June 13, 2023 • 41 mins
This week, Pat and Kyle sit down and chat about full tilt career changes. What does a full career change into IT look like? We talk about taking a pay cut in the short term, to benefit the long term, and settings some salary expectations as you balance you're new career
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Pat (00:00):
Hey everybody.
Welcome back to this week'sedition of Breaking Down the
Bites.
As usual, I'm your host, pat.
You can find me on Twitter atlayer8packet.
That's the number eight.
You can find Kyle on Twitter aswell, danath256.
You can find the show on Twitterat breakinbytespod all that
(00:20):
stuff and our socials is in theshow notes.
So, go check those out andfollow us on your platform of
choice.
We are pretty much everywhere,so come say hello.
We are especially active onTwitter, so definitely find us
and come say hello.
Don't forget if you like theshow, subscribe on your platform
of choice.
(00:41):
We're, we are just abouteverywhere that you can think
of.
So, go find us and hit thatlike.
Share and subscribe button thatreally helps getting the word
out there.
So, freshly back, Kyle is withus tonight, or I should say it's
Kyle and I tonight.
Alex is still hungover fromCisco Live.
No, I'm just kidding.
He is.
(01:02):
Oh, he is out and about.
So, it's all good.
We'll be back next week.
Kyle and I, and Alex will all behere.
At least I hope so that we aregonna do a Cisco live recap
episode.
So tune in, if you missed our.
Episode from two weeks ago aboutfirst time at Cisco Live.
Go check that out.
And then next week's will be therecap of what we did, who we
(01:26):
met, all that kind of fun stuff.
So really excited and lookingforward to that one cuz it was a
great time.
Let me tell you that, that'sCisco Live, they really know how
to put on an event.
So, real cool stuff going onthere.
So Alex, we'll have you backnext week and we'll, we will
rock and roll, but Kyle is back.
We are here with you in theflesh.
(01:46):
So Kyle, what's up man?
How you doing?
Kyle (01:49):
Yeah, another day in Paradise.
It's,
Pat (01:51):
it.
Kyle (01:52):
Getting ready for the Monday woes, I suppose, and here
we are.
Pat (01:56):
Here we are.
That's right.
It'll be my first time actuallyworking in a week.
So see what kind of, see whatkind of mess is waiting for me
and how big my inbox is.
So it'd be interesting to seewhat is that of actually people
that need something or spam.
(02:17):
So we'll see how how thatbalances out.
I'm hoping it's all spams.
I can just delete it all and Idon't have to do much, so I
don't know.
We'll see.
But yeah, it's riding outta acorner.
The wife is done with school forthe year.
So she sent her second gradershome on I think Friday, Thursday
or Friday.
And so she is all for summer.
And then a new batch of secondgraders awaits her in August.
(02:40):
So, yeah, the wife and kids willbe home with me while I work for
the foreseeable feature.
And but that's great.
I always love spending time withthem, and you never quite get
enough while they're work, youknow, they're doing their thing
and I'm, you know, slaving awayworking.
So it's all good there.
What else did I wanna say?
Oh, just as a reminder, I shouldsay, as a hot tip I'm more on
(03:01):
this in a little bit, possiblynext week.
But I am starting to study forthe CCNP security, theISEe
specialty.
For those of you that don't knowhow the structure is, CCNP has a
core exam.
And then basically you have totake one more test as a
specialty, and then you are CCNPcertified.
(03:22):
So, I am starting that hill or,you know, mountain depending,
whatever verbiage you wanna use.
And I'm also blogging about itto kind of keep track of my
studies and keep me pushing.
So, give it a couple days, butlayer8packet.io will be live.
Anybody wants to come in andcheck out blogs on how my
studyings done.
(03:42):
And go from there or ha you haveany words of encouragement
certainly share them with me.
So I'll also have my blog linkedon our website,
breakingbytespod.io as well.
So you can get there get'em frommultiple angles.
So, yeah come, hang.
If you've taken it before, gotany tips, pointers, whatever
certainly let me know.
But if you wanna follow myjourney for the CCNP security
(04:04):
so.
The core exam is for me first,and then the ice exam will be
later.
So focusing on core exam fornow.
So we'll see how that goes.
But I decided to spin it up and.
Do a blog about it keeps mehonest, it keeps me going in the
right direction and it forces meto have a little discipline.
So looking forward to that aswell.
So, layer8packet.io.
(04:25):
Give that a couple days.
It should be ready to rock androll and follow along with me.
So now we got that out the way.
This week's episode, we aretalking salary expectations.
What does that mean?
What does it look like?
What to expect in your firstcouple of years?
(04:45):
Are you transitioning into techfrom a different career or a
different industry?
Like, what does that look like?
Are you going backwards from amoney perspective?
All that kind of stuff.
So we're gonna, we're gonna chatabout that this week and give
you a good little insight on asto what some folks are doing and
how that kind of works.
So, any thoughts on that, Kyle,before we kick it off here, my
(05:06):
friend?
Kyle (05:07):
Yeah.
You know, something everybody'sgotta look at and weigh out the
pros and cons and stuff for yoursalary.
What kind of works, you know, ifyou're like you said, if you're
changing jobs or, you know,maybe you're just moving up in
the one that you already have,you know?
Pat (05:21):
Yep, for sure.
Yeah.
So I guess we'll start with theobvious, right?
What is a pay cut?
Right?
It, in the simplest terms, itmeans you're accepting a lower
salary than what you have now orjust say salary or hourly rate
and what you know, what you havenow at your current job.
So, but obviously there'smultiple things with that,
right?
It can be, you know, it's afinancial risk to a job change
(05:44):
or you know, but often.
When you come at it from a techperspective, say you're in the,
I don't know, medical field orwhatever, construction, whatever
and you're moving into techdepending on how many years you
spent at your previous industryor career, you could be making
(06:05):
more than what the startingsalary is in tech.
But tech is a.
Better industry in the long runyou'll make that up quicker in
the long run in a few shortyears than you would at your
pace at your current industry.
Right?
So I would say salary reallystarts to boom.
(06:28):
And again, everybody'sdifferent.
Everybody works at differentpaces or is a different head
space.
But I would say once you getoutside that help desk range and
you start.
Moving and shaking jobs.
I think you could really make upa lot of money and a lot of
ground with that within thefirst few years.
But it, it is kind of likeripping off that bandaid of
(06:50):
like, oh, I gotta, you know, Igotta take a pay cut to, you
know, for the first year or two,whatever it is, to then really
kind of move around, move andshake around.
So there is a risk with that.
Depends on your Your lifestyleand, you know, are you a saver?
Are you a spender?
You know, et cetera, et cetera.
So there's multiple you know,caveats to that.
So, you know, Again it's, Iguess there's multiple, some
(07:14):
common reasons for pay cuts,right?
So either you're, you know,again you're changing careers
transition.
That's a very popular one.
Obviously you're returning tothe workforce after an extended
leave, right?
So, Like maternity leave.
You went out with kids and youstayed out, you know, now you're
kind of moving back into theworkforce kind of thing.
(07:36):
Or god forbid, you had some sortof like, long, like disability
or something.
Now you're kind of moving intothat you know, you're
transitioning to a smallercompany, that's a reason for a
pay cut.
Right.
Some of the, and you're notgoing to, you know, go to work
for Facebook and then come, youknow, Stay out and come back and
transition and go to a, like alaw firm, right?
(07:56):
Or a smaller law firm, or youknow, whatever.
So, Again, transitioning from,or I should say transitioning to
a smaller company, that usuallyis a reason for a pay cut.
Or I know a few people that havedone this.
It's a demotion or taking a stepback in a role, right?
So I hear a lot of this.
I don't know, Kyle, I'll getyour thoughts on it too, but I
hear a lot of people, they wantto, you know, they've made their
(08:18):
way through it from the techside, and then they jump into,
Like manager roles cuz theythink that's the next logical
step.
And then they find out that themanager role really sucks and
they don't, they're not cut outfor it or it's just not their
cup of tea, whatever, and theyjust wanna stay technical.
Then if you're moving from amanager role back into the tech
(08:40):
role, sometimes that could be apay cut as well, cuz you're
technically quote unquote doingless title changes, that the
title technically is a step.
Back.
So I dunno if you have anythoughts on that.
Kyle (08:53):
Yeah, I've definitely talked to people who've done
that.
Like you said, it, it kind ofseems like the natural
progression of like, work yourway up and they get into it and
they're like, they've done techor hands-on.
They've been in the muck for solong that once they're out of
it, they're like, nah, I don'tlike this.
I'm wanna go back to where Iwas.
You know?
It's like, that's my happyplace, that's my comfortable
(09:15):
place.
So.
Pat (09:15):
sure.
Kyle (09:16):
Definitely I've seen that too and you know, gotta
reevaluate.
But I mean, money, mentalhealth, you know, gotta balance
those things out a little bit.
Pat (09:28):
Yeah, that's a big one.
I think the work life balancereally becomes a big part of
that too.
So if you're in a spot whereyou're basically, you know, the
top of the ladder from a techperspective, whether that's a
lead or whatever.
A lot of that can take a toll onthe work life balance, right?
(09:48):
So everybody, if you're a lead,everybody comes to you or a
manager, like.
Kyle said, everybody comes toyou and you basically just are
on the hamster wheel 24 7.
Right?
And then if you want to take a,you know, if you wanna put your
mental health, your work lifebalance, once that becomes a
priority, that often meanstaking a step back and, you
know, again, taking a step backcan come with.
(10:11):
You know, the pay cuts and titlechanges and, you know, things of
that nature.
So, so I think that's a big one,and especially in the last few
years with the whole, the covidthing and you know, the remote
work versus, you know, you know,in-house in office work.
It's just a whole new set ofchallenges, I think.
And, but it really depends onyour particular, you know,
(10:33):
situation and, you know, thingsof that nature.
So, that's one as well.
So, and then there's, you know,some of the other, you know,
common ones, right?
You start your own business,right?
That makes sense, right?
You're basically now you're justrelying on yourself for for a
paycheck.
And, you know, you're typically,you're not you're not making
what you're currently making outof the gate when you do your own
(10:53):
business, right?
That sort of thing.
So just a couple of thosepopular ones.
Reasons for the for the pay cut.
But I do find it interesting andit's, there's always this
question of, you know, Should Itake a pay cut?
Should I not?
What does that look like?
And again I've said this on theshow a million times, you know,
(11:15):
you don't grow unless you'reoutside your comfort zone,
right?
So, you know, hint, wink, wink,nudge, nudge.
Kyle with your cc n a, just doit brother.
Oh.
But anyway.
There's always this weirdjuggling act of should I take a
pay cut, should I not?
How do we do that sort of thing?
(11:36):
And again, this isn't a financepodcast or anything like that,
but yeah.
You know, looking at budgetsand, you know, staying within
your means and the economy thatall plays a large part of, you
know, whether you should orshouldn't you know, it's.
It also comes around family too,right?
So you gotta sit down andconsider like, you know, again,
(11:58):
life commitments, expenses, youknow, are you married?
Do you have kids?
Do you know, you know that.
Paycheck that you bring home,right?
Does that, does it cover, whatdoes that cover far as like
house bills, right?
Is it 50%, is it 25?
Is it all of it?
Like, you know, you gottaconsider that as well.
Again, kids you know, things innature.
What does that, what is yourcurrent salary doing?
(12:21):
Is it just enough to cover whatyou have now or do you have some
room there?
You know, things of that nature.
So, If you got some wiggle room,you know, that's probably
easier, right?
It's a, you're in an easierposition to, to make that cut.
But you know, in today's timesit's kind of harder to find more
pennies in between the couchcushions, right?
(12:41):
So that's just from a previousexperience.
And, you know, again, are youjust skating by or do you have
some room to, you know, go outand get a steak dinner every now
and then?
That'll definitely depend.
On what that decision lookslike.
And either way you go, I thinkit's gonna be ripping the
bandaid off, right?
You're just like, ah, like, youjust gotta do it.
But it's gonna hurt for a while.
(13:01):
But I think once you know, andit depends on how motivated you
are, right?
Huh?
So like, if you go into a helpdesk and be like, Hey, I can
really do this for a year, getmy experience under my belt, and
boom, you know, out the door.
I go to a cis admin networkadmin, DevOps whatever your
field is.
But it is a bandaid rip off forthe first year.
(13:22):
So just be prepared for that youknow.
It's an interesting conversationas far as, you know, taking that
pay cut or not.
So, you know, if your currentposition and salary sort of has
plateaued I know that soundsweird, but you're like, if your
current position in salary hasplateaued, you're always gonna
look for.
Something more, but that maymean taking a step back and
(13:48):
going in a different directionto get more in the long term.
I guess that's kind of what thatreally means, right?
So like are you at the dead end?
Are you too burn?
Are you gonna wait long enoughfor things to change?
Like what does that, you know,what does that look like?
You know, again, you can move.
(14:09):
It's a little more dynamic inthat aspect, but albeit it's
probably a lower paying, youknow, company or, you know, but
the potential for growth isworth it in the long run, that
sort of thing.
So that's always an interestingone to kind of tether in your
head.
You know, or like we said, youknow, you wanna kind of take a
step backwards.
You want less responsibility,not, you know, not more, you
(14:29):
know, things of that nature.
So, you know, or if it justcomes down to a plane, you know,
I hate my position.
Right.
You know, like, our good friendDakota over there at the beat at
it, dad, good.
Check his.
YouTube stuff out.
He's got some great YouTubecomment content.
He was a construction worker.
He drove a bulldozer for yearsuntil he stepped into this
space, and now he's a directorat an I S P up there at Oregon
(14:51):
where he lives.
So, you know, he's definitely aliving example of that and
saying, Hey, it can, you know,it can happen.
So, you know, and he's told usmultiple times that he just
basically hated driving abulldozer.
He's like, he is just not forhim.
All kinds of weird hours andbasically, you know, Mundane,
monotonous, you know, stuff andhe just wanted to do something
(15:15):
more.
So, interesting enough for him,he got into it and he's
absolutely killing it.
It's another one I saw at Ciscolive last week.
So, great dude.
Really cool stuff.
So I'll be on his channel thenext couple of weeks.
We're getting some contenttogether, so that's gonna be
cool.
So any comments in there, Kyle?
Anything else you wanna add?
Kyle (15:32):
Yeah, I would definitely say the that switching
industries kind of thing likethat, you know, jumping out,
like you said he was inconstruction, going into it,
getting your foot in the door,you might have to take that
initial salary cut to you know,get all that under your belt or
Yeah, just to get in the door soyou can get that extra money,
(15:53):
like you said, in in the ITspace.
You know, you kind of get the,those bigger bumps than you
would if you were just doinganother job.
And I heard an analogy for thisonce that was like, you know,
you gotta pull a bow back toshoot it forward.
Pat (16:10):
Sure.
Kyle (16:11):
And I was like, ah, it's a pretty good one, you know?
So I always like to keep thatone in my pocket.
Pat (16:17):
For sure.
Yeah, for sure.
Alex and I talked about this allthe time when we were working
together, you know, you know,and for somebody who's jumped
jobs a lot, whether that's rightor wrong, people have different
opinions on it.
Some says job jump jobs a lotlike myself.
You know, your next job shouldalways be your biggest pay race,
right?
So if somebody's not gonna payyou where you're at, jumping
jobs, somebody else will, right?
(16:37):
That's just, it's just what itis.
It's just the industry thatwe're in, and it's just you
know, the times that we're inand it's, you know, get your
money as fast as you can and,you know, hope to not hope not
to burn out on the way there orcompletely hit your job that you
wanna get outta tech completely.
So I don't think anybody's atthat point, but, you know, it's
a real consideration.
So, but yeah I would say mostpeople that I talk to or that we
(16:59):
talk to, I should take outthey're coming from a different
industry, a completelydifferent.
Industry or career change, youknow, et cetera, et cetera.
So that's a, that's always agood one to kind of see what
it's out there and where peopleare coming from and what kind of
jobs they're landing, you know,to get it, you know, to get into
the industry.
So, and obviously, you know,certification wise, a plus net
(17:21):
plus sec plus in that order.
I personally, I think in thatorder it looks pretty good on a
resume.
They get you through a door andkind of go from there.
So, That's an interesting one.
It's just a couple things wehave down here from to help you
prepare for a pay cut, I guess.
And again, it's, you have tothink about if it, is it just
you or are you affecting otherpeople?
(17:42):
Life kids.
You know, what significant otherwhatever.
So they, they have a say in thistoo.
Depending on how much of thehousehold, you know, your side
of the bills pay for or I shouldsay your paycheck pays for yeah,
I would just say, you know,There's all kinds of sites out
there, right?
Indeed.
Glassdoor is a big one.
Kyle, I think you mentionedfishbowl before on the show.
(18:05):
There's a bunch of sites outthere that basically you can
kind of get a general idea ofwhat.
They're getting title wise, orposition wise and in what part
of the country, cuz that is alsogoing to make a big difference
as well.
So, it's a very big differenceliving in California rather
than, you know, say Florida or,you know, here in Pennsylvania.
(18:25):
Cost of living is obviouslydifferent for everywhere from
the state's perspective.
So, it just depends on.
Your you know, where you live,where you're looking to are you
looking to relocate completelyor are you kind of staying local
to home?
But yeah those three the bigthree, Glassdoor indeed and
fishbowl, they help you kind ofget an idea or throw a dart at a
(18:46):
dartboard from a all right, whatam I really gonna be making, you
know, in this position for thisforeseeable future and see if I
can, you know, make that workright?
That sort of thing.
So on the flip side of that,Kind of gotta study your
personal finances for a bit.
And we kind of mentioned this alittle bit ago, but like take a
close look at where your moneygoes each month.
(19:06):
So there's a fly on my screen,right?
There we go.
You know, identify expenses thatyou can't control, right?
So, you know, rent or car,right?
Those are usually fixed.
You know, expenses, and then youkind of look at those that you
can control, right?
How much you go out for lunch,coffees you know, things of that
(19:26):
nature.
So kind of see where you can,you know, borrow from.
Peter to pay Paul.
Right.
That sort of thing.
Cause we, we've all done it.
Right.
So, again, kind of looking forways to reduce any of those
expenses that you can kind ofcontrol.
Right.
Have you, you know, have youwatched Netflix lately?
And if not, you know, Maybe takea break from that, you know, not
(19:47):
paying that expense or whatever,that sort of thing.
So again, it all rolls into, youknow, adjusting budgets and
reduces overspending, things ofthat nature.
That, that's always that'salways a big one.
I've always been a big fan ofthis.
Again, this isn't financialadvice or anything, it's just
kind of person what I've done.
But you know, I'm always in thegame of like paying myself
(20:07):
first.
So from every paycheck.
A little something getsextracted from that paycheck and
goes into a savings account justso you have something there for
a rainy day.
And it's worked really well forme.
So, yeah, just something tothink about the old adage of,
you know, paying yourself first,right?
That sort of thing.
So that's an interesting onethere as well.
(20:28):
Priorities, right?
So, Are you setting prioritiesto kind of allocate resources
the best you can, right?
That goes into budget and thatsort of thing with yeah,
definitely prioritizing yoursafe your goals there or
prioritizing your spending soyou get creating your own safety
net, et cetera, et cetera.
Credit's a big one too.
You know, it's such anoverlooked thing your credit
(20:50):
score nowadays, but it ispretty, pretty important, right?
Cause again, if you're movinglooking for a new house, Place
to rent, whatever.
All your credit's gonnadefinitely come into play on
that.
So, but again, if you kind oftake the pay cut you know,
again, paying your bills andbeing able to keep up with that
definitely affects your creditin that in that way.
(21:11):
So, but I would say the lastthing in that mindset is, you
know, as far as.
Like tips to prepare yourselffor a pay cut is know yourself,
right?
So you know who you are, you,are you a spender?
Are you a saver?
You know, that sort of thing.
So, you know, kinda don't buckthe system.
Like you, you know what you'regonna do.
(21:32):
You know who you are, you know.
Do you like to, you know, Kyle,you and I have a casino here.
You know, 20 minutes from wherewe live.
Do you like to go in and throw20 bucks in every now and then,
or, you know, or do you like tohit the bar and, you know, pay
for a round of shots at the bar,that sort of thing.
So you, you definitely know whoyou are.
And I think that sort of comesinto play as far as like, can
you really do that from apreparation perspective of,
(21:56):
okay, yep, I'm gonna take thisnew job.
It's gonna suck in the shortterm, but it's gonna be better
in the long term.
Can I do it?
You kind of have an idea of.
Yes I can, or no I can't.
Based on your personality.
Kyle (22:09):
Yeah, those are all pretty good.
I'd say another thing too is tryand, you know, if you know
you're gonna make this jump,potentially try to live like in
those constraints of the newsalary.
Pat (22:25):
Yep.
Good
Kyle (22:25):
know, so, so if you're taking a step back and you're,
you know, you're losing out on20 grand or something like that,
just be like, well, let's see ifwe can, you know, make it work
with the less.
And then, you know, at least youwould kinda have some confidence
there and you know, run somenumbers too.
The math doesn't lie.
Pat (22:42):
Yeah, and for guys like me, math is hard, so I try not to, I
try to stay away from that.
Kyle (22:47):
Yeah,
Pat (22:48):
Only math I can do is sub math.
That's it.
It's the only thing math I.
Kyle (22:51):
Yeah I'm sure there's some calculators online that'll help
you budget and do all that stufftoo.
Pat (22:56):
Absolutely.
Yep.
For sure.
No, it's a good one.
I think those are a couple goodthings, but yeah, we see a lot
of folks coming from differentindustries and trying to say,
okay, you know, try and get intotech and, you know, but I'm used
to the lifestyle or I'm used toa certain paycheck, things of
that nature.
It, you know, the only thing Icould really say is it doesn't
last forever.
Personally, I think I mean it'seasy for me saying this now cuz.
(23:19):
The position that Kyle and I arein personally I think it's worth
it to kind of, again, rip thatbandaid off and, you know, take
it, take that on the chin for ayear or two.
And, but again it depends on howhard you work, right?
So do you get, you know, do youstudy for a cert or for the next
cert?
Are you looking for the next piein the sky as you're working
(23:39):
that help desk job?
Or that first that firstbreak-in job?
Cuz if you do, then that makesthe time.
Shorter.
I think once you get thatexperience, get that cert,
whatever it is, and then thatkind of just, that shortens the
time on how long you have tohave the Band-Aid ripped off,
right?
Because then by that time, ifyou're a real shaker and a
(23:59):
mover, you get a cert, get ayear experience, you apply for
some new jobs and boom, you'realready, you know, you're kind
of back in the general ballparkof where you were when you
ripped the bandaid off.
So, but it definitely dependson, on, you know, what your
goals are and you know, wherethe the prize, you know, the
prize at the end of the rainbowis so definitely suggested that,
(24:21):
and we talk about this all thetime.
It, this, you know, thisindustry never stops.
There's always something to doand the next the next wrong of
the ladder to get to.
Whether that's a cert, whetherthat's a title change, whether
it's truly up the ladder as faras, you know, tech engineer.
Architect, whatever, manager,director, blah blah, blah that
(24:41):
sort of thing.
So that's an interesting one aswell.
So there's some kind of tips onhow to deal with that as far as
what that looks like from a newjob new, into tech, new industry
perspective.
Like I said, it's not gonna suckforever.
It just, it will suck in thebeginning, but it just depends
on how fast you work to getyourself outta that hole.
(25:03):
And not that it's a hole, butyou know, it's a hole to you
cause you took a pay cut.
So just getting that back.
But I kind of wanted to talkabout too, like setting some
expectations cuz I feel like.
I feel like there's a lot ofmisconception out there of folks
that just think tech is justthis green space of money and
(25:24):
people like lighting, you know,lighting money on fire, smoking
it as a cigar cause they justhave it to burn, you know, that
sort of thing.
It's definitely not the case inthe last couple years.
The budgets are what they areand.
You know, salaries are what theyare.
But I feel like this is with theyounger generation too, and I
don't mean to sound like a getoff my lawn an old man when I
(25:44):
say this, but like, there's alot of people out there, again,
especially the youngergeneration, that just thinks
they can get right outta highschool or right outta college
and then jump into like a seniorengineer position pulling down a
hundred K.
Like that just doesn't exist.
I, I don't know.
Do you have thoughts on that,Kyle?
Kyle (26:04):
I, I've definitely seen that before.
Somebody just, I don't know,maybe it's a good thing, you
know, having that confidence.
It's kind of unrealistic though,to just like coming in like, ah,
get, I deserve all the money allfor me, right?
Yeah.
So,
Pat (26:20):
Right.
Yeah.
I feel like that's a lot.
I feel like it's a misconceptionof Yeah, tech is hot.
No, no doubt.
And it's all cyclical, right?
So I think right now we're kindof in the downturn.
But I do expect the tech marketto kind of pop open here in the
next month to couple of months.
Cuz a lot of companies fiscalyear ends in the June or July.
(26:43):
Timeframe right around now.
So like, once they get a newbudget and the new fiscal year
starts, that's when they canhire some folk.
So I do feel like the techsector is gonna pick up here in
the next couple of months whilepeople get their new budgets and
they need, you know, they needmore hands to do more projects
and, you know, more support,that sort of thing.
But again you know, I didn'thave an argument with somebody
(27:06):
last night.
I won't name names or where Ihad the argument on, but you
know, and he came across asvery, to me, it was rude.
And again, I don't want to bethat old guy, you know, get off
my lawn, these young whippersnappers, blah, blah, blah.
I, it just it didn't come acrosswell that, you know, he
(27:29):
basically had it all figured outat.
Like 18 or 19 years old.
And I'm just like, dude, likewhat are you doing?
You know, like he just, youknow, oh well you gotta, you
know, you got a ccna, which isgreat.
Like fine.
The earlier you can get it, thebetter that sets you up for
success.
And I don't even mind theconfidence that he had.
(27:50):
That's not the problem either.
The problem that I had with himis just, he was just like, Well,
yeah.
My first job is gonna be asenior and I'm gonna be ma a
senior, whatever, and I'm gonnabe making, you know, X amount.
I'm just like that.
That doesn't happen.
He's like, well, I'm gonna haveto prove you wrong.
Then I'm like, well, first ofall, young man, like, that's not
where this conversation wasgoing.
(28:12):
Like, you know what I mean?
Like he just had this aura abouthim that I just didn't
appreciate.
And it's, again, it's not his,it's not his go get him attitude
or the gum shoe that he had.
I'm all for it.
All I was saying was nobody.
In their right mind, or I shouldsay no, but it's very difficult.
I shouldn't say nobody.
(28:32):
It's very difficult to come outof school with just assert and
no real life exp no real worldtech experience.
You just don't start at the top.
You don't start at a seniorlevel.
No one is going to give you thekeys to the network castle with
just a ccna.
It doesn't exist.
I dunno.
Call you something on that.
Kyle (28:52):
No, I definitely think you're right with that.
It just, You know, when you'replaying the odds I've never seen
people just jump out with certsand no experience and just start
making money hand over fistslike that.
Like without putting in the timeand getting the the experience
and stuff under the belt.
(29:12):
Could it happen?
Sure.
But I've personally neverexperienced it.
Pat (29:18):
Yep.
Yeah, and I was kind of tellinghim last time, I was like, dude,
like, like, you know, we, I didthis through high school.
I don't know, you started incollege with the IT stuff, Kyle,
is that right?
Kyle (29:29):
no.
Before that I was just kind ofdoing it as like a funny hobby,
but I didn't, you know, I didn'treally have any direction.
Pat (29:36):
I gotcha.
So I was doing this in highschool.
I was doing the Cisco NetworkAcademy, literally at the
devotee in high school.
And so, And then I took it againwith you in college, Kyle.
Like it was literally the sameexact course.
And it took me two or threetimes to like get my head
wrapped around what the hellthis is.
And so, you know, and I waslike, look, I've been studying
this stuff for years.
(29:58):
And then I didn't really get myfirst network engineer title
till 2013 and I didn't get myown keys to the castle.
Like the guy, like if somethingbreaks, you better know how to
fix it cuz there's no one elseuntil 2017.
Like Kyle, you and I went tocollege in 2004.
(30:20):
Like then it's a massive like,Time shift in years to like
really get to sort to the topright, or at least somewhat
mid-level and being called, youknow, having the engineered
title.
And so for this person to comeout and being like, wow, yeah,
I'm gonna, I'm gonna get asenior role and I'm gonna get
(30:42):
the keys of the castle with onlya ccna and no actual real wor
world experience.
It doesn't exist.
At least to me it doesn't exist.
I don't know maybe I'm just anold funny duddy, but no I would
say you gotta tether yourexpectations of what.
Your salary is going to be like,again, you're not gonna walk in
(31:03):
here, especially from a careerchange with no prior real world
experience and earn.
Even at a help desk level,you're like, don't come in here
and be like, oh yeah, you know,70 k like that doesn't really
exist.
Now, again, it depends on whatpart of the country you're in,
and it depends on the companythat you're applying for, right?
(31:23):
So, you know, every company isdifferent, but the averages are
just, they're just not that.
So, you know, just take a notefrom two gray haired.
Experienced gentlemen that aretalking on this podcast.
It just doesn't, it doesn'thappen.
It happens, you know, it doesn'thappen more often than it does.
(31:45):
So just take that for what it'sworth.
But yeah, I just found itinteresting that you know, we
had that little discussion lastnight and he just, he had this
whole thing about how he wasgonna do this, and this, and
just like, man, I, you know, Iwant to set the world off fire
at 19 too.
And it just doesn't play outlike he wanted to, which is, you
know, the whole deal.
So, I don't know if you have anymore thoughts or comments on
(32:07):
that call.
Kyle (32:08):
No, I think you pretty much you covered all of that cuz
same, you know, but what is itfull of piss and vinegar?
Is that, is, that is right.
Pat (32:18):
That's it.
Kyle (32:19):
But you know, I mean, if I knew what I know now, when I was
19.
I think to be a whole lotdifferent.
Pat (32:26):
Oh my God.
Yeah, I'd be I'd be living inthe Beverly Hills baby.
You know what I mean?
Anyway so actually I found thatan interesting Survey out there
that was run by C N B C as oflast year March of last year.
It was an interesting stat.
One third of job switchers tooka pay cut for a better work life
(32:48):
balance.
There you go.
So it happens more often thanyou really think.
People technically do gobackwards.
So, you know, last year orthrough the Covid thing, you had
the, you know, the greatresignation as they dubbed it,
right?
Or, you know, quiet quitters,right?
That was another big term goingaround people doing just enough
(33:09):
to not get fired, but.
Do no more, no less, you know,that kind of thing.
Which I've seen.
It's pretty rampant.
So I've definitely seen it.
But yeah people value their,like you said, call, they're in
mental health and, you know, thework life balance and I totally
get it.
Now.
They've got kids and stuff.
I, you know, I'd be with'em allday if I could, you know, that
kind of thing.
So, you know, with the remotething, and I think it's an
(33:30):
interesting trend that Companiesare having people come back into
the office.
And I think it's an interestingone.
I think it's for differentreasons than what companies are
saying.
It's for you know, they say it'sfor the collab and it's for, you
know, oh, you get to see yourcoworkers and blah, blah, blah.
It's, I don't really care aboutany of that, to be honest with
(33:51):
you.
I think it's, you know, they'vesigned.
Massive long-term buildingleases, and it's an empty space
that, that people aren't workingout of.
So I think they're trying to getas many people as they can back
in an office so they're notpissing money away.
But that's just my opinion.
Who knows?
I don't know.
I don't know what the hell I'mtalking about.
I'm surprised people listened tous at all.
So there you go.
(34:11):
I'm gonna say it right now.
So, But yeah it's an interestingsurvey that they had here.
They basically said about 20% ofworkers said they would take a
10% pay cut if it meant theycould work for themselves or
have better hours.
So, right.
There you go.
Work life balance is huge.
You know, we talk about it allthe time, you know.
You gotta be able to go forwardand you gotta take care of
(34:31):
yourself.
That's the number one thing.
You know, people want to beconnected all the time.
And you know, your work phone'sat your side all the time.
It's like, why?
For what?
To work, you know, to getyourself buried into work and
God forbid something happened toyou, that place will have that
seat filled before your freakingbody's
Kyle (34:50):
All right.
Pat (34:50):
you know what I mean?
So lot.
So, I mean, that's, it's notnegative.
That's just the way it is.
You know, so it's an interestingone there.
You know, it, again, you haveall these decisions to to make
or to consider I should say.
When kind of.
You know, making that transitionand whatnot.
But it's definitely it'sdefinitely a trend in, you know,
(35:12):
sort of taking a step back tomove forward, especially in the
last three years with the Covidthing.
I think it's, I think it's morerampant than maybe even before.
You know, before that somewhatof a normal world.
I think it's a little too risky,but now I think in the Covid
era, Or I should say the postcovid world which I think is
weird too, and this is kind ofoff the topic, but like we talk
(35:33):
about.
Time periods like in thiscountry.
Like, I remember Kyle was like,oh yeah, pre nine 11 or now it's
post, then it was post nine 11and now it's pre Covid and post
covid.
Like we, we had these eventsthat like mark time and like,
it's just so weird.
Anyway, it's just like, oh, likewhat kind of time you talking
about?
This is before Covid or afterCovid.
(35:54):
I'm like gee.
Anyway So, yeah, that's aninteresting one here to say
that, you know, like I said, athird of job switchers took a
pay cut.
So for those of you that arethinking about it, it's not as
uncommon as you may think peopleare doing it.
So, I would say look, especiallyif you're going into tech, I
think the future is very brightas it always usually is.
We're the folks drivinginnovation and.
(36:15):
You know, playing with all thecool stuff.
So, depends on how hard youwork.
It could be a year, it could betwo, it could be five.
It just depends on, you know,kind of how hard you are willing
to work to get there and get tothe next rung and, you know, get
you back on, you know, on parwith your salary before you made
the change.
So that's definitely somethingto to kind of look forward to
there.
So, anything else, Kyle?
Kyle (36:37):
No.
I mean, come play with us, youknow, or get piled into the IT
space.
Pat (36:42):
That's it.
And that's the other thing too.
I kind of mentioned that from anold man perspective, cuz I've
definitely dealt with this froma newbie perspective when I was
a young pup that was, you know,wet behind his ears.
If you will, as the saying goeshere in the States I've
definitely seen old people, or Ishould say old people, older
people, or more seasoned peoplein this industry kind of hang on
(37:05):
to knowledge, just so they feellike they have.
I don't wanna say a purpose, butlike, Hey, they can't fire me if
I'm the only one that knowsthis.
You know, that sort of thing.
Ha.
Have you ever come across thatKyle?
Kyle (37:17):
Yeah.
All the time
Pat (37:19):
Yeah.
Happens all the time.
Kyle (37:21):
yeah, just so they they stay relevant or stay
Pat (37:25):
yeah.
Kyle (37:25):
something.
Pat (37:26):
Yep.
I don't see it as much now, butlike when I was a newbie, man,
that happened all the time.
There was just some moreseasoned folks that basically
would not share knowledge withyou just because they thought.
You were gonna like take theirjob or, you know, if somebody
else knew it outside of them,they weren't needed anymore.
I'm like, dude, like that's noteven close to being correct.
There's, trust me when I saythis, there is enough work for
(37:49):
everybody.
Like it's just, it just is whatit is.
Like this, the whole world runson tech.
There is definitely enough workfor everybody.
So don't let that be a hindranceand yeah, come hang out.
Come.
Like Kyle said, come play withus and we'll be we'll be waiting
and.
Yeah, if that means I could doless and kind of share some of
my workload, man, I'd take 10people tomorrow.
(38:11):
You know what I mean?
I would take that tomorrow ahundred percent.
So yeah, so I, that's kind ofit.
That was a, it was a bit of ashort one just cuz of the topic
and whatnot.
So I think these non-technicaltopics I think do a little
shorter just cuz of the natureof them.
But yeah, we definitely got somesuggestions from some folks as
far as some topics.
So we wanted to throw that outthere.
(38:32):
And this was one of them thatwas, that came up quite a bit.
So, you know, kind of how toprepare or what that looks like
from salary cut perspective justto get into tech that sort of
thing that one came up quite abit.
So, we figured we would do oneon this and yeah, we'll be we'll
be doing the Cisco Live recapone next week when Alex gets
back with us here.
So we figured we'll sneak thisone in and see what everybody
(38:53):
thinks.
So if you got any tips for us orsomething that we missed, or if
you think we're completely fullof shit.
Definitely let us know.
I don't care.
Either way, let us know.
It's cool we're big boys.
We can take it.
So, yeah, let us know.
Hit us up on Twitter or email usor any of that kind of stuff.
We'll definitely yeah, the moreconversation we had, the better
and we'll see see where thingsgo.
(39:13):
So Kyle, anything else before weput the old stamp on this one?
Kyle (39:17):
No, I think that's it.
Pat (39:19):
Cool.
Look at that.
Another successful, or at leastI hope so successful episode.
I'm gonna thank everybody forjoining this week on breaking
Down the Bites.
Again, make sure you visit ourwebsite, breakingbytespod.io
where you can subscribe to theshow on your platform or choice.
Right?
There's links up there for TheApple Podcast, Spotify, Google
(39:39):
Podcast Stitcher.
Or if you just need an RSS feedthat's up there too.
So go pluck what you wish.
Kyle, you gotta gimme a bio manfor the for the website.
I still have Dean's stuff upthere, so I got you and Alex on
a bio, a nice little headshot,and we'll throw you up there so
people can see what your uglymug looks
Kyle (39:56):
Oh my goodness.
Pat (39:58):
I'm in there.
Kyle (39:58):
be be breaking the internet in all the wrong ways.
Pat (40:03):
That's it.
Like, oh, our podcast is superpopular cuz you're so ugly,
Kyle.
Is that what it's it's possible.
Stay tuned folks.
You don't know.
Stranger Things have gone viral.
Let's go while you're in theApple Podcast, cuz that's where
most of you listen.
Throw us a rating, that would beawesome.
Or leave us a review that playswith the algorithms to get more.
(40:25):
More eyes and ears on us, whichis always the goal of this.
So, or, you know, simply tell afriend that works just as well
in today's check driven world.
Word of mouth that, that seemsto be super popular, right?
So, that helps us out too.
Again, social's, LinkedIn,Twitter Facebook Discord server.
It's all out there.
And the show notes come say, hisurvey the.
(40:48):
It's like a, it's just not asatisfaction survey, but it's
basically just a suggestions boxsort of thing.
Just helps us kind of hone inwho you are, you know, that sort
of thing.
So we don't really know who youare, it's just gives us pretty
answers and charts and graphsand stuff like that.
And then we kind of, we aim ourcontent around that.
So if you wanna hear something,let us know.
In the survey, at the bo at thevery last question is is an open
(41:10):
text box.
You can kind of type what youwant and see what.
Yeah, if you want us to do acertain episode on something,
certainly let us know.
We can we can certainly do that.
So again, Kyle, man, it's beenawesome as usual.
Thanks for hanging and everybodyout there.
Thanks for hanging.
We'll see you next week
Kyle (41:25):
So along.
Hey everybody.
Welcome back to this week'sedition of Breaking Down the
Bites.
As usual, I'm your host, pat.
You can find me on Twitter atlayer8packet.
That's the number eight.
You can find Kyle on Twitter aswell, danath256.
You can find the show on Twitterat breakinbytespod all that
(00:20):
stuff and our socials is in theshow notes.
So, go check those out andfollow us on your platform of
choice.
We are pretty much everywhere,so come say hello.
We are especially active onTwitter, so definitely find us
and come say hello.
Don't forget if you like theshow, subscribe on your platform
of choice.
(00:41):
We're, we are just abouteverywhere that you can think
of.
So, go find us and hit thatlike.
Share and subscribe button thatreally helps getting the word
out there.
So, freshly back, Kyle is withus tonight, or I should say it's
Kyle and I tonight.
Alex is still hungover fromCisco Live.
No, I'm just kidding.
He is.
(01:02):
Oh, he is out and about.
So, it's all good.
We'll be back next week.
Kyle and I, and Alex will all behere.
At least I hope so that we aregonna do a Cisco live recap
episode.
So tune in, if you missed our.
Episode from two weeks ago aboutfirst time at Cisco Live.
Go check that out.
And then next week's will be therecap of what we did, who we
(01:26):
met, all that kind of fun stuff.
So really excited and lookingforward to that one cuz it was a
great time.
Let me tell you that, that'sCisco Live, they really know how
to put on an event.
So, real cool stuff going onthere.
So Alex, we'll have you backnext week and we'll, we will
rock and roll, but Kyle is back.
We are here with you in theflesh.
(01:46):
So Kyle, what's up man?
How you doing?
Kyle (01:49):
Yeah, another day in Paradise.
It's,
Pat (01:51):
it.
Kyle (01:52):
Getting ready for the Monday woes, I suppose, and here
we are.
Pat (01:56):
Here we are.
That's right.
It'll be my first time actuallyworking in a week.
So see what kind of, see whatkind of mess is waiting for me
and how big my inbox is.
So it'd be interesting to seewhat is that of actually people
that need something or spam.
(02:17):
So we'll see how how thatbalances out.
I'm hoping it's all spams.
I can just delete it all and Idon't have to do much, so I
don't know.
We'll see.
But yeah, it's riding outta acorner.
The wife is done with school forthe year.
So she sent her second gradershome on I think Friday, Thursday
or Friday.
And so she is all for summer.
And then a new batch of secondgraders awaits her in August.
(02:40):
So, yeah, the wife and kids willbe home with me while I work for
the foreseeable feature.
And but that's great.
I always love spending time withthem, and you never quite get
enough while they're work, youknow, they're doing their thing
and I'm, you know, slaving awayworking.
So it's all good there.
What else did I wanna say?
Oh, just as a reminder, I shouldsay, as a hot tip I'm more on
(03:01):
this in a little bit, possiblynext week.
But I am starting to study forthe CCNP security, theISEe
specialty.
For those of you that don't knowhow the structure is, CCNP has a
core exam.
And then basically you have totake one more test as a
specialty, and then you are CCNPcertified.
(03:22):
So, I am starting that hill or,you know, mountain depending,
whatever verbiage you wanna use.
And I'm also blogging about itto kind of keep track of my
studies and keep me pushing.
So, give it a couple days, butlayer8packet.io will be live.
Anybody wants to come in andcheck out blogs on how my
studyings done.
(03:42):
And go from there or ha you haveany words of encouragement
certainly share them with me.
So I'll also have my blog linkedon our website,
breakingbytespod.io as well.
So you can get there get'em frommultiple angles.
So, yeah come, hang.
If you've taken it before, gotany tips, pointers, whatever
certainly let me know.
But if you wanna follow myjourney for the CCNP security
(04:04):
so.
The core exam is for me first,and then the ice exam will be
later.
So focusing on core exam fornow.
So we'll see how that goes.
But I decided to spin it up and.
Do a blog about it keeps mehonest, it keeps me going in the
right direction and it forces meto have a little discipline.
So looking forward to that aswell.
So, layer8packet.io.
(04:25):
Give that a couple days.
It should be ready to rock androll and follow along with me.
So now we got that out the way.
This week's episode, we aretalking salary expectations.
What does that mean?
What does it look like?
What to expect in your firstcouple of years?
(04:45):
Are you transitioning into techfrom a different career or a
different industry?
Like, what does that look like?
Are you going backwards from amoney perspective?
All that kind of stuff.
So we're gonna, we're gonna chatabout that this week and give
you a good little insight on asto what some folks are doing and
how that kind of works.
So, any thoughts on that, Kyle,before we kick it off here, my
(05:06):
friend?
Kyle (05:07):
Yeah.
You know, something everybody'sgotta look at and weigh out the
pros and cons and stuff for yoursalary.
What kind of works, you know, ifyou're like you said, if you're
changing jobs or, you know,maybe you're just moving up in
the one that you already have,you know?
Pat (05:21):
Yep, for sure.
Yeah.
So I guess we'll start with theobvious, right?
What is a pay cut?
Right?
It, in the simplest terms, itmeans you're accepting a lower
salary than what you have now orjust say salary or hourly rate
and what you know, what you havenow at your current job.
So, but obviously there'smultiple things with that,
right?
It can be, you know, it's afinancial risk to a job change
(05:44):
or you know, but often.
When you come at it from a techperspective, say you're in the,
I don't know, medical field orwhatever, construction, whatever
and you're moving into techdepending on how many years you
spent at your previous industryor career, you could be making
(06:05):
more than what the startingsalary is in tech.
But tech is a.
Better industry in the long runyou'll make that up quicker in
the long run in a few shortyears than you would at your
pace at your current industry.
Right?
So I would say salary reallystarts to boom.
(06:28):
And again, everybody'sdifferent.
Everybody works at differentpaces or is a different head
space.
But I would say once you getoutside that help desk range and
you start.
Moving and shaking jobs.
I think you could really make upa lot of money and a lot of
ground with that within thefirst few years.
But it, it is kind of likeripping off that bandaid of
(06:50):
like, oh, I gotta, you know, Igotta take a pay cut to, you
know, for the first year or two,whatever it is, to then really
kind of move around, move andshake around.
So there is a risk with that.
Depends on your Your lifestyleand, you know, are you a saver?
Are you a spender?
You know, et cetera, et cetera.
So there's multiple you know,caveats to that.
So, you know, Again it's, Iguess there's multiple, some
(07:14):
common reasons for pay cuts,right?
So either you're, you know,again you're changing careers
transition.
That's a very popular one.
Obviously you're returning tothe workforce after an extended
leave, right?
So, Like maternity leave.
You went out with kids and youstayed out, you know, now you're
kind of moving back into theworkforce kind of thing.
(07:36):
Or god forbid, you had some sortof like, long, like disability
or something.
Now you're kind of moving intothat you know, you're
transitioning to a smallercompany, that's a reason for a
pay cut.
Right.
Some of the, and you're notgoing to, you know, go to work
for Facebook and then come, youknow, Stay out and come back and
transition and go to a, like alaw firm, right?
(07:56):
Or a smaller law firm, or youknow, whatever.
So, Again, transitioning from,or I should say transitioning to
a smaller company, that usuallyis a reason for a pay cut.
Or I know a few people that havedone this.
It's a demotion or taking a stepback in a role, right?
So I hear a lot of this.
I don't know, Kyle, I'll getyour thoughts on it too, but I
hear a lot of people, they wantto, you know, they've made their
(08:18):
way through it from the techside, and then they jump into,
Like manager roles cuz theythink that's the next logical
step.
And then they find out that themanager role really sucks and
they don't, they're not cut outfor it or it's just not their
cup of tea, whatever, and theyjust wanna stay technical.
Then if you're moving from amanager role back into the tech
(08:40):
role, sometimes that could be apay cut as well, cuz you're
technically quote unquote doingless title changes, that the
title technically is a step.
Back.
So I dunno if you have anythoughts on that.
Kyle (08:53):
Yeah, I've definitely talked to people who've done
that.
Like you said, it, it kind ofseems like the natural
progression of like, work yourway up and they get into it and
they're like, they've done techor hands-on.
They've been in the muck for solong that once they're out of
it, they're like, nah, I don'tlike this.
I'm wanna go back to where Iwas.
You know?
It's like, that's my happyplace, that's my comfortable
(09:15):
place.
So.
Pat (09:15):
sure.
Kyle (09:16):
Definitely I've seen that too and you know, gotta
reevaluate.
But I mean, money, mentalhealth, you know, gotta balance
those things out a little bit.
Pat (09:28):
Yeah, that's a big one.
I think the work life balancereally becomes a big part of
that too.
So if you're in a spot whereyou're basically, you know, the
top of the ladder from a techperspective, whether that's a
lead or whatever.
A lot of that can take a toll onthe work life balance, right?
(09:48):
So everybody, if you're a lead,everybody comes to you or a
manager, like.
Kyle said, everybody comes toyou and you basically just are
on the hamster wheel 24 7.
Right?
And then if you want to take a,you know, if you wanna put your
mental health, your work lifebalance, once that becomes a
priority, that often meanstaking a step back and, you
know, again, taking a step backcan come with.
(10:11):
You know, the pay cuts and titlechanges and, you know, things of
that nature.
So, so I think that's a big one,and especially in the last few
years with the whole, the covidthing and you know, the remote
work versus, you know, you know,in-house in office work.
It's just a whole new set ofchallenges, I think.
And, but it really depends onyour particular, you know,
(10:33):
situation and, you know, thingsof that nature.
So, that's one as well.
So, and then there's, you know,some of the other, you know,
common ones, right?
You start your own business,right?
That makes sense, right?
You're basically now you're justrelying on yourself for for a
paycheck.
And, you know, you're typically,you're not you're not making
what you're currently making outof the gate when you do your own
(10:53):
business, right?
That sort of thing.
So just a couple of thosepopular ones.
Reasons for the for the pay cut.
But I do find it interesting andit's, there's always this
question of, you know, Should Itake a pay cut?
Should I not?
What does that look like?
And again I've said this on theshow a million times, you know,
(11:15):
you don't grow unless you'reoutside your comfort zone,
right?
So, you know, hint, wink, wink,nudge, nudge.
Kyle with your cc n a, just doit brother.
Oh.
But anyway.
There's always this weirdjuggling act of should I take a
pay cut, should I not?
How do we do that sort of thing?
(11:36):
And again, this isn't a financepodcast or anything like that,
but yeah.
You know, looking at budgetsand, you know, staying within
your means and the economy thatall plays a large part of, you
know, whether you should orshouldn't you know, it's.
It also comes around family too,right?
So you gotta sit down andconsider like, you know, again,
(11:58):
life commitments, expenses, youknow, are you married?
Do you have kids?
Do you know, you know that.
Paycheck that you bring home,right?
Does that, does it cover, whatdoes that cover far as like
house bills, right?
Is it 50%, is it 25?
Is it all of it?
Like, you know, you gottaconsider that as well.
Again, kids you know, things innature.
What does that, what is yourcurrent salary doing?
(12:21):
Is it just enough to cover whatyou have now or do you have some
room there?
You know, things of that nature.
So, If you got some wiggle room,you know, that's probably
easier, right?
It's a, you're in an easierposition to, to make that cut.
But you know, in today's timesit's kind of harder to find more
pennies in between the couchcushions, right?
(12:41):
So that's just from a previousexperience.
And, you know, again, are youjust skating by or do you have
some room to, you know, go outand get a steak dinner every now
and then?
That'll definitely depend.
On what that decision lookslike.
And either way you go, I thinkit's gonna be ripping the
bandaid off, right?
You're just like, ah, like, youjust gotta do it.
But it's gonna hurt for a while.
(13:01):
But I think once you know, andit depends on how motivated you
are, right?
Huh?
So like, if you go into a helpdesk and be like, Hey, I can
really do this for a year, getmy experience under my belt, and
boom, you know, out the door.
I go to a cis admin networkadmin, DevOps whatever your
field is.
But it is a bandaid rip off forthe first year.
(13:22):
So just be prepared for that youknow.
It's an interesting conversationas far as, you know, taking that
pay cut or not.
So, you know, if your currentposition and salary sort of has
plateaued I know that soundsweird, but you're like, if your
current position in salary hasplateaued, you're always gonna
look for.
Something more, but that maymean taking a step back and
(13:48):
going in a different directionto get more in the long term.
I guess that's kind of what thatreally means, right?
So like are you at the dead end?
Are you too burn?
Are you gonna wait long enoughfor things to change?
Like what does that, you know,what does that look like?
You know, again, you can move.
(14:09):
It's a little more dynamic inthat aspect, but albeit it's
probably a lower paying, youknow, company or, you know, but
the potential for growth isworth it in the long run, that
sort of thing.
So that's always an interestingone to kind of tether in your
head.
You know, or like we said, youknow, you wanna kind of take a
step backwards.
You want less responsibility,not, you know, not more, you
(14:29):
know, things of that nature.
So, you know, or if it justcomes down to a plane, you know,
I hate my position.
Right.
You know, like, our good friendDakota over there at the beat at
it, dad, good.
Check his.
YouTube stuff out.
He's got some great YouTubecomment content.
He was a construction worker.
He drove a bulldozer for yearsuntil he stepped into this
space, and now he's a directorat an I S P up there at Oregon
(14:51):
where he lives.
So, you know, he's definitely aliving example of that and
saying, Hey, it can, you know,it can happen.
So, you know, and he's told usmultiple times that he just
basically hated driving abulldozer.
He's like, he is just not forhim.
All kinds of weird hours andbasically, you know, Mundane,
monotonous, you know, stuff andhe just wanted to do something
(15:15):
more.
So, interesting enough for him,he got into it and he's
absolutely killing it.
It's another one I saw at Ciscolive last week.
So, great dude.
Really cool stuff.
So I'll be on his channel thenext couple of weeks.
We're getting some contenttogether, so that's gonna be
cool.
So any comments in there, Kyle?
Anything else you wanna add?
Kyle (15:32):
Yeah, I would definitely say the that switching
industries kind of thing likethat, you know, jumping out,
like you said he was inconstruction, going into it,
getting your foot in the door,you might have to take that
initial salary cut to you know,get all that under your belt or
Yeah, just to get in the door soyou can get that extra money,
(15:53):
like you said, in in the ITspace.
You know, you kind of get the,those bigger bumps than you
would if you were just doinganother job.
And I heard an analogy for thisonce that was like, you know,
you gotta pull a bow back toshoot it forward.
Pat (16:10):
Sure.
Kyle (16:11):
And I was like, ah, it's a pretty good one, you know?
So I always like to keep thatone in my pocket.
Pat (16:17):
For sure.
Yeah, for sure.
Alex and I talked about this allthe time when we were working
together, you know, you know,and for somebody who's jumped
jobs a lot, whether that's rightor wrong, people have different
opinions on it.
Some says job jump jobs a lotlike myself.
You know, your next job shouldalways be your biggest pay race,
right?
So if somebody's not gonna payyou where you're at, jumping
jobs, somebody else will, right?
(16:37):
That's just, it's just what itis.
It's just the industry thatwe're in, and it's just you
know, the times that we're inand it's, you know, get your
money as fast as you can and,you know, hope to not hope not
to burn out on the way there orcompletely hit your job that you
wanna get outta tech completely.
So I don't think anybody's atthat point, but, you know, it's
a real consideration.
So, but yeah I would say mostpeople that I talk to or that we
(16:59):
talk to, I should take outthey're coming from a different
industry, a completelydifferent.
Industry or career change, youknow, et cetera, et cetera.
So that's a, that's always agood one to kind of see what
it's out there and where peopleare coming from and what kind of
jobs they're landing, you know,to get it, you know, to get into
the industry.
So, and obviously, you know,certification wise, a plus net
(17:21):
plus sec plus in that order.
I personally, I think in thatorder it looks pretty good on a
resume.
They get you through a door andkind of go from there.
So, That's an interesting one.
It's just a couple things wehave down here from to help you
prepare for a pay cut, I guess.
And again, it's, you have tothink about if it, is it just
you or are you affecting otherpeople?
(17:42):
Life kids.
You know, what significant otherwhatever.
So they, they have a say in thistoo.
Depending on how much of thehousehold, you know, your side
of the bills pay for or I shouldsay your paycheck pays for yeah,
I would just say, you know,There's all kinds of sites out
there, right?
Indeed.
Glassdoor is a big one.
Kyle, I think you mentionedfishbowl before on the show.
(18:05):
There's a bunch of sites outthere that basically you can
kind of get a general idea ofwhat.
They're getting title wise, orposition wise and in what part
of the country, cuz that is alsogoing to make a big difference
as well.
So, it's a very big differenceliving in California rather
than, you know, say Florida or,you know, here in Pennsylvania.
(18:25):
Cost of living is obviouslydifferent for everywhere from
the state's perspective.
So, it just depends on.
Your you know, where you live,where you're looking to are you
looking to relocate completelyor are you kind of staying local
to home?
But yeah those three the bigthree, Glassdoor indeed and
fishbowl, they help you kind ofget an idea or throw a dart at a
(18:46):
dartboard from a all right, whatam I really gonna be making, you
know, in this position for thisforeseeable future and see if I
can, you know, make that workright?
That sort of thing.
So on the flip side of that,Kind of gotta study your
personal finances for a bit.
And we kind of mentioned this alittle bit ago, but like take a
close look at where your moneygoes each month.
(19:06):
So there's a fly on my screen,right?
There we go.
You know, identify expenses thatyou can't control, right?
So, you know, rent or car,right?
Those are usually fixed.
You know, expenses, and then youkind of look at those that you
can control, right?
How much you go out for lunch,coffees you know, things of that
(19:26):
nature.
So kind of see where you can,you know, borrow from.
Peter to pay Paul.
Right.
That sort of thing.
Cause we, we've all done it.
Right.
So, again, kind of looking forways to reduce any of those
expenses that you can kind ofcontrol.
Right.
Have you, you know, have youwatched Netflix lately?
And if not, you know, Maybe takea break from that, you know, not
(19:47):
paying that expense or whatever,that sort of thing.
So again, it all rolls into, youknow, adjusting budgets and
reduces overspending, things ofthat nature.
That, that's always that'salways a big one.
I've always been a big fan ofthis.
Again, this isn't financialadvice or anything, it's just
kind of person what I've done.
But you know, I'm always in thegame of like paying myself
(20:07):
first.
So from every paycheck.
A little something getsextracted from that paycheck and
goes into a savings account justso you have something there for
a rainy day.
And it's worked really well forme.
So, yeah, just something tothink about the old adage of,
you know, paying yourself first,right?
That sort of thing.
So that's an interesting onethere as well.
(20:28):
Priorities, right?
So, Are you setting prioritiesto kind of allocate resources
the best you can, right?
That goes into budget and thatsort of thing with yeah,
definitely prioritizing yoursafe your goals there or
prioritizing your spending soyou get creating your own safety
net, et cetera, et cetera.
Credit's a big one too.
You know, it's such anoverlooked thing your credit
(20:50):
score nowadays, but it ispretty, pretty important, right?
Cause again, if you're movinglooking for a new house, Place
to rent, whatever.
All your credit's gonnadefinitely come into play on
that.
So, but again, if you kind oftake the pay cut you know,
again, paying your bills andbeing able to keep up with that
definitely affects your creditin that in that way.
(21:11):
So, but I would say the lastthing in that mindset is, you
know, as far as.
Like tips to prepare yourselffor a pay cut is know yourself,
right?
So you know who you are, you,are you a spender?
Are you a saver?
You know, that sort of thing.
So, you know, kinda don't buckthe system.
Like you, you know what you'regonna do.
(21:32):
You know who you are, you know.
Do you like to, you know, Kyle,you and I have a casino here.
You know, 20 minutes from wherewe live.
Do you like to go in and throw20 bucks in every now and then,
or, you know, or do you like tohit the bar and, you know, pay
for a round of shots at the bar,that sort of thing.
So you, you definitely know whoyou are.
And I think that sort of comesinto play as far as like, can
you really do that from apreparation perspective of,
(21:56):
okay, yep, I'm gonna take thisnew job.
It's gonna suck in the shortterm, but it's gonna be better
in the long term.
Can I do it?
You kind of have an idea of.
Yes I can, or no I can't.
Based on your personality.
Kyle (22:09):
Yeah, those are all pretty good.
I'd say another thing too is tryand, you know, if you know
you're gonna make this jump,potentially try to live like in
those constraints of the newsalary.
Pat (22:25):
Yep.
Good
Kyle (22:25):
know, so, so if you're taking a step back and you're,
you know, you're losing out on20 grand or something like that,
just be like, well, let's see ifwe can, you know, make it work
with the less.
And then, you know, at least youwould kinda have some confidence
there and you know, run somenumbers too.
The math doesn't lie.
Pat (22:42):
Yeah, and for guys like me, math is hard, so I try not to, I
try to stay away from that.
Kyle (22:47):
Yeah,
Pat (22:48):
Only math I can do is sub math.
That's it.
It's the only thing math I.
Kyle (22:51):
Yeah I'm sure there's some calculators online that'll help
you budget and do all that stufftoo.
Pat (22:56):
Absolutely.
Yep.
For sure.
No, it's a good one.
I think those are a couple goodthings, but yeah, we see a lot
of folks coming from differentindustries and trying to say,
okay, you know, try and get intotech and, you know, but I'm used
to the lifestyle or I'm used toa certain paycheck, things of
that nature.
It, you know, the only thing Icould really say is it doesn't
last forever.
Personally, I think I mean it'seasy for me saying this now cuz.
(23:19):
The position that Kyle and I arein personally I think it's worth
it to kind of, again, rip thatbandaid off and, you know, take
it, take that on the chin for ayear or two.
And, but again it depends on howhard you work, right?
So do you get, you know, do youstudy for a cert or for the next
cert?
Are you looking for the next piein the sky as you're working
(23:39):
that help desk job?
Or that first that firstbreak-in job?
Cuz if you do, then that makesthe time.
Shorter.
I think once you get thatexperience, get that cert,
whatever it is, and then thatkind of just, that shortens the
time on how long you have tohave the Band-Aid ripped off,
right?
Because then by that time, ifyou're a real shaker and a
(23:59):
mover, you get a cert, get ayear experience, you apply for
some new jobs and boom, you'realready, you know, you're kind
of back in the general ballparkof where you were when you
ripped the bandaid off.
So, but it definitely dependson, on, you know, what your
goals are and you know, wherethe the prize, you know, the
prize at the end of the rainbowis so definitely suggested that,
(24:21):
and we talk about this all thetime.
It, this, you know, thisindustry never stops.
There's always something to doand the next the next wrong of
the ladder to get to.
Whether that's a cert, whetherthat's a title change, whether
it's truly up the ladder as faras, you know, tech engineer.
Architect, whatever, manager,director, blah blah, blah that
(24:41):
sort of thing.
So that's an interesting one aswell.
So there's some kind of tips onhow to deal with that as far as
what that looks like from a newjob new, into tech, new industry
perspective.
Like I said, it's not gonna suckforever.
It just, it will suck in thebeginning, but it just depends
on how fast you work to getyourself outta that hole.
(25:03):
And not that it's a hole, butyou know, it's a hole to you
cause you took a pay cut.
So just getting that back.
But I kind of wanted to talkabout too, like setting some
expectations cuz I feel like.
I feel like there's a lot ofmisconception out there of folks
that just think tech is justthis green space of money and
(25:24):
people like lighting, you know,lighting money on fire, smoking
it as a cigar cause they justhave it to burn, you know, that
sort of thing.
It's definitely not the case inthe last couple years.
The budgets are what they areand.
You know, salaries are what theyare.
But I feel like this is with theyounger generation too, and I
don't mean to sound like a getoff my lawn an old man when I
(25:44):
say this, but like, there's alot of people out there, again,
especially the youngergeneration, that just thinks
they can get right outta highschool or right outta college
and then jump into like a seniorengineer position pulling down a
hundred K.
Like that just doesn't exist.
I, I don't know.
Do you have thoughts on that,Kyle?
Kyle (26:04):
I, I've definitely seen that before.
Somebody just, I don't know,maybe it's a good thing, you
know, having that confidence.
It's kind of unrealistic though,to just like coming in like, ah,
get, I deserve all the money allfor me, right?
Yeah.
So,
Pat (26:20):
Right.
Yeah.
I feel like that's a lot.
I feel like it's a misconceptionof Yeah, tech is hot.
No, no doubt.
And it's all cyclical, right?
So I think right now we're kindof in the downturn.
But I do expect the tech marketto kind of pop open here in the
next month to couple of months.
Cuz a lot of companies fiscalyear ends in the June or July.
(26:43):
Timeframe right around now.
So like, once they get a newbudget and the new fiscal year
starts, that's when they canhire some folk.
So I do feel like the techsector is gonna pick up here in
the next couple of months whilepeople get their new budgets and
they need, you know, they needmore hands to do more projects
and, you know, more support,that sort of thing.
But again you know, I didn'thave an argument with somebody
(27:06):
last night.
I won't name names or where Ihad the argument on, but you
know, and he came across asvery, to me, it was rude.
And again, I don't want to bethat old guy, you know, get off
my lawn, these young whippersnappers, blah, blah, blah.
I, it just it didn't come acrosswell that, you know, he
(27:29):
basically had it all figured outat.
Like 18 or 19 years old.
And I'm just like, dude, likewhat are you doing?
You know, like he just, youknow, oh well you gotta, you
know, you got a ccna, which isgreat.
Like fine.
The earlier you can get it, thebetter that sets you up for
success.
And I don't even mind theconfidence that he had.
(27:50):
That's not the problem either.
The problem that I had with himis just, he was just like, Well,
yeah.
My first job is gonna be asenior and I'm gonna be ma a
senior, whatever, and I'm gonnabe making, you know, X amount.
I'm just like that.
That doesn't happen.
He's like, well, I'm gonna haveto prove you wrong.
Then I'm like, well, first ofall, young man, like, that's not
where this conversation wasgoing.
(28:12):
Like, you know what I mean?
Like he just had this aura abouthim that I just didn't
appreciate.
And it's, again, it's not his,it's not his go get him attitude
or the gum shoe that he had.
I'm all for it.
All I was saying was nobody.
In their right mind, or I shouldsay no, but it's very difficult.
I shouldn't say nobody.
(28:32):
It's very difficult to come outof school with just assert and
no real life exp no real worldtech experience.
You just don't start at the top.
You don't start at a seniorlevel.
No one is going to give you thekeys to the network castle with
just a ccna.
It doesn't exist.
I dunno.
Call you something on that.
Kyle (28:52):
No, I definitely think you're right with that.
It just, You know, when you'replaying the odds I've never seen
people just jump out with certsand no experience and just start
making money hand over fistslike that.
Like without putting in the timeand getting the the experience
and stuff under the belt.
(29:12):
Could it happen?
Sure.
But I've personally neverexperienced it.
Pat (29:18):
Yep.
Yeah, and I was kind of tellinghim last time, I was like, dude,
like, like, you know, we, I didthis through high school.
I don't know, you started incollege with the IT stuff, Kyle,
is that right?
Kyle (29:29):
no.
Before that I was just kind ofdoing it as like a funny hobby,
but I didn't, you know, I didn'treally have any direction.
Pat (29:36):
I gotcha.
So I was doing this in highschool.
I was doing the Cisco NetworkAcademy, literally at the
devotee in high school.
And so, And then I took it againwith you in college, Kyle.
Like it was literally the sameexact course.
And it took me two or threetimes to like get my head
wrapped around what the hellthis is.
And so, you know, and I waslike, look, I've been studying
this stuff for years.
(29:58):
And then I didn't really get myfirst network engineer title
till 2013 and I didn't get myown keys to the castle.
Like the guy, like if somethingbreaks, you better know how to
fix it cuz there's no one elseuntil 2017.
Like Kyle, you and I went tocollege in 2004.
(30:20):
Like then it's a massive like,Time shift in years to like
really get to sort to the topright, or at least somewhat
mid-level and being called, youknow, having the engineered
title.
And so for this person to comeout and being like, wow, yeah,
I'm gonna, I'm gonna get asenior role and I'm gonna get
(30:42):
the keys of the castle with onlya ccna and no actual real wor
world experience.
It doesn't exist.
At least to me it doesn't exist.
I don't know maybe I'm just anold funny duddy, but no I would
say you gotta tether yourexpectations of what.
Your salary is going to be like,again, you're not gonna walk in
(31:03):
here, especially from a careerchange with no prior real world
experience and earn.
Even at a help desk level,you're like, don't come in here
and be like, oh yeah, you know,70 k like that doesn't really
exist.
Now, again, it depends on whatpart of the country you're in,
and it depends on the companythat you're applying for, right?
(31:23):
So, you know, every company isdifferent, but the averages are
just, they're just not that.
So, you know, just take a notefrom two gray haired.
Experienced gentlemen that aretalking on this podcast.
It just doesn't, it doesn'thappen.
It happens, you know, it doesn'thappen more often than it does.
(31:45):
So just take that for what it'sworth.
But yeah, I just found itinteresting that you know, we
had that little discussion lastnight and he just, he had this
whole thing about how he wasgonna do this, and this, and
just like, man, I, you know, Iwant to set the world off fire
at 19 too.
And it just doesn't play outlike he wanted to, which is, you
know, the whole deal.
So, I don't know if you have anymore thoughts or comments on
(32:07):
that call.
Kyle (32:08):
No, I think you pretty much you covered all of that cuz
same, you know, but what is itfull of piss and vinegar?
Is that, is, that is right.
Pat (32:18):
That's it.
Kyle (32:19):
But you know, I mean, if I knew what I know now, when I was
19.
I think to be a whole lotdifferent.
Pat (32:26):
Oh my God.
Yeah, I'd be I'd be living inthe Beverly Hills baby.
You know what I mean?
Anyway so actually I found thatan interesting Survey out there
that was run by C N B C as oflast year March of last year.
It was an interesting stat.
One third of job switchers tooka pay cut for a better work life
(32:48):
balance.
There you go.
So it happens more often thanyou really think.
People technically do gobackwards.
So, you know, last year orthrough the Covid thing, you had
the, you know, the greatresignation as they dubbed it,
right?
Or, you know, quiet quitters,right?
That was another big term goingaround people doing just enough
(33:09):
to not get fired, but.
Do no more, no less, you know,that kind of thing.
Which I've seen.
It's pretty rampant.
So I've definitely seen it.
But yeah people value their,like you said, call, they're in
mental health and, you know, thework life balance and I totally
get it.
Now.
They've got kids and stuff.
I, you know, I'd be with'em allday if I could, you know, that
kind of thing.
So, you know, with the remotething, and I think it's an
(33:30):
interesting trend that Companiesare having people come back into
the office.
And I think it's an interestingone.
I think it's for differentreasons than what companies are
saying.
It's for you know, they say it'sfor the collab and it's for, you
know, oh, you get to see yourcoworkers and blah, blah, blah.
It's, I don't really care aboutany of that, to be honest with
(33:51):
you.
I think it's, you know, they'vesigned.
Massive long-term buildingleases, and it's an empty space
that, that people aren't workingout of.
So I think they're trying to getas many people as they can back
in an office so they're notpissing money away.
But that's just my opinion.
Who knows?
I don't know.
I don't know what the hell I'mtalking about.
I'm surprised people listened tous at all.
So there you go.
(34:11):
I'm gonna say it right now.
So, But yeah it's an interestingsurvey that they had here.
They basically said about 20% ofworkers said they would take a
10% pay cut if it meant theycould work for themselves or
have better hours.
So, right.
There you go.
Work life balance is huge.
You know, we talk about it allthe time, you know.
You gotta be able to go forwardand you gotta take care of
(34:31):
yourself.
That's the number one thing.
You know, people want to beconnected all the time.
And you know, your work phone'sat your side all the time.
It's like, why?
For what?
To work, you know, to getyourself buried into work and
God forbid something happened toyou, that place will have that
seat filled before your freakingbody's
Kyle (34:50):
All right.
Pat (34:50):
you know what I mean?
So lot.
So, I mean, that's, it's notnegative.
That's just the way it is.
You know, so it's an interestingone there.
You know, it, again, you haveall these decisions to to make
or to consider I should say.
When kind of.
You know, making that transitionand whatnot.
But it's definitely it'sdefinitely a trend in, you know,
(35:12):
sort of taking a step back tomove forward, especially in the
last three years with the Covidthing.
I think it's, I think it's morerampant than maybe even before.
You know, before that somewhatof a normal world.
I think it's a little too risky,but now I think in the Covid
era, Or I should say the postcovid world which I think is
weird too, and this is kind ofoff the topic, but like we talk
(35:33):
about.
Time periods like in thiscountry.
Like, I remember Kyle was like,oh yeah, pre nine 11 or now it's
post, then it was post nine 11and now it's pre Covid and post
covid.
Like we, we had these eventsthat like mark time and like,
it's just so weird.
Anyway, it's just like, oh, likewhat kind of time you talking
about?
This is before Covid or afterCovid.
(35:54):
I'm like gee.
Anyway So, yeah, that's aninteresting one here to say
that, you know, like I said, athird of job switchers took a
pay cut.
So for those of you that arethinking about it, it's not as
uncommon as you may think peopleare doing it.
So, I would say look, especiallyif you're going into tech, I
think the future is very brightas it always usually is.
We're the folks drivinginnovation and.
(36:15):
You know, playing with all thecool stuff.
So, depends on how hard youwork.
It could be a year, it could betwo, it could be five.
It just depends on, you know,kind of how hard you are willing
to work to get there and get tothe next rung and, you know, get
you back on, you know, on parwith your salary before you made
the change.
So that's definitely somethingto to kind of look forward to
there.
So, anything else, Kyle?
Kyle (36:37):
No.
I mean, come play with us, youknow, or get piled into the IT
space.
Pat (36:42):
That's it.
And that's the other thing too.
I kind of mentioned that from anold man perspective, cuz I've
definitely dealt with this froma newbie perspective when I was
a young pup that was, you know,wet behind his ears.
If you will, as the saying goeshere in the States I've
definitely seen old people, or Ishould say old people, older
people, or more seasoned peoplein this industry kind of hang on
(37:05):
to knowledge, just so they feellike they have.
I don't wanna say a purpose, butlike, Hey, they can't fire me if
I'm the only one that knowsthis.
You know, that sort of thing.
Ha.
Have you ever come across thatKyle?
Kyle (37:17):
Yeah.
All the time
Pat (37:19):
Yeah.
Happens all the time.
Kyle (37:21):
yeah, just so they they stay relevant or stay
Pat (37:25):
yeah.
Kyle (37:25):
something.
Pat (37:26):
Yep.
I don't see it as much now, butlike when I was a newbie, man,
that happened all the time.
There was just some moreseasoned folks that basically
would not share knowledge withyou just because they thought.
You were gonna like take theirjob or, you know, if somebody
else knew it outside of them,they weren't needed anymore.
I'm like, dude, like that's noteven close to being correct.
There's, trust me when I saythis, there is enough work for
(37:49):
everybody.
Like it's just, it just is whatit is.
Like this, the whole world runson tech.
There is definitely enough workfor everybody.
So don't let that be a hindranceand yeah, come hang out.
Come.
Like Kyle said, come play withus and we'll be we'll be waiting
and.
Yeah, if that means I could doless and kind of share some of
my workload, man, I'd take 10people tomorrow.
(38:11):
You know what I mean?
I would take that tomorrow ahundred percent.
So yeah, so I, that's kind ofit.
That was a, it was a bit of ashort one just cuz of the topic
and whatnot.
So I think these non-technicaltopics I think do a little
shorter just cuz of the natureof them.
But yeah, we definitely got somesuggestions from some folks as
far as some topics.
So we wanted to throw that outthere.
(38:32):
And this was one of them thatwas, that came up quite a bit.
So, you know, kind of how toprepare or what that looks like
from salary cut perspective justto get into tech that sort of
thing that one came up quite abit.
So, we figured we would do oneon this and yeah, we'll be we'll
be doing the Cisco Live recapone next week when Alex gets
back with us here.
So we figured we'll sneak thisone in and see what everybody
(38:53):
thinks.
So if you got any tips for us orsomething that we missed, or if
you think we're completely fullof shit.
Definitely let us know.
I don't care.
Either way, let us know.
It's cool we're big boys.
We can take it.
So, yeah, let us know.
Hit us up on Twitter or email usor any of that kind of stuff.
We'll definitely yeah, the moreconversation we had, the better
and we'll see see where thingsgo.
(39:13):
So Kyle, anything else before weput the old stamp on this one?
Kyle (39:17):
No, I think that's it.
Pat (39:19):
Cool.
Look at that.
Another successful, or at leastI hope so successful episode.
I'm gonna thank everybody forjoining this week on breaking
Down the Bites.
Again, make sure you visit ourwebsite, breakingbytespod.io
where you can subscribe to theshow on your platform or choice.
Right?
There's links up there for TheApple Podcast, Spotify, Google
(39:39):
Podcast Stitcher.
Or if you just need an RSS feedthat's up there too.
So go pluck what you wish.
Kyle, you gotta gimme a bio manfor the for the website.
I still have Dean's stuff upthere, so I got you and Alex on
a bio, a nice little headshot,and we'll throw you up there so
people can see what your uglymug looks
Kyle (39:56):
Oh my goodness.
Pat (39:58):
I'm in there.
Kyle (39:58):
be be breaking the internet in all the wrong ways.
Pat (40:03):
That's it.
Like, oh, our podcast is superpopular cuz you're so ugly,
Kyle.
Is that what it's it's possible.
Stay tuned folks.
You don't know.
Stranger Things have gone viral.
Let's go while you're in theApple Podcast, cuz that's where
most of you listen.
Throw us a rating, that would beawesome.
Or leave us a review that playswith the algorithms to get more.
(40:25):
More eyes and ears on us, whichis always the goal of this.
So, or, you know, simply tell afriend that works just as well
in today's check driven world.
Word of mouth that, that seemsto be super popular, right?
So, that helps us out too.
Again, social's, LinkedIn,Twitter Facebook Discord server.
It's all out there.
And the show notes come say, hisurvey the.
(40:48):
It's like a, it's just not asatisfaction survey, but it's
basically just a suggestions boxsort of thing.
Just helps us kind of hone inwho you are, you know, that sort
of thing.
So we don't really know who youare, it's just gives us pretty
answers and charts and graphsand stuff like that.
And then we kind of, we aim ourcontent around that.
So if you wanna hear something,let us know.
In the survey, at the bo at thevery last question is is an open
(41:10):
text box.
You can kind of type what youwant and see what.
Yeah, if you want us to do acertain episode on something,
certainly let us know.
We can we can certainly do that.
So again, Kyle, man, it's beenawesome as usual.
Thanks for hanging and everybodyout there.
Thanks for hanging.
We'll see you next week
Kyle (41:25):
So along.
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