March 11, 2024 • 57 mins
Warning: This episode include discussion on child abuse. Listener and Viewer Discretion is advised.
Today Tal and PJ welcome Ray Higdon, bestselling author, esteemed keynote speaker, and CEO of The Higdon Group. Ray's journey from adversity to triumph embodies the essence of entrepreneurial resilience.
Episode Summary:
Ray Higdon shares his transformative journey from a difficult childhood, facing foreclosure and debt to establishing an Inc. 5000 company. He discusses the power of overcoming challenges, the impact of incorporating faith into business, and the importance of consistency and investing in oneself.
Key Questions:
1. Can you share the pivotal moments that led from financial despair to founding The Higdon Group?
2. What motivated your transition from network marketing to coaching and training others?
3. What vision drove the success of The Higdon Group, and how did you achieve rapid growth?
4. What are the core messages you aim to convey through your podcast, Home Business Profits?
5. How have interactions with renowned thought leaders influenced your approach to mentorship?
6. Could you elaborate on your recent faith journey and its integration into your business ethos?
7. What can attendees expect from your upcoming event, Faith Over Fear?
8. Why is consistency and self-investment critical in entrepreneurship, and how can others gauge their effectiveness in these areas?
9. How does childhood observation affect consistency, and what can be done to address this?
10. From dance novice to ballroom champion in six months, what inspired you to take up dancing?
Special Mentions:
- The Higdon Group's recognition as an Inc. 5000 fastest-growing company.
- Ray's co-mentorship in the Higdon Maxwell Mentorship Program with John Maxwell.
- Ray's upcoming event, Faith Over Fear.
Quotable Moments:
- "God gives us challenges to perfect and grow us, not to stop us."
- "The reason people aren't consistent is always based on an observation they made as a kid."
Closing Thoughts:
Ray's journey highlights the transformative power of resilience, faith, and strategic focus in entrepreneurship.
Connect with Ray:
- Facebook: [Ray Higdon Page](https://www.facebook.com/rayhigdonpage)
- Instagram: [Ray Higdon](https://www.instagram.com/rayhigdon)
- X (formerly Twitter): [@rayhigdon](https://twitter.com/rayhigdon)
- LinkedIn: [Ray Higdon](https://www.linkedin.com/in/rayhigdon)
Outro:
Thank you, Ray, for sharing your inspiring story and insights. Your determination and innovative spirit offer valuable lessons to our listeners.
Listener Engagement:
We invite listeners to share their thoughts on Ray's journey and insights. Connect with us on social media to continue the conversation, or contact us via www.bravingbusiness.com
Disclaimer:
The views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of the Braving Business Podcast or its hosts.
Remember to subscribe, rate, and review us wherever you get your podcasts. Stay brave!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hey there, I'm Tal Zlotnitsky from Ignite IT Consulting.
(00:05):
You know me from the Braving Business podcast, but when I'm not behind the mic, I'm helping
tech startups and established companies ignite their full potential.
I also help entrepreneurs and businesses in distress reset for success.
With over three decades of entrepreneurial success, I bring hands-on experience to drive
growth, navigate turnarounds, raise capital, and lead to innovation.
(00:28):
Whether it's executive coaching or strategic transformation, I'm here to turn your business
challenges into success stories.
Visit igniteitconsulting.com and let's spark that change together.
That's igniteitconsulting.com.
Your journey to business brilliance starts now.
(00:48):
This episode of the Braving Business podcast is sponsored by, well, me.
I'm PJ Benoit and I've been in the domestic and international logistics space for over
30 years.
If you need any assistance with transportation or logistics, my team and I will jump at the
chance to help.
Whether it be parcel shipments, e-commerce, pallets and freight, full truckload, international
air and ocean, imports, exports, warehousing and distribution, or really anything under
(01:11):
the logistics umbrella, we got you covered.
For more details, please go to shipwithpj.com.
That's shipwithpj.com.
Reach out to me there, mention you found me on this podcast for a special surprise.
And one last quick thing.
If you enjoy this episode, please stay on after the show to learn more about the Braving
Business podcast and other great episodes for you to discover.
(01:34):
And now let's get the show started.
A quick note of warning for this episode.
The following episode contains discussions about suicide, which may be difficult for
some listeners.
If you or someone you know are struggling, please seek professional help or contact a
helpline in your country.
Your discretion is advised.
(02:08):
Well hello there.
Hey stranger.
How goes it?
I'm good, man.
How you doing?
Good looking.
I am doing wonderful.
I'm doing wonderful.
Relaxed after a nice weekend.
Nice, nice.
I'm Dandy as always, you know my word Dandy.
It's getting warmer in Tampa.
That's always nice.
It'll be 80 degrees today, which is really awesome.
Exactly the opposite of what's going on here.
(02:28):
How was your weekend?
What did you end up doing?
My weekend was great.
I went to something called the tree burning, which is, you know, my girlfriend has a circle
of friends that has this annual tradition where they collect Christmas trees after the
holiday of course.
They don't take them out of people's, you know, family rooms.
That would be weird.
And then they burned them over several hours and there's like a potluck and it's lots of
(02:53):
fun.
Yeah.
So that was fun.
So Smokey's not there?
Smokey the bear?
Probably not there.
Smokey the bear was not there.
Not that I noticed anyway, or at least by the time we left, which was kind of early.
This is the seams to cater to the inner arsonist in us all.
Ray, how do you get rid of that?
I noticed, I told my girlfriend that her friends tend to circulate around fire a lot.
(03:17):
Like they get together around the fire pit and they do all sorts of fire.
I don't know what that's about.
I'm trying to figure that out.
It could be a Wicca thing.
I don't know.
Maybe.
Who knows?
Ray, what do you do to get rid of your, first of all, do you do live trees or do you do
fake trees?
We have a humongous fake tree we've had for a few years.
(03:37):
I think it's like, I mean, it's like 15 feet or something.
Oh my gosh.
Yeah.
That's huge.
Pre-lit.
And it's pre-lit.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, that's the way to go.
Yeah.
I gotta say after watching the trees burn, sorry to speak over you there, PJ.
I highly recommend the fake trees because these things catch fire so fast and they burn
(04:00):
so hot.
I'm going to do my public, you know, what is it?
Public announcement.
What is it called?
Safety announcement.
Safety announcement.
Yeah.
Stay away from those trees.
Although that might get in the way of next year's tree burning.
So I apologize to Erin and her friends, but I might just save your life.
(04:21):
So there you go.
Also, you gotta keep them wild.
I like the confidence in your influence level.
Well, you know, what can I say?
I mean, we are a top one half of 1% in popularity podcast nowadays.
So you know, our reach is far and wide.
In our minds.
Yes, it is.
So in our minds indeed.
Well, you know what?
I am chomping at the bed to let our wonderful listeners know who we have on today.
(04:46):
The wonderful Ray Higdon.
Do you mind if I pontificate about this gentleman?
Please pontificate.
You're a great pontificator.
My mom didn't raise no fool.
So Ray Higdon is the bestselling author of Time, Money and Freedom and is the host of
one of the most popular business podcasts in history.
(05:09):
He's a highly sought after and high energy keynote speaker.
Ray has shared the stage with other world renowned thought leaders, including Tony Robbins,
Rachel Hollis, Les Brown, Brendan Bouchard, Robert Kiyosaki, Bob Proctor, Gary Vaynerchuk,
Grant Cardone, Magic Johnson, and many more.
(05:30):
But before all that, Ray has a truly fascinating story.
He started off as the number one income earner and a thriving network marketing company before
experiencing significant headwinds, going into foreclosure, divorce and being millions
of dollars in debt.
Terrifying.
He rose from the ashes like a phoenix, founded the Higdon Group, of which he remains to today's
(05:51):
CEO.
The Higdon Group hosts live and virtual events where thousands of leaders gain knowledge
and sharpen their skills.
It has been recognized as an Inc. 5000 fastest growing company.
In addition, because clearly this man has just a ton of time on his hands, Ray has also
co-founded the Higdon Maxwell Mentorship Program, where Ray and bestselling author and leadership
(06:13):
expert John Maxwell co-mentor an elite mastermind group of high achievers.
And just a side note, my feelings are very hurt that Tal and I have not been invited to
be among these high achievers, Ray.
You know, maybe we're done.
Should I just yell for check, whatever?
Yeah, we'll keep going.
(06:33):
Over the past few years.
We'll give him the benefit of the doubt.
Of course, now he does.
Yes, you know, if we're not invited the next month, you know, maybe this episode never
airs.
It's coming.
Thank God.
I'm recording this, right?
Yes.
All right.
We have it on.
We have it on tape.
Over the last couple of years, Ray has also added a faith based mindset to the equation,
which we're fascinated to talk about because, you know, this isn't something that we normally
(06:56):
cover during our podcast, but it's exciting.
So Ray, it is an honor to have you on and welcome to the Braving Business Podcast.
I'm excited to be here.
Thanks for having me.
Ray, thanks for joining us.
You know, generally speaking, before interviews, we've had a lot of pretty amazing guests and
(07:17):
I do my online research and some guests have a lot about them and you're one of them, you
know, including a lot of video content, which was really interesting.
And I got to see some stuff that's several years old, I would say probably before your
faith journey, which we'll talk about later, and some that's more recent.
And it was quite interesting to see some of how that evolved.
(07:40):
But we're going to start really early, right?
Your journey from foreclosure and debt to building an Inc 5000 company.
I know how hard that is.
One of my startups, iControl Data, was an Inc 5000, fastest growing and it's quite an
arduous thing to be selected.
So that's an incredible journey.
(08:01):
But before that, you really went through, you know, some shit, as they say.
So can you tell us what went wrong?
And maybe tell us what steps you took on the path to recovering and rebuilding professionally
and personally.
Yeah, for sure.
So and there was in the bio, we may have messed up on our end, but there's a little there's
(08:26):
a timeline thing.
Okay, so I was I was in real estate 2004 to 2008 ish, nine ish.
And you know, just just rock and rolling.
Moving as an investor, not I was never a realtor, but moving, you know, 10 to 12 properties
a month.
(08:47):
You know, some of them I'm I mean, my, my best one, I made like 75 grand on profit.
But you know, the average was 10 15,000 per property, moved hundreds of properties had
37 rental units.
And just quite frankly, I thought I was a genius.
I mean, I thought, man, I'm the I'm the I'm the bee's knees, man.
(09:09):
And, and I'd let you know.
I was arrogant.
I if I couldn't, if I if I met you, and it wasn't obvious that I could make money off
you, I probably wouldn't talk to you very much, to be honest.
That's that's what I was.
And so I needed humbling and and I got it.
(09:31):
And so when the market changed, I realized that I wasn't as brilliant as I thought.
I didn't know what to do when the market changed.
And so I held on held on held on held on held on till everything was gone.
So I went through divorce, went through deep depression, I lost everything.
(09:54):
I was a million dollars in debt in foreclosure.
And and honestly, if I didn't have children, I probably would have killed myself, to be
honest.
And and so I was in this deep drink heavily, depression, maxing out my the credit cards
(10:15):
that I had left, wishing for things to be different.
And and it was tough.
It was tough.
It was tough times.
I avoided mirrors because I hated myself.
And yeah, man, it was it was a dark time for sure.
So what was the first step out of that?
What did it take for you to lift yourself up?
(10:36):
Because one interesting thing that we've heard a lot on our episodes are stories that sound
very much like that.
People hit rock bottom.
And what separates those that end up achieving a lot in their careers and their lives from
those that maybe don't is that those who do refuse to be defeated.
(11:00):
So I'm curious where and how did you start lifting yourself back up?
Yeah.
I mean, it was an unlikely place for me.
I never expected what what to happen to happen.
So I had someone on Facebook that I didn't know invite me to a three day seminar.
(11:22):
And I was I was still just ridiculously arrogant.
Right.
It really didn't make any sense because I literally have nothing.
Right.
I mean, I just sold furniture, my high school ring.
You know, I'm like so broke.
And she invites me to this three day seminar.
Some some people may have heard of it.
(11:43):
It's called Landmark.
And I had heard of it.
I didn't really know what it was.
But I thought, you know what, maybe this will help me make money.
And so I go there.
And day one, and it's like a you know, it's like a at least back then it was kind of like
an in your face transformational kind of, you know, self discovery deal.
(12:05):
Right.
And so day one, I realized that I had repair relationship with my dad on a to do list with
no priority.
And I grew up in a very abusive home.
And so I had a lot of resentment toward toward my dad.
And I hadn't talked to him in 13 years.
In fact, he had never met his grandsons.
Right.
They were at the time probably maybe nine and 10.
(12:29):
And and so I attend this seminar.
I'm broke, depressed, divorced, million dollars in debt and have this.
You know what?
I need to reach out to my dad because if he dies before I at least try, that wouldn't
feel great.
And so on day two, I reach out to him.
(12:50):
And a couple months later, probably, I go up to Indiana and and see him and talk to
him, you know, for the first time, long time.
And we go from nothing to something.
Now, it never became perfect.
We don't play ball together.
We don't you know, we don't go hang out, smoke cigars or anything.
But it became something from nothing.
(13:13):
And I came home and it was I was different.
And all of a sudden, I just I don't know, it was like I that forgiveness, which had
nothing to do with business.
He didn't give me a loan or anything like that.
But that opened my eyes like I'd let go of some baggage.
(13:34):
And when I came home, that's when I got started in an opportunity that I went on to make millions
of dollars with.
And so a lot of times when I'm coaching leaders, their business problem is actually a personal
problem.
And so my switch that took me from foreclosure, dead broke, all that stuff, to millions of
dollars was actually forgiveness.
(13:57):
And that's that was the switch for me.
I first of all, thank you for being so open about that.
And you're going to find a lot of commonality with myself, with Tal, with a lot of our listeners
who have gone through the same things.
It is amazing how we don't give enough focus on emotional baggage and what we carry through
(14:24):
the day.
Right.
So reconciling with your dad, right?
We all, not we all, but a lot of us have daddy issues to a certain extent.
You don't know me, but all I ever wanted to do when I was growing up was to be a dad because
my father was not there for me and I just wanted to be a dad to my kids.
And so this is right at the core of who I am.
(14:46):
And so I applaud you for having that, to be able to provide that forgiveness for your
dad.
And whether or not he wanted it, it was a gift to yourself because it's so important
when I think a lot of times I saw something actually today or yesterday where they were
(15:07):
talking about having people on the hook.
And when you have someone on, when someone does something to you, it's almost like you
have a fish on the hook.
And unless you let them go, that part of you is still just struggling there.
And to be able to let that go, to be able to have that meeting with your dad and at
(15:28):
least have some peace in the back of your mind and in that corner of your soul where
your dad resides, I think that is such a gift to you.
So I applaud you for that.
That's amazing.
Yeah, man.
I appreciate that.
Absolutely.
As I think about that, and both PJ and I have shared on this podcast that we have had challenging
(15:48):
relationships with parents, in my case, my mother, in his case, his father.
And it is generally speaking, common that forgiveness tends to be the turning point
for being able to achieve.
I don't know why that is.
Do you have a hypothesis about why that was so important in your journey?
(16:14):
Yeah.
And actually, it's actually twofold.
So one, and I studied neuroscience under Dr. Joe Dispenza and spent a lot of time with
him, was going to be one of his certified trainers at one point.
And so everything that you think about, whether it's your taxes, whether it's what's in your
(16:41):
storage unit, which is a story that's personal to me, anything that you think about is taking
energy from you.
That is a strand of energy that if you either solve it or clip it and just let it go, you
actually gain that energy back.
(17:06):
And so when I forgave and I solved that, what if I don't connect with him before he dies
question that had been in my mind, I gained energy back.
And there were just some things that let go.
This is interesting, but the second and almost as good a gift that I got from reconnecting
(17:35):
with my dad was I was maybe a year later, I had been asked to speak in Myrtle Beach.
I went up there and spoke.
And before I went on stage, I got this nudge.
It was the weirdest thing I'd ever had.
And now I get it literally all the time.
(17:55):
But at the time, I got this nudge to talk about your dad.
Now I'd never talked about my dad.
I had never been vulnerable because I was always Superman.
Look at what I've done.
Look at my Rolex.
I was just that guy.
And so I got this nudge, talk about your dad.
(18:16):
And I'm like, that's weird.
And what's even weirder is that I obeyed.
Why would I obey?
I didn't grow up in the church.
I didn't like, who's telling me this?
Why am I obeying?
I can't answer that.
But I tell that story that I just shared with you.
When I finish, the guy that had brought me up to Myrtle Beach comes walking down the
(18:37):
aisle, just tears pouring out of him, man.
He's shaking.
He's weeping.
And he said, I can't believe you just told that story.
And I'm like, yeah, man, that must have really touched you.
He said, I haven't talked to my dad in 17 years.
Tomorrow I fly out for his funeral.
(19:01):
And I'm like, whoa.
And back then I used to beat myself up a lot.
So my first reaction was, dang, I should have shared this a week ago.
What's wrong with me?
I beat myself up.
But I took that as I need to be more vulnerable.
I need to share this story.
And so I've shared that story for 13 years now.
(19:24):
And I have letter after letter, message after message, email after email with people that
reconnected with their dad, their mom, their sister, brothers, son, daughter.
I have three messages where people heard that story, reconnected with their dad, all dad
stories for some reason, and all in three and their dads died.
So they literally, if they hear that message, they reconnect with their dad.
(19:46):
If they don't, he dies and they don't.
And so I just, I got such a blessing from helping others with that kind of stuff.
And so I really, I mean, I see them as like equal one, got me out of foreclosure and got
me out of all that stuff.
But two, just the richness of completely changing someone's life by just telling them about
(20:09):
what forgiveness looks like.
So again, thank you for sharing that as well.
I mean, that's just amazing.
Sorry, my mind's all in a flutter here.
So when you see this impact, does this provide you some kind of vision that got you towards
(20:34):
founding Higdon, like founding the enterprise that you're doing now?
How does that manifest?
Yeah.
So, I mean, in the beginning, I was, after I forgave him, and I'm still in all these
things, right, I'm still, you know, divorced foreclosure, all the deep in debt, right?
(20:57):
I'm still in all those things, but I just no longer focus on them.
And I created this psychological trigger that anytime I thought about how bad my life was
or how it used to be great, I had to prospect someone.
And so I'd read a book called Go For No, and I'm like, you know what, I'm going to go for
20 nos a day every day.
And so there were really three things that I did as far as routine, okay, is went for
(21:22):
20 nos a day, my head could not hit the pillow until 20 people told me no.
And you know, that means you may have to reach out to 50 or 200 people, right?
And number two, I did a video a day.
So from July 15, 2009 to mid July 2021, I did a video a day without missing a day.
(21:44):
And so just a pretty Godwart made me a consistent dude.
And number three, self development every day.
And so, you know, those things, I was just focused on what logically will get me out
of debt, because that was my first focus.
My first focus of business for several years was not this, let me go help others, let me
(22:07):
be a shining light.
I needed to make money.
And so that was my focus at first.
It later became where I realized my fulfillment was no longer.
And you know, the first I remember 2013 was my first million dollar year.
2014 was my first million dollar month.
2015, my first million dollar day.
(22:28):
And I remember after all of these things, every single time I would hit that goal.
And I'd be like, that wasn't it.
Like I thought like, like something would burst inside of me and I would just beam like
a whatever, right?
I thought that it would change.
Like I would be like, yes, finally, I'm worthy.
(22:50):
But the million dollar year didn't, the million dollar month, and the million dollar day didn't.
And so, you know, Tony Robbins says success without fulfillment is the ultimate failure.
Right?
Zig Ziglar says, money can't buy happiness, but everyone wants to learn that on their
own, right?
Everyone wants to try, try it out first.
Right.
And, and that just was my, my case of these, you know, these successes I went after, I
(23:15):
realized that that's just not the case.
And I realized that me seeing people transform was more fulfilling.
I that, that, you know, like I got more out of that.
But there was still, I still had a lot of character flaws.
I had trust issues from just being so betrayed as a kid.
(23:36):
And I still had a lot of things that I was, that I was working on, even though from the
outside perspective, got a great family now.
You know, I, you know, my second marriage and final is amazing.
Been married 12 years now.
Like I'm from the outside, everything looks amazing, but inside I'm like, something's
missing.
Like I, I don't know.
(23:57):
I don't know what it was.
Yeah.
I, you know, I, I, PJ has already thanked you twice for, for being transparent.
It's I'm going to go ahead and echo that because what you just said, the last part is a major
factor why I chose to start this podcast.
And PJ had been PJ, I'd been a guest on PJ's other podcasts a couple of years back.
Afterwards he reached out to me and thought that I should do a podcast.
(24:17):
And for a couple of years I resisted.
And it took him reaching out to me just to happen to be in a vulnerable time where I,
I was feeling shitty.
It didn't matter what I'd accomplished in my life.
A lot of other people, my accomplishments seem wow, staggering, but inside I did not feel
accomplished.
(24:38):
I felt a lot of angst and still do from time to time.
Sure.
It's not like it's a, it's not like it's a straight path, right?
It's not like you find a way and then from that point forward, you never struggle anymore.
But I think it's mighty courageous of you to talk about that so openly.
I want to touch about on a couple of things that came up.
One is I'd like your thoughts on, cause you mentioned that you helped some people reconnect
(25:04):
and I don't know and you know, not prying into what was, what was in your relationship
with your father that caused you so much pain.
Some people, and I would say I'm one of them, have enough angst with what went wrong in
their lives in a sense that the person that they've made the difficult choice to remove
(25:25):
from their lives is toxic.
So is there a line?
You know, I mean, is there a way forward that does not include, you know, effectively finding,
you know, I don't know what to call it.
I don't know whether it's inner strength.
I don't know what it is, but moving to a place where you are able to forgive.
(25:49):
And the reason I'm bringing that up is because I think that forgiveness only works if the
other side is, wants to be forgiven, believes that they have something to apologize for.
If you're with someone who does not see it that way, that can make it very challenging.
So I'd love your thoughts on that.
It's not necessarily a business question, but I would, I would very much love your perspective
(26:12):
on that.
Hmm.
Okay.
There's, there's, there's a lot there.
So there's kind of two parts, right?
The first part of why, why, you know, did I have resentment toward them?
And second, how do I feel about forgiveness regardless of the circumstances?
(26:32):
So you know, my dad wasn't the, he wasn't the abuser.
I mean, he, he went at me a couple of times, but it was his wife.
It was my stepmom.
And so every morning for years, I was woken up by my, you know, being grabbed by the ankles,
when it gets a closet and stopped.
(26:54):
And you know, I remember going to kindergarten with bloody noses.
You know, one time I was really sick and she just had a knack of finding what foods I absolutely
hated and I hated cream of wheat.
And so I'm already not feeling good.
Eat your cream of wheat.
I go to eat it.
I vomit into the cream of wheat.
(27:16):
And when I refuse to eat the vomit, she stabs me.
And so there was a part of me as a little, as a little kid that thought, man, my dad
doesn't know this stuff.
Cause he definitely wouldn't allow it.
But at some point I came to realize that he just turned the other way.
(27:36):
There's literally no human possible way.
He didn't know.
Right.
And I remember there was one time, right, you know, tattled on her cause I thought,
you know, well, he's on my side.
He's my dad.
Right.
And he just beat the hell out of me.
So that was, you know, lesson learned.
And so that's, so that was some of the things, right?
(28:01):
At the age of 12, I had my option of stay with them, which any anywhere, you know, send
me to, you know, serious and mean anywhere, right?
But stay with them or go live with my mom in Florida.
And so of course I, you know, I got out of there.
And, um, and so when I asked this question and I was in that, that three day seminar,
(28:27):
if he died without me trying to connect to him, would I feel bad?
And for me, that answer was, yeah, I would feel bad if I didn't at least reach out.
Now I don't, I can't explain why I felt that way.
I definitely could have not, right.
I could have not felt that way.
And I think some people, you know, do that.
So for forgiveness for me, it's, it's a tricky topic in the secular world.
(28:56):
It is not tricky in the Christian world.
Okay.
Um, it's tricky in the secular.
Um, but you know, the, the gospel tells us that if you only love those who love you,
what makes you so different?
If you only forgive those who are sorry, what makes you so different?
If you, if you, you know, you know, you are to sound strange in the secular world, you're
(29:22):
to love your enemies.
You are to wish them well.
You are to, because, you know, forgiveness and I do not believe that the other person
has to be sorry.
I do not believe that you have to reconnect and be buddies, but I do believe that you
have to become aware of the energy you have around that thing and, um, and, and, and let
(29:47):
that go.
And you know, you can, you know, it's gone when you actually can genuinely wish them
well.
And, and what people don't understand that are on the other side, right.
That's holding onto that resentment and they deserve it.
And you know what?
You're right.
You're a hundred percent right.
They do deserve it.
They, they meaning they deserve your resentment.
(30:08):
They deserve your hatred.
They deserve your anger.
They deserve all of that.
But when you're on the other side of that, it is such a gift to you.
It is such a blessing to you because you stop seeing everyone else through this filter that
you've created by all the things you're holding onto.
(30:28):
So you know, for me, so I had quite a different experience than, um, then, then PJ because
like PJ was like, man, I couldn't wait to be a dad because me, I didn't know what is
a dad.
Like, I mean, what do I do?
Cause the only, my only experience with authority was negative.
(30:50):
And so like, you know, my older boys who are now, you know, 25 and 23, could I have done
a worse job with them?
I guess if I really tried, I wasn't present, I didn't know what to do.
I didn't know what's the appropriate level of discipline, right?
Because mine was so extreme and unfounded.
(31:12):
So like, I don't even know how to do this thing.
And so, you know, I do have two younger kids that fortunately for them, I've, I've learned
a lot of things.
I've done a lot of self-development.
I've, you know, a lot of prayer, um, you know, they're four and eight years old and I'm a
very different parent to them.
(31:32):
And so what people on the one side of the justified, I'm not saying you're not right
on the justified position of resentment, anger, uh, they don't get my forgiveness, right?
When you're on that side, you don't understand what's on the other side because what's on
the other side is freedom.
It's not, um, it's not honoring what they did and saying, Hey, it's okay, bro.
(31:58):
Right?
It's just like, you know, it's just like, I'm going to let this go and I wish you well.
I hope you do well.
And I do.
I hope my dad, I hope my step mom does well.
I've prayed for both of them in a loving way, not in a, they really need to, you know, and
so it really is a gift for the person that's, that's able to forgive regardless of if the
(32:21):
person is sorry or not.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Uh, that was some heavy stuff there.
Yeah.
I need to drink.
No, I'm just kidding.
Um, it's, first of all, um, I'm, I don't know you, but if I ever get the chance to meet
you, I'm going to give you a big old hug.
(32:43):
Proud of you.
Oh man.
I'll take it.
Um, I am a hugger by the way.
Uh, so proud of you for that.
The, the fact that you were able to find that forgiveness within yourself, I think is paramount
and anyone who has gone through anything, who has an adversary or someone out there
who has hurt you, that self gift that Ray's talking about is so important and I'm proud
(33:09):
of you for that.
I'm a little sad that you, you did it only because I would like to go and beat someone's
ass, right?
So I would like to go and, and, uh, help help bring some right there with you.
Bring some for four minutes and then, and then later, I don't know.
I think for me it would last longer than four minutes, but I mean, I mean, I'm not a small
(33:34):
guy so I can help out, but I, but I get it.
Right.
And it's, it's so the, the, the amount of strength that it takes in order to provide
true forgiveness, to be able to not only, you know, give thoughts, but blessings and
actually pray for your stepmom.
Uh, that's, that's quite amazing.
(33:56):
That's, that's an amazing circle of growth or not circle, but a cycle of growth that
you've had.
Um, I'll give you one more piece to that.
Okay.
Here's, here's one more piece.
This is kind of next level, right?
Um, I'm grateful for what I've been through and the reason I'm grateful for what I've
(34:16):
been through is it put me indoors.
I otherwise couldn't get in.
Okay.
And I fully believe that if you've been through some stuff, you've been through some challenges,
God has a big calling on you.
So let me give you an example.
So last, uh, I guess it's been a little bit now, maybe year before, but, uh, I was at
(34:38):
this, um, um, this, this, uh, troubled youth lunch, let's just call it that, right?
Where I'm at this troubled youth lunch and I was just visiting, just kind of, you know,
check it out.
And I said, Hey, can I talk to him?
And you know, and they, no one knows me, right?
I just asked the lady and, and someone's like, who is he?
(34:59):
And someone said he's a speaker or something.
And uh, and she, the lady says, yeah, but if you're going to talk to him, don't talk
to that table.
I'm like, that's where I'm going.
Right.
So I go over to this table and you know, these teenagers, right.
They're in and out of jail.
Some of their parents just abandoned them.
Right.
And so I'm walking up and they're like, who's this white boy?
(35:22):
Right.
That's what they're thinking.
I know.
And so I walk up and I share two stories and all of a sudden they're like, okay.
And now they're listening.
And so when I speak to kids in foster care, when I speak to troubled teenagers, when I
speak to kids who have been through abuse, I find, um, the strength of relatability of
(35:45):
me sharing what I've been through.
Because you know, for example, if you've ever talked to someone who lost a child, you can't
console them unless you lost a child.
They won't listen to you because you don't know what it's like.
That's a fact.
And, and so like when, when, you know, I believe one of our calls is to help the person you
(36:05):
used to be.
So you've been through some stuff.
You had dad wounds, you had abuse, you had trauma, you've been broke.
Like I believe you are, that was there for you to be equipped to go and help other people
going through or have gone through that same thing.
So actually I look at it.
I never wish.
I wish I had a wonderful childhood.
(36:27):
Right.
I never wish that I'm grateful for it because it created in me, you know, like this particular
activator of who, who can I help, right?
Oh, I can resonate with them.
I can relate with them.
They'll, they'll connect with me.
And I, and I just wouldn't trade that for anything.
I find that fascinating and, and I really relate to it.
(36:49):
I, last night I spoke at the university of South Florida to several, I would say probably
a couple of hundred students.
And and the topic was supposed to be, you know, what are the business, what, what kind
of business to start?
It was about what types of business, what types of startups are going to do well.
But I don't do those kinds of speaking engagements.
(37:10):
I get invited to do that, but I pivoted to what type of interpersonal skills and personal
skills I believe these young people need to cultivate in order to have a shot at achieving
success, which has got to be defined much more broadly than they build a successful
business.
And I, I, I so align with what you just said about life and the challenges that are thrown
(37:38):
at us can be viewed as happening for us and not to us.
And that's not easy.
And I've spoken about this in prior podcasts and I speak about that when I speak publicly,
it's very understandable that people that are facing significant setbacks or challenges
in their lives feel aggrieved at the moment that they are in the midst of the worst of
(38:04):
it.
Right.
When you're in the maelstrom, it's really, really hard to say, oh, this is happening
for me.
This is great.
Yes.
Yes.
However, what separates those that are capable of achieving great things in life is they
don't get stuck there.
Yeah.
They emerge out of that and come, come to a place where they're able to leverage whatever
it was that smack them in the face and make the most out of it.
(38:27):
It's the proverbial making lemonade out of lemon.
And obviously your life story is about that.
And I respect that.
And I want to pivot and that's hard to do, but I want to get to talking about some of
your perspective, some of your enormous perspective and opportunities to share wisdom with our
(38:47):
audience on business.
And I want to start with podcasting.
So you have a very successful podcast.
It's a source of inspiration for PJ and I.
We're just getting started.
We're in our second season and we have a goal.
Our goal and people that listen to the podcast probably have long ago recognized that what
we're here to do is not to glorify people.
(39:09):
We're not trying to knock people down, but our objective is to demystify entrepreneurship,
help people realize that successful people are not some super species that somehow are
above the challenges of everyday life.
They're mortals.
I'm a mortal.
And so is every successful person that walks the earth.
(39:31):
It's that we share certain characteristics and traits.
And in my experience, the reason this podcast I think resonates is that we are talking a
lot about failure and that sounds kind of counterintuitive because we are podcasting
about helping people be successful.
And yet we spent so much time talking about failure.
And a big reason why that is, is because we've discovered that a common denominator for people
(39:53):
that end up being successful is that they are resilient, they persevere and they learn.
And failure is not an end game.
It's a midway point.
So on your podcast, Home Business Profits, and as PJ mentioned, over 10 million downloads,
for those of you that don't know what that means, that is a staggering number.
That's a lot.
(40:14):
What is your goal?
What is your goal?
What are the core themes you're trying to communicate to your audience?
Okay, so I am probably the worst podcaster to model.
I'm just going to say that.
Okay.
Now you tell me.
I think our podcast probably has the most downloads and the worst execution that exists
(40:40):
in the podcast world.
Now we've been, first of all, we've been going a long time.
I started that, I think it was toward the end.
I think it was toward the beginning of 2015, I believe.
So it's been going a while and I don't do these cool interviews.
I don't do them.
I do a lot of live videos and my team takes them, puts the audio on the podcast.
(41:06):
Terrible model.
It's not great.
This is a better model.
What you're doing is better.
I'm telling you.
I'm telling you.
What I do include in the content that does go on there is good.
I do believe in my content, but as far as the model and the example, it's not great.
(41:27):
It's not great.
A year ago in November, I came to Christ and this is important for your question.
And so I didn't grow up in the church, didn't know one verse, none of that.
And so since that transformation, which is it fulfilled in me something I'd been seeking
(41:48):
for years, but I didn't know what it was.
I've changed my business.
For 10 years, we've ran an annual event.
Last year, we changed the name of it to Faith Over Fear.
And so my tagline now is I teach faith-based mindset leadership principles that work.
So I mix scripture into all of the different trainings, proverbs and just different business
(42:14):
print or biblical principles into sales, marketing, mindset leadership.
And the way that God wired me is he made me either, I am either absolutely obsessed about
something or completely repulsed by something.
Like I do not play golf, like to me to calculate that many hours, I don't want to do it.
(42:40):
Right.
And that's just me.
But I am obsessed with learning.
I'm obsessed with, I'm in the Bible every day, et cetera.
And so the content that goes on there mixes in vulnerability, faith and business principles.
That's really the three.
And those are three that I believe all people need, all entrepreneurs, I believe need all
(43:04):
three of those.
And that's what I put up there.
So people like the content, but the format, the execution, the plan, it's not that great.
And so I'm a great example of you don't have to be like everyone else or you don't have
to have it perfect for you to do good.
First of all, thank you.
(43:24):
It's very humbling for Tal and I to hear that you think we have a better set up or process
than you do.
I will tell you that the checks in the mail.
I'm also going to ask you not to cash it please, because it's going to bounce.
Hold on to it.
I'll put it in the background.
Yeah, no, I mean, it's very cool the intentionality that you have in regards to all this.
(43:49):
But to have that focus as kind of like a personal, I don't want to use the word, I guess maybe
crusade or like using that new influx of Christ in your life to try to help out others, help
the masses and in a way that is, I think novel and very, very cool.
(44:09):
You've also throughout your history, you have shared the stage, so to speak, with some of
the most prominent thought leaders in the world.
I would have some major identity crisis being up there.
(44:30):
You've also shown the capacity to kind of take a step back, look at things in a more
holistic way, which I have seen a lot of very successful entrepreneurs, Tal and I both have
seen a lot of very successful entrepreneurs be able to do.
When you're mixing in this crowd of Tony Robbins and Hollis and all these people that are world
renowned, what have you learned from them?
(44:53):
What do you take from that?
How has that shaped your approach to business and mentorship in life?
I mean, Tony, for example, it's interesting.
I had this like weird like hater envy of him back in this is probably 2013.
(45:20):
I had never actually been to one of his events and I'm like, oh, everyone's crazy about Tony,
whatever.
And then I saw him, he spoke at an event that I was speaking at and I just watched him for
like two hours and I'm like, okay, I got it.
I get it now.
He's really good.
(45:40):
He's really, really good.
And he fired me up.
And so for me, part of this is like timeline because in the past, those speakers definitely
would pump me up and get me excited, get me wanting to, you know what, I need to up level
my goals.
I need to go harder.
I need to go heavier.
(46:02):
Now I look at my, before I came to Christ, I look at that time as a very, everything's
dependent on me and I'm leaning everything on my shoulder, but it's going to be, it's
up to me.
And now life is just so different.
I spend about an hour in prayer, but spread out throughout the day and I just handle things
(46:28):
so much differently and I have so many different experiences of just miracles happening that
I didn't have anything to do with, but showed up on my doorstep.
And so it's just a different, you know, what it's done is it helped, it's all of that experience
has helped me identify what's missing in the marketplace.
(46:53):
And what's missing in the marketplace is I believe, and this is why I'm doing it, what
I'm doing, to bring faith into it, to still be excellent.
If you read the Bible, Daniel was 10 times better than the other guys that were working
alongside him with the King.
(47:13):
Joseph was a Hebrew slave, but he was so good.
His pagan master said, man, favor's really with this guy.
And so we are called the excellence and the Bible tell you Ecclesiastes 9.16, the poor
man's wisdom is despised.
So we're not supposed to be poor, right?
We're not supposed to be, you know, slackers, right?
We're not supposed to be lazy.
We're supposed to be excellent.
(47:35):
But it's not just about our efforts.
And so all of those other world renowned, better known speakers have a great message
of lean more on your own efforts, work harder, keep going.
And I believe that's a harder model than it has to be.
(47:56):
I think, Ray, what you're sharing is and I'm reflecting on what I shared last night, you
know, with the students and I didn't talk about faith.
I think that, you know, generally speaking, I've shied away from that.
I have a lot of I have a lot of feelings about that.
And I'm personally a believer.
But I tend to focus more on recommending that people find self awareness and the definition
(48:23):
of how and how they go about doing kindness as as in my view, being too significant cornerstones
and being able to live a meaningful life and achieve and then the path people choose to
get there.
I leave to them.
But I absolutely understand where you're coming from on that.
And I I think that anyone in the audience who is a seeker, whether you find it in faith
(48:48):
or you find it in meditation or you find it in reading poetry, I think it's a beautiful
thing that you go inwards, because generally speaking, that is the path.
The path out actually comes from within.
And that may not necessarily be the most obvious thing.
But that's what I've learned in my life is that I had to go in, in order to get through.
(49:10):
I want to talk about faith over fear.
You talked about that.
It's it's it's it's first tell our audience who may be interested in that, how they could
find out more.
And, you know, and I know we only have for a couple more minutes.
I'd also like to hear you talk about consistency.
That's another thing you mentioned before.
(49:30):
In fact, you gave us the quote in the pre interview, the reason people aren't consistent
is always based on an observation they made as a kid.
And I think it's a really interesting statement.
So between that and what you're what you're helping people learn and faith over fear,
what can people you know, what can people take away from that?
Since, you know, we can't change the past, what can we take away for that in terms of
(49:53):
moving our lives in the direction we want our lives to move?
Yeah.
So we all made observations as kids, all of us.
And it created programs within us, and there's a lot of different words people use for this
strongholds would be a biblical term, but strongholds or programs, paradigms they created
(50:18):
in us that are really the pilots of our life.
OK.
And so the best thing to to share what I mean here is to give an example.
So I was I was coaching this lady.
So I used to go on what's it called?
I haven't been on it in a while.
The audio thing where it's just audio.
(50:40):
Now, I forget, I forget what it's called.
But anyway, so you go on there and people get in this room and you can let people speak.
And I used to just do coaching, just random coaching.
Right.
I don't know who they are.
Come on on here.
And so this lady gets on and she shares with me that, you know, over the last whatever
(51:00):
10 years, she's you know, she would start a career, crush it.
And and then she would always find, you know what, there's something wrong here.
There's something wrong with these guys.
And she would leave.
She'd go to another thing, crush it, do really well, break records.
And then she would leave and it was just over and over and over.
Now a clubhouse was a clubhouse.
(51:22):
Yes.
Yes.
Thank you.
Thank you.
You said I was like, what is that?
What is that?
Right.
And so a pattern, right, wherever you go, there you are.
So a pattern is a lesson is repeated until it's learned.
And so and I know that your patterns are from absolutely no question.
(51:42):
They're from observations as a kid from coaching, you know, not hundreds of thousands, but thousands
of people.
And so I asked her, so her history is go somewhere, do really good, find something wrong, leave,
go somewhere and do really good, find something wrong, leave.
And I said, OK, tell me about your like, what was your relationship with your parents?
And she said, oh, they were perfect.
They're still together today.
(52:03):
They're amazing.
And so I know I also know that our memory will literally block things to protect us.
OK.
And so and I also got it that she was a little rebellious personality.
So I said, I just had to speed things up.
And so I said, it's OK if you don't remember.
Which to a rebellious personality, it actually, you know, kind of challenges them.
(52:27):
And she goes.
And we're on audio.
So I don't know, was she just in an accident?
Like she just, you know, like what's going on, right?
And so she comes back and she says, I just remembered as a little girl catching my mom
cheating on my dad.
And I'm like, got it.
That's your problem.
And she's like, what?
(52:48):
Well, as a little girl, everything was going well.
Everything was perfect.
And all of a sudden you were surprised.
And as a little girl, you vowed that'll never happen again.
I'm going to be in control next time.
So that's what you do.
As soon as things start getting well in a relationship or business or career, you get
(53:09):
out of there because you ain't going to be surprised again like that little girl was.
And so that transformed her.
And so now she is no longer like that.
And so people who struggle with consistency, it is always from an observation they made
as a kid that drew the wrong conclusion to success.
So if their parent, a really common one, if their parents were really successful and ignored
(53:34):
them, they will sabotage success because they never want their kids to feel ignored like
they were.
If their parents made a bunch of money and lost it, they will sabotage making a lot of
money because they don't want to go through the pain of losing it.
And clearly that's the only option.
Okay.
And for me even, mine was a little different.
(53:57):
My resistance to God, to even wanting to know, that's why I stayed out of the church my whole
life, my resistance to God was because of my observation of my father.
How we think about our biological father is how we think about our heavenly father.
So I thought God was mean, uncaring, I'd never be good enough, he'd never be proud of me.
So that's what I projected onto God and that's what kept him away from me.
(54:20):
When I realized that that's not the case, when she realized that it doesn't have to
be the case, when others realize that, hey, you can make money and maybe not make the
same mistakes, then they have that breakthrough and they can actually create transformation.
The Faith Over Fear event, that's our annual event.
And last year we had about 1200 people in Orlando.
(54:41):
This year we believe we'll have 2500 to 3000 in Orlando, October 31st and November 3rd.
And you can learn more at faithoverfearlive.com.
Faith Over Fear Live dot com.
Ray, I'm gonna let, I'm gonna let Tal close, but I just wanted to let you know, first of
all, fantastic having you on.
(55:01):
You're amazing.
I'm so happy to have met you.
This is, this has been enthralling for me.
And we definitely have to have you back.
There's so many things we didn't even get to in regards to business and, and your fantastic
outlook and all the programs that you're doing.
And I really want to delve into how you're going to be on Dancing with the Stars in the
near future.
So let's, you know, we'll, we'll definitely have you back on whenever your time allows.
(55:25):
We would love to have a follow up.
Be more than happy to.
All right.
Well, Tal, finish us off, buddy.
Sounds good.
I Ray, I'm grateful for your time today and I absolutely echo, we need to have you back.
It's funny, I was looking through our notes and we went through like a third of our questions.
(55:46):
So we have a lot to still talk to you about.
And we'd love to have you back.
We hope we can.
Our guest today was Ray Higdon.
He's the bestselling author of Time, Money and Freedom.
He's one of the world's most popular business podcasters.
He is an incredibly high energy keynote speaker.
If you've not seen him, go to the YouTube and watch a couple of his videos.
(56:06):
They're amazing.
And it's been a privilege.
I'm very grateful that we had you on.
And I'm sure that regardless of the fact that maybe from a business content standpoint,
we didn't cover as much as we may have wanted to.
I believe we've made an impact today and I look forward to our audience telling us about
(56:26):
that.
So please reach out to us at www.bravingbusiness.com.
There's a comment section.
Many of you sent us comments after episodes and we'd love to hear your thoughts on this
episode.
Tell us what you like.
Tell us what you'd like to see us do more of.
This was our first foray into faith-based business.
And it's a step I'm glad we took and I'm particularly glad we had the privilege of taking it with
(56:50):
someone like Ray.
So Ray, thank you so much.
My pleasure.
Thanks for having me.
And that's a wrap, folks.
Like what you heard?
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Sign up for free to our weekly blog, support our sponsors and soon buy our merchandise
(57:14):
at www.bravingbusiness.com.
Thanks for being a part of our production and we'll see you next time on the Braving
Business Podcast.
Hey there, I'm Tal Zlotnitsky from Ignite IT Consulting.
(00:05):
You know me from the Braving Business podcast, but when I'm not behind the mic, I'm helping
tech startups and established companies ignite their full potential.
I also help entrepreneurs and businesses in distress reset for success.
With over three decades of entrepreneurial success, I bring hands-on experience to drive
growth, navigate turnarounds, raise capital, and lead to innovation.
(00:28):
Whether it's executive coaching or strategic transformation, I'm here to turn your business
challenges into success stories.
Visit igniteitconsulting.com and let's spark that change together.
That's igniteitconsulting.com.
Your journey to business brilliance starts now.
(00:48):
This episode of the Braving Business podcast is sponsored by, well, me.
I'm PJ Benoit and I've been in the domestic and international logistics space for over
30 years.
If you need any assistance with transportation or logistics, my team and I will jump at the
chance to help.
Whether it be parcel shipments, e-commerce, pallets and freight, full truckload, international
air and ocean, imports, exports, warehousing and distribution, or really anything under
(01:11):
the logistics umbrella, we got you covered.
For more details, please go to shipwithpj.com.
That's shipwithpj.com.
Reach out to me there, mention you found me on this podcast for a special surprise.
And one last quick thing.
If you enjoy this episode, please stay on after the show to learn more about the Braving
Business podcast and other great episodes for you to discover.
(01:34):
And now let's get the show started.
A quick note of warning for this episode.
The following episode contains discussions about suicide, which may be difficult for
some listeners.
If you or someone you know are struggling, please seek professional help or contact a
helpline in your country.
Your discretion is advised.
(02:08):
Well hello there.
Hey stranger.
How goes it?
I'm good, man.
How you doing?
Good looking.
I am doing wonderful.
I'm doing wonderful.
Relaxed after a nice weekend.
Nice, nice.
I'm Dandy as always, you know my word Dandy.
It's getting warmer in Tampa.
That's always nice.
It'll be 80 degrees today, which is really awesome.
Exactly the opposite of what's going on here.
(02:28):
How was your weekend?
What did you end up doing?
My weekend was great.
I went to something called the tree burning, which is, you know, my girlfriend has a circle
of friends that has this annual tradition where they collect Christmas trees after the
holiday of course.
They don't take them out of people's, you know, family rooms.
That would be weird.
And then they burned them over several hours and there's like a potluck and it's lots of
(02:53):
fun.
Yeah.
So that was fun.
So Smokey's not there?
Smokey the bear?
Probably not there.
Smokey the bear was not there.
Not that I noticed anyway, or at least by the time we left, which was kind of early.
This is the seams to cater to the inner arsonist in us all.
Ray, how do you get rid of that?
I noticed, I told my girlfriend that her friends tend to circulate around fire a lot.
(03:17):
Like they get together around the fire pit and they do all sorts of fire.
I don't know what that's about.
I'm trying to figure that out.
It could be a Wicca thing.
I don't know.
Maybe.
Who knows?
Ray, what do you do to get rid of your, first of all, do you do live trees or do you do
fake trees?
We have a humongous fake tree we've had for a few years.
(03:37):
I think it's like, I mean, it's like 15 feet or something.
Oh my gosh.
Yeah.
That's huge.
Pre-lit.
And it's pre-lit.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, that's the way to go.
Yeah.
I gotta say after watching the trees burn, sorry to speak over you there, PJ.
I highly recommend the fake trees because these things catch fire so fast and they burn
(04:00):
so hot.
I'm going to do my public, you know, what is it?
Public announcement.
What is it called?
Safety announcement.
Safety announcement.
Yeah.
Stay away from those trees.
Although that might get in the way of next year's tree burning.
So I apologize to Erin and her friends, but I might just save your life.
(04:21):
So there you go.
Also, you gotta keep them wild.
I like the confidence in your influence level.
Well, you know, what can I say?
I mean, we are a top one half of 1% in popularity podcast nowadays.
So you know, our reach is far and wide.
In our minds.
Yes, it is.
So in our minds indeed.
Well, you know what?
I am chomping at the bed to let our wonderful listeners know who we have on today.
(04:46):
The wonderful Ray Higdon.
Do you mind if I pontificate about this gentleman?
Please pontificate.
You're a great pontificator.
My mom didn't raise no fool.
So Ray Higdon is the bestselling author of Time, Money and Freedom and is the host of
one of the most popular business podcasts in history.
(05:09):
He's a highly sought after and high energy keynote speaker.
Ray has shared the stage with other world renowned thought leaders, including Tony Robbins,
Rachel Hollis, Les Brown, Brendan Bouchard, Robert Kiyosaki, Bob Proctor, Gary Vaynerchuk,
Grant Cardone, Magic Johnson, and many more.
(05:30):
But before all that, Ray has a truly fascinating story.
He started off as the number one income earner and a thriving network marketing company before
experiencing significant headwinds, going into foreclosure, divorce and being millions
of dollars in debt.
Terrifying.
He rose from the ashes like a phoenix, founded the Higdon Group, of which he remains to today's
(05:51):
CEO.
The Higdon Group hosts live and virtual events where thousands of leaders gain knowledge
and sharpen their skills.
It has been recognized as an Inc. 5000 fastest growing company.
In addition, because clearly this man has just a ton of time on his hands, Ray has also
co-founded the Higdon Maxwell Mentorship Program, where Ray and bestselling author and leadership
(06:13):
expert John Maxwell co-mentor an elite mastermind group of high achievers.
And just a side note, my feelings are very hurt that Tal and I have not been invited to
be among these high achievers, Ray.
You know, maybe we're done.
Should I just yell for check, whatever?
Yeah, we'll keep going.
(06:33):
Over the past few years.
We'll give him the benefit of the doubt.
Of course, now he does.
Yes, you know, if we're not invited the next month, you know, maybe this episode never
airs.
It's coming.
Thank God.
I'm recording this, right?
Yes.
All right.
We have it on.
We have it on tape.
Over the last couple of years, Ray has also added a faith based mindset to the equation,
which we're fascinated to talk about because, you know, this isn't something that we normally
(06:56):
cover during our podcast, but it's exciting.
So Ray, it is an honor to have you on and welcome to the Braving Business Podcast.
I'm excited to be here.
Thanks for having me.
Ray, thanks for joining us.
You know, generally speaking, before interviews, we've had a lot of pretty amazing guests and
(07:17):
I do my online research and some guests have a lot about them and you're one of them, you
know, including a lot of video content, which was really interesting.
And I got to see some stuff that's several years old, I would say probably before your
faith journey, which we'll talk about later, and some that's more recent.
And it was quite interesting to see some of how that evolved.
(07:40):
But we're going to start really early, right?
Your journey from foreclosure and debt to building an Inc 5000 company.
I know how hard that is.
One of my startups, iControl Data, was an Inc 5000, fastest growing and it's quite an
arduous thing to be selected.
So that's an incredible journey.
(08:01):
But before that, you really went through, you know, some shit, as they say.
So can you tell us what went wrong?
And maybe tell us what steps you took on the path to recovering and rebuilding professionally
and personally.
Yeah, for sure.
So and there was in the bio, we may have messed up on our end, but there's a little there's
(08:26):
a timeline thing.
Okay, so I was I was in real estate 2004 to 2008 ish, nine ish.
And you know, just just rock and rolling.
Moving as an investor, not I was never a realtor, but moving, you know, 10 to 12 properties
a month.
(08:47):
You know, some of them I'm I mean, my, my best one, I made like 75 grand on profit.
But you know, the average was 10 15,000 per property, moved hundreds of properties had
37 rental units.
And just quite frankly, I thought I was a genius.
I mean, I thought, man, I'm the I'm the I'm the bee's knees, man.
(09:09):
And, and I'd let you know.
I was arrogant.
I if I couldn't, if I if I met you, and it wasn't obvious that I could make money off
you, I probably wouldn't talk to you very much, to be honest.
That's that's what I was.
And so I needed humbling and and I got it.
(09:31):
And so when the market changed, I realized that I wasn't as brilliant as I thought.
I didn't know what to do when the market changed.
And so I held on held on held on held on held on till everything was gone.
So I went through divorce, went through deep depression, I lost everything.
(09:54):
I was a million dollars in debt in foreclosure.
And and honestly, if I didn't have children, I probably would have killed myself, to be
honest.
And and so I was in this deep drink heavily, depression, maxing out my the credit cards
(10:15):
that I had left, wishing for things to be different.
And and it was tough.
It was tough.
It was tough times.
I avoided mirrors because I hated myself.
And yeah, man, it was it was a dark time for sure.
So what was the first step out of that?
What did it take for you to lift yourself up?
(10:36):
Because one interesting thing that we've heard a lot on our episodes are stories that sound
very much like that.
People hit rock bottom.
And what separates those that end up achieving a lot in their careers and their lives from
those that maybe don't is that those who do refuse to be defeated.
(11:00):
So I'm curious where and how did you start lifting yourself back up?
Yeah.
I mean, it was an unlikely place for me.
I never expected what what to happen to happen.
So I had someone on Facebook that I didn't know invite me to a three day seminar.
(11:22):
And I was I was still just ridiculously arrogant.
Right.
It really didn't make any sense because I literally have nothing.
Right.
I mean, I just sold furniture, my high school ring.
You know, I'm like so broke.
And she invites me to this three day seminar.
Some some people may have heard of it.
(11:43):
It's called Landmark.
And I had heard of it.
I didn't really know what it was.
But I thought, you know what, maybe this will help me make money.
And so I go there.
And day one, and it's like a you know, it's like a at least back then it was kind of like
an in your face transformational kind of, you know, self discovery deal.
(12:05):
Right.
And so day one, I realized that I had repair relationship with my dad on a to do list with
no priority.
And I grew up in a very abusive home.
And so I had a lot of resentment toward toward my dad.
And I hadn't talked to him in 13 years.
In fact, he had never met his grandsons.
Right.
They were at the time probably maybe nine and 10.
(12:29):
And and so I attend this seminar.
I'm broke, depressed, divorced, million dollars in debt and have this.
You know what?
I need to reach out to my dad because if he dies before I at least try, that wouldn't
feel great.
And so on day two, I reach out to him.
(12:50):
And a couple months later, probably, I go up to Indiana and and see him and talk to
him, you know, for the first time, long time.
And we go from nothing to something.
Now, it never became perfect.
We don't play ball together.
We don't you know, we don't go hang out, smoke cigars or anything.
But it became something from nothing.
(13:13):
And I came home and it was I was different.
And all of a sudden, I just I don't know, it was like I that forgiveness, which had
nothing to do with business.
He didn't give me a loan or anything like that.
But that opened my eyes like I'd let go of some baggage.
(13:34):
And when I came home, that's when I got started in an opportunity that I went on to make millions
of dollars with.
And so a lot of times when I'm coaching leaders, their business problem is actually a personal
problem.
And so my switch that took me from foreclosure, dead broke, all that stuff, to millions of
dollars was actually forgiveness.
(13:57):
And that's that was the switch for me.
I first of all, thank you for being so open about that.
And you're going to find a lot of commonality with myself, with Tal, with a lot of our listeners
who have gone through the same things.
It is amazing how we don't give enough focus on emotional baggage and what we carry through
(14:24):
the day.
Right.
So reconciling with your dad, right?
We all, not we all, but a lot of us have daddy issues to a certain extent.
You don't know me, but all I ever wanted to do when I was growing up was to be a dad because
my father was not there for me and I just wanted to be a dad to my kids.
And so this is right at the core of who I am.
(14:46):
And so I applaud you for having that, to be able to provide that forgiveness for your
dad.
And whether or not he wanted it, it was a gift to yourself because it's so important
when I think a lot of times I saw something actually today or yesterday where they were
(15:07):
talking about having people on the hook.
And when you have someone on, when someone does something to you, it's almost like you
have a fish on the hook.
And unless you let them go, that part of you is still just struggling there.
And to be able to let that go, to be able to have that meeting with your dad and at
(15:28):
least have some peace in the back of your mind and in that corner of your soul where
your dad resides, I think that is such a gift to you.
So I applaud you for that.
That's amazing.
Yeah, man.
I appreciate that.
Absolutely.
As I think about that, and both PJ and I have shared on this podcast that we have had challenging
(15:48):
relationships with parents, in my case, my mother, in his case, his father.
And it is generally speaking, common that forgiveness tends to be the turning point
for being able to achieve.
I don't know why that is.
Do you have a hypothesis about why that was so important in your journey?
(16:14):
Yeah.
And actually, it's actually twofold.
So one, and I studied neuroscience under Dr. Joe Dispenza and spent a lot of time with
him, was going to be one of his certified trainers at one point.
And so everything that you think about, whether it's your taxes, whether it's what's in your
(16:41):
storage unit, which is a story that's personal to me, anything that you think about is taking
energy from you.
That is a strand of energy that if you either solve it or clip it and just let it go, you
actually gain that energy back.
(17:06):
And so when I forgave and I solved that, what if I don't connect with him before he dies
question that had been in my mind, I gained energy back.
And there were just some things that let go.
This is interesting, but the second and almost as good a gift that I got from reconnecting
(17:35):
with my dad was I was maybe a year later, I had been asked to speak in Myrtle Beach.
I went up there and spoke.
And before I went on stage, I got this nudge.
It was the weirdest thing I'd ever had.
And now I get it literally all the time.
(17:55):
But at the time, I got this nudge to talk about your dad.
Now I'd never talked about my dad.
I had never been vulnerable because I was always Superman.
Look at what I've done.
Look at my Rolex.
I was just that guy.
And so I got this nudge, talk about your dad.
(18:16):
And I'm like, that's weird.
And what's even weirder is that I obeyed.
Why would I obey?
I didn't grow up in the church.
I didn't like, who's telling me this?
Why am I obeying?
I can't answer that.
But I tell that story that I just shared with you.
When I finish, the guy that had brought me up to Myrtle Beach comes walking down the
(18:37):
aisle, just tears pouring out of him, man.
He's shaking.
He's weeping.
And he said, I can't believe you just told that story.
And I'm like, yeah, man, that must have really touched you.
He said, I haven't talked to my dad in 17 years.
Tomorrow I fly out for his funeral.
(19:01):
And I'm like, whoa.
And back then I used to beat myself up a lot.
So my first reaction was, dang, I should have shared this a week ago.
What's wrong with me?
I beat myself up.
But I took that as I need to be more vulnerable.
I need to share this story.
And so I've shared that story for 13 years now.
(19:24):
And I have letter after letter, message after message, email after email with people that
reconnected with their dad, their mom, their sister, brothers, son, daughter.
I have three messages where people heard that story, reconnected with their dad, all dad
stories for some reason, and all in three and their dads died.
So they literally, if they hear that message, they reconnect with their dad.
(19:46):
If they don't, he dies and they don't.
And so I just, I got such a blessing from helping others with that kind of stuff.
And so I really, I mean, I see them as like equal one, got me out of foreclosure and got
me out of all that stuff.
But two, just the richness of completely changing someone's life by just telling them about
(20:09):
what forgiveness looks like.
So again, thank you for sharing that as well.
I mean, that's just amazing.
Sorry, my mind's all in a flutter here.
So when you see this impact, does this provide you some kind of vision that got you towards
(20:34):
founding Higdon, like founding the enterprise that you're doing now?
How does that manifest?
Yeah.
So, I mean, in the beginning, I was, after I forgave him, and I'm still in all these
things, right, I'm still, you know, divorced foreclosure, all the deep in debt, right?
(20:57):
I'm still in all those things, but I just no longer focus on them.
And I created this psychological trigger that anytime I thought about how bad my life was
or how it used to be great, I had to prospect someone.
And so I'd read a book called Go For No, and I'm like, you know what, I'm going to go for
20 nos a day every day.
And so there were really three things that I did as far as routine, okay, is went for
(21:22):
20 nos a day, my head could not hit the pillow until 20 people told me no.
And you know, that means you may have to reach out to 50 or 200 people, right?
And number two, I did a video a day.
So from July 15, 2009 to mid July 2021, I did a video a day without missing a day.
(21:44):
And so just a pretty Godwart made me a consistent dude.
And number three, self development every day.
And so, you know, those things, I was just focused on what logically will get me out
of debt, because that was my first focus.
My first focus of business for several years was not this, let me go help others, let me
(22:07):
be a shining light.
I needed to make money.
And so that was my focus at first.
It later became where I realized my fulfillment was no longer.
And you know, the first I remember 2013 was my first million dollar year.
2014 was my first million dollar month.
2015, my first million dollar day.
(22:28):
And I remember after all of these things, every single time I would hit that goal.
And I'd be like, that wasn't it.
Like I thought like, like something would burst inside of me and I would just beam like
a whatever, right?
I thought that it would change.
Like I would be like, yes, finally, I'm worthy.
(22:50):
But the million dollar year didn't, the million dollar month, and the million dollar day didn't.
And so, you know, Tony Robbins says success without fulfillment is the ultimate failure.
Right?
Zig Ziglar says, money can't buy happiness, but everyone wants to learn that on their
own, right?
Everyone wants to try, try it out first.
Right.
And, and that just was my, my case of these, you know, these successes I went after, I
(23:15):
realized that that's just not the case.
And I realized that me seeing people transform was more fulfilling.
I that, that, you know, like I got more out of that.
But there was still, I still had a lot of character flaws.
I had trust issues from just being so betrayed as a kid.
(23:36):
And I still had a lot of things that I was, that I was working on, even though from the
outside perspective, got a great family now.
You know, I, you know, my second marriage and final is amazing.
Been married 12 years now.
Like I'm from the outside, everything looks amazing, but inside I'm like, something's
missing.
Like I, I don't know.
(23:57):
I don't know what it was.
Yeah.
I, you know, I, I, PJ has already thanked you twice for, for being transparent.
It's I'm going to go ahead and echo that because what you just said, the last part is a major
factor why I chose to start this podcast.
And PJ had been PJ, I'd been a guest on PJ's other podcasts a couple of years back.
Afterwards he reached out to me and thought that I should do a podcast.
(24:17):
And for a couple of years I resisted.
And it took him reaching out to me just to happen to be in a vulnerable time where I,
I was feeling shitty.
It didn't matter what I'd accomplished in my life.
A lot of other people, my accomplishments seem wow, staggering, but inside I did not feel
accomplished.
(24:38):
I felt a lot of angst and still do from time to time.
Sure.
It's not like it's a, it's not like it's a straight path, right?
It's not like you find a way and then from that point forward, you never struggle anymore.
But I think it's mighty courageous of you to talk about that so openly.
I want to touch about on a couple of things that came up.
One is I'd like your thoughts on, cause you mentioned that you helped some people reconnect
(25:04):
and I don't know and you know, not prying into what was, what was in your relationship
with your father that caused you so much pain.
Some people, and I would say I'm one of them, have enough angst with what went wrong in
their lives in a sense that the person that they've made the difficult choice to remove
(25:25):
from their lives is toxic.
So is there a line?
You know, I mean, is there a way forward that does not include, you know, effectively finding,
you know, I don't know what to call it.
I don't know whether it's inner strength.
I don't know what it is, but moving to a place where you are able to forgive.
(25:49):
And the reason I'm bringing that up is because I think that forgiveness only works if the
other side is, wants to be forgiven, believes that they have something to apologize for.
If you're with someone who does not see it that way, that can make it very challenging.
So I'd love your thoughts on that.
It's not necessarily a business question, but I would, I would very much love your perspective
(26:12):
on that.
Hmm.
Okay.
There's, there's, there's a lot there.
So there's kind of two parts, right?
The first part of why, why, you know, did I have resentment toward them?
And second, how do I feel about forgiveness regardless of the circumstances?
(26:32):
So you know, my dad wasn't the, he wasn't the abuser.
I mean, he, he went at me a couple of times, but it was his wife.
It was my stepmom.
And so every morning for years, I was woken up by my, you know, being grabbed by the ankles,
when it gets a closet and stopped.
(26:54):
And you know, I remember going to kindergarten with bloody noses.
You know, one time I was really sick and she just had a knack of finding what foods I absolutely
hated and I hated cream of wheat.
And so I'm already not feeling good.
Eat your cream of wheat.
I go to eat it.
I vomit into the cream of wheat.
(27:16):
And when I refuse to eat the vomit, she stabs me.
And so there was a part of me as a little, as a little kid that thought, man, my dad
doesn't know this stuff.
Cause he definitely wouldn't allow it.
But at some point I came to realize that he just turned the other way.
(27:36):
There's literally no human possible way.
He didn't know.
Right.
And I remember there was one time, right, you know, tattled on her cause I thought,
you know, well, he's on my side.
He's my dad.
Right.
And he just beat the hell out of me.
So that was, you know, lesson learned.
And so that's, so that was some of the things, right?
(28:01):
At the age of 12, I had my option of stay with them, which any anywhere, you know, send
me to, you know, serious and mean anywhere, right?
But stay with them or go live with my mom in Florida.
And so of course I, you know, I got out of there.
And, um, and so when I asked this question and I was in that, that three day seminar,
(28:27):
if he died without me trying to connect to him, would I feel bad?
And for me, that answer was, yeah, I would feel bad if I didn't at least reach out.
Now I don't, I can't explain why I felt that way.
I definitely could have not, right.
I could have not felt that way.
And I think some people, you know, do that.
So for forgiveness for me, it's, it's a tricky topic in the secular world.
(28:56):
It is not tricky in the Christian world.
Okay.
Um, it's tricky in the secular.
Um, but you know, the, the gospel tells us that if you only love those who love you,
what makes you so different?
If you only forgive those who are sorry, what makes you so different?
If you, if you, you know, you know, you are to sound strange in the secular world, you're
(29:22):
to love your enemies.
You are to wish them well.
You are to, because, you know, forgiveness and I do not believe that the other person
has to be sorry.
I do not believe that you have to reconnect and be buddies, but I do believe that you
have to become aware of the energy you have around that thing and, um, and, and, and let
(29:47):
that go.
And you know, you can, you know, it's gone when you actually can genuinely wish them
well.
And, and what people don't understand that are on the other side, right.
That's holding onto that resentment and they deserve it.
And you know what?
You're right.
You're a hundred percent right.
They do deserve it.
They, they meaning they deserve your resentment.
(30:08):
They deserve your hatred.
They deserve your anger.
They deserve all of that.
But when you're on the other side of that, it is such a gift to you.
It is such a blessing to you because you stop seeing everyone else through this filter that
you've created by all the things you're holding onto.
(30:28):
So you know, for me, so I had quite a different experience than, um, then, then PJ because
like PJ was like, man, I couldn't wait to be a dad because me, I didn't know what is
a dad.
Like, I mean, what do I do?
Cause the only, my only experience with authority was negative.
(30:50):
And so like, you know, my older boys who are now, you know, 25 and 23, could I have done
a worse job with them?
I guess if I really tried, I wasn't present, I didn't know what to do.
I didn't know what's the appropriate level of discipline, right?
Because mine was so extreme and unfounded.
(31:12):
So like, I don't even know how to do this thing.
And so, you know, I do have two younger kids that fortunately for them, I've, I've learned
a lot of things.
I've done a lot of self-development.
I've, you know, a lot of prayer, um, you know, they're four and eight years old and I'm a
very different parent to them.
(31:32):
And so what people on the one side of the justified, I'm not saying you're not right
on the justified position of resentment, anger, uh, they don't get my forgiveness, right?
When you're on that side, you don't understand what's on the other side because what's on
the other side is freedom.
It's not, um, it's not honoring what they did and saying, Hey, it's okay, bro.
(31:58):
Right?
It's just like, you know, it's just like, I'm going to let this go and I wish you well.
I hope you do well.
And I do.
I hope my dad, I hope my step mom does well.
I've prayed for both of them in a loving way, not in a, they really need to, you know, and
so it really is a gift for the person that's, that's able to forgive regardless of if the
(32:21):
person is sorry or not.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Uh, that was some heavy stuff there.
Yeah.
I need to drink.
No, I'm just kidding.
Um, it's, first of all, um, I'm, I don't know you, but if I ever get the chance to meet
you, I'm going to give you a big old hug.
(32:43):
Proud of you.
Oh man.
I'll take it.
Um, I am a hugger by the way.
Uh, so proud of you for that.
The, the fact that you were able to find that forgiveness within yourself, I think is paramount
and anyone who has gone through anything, who has an adversary or someone out there
who has hurt you, that self gift that Ray's talking about is so important and I'm proud
(33:09):
of you for that.
I'm a little sad that you, you did it only because I would like to go and beat someone's
ass, right?
So I would like to go and, and, uh, help help bring some right there with you.
Bring some for four minutes and then, and then later, I don't know.
I think for me it would last longer than four minutes, but I mean, I mean, I'm not a small
(33:34):
guy so I can help out, but I, but I get it.
Right.
And it's, it's so the, the, the amount of strength that it takes in order to provide
true forgiveness, to be able to not only, you know, give thoughts, but blessings and
actually pray for your stepmom.
Uh, that's, that's quite amazing.
(33:56):
That's, that's an amazing circle of growth or not circle, but a cycle of growth that
you've had.
Um, I'll give you one more piece to that.
Okay.
Here's, here's one more piece.
This is kind of next level, right?
Um, I'm grateful for what I've been through and the reason I'm grateful for what I've
(34:16):
been through is it put me indoors.
I otherwise couldn't get in.
Okay.
And I fully believe that if you've been through some stuff, you've been through some challenges,
God has a big calling on you.
So let me give you an example.
So last, uh, I guess it's been a little bit now, maybe year before, but, uh, I was at
(34:38):
this, um, um, this, this, uh, troubled youth lunch, let's just call it that, right?
Where I'm at this troubled youth lunch and I was just visiting, just kind of, you know,
check it out.
And I said, Hey, can I talk to him?
And you know, and they, no one knows me, right?
I just asked the lady and, and someone's like, who is he?
(34:59):
And someone said he's a speaker or something.
And uh, and she, the lady says, yeah, but if you're going to talk to him, don't talk
to that table.
I'm like, that's where I'm going.
Right.
So I go over to this table and you know, these teenagers, right.
They're in and out of jail.
Some of their parents just abandoned them.
Right.
And so I'm walking up and they're like, who's this white boy?
(35:22):
Right.
That's what they're thinking.
I know.
And so I walk up and I share two stories and all of a sudden they're like, okay.
And now they're listening.
And so when I speak to kids in foster care, when I speak to troubled teenagers, when I
speak to kids who have been through abuse, I find, um, the strength of relatability of
(35:45):
me sharing what I've been through.
Because you know, for example, if you've ever talked to someone who lost a child, you can't
console them unless you lost a child.
They won't listen to you because you don't know what it's like.
That's a fact.
And, and so like when, when, you know, I believe one of our calls is to help the person you
(36:05):
used to be.
So you've been through some stuff.
You had dad wounds, you had abuse, you had trauma, you've been broke.
Like I believe you are, that was there for you to be equipped to go and help other people
going through or have gone through that same thing.
So actually I look at it.
I never wish.
I wish I had a wonderful childhood.
(36:27):
Right.
I never wish that I'm grateful for it because it created in me, you know, like this particular
activator of who, who can I help, right?
Oh, I can resonate with them.
I can relate with them.
They'll, they'll connect with me.
And I, and I just wouldn't trade that for anything.
I find that fascinating and, and I really relate to it.
(36:49):
I, last night I spoke at the university of South Florida to several, I would say probably
a couple of hundred students.
And and the topic was supposed to be, you know, what are the business, what, what kind
of business to start?
It was about what types of business, what types of startups are going to do well.
But I don't do those kinds of speaking engagements.
(37:10):
I get invited to do that, but I pivoted to what type of interpersonal skills and personal
skills I believe these young people need to cultivate in order to have a shot at achieving
success, which has got to be defined much more broadly than they build a successful
business.
And I, I, I so align with what you just said about life and the challenges that are thrown
(37:38):
at us can be viewed as happening for us and not to us.
And that's not easy.
And I've spoken about this in prior podcasts and I speak about that when I speak publicly,
it's very understandable that people that are facing significant setbacks or challenges
in their lives feel aggrieved at the moment that they are in the midst of the worst of
(38:04):
it.
Right.
When you're in the maelstrom, it's really, really hard to say, oh, this is happening
for me.
This is great.
Yes.
Yes.
However, what separates those that are capable of achieving great things in life is they
don't get stuck there.
Yeah.
They emerge out of that and come, come to a place where they're able to leverage whatever
it was that smack them in the face and make the most out of it.
(38:27):
It's the proverbial making lemonade out of lemon.
And obviously your life story is about that.
And I respect that.
And I want to pivot and that's hard to do, but I want to get to talking about some of
your perspective, some of your enormous perspective and opportunities to share wisdom with our
(38:47):
audience on business.
And I want to start with podcasting.
So you have a very successful podcast.
It's a source of inspiration for PJ and I.
We're just getting started.
We're in our second season and we have a goal.
Our goal and people that listen to the podcast probably have long ago recognized that what
we're here to do is not to glorify people.
(39:09):
We're not trying to knock people down, but our objective is to demystify entrepreneurship,
help people realize that successful people are not some super species that somehow are
above the challenges of everyday life.
They're mortals.
I'm a mortal.
And so is every successful person that walks the earth.
(39:31):
It's that we share certain characteristics and traits.
And in my experience, the reason this podcast I think resonates is that we are talking a
lot about failure and that sounds kind of counterintuitive because we are podcasting
about helping people be successful.
And yet we spent so much time talking about failure.
And a big reason why that is, is because we've discovered that a common denominator for people
(39:53):
that end up being successful is that they are resilient, they persevere and they learn.
And failure is not an end game.
It's a midway point.
So on your podcast, Home Business Profits, and as PJ mentioned, over 10 million downloads,
for those of you that don't know what that means, that is a staggering number.
That's a lot.
(40:14):
What is your goal?
What is your goal?
What are the core themes you're trying to communicate to your audience?
Okay, so I am probably the worst podcaster to model.
I'm just going to say that.
Okay.
Now you tell me.
I think our podcast probably has the most downloads and the worst execution that exists
(40:40):
in the podcast world.
Now we've been, first of all, we've been going a long time.
I started that, I think it was toward the end.
I think it was toward the beginning of 2015, I believe.
So it's been going a while and I don't do these cool interviews.
I don't do them.
I do a lot of live videos and my team takes them, puts the audio on the podcast.
(41:06):
Terrible model.
It's not great.
This is a better model.
What you're doing is better.
I'm telling you.
I'm telling you.
What I do include in the content that does go on there is good.
I do believe in my content, but as far as the model and the example, it's not great.
(41:27):
It's not great.
A year ago in November, I came to Christ and this is important for your question.
And so I didn't grow up in the church, didn't know one verse, none of that.
And so since that transformation, which is it fulfilled in me something I'd been seeking
(41:48):
for years, but I didn't know what it was.
I've changed my business.
For 10 years, we've ran an annual event.
Last year, we changed the name of it to Faith Over Fear.
And so my tagline now is I teach faith-based mindset leadership principles that work.
So I mix scripture into all of the different trainings, proverbs and just different business
(42:14):
print or biblical principles into sales, marketing, mindset leadership.
And the way that God wired me is he made me either, I am either absolutely obsessed about
something or completely repulsed by something.
Like I do not play golf, like to me to calculate that many hours, I don't want to do it.
(42:40):
Right.
And that's just me.
But I am obsessed with learning.
I'm obsessed with, I'm in the Bible every day, et cetera.
And so the content that goes on there mixes in vulnerability, faith and business principles.
That's really the three.
And those are three that I believe all people need, all entrepreneurs, I believe need all
(43:04):
three of those.
And that's what I put up there.
So people like the content, but the format, the execution, the plan, it's not that great.
And so I'm a great example of you don't have to be like everyone else or you don't have
to have it perfect for you to do good.
First of all, thank you.
(43:24):
It's very humbling for Tal and I to hear that you think we have a better set up or process
than you do.
I will tell you that the checks in the mail.
I'm also going to ask you not to cash it please, because it's going to bounce.
Hold on to it.
I'll put it in the background.
Yeah, no, I mean, it's very cool the intentionality that you have in regards to all this.
(43:49):
But to have that focus as kind of like a personal, I don't want to use the word, I guess maybe
crusade or like using that new influx of Christ in your life to try to help out others, help
the masses and in a way that is, I think novel and very, very cool.
(44:09):
You've also throughout your history, you have shared the stage, so to speak, with some of
the most prominent thought leaders in the world.
I would have some major identity crisis being up there.
(44:30):
You've also shown the capacity to kind of take a step back, look at things in a more
holistic way, which I have seen a lot of very successful entrepreneurs, Tal and I both have
seen a lot of very successful entrepreneurs be able to do.
When you're mixing in this crowd of Tony Robbins and Hollis and all these people that are world
renowned, what have you learned from them?
(44:53):
What do you take from that?
How has that shaped your approach to business and mentorship in life?
I mean, Tony, for example, it's interesting.
I had this like weird like hater envy of him back in this is probably 2013.
(45:20):
I had never actually been to one of his events and I'm like, oh, everyone's crazy about Tony,
whatever.
And then I saw him, he spoke at an event that I was speaking at and I just watched him for
like two hours and I'm like, okay, I got it.
I get it now.
He's really good.
(45:40):
He's really, really good.
And he fired me up.
And so for me, part of this is like timeline because in the past, those speakers definitely
would pump me up and get me excited, get me wanting to, you know what, I need to up level
my goals.
I need to go harder.
I need to go heavier.
(46:02):
Now I look at my, before I came to Christ, I look at that time as a very, everything's
dependent on me and I'm leaning everything on my shoulder, but it's going to be, it's
up to me.
And now life is just so different.
I spend about an hour in prayer, but spread out throughout the day and I just handle things
(46:28):
so much differently and I have so many different experiences of just miracles happening that
I didn't have anything to do with, but showed up on my doorstep.
And so it's just a different, you know, what it's done is it helped, it's all of that experience
has helped me identify what's missing in the marketplace.
(46:53):
And what's missing in the marketplace is I believe, and this is why I'm doing it, what
I'm doing, to bring faith into it, to still be excellent.
If you read the Bible, Daniel was 10 times better than the other guys that were working
alongside him with the King.
(47:13):
Joseph was a Hebrew slave, but he was so good.
His pagan master said, man, favor's really with this guy.
And so we are called the excellence and the Bible tell you Ecclesiastes 9.16, the poor
man's wisdom is despised.
So we're not supposed to be poor, right?
We're not supposed to be, you know, slackers, right?
We're not supposed to be lazy.
We're supposed to be excellent.
(47:35):
But it's not just about our efforts.
And so all of those other world renowned, better known speakers have a great message
of lean more on your own efforts, work harder, keep going.
And I believe that's a harder model than it has to be.
(47:56):
I think, Ray, what you're sharing is and I'm reflecting on what I shared last night, you
know, with the students and I didn't talk about faith.
I think that, you know, generally speaking, I've shied away from that.
I have a lot of I have a lot of feelings about that.
And I'm personally a believer.
But I tend to focus more on recommending that people find self awareness and the definition
(48:23):
of how and how they go about doing kindness as as in my view, being too significant cornerstones
and being able to live a meaningful life and achieve and then the path people choose to
get there.
I leave to them.
But I absolutely understand where you're coming from on that.
And I I think that anyone in the audience who is a seeker, whether you find it in faith
(48:48):
or you find it in meditation or you find it in reading poetry, I think it's a beautiful
thing that you go inwards, because generally speaking, that is the path.
The path out actually comes from within.
And that may not necessarily be the most obvious thing.
But that's what I've learned in my life is that I had to go in, in order to get through.
(49:10):
I want to talk about faith over fear.
You talked about that.
It's it's it's it's first tell our audience who may be interested in that, how they could
find out more.
And, you know, and I know we only have for a couple more minutes.
I'd also like to hear you talk about consistency.
That's another thing you mentioned before.
(49:30):
In fact, you gave us the quote in the pre interview, the reason people aren't consistent
is always based on an observation they made as a kid.
And I think it's a really interesting statement.
So between that and what you're what you're helping people learn and faith over fear,
what can people you know, what can people take away from that?
Since, you know, we can't change the past, what can we take away for that in terms of
(49:53):
moving our lives in the direction we want our lives to move?
Yeah.
So we all made observations as kids, all of us.
And it created programs within us, and there's a lot of different words people use for this
strongholds would be a biblical term, but strongholds or programs, paradigms they created
(50:18):
in us that are really the pilots of our life.
OK.
And so the best thing to to share what I mean here is to give an example.
So I was I was coaching this lady.
So I used to go on what's it called?
I haven't been on it in a while.
The audio thing where it's just audio.
(50:40):
Now, I forget, I forget what it's called.
But anyway, so you go on there and people get in this room and you can let people speak.
And I used to just do coaching, just random coaching.
Right.
I don't know who they are.
Come on on here.
And so this lady gets on and she shares with me that, you know, over the last whatever
(51:00):
10 years, she's you know, she would start a career, crush it.
And and then she would always find, you know what, there's something wrong here.
There's something wrong with these guys.
And she would leave.
She'd go to another thing, crush it, do really well, break records.
And then she would leave and it was just over and over and over.
Now a clubhouse was a clubhouse.
(51:22):
Yes.
Yes.
Thank you.
Thank you.
You said I was like, what is that?
What is that?
Right.
And so a pattern, right, wherever you go, there you are.
So a pattern is a lesson is repeated until it's learned.
And so and I know that your patterns are from absolutely no question.
(51:42):
They're from observations as a kid from coaching, you know, not hundreds of thousands, but thousands
of people.
And so I asked her, so her history is go somewhere, do really good, find something wrong, leave,
go somewhere and do really good, find something wrong, leave.
And I said, OK, tell me about your like, what was your relationship with your parents?
And she said, oh, they were perfect.
They're still together today.
(52:03):
They're amazing.
And so I know I also know that our memory will literally block things to protect us.
OK.
And so and I also got it that she was a little rebellious personality.
So I said, I just had to speed things up.
And so I said, it's OK if you don't remember.
Which to a rebellious personality, it actually, you know, kind of challenges them.
(52:27):
And she goes.
And we're on audio.
So I don't know, was she just in an accident?
Like she just, you know, like what's going on, right?
And so she comes back and she says, I just remembered as a little girl catching my mom
cheating on my dad.
And I'm like, got it.
That's your problem.
And she's like, what?
(52:48):
Well, as a little girl, everything was going well.
Everything was perfect.
And all of a sudden you were surprised.
And as a little girl, you vowed that'll never happen again.
I'm going to be in control next time.
So that's what you do.
As soon as things start getting well in a relationship or business or career, you get
(53:09):
out of there because you ain't going to be surprised again like that little girl was.
And so that transformed her.
And so now she is no longer like that.
And so people who struggle with consistency, it is always from an observation they made
as a kid that drew the wrong conclusion to success.
So if their parent, a really common one, if their parents were really successful and ignored
(53:34):
them, they will sabotage success because they never want their kids to feel ignored like
they were.
If their parents made a bunch of money and lost it, they will sabotage making a lot of
money because they don't want to go through the pain of losing it.
And clearly that's the only option.
Okay.
And for me even, mine was a little different.
(53:57):
My resistance to God, to even wanting to know, that's why I stayed out of the church my whole
life, my resistance to God was because of my observation of my father.
How we think about our biological father is how we think about our heavenly father.
So I thought God was mean, uncaring, I'd never be good enough, he'd never be proud of me.
So that's what I projected onto God and that's what kept him away from me.
(54:20):
When I realized that that's not the case, when she realized that it doesn't have to
be the case, when others realize that, hey, you can make money and maybe not make the
same mistakes, then they have that breakthrough and they can actually create transformation.
The Faith Over Fear event, that's our annual event.
And last year we had about 1200 people in Orlando.
(54:41):
This year we believe we'll have 2500 to 3000 in Orlando, October 31st and November 3rd.
And you can learn more at faithoverfearlive.com.
Faith Over Fear Live dot com.
Ray, I'm gonna let, I'm gonna let Tal close, but I just wanted to let you know, first of
all, fantastic having you on.
(55:01):
You're amazing.
I'm so happy to have met you.
This is, this has been enthralling for me.
And we definitely have to have you back.
There's so many things we didn't even get to in regards to business and, and your fantastic
outlook and all the programs that you're doing.
And I really want to delve into how you're going to be on Dancing with the Stars in the
near future.
So let's, you know, we'll, we'll definitely have you back on whenever your time allows.
(55:25):
We would love to have a follow up.
Be more than happy to.
All right.
Well, Tal, finish us off, buddy.
Sounds good.
I Ray, I'm grateful for your time today and I absolutely echo, we need to have you back.
It's funny, I was looking through our notes and we went through like a third of our questions.
(55:46):
So we have a lot to still talk to you about.
And we'd love to have you back.
We hope we can.
Our guest today was Ray Higdon.
He's the bestselling author of Time, Money and Freedom.
He's one of the world's most popular business podcasters.
He is an incredibly high energy keynote speaker.
If you've not seen him, go to the YouTube and watch a couple of his videos.
(56:06):
They're amazing.
And it's been a privilege.
I'm very grateful that we had you on.
And I'm sure that regardless of the fact that maybe from a business content standpoint,
we didn't cover as much as we may have wanted to.
I believe we've made an impact today and I look forward to our audience telling us about
(56:26):
that.
So please reach out to us at www.bravingbusiness.com.
There's a comment section.
Many of you sent us comments after episodes and we'd love to hear your thoughts on this
episode.
Tell us what you like.
Tell us what you'd like to see us do more of.
This was our first foray into faith-based business.
And it's a step I'm glad we took and I'm particularly glad we had the privilege of taking it with
(56:50):
someone like Ray.
So Ray, thank you so much.
My pleasure.
Thanks for having me.
And that's a wrap, folks.
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Sign up for free to our weekly blog, support our sponsors and soon buy our merchandise
(57:14):
at www.bravingbusiness.com.
Thanks for being a part of our production and we'll see you next time on the Braving
Business Podcast.
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