Episode Transcript
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Scarlett 2i2 USB-2 (00:00):
Brand of brothers is coming back next
(00:01):
year.
In the meantime, here's aninterview from the vault
recorded back in October of2020, please welcome the
legendary Alex Lang previously,the director of visual
propaganda for liquid death,mountain water, and now creative
director at riot games.
Doug Berger (00:21):
Thanks for being on the show.
Would you mind giving ouraudience a brief introduction?
Alex Lang (00:27):
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, first I just want to thankyou so much for having me.
Um, yeah, this is really cool,man.
But, uh, yeah, my name's AlexLang.
Um, I live in awesome Austin,Texas.
I've been here for like threeand a half years now, but, um,
I'm an art director, designer,illustrator, um, augmented
reality creator when I feel likeit.
(00:50):
Uh, yeah, I, I previously workedin advertising for Ooh, almost
seven years and In a coupledays, I will be moving in house
to uh, liquid death as theirdirector of visual propaganda So
i'm going to be leading artdirection and design over there.
Doug Berger (01:10):
That's so awesome So let's begin with the most
complicated question.
How did you end up becoming adesigner?
So in other words When did yourealize you had a knack for
visually articulating ideas?
Alex Lang (01:27):
It kind of, um, it's funny.
I was kind of forced into it.
When I was in high school andeven in middle school, I was
always really into music and Iwas in bands.
And when you're in a band,someone's got to come up with
the logo.
Someone's got to make the shirt,the, uh, all the merch, the gig
(01:49):
posters, the MySpace page at thetime.
So someone had to do it and noneof my other band members really
wanted to.
So I kind of just picked up, atthe time it was Corel Paint
Shop, um, was my first designprogram.
Picked that up, uh, just did awhole bunch of tutorials online,
and um, yeah, I started, Istarted making gig posters for
(02:14):
my band, and then, which kind ofled to other bands.
And then, so that was kind oflike where it began, right?
And then, I was always inschool, I didn't really care
that much.
Um, I was more just about music,so I was that guy in class who
was like, scribbling deathmetal, like, really spiky logos
in his notebook, not payingattention at all.
(02:37):
And, yeah, that kind of kickstarted this design thing.
But at the time, it was morejust fun.
You know, I was in a band, um,you know, making, uh, what I
later decided was like artdirection for each band, right?
Because you kind of got to belike, well, a metal band needs
to look like this.
Like an indie rock band kind oflooks like this.
So I was kind of like preppingmyself for what was about to
(02:59):
come as a designer and artdirector and I didn't even know
it.
So I was doing a lot of that notdoing great in school, but just
good enough.
I was able to start takingclasses after high school.
But I went into computer sciencebecause I didn't realize graphic
design was a profession at thatpoint.
(03:20):
It was just something to do forfun.
So I went into computer science,um, you know Pretty much because
of making MySpace pages forbands.
I had to learn basic HTML, and,uh, that kind of led, I was
like, Oh, this is a, this couldbe a career.
And then pretty quickly Ilearned that there, it wasn't,
uh, the type of creative that Iwanted to do.
(03:42):
So,
Doug Berger (03:43):
so, So how did you make the decision between
pursuing a career in visual artversus slaying us with your
metal riffs, if you will.
Alex Lang (03:58):
You know, I tried to pull off both.
That was the goal.
Um, all through college, when Ieventually went to SCAD, uh,
Savannah College of Art andDesign in Georgia, That was the
hope.
Like, I could be in a band anddesign.
Um, some of my favoritedesigners have done that.
Um, the guitarist, Atushe Amore.
(04:19):
Um, the guitarist in Kill SwitchEngage.
Uh, these are, like, awesomedesigners who do all the work
for their own bands.
And they're also touringmusicians.
So that was kind of who I waslooking up to.
As well as, like, John Baisleyand Baroness.
Um, a huge influence and I waslike, if they could do it, I can
do it.
But what they had that I didn'thave is, uh, they were a lot
(04:40):
more talented at the music part.
Doug Berger (04:43):
But you know, but your music clearly informs your
visual aesthetic, right?
So that kind of takes us to the,the other piece, which is, so
sometimes you have to work withclients.
And you have to make someconcessions with, with regard to
(05:04):
your design aesthetic.
How do you grapple with that?
Do you still find a way toinfuse your style into an
existing brand language?
Do you just acquiesce and stickwith brand guidelines?
Like, how do you reconcile withyourself?
Alex Lang (05:17):
Yeah, it's um, I think it as designers and art
directors can all agree is whenyou're in this field and you're
working for clients now, andthey might not be the type of
clients, you know, that fit yourpersonal aesthetic.
Like, uh, for example, Forinstance, like, I worked on
Southwest Airlines for years.
(05:38):
Um, not metal at all.
Pretty much the opposite, uh,Midwest Airline.
So, what it was, um, kind ofwhat you have to do is become a
chameleon designer, where you,you should be able to pick up a
style guide or a brand guidelinefor any brand and kind of run
(05:59):
with it, right?
Once you see a guideline or, youknow, the color palette or the
fonts that they use, you know,you kind of know.
When you've been doing it forlong enough, you're like, okay,
so the CT button looks likethis.
It should go over there, youknow, and you kind of like, you
see the things you have to do inorder to make it the brand, but
(06:21):
then there's alwaysopportunities.
It doesn't matter what theclient is to, to flex your own
creative muscles.
A lot of times it doesn't work.
You got to kind of, you got to,you got to keep trying.
But what I always like to do ina, when I'm concepting or coming
up with a design for anything isgive the client what they want,
(06:44):
um, whatever it is, and thenalso give them a wild card.
You know, and that that wildcard is sometimes I would say 90
percent of the time it doesn'tgo through When when it does
it's like the most amazingfeeling because you kind of feel
like you put your personal stampon a client um and it's happened
(07:04):
with southwest airlines and Andclients like that where
sometimes you just get lucky orit's the right brief or right
project Where the wild card ideaor design, uh, it's just
something they haven't thoughtof yet You But as long as you
kind of tiptoe the edge of theirbrand guidelines and make sure
that the foundation is thereThen uh, sometimes you can get
(07:27):
away with it
Doug Berger (07:28):
and sometimes you get to shoot for the stars and
they say yeah, that's great Sothat's awesome.
Um and speaking of of companieslike southwest airlines you've
gotten to work on some ratherHigh profile shit, if you will.
Um, I think that's the technicalterm, right?
High profile shit.
Um, do you have a favoritestory?
(07:50):
Um, that you'd like to share?
And again, um, in case youhadn't figured it out.
Totally cool to drop names.
Um, only some of us will judge.
Alex Lang (08:03):
Yeah, totally man.
I gotta say it's, it wasprobably working on Pepsi
Perfect, um, when I was at theBarbarian Group in New York.
So I was really just starting myadvertising career.
I think I was like maybe twoyears into it and I was a junior
designer.
Um, and then this project came,we, Pepsi was one of our clients
(08:25):
and Pepsi does a lot of reallyrad stuff because whenever
you're number two in any, um,industry, like you have to work
extra hard, right?
You throw a lot of money intoit.
Because Coke doesn't need toflex, those aren't, they're
Coke.
They're number one, they'regoing to be number one.
But, uh, so working with Pepsi,they're, they're really down to
do crazy, crazy shit.
(08:47):
And, um, one of those was, uh,Pepsi Perfect.
So I don't know if you rememberin Back to the Future 2, There's
a scene where Marty McFly, whenhe goes to the future, he goes
into the diner and he asks for aPepsi.
And then, uh, like the, thediner counter like opens up and
this weird futuristic Pepsi popsout of the table.
(09:11):
Um, and it's a Pepsi Perfect andit, and it looks weird.
It looks like it's from thefuture.
So, on the anniversary of whenMarty McFly goes into the
future, which was like October,might be butchering this, but
like the 23rd of 2015.
Um, when he goes into the futureand gets that Pepsi, on the
(09:32):
anniversary of that day, Pepsiwas like, well, we got to do
something for the Pepsi Perfectrelease.
Which is awesome, because youdon't get clients that often who
like keep up with, you know.
Like random cool pop culturethings like that.
So they're like, what what couldwe do?
And um, I was I learned thatthis brief was happening in my
agency and I Forced myself ontoit.
(09:53):
Thanks.
They already had a team acreative team um, these this
awesome, uh duo who now are atmother, uh, claire and emily,
but uh, Like amazing creativesand they were leading it and I I
just forced them.
I was like, dude, I love back tothe future You I'm a huge nerd
for this stuff.
So, I kind of just tagged alongand one of the ideas that they
(10:18):
had was let's go to New YorkComic Con and um, that's where
we'll showcase the PepsiPerfect.
Like it's the perfect targetaudience, like people will love
it there.
So we went there and werecreated the diner, uh, from
the movie as a giant booth atComic Con.
And we had this, this, uh, Docand Marty, uh, like
(10:40):
impersonators there who didn'treally look like them at all.
But we had to use them becausethey had the DeLorean, so we
didn't really have a choice.
But it was still cool.
And, um, so we gave away all thePepsi, uh, a bunch, like 500
Pepsi Perfects that day.
Just like super fans who dressedup like a character from Back to
(11:03):
the Future.
But the thing that's stood outfor me, I got to be kind of like
the person that, yeah.
Did you get to keep one?
Yeah, I have one.
Nice.
It's somewhere.
I'll take your word for it.
But the thing that stood out,like it was an awesome
experience.
And I was kind of the guy likebehind, uh, at the booth giving
(11:25):
away the Pepsi Perfects and kindof answering any questions
anybody had, but I got, we hadcelebrities who would come to
the booth and kind of do, um,like a video spot for like IGN
and kind of, uh, you know,They're present, and they're
making content at Comic Con, andone of those person was Whoopi
Goldberg.
And for some reason, she cameright up to me and shook my hand
(11:49):
and said, This is an amazingexperience.
And I, I just owned it, and Isaid, Thanks so much.
Like, thank you.
I'm glad you like it.
I had really nothing to do withthe booth, but I got to meet
Whoopi Goldberg and shake herhand.
And that, that will never happenagain.
Doug Berger (12:05):
Dude, that's better than an AIGA medal, right?
Yeah, it's close.
So that's, that's awesome.
So, completely shifting gears.
From getting your BFA at SCADand cutting your teeth in
Savannah, to working in New YorkCity and now Austin, um, and we
(12:29):
already kind of touched on thefact that you're chillin in
Austin, even though your new gigis, is based out of California,
so that's pretty great.
Um, you have, I've been a bit ofa career gypsy, right?
So do you think it's importantto have the willingness as an
artist to uproot and startfresh?
(12:51):
And do you think that hasimpacted your perspective and
possibly your aesthetic?
And if I can stack one morequestion on top of that, what
have you learned along the wayas it relates to environments
impacting your work?
Alex Lang (13:09):
Yeah, totally man.
So when I was in Savannah, itwas really the music scene was
my biggest inspiration, right?
That's actually why I went toSCAD is my, some of my favorite
bands at the time were from,That area, uh, Kailesa,
Baroness, uh, Macedon is inAtlanta.
(13:29):
Um, and what I took from that asa designer is like metal
aesthetic, right?
And then there's also like thisweird thing that other places in
the U.
S.
or even in the world doesn'thave, which is that southern,
like, homegrown, metal, like,just gross stoner swamp metal
(13:50):
thing.
And it's, it's a whole designaesthetic to itself.
I mean, the metal genre is soexpansive and every single part
of all the sub genres at that,they all have their own
different design aesthetic.
Um, and that was like what Ireally honed in on.
And then when I moved to NewYork, um, it was, and I was
(14:12):
living in Brooklyn, in Bushwick,New York state.
That's where I started reallygetting into graffiti and street
art.
And I was like, so inspired byit.
I went to, um, you know, theArmory show in Brooklyn, saw all
the amazing artists, and then Igot huge into that.
And it started playing into mypersonal, uh, aesthetic and
(14:34):
style, where I was, I waslearning so much about these
different street artists likeTristan Eaton and, uh, Fayol.
You know, all the, all the bighitters.
And so that started affectingeverything I was doing too.
But at the same time, it'smerging with that weird, like
Southern metal style at the sametime.
(14:56):
So it's kind of just like,you're picking up influences
wherever you go and it'shappening subconsciously.
And then when you go intodesign, you're just like, whoa,
this is weird.
This is not where I was planningon going.
And then when I moved to Austin,it was.
It is a similar thing, exceptwhat I find really interesting
about Austin when I moved here,first thing I notice is how much
(15:18):
respect graphic design andbranding it has.
Everywhere you go is the mostincredible, um, this signage and
branding is off the chain.
Like, you'll see a dentist'soffice that has like this killer
logo, you know, it looks likesome grappling shoe.
You're like, how is thatpossible?
(15:40):
And it's everywhere Everybodyhas it.
Um, so I think when I moved toAustin and the emphasis they
have on design, you know Everyrestaurant has a killer menu Uh
type is signage is superimportant hand painted signs.
It kind of um You know, you pickup on all these little things.
And then when you want to startdesigning as a part of a
(16:01):
community in a new location, youknow, you kind of want to dive
into their art community theyalready have and like soak it up
like a sponge.
And, uh, that's exactly what Idid in Austin.
And, yeah, it's kind of, again,it's like an evolution of style
of picking up all these thingsfrom different places I've
lived.
(16:22):
And, uh, Yeah, just diving intothose worlds and learning as
much as you can.
Would you say it's
Doug Berger (16:28):
something that you kind of set out to do to
basically go from one place toanother?
I know that as a military brat,if I can use that term, you kind
of grew up with the idea that,you know, you were your own that
could float from wherever it isthat you needed to go.
So anywhere you went was home,right?
(16:51):
So do you think that is part ofwhat has impacted your
mentality?
Like, do you, do you feel likeyou're uprooting yourself when
you go from one place toanother?
Or, or does it just feel likeyou're immersing yourself into
just a new vibe?
Alex Lang (17:09):
Yeah, I think it's a bit of both.
It's definitely immersing and Iget honestly a little bored in a
place if I've been there forlong.
Like, when I was moving allaround when my dad was in the
military, we would live in aplace for three years max.
Like, and because of that now, Ido feel, uh, just, it just gets
(17:30):
a little bit stale, um, in manysenses, but design for sure.
Um, and it's, it's just fun tolike really immerse yourself in
different places and, uh, justexperience it.
Like even when, when I was incollege, I did a, um, A semester
abroad in Hong Kong And justbecause the opportunity arose
(17:51):
and I was like, well, I have tocheck that out totally But as as
a designer you kind of you seethese places different than
other people would right?
Like you pay attention to thedesign and why do they do the
things they do.
Even advertising, you know, whenyou think in that space, like
advertising in Asia iscompletely different.
(18:12):
Um, so yeah, it's just likesuper interesting.
I don't know if you necessarilyneed to completely uproot and
move yourself to experiencethose things, but, uh, I guess
that's just what I seem to do.
Doug Berger (18:24):
And, and do you find that as you've gone from
one place to another, that it'sUm, so I'm going to talk a
little bit about how I came upwith the idea for this project
and how it's impacted yourprocess.
In fact, actually, before I haveyou go down that path, let me
ask you this, so when you setout to work on a project, can
you talk to us about thatprocess, how you begin that
(18:45):
process, where you find yourinspiration, and like, what that
whole journey looks like, andthen, I guess the whipped cream
on top would be the, have youfound your process change as
your environments have changed?
So like, I think I just askedyou like five questions.
(19:06):
So I guess, I guess, I guess thefirst, the first question is
when you set out to work on aproject, can you talk to us
about that process?
Alex Lang (19:17):
Yeah, totally.
So my process is, uh, uh, Iguess a little bit
unconventional after I've hadmore conversations with
designers about what theirprocess is.
Um, which honestly makes mequestion what I'm doing, but it
seems to have worked out so far.
It's working.
It's
Doug Berger (19:34):
working.
Stick with what you got.
Alex Lang (19:37):
But I kind of, I jumped straight into Photoshop,
Realist Trigger.
Um, I'm, I use the, I'm socomfortable with those tools,
uh, because I don't have a, Inever had a background in
illustration or drawing.
I didn't really start, exceptfor metal logos in the notebook.
That's about it.
Doug Berger (19:57):
And are you a, are you a mouse and keyboard guy
when you're using this or areyou using a stylus?
Alex Lang (20:03):
Yeah, uh, mouse and keyboard, originally trackpad.
Wow.
Doug Berger (20:07):
Wow.
Alex Lang (20:10):
But those just became my, my sketching tools, right?
So, because I kind of grew upwith that and not drawing, I can
fly through an idea really quickin Illustrator or Photoshop.
And through doing this, Now forhowever many years, you kind of,
(20:32):
you start to learn like whatworks and what doesn't.
You don't feel the need to kindof like go down a path or an
idea, um, as far anymore downthat road because you've kind
of, you've experimented enoughover the years to kind of learn
like, okay, that's not going towork.
I can already tell that's notgoing to work.
(20:54):
Um, So you kind of startnarrowing down your options in
your head.
And so I'll just, I'll try tojust blow it out maybe to like
50 percent of what the design'sgoing to be.
Um, and I can, I can kind oftell like if it's working, if
it's not working, I know whatthe final product's eventually
(21:14):
going to look like if I keepgoing down this design idea
path.
And Um, that's usually, like,the process, which is tough
because, you know, when you workwith clients, or anybody, and
you have to deliver a design forthem, uh, they're going to want
to see sketches, right?
They're going to want to see,they don't want to see that 50
(21:35):
percent done, so, it's kind of
Doug Berger (21:37):
I never give them that.
I always give them, if it's notfinished, they're not seeing it.
So, and, and, you know, like,like you said, designers do
things differently.
Um, obviously your approach,totally different from mine,
right?
Like, I, but I also come from anolder school, right?
(21:59):
I mean, when I was in artschool, Not only did you pick up
the pencil first, you also thendid paste ups, and amberliths,
and rubyliths, and press type,right?
And, and put it on a fuckin statcamera in order to create films.
We are in a completely differentplace today, which is probably a
(22:23):
lot closer to where you startedout than where I started out,
right?
Desktop publishing was justbecoming a thing when I started.
I was starting to cut my teeth,if you will.
Um, so yeah, like with regard tohow you, you culminate your
process, right?
How, how does that journeyactually, how does that journey
(22:44):
end for you?
Alex Lang (22:47):
Yeah, so if I'm doing my own personal design, um, I
kind of through the process Ikind of do the the drapling
technique of where he'll designum, he'll, he'll do a move in
illustrator right like one movehe'll move the anchor point like
(23:07):
an inch and then he'll copy andpaste that somewhere else in
illustrator.
and then he'll do another move.
And then at that point, he haslike 20 different designs, but
every step of the way of how yougot to, um, you know, where you
end up.
And for me, it's a, I do thattechnique because it's pretty
(23:30):
interesting because you canalways go too far.
You know, as designers, we lookat, we're like, oh, this needs
to be simplified, or this is toosimple.
But when you have every step ofthe way in front of you in an
illustrator artboard, It kind ofshows you like how you got to
where you did.
And at what point did you go toofar?
Right.
(23:50):
Um, and that's kind of, you, youknow, when you did what as a
designer, you're like, does thislook good?
Or does this not look good?
And that is really like the endquestion, right?
You can always keep going.
Um, but usually I find if youjust go too far, after you've
said it's good, You're going tohave to rein it back in at some
(24:13):
point.
So that's really like theprocess of how I get to the
final stage.
But I think when you're talkingabout how, you know, we come
from different, um, you know, Idon't want to say eras, cause
that's serious, from, fromdifferent backgrounds.
I think that what always isgoing to be the same even in the
(24:35):
future for future designers isthe fundamentals, right?
It's typography color theory Andcomposition and composition is
so important And when you knowthose especially composition and
layout It stops you from makingMistakes or going too far down a
(24:55):
path like I was talking aboutbefore Then you should because
you have an understanding Ofwhat looks right and what
doesn't is something too busy oris it not busy enough?
Is the negative space working?
Is it not working?
Doug Berger (25:09):
And do you think that sensibility for you has
changed throughout the years?
Do you think that?
You know, not to harp on thisidea of you being a, uh, a
fucking career gypsy, but likefor moving from place to place
and experiencing these differentenvironments.
I mean, that's the key here.
(25:30):
It's not about the fact thatthat you've gone from one locale
to another.
It's that you have experiencedthese different.
cultures, you've experiencedthese different cities, right?
You've experienced thesedifferent aesthetics that you
find in each city.
(25:50):
I mean, it's what makes themeach new, uh, unique.
So do you find that that hasinformed how you perceive
composition, etc?
Alex Lang (26:02):
I think it does.
I think it gives you a newperspective on a design
aesthetic that you've never seenbefore, but I think across the
board, no matter where you go orthe designs you see, Like,
you'll always have compositionand it works on everything.
(26:25):
Um, I mean, of course there's atrend happening right now with
anti design or brutalist, whichcompletely throws my theory out
the window.
I think across the board thatIt'll always stay the same, you
know, there is a moment Whereit's working or it's not working
(26:45):
and all design aesthetics reallyhave that and I think it's all
grounded in composition
Doug Berger (26:51):
I totally agree, and it's so funny because I've
had conversations with peoplelike Art Chantry, who, he's a
grunge designer for lack of abetter term.
His stuff is very hand done, anduh, and I identify myself as
more of kind of in the Swisstheory.
(27:12):
And he gives me a lot of shitfor grids, and I'm like, dude,
you start with the grid and thenyou break the grid.
You even do it.
And, uh, and, and he just, heand I kind of went back and
forth on whether or not that'strue.
He's like, yeah, but I don'tdraw a fucking grid.
And I'm like, I don't either.
I mean, I could hit the buttonon my computer to show me a grid
(27:36):
and he's like, yeah, but I don'teven use a fucking computer.
And I'm like, yeah, but youknow, you still have that visual
sensibility and, and whether ornot you're playing the rule of
thirds game, you might just.
Automatically understand it andapply it.
So when you actually reach thefinish line in your design
(27:58):
journey, God, I hate using theword over and over again, but it
really is kind of this, thispath that you go down when you
end up at that final result.
So when you reach the finishline, um, what do you find is
most satisfying?
Like from client approvals, orseeing your stuff out in the
wild, um, or, or at, at ComicCon, or, uh, wherever the Pepsi
(28:23):
thing was, forgive my terriblememory, um, what aspects of your
career make you want tocelebrate?
Alex Lang (28:32):
Yeah, it's, for me, I really got the first
gratification of what I wasdoing, um, was cool or slightly
impactful.
Um, it comes in different, indifferent ways, depending on
what I'm working on.
For a lot of the band work thatI do, Or just, uh, music,
(28:56):
posters, that kind of thing.
It's when I see someone wearingthe shirt, right?
It's like, I'll, whenever I domerch, I'll just stand by the
merch table.
And I'll just watch and see whatpeople are buying.
And when they buy that shirt,that's like the moment, right?
Or, or when I go to the show thenext week and someone showed up
(29:16):
in that shirt.
That's, like, that's the best.
And when it comes to like, uh,you know, advertising work, uh,
client work, I think it's whenyou see it out in the wild.
Um, it's, it's kind of harder toget that personal, you know, um,
appreciation when you seesomebody interacting with it.
(29:39):
That's why a lot of the workthat I, uh, like to do is, you
know, augmented reality, becauseyou see people messing around
with it and then they'll post iton Instagram or Facebook or
wherever.
you kind of get that, uh,they're sharing the thing that
you made.
You know, it's kind of the samereaction as when you see someone
in the shirt, right?
Um, but yeah, I think it reallydepends on the work because I
(30:04):
don't think we're ever going toget gratified when we make like
a banner, right?
You don't see the banner out inthe real world.
You don't get excited whenyou're making it.
Doug Berger (30:13):
Wait, you don't get excited when you see a web
banner that you designed?
I don't even see web banners.
Alex Lang (30:21):
I absolutely have the ad blogger.
Yeah, it's too funny.
With client, with client work,it's a little different, but,
uh, you can still be gratified.
I mean, I remember the firsttime.
Not to name drop, um, but thefirst time I saw Something I did
and out of home was for thePepsi Perfect thing um when it
(30:45):
was in New York and Justplastered huge on the wall and I
did the same thing.
I do when i'm at the at the showWhere I just stand by the wall
that it's plastered on like 14feet Uh, and i'll just watch
people like walk by and look atit And sometimes you get people
will stop and take a photo YouYou know, so, yeah, it's, I
(31:07):
think that's really the momentwhen you see the person
interact.
You don't get to see it everytime, but when you do, it's
pretty special.
Doug Berger (31:14):
Cool.
So, Obviously that's gonnachange a little bit with your
new role, right?
So now you're moving into a newrole, which I, I really would
love for, for you to, to tell mea little bit more about um,
what, what that actuallyentails.
Um, but so instead of getting tointeract with an array of
(31:38):
brands, you are gonna be likethe in house guy that kind of
guides things along from, from abrand experience perspective.
And so as it relates to processand where you find fulfillment
as a designer, what do youexpect to change?
And, well, what do you expect tobe the same?
Alex Lang (32:02):
Yeah, it's, it's hard to answer because I have no idea
really what I'm jumping into.
I have a sense.
But it's, I've never worked inhouse before.
Um, I've never worked on justone client.
But, I think what's differentabout Liquid Death is that I am
(32:23):
so completely aligned with thisbrand.
Doug Berger (32:25):
Yeah, you are.
It's so perfect.
Alex Lang (32:30):
It's everything that I, I didn't know that those
illustrations, those death metallogos, were going to come to
anything when I was drawing themas a kid.
And now, like, a weird freakbrand has randomly shown up over
the couple years that is, isexactly what I want to do, and
(32:53):
It honestly feels like a brandthat I could have started
myself.
And
Doug Berger (32:57):
so
Alex Lang (32:58):
really quickly,
Doug Berger (32:59):
really quickly, if I can, I just want to diverge
just a tiny bit to tell ourlisteners about Liquid Death.
So, um, so If I, if I, I, Ithink it was, uh, Bogusky who,
who said it actually best, thatbasically what you would see are
(33:20):
these ex gamers drinking fromMonster and drinking from Red
Bull and all these other energydrinks, but there wasn't
actually an energy drink inthere, it was actually water.
And so, It made complete andtotal sense to just flip water
on its head.
(33:40):
First off, water primarily comesin these, you know, one time
use, single use plastics, whichare obviously terrible for the
environment, whereas aluminumcans are predominantly recycled,
like it is one of the mostrecyclable, uh, things that you
can basically package thesedays.
And so, that's what Liquid Deathis.
(34:03):
It's basically this, like, deathmetal, brand, uh, in terms of
aesthetic that contains the mostpristine spring water you can
get, right?
And of course, being in a can,it is as earth friendly as it
gets next to actually stickingyour head in spring water.
(34:26):
Okay, so I just wanted to makesure that our listeners know
that what we're talking isspring water and The way it's
packaged.
It's it is so perfect for thatex gamer mentality where Fuck
these energy drinks.
They're drinking water.
Let's not let's just tell themthe truth.
(34:48):
And of course If there was everan extreme, uh drink It's water,
right?
Like, when was the last time youheard of someone drowning in
monster energy drink?
It's just not something thathappens.
That's perfect, man.
Alright, so tell me more aboutthe role and how you expect to
(35:13):
find fulfillment.
Alex Lang (35:16):
Yeah, totally.
It's um, Yeah, so I'm coming in,um, I'm just going to be like
the art direction design lead,right?
And they already do amazingstuff, like with that.
So I'm coming into a brand thatis very much established itself,
um, in terms of their aesthetic,um, what they're doing.
(35:38):
Their target audience, uh, youname it and they're really a an
e commerce first brand as wellSo they're very much in aligned
with you know internet cultureAnd I think the biggest thing
that they go for there is humor.
Like it it has to be funny.
We're dealing with Everybody whoworks there, I guess now
(35:59):
including myself is exadvertising guys And we've all
been there where we can't do thecool idea Right with the client,
um, you want to do that crazyshit that you came up with when
you're like really high And thenyou know you go to present it
and you just get blank staresBut, you know, in your heart, it
(36:20):
would be super cool if itwasn't, you know, some weird
thing you were doing forSouthwest Airlines or some,
like, Capital One, you know?
And, so what's great aboutLiquid Death is that the guys
who made it are all thosepeople.
They're all the ones who havethose just insane ideas during
(36:41):
the meetings.
It just gets shot down andeveryone's like, what are you
doing, dude?
just deliver the tv spot.
And
Doug Berger (36:48):
so they're taking Is the CEO like a former
creative director too?
Alex Lang (36:53):
Yeah, yeah, he was at um, he's been in a bunch of
places.
Um, last, what he was doing wasat Donor in LA, uh, working on
Netflix.
So he did a bunch of like thestranger things promos when uh,
when that show first came out Sohe's doing a lot of stuff like
that.
And um Yeah, it's I mean, thisis a brand that is rooted In
(37:17):
ridiculousness like the productitself is ridiculous.
But when you actually like thinkabout the messaging And the
mission behind it.
It's there's There's so muchtruth to it, you know and When
when you're advertising guys andyou're like we can do anything
because this is our brand we arethe client Like just really
(37:38):
special things happen.
So I definitely encourage allthe listeners to go check out
the spots that they've created.
Um, it's mind boggling there.
It involves waterboarding.
It has, um, there's a spot thatwas animated by, um, the guy who
did Mr.
Pickles where we have like a, amuscular, like Undertaker style
(37:59):
guy with a can for a head.
He's like cutting people's headsoff.
Um, it's really
Doug Berger (38:04):
balls to the wall.
Yeah.
I mean, first off, the, the,the, the live action one was
just spectacularly hilarious.
It basically takes the, theorbits gum concept, elevates it
and flips it on its head.
And then the, the, the cartoonone is.
(38:27):
Holy, holy crap.
It's incredibly, um, alarming.
And, uh, and, and you're justlike, wow, that's, that's
intense stuff.
Um, but I gotta say, thank youso much.
You're awesome.
This was awesome.
And, um, do you have any partingwords or mystical words of
(38:49):
wisdom you care to impart to ourlisteners?
Alex Lang (38:52):
Yeah, man, it's so I was thinking about this earlier
and how like liquid depth kindof came about and how I got on
their radar, as well as a coupleother agencies I've worked for
in the past is the work isdefinitely a big part of it.
Like what you're doing.
And of course, like, you know,the, the word no one wants to
(39:15):
hear side hustles.
It's a thing, you know, it'shard to have side hustle when
you're working those 70 hourweeks, but you know, sometimes
you need a release to go do, um,your own thing and not work on,
you know, a client.
But the biggest thing that Ifound, um, that really grabs
people's attention And get somegoing is um, that opens you up
(39:39):
to like cooler work, you knowLike i've been that guy who was
just sitting working on capitalone southwest airlines Um, you
know these pretty monotonousbrands where their style guides
are like, you know to a tee It'sit's so strict and What I found
that really like opens you up togive you different opportunities
(40:01):
is your portfolio and the wayyou present the work.
Um, for the longest time I hadreally just whack work in there
that I wasn't interested in.
No one else, um, no one elsewould be interested in.
But it's the way that youpresent it and if you can throw
in your own personality into thework, it really helps show
(40:23):
people who you are as adesigner.
So your work might not representyou.
As a whole, because it'srepresenting Capital One, right?
And I don't know who would wantto be Capital One as a person,
but you get to, um, if you caninject a bit of yourself into
your portfolio and kind of maybelike even poke fun a little bit
at what you're doing, it reallyshows who you are and the kind
(40:46):
of work you want to do, and youstill get to flex a little bit.
So what I always tell people is,if your portfolio is flat and
simple, Like just a squarespace, white background,
thumbnails of your projects.
If your, if your portfolio isflat and simple, then you're
flat and simple.
(41:07):
And if that is, if that's whatyou want, then by all means go
for it.
But this is a representation ofyou.
And this is like, this is yourwebsite.
And why would you want to beperceived that way?
If you want to do the kind ofwork that you want to do that
you see other people, um, doingat like agencies or, or design
(41:30):
firms that are doing like coolerwork, then, you know, show that
you could be that guy or thatgirl.
Be, be that person and you coulddo it in your about section
because the about section isyou.
Design the hell out of yourabout section.
Put just crazy shit in there,you know, but that's where you
tell your story.
And even in the projects thatyou work on, inject a little bit
(41:53):
of humor in there or like alittle bit of extra design, you
know, once these design projectsare done that you do and the
finals came out, if it's notwhat you wanted it to be, you
know, you still can change it.
Like it's your design portfolio.
It doesn't have to be whatshipped out the door.
You can do whatever you want toit.
Like put all the, all thedesigns that got killed, throw
(42:16):
them in there.
Like, but just remember.
Uh, your portfolio is you, andthe work represents you, so just
make sure to have a personalityin that portfolio.
Doug Berger (42:30):
Love it.
So good.
Thanks again for coming by.
Appreciate it.
Alex Lang (42:35):
Yeah, absolutely.
Thank you, man.
Doug Berger (42:37):
My pleasure.
And scene.
Scarlett 2i2 USB (42:42):
Thank you for tuning into our brand of
brothers interview from thevault special.
Thanks to our guest, Alex,laying in a big thank you to our
presenting sponsor remix, thebranding agency, along with
production assistance fromJohnny digs and Simon Jacobson
music by pro don't.
Forget to check usout@branchvillelive.com and
follow us on the socials atbrand show live.
Brand of brothers is coming back next
(00:01):
year.
In the meantime, here's aninterview from the vault
recorded back in October of2020, please welcome the
legendary Alex Lang previously,the director of visual
propaganda for liquid death,mountain water, and now creative
director at riot games.
Doug Berger (00:21):
Thanks for being on the show.
Would you mind giving ouraudience a brief introduction?
Alex Lang (00:27):
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, first I just want to thankyou so much for having me.
Um, yeah, this is really cool,man.
But, uh, yeah, my name's AlexLang.
Um, I live in awesome Austin,Texas.
I've been here for like threeand a half years now, but, um,
I'm an art director, designer,illustrator, um, augmented
reality creator when I feel likeit.
(00:50):
Uh, yeah, I, I previously workedin advertising for Ooh, almost
seven years and In a coupledays, I will be moving in house
to uh, liquid death as theirdirector of visual propaganda So
i'm going to be leading artdirection and design over there.
Doug Berger (01:10):
That's so awesome So let's begin with the most
complicated question.
How did you end up becoming adesigner?
So in other words When did yourealize you had a knack for
visually articulating ideas?
Alex Lang (01:27):
It kind of, um, it's funny.
I was kind of forced into it.
When I was in high school andeven in middle school, I was
always really into music and Iwas in bands.
And when you're in a band,someone's got to come up with
the logo.
Someone's got to make the shirt,the, uh, all the merch, the gig
(01:49):
posters, the MySpace page at thetime.
So someone had to do it and noneof my other band members really
wanted to.
So I kind of just picked up, atthe time it was Corel Paint
Shop, um, was my first designprogram.
Picked that up, uh, just did awhole bunch of tutorials online,
and um, yeah, I started, Istarted making gig posters for
(02:14):
my band, and then, which kind ofled to other bands.
And then, so that was kind oflike where it began, right?
And then, I was always inschool, I didn't really care
that much.
Um, I was more just about music,so I was that guy in class who
was like, scribbling deathmetal, like, really spiky logos
in his notebook, not payingattention at all.
(02:37):
And, yeah, that kind of kickstarted this design thing.
But at the time, it was morejust fun.
You know, I was in a band, um,you know, making, uh, what I
later decided was like artdirection for each band, right?
Because you kind of got to belike, well, a metal band needs
to look like this.
Like an indie rock band kind oflooks like this.
So I was kind of like preppingmyself for what was about to
(02:59):
come as a designer and artdirector and I didn't even know
it.
So I was doing a lot of that notdoing great in school, but just
good enough.
I was able to start takingclasses after high school.
But I went into computer sciencebecause I didn't realize graphic
design was a profession at thatpoint.
(03:20):
It was just something to do forfun.
So I went into computer science,um, you know Pretty much because
of making MySpace pages forbands.
I had to learn basic HTML, and,uh, that kind of led, I was
like, Oh, this is a, this couldbe a career.
And then pretty quickly Ilearned that there, it wasn't,
uh, the type of creative that Iwanted to do.
(03:42):
So,
Doug Berger (03:43):
so, So how did you make the decision between
pursuing a career in visual artversus slaying us with your
metal riffs, if you will.
Alex Lang (03:58):
You know, I tried to pull off both.
That was the goal.
Um, all through college, when Ieventually went to SCAD, uh,
Savannah College of Art andDesign in Georgia, That was the
hope.
Like, I could be in a band anddesign.
Um, some of my favoritedesigners have done that.
Um, the guitarist, Atushe Amore.
(04:19):
Um, the guitarist in Kill SwitchEngage.
Uh, these are, like, awesomedesigners who do all the work
for their own bands.
And they're also touringmusicians.
So that was kind of who I waslooking up to.
As well as, like, John Baisleyand Baroness.
Um, a huge influence and I waslike, if they could do it, I can
do it.
But what they had that I didn'thave is, uh, they were a lot
(04:40):
more talented at the music part.
Doug Berger (04:43):
But you know, but your music clearly informs your
visual aesthetic, right?
So that kind of takes us to the,the other piece, which is, so
sometimes you have to work withclients.
And you have to make someconcessions with, with regard to
(05:04):
your design aesthetic.
How do you grapple with that?
Do you still find a way toinfuse your style into an
existing brand language?
Do you just acquiesce and stickwith brand guidelines?
Like, how do you reconcile withyourself?
Alex Lang (05:17):
Yeah, it's um, I think it as designers and art
directors can all agree is whenyou're in this field and you're
working for clients now, andthey might not be the type of
clients, you know, that fit yourpersonal aesthetic.
Like, uh, for example, Forinstance, like, I worked on
Southwest Airlines for years.
(05:38):
Um, not metal at all.
Pretty much the opposite, uh,Midwest Airline.
So, what it was, um, kind ofwhat you have to do is become a
chameleon designer, where you,you should be able to pick up a
style guide or a brand guidelinefor any brand and kind of run
(05:59):
with it, right?
Once you see a guideline or, youknow, the color palette or the
fonts that they use, you know,you kind of know.
When you've been doing it forlong enough, you're like, okay,
so the CT button looks likethis.
It should go over there, youknow, and you kind of like, you
see the things you have to do inorder to make it the brand, but
(06:21):
then there's alwaysopportunities.
It doesn't matter what theclient is to, to flex your own
creative muscles.
A lot of times it doesn't work.
You got to kind of, you got to,you got to keep trying.
But what I always like to do ina, when I'm concepting or coming
up with a design for anything isgive the client what they want,
(06:44):
um, whatever it is, and thenalso give them a wild card.
You know, and that that wildcard is sometimes I would say 90
percent of the time it doesn'tgo through When when it does
it's like the most amazingfeeling because you kind of feel
like you put your personal stampon a client um and it's happened
(07:04):
with southwest airlines and Andclients like that where
sometimes you just get lucky orit's the right brief or right
project Where the wild card ideaor design, uh, it's just
something they haven't thoughtof yet You But as long as you
kind of tiptoe the edge of theirbrand guidelines and make sure
that the foundation is thereThen uh, sometimes you can get
(07:27):
away with it
Doug Berger (07:28):
and sometimes you get to shoot for the stars and
they say yeah, that's great Sothat's awesome.
Um and speaking of of companieslike southwest airlines you've
gotten to work on some ratherHigh profile shit, if you will.
Um, I think that's the technicalterm, right?
High profile shit.
Um, do you have a favoritestory?
(07:50):
Um, that you'd like to share?
And again, um, in case youhadn't figured it out.
Totally cool to drop names.
Um, only some of us will judge.
Alex Lang (08:03):
Yeah, totally man.
I gotta say it's, it wasprobably working on Pepsi
Perfect, um, when I was at theBarbarian Group in New York.
So I was really just starting myadvertising career.
I think I was like maybe twoyears into it and I was a junior
designer.
Um, and then this project came,we, Pepsi was one of our clients
(08:25):
and Pepsi does a lot of reallyrad stuff because whenever
you're number two in any, um,industry, like you have to work
extra hard, right?
You throw a lot of money intoit.
Because Coke doesn't need toflex, those aren't, they're
Coke.
They're number one, they'regoing to be number one.
But, uh, so working with Pepsi,they're, they're really down to
do crazy, crazy shit.
(08:47):
And, um, one of those was, uh,Pepsi Perfect.
So I don't know if you rememberin Back to the Future 2, There's
a scene where Marty McFly, whenhe goes to the future, he goes
into the diner and he asks for aPepsi.
And then, uh, like the, thediner counter like opens up and
this weird futuristic Pepsi popsout of the table.
(09:11):
Um, and it's a Pepsi Perfect andit, and it looks weird.
It looks like it's from thefuture.
So, on the anniversary of whenMarty McFly goes into the
future, which was like October,might be butchering this, but
like the 23rd of 2015.
Um, when he goes into the futureand gets that Pepsi, on the
(09:32):
anniversary of that day, Pepsiwas like, well, we got to do
something for the Pepsi Perfectrelease.
Which is awesome, because youdon't get clients that often who
like keep up with, you know.
Like random cool pop culturethings like that.
So they're like, what what couldwe do?
And um, I was I learned thatthis brief was happening in my
agency and I Forced myself ontoit.
(09:53):
Thanks.
They already had a team acreative team um, these this
awesome, uh duo who now are atmother, uh, claire and emily,
but uh, Like amazing creativesand they were leading it and I I
just forced them.
I was like, dude, I love back tothe future You I'm a huge nerd
for this stuff.
So, I kind of just tagged alongand one of the ideas that they
(10:18):
had was let's go to New YorkComic Con and um, that's where
we'll showcase the PepsiPerfect.
Like it's the perfect targetaudience, like people will love
it there.
So we went there and werecreated the diner, uh, from
the movie as a giant booth atComic Con.
And we had this, this, uh, Docand Marty, uh, like
(10:40):
impersonators there who didn'treally look like them at all.
But we had to use them becausethey had the DeLorean, so we
didn't really have a choice.
But it was still cool.
And, um, so we gave away all thePepsi, uh, a bunch, like 500
Pepsi Perfects that day.
Just like super fans who dressedup like a character from Back to
(11:03):
the Future.
But the thing that's stood outfor me, I got to be kind of like
the person that, yeah.
Did you get to keep one?
Yeah, I have one.
Nice.
It's somewhere.
I'll take your word for it.
But the thing that stood out,like it was an awesome
experience.
And I was kind of the guy likebehind, uh, at the booth giving
(11:25):
away the Pepsi Perfects and kindof answering any questions
anybody had, but I got, we hadcelebrities who would come to
the booth and kind of do, um,like a video spot for like IGN
and kind of, uh, you know,They're present, and they're
making content at Comic Con, andone of those person was Whoopi
Goldberg.
And for some reason, she cameright up to me and shook my hand
(11:49):
and said, This is an amazingexperience.
And I, I just owned it, and Isaid, Thanks so much.
Like, thank you.
I'm glad you like it.
I had really nothing to do withthe booth, but I got to meet
Whoopi Goldberg and shake herhand.
And that, that will never happenagain.
Doug Berger (12:05):
Dude, that's better than an AIGA medal, right?
Yeah, it's close.
So that's, that's awesome.
So, completely shifting gears.
From getting your BFA at SCADand cutting your teeth in
Savannah, to working in New YorkCity and now Austin, um, and we
(12:29):
already kind of touched on thefact that you're chillin in
Austin, even though your new gigis, is based out of California,
so that's pretty great.
Um, you have, I've been a bit ofa career gypsy, right?
So do you think it's importantto have the willingness as an
artist to uproot and startfresh?
(12:51):
And do you think that hasimpacted your perspective and
possibly your aesthetic?
And if I can stack one morequestion on top of that, what
have you learned along the wayas it relates to environments
impacting your work?
Alex Lang (13:09):
Yeah, totally man.
So when I was in Savannah, itwas really the music scene was
my biggest inspiration, right?
That's actually why I went toSCAD is my, some of my favorite
bands at the time were from,That area, uh, Kailesa,
Baroness, uh, Macedon is inAtlanta.
(13:29):
Um, and what I took from that asa designer is like metal
aesthetic, right?
And then there's also like thisweird thing that other places in
the U.
S.
or even in the world doesn'thave, which is that southern,
like, homegrown, metal, like,just gross stoner swamp metal
(13:50):
thing.
And it's, it's a whole designaesthetic to itself.
I mean, the metal genre is soexpansive and every single part
of all the sub genres at that,they all have their own
different design aesthetic.
Um, and that was like what Ireally honed in on.
And then when I moved to NewYork, um, it was, and I was
(14:12):
living in Brooklyn, in Bushwick,New York state.
That's where I started reallygetting into graffiti and street
art.
And I was like, so inspired byit.
I went to, um, you know, theArmory show in Brooklyn, saw all
the amazing artists, and then Igot huge into that.
And it started playing into mypersonal, uh, aesthetic and
(14:34):
style, where I was, I waslearning so much about these
different street artists likeTristan Eaton and, uh, Fayol.
You know, all the, all the bighitters.
And so that started affectingeverything I was doing too.
But at the same time, it'smerging with that weird, like
Southern metal style at the sametime.
(14:56):
So it's kind of just like,you're picking up influences
wherever you go and it'shappening subconsciously.
And then when you go intodesign, you're just like, whoa,
this is weird.
This is not where I was planningon going.
And then when I moved to Austin,it was.
It is a similar thing, exceptwhat I find really interesting
about Austin when I moved here,first thing I notice is how much
(15:18):
respect graphic design andbranding it has.
Everywhere you go is the mostincredible, um, this signage and
branding is off the chain.
Like, you'll see a dentist'soffice that has like this killer
logo, you know, it looks likesome grappling shoe.
You're like, how is thatpossible?
(15:40):
And it's everywhere Everybodyhas it.
Um, so I think when I moved toAustin and the emphasis they
have on design, you know Everyrestaurant has a killer menu Uh
type is signage is superimportant hand painted signs.
It kind of um You know, you pickup on all these little things.
And then when you want to startdesigning as a part of a
(16:01):
community in a new location, youknow, you kind of want to dive
into their art community theyalready have and like soak it up
like a sponge.
And, uh, that's exactly what Idid in Austin.
And, yeah, it's kind of, again,it's like an evolution of style
of picking up all these thingsfrom different places I've
lived.
(16:22):
And, uh, Yeah, just diving intothose worlds and learning as
much as you can.
Would you say it's
Doug Berger (16:28):
something that you kind of set out to do to
basically go from one place toanother?
I know that as a military brat,if I can use that term, you kind
of grew up with the idea that,you know, you were your own that
could float from wherever it isthat you needed to go.
So anywhere you went was home,right?
(16:51):
So do you think that is part ofwhat has impacted your
mentality?
Like, do you, do you feel likeyou're uprooting yourself when
you go from one place toanother?
Or, or does it just feel likeyou're immersing yourself into
just a new vibe?
Alex Lang (17:09):
Yeah, I think it's a bit of both.
It's definitely immersing and Iget honestly a little bored in a
place if I've been there forlong.
Like, when I was moving allaround when my dad was in the
military, we would live in aplace for three years max.
Like, and because of that now, Ido feel, uh, just, it just gets
(17:30):
a little bit stale, um, in manysenses, but design for sure.
Um, and it's, it's just fun tolike really immerse yourself in
different places and, uh, justexperience it.
Like even when, when I was incollege, I did a, um, A semester
abroad in Hong Kong And justbecause the opportunity arose
(17:51):
and I was like, well, I have tocheck that out totally But as as
a designer you kind of you seethese places different than
other people would right?
Like you pay attention to thedesign and why do they do the
things they do.
Even advertising, you know, whenyou think in that space, like
advertising in Asia iscompletely different.
(18:12):
Um, so yeah, it's just likesuper interesting.
I don't know if you necessarilyneed to completely uproot and
move yourself to experiencethose things, but, uh, I guess
that's just what I seem to do.
Doug Berger (18:24):
And, and do you find that as you've gone from
one place to another, that it'sUm, so I'm going to talk a
little bit about how I came upwith the idea for this project
and how it's impacted yourprocess.
In fact, actually, before I haveyou go down that path, let me
ask you this, so when you setout to work on a project, can
you talk to us about thatprocess, how you begin that
(18:45):
process, where you find yourinspiration, and like, what that
whole journey looks like, andthen, I guess the whipped cream
on top would be the, have youfound your process change as
your environments have changed?
So like, I think I just askedyou like five questions.
(19:06):
So I guess, I guess, I guess thefirst, the first question is
when you set out to work on aproject, can you talk to us
about that process?
Alex Lang (19:17):
Yeah, totally.
So my process is, uh, uh, Iguess a little bit
unconventional after I've hadmore conversations with
designers about what theirprocess is.
Um, which honestly makes mequestion what I'm doing, but it
seems to have worked out so far.
It's working.
It's
Doug Berger (19:34):
working.
Stick with what you got.
Alex Lang (19:37):
But I kind of, I jumped straight into Photoshop,
Realist Trigger.
Um, I'm, I use the, I'm socomfortable with those tools,
uh, because I don't have a, Inever had a background in
illustration or drawing.
I didn't really start, exceptfor metal logos in the notebook.
That's about it.
Doug Berger (19:57):
And are you a, are you a mouse and keyboard guy
when you're using this or areyou using a stylus?
Alex Lang (20:03):
Yeah, uh, mouse and keyboard, originally trackpad.
Wow.
Doug Berger (20:07):
Wow.
Alex Lang (20:10):
But those just became my, my sketching tools, right?
So, because I kind of grew upwith that and not drawing, I can
fly through an idea really quickin Illustrator or Photoshop.
And through doing this, Now forhowever many years, you kind of,
(20:32):
you start to learn like whatworks and what doesn't.
You don't feel the need to kindof like go down a path or an
idea, um, as far anymore downthat road because you've kind
of, you've experimented enoughover the years to kind of learn
like, okay, that's not going towork.
I can already tell that's notgoing to work.
(20:54):
Um, So you kind of startnarrowing down your options in
your head.
And so I'll just, I'll try tojust blow it out maybe to like
50 percent of what the design'sgoing to be.
Um, and I can, I can kind oftell like if it's working, if
it's not working, I know whatthe final product's eventually
(21:14):
going to look like if I keepgoing down this design idea
path.
And Um, that's usually, like,the process, which is tough
because, you know, when you workwith clients, or anybody, and
you have to deliver a design forthem, uh, they're going to want
to see sketches, right?
They're going to want to see,they don't want to see that 50
(21:35):
percent done, so, it's kind of
Doug Berger (21:37):
I never give them that.
I always give them, if it's notfinished, they're not seeing it.
So, and, and, you know, like,like you said, designers do
things differently.
Um, obviously your approach,totally different from mine,
right?
Like, I, but I also come from anolder school, right?
(21:59):
I mean, when I was in artschool, Not only did you pick up
the pencil first, you also thendid paste ups, and amberliths,
and rubyliths, and press type,right?
And, and put it on a fuckin statcamera in order to create films.
We are in a completely differentplace today, which is probably a
(22:23):
lot closer to where you startedout than where I started out,
right?
Desktop publishing was justbecoming a thing when I started.
I was starting to cut my teeth,if you will.
Um, so yeah, like with regard tohow you, you culminate your
process, right?
How, how does that journeyactually, how does that journey
(22:44):
end for you?
Alex Lang (22:47):
Yeah, so if I'm doing my own personal design, um, I
kind of through the process Ikind of do the the drapling
technique of where he'll designum, he'll, he'll do a move in
illustrator right like one movehe'll move the anchor point like
(23:07):
an inch and then he'll copy andpaste that somewhere else in
illustrator.
and then he'll do another move.
And then at that point, he haslike 20 different designs, but
every step of the way of how yougot to, um, you know, where you
end up.
And for me, it's a, I do thattechnique because it's pretty
(23:30):
interesting because you canalways go too far.
You know, as designers, we lookat, we're like, oh, this needs
to be simplified, or this is toosimple.
But when you have every step ofthe way in front of you in an
illustrator artboard, It kind ofshows you like how you got to
where you did.
And at what point did you go toofar?
Right.
(23:50):
Um, and that's kind of, you, youknow, when you did what as a
designer, you're like, does thislook good?
Or does this not look good?
And that is really like the endquestion, right?
You can always keep going.
Um, but usually I find if youjust go too far, after you've
said it's good, You're going tohave to rein it back in at some
(24:13):
point.
So that's really like theprocess of how I get to the
final stage.
But I think when you're talkingabout how, you know, we come
from different, um, you know, Idon't want to say eras, cause
that's serious, from, fromdifferent backgrounds.
I think that what always isgoing to be the same even in the
(24:35):
future for future designers isthe fundamentals, right?
It's typography color theory Andcomposition and composition is
so important And when you knowthose especially composition and
layout It stops you from makingMistakes or going too far down a
(24:55):
path like I was talking aboutbefore Then you should because
you have an understanding Ofwhat looks right and what
doesn't is something too busy oris it not busy enough?
Is the negative space working?
Is it not working?
Doug Berger (25:09):
And do you think that sensibility for you has
changed throughout the years?
Do you think that?
You know, not to harp on thisidea of you being a, uh, a
fucking career gypsy, but likefor moving from place to place
and experiencing these differentenvironments.
I mean, that's the key here.
(25:30):
It's not about the fact thatthat you've gone from one locale
to another.
It's that you have experiencedthese different.
cultures, you've experiencedthese different cities, right?
You've experienced thesedifferent aesthetics that you
find in each city.
(25:50):
I mean, it's what makes themeach new, uh, unique.
So do you find that that hasinformed how you perceive
composition, etc?
Alex Lang (26:02):
I think it does.
I think it gives you a newperspective on a design
aesthetic that you've never seenbefore, but I think across the
board, no matter where you go orthe designs you see, Like,
you'll always have compositionand it works on everything.
(26:25):
Um, I mean, of course there's atrend happening right now with
anti design or brutalist, whichcompletely throws my theory out
the window.
I think across the board thatIt'll always stay the same, you
know, there is a moment Whereit's working or it's not working
(26:45):
and all design aesthetics reallyhave that and I think it's all
grounded in composition
Doug Berger (26:51):
I totally agree, and it's so funny because I've
had conversations with peoplelike Art Chantry, who, he's a
grunge designer for lack of abetter term.
His stuff is very hand done, anduh, and I identify myself as
more of kind of in the Swisstheory.
(27:12):
And he gives me a lot of shitfor grids, and I'm like, dude,
you start with the grid and thenyou break the grid.
You even do it.
And, uh, and, and he just, heand I kind of went back and
forth on whether or not that'strue.
He's like, yeah, but I don'tdraw a fucking grid.
And I'm like, I don't either.
I mean, I could hit the buttonon my computer to show me a grid
(27:36):
and he's like, yeah, but I don'teven use a fucking computer.
And I'm like, yeah, but youknow, you still have that visual
sensibility and, and whether ornot you're playing the rule of
thirds game, you might just.
Automatically understand it andapply it.
So when you actually reach thefinish line in your design
(27:58):
journey, God, I hate using theword over and over again, but it
really is kind of this, thispath that you go down when you
end up at that final result.
So when you reach the finishline, um, what do you find is
most satisfying?
Like from client approvals, orseeing your stuff out in the
wild, um, or, or at, at ComicCon, or, uh, wherever the Pepsi
(28:23):
thing was, forgive my terriblememory, um, what aspects of your
career make you want tocelebrate?
Alex Lang (28:32):
Yeah, it's, for me, I really got the first
gratification of what I wasdoing, um, was cool or slightly
impactful.
Um, it comes in different, indifferent ways, depending on
what I'm working on.
For a lot of the band work thatI do, Or just, uh, music,
(28:56):
posters, that kind of thing.
It's when I see someone wearingthe shirt, right?
It's like, I'll, whenever I domerch, I'll just stand by the
merch table.
And I'll just watch and see whatpeople are buying.
And when they buy that shirt,that's like the moment, right?
Or, or when I go to the show thenext week and someone showed up
(29:16):
in that shirt.
That's, like, that's the best.
And when it comes to like, uh,you know, advertising work, uh,
client work, I think it's whenyou see it out in the wild.
Um, it's, it's kind of harder toget that personal, you know, um,
appreciation when you seesomebody interacting with it.
(29:39):
That's why a lot of the workthat I, uh, like to do is, you
know, augmented reality, becauseyou see people messing around
with it and then they'll post iton Instagram or Facebook or
wherever.
you kind of get that, uh,they're sharing the thing that
you made.
You know, it's kind of the samereaction as when you see someone
in the shirt, right?
Um, but yeah, I think it reallydepends on the work because I
(30:04):
don't think we're ever going toget gratified when we make like
a banner, right?
You don't see the banner out inthe real world.
You don't get excited whenyou're making it.
Doug Berger (30:13):
Wait, you don't get excited when you see a web
banner that you designed?
I don't even see web banners.
Alex Lang (30:21):
I absolutely have the ad blogger.
Yeah, it's too funny.
With client, with client work,it's a little different, but,
uh, you can still be gratified.
I mean, I remember the firsttime.
Not to name drop, um, but thefirst time I saw Something I did
and out of home was for thePepsi Perfect thing um when it
(30:45):
was in New York and Justplastered huge on the wall and I
did the same thing.
I do when i'm at the at the showWhere I just stand by the wall
that it's plastered on like 14feet Uh, and i'll just watch
people like walk by and look atit And sometimes you get people
will stop and take a photo YouYou know, so, yeah, it's, I
(31:07):
think that's really the momentwhen you see the person
interact.
You don't get to see it everytime, but when you do, it's
pretty special.
Doug Berger (31:14):
Cool.
So, Obviously that's gonnachange a little bit with your
new role, right?
So now you're moving into a newrole, which I, I really would
love for, for you to, to tell mea little bit more about um,
what, what that actuallyentails.
Um, but so instead of getting tointeract with an array of
(31:38):
brands, you are gonna be likethe in house guy that kind of
guides things along from, from abrand experience perspective.
And so as it relates to processand where you find fulfillment
as a designer, what do youexpect to change?
And, well, what do you expect tobe the same?
Alex Lang (32:02):
Yeah, it's, it's hard to answer because I have no idea
really what I'm jumping into.
I have a sense.
But it's, I've never worked inhouse before.
Um, I've never worked on justone client.
But, I think what's differentabout Liquid Death is that I am
(32:23):
so completely aligned with thisbrand.
Doug Berger (32:25):
Yeah, you are.
It's so perfect.
Alex Lang (32:30):
It's everything that I, I didn't know that those
illustrations, those death metallogos, were going to come to
anything when I was drawing themas a kid.
And now, like, a weird freakbrand has randomly shown up over
the couple years that is, isexactly what I want to do, and
(32:53):
It honestly feels like a brandthat I could have started
myself.
And
Doug Berger (32:57):
so
Alex Lang (32:58):
really quickly,
Doug Berger (32:59):
really quickly, if I can, I just want to diverge
just a tiny bit to tell ourlisteners about Liquid Death.
So, um, so If I, if I, I, Ithink it was, uh, Bogusky who,
who said it actually best, thatbasically what you would see are
(33:20):
these ex gamers drinking fromMonster and drinking from Red
Bull and all these other energydrinks, but there wasn't
actually an energy drink inthere, it was actually water.
And so, It made complete andtotal sense to just flip water
on its head.
(33:40):
First off, water primarily comesin these, you know, one time
use, single use plastics, whichare obviously terrible for the
environment, whereas aluminumcans are predominantly recycled,
like it is one of the mostrecyclable, uh, things that you
can basically package thesedays.
And so, that's what Liquid Deathis.
(34:03):
It's basically this, like, deathmetal, brand, uh, in terms of
aesthetic that contains the mostpristine spring water you can
get, right?
And of course, being in a can,it is as earth friendly as it
gets next to actually stickingyour head in spring water.
(34:26):
Okay, so I just wanted to makesure that our listeners know
that what we're talking isspring water and The way it's
packaged.
It's it is so perfect for thatex gamer mentality where Fuck
these energy drinks.
They're drinking water.
Let's not let's just tell themthe truth.
(34:48):
And of course If there was everan extreme, uh drink It's water,
right?
Like, when was the last time youheard of someone drowning in
monster energy drink?
It's just not something thathappens.
That's perfect, man.
Alright, so tell me more aboutthe role and how you expect to
(35:13):
find fulfillment.
Alex Lang (35:16):
Yeah, totally.
It's um, Yeah, so I'm coming in,um, I'm just going to be like
the art direction design lead,right?
And they already do amazingstuff, like with that.
So I'm coming into a brand thatis very much established itself,
um, in terms of their aesthetic,um, what they're doing.
(35:38):
Their target audience, uh, youname it and they're really a an
e commerce first brand as wellSo they're very much in aligned
with you know internet cultureAnd I think the biggest thing
that they go for there is humor.
Like it it has to be funny.
We're dealing with Everybody whoworks there, I guess now
(35:59):
including myself is exadvertising guys And we've all
been there where we can't do thecool idea Right with the client,
um, you want to do that crazyshit that you came up with when
you're like really high And thenyou know you go to present it
and you just get blank staresBut, you know, in your heart, it
(36:20):
would be super cool if itwasn't, you know, some weird
thing you were doing forSouthwest Airlines or some,
like, Capital One, you know?
And, so what's great aboutLiquid Death is that the guys
who made it are all thosepeople.
They're all the ones who havethose just insane ideas during
(36:41):
the meetings.
It just gets shot down andeveryone's like, what are you
doing, dude?
just deliver the tv spot.
And
Doug Berger (36:48):
so they're taking Is the CEO like a former
creative director too?
Alex Lang (36:53):
Yeah, yeah, he was at um, he's been in a bunch of
places.
Um, last, what he was doing wasat Donor in LA, uh, working on
Netflix.
So he did a bunch of like thestranger things promos when uh,
when that show first came out Sohe's doing a lot of stuff like
that.
And um Yeah, it's I mean, thisis a brand that is rooted In
(37:17):
ridiculousness like the productitself is ridiculous.
But when you actually like thinkabout the messaging And the
mission behind it.
It's there's There's so muchtruth to it, you know and When
when you're advertising guys andyou're like we can do anything
because this is our brand we arethe client Like just really
(37:38):
special things happen.
So I definitely encourage allthe listeners to go check out
the spots that they've created.
Um, it's mind boggling there.
It involves waterboarding.
It has, um, there's a spot thatwas animated by, um, the guy who
did Mr.
Pickles where we have like a, amuscular, like Undertaker style
(37:59):
guy with a can for a head.
He's like cutting people's headsoff.
Um, it's really
Doug Berger (38:04):
balls to the wall.
Yeah.
I mean, first off, the, the,the, the live action one was
just spectacularly hilarious.
It basically takes the, theorbits gum concept, elevates it
and flips it on its head.
And then the, the, the cartoonone is.
(38:27):
Holy, holy crap.
It's incredibly, um, alarming.
And, uh, and, and you're justlike, wow, that's, that's
intense stuff.
Um, but I gotta say, thank youso much.
You're awesome.
This was awesome.
And, um, do you have any partingwords or mystical words of
(38:49):
wisdom you care to impart to ourlisteners?
Alex Lang (38:52):
Yeah, man, it's so I was thinking about this earlier
and how like liquid depth kindof came about and how I got on
their radar, as well as a coupleother agencies I've worked for
in the past is the work isdefinitely a big part of it.
Like what you're doing.
And of course, like, you know,the, the word no one wants to
(39:15):
hear side hustles.
It's a thing, you know, it'shard to have side hustle when
you're working those 70 hourweeks, but you know, sometimes
you need a release to go do, um,your own thing and not work on,
you know, a client.
But the biggest thing that Ifound, um, that really grabs
people's attention And get somegoing is um, that opens you up
(39:39):
to like cooler work, you knowLike i've been that guy who was
just sitting working on capitalone southwest airlines Um, you
know these pretty monotonousbrands where their style guides
are like, you know to a tee It'sit's so strict and What I found
that really like opens you up togive you different opportunities
(40:01):
is your portfolio and the wayyou present the work.
Um, for the longest time I hadreally just whack work in there
that I wasn't interested in.
No one else, um, no one elsewould be interested in.
But it's the way that youpresent it and if you can throw
in your own personality into thework, it really helps show
(40:23):
people who you are as adesigner.
So your work might not representyou.
As a whole, because it'srepresenting Capital One, right?
And I don't know who would wantto be Capital One as a person,
but you get to, um, if you caninject a bit of yourself into
your portfolio and kind of maybelike even poke fun a little bit
at what you're doing, it reallyshows who you are and the kind
(40:46):
of work you want to do, and youstill get to flex a little bit.
So what I always tell people is,if your portfolio is flat and
simple, Like just a squarespace, white background,
thumbnails of your projects.
If your, if your portfolio isflat and simple, then you're
flat and simple.
(41:07):
And if that is, if that's whatyou want, then by all means go
for it.
But this is a representation ofyou.
And this is like, this is yourwebsite.
And why would you want to beperceived that way?
If you want to do the kind ofwork that you want to do that
you see other people, um, doingat like agencies or, or design
(41:30):
firms that are doing like coolerwork, then, you know, show that
you could be that guy or thatgirl.
Be, be that person and you coulddo it in your about section
because the about section isyou.
Design the hell out of yourabout section.
Put just crazy shit in there,you know, but that's where you
tell your story.
And even in the projects thatyou work on, inject a little bit
(41:53):
of humor in there or like alittle bit of extra design, you
know, once these design projectsare done that you do and the
finals came out, if it's notwhat you wanted it to be, you
know, you still can change it.
Like it's your design portfolio.
It doesn't have to be whatshipped out the door.
You can do whatever you want toit.
Like put all the, all thedesigns that got killed, throw
(42:16):
them in there.
Like, but just remember.
Uh, your portfolio is you, andthe work represents you, so just
make sure to have a personalityin that portfolio.
Doug Berger (42:30):
Love it.
So good.
Thanks again for coming by.
Appreciate it.
Alex Lang (42:35):
Yeah, absolutely.
Thank you, man.
Doug Berger (42:37):
My pleasure.
And scene.
Scarlett 2i2 USB (42:42):
Thank you for tuning into our brand of
brothers interview from thevault special.
Thanks to our guest, Alex,laying in a big thank you to our
presenting sponsor remix, thebranding agency, along with
production assistance fromJohnny digs and Simon Jacobson
music by pro don't.
Forget to check usout@branchvillelive.com and
follow us on the socials atbrand show live.
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