August 3, 2023 • 43 mins
Join me in this gripping episode as I delve into a haunting case from my early days as a rookie—a double homicide that tested my resilience. At the crime scene, I appeared unfazed, but little did I know that the experience would leave a lingering impact on my psyche.
Months later, an unexpected revelation came to light—my subconscious mind had been on high alert, anticipating potential threats. Realizing my anxiety allowed me to face it head-on and conquer its hold on me. Tune in to learn how I triumphed over my anxieties and emerged stronger than ever before.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Team one stand by Copy.
Team one stand by Breach,breach, breach.
Hey guys, welcome back.
So on the last episode wetalked about how I felt after
(00:25):
working one of my cases or workin a case, and this week I
wanted to do kind of the samething.
You know, I'm hoping to leadsomewhere else with it, but for
now I want to go with this one.
So many years ago now, back whenI was, I'd been here or been on
(00:48):
my job for probably three yearsWe'll go with three years, so
still very much rookie and we'reon night shift, late in the
evening I don't remember exactlywhat time it was.
We're at the office and one ofour dispatcher sticks her heads
(01:13):
out the door and she startsyelling for my sergeant.
He goes running down the halland not long after he's running
back saying come on, we got togo.
They dispatch the call and theonly information we had at the
time was that there was a womanwho was crying out for help as
(01:35):
best she could.
It was difficult to understandand she was saying that her
husband was shot or that she hadbeen shot.
That's what it was Said thatshe had been shot.
There's only information we had.
So we didn't, you know, didn'tknow what we were going to.
All we knew is there was awoman that was saying she'd been
shot and dispatch was having ahard time understanding what she
(01:58):
was saying.
So we're racing to try to getthere.
I think, when I look back atthe time and looked at the, the
call logs on it, I believe itonly took less than 10 minutes
for us to get there.
You know, in the, the job we do,you know, response times make a
(02:19):
difference in public safety andwe were trying.
We were trying to get there asfast as we could and on this
particular road it actuallycrossed over another main road.
So one road on the right, oneroad on the left, and both roads
on the right and left have thesame name.
(02:40):
So we needed to know, you know,which side of the road, based
off of the numeric, we needed togo.
Unfortunately, we didn't havethe technology we do now where
you know we can pretty muchpinpoint a, an address.
So while we're getting there, aswe get close to the road,
(03:02):
sergeant comes over the radioand he says all right, you guys
go to the right, we're going tothe left.
Whoever comes up to the house,call it out.
Okay, so that's what we did.
So me and the guy behind me wegot to the road on the right, we
made the right, they went tothe left.
We're starting to go down theroad.
(03:23):
We're noticing that the numbersare going down, and where we
started at was not the house wewere supposed to be at.
So get on the radio.
Hey, this is definitely not it.
It's going to be on your guysside.
So we turn around and beeline itback across the road, get over
to the other side of the roadand we catch up to the other
units, using the spotlights,trying to locate the address,
(03:48):
trying to find the numbers onthe mailbox.
And as we get there, you knowwe, we know we've got somebody
that's been shot.
So we want to try to keep, youknow, the cover of darkness to
to our benefit.
So as we get there, we cut offthe lights, pull into the
driveway and, guys, when I tellyou it was dark once we got out
(04:08):
of the cars, especiallyconsidering we had the
headlights on and then theinterior light cuts on.
When you get out of the car,you know your night vision
really gets hampered with whitelight, with a lot of different
color lights, but especiallywith white light, your night
vision really gets hampered.
So when we get out I mean you,you couldn't.
(04:29):
Once you shut the doors, we're.
We're so deep in the woods youcouldn't see your hand if you'd
put it in front of your facehardly.
So we're getting out, you know,we're quietly shutting the car
doors and we're trying to makeour way up to the house, and all
of us kind of heard where theother one was.
So we just kind of stacked upon one another and put our hands
on our backs, on each other'sbacks.
(04:50):
As we start approaching, westart getting toward the house.
And as we're approaching, Iwant to say that there was,
there was one light on and itwas.
It was pretty dim when westarted up toward the house.
Obviously, once we got into the, the area of the house, that
was brighter.
But as we get to the house, youknow I'm towards the, the end
(05:15):
of the stack, the, so multiplepeople in a line.
We call that a stack.
So we're toward the.
I'm toward the end of the stack.
It's me and, I believe, oneother guy.
And as we get up there, youknow most of the most of the
shifts peels off, they go inthrough the garage and they're
starting up to go inside thehouse.
Me and the guy with with meContinue on.
(05:36):
We're going to go ahead andstart checking the exterior of
the the residents.
We want to see if there's anythreats.
We want to see if there's anyevidence.
You know we're we're justtrying to do the best we can
with the limited informationthat we got.
And as we start going aroundthe house, we get to the back
side of the house.
I look down and notice thatthere's a phone wire that's been
(05:57):
cut.
I don't know if that's relevantor not.
I never heard.
Um, you know, after the casewas over with, I never heard
whether that was any relevanceor not, but I did.
I did see it and noted it.
We continue on.
There's several outbuildings onthe property and me and this guy
go and we start checking theseoutbuildings.
(06:17):
Now, mind you, when we'relooking for these outbuildings,
the primary thing we're lookingfor is is an individual.
We're looking for anybody thatmay be a threat, anybody that
may be injured.
You know that's our primaryResponsibility.
When we first get on a scenelike that, we're trying to make
sure Anyone that needs help getsit and anyone that is a threat,
that we're able to detain themor stop them from being a threat
(06:40):
.
So we're checking theseoutbuildings.
The other team, or the otherpart of the shift, is is inside
the house and we hear chattercome over the radio.
That was my sergeant callingback to our dispatch and letting
them know that we needed anambulance and we had one female.
So once we finish checking theoutbuildings the guy that was
(07:03):
with me we turn and we beelineit back to the house.
And you know, obviously I can'tspeak or won't speak on what
the the rest of the shifts saw,but you know, as we started
coming up to that door, that'swhen you notice the broken glass
.
You notice the broken glass,the broken window, excuse me and
(07:26):
as you step inside You're justhitting the face with this
overwhelming smell of gasoline.
The floor is real slippery.
You know, to us it was very,very Immediately evident that
someone had poured gas all over,or gasoline all over the
interior of this home, or atleast where we were.
(07:46):
But it was, it was overwhelming, I mean it.
It slapped you in the face justas soon as you come through the
door.
We're getting through there andyou know, I see my sergeant.
He's, you know, helping the,the female that's in the home.
He's helping her hold a rag onto her face.
She had received a gunshot toher face and was bleeding pretty
(08:08):
heavy, so he was helping keeppressure on that.
They'd already cleared the homeand as I walked through the
home um, you know, to see ifthere was anything that I could
pick up with my eyes withoutmanipulating anything, I stuck
my head in one of the rooms andthere was a deceased male laying
on the bed and, okay, so thisis a homicide.
(08:32):
This, this is.
This is not just Um, anaggravated assault is what we
call it here, or an attemptedmurder, this is, this is a
homicide.
Now, and I back away and moveddown the hall, look into another
room and there's another malewho is deceased.
Both males had been shot andwere deceased there.
(08:57):
There was no ability to helpthem whatsoever.
Both, if I recall correctly,both, have been shot in the head
.
So, seeing this, you know, theambulance gets there, the fire
department gets there, we getthe victim out of the home, the
living victim out of the home,and we back out of the house.
(09:18):
Then comes the, the Concern,after we've already notified our
investigators.
We've notified the crime sceneunit.
Um, you know, our command staffhas all been Made aware of
what's going on.
You know, typically we backaway and we just continue to
(09:41):
hold the scene.
But as I, as I sat there, as wesat there, uh, I mean, we gotten
talking about the, theoverwhelming smell of gasoline
and how much gas had been spreadthroughout that home.
And of course, that's when youknow it kind of runs through
your head, is.
You know, was someone trying toset the house on fire?
Well, they're trying to set thehouse on fire Before we got
(10:03):
there.
Were they trying to set thehouse on fire to get rid of any
evidence?
Were they trying to bait us?
You know, were they waiting forus to get into the house and
then set the house on fire?
And, you know, maybe they justgot spooked and and ran off.
You know, all these thoughtsare going through my head as
well as the rest of the shift,and you know, then we got to
(10:26):
thinking well, there's still thepotential for a fire and inside
of that home Is the onlyevidence that we're possibly
going to have right now.
It's the only place we knowwhere there's going to likely be
evidence of what happened inthat home.
So we get hold of the firedepartment, we get the fire
department to Bring some fansout and they put some fans on
(10:49):
the doors to help draw out fumesinside the home.
That way, you know, we don'thave this build-up of gas fumes
inside the home and, you know,potentially have a bomb from
something going off or orwhatever.
Either way, we didn't want anymore evidence getting destroyed,
you know, because of somethingthat at least was preventable at
the moment, which was, you know, just drawing the gas vapors
(11:12):
out.
So they're doing those thingsEventually, our investigators
get there, the crime scene unitgets there, all of our command
staff shows up and you know, nowwe're in a holding pattern
Because at this point there'sthere's nothing for those of us
that are the first responders,there's nothing more for us to
(11:33):
do.
You know, we're literally thereto answer questions that any of
the investigators may have, soon and so forth.
So we're standing around andOne of the guys on the shift he
was new, you know he'd he'd beenin public safety for a little
while, in the sense of, you knowhe worked with the jail
(11:56):
division.
He worked as a jail officer fora little while and then went
through the academy and andbecame certified and now he was
working in the job with us.
So he was still in what we callfield training, for for those
that aren't familiar with it,it'd be similar to on the job
training or OJT.
(12:16):
So we have field training andhe's still in field training.
And this is, you know, mind you, somebody who's not long out of
the academy, somebody who'snever seen things like this
before Walking into a scenewhere you know it's one thing to
have one person who's you know,needing medical aid because
(12:36):
they've been shot, but we've allgone to a double homicide and
it was an attempted triplehomicide, you know, that's
that's a lot for somebody'sbrain to kind of take in.
So we're standing around and andhe looks at us and he goes.
I, you know, I kind of Kind offeel like we should be talking
to somebody and you know I hadthree years, like I said,
(12:57):
roughly on the job at the timeand I look at him.
I'm like, what do you mean?
And what do you mean?
We need to talk to somebody?
What the investigators alreadyhere who you want to talk to?
He goes, no, not like aninvestigator, like Like, maybe
we need to talk to a chaplain ora priest, or I said Okay,
because at the time it wasn'tdawning on me, because I was
(13:22):
fine, you know, I, I wasn'tfeeling anything Regarding what
we seen, what we saw, what weexperienced, what we smell, that
it was done over with, we weresafe.
That's, that's all thatmattered to me.
But obviously it was botheringhim and I hadn't considered that
.
So I finally was able to pickup what he was putting down and
(13:45):
I walked over because ourchaplains we have a agency
chaplains Our chaplains had acouple of our chaplains that
showed up and I walked over tothe one that I was, you know,
very familiar with and I said,hey, do you?
Uh, you think maybe, maybe cometalk to us for a second.
I said I think at least one ofthe guys is kind of having a
(14:05):
little trouble, you know, maybecome over and and talk.
He's like sure, no problem.
So he walks over and, you know,I kind of gathered the shift up
and we walk off to the side,away from everybody, and, uh, he
was really good, still is, andhe's, he's really good at
breaking the ice and, and youknow, kind of getting the
(14:25):
conversation started regardlessif it's a tough conversation or
not.
Um, you know he's really goodat at doing that and so he just
he went right to work.
So he gets in and you know hestarts up conversation and he's
like guys, you know, I just kindof want to give you all a
chance to kind of talk about,you know how you may be feeling,
what you saw, whatever.
And uh, you know he looks at meand of course I couldn't really
(14:49):
help out much because at thetime I I wasn't feeling anything
.
I'm like no, I'm, I'm good,it's.
It's another scene, you know,and, and I know to those of you
that don't work in public safety, safety that comes off as
callous, you know it comes off,is not caring and it's.
It's by far not that it's not.
We do care.
(15:10):
You know, if we didn't care wewouldn't do the job that we do.
We wouldn't be in thisprofession if we didn't care.
But you get accustomed toseeing things so much that it
doesn't phase you like it doeseveryone else.
You learn to cope with it, youlearn to deal with it, you
compartmentalize it and you pushforward, or else you're not
(15:33):
going to make it in the job.
So to me it was nothing.
You know it was.
It was another scene.
Yes, it was a, it was a doublehomicide and people have lost
their lives.
There was another one who wasfighting for her life and as bad
as that was, as bad as it wasfor the person still fighting
(15:55):
for her life, as bad as it wasfor the individuals who lost
their lives and that entirefamily, you know it, it wasn't
phasing me and it's just because, you know, three years in, I've
been on multiple scenes wherethere were individuals who were
deceased, either it be a wife ora baby, or whether it be
because of a natural cause,because of whether it be because
(16:17):
of a self-inflicted injury.
I've been around death quite abit, so it just wasn't really
wasn't wasn't really affectingme.
And we move around and we cometo the FTO and you know, he's
like, you know it's just kind of, just kind of messed up and he
(16:39):
gave his feelings about what hewas feeling and what he was.
You know what he experiencedand we talked for a little while
longer and you know, eventuallywe we ended the conversation
and that wasn't the end becausethis scene pushed on, you know.
(17:01):
Mind you, we came on, you know,early evening.
Our shift started at five, whichmeant 12 hours later, five
o'clock in the morning, we weresupposed to be going home.
However, that wasn't the case.
Because of the scene andbecause of the investigation
that was ensuing, we couldn'tleave, we had to stay there, we
(17:22):
had to be available forquestions if needed.
And the morning pushes on.
You know, six o'clock, seveno'clock, eight o'clock, someone
made a breakfast run.
We were standing out by theroad near one of the fire trucks
, sitting there eating scrambledeggs and grits from one of the
(17:43):
local kitchens, and which wasfunny, because my sergeant is a
Yankee and he was not a fan ofgrits, so that was that was
enjoyable, to watch him try toeat grits that early in the
morning when he definitely didnot like them.
We get through breakfast and wepush on, and now we're getting
(18:09):
close to lunch.
You know, mind you, we'dalready been there 12 hours.
You know, now we're looking atanother six, seven hours later
and we're still there, we'restill on the scene, we're still
in the same clothes we were.
You know, we hadn't goneanywhere, we hadn't left.
Finally, you know, we talkedwith the investigators and
(18:30):
talked with the command staffand they said all right, guys,
head back to the office, goahead and knock out your reports
, get your reports done and thenyou guys are free to go home.
Okay, so that's what we did.
You hit it back and we all satdown and I remember we were
sitting there in the computerroom and it was quiet.
(18:52):
Literally the only thing youheard was a loud noise.
Literally the only thing youheard was the tapping of the
keys on the keyboard.
You know, normally we were allin there, or there were multiple
, multiple people in there allworking on reports.
There was some kind of laughing, there was some camaraderie,
there was, you know, some kindof jocularity going on at the
(19:13):
time and we were all just justbeat.
You know, there was, there wasnothing less than us.
So we sat there, we typed overour reports and once we were
done, you know, sat there withSarge and we went through them
to make sure everything wasgrammatically correct.
All the boxes were filled in,everything that needed
(19:36):
information, had information andjust made sure the reports were
complete.
That way when we left, you know, there was no need for phone
calls or anything like that forany obvious things we could have
taken care of.
Good to have taken care of.
We get it done.
Everybody leaves and I rememberI got home and I crashed like I
(19:58):
was out, walk in, take theuniform off, grab a quick shower
and done.
You know, there there wasnothing and to me that was the
end of it.
You know it's another scene.
It was a really, really longday, but it was just another
(20:19):
scene.
You know, wasn't wasn't thecontext of what the scene was
was new, but the fact that therewere deceased individuals,
individuals with gunshots, thatwas stuff I'd seen before.
So you know it was it and wemoved on and I don't remember
(20:45):
remember exactly how long it wasafter that case.
I do know that they had stillnot at least let it be known who
the killer was.
And I'm coming outside and itfor many of you that get that
heard me talking about this whenwe were talking with Pete.
(21:06):
You know, you heard me say it.
Then I'm a right-handed guy.
I do everything right-handed.
I can do things with my lefthand, but I'm a right-handed guy
.
You know eat, drink, you know,whatever.
It's all right-handed.
So one morning we're on dayshift by this point, and I'm
(21:29):
coming out of the house and Iwas doing the same thing I
always do come out of the house.
I've already locked the doorknob.
Come out of the house, pull mykeys out, lock the deadbolt and
you know getting ready to walkover to my car.
Well, as I shut the door, I'mtrying to get the key into the
deadbolt and it just wasn'thappening.
(21:49):
I couldn't get the key in thedeadbolt.
I'm fumbling with the keys,trying to figure out which key
it was.
You know thinking maybe I justhad the wrong key and I'm steady
fighting with with thisdeadbolt.
And I just remember thinkingwhy am I having such a hard time
?
I never had this, such thismuch of a hard time with this
(22:10):
door.
And I looked down and I noticedthat I'm using my left hand.
That was it something that?
It's not that my right hand washolding something, so I had to
use my left hand.
I was just using it.
I didn't know I was using itand wasn't, until I looked down
to continue to try toinvestigate why I was having
(22:31):
such a hard time.
That I noticed I was even usingmy left hand and I'm looking at
it and I remember thinking whyam I using that?
You know that's that's out ofcharacter for me.
It's out of character for meit's.
It doesn't follow the patternof events that I go through on
my normal routine going to work.
(22:52):
So why would I break thatpattern?
And as I sat there for a secondyou know, again, this took
seconds but as I sat there, Ilooked down and I noticed that
my right hand was resting on thegrip of my gun and that struck
me as odd because there was nothreat.
(23:15):
It's not exactly comfortable to, you know, sit there with your
arm raised up like this.
So why was my hand on my gun?
I couldn't fathom as to why Iwould, one, be breaking my
normal pattern of events and,two, be prepared to draw my gun
(23:42):
when there was no threat.
Thought it was weird and Igrabbed the grab, took my hand
off my gun, grab my key lock, mydeadbolt, got in my car and as
I was on the way to work, youknow, I thought about it.
It wouldn't leave me alone.
I couldn't understand why I washaving such a hard time with
this and I was going overeverything that I couldn't.
(24:08):
You know, did I hear something?
That I see something?
When I walked out the door, didmy eyes actually catch
something suspicious?
But because it wasn't enough toalert me and, you know, draw my
immediate attention wasn'tenough to make me feel like I
needed to stay on guard, youknow.
So I kept thinking about it andultimately, because I couldn't
(24:38):
find anything, ultimately whatit wound up coming back to is
because of what I saw on thatscene.
You know, yes, I had seendeceased persons before.
I had worked shootings before,in terms of self-inflicted.
You know, I'd worked accidentalshootings.
(25:00):
I have worked a multitude ofcases as a first responder, but
I'd never walked into a scenelike that, a scene where this
was obvious malice, that someonethis wasn't an accident someone
wasn't cleaning their gun andaccidentally shot their friends.
(25:22):
Somebody wasn't cleaning theirgun and accidentally shot
themselves.
You know, it wasn't a hunterthat was pulling his rifle out
of his, out of his vehicle andthe trigger gets pulled because
it was still loaded and thesafety wasn't on.
It was none of that.
This was two people that werehunted down in their own home
(25:44):
and shot while they were asleep.
This was one woman who, by thegrace of God, was able to move
quickly enough that she didn'ttake the full blast of the
gunshot, that the individualthat shot her didn't kill her.
The odor of gasoline throughoutthe entire home as the offender
(26:14):
was either trying to set it onfire or destroy evidence.
This is stuff that I had neverseen before, you know,
especially approaching up in thepitch-black dark of night in
the woods and walking right intoa situation like this.
(26:35):
Guys, the the only explanationfor what was happening with me
was that, and witnessing thatand seeing those things and
smelling those smells and goingthrough all of that that, while
consciously I was not botheredwith it subconsciously because I
didn't know who was responsiblefor ending these individuals
(26:58):
lives and nearly killing thiswoman my brain was telling me
that there was still a killer onthe loose, there was still
someone who had the ability tokill me.
Out there.
Now, some of you may belistening to this or watching
(27:18):
this and you think, well, duh,that's every day.
That hasn't changed.
Yeah, you're right, you're ahundred percent correct.
I do not disagree with you, andthat's no different than me
telling people who say, oh well,I couldn't do your job because
how dangerous it is.
You have such a high rate of ofdeath and this that any other
you realize you can.
You can, you know, die in yourcar on the way to your desk job.
(27:43):
You can die in your car on yourway to vacation, you can die
anywhere.
You know, I get, I get the factthat there's someone out there
with the ability that could killme every day.
I get that.
But at the time, because of whatI experienced and having had
not experienced it before, mybrain was trying to keep me safe
(28:08):
.
Because I was not addressing it, because I had not voiced to
anyone or even thought about itoh my own, because I didn't.
I didn't think about it at alluntil people would come and
asked me and ask me about things.
I didn't think about it.
I had one guy pull into my yardcutting our, our three-quarters
of an acre lot with a pushmower and this guy drives into
(28:32):
my yard very rude, by the wayjust to sit here and talk to me
about the case because it madelocal media.
Eventually it would makenational media.
But he pulls all the way intomy yard just to talk to me about
this case and give me histheories or his.
What am I?
What were?
Am I looking for conspiracytheories on what he thought
(28:59):
happened?
You know, I didn't care, I wascutting my grass.
You just pull up in my yardLike, first off?
Who drives up into somebody'syard, who just drives into the
grass and not, like I was, by mydriveway, which was paved, by
the way.
So I, like you know it was nearmy driveway and he just kind of
pulled off no it like drovethrough my yard to get to me
(29:21):
because he didn't want to stop,get out and walk over to me Just
to sit here and talk to meabout something, because he saw
my vehicle, my work vehicle,sitting in the driveway.
That's rude.
If any of you ever get the ideathat that's what you think you
want to do, don't Know ahead oftime.
It's rude.
You deserve to have somebodydrive through your yard if
you're going to do that tosomeone.
(29:43):
But moving on, so I hadn'tthought about it and my brain
which is the only thing thatmakes logical sense to me my
brain was like look, sinceyou're not gonna take any action
to keep us safe, I'm just gonnarun some things in the
background here.
Okay, bud, I'm just gonna takecare of a few things and you
(30:05):
just go about your happy, little, merry life and I'll just keep
us safe.
Okay, you just continue beinguseless.
That's what my brain had tohave been thinking.
Why else would I be standingoutside of my door at a quarter
after four in the morning withmy hand resting on my gun and
not just relaxed, tense, rigid,ready to pull, ready to find
(30:29):
target?
You know, everything that Iwitnessed and the fact that I
had not addressed it had causedme and what I would guess would
be some kind of anxiety.
Now, this wasn't something thatlasted.
Once I realized what was goingon, I was able to rationalize
(30:54):
what happened to me, what Iexperienced, what my friends
experienced, my coworkersexperienced, what my community
experienced.
Once I was able to think aboutthose things and rationalize why
, in that one moment, I wasstanding there ready to protect
myself.
Like that, I was better.
(31:14):
It never happened again Now.
I can't tell you how many timesit happened before that time,
because I didn't even know itwas happening then, but it
happened then.
And then, once I came to gripswith everything and I told
myself look, there's no reasonfor you to be concerned right
now.
You're safe and even if you arenot safe, you're gonna do the
(31:37):
best you can to take care ofyourself.
Once I was able to make thoserationalizations, it didn't
happen again, and there weremany a times where I
specifically made sure nope,right hand user, the key lock,
the deadbolt, and we go.
So literally all it took for mewas just recognizing to myself
(32:02):
what I had gone through and whatI experienced and then
rationalizing the realizationthat I wasn't the target that
night.
I may be the target someday,but I wasn't the target that
night, nor was I the nightsafter that.
The individual that perpetratedthat crime on those three
(32:23):
people wanted to go after thosethree people, not me.
And after that I was betterAfter that not that I was ill to
begin with, but I didn't havethat subconscious anxiety that
was affecting me anymore.
So it was just further proofthat one we can experience and
(32:51):
be exposed to traumas that canaffect us and our personal life
at work.
We've talked about it beforeand this is just another example
to show how that can happen.
Again, this was something thatI was doing subconsciously.
It's not an action I intendedto take but on top of showing
(33:15):
how we can be exposed to thesethings, just simply doing our
job, how many headlines havethere been over the last several
years about workplace violence?
The church, I believe, out inTexas where the person walked in
and started shooting up thecongregation.
(33:35):
They're just having church,they're in their place of
worship having church andsomebody walks in.
These things can happenanywhere.
Often enough, it's something assimple as having a conversation,
like the debrief that we hadhad the night of to help my
coworker, which I did find outthat he apparently still didn't
(34:01):
care to be down that road Forthe longest time he would not
drive down that road.
That was something I understood.
I could understand that becauseof what I went through with the
drowning case that we talkedabout last time.
So I can understand that.
But he went through some thingsafter that.
He still had some things he hadto come to grips with and have
(34:25):
a resolution.
For him to get past that, itwas just a matter of dealing
with it.
Like my case, it was just meaddressing it.
Was it something I had to gosee a professional about or talk
to someone about?
It was just had to come to thatresolution on my own once I
(34:47):
realized there was a problem.
It was that simple.
It's not always that simple.
There are plenty of times whereindividuals need more help and
getting those solutions, thoseresolutions, help getting to
that point.
They can't get past what theysaw.
They can't get past that smell.
(35:08):
That's the reason why so manypeople are diagnosed with
post-traumatic stress disorder.
They experienced a trauma thataffected them in such a way that
they couldn't deal with it, andbecause they didn't deal with
(35:29):
it, it needed to be addressed.
And because they haven'taddressed this situation, it's
causing them further and furthertraumatic incidents.
It's causing them furtherstress.
It's causing them to developpoor coping mechanisms, often
enough that we wind up doingthat.
We wind up trying to solve theproblem ourselves and develop
(35:50):
poor coping mechanisms.
Whether it's behavioral things,whether it's a substance, we
wind up trying to help ourselvesbut in turn, we wind up causing
more damage when we should havegone and actually talked with
someone, when we should haveactually gone and gotten help.
And that's something thatindividuals.
(36:11):
That's a decision thatindividuals have to make for
themselves, but it happens andit can happen in the blink of an
eye.
It can happen at any moment.
The only thing we can do is onemitigate the situation once it
comes and then address it oncewe've successfully navigated the
(36:34):
situation.
Address it, whether it'sindividually, whether it's with
a group of people that you trust, whether it's with a mental
health provider, whether it's amember of clergy, it doesn't
matter, but you address it.
Don't act like I did.
I was being Mr Macho Wasn'tbothering me and truly I felt
(36:55):
that it wasn't, but clearly itwas, because once I addressed it
I no longer had that issueanymore.
So if there's anything you cantake away from this particular
podcast, aside from, you knowthe fact that it doesn't matter
(37:15):
what your job is, you can beexposed to traumatic incidents.
Take away the fact that we needto put our egos aside.
We need to put what we think weknow and what we think we can
handle aside and be honest withourselves to be able to sit
(37:38):
there and take it a good longhard.
Look at what we've gone throughWhether it's one incident,
whether it's repeated incidents,you know.
Take a good long hard.
Look at it and start trying tocome to grips with what you
experienced and try to find aresolution for it.
Maybe it doesn't need aresolution, maybe it already has
(38:00):
a resolution from the time thatyou think about it, but at
least think about it.
At least give it the time andthe respect that the incident
deserves to make sure you'reokay to figure out whatever
lessons you needed to learn fromthat particular incident and
move on to the next and if it's,if you're taking that time to
(38:26):
reflect and to acknowledge whatyou went through and you make
that determination.
This is not something I can doon my own, or maybe I'll try to
do it and then you decide lateron.
This is not something I can doon my own.
Put the ego aside, guys.
Push that to the side and gofind somebody to talk to.
Could be somebody you trust, bea co-worker, could be a friend,
(38:49):
could be your spouse, could bea member of clergy.
Find somebody you trust.
And if you can't find anindividual or maybe you're just
concerned that if you express itto one of these individuals
that you know it's going toaffect how they see you, which
is something that happens oftenenough, it happens a tremendous
amount then go see someone.
(39:12):
Go see a mental healthprofessional, a counselor, a
psychiatrist, a psychologist, itdoesn't matter.
Go see someone in the mentalhealth field that can help you
navigate whatever situationyou're going through.
You know I wrote a paper aboutit on, or paper on PTSD when I
(39:35):
was still in school and I talkedin there about children
developing PTSD due to domesticviolence in the home, and there
were a lot of people that didn'tknow that that occurred.
They didn't know that childrencould develop PTSD because of
the constant exposure todomestic violence.
(39:55):
How many people think aboutyourself, think about your
friends?
How many people do you know aresensitive when it comes to
domestic violence?
Sensitive not necessarily inthe terms of they get upset, but
you know, maybe when there'sloud yelling you see them kind
of shut down.
Maybe when there's loud yellingand screaming like that, you
(40:21):
know they too get amped up, eventhough they're not involved in
it.
You know, have you ever seenany of these things?
You know it can happen.
These traumatic incidents canaffect you, regardless of when
or where they happen.
Doesn't have to be a work thing, doesn't have to be a home
thing, doesn't have to be on theroad thing, it doesn't matter.
(40:41):
Yummy, people were diagnosedwith PTSD just from watching
9-11 happen on TV.
I was surprised by that.
I never in a million yearswould have thought that someone
could develop post-traumaticstress disorder because they
watched something on TV.
You know, having learned aboutit now, it makes a lot of sense.
(41:04):
You know to think about,especially if you're a person
that doesn't like horror movies.
You know, think about thatfirst horror movie you watched
and how it made you feel.
Did that possibly have aneffect on you as you grew older,
as you moved into adulthood?
Now you know not necessarilythat that's post-traumatic
(41:24):
stress, but it's just an exampleof how something that you saw
when you were a kid can stillaffect you as an adult.
So these things can happen atany point and in any place, and
the biggest thing we can do isacknowledge it, give it the
respect and time it deserves toat least look inside, put our
(41:47):
ego away and make thedetermination of how it makes us
feel and then address it,regardless of how you need to
address it.
I mean, let me rephrase thatAddress it in a healthy way.
Don't turn to alcohol, don'tturn to illicit drugs, don't
turn to pharmacology unlessyou've been prescribed a
(42:11):
medication for something similar, you know.
Address it in a healthy way andget a resolution for it so that
you can continue to do whateverit is you're wanting to do in
your life, whether it's continueto do your job, whether it's
continue to be with your family.
Whatever the situation is, it'sgoing to help you be a better
(42:31):
and happier you, and that'sgoing to be better for everyone
around you as well.
Okay, so there you go, guys.
Hope that one wasn't too longfor you.
I'm sorry if you've heard thatstory before.
I tend to do that a lot,apparently from one of my
friends.
Tell me, but I felt like thatone was kind of one we really
needed to get out there, wereally needed to talk about.
(42:54):
Even though it wasn't that, youknow, I guess the incident
itself was a big incident, butthe effect that it had on me and
things like that, it's notgreat, but even something that
minor, something that small, youknow it affected my life and I
(43:14):
didn't even know it.
You know, think about it, guys.
Have you been through somethinglike that?
Has somebody, you know, beenthrough something like that?
You know, it's the whole reasonwhy we did this one.
So, like always, I appreciateyour time, appreciate you
listening to me and until thenext one, you guys, be safe,
catch you around.
Bye.
Team one stand by Copy.
Team one stand by Breach,breach, breach.
Hey guys, welcome back.
So on the last episode wetalked about how I felt after
(00:25):
working one of my cases or workin a case, and this week I
wanted to do kind of the samething.
You know, I'm hoping to leadsomewhere else with it, but for
now I want to go with this one.
So many years ago now, back whenI was, I'd been here or been on
(00:48):
my job for probably three yearsWe'll go with three years, so
still very much rookie and we'reon night shift, late in the
evening I don't remember exactlywhat time it was.
We're at the office and one ofour dispatcher sticks her heads
(01:13):
out the door and she startsyelling for my sergeant.
He goes running down the halland not long after he's running
back saying come on, we got togo.
They dispatch the call and theonly information we had at the
time was that there was a womanwho was crying out for help as
(01:35):
best she could.
It was difficult to understandand she was saying that her
husband was shot or that she hadbeen shot.
That's what it was Said thatshe had been shot.
There's only information we had.
So we didn't, you know, didn'tknow what we were going to.
All we knew is there was awoman that was saying she'd been
shot and dispatch was having ahard time understanding what she
(01:58):
was saying.
So we're racing to try to getthere.
I think, when I look back atthe time and looked at the, the
call logs on it, I believe itonly took less than 10 minutes
for us to get there.
You know, in the, the job we do,you know, response times make a
(02:19):
difference in public safety andwe were trying.
We were trying to get there asfast as we could and on this
particular road it actuallycrossed over another main road.
So one road on the right, oneroad on the left, and both roads
on the right and left have thesame name.
(02:40):
So we needed to know, you know,which side of the road, based
off of the numeric, we needed togo.
Unfortunately, we didn't havethe technology we do now where
you know we can pretty muchpinpoint a, an address.
So while we're getting there, aswe get close to the road,
(03:02):
sergeant comes over the radioand he says all right, you guys
go to the right, we're going tothe left.
Whoever comes up to the house,call it out.
Okay, so that's what we did.
So me and the guy behind me wegot to the road on the right, we
made the right, they went tothe left.
We're starting to go down theroad.
(03:23):
We're noticing that the numbersare going down, and where we
started at was not the house wewere supposed to be at.
So get on the radio.
Hey, this is definitely not it.
It's going to be on your guysside.
So we turn around and beeline itback across the road, get over
to the other side of the roadand we catch up to the other
units, using the spotlights,trying to locate the address,
(03:48):
trying to find the numbers onthe mailbox.
And as we get there, you knowwe, we know we've got somebody
that's been shot.
So we want to try to keep, youknow, the cover of darkness to
to our benefit.
So as we get there, we cut offthe lights, pull into the
driveway and, guys, when I tellyou it was dark once we got out
(04:08):
of the cars, especiallyconsidering we had the
headlights on and then theinterior light cuts on.
When you get out of the car,you know your night vision
really gets hampered with whitelight, with a lot of different
color lights, but especiallywith white light, your night
vision really gets hampered.
So when we get out I mean you,you couldn't.
(04:29):
Once you shut the doors, we're.
We're so deep in the woods youcouldn't see your hand if you'd
put it in front of your facehardly.
So we're getting out, you know,we're quietly shutting the car
doors and we're trying to makeour way up to the house, and all
of us kind of heard where theother one was.
So we just kind of stacked upon one another and put our hands
on our backs, on each other'sbacks.
(04:50):
As we start approaching, westart getting toward the house.
And as we're approaching, Iwant to say that there was,
there was one light on and itwas.
It was pretty dim when westarted up toward the house.
Obviously, once we got into the, the area of the house, that
was brighter.
But as we get to the house, youknow I'm towards the, the end
(05:15):
of the stack, the, so multiplepeople in a line.
We call that a stack.
So we're toward the.
I'm toward the end of the stack.
It's me and, I believe, oneother guy.
And as we get up there, youknow most of the most of the
shifts peels off, they go inthrough the garage and they're
starting up to go inside thehouse.
Me and the guy with with meContinue on.
(05:36):
We're going to go ahead andstart checking the exterior of
the the residents.
We want to see if there's anythreats.
We want to see if there's anyevidence.
You know we're we're justtrying to do the best we can
with the limited informationthat we got.
And as we start going aroundthe house, we get to the back
side of the house.
I look down and notice thatthere's a phone wire that's been
(05:57):
cut.
I don't know if that's relevantor not.
I never heard.
Um, you know, after the casewas over with, I never heard
whether that was any relevanceor not, but I did.
I did see it and noted it.
We continue on.
There's several outbuildings onthe property and me and this guy
go and we start checking theseoutbuildings.
(06:17):
Now, mind you, when we'relooking for these outbuildings,
the primary thing we're lookingfor is is an individual.
We're looking for anybody thatmay be a threat, anybody that
may be injured.
You know that's our primaryResponsibility.
When we first get on a scenelike that, we're trying to make
sure Anyone that needs help getsit and anyone that is a threat,
that we're able to detain themor stop them from being a threat
(06:40):
.
So we're checking theseoutbuildings.
The other team, or the otherpart of the shift, is is inside
the house and we hear chattercome over the radio.
That was my sergeant callingback to our dispatch and letting
them know that we needed anambulance and we had one female.
So once we finish checking theoutbuildings the guy that was
(07:03):
with me we turn and we beelineit back to the house.
And you know, obviously I can'tspeak or won't speak on what
the the rest of the shifts saw,but you know, as we started
coming up to that door, that'swhen you notice the broken glass
.
You notice the broken glass,the broken window, excuse me and
(07:26):
as you step inside You're justhitting the face with this
overwhelming smell of gasoline.
The floor is real slippery.
You know, to us it was very,very Immediately evident that
someone had poured gas all over,or gasoline all over the
interior of this home, or atleast where we were.
(07:46):
But it was, it was overwhelming, I mean it.
It slapped you in the face justas soon as you come through the
door.
We're getting through there andyou know, I see my sergeant.
He's, you know, helping the,the female that's in the home.
He's helping her hold a rag onto her face.
She had received a gunshot toher face and was bleeding pretty
(08:08):
heavy, so he was helping keeppressure on that.
They'd already cleared the homeand as I walked through the
home um, you know, to see ifthere was anything that I could
pick up with my eyes withoutmanipulating anything, I stuck
my head in one of the rooms andthere was a deceased male laying
on the bed and, okay, so thisis a homicide.
(08:32):
This, this is.
This is not just Um, anaggravated assault is what we
call it here, or an attemptedmurder, this is, this is a
homicide.
Now, and I back away and moveddown the hall, look into another
room and there's another malewho is deceased.
Both males had been shot andwere deceased there.
(08:57):
There was no ability to helpthem whatsoever.
Both, if I recall correctly,both, have been shot in the head
.
So, seeing this, you know, theambulance gets there, the fire
department gets there, we getthe victim out of the home, the
living victim out of the home,and we back out of the house.
(09:18):
Then comes the, the Concern,after we've already notified our
investigators.
We've notified the crime sceneunit.
Um, you know, our command staffhas all been Made aware of
what's going on.
You know, typically we backaway and we just continue to
(09:41):
hold the scene.
But as I, as I sat there, as wesat there, uh, I mean, we gotten
talking about the, theoverwhelming smell of gasoline
and how much gas had been spreadthroughout that home.
And of course, that's when youknow it kind of runs through
your head, is.
You know, was someone trying toset the house on fire?
Well, they're trying to set thehouse on fire Before we got
(10:03):
there.
Were they trying to set thehouse on fire to get rid of any
evidence?
Were they trying to bait us?
You know, were they waiting forus to get into the house and
then set the house on fire?
And, you know, maybe they justgot spooked and and ran off.
You know, all these thoughtsare going through my head as
well as the rest of the shift,and you know, then we got to
(10:26):
thinking well, there's still thepotential for a fire and inside
of that home Is the onlyevidence that we're possibly
going to have right now.
It's the only place we knowwhere there's going to likely be
evidence of what happened inthat home.
So we get hold of the firedepartment, we get the fire
department to Bring some fansout and they put some fans on
(10:49):
the doors to help draw out fumesinside the home.
That way, you know, we don'thave this build-up of gas fumes
inside the home and, you know,potentially have a bomb from
something going off or orwhatever.
Either way, we didn't want anymore evidence getting destroyed,
you know, because of somethingthat at least was preventable at
the moment, which was, you know, just drawing the gas vapors
(11:12):
out.
So they're doing those thingsEventually, our investigators
get there, the crime scene unitgets there, all of our command
staff shows up and you know, nowwe're in a holding pattern
Because at this point there'sthere's nothing for those of us
that are the first responders,there's nothing more for us to
(11:33):
do.
You know, we're literally thereto answer questions that any of
the investigators may have, soon and so forth.
So we're standing around andOne of the guys on the shift he
was new, you know he'd he'd beenin public safety for a little
while, in the sense of, you knowhe worked with the jail
(11:56):
division.
He worked as a jail officer fora little while and then went
through the academy and andbecame certified and now he was
working in the job with us.
So he was still in what we callfield training, for for those
that aren't familiar with it,it'd be similar to on the job
training or OJT.
(12:16):
So we have field training andhe's still in field training.
And this is, you know, mind you, somebody who's not long out of
the academy, somebody who'snever seen things like this
before Walking into a scenewhere you know it's one thing to
have one person who's you know,needing medical aid because
(12:36):
they've been shot, but we've allgone to a double homicide and
it was an attempted triplehomicide, you know, that's
that's a lot for somebody'sbrain to kind of take in.
So we're standing around and andhe looks at us and he goes.
I, you know, I kind of Kind offeel like we should be talking
to somebody and you know I hadthree years, like I said,
(12:57):
roughly on the job at the timeand I look at him.
I'm like, what do you mean?
And what do you mean?
We need to talk to somebody?
What the investigators alreadyhere who you want to talk to?
He goes, no, not like aninvestigator, like Like, maybe
we need to talk to a chaplain ora priest, or I said Okay,
because at the time it wasn'tdawning on me, because I was
(13:22):
fine, you know, I, I wasn'tfeeling anything Regarding what
we seen, what we saw, what weexperienced, what we smell, that
it was done over with, we weresafe.
That's, that's all thatmattered to me.
But obviously it was botheringhim and I hadn't considered that
.
So I finally was able to pickup what he was putting down and
(13:45):
I walked over because ourchaplains we have a agency
chaplains Our chaplains had acouple of our chaplains that
showed up and I walked over tothe one that I was, you know,
very familiar with and I said,hey, do you?
Uh, you think maybe, maybe cometalk to us for a second.
I said I think at least one ofthe guys is kind of having a
(14:05):
little trouble, you know, maybecome over and and talk.
He's like sure, no problem.
So he walks over and, you know,I kind of gathered the shift up
and we walk off to the side,away from everybody, and, uh, he
was really good, still is, andhe's, he's really good at
breaking the ice and, and youknow, kind of getting the
(14:25):
conversation started regardlessif it's a tough conversation or
not.
Um, you know he's really goodat at doing that and so he just
he went right to work.
So he gets in and you know hestarts up conversation and he's
like guys, you know, I just kindof want to give you all a
chance to kind of talk about,you know how you may be feeling,
what you saw, whatever.
And uh, you know he looks at meand of course I couldn't really
(14:49):
help out much because at thetime I I wasn't feeling anything
.
I'm like no, I'm, I'm good,it's.
It's another scene, you know,and, and I know to those of you
that don't work in public safety, safety that comes off as
callous, you know it comes off,is not caring and it's.
It's by far not that it's not.
We do care.
(15:10):
You know, if we didn't care wewouldn't do the job that we do.
We wouldn't be in thisprofession if we didn't care.
But you get accustomed toseeing things so much that it
doesn't phase you like it doeseveryone else.
You learn to cope with it, youlearn to deal with it, you
compartmentalize it and you pushforward, or else you're not
(15:33):
going to make it in the job.
So to me it was nothing.
You know it was.
It was another scene.
Yes, it was a, it was a doublehomicide and people have lost
their lives.
There was another one who wasfighting for her life and as bad
as that was, as bad as it wasfor the person still fighting
(15:55):
for her life, as bad as it wasfor the individuals who lost
their lives and that entirefamily, you know it, it wasn't
phasing me and it's just because, you know, three years in, I've
been on multiple scenes wherethere were individuals who were
deceased, either it be a wife ora baby, or whether it be
because of a natural cause,because of whether it be because
(16:17):
of a self-inflicted injury.
I've been around death quite abit, so it just wasn't really
wasn't wasn't really affectingme.
And we move around and we cometo the FTO and you know, he's
like, you know it's just kind of, just kind of messed up and he
(16:39):
gave his feelings about what hewas feeling and what he was.
You know what he experiencedand we talked for a little while
longer and you know, eventuallywe we ended the conversation
and that wasn't the end becausethis scene pushed on, you know.
(17:01):
Mind you, we came on, you know,early evening.
Our shift started at five, whichmeant 12 hours later, five
o'clock in the morning, we weresupposed to be going home.
However, that wasn't the case.
Because of the scene andbecause of the investigation
that was ensuing, we couldn'tleave, we had to stay there, we
(17:22):
had to be available forquestions if needed.
And the morning pushes on.
You know, six o'clock, seveno'clock, eight o'clock, someone
made a breakfast run.
We were standing out by theroad near one of the fire trucks
, sitting there eating scrambledeggs and grits from one of the
(17:43):
local kitchens, and which wasfunny, because my sergeant is a
Yankee and he was not a fan ofgrits, so that was that was
enjoyable, to watch him try toeat grits that early in the
morning when he definitely didnot like them.
We get through breakfast and wepush on, and now we're getting
(18:09):
close to lunch.
You know, mind you, we'dalready been there 12 hours.
You know, now we're looking atanother six, seven hours later
and we're still there, we'restill on the scene, we're still
in the same clothes we were.
You know, we hadn't goneanywhere, we hadn't left.
Finally, you know, we talkedwith the investigators and
(18:30):
talked with the command staffand they said all right, guys,
head back to the office, goahead and knock out your reports
, get your reports done and thenyou guys are free to go home.
Okay, so that's what we did.
You hit it back and we all satdown and I remember we were
sitting there in the computerroom and it was quiet.
(18:52):
Literally the only thing youheard was a loud noise.
Literally the only thing youheard was the tapping of the
keys on the keyboard.
You know, normally we were allin there, or there were multiple
, multiple people in there allworking on reports.
There was some kind of laughing, there was some camaraderie,
there was, you know, some kindof jocularity going on at the
(19:13):
time and we were all just justbeat.
You know, there was, there wasnothing less than us.
So we sat there, we typed overour reports and once we were
done, you know, sat there withSarge and we went through them
to make sure everything wasgrammatically correct.
All the boxes were filled in,everything that needed
(19:36):
information, had information andjust made sure the reports were
complete.
That way when we left, you know, there was no need for phone
calls or anything like that forany obvious things we could have
taken care of.
Good to have taken care of.
We get it done.
Everybody leaves and I rememberI got home and I crashed like I
(19:58):
was out, walk in, take theuniform off, grab a quick shower
and done.
You know, there there wasnothing and to me that was the
end of it.
You know it's another scene.
It was a really, really longday, but it was just another
(20:19):
scene.
You know, wasn't wasn't thecontext of what the scene was
was new, but the fact that therewere deceased individuals,
individuals with gunshots, thatwas stuff I'd seen before.
So you know it was it and wemoved on and I don't remember
(20:45):
remember exactly how long it wasafter that case.
I do know that they had stillnot at least let it be known who
the killer was.
And I'm coming outside and itfor many of you that get that
heard me talking about this whenwe were talking with Pete.
(21:06):
You know, you heard me say it.
Then I'm a right-handed guy.
I do everything right-handed.
I can do things with my lefthand, but I'm a right-handed guy
.
You know eat, drink, you know,whatever.
It's all right-handed.
So one morning we're on dayshift by this point, and I'm
(21:29):
coming out of the house and Iwas doing the same thing I
always do come out of the house.
I've already locked the doorknob.
Come out of the house, pull mykeys out, lock the deadbolt and
you know getting ready to walkover to my car.
Well, as I shut the door, I'mtrying to get the key into the
deadbolt and it just wasn'thappening.
(21:49):
I couldn't get the key in thedeadbolt.
I'm fumbling with the keys,trying to figure out which key
it was.
You know thinking maybe I justhad the wrong key and I'm steady
fighting with with thisdeadbolt.
And I just remember thinkingwhy am I having such a hard time
?
I never had this, such thismuch of a hard time with this
(22:10):
door.
And I looked down and I noticedthat I'm using my left hand.
That was it something that?
It's not that my right hand washolding something, so I had to
use my left hand.
I was just using it.
I didn't know I was using itand wasn't, until I looked down
to continue to try toinvestigate why I was having
(22:31):
such a hard time.
That I noticed I was even usingmy left hand and I'm looking at
it and I remember thinking whyam I using that?
You know that's that's out ofcharacter for me.
It's out of character for meit's.
It doesn't follow the patternof events that I go through on
my normal routine going to work.
(22:52):
So why would I break thatpattern?
And as I sat there for a secondyou know, again, this took
seconds but as I sat there, Ilooked down and I noticed that
my right hand was resting on thegrip of my gun and that struck
me as odd because there was nothreat.
(23:15):
It's not exactly comfortable to, you know, sit there with your
arm raised up like this.
So why was my hand on my gun?
I couldn't fathom as to why Iwould, one, be breaking my
normal pattern of events and,two, be prepared to draw my gun
(23:42):
when there was no threat.
Thought it was weird and Igrabbed the grab, took my hand
off my gun, grab my key lock, mydeadbolt, got in my car and as
I was on the way to work, youknow, I thought about it.
It wouldn't leave me alone.
I couldn't understand why I washaving such a hard time with
this and I was going overeverything that I couldn't.
(24:08):
You know, did I hear something?
That I see something?
When I walked out the door, didmy eyes actually catch
something suspicious?
But because it wasn't enough toalert me and, you know, draw my
immediate attention wasn'tenough to make me feel like I
needed to stay on guard, youknow.
So I kept thinking about it andultimately, because I couldn't
(24:38):
find anything, ultimately whatit wound up coming back to is
because of what I saw on thatscene.
You know, yes, I had seendeceased persons before.
I had worked shootings before,in terms of self-inflicted.
You know, I'd worked accidentalshootings.
(25:00):
I have worked a multitude ofcases as a first responder, but
I'd never walked into a scenelike that, a scene where this
was obvious malice, that someonethis wasn't an accident someone
wasn't cleaning their gun andaccidentally shot their friends.
(25:22):
Somebody wasn't cleaning theirgun and accidentally shot
themselves.
You know, it wasn't a hunterthat was pulling his rifle out
of his, out of his vehicle andthe trigger gets pulled because
it was still loaded and thesafety wasn't on.
It was none of that.
This was two people that werehunted down in their own home
(25:44):
and shot while they were asleep.
This was one woman who, by thegrace of God, was able to move
quickly enough that she didn'ttake the full blast of the
gunshot, that the individualthat shot her didn't kill her.
The odor of gasoline throughoutthe entire home as the offender
(26:14):
was either trying to set it onfire or destroy evidence.
This is stuff that I had neverseen before, you know,
especially approaching up in thepitch-black dark of night in
the woods and walking right intoa situation like this.
(26:35):
Guys, the the only explanationfor what was happening with me
was that, and witnessing thatand seeing those things and
smelling those smells and goingthrough all of that that, while
consciously I was not botheredwith it subconsciously because I
didn't know who was responsiblefor ending these individuals
(26:58):
lives and nearly killing thiswoman my brain was telling me
that there was still a killer onthe loose, there was still
someone who had the ability tokill me.
Out there.
Now, some of you may belistening to this or watching
(27:18):
this and you think, well, duh,that's every day.
That hasn't changed.
Yeah, you're right, you're ahundred percent correct.
I do not disagree with you, andthat's no different than me
telling people who say, oh well,I couldn't do your job because
how dangerous it is.
You have such a high rate of ofdeath and this that any other
you realize you can.
You can, you know, die in yourcar on the way to your desk job.
(27:43):
You can die in your car on yourway to vacation, you can die
anywhere.
You know, I get, I get the factthat there's someone out there
with the ability that could killme every day.
I get that.
But at the time, because of whatI experienced and having had
not experienced it before, mybrain was trying to keep me safe
(28:08):
.
Because I was not addressing it, because I had not voiced to
anyone or even thought about itoh my own, because I didn't.
I didn't think about it at alluntil people would come and
asked me and ask me about things.
I didn't think about it.
I had one guy pull into my yardcutting our, our three-quarters
of an acre lot with a pushmower and this guy drives into
(28:32):
my yard very rude, by the wayjust to sit here and talk to me
about the case because it madelocal media.
Eventually it would makenational media.
But he pulls all the way intomy yard just to talk to me about
this case and give me histheories or his.
What am I?
What were?
Am I looking for conspiracytheories on what he thought
(28:59):
happened?
You know, I didn't care, I wascutting my grass.
You just pull up in my yardLike, first off?
Who drives up into somebody'syard, who just drives into the
grass and not, like I was, by mydriveway, which was paved, by
the way.
So I, like you know it was nearmy driveway and he just kind of
pulled off no it like drovethrough my yard to get to me
(29:21):
because he didn't want to stop,get out and walk over to me Just
to sit here and talk to meabout something, because he saw
my vehicle, my work vehicle,sitting in the driveway.
That's rude.
If any of you ever get the ideathat that's what you think you
want to do, don't Know ahead oftime.
It's rude.
You deserve to have somebodydrive through your yard if
you're going to do that tosomeone.
(29:43):
But moving on, so I hadn'tthought about it and my brain
which is the only thing thatmakes logical sense to me my
brain was like look, sinceyou're not gonna take any action
to keep us safe, I'm just gonnarun some things in the
background here.
Okay, bud, I'm just gonna takecare of a few things and you
(30:05):
just go about your happy, little, merry life and I'll just keep
us safe.
Okay, you just continue beinguseless.
That's what my brain had tohave been thinking.
Why else would I be standingoutside of my door at a quarter
after four in the morning withmy hand resting on my gun and
not just relaxed, tense, rigid,ready to pull, ready to find
(30:29):
target?
You know, everything that Iwitnessed and the fact that I
had not addressed it had causedme and what I would guess would
be some kind of anxiety.
Now, this wasn't something thatlasted.
Once I realized what was goingon, I was able to rationalize
(30:54):
what happened to me, what Iexperienced, what my friends
experienced, my coworkersexperienced, what my community
experienced.
Once I was able to think aboutthose things and rationalize why
, in that one moment, I wasstanding there ready to protect
myself.
Like that, I was better.
(31:14):
It never happened again Now.
I can't tell you how many timesit happened before that time,
because I didn't even know itwas happening then, but it
happened then.
And then, once I came to gripswith everything and I told
myself look, there's no reasonfor you to be concerned right
now.
You're safe and even if you arenot safe, you're gonna do the
(31:37):
best you can to take care ofyourself.
Once I was able to make thoserationalizations, it didn't
happen again, and there weremany a times where I
specifically made sure nope,right hand user, the key lock,
the deadbolt, and we go.
So literally all it took for mewas just recognizing to myself
(32:02):
what I had gone through and whatI experienced and then
rationalizing the realizationthat I wasn't the target that
night.
I may be the target someday,but I wasn't the target that
night, nor was I the nightsafter that.
The individual that perpetratedthat crime on those three
(32:23):
people wanted to go after thosethree people, not me.
And after that I was betterAfter that not that I was ill to
begin with, but I didn't havethat subconscious anxiety that
was affecting me anymore.
So it was just further proofthat one we can experience and
(32:51):
be exposed to traumas that canaffect us and our personal life
at work.
We've talked about it beforeand this is just another example
to show how that can happen.
Again, this was something thatI was doing subconsciously.
It's not an action I intendedto take but on top of showing
(33:15):
how we can be exposed to thesethings, just simply doing our
job, how many headlines havethere been over the last several
years about workplace violence?
The church, I believe, out inTexas where the person walked in
and started shooting up thecongregation.
(33:35):
They're just having church,they're in their place of
worship having church andsomebody walks in.
These things can happenanywhere.
Often enough, it's something assimple as having a conversation,
like the debrief that we hadhad the night of to help my
coworker, which I did find outthat he apparently still didn't
(34:01):
care to be down that road Forthe longest time he would not
drive down that road.
That was something I understood.
I could understand that becauseof what I went through with the
drowning case that we talkedabout last time.
So I can understand that.
But he went through some thingsafter that.
He still had some things he hadto come to grips with and have
(34:25):
a resolution.
For him to get past that, itwas just a matter of dealing
with it.
Like my case, it was just meaddressing it.
Was it something I had to gosee a professional about or talk
to someone about?
It was just had to come to thatresolution on my own once I
(34:47):
realized there was a problem.
It was that simple.
It's not always that simple.
There are plenty of times whereindividuals need more help and
getting those solutions, thoseresolutions, help getting to
that point.
They can't get past what theysaw.
They can't get past that smell.
(35:08):
That's the reason why so manypeople are diagnosed with
post-traumatic stress disorder.
They experienced a trauma thataffected them in such a way that
they couldn't deal with it, andbecause they didn't deal with
(35:29):
it, it needed to be addressed.
And because they haven'taddressed this situation, it's
causing them further and furthertraumatic incidents.
It's causing them furtherstress.
It's causing them to developpoor coping mechanisms, often
enough that we wind up doingthat.
We wind up trying to solve theproblem ourselves and develop
(35:50):
poor coping mechanisms.
Whether it's behavioral things,whether it's a substance, we
wind up trying to help ourselvesbut in turn, we wind up causing
more damage when we should havegone and actually talked with
someone, when we should haveactually gone and gotten help.
And that's something thatindividuals.
(36:11):
That's a decision thatindividuals have to make for
themselves, but it happens andit can happen in the blink of an
eye.
It can happen at any moment.
The only thing we can do is onemitigate the situation once it
comes and then address it oncewe've successfully navigated the
(36:34):
situation.
Address it, whether it'sindividually, whether it's with
a group of people that you trust, whether it's with a mental
health provider, whether it's amember of clergy, it doesn't
matter, but you address it.
Don't act like I did.
I was being Mr Macho Wasn'tbothering me and truly I felt
(36:55):
that it wasn't, but clearly itwas, because once I addressed it
I no longer had that issueanymore.
So if there's anything you cantake away from this particular
podcast, aside from, you knowthe fact that it doesn't matter
(37:15):
what your job is, you can beexposed to traumatic incidents.
Take away the fact that we needto put our egos aside.
We need to put what we think weknow and what we think we can
handle aside and be honest withourselves to be able to sit
(37:38):
there and take it a good longhard.
Look at what we've gone throughWhether it's one incident,
whether it's repeated incidents,you know.
Take a good long hard.
Look at it and start trying tocome to grips with what you
experienced and try to find aresolution for it.
Maybe it doesn't need aresolution, maybe it already has
(38:00):
a resolution from the time thatyou think about it, but at
least think about it.
At least give it the time andthe respect that the incident
deserves to make sure you'reokay to figure out whatever
lessons you needed to learn fromthat particular incident and
move on to the next and if it's,if you're taking that time to
(38:26):
reflect and to acknowledge whatyou went through and you make
that determination.
This is not something I can doon my own, or maybe I'll try to
do it and then you decide lateron.
This is not something I can doon my own.
Put the ego aside, guys.
Push that to the side and gofind somebody to talk to.
Could be somebody you trust, bea co-worker, could be a friend,
(38:49):
could be your spouse, could bea member of clergy.
Find somebody you trust.
And if you can't find anindividual or maybe you're just
concerned that if you express itto one of these individuals
that you know it's going toaffect how they see you, which
is something that happens oftenenough, it happens a tremendous
amount then go see someone.
(39:12):
Go see a mental healthprofessional, a counselor, a
psychiatrist, a psychologist, itdoesn't matter.
Go see someone in the mentalhealth field that can help you
navigate whatever situationyou're going through.
You know I wrote a paper aboutit on, or paper on PTSD when I
(39:35):
was still in school and I talkedin there about children
developing PTSD due to domesticviolence in the home, and there
were a lot of people that didn'tknow that that occurred.
They didn't know that childrencould develop PTSD because of
the constant exposure todomestic violence.
(39:55):
How many people think aboutyourself, think about your
friends?
How many people do you know aresensitive when it comes to
domestic violence?
Sensitive not necessarily inthe terms of they get upset, but
you know, maybe when there'sloud yelling you see them kind
of shut down.
Maybe when there's loud yellingand screaming like that, you
(40:21):
know they too get amped up, eventhough they're not involved in
it.
You know, have you ever seenany of these things?
You know it can happen.
These traumatic incidents canaffect you, regardless of when
or where they happen.
Doesn't have to be a work thing, doesn't have to be a home
thing, doesn't have to be on theroad thing, it doesn't matter.
(40:41):
Yummy, people were diagnosedwith PTSD just from watching
9-11 happen on TV.
I was surprised by that.
I never in a million yearswould have thought that someone
could develop post-traumaticstress disorder because they
watched something on TV.
You know, having learned aboutit now, it makes a lot of sense.
(41:04):
You know to think about,especially if you're a person
that doesn't like horror movies.
You know, think about thatfirst horror movie you watched
and how it made you feel.
Did that possibly have aneffect on you as you grew older,
as you moved into adulthood?
Now you know not necessarilythat that's post-traumatic
(41:24):
stress, but it's just an exampleof how something that you saw
when you were a kid can stillaffect you as an adult.
So these things can happen atany point and in any place, and
the biggest thing we can do isacknowledge it, give it the
respect and time it deserves toat least look inside, put our
(41:47):
ego away and make thedetermination of how it makes us
feel and then address it,regardless of how you need to
address it.
I mean, let me rephrase thatAddress it in a healthy way.
Don't turn to alcohol, don'tturn to illicit drugs, don't
turn to pharmacology unlessyou've been prescribed a
(42:11):
medication for something similar, you know.
Address it in a healthy way andget a resolution for it so that
you can continue to do whateverit is you're wanting to do in
your life, whether it's continueto do your job, whether it's
continue to be with your family.
Whatever the situation is, it'sgoing to help you be a better
(42:31):
and happier you, and that'sgoing to be better for everyone
around you as well.
Okay, so there you go, guys.
Hope that one wasn't too longfor you.
I'm sorry if you've heard thatstory before.
I tend to do that a lot,apparently from one of my
friends.
Tell me, but I felt like thatone was kind of one we really
needed to get out there, wereally needed to talk about.
(42:54):
Even though it wasn't that, youknow, I guess the incident
itself was a big incident, butthe effect that it had on me and
things like that, it's notgreat, but even something that
minor, something that small, youknow it affected my life and I
(43:14):
didn't even know it.
You know, think about it, guys.
Have you been through somethinglike that?
Has somebody, you know, beenthrough something like that?
You know, it's the whole reasonwhy we did this one.
So, like always, I appreciateyour time, appreciate you
listening to me and until thenext one, you guys, be safe,
catch you around.
Bye.
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