December 13, 2024 • 29 mins
In this episode, we look at what happens in times when you feel that you’re not getting the help you need in the mental health ‘system’, and how there is potentially a postcode lottery in the NHS when it comes to mental health support in England. We look back at what happened with Wil when he last felt ‘hopeless’, and how a simple phone call potentially saved him from the brink.
Not only does Andy manage to talk for more than a minute at a time, he actually holds a pretty substantial part of the conversation! Andy reflects on how not every piece of outpatient support is ‘useful’, especially when it comes to CPNs and their own personal ‘miracles’. Wil reminisces about managing to stumble across an entire hospital to get Andy a can of Pepsi, whilst barely being able to make it to the toilet un-aided, all whilst wearing jeans about 4 sizes too big.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Thank goodness that one wasn't recording. Are you ready? I'm ready.
(00:20):
You're right, folks. Welcome to episode five of Breaking Down, Breaking Down.
Do you know, before we go any further, did you know that on Apple Podcasts, you're not allowed
to put the episode number in the title? No. Apple be Apple. Hi, everyone. I'm Wil. I'm Andy.
(00:42):
We say Apple be Apple.
I'm recording this on a MacBook Pro.
We both have Apple Watches, and we both have iPhones on our person, and I've got an iPad right
next to me, so the almighty power that remains, Steve Jobs, thank you so much, and we bless everything you've ever created.
So, we've talked a little bit already about how we got to know each other.
(01:03):
We've talked a little bit about life on Mental Health Ward, known as Bushy Fields, and one thing
that I haven't mentioned, and I don't think you can answer this either, is that we are talking
about one NHS trust here. Yeah.
I don't know what it's like at any other one. No. No, we don't.
The closest that I've got is there was a great student nurse who was doing a placement whilst
(01:27):
we were both doing the same ward together, who explained how it was a little bit different in staffs.
Mainly because they gave out free vapes for patients, which I think's a great idea.
Not because vaping's good, but because it removes that whole situation of people begging for
(01:49):
cigarettes, picking up nubs, stealing cigarettes, and everything else associated with that.
Because, you know, if you're in intensive care in a hospital, you ain't going out for a cigarette.
They're not going to wheel your head down.
Although, you can get the vapes, of course, which don't have the vapour, whatever they're called.
(02:09):
Then you've got the ones that I've got in my hand, for example.
I thought that was good.
This weird thing about mental health hospitals are, if you would, I don't know, walk down the
street and have a heart attack or, I don't know, your appendix burst, you'd go to the nearest
hospital and they'd fix you as best they could, and then they'll send you on your merry way.
(02:37):
Mental health, you have to go to your local authority.
So, it's a postcode lottery, and let's be honest, Dudley Council right now ain't got much money now.
Neither has Wolverhampton, neither has Sandwell, and Birmingham has absolutely nothing.
So, that creates a postcode lottery in itself, and it does mean that when you mix in bad management,
(03:02):
like the old chief executive of Black Country Healthcare, who resigned about a month ago, you
end up in a situation where patient care is lost, and I have come to a conclusion that when
you combine some of these things together, it's maybe not even the doctors per se deliberately
(03:26):
trying to make patients' life a nightmare.
They're just being told, we have this much money, it costs this much a night for a bed, you've
got to find a way of either turning patients over as quickly as you can, or you've got to find
a way of saying no. Simple as that.
(03:47):
Yeah, because it seems to be more and more, both when I was discharged, both from Rican Ward
and most specifically in Clent Ward, there's not a real rationale.
No, I like what the doctors say. Alright, it's understandable.
We cannot fix your mental health in here.
(04:07):
We're only here to help.
But I was in, what, four weeks? It's time gone.
That four weeks, I saw the doctor.
He was a good doctor, half old. Four times. Nurses?
A few good ones, yeah.
But there is no help in there.
(04:29):
No actual mental health specialists who could come along and you could say, or you approach
them, they approach you, situation, if you're in a bad day, or you just needed a specific answer for something. You're right.
(04:50):
And again, the same student nurse who worked up at Staff said that there'd be a psychologist
on the ward every day, which is something that we didn't have.
And yes, a lot of what patients like us need isn't necessarily something you can fix in an acute mental health hospital.
They can look at medications, if they can even bother to get that one right.
(05:12):
Um, they can do certain interventions, but it's a six month wait for CBT at the moment.
Talking therapy, I will say, is a complete and utter waste of time.
Not because of the fact that I don't want to engage with it, because of the fact that it is,
let's spend 20 minutes going through these tick box exercises, where most of the time I'm in between the box anyway.
(05:34):
Then focus on something very specific, which isn't necessarily about how you feel in that moment.
And then here's something I found off Google. Yeah. Probably with American voices. Yeah.
Paul, on my experience of talking therapy, tick box, oh, and let's see when we can get you back to work.
(05:54):
Just because I've come out of mental, I'm not going to use that word, mental health, out of
a specialist unit, let's say, are you automatically saying, because you've done four weeks,
you got your medication, life's grand.
I still feel shit, you know, some seven days out of, you know, a week.
(06:17):
And then I could have a week, two or three days, okay.
I'm at work, you got all that pressure.
You're not sorted out your mental health properly.
I've got 40 years to clear out of my head.
So, and that's a lot of work I'm doing on my own.
And with you and a really good nurse practice, you know, I've got at the moment, but then they,
(06:43):
like the one I had from talking therapy, just because he had a miraculous recovery and he's
got the job with them and doing this and that.
He thinks everybody can do the same.
It was about a step away from preaching the 12 step program. Yeah, basically.
The thing that I want to pick up upon there is about, oh, you know, the number of times that
(07:10):
I have done this in my commentary world, and I've been talking for about a minute about realizing
that my microphone's been muted.
So I'm going to have to add in a little bit there.
So in some ways, he was almost preaching a 12 step program to you.
Basically, you've been in bushy fields, you've had your medication for four weeks, you're on
(07:33):
your medication now, you seem okay.
Tick the boxes or you fail my criteria.
Let's have a look what jobs you can do.
And in both of our cases, we're both chefs. Yeah.
And they say, oh, why do you want to go back into being a chef?
Number one, the hours for being a is ridiculous, especially when you have to do what we call
(07:57):
split shifts, where you work, maybe breakfast or lunch, get two hours a kit.
And then you'd be back up to do dinner service.
And also, it's a bloody stressful job.
And the patient, unless you'm Gordon Ramsay. Yeah. Or that little twat. Jamie Oliver. Oh, God, Jamie Oliver. Christy Christy.
(08:19):
Let's make a 15 minute meal that requires you to use 14 pans, everything out of a packet, and
I can't even cut tofu properly. What a joke.
The thing that I always find, you're the same as me.
You're going to get your lift home in about 25 minutes. Yeah.
It's great when we have time together.
(08:39):
We don't do it every day.
Because otherwise, we are going to get bored of each other's company and end up smashing each other around the face.
But at the same time, there's a couple of things that come into play all at once. First one's loneliness.
And that's not necessarily loneliness is in, you know, I want a girlfriend, I want to be around a load of friends. It's loneliness within yourself.
(09:01):
Yeah, that empty sense of feeling.
And then on top of that, you'll end up with a barrage of appointments for maybe different things.
And you're repeating yourself over and over again. Yeah.
To the point it's a case of can someone just type this up?
I honestly thought at one point I was going to record it and just hit the play button on my phone. It got that ridiculous.
(09:28):
And we talked a little bit about preparing people for society.
One of the funny things is when they change your meds, and they completely changed my meds when
I was last I actually only had two days worth of my new meds before I got discharged.
Medication does not start to take effect that quickly.
And you don't know what the side effects are that quickly either.
(09:50):
Now, I remember the first time I was on tetralepam.
I actually had to teach six hours that day.
And I had one of the other lectures come up to me and said, have you been on some drugs or something?
Because I was bouncing around like a rampant rabbit.
And it was it was one of those massive changes.
But the change in medication and getting your body stable is important.
(10:16):
And also they say you're going to get a follow up within 72 hours.
They say you're going to get two weeks worth of medication.
In my case, that neither was true. Stop. Yeah.
And the thing is, one of the things that upset me the most was because of the fact that I spent
(10:38):
two and a half days over a weekend, you know, by myself.
Almost no electricity at one point.
Wondering what am I doing with myself because I've, you know, committed to try and get myself
better and I feel as bad as I was when I walked in.
I did revert back to drinking and then looking through my notes I got from my FOI requests from
(11:02):
doctors to doctors, it wasn't a case of, you know, Will was intoxicated and therefore might
not have remembered about the fact that we had this conversation.
It turned into very derogatory language saying that I had been lying about things and that I
was clearly acting in a manipulative way.
Now, I have two states when I'd say that my mind and my body disconnect.
(11:27):
The first one is just those manic episodes of depression when I kind of just forget about reality. Yeah.
Like, I sometimes need to read the front pages of the newspapers five times just to remember,
okay, what day is it? What's going on?
I'm not gonna lie to you, the amount of times I've been, you know, shacked up in hotels or just
(11:47):
sat there unable to sleep, watching the press report on Sky News about 12 times and still not having a complete grasp.
It's as if, like, the engine's turning over but you've got no clutch control, no throttle control, no nothing. You're just static.
(12:12):
And then, of course, the other one is when I get beyond that point, I use alcohol as a self-harming mechanism. I'll say it again.
I use alcohol as a self-harming mechanism.
So, we've actually been in the spoons together since I stopped drinking.
(12:32):
As much as I hate them and Tim Martin as a chain, you can get unlimited coffee for £1.29. Great! Yeah.
I sat in there for three hours on the MacBook, doing some work, had some chats with you, ended
up walking around Dudley afterwards.
I don't need to be in a pub to drink.
In fact, when I'm in a pub, the last thing I want to do is I'd rather go into even a spoons
(12:57):
to get, you know, some shark fin and chips or the worst cut of meat made out into a steak and chips.
But for me, my alcohol becomes an issue when I've lost hope.
And this is where the 12-step program might come in.
You know, they say, step one, you admit that you're powerless over alcohol, etc, etc.
(13:22):
Now, I'm not powerless over alcohol.
I let alcohol then become the thing that controls me because I just want everything else to end.
I'll be honest, I remember my birthday.
This year, I was crashing somewhere in Wolverhampton, bottle of vodka in my hand saying, you're
just looking up at the big man or woman upstairs saying, can you just make it all stop, please?
(13:48):
You know, I would have said that probably with or without the vodka.
But that was just my mood in that particular point in time.
And the alcohol was just stopping it for me.
I don't know how it works for you. Starts off steady drinking. Yeah.
And then he goes full turbo.
And I'll get the same. Yeah. Get to that point. The alcohol's controlling me. Yeah.
(14:13):
And then he gets to that point. Drink, drink, drink. I won't eat.
And I'll just constantly, from every minute of the day, it'll be drink, drink, drink, drink, drink. Yeah.
And then to get to that point where I felt useless, waste of time.
What the fuck am I doing here?
May as well end it all. Yeah.
(14:33):
And that's when I see myself and I think, oh, I need help again. Yeah.
I mean, I'll be openly honest.
I've had probably not so much as some of my people, but I've gone through 15 detoxes. Yeah.
And it took that 15 times and the mental health review.
And to be told, you have got mental health.
(14:57):
And the alcohol is also not part of the issue, but is a self-medication issue. Yeah.
Because I didn't know, generally, what the hell was going on in my head.
Even from a kid, I knew it was different.
When I was younger, it was that thing. Oh, you're a man. Man up.
(15:21):
I hate that fucking saying, man up. Agreed. Men don't cry.
It takes a fucking bigger man to cry than the biggest fucker in the street. Yeah.
I don't cry at anything.
Kick him in the bollocks, he'll cry. Yeah. Involuntary, but yeah.
But, you know, being told that I had a mental health issue was the biggest help I ever had.
(15:46):
The medication, yes, does help a bit, but it don't stop all the feelings.
It don't stop that, like you say, dark nights, where you're in there, and all of a sudden, it's
not like a fucking speedway, where it zooms on you.
It just creeps up slowly, and then it bites you right in the balls. Yeah.
(16:08):
Like reversing into a tunnel. Yeah.
And there's no way out of it.
You found a number, or can you phone back at nine o'clock?
Fucking mental health doesn't start at nine in the morning.
I'm already fucked up by nine o'clock in the morning, because I've given up.
By that time, I've gone down to the bloody local, I know, off-licence by me.
(16:30):
It's technically closed, but if you knock the little shutter door on the side, Alpen comes in
the man, or you walk down to the garage. Yeah.
Which, as you said elsewhere, why are they selling alcohol in a petrol station? It's beyond me.
Or you've got your 24-hour supermarkets. Yeah.
(16:50):
I mean, and the funniest thing is, at that time of the night, it's all self-service anyway,
so you don't have to deal with the embarrassment of stumbling in, and buying a bottle of vodka,
and putting it through a normal checkout, because the people working night shifts on the sales
stand, they're just going to open the bottle and give it to you at that point.
Would you like a glass of water? Yeah. No.
It'll be gone in two minutes.
(17:12):
And for me, I went down exactly the same road. I tried calling people. Yeah.
Now, we do have a group chat, and, you know, I tried going into ED.
I said that things weren't going well, and then, because I'd been in and out of the system,
I said, yep, we're going to take you to Bushyfield.
But at that point, I had no clothes apart from what I had on my back.
(17:34):
I didn't have my wallet with me, didn't have anything, and I was like, I can't survive a week
in there without access to all my stuff.
And at this point, one of the things that I also do when I get really depressed is, rather than
talking to the people who would give a fuck, I think to myself, I don't want to burden them with me issues.
(17:55):
So, I stopped texting people in the group chat.
I stopped, you know, talking to anyone at all.
I mean, I've deleted most of my social media anyway, because it's a load of shit anyway.
And I remember there was one time when you were like, well, get your ass back down to ED now.
Next thing I knew, I ended up in a hospital bed because I'd collapsed at the bus station.
(18:18):
They discharged me because, for some reason, I went from being not well to well. I don't know.
And then it was about lunchtime, wasn't it? One lunchtime.
I don't know why, but I just gave you a call.
It was like, Andy, I really need help, otherwise I'm just going to end it.
(18:38):
Actually, your word was, Andy, can you feed the cats?
And as soon as I heard that, I thought, you're drinking again. Yeah.
And when I came in, you was expecting me to bollock you.
And all I said is, well, what are you doing? Yeah.
(19:00):
And you, getting a conversation out of you, was not funny.
It was like, OK, let's break this down.
I've got what you're saying now.
It was basically playing a word puzzle. Yeah.
Is the easiest way to explain it. True. You know what, though?
At least I was trying to be a responsible pet owner.
(19:22):
I mean, yeah, I did get the cats fed and everything done, but the paramedics made me laugh.
Whilst I was examining you, I was more interested in your bloody TV than what was going on.
All the picture quality on this is brilliant.
What make is it, by the way?
We'll just sit here and watch this for a bit. Yeah. This is interesting.
(19:44):
Check his blood pressure again, will you?
Do you want me to do it?
Well, I wouldn't do it. May as well.
I don't even know what I was watching, because it would have either been Come Dine With Me or MasterChef.
Yeah, it was Come Dine With Me. Yeah.
And again, I go into that phase when I'll just end up watching rolling news coverage or TV.
(20:04):
24 hours of Come Dine With Me or MasterChef or that.
Actually, I need to turn on that TV and see if the MasterChef channel is still on there, because
they're going to have to cut a lot of episodes out.
And that was, for me, I don't remember much of this. I do.
You eventually got me into some clothes. Yeah.
(20:27):
How on earth did that happen?
Me and this lovely paramedic trying to address you was, you know.
I'd rather have wrestled a bloody gorilla at this point.
I ended up wearing jeans that were four sizes too big, and eventually ended up in ambulance
(20:49):
into my favourite place, the waiting room in the ED department at Good Old Russell's Hall.
Now, somehow, the one thing I do remember is that somehow, in amongst all of this, I'm talking
to the nurses at this point, trying to get you admitted. Yeah.
(21:12):
We was having this great conversation. He needs help.
He needs blah, blah, blah. Cool long story show. We turned round. He'd disappeared.
Where the fuck's he gone? Tell me his name.
I mean, where would he have gone? He ain't outside.
Got no face on him. I've got cigarettes. I've got his wallet. Blah, blah, blah. I've got his phone.
(21:33):
Next thing he comes walking back, hiking your jeans up, because they're nearly round your ass. Yeah. Round your ankles.
With a can of coke in your hand.
And the nearest coke machine is the other end of the hospital. Yeah.
You couldn't even walk to the toilet in ED.
But I somehow managed to make it.
Halfway across the hospital and somehow used because the vending machines at that place ain't
(21:57):
your standard touch pad anymore.
It's you know, you need you need a master's degree in order to operate them.
But I remember coming back and giving you a can of Pepsi.
I bought one for myself.
And the only other thing that I really remember was buying a trying to get something into my system.
So I bought this horrible cream of chicken sandwich. No, the soup. Oh, the soup. Yeah. Yeah. And then almost.
(22:25):
Well, I did kind of fall asleep on your shoulder to the point that many people thought we were in some lovely relationship.
That was comical because I did actually play on that. Yeah. In there. Yeah.
And the funny thing is, though, is that if we are going to send a message out to anyone from
this episode, is that even when you think that no one's going to answer.
(22:51):
Try give him a call. Try.
Because there's always somebody there that will answer. Yeah.
And it might not be a health care professional.
It might not be someone who fully understands.
I'm very lucky that you and I have a very similar life trajectory. Yeah.
But of course, I wasn't going to bash down the neighbour's door. No.
(23:13):
It has to be someone who you can trust.
Oh, that'd be ironic, mate, trying to knock my neighbour's door. Yeah.
They'd offer you a can. Yeah.
Do you want a can? Yeah.
Calm down, just have a can. Yeah.
And that was one of those things.
It's like, you know, because I remember that you started to text me getting worried about me.
So I'd kind of fallen out of the group chat and everything.
(23:34):
And it turned out to be, well, this person's wondering how I am.
Is it safe enough for me to say that I'm not OK?
I'd rather somebody found me and say they're not OK than lock themselves away and let it build
up and build up to that point.
They either make themselves really ill, which you did, or they do the ultimate thing, take their
(24:02):
own life when there is no need to. Yeah.
Because they think there's no one out there who cares.
There's always somebody out there that cares.
I'm lucky I've got family. I don't. You don't.
Although, to be fair, I find that a blessing and a curse. Yeah.
Because sometimes, you know, your family say, oh, talk.
(24:24):
You can always talk to us. But not everybody.
If you're like me, I don't particularly like talking to my family about my mental health issues. Yeah.
I can't open up and tell you anything. Yeah.
I might tell a couple of other people we know certain things.
But me and you know each other that well. We sort of...
(24:46):
I've got a sleep on your shoulder.
We always got to third base. Yeah.
But I can understand where people do not want to talk to their, say, wives or girlfriends or anything.
Because they think I'm going to be a burden to them. Yeah.
But then again, it might also make that relationship better.
(25:12):
If they do open up, some people will understand. Some won't. I had a...
I can't say my ex-wife didn't understand.
But she thought it was just alcohol. Yeah.
And she probably will still do. Yeah. Because that's her mindset.
But there is other people out there you can talk to.
(25:32):
I mean, it's Trisamaritans, different people.
I'm there for a bit to help.
But like you say, when we both said it, our demons started different times of the day. Nights. Yeah.
It's not a 9 to 5. I wish it was.
(25:53):
There was a little switch we could go. OK.
Let's say one day of 9 to 5 would have been like we used to. Switch it off. Have a month off. Yeah. And be normal.
And we actually, the mental ones, are the normal ones.
The rest of the world are mental.
We've got Donald Trump for that. So... Yeah, you're right. Trump will fix it.
(26:18):
I still can't believe he did that.
He should have added a cardboard cutter to Jimmy right next door to him. Yeah.
I will say that for me a lot of it is seasonality as well.
It's very ironic, and I didn't realise it until a couple of weeks later, that my sobriety date is my half-birthday.
(26:38):
Now, I didn't start celebrating a half-birthday for a very long period of time.
It just seemed to me that's the case.
I will always remember when my sobriety date is.
But at the same time...
PHONE RINGS At the same time...
And Andy's still in a fuck-up. Yeah.
About the bloody time you did. Yeah.
(26:58):
At the same time, for me, this time of the year, I talk about Christmas.
Actually, the biggest thing for me this time of the year is that my favourite sport is always
done again for another nine months.
I'm an American football fan, but I'm a college football fan first, before the NFL.
You get to December, yes, I've got bowl games.
(27:20):
Yes, I've got the college football play-off.
But that's just a tiny thing.
And then after that, I've got no fun for the next nine months.
So seasonality is a big thing.
But I think the most important thing is that we've learnt, or we've discussed today, is don't
be afraid to make that last message.
Because it might not be the person you expect, but someone is going to pick up.
(27:43):
And it is OK to say, I'm not OK. Yeah. Definitely.
And that's the trouble we got with, not so much the younger generation, but my generation and later on. Men don't...
What's the word I'm looking for? Show their emotions.
(28:04):
Oh, no, no, you can't do that.
You can't tell people you've got mental health issues.
I like how people can't show emotions, but as soon as they walk to a football game... Yeah, they cry. They cry.
Because, you know, you've got these...
Eminy's on a football pitch.
I don't watch football. 11 per team.
Like, you've got 11 people. Yeah.
(28:26):
One scores a goal, every fucker cheers, and they're all...
Now, this is the thing.
I see two blokes hugging each other. Oh, they're gay.
Look how many fuckers in a football match.
They're all hugging, kissing each other.
Does that make them gay? No.
And that's emotion, shall we? Yeah.
So it's OK for them to do it in a football game, but outside, if you've got a mental health
(28:50):
issue, you can't show emotion.
I think that's a perfect place to wrap this one up.
We live in a world of very contradictory lives, shall we say.
We'll pick this one up again.
Thank you so much for listening. I'm Wil. I'm Andy. Peace and love. Bye.
Thank goodness that one wasn't recording. Are you ready? I'm ready.
(00:20):
You're right, folks. Welcome to episode five of Breaking Down, Breaking Down.
Do you know, before we go any further, did you know that on Apple Podcasts, you're not allowed
to put the episode number in the title? No. Apple be Apple. Hi, everyone. I'm Wil. I'm Andy.
(00:42):
We say Apple be Apple.
I'm recording this on a MacBook Pro.
We both have Apple Watches, and we both have iPhones on our person, and I've got an iPad right
next to me, so the almighty power that remains, Steve Jobs, thank you so much, and we bless everything you've ever created.
So, we've talked a little bit already about how we got to know each other.
(01:03):
We've talked a little bit about life on Mental Health Ward, known as Bushy Fields, and one thing
that I haven't mentioned, and I don't think you can answer this either, is that we are talking
about one NHS trust here. Yeah.
I don't know what it's like at any other one. No. No, we don't.
The closest that I've got is there was a great student nurse who was doing a placement whilst
(01:27):
we were both doing the same ward together, who explained how it was a little bit different in staffs.
Mainly because they gave out free vapes for patients, which I think's a great idea.
Not because vaping's good, but because it removes that whole situation of people begging for
(01:49):
cigarettes, picking up nubs, stealing cigarettes, and everything else associated with that.
Because, you know, if you're in intensive care in a hospital, you ain't going out for a cigarette.
They're not going to wheel your head down.
Although, you can get the vapes, of course, which don't have the vapour, whatever they're called.
(02:09):
Then you've got the ones that I've got in my hand, for example.
I thought that was good.
This weird thing about mental health hospitals are, if you would, I don't know, walk down the
street and have a heart attack or, I don't know, your appendix burst, you'd go to the nearest
hospital and they'd fix you as best they could, and then they'll send you on your merry way.
(02:37):
Mental health, you have to go to your local authority.
So, it's a postcode lottery, and let's be honest, Dudley Council right now ain't got much money now.
Neither has Wolverhampton, neither has Sandwell, and Birmingham has absolutely nothing.
So, that creates a postcode lottery in itself, and it does mean that when you mix in bad management,
(03:02):
like the old chief executive of Black Country Healthcare, who resigned about a month ago, you
end up in a situation where patient care is lost, and I have come to a conclusion that when
you combine some of these things together, it's maybe not even the doctors per se deliberately
(03:26):
trying to make patients' life a nightmare.
They're just being told, we have this much money, it costs this much a night for a bed, you've
got to find a way of either turning patients over as quickly as you can, or you've got to find
a way of saying no. Simple as that.
(03:47):
Yeah, because it seems to be more and more, both when I was discharged, both from Rican Ward
and most specifically in Clent Ward, there's not a real rationale.
No, I like what the doctors say. Alright, it's understandable.
We cannot fix your mental health in here.
(04:07):
We're only here to help.
But I was in, what, four weeks? It's time gone.
That four weeks, I saw the doctor.
He was a good doctor, half old. Four times. Nurses?
A few good ones, yeah.
But there is no help in there.
(04:29):
No actual mental health specialists who could come along and you could say, or you approach
them, they approach you, situation, if you're in a bad day, or you just needed a specific answer for something. You're right.
(04:50):
And again, the same student nurse who worked up at Staff said that there'd be a psychologist
on the ward every day, which is something that we didn't have.
And yes, a lot of what patients like us need isn't necessarily something you can fix in an acute mental health hospital.
They can look at medications, if they can even bother to get that one right.
(05:12):
Um, they can do certain interventions, but it's a six month wait for CBT at the moment.
Talking therapy, I will say, is a complete and utter waste of time.
Not because of the fact that I don't want to engage with it, because of the fact that it is,
let's spend 20 minutes going through these tick box exercises, where most of the time I'm in between the box anyway.
(05:34):
Then focus on something very specific, which isn't necessarily about how you feel in that moment.
And then here's something I found off Google. Yeah. Probably with American voices. Yeah.
Paul, on my experience of talking therapy, tick box, oh, and let's see when we can get you back to work.
(05:54):
Just because I've come out of mental, I'm not going to use that word, mental health, out of
a specialist unit, let's say, are you automatically saying, because you've done four weeks,
you got your medication, life's grand.
I still feel shit, you know, some seven days out of, you know, a week.
(06:17):
And then I could have a week, two or three days, okay.
I'm at work, you got all that pressure.
You're not sorted out your mental health properly.
I've got 40 years to clear out of my head.
So, and that's a lot of work I'm doing on my own.
And with you and a really good nurse practice, you know, I've got at the moment, but then they,
(06:43):
like the one I had from talking therapy, just because he had a miraculous recovery and he's
got the job with them and doing this and that.
He thinks everybody can do the same.
It was about a step away from preaching the 12 step program. Yeah, basically.
The thing that I want to pick up upon there is about, oh, you know, the number of times that
(07:10):
I have done this in my commentary world, and I've been talking for about a minute about realizing
that my microphone's been muted.
So I'm going to have to add in a little bit there.
So in some ways, he was almost preaching a 12 step program to you.
Basically, you've been in bushy fields, you've had your medication for four weeks, you're on
(07:33):
your medication now, you seem okay.
Tick the boxes or you fail my criteria.
Let's have a look what jobs you can do.
And in both of our cases, we're both chefs. Yeah.
And they say, oh, why do you want to go back into being a chef?
Number one, the hours for being a is ridiculous, especially when you have to do what we call
(07:57):
split shifts, where you work, maybe breakfast or lunch, get two hours a kit.
And then you'd be back up to do dinner service.
And also, it's a bloody stressful job.
And the patient, unless you'm Gordon Ramsay. Yeah. Or that little twat. Jamie Oliver. Oh, God, Jamie Oliver. Christy Christy.
(08:19):
Let's make a 15 minute meal that requires you to use 14 pans, everything out of a packet, and
I can't even cut tofu properly. What a joke.
The thing that I always find, you're the same as me.
You're going to get your lift home in about 25 minutes. Yeah.
It's great when we have time together.
(08:39):
We don't do it every day.
Because otherwise, we are going to get bored of each other's company and end up smashing each other around the face.
But at the same time, there's a couple of things that come into play all at once. First one's loneliness.
And that's not necessarily loneliness is in, you know, I want a girlfriend, I want to be around a load of friends. It's loneliness within yourself.
(09:01):
Yeah, that empty sense of feeling.
And then on top of that, you'll end up with a barrage of appointments for maybe different things.
And you're repeating yourself over and over again. Yeah.
To the point it's a case of can someone just type this up?
I honestly thought at one point I was going to record it and just hit the play button on my phone. It got that ridiculous.
(09:28):
And we talked a little bit about preparing people for society.
One of the funny things is when they change your meds, and they completely changed my meds when
I was last I actually only had two days worth of my new meds before I got discharged.
Medication does not start to take effect that quickly.
And you don't know what the side effects are that quickly either.
(09:50):
Now, I remember the first time I was on tetralepam.
I actually had to teach six hours that day.
And I had one of the other lectures come up to me and said, have you been on some drugs or something?
Because I was bouncing around like a rampant rabbit.
And it was it was one of those massive changes.
But the change in medication and getting your body stable is important.
(10:16):
And also they say you're going to get a follow up within 72 hours.
They say you're going to get two weeks worth of medication.
In my case, that neither was true. Stop. Yeah.
And the thing is, one of the things that upset me the most was because of the fact that I spent
(10:38):
two and a half days over a weekend, you know, by myself.
Almost no electricity at one point.
Wondering what am I doing with myself because I've, you know, committed to try and get myself
better and I feel as bad as I was when I walked in.
I did revert back to drinking and then looking through my notes I got from my FOI requests from
(11:02):
doctors to doctors, it wasn't a case of, you know, Will was intoxicated and therefore might
not have remembered about the fact that we had this conversation.
It turned into very derogatory language saying that I had been lying about things and that I
was clearly acting in a manipulative way.
Now, I have two states when I'd say that my mind and my body disconnect.
(11:27):
The first one is just those manic episodes of depression when I kind of just forget about reality. Yeah.
Like, I sometimes need to read the front pages of the newspapers five times just to remember,
okay, what day is it? What's going on?
I'm not gonna lie to you, the amount of times I've been, you know, shacked up in hotels or just
(11:47):
sat there unable to sleep, watching the press report on Sky News about 12 times and still not having a complete grasp.
It's as if, like, the engine's turning over but you've got no clutch control, no throttle control, no nothing. You're just static.
(12:12):
And then, of course, the other one is when I get beyond that point, I use alcohol as a self-harming mechanism. I'll say it again.
I use alcohol as a self-harming mechanism.
So, we've actually been in the spoons together since I stopped drinking.
(12:32):
As much as I hate them and Tim Martin as a chain, you can get unlimited coffee for £1.29. Great! Yeah.
I sat in there for three hours on the MacBook, doing some work, had some chats with you, ended
up walking around Dudley afterwards.
I don't need to be in a pub to drink.
In fact, when I'm in a pub, the last thing I want to do is I'd rather go into even a spoons
(12:57):
to get, you know, some shark fin and chips or the worst cut of meat made out into a steak and chips.
But for me, my alcohol becomes an issue when I've lost hope.
And this is where the 12-step program might come in.
You know, they say, step one, you admit that you're powerless over alcohol, etc, etc.
(13:22):
Now, I'm not powerless over alcohol.
I let alcohol then become the thing that controls me because I just want everything else to end.
I'll be honest, I remember my birthday.
This year, I was crashing somewhere in Wolverhampton, bottle of vodka in my hand saying, you're
just looking up at the big man or woman upstairs saying, can you just make it all stop, please?
(13:48):
You know, I would have said that probably with or without the vodka.
But that was just my mood in that particular point in time.
And the alcohol was just stopping it for me.
I don't know how it works for you. Starts off steady drinking. Yeah.
And then he goes full turbo.
And I'll get the same. Yeah. Get to that point. The alcohol's controlling me. Yeah.
(14:13):
And then he gets to that point. Drink, drink, drink. I won't eat.
And I'll just constantly, from every minute of the day, it'll be drink, drink, drink, drink, drink. Yeah.
And then to get to that point where I felt useless, waste of time.
What the fuck am I doing here?
May as well end it all. Yeah.
(14:33):
And that's when I see myself and I think, oh, I need help again. Yeah.
I mean, I'll be openly honest.
I've had probably not so much as some of my people, but I've gone through 15 detoxes. Yeah.
And it took that 15 times and the mental health review.
And to be told, you have got mental health.
(14:57):
And the alcohol is also not part of the issue, but is a self-medication issue. Yeah.
Because I didn't know, generally, what the hell was going on in my head.
Even from a kid, I knew it was different.
When I was younger, it was that thing. Oh, you're a man. Man up.
(15:21):
I hate that fucking saying, man up. Agreed. Men don't cry.
It takes a fucking bigger man to cry than the biggest fucker in the street. Yeah.
I don't cry at anything.
Kick him in the bollocks, he'll cry. Yeah. Involuntary, but yeah.
But, you know, being told that I had a mental health issue was the biggest help I ever had.
(15:46):
The medication, yes, does help a bit, but it don't stop all the feelings.
It don't stop that, like you say, dark nights, where you're in there, and all of a sudden, it's
not like a fucking speedway, where it zooms on you.
It just creeps up slowly, and then it bites you right in the balls. Yeah.
(16:08):
Like reversing into a tunnel. Yeah.
And there's no way out of it.
You found a number, or can you phone back at nine o'clock?
Fucking mental health doesn't start at nine in the morning.
I'm already fucked up by nine o'clock in the morning, because I've given up.
By that time, I've gone down to the bloody local, I know, off-licence by me.
(16:30):
It's technically closed, but if you knock the little shutter door on the side, Alpen comes in
the man, or you walk down to the garage. Yeah.
Which, as you said elsewhere, why are they selling alcohol in a petrol station? It's beyond me.
Or you've got your 24-hour supermarkets. Yeah.
(16:50):
I mean, and the funniest thing is, at that time of the night, it's all self-service anyway,
so you don't have to deal with the embarrassment of stumbling in, and buying a bottle of vodka,
and putting it through a normal checkout, because the people working night shifts on the sales
stand, they're just going to open the bottle and give it to you at that point.
Would you like a glass of water? Yeah. No.
It'll be gone in two minutes.
(17:12):
And for me, I went down exactly the same road. I tried calling people. Yeah.
Now, we do have a group chat, and, you know, I tried going into ED.
I said that things weren't going well, and then, because I'd been in and out of the system,
I said, yep, we're going to take you to Bushyfield.
But at that point, I had no clothes apart from what I had on my back.
(17:34):
I didn't have my wallet with me, didn't have anything, and I was like, I can't survive a week
in there without access to all my stuff.
And at this point, one of the things that I also do when I get really depressed is, rather than
talking to the people who would give a fuck, I think to myself, I don't want to burden them with me issues.
(17:55):
So, I stopped texting people in the group chat.
I stopped, you know, talking to anyone at all.
I mean, I've deleted most of my social media anyway, because it's a load of shit anyway.
And I remember there was one time when you were like, well, get your ass back down to ED now.
Next thing I knew, I ended up in a hospital bed because I'd collapsed at the bus station.
(18:18):
They discharged me because, for some reason, I went from being not well to well. I don't know.
And then it was about lunchtime, wasn't it? One lunchtime.
I don't know why, but I just gave you a call.
It was like, Andy, I really need help, otherwise I'm just going to end it.
(18:38):
Actually, your word was, Andy, can you feed the cats?
And as soon as I heard that, I thought, you're drinking again. Yeah.
And when I came in, you was expecting me to bollock you.
And all I said is, well, what are you doing? Yeah.
(19:00):
And you, getting a conversation out of you, was not funny.
It was like, OK, let's break this down.
I've got what you're saying now.
It was basically playing a word puzzle. Yeah.
Is the easiest way to explain it. True. You know what, though?
At least I was trying to be a responsible pet owner.
(19:22):
I mean, yeah, I did get the cats fed and everything done, but the paramedics made me laugh.
Whilst I was examining you, I was more interested in your bloody TV than what was going on.
All the picture quality on this is brilliant.
What make is it, by the way?
We'll just sit here and watch this for a bit. Yeah. This is interesting.
(19:44):
Check his blood pressure again, will you?
Do you want me to do it?
Well, I wouldn't do it. May as well.
I don't even know what I was watching, because it would have either been Come Dine With Me or MasterChef.
Yeah, it was Come Dine With Me. Yeah.
And again, I go into that phase when I'll just end up watching rolling news coverage or TV.
(20:04):
24 hours of Come Dine With Me or MasterChef or that.
Actually, I need to turn on that TV and see if the MasterChef channel is still on there, because
they're going to have to cut a lot of episodes out.
And that was, for me, I don't remember much of this. I do.
You eventually got me into some clothes. Yeah.
(20:27):
How on earth did that happen?
Me and this lovely paramedic trying to address you was, you know.
I'd rather have wrestled a bloody gorilla at this point.
I ended up wearing jeans that were four sizes too big, and eventually ended up in ambulance
(20:49):
into my favourite place, the waiting room in the ED department at Good Old Russell's Hall.
Now, somehow, the one thing I do remember is that somehow, in amongst all of this, I'm talking
to the nurses at this point, trying to get you admitted. Yeah.
(21:12):
We was having this great conversation. He needs help.
He needs blah, blah, blah. Cool long story show. We turned round. He'd disappeared.
Where the fuck's he gone? Tell me his name.
I mean, where would he have gone? He ain't outside.
Got no face on him. I've got cigarettes. I've got his wallet. Blah, blah, blah. I've got his phone.
(21:33):
Next thing he comes walking back, hiking your jeans up, because they're nearly round your ass. Yeah. Round your ankles.
With a can of coke in your hand.
And the nearest coke machine is the other end of the hospital. Yeah.
You couldn't even walk to the toilet in ED.
But I somehow managed to make it.
Halfway across the hospital and somehow used because the vending machines at that place ain't
(21:57):
your standard touch pad anymore.
It's you know, you need you need a master's degree in order to operate them.
But I remember coming back and giving you a can of Pepsi.
I bought one for myself.
And the only other thing that I really remember was buying a trying to get something into my system.
So I bought this horrible cream of chicken sandwich. No, the soup. Oh, the soup. Yeah. Yeah. And then almost.
(22:25):
Well, I did kind of fall asleep on your shoulder to the point that many people thought we were in some lovely relationship.
That was comical because I did actually play on that. Yeah. In there. Yeah.
And the funny thing is, though, is that if we are going to send a message out to anyone from
this episode, is that even when you think that no one's going to answer.
(22:51):
Try give him a call. Try.
Because there's always somebody there that will answer. Yeah.
And it might not be a health care professional.
It might not be someone who fully understands.
I'm very lucky that you and I have a very similar life trajectory. Yeah.
But of course, I wasn't going to bash down the neighbour's door. No.
(23:13):
It has to be someone who you can trust.
Oh, that'd be ironic, mate, trying to knock my neighbour's door. Yeah.
They'd offer you a can. Yeah.
Do you want a can? Yeah.
Calm down, just have a can. Yeah.
And that was one of those things.
It's like, you know, because I remember that you started to text me getting worried about me.
So I'd kind of fallen out of the group chat and everything.
(23:34):
And it turned out to be, well, this person's wondering how I am.
Is it safe enough for me to say that I'm not OK?
I'd rather somebody found me and say they're not OK than lock themselves away and let it build
up and build up to that point.
They either make themselves really ill, which you did, or they do the ultimate thing, take their
(24:02):
own life when there is no need to. Yeah.
Because they think there's no one out there who cares.
There's always somebody out there that cares.
I'm lucky I've got family. I don't. You don't.
Although, to be fair, I find that a blessing and a curse. Yeah.
Because sometimes, you know, your family say, oh, talk.
(24:24):
You can always talk to us. But not everybody.
If you're like me, I don't particularly like talking to my family about my mental health issues. Yeah.
I can't open up and tell you anything. Yeah.
I might tell a couple of other people we know certain things.
But me and you know each other that well. We sort of...
(24:46):
I've got a sleep on your shoulder.
We always got to third base. Yeah.
But I can understand where people do not want to talk to their, say, wives or girlfriends or anything.
Because they think I'm going to be a burden to them. Yeah.
But then again, it might also make that relationship better.
(25:12):
If they do open up, some people will understand. Some won't. I had a...
I can't say my ex-wife didn't understand.
But she thought it was just alcohol. Yeah.
And she probably will still do. Yeah. Because that's her mindset.
But there is other people out there you can talk to.
(25:32):
I mean, it's Trisamaritans, different people.
I'm there for a bit to help.
But like you say, when we both said it, our demons started different times of the day. Nights. Yeah.
It's not a 9 to 5. I wish it was.
(25:53):
There was a little switch we could go. OK.
Let's say one day of 9 to 5 would have been like we used to. Switch it off. Have a month off. Yeah. And be normal.
And we actually, the mental ones, are the normal ones.
The rest of the world are mental.
We've got Donald Trump for that. So... Yeah, you're right. Trump will fix it.
(26:18):
I still can't believe he did that.
He should have added a cardboard cutter to Jimmy right next door to him. Yeah.
I will say that for me a lot of it is seasonality as well.
It's very ironic, and I didn't realise it until a couple of weeks later, that my sobriety date is my half-birthday.
(26:38):
Now, I didn't start celebrating a half-birthday for a very long period of time.
It just seemed to me that's the case.
I will always remember when my sobriety date is.
But at the same time...
PHONE RINGS At the same time...
And Andy's still in a fuck-up. Yeah.
About the bloody time you did. Yeah.
(26:58):
At the same time, for me, this time of the year, I talk about Christmas.
Actually, the biggest thing for me this time of the year is that my favourite sport is always
done again for another nine months.
I'm an American football fan, but I'm a college football fan first, before the NFL.
You get to December, yes, I've got bowl games.
(27:20):
Yes, I've got the college football play-off.
But that's just a tiny thing.
And then after that, I've got no fun for the next nine months.
So seasonality is a big thing.
But I think the most important thing is that we've learnt, or we've discussed today, is don't
be afraid to make that last message.
Because it might not be the person you expect, but someone is going to pick up.
(27:43):
And it is OK to say, I'm not OK. Yeah. Definitely.
And that's the trouble we got with, not so much the younger generation, but my generation and later on. Men don't...
What's the word I'm looking for? Show their emotions.
(28:04):
Oh, no, no, you can't do that.
You can't tell people you've got mental health issues.
I like how people can't show emotions, but as soon as they walk to a football game... Yeah, they cry. They cry.
Because, you know, you've got these...
Eminy's on a football pitch.
I don't watch football. 11 per team.
Like, you've got 11 people. Yeah.
(28:26):
One scores a goal, every fucker cheers, and they're all...
Now, this is the thing.
I see two blokes hugging each other. Oh, they're gay.
Look how many fuckers in a football match.
They're all hugging, kissing each other.
Does that make them gay? No.
And that's emotion, shall we? Yeah.
So it's OK for them to do it in a football game, but outside, if you've got a mental health
(28:50):
issue, you can't show emotion.
I think that's a perfect place to wrap this one up.
We live in a world of very contradictory lives, shall we say.
We'll pick this one up again.
Thank you so much for listening. I'm Wil. I'm Andy. Peace and love. Bye.
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