Building Bulletproof Backs Ep 28 - Back Pain, Betrayal & Breakthroughs: A Raw Healing Story with Bianca-Jaye Pearce

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Welcome to the 28th episode of the Building a Bulletproof Back podcast.

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This podcast aims to empower listeners with HOPE that healing is possible when you know how. We discuss strategic tools addressing mindset, movement & emotional health.

I am your host, Marion McRae,  physiotherapist, psychedelic assisted therapist,  & movement addict on a mission to see the existing model of treating back pain evolve. The current model is broken. It focusses almost entirely on the physical body, neglecting the fact that we are all both thinkers and feelers. When the thoughts in our head, and the emotions in our bodies are less than optimal, we fail to thrive.

In Episode 28 of the Bulletproof Backs Podcast, Marion sits down with Bianca — a courageous young woman who went from months bedridden with severe back pain to rebuilding her life through patience, persistence, and self-compassion.

Bianca shares her deeply personal journey of numbness, loss of mobility, over-medication, and the emotional toll of pain. More importantly, she offers hope to anyone currently struggling. Her story is one of radical acceptance, learning to do the “next best thing,” and using simple routines to regain strength and confidence.

Bianca’s Top 3 Back Pain Tips:

1. Do the Next Best Thing – Progress isn’t perfect; even the smallest step counts.
2. Radical Acceptance – Acknowledge your reality without judgment to move forward.
3. Build Small Routines – Daily goals, no matter how tiny, restore control and confidence.

If you’re seeking inspiration and practical wisdom on your back pain journey, this episode is not to be missed.

We’ve just launched a brand new fan mail feature on our podcast! Now, you can drop us a comment, share the podcast with your friends, or ask us any burning questions you have about back pain. I’ll be taking those questions and answering them over on our Bulletproof Backs YouTube channel. 

So, don’t be shy! Send in your comments and questions, and let's keep the conversation going. Your feedback means the world to us, and we can't wait to hear from you!

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Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_00 (00:01):
We'll see you next time.

(00:31):
and offer a beacon of hope toall those seeking relief and a
brighter future.

SPEAKER_01 (00:48):
Hello and welcome to another episode of the
Bulletproof Backs podcast.
I am very fortunate to have areally courageous young lady
join me today.
Her name's Bianca.
Bianca, thank you for joiningme.
I know this is probably a littlebit outside your comfort zone,
as it is for most people, butyeah, I'm just really grateful

(01:10):
that you've carved out some timeto share your story today.
Can you just give us a quickintro to who you are?

SPEAKER_02 (01:18):
Yeah, so I am not...
super good at doing the, hi,this is me.
This is how I like to presentmyself to people.
But I think overall, I'm just,I'm 34.

(01:38):
I have two cats that I loveprobably a little bit too much.
I spend a lot of time at home.
I'm very introverted, but I dospend a lot of time reading and
I'm super passionate aboutmental health.
I am a mental health peer workeras well and I'd like to really

(02:01):
work with people who have livedexperience in the mental health
sphere while also working a lotin admin and just the general
health sphere.

SPEAKER_01 (02:14):
Yeah, great.
And I will say that you do a bitof admin for Movement Solutions,
which is kind of how our pathshave crossed.
And honestly, I think you're oneof these people, hope you don't
mind saying me this, thatThere's layers to you and as you
sit and get to know you, there'sa lot there that's very cool

(02:36):
that doesn't get shown on thefirst sitting and it slowly
surfaces over time.
But I've really enjoyed yourhumour, particularly.
I think you're a very funnyperson, which I don't know.
I don't know why I'm sayingthat, but I do.
I find in our team chats thethings you say quite

(02:57):
entertaining.
Sorry.
Sideline, but you do have a backpain story.
So let's get onto that and yeah,kick us off.
Tell us a little bit about howyou came to be in pain.
I

SPEAKER_02 (03:11):
think

SPEAKER_01 (03:11):
that

SPEAKER_02 (03:11):
I'd always had a lot of nondescript back pain growing
up.
I had, I suppose what weconsidered a traumatic birth
that essentially kind of jarredmy spine in the birth earth
canal.
And so growing up from thatpoint, the doctors had always

(03:33):
said, oh, she's got a little bitof a weaker spine or her bones
aren't quite as dense as theyshould be or things like that.
So I had a lot of pinched nervesand just general nondescript
back pain growing up.
And I think I slipped a coupleof discs in high school and that

(03:57):
sort of thing.
So it was always just sort of, Ialways had been on random
painkillers growing up andthings like that.
So it wasn't until probablyOctober of 2022 where I had
probably the biggest sort ofcatalyst like back injury that

(04:19):
really molded my, I would say,relationship with pain.
And again, it wasn't, there wasno immediate injury or specific
situation.
It was literally I was cleaningmy car out and felt sort of a

(04:40):
twinge in my lower back andthought, oh, you know, I might
be in a little bit of paintomorrow.
And then that...
Sort of the next day I woke upand I had a lot of numbness down
my left leg and I thought thatthat was a little bit weird and
a little bit outside of whatnormally happens.
And then I think by the thirdday I had no feeling from sort

(05:05):
of the waist down and wasexperiencing just the sort of
lower back spasms and leg spasmsthat I can only be described as
being electrocuted over and overagain.
And that, yeah, that was sort ofa period of three days where by

(05:28):
that point, after the threedays, there was no position that
was sort of safe that wouldn'tset off those spasms and I
couldn't feel my legs at all.
I couldn't walk.
I could barely pull myself up.
There was not, it was a verytraumatic and very sudden, shift
in movement.

SPEAKER_01 (05:50):
And you definitely feel it was related to sort of
an odd movement you did cleaningout the car?

SPEAKER_02 (05:55):
Whether or not it was specifically that or if it
had just been sitting therewaiting and it was just sort of
a weakness or a nerve in thewrong spot that I...
pressed on the wrong way andthen it just all crumbled from
there.
It was definitely, I don'tbelieve it was caused by the

(06:18):
movement, but I think itdefinitely contributed to it.

SPEAKER_01 (06:22):
And so what did you do?
I mean...
Can't feel your legs, beingelectrocuted.
What does someone in thatsituation do?

SPEAKER_02 (06:32):
That

SPEAKER_01 (06:34):
probably– I

SPEAKER_02 (06:36):
was working for a medical centre at the time, so I
was able to– and that happenedon a weekend.
So I was able to at least speakto a doctor in like sort of the
days afterwards and– They had noreal answers for me.

(06:56):
There was a real period of fearand unknown, especially the
first few weeks of that.
I didn't do a lot.
There was nothing that could bedone.
I wasn't really given anyimmediate advice.
No one really knew what to do.
So I think for the first week...
I just sort of lay in bed andhoped that the feeling would

(07:21):
come back and it was just areally bad pinched nerve or
something.
But every time those spasmswould come on and that pain that
would shoot through me, it feltand looked like a seizure when
it was happening.
It was horrible.
And every time that happened, alittle bit more of me was more

(07:44):
afraid that nothing, that thiswas not going to change.
So I think for the first twoweeks, definitely, I just lay in
bed and hoped that it would justgo away.
Yeah.
And did it?

UNKNOWN (08:02):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (08:04):
Did it respond to that?
Did it respond to just rest anddoing not too much?

SPEAKER_02 (08:10):
Rest, yes.
I think there was definitely alot of panicked energy in me.
So there wasn't a lot of rest.
There was a lot of me physicallyfighting the pain and the
positions that I had to sort oflie in to relieve the pain and

(08:32):
to not spasm, basically.
So there was more so, I think,within me very much, this was
more of an act of defiance of melying and not doing anything
more than resting andalleviating the pressure that
was clearly on my spine.

(08:53):
Yeah.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (08:56):
And did you end up having scans and all the rest of
it, Bianca?

SPEAKER_02 (09:02):
Yeah, I had quite a few CTs.
So I think I had quite a few CTscans and x-rays.
I was never able to afford anMRI, so I never was able to get
that imaging done.
But the main problem was that Iwas not able to physically get

(09:24):
to an any of the imaging placesto get the scans done.
I could not leave my bed.
I couldn't get in a car.
I couldn't sit in a car.
Sitting was probably the worstposition I could be in.
It would kick off.
It was far too painful.
It didn't work.

(09:46):
I had to wait for Until I wasable to, until I was basically
strong enough to hold myself upto travel.
So it took at least, I think amonth or two before I was able
to get any scans done in me,like as soon as possible.
So there was also that suddenloss of mobility as well.

SPEAKER_01 (10:10):
So that brings up a few things, you know, like
affordability and how it impactspeople's pain rehab pathways
and, you know, just basicthings.
I think, were you living aloneat the time?
or did you have support I

SPEAKER_02 (10:23):
had so I was living with my housemate at the time
and I was very lucky that shewas able and her extended family
as well actually were able todrive me around as much as they
did because it was something Iwould not have been able to do I
know that a few months a fewweeks in I was able to get like

(10:45):
a home visit physio which wasreally helpful but all she was
able to do was the spasming washappening so frequently was just
like the barest of manualmanipulation until the nerves
calmed down enough for her to doanything and for me to be able

(11:05):
to do any sort of exercise.
So I was stuck at home.

SPEAKER_01 (11:12):
It's also really hard from a physio perspective
to assess someone properly who'sin that level of acute pain.
You know, if you can't move, andevery direction is a shooting
electric pain, it's almostimpossible to put someone
through the movement tests andall the tests that we normally
do to establish what structure'sinvolved, what's going on.

(11:34):
So, yeah, it presents a realchallenge, that level of pain
and that level of acuteness.
And, yeah, was there ever asuggestion just go to hospital,
just get an ambulance and checkyourself in and get what you
need done?

SPEAKER_02 (11:51):
I went to hospital pretty, I think, the weekend
that it happened, I did, yeah,look, I've kind of forced myself
into a car, pushed the seatright back and had someone drive
me to the hospital.
But all they did was there wasnothing that they could do.

(12:16):
Imaging was shut as it wasMargaret River on the weekend.
And it was basically here aresome muscle relaxants, see your
doctor next week, which, yeah,was all they really could do.
I wasn't really expectinganything.
I think also the hard thing isworking in the healthcare

(12:39):
industry, I was way toounderstanding.
I probably didn't advocate formyself enough in that point of
like, oh, I understand.
There's no, like I'm not able tosee anyone.
But, you know, also I feel likeloss of, you know, that much
feeling is also considered anemergency.

(13:00):
And I think a lot of that was mejust being like, oh, never mind,
then I'm probably being silly.
I'm obviously not in as much

SPEAKER_01 (13:10):
pain as I think I am.
Wow, yeah.
Yeah, there is your sort ofpatient type that are actually
experiencing a lot and downplayit versus the person who's, you
know, and it's all subjective,isn't it, who has something
relatively mild, but to themit's an escalated sense of drama

(13:30):
and high drama presentation andI hate to say it, But sometimes
the squeaky wheel gets theattention, rightly or wrongly.
It's just a matter of life,isn't it?
So there is a time when being asqueaky wheel is probably going
to do you good.
It's definitely something

SPEAKER_02 (13:49):
that I am not.
And naturally is something thatI've always been like, no, I
think if I approach somethingwith a level head and a calm
voice, you know, I will be ableto speak clearly and more
effectively and people willunderstand what I'm saying.
Unfortunately, when it comes topain and emergencies and getting

(14:12):
people moving, sometimes thatdoesn't work and you just sound
like you're very calmly askingfor the world that and people
won't respond to that

SPEAKER_01 (14:26):
yeah that's that's a really key point it is really
key point that your ability tocompose yourself and regulate
yourself in a high pain statealmost works against you because
people you know cliniciansparticularly who don't know you
from a bar of soap say oh she'sspeaking and she's able to you
know like she's not in that muchpain like it Yeah.

(14:48):
So it's a factor, isn't it?
It's a really interestingfactor.
Yeah.
So how's it progressed?
Like, tell me more.
What happened from there?
I

SPEAKER_02 (14:58):
think from that, it took probably, it's been, yeah,
since 2022, so nearly threeyears of...
Just really constant physicaltherapy.
It was a lot of highs and lows,I will say.

(15:19):
I think the beginning when therewas no feeling and there was
just...
It felt like a mountain thatjust couldn't be climbed.
It felt so hopeless andhelpless.
Having that sudden loss of, Iguess, trust in your own body,

(15:40):
not just being able to stand upand walk, but also there was no
safe position.
There was nothing other than Iknew for a fact that sitting was
going to hurt me.
Sometimes the nerve pain wouldjust kick off.
for no reason.
There was that a very, veryclear and sudden disconnect

(16:02):
between what I guess my, yeah,my, my own trust and my own, um,
confidence in my ability to doreally basic things.
And that really affected me, um,for just a really long time.
And it took a long time for meto even realize that that's what
was happening, that there wasthat emotional disconnect of

(16:26):
like well my body has betrayedme so I'm not going to treat it
well anymore like we don't getthe sympathy that we used to get
um when we when we've got like aa bad pain day and it took a
really long time for me toidentify that that's what I was
doing because that then hinderedso much progress and so much

(16:49):
healing because it just became acycle of pain and um I guess
guilt and shame of not beingable to be independent.
I can't drive myself placesanymore.
I can't stand in the kitchen andcook food for myself anymore.
There was so much...
like mental work that needed tobe done that I just wasn't in

(17:13):
the position to do.
And so there was a lot of that.
There was also the medicationside of it, which I was put on a
very steady, steadily increasingamount of painkillers that were
really slowly deteriorating mymental faculties.

(17:38):
I was on way too many drugs butI didn't know that at the time
and for some reason it just sortof slipped through the cracks so
it became a thing of not justthat trying to recover while
also probably not not having thetools to be able to physically

(18:00):
recover, but also reallystruggling to keep my own mental
faculties.
My thinking was slowed down, myspeaking was slowed down, and no
one could notice it more thanme.

SPEAKER_01 (18:17):
Do you attribute that to the medication or to the
pain itself, or both?
I think both.

SPEAKER_02 (18:24):
I definitely think that it was both, but I know
that when I was finally able tostart taking myself off of the
medication, I did notice animprovement, that there was
definitely a...
It was definitely affecting it.

(18:44):
So I think that the pain wasdefinitely fatiguing me to the
point where thinking wasdifficult.
But, yeah, I think there was acombination of both.
And so

SPEAKER_01 (18:58):
when did you decide to start lowering your pain meds
or what set of circumstancesmade you feel that that was a
good decision or choice?

UNKNOWN (19:09):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (19:09):
So for me, I had probably my kidneys started to
shut down.
Wow.
There was an instance, andagain, I say I definitely
slipped through the cracks whenit came to regulating how much I
was on of specific painkillers.

(19:32):
But there was a specificincident where I was at home and
I was very, very lucky that thishappened the way it did.
I don't remember a lot of this,a lot of this is secondhand
stuff, but I was apparently, Iwas in the kitchen.
I was, sorry, I was in bed.

(19:52):
I was sitting up in bed tryingto move and my housemate came in
and started talking to me.
And apparently I wasn't makingany sense.
I wasn't, I just wasn't with it.
I was in a very altered stateand my housemate I asked her
about it the other night.
Actually, she said that...

(20:13):
Basically, I was fighting herand I was being quite
aggressive, not physically butverbally, which anyone that
knows me knows that's thefurthest thing.
I don't pick fights, but the wayI was speaking to her was a way
I had never spoken to herbefore.
So that's when she knewsomething was definitely wrong.

(20:37):
So she got me to a hospital andthey were able to put me on some
fluid because I was apparentlyincredibly dehydrated and I was
in early kidney failure forthat.
Wow.
And that happened twice.
Wow.
And again, I don't remember thatand that's only recently I have

(21:03):
now found I have a lot of organissues now related to the damage
that was done because of thosemedications.
But I was told...
recently that I had like kidneystones and gallstones and the
doctor said, oh, I've got thisreport here for all of these
things that we need to look at.

(21:24):
And I was like, oh, there mustbe a mistake that I don't have.
No one's ever told me aboutthat.
And I know they did, and it wasduring that time where I have no
actual memory.
I've lost patches of about twoyears' worth of memories because
I do not remember a lot of whatwas happening during that time.

SPEAKER_01 (21:44):
Wow.
Gosh, these are the secondarythings of back pain, aren't
they?
The toxicology on our internalorgans from high-dose
painkillers andanti-inflammatories and, yeah,
the– you're kind of reallyhighlighting is the mental you
need good cognition if you'regoing to be equipped to be able
to work your mind for you ratherthan have it not on board I mean

(22:09):
you really you would understandhow much you need your mind to
take you where you need to bebut if that's not fully charged
that becomes almost eveninaccessible to you as well it
was it was

SPEAKER_02 (22:23):
quite agonizing and I think it was it was almost
like and I I described it tosomeone once as being, it was so
claustrophobic because it waslike I was trapped in my own
body and my mind.
I was looking out.
I could hear the way I wasspeaking and I knew it wasn't
how I was trying to sound.
And I couldn't move, couldn'tphysically do the things that I

(22:45):
wanted to do.
My movements were off.
My cognition was off.
I was trapped inside andconstantly fighting that panic
and that claustrophobic feelingof like, physically I am
helpless in anything that I do.

SPEAKER_01 (23:02):
Yeah.
Would you say the fact your legsgave way or, you know, that
disconnect, and you said youdidn't treat your body well
because you almost felt betrayedby it, was it a bit of like
self-anger or were you pissedoff at your own body?
Like was it a bit of that?

UNKNOWN (23:22):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (23:23):
It

SPEAKER_01 (23:23):
was

SPEAKER_02 (23:24):
definitely, yes.
I think that personally I have,and I've spoken about this I
think before, but I've alwayshad a really complicated
relationship with my bodyanyway.
And I've struggled withdysmorphia on and off for a lot
of my life.
And so losing feeling in a limbwhen you already have trouble

(23:50):
relating to your body, Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.

(24:11):
And so it was very much, youknow, the not being able to not
even show yourself the kindnessthat comes with, I need to heal.
Healing requires space andkindness.
And just that, I think it's acycle, it's a pain cycle, but

(24:32):
it's also a cycle of grief thatcomes.
And if you aren't taking all thesteps of that grief cycle, And
you're only cycling throughanger and shame.
You're only going to get theresults that come with being
angry and ashamed all the time.

SPEAKER_01 (24:51):
Do you think if you'd had a significant event
that had triggered that,numbness and loss of power in
your legs.
Let's say you had a car accidentand it made more sense to your
brain about, oh, I've just beenin a pretty traumatic car
accident.
That explains the degree oftrauma, the degree of senses I'm

(25:12):
feeling versus in yoursituation, it was kind of like
innocuous, wasn't it?
It wasn't a massive movement inthe wrong direction.
It was just this little perhapsthat triggered a lot.
I get why when you don'tunderstand the trigger and the

(25:32):
outcome or none of that makessense that your sense of
distrust in your body would besuper high.

SPEAKER_02 (25:42):
Yeah, and I think that's definitely calling me out
on a super personal level.
I am definitely one fordichotomous thinking and to not
have something that clearlymakes sense and is logical, like
say a car accident that thencaused the back injury.

(26:03):
I would 100% know that I wouldhave been so much nicer to
myself.
If I'd had that tangible thingthat I could look at and say,
this is what caused this immensepain that I'm in, as opposed to
a perceived letdown at the time.

SPEAKER_01 (26:26):
Yeah, I think that's very natural, isn't it?
I mean, our brains are wide, ourmind is wide for logic and when
there is none, it creates a bigvacuum of, you know, what the
hell's going on and then it doeswhat it does.
It fills the gaps withworst-case feelings and, yeah,
it's yuck.
So, all right, keep talking.

(26:47):
Let's bring on the good stuffnow, Bea.

SPEAKER_02 (26:49):
That's it, yeah.

UNKNOWN (26:52):
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (26:53):
Yeah, I think once those sort of issues with like
the kidney failure andeverything started and then I
started sort of working formovement and actually I
basically had to at some pointchoose to work hard so there was

(27:17):
a period of time where I neededto do the grief I needed to do
the acceptance and it tooklonger than it should have
because or not should have sorryit took longer than I wanted it
to because it I just wasn'tdoing mentally I wasn't allowing
myself to get better I thinkthere was just a level of no I

(27:38):
need to suffer and be in painand the pain will make me
stronger somehow which is acoping mechanism that rarely
works.
Um, but basically I had to makethat choice.
And then from there it was, Ineed to be able to get out of
bed.
Um, I, I was basically told thatmovement was key and because I

(28:04):
wasn't able to get up and driveto the gym or go for a walk, I,
um, had to decide, all right, I,I read an article where, um,
people in solitary confinementum were able to cope better with
their um the sort of keep theirmental faculties going um would

(28:27):
be to have a routine and it wasa a concept of basically you
know getting up in the morningwalking to the other side of the
cell and back no matter whathappened that they did that for
weeks at a time and it helpedthem keep Keep track of time.
It helps them keep track oftheir surroundings and just, you

(28:50):
know, give them almost a purposefor the morning.
So I thought I would give that ago.
So my goals for most morningsfor a good few months was to be
able to stand on both feet, likeevenly.
and then walk around the diningroom table twice.

(29:12):
And the reason I did it twicewas because I could measure the
days where I could only do itonce.
So I could know that whether thepain was going up or down.
And so after doing that for alittle bit, I was...
able to see an improvement thatcame with just being able to

(29:33):
move a little bit more.
I wasn't able to drive for agood year.
So I wasn't able to take myselfto my appointments.
So there were times when Icouldn't get to physio or I
couldn't get to any appointmentsreally.
So it was just...
knowing that I could at leastachieve that much in a day did

(29:53):
improve my overall attitude ofthis is something I can do.
This is something I can control.
And if I don't do it, so if Idon't do the two laps around the
table, I can do the next bestthing, which is one lap around
the table, which is still betterthan no laps.

SPEAKER_01 (30:15):
Yeah.
It sounds like you set yourselfup for a little bit of success
full stop and and a bit oftrackable progress which doesn't
matter how small as long asthere's some sense of progress i
think that's very reinforcing toyour psyche that something
you're doing is useful and andand moving you in the direction
you want to go rather than youknow that complete state of

(30:38):
disablement which can just go onforever

SPEAKER_02 (30:43):
Yeah, and it definitely felt like it went on
forever.
But I think once I was able todo that and have that feeling
of, like, look, this is what Ican do.
So then over the months I wasable to then do a little bit
more.
I was able to get out a littlebit and have more treatments.

(31:05):
That's when I sort of startedworking more for movement.
You guys were sort of able tosee me at my absolute worst.
And then also go from beinghorrifically overmedicated to
very slowly detoxed to amanageable level.

(31:26):
And I think there was a lot ofgrace that was given to me when
it comes to doing admin whileyou're on those levels of
painkillers.
At least you had an excuse.
Yeah.
I could answer the phones.
And again, it was measurableprogress.

(31:47):
So yeah, there were definitely,to the point where I am right
now, where I'm able to walk anddrive and look after myself
again, which is something Inever thought possible.
There was a point where I waslike, this is my entire life
now.
I will either walk with the canethat I had to carry around with

(32:09):
me for so long, crutches.
I will never be able toexercise.
I know I put on a lot of weightbeing on just not being able to
exercise and things like that.
So there was just definite...
Yeah, it's very easy for me tooverlook

SPEAKER_01 (32:28):
that.
Can I ask, coming from the spaceof months of disablement and
fear, huge fear of moving, I'msure you had, understandably,
what do you think a physio doeswell that will help you bridge
that gap?

(32:49):
Or what can they do poorly thatwill just send you running out
the door so that you never comeback?

SPEAKER_02 (32:58):
I definitely, there was a physio that I saw many,
many years ago.
Um, cause I've been in and outof physios and things my whole
life for just nondescript backpain.
And there was one particular,um, person who basically I saw
him, I think for three or foursessions and he, uh, yeah, on

(33:18):
the fourth session was like, Idon't really think I've got
anything else to show you.
So you don't need to make afollow-up appointment.
And it's, it's very, um, thingslike that.
I think, you know, sometimes,you know, you've got a client
who won't do the work or, youknow, you really don't have
anything else to, to give them.

(33:39):
But I think it all comes down tohow you, um, convey that
message, which I think sometimesas someone who works, uh, in the
mental health space and has beenin the mental health system for,
you know, many, many years that,People are so afraid of being
dismissed.

(34:01):
And it is something that no onereally talks about, but it is
definitely something that thatum i know i've had i mean i work
for amazing physios who are sogood at um being not even it's
just kindness and and basichumanity but there is something

(34:21):
that comes from people who justgenuinely care enough to be like
i'm not saying that we don'twant you to come back i'm saying
that you have made this amountof progress how do you want to
move forward I've never seenanyone um uh Like at movement or

(34:46):
really there aren't many physiosI know that would look at
someone and be like, don't comeback.
I don't want to.
So I think it is, sorry, that'sa really wrong way of answering
that being able to give peopleoptions on how they want their
next steps to look, whetherit's, do you even want to keep
coming back or how, like, whatdo you want?

(35:07):
What do you want?
I think a lot of choice is takenaway from people at the moment,
especially that, and it's reallyempowering.
when someone actually gives youthe reins when it comes to your
own treatment.

SPEAKER_01 (35:19):
I will give you a caveat there.
If you want the reins, sometimesyou come across patients who
don't want to make any decisionsabout their own health outcomes.
They want it spoon-fed to themand sometimes I've experienced
from the other side, you know,when I throw it back to people

(35:40):
and I say, look, you know, whatdo you want?
Where are you, you know, I cangive you these three choices,
which one works for you?
And, you know, they'll beindecisive and they're like, oh,
you tell me.
You tell me what I need.
And so I think it's a dance,isn't it?
It's really tricky sometimes.
I think physios naturally wantto instinctively, we look at

(36:03):
someone and go, I know what theyneed.
I want to do X, Y, Z, but it'sall...
our our projection onto themwith often no recognition for
where are they at you know dothey have the energy for that
are they fearful of that uh isthat even aligned with what they
want for themselves becausesometimes they're not interested

(36:25):
in getting stronger they justwant um a bit of education about
what's going on you know we makea lot of assumptions as
therapists all the time aboutwhy this person is sitting in
front of us myself included andAnd for a while there, I went
back to the question.
I always assumed people werehere because they're in pain.

(36:45):
And that was a really bigassumption that I was getting
wrong.
Like some of them were like,when I said, oh, look, I'm just
curious, why are you here?
It was just like a revelation tome that my assumption was
completely not what they wereseeking.
You know, most of them wereseeking, um, of how they got to

(37:08):
be in how they were or was theresomething that wasn't being seen
or what were their movementchoices or, you know, I just
assumed they were justinterested in the pain but, you
know, communication I guess iswhat we're saying is so vital
between a therapist and a clientand it does take a bit of time

(37:28):
to build that.
And, yeah, I think...
being dismissed often comes froma therapist's point of view of
they just don't know what to dowith this person and so it's
better to just, from theirperspective, send them somewhere

(37:48):
else, which is...
can be communicated a lot, lotbetter than see you later.
I don't know what to do withyou.

SPEAKER_02 (37:58):
Yeah.
I think the communication isprobably more where I'm coming
from than actually telling aclient that doesn't want to be
seen.
But yeah, I think that look,communication for any
practitioner, I think is themost important.
It's the thing I look for when Isee, when I see someone is
someone who can communicateeffectively, even if it's in a

(38:18):
different way to me, but canstill come across and hear what
I'm saying.
and also convey what they wantas well.

SPEAKER_01 (38:28):
And it's so interesting, you know, I'm just
reflecting on that.
We don't get taught that at uni.
We get taught the mechanics.
We get taught all of theexercises, assessments.
But, you know, that art form ofcommunication is so vital for
getting good outcomes.
So I hear now a word on thestreet is that you're doing

(38:50):
Pilates, doing it really well,and that you are almost–
enjoying the feeling of pushingyourself into muscle soreness,
which is a huge leap for someonewho's gone from where you were.

(39:12):
So tell me, what do you thinkthe big leaps have been for you?
What are the big aha momentsthat have made you go, oh,
actually this is safe, this isokay to be doing?

SPEAKER_02 (39:22):
Yeah, look, I think that there was a point earlier
this year where I happened to beat work at Movement Solutions
and something, again, my back,there was no rhyme or reason to
it, but my back went again and Ilost, I suddenly, a spasm came

(39:44):
on and I hadn't experienced thatin almost a year.
The numbness returned in oneleg.
And I was, again, very fortunatethat I was surrounded by physios
the day that happened.
And it was more just theimmediate fear that gripped me

(40:04):
when that happened because I wasjust walking across the floor
and it just suddenly grabbed meand my leg gave out and I sort
of fell a little bit.
And I was, you know, helped ontolike one of the beds and I just
kind of lay there in my sort of,fear for a while while the spasm

(40:25):
stopped but it was sort of youknow chatting to some of the
girls as well like came in tocheck on me and just waiting for
it to die down a little bit andjust sort of like oh, it's
happening again and the world isending again.
This is the sudden devastationthat hits when all the hard work

(40:47):
goes out the window, that sortof thing.
But within, I think, two days,it went away and the feeling
came back and I was able to goback to work and everything was
fine.
And I think there was just thatmoment of, like, maybe I can,
maybe I am strong enough toovercome the times when this

(41:11):
happens.
And I think there was just amoment, it was a moment of very
rare confidence in my body oflike, oh, maybe I'm able to have
these days and also not havethem.
And so that sort of stuck withme for a really long time

(41:33):
afterwards of like just howquickly I bounce back compared
to you know, the two years thatI lost to it last time.
And so that's when I started,yeah, doing a little bit more
Pilates and things like that.

SPEAKER_01 (41:47):
Could that have been that you– it was a familiar
experience and so thereforethere was less– well, it's a
double-edged sword, isn't there?
There's the fear of, oh, my God,this is where we're going again
versus, well, I've been downthis track before.
I know last time what got mebetter was– getting out of bed

(42:08):
and doing some walking.
I think sometimes there's thefear, but there's also, I've got
through this before, confidence.
And whichever one wins out isthe rate at which you progress.
Because I think it takes a lotof mind control to not let your
mind go back into that.
And it takes a lot ofdecisiveness and confidence to

(42:32):
say, no, I've been here before.
I know what to do.
I can get through this.
I've got some strength in methis time around.
There's a familiarity.
You know, that whole, it's aninternal game, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 (42:42):
Yeah, it's a cycle.
It is a constant.
It's almost like, and it soundsmorbid, but it isn't, but it is
the grief cycle.
And it's always coming out onthe positive.
You will always cycle throughthe feelings that come with
losing something.
And it's kind of like, for meanyway, losing, feeling was a

(43:06):
really, really big thing.
And it's something that is veryprofoundly affects my mind for
however many reasons.
So having to very quicklyaccept, oh, I've lost something.

SPEAKER_03 (43:19):
And

SPEAKER_02 (43:20):
then being like, well, that's okay.
That's sad.
But also- it'll come back or itwon't.
And it's just going through theacceptance of whatever is
happening.
Um, and I think that for me,something like radical

(43:41):
acceptance is something that Ialways, I will preach it until I
am blue in the face.
It's always here.
This is your reality.
This is what's happening,whether you like it or not, it's
uncomfortable and it's yucky,but this is what's happening.
And also, um, Let's move forwardand find a positive to focus on.

(44:01):
Let's continue recovery becauserecovery is entirely within my
control.
It's entirely possible and it'sin view.
And that's something I need toremind myself of a lot because
for a long time it wasn't inview.
I didn't think it was possible.
So it's that sort of thing.

(44:21):
The positive that comes withthese flare-ups and things like
that as well is that I know whatbad pain feels like.
I know that this is dangerouspain I shouldn't work through as
opposed to the muscle sorenessthat comes from the micro tears
of building muscle.
Yeah, it's a good pain becauseit's building and it's a good

(44:43):
thing.
So it's being able to...
follow that experience with thatinformation.

SPEAKER_01 (44:50):
Yeah, I think being able to feel the difference in
the sensations and understandone is a green light, one is a
red light, and then, as you say,having the radical acceptance,
all right, I'm going to redlight right now.
And as you're talking about, youknow, there's grief because
you've lost.
I always think, yes, you've lostbut you've gained.

(45:11):
You gain space and time to bestill.
It may not be what you wantright now, but I always think
when something's heavy on oneside and my mind's only
perceiving one side, I know theopposite is also there too.
I kind of go, I'm feeling grief,I'm feeling loss, what have I

(45:32):
gained here?
Because it is that neutralizingof perspective that balances the
mind so that it can have radicalacceptance.
I think it's so hard to haveradical acceptance when your
mind only is perceiving theupside or the downside or the
positive.
And, you know, working towardsobjectivity is really a trained

(45:53):
skill, which Demartini's workreally, which is super valuable.
All right.
Top three tips for someone inback pain.
For someone where you were inthat bed all those many months
ago.
What would you like to sharewith someone who's probably
hopefully not listening fromtheir bed right now?

(46:14):
Hopefully, but if you are.
If you are, that's something tohold on to that might just get
them out of the bed and walkingaround the table.
But, yeah, how would you speakto them?
What would you be saying?
Three tips if you can come upwith it.

SPEAKER_02 (46:29):
Three things.
Look, I think that I've probablysaid all of them already, but
something that I really lovedAnd it's something that I
struggled with for a really longtime.
Someone said to me like, oh, youneed to have some inspirational
quotes or words that you loveand that inspire you and put
them up around the house.

(46:50):
And I'm just not good at that,at remembering things and at
looking at things and beinglike, you know, putting a quote
up and looking at it every dayand feeling inspired by it.
But so I had to really searchfor something that actually had
meaning to me that I couldactually use and something that
I ended up with was, um, always,or not always, but I guess try

(47:15):
to do the next best thing, whichis something I now live by
pretty heavily.
And it's basically just, andit's the thing of like, I am
aiming to do two laps around thetable, but I, if I, if not, then
I'll only do one or I reallystruggled to eat healthy because

(47:37):
I couldn't cook for myself soyou know I ate a bag of chips
for dinner but tomorrow I'mgonna have porridge you know
it's the it's just temperingthat fear of I've done something
detrimental that I can't recoverfrom and I think that's you know

(48:00):
when you're trying to um recoverfrom pain and stuff like that
it's so hard to look afteryourself and sometimes you make
less than stellar choices whenit comes to your health because
it's hard and so if you make adecision which is just like I
didn't do my exercises today andnow I feel terrible and you're

(48:22):
in that shame spiral becauseyou're not going to get better
if you don't do your exercisesum next best thing I can stretch
my arms while I'm in bed and Iand then I have done I exercise
so that's yeah doing the nextbest thing did save me a lot of
sanity over over that um that'snumber one number two radical

(48:46):
acceptance Just, it's

SPEAKER_03 (48:49):
something,

SPEAKER_02 (48:51):
yeah, it is something that I think should be
taught in schools.
It is a really important skill,I think.
It's just basically being ableto acknowledge your own,
acknowledging reality, whetheror not it's uncomfortable, it
doesn't, or if you don't like itor you want it to change, it
doesn't matter.
It's recognizing your ownfeelings within your reality

(49:11):
without judgment or trying tochange how you are feeling about
something.
It literally observing realityand how you feel in that
reality.
And from that point on, you canget to acceptance, which then
helps you to focus on what youcan do next.

SPEAKER_01 (49:30):
Yeah.
I was going to say the order ofthose two is almost radical
acceptance allows you to do yournext step, which is, you know,
take one step in that direction.
Yeah.
Cool.
And number three?

SPEAKER_02 (49:42):
Routine.
Routine.
I

SPEAKER_03 (49:45):
think that

SPEAKER_02 (49:47):
mentally I think look not people live in chaos
and people sometimes thrive inchaos and that is totally fine
I'm not saying that we shouldschedule every aspect of our day
but I think that it is soimportant for our own brains for
cognitive function to havethings to focus on have goals no

(50:09):
matter how small to be able tojust sort of keep your I guess
the helplessness that you cansometimes feel when you're in
that pain cycle of there'snothing I can do.
I'm in constant pain.
Well, today, you know, today'sMonday.
Monday is the day that I attemptto unload the dishwasher.

(50:30):
You know, it is literally just asmall thing that you do every
day that helps your brain to seeand form patterns.
And then it helps the brain, Iguess, the actual function of
forming patterns.
then becomes stronger, whichthen helps you later on.
I think routine is reallyimportant when it comes to just

(50:52):
overall cognitive ability, whichis something that I, um, The
fact that I felt that I had lostcognitive ability for so long
was something that was reallyhard for me to cope with.
For a long time I felt like theonly thing I had going for me

(51:12):
was that my ability to, I guess,speak and think and be able to
cope with however many thingsthat were thrown at me was my
ability to be able torationalise and logic my way out
of things.
And to not have access to thatwas so debilitating.

(51:35):
And yeah, just having thoselittle things that I could do to
strengthen that ability was Ithink something that really,
really helped.

SPEAKER_01 (51:45):
Yeah, it's funny.
I'm having all sorts of thoughtshearing you say that.
Some of them maybe you won'tlike, but I'll float them
because I know you.
I probably wouldn't with someoneI didn't know.
But it's almost like, you know,that your cognitive ability to
logic and articulate is a greattool way to avoid feeling and

(52:15):
being immobile in a bed youcan't move your way out of it
you can't think your way out ofit it's almost like you were set
up for a cesspit of highemotional experiencing which
Looking back, was there anyvalue in that for you?
I'm curious.
Definitely.

SPEAKER_02 (52:37):
But I think that my dissonance when it comes to my
own emotions is, I think, apowerful tool and just a real
awful thing to deal withsometimes.
But yes, the whole thing that Isaid earlier about having the
dysmorphia and then not beingable to relate to and

(53:01):
essentially losing the limbs fora really long time and not
really being able to cope withthis sudden anger and shame that
I had for my own body that I hadbeen able to, I guess, push away
for so long.
It really forced me to look atit in the eye.

(53:22):
And again, it was radicalacceptance.
It's not a comfortable thing.
It very rarely is.
Being able to look somethinglike your own, I guess, demons
so directly and realise, oh wow,there is a whole section of me
that I have not, that I haveneglected to look after.

(53:47):
And now it's, I'm alone with itfor an extended period of time.
So there was definitely somegood that came out of it, but I
would say that there are muchhealthier, safer ways of
confronting those feelings.

SPEAKER_01 (54:01):
Well, we can say that too, but I have a firm
belief that the body knows youbetter than you know you.
And if that's what it took foryou to go into those places,
then that's what it was going totake.
I think the lesson is, If wecould teach everyone to be, from
a young age, so happy to sit intheir own emotions and to sense

(54:22):
and feel and even the heavyones, not run from them, not
distract from them, just to feelthem, then maybe there are no
need for the big disablingepisodes in life.
But I don't know many of us likethat.
I think most of us don't.
naturally avoid feelinguncomfortable things because you
know we a we weren't taught thevalue of them and b they just

(54:45):
feel uncomfortable so it doestake a lot of self uh awareness
and connection to be able to sitand experience uncomfortable
stuff and um yeah i just wondernow what how would you sum up
your relationship with your bodynow have you reached a space of
total 100 percent love for thisphysical body that you live in

(55:10):
or is it a work in progress

SPEAKER_02 (55:12):
i wish that's how it worked um i think that i could
best describe it as more of a wehave a i have a much better
working relationship with mybody now um i probably listen to
i'm definitely still not greatat at listening like at the
moment i'm like this this week iam forcing myself to uh rest and

(55:36):
it is incredibly difficult.
I've gone from doing sort ofexercise for five to six days a
week down to, you know, two thisweek because I injured myself a
little bit last week.
So it is finding balance, but itis, I guess, that's improvement
in itself of listening to thesignals that my body gives me.

SPEAKER_01 (55:59):
My wish for you over time is that you actually, you
know, come to love it for allthat it allows you to do and
personally I think one of thebest ways to develop that
connection and love of ourphysical vessel is to is through
the senses you know I certainlywhen I was working on it would
sit and acknowledge the colorsthat my eyes could see and just

(56:23):
you know feel grateful for thefact I had eyes and then I'd
feel the sun on my body and gooh my god how good does that
feel or you know my bare feet oncool green grass and how lovely
does that feel and my taste budsand oh my God, the pleasure,
like really ramped up thisunderstanding that through my
senses is how my body wasdesigned to feed me pleasure,

(56:45):
which was, I think when you'vebeen in a lot of pain, that's
such a beautiful new experienceto understand that your body
isn't just a pain vessel.
It can give you so much pleasureif you create space and time to
focus on that, you know, and thesenses are touch, taste, all of

(57:06):
it.
Sound, beautiful music, youknow, that pleasure connection
is such a vital way to developlove for the physicality of our
experience.
That's the only way.
And moving eventually.
You know, I get it throughmovement in nature with music
outdoors.

(57:26):
You know, it feeds my love of myphysical body because it allows
me to do the things that bringme great pleasure.
But if you can't physically moveto get that even in stationary
being there's ways to build tothat so um yeah anyway that's
that's all that came to mindwell b final question first up

(57:48):
just thank you for being sohonest and raw with your
experience it sounds like hellon earth and um it's a real
testament to you that you'rewhere you are now on your
journey and obviously it's stillgoing um And that's okay.
Things take as long as theytake.
And as long as you feelprogress, you're winning.
But what would you, when I saybulletproof back, what is that,

(58:12):
what comes up in your mind whenI say that phrase?
Bulletproof back.

SPEAKER_02 (58:17):
I

SPEAKER_01 (58:17):
think

SPEAKER_02 (58:18):
that when you think of something that's bulletproof,
people often think of somethingthat deflects bullets.
But really, Bulletproof jacketsdon't necessarily deflect.
They absorb the main impact andrepel the bullet itself.

(58:41):
So I think that having abulletproof back means having
something that can absorb theimpact of whatever it is you're
doing, whether it's exercising,running, whether you have an
injury or if something justhappens as they can do
sometimes.

(59:02):
And of being able to absorb thatand then you know

SPEAKER_01 (59:06):
withstand and keep moving Great.
That's a nuanced version.
I love asking that questionbecause, you know, it just
always highlights to me when wesay words, how people hear them
or perceive them is so unique towho we are in our experience of
life and, yeah, it's one of mylittle games I like to play.

(59:27):
Yeah, I wasn't expecting that.
So thank you again for carvingout some time.
All our pets and animals behavedand, yeah, I wish you well on
your journey And, yeah, anyfinal closing thoughts you'd
like to share?

SPEAKER_02 (59:47):
Yeah, definitely thank you for having me.
I think that, look, if there'sanyone out there that is
listening from their bed at themoment, I think it's really
important just to hear thatyou're being, that, you know,
you're definitely not alone,even though it definitely may
feel like that.

UNKNOWN (01:00:07):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:00:07):
and that it's entirely possible to

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:10):
take a step forward.
I love that, Bea.
That's perfect.
I think we wrap it up on that.
And that step forward can be astiny as it needs to be.
But it's the decision to make itthat I think is the empowering
part as well.
And it takes, yeah, I had a newreframe on the word discipline

(01:00:33):
today.
It's funny.
I've always struggled with thatword.
It felt very heavy to me,discipline, and it felt like
depriving yourself of something.
But I was reflecting on it todayand I see it now as having the
discipline to take energy fromsomething that's sapping you and
invest it in something that'smoving you to where you want to

(01:00:54):
be and doesn't have to be rigid,doesn't have to be heavy,
doesn't have to be over the top.
It's a bit like your one smallstep.
It's like that consciousdecision that, I am where I am,
but I want to invest my energyinto being in a different place

(01:01:14):
in the future.
And what energy can I take nowand invest in that?
And that to me is discipline.
That's the decision that I wantto move forward with.
from where I am and what's myone thing, what's my one little

(01:01:36):
investment of that energy.
And it could be, like you said,it could be one little walk
around the table and it doesn'tmatter if you don't do the two,
you've still invested energy insomething.
It could even just be a thought,you know, it could be the energy
of just directing your thoughtsback into possibility rather
than the past.
All of those things take energy.

(01:01:56):
Your idea about the ritual is tostop the mental need to have
energy to make decisions.
All those three things youmentioned were about energy
management, which is great.
I think when you're in pain, youneed to do whatever's possible
to Have energy flow withouteffort.

(01:02:17):
And, yeah, I think you've reallyfound ways to do that
consciously or unconsciously.
But, yeah, I'm digressing again.
So let's wrap it up.
Thanks, Bea.
I'll see you at work.
One other thing I wanted tomention.
I really like having someone onthe front desk who has had their

(01:02:38):
own lived experience of pain.
How do you experience that?

SPEAKER_02 (01:02:45):
As in how do I experience the experience of
being on the desk?
More

SPEAKER_01 (01:02:52):
can you see when people come in in pain that you
see them.
You know, like you really seethem because you've been there.
I think there's something inthat that is,

SPEAKER_02 (01:03:05):
yeah.

UNKNOWN (01:03:05):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:03:06):
I definitely, yeah, there are definitely, I think,
and I'm sure everyone has theirown, the things that sort of
ping in their mind when theymeet people, especially the
other physios.
But yeah, I think there'sdefinitely certain things that I
have recognised in people thathave come in in the past that I

(01:03:28):
am, yeah, everyone's got theirown thing that they're more
susceptible to or they're moresensitive to and that helps
build the empathy with thatperson and that I know it's
something I've always trusted inwith my sort of work because it
helps me to provide the rightkind of care to the people that
I want to care for, if thatmakes sense.
As in I care for everyone thatcomes in.

(01:03:52):
But I know with mental healthand sort of me actually working
in that space, I've always,there are certain people that I
have met where I'm like, this iswhy I am in this.
face this is why I did thetraining and the TAFE and
everything like I wanted to helpthese people because these are

(01:04:13):
my people kind of thing and yeahI think that's um something that
i i love about admin is beingable to use that

SPEAKER_01 (01:04:24):
because people do walk in in all states don't they
and um i just think sometimes weeven forget how how walking into
a new space when you're in painis a big deal you know like it
takes a lot and if you're notgreeted with a smile or if
you're not given some directionabout you know where to be or

(01:04:44):
it's okay to wait or somethingit's just just some
acknowledgement that you'vewalked in, you know.
Yeah, I go to different variousplaces and I'm sometimes
pleasantly surprised andsometimes I'm like, oh, my God,
there's no humanity here.

SPEAKER_02 (01:05:00):
I think there was something that I, we did a
couple of modules of it in TAFE,but it's also something that I
was like, oh, oh, I understandnow.
If more places did this, I wouldfeel so much more, I guess,
appreciated as a person.
But it's the whole concept of,like, having neutral um like not

(01:05:22):
waiting areas but just likeareas that you walk into so for
people who are like on thespectrum or um i people with
like sensory issues things likethat like i know that there are
certain clients when they comein who i happen to know are
autistic or things like thatlike i'll make sure that i
haven't lit any candles or likeyou know for um you know is it

(01:05:44):
too bright in here will i turnthe big lights off like things
like that and i think that Iknow that a lot of places, like
you walk into, I think, is itAPM?
There's a few places that caterto people with disabilities and
things like that where I'm like,this is too bright.
This is not a welcoming place.
This is setting me off, letalone whoever else walks in.

(01:06:08):
So it's like, and thattranslates to people as well, I
think.
I think walking in and seeingand talking to someone at a
reception desk that you canIntel not even has to
understand, but just empathizesand is aware as opposed to thank
you for coming.
Please sit down.
Like that was sort of that.
Yeah.

(01:06:29):
So that's the sort of thing welike to do.
I like to be able to, Pick up onthat.
It's like a weird dopamine rushfor me.

SPEAKER_01 (01:06:39):
I think you pick up on it really well.
But I think you pick up on itreally well just because of your
lived experience, you know.
Yeah.
We're all better at somethingwhen we've been through it.
So that's the gaining.
There we go.
There's another for the gain onyour loss.
Anyway, thanks for your chat andI'll let you get on with your
day and I'll see you when I'mlooking at you.

SPEAKER_02 (01:07:00):
Yeah, next time you come in.

SPEAKER_01 (01:07:02):
Yeah.
See you, Bea.
All right.
Thanks, Madsie.

SPEAKER_02 (01:07:05):
See ya.

SPEAKER_00 (01:07:10):
As we wrap up another empowering episode of
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Dive deeper into Marion'stransformative approach to
banishing back pain by exploringher book, From Broken to

(01:07:31):
Bulletproof, Unconventional Waysto Banish Back Pain.
Discover the Bulletproof BacksSystem, a holistic framework
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