Can You Pass the 4-hour car ride test? Audacy's Tim Roberts on Coaching, Culture & Cashflow

Tim Roberts is one of radio’s most famous decorated programmers—National Country Radio Hall of Fame inductee, multi-time CMA/ACM/Marconi winner, and Radio Ink’s #1 Country Programmer for multiple years. He leads Audacy’s 23-station Country Network while overseeing Detroit’s WYCD & WOMC.

In this episode, Tim shares how he’s kept Detroit radio fresh and profitable through changing eras—by championing creativity, coaching through trust, and aligning every idea with brand value and advertiser ROI. He explains why fun beats funny, how to empower talent without smothering originality, and how today’s PDs must think like CEOs of their own brands.

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
I asked myself, would I liketo take a four hour car ride with
this person? And if so, wouldI be wanting to get out of the car
after an hour? I mean ifyou're asking them to be your companion
for four hours on a radioshow, it's the same thing.
BRANDwidth on demand,rebooting radio with a different
take on all radio can be.
The most important thing aboutour business is revenue. So is this

(00:25):
worth the investment and arewe going to make money off it? So
how are you going to make thisbrand more valuable of an asset for
whatever company you work for?Or even if it's just sole ownership,
how is this brand going to bemaking more revenue, be more lucrative
to advertisers? How are thethings that we're thinking of going
to pay off for advertisers andstill have the wonderful sparkle

(00:49):
and magic of radio?
Now your guides through themediamorphosis, David Martin and
author of the book BrandwitMedia branding coach, Kipper McGee.
He's not just programmingstations, he's programming what's
next. We're talking about TimRoberts. He's vice president of music
programming and country formatcaptain at Odyssey, leading 23 country

(01:12):
stations, the Odyssey CountryNetwork and their exclusive country
channel's coast to coast. Healso happens to be brand manager
for WYCD and WOMC in Detroit.And if there's a major event in Motor
City Radio, well, the odds arehe's behind it. From the WYCD hoedown
to the Woodward Dream Cruise,this guy knows how to put the big

(01:34):
in big market. He's a nationalCountry Radio hall of famer, multi
time cma, ACM and Marconiwinner and happens to be radio Inc's
number one country programmer.More years than most PDs last in
the business. He's really seenit all, adapted to all of it and
he's still way out front.Branglam On Demand is proud to welcome

(01:55):
Tim Roberts.
Thank you gentlemen. Afterthat intro, I'm ready to take the
curtain call. Already? I can'tdo better than that.
I think you can. I hope you dobecause we got some big questions
for you, Tim. Starting withwhat separates the talent who last
in the biz from those who justsound good. In other words, what

(02:18):
traits do you look for insomeone that you're willing to bet
on?
I think it's someone who has agreat personality, someone that's
relatable, someone thatconnects emotionally with other people.
I think I'm not going to sayyou're born with it because you can
definitely learn how to bebetter at it, for sure. But I think
you have to be a likableperson. You know, it kind of starts

(02:40):
there. I can tell you thatafter having interviewed literally
maybe 10 or 15,000 people inmy life for on the air, I get a good
sense about it. And I don'tknow if it's because I'm old or because
I've interviewed so manypeople, I'm not really sure, but
I get a good sense of it. Justthe first time I ever talk to them,
like, this is going to workout. And some people you can just

(03:04):
see that are diamonds. Andusually it's because they're also
creative. They have fun ideas,they like to have fun. I think we
all got into the radio orentertainment business to have fun.
And I think that trait isstill incredibly important as well
as being funny, whichsometimes can be learned. But sometimes

(03:24):
people are born and they'rejust funnier than other people.
So as you're working withpeople, what do you find really makes
someone malleable? What makesthem coachable?
I ask myself, would I like totake a four hour car ride with this
person? And if so, would I bewanting to get out of the car after
an hour? I mean, so if youthink about it, if you're asking

(03:45):
them to be your companion forfour hours on a radio show, it's
the same thing. Could you ridein the car for four hours with this
person, not have them drivingyou batty? And I think that's kind
of a side way of looking atit. But I think there is some sense
to it. And I think the factthat there's a couple of punch words
that I look for in people andtell it interesting, entertaining,

(04:09):
fun, funny. If they have thecomedic sense, they don't have to.
I think more people are funthan funny. You know, over the years,
there's probably just ahandful of people that you could
truly say, man, that guy is orthat girl is really funny. I mean,
because they have like acomedic sense of timing. And some
of that is just innate talent.Some of it can be learned. You can

(04:33):
learn to be funnier. Butnothing is worse than trying to be
really funny when you're not.And there's a lot, a little bit too
much of forced humor, I think.I think natural funniness and laughter
is contagious as opposed toforced laughter where you feel like,
okay, it's like watching a badsitcom with a laugh track. It's not
that great.

(04:54):
Yeah, yeah,
Tim, how can those new to thebusiness stay Relevant in a format
that values familiarity. Imean, what's the secret to bringing
fresh energy to heritage brands?
I think you have to becreative. That is just absolutely
essential. And because ofsocial media, we have so many more
platforms to be creative in.So you can try different things and

(05:16):
different tactics with eachdifferent social platform. Instead
of posting one size fits allto every platform, which was what
a lot of people do, sometimesyou need to custom it for the platform.
That's sort of a little tip.But I think the other thing that
you need to think about islike a strategy. It's like, where
are you going? You know, Ithink about Taylor Swift at the beginning

(05:39):
of her career and how she wasgetting creative and trying different
things. And I'm proud to saywe were one of the first radio stations
ever to play her music. And Iwas just reminiscing about that the
other day. But moreimportantly, she was a creative force,
like thinking of new things todo in concert. Like every time I

(05:59):
saw her before the show, whichwas frequently when she was, you
know, 15, 16 years old or 17,and she'd be like, tim, I'm going
to do this. Like, she wouldtell me the new thing that she thought
of. And she thought a lotabout it. It wasn't like she thought
of it that morning. Sheplanned it out way in advance. Like,
I'm in this city, we're atthis venue, I'm opening for this

(06:23):
person and I'm going to do this.
Wow.
And I think being educatedreally helps that. So reading a lot,
you know, whether it's books,you know, your Internet sources,
your show prep, all of that,and obviously local sources being
primary, I think, to radiosuccess for the most part, if you're,

(06:45):
unless you're on a networksyndicated show, which is a different
thing. But all of that adds upto funneling into the creative juices
and watching other people thatknow what they're doing. I'm always
amazed about how little talentlistens to other talent. Especially
when you're. You can listenout of your day part, you know, you

(07:08):
might not be able to if you'redoing a morning show. It's hard to
listen to other morning shows.But thanks to podcasting and all
these other great tools wehave now, yes you can. And not only
that, I mean, you know,there's things like rewind and there's
all these other things, butyou could even listen to an afternoon
show or highly successfulsyndicated show or a really funny
stand up comedian and you canget ideas. I'm not saying copy but

(07:31):
use them for inspiration.
Great point. So shifting gearsto your role as format captain and
coaching all of the youngprogrammers or even experienced veteran
programmers that are outthere, what skills are you leading
them to today that you thinkthat PDs have to master? That really

(07:52):
wasn't, say on the charts,wasn't all that critical five, 10
years ago?
I absolutely think the mostimportant thing are people skills.
You're managing people andyou're trying to get the most out
of them. And I think in an erawhen we grew up where it was almost
tyrannical leadership at thetop and a lot of radio stations like

(08:14):
scary leadership, kind oflike, if I don't perform well, I'm
going to get blown outtomorrow. And I think you have to
empower people to have thecourage to try new things and be
creative, because if you havea stifling environment, you're not
going to get there. Itultimately is not going to work.
And I think it's superimportant to be creative and make

(08:34):
work fun and let people trythings and be part of the brainstorming
creative strategy to helpthem. So as the format captain, I
try to empower my brandmanagers and their teams to be in
that environment.
So, Tim, do you see the roleevolving beyond the strategic end

(08:58):
of coaching talent? And whatother things should a program director
or brand manager be thinkingabout now in terms of staying relevant
for their job three, four,five years down the road?
Well, the most important thingabout our business in commercial
radio is revenue. So I thinkyou have to look at everything a

(09:20):
little differently than weever did before from the standpoint
of, like, is this worth theinvestment and are we going to make
money off of it? That includestalent, the brand strategy. I like
the fact that we call ourprogram directors now brand managers,
because that's really what it is.
Yes.
So how are you going to makethis brand more valuable of an asset

(09:42):
for whatever company you workfor? Or even if it's just sole ownership,
it's still the same thing,Right. How is this brand going to
be making more revenue, bemore lucrative to advertisers? How
are the things that we'rethinking of going to pay off for
advertisers? And how can wemake it all work together synergistically

(10:02):
to be incredible on the airand still have the wonderful sparkle
and magic of radio? So I thinkit's all tied together, but I do
think that strategy issomething that we were not prepared
for. For those of us that gotin on certain years that I don't
even want to mention long agoand far in a land far, far away.

(10:23):
Yes.
But I do think that we cameinto like a pure programming setup.
Like just think about this anddon't worry about anything else.
We'll take care of that part.And obviously it's massively evolved
as, you know, other mediumsbecame more prevalent, the birth
of the Internet, all thesocial media, you know, you can get
music in a million differentplaces, but how is it packaged and

(10:47):
presented on the air to makeit a synergistic, beautiful product
that people want to consume?And that's really where we're at
now. So we're competingagainst everyone in the entertainment
business.
Well, Tim, how do you balancestation strategy with giving some
creative freedom to yourtalent? I mean, how can newer talent

(11:08):
build their brand withoutstepping on the format?
Well, that's where socialmedia really can help because you
could be doing a podcast thathas completely topics and content
that isn't on the air, that isreaching a different set of audience.
So you could touch people withthat. You can have a different strategy
on Instagram or TikTok thanyou would on the air and then be

(11:32):
serving a different type ofpresentation there. So obviously
in most of our markets we'rePPM and we're trying to be very efficient
on the air. So it comes downto being concise, entertaining and
effective in short bursts.Except in morning drive, obviously,
where you're having morecontent in most cases. So there's

(11:53):
different strategies anddifferent ways to develop your talent.
I encourage young talent totry doing improv and stand up comedy
on the side. That has nothingto do with anything other than giving
them entertainment experience.If they do theater, it's also magical.
If they're singers andperformers, it's another way to reach

(12:14):
people, but it's also anotherway to understand how to be an entertainer.
And you know, it's like thedifference between standing in front
of the class of 2025 andgiving a commencement speech or,
or talking on the radio, whichis a one on one medium. So auditorium,
speaking, stage, performing,it's all different, but it's all

(12:36):
entertainment. And the moretools you have in the toolbox these
days, the better it is. Ithink you really do have to be multifaceted.
And look, you gotta startsomewhere. So you might have just
started and took radio classesin college or something, or whatever
trade school you were at, oreven worked at the high school radio
station, but you need to thenbranch out and do other things. And

(12:57):
one of the things I'm superproud of in my career that I did
when I was younger withouteven knowing I was doing it was I
did everything. I literallyhave worked every job in the radio
station. You know, fromgeneral manager down to trying to
fix parts. Right. And I thinkthat rounded background helped me

(13:17):
be a better coach in the end.
Oh yeah, Our thanks to TimRoberts. He's one of the Odyssey
brain trust, vice president,country format captain, and the main
guy at Detroit's wycd. Knowsomeone we should interview or a
topic we ought to cover? Well,let us know. Email your suggestions

(13:37):
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(13:58):
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Coming up, Tim talks advice
Gee boss.
I can't believe how bad ourratings were again. Me neither. Super

(14:19):
Duper Johnny D. Let's go graba bite. Turn the radio off. Sure
thing, program director. Dude,your show sounds great. I just don't
get it. Ladies and gentlemen,Bump Meatless.
Oh, your music's a disaster. Ihope you understand that you need

(14:41):
Music Master just as fast asyou can.
Not that one. I just wish theanswer would come to me.
Your station sounds so bad itsound great. If you had Music Master,

(15:02):
please wake up today.
Why do the other stationssound so good?
Well, your ratings just tankedand your owner hates you. You better
get Music Master quick beforethe next book comes out or you're

(15:22):
on the chopping block. Calltoday. It's so easy to do.
I don't know man. I wish therewas an easy button for ratings.
Oh boy.
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On Demand
Tim what's the one single bestpiece of advice that you've ever
gotten.
You know, it's funny. Everyonecan't be like you, Tim. Was something
that one said to me long ago,and I didn't really understand what

(16:32):
they meant at the time. But Ithink too often young programmers
try to make other talent inthe building be like them. In other
words, I'm doing this, theyneed to do that. And this kind of
goes with the book which Iimplore everyone to read, called
Soaring with youh Strengths.It was a book that was written a

(16:53):
long time ago, but it's sorelevant. And even though some of
it's sort of cheesy andoutdated, it really is an incredible
book because you have to lookat every single person and go, what
are they good at? And then tryto amplify that in a million different
ways so that they can thriveand be great. And what do they like

(17:15):
to do? What are they into?What are they into that the audience
can relate to? Because whenyou try to force people, it'd be
like taking someone that knowsnothing about football and saying,
we want you to talk more aboutfootball. So unless they're going
to get educated about footballand come to like it, someone talking

(17:36):
about football that doesn'tknow about football, you automatically
can detect it, right? It'sjust like someone that. And we've
all heard air talent onformats where that you can tell they
don't know anything about itand they suddenly sound like a fish
out of water, and that's whatyou don't want. So I think from the
standpoint of, like, don't tryto make everyone like you is a really

(18:01):
good piece of advice that Igot a long time ago because I think
I was trying to get people tobe, I guess, more like me on the
air. And then after I realizedwhat they were talking about, I'm
like, oh, yeah, they don'toff. It's better when they're not
like me. And then we have acompletely different, very attractive

(18:22):
magazine of talent and peoplethat makes people interested in the
brand and everyone is different.
That's great advice.
So, conversely, Tim, what'sthe best advice you would give to
somebody who's hoping to mayberun a major market brand themselves
someday?

(18:43):
I would advise them to talk tothe management and find out about
the revenue goals. There's nota market manager alive that's not
implicitly tied to that. So Ithink you have to understand the
business side first andrealize that you're running a business
and it's not just you know,fun and games and. Or let them worry

(19:06):
about it. And I'm just goingto worry about the fun and games.
And then once you understandthe business side, you kind of compartmentalize
that. And then you're down tofun and games because it's your job
to provide the entertainmentvalue. But you do have to understand
that it's a business and youhave to understand the pressure that's
on the management side of thebusiness. And then you have to figure

(19:26):
out how to increase, as I saidearlier, the value of the proposition
that you're involved with thebrand and how do you increase the
brand strength? What can youdo to make that brand stronger in
your market? What can you doto make the brand stronger with advertisers?
What can the talent be doingto ally themselves with more advertisers,
more which ultimately willmake them more money and everyone

(19:47):
more money? So I think there'sthat side of the business that's
easy to forget about. And it'skind of the side of the business
that when I was younger I'd belike, I don't really want to think
about that. It's going to messmy brain up. But I think you have
to have both of thoseelements, the fun side and the business
side playing together andfigure out the happy medium. And

(20:11):
that's ultimate to survival inany situation.
Wow.
What a pleasure to have TimRoth Roberts, the guy from Odyssey,
the vice president, countryformat captainand Kemo Sabe links
to Tim stations and more allin the show notes. Just scroll down
on your phone.
As always, we want to thankour exec producer Cindy Huber and

(20:34):
associate producer Hannah Bfor booking. And coming up next.
Hey, it's Fred Jacobs. Join meon the next episode of of Brand Width.
We're going to be talkingradio from A to Z. What's working,
what's not working and how wecan continue to make this business
be great. So, hey, join me.
It'll be fun.
That's a wrap, Kipper. As TonyMoe famously said, the future lies

(20:59):
ahead. We'll talk about thefuture in the one minute martinizing.
You'll find it in the [e-mail] I'm Dave
Martin.
And I'm Kipper McGee. May allyour BRANDwidth be wide.