May 25, 2023 • 50 mins
In this episode, Kyle and Pat sit down and discuss the things you won't hear about the tech industry. We talk about all the "reality" of the T industry rather than the buzzwords and all the positives you hear. Join us!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Pat (00:01):
Bye.
Hey, everybody.
Welcome back to this week'sedition of breaking down the
bites as usual.
I'll be your host, Pat.
You can find me on Twitter atlayer eight packet.
That's the number eight.
You can find Kyle on Twitter atDanis 256.
You can find the show on Twitterat breaking bites pod.
We're pretty active on Twitter.
(00:21):
So come say hello.
And as always.
Don't forget if you like theshow subscribe, subscribe on
your favorite streaming platformof choice.
So we are back again this week.
No, Alex, just Kyle and I, thedynamic duo, not the three
Musketeers, but the dynamic duo.
(00:43):
Alex is off in a way.
I think his mom is visiting himthis week out there in sunny
SoCal.
So he's spending some time withthe fam.
So shout out to Alex and thefam.
So, we'll be back next week fora special episode before we ship
out to Cisco, Cisco live.
So that's going to be cool.
So Kyle, what's up, man?
How you doing?
Kyle (01:03):
Yeah, not too bad.
How about yourself?
Pat (01:05):
Living that dream, my friend.
As you can kind of tell, I don'tknow if it comes across, but
I've had like a hoarse voice foralmost two weeks now.
Like, since we got back from thebeach and the pollen and the
allergies in this area is justredonkulously high.
I've had like a dry cough andthis raspy sort of voice for
like, tomorrow it'll be twoweeks.
So I'm like any day now, thiscough and just general stuffy
(01:29):
allergy nonsense can go away.
So I'm looking forward to that.
So are you an allergy guy Kyle?
Did you get allergies?
Kyle (01:40):
Sometimes.
Pat (01:41):
Yeah.
Kyle (01:42):
It's,
Pat (01:42):
usually not a big allergy guy.
Kyle (01:44):
yeah.
Although, I have heard that thatkind of hoarseness thing has
been going around.
Pat (01:48):
Yeah, I don't know what the deal is.
We came back from the beach and,like, I was fine at the beach,
just had nice ocean air and allof a sudden you get back here in
the valley and you're like, yourface is like the size of a
balloon and you're like, justallergies everywhere.
So, ugh, it's brutal.
So I apologize if I sound alittle hoarse and I'm, doing the
(02:09):
best to trudge on, but the showmust go on, right?
That's the way it's the way itgoes.
So, yeah, it's been real nicehere weather wise.
So getting out, but I can'tbelieve tomorrow is Monday
already.
And we're it's just crazy yearsflying by the daughter is now
four years old.
She turned four last Sunday.
So a week from.
A week from today, she, on the14th, she's four years older
(02:31):
already.
I'm like, you need to stopgrowing up so goddamned quickly.
This is insanity.
It's like, geez, the older youget means the older I get.
And I'm not okay with that.
So,
Kyle (02:41):
be taking the car key soon.
Pat (02:43):
And oh, don't, oh, don't even say that.
That's just crazy.
Or, maybe by the time she'sdriving, there'll be self
driving cars, and we'll justhave to get in and George Jetson
it.
It'd be like, take me to thegrocery store.
Doot, whatever.
So that was all good.
So, we wanted to take this timeor this week to sort of talk
(03:05):
about some of the downsides ofit, if you will, because
everybody thinks that, it isgreat field to get in.
And, there's this endlessendless work and blah, blah,
blah.
And believe me, there is, it's,it, we, Kyle and I still think.
It's a great field to get intothat's what we're saying, but we
(03:25):
normally always focus on thepositive here.
And so this week we're going todo a little bit of a negative,
but just kind of some realisticthings that Kyle and I have seen
in the industry of maybe thatmight turn some people off and,
Hey, that's just.
You're not cut out for this,right?
That sort of thing.
So, I want to talk about thatthis week and kind of get your
thoughts on a Kyle and see wherewe land, but there are a few
(03:48):
things that I kind of thought offor this episode to kind of,
warn folks about if they'rejust, if they're not used to, if
they're not in this industry nowand what kind of, what they can
kind of expect from therealistic side of things outside
of the good pay and themulticolored beanbag chairs and
the offices that you sit at.
Yeah, that kind of thing.
There, there are some downsidesto it.
So I don't know, Kyle, you haveany opening thoughts on that
(04:09):
topic?
Kyle (04:10):
I would say I've seen a few people, especially when I
was still working at the helpdesk and we get interns come in
and they'd get into the it fieldand it's like, all right, why
are you here?
Like, what's the driving forcethat's making you do it?
And it was like money.
And it's like, okay, well, doyou have any interest or passion
(04:32):
for technology?
And it's like.
No, I've never even opened acomputer, like looked inside of
it.
And like, you kind of have tohave that drive and the passion
to even want to do it in thefirst place.
I mean, like money's nice.
That's, it's a good power adkind of thing like that and
freedom and whatnot, but.
If you don't even like tech,it's probably not the first
(04:54):
choice you should go to.
Pat (04:56):
Yeah.
Yeah, no, I agree.
I think that's a big one.
I think that's a bigmisconception that you started
in IT and you're all of a suddenat six figures right out the
gate and that doesn't.
That doesn't happen.
So sorry to burst anyone'sbubble out there, but that just
doesn't work that way.
And, the other commonmisconception I see is that,
everybody thinks they start atthe top, right?
(05:16):
So that's not going to happeneither.
So you're going to have to cutyour teeth on a help desk
position somewhere.
You're going to have to cut yourteeth on, call center of some
sort and whether that's like Isaid, a more traditional help
desk or or just, a call center.
I mean, I started a call centerin a cable company, so
supporting cable modems when thebroadband boom was going on back
(05:37):
in the early 2000s.
So, you learn various skills atthat particular, position as
well.
It's sort of how to talk topeople, how to massage them to
get, to do what you want them todo without making them feel
stupid and, etc.
So, at one point we weresupporting cable modems.
We were supporting the highdefinition, set top boxes.
And like, we did it all.
(05:58):
And, there was multiple dayswhere I had to teach, grandma
how to put batteries in aremote.
So it humbles you like stupidquick, so you just, you don't
start out at the top.
And I think that's amisconception that a lot of
people think that, Oh yeah, I'mgoing to, just cause you like
something, you're strivingtowards it.
Doesn't mean you're going to endup doing it.
Right out of the gate when youfirst walk in the door.
(06:20):
So, that, that's a big one aswell.
So, I would also say if youdon't like change, I don't think
it is for you, right?
Because it moves at such arapid, crazy pace, especially in
today's world.
It's way faster than like, evenKyle, when you and I were in
(06:42):
college together, it just seemsto move way faster.
Just.
Yeah.
More than even 10 years ago.
Like it's just insane.
Cause it moved quick when wewere there, but like, it is like
lightspeed now it's just like,Holy Jesus.
I can't, I can't keep up withall this stuff.
So, so it's constantly changing.
If you don't like change it'sjust not for you.
(07:02):
Again, it just moves incrediblyquick and you have to be
prepared for that constantchange.
The only thing that's stagnantis the change.
Kyle (07:11):
Isn't that right?
Pat (07:11):
It's just, it's the weirdest thing, but you know,
just as one technology, you'restarting to get it in the door
and implement it.
Then you're ripping it out foranother one because it just life
cycles and things of thatnature.
It just doesn't, it just movesso freaking quick.
I can't.
Explain it how that goes.
Any thoughts on that from yourNAC days?
Kyle (07:32):
Yeah.
I mean, it's, now there's alwayssomething that's the newest and
the best and terms and, acronymsthat are flying all over the
place that you gotta stay on topand be able to, know what's
going on.
Because if not...
Like you said, if you don't stayrelevant and stuff, you just get
left behind.
Pat (07:49):
Yeah.
You're either moving forward oryou're literally falling behind.
There is no standing still.
So I would say that for sure.
I would also say that.
You have to, and I could speakfrom this from experience, maybe
Kyle, not you so much, but youhave to change you often have to
change companies or full blownindustries, right?
(08:12):
Staying in it, but moving thecompanies that you move to are
in different industries ordifferent verticals.
You cut, you have to change inorder to either a grow your
skills and be your career or seeyour paycheck or any combination
of those three, right?
So, especially from what I'veseen, people just don't get
(08:36):
promoted as much as I thought.
They might, they, they wouldhave, right.
For whatever reason, thesecompanies just seem to want to
bring in outside help or Ishould say outside management's
which I can kind of see.
But I don't think they're doingit for the right.
(08:56):
Reasons.
And I'll give you an example.
When you bring it outside help,you bring in fresh eyes, right?
You bring in fresh perspectiveof saying, okay, somebody, they
did this at this company.
It might work well here.
And since I'm the boss.
What I say goes right or,carries more weight than,
(09:18):
you're, people underneath you orpeople that are reporting to
you.
So that being said, it's fresheyes, you're not having the same
people swim in the same soup, ifyou will, right?
Because once you get used to aplace, you become part of that
Right.
So like, for example, if youwalk into a house and they're
cooking chicken noodle, andyou're like, Oh, that really
(09:40):
smells pretty good.
But you sit there for a halfhour.
You don't smell the chickennoodle anymore.
Cause you're used to it.
That kind of thing.
So I feel like that bringing infresh perspectives that has a
fresh set of eyes on things.
The other part of that is Idon't think they do that.
I don't think they realize, or Ishould say, that's not the
(10:01):
reason they're bringing peoplein.
Like they're, the business oftendoesn't understand what it does
for them and vice.
Versa, I guess.
So I just think they're, theybring in fresh blood because
they don't think the people thatthey have are going to be good
(10:24):
in that new position.
It's not because it's fresheyes.
They don't think like that.
It's, there's no, that train ofthought doesn't exist within
that.
Era, I should say, or withinthat thought bubble.
I wish it did.
Right.
So, but yeah, that's not whythey're bringing in new people,
not because they need fresh eyesor they think they need fresh
eyes most of the time.
(10:45):
It's because they look at theroster and say, look, I don't
really see.
Anybody that could really fillthis position.
Right.
So that's a big one.
I do think more peopleinternally need a chance.
But until that sort of mindsetchanges from the business side,
it's just, it's not going tohappen.
(11:06):
And I don't know what it takesto make that happen.
And that's why people movearound so much to say, look, I'm
worth more than this.
I'm going to try to go and,apply for new places.
And that job is going to give methat next position, that manager
or that senior title or whateveryou're kind of striving towards.
So that's why people move aroundso much.
And, we've had our good friend,Harry was on a few weeks back
(11:29):
and.
It used to be a thing where, jobhopping was looked at as like a
negative.
I go, let's go.
This guy's only been here.
This guy has only been here, ayear.
And then he's leaving.
Or this one's here seven monthsand he's leaving.
Well, if you don't ask thosereasons, it's usually people
don't leave jobs.
They leave bosses.
(11:51):
That's the number one thing.
They just people.
People generally tend to liketheir jobs and that's a general
statement.
They don't leave jobs or whatthey're doing day to day.
They don't leave theircoworkers, they leave
management.
That's the whole, that's theoverwhelming reason percentage
(12:12):
wise.
If you look at the data, whypeople need.
A new job, they can't deal withtheir managers or, like you
said, you're a mid level networkguy at one place and the next
job is looking for a senior guyand that's more money.
It's a different title and.
That appeals to people.
So just what it is.
(12:34):
So don't expect to be promoted.
I want to say right away.
I mean, yeah, it does happen.
Don't get me wrong.
You may go to team lead or youmay go to, some senior level
making that bump from eitherteam lead or senior to a
management position, it doesn'talways happen because they
(12:55):
always bring in the outsiders.
That's just the way thebusiness.
Works for whatever the reasonsmay be.
So I'll throw that out there.
Any thoughts on that Kyle?
Kyle (13:05):
No, I would definitely say that I've seen.
Pretty much exactly what you'resaying, where it's just like not
for the right reasons, but justbringing in new blood and not
promoting within kind of deallike that.
Pat (13:19):
Right.
Yeah.
And that goes back to thecompany culture and people want
to sit there and hang their hatson our culture is great.
Our culture is great.
Well, your turnover doesn't lookthat great either.
Why is that?
That kind of thing.
There's a direct correlationthere, so that I find that
interesting.
So just a word to the wise thereas well.
The other thing I wanted tomention and this depends, Kyle
(13:42):
and I living outside ofPhiladelphia, or I would say
outside we're about an hour toan hour and a half North,
depending on traffic.
That being said, the betterpaying jobs and there's more
jobs in a city, in a largercity.
Right.
So, for a good five years, Isplit two and a half years at
(14:02):
two companies driving down tothe suburbs of Philly and the
pay was much better.
Right.
So where we live we're in a biglike shipping warehouse.
Area of the country, right?
Cause we're right in between NewYork City and Philly.
So everybody and their motherhas warehouses here.
So there's not a whole lot of itjobs here in where we live in
(14:23):
the valley it's outside of King,it's outside of Philly, right.
It's King of Prussia.
It's that whole route.
4 22 corridor.
Collegeville, Phoenixville allthat corridor that, comes
through and leads into Phillyall the way down Route 76 and,
Radnor and, all those outside ofPhilly come and even in Philly
too.
(14:43):
And Philly's a big one.
Like people go literally to thecenter city of Philly.
For jobs, right?
For the tech stuff.
So I would say that, if you'renot a big fan of the big cities
and all that entails with that,right?
The commute to get there, the ifyou're living in a big city or
more often, is the the cost ofliving is higher, right?
Apartments are more and They'rehousing is more, et cetera.
(15:06):
Foods were right.
You look at the big, you look atthe big tech places.
Where are they?
They're in massive cities,right?
The San Frans of the world, theNew York's, the Silicon Valley's
right there.
They're all in major cities.
Austin, Texas, Dallas.
That's a big tech hub in thelast couple of years.
That's been, that's boomed,right?
So they're all in major cities.
(15:26):
So, again, if you're not a cityperson or, You find that hard to
juggle, that, that could be abig drawback into getting into
the it world.
That's just what it is.
Any thoughts on that, Kyle?
Kyle (15:39):
Yeah, I mean, definitely some flexibility for travel,
especially when you're firstbeginning to, that might just
kind of come with the territoryto get your foot in the door.
Pat (15:50):
Yeah, for sure.
Absolutely.
I had to.
So yeah it's just one of thosethings where it just depends on
where you're at.
And today in the remote quasiworld that we live in, that may
not be as big of an issue, butin the last couple of years that
they're pulling people back intoan office and hey, you had a
(16:11):
full, fully remote job for twoyears and now you got to go to,
now you got to go to a majorcity and, traffic and travel All
that kind of stuff that plays amassive part in in people's
decisions to get.
The next one I'm about to say,it should have been number one
for me, but I gave it a couplebullet points down because I
(16:31):
couldn't get this hyped up thisearly in the episode.
I just couldn't like, I wouldjust set the whole tone for the
entire episode.
I'm going to say this right now.
And believe me, when I say this,it is a.
Absolutely a thankless job.
No one gives a flying F about ituntil it doesn't work.
(16:59):
I'm telling you right now andthe higher you go in your
position, the more eyes are onyou to basically not have shit
break.
Kyle (17:09):
Mm
Pat (17:10):
But you know, for a fact, it is going to break because
it's tech, it's technology.
It happens.
These things are literallyelectronics.
It happens, right?
So we don't have a magic wand.
We don't have an easy button.
I'll allow the staplescommercials from a few years
ago.
Like this shit happens all thetime.
(17:32):
And it is a thankless job, andI'm sure other jobs are
thankless.
It seems like that's the worldwe live in nowadays, right?
Just, but it's literally, whathave you done for me lately?
And you're only as good as yourlast fuck up.
That's it.
That's literally it.
It drives me crazy.
(17:52):
And it's like, listen, youdidn't give a shit about the 10
projects that went absolutelysmooth that made efficiencies go
through the roof and saved youmoney in the longterm.
You didn't give a shit aboutthose, but the one time on a
Sunday where you couldn't get towhatever or like a, an ISP took
a dump.
That's something that's outside,completely outside of your
(18:13):
control.
Now you're going to give me shitabout it.
Like slow your horses.
Like that's just, Oh, it drivesme crazy.
Drives me bananas.
Talk about that, Kyle, because Iknow you have a story.
Kyle (18:25):
Yeah.
I mean, even just getting thestuff that you need to be able
to do your job properly isalways, like, Hey, I'd like to
get this switch and.
We should get redundant powersupplies for it.
So if one fails, you have theother one.
Well, do you really need to?
Why, like, just get one.
It's, you save eight, eight,nine hundred bucks or something.
(18:47):
You're like no, but then if itfails.
The whole thing falls, andyou're like, well it's brand
new, it shouldn't fail, andyou're like, but it's, it can,
like,
Pat (18:57):
Oh,
Kyle (18:58):
and you just,
Pat (18:58):
makes my head hurt.
It makes my head hurt.
And this is why I did this inthe 20 minute mark
Kyle (19:04):
right, right,
Pat (19:05):
because if we would have started out of this, if we would
have started out with thistopic, we would have been guns
blazing and we would have beenbitching the whole episode.
God damn it.
Kyle (19:14):
but it's definitely, and those, yeah, when something goes
wrong, that mark always juststays there, like.
Hey, remember that time?
Remember that time you fuckedup, like, five years ago, and
you're like,
Pat (19:25):
years ago
Kyle (19:26):
Wasn't even my fault! And you're like,
Pat (19:29):
4 47 in the afternoon, I couldn't get my, I couldn't get
Excel to open.
And the other thing too is like,I don't deal with this a whole
lot now, but I used to, butlike, if you have a change
that's planned and it actuallyaffects the end user and you
send emails months in advance.
(19:52):
Multiple emails for like a monthat a time.
I guarantee you it's all whitenoise.
It goes right in the frickingtrashcan of these email boxes.
And the second you change it,they got the nerve to go, why'd
you change it?
I wasn't notified.
Oh my God.
I have like, I was, I'm ready tostrangle people at that point.
I'm like, I have seven emailsthat I sent you over the last
(20:16):
month and a half saying thatthis was your D day.
Now all of a sudden we're at Dday and I pushed the button and
now you're going to be like.
You didn't notify me.
Why is this changing?
I'm not right.
I'm not here to write a thesislike come on This isn't that
difficult.
Kyle (20:32):
Guilty till proven innocent, right?
Then the case of like, Well,Sandra, if you look back at 337
on, Friday afternoon, I sent youthis.
Email.
Yeah.
Right.
Pat (20:45):
And I have a read receipt from you so I know you read it
Don't lie to me sandra.
Kyle (20:50):
Right.
Pat (20:51):
Oh, it just drives me crazy No, to go back to your point
with, with the switch and thepattern, the dual power supply,
it's like you have to explainthese things to biz to the
business in money terms, right?
So if that switch or if thatpower supply for that switch is
an extra 900, right?
If something goes, if thatswitch goes down, are you losing
(21:13):
more than 900 of business?
Due to that switch being out, ifthe answer is yes, get the
second power supply.
That's the answer.
Like
Kyle (21:25):
JUSTIN
Pat (21:26):
just, Oh, and the other thing too, is like, and that
sort of bleeds into the, to,what we're, another topic here,
but like, you have to learn todo more with less.
Kyle (21:39):
Always.
Pat (21:40):
Always you're doing more with less.
Like you're we're constantlybitched at about budget.
It is all about budget.
How much, how little can wespend and yet how fast can we
go?
Like that is literally thewhole.
Like crux of the last few jobsthat I've had, when I ask, what
(22:04):
do you want?
And I put things on paper that Ihave to sit there and justify
why the things I want cost somuch.
And it's like, okay, you do thisor you do this, or you want to
get into that space.
You can't get into that spaceuntil you have this or this
redundancy or this architectureor whatever the case may be.
(22:25):
And then they always cutsomething always.
It's.
It's ripped the shreds and thenthey go do it again.
And so I do it again and I swearto God, this happens more times
than often, more times than not.
We get a year, maybe eightmonths to a year down the road
(22:45):
and we needed that somethingthat was axed from the budget.
And they go, why can't we dothis?
Cause you axed it from my budgetliterally eight months ago when
I had a decent business case onthe freaking table.
Well, what can we do now to getaround it?
Stop timeout, just stop.
Like the amount of times that Ihave made the Ferrari go on a
(23:15):
clown car budget is justastonishing to me.
Like you just have to learn todo more with less.
Cause it's, at the end of theday, you come down, it is a
number, right?
They're just some places arebetter than others.
I've worked at some really goodplaces.
I've worked in some really badplaces.
It like, It is just a necessaryevil, right?
(23:38):
It they have to pay for itbecause they have to.
If they didn't, if they didn'thave to, they wouldn't, but they
need it as an everyday, it'sbuilt in business now, so they
throw just enough money at it tokeep it going.
Not necessarily keep it running.
Right.
It just keeps it going, and thenyou're expected to make the
(23:59):
Ferrari car.
Out of Hugo parts, that kind ofthing.
It's just, it drives me crazy.
So yes, learn to do more.
With less because everywhere islike that and that's the beauty
of a good manager if you can putout Your ideologies and say look
I think we should do this andthis for this year Then the
(24:20):
manager says okay Then he takesit above to his people Who are
often the money people, right?
To sign the checks and say, weneed this because this ties into
this business objective, andthis business objective.
But I haven't met a lot of thosepeople.
Those managers just basicallysay, Hey, here it is.
And it's going to cost us amillion.
(24:41):
And they go, why?
And the manager goes, Oh, it'sjust what stuff costs.
And then they go, no, if you'renot going to give me a reason
for it, I'm going to ask it.
And there we go.
You get taxed and we stumblealong for the next, the next
year until the budget cyclecomes down.
The only thing I would say iswhatever budget you do get,
spend every penny of it or closeto.
Kyle (25:01):
JUSTIN
Pat (25:02):
penny of it because I guarantee you when it comes
around again for budget timenext year They're gonna look at
it and go we gave you x amountof money.
You didn't spend all of it Sowe're not giving you that we're
not giving you as much this yearBecause you did with less last
year And here you thought youwere a good samaritan saving the
company money not spending allyour budget there you are.
You shot yourself in the fuckingfoot Oh, it happens all the
(25:26):
time.
Kyle (25:27):
And you got the triangle, right, the good, fast, and
cheap?
ALICE
Pat (25:36):
you can only have two of the three Yeah, it could be good
and fast, but it won't be cheap.
It could be good and cheap andit won't be fast.
Oh, yeah it's, yeah, then that'sthat stuff stresses.
It used to stress me.
It doesn't anymore.
I don't care.
I mean, I'm at a point where Imean, I care, but like, It used
(25:57):
to really stress me out.
I'd be like, why doesn't thebusiness go for this?
And like, that was more of myown head to being like, I know
in my own head, what I'm tryingto say.
I have a terrible time flippingthat into a business case and
under, and having the businessunderstand why it's good for the
business.
In my head, it's all technicaland I'm like yeah, but I live in
(26:20):
this world.
That's the world I live in.
They don't live in my world.
So I have a hard time taking aout of my head and getting it to
be in the biz and the way thebusiness is going to be like,
yeah, that makes sense.
Let's do that.
That's a good investment.
Yeah, that kind of thing.
So, I would say that's a bigone.
Just learn to do more with less.
And I've seen it multiple timesthat they're so short sighted
(26:45):
and then it eventually comesaround and they go, why can't we
do this?
Well, you didn't give me moneyfor it.
When I asked for it in thebudget, you had to ask something
and that's what it was.
And they go, okay.
Or they say, oh, let's try to doit.
Okay, pony up the money andwe'll do it.
But like there's just so muchshort sightedness when it comes
to that It just it drives youcrazy.
(27:08):
So be prepared for that fightbecause it happens constantly.
Here's the other thing that Idon't Necessarily appreciate it.
Maybe it's because I'm in thenetwork side and we're literally
the plumbers of the it world.
There's two things, one thing.
And again you'll find this veryquick and it burns a lot of
(27:30):
people out.
Everyone's lack of planning.
Is an emergency on your parthappens all the time.
People, I don't know what it is.
They just, whether they'regetting kicked at from a client,
like a, a third party vendor ora client and they get it last
(27:53):
minute.
And then they turn around andgive it to us last minute, or
oh, I forgot to do something.
And now I have a deadline andnow they kick it over to you.
But I cannot tell you how manytimes on a Friday afternoon
somebody comes to me and says,oh, I need this done either by
today or Monday.
(28:15):
And it's a fire.
Why is it a fire?
Why do I only have less than 24hours to turn something around?
Because.
You didn't do your due diligenceor you didn't plan on your port
again.
And yeah, your lack of planningis not an emergency on my part.
(28:36):
I have protocols and stuff I gotto follow too.
Like why am I expected to throwmy protocols and whatnot out the
window?
Just to.
Just to cover up your mess.
It happens all the time and itdrives me crazy.
So, speak.
Ah, just, ah, it drives me, ah,drives me nuts.
Kyle (28:56):
was gonna say, back to some of the, I guess, customer
service or helpdesk or anythinglike that,
Pat (29:02):
Yeah.
Kyle (29:03):
expect to be lied to.
Constantly.
Oh,
Pat (29:07):
the time.
Kyle (29:08):
hey, can you restart your computer?
Oh, I already did that, like,you're full of shit, you did
not, you absolutely,
Pat (29:13):
uptime says seven days and twelve hours.
You're like, what?
Oh, you restarted, huh?
What, last week?
Ah.
Kyle (29:20):
And, like, none of the end users, half the time their own
problems are self inflicted.
They don't want to incriminatethemselves, so they'll just,
nah, I don't know what happened,just like, I didn't spill my
java smoothie thing on thekeyboard, and like,
Pat (29:33):
Yep.
Kyle (29:35):
So that's, you're gonna have to play detective, turn on
your BS meter, and, just, yeah.
It's, it gets infuriating, andthen you get to the bottom, and
you're like...
Once you catch them, theynormally fess up to it.
Except, some people do doubledown, but normally they fess up,
and you're like, why wouldn'tyou just tell me that from the
(29:55):
get go?
We could've saved each other,like, two hours.
JUSTIN
Pat (29:59):
yeah, this call could have been ten minutes, not an hour
and ten minutes.
Like, Jesus.
Ah, yeah.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
We used to call that a pebcacproblem exists between keyboard
and share.
That's always a good one.
It's more acronyms for you folksout there.
But yeah, no, that's a good one.
What I used to do when I workedat the cable company is like,
like we had so many issues inthe field and not enough texts
(30:22):
to go out and like, actuallylike fix this stuff.
So like people would be waitinglike four or five days to get a
tech out.
And get internet going aroundlike it was bad and so like our
supervisors voicemails were justfull of just angry people just
flipping the fuck out like youmean to tell me I can't and like
(30:45):
it was so funny because likethey had this thing where like
oh you know.
Like they'd throw it out to tryto get somebody earlier.
They'd be like, Oh, I run abusiness from this, from my
home.
And like, and my first questionwas, Oh, do you have a business
account?
And they would go no, that kindof thing.
Like, exactly.
If you don't have a businessaccount, then.
Business accounts are same dayservice, right?
(31:06):
We'd have somebody out theresame day, but you're also paying
that premium.
You know what I mean?
The premium money for the thingthat like people used to get
around, try to get around thatall the time.
Like, Oh, like, I'm running abusiness.
Why did I do, can you getsomebody out here faster?
Blah, blah, blah.
And like, so if I knew there wasa problem.
And I could sense it like Icould see the problem in the
first couple of minutes as I'mlike, talking to them on the
(31:29):
phone.
Cause like I spent seven yearsthere.
So I was pretty quick.
Right.
Like I, there wasn't a whole lotof issues like that.
It could be, there was only afinite amount of problems that
you could have with your cableloader.
Right.
It's not, you're not solvingworld peace or curing cancer,
but but I can have them unscrewthe coax from the back of the
modem.
Just unscrew that for a second.
(31:50):
I'm going to run a few tests onthis end and I'll just put you
on hold and I'll be right back.
I would just put them on hold,wait for a few minutes, go get,
grab a cup of coffee or water orsomething.
Because like once it'sdisconnected from the coax, I
had no.
You know what I mean?
Like it was already down.
So I wasn't doing any voodoomagic behind the scenes or
whatever.
So like, I come back like, okay,I'm done.
(32:10):
I'm all done.
You can screw it back in, maybeseven out of eight times out of
10.
That was, that would fix it.
Right.
That would be just enough to getit back online.
either now.
It was good, like your actualsignals from the cable modem
side were good.
It just needed, it neededwhether that pin was bent on the
(32:31):
inside of the coax or sometimesthe shield of the actual coax
gets all goofy and whatnot.
Just that unscrewing unscrewlike worked wonders or it was
just enough to get that modemback online where I could
actually see like the actualsignals and they were all outta
whack.
And then that would give meenough time to schedule a tech.
For those like three or fourdays, at least I had them
(32:51):
online, but the tech would bethere in three or four days,
actually look at the actualissue and see if you can adjust
the signal.
But like you learn those quips,you learn that stuff and it
helped us level of like, youlearn what to do with people
that are just.
Not happy because nobody callsit with everything working fine,
right?
Nobody calls him like nobody,nobody calls me up and says,
(33:12):
yeah, your shit's working realgood.
Kyle (33:14):
LAUGH JUSTIN
Pat (33:15):
Nobody does that.
They call you because somethingis amiss.
Something is wrong.
So they're already hot and heavyby the time they get on the
phone with you.
So like, man I've, learning totalk to people in that aspect in
that.
Setting was just so key for meto kind of catapult me into the
you know into the next rung orladder or whatnot, but yeah
(33:37):
expect to be lied to because itdoes happen quite a bit It's
just that's just the way of theworld again people try to cover
it up or whatever They don'twant to they don't want to seem
stupid whatever blah blah blahjust be like You're not the
first person to lie to me, like,just tell me the truth and we'll
get on with our day.
It's not that difficult of aconcept.
So crazy.
(33:58):
Did you have any others?
Kyle (33:59):
All right.
So I'm sure anybody that's everdone any it work, especially you
can probably
Pat (34:09):
Oh god.
Kyle (34:10):
everyone expects you to fix.
Every fucking electronic productin their house, for free, when
they want it, on their time,like, they're calling you,
asking you questions, like, ifyou were a doctor, they wouldn't
be like, well, can you just comeover, do surgery, like, no,
that's not okay, you're an ITguy, like.
You're an A.
(34:31):
V.
guy, you're an I.
T.
guy, you're a networking guy,you're a Wi Fi guy, like, how do
I set up my cable top box?
You're like, what?
That's not even what I do.
Pat (34:40):
Anything that plugs into an electrical outlet, you're on the
hook for.
It's so bad.
Especially that friends andfamily
Kyle (34:49):
ah,
Pat (34:50):
Oh, the family gets a hold of you?
Forget it.
Forget it.
I haven't had that a lot in thelast couple of years, but like
when I first started out,Everybody hit me up.
Hey, can you do this?
Or hey, I got a this or like theworst was like, hey I got a new
Mac.
Can you come and help me set itup?
I'm like, I don't deal with thatvoodoo magic the fuck out of
(35:11):
here.
I Gotta hit like nothing againstMax, but there's just not for
me.
That's like, yeah, you'll findthat most IT people I just said
well, maybe not In today'sworld, but like when you and I
were in college and stuff, wewouldn't touch Macs to save our
souls.
Like that's just like if theysaid I'll give you a million
dollars to fix this Mac issue belike nah, not for me, bro Like
(35:33):
it's just we just didn't touchhim now It seems like every cool
cat on the corner has a Mac butlike, you know They just weren't
that they weren't that in theyweren't that popular when you or
I were kind of coming up Theywere basically if you were not A
graphics designer or some sortof web design or, you know what
I mean?
Like a Photoshop, high art, thatkind of art student, you didn't
(35:54):
have a Mac.
That's the only thing they weregood for was editing, like
audio, like video and, the artsystuff like outside of that.
Like they just weren't a thing.
So yeah, no, I agree with that.
It's just yeah Like once peopleknow you're an IT guy, you
literally fix everything likeoh, my toast is burning too dark
(36:16):
Can you come and help me fix it?
Yeah, let's Stick a fork inthere.
See what happens
Kyle (36:21):
right.
Pat (36:22):
Yeah, this is just it's crazy.
I get it.
Nope.
And like, I belong to a Facebookgroup or two of like, tech IT
centered groups and stuff.
Like, there's some places outthere that literally have IT.
Like responsible for everythingthat plugs into a wall and
you're like what?
(36:44):
That's like that's insane.
That's I'm like, yeah, that'sjust not that's not me.
Like I Like oh, yeah, my youknow the dehumidifier that's
under Rose's desk.
It's really getting hot Can yougo look at that?
You're like no Like tell herdon't plug it sorry, But Yeah,
(37:06):
it's just crazy.
This is crazy.
What else?
So sort of, and this is the lastone for me.
I don't know, Kyle, if you haveany, if you have any more, but
the, I mean, all of the thingsthat we just mentioned, to be
honest with you, I have todouble check this, don't quote
me on this, but the amount ofhigh turnover that it has,
(37:31):
because it just stresses so manypeople out.
The various reasons that we justmentioned, I think it's higher
than actual retail and retail isretail choose through people.
Like it's nobody's business.
It's just so crazy.
But it has a very high turnoverfor those particular reasons.
(37:54):
And it's just, the.
The whole moving, moving fastchange and, changing companies
and expected to do more withless, right?
That's a big one.
I just, so many people just getburned out on that.
It's like, do this, and this,but I won't give you the
resources for it.
Well, then it ain't thatimportant to you, bro.
(38:14):
We're just not the, thethankless job, right.
Everybody always cares, whenyour last fuck up was, nobody
ever says nice job on those 10previous projects that went
smooth as silk, right.
That kind of thing.
It's, it just leads to highturnover.
It's burnout city.
People just, it chews throughpeople, especially now that it's
so integrated in today's world.
(38:36):
And.
The business Like it's such anintegral part of the business.
Just, it just burns people out.
Right.
You just, you start to getchippy with people and, you're
just not a, you become not apeople person, that sort of
thing.
So, it's a very high turnover inthat, in that aspect of it.
(38:57):
So, just to, just a couple ofthings that just kind of thought
off the top of my head, like,you just.
You definitely need patience inthis industry.
Like it's definitely a virtue.
Like it's just, you just, yeah,that's kind of going back to
what you said, Kyle, with thewhole help desk thing.
And, oh yeah, I rebooted.
Huh.
Sure.
That kind of thing.
The patience is a big one,right?
(39:17):
You just.
You get the same people makingthe same mistakes over and over.
And it's just like, how manytimes do I have to write this
down?
That kind of thing.
Continuing education.
You want to continue youreducation, right?
This is a constant field ofeducation and you're going to be
studying until you're fuckingretiring.
Like our good buddy, Mike Kelly,just, he literally just got his
(39:38):
master's degree from Kutztown,literally.
Like a week ago, and he's in hismid fifties, right?
And they're like, he's like,he's got like nine years to
retire.
I'm like, yeah, I did, so, he'sdoing it and he's, doing the
the, the certs and the master'sdegree and stuff like that.
So education is another big one.
If you don't want to workoutside nine to five IT's not
(39:59):
cut out for you.
Because nobody does anymaintenance in the middle of the
day, right?
It's just, it's all aboutmitigating risk and downtime,
right?
That's the thing too, right?
Or if you're easily frustratedor you give up quickly, right?
It's just, it's the...
It's not necessarily the techskills that you're going to have
a problem with.
It's the other stuff.
It's the EQ versus the IQ,right?
(40:21):
That kind of thing.
So, and you're going to have tobe able to multitask as well.
Right.
So, working on multiple projectsat once or multiple tickets at
once.
Right.
So you're always trying to,people are always trying to get
something from you, whetherthat's your time, whether that's
your knowledge, whatever, likepeople turn to you for a reason.
And if you're going to, Moretimes than one or more chances
(40:42):
than not, you're gonna have morethan one person coming to you at
a time.
So you have to learn to balancethat, that high pressure.
You can't please everybody, butyou're gonna have to set some
sort of boundary and multitask.
As many things as you can,right?
It's just what it is.
That kind of thing.
So, just kind of again, pros andcons.
(41:05):
To be honest with you, I thinkthere's more pros and there is
cons and we definitely want totouch on the cons, there are
more pros.
I still think this is a greatindustry to get into, but, a lot
of this stuff isn't talked aboutwhen people are changing jobs
or, coming up out of college andwhatnot.
Don't understand the real worldaspect of this, right?
Because all you hear about techis, you're.
(41:26):
Your certifications here, cloudthis, security this, and this is
a great field to get into, andstudy this, and blah, blah,
blah.
And then you get in, you getinto an actual organization, and
you have all this other shit tobalance.
You're like, I didn't sign upfor this is crazy.
Like, no one prepares you forthe other things.
So, definitely, we definitelywanted to talk about that on
(41:48):
this particular episode and kindof get a, a real world, Look at
some of the other things thataren't talked about you talk
about all the good but Now let'stalk about some of the real
right?
So, all right any more thoughtson that kyle you have any more,
any more points on there?
Kyle (42:03):
I would say the 1 other thing that happens that I don't
think anybody ever really talkedabout or in all the classes that
I took or anything until till Iwas, working is like your
personal time
Pat (42:16):
Well big one.
Kyle (42:18):
Somebody's calling you.
Somebody's got a question.
You're on vacation and you'relike, what?
You're like, what is happeningright now?
And, oh, I had a question.
I did, and maybe with biggerteams or when things are spread
out a little more, that doesn'thappen as much.
But I've, I found that to be athing that happens.
You're getting called your afterhours or weekends, day that
(42:42):
you're on vacation becausesomebody needs.
A bit of information, or help,or something.
Pat (42:48):
Yeah.
I find that a lot.
And I was in that for quite afew years and it burned me out.
It really did.
Like I used to take, I used totake my work phone on vacation
even though I had the out ofoffice on, like people still
reached out to me and be like,Hey, you know what?
And that's the other thing too,like if you're on a team and
you're the only person thatknows how to do something or is
(43:11):
the best person at something,you get called regardless of
what you're doing.
Regardless of if you're out ofoffice, you're at the beach,
you're at the, you're on aplane, it doesn't matter.
You're literally going to get,somebody's going to IM you,
someone's going to call you,someone's going to text you.
That's just, it's a problem.
I'm not going to say it's not aproblem.
That, that's definitely a stigmathat this industry has.
(43:34):
Like, it just does a lot ofbusinesses and therefore your
teams.
And again, that all comes backto culture, right?
How, how good of a culture doyou really have?
Like.
They're going to reach out toyou and they just don't respect
your personal time.
That's just a lot of it.
It just comes down to, them andall of the business just doesn't
(43:56):
respect your personal time.
And then they wonder why peopleleave and they have such high
turnover.
Like it's not that difficult ofa concept.
Like, you're running thesepeople into the ground.
Like and we all know that onceyou bend over backwards for one
person, That person then isgoing to skip the line and come
directly to you with everyproblem they've ever had.
(44:18):
Like, it drives me crazy.
I get it.
I get why they do it, but itdrives me crazy.
And then that's where yourcompany culture comes in or your
process as an IT departmentcomes in and says, No, you have
to go through the properprocess.
You can't just go right to thetop of the ladder again because
(44:39):
that person's already busy withother things.
So, If you have five, if thatperson has five things that
they're working on and you cometo them with a sixth, that means
one of those previous five hasto get dropped.
They can only ever have fivethings, go on it at one time.
So you're telling me thatperson's problem is more of a
(45:01):
problem or more of an issue thanthe five things you're already,
than you're working on?
Then you tell me which one ofthese five that I'm going to
drop that help this person.
Kyle (45:10):
Right.
Pat (45:10):
Right.
That sort of thing.
So it happens all the time andjust people, So the people that
I've worked with, they justgenerally want to help people,
right?
but then that gets takenadvantage of because you're just
you're helping people all thetime and then it never ends then
it's Then you become theirpersonal IT person no matter
what it is Like say if you're anetwork guy people come to me
(45:33):
all the time about oh, I can'tget to this database Fuck do I
know about a database like canyou ping the database?
Yeah, I can.
My job is done.
Like, put a ticket in.
Like, that's, I'm not playingthis game.
Like, it happens all the time.
Or, hey I can't get to this.
Well, can you ping it?
(45:55):
Yeah.
Can you RDP to it?
Yeah.
Alright, then my job is done.
Well, I can't get this job towork to run in sequel.
Not a network problem.
Like just like what are youdoing?
Yeah, like people will chew youup and spit you out you have to
draw a line in the sand and saylook No, you have to put a
(46:17):
ticket in.
I don't mean to be the bad guy,but You coming to me every time
and then me just helping you offthe cuff That doesn't help me
when I'm on vacation.
You have to go to someone elselike If you did it the right way
the first time and put in yourtickets and put in your paper
trail, that gives you a fightingchance to have somebody actually
go on vacation.
Plain and simple.
(46:37):
And I'm not getting called attwo in the afternoon when I'm on
the boardwalk and Hey, I need,how do you do this in the Palo
Alto?
Or how do you do this in DNACenter?
No, just stop.
Like, see what I mean?
Like, I just, I feel like, yeahpeople will chew you up and spit
you out as long as you let them.
So just take that for what it'sworth and a word of advice.
(46:59):
So,
Kyle (47:00):
Right.
Pat (47:00):
anything else?
Kyle (47:01):
Nah, I think that's about what I got.
Pat (47:03):
That was it.
I feel like that was a, I feellike this podcast was a
combination of warnings and likea bitch session.
So, we hope you got some valueout of that.
Yeah, we just wanted to give...
just a little insight of whathappens day to day.
Just some of the red flags thatwe've seen over our careers of,
(47:27):
real versus, what's put outthere in the interwebs, what
your friends tell you, that kindof thing.
So yeah, just just take it forwhat it's worth.
And if you have any questions oror if you have anything that,
Really that you've seen ifyou're an I.
T.
professional already, you haveto add to this list.
Certainly let us know.
We'd love to hear what kind of,stuff that you've.
(47:48):
Been through over your career aswell.
So always a always a good timeand seeing what other people
experience outside of ourbubble.
So Kyle, anything else?
Other than that we'll wrap it upand get out of
Kyle (47:59):
think that that's about it.
Pat (48:01):
That's about it.
So next week we're going to do acool episode, longest things
line up.
We're going to do a cool episodeon first timers at Cisco live.
Alex has gone before, obviously.
This is my first time at CiscoLive.
It's coming up in two weekshere.
So we're going to try to sneakin an episode next week of he's
going to give a rundown of, somecool things at Cisco Live, some
(48:23):
of his experiences what youshould be doing versus what you
can skip, that sort of thing.
So looking forward to thatbecause I need all the help I
can get, both at Cisco Live and,Professional life.
So it's all good there.
But yeah, so stay tuned for thatand then we'll see we'll see
everybody.
The next couple of weeks withsome really cool episodes coming
up.
So, we want to thank everybodyfor joining this week the new
(48:45):
episode of breaking down thebites as usual.
Appreciate you hanging with usfor about an hour, maybe a
little less than this one, butmake sure you visit our website,
breakingbytespod.
io where you can subscribe tothe show on your platform of
choice.
So Apple podcast, Spotify,Google podcast, Stitcher, pretty
much anywhere that has a podcastwe're there.
So, or if you just need a RSSfeed that that's up there too.
(49:08):
So, so you never miss a show.
If you throw us a rating onApple podcasts, that'd be great.
That's where most of thelisteners come from.
So our stats tell us, so, eithera rating or a comments on that.
So, or review, that would beawesome.
That fools with the algorithmsand gets us into more people's
ear holes.
That's always good to follow upthere as well.
Or simply tell a friend thatworks just as well too.
(49:30):
So we've gotten some goodfeedback on that.
Speaking of feedback, thesurveys still out there.
We're kind of just going to letthat open end.
Kind of run for as long as wecan and surveys out there.
The link is in our show notes.
If you want to give us somefeedback, if you love us, if you
hate us.
We're somewhere in between.
That's cool too.
Just tell us there's a couple ofquestions.
(49:51):
We don't know who you are.
It's completely anonymous.
It just aggregates answers forus and puts us into pretty pie
charts and graphs and calculatesanswers.
So all good there as well.
Socials, right?
So LinkedIn, Twitter Facebook.
The discord server out thereagain, the the the the survey
all that stuff is in the shownotes of the episode.
(50:12):
So go and take a peek at that.
Kyle, it's been great andawesome.
We're going to tackle anotherMonday coming up here and we'll
see everybody next week,everybody take it easy.
Bye.
Hey, everybody.
Welcome back to this week'sedition of breaking down the
bites as usual.
I'll be your host, Pat.
You can find me on Twitter atlayer eight packet.
That's the number eight.
You can find Kyle on Twitter atDanis 256.
You can find the show on Twitterat breaking bites pod.
We're pretty active on Twitter.
(00:21):
So come say hello.
And as always.
Don't forget if you like theshow subscribe, subscribe on
your favorite streaming platformof choice.
So we are back again this week.
No, Alex, just Kyle and I, thedynamic duo, not the three
Musketeers, but the dynamic duo.
(00:43):
Alex is off in a way.
I think his mom is visiting himthis week out there in sunny
SoCal.
So he's spending some time withthe fam.
So shout out to Alex and thefam.
So, we'll be back next week fora special episode before we ship
out to Cisco, Cisco live.
So that's going to be cool.
So Kyle, what's up, man?
How you doing?
Kyle (01:03):
Yeah, not too bad.
How about yourself?
Pat (01:05):
Living that dream, my friend.
As you can kind of tell, I don'tknow if it comes across, but
I've had like a hoarse voice foralmost two weeks now.
Like, since we got back from thebeach and the pollen and the
allergies in this area is justredonkulously high.
I've had like a dry cough andthis raspy sort of voice for
like, tomorrow it'll be twoweeks.
So I'm like any day now, thiscough and just general stuffy
(01:29):
allergy nonsense can go away.
So I'm looking forward to that.
So are you an allergy guy Kyle?
Did you get allergies?
Kyle (01:40):
Sometimes.
Pat (01:41):
Yeah.
Kyle (01:42):
It's,
Pat (01:42):
usually not a big allergy guy.
Kyle (01:44):
yeah.
Although, I have heard that thatkind of hoarseness thing has
been going around.
Pat (01:48):
Yeah, I don't know what the deal is.
We came back from the beach and,like, I was fine at the beach,
just had nice ocean air and allof a sudden you get back here in
the valley and you're like, yourface is like the size of a
balloon and you're like, justallergies everywhere.
So, ugh, it's brutal.
So I apologize if I sound alittle hoarse and I'm, doing the
(02:09):
best to trudge on, but the showmust go on, right?
That's the way it's the way itgoes.
So, yeah, it's been real nicehere weather wise.
So getting out, but I can'tbelieve tomorrow is Monday
already.
And we're it's just crazy yearsflying by the daughter is now
four years old.
She turned four last Sunday.
So a week from.
A week from today, she, on the14th, she's four years older
(02:31):
already.
I'm like, you need to stopgrowing up so goddamned quickly.
This is insanity.
It's like, geez, the older youget means the older I get.
And I'm not okay with that.
So,
Kyle (02:41):
be taking the car key soon.
Pat (02:43):
And oh, don't, oh, don't even say that.
That's just crazy.
Or, maybe by the time she'sdriving, there'll be self
driving cars, and we'll justhave to get in and George Jetson
it.
It'd be like, take me to thegrocery store.
Doot, whatever.
So that was all good.
So, we wanted to take this timeor this week to sort of talk
(03:05):
about some of the downsides ofit, if you will, because
everybody thinks that, it isgreat field to get in.
And, there's this endlessendless work and blah, blah,
blah.
And believe me, there is, it's,it, we, Kyle and I still think.
It's a great field to get intothat's what we're saying, but we
(03:25):
normally always focus on thepositive here.
And so this week we're going todo a little bit of a negative,
but just kind of some realisticthings that Kyle and I have seen
in the industry of maybe thatmight turn some people off and,
Hey, that's just.
You're not cut out for this,right?
That sort of thing.
So, I want to talk about thatthis week and kind of get your
thoughts on a Kyle and see wherewe land, but there are a few
(03:48):
things that I kind of thought offor this episode to kind of,
warn folks about if they'rejust, if they're not used to, if
they're not in this industry nowand what kind of, what they can
kind of expect from therealistic side of things outside
of the good pay and themulticolored beanbag chairs and
the offices that you sit at.
Yeah, that kind of thing.
There, there are some downsidesto it.
So I don't know, Kyle, you haveany opening thoughts on that
(04:09):
topic?
Kyle (04:10):
I would say I've seen a few people, especially when I
was still working at the helpdesk and we get interns come in
and they'd get into the it fieldand it's like, all right, why
are you here?
Like, what's the driving forcethat's making you do it?
And it was like money.
And it's like, okay, well, doyou have any interest or passion
(04:32):
for technology?
And it's like.
No, I've never even opened acomputer, like looked inside of
it.
And like, you kind of have tohave that drive and the passion
to even want to do it in thefirst place.
I mean, like money's nice.
That's, it's a good power adkind of thing like that and
freedom and whatnot, but.
If you don't even like tech,it's probably not the first
(04:54):
choice you should go to.
Pat (04:56):
Yeah.
Yeah, no, I agree.
I think that's a big one.
I think that's a bigmisconception that you started
in IT and you're all of a suddenat six figures right out the
gate and that doesn't.
That doesn't happen.
So sorry to burst anyone'sbubble out there, but that just
doesn't work that way.
And, the other commonmisconception I see is that,
everybody thinks they start atthe top, right?
(05:16):
So that's not going to happeneither.
So you're going to have to cutyour teeth on a help desk
position somewhere.
You're going to have to cut yourteeth on, call center of some
sort and whether that's like Isaid, a more traditional help
desk or or just, a call center.
I mean, I started a call centerin a cable company, so
supporting cable modems when thebroadband boom was going on back
(05:37):
in the early 2000s.
So, you learn various skills atthat particular, position as
well.
It's sort of how to talk topeople, how to massage them to
get, to do what you want them todo without making them feel
stupid and, etc.
So, at one point we weresupporting cable modems.
We were supporting the highdefinition, set top boxes.
And like, we did it all.
(05:58):
And, there was multiple dayswhere I had to teach, grandma
how to put batteries in aremote.
So it humbles you like stupidquick, so you just, you don't
start out at the top.
And I think that's amisconception that a lot of
people think that, Oh yeah, I'mgoing to, just cause you like
something, you're strivingtowards it.
Doesn't mean you're going to endup doing it.
Right out of the gate when youfirst walk in the door.
(06:20):
So, that, that's a big one aswell.
So, I would also say if youdon't like change, I don't think
it is for you, right?
Because it moves at such arapid, crazy pace, especially in
today's world.
It's way faster than like, evenKyle, when you and I were in
(06:42):
college together, it just seemsto move way faster.
Just.
Yeah.
More than even 10 years ago.
Like it's just insane.
Cause it moved quick when wewere there, but like, it is like
lightspeed now it's just like,Holy Jesus.
I can't, I can't keep up withall this stuff.
So, so it's constantly changing.
If you don't like change it'sjust not for you.
(07:02):
Again, it just moves incrediblyquick and you have to be
prepared for that constantchange.
The only thing that's stagnantis the change.
Kyle (07:11):
Isn't that right?
Pat (07:11):
It's just, it's the weirdest thing, but you know,
just as one technology, you'restarting to get it in the door
and implement it.
Then you're ripping it out foranother one because it just life
cycles and things of thatnature.
It just doesn't, it just movesso freaking quick.
I can't.
Explain it how that goes.
Any thoughts on that from yourNAC days?
Kyle (07:32):
Yeah.
I mean, it's, now there's alwayssomething that's the newest and
the best and terms and, acronymsthat are flying all over the
place that you gotta stay on topand be able to, know what's
going on.
Because if not...
Like you said, if you don't stayrelevant and stuff, you just get
left behind.
Pat (07:49):
Yeah.
You're either moving forward oryou're literally falling behind.
There is no standing still.
So I would say that for sure.
I would also say that.
You have to, and I could speakfrom this from experience, maybe
Kyle, not you so much, but youhave to change you often have to
change companies or full blownindustries, right?
(08:12):
Staying in it, but moving thecompanies that you move to are
in different industries ordifferent verticals.
You cut, you have to change inorder to either a grow your
skills and be your career or seeyour paycheck or any combination
of those three, right?
So, especially from what I'veseen, people just don't get
(08:36):
promoted as much as I thought.
They might, they, they wouldhave, right.
For whatever reason, thesecompanies just seem to want to
bring in outside help or Ishould say outside management's
which I can kind of see.
But I don't think they're doingit for the right.
(08:56):
Reasons.
And I'll give you an example.
When you bring it outside help,you bring in fresh eyes, right?
You bring in fresh perspectiveof saying, okay, somebody, they
did this at this company.
It might work well here.
And since I'm the boss.
What I say goes right or,carries more weight than,
(09:18):
you're, people underneath you orpeople that are reporting to
you.
So that being said, it's fresheyes, you're not having the same
people swim in the same soup, ifyou will, right?
Because once you get used to aplace, you become part of that
Right.
So like, for example, if youwalk into a house and they're
cooking chicken noodle, andyou're like, Oh, that really
(09:40):
smells pretty good.
But you sit there for a halfhour.
You don't smell the chickennoodle anymore.
Cause you're used to it.
That kind of thing.
So I feel like that bringing infresh perspectives that has a
fresh set of eyes on things.
The other part of that is Idon't think they do that.
I don't think they realize, or Ishould say, that's not the
(10:01):
reason they're bringing peoplein.
Like they're, the business oftendoesn't understand what it does
for them and vice.
Versa, I guess.
So I just think they're, theybring in fresh blood because
they don't think the people thatthey have are going to be good
(10:24):
in that new position.
It's not because it's fresheyes.
They don't think like that.
It's, there's no, that train ofthought doesn't exist within
that.
Era, I should say, or withinthat thought bubble.
I wish it did.
Right.
So, but yeah, that's not whythey're bringing in new people,
not because they need fresh eyesor they think they need fresh
eyes most of the time.
(10:45):
It's because they look at theroster and say, look, I don't
really see.
Anybody that could really fillthis position.
Right.
So that's a big one.
I do think more peopleinternally need a chance.
But until that sort of mindsetchanges from the business side,
it's just, it's not going tohappen.
(11:06):
And I don't know what it takesto make that happen.
And that's why people movearound so much to say, look, I'm
worth more than this.
I'm going to try to go and,apply for new places.
And that job is going to give methat next position, that manager
or that senior title or whateveryou're kind of striving towards.
So that's why people move aroundso much.
And, we've had our good friend,Harry was on a few weeks back
(11:29):
and.
It used to be a thing where, jobhopping was looked at as like a
negative.
I go, let's go.
This guy's only been here.
This guy has only been here, ayear.
And then he's leaving.
Or this one's here seven monthsand he's leaving.
Well, if you don't ask thosereasons, it's usually people
don't leave jobs.
They leave bosses.
(11:51):
That's the number one thing.
They just people.
People generally tend to liketheir jobs and that's a general
statement.
They don't leave jobs or whatthey're doing day to day.
They don't leave theircoworkers, they leave
management.
That's the whole, that's theoverwhelming reason percentage
(12:12):
wise.
If you look at the data, whypeople need.
A new job, they can't deal withtheir managers or, like you
said, you're a mid level networkguy at one place and the next
job is looking for a senior guyand that's more money.
It's a different title and.
That appeals to people.
So just what it is.
(12:34):
So don't expect to be promoted.
I want to say right away.
I mean, yeah, it does happen.
Don't get me wrong.
You may go to team lead or youmay go to, some senior level
making that bump from eitherteam lead or senior to a
management position, it doesn'talways happen because they
(12:55):
always bring in the outsiders.
That's just the way thebusiness.
Works for whatever the reasonsmay be.
So I'll throw that out there.
Any thoughts on that Kyle?
Kyle (13:05):
No, I would definitely say that I've seen.
Pretty much exactly what you'resaying, where it's just like not
for the right reasons, but justbringing in new blood and not
promoting within kind of deallike that.
Pat (13:19):
Right.
Yeah.
And that goes back to thecompany culture and people want
to sit there and hang their hatson our culture is great.
Our culture is great.
Well, your turnover doesn't lookthat great either.
Why is that?
That kind of thing.
There's a direct correlationthere, so that I find that
interesting.
So just a word to the wise thereas well.
The other thing I wanted tomention and this depends, Kyle
(13:42):
and I living outside ofPhiladelphia, or I would say
outside we're about an hour toan hour and a half North,
depending on traffic.
That being said, the betterpaying jobs and there's more
jobs in a city, in a largercity.
Right.
So, for a good five years, Isplit two and a half years at
(14:02):
two companies driving down tothe suburbs of Philly and the
pay was much better.
Right.
So where we live we're in a biglike shipping warehouse.
Area of the country, right?
Cause we're right in between NewYork City and Philly.
So everybody and their motherhas warehouses here.
So there's not a whole lot of itjobs here in where we live in
(14:23):
the valley it's outside of King,it's outside of Philly, right.
It's King of Prussia.
It's that whole route.
4 22 corridor.
Collegeville, Phoenixville allthat corridor that, comes
through and leads into Phillyall the way down Route 76 and,
Radnor and, all those outside ofPhilly come and even in Philly
too.
(14:43):
And Philly's a big one.
Like people go literally to thecenter city of Philly.
For jobs, right?
For the tech stuff.
So I would say that, if you'renot a big fan of the big cities
and all that entails with that,right?
The commute to get there, the ifyou're living in a big city or
more often, is the the cost ofliving is higher, right?
Apartments are more and They'rehousing is more, et cetera.
(15:06):
Foods were right.
You look at the big, you look atthe big tech places.
Where are they?
They're in massive cities,right?
The San Frans of the world, theNew York's, the Silicon Valley's
right there.
They're all in major cities.
Austin, Texas, Dallas.
That's a big tech hub in thelast couple of years.
That's been, that's boomed,right?
So they're all in major cities.
(15:26):
So, again, if you're not a cityperson or, You find that hard to
juggle, that, that could be abig drawback into getting into
the it world.
That's just what it is.
Any thoughts on that, Kyle?
Kyle (15:39):
Yeah, I mean, definitely some flexibility for travel,
especially when you're firstbeginning to, that might just
kind of come with the territoryto get your foot in the door.
Pat (15:50):
Yeah, for sure.
Absolutely.
I had to.
So yeah it's just one of thosethings where it just depends on
where you're at.
And today in the remote quasiworld that we live in, that may
not be as big of an issue, butin the last couple of years that
they're pulling people back intoan office and hey, you had a
(16:11):
full, fully remote job for twoyears and now you got to go to,
now you got to go to a majorcity and, traffic and travel All
that kind of stuff that plays amassive part in in people's
decisions to get.
The next one I'm about to say,it should have been number one
for me, but I gave it a couplebullet points down because I
(16:31):
couldn't get this hyped up thisearly in the episode.
I just couldn't like, I wouldjust set the whole tone for the
entire episode.
I'm going to say this right now.
And believe me, when I say this,it is a.
Absolutely a thankless job.
No one gives a flying F about ituntil it doesn't work.
(16:59):
I'm telling you right now andthe higher you go in your
position, the more eyes are onyou to basically not have shit
break.
Kyle (17:09):
Mm
Pat (17:10):
But you know, for a fact, it is going to break because
it's tech, it's technology.
It happens.
These things are literallyelectronics.
It happens, right?
So we don't have a magic wand.
We don't have an easy button.
I'll allow the staplescommercials from a few years
ago.
Like this shit happens all thetime.
(17:32):
And it is a thankless job, andI'm sure other jobs are
thankless.
It seems like that's the worldwe live in nowadays, right?
Just, but it's literally, whathave you done for me lately?
And you're only as good as yourlast fuck up.
That's it.
That's literally it.
It drives me crazy.
(17:52):
And it's like, listen, youdidn't give a shit about the 10
projects that went absolutelysmooth that made efficiencies go
through the roof and saved youmoney in the longterm.
You didn't give a shit aboutthose, but the one time on a
Sunday where you couldn't get towhatever or like a, an ISP took
a dump.
That's something that's outside,completely outside of your
(18:13):
control.
Now you're going to give me shitabout it.
Like slow your horses.
Like that's just, Oh, it drivesme crazy.
Drives me bananas.
Talk about that, Kyle, because Iknow you have a story.
Kyle (18:25):
Yeah.
I mean, even just getting thestuff that you need to be able
to do your job properly isalways, like, Hey, I'd like to
get this switch and.
We should get redundant powersupplies for it.
So if one fails, you have theother one.
Well, do you really need to?
Why, like, just get one.
It's, you save eight, eight,nine hundred bucks or something.
(18:47):
You're like no, but then if itfails.
The whole thing falls, andyou're like, well it's brand
new, it shouldn't fail, andyou're like, but it's, it can,
like,
Pat (18:57):
Oh,
Kyle (18:58):
and you just,
Pat (18:58):
makes my head hurt.
It makes my head hurt.
And this is why I did this inthe 20 minute mark
Kyle (19:04):
right, right,
Pat (19:05):
because if we would have started out of this, if we would
have started out with thistopic, we would have been guns
blazing and we would have beenbitching the whole episode.
God damn it.
Kyle (19:14):
but it's definitely, and those, yeah, when something goes
wrong, that mark always juststays there, like.
Hey, remember that time?
Remember that time you fuckedup, like, five years ago, and
you're like,
Pat (19:25):
years ago
Kyle (19:26):
Wasn't even my fault! And you're like,
Pat (19:29):
4 47 in the afternoon, I couldn't get my, I couldn't get
Excel to open.
And the other thing too is like,I don't deal with this a whole
lot now, but I used to, butlike, if you have a change
that's planned and it actuallyaffects the end user and you
send emails months in advance.
(19:52):
Multiple emails for like a monthat a time.
I guarantee you it's all whitenoise.
It goes right in the frickingtrashcan of these email boxes.
And the second you change it,they got the nerve to go, why'd
you change it?
I wasn't notified.
Oh my God.
I have like, I was, I'm ready tostrangle people at that point.
I'm like, I have seven emailsthat I sent you over the last
(20:16):
month and a half saying thatthis was your D day.
Now all of a sudden we're at Dday and I pushed the button and
now you're going to be like.
You didn't notify me.
Why is this changing?
I'm not right.
I'm not here to write a thesislike come on This isn't that
difficult.
Kyle (20:32):
Guilty till proven innocent, right?
Then the case of like, Well,Sandra, if you look back at 337
on, Friday afternoon, I sent youthis.
Email.
Yeah.
Right.
Pat (20:45):
And I have a read receipt from you so I know you read it
Don't lie to me sandra.
Kyle (20:50):
Right.
Pat (20:51):
Oh, it just drives me crazy No, to go back to your point
with, with the switch and thepattern, the dual power supply,
it's like you have to explainthese things to biz to the
business in money terms, right?
So if that switch or if thatpower supply for that switch is
an extra 900, right?
If something goes, if thatswitch goes down, are you losing
(21:13):
more than 900 of business?
Due to that switch being out, ifthe answer is yes, get the
second power supply.
That's the answer.
Like
Kyle (21:25):
JUSTIN
Pat (21:26):
just, Oh, and the other thing too, is like, and that
sort of bleeds into the, to,what we're, another topic here,
but like, you have to learn todo more with less.
Kyle (21:39):
Always.
Pat (21:40):
Always you're doing more with less.
Like you're we're constantlybitched at about budget.
It is all about budget.
How much, how little can wespend and yet how fast can we
go?
Like that is literally thewhole.
Like crux of the last few jobsthat I've had, when I ask, what
(22:04):
do you want?
And I put things on paper that Ihave to sit there and justify
why the things I want cost somuch.
And it's like, okay, you do thisor you do this, or you want to
get into that space.
You can't get into that spaceuntil you have this or this
redundancy or this architectureor whatever the case may be.
(22:25):
And then they always cutsomething always.
It's.
It's ripped the shreds and thenthey go do it again.
And so I do it again and I swearto God, this happens more times
than often, more times than not.
We get a year, maybe eightmonths to a year down the road
(22:45):
and we needed that somethingthat was axed from the budget.
And they go, why can't we dothis?
Cause you axed it from my budgetliterally eight months ago when
I had a decent business case onthe freaking table.
Well, what can we do now to getaround it?
Stop timeout, just stop.
Like the amount of times that Ihave made the Ferrari go on a
(23:15):
clown car budget is justastonishing to me.
Like you just have to learn todo more with less.
Cause it's, at the end of theday, you come down, it is a
number, right?
They're just some places arebetter than others.
I've worked at some really goodplaces.
I've worked in some really badplaces.
It like, It is just a necessaryevil, right?
(23:38):
It they have to pay for itbecause they have to.
If they didn't, if they didn'thave to, they wouldn't, but they
need it as an everyday, it'sbuilt in business now, so they
throw just enough money at it tokeep it going.
Not necessarily keep it running.
Right.
It just keeps it going, and thenyou're expected to make the
(23:59):
Ferrari car.
Out of Hugo parts, that kind ofthing.
It's just, it drives me crazy.
So yes, learn to do more.
With less because everywhere islike that and that's the beauty
of a good manager if you can putout Your ideologies and say look
I think we should do this andthis for this year Then the
(24:20):
manager says okay Then he takesit above to his people Who are
often the money people, right?
To sign the checks and say, weneed this because this ties into
this business objective, andthis business objective.
But I haven't met a lot of thosepeople.
Those managers just basicallysay, Hey, here it is.
And it's going to cost us amillion.
(24:41):
And they go, why?
And the manager goes, Oh, it'sjust what stuff costs.
And then they go, no, if you'renot going to give me a reason
for it, I'm going to ask it.
And there we go.
You get taxed and we stumblealong for the next, the next
year until the budget cyclecomes down.
The only thing I would say iswhatever budget you do get,
spend every penny of it or closeto.
Kyle (25:01):
JUSTIN
Pat (25:02):
penny of it because I guarantee you when it comes
around again for budget timenext year They're gonna look at
it and go we gave you x amountof money.
You didn't spend all of it Sowe're not giving you that we're
not giving you as much this yearBecause you did with less last
year And here you thought youwere a good samaritan saving the
company money not spending allyour budget there you are.
You shot yourself in the fuckingfoot Oh, it happens all the
(25:26):
time.
Kyle (25:27):
And you got the triangle, right, the good, fast, and
cheap?
ALICE
Pat (25:36):
you can only have two of the three Yeah, it could be good
and fast, but it won't be cheap.
It could be good and cheap andit won't be fast.
Oh, yeah it's, yeah, then that'sthat stuff stresses.
It used to stress me.
It doesn't anymore.
I don't care.
I mean, I'm at a point where Imean, I care, but like, It used
(25:57):
to really stress me out.
I'd be like, why doesn't thebusiness go for this?
And like, that was more of myown head to being like, I know
in my own head, what I'm tryingto say.
I have a terrible time flippingthat into a business case and
under, and having the businessunderstand why it's good for the
business.
In my head, it's all technicaland I'm like yeah, but I live in
(26:20):
this world.
That's the world I live in.
They don't live in my world.
So I have a hard time taking aout of my head and getting it to
be in the biz and the way thebusiness is going to be like,
yeah, that makes sense.
Let's do that.
That's a good investment.
Yeah, that kind of thing.
So, I would say that's a bigone.
Just learn to do more with less.
And I've seen it multiple timesthat they're so short sighted
(26:45):
and then it eventually comesaround and they go, why can't we
do this?
Well, you didn't give me moneyfor it.
When I asked for it in thebudget, you had to ask something
and that's what it was.
And they go, okay.
Or they say, oh, let's try to doit.
Okay, pony up the money andwe'll do it.
But like there's just so muchshort sightedness when it comes
to that It just it drives youcrazy.
(27:08):
So be prepared for that fightbecause it happens constantly.
Here's the other thing that Idon't Necessarily appreciate it.
Maybe it's because I'm in thenetwork side and we're literally
the plumbers of the it world.
There's two things, one thing.
And again you'll find this veryquick and it burns a lot of
(27:30):
people out.
Everyone's lack of planning.
Is an emergency on your parthappens all the time.
People, I don't know what it is.
They just, whether they'regetting kicked at from a client,
like a, a third party vendor ora client and they get it last
(27:53):
minute.
And then they turn around andgive it to us last minute, or
oh, I forgot to do something.
And now I have a deadline andnow they kick it over to you.
But I cannot tell you how manytimes on a Friday afternoon
somebody comes to me and says,oh, I need this done either by
today or Monday.
(28:15):
And it's a fire.
Why is it a fire?
Why do I only have less than 24hours to turn something around?
Because.
You didn't do your due diligenceor you didn't plan on your port
again.
And yeah, your lack of planningis not an emergency on my part.
(28:36):
I have protocols and stuff I gotto follow too.
Like why am I expected to throwmy protocols and whatnot out the
window?
Just to.
Just to cover up your mess.
It happens all the time and itdrives me crazy.
So, speak.
Ah, just, ah, it drives me, ah,drives me nuts.
Kyle (28:56):
was gonna say, back to some of the, I guess, customer
service or helpdesk or anythinglike that,
Pat (29:02):
Yeah.
Kyle (29:03):
expect to be lied to.
Constantly.
Oh,
Pat (29:07):
the time.
Kyle (29:08):
hey, can you restart your computer?
Oh, I already did that, like,you're full of shit, you did
not, you absolutely,
Pat (29:13):
uptime says seven days and twelve hours.
You're like, what?
Oh, you restarted, huh?
What, last week?
Ah.
Kyle (29:20):
And, like, none of the end users, half the time their own
problems are self inflicted.
They don't want to incriminatethemselves, so they'll just,
nah, I don't know what happened,just like, I didn't spill my
java smoothie thing on thekeyboard, and like,
Pat (29:33):
Yep.
Kyle (29:35):
So that's, you're gonna have to play detective, turn on
your BS meter, and, just, yeah.
It's, it gets infuriating, andthen you get to the bottom, and
you're like...
Once you catch them, theynormally fess up to it.
Except, some people do doubledown, but normally they fess up,
and you're like, why wouldn'tyou just tell me that from the
(29:55):
get go?
We could've saved each other,like, two hours.
JUSTIN
Pat (29:59):
yeah, this call could have been ten minutes, not an hour
and ten minutes.
Like, Jesus.
Ah, yeah.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
We used to call that a pebcacproblem exists between keyboard
and share.
That's always a good one.
It's more acronyms for you folksout there.
But yeah, no, that's a good one.
What I used to do when I workedat the cable company is like,
like we had so many issues inthe field and not enough texts
(30:22):
to go out and like, actuallylike fix this stuff.
So like people would be waitinglike four or five days to get a
tech out.
And get internet going aroundlike it was bad and so like our
supervisors voicemails were justfull of just angry people just
flipping the fuck out like youmean to tell me I can't and like
(30:45):
it was so funny because likethey had this thing where like
oh you know.
Like they'd throw it out to tryto get somebody earlier.
They'd be like, Oh, I run abusiness from this, from my
home.
And like, and my first questionwas, Oh, do you have a business
account?
And they would go no, that kindof thing.
Like, exactly.
If you don't have a businessaccount, then.
Business accounts are same dayservice, right?
(31:06):
We'd have somebody out theresame day, but you're also paying
that premium.
You know what I mean?
The premium money for the thingthat like people used to get
around, try to get around thatall the time.
Like, Oh, like, I'm running abusiness.
Why did I do, can you getsomebody out here faster?
Blah, blah, blah.
And like, so if I knew there wasa problem.
And I could sense it like Icould see the problem in the
first couple of minutes as I'mlike, talking to them on the
(31:29):
phone.
Cause like I spent seven yearsthere.
So I was pretty quick.
Right.
Like I, there wasn't a whole lotof issues like that.
It could be, there was only afinite amount of problems that
you could have with your cableloader.
Right.
It's not, you're not solvingworld peace or curing cancer,
but but I can have them unscrewthe coax from the back of the
modem.
Just unscrew that for a second.
(31:50):
I'm going to run a few tests onthis end and I'll just put you
on hold and I'll be right back.
I would just put them on hold,wait for a few minutes, go get,
grab a cup of coffee or water orsomething.
Because like once it'sdisconnected from the coax, I
had no.
You know what I mean?
Like it was already down.
So I wasn't doing any voodoomagic behind the scenes or
whatever.
So like, I come back like, okay,I'm done.
(32:10):
I'm all done.
You can screw it back in, maybeseven out of eight times out of
10.
That was, that would fix it.
Right.
That would be just enough to getit back online.
either now.
It was good, like your actualsignals from the cable modem
side were good.
It just needed, it neededwhether that pin was bent on the
(32:31):
inside of the coax or sometimesthe shield of the actual coax
gets all goofy and whatnot.
Just that unscrewing unscrewlike worked wonders or it was
just enough to get that modemback online where I could
actually see like the actualsignals and they were all outta
whack.
And then that would give meenough time to schedule a tech.
For those like three or fourdays, at least I had them
(32:51):
online, but the tech would bethere in three or four days,
actually look at the actualissue and see if you can adjust
the signal.
But like you learn those quips,you learn that stuff and it
helped us level of like, youlearn what to do with people
that are just.
Not happy because nobody callsit with everything working fine,
right?
Nobody calls him like nobody,nobody calls me up and says,
(33:12):
yeah, your shit's working realgood.
Kyle (33:14):
LAUGH JUSTIN
Pat (33:15):
Nobody does that.
They call you because somethingis amiss.
Something is wrong.
So they're already hot and heavyby the time they get on the
phone with you.
So like, man I've, learning totalk to people in that aspect in
that.
Setting was just so key for meto kind of catapult me into the
you know into the next rung orladder or whatnot, but yeah
(33:37):
expect to be lied to because itdoes happen quite a bit It's
just that's just the way of theworld again people try to cover
it up or whatever They don'twant to they don't want to seem
stupid whatever blah blah blahjust be like You're not the
first person to lie to me, like,just tell me the truth and we'll
get on with our day.
It's not that difficult of aconcept.
So crazy.
(33:58):
Did you have any others?
Kyle (33:59):
All right.
So I'm sure anybody that's everdone any it work, especially you
can probably
Pat (34:09):
Oh god.
Kyle (34:10):
everyone expects you to fix.
Every fucking electronic productin their house, for free, when
they want it, on their time,like, they're calling you,
asking you questions, like, ifyou were a doctor, they wouldn't
be like, well, can you just comeover, do surgery, like, no,
that's not okay, you're an ITguy, like.
You're an A.
(34:31):
V.
guy, you're an I.
T.
guy, you're a networking guy,you're a Wi Fi guy, like, how do
I set up my cable top box?
You're like, what?
That's not even what I do.
Pat (34:40):
Anything that plugs into an electrical outlet, you're on the
hook for.
It's so bad.
Especially that friends andfamily
Kyle (34:49):
ah,
Pat (34:50):
Oh, the family gets a hold of you?
Forget it.
Forget it.
I haven't had that a lot in thelast couple of years, but like
when I first started out,Everybody hit me up.
Hey, can you do this?
Or hey, I got a this or like theworst was like, hey I got a new
Mac.
Can you come and help me set itup?
I'm like, I don't deal with thatvoodoo magic the fuck out of
(35:11):
here.
I Gotta hit like nothing againstMax, but there's just not for
me.
That's like, yeah, you'll findthat most IT people I just said
well, maybe not In today'sworld, but like when you and I
were in college and stuff, wewouldn't touch Macs to save our
souls.
Like that's just like if theysaid I'll give you a million
dollars to fix this Mac issue belike nah, not for me, bro Like
(35:33):
it's just we just didn't touchhim now It seems like every cool
cat on the corner has a Mac butlike, you know They just weren't
that they weren't that in theyweren't that popular when you or
I were kind of coming up Theywere basically if you were not A
graphics designer or some sortof web design or, you know what
I mean?
Like a Photoshop, high art, thatkind of art student, you didn't
(35:54):
have a Mac.
That's the only thing they weregood for was editing, like
audio, like video and, the artsystuff like outside of that.
Like they just weren't a thing.
So yeah, no, I agree with that.
It's just yeah Like once peopleknow you're an IT guy, you
literally fix everything likeoh, my toast is burning too dark
(36:16):
Can you come and help me fix it?
Yeah, let's Stick a fork inthere.
See what happens
Kyle (36:21):
right.
Pat (36:22):
Yeah, this is just it's crazy.
I get it.
Nope.
And like, I belong to a Facebookgroup or two of like, tech IT
centered groups and stuff.
Like, there's some places outthere that literally have IT.
Like responsible for everythingthat plugs into a wall and
you're like what?
(36:44):
That's like that's insane.
That's I'm like, yeah, that'sjust not that's not me.
Like I Like oh, yeah, my youknow the dehumidifier that's
under Rose's desk.
It's really getting hot Can yougo look at that?
You're like no Like tell herdon't plug it sorry, But Yeah,
(37:06):
it's just crazy.
This is crazy.
What else?
So sort of, and this is the lastone for me.
I don't know, Kyle, if you haveany, if you have any more, but
the, I mean, all of the thingsthat we just mentioned, to be
honest with you, I have todouble check this, don't quote
me on this, but the amount ofhigh turnover that it has,
(37:31):
because it just stresses so manypeople out.
The various reasons that we justmentioned, I think it's higher
than actual retail and retail isretail choose through people.
Like it's nobody's business.
It's just so crazy.
But it has a very high turnoverfor those particular reasons.
(37:54):
And it's just, the.
The whole moving, moving fastchange and, changing companies
and expected to do more withless, right?
That's a big one.
I just, so many people just getburned out on that.
It's like, do this, and this,but I won't give you the
resources for it.
Well, then it ain't thatimportant to you, bro.
(38:14):
We're just not the, thethankless job, right.
Everybody always cares, whenyour last fuck up was, nobody
ever says nice job on those 10previous projects that went
smooth as silk, right.
That kind of thing.
It's, it just leads to highturnover.
It's burnout city.
People just, it chews throughpeople, especially now that it's
so integrated in today's world.
(38:36):
And.
The business Like it's such anintegral part of the business.
Just, it just burns people out.
Right.
You just, you start to getchippy with people and, you're
just not a, you become not apeople person, that sort of
thing.
So, it's a very high turnover inthat, in that aspect of it.
(38:57):
So, just to, just a couple ofthings that just kind of thought
off the top of my head, like,you just.
You definitely need patience inthis industry.
Like it's definitely a virtue.
Like it's just, you just, yeah,that's kind of going back to
what you said, Kyle, with thewhole help desk thing.
And, oh yeah, I rebooted.
Huh.
Sure.
That kind of thing.
The patience is a big one,right?
(39:17):
You just.
You get the same people makingthe same mistakes over and over.
And it's just like, how manytimes do I have to write this
down?
That kind of thing.
Continuing education.
You want to continue youreducation, right?
This is a constant field ofeducation and you're going to be
studying until you're fuckingretiring.
Like our good buddy, Mike Kelly,just, he literally just got his
(39:38):
master's degree from Kutztown,literally.
Like a week ago, and he's in hismid fifties, right?
And they're like, he's like,he's got like nine years to
retire.
I'm like, yeah, I did, so, he'sdoing it and he's, doing the
the, the certs and the master'sdegree and stuff like that.
So education is another big one.
If you don't want to workoutside nine to five IT's not
(39:59):
cut out for you.
Because nobody does anymaintenance in the middle of the
day, right?
It's just, it's all aboutmitigating risk and downtime,
right?
That's the thing too, right?
Or if you're easily frustratedor you give up quickly, right?
It's just, it's the...
It's not necessarily the techskills that you're going to have
a problem with.
It's the other stuff.
It's the EQ versus the IQ,right?
(40:21):
That kind of thing.
So, and you're going to have tobe able to multitask as well.
Right.
So, working on multiple projectsat once or multiple tickets at
once.
Right.
So you're always trying to,people are always trying to get
something from you, whetherthat's your time, whether that's
your knowledge, whatever, likepeople turn to you for a reason.
And if you're going to, Moretimes than one or more chances
(40:42):
than not, you're gonna have morethan one person coming to you at
a time.
So you have to learn to balancethat, that high pressure.
You can't please everybody, butyou're gonna have to set some
sort of boundary and multitask.
As many things as you can,right?
It's just what it is.
That kind of thing.
So, just kind of again, pros andcons.
(41:05):
To be honest with you, I thinkthere's more pros and there is
cons and we definitely want totouch on the cons, there are
more pros.
I still think this is a greatindustry to get into, but, a lot
of this stuff isn't talked aboutwhen people are changing jobs
or, coming up out of college andwhatnot.
Don't understand the real worldaspect of this, right?
Because all you hear about techis, you're.
(41:26):
Your certifications here, cloudthis, security this, and this is
a great field to get into, andstudy this, and blah, blah,
blah.
And then you get in, you getinto an actual organization, and
you have all this other shit tobalance.
You're like, I didn't sign upfor this is crazy.
Like, no one prepares you forthe other things.
So, definitely, we definitelywanted to talk about that on
(41:48):
this particular episode and kindof get a, a real world, Look at
some of the other things thataren't talked about you talk
about all the good but Now let'stalk about some of the real
right?
So, all right any more thoughtson that kyle you have any more,
any more points on there?
Kyle (42:03):
I would say the 1 other thing that happens that I don't
think anybody ever really talkedabout or in all the classes that
I took or anything until till Iwas, working is like your
personal time
Pat (42:16):
Well big one.
Kyle (42:18):
Somebody's calling you.
Somebody's got a question.
You're on vacation and you'relike, what?
You're like, what is happeningright now?
And, oh, I had a question.
I did, and maybe with biggerteams or when things are spread
out a little more, that doesn'thappen as much.
But I've, I found that to be athing that happens.
You're getting called your afterhours or weekends, day that
(42:42):
you're on vacation becausesomebody needs.
A bit of information, or help,or something.
Pat (42:48):
Yeah.
I find that a lot.
And I was in that for quite afew years and it burned me out.
It really did.
Like I used to take, I used totake my work phone on vacation
even though I had the out ofoffice on, like people still
reached out to me and be like,Hey, you know what?
And that's the other thing too,like if you're on a team and
you're the only person thatknows how to do something or is
(43:11):
the best person at something,you get called regardless of
what you're doing.
Regardless of if you're out ofoffice, you're at the beach,
you're at the, you're on aplane, it doesn't matter.
You're literally going to get,somebody's going to IM you,
someone's going to call you,someone's going to text you.
That's just, it's a problem.
I'm not going to say it's not aproblem.
That, that's definitely a stigmathat this industry has.
(43:34):
Like, it just does a lot ofbusinesses and therefore your
teams.
And again, that all comes backto culture, right?
How, how good of a culture doyou really have?
Like.
They're going to reach out toyou and they just don't respect
your personal time.
That's just a lot of it.
It just comes down to, them andall of the business just doesn't
(43:56):
respect your personal time.
And then they wonder why peopleleave and they have such high
turnover.
Like it's not that difficult ofa concept.
Like, you're running thesepeople into the ground.
Like and we all know that onceyou bend over backwards for one
person, That person then isgoing to skip the line and come
directly to you with everyproblem they've ever had.
(44:18):
Like, it drives me crazy.
I get it.
I get why they do it, but itdrives me crazy.
And then that's where yourcompany culture comes in or your
process as an IT departmentcomes in and says, No, you have
to go through the properprocess.
You can't just go right to thetop of the ladder again because
(44:39):
that person's already busy withother things.
So, If you have five, if thatperson has five things that
they're working on and you cometo them with a sixth, that means
one of those previous five hasto get dropped.
They can only ever have fivethings, go on it at one time.
So you're telling me thatperson's problem is more of a
(45:01):
problem or more of an issue thanthe five things you're already,
than you're working on?
Then you tell me which one ofthese five that I'm going to
drop that help this person.
Kyle (45:10):
Right.
Pat (45:10):
Right.
That sort of thing.
So it happens all the time andjust people, So the people that
I've worked with, they justgenerally want to help people,
right?
but then that gets takenadvantage of because you're just
you're helping people all thetime and then it never ends then
it's Then you become theirpersonal IT person no matter
what it is Like say if you're anetwork guy people come to me
(45:33):
all the time about oh, I can'tget to this database Fuck do I
know about a database like canyou ping the database?
Yeah, I can.
My job is done.
Like, put a ticket in.
Like, that's, I'm not playingthis game.
Like, it happens all the time.
Or, hey I can't get to this.
Well, can you ping it?
(45:55):
Yeah.
Can you RDP to it?
Yeah.
Alright, then my job is done.
Well, I can't get this job towork to run in sequel.
Not a network problem.
Like just like what are youdoing?
Yeah, like people will chew youup and spit you out you have to
draw a line in the sand and saylook No, you have to put a
(46:17):
ticket in.
I don't mean to be the bad guy,but You coming to me every time
and then me just helping you offthe cuff That doesn't help me
when I'm on vacation.
You have to go to someone elselike If you did it the right way
the first time and put in yourtickets and put in your paper
trail, that gives you a fightingchance to have somebody actually
go on vacation.
Plain and simple.
(46:37):
And I'm not getting called attwo in the afternoon when I'm on
the boardwalk and Hey, I need,how do you do this in the Palo
Alto?
Or how do you do this in DNACenter?
No, just stop.
Like, see what I mean?
Like, I just, I feel like, yeahpeople will chew you up and spit
you out as long as you let them.
So just take that for what it'sworth and a word of advice.
(46:59):
So,
Kyle (47:00):
Right.
Pat (47:00):
anything else?
Kyle (47:01):
Nah, I think that's about what I got.
Pat (47:03):
That was it.
I feel like that was a, I feellike this podcast was a
combination of warnings and likea bitch session.
So, we hope you got some valueout of that.
Yeah, we just wanted to give...
just a little insight of whathappens day to day.
Just some of the red flags thatwe've seen over our careers of,
(47:27):
real versus, what's put outthere in the interwebs, what
your friends tell you, that kindof thing.
So yeah, just just take it forwhat it's worth.
And if you have any questions oror if you have anything that,
Really that you've seen ifyou're an I.
T.
professional already, you haveto add to this list.
Certainly let us know.
We'd love to hear what kind of,stuff that you've.
(47:48):
Been through over your career aswell.
So always a always a good timeand seeing what other people
experience outside of ourbubble.
So Kyle, anything else?
Other than that we'll wrap it upand get out of
Kyle (47:59):
think that that's about it.
Pat (48:01):
That's about it.
So next week we're going to do acool episode, longest things
line up.
We're going to do a cool episodeon first timers at Cisco live.
Alex has gone before, obviously.
This is my first time at CiscoLive.
It's coming up in two weekshere.
So we're going to try to sneakin an episode next week of he's
going to give a rundown of, somecool things at Cisco Live, some
(48:23):
of his experiences what youshould be doing versus what you
can skip, that sort of thing.
So looking forward to thatbecause I need all the help I
can get, both at Cisco Live and,Professional life.
So it's all good there.
But yeah, so stay tuned for thatand then we'll see we'll see
everybody.
The next couple of weeks withsome really cool episodes coming
up.
So, we want to thank everybodyfor joining this week the new
(48:45):
episode of breaking down thebites as usual.
Appreciate you hanging with usfor about an hour, maybe a
little less than this one, butmake sure you visit our website,
breakingbytespod.
io where you can subscribe tothe show on your platform of
choice.
So Apple podcast, Spotify,Google podcast, Stitcher, pretty
much anywhere that has a podcastwe're there.
So, or if you just need a RSSfeed that that's up there too.
(49:08):
So, so you never miss a show.
If you throw us a rating onApple podcasts, that'd be great.
That's where most of thelisteners come from.
So our stats tell us, so, eithera rating or a comments on that.
So, or review, that would beawesome.
That fools with the algorithmsand gets us into more people's
ear holes.
That's always good to follow upthere as well.
Or simply tell a friend thatworks just as well too.
(49:30):
So we've gotten some goodfeedback on that.
Speaking of feedback, thesurveys still out there.
We're kind of just going to letthat open end.
Kind of run for as long as wecan and surveys out there.
The link is in our show notes.
If you want to give us somefeedback, if you love us, if you
hate us.
We're somewhere in between.
That's cool too.
Just tell us there's a couple ofquestions.
(49:51):
We don't know who you are.
It's completely anonymous.
It just aggregates answers forus and puts us into pretty pie
charts and graphs and calculatesanswers.
So all good there as well.
Socials, right?
So LinkedIn, Twitter Facebook.
The discord server out thereagain, the the the the survey
all that stuff is in the shownotes of the episode.
(50:12):
So go and take a peek at that.
Kyle, it's been great andawesome.
We're going to tackle anotherMonday coming up here and we'll
see everybody next week,everybody take it easy.
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