May 30, 2022 • 41 mins
You never know someone's true story, the reasons behind the decisions they make...but every now and then you get a peek.
I loved this conversation with Lesley Taylor of No Recipe Required podcast. Especially the meat pie discussion - yum!! I was able to snag the "recipe" and it's linked in the show notes! Ok, food aside, I was also super curious about her journey and what led her to leave a high level banking position to contentedly being "not in charge". It was such a contrast to my previous guests and I love that I get to represent this entire spectrum. It really truly just comes down to, what makes YOU happy?
Here's some of the things we discussed! What's your fave?
- How much money do you need before you're destitute?
- Just start playing!
- You get to decide what success looks like for you
- What's the price on emotional labor?
- Recognize your privilege.
Don't forget the meat pie!
For full show notes and for all the links mentioned in this episode go here.
Resources: Want to know 7 things you can do today to make leaving corporate easier? Grab it here!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jamie Stephens (00:04):
Welcome back to a another episode of Breaking Up
with Corporate today. I haveLesley Taylor here. And Lesley,
why don't you go ahead and justgive us a little bit of your
background and tell us whatyou're actually tell us what
you're doing today. And thenwe'll kind of get back into your
well back into the backstory alittle bit. Okay, well,
Lesley Taylor (00:24):
I'm coming to you from Toronto, where we're
finally starting to get a littlebit of warmer weather, but it's
still kind of on the chillyside. And I just this week
started a new job in retail,working in a cooking store. And
some, some people might say, Oh,well, yeah, big deal with the
(00:44):
store. But cooking is mypassion. My podcast called no
recipe required is all aboutfood and wine and cooking and
baking. And I love to cook andbake. So it's like I'm living in
Nirvana in this cookware storethat's got all the cool
appliances and little gadgetsand all the tools that you need
for cooking and baking andcookbooks. And like all kinds of
(01:06):
stuff like that. So I'm like, ina total happy place right now.
Jamie Stephens (01:09):
I love that. I mean, I think part of just kind
of the journey that we all gothrough is really realizing that
I get to define what successlooks like, for me, you know,
and it may not make sense toother people, it may not make,
you know, logical sense onpaper, or whatever, you know,
it's like, because I know youcame from a banking background
(01:31):
and that sort of thing. And it'sjust like, how did you get that
courage to really just just notgive a shit, whatever, what
other people thought about whatyou were doing?
Lesley Taylor (01:42):
Well, I mean, part of it comes with age,
right? Well, once you get over50, you the amount of like, you
know, cares, you have to give, Idon't know if you're allowed to
swear on this podcast, but youknow, the amount of cares that
you have left to give or is likeminuscule. And so and that can
be both a bonus, and can also bea bit of a downfall. Because if
(02:06):
you speak your mind too often,you start to become maybe a
liability or a little bitexpendable, because they know
they can't really control youthe way they thought they could.
And so you can only speak up sooften unless you have an exit
plan, right. And I can't saythat I was really like speaking
out or anything like that. ButI, I knew in the summer of 2019,
(02:27):
that I was really starting tonot enjoy the work that I was
doing anymore. So even though Iwas in banking, I wasn't
actually doing banking typework, I worked in more of a
consulting role. I worked withmanagers to help them improve
their business processes, I dida lot of training and
development. So I was teachingpeople how to improve their
businesses, that kind of thing.
So I was kind of working behindthe scenes, I wasn't in a bank
(02:49):
branch or anything like that.
But I just kind of was losingthe love for it. And I did love
it at for a time. But you know,I had a lot of family things
come up in 2019. So my mumpassed away in the summer of
2019. And then six weeks later,my cat passed away, he was only
10. And so it was just a lot ofchange. And I just it kind of
(03:15):
deflated me. And it's sort oflike not the the will to put up
with BS in business. I was like,You know what, I just don't want
to deal with any of thisanymore. So I'm a planner, I've
always been a planner, and Ilove numbers and spreadsheets.
And so I put a financial plantogether. And I looked at how
(03:36):
much money I had saved, how muchwas in my retirement plan, how
much money I would get as apension. Because luckily, due to
the number of years I'd workedin the bank and my age because
that you had to be over 55. Andyou had to have at least 15
years of service, to get apension and benefits and all of
that. So I knew that I was ongood footing. And I had a little
(03:58):
bit of money that would becoming in even after I retired.
But I still needed to run thenumber. So based on how much
money I had, in my bank accounthow much I had in my retirement
account, how long could I affordto live? Before I had to find
another job knowing that, youknow, I might not be able to
find a job doing something thatI love to do. My original
(04:20):
intention was oh, I'm gonna getinto the food industry because I
love to cook and I love to bake.
And you know, I want to dosomething in there. So I put my
plan together and my financialplan and I knew I had about six
months or so of savings before Ireally had to start like
seriously looking for a job. Andso I retired February 1 of 2020.
And then the whole world shutdown a month later. So all those
(04:43):
plans that I had to try and youknow, take on a new career
because all the stores wereclosed and all the restaurants
were closed and like everythingthat I thought I wanted to do
and the whole food industrycompletely changed like every
chef out They had to pivot todoing something new servers all
found jobs doing other things,because there was just no work
(05:06):
available anymore. So I thought,Okay, well, what am I going to
do. And so I knew I was sellingmy house because I had prepared,
I bought a condo. And it wasabout a year and a bit away from
being finished. And I was myplan all along as part of sort
of my long term downsizingstrategy, because that's the
(05:28):
other thing is that I didn'thave an expectation that I'd be
able to quit my job and continueto live the same lifestyle I
live before, I knew I was goingto have to make a few changes
and downsize a little bit. And Ihad made this plan a long time
ago, because I bought the condobefore they even put shovels in
the ground, you know, four orfive years ago. So I knew that
like this was part of an ongoingplan of what I was going to do.
(05:52):
So that's what I would say like,for me, it's having that plan
and being able to see thenumbers in front of me and know
that I'm not going to bedestitute on the street, or
money coming in and all of that.
So, as we know, with a pandemic,I don't know if it was the same
where you live. But where I livein Toronto, that real estate
(06:13):
market is insane.
Jamie Stephens (06:15):
Yes. How's the same sense?
Lesley Taylor (06:19):
Here, it's like that caught the price of
housing, took an initial dip. Atthe very beginning of the
pandemic, I had a friend whosold her house, and she didn't
get as much for it as she washoping to get for it. But within
a month, all of a sudden, thedemand went through the roof for
houses. And so I started workingon my house, it's was an old
house, it was almost 100 yearsold. So it needed a lot of work.
(06:40):
And so all that time that Iwasn't working or doing
anything, and we were all lockeddown. I just spent a lot of time
I painted everything, I repairedthings, I put a new roof on them
on that knee, but I hiredsomeone to put a new roof on the
house and a new H vac system andall kinds of stuff, and put my
house on the market inSeptember. So right after Labor
(07:01):
Day, and I got more money for myhouse than I ever in my wildest
dreams ever expected to get. Andso that gave me that little bit
of a cushion. And then I movedinto my condo about six months
later. So I lived in anapartment short term in between
selling the house and moving inmoving into the condo, but then
(07:21):
we still had a whole other yearhere in Ontario of locked down,
like a lot of things were lockeddown and things were not back to
normal. You know, so therewasn't a lot of there wasn't a
lot more that I could do. In themeantime, I took a course for
entrepreneurs. And I think thatwas the same course that you
(07:42):
took. And in the first one, thiswas in probably the fall of
2020. And one of the assignmentswas to create a podcast episode
as like podcast episode, like,why would I do that? And so I
did it because it was theassignment for the course. And I
like
Jamie Stephens (08:00):
I'm checking the boxes. Okay, exactly, yeah,
Lesley Taylor (08:03):
I'm a good student, I'll do all the
assignments that are, you know,all the things that are assigned
to me. And, and I found that Iloved it. So I started
podcasting in January of 2021.
And I did about nine episodes.
And then I took a little bit ofa break. And then I came back
and did another seven episodes,and then took the podcasting
(08:23):
course in the fall of 2021. Yes.
And that's the one that youtook. Okay, so I took a course
with Kathy in the fall of 2020,then came back and did in the
podcasting specific course, inthe fall of 2021. And then
that's when I started to pivotand change the nature of the
podcast now, because before thepodcast was more about helping
(08:45):
people cook with whatever randomingredients they had in their
fridge or their pantry. So Iwould like talk to people over
zoom, because I couldn't meetthem in person. And I would say,
Okay, tell me what's in yourfridge and I say, Okay, you have
this and this and this, here'swhat you're going to make for
dinner. And then they would makethat thing and they would send
me a photo of what they made.
(09:06):
And I would post that onInstagram. And that was what my
show was about. But I thoughtyou know, I kind of want to
change and broaden. So as Isaid, I did nine episodes, then
took a break, and then did sevenmore episodes. Those seven
episodes I did were about wine.
And I got a lot of really greatfeedback from people that they
loved the episodes about wine,so I thought, Well, why don't I
(09:27):
just broaden and expand the,like the subject matter of the
podcast, and talk about food,wine, cooking, baking, some of
it would be me alone. And someof it would be interviewing
guests. I actually have to saythat I much prefer interviewing
guests to just talking on myown. Yeah. I like to have people
(09:49):
to you know, riff off and stuff.
Right, right. So yeah, so Istarted doing that and now I
just like five minutes ago. I'llfinish editing episode 19 of
season two, I never would havethought that I'd have this many
episodes going as of now. Soyeah, so that's what I've been
(10:11):
doing. And then like I said, Ijust started a job this week
working in a cookware store. AndI'm really excited about that.
Jamie Stephens (10:20):
That's awesome.
So you need to like work out adeal with your new cookwares
store about being your sponsorsfor your podcast.
Lesley Taylor (10:31):
Right? I don't have any. So yeah, that's the
other thing I should say aboutthe podcast is I have no
sponsors. I don't make anymoney. Oh, yeah, I
Jamie Stephens (10:38):
don't either.
No. Yeah, cuz I mean, the
Lesley Taylor (10:41):
other thing is like the way like I use anchor
as my podcasting platform, andanchor has a monetization option
if you're in the States, but itdoesn't apply if you're outside
of the US because you have tohave a social security number.
So I can't monetize throughanchor. I don't know if there's
any other way of monetizing. Andpart of that, too, is I don't
(11:01):
know if I want like random ads,or things that I don't maybe
believe in and I'm like, Oh,here's an ad for Hemorrhoid
Cream. My podcast about food.
I'm like, No, I don't want thatad on my
Jamie Stephens (11:12):
right. Right.
Lesley Taylor (11:13):
So yeah, so being a little bit of a control freak.
I'm like, I don't know if Iwould want to have just random
ads on my podcast. So I haven'tmonetized it yet. But yeah,
maybe a sponsor? Who knows?
Jamie Stephens (11:26):
Yeah. So what is what is your? I mean, if we can
just talk freely, if that's okaywith you? Sure. Yeah, your
fellow podcaster. Here, youknow, what is? What are your
plans for the podcast and kindof growing that? And do you have
plans to eventually monetize? Orhave you thought about it? Or is
it just for fun right now?
Lesley Taylor (11:47):
Right now, it's just for fun. I haven't thought
too much about it. I thinkbefore I started working. I had
a lot more free time. And Ithought, well, I could use it as
a way of potentially gettingclients, I did do some catering
jobs. I did a sit down dinnerfor a friend and seven of her
(12:08):
friends or six of her friends.
So a sit down dinner for sevenpeople in the summer of 2021. I
also did a more of a barbecuestyle, like buffet style
barbecue for about 15 people foranother friend. I bake cakes on
condition for people where youknow, they said, Hey, I need a
cake for this occasion. Can youdo that? So I've done a little
bit of that. But that doesn'tpay the bills, right. And I can
(12:30):
only do so much in my ownkitchen. At the time that I was
doing a lot of my initialcatering I didn't have a pet and
I have a cat now, so I can'treally cook in my kitchen with
the pet in here. Like it's justnot, you know, he just likes to
jump up on top of things andstuff. I'm like, no. So I
(12:50):
actually did rent a commercialkitchen space over the holidays
because I was cooking some meatpies. So I grew up in Montreal,
which is a French Canadianprovince and province of Quebec.
And even though I'm not FrenchCanadian, but lots of French
Canadian influences in ourcooking. And one of the
(13:11):
traditional holiday meals atChristmas is something called
tortilla which is a spiced meatpie. So it's you know, pork and
beef and all kinds of like warmspices like cloves, and cinnamon
and nutmeg and thyme and thingslike that in it. So I had taken
orders for I think I made about14 or 16 pies. So I rented out a
(13:36):
commercial kitchen Adaline isn'tactually
Jamie Stephens (13:42):
like a pie like in a pie shell.
Lesley Taylor (13:44):
And yeah, it's a full size meat pie. You can make
little ones as well.
Jamie Stephens (13:48):
I was thinking like the little empanadas or
something No, no, I
Lesley Taylor (13:51):
mean, you could make them that way too. But I
made like full size, you know,nine inch pies top crust, bottom
crust with this, you know,savory meat filling inside. And
I knew I wasn't gonna be able todo it here in my condo. So I
rented a commercial kitchen. Sothere's a church, not far from
me, where I volunteer cookingonce a week. They have like
(14:16):
their community lunch. And so Icook every Wednesday and then
they serve the lunch onThursdays to just any member of
the community who wants to comein and have some lunch. And so I
started cooking there back inDecember. And then I asked him I
said, Oh, do you ever rent outthe kitchen because this
beautiful commercial kitchenlike it's fantastic. And they
(14:36):
said oh yeah, we rent the spaceout if you're interested. So I
rented the space from them and,and made like I said, I think it
took me three or four days intotal to make 16 meat pies. 16
tortillas.
Jamie Stephens (14:52):
Gotcha. Yeah, so
Lesley Taylor (14:56):
that's what I did like just for, you know, to keep
myself dizzy because I wasn'tworking. But now that I'm
working, I'm like, oh god, I'vegot to get podcast episodes out.
How am I going to find the timeto get an episode out if I'm
working, you know, four or fivedays a week, so it's a little
bit more challenging now. So,
Jamie Stephens (15:15):
yeah. So with your, are you doing your own
editing? And all of that sort ofstuff is that?
Lesley Taylor (15:21):
Yeah, I'm a one person show. So I've had people
reach out to me saying, youknow, oh, we can do this for
you. And this view and thisview, I'm like, well, that's
really nice, but I don't haveany money. You know, I don't
have any money to pay anybody todo anything. And it's been a
really good learning experience.
You know, I've learned somebasic editing. I've also learned
that you don't really have toedit all that much. Sometimes
(15:42):
the arms and ahhs and the littlevocal miscues and things that
people make, just make it kindof sound a little bit more
interesting and natural. So I'vekind of given up on using like
Audacity to try and edit toomuch. I just try and go with the
raw, the raw feed, and I willtake a few things out here and
(16:05):
there. But mostly, I just kindof record an intro record an
outro. And then just the middlesection is the interview that I
did with whoever I spoke withthat week. Yeah. What about you?
How do you what's your sort ofapproach and how you're doing
it?
Jamie Stephens (16:23):
Yes, to all of that, I just recently hired a
podcast editor that kind of doesa lot of the technical work for
me. So I just kind of send itover and then have it done. And
it's just magic. I mean, I stillhave to record the end, like the
intro and outro. But other thanthat, like, I don't have to
(16:45):
touch it anymore. And the hoursthat I was spending on it. I
mean, it's definitely worth mytime. So worth the money. So,
yeah, but yeah, no, I did it fora long time to where it was just
like, Okay, I'm the bottleneck.
And this is like, I gotta like,I think it's good whenever you
learn how to do something. Soyou have that knowledge base.
(17:08):
And then as soon as you have theability to kind of hand that
off, if you I mean, it's justlike it changes my whole week,
because I don't have that likealbatross over my head, you
know, to where it's like, God, Igotta get this done. I've got to
get a speaking up. I've got oneto record, but an outro to
record. But yeah, so it's like,these sorts of things that just
(17:31):
kind of can weigh on youeventually. But
Lesley Taylor (17:35):
yeah, the thing that I find the most challenging
is, is the finding, findingguests and scheduling and
getting people like, Oh, God,who am I going to talk to you
this week. And I try and do manyin advance, like, I'll do like
three or four. And then I'm notsort of racing to get one out.
Because I do I release anepisode every week. So every
(17:58):
Friday morning at 6am, a newepisode comes out. So I'm almost
finished this week's episode, Ijust have to put I'm just
writing the show notes. Rightnow. And, and but the rest of it
is done. And the lucky thingabout this one, so I also have
limited my episodes to about 30minutes, sometimes I'll go up to
40 sometimes could be 24minutes, but it's kind of in
(18:22):
that like, I'm never going to anhour that's just not where I
see. You know, my where mytalents are where my audience
really wants me to be. I think ahalf hour is like the perfect
length for for my podcast. Butthe the episode that I'm
releasing this week is actuallypart two of a conversation
(18:43):
because I started talking withmy best friend, we were talking
about wine, and we just went onand on and on and on and on. And
now I have three episodes, maybelike four episodes worth of
worth of content, that all Ihave to do is like break it up
into chunks and add an intro andan outro to each one and I can
publish it. So which is helpfulbecause I'm going to be really
(19:04):
busy in the next few weeks withthis new job and actually
haven't another part time job aswell, that I signed up for
before I found out about thiscooking store job. I'm going to
be working for the month of May.
We're having an election here inOntario in on June 2. And so I
am working for elections Ontariotraining people to be election
(19:27):
workers. So all those people whosit at the polls who helped
people cast their ballots andall of that, I'm going to be
training all those people. Sobetween that job and the new
cook store job, I'm going to besuper busy. And I'm not going to
really have a lot of time to beinterviewing people. So I may
after say 20 or 21 episodes ofthis season have to take a
(19:47):
little break until things kindof calmed down a bit.
Jamie Stephens (19:53):
Yeah, yeah, I was thinking I'd also be
interesting too, if you likejust strike up comedy stations
with people that come into thecooking store. And, you know,
it's like that could be a wholeseries of like, well, what's for
dinner? What is your favoritething to make in this kind of
pan? Or what's the you know, Imean, just right. All those
(20:13):
little tidbits from people. Butyeah, I'd
Lesley Taylor (20:17):
have to ask my new boss about that store. So I
can't just sort of randomly likeinterview all their customers
and you know, to use on mypodcast, but yeah, be an
interesting, definitelyinteresting thing. I've heard.
There's another podcast Ilistened to quite regularly.
Neil past reacher is, he's anauthor, and he has a podcast
(20:37):
called three books. And everyepisode, he speaks to someone,
and it could be like, somerandom person on the street, or
it could be some like reallyfamous person, like he's
interviewed Brene Brown, andhe's interviewed Adam Grant and
other people who are like, youknow, super popular about their
three most formative books. Buta lot of times like he like
(20:58):
there was an episode you did acouple of weeks ago, where he
was in a bookstore with a guywho's owned a bookstore for 30
years talking to him aboutbooks. But as random customers
would come in, he would stop andhe talked to the customers. And
he'd ask them, oh, what book areyou coming in looking for? And
what's your favorite book ofyours? And why do you like this
book, and it was very kind of onthe fly, and really kind of
(21:18):
cool. So along the same lines ofwhat you were just suggesting,
of like, introducing people asthey come in to buy some new
piece of cookware, why are youbuying that? And what are you
going to make? And what's yourfavorite food to cook? And
because I just love talkingabout food and cooking and wine
and stuff? I can talk about itall day.
Jamie Stephens (21:33):
Yeah, you know, and I think it's, if there's
still people that are walkinginto stores to buy that those
people probably wantconversation. I mean, like,
otherwise, it's just ordered onAmazon or whatever. You know, I
mean, it's just like, there'sstill that whole connection that
I think a lot of us didn'trealize we were so dependent on
(21:56):
until the pandemic. I mean,that's
Lesley Taylor (21:58):
yeah, that's a big thing. Like, like I said, I
just started this week. And soin the three days that I've
been, there are two daysactually, tomorrow's my third
day, in the two days that I'vebeen there the number of people
who come in who do they really,they want to ask questions about
the products, they want tounderstand the difference
between, you know, this Dutchoven and that Dutch oven, why is
(22:18):
this one $100. And this one's$500. And like, what's the
difference between these twoitems, and where they could
literally go online on Amazonand just order that product, but
they if you're going to spendthat kind of money on something,
you kind of want to talk tosomebody about it, you don't
want to just you know, unlessyou already know what you want,
and you're just going to spendthe money and buy it. But a lot
(22:39):
of people, you know, they'rethey're a bit more thoughtful
about what they're spendingtheir money on. And so they want
to maybe compare the differentproducts that are there, and
they want someone who'sknowledgeable, to be able to
help them understand what thoseproducts are. And yeah, I think
also people miss talking toother people. This talking to
strangers. Yeah.
Jamie Stephens (23:02):
So how would you compare like how you feel about
your days now, with this new jobwith your podcast, with
everything that's happening,versus three or four years ago,
when you were getting up to goto work at corporate? Like, can
(23:23):
you articulate that differenceof where things are?
Lesley Taylor (23:28):
Yeah, I think part of it is, it's nice to just
be able to get up when I want toget up, I don't have to, I mean,
I do set an alarm, because mybedroom is really dark. And I
might not wake up otherwise. Butoh, my cat would wake me up,
because he would want to be fed.
But it's seems like more of mytime is my own now, as opposed
(23:49):
to working according to somebodyelse's clock. That said, I mean,
I have a shift that I'm working,I have to be at work at a
certain time and stay till acertain time. So obviously,
there's a little bit of thatthere. But there's so much more
variety in the day. The otherthing, and this is actually kind
of an interesting thing thatmight resonate with people is
(24:10):
the concept of emotional labor.
And when I was working in mycorporate job, a lot of the work
I did was would sort of fallinto the category of project
management. So I had theseprojects that were ongoing for
weeks and weeks and weeks, andsometimes months and months that
had different stages to them.
And you know, you had to getcertain stakeholders on board.
(24:32):
And so every day, you're likeworking on this project over and
over and over again. And then itlaunches and then you know,
you've got to follow up on it.
And then there's another part ofthe project that launches and
there's a lot of balls you'rehaving to keep in the air all
the time. And so your brainsalways like oh my god, this
thing and this thing and thisother thing, plus fitting that
(24:54):
in with your life outside ofwork. And so when I stopped
working Full Time, and you know,it's funny people are well
meaning, and a lot of them wouldsay things like, Oh, it's so
exciting, you can start your ownbusiness, you could open a
bakery, or you could start acatering company, or you could
do this, you could do that. AndI'm like, You know what, I don't
want to, I don't want to be aboss, I don't want to have to
(25:18):
run my own business. I don'twant the emotional labor, of
having to, you know, drum upbusiness and market myself and,
you know, manage my books andfile corporate taxes and or
business taxes and things like,I don't want to do any of that.
I did all that kind of stuff.
When I was working in thecorporate world, I want to go to
(25:39):
a job where I can show up, dothe work that's assigned to me
that day, and then go home, andthen
Unknown (25:46):
leave it all there, leave it all there.
Lesley Taylor (25:49):
And so I didn't want to open my own cookware
store. But I'm totally happy tobe working in somebody else's
cookware store. And I'll treatit like it's my own store, I
will give it everything that Ihave. But when the door closes
at the end of the night, and Igo home, I don't have to think
about it anymore. It's not mine,you know. And so, and I think
(26:09):
especially for women, becausethe emotional labor that we have
to keep all these balls in theair. In my case, I don't have
children. But I had an agingmother who had a lot of needs, I
had another family member, myuncle who could not really take
care of himself either, and hedidn't have any children. So I
was taking care of him. So youknow, taking care of my mother
(26:32):
taking care of my uncle. Plusthe, you know, my corporate job
that I was doing, it was a lotof balls to keep in the air, and
it was very draining. And soI've just been, that's the one
thing about the pandemic I'mkind of thankful of, is it gave
me a chance to just chill and donothing and not have to worry
about anyone but myself for achange. And that I think a lot
(26:57):
of women who, you know, theytalk about the sandwich
generation, right, where you'vegot your kids and you've got
your parents, well, I just hadit on the one side, I had, like,
my mother and my uncle who, youknow, they were very high need,
they, you know, were basicallybedridden, and they couldn't
really take care of themselvesand, you know, had to find homes
for them and caregivers for themand that type of thing. So not
(27:17):
to mention, moving them out oftheir various houses and
apartments several times to intodifferent care facilities, like
coordinating all of that, youknow, with the help obviously,
of other people in my family,but it's a lot to take on. And,
and I was just exhausted by bythat time. So by the time
November of 2019 came around, Iwas like, You know what, I am
(27:41):
just done. And I was ready to tohand in my my notice of
retirement.
Jamie Stephens (27:48):
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, that's, that's a whole lot
of responsibility and a wholelot to just juggle all of the
time. So,
Lesley Taylor (28:00):
I mean, so there's really a lot, there's
something to be said for nothaving a job where you're the
boss. Yeah. You know, Oh, yeah.
Jamie Stephens (28:08):
Like you don't get into entrepreneurship
because you want something easy.
Lesley Taylor (28:13):
Exactly. Exactly.
Like it's, it's a lot of work.
And you know, what, if I were 10or 15 years younger, I would
probably have wanted to do that.
And because I knew that I had,it would be a lot of hard work
at the beginning and, and doinga whole bunch of stuff I'd never
done before and, and all ofthat. But knowing that once you
kind of got into a groove, thenmaybe the business would sort of
(28:34):
not that it would work on itsown or anything. But it wouldn't
maybe require as muchmaintenance after you kind of
after the first year or so ortwo years of starting up a
business. And then you kind ofget your footing a little bit.
But you know, at my age, I'm 58I'm kind of like, I don't know
what I want to do that. But Idon't want to retire either,
(28:57):
like retire and never doanything. Oh my god, I would be
so bored. Like, I want to be outI want to be talking to people I
want to be interacting withpeople, I want to have some type
of purpose. And so this was areally good, like a good
compromise in that I could dosomething I love but not worry
about being in charge. I'm happyto not be in charge.
Jamie Stephens (29:20):
My husband used to laugh at me because like
right now podcasting is like myfavorite thing to do. I mean,
it's just I feel really blessedthat this is I mean talking to
women and hearing their storiesand highlighting them. I mean,
like that's just really specialto me before this, so like my
favorite job like no lie waswhen I was 19 and I was working
(29:41):
as like a coffee barista inslash information desk for like
a surgical center. And so it wasjust like that opportunity to
not have the responsibility thatI've had my whole life, you
know, to where I could just Justsit there and talk to people as
(30:01):
they came in, and these littleold people that are just trying
to find their doctor, you know,and I can brighten their day
with some coffee. I mean, it'sjust like, sometimes it's just
the little things that can helpyou just kind of put things
into, too into perspective andbe like, Okay, I can lay all
this other stuff down, and itdoesn't have to be so heavy.
Yeah, if I can just,
Lesley Taylor (30:23):
you're bringing a little bit of joy into people's
lives. It's like, here's acoffee, you know. And even if
they like you said, they justwant to have like, especially
older people, they just want tohave a little chit chat or
something like that. And, youknow, having somebody to talk to
and I can't honestly say that Ican think of a job where I,
where I loved it like thatbefore. Because I didn't have
(30:46):
when I was younger, I didn'treally have the perspective, I
think I was more on the track ofneeding to achieve, you know, I
want that next job, I want thatmore important job, I want more
money, I want more, you know,status, or, you know, whatever.
Jamie Stephens (31:03):
Well, that was probably one of the last jobs I
had before I kind of entered inthat whole mentality of just go
Go, go, go go. And then you'relike, Okay, I'm on this
corporate ladder, but like, am Ieven having fun? And like, do I
like what's happening here? Ijust feel gross every day. And I
don't, you know, I mean, there'sjust that kind of reckoning, you
(31:24):
have to eventually come withyourself to where it's just
like, oh, like, I'm doing allthe things unchecking the boxes,
but I'm done. Like this, thisdoesn't feel good anymore.
Lesley Taylor (31:36):
Yeah, yeah. And you know, there's also a little
bit of ever, I guess, I don'tknow if reckoning is really the
right word. But there's arealization that you come to at
a certain point where you'relike, I don't know that I want
to contribute to this profitmaking company anymore. If
(31:58):
they're not, maybe running theirbusiness in a way that I feel
good about, like, I don't know,I don't want to disparage where
I work. Because, you know, thepeople I worked with, were
fantastic. But you know, whatbanks job is to make money,
like, that's their job, like,they're trying to make money,
they're trying to do whateverthey can to make money, and they
make money off the backs oftheir customers, right. So I'm
(32:22):
kind of like, oh, you know,working in banking, afforded me
a great lifestyle, I was able tobuy a house on my own, I bought
a condo on my own, I bought ahouse on my own sold, that house
bought another condo like, Iwould never have been able to do
any of those things, had I notsort of, quote unquote, sold my
(32:42):
soul to the devil for as long asI did. Because, you know, a lot
of people follow their dream andfollow their bliss and never had
more than two nickels to rubtogether would never have been
able to do the things that Idid, because they just weren't
earning the kind of money that Iwas earning. And so I fully
recognize that the lifestylethat I have today, as even
(33:04):
though it's much pared down fromwhat it was before, is because
of the work that I did all thoseyears working in a bank, you
know, and some people might saythat's like, morally
reprehensible, that I wasworking in that type of
organization and making all thatmoney. And now I get to live off
the, you know, the, the fruitsof all of that. Yeah, so there's
(33:28):
definitely a moral. I don'tknow, it's like, not a moral
conundrum. But there'sdefinitely a moral aspect to it,
that I think about it and go,you know, so I don't want to sit
here and say, Do as I did, and,you know, your life will be
fantastic. Because, you know,I'm sure I contributed to a lot
(33:48):
of, you know, just by workingfor a bank, you know,
contributed to a lot of thethings that cause other people
problems in their lives, right.
Jamie Stephens (34:00):
I mean, I think that's really generous of you to
take that on. But
Lesley Taylor (34:05):
you're, yeah, I don't know that I'm not taking
it on. Like, I'm not wearing it,like, Oh, God, I don't want to
make this about me in terms oflike, oh, I, you know, sold my
soul to the devil for years.
Like, you know, I'm such a, youknow, noble person or whatever.
Like, it's not about that it's,or it's just about being
realistic about the privilegethat I have. And that the
(34:25):
lifestyle that I have now, Imean, I don't live an
extravagant lifestyle, but I canafford to work for minimum wage,
you know, and still put a decentroof over my head because of
what I did for the previous 30
Jamie Stephens (34:43):
reps. Right?
Right. You have options becauseof Yes,
Lesley Taylor (34:47):
and not everybody has the same options that I
have. And not everybodynecessarily had the same choices
that I had. And, you know, likeyears ago, I would have said,
well Oh, your choice was totravel the world after
university. And my choice was togo work in the corporate world.
And you know, but maybe, youknow, they didn't have that
(35:12):
choice, right. So I don't like Idon't want to make it like, I
made better choices than otherpeople did. I made the choices
that worked for me. And, and soand it worked out for me. And
I'm very grateful for that. AndI'm not I don't want anybody to
think that if they didn't makethe choices that I made, that
(35:33):
their choices were wrong or bad,right? Oh, yeah.
Jamie Stephens (35:36):
I mean, we're all on our own. Our own journey,
our own path, our own, I mean,even within like the same
families, and all of that. Imean, everybody makes different
choices and how it affects Imean, I think it's, it's really
interesting to kind of sit downand kind of wonder, you know,
just be like, I wonder if, like,during this point, if I would
(35:58):
have done X, like how that wouldhave impacted things, or, you
know, I kinda like to do that.
But,
Lesley Taylor (36:04):
yeah, well, there's I don't know if you've
heard, he's sort of making thepodcast rounds right now, a man
named Daniel Pink. And he has abook called The Power of regret.
And so I've heard him on severalpodcasts recently, talking about
the different kinds of regretsthat people have. And he kind of
breaks them into fourcategories. And the one that
(36:24):
really resonated for me was themost people actually, one of the
things he says is that whenpeople are younger, in their
20s, their regrets are 50, about50%, regretting things they did
and 50%, regretting things theydidn't do. But as we get older,
so they talk to people like intheir 50s and 60s, most of their
(36:46):
regrets, like 75% of theirregrets are things they didn't
do, not the things that theydid. And so having these regrets
over, not taking a chance notbeing bold, not, you know,
telling the cute person that yousaw at the coffee shop that, you
know, you were interested in,Hey, would you like to grab a
(37:07):
coffee sometime or somethinglike that? Those are the kinds
of regrets that people have ornot studying abroad in their
junior year of university or,you know, whatever. Those are
the kinds of regrets that peoplehave more so as they get older
is this idea that the chancesthe risks they didn't take when
they were younger. And so I dohave some of those regrets. But
(37:29):
then I look at, like, I think Ididn't travel when I was
younger, I didn't really traveltill I was well into my 40s. And
then I started going places, butup until then, I just never had
the money really to travel. Butso it's an interesting thing to
think about is like, you know,what are the kinds of regrets
that you might have? If youdon't take a chance. But in my
(37:54):
case, and as I said, at the verybeginning, I needed to see all
the numbers on paper to knowwhat that taking that risk of
quitting my full time lucrativebanking job would have, and how
long until I was destitute? Youknow, until I didn't have any
money and was like, you know,begging people to sleep on their
(38:14):
couch. And so I knew what thatnumber was. And I knew how long
I was going to have to or atleast at the time, I thought I
did but then of course COVIDchanged everything. But yeah, so
I like to take measured chancesnot I'm not a leap off a cliff
kind of person. I'm definitely aI'm more cautious planned out.
(38:38):
taker of chances. Gotcha.
Jamie Stephens (38:41):
So do you regret leaving corporate? No, no, that
was fascinating. Yeah.
Lesley Taylor (38:48):
No, I don't regret it at all. I you know,
and everyone will probably saythis. I missed the people. But
you know, the people I liked,genuinely liked I still tasted
keep in touch with. Yeah, right.
And so, you know, some of them Isee more frequently than others.
And like I said, you know, thepandemic kind of changed
everything. I probably wouldhave seen people more often. Had
I had that not happened. But Istill keep in touch with a
(39:12):
handful of people. I used towork with people I liked. And,
you know, I'll continue to likeI don't see them as often,
obviously, as I did when Iworked there, but that's really
the only part that I miss.
Jamie Stephens (39:25):
Yeah. All right, Leslie, as we wrap up, go ahead
and tell people where they canfind more about you more about
your podcasts and all otherthings.
Lesley Taylor (39:35):
Yes. So my podcast is called no recipe
required. It's available on Ithink all the podcasting or at
least all the popular podcastingplatforms you can get on Apple,
Spotify, Google podcasts, etc.
And it's it comes out everyFriday at 6am. Eastern time. So
that's one way I'm on Instagramat no recipe required.ca Make
(39:56):
sure you put the dot c And therebecause there is another no
recipe required on Instagram. Idon't know how active they are.
But there is another account. Soit's no recipe required.ca. And
also on Facebook, I have aFacebook group, I have a
Facebook page called no reciperequired. Sometimes it's hard to
find. But I do have a Facebookgroup called the no recipe
(40:21):
required challenge. And that'swhere people post their ideas of
things that they're making. Itry and encourage people to make
things without following therecipe and not sharing recipes
from other websites and stuff.
But just like what's some randomthing you made? And or people
(40:41):
might actually even askquestions to say, Hey, I've got
this, this, this and this in myfridge. What are some ideas of
what I can make with that? Sothat's kind of what the
community is about. So it's abit more of an interactive
Facebook page. So if you justsearch for the no recipe
required podcast on Facebook,you can find that as well.
Jamie Stephens (40:58):
Awesome. All right. Well, thank you so much.
Lesley Taylor (41:01):
You're very welcome. It was pleasure talking
to you. All right,
Jamie Stephens (41:03):
you too. Let me stop recording
Welcome back to a another episode of Breaking Up
with Corporate today. I haveLesley Taylor here. And Lesley,
why don't you go ahead and justgive us a little bit of your
background and tell us whatyou're actually tell us what
you're doing today. And thenwe'll kind of get back into your
well back into the backstory alittle bit. Okay, well,
Lesley Taylor (00:24):
I'm coming to you from Toronto, where we're
finally starting to get a littlebit of warmer weather, but it's
still kind of on the chillyside. And I just this week
started a new job in retail,working in a cooking store. And
some, some people might say, Oh,well, yeah, big deal with the
(00:44):
store. But cooking is mypassion. My podcast called no
recipe required is all aboutfood and wine and cooking and
baking. And I love to cook andbake. So it's like I'm living in
Nirvana in this cookware storethat's got all the cool
appliances and little gadgetsand all the tools that you need
for cooking and baking andcookbooks. And like all kinds of
(01:06):
stuff like that. So I'm like, ina total happy place right now.
Jamie Stephens (01:09):
I love that. I mean, I think part of just kind
of the journey that we all gothrough is really realizing that
I get to define what successlooks like, for me, you know,
and it may not make sense toother people, it may not make,
you know, logical sense onpaper, or whatever, you know,
it's like, because I know youcame from a banking background
(01:31):
and that sort of thing. And it'sjust like, how did you get that
courage to really just just notgive a shit, whatever, what
other people thought about whatyou were doing?
Lesley Taylor (01:42):
Well, I mean, part of it comes with age,
right? Well, once you get over50, you the amount of like, you
know, cares, you have to give, Idon't know if you're allowed to
swear on this podcast, but youknow, the amount of cares that
you have left to give or is likeminuscule. And so and that can
be both a bonus, and can also bea bit of a downfall. Because if
(02:06):
you speak your mind too often,you start to become maybe a
liability or a little bitexpendable, because they know
they can't really control youthe way they thought they could.
And so you can only speak up sooften unless you have an exit
plan, right. And I can't saythat I was really like speaking
out or anything like that. ButI, I knew in the summer of 2019,
(02:27):
that I was really starting tonot enjoy the work that I was
doing anymore. So even though Iwas in banking, I wasn't
actually doing banking typework, I worked in more of a
consulting role. I worked withmanagers to help them improve
their business processes, I dida lot of training and
development. So I was teachingpeople how to improve their
businesses, that kind of thing.
So I was kind of working behindthe scenes, I wasn't in a bank
(02:49):
branch or anything like that.
But I just kind of was losingthe love for it. And I did love
it at for a time. But you know,I had a lot of family things
come up in 2019. So my mumpassed away in the summer of
2019. And then six weeks later,my cat passed away, he was only
10. And so it was just a lot ofchange. And I just it kind of
(03:15):
deflated me. And it's sort oflike not the the will to put up
with BS in business. I was like,You know what, I just don't want
to deal with any of thisanymore. So I'm a planner, I've
always been a planner, and Ilove numbers and spreadsheets.
And so I put a financial plantogether. And I looked at how
(03:36):
much money I had saved, how muchwas in my retirement plan, how
much money I would get as apension. Because luckily, due to
the number of years I'd workedin the bank and my age because
that you had to be over 55. Andyou had to have at least 15
years of service, to get apension and benefits and all of
that. So I knew that I was ongood footing. And I had a little
(03:58):
bit of money that would becoming in even after I retired.
But I still needed to run thenumber. So based on how much
money I had, in my bank accounthow much I had in my retirement
account, how long could I affordto live? Before I had to find
another job knowing that, youknow, I might not be able to
find a job doing something thatI love to do. My original
(04:20):
intention was oh, I'm gonna getinto the food industry because I
love to cook and I love to bake.
And you know, I want to dosomething in there. So I put my
plan together and my financialplan and I knew I had about six
months or so of savings before Ireally had to start like
seriously looking for a job. Andso I retired February 1 of 2020.
And then the whole world shutdown a month later. So all those
(04:43):
plans that I had to try and youknow, take on a new career
because all the stores wereclosed and all the restaurants
were closed and like everythingthat I thought I wanted to do
and the whole food industrycompletely changed like every
chef out They had to pivot todoing something new servers all
found jobs doing other things,because there was just no work
(05:06):
available anymore. So I thought,Okay, well, what am I going to
do. And so I knew I was sellingmy house because I had prepared,
I bought a condo. And it wasabout a year and a bit away from
being finished. And I was myplan all along as part of sort
of my long term downsizingstrategy, because that's the
(05:28):
other thing is that I didn'thave an expectation that I'd be
able to quit my job and continueto live the same lifestyle I
live before, I knew I was goingto have to make a few changes
and downsize a little bit. And Ihad made this plan a long time
ago, because I bought the condobefore they even put shovels in
the ground, you know, four orfive years ago. So I knew that
like this was part of an ongoingplan of what I was going to do.
(05:52):
So that's what I would say like,for me, it's having that plan
and being able to see thenumbers in front of me and know
that I'm not going to bedestitute on the street, or
money coming in and all of that.
So, as we know, with a pandemic,I don't know if it was the same
where you live. But where I livein Toronto, that real estate
(06:13):
market is insane.
Jamie Stephens (06:15):
Yes. How's the same sense?
Lesley Taylor (06:19):
Here, it's like that caught the price of
housing, took an initial dip. Atthe very beginning of the
pandemic, I had a friend whosold her house, and she didn't
get as much for it as she washoping to get for it. But within
a month, all of a sudden, thedemand went through the roof for
houses. And so I started workingon my house, it's was an old
house, it was almost 100 yearsold. So it needed a lot of work.
(06:40):
And so all that time that Iwasn't working or doing
anything, and we were all lockeddown. I just spent a lot of time
I painted everything, I repairedthings, I put a new roof on them
on that knee, but I hiredsomeone to put a new roof on the
house and a new H vac system andall kinds of stuff, and put my
house on the market inSeptember. So right after Labor
(07:01):
Day, and I got more money for myhouse than I ever in my wildest
dreams ever expected to get. Andso that gave me that little bit
of a cushion. And then I movedinto my condo about six months
later. So I lived in anapartment short term in between
selling the house and moving inmoving into the condo, but then
(07:21):
we still had a whole other yearhere in Ontario of locked down,
like a lot of things were lockeddown and things were not back to
normal. You know, so therewasn't a lot of there wasn't a
lot more that I could do. In themeantime, I took a course for
entrepreneurs. And I think thatwas the same course that you
(07:42):
took. And in the first one, thiswas in probably the fall of
2020. And one of the assignmentswas to create a podcast episode
as like podcast episode, like,why would I do that? And so I
did it because it was theassignment for the course. And I
like
Jamie Stephens (08:00):
I'm checking the boxes. Okay, exactly, yeah,
Lesley Taylor (08:03):
I'm a good student, I'll do all the
assignments that are, you know,all the things that are assigned
to me. And, and I found that Iloved it. So I started
podcasting in January of 2021.
And I did about nine episodes.
And then I took a little bit ofa break. And then I came back
and did another seven episodes,and then took the podcasting
(08:23):
course in the fall of 2021. Yes.
And that's the one that youtook. Okay, so I took a course
with Kathy in the fall of 2020,then came back and did in the
podcasting specific course, inthe fall of 2021. And then
that's when I started to pivotand change the nature of the
podcast now, because before thepodcast was more about helping
(08:45):
people cook with whatever randomingredients they had in their
fridge or their pantry. So Iwould like talk to people over
zoom, because I couldn't meetthem in person. And I would say,
Okay, tell me what's in yourfridge and I say, Okay, you have
this and this and this, here'swhat you're going to make for
dinner. And then they would makethat thing and they would send
me a photo of what they made.
(09:06):
And I would post that onInstagram. And that was what my
show was about. But I thoughtyou know, I kind of want to
change and broaden. So as Isaid, I did nine episodes, then
took a break, and then did sevenmore episodes. Those seven
episodes I did were about wine.
And I got a lot of really greatfeedback from people that they
loved the episodes about wine,so I thought, Well, why don't I
(09:27):
just broaden and expand the,like the subject matter of the
podcast, and talk about food,wine, cooking, baking, some of
it would be me alone. And someof it would be interviewing
guests. I actually have to saythat I much prefer interviewing
guests to just talking on myown. Yeah. I like to have people
(09:49):
to you know, riff off and stuff.
Right, right. So yeah, so Istarted doing that and now I
just like five minutes ago. I'llfinish editing episode 19 of
season two, I never would havethought that I'd have this many
episodes going as of now. Soyeah, so that's what I've been
(10:11):
doing. And then like I said, Ijust started a job this week
working in a cookware store. AndI'm really excited about that.
Jamie Stephens (10:20):
That's awesome.
So you need to like work out adeal with your new cookwares
store about being your sponsorsfor your podcast.
Lesley Taylor (10:31):
Right? I don't have any. So yeah, that's the
other thing I should say aboutthe podcast is I have no
sponsors. I don't make anymoney. Oh, yeah, I
Jamie Stephens (10:38):
don't either.
No. Yeah, cuz I mean, the
Lesley Taylor (10:41):
other thing is like the way like I use anchor
as my podcasting platform, andanchor has a monetization option
if you're in the States, but itdoesn't apply if you're outside
of the US because you have tohave a social security number.
So I can't monetize throughanchor. I don't know if there's
any other way of monetizing. Andpart of that, too, is I don't
(11:01):
know if I want like random ads,or things that I don't maybe
believe in and I'm like, Oh,here's an ad for Hemorrhoid
Cream. My podcast about food.
I'm like, No, I don't want thatad on my
Jamie Stephens (11:12):
right. Right.
Lesley Taylor (11:13):
So yeah, so being a little bit of a control freak.
I'm like, I don't know if Iwould want to have just random
ads on my podcast. So I haven'tmonetized it yet. But yeah,
maybe a sponsor? Who knows?
Jamie Stephens (11:26):
Yeah. So what is what is your? I mean, if we can
just talk freely, if that's okaywith you? Sure. Yeah, your
fellow podcaster. Here, youknow, what is? What are your
plans for the podcast and kindof growing that? And do you have
plans to eventually monetize? Orhave you thought about it? Or is
it just for fun right now?
Lesley Taylor (11:47):
Right now, it's just for fun. I haven't thought
too much about it. I thinkbefore I started working. I had
a lot more free time. And Ithought, well, I could use it as
a way of potentially gettingclients, I did do some catering
jobs. I did a sit down dinnerfor a friend and seven of her
(12:08):
friends or six of her friends.
So a sit down dinner for sevenpeople in the summer of 2021. I
also did a more of a barbecuestyle, like buffet style
barbecue for about 15 people foranother friend. I bake cakes on
condition for people where youknow, they said, Hey, I need a
cake for this occasion. Can youdo that? So I've done a little
bit of that. But that doesn'tpay the bills, right. And I can
(12:30):
only do so much in my ownkitchen. At the time that I was
doing a lot of my initialcatering I didn't have a pet and
I have a cat now, so I can'treally cook in my kitchen with
the pet in here. Like it's justnot, you know, he just likes to
jump up on top of things andstuff. I'm like, no. So I
(12:50):
actually did rent a commercialkitchen space over the holidays
because I was cooking some meatpies. So I grew up in Montreal,
which is a French Canadianprovince and province of Quebec.
And even though I'm not FrenchCanadian, but lots of French
Canadian influences in ourcooking. And one of the
(13:11):
traditional holiday meals atChristmas is something called
tortilla which is a spiced meatpie. So it's you know, pork and
beef and all kinds of like warmspices like cloves, and cinnamon
and nutmeg and thyme and thingslike that in it. So I had taken
orders for I think I made about14 or 16 pies. So I rented out a
(13:36):
commercial kitchen Adaline isn'tactually
Jamie Stephens (13:42):
like a pie like in a pie shell.
Lesley Taylor (13:44):
And yeah, it's a full size meat pie. You can make
little ones as well.
Jamie Stephens (13:48):
I was thinking like the little empanadas or
something No, no, I
Lesley Taylor (13:51):
mean, you could make them that way too. But I
made like full size, you know,nine inch pies top crust, bottom
crust with this, you know,savory meat filling inside. And
I knew I wasn't gonna be able todo it here in my condo. So I
rented a commercial kitchen. Sothere's a church, not far from
me, where I volunteer cookingonce a week. They have like
(14:16):
their community lunch. And so Icook every Wednesday and then
they serve the lunch onThursdays to just any member of
the community who wants to comein and have some lunch. And so I
started cooking there back inDecember. And then I asked him I
said, Oh, do you ever rent outthe kitchen because this
beautiful commercial kitchenlike it's fantastic. And they
(14:36):
said oh yeah, we rent the spaceout if you're interested. So I
rented the space from them and,and made like I said, I think it
took me three or four days intotal to make 16 meat pies. 16
tortillas.
Jamie Stephens (14:52):
Gotcha. Yeah, so
Lesley Taylor (14:56):
that's what I did like just for, you know, to keep
myself dizzy because I wasn'tworking. But now that I'm
working, I'm like, oh god, I'vegot to get podcast episodes out.
How am I going to find the timeto get an episode out if I'm
working, you know, four or fivedays a week, so it's a little
bit more challenging now. So,
Jamie Stephens (15:15):
yeah. So with your, are you doing your own
editing? And all of that sort ofstuff is that?
Lesley Taylor (15:21):
Yeah, I'm a one person show. So I've had people
reach out to me saying, youknow, oh, we can do this for
you. And this view and thisview, I'm like, well, that's
really nice, but I don't haveany money. You know, I don't
have any money to pay anybody todo anything. And it's been a
really good learning experience.
You know, I've learned somebasic editing. I've also learned
that you don't really have toedit all that much. Sometimes
(15:42):
the arms and ahhs and the littlevocal miscues and things that
people make, just make it kindof sound a little bit more
interesting and natural. So I'vekind of given up on using like
Audacity to try and edit toomuch. I just try and go with the
raw, the raw feed, and I willtake a few things out here and
(16:05):
there. But mostly, I just kindof record an intro record an
outro. And then just the middlesection is the interview that I
did with whoever I spoke withthat week. Yeah. What about you?
How do you what's your sort ofapproach and how you're doing
it?
Jamie Stephens (16:23):
Yes, to all of that, I just recently hired a
podcast editor that kind of doesa lot of the technical work for
me. So I just kind of send itover and then have it done. And
it's just magic. I mean, I stillhave to record the end, like the
intro and outro. But other thanthat, like, I don't have to
(16:45):
touch it anymore. And the hoursthat I was spending on it. I
mean, it's definitely worth mytime. So worth the money. So,
yeah, but yeah, no, I did it fora long time to where it was just
like, Okay, I'm the bottleneck.
And this is like, I gotta like,I think it's good whenever you
learn how to do something. Soyou have that knowledge base.
(17:08):
And then as soon as you have theability to kind of hand that
off, if you I mean, it's justlike it changes my whole week,
because I don't have that likealbatross over my head, you
know, to where it's like, God, Igotta get this done. I've got to
get a speaking up. I've got oneto record, but an outro to
record. But yeah, so it's like,these sorts of things that just
(17:31):
kind of can weigh on youeventually. But
Lesley Taylor (17:35):
yeah, the thing that I find the most challenging
is, is the finding, findingguests and scheduling and
getting people like, Oh, God,who am I going to talk to you
this week. And I try and do manyin advance, like, I'll do like
three or four. And then I'm notsort of racing to get one out.
Because I do I release anepisode every week. So every
(17:58):
Friday morning at 6am, a newepisode comes out. So I'm almost
finished this week's episode, Ijust have to put I'm just
writing the show notes. Rightnow. And, and but the rest of it
is done. And the lucky thingabout this one, so I also have
limited my episodes to about 30minutes, sometimes I'll go up to
40 sometimes could be 24minutes, but it's kind of in
(18:22):
that like, I'm never going to anhour that's just not where I
see. You know, my where mytalents are where my audience
really wants me to be. I think ahalf hour is like the perfect
length for for my podcast. Butthe the episode that I'm
releasing this week is actuallypart two of a conversation
(18:43):
because I started talking withmy best friend, we were talking
about wine, and we just went onand on and on and on and on. And
now I have three episodes, maybelike four episodes worth of
worth of content, that all Ihave to do is like break it up
into chunks and add an intro andan outro to each one and I can
publish it. So which is helpfulbecause I'm going to be really
(19:04):
busy in the next few weeks withthis new job and actually
haven't another part time job aswell, that I signed up for
before I found out about thiscooking store job. I'm going to
be working for the month of May.
We're having an election here inOntario in on June 2. And so I
am working for elections Ontariotraining people to be election
(19:27):
workers. So all those people whosit at the polls who helped
people cast their ballots andall of that, I'm going to be
training all those people. Sobetween that job and the new
cook store job, I'm going to besuper busy. And I'm not going to
really have a lot of time to beinterviewing people. So I may
after say 20 or 21 episodes ofthis season have to take a
(19:47):
little break until things kindof calmed down a bit.
Jamie Stephens (19:53):
Yeah, yeah, I was thinking I'd also be
interesting too, if you likejust strike up comedy stations
with people that come into thecooking store. And, you know,
it's like that could be a wholeseries of like, well, what's for
dinner? What is your favoritething to make in this kind of
pan? Or what's the you know, Imean, just right. All those
(20:13):
little tidbits from people. Butyeah, I'd
Lesley Taylor (20:17):
have to ask my new boss about that store. So I
can't just sort of randomly likeinterview all their customers
and you know, to use on mypodcast, but yeah, be an
interesting, definitelyinteresting thing. I've heard.
There's another podcast Ilistened to quite regularly.
Neil past reacher is, he's anauthor, and he has a podcast
(20:37):
called three books. And everyepisode, he speaks to someone,
and it could be like, somerandom person on the street, or
it could be some like reallyfamous person, like he's
interviewed Brene Brown, andhe's interviewed Adam Grant and
other people who are like, youknow, super popular about their
three most formative books. Buta lot of times like he like
(20:58):
there was an episode you did acouple of weeks ago, where he
was in a bookstore with a guywho's owned a bookstore for 30
years talking to him aboutbooks. But as random customers
would come in, he would stop andhe talked to the customers. And
he'd ask them, oh, what book areyou coming in looking for? And
what's your favorite book ofyours? And why do you like this
book, and it was very kind of onthe fly, and really kind of
(21:18):
cool. So along the same lines ofwhat you were just suggesting,
of like, introducing people asthey come in to buy some new
piece of cookware, why are youbuying that? And what are you
going to make? And what's yourfavorite food to cook? And
because I just love talkingabout food and cooking and wine
and stuff? I can talk about itall day.
Jamie Stephens (21:33):
Yeah, you know, and I think it's, if there's
still people that are walkinginto stores to buy that those
people probably wantconversation. I mean, like,
otherwise, it's just ordered onAmazon or whatever. You know, I
mean, it's just like, there'sstill that whole connection that
I think a lot of us didn'trealize we were so dependent on
(21:56):
until the pandemic. I mean,that's
Lesley Taylor (21:58):
yeah, that's a big thing. Like, like I said, I
just started this week. And soin the three days that I've
been, there are two daysactually, tomorrow's my third
day, in the two days that I'vebeen there the number of people
who come in who do they really,they want to ask questions about
the products, they want tounderstand the difference
between, you know, this Dutchoven and that Dutch oven, why is
(22:18):
this one $100. And this one's$500. And like, what's the
difference between these twoitems, and where they could
literally go online on Amazonand just order that product, but
they if you're going to spendthat kind of money on something,
you kind of want to talk tosomebody about it, you don't
want to just you know, unlessyou already know what you want,
and you're just going to spendthe money and buy it. But a lot
(22:39):
of people, you know, they'rethey're a bit more thoughtful
about what they're spendingtheir money on. And so they want
to maybe compare the differentproducts that are there, and
they want someone who'sknowledgeable, to be able to
help them understand what thoseproducts are. And yeah, I think
also people miss talking toother people. This talking to
strangers. Yeah.
Jamie Stephens (23:02):
So how would you compare like how you feel about
your days now, with this new jobwith your podcast, with
everything that's happening,versus three or four years ago,
when you were getting up to goto work at corporate? Like, can
(23:23):
you articulate that differenceof where things are?
Lesley Taylor (23:28):
Yeah, I think part of it is, it's nice to just
be able to get up when I want toget up, I don't have to, I mean,
I do set an alarm, because mybedroom is really dark. And I
might not wake up otherwise. Butoh, my cat would wake me up,
because he would want to be fed.
But it's seems like more of mytime is my own now, as opposed
(23:49):
to working according to somebodyelse's clock. That said, I mean,
I have a shift that I'm working,I have to be at work at a
certain time and stay till acertain time. So obviously,
there's a little bit of thatthere. But there's so much more
variety in the day. The otherthing, and this is actually kind
of an interesting thing thatmight resonate with people is
(24:10):
the concept of emotional labor.
And when I was working in mycorporate job, a lot of the work
I did was would sort of fallinto the category of project
management. So I had theseprojects that were ongoing for
weeks and weeks and weeks, andsometimes months and months that
had different stages to them.
And you know, you had to getcertain stakeholders on board.
(24:32):
And so every day, you're likeworking on this project over and
over and over again. And then itlaunches and then you know,
you've got to follow up on it.
And then there's another part ofthe project that launches and
there's a lot of balls you'rehaving to keep in the air all
the time. And so your brainsalways like oh my god, this
thing and this thing and thisother thing, plus fitting that
(24:54):
in with your life outside ofwork. And so when I stopped
working Full Time, and you know,it's funny people are well
meaning, and a lot of them wouldsay things like, Oh, it's so
exciting, you can start your ownbusiness, you could open a
bakery, or you could start acatering company, or you could
do this, you could do that. AndI'm like, You know what, I don't
want to, I don't want to be aboss, I don't want to have to
(25:18):
run my own business. I don'twant the emotional labor, of
having to, you know, drum upbusiness and market myself and,
you know, manage my books andfile corporate taxes and or
business taxes and things like,I don't want to do any of that.
I did all that kind of stuff.
When I was working in thecorporate world, I want to go to
(25:39):
a job where I can show up, dothe work that's assigned to me
that day, and then go home, andthen
Unknown (25:46):
leave it all there, leave it all there.
Lesley Taylor (25:49):
And so I didn't want to open my own cookware
store. But I'm totally happy tobe working in somebody else's
cookware store. And I'll treatit like it's my own store, I
will give it everything that Ihave. But when the door closes
at the end of the night, and Igo home, I don't have to think
about it anymore. It's not mine,you know. And so, and I think
(26:09):
especially for women, becausethe emotional labor that we have
to keep all these balls in theair. In my case, I don't have
children. But I had an agingmother who had a lot of needs, I
had another family member, myuncle who could not really take
care of himself either, and hedidn't have any children. So I
was taking care of him. So youknow, taking care of my mother
(26:32):
taking care of my uncle. Plusthe, you know, my corporate job
that I was doing, it was a lotof balls to keep in the air, and
it was very draining. And soI've just been, that's the one
thing about the pandemic I'mkind of thankful of, is it gave
me a chance to just chill and donothing and not have to worry
about anyone but myself for achange. And that I think a lot
(26:57):
of women who, you know, theytalk about the sandwich
generation, right, where you'vegot your kids and you've got
your parents, well, I just hadit on the one side, I had, like,
my mother and my uncle who, youknow, they were very high need,
they, you know, were basicallybedridden, and they couldn't
really take care of themselvesand, you know, had to find homes
for them and caregivers for themand that type of thing. So not
(27:17):
to mention, moving them out oftheir various houses and
apartments several times to intodifferent care facilities, like
coordinating all of that, youknow, with the help obviously,
of other people in my family,but it's a lot to take on. And,
and I was just exhausted by bythat time. So by the time
November of 2019 came around, Iwas like, You know what, I am
(27:41):
just done. And I was ready to tohand in my my notice of
retirement.
Jamie Stephens (27:48):
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, that's, that's a whole lot
of responsibility and a wholelot to just juggle all of the
time. So,
Lesley Taylor (28:00):
I mean, so there's really a lot, there's
something to be said for nothaving a job where you're the
boss. Yeah. You know, Oh, yeah.
Jamie Stephens (28:08):
Like you don't get into entrepreneurship
because you want something easy.
Lesley Taylor (28:13):
Exactly. Exactly.
Like it's, it's a lot of work.
And you know, what, if I were 10or 15 years younger, I would
probably have wanted to do that.
And because I knew that I had,it would be a lot of hard work
at the beginning and, and doinga whole bunch of stuff I'd never
done before and, and all ofthat. But knowing that once you
kind of got into a groove, thenmaybe the business would sort of
(28:34):
not that it would work on itsown or anything. But it wouldn't
maybe require as muchmaintenance after you kind of
after the first year or so ortwo years of starting up a
business. And then you kind ofget your footing a little bit.
But you know, at my age, I'm 58I'm kind of like, I don't know
what I want to do that. But Idon't want to retire either,
(28:57):
like retire and never doanything. Oh my god, I would be
so bored. Like, I want to be outI want to be talking to people I
want to be interacting withpeople, I want to have some type
of purpose. And so this was areally good, like a good
compromise in that I could dosomething I love but not worry
about being in charge. I'm happyto not be in charge.
Jamie Stephens (29:20):
My husband used to laugh at me because like
right now podcasting is like myfavorite thing to do. I mean,
it's just I feel really blessedthat this is I mean talking to
women and hearing their storiesand highlighting them. I mean,
like that's just really specialto me before this, so like my
favorite job like no lie waswhen I was 19 and I was working
(29:41):
as like a coffee barista inslash information desk for like
a surgical center. And so it wasjust like that opportunity to
not have the responsibility thatI've had my whole life, you
know, to where I could just Justsit there and talk to people as
(30:01):
they came in, and these littleold people that are just trying
to find their doctor, you know,and I can brighten their day
with some coffee. I mean, it'sjust like, sometimes it's just
the little things that can helpyou just kind of put things
into, too into perspective andbe like, Okay, I can lay all
this other stuff down, and itdoesn't have to be so heavy.
Yeah, if I can just,
Lesley Taylor (30:23):
you're bringing a little bit of joy into people's
lives. It's like, here's acoffee, you know. And even if
they like you said, they justwant to have like, especially
older people, they just want tohave a little chit chat or
something like that. And, youknow, having somebody to talk to
and I can't honestly say that Ican think of a job where I,
where I loved it like thatbefore. Because I didn't have
(30:46):
when I was younger, I didn'treally have the perspective, I
think I was more on the track ofneeding to achieve, you know, I
want that next job, I want thatmore important job, I want more
money, I want more, you know,status, or, you know, whatever.
Jamie Stephens (31:03):
Well, that was probably one of the last jobs I
had before I kind of entered inthat whole mentality of just go
Go, go, go go. And then you'relike, Okay, I'm on this
corporate ladder, but like, am Ieven having fun? And like, do I
like what's happening here? Ijust feel gross every day. And I
don't, you know, I mean, there'sjust that kind of reckoning, you
(31:24):
have to eventually come withyourself to where it's just
like, oh, like, I'm doing allthe things unchecking the boxes,
but I'm done. Like this, thisdoesn't feel good anymore.
Lesley Taylor (31:36):
Yeah, yeah. And you know, there's also a little
bit of ever, I guess, I don'tknow if reckoning is really the
right word. But there's arealization that you come to at
a certain point where you'relike, I don't know that I want
to contribute to this profitmaking company anymore. If
(31:58):
they're not, maybe running theirbusiness in a way that I feel
good about, like, I don't know,I don't want to disparage where
I work. Because, you know, thepeople I worked with, were
fantastic. But you know, whatbanks job is to make money,
like, that's their job, like,they're trying to make money,
they're trying to do whateverthey can to make money, and they
make money off the backs oftheir customers, right. So I'm
(32:22):
kind of like, oh, you know,working in banking, afforded me
a great lifestyle, I was able tobuy a house on my own, I bought
a condo on my own, I bought ahouse on my own sold, that house
bought another condo like, Iwould never have been able to do
any of those things, had I notsort of, quote unquote, sold my
(32:42):
soul to the devil for as long asI did. Because, you know, a lot
of people follow their dream andfollow their bliss and never had
more than two nickels to rubtogether would never have been
able to do the things that Idid, because they just weren't
earning the kind of money that Iwas earning. And so I fully
recognize that the lifestylethat I have today, as even
(33:04):
though it's much pared down fromwhat it was before, is because
of the work that I did all thoseyears working in a bank, you
know, and some people might saythat's like, morally
reprehensible, that I wasworking in that type of
organization and making all thatmoney. And now I get to live off
the, you know, the, the fruitsof all of that. Yeah, so there's
(33:28):
definitely a moral. I don'tknow, it's like, not a moral
conundrum. But there'sdefinitely a moral aspect to it,
that I think about it and go,you know, so I don't want to sit
here and say, Do as I did, and,you know, your life will be
fantastic. Because, you know,I'm sure I contributed to a lot
(33:48):
of, you know, just by workingfor a bank, you know,
contributed to a lot of thethings that cause other people
problems in their lives, right.
Jamie Stephens (34:00):
I mean, I think that's really generous of you to
take that on. But
Lesley Taylor (34:05):
you're, yeah, I don't know that I'm not taking
it on. Like, I'm not wearing it,like, Oh, God, I don't want to
make this about me in terms oflike, oh, I, you know, sold my
soul to the devil for years.
Like, you know, I'm such a, youknow, noble person or whatever.
Like, it's not about that it's,or it's just about being
realistic about the privilegethat I have. And that the
(34:25):
lifestyle that I have now, Imean, I don't live an
extravagant lifestyle, but I canafford to work for minimum wage,
you know, and still put a decentroof over my head because of
what I did for the previous 30
Jamie Stephens (34:43):
reps. Right?
Right. You have options becauseof Yes,
Lesley Taylor (34:47):
and not everybody has the same options that I
have. And not everybodynecessarily had the same choices
that I had. And, you know, likeyears ago, I would have said,
well Oh, your choice was totravel the world after
university. And my choice was togo work in the corporate world.
And you know, but maybe, youknow, they didn't have that
(35:12):
choice, right. So I don't like Idon't want to make it like, I
made better choices than otherpeople did. I made the choices
that worked for me. And, and soand it worked out for me. And
I'm very grateful for that. AndI'm not I don't want anybody to
think that if they didn't makethe choices that I made, that
(35:33):
their choices were wrong or bad,right? Oh, yeah.
Jamie Stephens (35:36):
I mean, we're all on our own. Our own journey,
our own path, our own, I mean,even within like the same
families, and all of that. Imean, everybody makes different
choices and how it affects Imean, I think it's, it's really
interesting to kind of sit downand kind of wonder, you know,
just be like, I wonder if, like,during this point, if I would
(35:58):
have done X, like how that wouldhave impacted things, or, you
know, I kinda like to do that.
But,
Lesley Taylor (36:04):
yeah, well, there's I don't know if you've
heard, he's sort of making thepodcast rounds right now, a man
named Daniel Pink. And he has abook called The Power of regret.
And so I've heard him on severalpodcasts recently, talking about
the different kinds of regretsthat people have. And he kind of
breaks them into fourcategories. And the one that
(36:24):
really resonated for me was themost people actually, one of the
things he says is that whenpeople are younger, in their
20s, their regrets are 50, about50%, regretting things they did
and 50%, regretting things theydidn't do. But as we get older,
so they talk to people like intheir 50s and 60s, most of their
(36:46):
regrets, like 75% of theirregrets are things they didn't
do, not the things that theydid. And so having these regrets
over, not taking a chance notbeing bold, not, you know,
telling the cute person that yousaw at the coffee shop that, you
know, you were interested in,Hey, would you like to grab a
(37:07):
coffee sometime or somethinglike that? Those are the kinds
of regrets that people have ornot studying abroad in their
junior year of university or,you know, whatever. Those are
the kinds of regrets that peoplehave more so as they get older
is this idea that the chancesthe risks they didn't take when
they were younger. And so I dohave some of those regrets. But
(37:29):
then I look at, like, I think Ididn't travel when I was
younger, I didn't really traveltill I was well into my 40s. And
then I started going places, butup until then, I just never had
the money really to travel. Butso it's an interesting thing to
think about is like, you know,what are the kinds of regrets
that you might have? If youdon't take a chance. But in my
(37:54):
case, and as I said, at the verybeginning, I needed to see all
the numbers on paper to knowwhat that taking that risk of
quitting my full time lucrativebanking job would have, and how
long until I was destitute? Youknow, until I didn't have any
money and was like, you know,begging people to sleep on their
(38:14):
couch. And so I knew what thatnumber was. And I knew how long
I was going to have to or atleast at the time, I thought I
did but then of course COVIDchanged everything. But yeah, so
I like to take measured chancesnot I'm not a leap off a cliff
kind of person. I'm definitely aI'm more cautious planned out.
(38:38):
taker of chances. Gotcha.
Jamie Stephens (38:41):
So do you regret leaving corporate? No, no, that
was fascinating. Yeah.
Lesley Taylor (38:48):
No, I don't regret it at all. I you know,
and everyone will probably saythis. I missed the people. But
you know, the people I liked,genuinely liked I still tasted
keep in touch with. Yeah, right.
And so, you know, some of them Isee more frequently than others.
And like I said, you know, thepandemic kind of changed
everything. I probably wouldhave seen people more often. Had
I had that not happened. But Istill keep in touch with a
(39:12):
handful of people. I used towork with people I liked. And,
you know, I'll continue to likeI don't see them as often,
obviously, as I did when Iworked there, but that's really
the only part that I miss.
Jamie Stephens (39:25):
Yeah. All right, Leslie, as we wrap up, go ahead
and tell people where they canfind more about you more about
your podcasts and all otherthings.
Lesley Taylor (39:35):
Yes. So my podcast is called no recipe
required. It's available on Ithink all the podcasting or at
least all the popular podcastingplatforms you can get on Apple,
Spotify, Google podcasts, etc.
And it's it comes out everyFriday at 6am. Eastern time. So
that's one way I'm on Instagramat no recipe required.ca Make
(39:56):
sure you put the dot c And therebecause there is another no
recipe required on Instagram. Idon't know how active they are.
But there is another account. Soit's no recipe required.ca. And
also on Facebook, I have aFacebook group, I have a
Facebook page called no reciperequired. Sometimes it's hard to
find. But I do have a Facebookgroup called the no recipe
(40:21):
required challenge. And that'swhere people post their ideas of
things that they're making. Itry and encourage people to make
things without following therecipe and not sharing recipes
from other websites and stuff.
But just like what's some randomthing you made? And or people
(40:41):
might actually even askquestions to say, Hey, I've got
this, this, this and this in myfridge. What are some ideas of
what I can make with that? Sothat's kind of what the
community is about. So it's abit more of an interactive
Facebook page. So if you justsearch for the no recipe
required podcast on Facebook,you can find that as well.
Jamie Stephens (40:58):
Awesome. All right. Well, thank you so much.
Lesley Taylor (41:01):
You're very welcome. It was pleasure talking
to you. All right,
Jamie Stephens (41:03):
you too. Let me stop recording
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