June 14, 2023 • 36 mins
I'm fortunate to have frequent conversations on this Pod that transform how I think about our world. And this conversation transformed me more than most. I hadn't seen the Emmy award winning Netflix show "Love on the Spectrum" before I met its supporting star, Devin Morrissey. My eyes were opened in April when I saw him on a panel at the Autism Investor Summit that gave me profound new insights into the world of a self-described "autistic powerhouse." Devin is SO authentic in who he is ... is SO reflective of his experiences (the good, the bad and everything in between) ... is SO gratitude-forward when he describes his life, his city (LA), his girlfriend (Andrea) and all that he's been through. This was a special conversation. Thank you Devin. And enjoy, kind listener.
ps Devin's currently looking for employment so if you're in need of an extremely creative, talented individual for your organization, please reach out to him directly!
Resources:
Devin on:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/devinmorrissey/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devin-morrissey/
Blog: https://www.tumblr.com/autisticsuperpower
Devin's recent article: "My Thoughts on ABA and an Inside Look at My Experience with Applied Behavioral Analysis":https://www.tumblr.com/autisticsuperpower/719043586574909440/my-thoughts-on-aba-and-an-inside-look-a...
Netflix's "Love on the Spectrum" (United States): https://www.netflix.com/title/81338328
Building Better Businesses in ABA is edited and produced by KJ Herodirt Productions
Intro/outro Music Credit: song "Tailor Made" by Yari and bensound.com
Give us a rating at Apple Music, Spotify or your favorite podcast channel:
Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/za/podcast/building-better-businesses-in-aba/id1603909082
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0H5LzHYPKq5Qnmsue9HTwn
Check out Element RCM to learn more about billing & insurance support for Applied Behavior Analysis providers
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jonathan (00:30):
My special guest today is Devin Morrisey.
Devin is an autistic powerhousewho's been able to live his own
life by his standards and hisrules.
After receiving his bachelor'sdegree from Whittier College and
his masters from University ofSouthern California, he went on
to launch his blog AutisticSuperpower, where he talks
about.
Everything autism related.
From his early beginnings,learning how to communicate
(00:51):
through music to promoting DEand I for all autistic adults in
the workplace and in life.
Devin is also a supporting castmember on Netflix's Emmy
award-winning series.
Love on the Spectrum, us.
Devin, welcome to the pod.
Devin Morrissey (01:05):
Thank you so much for having me, Jonathan.
It's such a pleasure to be here.
Jonathan (01:09):
So, Devin, the pleasure is all mine, sir.
And I first met you, or firstsaw you on a Panel of Love on
the Spectrum Stars in LosAngeles, uh, at the Autism
investor Summit in April.
But I gotta tell you, I hadnever seen the show before and
so I went back and I justwatched it avidly and including
(01:30):
you're in season one, episodeone, there's this brilliant, I
mean, poignant scene whereyou're catching up with your
friend danny over a drink, and Iwas just mesmerized by it, what
is it like having camerasrolling as you just tried to
have a casual conversation withyour friend?
Devin Morrissey (01:47):
Oh my gosh.
I mean, considering that thiswas my very first time to ever
be on a TV show, let alone areality TV show, it was
literally so surreal, especiallyconsidering the success that the
original Australian version hadoverseas, I think maybe two,
three years ago now, the factthat we were bringing it now
over to the United States, itwas absolutely surreal.
(02:10):
And to be a part of that for oneepisode was really insane.
as many of you that probablydon't watch this show, Danny is
a main cast member on the showthat she's looking for love.
And Danny and I have been verygood friends for the past
decade.
she has been looking for lovefor quite some time now, and she
actually referred me to be onthe show with her, at the scene
at the bar.
(02:30):
to talk about her looking forlove again.
we shot that episode two yearsnow and it really was mind
boggling to have cameras in yourface kind of having the
conversation.
And I gotta be honest, it wasreally.
So shocking to see myself onNetflix just cuz you know, even
let alone the trailer when itdropped.
since I am just a supportingcast member and to see myself,
(02:51):
I'm sure, I'm like, wait aminute, what am I doing on
there?
I should be like way in the backor something, I don't know.
But it really was such a lifechanging experience being on the
show and it really introduced meto the autistic roots that I
have, that I was born with.
And it really is.
A reminder of all the thingsthat I've accomplished in the
first 30 years of my life.
(03:12):
I turned 30 back April,literally a week before the
summit, and it's, and in the waythat I see a love on a spectrum
is really the beginning of somany more wonderful things to
come in the future.
Jonathan (03:23):
So well said
Devin Morrissey (03:24):
Well, Thank you.
Thank you.
Jonathan (03:26):
Devin.
Devin Morrissey (03:27):
you.
Jonathan (03:28):
But for listeners who haven't seen the show, like the
primary trailer for season onehas Devin in it.
and Devin, you have just acouple of absolute dynamite
quote bombs in this scene.
Devin Morrissey (03:39):
Really.
Jonathan (03:39):
Yeah.
let me read a couple to you.
So you tell Danni, you find yourPrince Charming.
I find my Cinderella.
Bam.
That was so good.
And then you finished it off inthis toast to danny, where you
said, cheers to us autisticpeople that are coming over
leaps and bounds through ourcrazy lives growing up to now
possibly finding love.
(04:01):
Devin, can I tell you, I'm likeverklempt, just reliving seeing
that scene.
It was so emotionally powerful.
Devin Morrissey (04:07):
Thank you.
Jonathan (04:07):
But my question is this love and romance.
And dating are hard enough forneurotypical individuals.
Like how is love harder oreasier for you?
Devin Morrissey (04:17):
Oh my gosh.
Well, first and foremost, thatcheers to us autistic quote.
I think I'm pretty much gonna beknown about that for the rest of
my life.
I think at this point there'sreally nothing else to say on my
accomplishments.
I'm just that guy from that showthat says that line.
but in terms of finding love,honestly, it's just the same
level of difficulty or the levelof easiness finding love, as
(04:39):
regular neurotypical individualsdo.
Cuz the reality is, you have todo a lot of work in order to get
to the heart of a woman that youabsolutely love.
and in my instance, I do thatall the time.
as many people may not know orhave been living under a rock.
I am currently dating the mostbeautiful girl in the world.
Her name is Andrea.
(04:59):
Andrea and I have now beenboyfriend and girlfriend for the
past two years.
she's actually not autistic, butShe's super supportive.
She's incredibly amazing andshe's actually a ceramic artist.
I'm blown away by her piecesthat she does.
I'm just like, what?
Like, you gotta do more of this,babe.
this is amazing.
and actually, funny enough, so.
(05:19):
People may not know this, but onthe show, I mentioned a comment
about how I have myself a fourthdate coming up with the same
girl that was Andrea.
So literally right around thetime that we shot that show, Our
relationship was reallybeginning to heat up.
and in a way, Andrea has reallychanged my life for the better.
(05:40):
Um, in every sense of the word.
She makes me feel whole.
She makes me the luckiest man inthe world and she makes me feel
better about myself and shereally makes me feel like my
heart's complete, even on dayswhen I may feel really sad or
isolated.
She's always there, for me, andthat is.
The best thing that I could haveever asked for, I honestly
(06:03):
thought that I was never gonnafind love.
I always felt like the uglyduckling growing up because I
was autistic.
But Andrea is just like, babe, Idon't ever want you to feel like
you have to mask or not beautistic around me.
I love it when you're being yourauthentic autistic self.
So I don't know how lucky I gothaving Andrea in my life as my
girlfriend, but I'm foreverthankful that she is mine.
Jonathan (06:23):
Wow.
I want to come back to thatcomment around masking in a
little bit.
But first, I want to dig in alittle bit more into your
background.
And you were diagnosed, as Iunderstand it, with autism at
age three.
And I'm guessing you probablydon't remember that.
but what did your parents tellyou about.
Their experience, as you'regoing through getting your
diagnosis.
Devin Morrissey (06:41):
Yeah.
Well, the first thing that Iremember being told, as you
mentioned, I was diagnosed atthe age of three, and to be
honest, around the 1990s, I.
Autism was kind of seen as adeath sentence.
You were pretty much, you know,set up to fail for your life.
And a lot of doubt was reallythrown against me by the doctors
(07:03):
who diagnosed me.
They literally said, you know,your son's not gonna go to
college.
Your son's not gonna have a job.
your son's not gonna beindependent and your son's not
ever gonna find love, getmarried or have kids.
And basically my parents'response was, you say that now.
But you see in the long run, andwatch, just see what happens.
He's gonna make something out ofhis life.
(07:25):
and what they ended up doingnext, from what I remember, was
really jump in the bandwagon,um, into therapy.
Several dozen of differenttherapies from what I remember
from the second that I wasdiagnosed.
so that's what I remember themtelling me.
And I remember just a littlesnippet of the therapies that I
had, but as I get older, it'slike the memory kind of fades a
(07:47):
bit.
Jonathan (07:48):
Wow.
Well, tell me more about whatyou remember from your ABA
therapy and other therapies youreceived.
Devin Morrissey (07:55):
absolutely.
So kind of starting off with ABAtherapy, ABA was beyond
different back in the nineties.
it was provided in-house, sothere were no providers like
there are now.
and if I recall, there weredozens of therapists that were
coming in and out of my house.
So, Literally 24 7 from Sundayto Saturday every single day of
(08:19):
the week.
and I'll be honest, it was a lotcause I was engaging in so many
different therapies like finemotor skills, colors, you name
it.
I had many social groups growingup all throughout elementary
school.
I engaged in a lot ofoccupational therapy such as
speech, and it was, A lot.
And I, I gotta be honest, it wasvery confusing as a child.
(08:40):
I had classroom aids, that wereassigned for me, but I was like,
wait, what's the deal here?
why am I getting an aid?
Why is not every other childgetting an aid?
Like, it was confusing.
And because of the fact that somany therapies I did miss out on
some school, I missed out onsome recesses, I missed out on
some extracurricular activitiesgrowing up, you know, that
chance to be a child.
(09:01):
as an adult now, it makes a lotmore sense.
Sense because obviously I wasable to really smash every
obstacle that was thrown my way.
I mean, I'm now living indowntown Los Angeles against all
the odds.
I, have the most beautifulgirlfriend in the world that I'm
so thankful for every singleday, and I'm continuing to smash
(09:21):
people's expectations every day.
Jonathan (09:24):
Well keep smashing those freaking expectations.
Devin, it's so inspiring, dude,but you once told me that the
four year old Devin would beshocked at how grownup Devin
turned out.
You, You, mentioned a little bitabout that just now, but like
what did you mean by that?
Devin Morrissey (09:38):
Well, I definitely did say that, when we
first met, but I think what Imeant is that a lot of doubts, a
lot of obstacles were stackedagainst me.
And honestly, it's almost like abaseball game.
I took those heads on.
I threw the ball and justsmashed it right out of the
ballpark.
and I honestly think that myfour year old self would've
never thought that he couldactually be one day living his
(10:01):
life that he's always everdreamt about, especially in the
city of Angels.
Just cuz I was a small childgrowing up in Danville,
California.
I.
I never thought that I wouldever leave the Bay Area, let
alone leave that small town.
But I'm living proof that, youcan come from a lot of obstacles
throw at you yet you can stillmake something out of your life.
Jonathan (10:21):
Well, I mean there's so many successes that you've
clearly had.
And and, I appreciate youmentioned earlier that there are
times you probably have to mask,right?
Living in this world that hasnot been shaped by neurodiverse
individuals, right?
This is largely still a world,unfortunately that's shaped by
neurotypicals.
And so tell me more about likemasking and, and what that looks
(10:41):
like and Do you feel, forexample, right now that you're
needing to mask in thisconversation?
Devin Morrissey (10:47):
Oh, absolutely not.
You know?
And masking is something that Ithink has always been a part of
my life because I got a lot oftherapies and I learned a lot of
these different behaviors.
I first found out that I wasautistic at 12 years old, so
right before I was heading tomiddle school, and I gotta be
honest, a lot of it didn'treally make very sense.
(11:09):
Like things were starting tokind of add up.
I'm like, okay.
Why am I having these meltdowns?
Why am I having to miss theseactivities?
It was not making very manysense.
And for the longest time I wasembarrassed to say that I was
autistic.
cuz society didn't reallyembrace.
Autism at the time, so Iliterally just masked it up and
(11:31):
blended in with everybody.
And so because of that, I reallylost sight of myself and really
for who I was, and so a lot ofdoubt and a lot of anxiety
actually ended up as a result ofthat.
Jonathan (11:43):
Wow.
One of the things that I've seenhappen more increasingly, I
don't wanna say acceptance, Idon't like words, acceptance and
things, but you do seecelebrities.
and others who are coming out,if you will, and and saying,
Hey, I have Asperger's or AutismSpectrum disorder.
(12:03):
and I think recently actually Ilearned from Danny on the show,
the creative Pokemon,
Devin Morrissey (12:07):
Yes,
Jonathan (12:08):
who is on the autism spectrum.
I had no idea I.
Anthony Hopkins, I think, andElon Musk talked about it on a
saturday at night Live.
and so anyway, I'm curious whatthat means to you.
Is it important for you to hearabout these celebrities sharing
their autism diagnosis andjourney publicly?
Devin Morrissey (12:27):
Oh, 100%.
Absolutely.
it's so important to see peoplethat we listen to, like in our
music that we watch on the bigand the small screens, or even
people behind companies andmovements that actually are
talking about, their fullautistic sounds like you
mentioned.
You know the creator of Pokemon,uh, Anthony Hopkins, Elon Musk,
I mean, you got Dan Akroyd, whowe all have seen on Saturday
(12:48):
Night Live in Ghostbusters.
He's on the Spectrum.
Greta Thunberg, world ClimateChange activist.
She's autistic.
You got Susan Boyle who was onBritain's Got Talent with that
viral audition of I Dream ToDream.
She's on the spectrum.
you got Sia.
She's a multi-platinum recordingartist, an actress.
She just revealed her autismdiagnosis last week.
(13:09):
I mean, even now you gotfricking Sesame Street Muppet
named Julia who's on thespectrum.
And it's amazing.
And because role models aresuper important for people to
look up to, and especially inpop culture today, so to have
autistic celebrities, likeeveryone that we just mentioned
that are actually opening upabout the autism is so.
Important so that we can pushthat envelope to really further
(13:32):
autism awareness, acceptance,and quite frankly, understanding
cuz people don't really get thatsense of what life is really
like for us until we actuallyopen up and talk about it.
Jonathan (13:42):
It's so true, and let's be honest, Devin, now you
are in the league of those
Devin Morrissey (13:47):
Oh my gosh, I,
Jonathan (13:48):
this blog.
Devin Morrissey (13:48):
that.
I, don't know about that.
Jonathan (13:50):
Well, hey, look, you've had a blog since 2017
called Autistic Superpower, soI'd love for you to share a
little bit more about that blogand what you talk about there.
And then like is there a senseof responsibility that you in
turn feel to sort of normalizeAnd I, sorry.
Normal is like a setting on thewashing machine.
That's the wrong word, but youknow what I mean?
(14:10):
just to make sure that this ispart of our vernacular in this
still neurotypical world.
Devin Morrissey (14:15):
Yes.
Um, so I decided to launch myblog Autistic Superpower after
years and years of journaling,after years of internal thoughts
and really living life, youknow, so crazily authentically
the good, the bad andeverything.
And.
I decided to launch a blog cuz Ijust felt that it was time for
(14:36):
me to open up in more lengthabout what life is like for
other people, particularly me.
and so I launched this blog andI really had the chance to talk
about everything autisticrelated, whether from ABA
therapies.
To music.
I've been able to talk abouteven personal life experiences
that I've gone through thatreally shaped me into who I am
(14:56):
now.
so really the blog has done, Ithink, more wonders for me than
I ever would've known.
And actually, fun fact.
So because I was nervous to tellmy girlfriend, Andrea, that I
was autistic, but I didn't endup having to tell her.
She found out through the blog.
So the blog kind of beat me toit.
Um, but you know, the blog hasdone so many great wonders.
(15:18):
I actually had a chance to talka little bit about love, you
know, for people on thespectrum, cuz it's one of the
hardest things that anybody canever engage in.
But for autistic people, it'smuch harder.
And my biggest advice I consideranybody, is just go for it.
You know, if you're feelingemotions towards someone, then.
You know, share it, and if itworks out great and if it
doesn't keep looking cuz there'splenty of fish in the sea.
(15:40):
So that blog has really donemore wonders for me than I
would've ever expected.
Jonathan (15:44):
Wow, what Reflective, like gratitude forward
sentiment.
I really appreciate that.
But devin, do you stillexperience stigma?
Devin Morrissey (15:53):
Um.
As an adult, no.
But growing up, um, yeah.
So after being told that I wasautistic, I actually kept my
autism mask and hidden foryears.
I did not want anyone to knowabout it, and I really lost
sight of myself.
(16:14):
I am not gonna sugar cut this.
I had a rough childhood growingup.
I was bullied.
I was antagonized, I washarassed in Middle and High
School to where things gotreally bad that things spiraled
outta control and I just,Snapped.
I battle with PTSD, I battlewith depression.
I battle with anxiety.
(16:35):
I attempted suicide.
I actually had two seizures thatended me up in the hospital for
P T S D related trauma.
and I'll be honest.
Because of the stigma that Ifaced growing up.
I just felt so isolated in solong that honestly I was just
done living.
Like I just was done.
I was just checked out.
(16:55):
and I was severely traumatized,you know, just from being so
stigmatized, judged and excludedand, you know, honestly.
I went through a lot more than Ithink this podcast or even
people that watch Love on theSpectrum will really ever know.
But honestly, graduating highschool was a second chance at
life, and moving to LA was afresh start.
(17:15):
That was where I was like, youknow what?
I'm gonna be my authenticautistic self this time and I'm
not gonna make, you know thatmistake of trying to hide it.
I was gonna fight my way tohappiness, and that's what I
ended up doing.
And I'm in a very positive placenow in my life where I can
officially say that I fought myway to the other side.
And I'm incredibly happy as aresult, cuz I don't ever want
(17:38):
people to think that I play avictim card.
It's all about being a fighterand never, ever ever letting
anyone tell you that you can'tdo something.
You just go ahead and you justdo it and prove'em wrong.
Jonathan (17:49):
Wow.
I love it.
Prove them wrong.
What would you say, devin, to,autistic, and children today who
are experiencing that?
Bullying and stigma?
Devin Morrissey (17:59):
You know, honestly, that is something that
I've always asked myself.
You are not alone.
There are so many people likeyou that have gone through so
many things.
I can guarantee you though, itgets so much better and so much
easier once you learn to loveyourself.
and once you learn that?
your autism is such an amazingblessing, you don't even know
(18:19):
it.
once you get past that hurdle oftrying to figure out
self-acceptance, it becomes somuch better.
Jonathan (18:25):
And what feedback would you have to neurotypical
students and schools who justneed to make this world more
oriented around and inclusive ofneurodiversity.
Devin Morrissey (18:36):
I think that the first thing is really
talking more about people on thespectrum and different
disabilities.
That was something that I didn'tnecessarily have growing up.
Therefore it really was a lotmore difficult to explain.
I don't think that my teenageself could have honestly handled
hearing about it or even talkingabout it cuz I went through so
much.
(18:56):
But I think that now that we'reseeing that a lot more schools
are actually talking aboutdisabilities and actually.
Being more open and accepting toit.
I'm just like, wow, this is agreat change.
Cuz that was not the case for megrowing up.
And I think that the biggestthing that I would, continue to
say is really listen to autisticvoices.
You know, we have a lot ofinsights cuz we live, we're
(19:17):
autistic 24 7 365.
We don't get that chance to, youknow, turn the off.
Buttoned off ever.
So my biggest advice is reallylisten to what we have to say
and also really be mindfulbecause sometimes the things you
might say you don't know thatcould possibly trigger even
offend, someone on the spectrum.
And it's really being mindful intoday's society because a lot
(19:38):
more autistic people, like yousay, are beginning to speak out
about their own experiences.
Jonathan (19:44):
Well, let me extend that question, Devin, to ABA
practices and ABA practiceowners, many of whom want to
take into account voices andinput from neurodiverse
individuals, but maybe theyjust, they don't know the right
way to do so.
What feedback do you have forthem?
Devin Morrissey (19:59):
I'm glad you brought that up.
I actually recently wrote a blogpost about ABA therapy and it's
interesting just cuz there havebeen so many changes since the
1960s when applied behavioralanalysis first started and there
has been so much progress andI'm really happy about, but
there's always room for more.
And I think that, when I wrotethat post, I actually put in two
(20:20):
feedback and pieces in mind,just first and foremost.
Allow autistic people to feeltheir instincts.
Point of simple.
Like it really can be harmful tomake an autistic child a avoid
or ignore their instincts.
if they need a break, let themhave a break.
If they stem, like let'em stem,you know, there's nothing wrong
with that at all.
And I was telling my girlfriendssometimes, like, sometimes like
(20:40):
I do this, this is like astemming mechanism and it
actually helps.
I really don't know why, but itjust helps and I don't think
that I really need a reason toexplain why that is.
And the second thing that Ithink that is so important is to
really focus on each autisticperson's needs and goals in a
positive light.
Don't view it as a negative way,make it a positive experience
(21:02):
and you'll know that if it's apositive experience.
If the client is actuallyresponding happily to the
process or even in the.
Presence of a therapist or arethey actually learning skills or
are going to be valuable at somepoint in their life?
So those are the two things thatI think are really important in
ABA right now that I thinkshould be implemented more.
(21:22):
Cause I think that, when we hearpeople speaking about their
negative ABA experiences, youreally realize, okay, things
need to change.
Jonathan (21:31):
And as you pointed out, I mean there's plenty of
bad ABA that has happened in thepast.
And I think that's justimportant that we have to
confront and say that is what itis and we can't change that.
We can do better.
And I look forward to dropping alink in the show notes to that
blog post.
so our listeners can readthrough that But I want to come
back to seeing you on the panel.
(21:52):
I had never met you.
I had never met the other castmembers.
I hadn't even seen the show.
I just sat down and I said, thisseems like an extraordinary, um,
panel.
And oh my gosh, I was laughing,I was crying.
I was like so deeply it andfocused like it was just, it was
extraordinary.
I was moved.
What was your experience on thepanel, Devon?
Devin Morrissey (22:12):
Oh my gosh.
well first and foremost, thatwas such an amazing and really
moving experience, point blankand simple.
people recognized me from theshow.
That entire panel, and even atthe summit was really unreal.
I.
Uh, to have that and, and likeyou said, the fact that you were
so moved and you were laughingat that, you were crying to have
that big of an impact on notjust the people that attended
(22:34):
the panel, but that attended thesummit, who know the show, was
honestly, I guess, a gift Inever knew I ever had, and
especially consider this was mysecond public speaking
engagement in my life.
the only real I know, the onlyreal time that I ever other
spoke at that was at a highschool graduation for autistic
students in Phoenix, Arizona.
(22:55):
that was the only time that Iever spoke.
So to have that be my secondpublic speaking engagement and
to do it for a show that hasreally, pushed the envelope and
opened up so many doors, it'shuge.
And to open up to a group ofpeople.
that just want to hear what wehave to say is incredibly
moving, And quite frankly, itactually makes me want to talk
(23:17):
about my story even more withthe world
Jonathan (23:20):
Well, you know, every time I public speak Devin, I get
the butterflies and I have toreally channel my anxiety.
I have to do a lot ofpreparation ahead of time.
I'm curious, how do you preparefor, uh, for doing that kind of
panel or doing that speech at ahigh school in phoenix?
Devin Morrissey (23:35):
Well, oh my gosh.
Well, I think that the firstthing is I always have in mind,
okay, well who is your desiredaudience?
Who are you talking to?
So keeping that in mind.
The second, always preparing forquestions, cuz you never fully
know.
what questions are gonna beasked.
but I think that the mostimportant thing of all is being
open and honest, you know?
all of us autistic people we'rebeing open and honest by just
(23:57):
opening up about our lives andabout our experiences.
I mean, everyone saw it on Loveon the Spectrum.
Us.
You see people like Subodh,people like.
Y Abby or James or Kaylan orSteve or even Danny, that are
opening up about themselves andfinding love for the whole world
to watch.
So it really gave me thatconfidence to be like, I could
actually do this and actuallypublic speak more on a regular
(24:20):
basis.
Cuz I think that.
The tides are really beginningto turn with the autism
community and we are being giventhat voice to express what our
lives have been growing up andwhere we're headed in this
direction.
So being able to be given thatplatform and being able to talk
about my story on that big of ascale, it means so much more to
me than I think I'll ever evenknow.
Jonathan (24:43):
Well it does, and my ask of you, devin, is please do
more of it to the extent you areuncomfortable because.
what you share and the insightsand how you describe your
journey is just super powerful.
It's compelling.
so please keep doing it.
I will be a member of anyaudience that I can possibly be
a part of.
Well, Devin, what's one thingABA business owners should start
(25:05):
doing and one thing they shouldstop doing?
Devin Morrissey (25:07):
That's actually a really good question.
I think that we should startreally focusing more on not
curing behaviors, but reallyhelping more with autistic
adults learning more lifeskills.
for instance, having aconversation like we are right
now, communication.
the one thing that I will sayis, you know, we've seen it a
lot.
A b a is not for every autisticperson.
(25:29):
it may work for most, but italso doesn't work for others.
So I think that, stigmatizingthat every single person out
there needs ABA therapy.
I think that kind of needs tostop I think that, what may work
for one person may not work forthe other.
So keeping that in open mind.
There are other solutionsthough.
Jonathan (25:45):
This is so true, and I like to think of this as like
it's not ABA therapy out thereas like the hammer trying to
find every, like child withautism is the nail, right?
it's a broader set of autismservices and that's gonna be
unique and individualized,right, for every person.
Devin Morrissey (26:00):
Mm-hmm.
100%.
Jonathan (26:03):
well, Devin, where can people find you online?
Devin Morrissey (26:05):
Oh my gosh.
So, I have an Instagram account,personal account for Devin
Morrissey.
I, um, talk a little bit about,the fact that I'm in Los
Angeles, I was on Netflix's Loveon the Spectrum us.
and I also have a separateInstagram from my blog, and that
I actually take you to the link,for my blog.
I'm on Tumblr, so it's.
www.tumblr.com/autisticsuperpower.
(26:28):
I'm also currently looking foremployment, so I'm also on
LinkedIn for any of you jobseekers out there that are
looking for a fun, optimistic,autistic person like myself.
I'm on LinkedIn as well.
and yeah, I'm pretty prevalenton social media these days, so
I'm really looking forward toseeing, where life goes from
here.
Jonathan (26:48):
Awesome.
Well, I look forward to postingall of those in the show notes.
I encourage all our listenersfollow Devin, and his journey
and how he so authenticallyshares it's powerful.
Devin Morrissey (26:57):
Thank you.
Thank you.
Jonathan (26:59):
Well, Devin, are you ready for the hot take
questions?
Devin Morrissey (27:01):
Oh, I'm ready.
I'm ready.
Jonathan (27:04):
Devin, you're just born ready.
is what I've gotten to knowabout you.
I love that dude.
Devin Morrissey (27:09):
I have two parents and a younger sister
that always had me ready foranything, so pretty much that
was my mentality too.
And my girlfriend as well, likeshe always has me ready for
everything and anything.
Jonathan (27:19):
Awesome.
Cheers of them for helping youalways be ready.
Devin Morrissey (27:22):
yes.
Jonathan (27:23):
Well, you're on your deathbed.
What's the one thing you want tobe remembered for?
Devin Morrissey (27:27):
Oh my gosh.
I would probably have atombstone that just says, here
lies Devin.
He's an autistic man that had ahuge zest for life and boy did
he live a life.
Jonathan (27:40):
Yes, please.
Devin, what's your mostimportant self care practice?
Devin Morrissey (27:45):
Oh, music, hands down.
music actually has always beenthere for me.
It was the first way of languageand communication for me.
music has done for me more thanhonestly I'll ever know.
So all those music growing upum, from the Disney films we had
growing up to even now with ourmainstream pop r and b hip hop
(28:06):
country.
Even classical music has reallybroadened my vocabulary and has
really helped me to communicatein ways that I just can never
explain.
Jonathan (28:16):
Wow.
What do you think it was aboutmusic, Devin that helped you
communicate?
Devin Morrissey (28:21):
Honestly, music just spoke to me in so many
ways, and music has really, it'salmost like it has decoding
messages of communication inthere, and I think that is what
has always been there.
It's like I'm able to actuallyexpress my thoughts through
communication, through music.
I'm able to really, you know,when I hear something in a song
(28:41):
that I can relate to, I'm like,wow, that actually really stuck
with me.
I can relate to this.
Jonathan (28:46):
Wow.
Devin, I was a guitarist in aheavy metal band in high school.
I was that kid that wore theblack T-shirts.
Yep.
I had a mullet.
and I was ID high school.
Devin Morrissey (28:57):
You had a mullet.
now?
That is awesome.
Jonathan (29:01):
now?
I mean, I got no more hair.
I would pay any amount of moneyI think, to try and get a mullet
back.
But I was that kid, extremelyintroverted and um, and just
didn't want to have anything todo with anyone else.
And I think it was out of a fearof not being included.
And so anyway, my, my access tothe world was through my guitar.
So that is also say, I hear you100% my friend.
(29:24):
Yes, that's right.
Rock.
Devin Morrissey (29:27):
Yes, absolutely.
Absolutely.
I sang all throughout highschool and honestly I think, I
could sing before I could eventalk.
so I think once my parentsactually realized that um,
singing, helped me to talk.
that kind of encouraged me moreto talk.
I think that they regret thatnow because once I started
talking, there was no stoppingme.
Jonathan (29:47):
I love it.
Well, I gotta put you on thespot.
You know, I grew up with Disney,uh, movies too.
Little Mermaid was my favorite.
Did you have a favorite?
Devin Morrissey (29:53):
Oh my gosh.
That is such a hard one.
Honestly, I love everythingDisney.
It's So hard to describe.
but if I were to choose three,it would have to be, The
Emporer's New Groove.
That's one of my highlights.
That's so underrated.
One of the best Disney filmsthat they've ever done.
Um, Winnie the Poo.
That was actually the very firstthing that got me into disney.
(30:15):
I remember having this stuffedanimal collection growing up
with all the characters fromthere.
So I'm definitely gonna makesure that that's passed on to my
children when I have'em.
And um, I would also have to sayMullan, and Mushu is probably
one of hands down my favoritesidekicks of all time.
but honestly, any film fromDisney I love, and especially
from that Disney renaissance erafrom the nineties, like the
(30:37):
Little Mermaid, Beauty theBeast, Aladdin, um, the entire
Disney Renaissance reallyintroduced me to language as a
whole.
I was actually born during theDisney Renaissance.
I grew up with nothing but thatmusic in my house growing up,
but yeah,
Jonathan (30:52):
Ah, so powerful.
And yes, all of those areextraordinary.
Uh, Disney, just since thenineties, the Renaissance, you
point out everything they touchis gold.
It's just the creativesuperpower is impressive.
Devin Morrissey (31:04):
Oh yeah, beyond.
Jonathan (31:06):
Well, let's go to that next question, this perfect
timing, favorite song and or inmusic genre.
Devin Morrissey (31:10):
Oh my gosh.
Well, genre that is such a toughone as well, cuz I love all
genres and is so.
It's way too hard to narrativejust to one.
Um, everything from rock androll, to hip hop and rap, from
pop music to Disney music andeverything in between.
Favorite song though, um, that'sactually really easy, And that's
(31:31):
a song called Soar by ChristinaAguilera off of her strip album.
the song is really all about notbeing afraid of being yourself
and technically in myexperience, being autistic.
there was one lyric in thesecond verse, the song that
really, I feel like.
Sums up my life and it's the boywho wonders, is he good enough
for them He's trying to pleasethem all, but he just never
(31:53):
seems to fit in.
And the song really taught me alot about having the courage to
believe in myself and myabilities.
and it really gave me hope thatone day I would be successful on
my own terms.
Living so authentically autisticthat people see now.
And that song still has suchgreat meaning to this day.
when I look back to when thatsong was first dropped, I think
(32:15):
to myself, I think that boy thatlisten to that at nine years old
will be happy to see how hislife turned out.
Big time.
Jonathan (32:23):
Oh, you gave me the goose pimples, dude.
Oh, I love it.
What's one thing you'd tell your18 year old self Devin?
Devin Morrissey (32:31):
Okay.
Um, 18 year old self, um, getready.
You're gonna be taken off.
and in a big way, big, big, big,way, you wanted to live in Los
Angeles, you just get ready cuzyou're about to move big time.
Jonathan (32:49):
Do you think your 18 year old self would've heard
that and been like, freaked outor like, oh, let's go buckle up
Devin Morrissey (32:55):
I think a little bit of both.
I think that cuz at, at the timeI was just beginning to start my
senior year of high school, so Iwas going through a lot of
different options.
But LA has always had a piece ofmy heart from the time that I
first visited there to go toDisneyland out of all places.
So, um, S just Los Angeles has avery special place in my heart.
Cause it really is sort ofwhere, my roots really began to
(33:17):
take really good present and Ireally feel like, I just belong
here, um, in the city.
Especially knowing that I havethis amazing community that I
have now.
with so many great friends here,I feel like they are my second
family in a way.
And also like my girlfriend isdown here as well, so my whole
life is here now and I couldn'tbe more thankful for that.
Jonathan (33:37):
It's the city of angels, right?
And the city is fortunate tohave another angel than you
who's there.
Devin Morrissey (33:42):
Oh,
Jonathan (33:45):
Devi, you could only wear one style of footwear.
What would it be?
Devin Morrissey (33:48):
Okay.
That is so not fair.
That is so not fair.
Um, you know what I'm gonna haveto bend the rules on this.
It's gonna be a tie betweenConverse and Nike.
Um, converse.
I love the vintage nostalgia of.
Chuck Taylor, all star shoes.
I had so many of those growingup.
I had like 50 diners shoes.
(34:08):
I have pink splatter shoes.
I mean, I even had green eggsand ham shoes.
like the green eggs are likewhere the star on the
conferences.
I mean that was so much fun towear to work when I worked with
kids.
that was the best way to teachthem about reading was just look
at the shoe.
And then Nike.
basketball was huge growing upin my household.
We loved basketball and weplayed quite a bit of basketball
(34:32):
growing up as well.
Had a lot of Nike shoes growingup, so Air Jordan, the high top
ones, pretty much those were,um, big in my life.
So I'm gonna have to definitelybend the rules and say it's a
tie between Converse and Nike.
Jonathan (34:46):
I mean, you can't go wrong with either those
throwbacks like Oh, genius,Chuck Tees.
Hey Devin, it has been anabsolute honor to have you on.
Thank you so much for All you'redoing for your community and for
our world, sir.
Devin Morrissey (35:02):
Thank you so much for having me and thank you
so much for giving me theplatform to really speak about
my life story and really talkabout everything that's happened
in my life in I think the pastfew years.
And I hope that everyone justgets the sense of that.
You know what?
If you've met one person withautism, you really only have met
(35:22):
one.
There's so many of us out thereand get a chance to get to know
us, cuz we might surprise youmore than you think.
Jonathan (35:28):
Amen.
Well said brother.
My special guest today is Devin Morrisey.
Devin is an autistic powerhousewho's been able to live his own
life by his standards and hisrules.
After receiving his bachelor'sdegree from Whittier College and
his masters from University ofSouthern California, he went on
to launch his blog AutisticSuperpower, where he talks
about.
Everything autism related.
From his early beginnings,learning how to communicate
(00:51):
through music to promoting DEand I for all autistic adults in
the workplace and in life.
Devin is also a supporting castmember on Netflix's Emmy
award-winning series.
Love on the Spectrum, us.
Devin, welcome to the pod.
Devin Morrissey (01:05):
Thank you so much for having me, Jonathan.
It's such a pleasure to be here.
Jonathan (01:09):
So, Devin, the pleasure is all mine, sir.
And I first met you, or firstsaw you on a Panel of Love on
the Spectrum Stars in LosAngeles, uh, at the Autism
investor Summit in April.
But I gotta tell you, I hadnever seen the show before and
so I went back and I justwatched it avidly and including
(01:30):
you're in season one, episodeone, there's this brilliant, I
mean, poignant scene whereyou're catching up with your
friend danny over a drink, and Iwas just mesmerized by it, what
is it like having camerasrolling as you just tried to
have a casual conversation withyour friend?
Devin Morrissey (01:47):
Oh my gosh.
I mean, considering that thiswas my very first time to ever
be on a TV show, let alone areality TV show, it was
literally so surreal, especiallyconsidering the success that the
original Australian version hadoverseas, I think maybe two,
three years ago now, the factthat we were bringing it now
over to the United States, itwas absolutely surreal.
(02:10):
And to be a part of that for oneepisode was really insane.
as many of you that probablydon't watch this show, Danny is
a main cast member on the showthat she's looking for love.
And Danny and I have been verygood friends for the past
decade.
she has been looking for lovefor quite some time now, and she
actually referred me to be onthe show with her, at the scene
at the bar.
(02:30):
to talk about her looking forlove again.
we shot that episode two yearsnow and it really was mind
boggling to have cameras in yourface kind of having the
conversation.
And I gotta be honest, it wasreally.
So shocking to see myself onNetflix just cuz you know, even
let alone the trailer when itdropped.
since I am just a supportingcast member and to see myself,
(02:51):
I'm sure, I'm like, wait aminute, what am I doing on
there?
I should be like way in the backor something, I don't know.
But it really was such a lifechanging experience being on the
show and it really introduced meto the autistic roots that I
have, that I was born with.
And it really is.
A reminder of all the thingsthat I've accomplished in the
first 30 years of my life.
(03:12):
I turned 30 back April,literally a week before the
summit, and it's, and in the waythat I see a love on a spectrum
is really the beginning of somany more wonderful things to
come in the future.
Jonathan (03:23):
So well said
Devin Morrissey (03:24):
Well, Thank you.
Thank you.
Jonathan (03:26):
Devin.
Devin Morrissey (03:27):
you.
Jonathan (03:28):
But for listeners who haven't seen the show, like the
primary trailer for season onehas Devin in it.
and Devin, you have just acouple of absolute dynamite
quote bombs in this scene.
Devin Morrissey (03:39):
Really.
Jonathan (03:39):
Yeah.
let me read a couple to you.
So you tell Danni, you find yourPrince Charming.
I find my Cinderella.
Bam.
That was so good.
And then you finished it off inthis toast to danny, where you
said, cheers to us autisticpeople that are coming over
leaps and bounds through ourcrazy lives growing up to now
possibly finding love.
(04:01):
Devin, can I tell you, I'm likeverklempt, just reliving seeing
that scene.
It was so emotionally powerful.
Devin Morrissey (04:07):
Thank you.
Jonathan (04:07):
But my question is this love and romance.
And dating are hard enough forneurotypical individuals.
Like how is love harder oreasier for you?
Devin Morrissey (04:17):
Oh my gosh.
Well, first and foremost, thatcheers to us autistic quote.
I think I'm pretty much gonna beknown about that for the rest of
my life.
I think at this point there'sreally nothing else to say on my
accomplishments.
I'm just that guy from that showthat says that line.
but in terms of finding love,honestly, it's just the same
level of difficulty or the levelof easiness finding love, as
(04:39):
regular neurotypical individualsdo.
Cuz the reality is, you have todo a lot of work in order to get
to the heart of a woman that youabsolutely love.
and in my instance, I do thatall the time.
as many people may not know orhave been living under a rock.
I am currently dating the mostbeautiful girl in the world.
Her name is Andrea.
(04:59):
Andrea and I have now beenboyfriend and girlfriend for the
past two years.
she's actually not autistic, butShe's super supportive.
She's incredibly amazing andshe's actually a ceramic artist.
I'm blown away by her piecesthat she does.
I'm just like, what?
Like, you gotta do more of this,babe.
this is amazing.
and actually, funny enough, so.
(05:19):
People may not know this, but onthe show, I mentioned a comment
about how I have myself a fourthdate coming up with the same
girl that was Andrea.
So literally right around thetime that we shot that show, Our
relationship was reallybeginning to heat up.
and in a way, Andrea has reallychanged my life for the better.
(05:40):
Um, in every sense of the word.
She makes me feel whole.
She makes me the luckiest man inthe world and she makes me feel
better about myself and shereally makes me feel like my
heart's complete, even on dayswhen I may feel really sad or
isolated.
She's always there, for me, andthat is.
The best thing that I could haveever asked for, I honestly
(06:03):
thought that I was never gonnafind love.
I always felt like the uglyduckling growing up because I
was autistic.
But Andrea is just like, babe, Idon't ever want you to feel like
you have to mask or not beautistic around me.
I love it when you're being yourauthentic autistic self.
So I don't know how lucky I gothaving Andrea in my life as my
girlfriend, but I'm foreverthankful that she is mine.
Jonathan (06:23):
Wow.
I want to come back to thatcomment around masking in a
little bit.
But first, I want to dig in alittle bit more into your
background.
And you were diagnosed, as Iunderstand it, with autism at
age three.
And I'm guessing you probablydon't remember that.
but what did your parents tellyou about.
Their experience, as you'regoing through getting your
diagnosis.
Devin Morrissey (06:41):
Yeah.
Well, the first thing that Iremember being told, as you
mentioned, I was diagnosed atthe age of three, and to be
honest, around the 1990s, I.
Autism was kind of seen as adeath sentence.
You were pretty much, you know,set up to fail for your life.
And a lot of doubt was reallythrown against me by the doctors
(07:03):
who diagnosed me.
They literally said, you know,your son's not gonna go to
college.
Your son's not gonna have a job.
your son's not gonna beindependent and your son's not
ever gonna find love, getmarried or have kids.
And basically my parents'response was, you say that now.
But you see in the long run, andwatch, just see what happens.
He's gonna make something out ofhis life.
(07:25):
and what they ended up doingnext, from what I remember, was
really jump in the bandwagon,um, into therapy.
Several dozen of differenttherapies from what I remember
from the second that I wasdiagnosed.
so that's what I remember themtelling me.
And I remember just a littlesnippet of the therapies that I
had, but as I get older, it'slike the memory kind of fades a
(07:47):
bit.
Jonathan (07:48):
Wow.
Well, tell me more about whatyou remember from your ABA
therapy and other therapies youreceived.
Devin Morrissey (07:55):
absolutely.
So kind of starting off with ABAtherapy, ABA was beyond
different back in the nineties.
it was provided in-house, sothere were no providers like
there are now.
and if I recall, there weredozens of therapists that were
coming in and out of my house.
So, Literally 24 7 from Sundayto Saturday every single day of
(08:19):
the week.
and I'll be honest, it was a lotcause I was engaging in so many
different therapies like finemotor skills, colors, you name
it.
I had many social groups growingup all throughout elementary
school.
I engaged in a lot ofoccupational therapy such as
speech, and it was, A lot.
And I, I gotta be honest, it wasvery confusing as a child.
(08:40):
I had classroom aids, that wereassigned for me, but I was like,
wait, what's the deal here?
why am I getting an aid?
Why is not every other childgetting an aid?
Like, it was confusing.
And because of the fact that somany therapies I did miss out on
some school, I missed out onsome recesses, I missed out on
some extracurricular activitiesgrowing up, you know, that
chance to be a child.
(09:01):
as an adult now, it makes a lotmore sense.
Sense because obviously I wasable to really smash every
obstacle that was thrown my way.
I mean, I'm now living indowntown Los Angeles against all
the odds.
I, have the most beautifulgirlfriend in the world that I'm
so thankful for every singleday, and I'm continuing to smash
(09:21):
people's expectations every day.
Jonathan (09:24):
Well keep smashing those freaking expectations.
Devin, it's so inspiring, dude,but you once told me that the
four year old Devin would beshocked at how grownup Devin
turned out.
You, You, mentioned a little bitabout that just now, but like
what did you mean by that?
Devin Morrissey (09:38):
Well, I definitely did say that, when we
first met, but I think what Imeant is that a lot of doubts, a
lot of obstacles were stackedagainst me.
And honestly, it's almost like abaseball game.
I took those heads on.
I threw the ball and justsmashed it right out of the
ballpark.
and I honestly think that myfour year old self would've
never thought that he couldactually be one day living his
(10:01):
life that he's always everdreamt about, especially in the
city of Angels.
Just cuz I was a small childgrowing up in Danville,
California.
I.
I never thought that I wouldever leave the Bay Area, let
alone leave that small town.
But I'm living proof that, youcan come from a lot of obstacles
throw at you yet you can stillmake something out of your life.
Jonathan (10:21):
Well, I mean there's so many successes that you've
clearly had.
And and, I appreciate youmentioned earlier that there are
times you probably have to mask,right?
Living in this world that hasnot been shaped by neurodiverse
individuals, right?
This is largely still a world,unfortunately that's shaped by
neurotypicals.
And so tell me more about likemasking and, and what that looks
(10:41):
like and Do you feel, forexample, right now that you're
needing to mask in thisconversation?
Devin Morrissey (10:47):
Oh, absolutely not.
You know?
And masking is something that Ithink has always been a part of
my life because I got a lot oftherapies and I learned a lot of
these different behaviors.
I first found out that I wasautistic at 12 years old, so
right before I was heading tomiddle school, and I gotta be
honest, a lot of it didn'treally make very sense.
(11:09):
Like things were starting tokind of add up.
I'm like, okay.
Why am I having these meltdowns?
Why am I having to miss theseactivities?
It was not making very manysense.
And for the longest time I wasembarrassed to say that I was
autistic.
cuz society didn't reallyembrace.
Autism at the time, so Iliterally just masked it up and
(11:31):
blended in with everybody.
And so because of that, I reallylost sight of myself and really
for who I was, and so a lot ofdoubt and a lot of anxiety
actually ended up as a result ofthat.
Jonathan (11:43):
Wow.
One of the things that I've seenhappen more increasingly, I
don't wanna say acceptance, Idon't like words, acceptance and
things, but you do seecelebrities.
and others who are coming out,if you will, and and saying,
Hey, I have Asperger's or AutismSpectrum disorder.
(12:03):
and I think recently actually Ilearned from Danny on the show,
the creative Pokemon,
Devin Morrissey (12:07):
Yes,
Jonathan (12:08):
who is on the autism spectrum.
I had no idea I.
Anthony Hopkins, I think, andElon Musk talked about it on a
saturday at night Live.
and so anyway, I'm curious whatthat means to you.
Is it important for you to hearabout these celebrities sharing
their autism diagnosis andjourney publicly?
Devin Morrissey (12:27):
Oh, 100%.
Absolutely.
it's so important to see peoplethat we listen to, like in our
music that we watch on the bigand the small screens, or even
people behind companies andmovements that actually are
talking about, their fullautistic sounds like you
mentioned.
You know the creator of Pokemon,uh, Anthony Hopkins, Elon Musk,
I mean, you got Dan Akroyd, whowe all have seen on Saturday
(12:48):
Night Live in Ghostbusters.
He's on the Spectrum.
Greta Thunberg, world ClimateChange activist.
She's autistic.
You got Susan Boyle who was onBritain's Got Talent with that
viral audition of I Dream ToDream.
She's on the spectrum.
you got Sia.
She's a multi-platinum recordingartist, an actress.
She just revealed her autismdiagnosis last week.
(13:09):
I mean, even now you gotfricking Sesame Street Muppet
named Julia who's on thespectrum.
And it's amazing.
And because role models aresuper important for people to
look up to, and especially inpop culture today, so to have
autistic celebrities, likeeveryone that we just mentioned
that are actually opening upabout the autism is so.
Important so that we can pushthat envelope to really further
(13:32):
autism awareness, acceptance,and quite frankly, understanding
cuz people don't really get thatsense of what life is really
like for us until we actuallyopen up and talk about it.
Jonathan (13:42):
It's so true, and let's be honest, Devin, now you
are in the league of those
Devin Morrissey (13:47):
Oh my gosh, I,
Jonathan (13:48):
this blog.
Devin Morrissey (13:48):
that.
I, don't know about that.
Jonathan (13:50):
Well, hey, look, you've had a blog since 2017
called Autistic Superpower, soI'd love for you to share a
little bit more about that blogand what you talk about there.
And then like is there a senseof responsibility that you in
turn feel to sort of normalizeAnd I, sorry.
Normal is like a setting on thewashing machine.
That's the wrong word, but youknow what I mean?
(14:10):
just to make sure that this ispart of our vernacular in this
still neurotypical world.
Devin Morrissey (14:15):
Yes.
Um, so I decided to launch myblog Autistic Superpower after
years and years of journaling,after years of internal thoughts
and really living life, youknow, so crazily authentically
the good, the bad andeverything.
And.
I decided to launch a blog cuz Ijust felt that it was time for
(14:36):
me to open up in more lengthabout what life is like for
other people, particularly me.
and so I launched this blog andI really had the chance to talk
about everything autisticrelated, whether from ABA
therapies.
To music.
I've been able to talk abouteven personal life experiences
that I've gone through thatreally shaped me into who I am
(14:56):
now.
so really the blog has done, Ithink, more wonders for me than
I ever would've known.
And actually, fun fact.
So because I was nervous to tellmy girlfriend, Andrea, that I
was autistic, but I didn't endup having to tell her.
She found out through the blog.
So the blog kind of beat me toit.
Um, but you know, the blog hasdone so many great wonders.
(15:18):
I actually had a chance to talka little bit about love, you
know, for people on thespectrum, cuz it's one of the
hardest things that anybody canever engage in.
But for autistic people, it'smuch harder.
And my biggest advice I consideranybody, is just go for it.
You know, if you're feelingemotions towards someone, then.
You know, share it, and if itworks out great and if it
doesn't keep looking cuz there'splenty of fish in the sea.
(15:40):
So that blog has really donemore wonders for me than I
would've ever expected.
Jonathan (15:44):
Wow, what Reflective, like gratitude forward
sentiment.
I really appreciate that.
But devin, do you stillexperience stigma?
Devin Morrissey (15:53):
Um.
As an adult, no.
But growing up, um, yeah.
So after being told that I wasautistic, I actually kept my
autism mask and hidden foryears.
I did not want anyone to knowabout it, and I really lost
sight of myself.
(16:14):
I am not gonna sugar cut this.
I had a rough childhood growingup.
I was bullied.
I was antagonized, I washarassed in Middle and High
School to where things gotreally bad that things spiraled
outta control and I just,Snapped.
I battle with PTSD, I battlewith depression.
I battle with anxiety.
(16:35):
I attempted suicide.
I actually had two seizures thatended me up in the hospital for
P T S D related trauma.
and I'll be honest.
Because of the stigma that Ifaced growing up.
I just felt so isolated in solong that honestly I was just
done living.
Like I just was done.
I was just checked out.
(16:55):
and I was severely traumatized,you know, just from being so
stigmatized, judged and excludedand, you know, honestly.
I went through a lot more than Ithink this podcast or even
people that watch Love on theSpectrum will really ever know.
But honestly, graduating highschool was a second chance at
life, and moving to LA was afresh start.
(17:15):
That was where I was like, youknow what?
I'm gonna be my authenticautistic self this time and I'm
not gonna make, you know thatmistake of trying to hide it.
I was gonna fight my way tohappiness, and that's what I
ended up doing.
And I'm in a very positive placenow in my life where I can
officially say that I fought myway to the other side.
And I'm incredibly happy as aresult, cuz I don't ever want
(17:38):
people to think that I play avictim card.
It's all about being a fighterand never, ever ever letting
anyone tell you that you can'tdo something.
You just go ahead and you justdo it and prove'em wrong.
Jonathan (17:49):
Wow.
I love it.
Prove them wrong.
What would you say, devin, to,autistic, and children today who
are experiencing that?
Bullying and stigma?
Devin Morrissey (17:59):
You know, honestly, that is something that
I've always asked myself.
You are not alone.
There are so many people likeyou that have gone through so
many things.
I can guarantee you though, itgets so much better and so much
easier once you learn to loveyourself.
and once you learn that?
your autism is such an amazingblessing, you don't even know
(18:19):
it.
once you get past that hurdle oftrying to figure out
self-acceptance, it becomes somuch better.
Jonathan (18:25):
And what feedback would you have to neurotypical
students and schools who justneed to make this world more
oriented around and inclusive ofneurodiversity.
Devin Morrissey (18:36):
I think that the first thing is really
talking more about people on thespectrum and different
disabilities.
That was something that I didn'tnecessarily have growing up.
Therefore it really was a lotmore difficult to explain.
I don't think that my teenageself could have honestly handled
hearing about it or even talkingabout it cuz I went through so
much.
(18:56):
But I think that now that we'reseeing that a lot more schools
are actually talking aboutdisabilities and actually.
Being more open and accepting toit.
I'm just like, wow, this is agreat change.
Cuz that was not the case for megrowing up.
And I think that the biggestthing that I would, continue to
say is really listen to autisticvoices.
You know, we have a lot ofinsights cuz we live, we're
(19:17):
autistic 24 7 365.
We don't get that chance to, youknow, turn the off.
Buttoned off ever.
So my biggest advice is reallylisten to what we have to say
and also really be mindfulbecause sometimes the things you
might say you don't know thatcould possibly trigger even
offend, someone on the spectrum.
And it's really being mindful intoday's society because a lot
(19:38):
more autistic people, like yousay, are beginning to speak out
about their own experiences.
Jonathan (19:44):
Well, let me extend that question, Devin, to ABA
practices and ABA practiceowners, many of whom want to
take into account voices andinput from neurodiverse
individuals, but maybe theyjust, they don't know the right
way to do so.
What feedback do you have forthem?
Devin Morrissey (19:59):
I'm glad you brought that up.
I actually recently wrote a blogpost about ABA therapy and it's
interesting just cuz there havebeen so many changes since the
1960s when applied behavioralanalysis first started and there
has been so much progress andI'm really happy about, but
there's always room for more.
And I think that, when I wrotethat post, I actually put in two
(20:20):
feedback and pieces in mind,just first and foremost.
Allow autistic people to feeltheir instincts.
Point of simple.
Like it really can be harmful tomake an autistic child a avoid
or ignore their instincts.
if they need a break, let themhave a break.
If they stem, like let'em stem,you know, there's nothing wrong
with that at all.
And I was telling my girlfriendssometimes, like, sometimes like
(20:40):
I do this, this is like astemming mechanism and it
actually helps.
I really don't know why, but itjust helps and I don't think
that I really need a reason toexplain why that is.
And the second thing that Ithink that is so important is to
really focus on each autisticperson's needs and goals in a
positive light.
Don't view it as a negative way,make it a positive experience
(21:02):
and you'll know that if it's apositive experience.
If the client is actuallyresponding happily to the
process or even in the.
Presence of a therapist or arethey actually learning skills or
are going to be valuable at somepoint in their life?
So those are the two things thatI think are really important in
ABA right now that I thinkshould be implemented more.
(21:22):
Cause I think that, when we hearpeople speaking about their
negative ABA experiences, youreally realize, okay, things
need to change.
Jonathan (21:31):
And as you pointed out, I mean there's plenty of
bad ABA that has happened in thepast.
And I think that's justimportant that we have to
confront and say that is what itis and we can't change that.
We can do better.
And I look forward to dropping alink in the show notes to that
blog post.
so our listeners can readthrough that But I want to come
back to seeing you on the panel.
(21:52):
I had never met you.
I had never met the other castmembers.
I hadn't even seen the show.
I just sat down and I said, thisseems like an extraordinary, um,
panel.
And oh my gosh, I was laughing,I was crying.
I was like so deeply it andfocused like it was just, it was
extraordinary.
I was moved.
What was your experience on thepanel, Devon?
Devin Morrissey (22:12):
Oh my gosh.
well first and foremost, thatwas such an amazing and really
moving experience, point blankand simple.
people recognized me from theshow.
That entire panel, and even atthe summit was really unreal.
I.
Uh, to have that and, and likeyou said, the fact that you were
so moved and you were laughingat that, you were crying to have
that big of an impact on notjust the people that attended
(22:34):
the panel, but that attended thesummit, who know the show, was
honestly, I guess, a gift Inever knew I ever had, and
especially consider this was mysecond public speaking
engagement in my life.
the only real I know, the onlyreal time that I ever other
spoke at that was at a highschool graduation for autistic
students in Phoenix, Arizona.
(22:55):
that was the only time that Iever spoke.
So to have that be my secondpublic speaking engagement and
to do it for a show that hasreally, pushed the envelope and
opened up so many doors, it'shuge.
And to open up to a group ofpeople.
that just want to hear what wehave to say is incredibly
moving, And quite frankly, itactually makes me want to talk
(23:17):
about my story even more withthe world
Jonathan (23:20):
Well, you know, every time I public speak Devin, I get
the butterflies and I have toreally channel my anxiety.
I have to do a lot ofpreparation ahead of time.
I'm curious, how do you preparefor, uh, for doing that kind of
panel or doing that speech at ahigh school in phoenix?
Devin Morrissey (23:35):
Well, oh my gosh.
Well, I think that the firstthing is I always have in mind,
okay, well who is your desiredaudience?
Who are you talking to?
So keeping that in mind.
The second, always preparing forquestions, cuz you never fully
know.
what questions are gonna beasked.
but I think that the mostimportant thing of all is being
open and honest, you know?
all of us autistic people we'rebeing open and honest by just
(23:57):
opening up about our lives andabout our experiences.
I mean, everyone saw it on Loveon the Spectrum.
Us.
You see people like Subodh,people like.
Y Abby or James or Kaylan orSteve or even Danny, that are
opening up about themselves andfinding love for the whole world
to watch.
So it really gave me thatconfidence to be like, I could
actually do this and actuallypublic speak more on a regular
(24:20):
basis.
Cuz I think that.
The tides are really beginningto turn with the autism
community and we are being giventhat voice to express what our
lives have been growing up andwhere we're headed in this
direction.
So being able to be given thatplatform and being able to talk
about my story on that big of ascale, it means so much more to
me than I think I'll ever evenknow.
Jonathan (24:43):
Well it does, and my ask of you, devin, is please do
more of it to the extent you areuncomfortable because.
what you share and the insightsand how you describe your
journey is just super powerful.
It's compelling.
so please keep doing it.
I will be a member of anyaudience that I can possibly be
a part of.
Well, Devin, what's one thingABA business owners should start
(25:05):
doing and one thing they shouldstop doing?
Devin Morrissey (25:07):
That's actually a really good question.
I think that we should startreally focusing more on not
curing behaviors, but reallyhelping more with autistic
adults learning more lifeskills.
for instance, having aconversation like we are right
now, communication.
the one thing that I will sayis, you know, we've seen it a
lot.
A b a is not for every autisticperson.
(25:29):
it may work for most, but italso doesn't work for others.
So I think that, stigmatizingthat every single person out
there needs ABA therapy.
I think that kind of needs tostop I think that, what may work
for one person may not work forthe other.
So keeping that in open mind.
There are other solutionsthough.
Jonathan (25:45):
This is so true, and I like to think of this as like
it's not ABA therapy out thereas like the hammer trying to
find every, like child withautism is the nail, right?
it's a broader set of autismservices and that's gonna be
unique and individualized,right, for every person.
Devin Morrissey (26:00):
Mm-hmm.
100%.
Jonathan (26:03):
well, Devin, where can people find you online?
Devin Morrissey (26:05):
Oh my gosh.
So, I have an Instagram account,personal account for Devin
Morrissey.
I, um, talk a little bit about,the fact that I'm in Los
Angeles, I was on Netflix's Loveon the Spectrum us.
and I also have a separateInstagram from my blog, and that
I actually take you to the link,for my blog.
I'm on Tumblr, so it's.
www.tumblr.com/autisticsuperpower.
(26:28):
I'm also currently looking foremployment, so I'm also on
LinkedIn for any of you jobseekers out there that are
looking for a fun, optimistic,autistic person like myself.
I'm on LinkedIn as well.
and yeah, I'm pretty prevalenton social media these days, so
I'm really looking forward toseeing, where life goes from
here.
Jonathan (26:48):
Awesome.
Well, I look forward to postingall of those in the show notes.
I encourage all our listenersfollow Devin, and his journey
and how he so authenticallyshares it's powerful.
Devin Morrissey (26:57):
Thank you.
Thank you.
Jonathan (26:59):
Well, Devin, are you ready for the hot take
questions?
Devin Morrissey (27:01):
Oh, I'm ready.
I'm ready.
Jonathan (27:04):
Devin, you're just born ready.
is what I've gotten to knowabout you.
I love that dude.
Devin Morrissey (27:09):
I have two parents and a younger sister
that always had me ready foranything, so pretty much that
was my mentality too.
And my girlfriend as well, likeshe always has me ready for
everything and anything.
Jonathan (27:19):
Awesome.
Cheers of them for helping youalways be ready.
Devin Morrissey (27:22):
yes.
Jonathan (27:23):
Well, you're on your deathbed.
What's the one thing you want tobe remembered for?
Devin Morrissey (27:27):
Oh my gosh.
I would probably have atombstone that just says, here
lies Devin.
He's an autistic man that had ahuge zest for life and boy did
he live a life.
Jonathan (27:40):
Yes, please.
Devin, what's your mostimportant self care practice?
Devin Morrissey (27:45):
Oh, music, hands down.
music actually has always beenthere for me.
It was the first way of languageand communication for me.
music has done for me more thanhonestly I'll ever know.
So all those music growing upum, from the Disney films we had
growing up to even now with ourmainstream pop r and b hip hop
(28:06):
country.
Even classical music has reallybroadened my vocabulary and has
really helped me to communicatein ways that I just can never
explain.
Jonathan (28:16):
Wow.
What do you think it was aboutmusic, Devin that helped you
communicate?
Devin Morrissey (28:21):
Honestly, music just spoke to me in so many
ways, and music has really, it'salmost like it has decoding
messages of communication inthere, and I think that is what
has always been there.
It's like I'm able to actuallyexpress my thoughts through
communication, through music.
I'm able to really, you know,when I hear something in a song
(28:41):
that I can relate to, I'm like,wow, that actually really stuck
with me.
I can relate to this.
Jonathan (28:46):
Wow.
Devin, I was a guitarist in aheavy metal band in high school.
I was that kid that wore theblack T-shirts.
Yep.
I had a mullet.
and I was ID high school.
Devin Morrissey (28:57):
You had a mullet.
now?
That is awesome.
Jonathan (29:01):
now?
I mean, I got no more hair.
I would pay any amount of moneyI think, to try and get a mullet
back.
But I was that kid, extremelyintroverted and um, and just
didn't want to have anything todo with anyone else.
And I think it was out of a fearof not being included.
And so anyway, my, my access tothe world was through my guitar.
So that is also say, I hear you100% my friend.
(29:24):
Yes, that's right.
Rock.
Devin Morrissey (29:27):
Yes, absolutely.
Absolutely.
I sang all throughout highschool and honestly I think, I
could sing before I could eventalk.
so I think once my parentsactually realized that um,
singing, helped me to talk.
that kind of encouraged me moreto talk.
I think that they regret thatnow because once I started
talking, there was no stoppingme.
Jonathan (29:47):
I love it.
Well, I gotta put you on thespot.
You know, I grew up with Disney,uh, movies too.
Little Mermaid was my favorite.
Did you have a favorite?
Devin Morrissey (29:53):
Oh my gosh.
That is such a hard one.
Honestly, I love everythingDisney.
It's So hard to describe.
but if I were to choose three,it would have to be, The
Emporer's New Groove.
That's one of my highlights.
That's so underrated.
One of the best Disney filmsthat they've ever done.
Um, Winnie the Poo.
That was actually the very firstthing that got me into disney.
(30:15):
I remember having this stuffedanimal collection growing up
with all the characters fromthere.
So I'm definitely gonna makesure that that's passed on to my
children when I have'em.
And um, I would also have to sayMullan, and Mushu is probably
one of hands down my favoritesidekicks of all time.
but honestly, any film fromDisney I love, and especially
from that Disney renaissance erafrom the nineties, like the
(30:37):
Little Mermaid, Beauty theBeast, Aladdin, um, the entire
Disney Renaissance reallyintroduced me to language as a
whole.
I was actually born during theDisney Renaissance.
I grew up with nothing but thatmusic in my house growing up,
but yeah,
Jonathan (30:52):
Ah, so powerful.
And yes, all of those areextraordinary.
Uh, Disney, just since thenineties, the Renaissance, you
point out everything they touchis gold.
It's just the creativesuperpower is impressive.
Devin Morrissey (31:04):
Oh yeah, beyond.
Jonathan (31:06):
Well, let's go to that next question, this perfect
timing, favorite song and or inmusic genre.
Devin Morrissey (31:10):
Oh my gosh.
Well, genre that is such a toughone as well, cuz I love all
genres and is so.
It's way too hard to narrativejust to one.
Um, everything from rock androll, to hip hop and rap, from
pop music to Disney music andeverything in between.
Favorite song though, um, that'sactually really easy, And that's
(31:31):
a song called Soar by ChristinaAguilera off of her strip album.
the song is really all about notbeing afraid of being yourself
and technically in myexperience, being autistic.
there was one lyric in thesecond verse, the song that
really, I feel like.
Sums up my life and it's the boywho wonders, is he good enough
for them He's trying to pleasethem all, but he just never
(31:53):
seems to fit in.
And the song really taught me alot about having the courage to
believe in myself and myabilities.
and it really gave me hope thatone day I would be successful on
my own terms.
Living so authentically autisticthat people see now.
And that song still has suchgreat meaning to this day.
when I look back to when thatsong was first dropped, I think
(32:15):
to myself, I think that boy thatlisten to that at nine years old
will be happy to see how hislife turned out.
Big time.
Jonathan (32:23):
Oh, you gave me the goose pimples, dude.
Oh, I love it.
What's one thing you'd tell your18 year old self Devin?
Devin Morrissey (32:31):
Okay.
Um, 18 year old self, um, getready.
You're gonna be taken off.
and in a big way, big, big, big,way, you wanted to live in Los
Angeles, you just get ready cuzyou're about to move big time.
Jonathan (32:49):
Do you think your 18 year old self would've heard
that and been like, freaked outor like, oh, let's go buckle up
Devin Morrissey (32:55):
I think a little bit of both.
I think that cuz at, at the timeI was just beginning to start my
senior year of high school, so Iwas going through a lot of
different options.
But LA has always had a piece ofmy heart from the time that I
first visited there to go toDisneyland out of all places.
So, um, S just Los Angeles has avery special place in my heart.
Cause it really is sort ofwhere, my roots really began to
(33:17):
take really good present and Ireally feel like, I just belong
here, um, in the city.
Especially knowing that I havethis amazing community that I
have now.
with so many great friends here,I feel like they are my second
family in a way.
And also like my girlfriend isdown here as well, so my whole
life is here now and I couldn'tbe more thankful for that.
Jonathan (33:37):
It's the city of angels, right?
And the city is fortunate tohave another angel than you
who's there.
Devin Morrissey (33:42):
Oh,
Jonathan (33:45):
Devi, you could only wear one style of footwear.
What would it be?
Devin Morrissey (33:48):
Okay.
That is so not fair.
That is so not fair.
Um, you know what I'm gonna haveto bend the rules on this.
It's gonna be a tie betweenConverse and Nike.
Um, converse.
I love the vintage nostalgia of.
Chuck Taylor, all star shoes.
I had so many of those growingup.
I had like 50 diners shoes.
(34:08):
I have pink splatter shoes.
I mean, I even had green eggsand ham shoes.
like the green eggs are likewhere the star on the
conferences.
I mean that was so much fun towear to work when I worked with
kids.
that was the best way to teachthem about reading was just look
at the shoe.
And then Nike.
basketball was huge growing upin my household.
We loved basketball and weplayed quite a bit of basketball
(34:32):
growing up as well.
Had a lot of Nike shoes growingup, so Air Jordan, the high top
ones, pretty much those were,um, big in my life.
So I'm gonna have to definitelybend the rules and say it's a
tie between Converse and Nike.
Jonathan (34:46):
I mean, you can't go wrong with either those
throwbacks like Oh, genius,Chuck Tees.
Hey Devin, it has been anabsolute honor to have you on.
Thank you so much for All you'redoing for your community and for
our world, sir.
Devin Morrissey (35:02):
Thank you so much for having me and thank you
so much for giving me theplatform to really speak about
my life story and really talkabout everything that's happened
in my life in I think the pastfew years.
And I hope that everyone justgets the sense of that.
You know what?
If you've met one person withautism, you really only have met
(35:22):
one.
There's so many of us out thereand get a chance to get to know
us, cuz we might surprise youmore than you think.
Jonathan (35:28):
Amen.
Well said brother.
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