February 7, 2024 • 27 mins
Mordechai on LinkedIn
Chorus Software Solutions
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
Welcome back to Building BetterBusinesses in ABA with me,
Jonathan Mueller.
It's a weekly podcast about theforces reshaping our autism
services field.
Learn from successfulentrepreneurs, payers,
investors, and leaders inapplied behavior analysis.
Thank you, kind listener, forletting me into your world
today.
Now onto the show.
(00:28):
Ooh.
Jonathan (00:30):
My guest today is Mordecai Meisels.
Mordecai is a BCBA and thefounder and CEO of Chorus
Software Solutions, a premiertechnology partner for ABA
practices.
He's also a bold visionarycombining his clinical expertise
and desire to help people helppeople.
Mordecai also serves as thechief clinical officer of Encore
Support Services, a leadingprovider of special education
(00:52):
and ABA therapy services thathas impacted the lives of
thousands of children.
Mordecai, welcome to the pod.
Mordechai Meisels (01:00):
Thank you so much, Jonathan.
What an honor.
Jonathan (01:04):
Oh, it is my honor to have you here.
I've known you going back a fewyears now.
In fact, I think I first heardyou speak about Chorus.
in, uh, gosh, it must've been2019 or 2020 right before the
world shut down with COVID.
And, uh, we were at the autisminvestor summit.
but I gotta start with like, oneof the things that, that I'm so
taken by with you, Mordecai isyou're a like minded
(01:24):
entrepreneur.
Um, I mean, you have a servicespractice, you've got a
technology, a SAS business inour ABA space.
Just tell me your origin story,dude.
Mordechai Meisels (01:33):
So it's really interesting.
growing up, I was always veryentrepreneurial.
remember always being fascinatedby all different types of
experiences and at one point Itold my mother I came up with a
solution, I'll just do somethingelse every day of the week
because I just was so conflictedwith what I'm going to grow up
doing or being.
so honestly, growing up, Ididn't know what I want to do,
(01:55):
but then at one point and myjourney actually started as a
teenager where I, was facedwith, various colleagues that
were struggling and, I startedhelping them.
My passion for helping peopleand my entrepreneurial spirit
merged and that's what happened.
so, My journey started withreally being passionate about
helping people and then helpingpeople help people, being a
(02:17):
provider in the field, being aspecial educator and then a
BCBA, I saw the need of not onlyhelping children, but helping
care teams.
I cared so much about helpingpeople.
I established Encore and thenlater Chorus, not for the sake
of innovation, but for the sakeof helping people.
(02:39):
so sometimes it just takesinnovation and going the extra
mile, to really be able toaccomplish what we really need
to accomplish and the impactthat we're really trying to,
Jonathan (02:48):
Mordecai.
you know, we talk a lot in ABAabout, we're working ourselves
out of a job if we're beingsuccessful, right?
We're doing great parenttraining.
We're helping parents, to be thebest that they can be right for
the other 24 hours a day orhowever long that they're with
their kiddos.
and I think it's that way for anentrepreneur too, right?
(03:08):
if we are being effective as anentrepreneur and someone who
owns these helping kind ofbusinesses, then we're helping
our teams around us to grow.
And we're almost workingourselves out of a job.
I mean, there's always amillion, one things to do as an
entrepreneur, but I think you'vetouched on why I love your, what
your personal mission statementof helping people to help
people.
and it's so needed in our field,especially for these adjacent
(03:31):
services business That areserving ABA practices, but you
know, it's like on that point.
it's fair to say we're in likethe second or third inning of
our maturity, right?
As an ABA field, uh, we have somuch farther to go, um, to meet
the rest of where healthcare is.
Do you think that means thatsoftware solutions that are
meant to support the field arein the second or third inning or
(03:51):
are they farther behind or whereare they?
Mordechai Meisels (03:54):
Excellent question, Jonathan.
we're actually in an incredible,incredible era right now.
to be able to leveragetechnology when it comes to know
what doesn't practice in so manydifferent ways.
we'll have an incredible impactthe experience of our families,
our practitioners, our careteams, the effect that it's
(04:15):
going to have, efficiency,operational efficiency, and
enabling and empoweringorganizations to focus on what's
most important, child progress,outcomes, is unbelievable.
We're basically coming from aplace where people were
literally designing theirworkflows and their practices
and their procedures around thesoftware capabilities.
(04:36):
to a place where we canliterally have practices design
software to support theirdreams, their vision, and their
real goals that drive culture,outcomes and progress, and
achievement.
so I think that's reallytremendous and it's a total,
total mind test shift for whatsoftware really was.
(04:57):
from being this burden and sortof, painful experience, to more
of a companion or co pilotexperience, so to say, which is
game changing.
Jonathan (05:12):
Yeah.
This is a really importantpoint, Mordecai, that, I mean,
you've been in technology formany years.
I used to work in Silicon Valleyand I was in technology, but I
think a lot of people in ourfield might not appreciate that.
Exactly what you said.
Software is supposed to work forus and in our workflows, not the
other way around.
We're not supposed to adapt tothe software, right?
So tell me more.
let's peel back the, the layersof the onion.
(05:33):
what needs did you see at yourservices organization, um,
Encore and in the field that ledyou to start Chorus?
Mordechai Meisels (05:40):
our technology journey started in
2014 when we came to therealization that there was
nothing out there that reallysupports our business with the
way we do business and supportour vision.
So we set out to develop ourown.
we were building out our own, wesaw how much technology actually
empowered our organization,accelerated our growth, our
(06:02):
growth in quality, in quantity,in outcomes, and we realized
that we're on to somethingspecial.
And that actually our experienceis the experience that every
other provider actuallyexperiences.
Every provider has their uniquevision, their unique style, and
their unique needs.
And the software solutions outthere were one size fits all.
(06:22):
So in 2018, we set out toformally establish our entity of
Chorus.
To commercialize our platform tobe able to empower and able
other providers and otherpractices to be able to leverage
the same type of technology thatwe were able to leverage and
achieve the same types of goalsand accomplishments that we were
(06:44):
able to accomplish.
Jonathan (06:45):
Well, it's, it's a phenomenal journey.
that goes back nearly a decade.
give me a couple examples of howChorus is different from other
practice management systems outthere.
and also I'm really intriguedby, how did it help you
accelerate growth?
How did it help you improveclinical outcomes?
Mordechai Meisels (07:00):
I'll just highlight a couple of, you know,
aspects or perspectives.
Number one, having thatunderstanding that every
practice is unique, reallypushed us to develop a platform
and not just another solution,because even if we would develop
the best solution, it wouldcertainly cater to some sort of
practice out there, butdefinitely not all.
So we made sure, and that's,something unique about our
(07:23):
platform that we make itpersonal.
Being a platform, being builtout of Microsoft Cloud for
Healthcare enables us to reallypersonalize and customize our
platform towards a very uniqueworkflows.
needs and specification of eachspecific provider or practice.
so that's a huge unique.
(07:45):
The second unique, I would say,being that we are a platform, we
are enabled and empowered toposition ourselves as a partner
not a vendor.
We're not just a vendor.
We are a partner, partnering inunderstanding how your practice
operates, what's unique andimportant and priority for your
practice, and then partnertogether to personalize our
(08:09):
platform to best suit yourunique needs and priorities to
be able to scale in quality andquantity.
And then we have a lot ofdifferent, very unique features.
as I mentioned, we don'tinnovate for the sake of
innovation.
We understand, we deeplyunderstand the needs of a
practice.
we really pay so much attentionand put in so much thought to
understand each persona from thepractice, BCBAs, behavioral
(08:32):
technicians, what type ofexperiences they need, what type
of access they need.
What type of automation theyneed, we innovate in all of
those areas.
So a couple of highlights, Iwould say we are the first truly
all on one platform, from CRM,or we call it client
relationship management,practitioner relationship
management, all the way through.
(08:55):
Revenue cycle management.
the catchphrase we use is fromCRM through RCM.
we're truly an all in oneplatform, and I would say it's
not just as a one stop shop.
It's more about leveraging thedata throughout the entire
process.
There are so many differentaspects that have to come
together in the ABA practice.
So really leveraging the databack and forth in the right way,
(09:17):
in the right time, in the rightplace.
That's something that we wereable to accomplish by really
going that end to end approach,which was really tough, as you
mentioned, a long journey.
We didn't settle for goingreally modular or only focusing
on certain areas because it fromthat understanding that a
practice really needs to haveeverything centralized and
(09:38):
everything related one toanother.
Each part of the practice isrelated to another part of the
practice, and you can't havethose different functions,
different data, and differentfeatures and silos.
Everything has to talk to eachother.
So, we're truly the first all inone platform out there.
we also, follow the industry's,best practices.
another thing that makes usreally unique, Is the openness
(10:00):
of our platform.
We believe that every practiceshould own their data, have
access to their data, and puttheir data to work.
So we have open APIs, in everylevel, in every entity.
our, uptime, privacy andsecurity, leveraging the
Microsoft infrastructure, andcredibility.
Something that really gave us ahead start, gives our partners,
(10:21):
that confidence And securitythat they're looking for.
unique is that we're truly, thefirst and only mobile first
experience for BCBAs.
While many other solutions offermobile experiences for a
behavior technician, we putourselves in BCBA's shoes.
understanding that they'reworking on the field with
children and with 97155 adaptivebehavioral treatment with
(10:41):
vertical modification, youshouldn't have to schlep out a
laptop, right?
you should have mobile companionthat you can access to the
insights and data that you needand easily update your treatment
plan.
With the belief that the qualityof the care plan is going to be
just as good as how easy it isto keep it current and up to
(11:01):
date.
And the way to do that is amobile first approach, which
works even offline.
So that you shouldn't bedependent on a stable internet
connection.
so that's truly something uniquewhere one of our BCBAs,
mentioned that what she lovesabout our app is that you can
treat and plan a bed.
Something that nobody everimagined before.
Where the mindset was you needprobably two screens to be able
(11:24):
to do effective treatmentplanning.
so that's something we're reallyproud about.
And then really what I wouldsay, how I would describe our
platform that it's not atechnology solution.
It's this living, a breathingplatform that.
Works for you, right?
it's not just a system where youhave to query and filter.
it's the data model, and theguardrails and validations that
(11:48):
are built in all along the way,the proactive, automations,
alerts, workflows, that arebuilt in all along the way.
that our system works for you isa total mindset shift and a
total different ballgame thanwhat people are used to.
so I would say the essence ofour platform.
is totally different thananything that's out there.
Jonathan (12:08):
So Mordecai, one of the.
You know, the last year, um,this topic of AI has just been
everywhere, right?
With chat, GBT.
I mean, it almost feels like theworld's changing more quickly
around us that we can, at leastthat I can keep up with.
I'm curious, how do you think AIwill change our field or how can
it be used to change our field?
Mordechai Meisels (12:28):
Great question.
When it comes to AI, I thinkit's really important to
understand just fundamentally,That AI is not here to replace
or automate, autonomousexperiences.
Rather, think AI will beleveraged for co pilot type of
capabilities and experiences forevery type of user and persona
(12:50):
in the field.
Think about a BCBA that has a copilot experience their app that
aggregates the data, brings tothe forefront different
priorities different, concernsthat the BCBA then can review,
analyze, and make clinicaldecisions with that type of
(13:10):
sophistication of aggregatedand, precise and analytics.
Imagine a behavior technicianwith co pilot experience, a
session, generating activitiesthat they can do incorporating
evidence based strategies thatare, established by the BCBA.
the child's preferences.
(13:31):
Previous experiences in terms ofwhat worked and what didn't
work, child's principalinterest, coming up with
different activities and games,potentially, to promote the most
appropriate opportunitiesimplement the most appropriate
interventions that the BCBA setout in the care plan.
Imagine care coordinator childadvocate sitting in the practice
(13:55):
with a co pilot experience.
It's really juggling all thosedifferent priorities and
changing and shifting prioritiesthat can shift just based on
aging, right?
what was a priority yesterday orwhat was not a priority
yesterday, can become a prioritysimply based on the passing of
another day and another parentthat we need to get back to.
so that's prioritization.
(14:16):
And scoring, so to say, in termsof tasks, creating that co pilot
experience for a carecoordinator to come in to a day
knowing what they need to do andhaving a co pilot actually
organizing their priorities andtheir tasks for them.
I think that's the way to lookat it.
Jonathan (14:32):
this is, this is such an important point that I want
to emphasize it.
it's not like AI for the sake ofAI.
You told me once, Mordecai, thatI think it was one of
Microsoft's, leaders said, BIbefore AI.
That is business intelligencebefore artificial intelligence,
which I think speaks exactly towhat you're describing here is
you need to have practical waysthat you have this co pilot.
(14:53):
You have this system that'shelping to enable and empower
you as opposed to, Oh, there'sjust some fun AI terminator out
there.
That's like that we're playingaround with and using.
That's what I'm hearing reallyclearly from your feedback.
Mordechai Meisels (15:05):
exactly, Jonathan.
I would say people like to thinkabout AI, the capabilities, and
then see how do we just fold itinto our platform.
I think the approach should be,we know that AI has tremendous
capabilities.
Let's go back to our field andthink about what are the
greatest challenges that we haveto overcome, and then come back
(15:27):
to AI to see how AI can be thesolution, help us overcome
challenges that nobody everimagined we'll be able to
overcome.
In such tremendous ways.
So, examples that I justillustrated are, you know,
really thinking about what doesa BCBA really need in their
workflow or in their day to daypractice that can help them.
(15:48):
AI can help.
What are the experiences or thehelp or the system that a
behavior technician needs?
AI can become their companionand their co pilot.
When it comes to scheduling,
Jonathan (16:01):
how much you know sorting and filtering and data
mining they have to do when AIcan be their companion and
co-pilot Think about revenuecycle managment right?
Mordechai Meisels (16:12):
all different types of denial reasons,
organizing all that information,managing all the shifting
priorities and revenue cyclemanagement is unbelievable.
And then think about all thedifferent engagement
opportunities that AI can helpus engage with our providers on
an ongoing basis throughouttheir journey and throughout the
process, engaging with familiesthroughout the intake process or
(16:33):
throughout.
One of the things that weautomated in our practice, now
that we have access to the data,we can see different patterns
and different children that arestruggling in different areas.
We can automate differentknowledge articles to go out.
If it's the family directly orto the BCBA that they can share
with their families asresources.
So we're able to send outknowledge articles to, all the
(16:55):
families that had, children withself injurious behaviors, a
knowledge article on that.
So really having access to thatdata, leveraging that data and
automating different experiencesthat engages parents and or
practitioners, I think is gamechanging.
And that's really what AI isenabling us now in a way.
(17:15):
go back to the field.
Let's go back to our vision andour dreams because now, so much
more is possible with AI.
Jonathan (17:23):
It's almost like taking a first principles
approach to problem solving,right.
opposed to thinking of like,what's the fanciest new use case
for technology.
It's what inherent problems andchallenges do we face and let's
solve those.
Mordechai Meisels (17:37):
And Jonathan, precisely this approach and this
mindset when it came to thedesign of our app.
We're thinking about the BCBAsand behavior technicians, in
session, with a child, whattheir experience should be.
So I was sitting with my userexperience team, and I'm telling
them, my, my dream is, our appshould be like Waze, or Google
(18:00):
Maps.
You will never hear somebodycomplain, Oh, I have to log into
Waze now, I have to put in whereI want to go to see where I want
to get.
You know, you're going on ajourney, you turn to your device
as your companion, you turn iton, you're happy, it's helping
you, it's guiding you, and Theymade sure to have the proper
(18:21):
user experience to captureinformation while your eyes
should be on the road.
So to report a cop, or traffic,or whatever it is.
Very, very seamless experience,so that while your eyes are on
the road, they are able tocapture accurate and reliable
information to help others.
And at the same time, give youdifferent insights, traffic
(18:44):
alerts and things like that,while your eyes are on the road,
in a very easy way.
That was the goal that we had.
A behavior technician or a BCBAin a session, their eyes are on
the child.
How do we come up with anexperience where their eyes are
on the child, we give themmeaningful insights without
(19:04):
distracting them, and easyexperiences to capture relevant
and reliable informationthroughout their session while
their eyes can still remain onwhat's most important, on the
child.
Jonathan (19:17):
Oh, that's such a beautiful analogy, the ways the
Google Maps like have somethingthere that can help you focus,
on what's most important, thekiddos we serve.
Mordechai Meisels (19:26):
Jonathan, our vision was to create an
experience That shifts theattitude and the mindset of how
a behavior technician and a BCBAlooks at the app.
The app is their best friend.
The app is their companion.
It's there to help them get tothe destination that they need
to reach.
Jonathan (19:47):
So beautifully said, Mordecai.
Tell me what's one thing everyABA business owner should start
doing and one thing to stopdoing?
Mordechai Meisels (19:56):
I'll answer that question with one answer.
There should not be anyprocesses for the sake of
requirements or compliance.
or paperwork without it being ameaningful process, meaning
anything that a BCBA or behaviortechnician does should be a
meaningful process that directlyimpacts the progress and the
(20:18):
outcomes of the child.
So there are many organizationsthat are deeply concerned.
They should always worry andthink about what do we do to be
in compliance.
But as you're designing anddoing all that R& D and creating
those processes and making surethey're in compliance, you may
as well check off all the mostimportant and meaningful and
thoughtful boxes to make suresure that that work actually
(20:40):
translates into real progress.
So, for example, in our sessionnote experience in the app, we
make sure that the experiencedoes not just satisfy the DHCOE
and ANSI standards.
The standards of major nationalpayers, but we were adamant to
(21:01):
make sure that that experienceit's not only just an experience
that meets all the complianceand regulatory standards, but it
also gives an opportunity, ameaningful experience for BCBAs
and behavior technicians to geta summary of their session, to
get to reflect on their sessionand then easy guided experience.
(21:22):
That directly ties to the mostimportant aspects of what we
want to capture from them.
That may guide them through thatguided experience to think about
the right questions, the rightconsiderations, and make that
process a meaningful processwhile being in compliance.
That is what technology canenable.
(21:42):
is how every ABA agency shouldstart thinking.
Because now it is possible.
Jonathan (21:49):
Mordecai, you've used this really important term
platform in our conversation.
What does it mean to you to be aplatform?
Mordechai Meisels (21:58):
Really be able to personalize and
customize a solution for every,practice.
The only way to do that is buildand position yourself as a
platform.
we leverage the MicrosoftDynamics Cloud for Healthcare,
which enables a tremendousamount of no code
personalizations, workflows thatany power user can really, on
(22:20):
their own, create their ownworkflows, their own,
dashboards, their own reports.
Especially with our copilotexperiences, they can even just
type in, a freeform language,what they want to accomplish,
and our platform will actuallycreate those workflows for them.
That's here.
that's not future state.
That's here.
(22:40):
that's not where AI is going.
That's where AI is.
but then.
It was also important to us tomake sure that we don't limit
anybody with only being able toconfigure or customize low code
or no code type of capabilities.
We actually empower our partnerswith full custom,
personalizations andcustomizations, whether it's
(23:03):
through integration or building,solution layers and modules on
top of our platform.
It's a real platform wherewhether you want no code, low
code, or full code, we supportit all.
And as I mentioned, we have APIaccess, open access, literally
at every level.
and we really encourage ourpartners to leverage the power
(23:24):
of a platform, by supportingthem with robust documentation,
by supporting them with, ourImplementation and customer
success team really workingtogether hand in hand with them,
whether they have their own teamthat we can empower, or they
want to leverage us as a partnerto help them personalize our
platform in the best waypossible for their practice.
(23:47):
and then the reportingcapabilities.
there are different insights anddifferent, experiences within
the platform.
Um, as I mentioned, it can bereally easily configured, but
for more robust reporting, wehave SQL endpoints.
and unlimited capabilities toreally empower practice to,
really take advantage of theirdata, put their data to work and
(24:11):
put the technology.
To work to support their,practice.
and ultimately build technologyaround their practice.
Jonathan (24:18):
I like that idea of building technology around the
practice.
Well, where can people find youonline, Mordecai?
Mordechai Meisels (24:25):
there's no place better than LinkedIn.
Jonathan (24:28):
Amen, we'll make sure to drop a link in the show notes
to your LinkedIn, uh, profile.
So are you ready for the hottake questions?
Mordechai Meisels (24:35):
Let's go.
Jonathan (24:38):
All right.
You're on your deathbed.
What's one thing you want to beremembered for?
Mordechai Meisels (24:42):
I would say, as a person that really cared
for field, for our patients andcare teams, and did crazy
innovative things.
Jonathan (24:51):
What's your most important self care practice?
Mordechai Meisels (24:57):
Work is great for me.
Jonathan (24:58):
I love it.
You don't hear that answer muchWork, right on.
What's your favorite song and ormusic genre?
Mordechai Meisels (25:08):
So, Hasidic music.
That's a pretty unique genre.
then I would say, after Hasidicmusic, jazz is probably my
favorite genre.
But I do like to spice thingsup.
And, know, I don't like too muchof the same.
shuffling around differentgenres, is probably my greatest
preference.
Jonathan (25:29):
What's one thing you'd tell your 18 year old self
Mordechai Meisels (25:32):
Never stop dreaming.
Jonathan (25:37):
and you can only wear one style of footwear.
What would it be?
Mordechai Meisels (25:41):
so, being part of the Hasidic community, I
don't have that many options.
So, you know, many differentvariations of dress shoes.
That's, that's as exotic as theyget.
Jonathan (25:56):
Right on.
Well, Mordecai, thanks so muchfor taking time to come in the
pod.
Mordechai Meisels (26:00):
Absolutely.
Pleasure is mine.
Hey, kind listener.
Thanks for tuning in.
If you like this episode, canyou do me a favor?
Give me a rating on yourfavorite podcast channel.
It helps more values line peoplelike you Find the pod.
Till next time, peace.
(27:18):
Ooh.
Welcome back to Building BetterBusinesses in ABA with me,
Jonathan Mueller.
It's a weekly podcast about theforces reshaping our autism
services field.
Learn from successfulentrepreneurs, payers,
investors, and leaders inapplied behavior analysis.
Thank you, kind listener, forletting me into your world
today.
Now onto the show.
(00:28):
Ooh.
Jonathan (00:30):
My guest today is Mordecai Meisels.
Mordecai is a BCBA and thefounder and CEO of Chorus
Software Solutions, a premiertechnology partner for ABA
practices.
He's also a bold visionarycombining his clinical expertise
and desire to help people helppeople.
Mordecai also serves as thechief clinical officer of Encore
Support Services, a leadingprovider of special education
(00:52):
and ABA therapy services thathas impacted the lives of
thousands of children.
Mordecai, welcome to the pod.
Mordechai Meisels (01:00):
Thank you so much, Jonathan.
What an honor.
Jonathan (01:04):
Oh, it is my honor to have you here.
I've known you going back a fewyears now.
In fact, I think I first heardyou speak about Chorus.
in, uh, gosh, it must've been2019 or 2020 right before the
world shut down with COVID.
And, uh, we were at the autisminvestor summit.
but I gotta start with like, oneof the things that, that I'm so
taken by with you, Mordecai isyou're a like minded
(01:24):
entrepreneur.
Um, I mean, you have a servicespractice, you've got a
technology, a SAS business inour ABA space.
Just tell me your origin story,dude.
Mordechai Meisels (01:33):
So it's really interesting.
growing up, I was always veryentrepreneurial.
remember always being fascinatedby all different types of
experiences and at one point Itold my mother I came up with a
solution, I'll just do somethingelse every day of the week
because I just was so conflictedwith what I'm going to grow up
doing or being.
so honestly, growing up, Ididn't know what I want to do,
(01:55):
but then at one point and myjourney actually started as a
teenager where I, was facedwith, various colleagues that
were struggling and, I startedhelping them.
My passion for helping peopleand my entrepreneurial spirit
merged and that's what happened.
so, My journey started withreally being passionate about
helping people and then helpingpeople help people, being a
(02:17):
provider in the field, being aspecial educator and then a
BCBA, I saw the need of not onlyhelping children, but helping
care teams.
I cared so much about helpingpeople.
I established Encore and thenlater Chorus, not for the sake
of innovation, but for the sakeof helping people.
(02:39):
so sometimes it just takesinnovation and going the extra
mile, to really be able toaccomplish what we really need
to accomplish and the impactthat we're really trying to,
Jonathan (02:48):
Mordecai.
you know, we talk a lot in ABAabout, we're working ourselves
out of a job if we're beingsuccessful, right?
We're doing great parenttraining.
We're helping parents, to be thebest that they can be right for
the other 24 hours a day orhowever long that they're with
their kiddos.
and I think it's that way for anentrepreneur too, right?
(03:08):
if we are being effective as anentrepreneur and someone who
owns these helping kind ofbusinesses, then we're helping
our teams around us to grow.
And we're almost workingourselves out of a job.
I mean, there's always amillion, one things to do as an
entrepreneur, but I think you'vetouched on why I love your, what
your personal mission statementof helping people to help
people.
and it's so needed in our field,especially for these adjacent
(03:31):
services business That areserving ABA practices, but you
know, it's like on that point.
it's fair to say we're in likethe second or third inning of
our maturity, right?
As an ABA field, uh, we have somuch farther to go, um, to meet
the rest of where healthcare is.
Do you think that means thatsoftware solutions that are
meant to support the field arein the second or third inning or
(03:51):
are they farther behind or whereare they?
Mordechai Meisels (03:54):
Excellent question, Jonathan.
we're actually in an incredible,incredible era right now.
to be able to leveragetechnology when it comes to know
what doesn't practice in so manydifferent ways.
we'll have an incredible impactthe experience of our families,
our practitioners, our careteams, the effect that it's
(04:15):
going to have, efficiency,operational efficiency, and
enabling and empoweringorganizations to focus on what's
most important, child progress,outcomes, is unbelievable.
We're basically coming from aplace where people were
literally designing theirworkflows and their practices
and their procedures around thesoftware capabilities.
(04:36):
to a place where we canliterally have practices design
software to support theirdreams, their vision, and their
real goals that drive culture,outcomes and progress, and
achievement.
so I think that's reallytremendous and it's a total,
total mind test shift for whatsoftware really was.
(04:57):
from being this burden and sortof, painful experience, to more
of a companion or co pilotexperience, so to say, which is
game changing.
Jonathan (05:12):
Yeah.
This is a really importantpoint, Mordecai, that, I mean,
you've been in technology formany years.
I used to work in Silicon Valleyand I was in technology, but I
think a lot of people in ourfield might not appreciate that.
Exactly what you said.
Software is supposed to work forus and in our workflows, not the
other way around.
We're not supposed to adapt tothe software, right?
So tell me more.
let's peel back the, the layersof the onion.
(05:33):
what needs did you see at yourservices organization, um,
Encore and in the field that ledyou to start Chorus?
Mordechai Meisels (05:40):
our technology journey started in
2014 when we came to therealization that there was
nothing out there that reallysupports our business with the
way we do business and supportour vision.
So we set out to develop ourown.
we were building out our own, wesaw how much technology actually
empowered our organization,accelerated our growth, our
(06:02):
growth in quality, in quantity,in outcomes, and we realized
that we're on to somethingspecial.
And that actually our experienceis the experience that every
other provider actuallyexperiences.
Every provider has their uniquevision, their unique style, and
their unique needs.
And the software solutions outthere were one size fits all.
(06:22):
So in 2018, we set out toformally establish our entity of
Chorus.
To commercialize our platform tobe able to empower and able
other providers and otherpractices to be able to leverage
the same type of technology thatwe were able to leverage and
achieve the same types of goalsand accomplishments that we were
(06:44):
able to accomplish.
Jonathan (06:45):
Well, it's, it's a phenomenal journey.
that goes back nearly a decade.
give me a couple examples of howChorus is different from other
practice management systems outthere.
and also I'm really intriguedby, how did it help you
accelerate growth?
How did it help you improveclinical outcomes?
Mordechai Meisels (07:00):
I'll just highlight a couple of, you know,
aspects or perspectives.
Number one, having thatunderstanding that every
practice is unique, reallypushed us to develop a platform
and not just another solution,because even if we would develop
the best solution, it wouldcertainly cater to some sort of
practice out there, butdefinitely not all.
So we made sure, and that's,something unique about our
(07:23):
platform that we make itpersonal.
Being a platform, being builtout of Microsoft Cloud for
Healthcare enables us to reallypersonalize and customize our
platform towards a very uniqueworkflows.
needs and specification of eachspecific provider or practice.
so that's a huge unique.
(07:45):
The second unique, I would say,being that we are a platform, we
are enabled and empowered toposition ourselves as a partner
not a vendor.
We're not just a vendor.
We are a partner, partnering inunderstanding how your practice
operates, what's unique andimportant and priority for your
practice, and then partnertogether to personalize our
(08:09):
platform to best suit yourunique needs and priorities to
be able to scale in quality andquantity.
And then we have a lot ofdifferent, very unique features.
as I mentioned, we don'tinnovate for the sake of
innovation.
We understand, we deeplyunderstand the needs of a
practice.
we really pay so much attentionand put in so much thought to
understand each persona from thepractice, BCBAs, behavioral
(08:32):
technicians, what type ofexperiences they need, what type
of access they need.
What type of automation theyneed, we innovate in all of
those areas.
So a couple of highlights, Iwould say we are the first truly
all on one platform, from CRM,or we call it client
relationship management,practitioner relationship
management, all the way through.
(08:55):
Revenue cycle management.
the catchphrase we use is fromCRM through RCM.
we're truly an all in oneplatform, and I would say it's
not just as a one stop shop.
It's more about leveraging thedata throughout the entire
process.
There are so many differentaspects that have to come
together in the ABA practice.
So really leveraging the databack and forth in the right way,
(09:17):
in the right time, in the rightplace.
That's something that we wereable to accomplish by really
going that end to end approach,which was really tough, as you
mentioned, a long journey.
We didn't settle for goingreally modular or only focusing
on certain areas because it fromthat understanding that a
practice really needs to haveeverything centralized and
(09:38):
everything related one toanother.
Each part of the practice isrelated to another part of the
practice, and you can't havethose different functions,
different data, and differentfeatures and silos.
Everything has to talk to eachother.
So, we're truly the first all inone platform out there.
we also, follow the industry's,best practices.
another thing that makes usreally unique, Is the openness
(10:00):
of our platform.
We believe that every practiceshould own their data, have
access to their data, and puttheir data to work.
So we have open APIs, in everylevel, in every entity.
our, uptime, privacy andsecurity, leveraging the
Microsoft infrastructure, andcredibility.
Something that really gave us ahead start, gives our partners,
(10:21):
that confidence And securitythat they're looking for.
unique is that we're truly, thefirst and only mobile first
experience for BCBAs.
While many other solutions offermobile experiences for a
behavior technician, we putourselves in BCBA's shoes.
understanding that they'reworking on the field with
children and with 97155 adaptivebehavioral treatment with
(10:41):
vertical modification, youshouldn't have to schlep out a
laptop, right?
you should have mobile companionthat you can access to the
insights and data that you needand easily update your treatment
plan.
With the belief that the qualityof the care plan is going to be
just as good as how easy it isto keep it current and up to
(11:01):
date.
And the way to do that is amobile first approach, which
works even offline.
So that you shouldn't bedependent on a stable internet
connection.
so that's truly something uniquewhere one of our BCBAs,
mentioned that what she lovesabout our app is that you can
treat and plan a bed.
Something that nobody everimagined before.
Where the mindset was you needprobably two screens to be able
(11:24):
to do effective treatmentplanning.
so that's something we're reallyproud about.
And then really what I wouldsay, how I would describe our
platform that it's not atechnology solution.
It's this living, a breathingplatform that.
Works for you, right?
it's not just a system where youhave to query and filter.
it's the data model, and theguardrails and validations that
(11:48):
are built in all along the way,the proactive, automations,
alerts, workflows, that arebuilt in all along the way.
that our system works for you isa total mindset shift and a
total different ballgame thanwhat people are used to.
so I would say the essence ofour platform.
is totally different thananything that's out there.
Jonathan (12:08):
So Mordecai, one of the.
You know, the last year, um,this topic of AI has just been
everywhere, right?
With chat, GBT.
I mean, it almost feels like theworld's changing more quickly
around us that we can, at leastthat I can keep up with.
I'm curious, how do you think AIwill change our field or how can
it be used to change our field?
Mordechai Meisels (12:28):
Great question.
When it comes to AI, I thinkit's really important to
understand just fundamentally,That AI is not here to replace
or automate, autonomousexperiences.
Rather, think AI will beleveraged for co pilot type of
capabilities and experiences forevery type of user and persona
(12:50):
in the field.
Think about a BCBA that has a copilot experience their app that
aggregates the data, brings tothe forefront different
priorities different, concernsthat the BCBA then can review,
analyze, and make clinicaldecisions with that type of
(13:10):
sophistication of aggregatedand, precise and analytics.
Imagine a behavior technicianwith co pilot experience, a
session, generating activitiesthat they can do incorporating
evidence based strategies thatare, established by the BCBA.
the child's preferences.
(13:31):
Previous experiences in terms ofwhat worked and what didn't
work, child's principalinterest, coming up with
different activities and games,potentially, to promote the most
appropriate opportunitiesimplement the most appropriate
interventions that the BCBA setout in the care plan.
Imagine care coordinator childadvocate sitting in the practice
(13:55):
with a co pilot experience.
It's really juggling all thosedifferent priorities and
changing and shifting prioritiesthat can shift just based on
aging, right?
what was a priority yesterday orwhat was not a priority
yesterday, can become a prioritysimply based on the passing of
another day and another parentthat we need to get back to.
so that's prioritization.
(14:16):
And scoring, so to say, in termsof tasks, creating that co pilot
experience for a carecoordinator to come in to a day
knowing what they need to do andhaving a co pilot actually
organizing their priorities andtheir tasks for them.
I think that's the way to lookat it.
Jonathan (14:32):
this is, this is such an important point that I want
to emphasize it.
it's not like AI for the sake ofAI.
You told me once, Mordecai, thatI think it was one of
Microsoft's, leaders said, BIbefore AI.
That is business intelligencebefore artificial intelligence,
which I think speaks exactly towhat you're describing here is
you need to have practical waysthat you have this co pilot.
(14:53):
You have this system that'shelping to enable and empower
you as opposed to, Oh, there'sjust some fun AI terminator out
there.
That's like that we're playingaround with and using.
That's what I'm hearing reallyclearly from your feedback.
Mordechai Meisels (15:05):
exactly, Jonathan.
I would say people like to thinkabout AI, the capabilities, and
then see how do we just fold itinto our platform.
I think the approach should be,we know that AI has tremendous
capabilities.
Let's go back to our field andthink about what are the
greatest challenges that we haveto overcome, and then come back
(15:27):
to AI to see how AI can be thesolution, help us overcome
challenges that nobody everimagined we'll be able to
overcome.
In such tremendous ways.
So, examples that I justillustrated are, you know,
really thinking about what doesa BCBA really need in their
workflow or in their day to daypractice that can help them.
(15:48):
AI can help.
What are the experiences or thehelp or the system that a
behavior technician needs?
AI can become their companionand their co pilot.
When it comes to scheduling,
Jonathan (16:01):
how much you know sorting and filtering and data
mining they have to do when AIcan be their companion and
co-pilot Think about revenuecycle managment right?
Mordechai Meisels (16:12):
all different types of denial reasons,
organizing all that information,managing all the shifting
priorities and revenue cyclemanagement is unbelievable.
And then think about all thedifferent engagement
opportunities that AI can helpus engage with our providers on
an ongoing basis throughouttheir journey and throughout the
process, engaging with familiesthroughout the intake process or
(16:33):
throughout.
One of the things that weautomated in our practice, now
that we have access to the data,we can see different patterns
and different children that arestruggling in different areas.
We can automate differentknowledge articles to go out.
If it's the family directly orto the BCBA that they can share
with their families asresources.
So we're able to send outknowledge articles to, all the
(16:55):
families that had, children withself injurious behaviors, a
knowledge article on that.
So really having access to thatdata, leveraging that data and
automating different experiencesthat engages parents and or
practitioners, I think is gamechanging.
And that's really what AI isenabling us now in a way.
(17:15):
go back to the field.
Let's go back to our vision andour dreams because now, so much
more is possible with AI.
Jonathan (17:23):
It's almost like taking a first principles
approach to problem solving,right.
opposed to thinking of like,what's the fanciest new use case
for technology.
It's what inherent problems andchallenges do we face and let's
solve those.
Mordechai Meisels (17:37):
And Jonathan, precisely this approach and this
mindset when it came to thedesign of our app.
We're thinking about the BCBAsand behavior technicians, in
session, with a child, whattheir experience should be.
So I was sitting with my userexperience team, and I'm telling
them, my, my dream is, our appshould be like Waze, or Google
(18:00):
Maps.
You will never hear somebodycomplain, Oh, I have to log into
Waze now, I have to put in whereI want to go to see where I want
to get.
You know, you're going on ajourney, you turn to your device
as your companion, you turn iton, you're happy, it's helping
you, it's guiding you, and Theymade sure to have the proper
(18:21):
user experience to captureinformation while your eyes
should be on the road.
So to report a cop, or traffic,or whatever it is.
Very, very seamless experience,so that while your eyes are on
the road, they are able tocapture accurate and reliable
information to help others.
And at the same time, give youdifferent insights, traffic
(18:44):
alerts and things like that,while your eyes are on the road,
in a very easy way.
That was the goal that we had.
A behavior technician or a BCBAin a session, their eyes are on
the child.
How do we come up with anexperience where their eyes are
on the child, we give themmeaningful insights without
(19:04):
distracting them, and easyexperiences to capture relevant
and reliable informationthroughout their session while
their eyes can still remain onwhat's most important, on the
child.
Jonathan (19:17):
Oh, that's such a beautiful analogy, the ways the
Google Maps like have somethingthere that can help you focus,
on what's most important, thekiddos we serve.
Mordechai Meisels (19:26):
Jonathan, our vision was to create an
experience That shifts theattitude and the mindset of how
a behavior technician and a BCBAlooks at the app.
The app is their best friend.
The app is their companion.
It's there to help them get tothe destination that they need
to reach.
Jonathan (19:47):
So beautifully said, Mordecai.
Tell me what's one thing everyABA business owner should start
doing and one thing to stopdoing?
Mordechai Meisels (19:56):
I'll answer that question with one answer.
There should not be anyprocesses for the sake of
requirements or compliance.
or paperwork without it being ameaningful process, meaning
anything that a BCBA or behaviortechnician does should be a
meaningful process that directlyimpacts the progress and the
(20:18):
outcomes of the child.
So there are many organizationsthat are deeply concerned.
They should always worry andthink about what do we do to be
in compliance.
But as you're designing anddoing all that R& D and creating
those processes and making surethey're in compliance, you may
as well check off all the mostimportant and meaningful and
thoughtful boxes to make suresure that that work actually
(20:40):
translates into real progress.
So, for example, in our sessionnote experience in the app, we
make sure that the experiencedoes not just satisfy the DHCOE
and ANSI standards.
The standards of major nationalpayers, but we were adamant to
(21:01):
make sure that that experienceit's not only just an experience
that meets all the complianceand regulatory standards, but it
also gives an opportunity, ameaningful experience for BCBAs
and behavior technicians to geta summary of their session, to
get to reflect on their sessionand then easy guided experience.
(21:22):
That directly ties to the mostimportant aspects of what we
want to capture from them.
That may guide them through thatguided experience to think about
the right questions, the rightconsiderations, and make that
process a meaningful processwhile being in compliance.
That is what technology canenable.
(21:42):
is how every ABA agency shouldstart thinking.
Because now it is possible.
Jonathan (21:49):
Mordecai, you've used this really important term
platform in our conversation.
What does it mean to you to be aplatform?
Mordechai Meisels (21:58):
Really be able to personalize and
customize a solution for every,practice.
The only way to do that is buildand position yourself as a
platform.
we leverage the MicrosoftDynamics Cloud for Healthcare,
which enables a tremendousamount of no code
personalizations, workflows thatany power user can really, on
(22:20):
their own, create their ownworkflows, their own,
dashboards, their own reports.
Especially with our copilotexperiences, they can even just
type in, a freeform language,what they want to accomplish,
and our platform will actuallycreate those workflows for them.
That's here.
that's not future state.
That's here.
(22:40):
that's not where AI is going.
That's where AI is.
but then.
It was also important to us tomake sure that we don't limit
anybody with only being able toconfigure or customize low code
or no code type of capabilities.
We actually empower our partnerswith full custom,
personalizations andcustomizations, whether it's
(23:03):
through integration or building,solution layers and modules on
top of our platform.
It's a real platform wherewhether you want no code, low
code, or full code, we supportit all.
And as I mentioned, we have APIaccess, open access, literally
at every level.
and we really encourage ourpartners to leverage the power
(23:24):
of a platform, by supportingthem with robust documentation,
by supporting them with, ourImplementation and customer
success team really workingtogether hand in hand with them,
whether they have their own teamthat we can empower, or they
want to leverage us as a partnerto help them personalize our
platform in the best waypossible for their practice.
(23:47):
and then the reportingcapabilities.
there are different insights anddifferent, experiences within
the platform.
Um, as I mentioned, it can bereally easily configured, but
for more robust reporting, wehave SQL endpoints.
and unlimited capabilities toreally empower practice to,
really take advantage of theirdata, put their data to work and
(24:11):
put the technology.
To work to support their,practice.
and ultimately build technologyaround their practice.
Jonathan (24:18):
I like that idea of building technology around the
practice.
Well, where can people find youonline, Mordecai?
Mordechai Meisels (24:25):
there's no place better than LinkedIn.
Jonathan (24:28):
Amen, we'll make sure to drop a link in the show notes
to your LinkedIn, uh, profile.
So are you ready for the hottake questions?
Mordechai Meisels (24:35):
Let's go.
Jonathan (24:38):
All right.
You're on your deathbed.
What's one thing you want to beremembered for?
Mordechai Meisels (24:42):
I would say, as a person that really cared
for field, for our patients andcare teams, and did crazy
innovative things.
Jonathan (24:51):
What's your most important self care practice?
Mordechai Meisels (24:57):
Work is great for me.
Jonathan (24:58):
I love it.
You don't hear that answer muchWork, right on.
What's your favorite song and ormusic genre?
Mordechai Meisels (25:08):
So, Hasidic music.
That's a pretty unique genre.
then I would say, after Hasidicmusic, jazz is probably my
favorite genre.
But I do like to spice thingsup.
And, know, I don't like too muchof the same.
shuffling around differentgenres, is probably my greatest
preference.
Jonathan (25:29):
What's one thing you'd tell your 18 year old self
Mordechai Meisels (25:32):
Never stop dreaming.
Jonathan (25:37):
and you can only wear one style of footwear.
What would it be?
Mordechai Meisels (25:41):
so, being part of the Hasidic community, I
don't have that many options.
So, you know, many differentvariations of dress shoes.
That's, that's as exotic as theyget.
Jonathan (25:56):
Right on.
Well, Mordecai, thanks so muchfor taking time to come in the
pod.
Mordechai Meisels (26:00):
Absolutely.
Pleasure is mine.
Hey, kind listener.
Thanks for tuning in.
If you like this episode, canyou do me a favor?
Give me a rating on yourfavorite podcast channel.
It helps more values line peoplelike you Find the pod.
Till next time, peace.
(27:18):
Ooh.
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