could be?
Johnny Diggz (13:02):
Yeah, it could be.
I mean, I think that the, youknow, people are using these
tools for a wide variety ofreasons.
Um, and one of them is, uh, to,to do some of the work that they
were doing.
And if they can use a tool thatsays, uh, evaluate this on my
(13:26):
behalf, um, that saves themtime, I think that they're doing
that.
Whether or not they're ethicallydoing, the one thing that I
think that we all should bedoing is making sure that
there's a human reading Andagreeing or disagreeing with the
content that it generated.
(13:46):
Um, but, uh, you know, one thingthat Um, that, that, I mean, I,
I don't, I don't think thatthere are tools, um, that can,
that can consistently verifywhether something was generated
via AI or not.
(14:07):
Um, but if you're working withan agency that you've not had
that discussion with them yet,it's probably time to have that
discussion openly.
Yeah, it's definitely.
Absolutely.
Yeah, you
Doug Berger (14:18):
definitely want to make sure that you're on the
same page with them.
Right, right.
Johnny Diggz (14:22):
So if your content, any of your content,
whether it's your copy or yourvisual content, anything is
being, uh, generated by AI, Ithink you have the right to know
that and to, to know when.
And where it's being usedbecause
Doug Berger (14:39):
it's, I mean, back to the ethical concept, right?
I mean, not only do, do you andI both agree that, uh, at the,
at the end of the day, whatevercontent is created, there needs
to be significant humaninvolvement, but not only that,
we both very much agree that theclient not only deserves to
(15:00):
know, but should know.
Uh, how and when AI is beingutilized.
Johnny Diggz (15:06):
And I don't think that needs to be, uh, disclosed
on, uh, uh, a, like a perinstance basis, but it needs to
be discussed on a ethical usagebasis.
Like there's, there's, there,there needs to be a consistent
understanding that, hey, we mayuse.
Uh, AI to, uh, generate asimulated background for this,
(15:32):
you know, for stuff like that,but it's not going to be
generating your fonts.
Doug Berger (15:36):
Well, I mean, one of the most, one of the most
common things that we use AI,generative AI for is expanding
an image width, right?
So you'll have that, that mainperson who's in the middle of
the photo, but you need a littlebit more to the left.
So you have a place to put copy,for example, on an ad.
Um, And usually, it's prettyobvious, uh, that, that It's AI
(16:00):
generated.
Obviously, we, we try to make itwhere it blends a little bit
better, so there isn't aquestion of whether or not it
was real or AI generated.
Um, but ultimately, uh, youknow, I, I, I think that, that
what we're looking at.
is how, how can AI shape orinfluence the perception of a
(16:23):
brand by their customers whenthey're utilizing AI and
assuming that they're using AIin an ethical way, what does
that do to a brand'sauthenticity when they're not
actually generating it, um, by,by a human, but instead by a
computer?
Does that, does that shiftperception?
(16:43):
Do we care?
Johnny Diggz (16:46):
I think, I think people do.
I think that, um, you know, incertain circumstances they do,
in certain, in others, there's,there are AI generated, uh,
influencers now, there are, thatare popular, that are generating
revenue, and, um, is thatbecause it's a novel thing, that
(17:08):
they're able to generaterevenue, or is this That's the
new norm.
And that, uh, it's a viablealternative.
You know, we could be, thetechnology exists to be able to
do a podcast like this,completely AI generated, and
some exist.
And I've seen channels wherethey, where they do that.
Uh, is that going to resonatewith audiences?
(17:31):
I think it depends on youraudience.
And if your audience is otherAI, and you're teaching AI with
AI.
That's such a crazy idea.
Right?
Right.
So, um, it's, but that's about,I mean, we're, we're in this age
now where, uh, synthetic data istraining a eyes.
And so we're no, we've, we'vebasically run out of, uh, human
(17:55):
generated data that it canconsume.
And so now they're looking at.
Um, at what they're callingsynthetic data to train the next
generation of AI on.
I don't even know what thatmeans.
Yeah,
Doug Berger (18:11):
and frankly, I don't know what that means in
the world of branding, right?
Obviously, the last thing that acompany wants to do is infringe
upon another company'sintellectual property.
Because that could just simplytink them as a business, right?
It'll put them out of businessthrough litigation.
Um, so it not only are, are wedealing with the, the whole IP
(18:36):
component, we're also dealingwith, well, what do we think is
the right thing to do from amoral perspective and an ethical
perspective?
And so listen, I mean, we justskimmed the surface.
Yeah.
And I think we could have thisconversation for, for days,
months, and probably even years.
Thank you for tuning in to Brandof Brothers.
(18:57):
A big thank you to ourpresenting sponsor, Remixed, the
branding agency, along withproduction assistance from
Johnny Diggz, Simon Jacobsohn,and me, Doug Berger.
We can't forget music by PRO.
Speaking of not forgetting,remember to do that like and
subscribe thing and find us atBrandShowLive.
com and follow us on the socialsat BrandShowLive.
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