Typography in Branding

🎙️ Typography Talks: Fonts, Faces, and Brand Identity | Brand of Brothers

Welcome to another episode of Brand of Brothers with Doug Berger and Johnny Diggz, where we’re peeling back the layers of typography and how the right font choices can shape your brand’s voice, personality, and perception. From Helvetica to papyrus (yes, we’re going there), this episode explores the art, history, and strategy behind type.

🔥 In this episode:

• What typography actually is and how it differs from fonts
 • The history of type from Roman engravings to today’s digital families
 • Serif, sans serif, decorative, handwritten—why it’s more than just two categories
 • How fonts communicate tone and emotion (and why Comic Sans has a time and place)
 • The difference between licensed and open-source fonts, and when to use each
 • The rise of “blanding” and why luxury brands are going minimalist with type
 • Legibility, readability, and the science behind font selection for design and memes alike
 • Tips for balancing contrast, weight, kerning, and spacing in your typography
 • Case studies: when font choices go right, and when they go hilariously wrong

💡 Whether you’re a designer picking brand assets, a marketer crafting campaigns, or just someone who can’t stand Times New Roman, this episode will give you a fresh perspective on how type shapes every message.

🎧 Listen now to learn how to:

• Choose fonts that align with tone and audience expectations
 • Balance beauty with readability in branding and digital content
 • Avoid common pitfalls that make typography feel off or inaccessible
 • Use fonts strategically to differentiate your brand in a world of sameness

Presented by Remixed, the full-service branding agency that helps companies craft, launch, and grow brands that convert.

🎶 Music by PRO.
 📍 Find us at BrandShowLive.com
 📱 Follow us: @BrandShowLive on all socials
 👍 Like, share, and subscribe so you never miss an episode packed with insights

Episode Transcript

Doug Berger (00:00):
Welcome to the latest installment of Brand of
Brothers.
I'm Doug.

Johnny Diggz (00:02):
And I'm Johnny.
Today we're talking abouttypography in branding.

Doug Berger (00:06):
All right, let's get to it.

Johnny Diggz (00:17):
Typography.
Typography.
Typography.
I call that fonts.
What's the difference?
Anything?

Doug Berger (00:22):
Yeah, there's a little bit of a, a different
difference.
So typography is really thestudy of, and the creation of,
whereas fonts are kind of theresults.
Of, okay, so fonts are what youthink of when you think of
Helvetica True.
Or you think of, uh, times NewRoman and you shouldn't be

(00:44):
thinking of times New Roman.
But in case you do, uh, you'rethinking of that as a font.
We generally refer to it as atype face.
Um.
The, the difference is, isvirtually nil.
Okay?
A font is a specific weight,whereas a typeface is a family.
So Helvetica Bold is a font.

(01:05):
Helvetica Narrow is a font, butthey're all part of the
Helvetica typeface family.
Okay?
And so typography.
Is the creation of said fonts.
And so these fonts were createdfor numerous reasons.

Johnny Diggz (01:21):
So these go back, I assume, to printing press
days, right?
Earliest?
Absolutely.
Yeah.

Doug Berger (01:26):
And, and before, right?
Oh, I guess they did havehandwritten fonts.
They etched them.
Uh, okay.
Which is where you find Roman,right?
That whole Roman concept is fromthe engravings and etchings of
Roman.
Type.

Johnny Diggz (01:42):
Okay.
Times New Roman is a evolutionof, of it.
It certainly, it certainly

Doug Berger (01:48):
was one of those things.
And then you also have othertype faces like Trajan, which
come from that kind of era.
They, they are derivative.

Johnny Diggz (01:56):
Okay.
So, and

Doug Berger (01:57):
every modern font today is derivative.
Okay.

Johnny Diggz (02:01):
And my understanding is because I is
that there are basically two.
Two kind of families gr likemaster families.
I got the, the RIF and the SANSrif.

Doug Berger (02:14):
It, it goes a little bit more vast than that.
Oh, okay.
So you also have your decorativefonts.
You have your handwritten fonts.
You have Okay.
Numerous categories of fonts.
Oh, so

Johnny Diggz (02:23):
it's just, it's it's beyond just RIF and rif.

Doug Berger (02:27):
Correct.
Okay.
And, and so it also gets alittle bit convoluted as you
dive into this, right.
So a RIF are the littleembellishments.
That you find at the end of aletter.
Uh, for, for example, when youlook at the, the letter L, when
it's a lowercase l that's SamSerif.
It is simply a vertical bar.

(02:49):
Right.
Looks like a

Johnny Diggz (02:50):
one

Doug Berger (02:50):
almost.
Yeah.
Or, or a a, uh, a capital I,right, right.
Without the little sticks.
Right?
Sure.
And the little sticks don'tnecessarily mean that those are
tariffs.
Rifs, um.
How, how can I explain it moresimply?
So when you ha actually, whenyou have those little sticks
that stick out from thatvertical bar, then those are

(03:12):
your rifs.
Rifs can be slab, which is whenthey are, uh, vertical and
horizontal lines like the shapeof the letter itself or if
they're tapered.
And that's what you wouldgenerally identify as a typical
C.

Johnny Diggz (03:28):
So you'll see those like the times New Roman
that has like sort of the.
Almost like wedges at the edgeedges.

Doug Berger (03:35):
Sure.
Wedges at the edges.
Absolutely.
That's what, that's what serifsare.
Wedges at the edges.
I like it.
Um, but I don't like uscontinuing to talk about times
New Roman, can you pick adifferent one?
Like papyrus?
Everyone loves papyrus.

Johnny Diggz (03:49):
I love the, um, there is SNL, uh, sketch with I
think, uh, um, I can't think ofthe guy's name, but, um.
Where they talk about papyrus aslike the font for Yes.
As the font for avatar.
Avatar, right?

Doug Berger (04:03):
Yes.
So, uh, and, and the funny thingis that, uh, not too long ago,
there was a second SNL sketchwhen Avatar two came out.
And the nightmare was that theycontinued to use papyrus, but it
went from papyrus, regular topapyrus, bold.
And uh, and so the whole sketchis about this nightmare of using

(04:24):
papyrus and the, uh, the actual,uh, typographer, the guy who
created.
The papyrus font.
Um, he was interviewed aboutthis, and of course, he didn't
know that it was being useduntil we knew that papyrus was
being used.
And of course, it was notcreated to be a title font for a
a feature length motion picture.

Johnny Diggz (04:44):
What, okay, one last question before we move on
to the implementation of thesethings.
Um, you mentioned a typographer,that's somebody who makes fonts
for, uh, fun and profit.

Doug Berger (04:57):
Uh, it, yes.
Okay.
I, I think the, the long andshort of it is yes, a
typographer, it not necessarilyeveryone who creates a font.
Can be classified as atypographer.
Um, it is definitely a skilledtrade.
Um, but there are people who doit as hobby, who do it for fun
and uh, but there are foundries,type foundries that create fonts

(05:22):
or commission fonts to be made.

Johnny Diggz (05:24):
Okay.
Because I've seen those likewebsites where it's like you can
get free fonts.
And are those like all opensource or like.
Like, so they're like, seem likesome of'em are copies of maybe
copyrighted fonts and

Doug Berger (05:38):
Yeah, they, they're, they're definitely,
like I had said.
All fonts are derivative, um,in, in one, one, uh, way or
another.
So you do have licensed fonts,right?
And you have open source fonts.
So licensed fonts you might bepaying for, uh, from Adobe or,
uh, or typography.com, which Ibelieve is, uh, John.

(06:00):
What's his name?
Heffer's Jonathan Heffer's, uh,company.
Uh, they're the ones who createdfonts like Gotham, and so Gotham
is derivative of Helvetica, butHelvetica is derivative of new
House grotesque, and it keepsgoing back further and further.
And so when we're talking about.
Licensed fonts versus opensource fonts.

(06:22):
Then you have open source fonts,like what you can find on Google
fonts, for example, where youcan download those fonts for
free.
There are no licensingrestrictions, whereas a licensed
font is either licensed by a.
The desk or the computer thatit's on, um, or it's by the
company for usage or it's byactual application.

(06:43):
So there are some licenses thatare incredibly narrow in scope,
but open source is the completeopposite.
You're free to use it.
As you please, um, no questionsasked.
And, uh, so you can get someamazing, beautiful, uh, type
faces out there.
Uh, for example, I justmentioned Gotham.
That was done by, uh, by, uh,Batman, by by, uh, Heffler and

(07:07):
Frey Jones.
Um, so Vet Duo created Gothamand then there was a subsequent
font that's rather derivative.
It's pretty uncanny how similarthey are called Montserrat.

Speaker 3 (07:19):
Mm.

Doug Berger (07:20):
And so, uh, it, it has a, a very similar
appearance, similar aesthetic,except the difference here is
that it's open source and freeto use for anyone.

Johnny Diggz (07:29):
So when you're talking with a client and you're
looking at their brand, how, howdo you get, how do you choose,
say, this is a good font foryou.
Um, like how do you get to that?
Yeah, that's a great question.

Doug Berger (07:41):
So, the very beginning of the process, of
course, begins with puttingtogether the messaging brands
scape that messaging brandsscape helps us to identify a, a
litany of points.
I believe we had a show about itpreviously, so I'm not gonna
dive too far into it.
Um, but one of the keycomponents that comes out of a
messaging BrainScape is tone.
Um.

(08:03):
Different people like to havedifferent numbers of tonal words
that help to identify, uh, whatthe, the emotional connection is
from a brand to its audiences.
So those words might beaccessible, those words might be

(08:24):
luxurious.
So when you have those twocomponents, so you're not gonna
have.
Luxurious and accessible in thesame brand.

Johnny Diggz (08:34):
That would be a really interesting brand.
Yeah.
Uh,

Doug Berger (08:36):
well, I mean, we have plenty of, uh, of, of
contradictory things, right?
Sure, sure.
Like military intelligence.
How does that work?
Um, so anyhow, terrible oldjoke, but I'm here for it.
Uh, jumbo

Johnny Diggz (08:48):
shrimp.

Doug Berger (08:48):
Exactly right.
So when it comes toaccessibility, it makes sense
that you would also use an opensourced font, right?
And then when it comes toluxury, it would make sense that
you use a licensed font.
However, what we're seeing,current trend, current trend,

(09:09):
when I say current trend, I meanthe last 2, 3, 4 years in design
is what many designers refer toas Blanding.
As opposed to branding.
And so we're seeing a lot ofcompanies that are, are higher
end companies, right?
Moving away from theirdecorative type faces or their,

(09:32):
their, uh, custom crif fontsinto more of a San Serif
direction, and a lot of themactually toward Helvetica.

Johnny Diggz (09:40):
The, um, I guess the most recent of those that
was a bit, uh, controversialwas, uh, cracker Barrel.
Oh

Doug Berger (09:47):
my gosh.
Well, I, I guess that one justcame and went, didn't it?
Okay.
Well, I mean, we

Johnny Diggz (09:52):
hardly knew.
You knew Cracker Barrel,

Doug Berger (09:54):
and that's what, and, and that's what happens
when you just design by feelingand don't leverage data.
Right?
They could have resolved thisentire.
Debacle by having engaged theiraudience.
Right?
Right.
It would not have beencomplicated for them to have

(10:14):
sourced a, a number of ofcustomers to get their feedback
right before they experiencedsuch backlash, but.
Again, back to typography andbranding.
I don't think, I don't thinkthat what they presented, it's
what needed to touch

Johnny Diggz (10:29):
on that Blanding episode that just happened.
But I,

Doug Berger (10:31):
but see, I don't think that it was a mistake
where they went with it.
It, it almost felt like theyrefined the typeface that they
had as opposed to through awayall of the heritage that they
had.
The complication is that theygot rid of the character.
Right, right.
They got rid of that mascot andthey got rid of that bean shape
or whatever it is, right.
That they put their logo in.

(10:52):
There were so many opportunitiesto have been leveraged, to have
turned it into somethingamazing.
The problem is that it was sooversimplified in presentation
and that they neglected toeducate their audiences, but I
don't think that.
It was a lesson in what not todo for visual representation.

(11:14):
I think it's a a, a what not todo from a public perception, uh,
point of view because a, anytimewe reposition a brand, we wanna
educate our audiences that thisis coming, right?
And we want them to understandwhy it's coming.
So how do you do

Johnny Diggz (11:29):
that?

Doug Berger (11:30):
So they're, they're.
I, I, there are many launchYeah.
Components.
I, I think that we might wannasave for another episode.
Sure, sure.
Um, but just to briefly touch onit, uh, it.
It, it comes in a multiple, uh,multiple set of ways, right?
So first is, uh, maybe you havean email campaign that you send
out to your existing customers.

(11:51):
Um, you also put something alittle teaser, uh, on your
website.
So maybe there's a banner thatsays, new look coming soon.
Get a sneak preview and, and youcan build up to that.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and then of course, uh,there's media relations.
To help roll that out dependingupon the size of the company,
and there's direct marketingthat you can do as well.

Johnny Diggz (12:11):
Yeah.
It did seem like that particularone with the Cracker Barrel
brand, uh, it seemed to hiteverybody from out of the blue,
like it seemed like peopleweren't expecting that.

Doug Berger (12:22):
Yeah, and and I think the same thing kind of
happened with Jaguar, exceptJaguar told us it was coming.
Right.
The issue is that the way thatit was embraced.
Was was terrible.
Right.
It, it felt very out of touch.
Right.
Um, and, and that's theimportance when you are creating
a brand, is that in specificallytypography, right?

(12:44):
Is that it needs to feel like itis corresponding to your
audience expectations.
So if you are selling a luxuryproduct and you present it.
In a fashion that feels like,um, you know, uh, 1990s web

(13:06):
design, uh, where it's superbusy and it is using, um, like
courier, that typewriter font,right?
Um, that, that lackssophistication and edge.
Your audience is gonna beconfused by it, right?
There's a particular set ofaesthetics that go with luxury,
whereas.

(13:27):
When you're, you're dealing withthings that are a little bit
more accessible.
It, it can be a little bit morefun, it can be a little bit more
loose, it can be a little bitmore irreverent.

Johnny Diggz (13:37):
It makes me think of like the, the early, the
early Twitter logos and.
Um, like their distinctive sortof fat rounded fonts that, that
looks right.
That, that felt, it almost drovean entire design change across
the internet.

Doug Berger (13:53):
Right?
Yeah.
It, it, it had that, it, italso, um, had that three
dimensional aspect to it, right?
It looked like it could havebeen rendered in, in some sort
of 3D program.
Um, yeah.
And it was kind of a bubblefont.
Mm-hmm.
It was a samsara font withrounded edges.
Um, kind of like.
Helvetica round.
Um, and, uh, it, it had strokeon it.

(14:15):
It was a heavier weight.
It felt fun.
It felt accessible.
It didn't feel threatening.
Right.
It felt available.
And, and it felt like what youwanted social media to feel
like.

Johnny Diggz (14:27):
Right?
Right.
So, um, I know that there aresome, uh, sort of.
Almost me comical meme, fonts.
I mean, I, I say comical like,like ka copari or comic sands.
Yeah.
Who people joke about, uh, likeit's sort of a, almost a, a, a
newbie mistake making a flyerand only using comic sands or,

(14:51):
or typing a professional emailand choosing that font, right?

Doug Berger (14:54):
Yeah, for sure.
And, and it's because fontsconvey tone, right?
Whether you are looking at atypeface and understanding.
What tone it conveys or not.
There's value, and even when itcomes to comic sands, and this
is a hot take, comic sands.
Sucks, generally speaking, butit has a time and a place,

(15:18):
right?
So when it comes to education,for example, it is a fantastic
typeface, not because of it, itsaesthetic, although it does feel
very accessible, it doesn't feellike, uh, its super
authoritative.
So for younger children anddyslexics, right, there is, uh,
scientific data.

(15:39):
That backs the, the usage of,um, of comic sands for people
that have, uh, difficultiesreading specifically, uh, with
dyslexia.
Interesting.

Johnny Diggz (15:53):
So, um, but it's, it still

Doug Berger (15:55):
sucks and I would never

Johnny Diggz (15:57):
use it, but, um, but I guess what you're saying
is that there's a time and aplace for different, you know,
that even, even papyrus, evenpapyrus, even

Doug Berger (16:05):
curls.
Has a time and a place again,would I choose curls?
Probably not.
Mm-hmm.
I think there are moresophisticated versions of it,
but can it be kind of fun to useas an initial letter on a
child's backpack?
Right.
Sure.

Johnny Diggz (16:26):
That could be fun, right?
The, um, I guess, uh, in, inthis discussion, um,
capitalization matters toobecause if you.
You know, I was just thinkingabout typing a professional
email in choosing a comic sandsfont, also typing one that's in
all caps, or, you know, amessage that's in all caps,

(16:49):
right.
Gets received a certain wayversus something that is, you
know, capitalized correctly.
Or even something that is justlowercase and doesn't, uses no

Doug Berger (16:58):
punctuation.
Yeah, like, like Twitter forexample, was all lowercase
originally.
And then you have other brandslike, uh, brand of brothers
that, uh, is in all caps.
Yeah.
And then there's the playingwith weights.
So you have typefaces and youwant to make sure that they are
complimentary and that they'reapplied correctly and uniformly.

(17:22):
Right.
So when it comes to typefaces,you want to have contrast.
And you also want to havecompliment.
So there are crif type facesthat have complimenting San Crif
type faces and vice versa.
And there are even decorativetype faces, like script or
handwritten type faces that canwork in harmony with the San

(17:46):
Crif and the crif type faces.
And when tone calls for it, youmight want all three.
However, you might also havedistinguishing characteristics
like maybe are.
Brand fonts also encompassdifferent weights.
And so not only do we have ouropen source fonts, we also have

(18:06):
variable weight fonts.
And so variable weight fontsare, are just absolutely
incredible in terms of diversityin what they can present.
Um, they're not.
Completely ubiquitous when itcomes to, uh, desktop publishing
using, uh, uh, things likeMicrosoft Word.
However, when you're using AdobeInDesign, for example, uh, you

(18:27):
can adjust the, the variableweights, the, whether it's bold,
semi bold, or even in between.

Johnny Diggz (18:34):
So, oh, I get you.
So you can actually, instead ofhaving like five different
options where you've got narrow.
Uh, you know, semi narrow,regular.
Bold, you know, semi bold, bold,

Doug Berger (18:50):
something to that effect.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So basically most of, yeah,

Johnny Diggz (18:53):
I, that's what I see.
Anyway,

Doug Berger (18:54):
so it, it just a, a really quick correction.
So you'll have narrow, you'llhave regular, and you'll have
extended, um, and then you'llhave the weights.
So your weights are gonna belight, thin, regular, medium,
bold, semi bold, heavy black.
Right, right.
There are, those are your, yourvarying weights.
And what's really cool is thatyou can granularly shift from

(19:18):
between one of those in towardanother without going all the
way toward them.
So if a weight.
It's too heavy or too light.
You can just make a slightadjustment and get it.
So it's perfect.
It's the Goldilocks of fonts

Johnny Diggz (19:33):
something.
Um, I, I do a lot of memeing.
I like to make my own littlememes, specifically Seinfeld
memes, so, you know, but, uh,one thing that, uh, I use this
little tool that is like, justbasically a little graphic edit
or a little, uh, image editorspecifically for memes and.

(19:53):
Canva, it's called, it's called,uh, memento.
Cool.
And, uh, is it free?
Uh, yeah, I think it is.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Great.
I think so.
Um, I think there's a paidversion and a free version.
I don't remember.
And, and

Doug Berger (20:07):
are we sponsored by either of Canva or Memento?
No, no, no.
But

Johnny Diggz (20:10):
we'd like to be, um, the, uh, anyway, one of the
things that I have difficultywith is, uh, readability of my
caption right underneath, andusually it's over top, uh,
especially if it's dialogue.
Um, and so I play with thingslike, uh, shadow and stroke and

(20:32):
these, but I, I, I, as adesigner, I, I am

Doug Berger (20:36):
hurting a

Johnny Diggz (20:37):
little bit inside, but I'm listening.
So, but all with the goal ofmaking it more readable.
Um, and I wondered if you couldtalk a little bit about the, the
typography choice.
And, and legibility and thatand, and how

Doug Berger (20:55):
that, how that works.
So when it comes to legibility,there's no question that it's
easier to read something that isbold and large and lacks
decoration, right?
When it is a utility font, likeHelvetica, for example,
Helvetica Bold is going togenerally be incredibly legible

(21:16):
even when it has a reducedtracking.
And for those listening who areunfamiliar, tracking is the
spacing between all of theletters and words.
Mm-hmm.
Whereas you have kerning, whichis your individual spacing
between letters.
So, um, back to legibility.
So.

(21:37):
When it comes to legibility, youhave to have contrast.
That's really what it comes downto.
So can you have a thin sansserif type face be legible?
Absolutely.
So long as there's sufficientcontrast and margin, right?
Giving enough breathing space.

(21:58):
For those words to be read isimperative.
So ideally what you have is aweight that is both.
Beefy enough to be red, but alsothin enough that it matches your
aesthetic, right?
Unless your aesthetic is big andbold, you don't want to be

(22:21):
showing, uh, Gotham Black, forexample, when your typeface is
really supposed to be GothamThin.
So how do you fix that?
You can resolve it a number ofways.
Uh, you can.
Make it so it's not overlayingan image.
You can make it so there is acover over a color overlaying
the image, and then uh, you havea complimentary color on top.

(22:44):
And to be specific about thiscomplimentary color.
You have to be super carefulbecause complimentary colors
also cre create vibration.
So I'm talking about white onblack, for example.
That's not gonna create as muchcolor vibration as you'd get if
you put yellow on purple.
So don't put yellow on purple.
Put white.

(23:04):
On purple or make the purpledarker, make the yellow the
same, make the yellow lighter,right?
You can use varying effects.

Johnny Diggz (23:12):
What if you're celebrating

Doug Berger (23:13):
Mardi

Johnny Diggz (23:13):
Gras and you really want yellow on purple?

Doug Berger (23:15):
So, and, and you know what?
That's an opportunity to use astroke or to use an outer glow,
but do it sparingly.
Make it make sense.
Don't do it.
As a hack, do it where it isintentional and that it's
thoughtful.
So,

Johnny Diggz (23:34):
um, wrapping up, I I, oh no, I'm having so much
fun.
I know.
We could go, we could literallytalk for hours about phones.
We could, and I mean,

Doug Berger (23:44):
we can start with the a's.
Right.
And I know your favorite font isAriel, right?
Of course.

Johnny Diggz (23:49):
Ariel.
Ariel.
Bold.
Aerial narrow.
Are you sure

Doug Berger (23:54):
it's your, wait, you mentioned memes.
Are you sure it's not impact?
It's your

Johnny Diggz (23:57):
favorite impact.
Seems to be the default in, inthe MEMEING world.
Uh, for better or worse.
I don't, it's worse and it'susually all caps.

Doug Berger (24:06):
So, and again, it has to do with legibility.
If you look at those memes, it'simpact, which is this.
Narrow font and which the, thepurpose is twofold.
One is legibility, and two isbeing able to cram as many words
into that space as possible.
Right?
But then you'll notice thatusually these memes have white.

(24:27):
F uh, fonts, right?
Yep.
So it's impact in white.

Johnny Diggz (24:30):
Yeah.

Doug Berger (24:30):
And it has a blackout outline.
Yeah.
And, and those two together,while really discordant
definitely makes it legible.

Johnny Diggz (24:39):
Right.
So because you're going for likeboom impact.
Understood.
Yeah.

Doug Berger (24:43):
But is there happy medium?
That doesn't use a craptasticfont like impact 100%.
So really what it comes down to,just a, a quick recap.
So, um, when choosing a font.
As it relates to a brand, itshould be reflective of tone,
right?
Um, and it should also be, um,it should have complementarity,

(25:09):
right?
It should basically speak tocolor schemes and imagery and
make sure that everything is.
It's complimenting each other.
And then we just, we've beentalking about legibility, right?
That comes down to, uh,different weights, different
sizes, making sure that peoplecan, can see what you're

(25:30):
putting.
Contrast, contrast is, isanother component.
Uh, proper spacing, line height,right?
All of these feed intocapitalization and, and title
case and lowercase.
All of that feeds into how youconvey your brand.
Through typography.

Johnny Diggz (25:47):
Has there been any, um, like looking back,
remix has been around for almost20 years now, and you've been
doing this longer than remix hasbeen around just a little.
Yeah.
And, uh, any, any, uh, time inyour, uh, past where, uh, good
or bad, um, where, uh, A choicewas made and it proved to be?

(26:12):
Particularly surprisingly goodor surprisingly bad.
Wow.
Um, I would

Doug Berger (26:18):
say that generally speaking, um, we've had.
Expected results.
The, the times where it wasunexpected were actually in the
design process where we putthings in front of focus groups
and we would put out a throwawaydesign.

Johnny Diggz (26:38):
Oh.
And they liked that one.
And

Doug Berger (26:39):
that was the one that won.
And what do you do in that case?
You, you do your case studyagain to make sure the data's
consistent.
Okay.
So at, at the end of the day,they, they, the, the only time
where we've selected a fontwhere we've been surprised is
when we've saw the data andwe're like, we don't like the

(27:00):
data.

Johnny Diggz (27:02):
Well, I like the data that says, this is the end
of our show.
So thanks for joining us today.
Nice segue.

Doug Berger (27:09):
Thank you for tuning in to Brand of Brothers.
Big thank you to our presentingsponsor, Remixed, the branding
agency, along with productionassistance from Johnny Diggz,
Simon Jacobsohn, and me, DougBerger.
We can't forget music by PRO.
Speaking of not forgetting,remember to do that like and
subscribe thing and find us atBrandShowLive.
com and follow us on the socialsat BrandShowLive.