December 2, 2024 • 38 mins
In this episode of the Braving Business podcast, we’re joined by Jeff Gardner, a PGA award-winning innovator and entrepreneur in the golf gear industry. Jeff’s journey is one of resilience, creativity, and unyielding determination. From inventing the groundbreaking Alignment Ball Marker to navigating the challenges of entrepreneurship, Jeff proves that persistence and passion are the ultimate game-changers.
Episode Highlights:
- Jeff Gardner’s Alignment Ball Marker, a tool designed to help golfers improve their game affordably, earned the title of "Best New Product" at the 2022 PGA Show, sparking both praise and debate among golf purists.
- His path to success was anything but smooth. Jeff faced obstacles like USGA compliance challenges, trademark disputes, and navigating the complexities of international manufacturing.
- Jeff shares how his competitive drive, project management skills, and relentless research helped him overcome setbacks and keep moving forward.
- He recounts pivotal moments in his journey, including days when everything seemed on the verge of collapse and the lessons he learned about resilience and adaptability.
- Golf’s emphasis on patience and precision shaped Jeff’s entrepreneurial philosophy, influencing how he approaches life and business.
- Jeff reflects on the transformative moment of seeing his product in action and helping everyday golfers improve their game.
- A key milestone in Jeff’s journey was winning the "Best New Product" award at the PGA Show, which affirmed his hard work and innovative vision.
- He gives listeners a sneak peek into his plans for new products, emphasizing the importance of making his current venture a complete success before embarking on the next big idea.
- Jeff shares his core message: the importance of unwavering dedication to achieving your goals and embracing the challenges along the way.
Key Discussion Points:
- The story behind the Alignment Ball Marker and its impact on the golf world.
- Navigating legal challenges like trademark disputes and compliance with golf regulations.
- Lessons learned from working with international manufacturing partners.
- The role of individual competitiveness and drive in Jeff’s entrepreneurial journey.
- The transformative power of perseverance and how Jeff stayed motivated during tough times.
- Advice for aspiring entrepreneurs: "How bad do you want it?"
Quotable Moments:
- "If everybody is somebody, then nobody is anybody."
- "Never give up until all hope is lost."
Connect with Jeff:
Listener Engagement:
What inspired you most about Jeff’s story of resilience and innovation? Share your thoughts and let us know how his journey motivates you to pursue your own big ideas at https://bravingbusiness.com/contact-us
Disclaimer:
The views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of the Braving Business podcast or its hosts.
Remember to subscribe, rate, and review us wherever you get your podcasts. Stay brave!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
This episode of the Braving Business podcast is sponsored by, well, me.
(00:05):
I'm PJ Benoit and I've been in the domestic and international
logistics space for over 30 years.
If you need any assistance with transportation or logistics, my team
and I will jump at the chance to help.
Whether it be parcel shipments, e-commerce, pallets and freight, full
truckload, international air and ocean, imports, exports, warehousing and
distribution, or really anything under the logistics umbrella, we got you covered.
(00:26):
For more details, please go to ShipWithPJ.com.
That's ShipWithPJ.com.
Reach out to me there, mention you found me on this podcast for a special surprise.
And one last quick thing.
If you enjoy this episode, please stay on after the show to learn more about the
Braving Business podcast and other great episodes for you to discover.
And now let's get the show started.
(01:01):
Well, hello there.
Oh, you're back to wearing a hat.
I actually got to see the top of your head one rare moment and
that's it just like that.
I know.
I'm just airing out my, it's like an eclipse.
You don't see it very often.
It's beautiful and then you just got to move on.
I'm trying to, I'm just trying to brand.
That's all I'm trying to do, buddy.
That's it.
Yeah.
Okay.
I guess I could do the tattoo on my forehead, but you could.
(01:24):
We've talked about it.
I don't know why you're not, you know, I don't know why you're not doing that.
I'm just not dedicated, I guess.
I'm sorry.
I guess not.
Yeah.
So what's going on my friend?
How are you doing?
I am recovering.
I took a nice spill off my bike a few days ago.
Yes, I want to say that I was avoiding a child or a pet.
(01:46):
You know, just I crashed a save a life, but in fact I crashed cause I'm a fool and
was turning without my hands, which I like to do.
And I'm usually pretty good at, but apparently all it takes is one time when
you're not so good at it and bad things happen.
So, so you've suffered, you've suffered a sports related injury.
I did a sports related injury.
(02:08):
That's I, I like that I'm, I'm an athlete and I suffered a sports related injury.
Nevermind that I caused it to myself.
Yeah.
This is why I haven't had one in decades.
So, Jeff, how are you doing, buddy?
You're having, do you have any sports related injuries that we need to know about?
We got to, we got to talk.
Oh, I actually, I actually went out and in shot a 75 today at the golf course.
(02:29):
Wow.
I do that.
And I think we can end the interview right here.
If we're going to be talking about anybody shooting 75, I haven't had a
chance to shoot a 75, I have not shot 75 except for nine hole and an executive
course of that, I was going to say, you're supposed to say, would you shoot on the
back?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I was going to say, uh, I think 75 is my average when I do putt putt anyway.
(02:55):
Well, you know, Jeff is kind of in the world of golf though, just so you know.
So in fact, let's, let's learn a little bit about Mr.
Jeff Gardner, who he is our illustrious.
I'm going to throw that word out.
Guest today.
Jeff is a dedicated entrepreneur in the world of golf gear and a
PGA award winning innovator.
But you see, Jeff didn't just walk out on a golf course with an idea that
(03:16):
everyone immediately embraced.
He created a product, the alignment ball marker that helps the ordinary golfer
improve their game without breaking the bank, a product that turns heads and
probably annoyed some purists at the 2022 PGA show where for the record, he
snagged the title for best new product.
A self-proclaimed golf gear geek.
(03:38):
Thanks for making me say that tall.
Uh, he's faced off with USGA rule books, a cease and desist trademark squabble
and the wild west of international manufacturing.
Jeff story proves that nothing gets in the way of a guy with vision, a lot of
patience and a refusal to quit.
Jeff story is part Rocky Balboa part MacGyver and a hundred percent about
(04:00):
grit, guts, and a whole lot of golf.
While he's busy reinventing the game and probably annoying purists along the way.
Jeff's also cooking up his next big ideas.
This episode isn't about golf or at least not just about golf, but it's about
coming up with a big idea, figuring out how to make it come to life, taking your
shot, refusing to give up and being willing to risk failure.
(04:22):
Jeff, you are in great company here.
Thank you for joining the braving business podcast.
My pleasure to be here.
Ellis.
Jeff, thanks for being with us.
I love stories like this, a story of someone that invented something
that annoyed people.
I kind of did that too.
Uh, so did PJ.
Actually, we both have experience inventing things that, um, were out of the
(04:44):
ordinary.
I was involved in the creation of the pay by cell phone for parking.
Uh, people were used to using their, uh, um, their coins obviously to pay for
parking, but the real big idea at the time was credit card machines.
Uh, and we came up with something totally different than that.
And there were a lot of people that thought we were idiots.
Uh, and PJ invented, uh, fitting jeans, right?
(05:05):
So it's always interesting to talk to someone that, that brought something to
the market that annoyed some people.
I love that.
Uh, but let's start with, you know, what was the moment you realized that you had
this idea and it wasn't just a passing thought, but something you felt, man,
this would make a difference.
I need to bring it to life.
Um, you know, was there a spark or something that's told you, I got to do
(05:26):
this? It all starts with, like you were just saying, starts with a problem.
And if you don't have a problem to begin with, then you don't have anything to
solve.
And I was a really terrible golfer.
I was at 24 handicap.
I shot, you know, a hundred to 115 and I made an admission to be better at golf.
(05:47):
And the more I played, there's sort of a process when you're putting.
And what I realized was like, I could simplify that process if I could figure
out, you know what I mean?
Like how do I eliminate this dance where you have to hover over your golf ball
and adjust it, you're using it as an aligning device, and then you got to go
(06:09):
back and you have to look at it.
Cause you don't have visual perspective.
I was like, what can I do to simplify this down and make it easier and more
effective?
And that's the day that I came up with that idea.
I went home, I went into the barn and I started making the first prototype out
of a block of water, roofing nail and a magnet.
(06:30):
And you know, from there I built another one and then I built another one.
And I just kept refining and refining and refining, and then talking to the
USDA to figure out what the rules were and how do the rules pertain to the
product that I'm developing.
And it was like the first five that I had created were no good because they
were too large.
(06:50):
Anything that was greater than two inches by two inches by two inches was an
illegal aligning device.
So I'm like, Jesus Christ, I just spent all this time developing all of these
different variations and they're like, Nope, no good.
See you later.
And then you go back to the drawing board and you're like, how can I refine
this?
How can I condense it?
(07:10):
How can I make it as simple as possible?
How can I make it as effective, but smaller and just sort of going through
that process of making it confirm, conform to the rules of golf and still
work.
Yeah, that's very, very cool.
Did you know that you had to go to the USDA or was that like, what was that
(07:31):
like really to, to go to a governing body of something and say, Hey, you know,
I'm kind of a hack out here, but I think I got something that's going to make
everything better for everyone.
They could care less.
So like, you know, it was sort of like, I didn't want to create a product that I
was going to sell if it wasn't going to be used in every facet of the game.
(07:52):
So if it was just an aid for practicing that didn't really interest me, I wanted
it to be able to be used in tournaments and, you know, all forms of golf.
Um, and you know, like when I went to them, you know, they were, I was like,
you know, I found out pretty quick that it was very simple.
It was like, these are the dimensional sizes that you have to work within.
(08:15):
And then it was figuring out other rules of golf thereafter and how I would
conform the product to those rules as well.
Very cool.
Very cool.
So it's interesting.
No, I just, I just want to jump in.
I mean, I think it's, it's really interesting that you believed that if you
just developed something that would be used for practice, uh, it would, it
(08:39):
wouldn't have the impact, uh, the marketability.
Yeah.
It's, it's, it's interesting.
I mean, I, I, I played baseball and also my son played baseball and there are a
lot of tools that are developed that are purely for practice.
You don't bring them into a game.
And a lot of the challenge tends for, especially for kids is to be able to
bring it into a game and, and be able to move away from the, the, the, the
(09:02):
tool or the aid and be able to carry it into the game.
And it's very challenging.
And a lot of what doesn't work in my experience, and I've also coached, is
that the difference between what the device or the tool allows you to do in
practice and the speed of the game or the, the way the game is played almost
renders that tool useless in the real world.
(09:24):
So I, it's really interesting that you had that perspective.
Well, it was also for the marketability of it, right?
If I'm going to create something that's only going to be an aid, then I'm only
going after people that would just use it as a practice device rather than
everybody who played, you know, I mean, it's everybody who plays golf plays golf.
(09:45):
Not everybody who plays golf practices golf.
So like I've got a good buddy.
We actually have a bet going on right now.
He bet me this year that he'd be a lower handicap than me next year.
And it was the easiest bet I've ever taken in my life.
Cause he doesn't like to practice.
He doesn't practice.
He's never going to beat me at the bet, but it's like, there are certain people.
(10:06):
All they do is just go out and play practices and even in consideration
for the way that they play golf.
That's kind of awesome.
So you, you go, you go through the host, this whole rigmarole, you, you
talk to the USGA, you, you conform to their guidelines and to make sure that
it's something that's applicable.
What was it like to see actual common folk ha you know, fellow hackers out there,
(10:33):
uh, trying your product for the first time.
And, and how did it feel knowing that something you created was helping
them approve their game?
Well, what's great was like, uh, after I had like had my patent done, you know,
and I had done my 3d prints, I got in the car, drove down to Florida,
to shoot video, um, take pictures.
(10:55):
And then I brought a bunch of like, like beta samples with me, um, that were flawed.
Like they would break because they were 3d printed in layers and the
two spikes would snap up.
But regardless, um, I went to a course and I did like a demo thing where I was like,
people were going out to play and I'm like, Hey, I'm going to give you this.
(11:18):
I'd like you to try it.
And when you come back, you can give it back to me.
And the most flattering part of that was I think I got like a couple back.
Everybody took them.
They're like, we're not, you know, one guy actually came back and told me
how great it was, you know, but like everybody else just, just ran away with
them because they liked them.
They didn't want to give them back.
(11:39):
And like, I w I was stationed at like the beginning of the course rather than
like where everybody finished and left.
So they were like, so that was like, I was like, I was like, I was like,
so that was a very flattering moment where I'm like, Oh, if they didn't like
it, they would have thrown it at me and said, you know, this thing's a piece of
junk and, you know, but I really did enjoy that, you know, early on.
(12:04):
So, so you, you had a number of unexpected twists, including a cease and
desist order.
Oh yeah.
Not, not fun.
Um, never fun.
Tell me about that.
And, and, you know, what did it teach you and how did it impact how you
approached the journey from there?
I had a total absolute meltdown.
(12:25):
I mean, I was, you know, the decision to go to the PGA show was super last minute.
I had three weeks to design my booth, get everything ready, get everything
manufactured, produced in the car, drive down, set up, do all this stuff.
I go down there specifically to win best new product, uh, achieve that
(12:46):
goal, you know, totally burnt out.
Got to drive back from Florida.
I get home, um, on like Sunday night after the show, the show ended on Friday
and like Monday, the first call I get, you know, cause like I win best new
product, I'm like, we're off to the races and I make a million dollars.
(13:06):
Um, and the first call I get is from a guy, uh, who's in the industry and, um,
his buddy was at the show and took a picture of my booth and sent it to him.
And he goes, I have a trademark, um, that's very similar to your logo.
(13:27):
And, uh, I don't want to have to sue you, but I will if you don't change it.
And I'm like, everything I created has this icon on it.
All the product that I manufactured and hats, the shirts, everything that I just
done for my displays, my website, my social.
So I'm like, I literally.
(13:50):
Like lost my head for probably a couple hours.
And then I realized, you know, like I talked to a couple of lawyers and they're
like, aunt 50, 50, both logos look very similar.
One of them predated mine by a couple of years.
Um, and he had like a local trademark or something like that.
And I just said, screw it.
(14:11):
Screw it. I'm just going to redo it right now.
And literally I didn't go to sleep until I had redeveloped that logo.
Um, and then within two days I was, I think I was back in my car to drive
back to Florida to reshoot everything that I had just done.
(14:37):
Because I was like, you know what?
I'm not going to start off behind the eight ball.
I'll just, just suck it up.
It sucks.
Persevere and I'm a workhorse.
And, you know, I'll say like, I'm never the smartest guy in the room, but I'll
outwork you 10 days out of seven.
I mean, I'm just, I'm relentless in that.
(14:59):
And it's just cause I'm a super competitive person, you know, within
myself as well as, you know, other people.
Yeah.
No, I love the, I love the tenacity.
So, you know, that being a stumble block, stumbling block right off the,
right off the get-go, what is, what's the story of the single toughest decision
(15:21):
you've had to make to keep the business alive and what did that teach you about
yourself?
Um, realizing that, you know, like I have that expectation that I had already
achieved some level of success by winning new best new product at the PGA show.
And then I realized that nobody cared because nobody knew.
(15:44):
And, you know, like you think that you're going to have this great success.
Off of something like that.
And it didn't happen.
And I realized pretty quickly that it was all about, um, you've got to go out
and market your product.
So then I looked at, you know, all the traditional medias and all of those
(16:10):
traditional medias, golf digest, golf magazine, um, golf channel, you know,
all these, uh, traditional medias that sort of own the space, you know, they
want 25 to $50,000 to do anything.
They have a conversation with you.
And then it's like, you know, you do get to a point where you're like,
(16:31):
well, am I going to be able to make this happen?
Or do I just try to bail now, pull the shoot and sell it off to somebody?
But when I thought about it from that perspective, you know, I had
invested so much time and effort.
I mean, I couldn't even tell you the amount of physical time that I spent.
(16:55):
Building the products, uh, redeveloping stuff, you know what I mean?
You know what I mean? Doing all this design work, writing my own patent.
You know, I'd spent, you know, 10,000 hours in the span of a year and a half.
And what is that worth?
It's only worth what somebody's willing to pay me for it.
So going and finding somebody to just buy my concept or buy my product and
(17:18):
then make it their own, I would never be able to recoup what I had invested
into it in terms of time.
And I'm like, you've got to go out there and you've got to find a way to sell it.
And put a number, you know what I mean?
Like nobody can evaluate it unless you have sales.
So it's like, you just gotta go out and you got to figure out how to make it sell.
(17:39):
And that's what I started doing.
I, I found, uh, Instagram was the best way to do it.
And you know, that's what I meant.
Yeah, let me jump in.
So we, we touched on a number of themes that I think are, uh, really going to
resonate with members of the audience, whether they're inventors or, uh, they're
(18:00):
big, they have a business that requires, uh, awareness, right?
So it's you, you, you had a product that you took a long time to develop.
Uh, you developed it with precision.
You, uh, achieve the outcome you wanted to achieve with the product that is.
At best 10% of the journey.
(18:21):
And a lot of people that are in entrepreneurship failed to recognize
that having a good idea or a good product is about 10%.
It's not 50%.
Uh, in my personal experience, I'd be curious whether you would agree with that.
And, uh, the second half of my question is, okay, when you realize that having
(18:42):
a good product only got you to the starting line, not even the midway point,
the starting line, how did you keep yourself psyched up to continue the journey?
So I'm a, I'm a graphic designer.
That's what I went to school for.
That's what I've done for the last, uh, God, when I graduated 12 years ago or 13
(19:04):
years ago, um, so what I would do as a graphic designer is I would create all
of the assets that people needed to market their products.
That's what I did at work for an advertising agency.
I was an art director as a freelance designer.
Um, I worked for small businesses, uh, large corporations, nonprofits.
(19:24):
So I already knew exactly what I had to do.
It was just about, you know, in terms of getting excited to do it is I knew that
I could do it and it was just about putting, you know, digging my feet in
and, you know, putting the work in, it was all about allocating time and effort.
(19:49):
I mean, luckily for me, you know, while I was doing all this development stuff, I
was living rent free, uh, managing a property while also doing freelance
design work on the side.
So I had sort of the liberty of time and effort to do the stuff that I needed to
do, which was priceless.
(20:10):
Priceless, you know, in that respect, man.
Okay.
So first of all, I love the hustle, right?
I love, I love the, the, all the paddles going, um, all the time, right?
Try to keep, keep yourself going.
That's, that's amazing.
So a lot of people, so let's get back to the game that you've just
(20:31):
invested your entire future in.
Um, you know, golf by and large, except for when you're playing with me as a game
of patience and precision, right?
Um, how, what did you leech out of the sport to help shape the way that
you think about life with business?
(20:52):
Oh, what have I taken out of golf?
God, you know, it, I like the selfish sports, right?
I like, I don't like the team sports.
You know, one thing about golf is you can't just go and play golf.
You can't just go and blame somebody else for shooting a bad round, for missing a
(21:14):
shot, um, and you really need to be committed to a playing well and B
playing horrible and persevering over that adversity.
I, today was probably the greatest worst round I've ever shot in my life.
(21:38):
I was minus one through 13 holes.
I birdied 11, 12, 13, then went double, double, double, and then par par.
And it was like, do I just give up after the first double?
(21:58):
Do you give up after the second double?
You know, like obviously I was sort of angry, but it's like, no, you just keep
pushing forward and you've got to find it's got to be in you to get over those
challenges to keep going.
And, you know, like I find a lot of similarities with playing golf and running
(22:23):
my business.
It's like, they're not all going to be pars and birdies.
Like you're going to get, I'm dealing with bogeys right now, trying to
get my product to be mainstream, which is incredibly difficult because it's.
So difficult to get into sort of those mainstream avenues.
(22:44):
If you don't have an incredible amount of dispensable cash.
And it's like, how, how do I get around that?
Those challenges.
Yeah.
And I think that, you know, probably most of the people who are listening, who are.
Entrepreneurs or inventors probably faced that challenge.
We've had some people that have come on the show and were successful
in raising a lot of money.
I've had the opportunity to raise some money in my career.
(23:07):
At other times I had to scrape and do it on my own.
And it's a very, very different ball game when you need to scrape.
But you know what ingenuity tends to come when you kind of have to show it.
And I'm curious, you know, given that you face the challenge of having to
essentially fund this on your own.
(23:27):
I don't know if you pursued outside capital.
Yeah.
So you didn't pursue outside capital.
You decided to fund us on your own.
Was there a number in your mind where you're like, look, if I don't, you
know, I'm going to spend this much.
And if, if, if it does, if it's not there by this point, I'm cutting and running,
or are you determined that you were going to see this through?
Didn't put a number.
(23:47):
I was like, this is going to work.
I'm fucking all, I was dead broke after that PGA show.
I maxed out my credit cards.
I had no money.
I was like, but I had, I had already done a production run and I'm like,
I got to get this thing to sell.
And you know, I started doing a bunch of stuff on social media, shooting my
(24:11):
own content, posting it.
And then I went out and I found, I guess I was like, I'm going to do this.
I'm going to do this.
I'm going to do this.
And then I found, you know, just do your research.
Right.
So I went and found a bunch of golf influencers that had heavy
followings of 250 to 500,000 followers.
(24:33):
And I reached out to them and I'm like, Hey, you know, what would it cost me to
do something with you, you know, where you could, you know, put my product out
to your audience and I found a handful of guys that were really cheap.
It was like 200 bucks.
One of the first guys I worked with, you know, I created a piece of content.
I handed it off to him.
I did $10,000 in sales in one day.
(24:56):
And you know, when you get that sort of success, you're like, and that was
sort of at the beginning within, I'd say the first three months.
Um, and then once you see that you're like, that's the justification that you
need to say, I can, I can do so much more than that.
I just need to work that much harder to position it because
(25:19):
there's already interest there.
You know, if I can, if I can move the product like that in a day, um, positioning
it in the right spot, you just have to find those positions.
You have to keep finding those positions and then getting your product into those
positions to keep moving forward and, and, you know, sort of keep having that success.
(25:41):
Which is really difficult, but there, there goes back to sort of that
perseverance, right?
It's like, are you going to give up or are you going to keep going?
And before I even did this project, I mean, I had tried developing, I think
three different other things over the years, going back to when I was in
college and you always get to a point where you hit a wall and it's, there's
(26:07):
always a barrier and you, you, you have to ask yourself, is it worth it?
You know, going forward or not.
I want to, I want to mention something I think is relevant.
Um, I think that you developed or invented something that helps people
get better at something they love, something that maybe frustrates them
(26:28):
also, but that they love or that they are committed to.
Yeah.
And you spoke at the very beginning of the interview about the fact that
you were solving a problem.
And if you're not, if you don't have a problem to solve, you don't have a
business and I think that that's a hell of a statement.
And I think it's certainly accurate when you're inventing something.
It might be a little bit different in other lines of business, but I think by
(26:49):
and large it's correct and it's certainly correct when you're inventing something.
And if you're going to invent something and you're going to try to solve a
problem, the best problem to solve is a problem where you help people get
better at something they love.
Okay.
Because it's the kind of thing where if you help me get better at something I
love, I'm going to talk about it and ultimately you're not going to be able to
(27:11):
spend your way to getting word of mouth.
That's going to be nearly as valuable to you as what people are going to say to
each other word of mouth at the end of the day is what's really going to drive
growth.
You want to get, you want to get the car on the road, you want to move it
forward and then you want to coast on people love the product and they're
talking about it.
Right.
(27:32):
Yeah.
So did you factor in, I mean, as you develop this product, how much thought
did you give to the fact that, Hey, you know what, my thesis, I ha did you have
a thesis?
Did you have a thesis for why you felt not only was this a good product, but
it's a product that you were confident to the point of, by the way, I find
this to be very common among successful people that you did not have a number.
(27:55):
I asked you that question.
I fully anticipated your answer to be what it was.
You did not have a number at which you would have stopped because people were
successful and we've seen this through dozens of episodes and now we're
finishing season three.
The consistent theme is successful people don't quit.
They don't quit.
They don't see it as an option.
Yeah.
They might pivot.
They might change, but they don't quit.
(28:16):
So I found it compelling that you had that point of view and not surprising.
I also want to know, did you have a thesis where the reason you felt this
was a business you intended to pursue till I'm not going to say the bitter end,
the successful end is because you knew you were solving a problem that people
were willing to spend money to solve.
(28:37):
I tell people, because I go to trade shows, you know, when I do my whole
shtick, where I explain the product, I tell them I built it for myself.
Like the, like the first thing was like, I was like, I was like, I'm
like, my first concept was how can I simplify this process so that it's
(29:01):
easier for me to play golf better?
And then I figured if I liked it, everybody else would like it.
And that's sort of the, the, the thesis started there was like, I'm going to be
better, I'm going to prove to myself that people are going to like this product.
(29:25):
Yeah.
I, I think that a lot of, no, absolutely.
I think that a lot of inventors start out with themselves in mind, right?
Like, what can I create?
You know, here's this problem.
What can I create to make it better for me?
And I think that's the impetus that a lot of inventors kind of, kind of
(29:45):
glom onto and, and build really successful things with.
But, but you know what, PJ?
I mean, I, I, I want to challenge, not obviously can't argue with success, but
I want to challenge that as a singularly determinative thesis, because unless you
know that you are very representative of the audience that you wish to sell to.
(30:09):
You liking something, you being into something is not necessarily the right
measure, right?
I think maybe in this instance, because you love something that lots of people
love, which is golf and you love what most people, and you, your goal was to do
something that practically everyone that plays the sport aims to do, which is cut
(30:31):
strokes down and play better, right?
So the fact that you liked it probably applies here more so given the specifics
of the, the problem you were solving.
But I would be careful if you're out there in the audience and you're solving
a problem that's not quite as a clear cut as how do you cut strokes off your golf
(30:53):
game, make sure that you're not just doing something because you think it's a good
idea.
Yeah, true, true.
I was just, I mentioned that to say, normally the inventor is always the first
customer, right?
They're, they're building that for them.
That's, that's what I meant.
Fair enough.
I don't challenge that at all.
(31:14):
Let me ask you this.
I, I, I want to ask you what you learned about human nature, not, not just from,
you know, you had multiple moments here.
The moment of someone calling you about a trade bargain, sounds like he gave you a
chance.
He could have just sued.
He didn't good for him.
That guy was super turned out to be super nice because one thing that he did allow
(31:35):
me to do was to sell all the product that I had already produced.
Oh, that's awesome.
Wow.
Like I begged him, I was like, dude, please, you know, like I already sent stuff to
Amazon and I was, you know, I was like, I don't even know how to solve that problem.
And he was like, yeah, he's like, I'll give you a month.
(31:55):
Clean, just clear out everything so that nothing has that identifying mark on it,
except the product that you have.
Once you sell it out, you know, I'll give you three months to sell it out.
And I ended up doing that.
Very cool.
Very cool.
So what did you learn about human nature from, from the, the moments in this
journey, um, that you've had that and others.
(32:17):
It's it's all business and you, you keep getting refreshers on it.
Right.
So, you know, as great as my product is in, you know, I'm, I'm pretty confident
when I say that I think my product is the most innovative piece of in game golf
technology in the last 20 years, because the only thing I can think of was the,
(32:40):
uh, you know, the introduction of the rangefinder, um, because you can use
mine in play that means nothing.
Um, when it comes to editorial and, you know, for me to be in golf digest, you
know, I've tried incredibly hard to make contacts with people who, who know
(33:00):
writers to get it in front of them.
Sort of means nothing at the end of the day.
It's like, if you want to get a position in those places, you got to pay to play.
And like, one of the things that I tell people is you could have the cure for
cancer, if you don't have the advertising budget behind it, everybody's going to
keep dying.
It doesn't matter.
Um, because the, the world has changed so much because of social media that.
(33:26):
You know, everything has to have a dollar amount, um, sort of applied to it.
Like that's the one thing that I've learned tremendously since I started this,
you know, two and a half years ago, because I figured I could just sort of
knock on the right door and they'd be like, sure, of course we're going to
write about you and showcase this.
And, and you find out that it's that not the case whatsoever.
(33:50):
And that if it don't make dollars, it don't make sense.
And that's everywhere.
Yeah, no, that's, that's awesome.
So we're winding down.
So we, we kind of have a hard stop here, but wanted to ask,
looking back at this journey that you've been on so far, is there a memory or
maybe a milestone that you've passed that makes you feel true gratitude for taking
(34:11):
this leap to pursue your dream?
Um, uh, yeah, there's, there's a picture with me and my dad at the PGA show,
um, because he comes down with me every year.
Um, and I don't think I would have been able to get any of this stuff done without him.
Um, he loaned me money.
(34:33):
He was my soundboard that I could throw ideas off of, you know, he makes bras.
He's a, he's in the bra business, but he's a lifelong golfer.
Um, and my grandfather was a lifelong golfer.
And, you know, I have my passion for golf because of him and, you know, like
winning best new product and having him down at my booth every year and taking
(34:56):
him to trade shows where, you know, he doesn't really know a lot about my product.
He gets sort of the broad strokes, but he just loves, you know, I just love seeing
him there, just bullshitting and talking to people and just having a fun time.
Uh, that sort of prices.
And I guarantee you, he loves seeing you in that environment as well.
Oh yeah.
100%.
(35:17):
That's awesome.
Very cool.
Well, um, I, I thank you, Jeff, for making some time for us today.
I think you, uh, your story is going to resonate with a lot of people and I
expect we're going to get, uh, some questions for you and I'm wondering if
you'd be interested in giving away a handful of, uh, let's say two or three.
Uh, devices, uh, for people that write to us and tell us why they're most
(35:39):
worthy of, uh, of, uh, getting, getting a device, uh, that'd be really cool.
If, if not, that's okay.
But if you do, we can make that available in the show notes and people can write in.
I'll give away a dozen.
All right.
Well, that's fantastic.
So there you go.
A dozen people.
What, what do you, what, what would be cool?
I will, you know, what, what should we be asking them to tell us?
(36:00):
Uh, that's a great question.
Um, why they love golf.
Okay.
Let's do it.
Why do you love golf?
And, uh, we're, we're gonna, we're gonna raffle out a dozen, uh, to the first,
uh, well, the first dozen, not the first dozen, we're going to raffle it out.
Cause there's going to be a lot of responses.
We'll raffle out and we'll give out a dozen.
(36:21):
Uh, Jeff, it's a, it's a super pleasure to meet you.
Congratulations.
Uh, I'm actually, I'm going to buy one on Amazon.
You don't need to give me one.
Uh, I'm anxious to try it out.
I'm sure that it will, it will probably help me quite a bit because I know
exactly what you're talking about.
The moment where you're standing over the damn ball and you're like, are my feet
right?
Am I, am I, am I the right angle?
Is it the right position?
(36:41):
You get there and you doubt yourself.
And you make an adjustment after you made the adjustment and then you miss.
Well, I'll tell you one thing about my product is a lot of people talk about
that is they go, yeah, I use it.
And then I get over the putt and I, I'm like, no, it doesn't look right.
And I've since creating my product and using it, I like, I've convinced myself.
(37:01):
I'm like, no, you know, that it's good.
Trust yourself execute and more often than not, it actually does work.
Hey, you know what?
You know that it's good, trust yourself and execute is a hell of a, you know,
that's a hell of a statement about entrepreneurship too.
So it's a great way to end and our interview, Jeff, thank you so much.
Continued success to you.
(37:22):
The alignment ball marker.
You can find it on Amazon.
I believe you also have a website, right?
Yep.
Alignmentballmark.com and, and also at alignment ballmark on Instagram and
TikTok and YouTube.
I've got tons of videos that show features of product and how it works and, you know,
awesome.
Amazing.
(37:42):
All right.
Congratulations to continued success.
My friend.
All right.
Thanks so much, Jeff.
And that's a wrap folks.
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(38:08):
Thanks for being a part of our production and we'll see you next
time on the braving business podcast.
This episode of the Braving Business podcast is sponsored by, well, me.
(00:05):
I'm PJ Benoit and I've been in the domestic and international
logistics space for over 30 years.
If you need any assistance with transportation or logistics, my team
and I will jump at the chance to help.
Whether it be parcel shipments, e-commerce, pallets and freight, full
truckload, international air and ocean, imports, exports, warehousing and
distribution, or really anything under the logistics umbrella, we got you covered.
(00:26):
For more details, please go to ShipWithPJ.com.
That's ShipWithPJ.com.
Reach out to me there, mention you found me on this podcast for a special surprise.
And one last quick thing.
If you enjoy this episode, please stay on after the show to learn more about the
Braving Business podcast and other great episodes for you to discover.
And now let's get the show started.
(01:01):
Well, hello there.
Oh, you're back to wearing a hat.
I actually got to see the top of your head one rare moment and
that's it just like that.
I know.
I'm just airing out my, it's like an eclipse.
You don't see it very often.
It's beautiful and then you just got to move on.
I'm trying to, I'm just trying to brand.
That's all I'm trying to do, buddy.
That's it.
Yeah.
Okay.
I guess I could do the tattoo on my forehead, but you could.
(01:24):
We've talked about it.
I don't know why you're not, you know, I don't know why you're not doing that.
I'm just not dedicated, I guess.
I'm sorry.
I guess not.
Yeah.
So what's going on my friend?
How are you doing?
I am recovering.
I took a nice spill off my bike a few days ago.
Yes, I want to say that I was avoiding a child or a pet.
(01:46):
You know, just I crashed a save a life, but in fact I crashed cause I'm a fool and
was turning without my hands, which I like to do.
And I'm usually pretty good at, but apparently all it takes is one time when
you're not so good at it and bad things happen.
So, so you've suffered, you've suffered a sports related injury.
I did a sports related injury.
(02:08):
That's I, I like that I'm, I'm an athlete and I suffered a sports related injury.
Nevermind that I caused it to myself.
Yeah.
This is why I haven't had one in decades.
So, Jeff, how are you doing, buddy?
You're having, do you have any sports related injuries that we need to know about?
We got to, we got to talk.
Oh, I actually, I actually went out and in shot a 75 today at the golf course.
(02:29):
Wow.
I do that.
And I think we can end the interview right here.
If we're going to be talking about anybody shooting 75, I haven't had a
chance to shoot a 75, I have not shot 75 except for nine hole and an executive
course of that, I was going to say, you're supposed to say, would you shoot on the
back?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I was going to say, uh, I think 75 is my average when I do putt putt anyway.
(02:55):
Well, you know, Jeff is kind of in the world of golf though, just so you know.
So in fact, let's, let's learn a little bit about Mr.
Jeff Gardner, who he is our illustrious.
I'm going to throw that word out.
Guest today.
Jeff is a dedicated entrepreneur in the world of golf gear and a
PGA award winning innovator.
But you see, Jeff didn't just walk out on a golf course with an idea that
(03:16):
everyone immediately embraced.
He created a product, the alignment ball marker that helps the ordinary golfer
improve their game without breaking the bank, a product that turns heads and
probably annoyed some purists at the 2022 PGA show where for the record, he
snagged the title for best new product.
A self-proclaimed golf gear geek.
(03:38):
Thanks for making me say that tall.
Uh, he's faced off with USGA rule books, a cease and desist trademark squabble
and the wild west of international manufacturing.
Jeff story proves that nothing gets in the way of a guy with vision, a lot of
patience and a refusal to quit.
Jeff story is part Rocky Balboa part MacGyver and a hundred percent about
(04:00):
grit, guts, and a whole lot of golf.
While he's busy reinventing the game and probably annoying purists along the way.
Jeff's also cooking up his next big ideas.
This episode isn't about golf or at least not just about golf, but it's about
coming up with a big idea, figuring out how to make it come to life, taking your
shot, refusing to give up and being willing to risk failure.
(04:22):
Jeff, you are in great company here.
Thank you for joining the braving business podcast.
My pleasure to be here.
Ellis.
Jeff, thanks for being with us.
I love stories like this, a story of someone that invented something
that annoyed people.
I kind of did that too.
Uh, so did PJ.
Actually, we both have experience inventing things that, um, were out of the
(04:44):
ordinary.
I was involved in the creation of the pay by cell phone for parking.
Uh, people were used to using their, uh, um, their coins obviously to pay for
parking, but the real big idea at the time was credit card machines.
Uh, and we came up with something totally different than that.
And there were a lot of people that thought we were idiots.
Uh, and PJ invented, uh, fitting jeans, right?
(05:05):
So it's always interesting to talk to someone that, that brought something to
the market that annoyed some people.
I love that.
Uh, but let's start with, you know, what was the moment you realized that you had
this idea and it wasn't just a passing thought, but something you felt, man,
this would make a difference.
I need to bring it to life.
Um, you know, was there a spark or something that's told you, I got to do
(05:26):
this? It all starts with, like you were just saying, starts with a problem.
And if you don't have a problem to begin with, then you don't have anything to
solve.
And I was a really terrible golfer.
I was at 24 handicap.
I shot, you know, a hundred to 115 and I made an admission to be better at golf.
(05:47):
And the more I played, there's sort of a process when you're putting.
And what I realized was like, I could simplify that process if I could figure
out, you know what I mean?
Like how do I eliminate this dance where you have to hover over your golf ball
and adjust it, you're using it as an aligning device, and then you got to go
(06:09):
back and you have to look at it.
Cause you don't have visual perspective.
I was like, what can I do to simplify this down and make it easier and more
effective?
And that's the day that I came up with that idea.
I went home, I went into the barn and I started making the first prototype out
of a block of water, roofing nail and a magnet.
(06:30):
And you know, from there I built another one and then I built another one.
And I just kept refining and refining and refining, and then talking to the
USDA to figure out what the rules were and how do the rules pertain to the
product that I'm developing.
And it was like the first five that I had created were no good because they
were too large.
(06:50):
Anything that was greater than two inches by two inches by two inches was an
illegal aligning device.
So I'm like, Jesus Christ, I just spent all this time developing all of these
different variations and they're like, Nope, no good.
See you later.
And then you go back to the drawing board and you're like, how can I refine
this?
How can I condense it?
(07:10):
How can I make it as simple as possible?
How can I make it as effective, but smaller and just sort of going through
that process of making it confirm, conform to the rules of golf and still
work.
Yeah, that's very, very cool.
Did you know that you had to go to the USDA or was that like, what was that
(07:31):
like really to, to go to a governing body of something and say, Hey, you know,
I'm kind of a hack out here, but I think I got something that's going to make
everything better for everyone.
They could care less.
So like, you know, it was sort of like, I didn't want to create a product that I
was going to sell if it wasn't going to be used in every facet of the game.
(07:52):
So if it was just an aid for practicing that didn't really interest me, I wanted
it to be able to be used in tournaments and, you know, all forms of golf.
Um, and you know, like when I went to them, you know, they were, I was like,
you know, I found out pretty quick that it was very simple.
It was like, these are the dimensional sizes that you have to work within.
(08:15):
And then it was figuring out other rules of golf thereafter and how I would
conform the product to those rules as well.
Very cool.
Very cool.
So it's interesting.
No, I just, I just want to jump in.
I mean, I think it's, it's really interesting that you believed that if you
just developed something that would be used for practice, uh, it would, it
(08:39):
wouldn't have the impact, uh, the marketability.
Yeah.
It's, it's, it's interesting.
I mean, I, I, I played baseball and also my son played baseball and there are a
lot of tools that are developed that are purely for practice.
You don't bring them into a game.
And a lot of the challenge tends for, especially for kids is to be able to
bring it into a game and, and be able to move away from the, the, the, the
(09:02):
tool or the aid and be able to carry it into the game.
And it's very challenging.
And a lot of what doesn't work in my experience, and I've also coached, is
that the difference between what the device or the tool allows you to do in
practice and the speed of the game or the, the way the game is played almost
renders that tool useless in the real world.
(09:24):
So I, it's really interesting that you had that perspective.
Well, it was also for the marketability of it, right?
If I'm going to create something that's only going to be an aid, then I'm only
going after people that would just use it as a practice device rather than
everybody who played, you know, I mean, it's everybody who plays golf plays golf.
(09:45):
Not everybody who plays golf practices golf.
So like I've got a good buddy.
We actually have a bet going on right now.
He bet me this year that he'd be a lower handicap than me next year.
And it was the easiest bet I've ever taken in my life.
Cause he doesn't like to practice.
He doesn't practice.
He's never going to beat me at the bet, but it's like, there are certain people.
(10:06):
All they do is just go out and play practices and even in consideration
for the way that they play golf.
That's kind of awesome.
So you, you go, you go through the host, this whole rigmarole, you, you
talk to the USGA, you, you conform to their guidelines and to make sure that
it's something that's applicable.
What was it like to see actual common folk ha you know, fellow hackers out there,
(10:33):
uh, trying your product for the first time.
And, and how did it feel knowing that something you created was helping
them approve their game?
Well, what's great was like, uh, after I had like had my patent done, you know,
and I had done my 3d prints, I got in the car, drove down to Florida,
to shoot video, um, take pictures.
(10:55):
And then I brought a bunch of like, like beta samples with me, um, that were flawed.
Like they would break because they were 3d printed in layers and the
two spikes would snap up.
But regardless, um, I went to a course and I did like a demo thing where I was like,
people were going out to play and I'm like, Hey, I'm going to give you this.
(11:18):
I'd like you to try it.
And when you come back, you can give it back to me.
And the most flattering part of that was I think I got like a couple back.
Everybody took them.
They're like, we're not, you know, one guy actually came back and told me
how great it was, you know, but like everybody else just, just ran away with
them because they liked them.
They didn't want to give them back.
(11:39):
And like, I w I was stationed at like the beginning of the course rather than
like where everybody finished and left.
So they were like, so that was like, I was like, I was like, I was like,
so that was a very flattering moment where I'm like, Oh, if they didn't like
it, they would have thrown it at me and said, you know, this thing's a piece of
junk and, you know, but I really did enjoy that, you know, early on.
(12:04):
So, so you, you had a number of unexpected twists, including a cease and
desist order.
Oh yeah.
Not, not fun.
Um, never fun.
Tell me about that.
And, and, you know, what did it teach you and how did it impact how you
approached the journey from there?
I had a total absolute meltdown.
(12:25):
I mean, I was, you know, the decision to go to the PGA show was super last minute.
I had three weeks to design my booth, get everything ready, get everything
manufactured, produced in the car, drive down, set up, do all this stuff.
I go down there specifically to win best new product, uh, achieve that
(12:46):
goal, you know, totally burnt out.
Got to drive back from Florida.
I get home, um, on like Sunday night after the show, the show ended on Friday
and like Monday, the first call I get, you know, cause like I win best new
product, I'm like, we're off to the races and I make a million dollars.
(13:06):
Um, and the first call I get is from a guy, uh, who's in the industry and, um,
his buddy was at the show and took a picture of my booth and sent it to him.
And he goes, I have a trademark, um, that's very similar to your logo.
(13:27):
And, uh, I don't want to have to sue you, but I will if you don't change it.
And I'm like, everything I created has this icon on it.
All the product that I manufactured and hats, the shirts, everything that I just
done for my displays, my website, my social.
So I'm like, I literally.
(13:50):
Like lost my head for probably a couple hours.
And then I realized, you know, like I talked to a couple of lawyers and they're
like, aunt 50, 50, both logos look very similar.
One of them predated mine by a couple of years.
Um, and he had like a local trademark or something like that.
And I just said, screw it.
(14:11):
Screw it. I'm just going to redo it right now.
And literally I didn't go to sleep until I had redeveloped that logo.
Um, and then within two days I was, I think I was back in my car to drive
back to Florida to reshoot everything that I had just done.
(14:37):
Because I was like, you know what?
I'm not going to start off behind the eight ball.
I'll just, just suck it up.
It sucks.
Persevere and I'm a workhorse.
And, you know, I'll say like, I'm never the smartest guy in the room, but I'll
outwork you 10 days out of seven.
I mean, I'm just, I'm relentless in that.
(14:59):
And it's just cause I'm a super competitive person, you know, within
myself as well as, you know, other people.
Yeah.
No, I love the, I love the tenacity.
So, you know, that being a stumble block, stumbling block right off the,
right off the get-go, what is, what's the story of the single toughest decision
(15:21):
you've had to make to keep the business alive and what did that teach you about
yourself?
Um, realizing that, you know, like I have that expectation that I had already
achieved some level of success by winning new best new product at the PGA show.
And then I realized that nobody cared because nobody knew.
(15:44):
And, you know, like you think that you're going to have this great success.
Off of something like that.
And it didn't happen.
And I realized pretty quickly that it was all about, um, you've got to go out
and market your product.
So then I looked at, you know, all the traditional medias and all of those
(16:10):
traditional medias, golf digest, golf magazine, um, golf channel, you know,
all these, uh, traditional medias that sort of own the space, you know, they
want 25 to $50,000 to do anything.
They have a conversation with you.
And then it's like, you know, you do get to a point where you're like,
(16:31):
well, am I going to be able to make this happen?
Or do I just try to bail now, pull the shoot and sell it off to somebody?
But when I thought about it from that perspective, you know, I had
invested so much time and effort.
I mean, I couldn't even tell you the amount of physical time that I spent.
(16:55):
Building the products, uh, redeveloping stuff, you know what I mean?
You know what I mean? Doing all this design work, writing my own patent.
You know, I'd spent, you know, 10,000 hours in the span of a year and a half.
And what is that worth?
It's only worth what somebody's willing to pay me for it.
So going and finding somebody to just buy my concept or buy my product and
(17:18):
then make it their own, I would never be able to recoup what I had invested
into it in terms of time.
And I'm like, you've got to go out there and you've got to find a way to sell it.
And put a number, you know what I mean?
Like nobody can evaluate it unless you have sales.
So it's like, you just gotta go out and you got to figure out how to make it sell.
(17:39):
And that's what I started doing.
I, I found, uh, Instagram was the best way to do it.
And you know, that's what I meant.
Yeah, let me jump in.
So we, we touched on a number of themes that I think are, uh, really going to
resonate with members of the audience, whether they're inventors or, uh, they're
(18:00):
big, they have a business that requires, uh, awareness, right?
So it's you, you, you had a product that you took a long time to develop.
Uh, you developed it with precision.
You, uh, achieve the outcome you wanted to achieve with the product that is.
At best 10% of the journey.
(18:21):
And a lot of people that are in entrepreneurship failed to recognize
that having a good idea or a good product is about 10%.
It's not 50%.
Uh, in my personal experience, I'd be curious whether you would agree with that.
And, uh, the second half of my question is, okay, when you realize that having
(18:42):
a good product only got you to the starting line, not even the midway point,
the starting line, how did you keep yourself psyched up to continue the journey?
So I'm a, I'm a graphic designer.
That's what I went to school for.
That's what I've done for the last, uh, God, when I graduated 12 years ago or 13
(19:04):
years ago, um, so what I would do as a graphic designer is I would create all
of the assets that people needed to market their products.
That's what I did at work for an advertising agency.
I was an art director as a freelance designer.
Um, I worked for small businesses, uh, large corporations, nonprofits.
(19:24):
So I already knew exactly what I had to do.
It was just about, you know, in terms of getting excited to do it is I knew that
I could do it and it was just about putting, you know, digging my feet in
and, you know, putting the work in, it was all about allocating time and effort.
(19:49):
I mean, luckily for me, you know, while I was doing all this development stuff, I
was living rent free, uh, managing a property while also doing freelance
design work on the side.
So I had sort of the liberty of time and effort to do the stuff that I needed to
do, which was priceless.
(20:10):
Priceless, you know, in that respect, man.
Okay.
So first of all, I love the hustle, right?
I love, I love the, the, all the paddles going, um, all the time, right?
Try to keep, keep yourself going.
That's, that's amazing.
So a lot of people, so let's get back to the game that you've just
(20:31):
invested your entire future in.
Um, you know, golf by and large, except for when you're playing with me as a game
of patience and precision, right?
Um, how, what did you leech out of the sport to help shape the way that
you think about life with business?
(20:52):
Oh, what have I taken out of golf?
God, you know, it, I like the selfish sports, right?
I like, I don't like the team sports.
You know, one thing about golf is you can't just go and play golf.
You can't just go and blame somebody else for shooting a bad round, for missing a
(21:14):
shot, um, and you really need to be committed to a playing well and B
playing horrible and persevering over that adversity.
I, today was probably the greatest worst round I've ever shot in my life.
(21:38):
I was minus one through 13 holes.
I birdied 11, 12, 13, then went double, double, double, and then par par.
And it was like, do I just give up after the first double?
(21:58):
Do you give up after the second double?
You know, like obviously I was sort of angry, but it's like, no, you just keep
pushing forward and you've got to find it's got to be in you to get over those
challenges to keep going.
And, you know, like I find a lot of similarities with playing golf and running
(22:23):
my business.
It's like, they're not all going to be pars and birdies.
Like you're going to get, I'm dealing with bogeys right now, trying to
get my product to be mainstream, which is incredibly difficult because it's.
So difficult to get into sort of those mainstream avenues.
(22:44):
If you don't have an incredible amount of dispensable cash.
And it's like, how, how do I get around that?
Those challenges.
Yeah.
And I think that, you know, probably most of the people who are listening, who are.
Entrepreneurs or inventors probably faced that challenge.
We've had some people that have come on the show and were successful
in raising a lot of money.
I've had the opportunity to raise some money in my career.
(23:07):
At other times I had to scrape and do it on my own.
And it's a very, very different ball game when you need to scrape.
But you know what ingenuity tends to come when you kind of have to show it.
And I'm curious, you know, given that you face the challenge of having to
essentially fund this on your own.
(23:27):
I don't know if you pursued outside capital.
Yeah.
So you didn't pursue outside capital.
You decided to fund us on your own.
Was there a number in your mind where you're like, look, if I don't, you
know, I'm going to spend this much.
And if, if, if it does, if it's not there by this point, I'm cutting and running,
or are you determined that you were going to see this through?
Didn't put a number.
(23:47):
I was like, this is going to work.
I'm fucking all, I was dead broke after that PGA show.
I maxed out my credit cards.
I had no money.
I was like, but I had, I had already done a production run and I'm like,
I got to get this thing to sell.
And you know, I started doing a bunch of stuff on social media, shooting my
(24:11):
own content, posting it.
And then I went out and I found, I guess I was like, I'm going to do this.
I'm going to do this.
I'm going to do this.
And then I found, you know, just do your research.
Right.
So I went and found a bunch of golf influencers that had heavy
followings of 250 to 500,000 followers.
(24:33):
And I reached out to them and I'm like, Hey, you know, what would it cost me to
do something with you, you know, where you could, you know, put my product out
to your audience and I found a handful of guys that were really cheap.
It was like 200 bucks.
One of the first guys I worked with, you know, I created a piece of content.
I handed it off to him.
I did $10,000 in sales in one day.
(24:56):
And you know, when you get that sort of success, you're like, and that was
sort of at the beginning within, I'd say the first three months.
Um, and then once you see that you're like, that's the justification that you
need to say, I can, I can do so much more than that.
I just need to work that much harder to position it because
(25:19):
there's already interest there.
You know, if I can, if I can move the product like that in a day, um, positioning
it in the right spot, you just have to find those positions.
You have to keep finding those positions and then getting your product into those
positions to keep moving forward and, and, you know, sort of keep having that success.
(25:41):
Which is really difficult, but there, there goes back to sort of that
perseverance, right?
It's like, are you going to give up or are you going to keep going?
And before I even did this project, I mean, I had tried developing, I think
three different other things over the years, going back to when I was in
college and you always get to a point where you hit a wall and it's, there's
(26:07):
always a barrier and you, you, you have to ask yourself, is it worth it?
You know, going forward or not.
I want to, I want to mention something I think is relevant.
Um, I think that you developed or invented something that helps people
get better at something they love, something that maybe frustrates them
(26:28):
also, but that they love or that they are committed to.
Yeah.
And you spoke at the very beginning of the interview about the fact that
you were solving a problem.
And if you're not, if you don't have a problem to solve, you don't have a
business and I think that that's a hell of a statement.
And I think it's certainly accurate when you're inventing something.
It might be a little bit different in other lines of business, but I think by
(26:49):
and large it's correct and it's certainly correct when you're inventing something.
And if you're going to invent something and you're going to try to solve a
problem, the best problem to solve is a problem where you help people get
better at something they love.
Okay.
Because it's the kind of thing where if you help me get better at something I
love, I'm going to talk about it and ultimately you're not going to be able to
(27:11):
spend your way to getting word of mouth.
That's going to be nearly as valuable to you as what people are going to say to
each other word of mouth at the end of the day is what's really going to drive
growth.
You want to get, you want to get the car on the road, you want to move it
forward and then you want to coast on people love the product and they're
talking about it.
Right.
(27:32):
Yeah.
So did you factor in, I mean, as you develop this product, how much thought
did you give to the fact that, Hey, you know what, my thesis, I ha did you have
a thesis?
Did you have a thesis for why you felt not only was this a good product, but
it's a product that you were confident to the point of, by the way, I find
this to be very common among successful people that you did not have a number.
(27:55):
I asked you that question.
I fully anticipated your answer to be what it was.
You did not have a number at which you would have stopped because people were
successful and we've seen this through dozens of episodes and now we're
finishing season three.
The consistent theme is successful people don't quit.
They don't quit.
They don't see it as an option.
Yeah.
They might pivot.
They might change, but they don't quit.
(28:16):
So I found it compelling that you had that point of view and not surprising.
I also want to know, did you have a thesis where the reason you felt this
was a business you intended to pursue till I'm not going to say the bitter end,
the successful end is because you knew you were solving a problem that people
were willing to spend money to solve.
(28:37):
I tell people, because I go to trade shows, you know, when I do my whole
shtick, where I explain the product, I tell them I built it for myself.
Like the, like the first thing was like, I was like, I was like, I'm
like, my first concept was how can I simplify this process so that it's
(29:01):
easier for me to play golf better?
And then I figured if I liked it, everybody else would like it.
And that's sort of the, the, the thesis started there was like, I'm going to be
better, I'm going to prove to myself that people are going to like this product.
(29:25):
Yeah.
I, I think that a lot of, no, absolutely.
I think that a lot of inventors start out with themselves in mind, right?
Like, what can I create?
You know, here's this problem.
What can I create to make it better for me?
And I think that's the impetus that a lot of inventors kind of, kind of
(29:45):
glom onto and, and build really successful things with.
But, but you know what, PJ?
I mean, I, I, I want to challenge, not obviously can't argue with success, but
I want to challenge that as a singularly determinative thesis, because unless you
know that you are very representative of the audience that you wish to sell to.
(30:09):
You liking something, you being into something is not necessarily the right
measure, right?
I think maybe in this instance, because you love something that lots of people
love, which is golf and you love what most people, and you, your goal was to do
something that practically everyone that plays the sport aims to do, which is cut
(30:31):
strokes down and play better, right?
So the fact that you liked it probably applies here more so given the specifics
of the, the problem you were solving.
But I would be careful if you're out there in the audience and you're solving
a problem that's not quite as a clear cut as how do you cut strokes off your golf
(30:53):
game, make sure that you're not just doing something because you think it's a good
idea.
Yeah, true, true.
I was just, I mentioned that to say, normally the inventor is always the first
customer, right?
They're, they're building that for them.
That's, that's what I meant.
Fair enough.
I don't challenge that at all.
(31:14):
Let me ask you this.
I, I, I want to ask you what you learned about human nature, not, not just from,
you know, you had multiple moments here.
The moment of someone calling you about a trade bargain, sounds like he gave you a
chance.
He could have just sued.
He didn't good for him.
That guy was super turned out to be super nice because one thing that he did allow
(31:35):
me to do was to sell all the product that I had already produced.
Oh, that's awesome.
Wow.
Like I begged him, I was like, dude, please, you know, like I already sent stuff to
Amazon and I was, you know, I was like, I don't even know how to solve that problem.
And he was like, yeah, he's like, I'll give you a month.
(31:55):
Clean, just clear out everything so that nothing has that identifying mark on it,
except the product that you have.
Once you sell it out, you know, I'll give you three months to sell it out.
And I ended up doing that.
Very cool.
Very cool.
So what did you learn about human nature from, from the, the moments in this
journey, um, that you've had that and others.
(32:17):
It's it's all business and you, you keep getting refreshers on it.
Right.
So, you know, as great as my product is in, you know, I'm, I'm pretty confident
when I say that I think my product is the most innovative piece of in game golf
technology in the last 20 years, because the only thing I can think of was the,
(32:40):
uh, you know, the introduction of the rangefinder, um, because you can use
mine in play that means nothing.
Um, when it comes to editorial and, you know, for me to be in golf digest, you
know, I've tried incredibly hard to make contacts with people who, who know
(33:00):
writers to get it in front of them.
Sort of means nothing at the end of the day.
It's like, if you want to get a position in those places, you got to pay to play.
And like, one of the things that I tell people is you could have the cure for
cancer, if you don't have the advertising budget behind it, everybody's going to
keep dying.
It doesn't matter.
Um, because the, the world has changed so much because of social media that.
(33:26):
You know, everything has to have a dollar amount, um, sort of applied to it.
Like that's the one thing that I've learned tremendously since I started this,
you know, two and a half years ago, because I figured I could just sort of
knock on the right door and they'd be like, sure, of course we're going to
write about you and showcase this.
And, and you find out that it's that not the case whatsoever.
(33:50):
And that if it don't make dollars, it don't make sense.
And that's everywhere.
Yeah, no, that's, that's awesome.
So we're winding down.
So we, we kind of have a hard stop here, but wanted to ask,
looking back at this journey that you've been on so far, is there a memory or
maybe a milestone that you've passed that makes you feel true gratitude for taking
(34:11):
this leap to pursue your dream?
Um, uh, yeah, there's, there's a picture with me and my dad at the PGA show,
um, because he comes down with me every year.
Um, and I don't think I would have been able to get any of this stuff done without him.
Um, he loaned me money.
(34:33):
He was my soundboard that I could throw ideas off of, you know, he makes bras.
He's a, he's in the bra business, but he's a lifelong golfer.
Um, and my grandfather was a lifelong golfer.
And, you know, I have my passion for golf because of him and, you know, like
winning best new product and having him down at my booth every year and taking
(34:56):
him to trade shows where, you know, he doesn't really know a lot about my product.
He gets sort of the broad strokes, but he just loves, you know, I just love seeing
him there, just bullshitting and talking to people and just having a fun time.
Uh, that sort of prices.
And I guarantee you, he loves seeing you in that environment as well.
Oh yeah.
100%.
(35:17):
That's awesome.
Very cool.
Well, um, I, I thank you, Jeff, for making some time for us today.
I think you, uh, your story is going to resonate with a lot of people and I
expect we're going to get, uh, some questions for you and I'm wondering if
you'd be interested in giving away a handful of, uh, let's say two or three.
Uh, devices, uh, for people that write to us and tell us why they're most
(35:39):
worthy of, uh, of, uh, getting, getting a device, uh, that'd be really cool.
If, if not, that's okay.
But if you do, we can make that available in the show notes and people can write in.
I'll give away a dozen.
All right.
Well, that's fantastic.
So there you go.
A dozen people.
What, what do you, what, what would be cool?
I will, you know, what, what should we be asking them to tell us?
(36:00):
Uh, that's a great question.
Um, why they love golf.
Okay.
Let's do it.
Why do you love golf?
And, uh, we're, we're gonna, we're gonna raffle out a dozen, uh, to the first,
uh, well, the first dozen, not the first dozen, we're going to raffle it out.
Cause there's going to be a lot of responses.
We'll raffle out and we'll give out a dozen.
(36:21):
Uh, Jeff, it's a, it's a super pleasure to meet you.
Congratulations.
Uh, I'm actually, I'm going to buy one on Amazon.
You don't need to give me one.
Uh, I'm anxious to try it out.
I'm sure that it will, it will probably help me quite a bit because I know
exactly what you're talking about.
The moment where you're standing over the damn ball and you're like, are my feet
right?
Am I, am I, am I the right angle?
Is it the right position?
(36:41):
You get there and you doubt yourself.
And you make an adjustment after you made the adjustment and then you miss.
Well, I'll tell you one thing about my product is a lot of people talk about
that is they go, yeah, I use it.
And then I get over the putt and I, I'm like, no, it doesn't look right.
And I've since creating my product and using it, I like, I've convinced myself.
(37:01):
I'm like, no, you know, that it's good.
Trust yourself execute and more often than not, it actually does work.
Hey, you know what?
You know that it's good, trust yourself and execute is a hell of a, you know,
that's a hell of a statement about entrepreneurship too.
So it's a great way to end and our interview, Jeff, thank you so much.
Continued success to you.
(37:22):
The alignment ball marker.
You can find it on Amazon.
I believe you also have a website, right?
Yep.
Alignmentballmark.com and, and also at alignment ballmark on Instagram and
TikTok and YouTube.
I've got tons of videos that show features of product and how it works and, you know,
awesome.
Amazing.
(37:42):
All right.
Congratulations to continued success.
My friend.
All right.
Thanks so much, Jeff.
And that's a wrap folks.
Like what you heard, want to support the show, please follow our page on LinkedIn
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support our sponsors and soon buy our merchandise at www.bravingbusiness.com.
(38:08):
Thanks for being a part of our production and we'll see you next
time on the braving business podcast.
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