September 13, 2024 • 49 mins
Sponsored Episode
Ever wondered how a young girl from Uruguay could rise to become a leading figure in the U.S. interpreting and education world? Join us as Judy Cortés opens up about her captivating journey from her early days in Paysandú and Montevideo to the unexpected cultural shocks of Los Angeles. Judy recalls her family's vibrant international restaurant, her strict yet enriching education, and the linguistic skills she honed along the way—all of which set the stage for her remarkable career.
Discover the twists and turns of Judy's professional path, from working at the Defense Language Institute to teaching at the Modern Institute of Foreign Studies. Balancing her ambitions with family commitments, Judy transitioned into public school bilingual education, all while maintaining her credentials as a summer court interpreter. Her story is one of versatility and resilience, navigating diverse roles and making impactful contributions in each.
Judy also sheds light on the pressing need for interpreting services in schools, detailing her efforts to enhance language access for families. Listen as she discusses the development of bilingual assessments, her comprehensive guidebook for educational interpreters, and the crucial distinction between translation and interpretation. Plus, don’t miss out on Judy's insights from her book "Introduction to Educational Interpreting and Translation" and a special promo code for our listeners. This episode is a treasure trove of wisdom for anyone passionate about languages, education, or both. 🤓
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Welcome back Branded Bunch to a new episode of the
Brand the Interpreter podcast.
This is Mireya, your host.
Today's special episode bringsus Judy Cortez.
Judy Cortez completed herundergraduate studies and
graduated with a Bachelor of Artin Spanish.
A year later, she received hermaster's degree and then taught
Spanish for a brief period atthe Defense Language Institute
(00:29):
in Monterey, california.
She went on to complete aDoctor of Philosophy while
teaching as an assistantprofessor in the Modern
Languages Department at theUniversity of Hawaii.
She has taught translationcourses for the Middlebury
Institute of InternationalStudies.
After obtaining her stateinterpreting certification, she
worked on a part-time basis as acourt interpreter.
(00:50):
Her dedication and interest ininterpreting led to her
long-term involvement with theAdministrative Office of the US
Courts as a rater of candidatestaking the oral portion of the
federal court interpreter's exam.
Later, she embarked on a careerin bilingual education for 15
years, teaching various gradelevels in public school settings
(01:10):
.
Presently she teaches for CSUMBand continues to interpret in
legal, medical and educationalsettings.
So, without further ado, pleasehelp me.
Welcome Judy Cortez to the show.
Judy, welcome to the show.
Glad to be here, mireya.
(01:32):
Yes, glad you're here and thankyou for taking the time to be
able to share your interpreterstory.
We're always eager to learnabout the challenges, the
successes and whatever.
Little bit of information, or alot a bit of information can be
shared through the experiencesof an interpreter out in the
(01:54):
field, and I know that we'regoing to be sharing also with
this audience a little bit abouta project of yours, but for now
we'll keep it a secret.
Right, sounds good, that's theplan.
All right, let's begin byknowing Judy just a little bit
more.
How about if you wouldn't mindsharing with us perhaps where
you grew up and maybe even afond childhood memory of yours?
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Well, this brings me back to my elementary school
years.
I grew up in the northern partof Uruguay, in Paysandú, and
spent some time there, of course, learning how to read and write
in Spanish.
I don't have too many fondmemories of the school itself,
more so when we moved to thecapital, montevideo.
(02:38):
That was a little more, was alittle more, I would say, more
fun.
But I do remember as a childgoing to a ranch, an estancia,
where I had a fun time because Iwas free and no restraints from
the teacher and I was able toride horses and play in the
(02:59):
creek and just have a fun time,I was going to say be a child.
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
So when we moved to Montevideo,I went to a school that had
some English components.
It was somewhat bilingual.
It was called the Sacred HeartSchool.
Only girls went there, and Iwas there until high school,
(03:22):
until we moved to the US.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Oh wow, Was it like a Catholic school.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Yes, it was a school with nuns and some that were not
, and those that were not nunswere a little more, I would say,
pleasant because, for example,I can remember the French
teacher.
She would teach us songs aboutchildren's, songs like Frère
Jacques and that type of thing,and I remember that as something
(03:52):
very positive.
But it was a very strict school.
We were not allowed to talk toour classmates in class, only
during recess.
There was also a time that Iwas a boarder there.
I believe it was from August toDecember, quite a long time,
and I can content or subjectmatter related, but potentially
even from one of the teachers orsomebody that became your
(04:32):
mentor there.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
But why the organization piece?
Speaker 2 (04:35):
I mean, everything was so structured the classroom,
the subject matters, and Isuppose it's the same way here,
but in the US it's a verydifferent atmosphere, super
different.
But our English teacher did notfocus on anything oral.
We read a lot, we diagrammedsentences, we created the
(05:00):
subject, the predicate, thedifferent objects, and I suppose
that helped me when I came tothe States, because they took me
to a room, a library, and gaveme a test, a written test, and I
did so well so they thought Ididn't need any extra support in
(05:20):
English.
I probably did orally, but notin the written format.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Not according to your written results.
Now, did you come to the to theuh states once you completed
your studies there, like meaning12th grade it was it.
Was it college university orwas it before then that you came
to the States?
It was before then.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
I.
I came to the US in high school, so we spent one year in the
Los Angeles area and then Igraduated from a US high school.
Yes, and I was just thrilledwith everything having to do
with the school.
(06:01):
There were electives.
I actually could choose anelective.
Nobody was telling me exactlywhat to choose.
I didn't choose anything downthere, but, yes, so I, I learned
how to type, how to use thekeyboard, and I think I
continued learning French.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
I continued learning French.
What was your experience likegoing from Uruguay to Los
Angeles in California?
What do you recall was maybethe thing that sort of shocked
you the most about those twoplaces.
What shocked me?
Speaker 2 (06:41):
the most?
Just so many different things.
The huge, what shocked me themost?
Just so many different things.
The huge supermarkets, thedifferent type of sense of humor
that I couldn't quite get atfirst and I probably still don't
get.
I'm trying.
My parents bought a restaurantfor a year, so I spent some time
(07:02):
working there during the timethey owned it and we were
surrounded by people from othercountries.
I mean, they were waiters fromSpain, greece.
The cook was Filipino, then wehad an Italian cook, the
dishwasher was Chinese.
It was an internationalcommunity.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
Yeah, I heard you mention that you continued
taking French when you came hereas well.
Were you interested in thatlanguage because you were
thinking already?
Were you formulating somethingin your mind as far as how you
wanted to use it, or was it justsomething you enjoyed?
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Well, I did enjoy it, but in high school I really
didn't have a career path inmind.
It was just too early.
It was once I started at theuniversity that I thought, oh my
gosh, I'm fluent in Spanish,but if I'm to use my language
skills, the best thing to dowould be to use them in a
(08:04):
setting that's enjoyable to me.
And I thought about the UN.
There was an acquaintance thatknew somebody at the UN and I
thought okay, I can improve myFrench and possibly become an
interpreter in that organization.
But that did not happen becauseI ended up not going to France
(08:26):
happened because I ended up notgoing to France, where I really
wanted to go.
When I applied to the educationabroad program, I selected
France as number one and Ithought I was all set to go, but
they gave me my number twochoice, which was Spain, and
that's why I forgot about that.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
As Spain would have it.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Yeah, so I ended up concentrating all my studies in
Spanish, Spanish literature,Latin American literature and
anything related to the language.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
What do you remember from your now experience as
you're going into Spain or onceyou're in Spain?
What do you remember?
That setting or in that setting, what stood out for you?
Speaker 2 (09:09):
It's the same thing that I talked to you about the
freedom, the fact that I couldmake all kinds of decisions on
my own, what courses I couldtake, where I could go whenever
I wanted to go, to the Prado oranywhere, on the weekends or
long weekends, you know, justtraveling the country, going to
all kinds of places, becausethere were no restraints and I
(09:34):
was just enjoying myself and Ihad a roommate that had the same
mindset.
So we traveled quite a bit.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
How long were you out in Spain?
For it was a year, and then wealso traveled throughout Europe
after our coursework was overAnything from those experiences
that you took away, that youstill carry with you today,
aside from the new, renownedfreedom of travel as a young
(10:05):
adult, anything that maybe youpicked up that you've never
experienced since.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Well, I think travelers always learn something
new from every country theyvisit about customs, styles, the
way of life, the mindset ofpeople, how you relate to your
surroundings.
It's just so much, but in anyevent, I did go back, finish my
(10:35):
degrees and everything again inSpanish.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
When you came back to the States, did you decide that
you were going to look intothat path of interpreting, or
did your path lead somewhereelse once you were back from
Spain?
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Well, first of all I had to complete a bachelor's,
and then I was already at theuniversity.
I figured I might as well get amaster's, since it's not going
to take that long to do that too.
The university I figured Imight as well get a master's,
since it's not going to takethat long to do that too.
And I did not pursue the ideaof going into interpreting until
later, and that happened afterI returned from teaching at the
(11:17):
University of Hawaii.
So I was an assistant professorout there and I did not
interpret, so to speak, becauseyou know there was no need.
In the type of setting I was in.
I was teaching literaturecourses, culture courses,
literature and translation.
(11:38):
But when that ended and I cameback to the mainland, I ended up
writing this textbook with ateam of people there were three
of us writing the basic Spanishcourse at the Defense Language
Institute, and it was after thatthat I started seriously
thinking about interpreting.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
The Defense Language Institute.
Can you break that down forthose of us that maybe need a
little bit of context?
Who's that for?
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Well, it's a federal government program.
They teach languages from many,many countries I can't give you
the number and it all dependson the world situation.
Which language is in greatestneed Russian, thai, korean,
chinese.
They have a large Spanishdepartment.
(12:29):
As far as I know, there areabout at least 50 Spanish
instructors.
That's what I heard about twoyears ago.
But yeah, it's a very intensecourse of study and, depending
on the language, the courses cantake between six months to nine
months to 12 months.
Depending on the language, thecourses can take between six
months to nine months to 12months, depending on the
difficulty of the language.
(12:51):
My role when I went there was towrite the basic Spanish course.
You know, 20 volumes ofmaterials with modules, with a
clear idea as to what needed tobe in each chapter activities,
exercises like lecturas ornarratives, and comprehension
(13:12):
exercises, and then we had toalso record all this stuff.
So that's why it took so longand it was used.
It's no used now.
We have so much stuff on the,on the Internet and videos, and
everything is so accessible interms of what's going on in
different countries.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
Now not to go off too much into this topic, but I
know that I'd like to ask ourguests, whenever opportunities
such as that that maybe otherindividuals would dream about
being able to access, I like tosort of touch on how that
opportunity came to be.
Do you recall if this wassomething that did you need to
(13:53):
apply to this?
Was your name mentioned as areferral?
Was it due to a collaborationwith another colleague?
How did the opportunity came tobe to be able to write this
curriculum?
Speaker 2 (14:09):
I'm trying to remember the details.
Somehow, I found out that theywere looking for writers, for
course developers, and I hadactually taught at the DLI for
six months, and so I wasfamiliar with the department and
(14:29):
I was.
I happened to be back inCalifornia, so I got in touch
with the Defense LanguageInstitute to see if that, in
fact, was a project that was,you know, getting underway.
And yes, of course, I went foran interview and by then I had
(14:51):
this doctorate and I think thatwas also helpful.
Yeah, so, yeah, I was familiarwith the defense language.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
That's great.
I love that, because we talkabout that often in being able
to have those connections andthat maybe at the moment the
opportunities that you'reseeking may not be there, but
that doesn't mean that you won'tcome full the opportunities or
opportunities in the future.
So I always tend to ask thatquestion as to how did that even
(15:28):
come to be?
Were you referred?
And in your case, yeah, you hadsome experience there because
they knew you and you came inbetter prepared.
It was just waiting for you.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
They were and I took the initiative to go over there
and get interviewed and westarted with the project when it
was over.
I did not, I mean I could havecontinued in the institute
teaching, but by then I had akid and I couldn't do a lot of
things with child care at stake,of things with child care at
(16:03):
stake, it's just not very easywhen you have a toddler or two
and you're trying to do so much.
Those are critical years for thechild and the parent.
And so at that point after theDLI, I thought, okay, I can
(16:24):
interpret in this area.
I can do some courtinterpreting.
I can also teach the languageor teach a course in translation
.
So I went over to theMiddlebury Well, today it's
called Middlebury.
Back then it was called theModern Institute of Foreign
Studies, then changed to ModernInstitute of International
Studies, and I approached thedepartment head At that time it
was Etil Verjona and we talkedand I had gotten my state
(16:53):
certificate by then and I hadalso gotten.
There was a certificate thatwas being given through the ALRB
, agricultural Labor RelationsBoard.
They were also interviewing andcertifying interpreters.
So I had gotten those two.
(17:14):
I had also gone to SanFrancisco to take the ATA exam,
which I did pass.
So I had this behind me.
So I was prepared and I startedteaching courses at the Mato
Institute, but not interpreting,it was sight translation, which
(17:38):
meant that I could actuallyprepare everything quite well
ahead of time and be ready forthe students.
So I did that for a while, notfor long.
Not for long because obviouslyit was.
I was an adjunct, I was not afull-time professor of any sort.
So I decided then to seek aposition in public schools
(18:05):
bilingual education.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
Really so.
You went from teachinguniversity, and then to what
Public schools?
Speaker 2 (18:17):
I know, I know.
I just didn't want to tellanybody that I actually had a
doctorate because I thought itwas a big minus.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
And I had to go back to school and get a credential,
so that I could teach in thatsetting.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
Oh yeah, of course, yeah, yeah, but the job was 10
months, not 12 months like atthe DLI, which was important to
me.
By then I was able to drop offthe boys and pick them up and
have a decent type of preschoolfor them, so that also helped.
(18:54):
But yes, I went into publicschools, first as a bilingual
teacher, as a second gradeteacher, and then I became a
bilingual resource teacher.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
What gaps were you seeing or identifying?
First of all, let me ask,before you answer that question
where did you go back to teach Kthrough 12?
Because I don't know.
Were you doing the universityat Monterey?
Were you out there or were youdoing online?
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Well, the university at Monterey did not actually
start until much later.
We did not have a university inMonterey except for what is now
Middlebury Institute.
Middlebury, yes.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Yeah, and.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
It was much later.
I spent about 14, 15 years inpublic school settings in
Salinas, close to Monterey,central coast of California, and
overall it was a goodexperience.
(20:05):
But I also yearned to work withadults and so I did a lot of
interpreting during the summersto keep up my certification and
that I really enjoyed.
It was challenging becauseyou're dealing with so many
(20:27):
different scenarios, especiallyin court could be family law,
some very complex cases.
At times it could be divorces,finance issues.
The easiest was traffic court.
(20:47):
The easiest was traffic court.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
Wow, so you're doing court interpreting during the
summers.
Were you freelancing?
Yes, I was, is that?
Speaker 2 (20:56):
what you were doing through agencies.
Okay, exactly, some freelancingand mostly just direct contact
with the courts.
I mean, they had my name so thecourts called me they could
call you.
Yes, they had my name, so thecourts called me, they could
call you.
Yes, either Salinas Courthouseor Santa Cruz Courthouse.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Yes, when you would come back to the school district
and do your teaching job and doyour teaching job, were you
seeing maybe the comparisons orthe contrast between when you're
working as an interpreter andthen the services that families
(21:38):
were receiving or not receivingin the school district?
Was that helping you sort ofsee, through a different lens,
the support services forfamilies?
Or talk to us more a little bitabout how you started to see
some of those gaps languageaccess gaps in the school
district?
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Well, it became quite apparent to me at the beginning
, especially the first school Iwas in, that there were no
interpreters in the office oranywhere nearby.
I mean, I was the closestclassroom where they could find
a bilingual person and so I wascalled in there quite a bit
during that year and it wasn'tpleasant for me to be called out
(22:22):
of a classroom when I'm in themiddle of teaching a lesson and
trying to calm down the studentsand getting them all in their
proper reading groups andeverything else that's happening
in the morning.
So I would say that the schoolwas not entirely aware that
(22:45):
there was a big need forinterpreting services and at
times anybody that had takenmaybe two courses in Spanish
would go in there and act as aninterpreter too, and it wasn't
the greatest way to handle theneeds of the parents.
When I became a bilingualresearch teacher, I had a little
(23:08):
more flexibility because I wasable to interpret for teachers
during the conferences, iepmeetings, and that all of a
sudden changed for me because Ifelt truly helpful.
And you asked about the contrastbetween court and schools.
Well, obviously I was applyingsome of my knowledge from my
(23:33):
court situations to the schoolsettings.
I was interpreting everything,which I really should do, like
every interpreter should do, andtreating everybody with respect
and acting as a professional,signing up for the exchange
(23:53):
that's going to take place.
So I was very aware of what hadto happen in the schools, and
at one point I approached the HRperson in the district this is
a district that had about 13schools and I said you know,
there are some potentialinterpreters in schools.
(24:16):
Why don't we set up anassessment to see who's
qualified?
And so I was asked to createthis assessment so that those
that were interested could takepart in this assessment and then
, at the same time, if theypassed, their salary would be
(24:39):
bumped a little bit.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
So that I did create and I think that was an
important step forward thoseconversations with different
district departments, as opposedto just keeping the
conversations, you know, withinyour own department.
Let's say, if you're workingfor I don't know what it's
student services, let's just say, and then keeping that
conversation there, whereas toif you extend the conversation
(25:20):
to other department leaders, youmight have buy-in perhaps more
quickly than within your owndepartment, just because they
might.
They might be interestedexactly in what you did, in
expanding or improving thecurrent system that they have.
So so, going back to your story, it did not exist.
Then it sounds like the thebilingual assessment did not
(25:43):
exist up until that point?
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Not at all.
No, I mean I wish.
I'm not sure how many districtshave such an assessment and
frankly I don't know if theykept it up, if in fact it was,
once I left to go back to theuniversity, if they continued
using it or not.
You know, sometimes it dependson the players.
Who stays, who wants to promotethat, who doesn't.
So true.
(26:06):
Sad but true.
yes, yeah, but they did have afull-time district translator,
but she was just a translatorand I do remember she tried
doing some simultaneousinterpreting at one of our big
get-hers for and it, it, it wastraumatizing for her.
(26:33):
So, yeah, it it wasn't right itI guess it was because the
administration didn't realizethat there are two very
different roles the one of atranslator, the one of an
interpreter.
There are some that can do bothand but it doesn't mean that
everybody can perform in bothroles, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
Absolutely, that's so true, so brutal, so brutal.
Poor translator.
I can only imagine Not just thefact that they requested if she
would interpret because, forthe reasons you just said, not
everyone can do both, but thatshe was asked to interpret in
simultaneous mode.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Yes, quite drastic for her.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
Yep, Absolutely, so.
You spent time in this district.
You developed some systems tosupport them with their language
access needs.
I love the fact that youstarted with assessing bilingual
ability to begin with, because,of course, that you know that
that initial assessment of whenyou're bringing in quote,
(27:33):
unquote bilingual people andthen, if the assessment isn't,
isn't capturing those veryspecific um, uh, what do you
call it Like markers that weshould be looking, looking at
right when it comes toidentifying someone, if they're
truly bilingual, then we'restill missing the mark.
(27:54):
I mean, and that's just thebilingual element.
So once you incorporate it,let's say the bilingual
assessment, did you evertransition or move into creating
or supporting, with thecreation of being able to assess
their interpreting skill set,or did you mainly support with
the bilingual assessment only?
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Well, the bilingual assessment encompassed the
written language.
I mean, first of all, youeliminate quite a few potential
interpreters if they cannottranslate some basic document.
And what we were using I meanwhat I was using then was
something that one would see ona daily basis at at a school,
(28:38):
you know, just forms,applications, that type of thing
.
And once they passed that, thenthey would be assessed in the
oral type of assessment, whichwas consecutive, it wasn't
simultaneous, so it was adialogue and that's how it was,
(29:00):
but you know that happened quitea long time ago, but it was a
start.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
It was a start.
They didn't have it before.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
So it was a good start.
Yeah, yeah and, and you know,I've I've rated bilingual people
in a number of situations, so II had a firm grasp of what was
needed in this particularsetting absolutely.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Now talk to us a little bit about a guide to
effective practices.
What was the inspiration behindputting something like this
(29:53):
together?
I think I, before you answer, Ifeel like it might have been
something that was sort ofbrewing, maybe for some time, or
maybe some ideas came, or didyou just wake up one day and say
I want to?
Speaker 2 (30:07):
write a guidebook came, or did you just wake up
one day and say I want to writea guidebook?
No, no, no.
Let me begin by saying I havebeen giving presentations about
interpreting in school settingsfor a while.
It's a topic that alwaysintrigued me and I thought okay,
I see what's happening here andI see that there is a need for
(30:28):
some type of training, and Ithink the best way to do it to
start would be to go and presentat CABE conferences.
So I went to these CABEconferences as a presenter.
I don't know how many I went to.
Some were they were inCalifornia, either in San
Francisco or Anaheim, and I didsome in the regional area where
(30:50):
I live.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
Kaveh Judy not to interrupt.
Apologies, but Kaveh stands forthe California Association of
Bilingual Education.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
Bilingual Education Got it yes.
So I presented.
And when I was getting ready topresent I mean, I had to
obviously prepare myself so Iwas collecting a number of
dialogues that I had been youknow where, I had been an
interpreter, and I kept a fileof all these exchanges that I
(31:23):
was participating in IEPs notall of them, but enough that I
thought, well, one day I may usethis material and also all the
translations I did for theteachers that required me to
also put my skills into practice.
(31:43):
So I had this in folders.
So I had this in folders.
And when I went to theuniversity you know, when I was
hired to become the it's calledcoordinator of field placements,
which meant I had to find thebest teachers in the field to
(32:03):
work with our multiple subjectcredential students when I went
to university, I remember thefirst year there was a
presentation how do you getpublished?
And I thought, hmm, I listenedto that and I thought, okay, I
have a lot of material here.
(32:24):
I'll see when I can put ittogether.
But the thing is the job waspretty intense.
I had absolutely no time tostart a project like that.
I mean, I was coordinating thisprogram, having supervisors
work for me and observingstudents, and if there was a
problem I would get out there.
(32:47):
Plus, I was also teaching in theevening for the community
college, so there was just a lotgoing on for me.
So, to answer your question,when did I put it all together?
I had the beginnings of a book,of a guidebook, of a book, of a
(33:08):
guidebook, and when thepandemic hit, I thought, wow,
this is the time that I can putit all together, not going
anywhere.
I only teach one class on aFriday.
I have the rest of the timethere's nobody around me.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
And.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
I can actually pull it off, but it took a while.
But so it took a while?
Sure, it took a while, and Icontacted Cross Cultural
Communications and they werevery receptive to my idea, and
so that's how it all started.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
What did you find?
I mean, like you mentioned thisin the beginning, just the
thought of taking something onso huge was you know?
You were thinking there's noway that I can pull this off
right now.
What did you find was perhapsthe most challenging?
Or what did you learn along theway, as you were working on the
(34:04):
guidebook?
So you contact cross-cultural,they say, yes, we're interested.
But then what did you find asyou're actually putting the work
together, was there a momentwhen you said what was I
thinking?
Speaker 2 (34:18):
Well, that's a good question.
I mean, what I had written inthe past, the Spanish basic
course is totally different thanthis.
They were telling me what to dohere.
I was in charge, but there's aprocess and I wasn't familiar
with the process, so I waslearning.
As I was going, I realized thatmaybe this idea of mine needed
(34:42):
some reorganizing in terms ofthe chapters.
So Marjorie Bancroft was very,very helpful in that regard, and
we had weekly meetings.
We organized the chapter in away that made a little more
sense than the way I had it, andadded a chapter and then when
(35:02):
it was completed sort ofcompleted because it was never
completed, or sort of completedbecause it was never completed
as you write, you keep thinkingof the things you can add
additions, what sounds right,what doesn't sound right, and it
was something that kept meintrigued on a daily basis.
(35:24):
I mean, I'd go for a walk andall I could think about is the
next paragraph or the nextchapter or how I could change
this or that.
There were some suggestionsthat were helpful.
There are about let's see 12chapters now, and when I wrote
it there were 11.
But the 12th chapter wasactually part of some of the
(35:46):
other chapters where we pulledapart that became the guidebook,
it became the practicumexercises.
So there were a few things thatthe publisher thought would be
helpful Do an introduction andalso do a conclusion.
Plus, every chapter had to havea series of activities that were
(36:09):
based on the content of thatchapter.
So I had to create somethinglike a check for understanding.
Type of page a couple pageswith multiple choice items, fill
in the blanks, matchingopen-ended questions.
That kind of thing.
That wasn't in my mind when Iwrote the guidebook, but I think
(36:32):
it became very helpful.
I think it's a plus that wehave it in the chapters.
Yeah, but I think the highlighthas to do with the practical
role plays that appear in theconsecutive portion, the
simultaneous portion and thenthe exercises for sight
(36:53):
translation and translationitself.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
I really love that you included that in the
guidebook, because I thinkthat's definitely something that
as many in the field,particularly those that
specialize in education, arereally trying to highlight is
the fact that interpreters ineducation, professional
interpreters in education, areutilizing all three modes of
(37:17):
interpreting and they shouldcome in if they're being hired
as professional interpreters,that they should be coming in
with that basic knowledge of allthree modes so that they are
applying that depending on theassignment, and so I really like
that you included all threemodes and that you have
activities so that individualscould expand, continue working
(37:39):
on learning and expanding allthree modes.
I think that's for me at least.
I know that it's superimportant when I see the content
for interpreters that it's notso highly focused on number one,
one subject matter, one meetingtype is really the word I'm
looking for and that we're notjust focused on the consecutive
part, because it's not justconsecutive interpreting.
(38:02):
It could maybe be your default,depending on the assignment,
but it absolutely is not theonly mode.
So I think that's really greatthat you added.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
Right, and I think you can also use both, depending
on the situation.
You can go from one to the othertoo.
The situation.
You can go from one to theother too, but I want to also
say this is not just forinterpreters, practicing
interpreters, it's also fornovice interpreters.
It's a guidebook that couldeasily be used in a
semester-long course.
It could be used by trainers ofinterpreters in different
(38:37):
settings, those that give outcertificates for interpreters,
and I would also like to addthat it's very relevant to
administrators, because theyneed to understand, if they have
a large population of Englishlearner parents, that this is
something that needs to beaddressed and they need to
(38:59):
become knowledgeable.
I would also say that if thereare special ed teachers or
psychologists that work withEnglish learner parents, that
they should be aware of how towork with an interpreter.
I was very fortunate to workwith a couple of special ed
teachers, and they were givingme a lot of pointers on how they
(39:21):
expect the interpreter to toact in in one of these meetings.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
So that's great, yeah , that's very helpful to get the
insight of uh.
You know, yeah, what is theexpectation of uh from, from the
, the staff, when working withan interpreter, and I imagine
that it's the professionalismside.
If they know how to work with atrained interpreter, then they
know the expectation.
I'd like to sort of read offsome of the chapters that you
(39:49):
have in your guidebook, just sothat individuals can get an idea
, because one of my questionswas going to be that is, who is
the intended audience for thisguidebook which, you know, you
just so kindly shared?
And I think it's important thatyou even mentioned the
administrators, because I thinkoftentimes, when we think about
training, we're only thinkingabout those that are going to
(40:11):
provide the service and weforget about those that support
the service and oftentimes arethe decision makers behind the
service.
And how do you make a decisionwithout the information Right,
like, how is that?
Speaker 2 (40:26):
Very true, very true.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
So you've got chapters on here that talk about
the overview of the US system.
You talk about who isinterpreting.
Who will you interpret for?
You do talk on interpreting inspecial education.
One of the most importantthings for school districts that
especially if they are beingrequired now to create some sort
of systems and training is togive training on ethics, and you
(40:51):
have a chapter on ethics ineducational setting as well.
All three modes of interpretingare in here.
You talk about the writtentranslation.
You talk about languageproficiency and certification.
I mean this is a very robustguidebook for individuals that
are interested in just gettingmore information on what it's
(41:11):
like.
You talk about the languagelaws in there as well, which is,
again, another very greatresource for administrators and
school staff that are interestedin really focusing on this
topic as it relates specificallyto their area.
I think there's a lot ofcontent out there that they may
be able to find, but that maybeyou have to piecemeal together
(41:36):
to see if it relates toeducation, and oftentimes many
individuals have a hard timebringing this conversation
forward to their administratorbecause the resources well, in
the past not so much now, butthe resources that were out
there weren't necessarily tiedto education.
It was maybe court or medicalinterpreting right, and so we
(41:57):
had to start conversations basedoff of well.
This is medical, but it alsoapplies to education.
Speaker 2 (42:04):
Yeah, and you know, funny thing, I wish I had been
able to read a book like thiswhen I started interpreting in
schools, because it's I mean Iread it, I look at it and I go
over these chapters, like youjust mentioned, and it's just
full of very useful information,very practical information, and
(42:27):
it's also for individuals thatwant to practice on their own.
I mean, it's all there.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
It is all there a great time because of the
highlight right now withfocusing on ethics and standards
of practice for interpreters.
The AITE just published inDecember their code of ethics
and standards of practice, whichis super exciting, a very
(42:57):
robust document.
I know that there is theNatissle that is out there.
I call it Natissle and I don'tknow if everyone pronounces the
acronym in that way probably notbut the acronym is the NAETISL.
They've had a document out fora while as well in terms of a
(43:18):
code of ethics and they'vefocused those efforts too for
interpreters in education.
So, all to say, that there isnow more, there are more
resources out there, and it'sexciting because for many of us,
just like you just mentioned,judy, we perhaps working in
education if we were in-house oras a freelancer getting these
(43:42):
assignments in education andthere were hardly any resources
out there.
And now we're getting we'reseeing much more resources very
specific to education.
Speaker 2 (43:54):
Yeah, I do want to add that we do have a fantastic
section at the very end, theappendix that has glossaries and
education sites, bilingualprograms, list of dictionaries,
translation apps, computersoftware tools.
Speaker 1 (44:10):
It's just all there, and so it's again very practical
and useful, yeah, and a verygreat resource, absolutely.
So a couple of questions beforewe wrap up our conversation,
judy.
First and foremost is I alwayslike to ask our guests to share,
potentially, somerecommendations for the new
(44:32):
generation of languageprofessionals that are coming on
.
So, for instance, for thosethat are maybe highly motivated
in entering the field ofeducation as a trained
interpreter, what would be yourrecommendation to them, aside
from run, don't walk to go,purchase this guidebook.
Speaker 2 (44:54):
What to do?
Well, continue learning on,continue training, continue
looking up what is the latestpublication.
It's, you know it's.
It's a way of expanding yourmind, your, your brain, your,
your skills.
You, if you're an interpreter,you already had have a wealth of
(45:17):
skills from your flexibility,the understanding of different
cultures, being able to workwith parties that don't
necessarily share the sameculture.
So I would say, you know,continue seeking those
opportunities and continueexpanding your knowledge.
Speaker 1 (45:39):
Yeah, don't go working for education and then
not continue your own education,continue expanding.
Speaker 2 (45:48):
Yes, and it's also a very I mean you feel satisfied,
you feel like you're helpingpeople.
It's not traumatic like in amedical setting can be traumatic
like in a medical setting canbe.
It's a little more relaxed than, let's say, court situations
(46:08):
and you really feel like bothparties are very appreciative of
your skill.
Speaker 1 (46:26):
I agree so true.
Speaker 2 (46:26):
Where can our listeners purchase this book,
judy?
Where can they go to purchasethis guidebook?
They can go to the website forthe publisher,
cultureandlanguagenet, under thetab that says books.
So it'swwwcultureandlanguagenet.
That would be the best place togo.
Speaker 1 (46:47):
Definitely, and I'll make sure to link that in the
episode notes so thatindividuals can run and go get
that book and get to know whatit's like to work in education
as a trained interpreter.
Thank you for having me.
Absolutely, judy.
It has been such a privilegeand a pleasure to have you on
(47:07):
the show today.
Thank you so very much for theopportunity to get to know you,
judy, the person a little bitmore, as well as the
professional.
And thank you, I would say,from everyone out there that has
always been looking for aguidebook in this particular
field.
On behalf of all of us thathave always searched for this,
(47:28):
thank you for putting your timeand your effort and your
experience in one centralizedplace where individuals can go
and finally find that resourcethat they've been looking for
I'm sure we've all have beenlooking for for quite some time.
Thank you for that.
I appreciate you being heretoday and thank you again for
having me.
(47:49):
I've been speaking with JudyCortez, the author of
Introduction to EducationalInterpreting and Translation.
This book was published byCross-Cultural Communications
through their imprint, cultureand Language Press.
To purchase a copy, visit theironline store at
cultureandlanguagenet and, as aspecial offer for listeners of
(48:10):
this podcast.
Save $10 off your copy by usingthe promo code BTI10.
That's B-T-I and the number 10.
Welcome back Branded Bunch to a new episode of the
Brand the Interpreter podcast.
This is Mireya, your host.
Today's special episode bringsus Judy Cortez.
Judy Cortez completed herundergraduate studies and
graduated with a Bachelor of Artin Spanish.
A year later, she received hermaster's degree and then taught
Spanish for a brief period atthe Defense Language Institute
(00:29):
in Monterey, california.
She went on to complete aDoctor of Philosophy while
teaching as an assistantprofessor in the Modern
Languages Department at theUniversity of Hawaii.
She has taught translationcourses for the Middlebury
Institute of InternationalStudies.
After obtaining her stateinterpreting certification, she
worked on a part-time basis as acourt interpreter.
(00:50):
Her dedication and interest ininterpreting led to her
long-term involvement with theAdministrative Office of the US
Courts as a rater of candidatestaking the oral portion of the
federal court interpreter's exam.
Later, she embarked on a careerin bilingual education for 15
years, teaching various gradelevels in public school settings
(01:10):
.
Presently she teaches for CSUMBand continues to interpret in
legal, medical and educationalsettings.
So, without further ado, pleasehelp me.
Welcome Judy Cortez to the show.
Judy, welcome to the show.
Glad to be here, mireya.
(01:32):
Yes, glad you're here and thankyou for taking the time to be
able to share your interpreterstory.
We're always eager to learnabout the challenges, the
successes and whatever.
Little bit of information, or alot a bit of information can be
shared through the experiencesof an interpreter out in the
(01:54):
field, and I know that we'regoing to be sharing also with
this audience a little bit abouta project of yours, but for now
we'll keep it a secret.
Right, sounds good, that's theplan.
All right, let's begin byknowing Judy just a little bit
more.
How about if you wouldn't mindsharing with us perhaps where
you grew up and maybe even afond childhood memory of yours?
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Well, this brings me back to my elementary school
years.
I grew up in the northern partof Uruguay, in Paysandú, and
spent some time there, of course, learning how to read and write
in Spanish.
I don't have too many fondmemories of the school itself,
more so when we moved to thecapital, montevideo.
(02:38):
That was a little more, was alittle more, I would say, more
fun.
But I do remember as a childgoing to a ranch, an estancia,
where I had a fun time because Iwas free and no restraints from
the teacher and I was able toride horses and play in the
(02:59):
creek and just have a fun time,I was going to say be a child.
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
So when we moved to Montevideo,I went to a school that had
some English components.
It was somewhat bilingual.
It was called the Sacred HeartSchool.
Only girls went there, and Iwas there until high school,
(03:22):
until we moved to the US.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Oh wow, Was it like a Catholic school.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Yes, it was a school with nuns and some that were not
, and those that were not nunswere a little more, I would say,
pleasant because, for example,I can remember the French
teacher.
She would teach us songs aboutchildren's, songs like Frère
Jacques and that type of thing,and I remember that as something
(03:52):
very positive.
But it was a very strict school.
We were not allowed to talk toour classmates in class, only
during recess.
There was also a time that Iwas a boarder there.
I believe it was from August toDecember, quite a long time,
and I can content or subjectmatter related, but potentially
even from one of the teachers orsomebody that became your
(04:32):
mentor there.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
But why the organization piece?
Speaker 2 (04:35):
I mean, everything was so structured the classroom,
the subject matters, and Isuppose it's the same way here,
but in the US it's a verydifferent atmosphere, super
different.
But our English teacher did notfocus on anything oral.
We read a lot, we diagrammedsentences, we created the
(05:00):
subject, the predicate, thedifferent objects, and I suppose
that helped me when I came tothe States, because they took me
to a room, a library, and gaveme a test, a written test, and I
did so well so they thought Ididn't need any extra support in
(05:20):
English.
I probably did orally, but notin the written format.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Not according to your written results.
Now, did you come to the to theuh states once you completed
your studies there, like meaning12th grade it was it.
Was it college university orwas it before then that you came
to the States?
It was before then.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
I.
I came to the US in high school, so we spent one year in the
Los Angeles area and then Igraduated from a US high school.
Yes, and I was just thrilledwith everything having to do
with the school.
(06:01):
There were electives.
I actually could choose anelective.
Nobody was telling me exactlywhat to choose.
I didn't choose anything downthere, but, yes, so I, I learned
how to type, how to use thekeyboard, and I think I
continued learning French.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
I continued learning French.
What was your experience likegoing from Uruguay to Los
Angeles in California?
What do you recall was maybethe thing that sort of shocked
you the most about those twoplaces.
What shocked me?
Speaker 2 (06:41):
the most?
Just so many different things.
The huge, what shocked me themost?
Just so many different things.
The huge supermarkets, thedifferent type of sense of humor
that I couldn't quite get atfirst and I probably still don't
get.
I'm trying.
My parents bought a restaurantfor a year, so I spent some time
(07:02):
working there during the timethey owned it and we were
surrounded by people from othercountries.
I mean, they were waiters fromSpain, greece.
The cook was Filipino, then wehad an Italian cook, the
dishwasher was Chinese.
It was an internationalcommunity.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
Yeah, I heard you mention that you continued
taking French when you came hereas well.
Were you interested in thatlanguage because you were
thinking already?
Were you formulating somethingin your mind as far as how you
wanted to use it, or was it justsomething you enjoyed?
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Well, I did enjoy it, but in high school I really
didn't have a career path inmind.
It was just too early.
It was once I started at theuniversity that I thought, oh my
gosh, I'm fluent in Spanish,but if I'm to use my language
skills, the best thing to dowould be to use them in a
(08:04):
setting that's enjoyable to me.
And I thought about the UN.
There was an acquaintance thatknew somebody at the UN and I
thought okay, I can improve myFrench and possibly become an
interpreter in that organization.
But that did not happen becauseI ended up not going to France
(08:26):
happened because I ended up notgoing to France, where I really
wanted to go.
When I applied to the educationabroad program, I selected
France as number one and Ithought I was all set to go, but
they gave me my number twochoice, which was Spain, and
that's why I forgot about that.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
As Spain would have it.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Yeah, so I ended up concentrating all my studies in
Spanish, Spanish literature,Latin American literature and
anything related to the language.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
What do you remember from your now experience as
you're going into Spain or onceyou're in Spain?
What do you remember?
That setting or in that setting, what stood out for you?
Speaker 2 (09:09):
It's the same thing that I talked to you about the
freedom, the fact that I couldmake all kinds of decisions on
my own, what courses I couldtake, where I could go whenever
I wanted to go, to the Prado oranywhere, on the weekends or
long weekends, you know, justtraveling the country, going to
all kinds of places, becausethere were no restraints and I
(09:34):
was just enjoying myself and Ihad a roommate that had the same
mindset.
So we traveled quite a bit.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
How long were you out in Spain?
For it was a year, and then wealso traveled throughout Europe
after our coursework was overAnything from those experiences
that you took away, that youstill carry with you today,
aside from the new, renownedfreedom of travel as a young
(10:05):
adult, anything that maybe youpicked up that you've never
experienced since.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Well, I think travelers always learn something
new from every country theyvisit about customs, styles, the
way of life, the mindset ofpeople, how you relate to your
surroundings.
It's just so much, but in anyevent, I did go back, finish my
(10:35):
degrees and everything again inSpanish.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
When you came back to the States, did you decide that
you were going to look intothat path of interpreting, or
did your path lead somewhereelse once you were back from
Spain?
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Well, first of all I had to complete a bachelor's,
and then I was already at theuniversity.
I figured I might as well get amaster's, since it's not going
to take that long to do that too.
The university I figured Imight as well get a master's,
since it's not going to takethat long to do that too.
And I did not pursue the ideaof going into interpreting until
later, and that happened afterI returned from teaching at the
(11:17):
University of Hawaii.
So I was an assistant professorout there and I did not
interpret, so to speak, becauseyou know there was no need.
In the type of setting I was in.
I was teaching literaturecourses, culture courses,
literature and translation.
(11:38):
But when that ended and I cameback to the mainland, I ended up
writing this textbook with ateam of people there were three
of us writing the basic Spanishcourse at the Defense Language
Institute, and it was after thatthat I started seriously
thinking about interpreting.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
The Defense Language Institute.
Can you break that down forthose of us that maybe need a
little bit of context?
Who's that for?
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Well, it's a federal government program.
They teach languages from many,many countries I can't give you
the number and it all dependson the world situation.
Which language is in greatestneed Russian, thai, korean,
chinese.
They have a large Spanishdepartment.
(12:29):
As far as I know, there areabout at least 50 Spanish
instructors.
That's what I heard about twoyears ago.
But yeah, it's a very intensecourse of study and, depending
on the language, the courses cantake between six months to nine
months to 12 months.
Depending on the language, thecourses can take between six
months to nine months to 12months, depending on the
difficulty of the language.
(12:51):
My role when I went there was towrite the basic Spanish course.
You know, 20 volumes ofmaterials with modules, with a
clear idea as to what needed tobe in each chapter activities,
exercises like lecturas ornarratives, and comprehension
(13:12):
exercises, and then we had toalso record all this stuff.
So that's why it took so longand it was used.
It's no used now.
We have so much stuff on the,on the Internet and videos, and
everything is so accessible interms of what's going on in
different countries.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
Now not to go off too much into this topic, but I
know that I'd like to ask ourguests, whenever opportunities
such as that that maybe otherindividuals would dream about
being able to access, I like tosort of touch on how that
opportunity came to be.
Do you recall if this wassomething that did you need to
(13:53):
apply to this?
Was your name mentioned as areferral?
Was it due to a collaborationwith another colleague?
How did the opportunity came tobe to be able to write this
curriculum?
Speaker 2 (14:09):
I'm trying to remember the details.
Somehow, I found out that theywere looking for writers, for
course developers, and I hadactually taught at the DLI for
six months, and so I wasfamiliar with the department and
(14:29):
I was.
I happened to be back inCalifornia, so I got in touch
with the Defense LanguageInstitute to see if that, in
fact, was a project that was,you know, getting underway.
And yes, of course, I went foran interview and by then I had
(14:51):
this doctorate and I think thatwas also helpful.
Yeah, so, yeah, I was familiarwith the defense language.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
That's great.
I love that, because we talkabout that often in being able
to have those connections andthat maybe at the moment the
opportunities that you'reseeking may not be there, but
that doesn't mean that you won'tcome full the opportunities or
opportunities in the future.
So I always tend to ask thatquestion as to how did that even
(15:28):
come to be?
Were you referred?
And in your case, yeah, you hadsome experience there because
they knew you and you came inbetter prepared.
It was just waiting for you.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
They were and I took the initiative to go over there
and get interviewed and westarted with the project when it
was over.
I did not, I mean I could havecontinued in the institute
teaching, but by then I had akid and I couldn't do a lot of
things with child care at stake,of things with child care at
(16:03):
stake, it's just not very easywhen you have a toddler or two
and you're trying to do so much.
Those are critical years for thechild and the parent.
And so at that point after theDLI, I thought, okay, I can
(16:24):
interpret in this area.
I can do some courtinterpreting.
I can also teach the languageor teach a course in translation
.
So I went over to theMiddlebury Well, today it's
called Middlebury.
Back then it was called theModern Institute of Foreign
Studies, then changed to ModernInstitute of International
Studies, and I approached thedepartment head At that time it
was Etil Verjona and we talkedand I had gotten my state
(16:53):
certificate by then and I hadalso gotten.
There was a certificate thatwas being given through the ALRB
, agricultural Labor RelationsBoard.
They were also interviewing andcertifying interpreters.
So I had gotten those two.
(17:14):
I had also gone to SanFrancisco to take the ATA exam,
which I did pass.
So I had this behind me.
So I was prepared and I startedteaching courses at the Mato
Institute, but not interpreting,it was sight translation, which
(17:38):
meant that I could actuallyprepare everything quite well
ahead of time and be ready forthe students.
So I did that for a while, notfor long.
Not for long because obviouslyit was.
I was an adjunct, I was not afull-time professor of any sort.
So I decided then to seek aposition in public schools
(18:05):
bilingual education.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
Really so.
You went from teachinguniversity, and then to what
Public schools?
Speaker 2 (18:17):
I know, I know.
I just didn't want to tellanybody that I actually had a
doctorate because I thought itwas a big minus.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
And I had to go back to school and get a credential,
so that I could teach in thatsetting.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
Oh yeah, of course, yeah, yeah, but the job was 10
months, not 12 months like atthe DLI, which was important to
me.
By then I was able to drop offthe boys and pick them up and
have a decent type of preschoolfor them, so that also helped.
(18:54):
But yes, I went into publicschools, first as a bilingual
teacher, as a second gradeteacher, and then I became a
bilingual resource teacher.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
What gaps were you seeing or identifying?
First of all, let me ask,before you answer that question
where did you go back to teach Kthrough 12?
Because I don't know.
Were you doing the universityat Monterey?
Were you out there or were youdoing online?
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Well, the university at Monterey did not actually
start until much later.
We did not have a university inMonterey except for what is now
Middlebury Institute.
Middlebury, yes.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Yeah, and.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
It was much later.
I spent about 14, 15 years inpublic school settings in
Salinas, close to Monterey,central coast of California, and
overall it was a goodexperience.
(20:05):
But I also yearned to work withadults and so I did a lot of
interpreting during the summersto keep up my certification and
that I really enjoyed.
It was challenging becauseyou're dealing with so many
(20:27):
different scenarios, especiallyin court could be family law,
some very complex cases.
At times it could be divorces,finance issues.
The easiest was traffic court.
(20:47):
The easiest was traffic court.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
Wow, so you're doing court interpreting during the
summers.
Were you freelancing?
Yes, I was, is that?
Speaker 2 (20:56):
what you were doing through agencies.
Okay, exactly, some freelancingand mostly just direct contact
with the courts.
I mean, they had my name so thecourts called me they could
call you.
Yes, they had my name, so thecourts called me, they could
call you.
Yes, either Salinas Courthouseor Santa Cruz Courthouse.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Yes, when you would come back to the school district
and do your teaching job and doyour teaching job, were you
seeing maybe the comparisons orthe contrast between when you're
working as an interpreter andthen the services that families
(21:38):
were receiving or not receivingin the school district?
Was that helping you sort ofsee, through a different lens,
the support services forfamilies?
Or talk to us more a little bitabout how you started to see
some of those gaps languageaccess gaps in the school
district?
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Well, it became quite apparent to me at the beginning
, especially the first school Iwas in, that there were no
interpreters in the office oranywhere nearby.
I mean, I was the closestclassroom where they could find
a bilingual person and so I wascalled in there quite a bit
during that year and it wasn'tpleasant for me to be called out
(22:22):
of a classroom when I'm in themiddle of teaching a lesson and
trying to calm down the studentsand getting them all in their
proper reading groups andeverything else that's happening
in the morning.
So I would say that the schoolwas not entirely aware that
(22:45):
there was a big need forinterpreting services and at
times anybody that had takenmaybe two courses in Spanish
would go in there and act as aninterpreter too, and it wasn't
the greatest way to handle theneeds of the parents.
When I became a bilingualresearch teacher, I had a little
(23:08):
more flexibility because I wasable to interpret for teachers
during the conferences, iepmeetings, and that all of a
sudden changed for me because Ifelt truly helpful.
And you asked about the contrastbetween court and schools.
Well, obviously I was applyingsome of my knowledge from my
(23:33):
court situations to the schoolsettings.
I was interpreting everything,which I really should do, like
every interpreter should do, andtreating everybody with respect
and acting as a professional,signing up for the exchange
(23:53):
that's going to take place.
So I was very aware of what hadto happen in the schools, and
at one point I approached the HRperson in the district this is
a district that had about 13schools and I said you know,
there are some potentialinterpreters in schools.
(24:16):
Why don't we set up anassessment to see who's
qualified?
And so I was asked to createthis assessment so that those
that were interested could takepart in this assessment and then
, at the same time, if theypassed, their salary would be
(24:39):
bumped a little bit.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
So that I did create and I think that was an
important step forward thoseconversations with different
district departments, as opposedto just keeping the
conversations, you know, withinyour own department.
Let's say, if you're workingfor I don't know what it's
student services, let's just say, and then keeping that
conversation there, whereas toif you extend the conversation
(25:20):
to other department leaders, youmight have buy-in perhaps more
quickly than within your owndepartment, just because they
might.
They might be interestedexactly in what you did, in
expanding or improving thecurrent system that they have.
So so, going back to your story, it did not exist.
Then it sounds like the thebilingual assessment did not
(25:43):
exist up until that point?
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Not at all.
No, I mean I wish.
I'm not sure how many districtshave such an assessment and
frankly I don't know if theykept it up, if in fact it was,
once I left to go back to theuniversity, if they continued
using it or not.
You know, sometimes it dependson the players.
Who stays, who wants to promotethat, who doesn't.
So true.
(26:06):
Sad but true.
yes, yeah, but they did have afull-time district translator,
but she was just a translatorand I do remember she tried
doing some simultaneousinterpreting at one of our big
get-hers for and it, it, it wastraumatizing for her.
(26:33):
So, yeah, it it wasn't right itI guess it was because the
administration didn't realizethat there are two very
different roles the one of atranslator, the one of an
interpreter.
There are some that can do bothand but it doesn't mean that
everybody can perform in bothroles, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
Absolutely, that's so true, so brutal, so brutal.
Poor translator.
I can only imagine Not just thefact that they requested if she
would interpret because, forthe reasons you just said, not
everyone can do both, but thatshe was asked to interpret in
simultaneous mode.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Yes, quite drastic for her.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
Yep, Absolutely, so.
You spent time in this district.
You developed some systems tosupport them with their language
access needs.
I love the fact that youstarted with assessing bilingual
ability to begin with, because,of course, that you know that
that initial assessment of whenyou're bringing in quote,
(27:33):
unquote bilingual people andthen, if the assessment isn't,
isn't capturing those veryspecific um, uh, what do you
call it Like markers that weshould be looking, looking at
right when it comes toidentifying someone, if they're
truly bilingual, then we'restill missing the mark.
(27:54):
I mean, and that's just thebilingual element.
So once you incorporate it,let's say the bilingual
assessment, did you evertransition or move into creating
or supporting, with thecreation of being able to assess
their interpreting skill set,or did you mainly support with
the bilingual assessment only?
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Well, the bilingual assessment encompassed the
written language.
I mean, first of all, youeliminate quite a few potential
interpreters if they cannottranslate some basic document.
And what we were using I meanwhat I was using then was
something that one would see ona daily basis at at a school,
(28:38):
you know, just forms,applications, that type of thing
.
And once they passed that, thenthey would be assessed in the
oral type of assessment, whichwas consecutive, it wasn't
simultaneous, so it was adialogue and that's how it was,
(29:00):
but you know that happened quitea long time ago, but it was a
start.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
It was a start.
They didn't have it before.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
So it was a good start.
Yeah, yeah and, and you know,I've I've rated bilingual people
in a number of situations, so II had a firm grasp of what was
needed in this particularsetting absolutely.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Now talk to us a little bit about a guide to
effective practices.
What was the inspiration behindputting something like this
(29:53):
together?
I think I, before you answer, Ifeel like it might have been
something that was sort ofbrewing, maybe for some time, or
maybe some ideas came, or didyou just wake up one day and say
I want to?
Speaker 2 (30:07):
write a guidebook came, or did you just wake up
one day and say I want to writea guidebook?
No, no, no.
Let me begin by saying I havebeen giving presentations about
interpreting in school settingsfor a while.
It's a topic that alwaysintrigued me and I thought okay,
I see what's happening here andI see that there is a need for
(30:28):
some type of training, and Ithink the best way to do it to
start would be to go and presentat CABE conferences.
So I went to these CABEconferences as a presenter.
I don't know how many I went to.
Some were they were inCalifornia, either in San
Francisco or Anaheim, and I didsome in the regional area where
(30:50):
I live.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
Kaveh Judy not to interrupt.
Apologies, but Kaveh stands forthe California Association of
Bilingual Education.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
Bilingual Education Got it yes.
So I presented.
And when I was getting ready topresent I mean, I had to
obviously prepare myself so Iwas collecting a number of
dialogues that I had been youknow where, I had been an
interpreter, and I kept a fileof all these exchanges that I
(31:23):
was participating in IEPs notall of them, but enough that I
thought, well, one day I may usethis material and also all the
translations I did for theteachers that required me to
also put my skills into practice.
(31:43):
So I had this in folders.
So I had this in folders.
And when I went to theuniversity you know, when I was
hired to become the it's calledcoordinator of field placements,
which meant I had to find thebest teachers in the field to
(32:03):
work with our multiple subjectcredential students when I went
to university, I remember thefirst year there was a
presentation how do you getpublished?
And I thought, hmm, I listenedto that and I thought, okay, I
have a lot of material here.
(32:24):
I'll see when I can put ittogether.
But the thing is the job waspretty intense.
I had absolutely no time tostart a project like that.
I mean, I was coordinating thisprogram, having supervisors
work for me and observingstudents, and if there was a
problem I would get out there.
(32:47):
Plus, I was also teaching in theevening for the community
college, so there was just a lotgoing on for me.
So, to answer your question,when did I put it all together?
I had the beginnings of a book,of a guidebook, of a book, of a
(33:08):
guidebook, and when thepandemic hit, I thought, wow,
this is the time that I can putit all together, not going
anywhere.
I only teach one class on aFriday.
I have the rest of the timethere's nobody around me.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
And.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
I can actually pull it off, but it took a while.
But so it took a while?
Sure, it took a while, and Icontacted Cross Cultural
Communications and they werevery receptive to my idea, and
so that's how it all started.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
What did you find?
I mean, like you mentioned thisin the beginning, just the
thought of taking something onso huge was you know?
You were thinking there's noway that I can pull this off
right now.
What did you find was perhapsthe most challenging?
Or what did you learn along theway, as you were working on the
(34:04):
guidebook?
So you contact cross-cultural,they say, yes, we're interested.
But then what did you find asyou're actually putting the work
together, was there a momentwhen you said what was I
thinking?
Speaker 2 (34:18):
Well, that's a good question.
I mean, what I had written inthe past, the Spanish basic
course is totally different thanthis.
They were telling me what to dohere.
I was in charge, but there's aprocess and I wasn't familiar
with the process, so I waslearning.
As I was going, I realized thatmaybe this idea of mine needed
(34:42):
some reorganizing in terms ofthe chapters.
So Marjorie Bancroft was very,very helpful in that regard, and
we had weekly meetings.
We organized the chapter in away that made a little more
sense than the way I had it, andadded a chapter and then when
(35:02):
it was completed sort ofcompleted because it was never
completed, or sort of completedbecause it was never completed
as you write, you keep thinkingof the things you can add
additions, what sounds right,what doesn't sound right, and it
was something that kept meintrigued on a daily basis.
(35:24):
I mean, I'd go for a walk andall I could think about is the
next paragraph or the nextchapter or how I could change
this or that.
There were some suggestionsthat were helpful.
There are about let's see 12chapters now, and when I wrote
it there were 11.
But the 12th chapter wasactually part of some of the
(35:46):
other chapters where we pulledapart that became the guidebook,
it became the practicumexercises.
So there were a few things thatthe publisher thought would be
helpful Do an introduction andalso do a conclusion.
Plus, every chapter had to havea series of activities that were
(36:09):
based on the content of thatchapter.
So I had to create somethinglike a check for understanding.
Type of page a couple pageswith multiple choice items, fill
in the blanks, matchingopen-ended questions.
That kind of thing.
That wasn't in my mind when Iwrote the guidebook, but I think
(36:32):
it became very helpful.
I think it's a plus that wehave it in the chapters.
Yeah, but I think the highlighthas to do with the practical
role plays that appear in theconsecutive portion, the
simultaneous portion and thenthe exercises for sight
(36:53):
translation and translationitself.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
I really love that you included that in the
guidebook, because I thinkthat's definitely something that
as many in the field,particularly those that
specialize in education, arereally trying to highlight is
the fact that interpreters ineducation, professional
interpreters in education, areutilizing all three modes of
(37:17):
interpreting and they shouldcome in if they're being hired
as professional interpreters,that they should be coming in
with that basic knowledge of allthree modes so that they are
applying that depending on theassignment, and so I really like
that you included all threemodes and that you have
activities so that individualscould expand, continue working
(37:39):
on learning and expanding allthree modes.
I think that's for me at least.
I know that it's superimportant when I see the content
for interpreters that it's notso highly focused on number one,
one subject matter, one meetingtype is really the word I'm
looking for and that we're notjust focused on the consecutive
part, because it's not justconsecutive interpreting.
(38:02):
It could maybe be your default,depending on the assignment,
but it absolutely is not theonly mode.
So I think that's really greatthat you added.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
Right, and I think you can also use both, depending
on the situation.
You can go from one to the othertoo.
The situation.
You can go from one to theother too, but I want to also
say this is not just forinterpreters, practicing
interpreters, it's also fornovice interpreters.
It's a guidebook that couldeasily be used in a
semester-long course.
It could be used by trainers ofinterpreters in different
(38:37):
settings, those that give outcertificates for interpreters,
and I would also like to addthat it's very relevant to
administrators, because theyneed to understand, if they have
a large population of Englishlearner parents, that this is
something that needs to beaddressed and they need to
(38:59):
become knowledgeable.
I would also say that if thereare special ed teachers or
psychologists that work withEnglish learner parents, that
they should be aware of how towork with an interpreter.
I was very fortunate to workwith a couple of special ed
teachers, and they were givingme a lot of pointers on how they
(39:21):
expect the interpreter to toact in in one of these meetings.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
So that's great, yeah , that's very helpful to get the
insight of uh.
You know, yeah, what is theexpectation of uh from, from the
, the staff, when working withan interpreter, and I imagine
that it's the professionalismside.
If they know how to work with atrained interpreter, then they
know the expectation.
I'd like to sort of read offsome of the chapters that you
(39:49):
have in your guidebook, just sothat individuals can get an idea
, because one of my questionswas going to be that is, who is
the intended audience for thisguidebook which, you know, you
just so kindly shared?
And I think it's important thatyou even mentioned the
administrators, because I thinkoftentimes, when we think about
training, we're only thinkingabout those that are going to
(40:11):
provide the service and weforget about those that support
the service and oftentimes arethe decision makers behind the
service.
And how do you make a decisionwithout the information Right,
like, how is that?
Speaker 2 (40:26):
Very true, very true.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
So you've got chapters on here that talk about
the overview of the US system.
You talk about who isinterpreting.
Who will you interpret for?
You do talk on interpreting inspecial education.
One of the most importantthings for school districts that
especially if they are beingrequired now to create some sort
of systems and training is togive training on ethics, and you
(40:51):
have a chapter on ethics ineducational setting as well.
All three modes of interpretingare in here.
You talk about the writtentranslation.
You talk about languageproficiency and certification.
I mean this is a very robustguidebook for individuals that
are interested in just gettingmore information on what it's
(41:11):
like.
You talk about the languagelaws in there as well, which is,
again, another very greatresource for administrators and
school staff that are interestedin really focusing on this
topic as it relates specificallyto their area.
I think there's a lot ofcontent out there that they may
be able to find, but that maybeyou have to piecemeal together
(41:36):
to see if it relates toeducation, and oftentimes many
individuals have a hard timebringing this conversation
forward to their administratorbecause the resources well, in
the past not so much now, butthe resources that were out
there weren't necessarily tiedto education.
It was maybe court or medicalinterpreting right, and so we
(41:57):
had to start conversations basedoff of well.
This is medical, but it alsoapplies to education.
Speaker 2 (42:04):
Yeah, and you know, funny thing, I wish I had been
able to read a book like thiswhen I started interpreting in
schools, because it's I mean Iread it, I look at it and I go
over these chapters, like youjust mentioned, and it's just
full of very useful information,very practical information, and
(42:27):
it's also for individuals thatwant to practice on their own.
I mean, it's all there.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
It is all there a great time because of the
highlight right now withfocusing on ethics and standards
of practice for interpreters.
The AITE just published inDecember their code of ethics
and standards of practice, whichis super exciting, a very
(42:57):
robust document.
I know that there is theNatissle that is out there.
I call it Natissle and I don'tknow if everyone pronounces the
acronym in that way probably notbut the acronym is the NAETISL.
They've had a document out fora while as well in terms of a
(43:18):
code of ethics and they'vefocused those efforts too for
interpreters in education.
So, all to say, that there isnow more, there are more
resources out there, and it'sexciting because for many of us,
just like you just mentioned,judy, we perhaps working in
education if we were in-house oras a freelancer getting these
(43:42):
assignments in education andthere were hardly any resources
out there.
And now we're getting we'reseeing much more resources very
specific to education.
Speaker 2 (43:54):
Yeah, I do want to add that we do have a fantastic
section at the very end, theappendix that has glossaries and
education sites, bilingualprograms, list of dictionaries,
translation apps, computersoftware tools.
Speaker 1 (44:10):
It's just all there, and so it's again very practical
and useful, yeah, and a verygreat resource, absolutely.
So a couple of questions beforewe wrap up our conversation,
judy.
First and foremost is I alwayslike to ask our guests to share,
potentially, somerecommendations for the new
(44:32):
generation of languageprofessionals that are coming on
.
So, for instance, for thosethat are maybe highly motivated
in entering the field ofeducation as a trained
interpreter, what would be yourrecommendation to them, aside
from run, don't walk to go,purchase this guidebook.
Speaker 2 (44:54):
What to do?
Well, continue learning on,continue training, continue
looking up what is the latestpublication.
It's, you know it's.
It's a way of expanding yourmind, your, your brain, your,
your skills.
You, if you're an interpreter,you already had have a wealth of
(45:17):
skills from your flexibility,the understanding of different
cultures, being able to workwith parties that don't
necessarily share the sameculture.
So I would say, you know,continue seeking those
opportunities and continueexpanding your knowledge.
Speaker 1 (45:39):
Yeah, don't go working for education and then
not continue your own education,continue expanding.
Speaker 2 (45:48):
Yes, and it's also a very I mean you feel satisfied,
you feel like you're helpingpeople.
It's not traumatic like in amedical setting can be traumatic
like in a medical setting canbe.
It's a little more relaxed than, let's say, court situations
(46:08):
and you really feel like bothparties are very appreciative of
your skill.
Speaker 1 (46:26):
I agree so true.
Speaker 2 (46:26):
Where can our listeners purchase this book,
judy?
Where can they go to purchasethis guidebook?
They can go to the website forthe publisher,
cultureandlanguagenet, under thetab that says books.
So it'swwwcultureandlanguagenet.
That would be the best place togo.
Speaker 1 (46:47):
Definitely, and I'll make sure to link that in the
episode notes so thatindividuals can run and go get
that book and get to know whatit's like to work in education
as a trained interpreter.
Thank you for having me.
Absolutely, judy.
It has been such a privilegeand a pleasure to have you on
(47:07):
the show today.
Thank you so very much for theopportunity to get to know you,
judy, the person a little bitmore, as well as the
professional.
And thank you, I would say,from everyone out there that has
always been looking for aguidebook in this particular
field.
On behalf of all of us thathave always searched for this,
(47:28):
thank you for putting your timeand your effort and your
experience in one centralizedplace where individuals can go
and finally find that resourcethat they've been looking for
I'm sure we've all have beenlooking for for quite some time.
Thank you for that.
I appreciate you being heretoday and thank you again for
having me.
(47:49):
I've been speaking with JudyCortez, the author of
Introduction to EducationalInterpreting and Translation.
This book was published byCross-Cultural Communications
through their imprint, cultureand Language Press.
To purchase a copy, visit theironline store at
cultureandlanguagenet and, as aspecial offer for listeners of
(48:10):
this podcast.
Save $10 off your copy by usingthe promo code BTI10.
That's B-T-I and the number 10.
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