Sandra Palone of Sandra Palone & Associates shares her experiences as a small business owner with Chris Martin and Jon O'Brien of the Building PA Podcast.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jon O'Brien (00:00):
Hello, and welcome to another episode of building
Pennsylvania, a constructionpodcast for Pennsylvania's
construction industry.
Um, I am John O'Brien from theKeystone contractors
association.
And this is Chris Martin withAtlas marketing.
Hello, Chris, how are we doingtoday?
(00:21):
Oh, I'm doing well, John.
Hopefully our little technicalchallenges.
Aren't going to screw us up, butHey, we're doing really well.
Yes we are.
And let's hope.
Yeah.
Let's hope there's no issues.
We have a great, great guesttoday.
We have Sandra Palone fromPalone and associates.
Hello, Sandra.
Sandra Palone (00:39):
Hi.
And if I may Sandra Palone andassociates.
Jon O'Brien (00:44):
Oh, I'm sorry.
Oh, okay.
You got it.
Sorry about that mistake.
Welcome.
And today we want to talk abouta woman owned companies in the
industry and, uh, you know,you've been around a few years.
Well, you know, instead of me,why don't you just give us a
little history on your companyand give us, get us up to date
(01:05):
on your company?
Sandra Palone (01:07):
Sure.
Uh, let's see.
I'm going to try to keep thisbrief.
I opened the doors of SandraPalone and associates in 2015.
So we're about four and a halfnow.
Uh, it's been an interestingride.
I started the company as a,mainly a manufacturer's
(01:29):
representative for, uh,specialty precast concrete items
and construction.
Uh, that's my background and Ihave grown into also now
supplying of precast products,certain kinds.
And, uh, I also do someconsultation if you will.
(01:51):
Uh, whether it's in the form ofdoing onsite representation for
manufacturers of precast orother types of materials now.
Um, but, uh, that's, that'swhere we've gone from.
We've gone from being a rep, uh,to a rep and a supplier and also
to, uh, some consulting,
Jon O'Brien (02:10):
Pretty amazing four and a half years time flies.
Sandra Palone (02:15):
It feels like it flies.
And then it feels sometimes likeit's going very slowly.
Uh, but it's, uh, it's beenreally, really interesting.
Jon O'Brien (02:26):
And your, your market, is it public private and
what's, what's kind of yourterritory as far as what bridges
do you cover?
Sandra Palone (02:34):
So my primary, uh, market is Pennsylvania.
Uh, so quite honestly, uh, uh,whether it's Western
Pennsylvania center of theStates or in the Eastern part
all over Pennsylvania, midAtlantic overall, uh, I would
say that my secondary, uh, stateis Maryland at this time.
(02:57):
And those are, uh, the two areaswhere I have my, uh, WBE women
business center prize, uh,certifications as well.
So I spend a fair amount of time, uh, in the public sector, as
well as in commercialconstruction
Jon O'Brien (03:17):
And, and concerning the, uh, the certification, the
DBE certification.
You said two States, soPennsylvania and Maryland, any,
any lessons learned you'd liketo pass on the future company
owners or is that, or are we nothave enough time for that?
Sandra Palone (03:35):
Well, uh, I will say this if, um, I believe that
the women business enterprise orthe, what they call the
disadvantaged is what it'scurrently called.
It's kind of a, uh, a bit of aumbrella term disadvantaged
business enterprise, otherwiseknown as DBE.
(03:55):
Uh, I think that theseparticular types of agencies and
certifications are doing areally good work, trying to get
people like myself, uh, involved, uh, in projects and whether
that's, um, for a Penn dotproject or whether it's for a
(04:16):
transit project.
Um, these agencies do a verygood job of trying to do that.
I will say that it is not aneasy process getting certified.
Um, it's not showing up andsaying, Hey, I'm a woman.
Um, gosh, I'd really like acertification.
And that would be nice if itdoesn't work that way.
(04:37):
It's a very tedious process thatis, uh, based off of, um, mostly
your financials and to show thatyou have financial control of,
uh, of your company.
So I would say, go for it justdon't be daunted by the
paperwork.
Jon O'Brien (04:55):
I've heard that too.
And especially in the, you know,the marketing and advertising
industry are there.
It's, I mean, obviously it's thesame across the board, but
there's a lot of, uh, there's alot of call for minority and
women owned businesses, but, butSandra, you mentioned working
agencies, can you help ourlisteners understand what, what
(05:16):
agencies you work with and whatthat means?
Sandra Palone (05:19):
So there are agencies that do, what's called
a, like a third partycertification, and this is in a
sense, like an independent, uh,certification process.
And so what that means isinstead of self certifying, for
instance, going to the statewebsite and saying, I'm a woman
(05:42):
on business click it's, uh, it'sits own entity.
If you will, these agencies,these third parties, and they
actually have yes, a sort of afederal guideline as to what
type information that they askfrom you in order to determine,
uh, your status.
(06:04):
Uh, but they also have acomponent of an onsite audit,
uh, to ensure, uh, that a, youare who you say you are and be
that you do what you say you do.
Uh, so that is all a part of it.
And so one of the agencies, uh,that I am certified with that
this called the Pennsylvaniaunification, uh, certification.
(06:29):
I said that wrong.
So I'm going to repeat it, uh,is the Pennsylvania unified
certification program P a new CP, uh, and under that umbrella,
penn.is penn.is SoutheasternPennsylvania transport authority
and a host of other, um,government agencies such as in
(06:54):
my area, Allegheny County.
Jon O'Brien (06:57):
Okay.
So, so as you're, as you'reworking with these agencies,
obviously setting andestablishing your women business
owned company, are you seeingadvantages from that or are you
running into more challenges?
Sandra Palone (07:15):
Both.
Uh, and I'll describe what I'mtalking about.
The nice thing about it is, isit opens the door for me to, uh,
bid on all kinds of projects.
As I said, whether it's a dotproject, uh, perhaps it's
something with a County, maybeit's the turnpike or, or, uh,
(07:37):
SEPTA.
Uh, as I mentioned earlier, itgives me that opportunity to do
that in order to meet certaingoals, uh, that the general
contractors normally have tomeet the setback is, is that
there's a stigma out there.
Uh, and difficulty, sometimesgeneral contractors have with
(08:00):
their own kind of qualificationof, uh, people like myself to
ensure that they are going toget, uh, an, a one quality
supplier to make sure that it'snot just someone who's going to
be a pass through.
And so that's where the, I thinkthe real work, uh, is for a
(08:21):
company like myself todifferentiate myself.
Sometimes they have to give me ashot in order to see what I can
do for them.
And what I have available tothem is really my ability to
service them as much as possible, uh, any opportunity I can to
make their jobs a little easier.
(08:43):
That's how I distinguish myself.
So, and that's also how I breaksome of the stigma of what, um,
any woman business or adisadvantage business do
Jon O'Brien (08:57):
Then.
And do you, have you beeninvolved at all with any of the
DDS, the department of generalservices, any of their best
value projects?
Sandra Palone (09:05):
Well, I'm working towards one now.
Uh, we'll see how it turns out.
Um, there is a, uh, DNA test labthat has recently been bid, uh,
in Greensburg, Pennsylvania.
That's a DGS project.
Um, the types of projects that Igo after, don't always fall
(09:30):
under DGS were the ones that Ilook for, but we're not, but,
uh, but I do keep my eyes outfor them.
Jon O'Brien (09:38):
Yeah.
So over the past, you know, 15years DGS has been using best
value contracting and, you know,to, to applaud them, they've
been reaching out tostakeholders and various
construction associations andvarious DBEs and general
contractors, and they, I thinkthey really want to get it
right.
(09:59):
Um, when it comes to DBE and thebidding of a project, there have
been, you know, quite a fewblack eyes with a lot of pass
throughs, you know, assisting,you know, various contractors
and getting work.
And, and I think they're on the,on the right road, uh, to
correcting these issues.
(10:20):
I don't know.
I was just wondering if you'vebeen involved in any of these
peer groups or any of these, uh,feedback sessions that DGS
claims to be holding them, theyclaim to be holding these events
around the state.
Sandra Palone (10:32):
Uh, I have to say I haven't been a part of that,
but I do have an opinion and myopinion is that if, um, it, the
one way the great equalizer, youknow, the common denominator,
the way that things are checkedseems to be through amounts of
(10:55):
money, uh, on a project.
So if you have a hundred dollarproject and you need$12 of it to
be with a woman, uh, onbusiness, the easiest way to,
uh, to calculate that is to say,well, I'm buying$12 from this
company, uh, therefore, uh,check the box.
Uh, it's, it's just an easy wayto do it.
(11:17):
I personally think that beyondoffering a product, which tends
to push towards thispass-through scenario, uh, that
they should look more forcompanies to offer an expertise,
uh, in the form of say, if youwant to call it consulting
(11:39):
great.
And what I'm getting at is, uh,whether it be onsite
representation.
Um, as I started out saying, I,um, I started my business as a
manufacturer's rep, and youcould take that through a
project.
If you know what you're doing,uh, you could take your
(12:01):
expertise and understanding ofproduct and offering, uh, your
service, if you will, as avalue, add to a contractor, uh,
whether it be in the form of, um, really good communication, um,
uh, to make sure that anticipatea problem that you might see
down the road and take care ofit before it happens ways to
(12:24):
increase the quality of aproject, uh, which also reduces
the risk, uh, on a project forthe contractor, finding ways to
reduce risk.
Uh, I can't think of a betterway to add value to a project
than to help a contractor, uh,reduce their exposure.
(12:49):
So that's my opinion.
Okay.
Jon O'Brien (12:53):
And, and Sandra is, is risk exposure.
Is that something that you offerin your con consultation side of
your business?
Sandra Palone (13:00):
That is what I market that I am available to
work on projects in when I'mstaying in my lane of
understanding exactly theproduct and how it can help.
I try to at least stay in mylane on that in my specialties,
uh, as much as possible.
Um, but I do offer it and I findthat some people say, huh, well,
(13:26):
I don't know if we need that.
I mean, we have our projectmanagers and these people have
their project managers and Isay, yeah, that's true.
I get it.
But do you still have headaches?
Do you still have issues withgetting product?
Do you still have when theproduct comes?
Is there something not right.
You know, I like to see myselfas a bit of a conduit, some,
(13:47):
someone who can, uh, help thecontractor get the product that
they need when they need it.
And, uh, and it's just the partof my stamping on a project that
, uh, Sandra Palona associateswas here.
This product worked out reallygreat.
We're really happy with it.
It's not an easy sell, but most,I think, uh, new ideas, if you
(14:11):
will, uh, aren't, they're noteasy sells, they're a bit of an
uphill climb.
It is something that I continueto offer though, as a DBE, when
I'm reselling, that's whatthey're getting, they're buying
that they may be buying a bit ofa markup.
Uh, but the markup is me makingsure that's what the value add
(14:33):
is.
Jon O'Brien (14:35):
Okay.
So you're, you're focusedheavily on customer service and
to that point, yeah.
Um, to that point, customerservice is kind of one of those
non-entities, if you will, andthe, of construct the
construction industry.
So can you talk a little bitabout how that customer service
(14:56):
approach, as it relates to theconstruction industry is really
beneficial.
Sandra Palone (15:03):
So if I am offering architectural precast
to a Mason on a project and hecalls and he says, Hey, there
were supposed to be a 10 pallets, we got nine.
Uh, is he calling themanufacturer?
No, he's calling me, he'scalling me.
(15:23):
And he's saying, what's going onwith us?
That's the, that's when I go towork and do what I've got to do.
So that's what I'm trying tobuild.
I'm trying to build some trustthat I'm a seamless part of
their operation, that I'm justanother person on their team.
And I'm the one they're going tocall for the product that they
(15:46):
have come to me for.
So regardless if everything'sgreat, and if everything's so,
so, or if there's a hiccup,that's, uh, that's what I think
really helps.
And here's how you can tell ifit works, do they call you again
to quote something else and towork on another project that
(16:06):
they have?
That's really the best way tomeasure if you've done a good
job, in my opinion.
And, uh, that's, that's where Ioperate from this sort of lather
rinse, repeat, uh, type ofmentality based off a service.
So it is a non-tangible right?
You can't, it's, it's somethingyou can't say.
(16:28):
Well, that value was worth issort of that, but it is
something that, uh, everyproject needs
Jon O'Brien (16:36):
Definitely.
Yeah.
Customer service very importantand, uh, definitely helps on
future projects.
Um, but if you don't mind, canwe, uh, maybe travel back a
little bit?
Can we go back four and a halfyears?
So was there a moment that like,you know what, I should start my
own business and, and also alongthere also along those lines
(16:56):
where you, where you'refortunate or where you're able
to have any sort of mentors orcoaches to kind of help you
along.
So take me back to 2016, what'sit like?
Sandra Palone (17:09):
Yeah, it's a little scary.
Yeah.
2016, you know, I'll say thisfor those who, who just take a
plunge into, uh, working foryourself, it may help to, to
remain a teeny bit naive andextremely optimistic, uh, which
is exactly what I had done.
(17:31):
Um, I didn't have a whole lotgoing on at the time and early
2016.
So let me just give a shout outas to what happened.
And, uh, I have a mentor.
Her name is Laura hook Kirkoff.
Uh, I worked for Laura at myfirst precast plant, uh, known
as Cass Cron stone and, uh, theSaxon Burg, Pennsylvania area.
(17:56):
She's the one who taught meeverything about precast.
She's the one who taught meabout attention to detail.
She was the first woman onbusiness that I ever worked for.
They're third generation familyowned business.
And, um, she's, she was the bestmentor a person could have.
She was respected by architects,engineers, and by contractors,
(18:19):
which is not an easy feat.
Uh, I'll say that.
So kudos to Laura.
Uh, luckily I, I do representher product line, uh, and it's
excellent stuff today.
So I, I stay in touch.
Uh, you remember the recessionthat happened, uh, cast con
stone was a, a precastermanufacturer.
(18:42):
We were extremely specialized inthe type of precast that we did.
And, uh, the recession, uh, whenit came along, there was very
little vertical construction,uh, being built and being that
we made 99% of what we did atthat time was precast stairs.
And we sold to precast, um, uh,garage, uh, uh, producers.
(19:08):
So there wasn't a whole lot ofthat business going on.
So we had some pretty, prettyslow years where we were trying
to pick up the pieces and findother things to quote, and
everybody was trying to quotethe same work and there really
wasn't much to be had.
So we basically scraped by for along while.
(19:29):
And, um, at the end of my tenurethere, I was, uh, went from a
salary employee to a full timecommission and employee because,
uh, you know, we didn't reallyhave enough work to, to, to pay
everybody a paycheck.
So if I sold something I'd mademoney and I thought these people
(19:49):
have taken care of me, I'm goingto, you know, I'm going to
invest myself into these guysgetting back to where, uh, to
where that they worked.
And, um, so we did that problemwas in 2011.
Uh, the bills came due and, uh,over the course of that time,
(20:10):
even though we were making moneyagain, and the business, the
economy had increased, you know,the bills became due and the
company went bankrupt and it was, uh, it was a real shocker.
So I was one of the statisticsalong with everybody else that I
worked with, uh, includingLaura, who lost, uh, their job.
(20:34):
And so I like a lot of otherpeople were thinking, what am I
going to do now?
Um, it was still not the bestmarket.
And I went out to, uh, several,uh, other precast companies and
interviewed and had a couple ofoffers.
And, um, I waited, uh, and meand a couple of my other
(21:00):
colleagues, uh, helped reopenthe plant when it was bought by
another company.
And I'm really glad I did that.
So I got the experience ofknowing what that's like to kind
of reopen something that wasshut down.
It was difficult to gain thetrust back of our initial
customers, but, uh, but we wereable to do it.
(21:21):
Um, something had happened to methough in that timeframe.
And I didn't quite understandwhat it was is this little boy
saying, I'm not sure if I'msupposed to be here.
Uh, even though we had, uh,hired back many of the same old
people, um, I just didn't feel Iwas part of the culture of the
(21:41):
larger company.
And I decided to take anotheropportunity with, uh, with a
small civil engineering firm,uh, not too far away that did
also did land surveying.
And I got to, uh, learn what itis to, uh, be on the front end
of projects that are beingdesigned from, from the site,
(22:02):
whether it be a Penn doc typeproject or whether it be a
commercial project.
So it was great experience, butagain, I felt, I don't know what
I'm doing, uh, if I'm going tobe here full time.
I just, uh, and what I mean bythat is, I don't know if I'm
going to stick around.
I just had this little ninething in the back of my mind.
(22:24):
And, uh, so in 2015, uh, youknow, like I applied for my, uh,
EIN and basically packed up mystuff without a whole lot of
commitment from companies to repand said, I'm going to give this
a shot.
And that's what I did.
I, uh, I took a plunge from aperfectly good paying job and
(22:49):
decided to go into poverty for alittle while
Speaker 3 (22:53):
Just to try
Sandra Palone (22:54):
It out.
And, um, at first it was reallyexhilarating, but it got a
little scary going, wow.
Now I, I, I did that.
I left a paying job in order towork on my own.
So it really instilled in me,I've got to do it now, now's the
time.
And I was 50 and at the time Iwas 50 and I figured if I'm
(23:15):
going to do it, now's the time.
So that's what I did.
And, uh, so with themanufacturing representation, I
figured I could, uh, rep for afew of these companies.
And I mean, I don't have themoney to build my own precast
plants very expensive.
So it would be kind of a niceway for me to get back into the
(23:38):
industry.
And I know I could make animpact
Speaker 3 (23:41):
Or a few years later and look at you,
Sandra Palone (23:50):
Go ahead.
Jon O'Brien (23:51):
I was getting ready to say that that Tim was, have
kind of turned them.
So are you mentoring instead ofseeking for advice?
Are you helping out otherpeople?
Sandra Palone (24:01):
Um, I do help out a few people, uh, and I do still
have mentors.
Uh, Laura has been a greatmentor over the years, uh, but I
do have other people, um, in mylife that mentor me and other
entrepreneurs that sort of tookthe splash, uh, around the same
(24:22):
time when we get together.
When we talk about, uh, Hey,this is happening for me.
Um, is this happening for you?
So, um, it's really, reallygreat to be able to, to do that.
I, you know, and certainly I, Itake a, I take a course here and
there, um, uh, in order to do acombination of, of networking
(24:47):
and also, um, learning.
And what I mean is, uh, placeslike UPFC, uh, university of
Pittsburgh medical center willhave construction management,
um, seminars that they offer.
So it's an opportunity tonetwork, but it's also an
(25:07):
opportunity to learn how they,um, how they expect a company
like mine to work with them.
Jon O'Brien (25:16):
Well, it sounds like you're just continuously
learning and moving forward, sokudos to you for that.
That's fantastic.
And obviously, you know, in apredominantly male dominated
industry, it sounds like you're,you're making headway and moving
things along.
So congratulations.
Sandra Palone (25:35):
Thank you.
I appreciate that.
Jon O'Brien (25:37):
And I know how much fun it is to start off on your
own.
I started my own business about11 years ago and, uh, then a lot
of sleepless nights.
I know that I feel
Sandra Palone (25:51):
Times I joke and I say, gosh, you know, um, who's
the boss around here.
And then I have to point thefinger back at me.
Good.
If there's any problems they'remind to solve there, can't
deflect.
Uh, so there are times thoughthat I'd really like to deflect,
but, um, I don't have thatluxury right now.
(26:15):
So yeah,
Jon O'Brien (26:18):
I too, just want to echo Chris, you know, it's, uh,
he's doing a great job and to becommended and, you know, just
glad to know you and, uh, thankyou.
Yeah.
Any other like major lessonslearned you'd like to share with
our audience, anyone thatthey're thinking of taking the
plunge and starting their owncompany, any, anything major
(26:38):
you'd like to talk about?
Sandra Palone (26:40):
I would just like to say that don't have the
regret of not doing it.
I am so grateful that I finallytook the plunge and it's a self
employment.
And just to, just to get outthere and put my name out there,
sometimes it's a little scary atfirst, you put your own name on
(27:02):
the company and you do thatbecause you want people to know
that the buck stops with you.
Uh, when you first start out,sometimes there's a sense of
imposter syndrome, like, Oh, whoam I to be telling, you know,
these people, how I can helpthem.
And then you get over it becauseyou get hungry and you realize
(27:23):
that you have to take all thesesteps in order to prove this.
And, uh, I would say do itbecause not doing it is, uh,
you'd regret it.
I know that I would regret this.
If I didn't do it, what's theworst thing that could happen.
I could fail.
Okay.
But at least I had tried it and,uh, somebody liked me.
(27:44):
I would regret not trying it.
So I say do it.
And I also say that if there'san opportunity to work on a
bigger project than what you'reused to working on, uh, talk to
your mentors and basically workup the confidence and pursue it,
just do it.
I went from working on my veryfirst project was a$6,500
(28:08):
project.
And I had to beg that person togive me that work just so that I
could get it.
Uh, and my largest contract todate, uh, is one point$2
million.
Uh, so we've gone from 6,500 to1.2 million.
So I say, go for it,
Jon O'Brien (28:28):
Bravo.
Yeah, that's awesome.
And, uh, you know, I don't, youknow, I'm a supporter fan of
yours and, uh, if you ever needanything, you know, think of,
think of KCA.
We're always here to help, um,DGS reaches out, like I said,
from time to time for feedbackduring the bidding process.
And, and, uh, if you ever haveany input you want me to pass
(28:50):
on, you know, just, just let meknow.
And, uh, we're here to help.
Sandra Palone (28:54):
Thank you.
And John, I want to say thisabout the KCA.
You guys have been great to me,and I appreciate that very much.
And I want to say that thosesafety talks, uh, that you send,
um, I use those as an onsiterepresentative for UPFC, uh,
with the contract, a company Iworked with every morning as a
(29:17):
safety meeting.
I want you to know that thosewent to good use.
Jon O'Brien (29:21):
Awesome.
That's always great to hear.
I always wonder if peopleactually opened on my Monday
morning.
It's always good to hear that.
So thank you, Sean.
Oh, no.
It's like, yeah, thanks.
I'll make sure to pass the pastthat good word on to the staff.
I heard a collective.
Oh, thank goodness.
Sandra Palone (29:43):
They're worth it.
Jon O'Brien (29:45):
That's good.
Well, Sandra, thank you so muchfor joining us and sharing your,
uh, your insight.
Um, it was, uh, it was great tohear from you and, uh, most
importantly, uh, as a listener,uh, download more episodes, more
coming, uh, reach out to Sandra.
(30:07):
Uh, and in fact, Sandra, how canhappen?
Somebody to get ahold of you?
Sandra Palone (30:11):
So you can call me, uh, you can call Sandra
Palone and associates.
You can call me at(412) 965-0069, or you can email
me@slpatsandrapalone.net.
And if you would like to see, uh, what I do feel free to
(30:35):
look@mywebsiteatsandrapalone.net.
Jon O'Brien (30:37):
Perfect.
Perfect.
Well, thank you.
Thanks for joining us on thebuilding PA podcast.
And as I mentioned before,there's going to be a lot more
episodes coming.
So make sure you download andshare with your colleagues in
the office and thank you forjoining us today.
(30:57):
Shandra, my pleasure.
Thanks.
Thank you.
And all the best to you thisyear and beyond.
So keep it up.
Sandra Palone (31:04):
Thank you.
Take care.
Jon O'Brien (31:06):
Alright.
See ya.
Hello, and welcome to another episode of building
Pennsylvania, a constructionpodcast for Pennsylvania's
construction industry.
Um, I am John O'Brien from theKeystone contractors
association.
And this is Chris Martin withAtlas marketing.
Hello, Chris, how are we doingtoday?
(00:21):
Oh, I'm doing well, John.
Hopefully our little technicalchallenges.
Aren't going to screw us up, butHey, we're doing really well.
Yes we are.
And let's hope.
Yeah.
Let's hope there's no issues.
We have a great, great guesttoday.
We have Sandra Palone fromPalone and associates.
Hello, Sandra.
Sandra Palone (00:39):
Hi.
And if I may Sandra Palone andassociates.
Jon O'Brien (00:44):
Oh, I'm sorry.
Oh, okay.
You got it.
Sorry about that mistake.
Welcome.
And today we want to talk abouta woman owned companies in the
industry and, uh, you know,you've been around a few years.
Well, you know, instead of me,why don't you just give us a
little history on your companyand give us, get us up to date
(01:05):
on your company?
Sandra Palone (01:07):
Sure.
Uh, let's see.
I'm going to try to keep thisbrief.
I opened the doors of SandraPalone and associates in 2015.
So we're about four and a halfnow.
Uh, it's been an interestingride.
I started the company as a,mainly a manufacturer's
(01:29):
representative for, uh,specialty precast concrete items
and construction.
Uh, that's my background and Ihave grown into also now
supplying of precast products,certain kinds.
And, uh, I also do someconsultation if you will.
(01:51):
Uh, whether it's in the form ofdoing onsite representation for
manufacturers of precast orother types of materials now.
Um, but, uh, that's, that'swhere we've gone from.
We've gone from being a rep, uh,to a rep and a supplier and also
to, uh, some consulting,
Jon O'Brien (02:10):
Pretty amazing four and a half years time flies.
Sandra Palone (02:15):
It feels like it flies.
And then it feels sometimes likeit's going very slowly.
Uh, but it's, uh, it's beenreally, really interesting.
Jon O'Brien (02:26):
And your, your market, is it public private and
what's, what's kind of yourterritory as far as what bridges
do you cover?
Sandra Palone (02:34):
So my primary, uh, market is Pennsylvania.
Uh, so quite honestly, uh, uh,whether it's Western
Pennsylvania center of theStates or in the Eastern part
all over Pennsylvania, midAtlantic overall, uh, I would
say that my secondary, uh, stateis Maryland at this time.
(02:57):
And those are, uh, the two areaswhere I have my, uh, WBE women
business center prize, uh,certifications as well.
So I spend a fair amount of time, uh, in the public sector, as
well as in commercialconstruction
Jon O'Brien (03:17):
And, and concerning the, uh, the certification, the
DBE certification.
You said two States, soPennsylvania and Maryland, any,
any lessons learned you'd liketo pass on the future company
owners or is that, or are we nothave enough time for that?
Sandra Palone (03:35):
Well, uh, I will say this if, um, I believe that
the women business enterprise orthe, what they call the
disadvantaged is what it'scurrently called.
It's kind of a, uh, a bit of aumbrella term disadvantaged
business enterprise, otherwiseknown as DBE.
(03:55):
Uh, I think that theseparticular types of agencies and
certifications are doing areally good work, trying to get
people like myself, uh, involved, uh, in projects and whether
that's, um, for a Penn dotproject or whether it's for a
(04:16):
transit project.
Um, these agencies do a verygood job of trying to do that.
I will say that it is not aneasy process getting certified.
Um, it's not showing up andsaying, Hey, I'm a woman.
Um, gosh, I'd really like acertification.
And that would be nice if itdoesn't work that way.
(04:37):
It's a very tedious process thatis, uh, based off of, um, mostly
your financials and to show thatyou have financial control of,
uh, of your company.
So I would say, go for it justdon't be daunted by the
paperwork.
Jon O'Brien (04:55):
I've heard that too.
And especially in the, you know,the marketing and advertising
industry are there.
It's, I mean, obviously it's thesame across the board, but
there's a lot of, uh, there's alot of call for minority and
women owned businesses, but, butSandra, you mentioned working
agencies, can you help ourlisteners understand what, what
(05:16):
agencies you work with and whatthat means?
Sandra Palone (05:19):
So there are agencies that do, what's called
a, like a third partycertification, and this is in a
sense, like an independent, uh,certification process.
And so what that means isinstead of self certifying, for
instance, going to the statewebsite and saying, I'm a woman
(05:42):
on business click it's, uh, it'sits own entity.
If you will, these agencies,these third parties, and they
actually have yes, a sort of afederal guideline as to what
type information that they askfrom you in order to determine,
uh, your status.
(06:04):
Uh, but they also have acomponent of an onsite audit,
uh, to ensure, uh, that a, youare who you say you are and be
that you do what you say you do.
Uh, so that is all a part of it.
And so one of the agencies, uh,that I am certified with that
this called the Pennsylvaniaunification, uh, certification.
(06:29):
I said that wrong.
So I'm going to repeat it, uh,is the Pennsylvania unified
certification program P a new CP, uh, and under that umbrella,
penn.is penn.is SoutheasternPennsylvania transport authority
and a host of other, um,government agencies such as in
(06:54):
my area, Allegheny County.
Jon O'Brien (06:57):
Okay.
So, so as you're, as you'reworking with these agencies,
obviously setting andestablishing your women business
owned company, are you seeingadvantages from that or are you
running into more challenges?
Sandra Palone (07:15):
Both.
Uh, and I'll describe what I'mtalking about.
The nice thing about it is, isit opens the door for me to, uh,
bid on all kinds of projects.
As I said, whether it's a dotproject, uh, perhaps it's
something with a County, maybeit's the turnpike or, or, uh,
(07:37):
SEPTA.
Uh, as I mentioned earlier, itgives me that opportunity to do
that in order to meet certaingoals, uh, that the general
contractors normally have tomeet the setback is, is that
there's a stigma out there.
Uh, and difficulty, sometimesgeneral contractors have with
(08:00):
their own kind of qualificationof, uh, people like myself to
ensure that they are going toget, uh, an, a one quality
supplier to make sure that it'snot just someone who's going to
be a pass through.
And so that's where the, I thinkthe real work, uh, is for a
(08:21):
company like myself todifferentiate myself.
Sometimes they have to give me ashot in order to see what I can
do for them.
And what I have available tothem is really my ability to
service them as much as possible, uh, any opportunity I can to
make their jobs a little easier.
(08:43):
That's how I distinguish myself.
So, and that's also how I breaksome of the stigma of what, um,
any woman business or adisadvantage business do
Jon O'Brien (08:57):
Then.
And do you, have you beeninvolved at all with any of the
DDS, the department of generalservices, any of their best
value projects?
Sandra Palone (09:05):
Well, I'm working towards one now.
Uh, we'll see how it turns out.
Um, there is a, uh, DNA test labthat has recently been bid, uh,
in Greensburg, Pennsylvania.
That's a DGS project.
Um, the types of projects that Igo after, don't always fall
(09:30):
under DGS were the ones that Ilook for, but we're not, but,
uh, but I do keep my eyes outfor them.
Jon O'Brien (09:38):
Yeah.
So over the past, you know, 15years DGS has been using best
value contracting and, you know,to, to applaud them, they've
been reaching out tostakeholders and various
construction associations andvarious DBEs and general
contractors, and they, I thinkthey really want to get it
right.
(09:59):
Um, when it comes to DBE and thebidding of a project, there have
been, you know, quite a fewblack eyes with a lot of pass
throughs, you know, assisting,you know, various contractors
and getting work.
And, and I think they're on the,on the right road, uh, to
correcting these issues.
(10:20):
I don't know.
I was just wondering if you'vebeen involved in any of these
peer groups or any of these, uh,feedback sessions that DGS
claims to be holding them, theyclaim to be holding these events
around the state.
Sandra Palone (10:32):
Uh, I have to say I haven't been a part of that,
but I do have an opinion and myopinion is that if, um, it, the
one way the great equalizer, youknow, the common denominator,
the way that things are checkedseems to be through amounts of
(10:55):
money, uh, on a project.
So if you have a hundred dollarproject and you need$12 of it to
be with a woman, uh, onbusiness, the easiest way to,
uh, to calculate that is to say,well, I'm buying$12 from this
company, uh, therefore, uh,check the box.
Uh, it's, it's just an easy wayto do it.
(11:17):
I personally think that beyondoffering a product, which tends
to push towards thispass-through scenario, uh, that
they should look more forcompanies to offer an expertise,
uh, in the form of say, if youwant to call it consulting
(11:39):
great.
And what I'm getting at is, uh,whether it be onsite
representation.
Um, as I started out saying, I,um, I started my business as a
manufacturer's rep, and youcould take that through a
project.
If you know what you're doing,uh, you could take your
(12:01):
expertise and understanding ofproduct and offering, uh, your
service, if you will, as avalue, add to a contractor, uh,
whether it be in the form of, um, really good communication, um,
uh, to make sure that anticipatea problem that you might see
down the road and take care ofit before it happens ways to
(12:24):
increase the quality of aproject, uh, which also reduces
the risk, uh, on a project forthe contractor, finding ways to
reduce risk.
Uh, I can't think of a betterway to add value to a project
than to help a contractor, uh,reduce their exposure.
(12:49):
So that's my opinion.
Okay.
Jon O'Brien (12:53):
And, and Sandra is, is risk exposure.
Is that something that you offerin your con consultation side of
your business?
Sandra Palone (13:00):
That is what I market that I am available to
work on projects in when I'mstaying in my lane of
understanding exactly theproduct and how it can help.
I try to at least stay in mylane on that in my specialties,
uh, as much as possible.
Um, but I do offer it and I findthat some people say, huh, well,
(13:26):
I don't know if we need that.
I mean, we have our projectmanagers and these people have
their project managers and Isay, yeah, that's true.
I get it.
But do you still have headaches?
Do you still have issues withgetting product?
Do you still have when theproduct comes?
Is there something not right.
You know, I like to see myselfas a bit of a conduit, some,
(13:47):
someone who can, uh, help thecontractor get the product that
they need when they need it.
And, uh, and it's just the partof my stamping on a project that
, uh, Sandra Palona associateswas here.
This product worked out reallygreat.
We're really happy with it.
It's not an easy sell, but most,I think, uh, new ideas, if you
(14:11):
will, uh, aren't, they're noteasy sells, they're a bit of an
uphill climb.
It is something that I continueto offer though, as a DBE, when
I'm reselling, that's whatthey're getting, they're buying
that they may be buying a bit ofa markup.
Uh, but the markup is me makingsure that's what the value add
(14:33):
is.
Jon O'Brien (14:35):
Okay.
So you're, you're focusedheavily on customer service and
to that point, yeah.
Um, to that point, customerservice is kind of one of those
non-entities, if you will, andthe, of construct the
construction industry.
So can you talk a little bitabout how that customer service
(14:56):
approach, as it relates to theconstruction industry is really
beneficial.
Sandra Palone (15:03):
So if I am offering architectural precast
to a Mason on a project and hecalls and he says, Hey, there
were supposed to be a 10 pallets, we got nine.
Uh, is he calling themanufacturer?
No, he's calling me, he'scalling me.
(15:23):
And he's saying, what's going onwith us?
That's the, that's when I go towork and do what I've got to do.
So that's what I'm trying tobuild.
I'm trying to build some trustthat I'm a seamless part of
their operation, that I'm justanother person on their team.
And I'm the one they're going tocall for the product that they
(15:46):
have come to me for.
So regardless if everything'sgreat, and if everything's so,
so, or if there's a hiccup,that's, uh, that's what I think
really helps.
And here's how you can tell ifit works, do they call you again
to quote something else and towork on another project that
(16:06):
they have?
That's really the best way tomeasure if you've done a good
job, in my opinion.
And, uh, that's, that's where Ioperate from this sort of lather
rinse, repeat, uh, type ofmentality based off a service.
So it is a non-tangible right?
You can't, it's, it's somethingyou can't say.
(16:28):
Well, that value was worth issort of that, but it is
something that, uh, everyproject needs
Jon O'Brien (16:36):
Definitely.
Yeah.
Customer service very importantand, uh, definitely helps on
future projects.
Um, but if you don't mind, canwe, uh, maybe travel back a
little bit?
Can we go back four and a halfyears?
So was there a moment that like,you know what, I should start my
own business and, and also alongthere also along those lines
(16:56):
where you, where you'refortunate or where you're able
to have any sort of mentors orcoaches to kind of help you
along.
So take me back to 2016, what'sit like?
Sandra Palone (17:09):
Yeah, it's a little scary.
Yeah.
2016, you know, I'll say thisfor those who, who just take a
plunge into, uh, working foryourself, it may help to, to
remain a teeny bit naive andextremely optimistic, uh, which
is exactly what I had done.
(17:31):
Um, I didn't have a whole lotgoing on at the time and early
2016.
So let me just give a shout outas to what happened.
And, uh, I have a mentor.
Her name is Laura hook Kirkoff.
Uh, I worked for Laura at myfirst precast plant, uh, known
as Cass Cron stone and, uh, theSaxon Burg, Pennsylvania area.
(17:56):
She's the one who taught meeverything about precast.
She's the one who taught meabout attention to detail.
She was the first woman onbusiness that I ever worked for.
They're third generation familyowned business.
And, um, she's, she was the bestmentor a person could have.
She was respected by architects,engineers, and by contractors,
(18:19):
which is not an easy feat.
Uh, I'll say that.
So kudos to Laura.
Uh, luckily I, I do representher product line, uh, and it's
excellent stuff today.
So I, I stay in touch.
Uh, you remember the recessionthat happened, uh, cast con
stone was a, a precastermanufacturer.
(18:42):
We were extremely specialized inthe type of precast that we did.
And, uh, the recession, uh, whenit came along, there was very
little vertical construction,uh, being built and being that
we made 99% of what we did atthat time was precast stairs.
And we sold to precast, um, uh,garage, uh, uh, producers.
(19:08):
So there wasn't a whole lot ofthat business going on.
So we had some pretty, prettyslow years where we were trying
to pick up the pieces and findother things to quote, and
everybody was trying to quotethe same work and there really
wasn't much to be had.
So we basically scraped by for along while.
(19:29):
And, um, at the end of my tenurethere, I was, uh, went from a
salary employee to a full timecommission and employee because,
uh, you know, we didn't reallyhave enough work to, to, to pay
everybody a paycheck.
So if I sold something I'd mademoney and I thought these people
(19:49):
have taken care of me, I'm goingto, you know, I'm going to
invest myself into these guysgetting back to where, uh, to
where that they worked.
And, um, so we did that problemwas in 2011.
Uh, the bills came due and, uh,over the course of that time,
(20:10):
even though we were making moneyagain, and the business, the
economy had increased, you know,the bills became due and the
company went bankrupt and it was, uh, it was a real shocker.
So I was one of the statisticsalong with everybody else that I
worked with, uh, includingLaura, who lost, uh, their job.
(20:34):
And so I like a lot of otherpeople were thinking, what am I
going to do now?
Um, it was still not the bestmarket.
And I went out to, uh, several,uh, other precast companies and
interviewed and had a couple ofoffers.
And, um, I waited, uh, and meand a couple of my other
(21:00):
colleagues, uh, helped reopenthe plant when it was bought by
another company.
And I'm really glad I did that.
So I got the experience ofknowing what that's like to kind
of reopen something that wasshut down.
It was difficult to gain thetrust back of our initial
customers, but, uh, but we wereable to do it.
(21:21):
Um, something had happened to methough in that timeframe.
And I didn't quite understandwhat it was is this little boy
saying, I'm not sure if I'msupposed to be here.
Uh, even though we had, uh,hired back many of the same old
people, um, I just didn't feel Iwas part of the culture of the
(21:41):
larger company.
And I decided to take anotheropportunity with, uh, with a
small civil engineering firm,uh, not too far away that did
also did land surveying.
And I got to, uh, learn what itis to, uh, be on the front end
of projects that are beingdesigned from, from the site,
(22:02):
whether it be a Penn doc typeproject or whether it be a
commercial project.
So it was great experience, butagain, I felt, I don't know what
I'm doing, uh, if I'm going tobe here full time.
I just, uh, and what I mean bythat is, I don't know if I'm
going to stick around.
I just had this little ninething in the back of my mind.
(22:24):
And, uh, so in 2015, uh, youknow, like I applied for my, uh,
EIN and basically packed up mystuff without a whole lot of
commitment from companies to repand said, I'm going to give this
a shot.
And that's what I did.
I, uh, I took a plunge from aperfectly good paying job and
(22:49):
decided to go into poverty for alittle while
Speaker 3 (22:53):
Just to try
Sandra Palone (22:54):
It out.
And, um, at first it was reallyexhilarating, but it got a
little scary going, wow.
Now I, I, I did that.
I left a paying job in order towork on my own.
So it really instilled in me,I've got to do it now, now's the
time.
And I was 50 and at the time Iwas 50 and I figured if I'm
(23:15):
going to do it, now's the time.
So that's what I did.
And, uh, so with themanufacturing representation, I
figured I could, uh, rep for afew of these companies.
And I mean, I don't have themoney to build my own precast
plants very expensive.
So it would be kind of a niceway for me to get back into the
(23:38):
industry.
And I know I could make animpact
Speaker 3 (23:41):
Or a few years later and look at you,
Sandra Palone (23:50):
Go ahead.
Jon O'Brien (23:51):
I was getting ready to say that that Tim was, have
kind of turned them.
So are you mentoring instead ofseeking for advice?
Are you helping out otherpeople?
Sandra Palone (24:01):
Um, I do help out a few people, uh, and I do still
have mentors.
Uh, Laura has been a greatmentor over the years, uh, but I
do have other people, um, in mylife that mentor me and other
entrepreneurs that sort of tookthe splash, uh, around the same
(24:22):
time when we get together.
When we talk about, uh, Hey,this is happening for me.
Um, is this happening for you?
So, um, it's really, reallygreat to be able to, to do that.
I, you know, and certainly I, Itake a, I take a course here and
there, um, uh, in order to do acombination of, of networking
(24:47):
and also, um, learning.
And what I mean is, uh, placeslike UPFC, uh, university of
Pittsburgh medical center willhave construction management,
um, seminars that they offer.
So it's an opportunity tonetwork, but it's also an
(25:07):
opportunity to learn how they,um, how they expect a company
like mine to work with them.
Jon O'Brien (25:16):
Well, it sounds like you're just continuously
learning and moving forward, sokudos to you for that.
That's fantastic.
And obviously, you know, in apredominantly male dominated
industry, it sounds like you're,you're making headway and moving
things along.
So congratulations.
Sandra Palone (25:35):
Thank you.
I appreciate that.
Jon O'Brien (25:37):
And I know how much fun it is to start off on your
own.
I started my own business about11 years ago and, uh, then a lot
of sleepless nights.
I know that I feel
Sandra Palone (25:51):
Times I joke and I say, gosh, you know, um, who's
the boss around here.
And then I have to point thefinger back at me.
Good.
If there's any problems they'remind to solve there, can't
deflect.
Uh, so there are times thoughthat I'd really like to deflect,
but, um, I don't have thatluxury right now.
(26:15):
So yeah,
Jon O'Brien (26:18):
I too, just want to echo Chris, you know, it's, uh,
he's doing a great job and to becommended and, you know, just
glad to know you and, uh, thankyou.
Yeah.
Any other like major lessonslearned you'd like to share with
our audience, anyone thatthey're thinking of taking the
plunge and starting their owncompany, any, anything major
(26:38):
you'd like to talk about?
Sandra Palone (26:40):
I would just like to say that don't have the
regret of not doing it.
I am so grateful that I finallytook the plunge and it's a self
employment.
And just to, just to get outthere and put my name out there,
sometimes it's a little scary atfirst, you put your own name on
(27:02):
the company and you do thatbecause you want people to know
that the buck stops with you.
Uh, when you first start out,sometimes there's a sense of
imposter syndrome, like, Oh, whoam I to be telling, you know,
these people, how I can helpthem.
And then you get over it becauseyou get hungry and you realize
(27:23):
that you have to take all thesesteps in order to prove this.
And, uh, I would say do itbecause not doing it is, uh,
you'd regret it.
I know that I would regret this.
If I didn't do it, what's theworst thing that could happen.
I could fail.
Okay.
But at least I had tried it and,uh, somebody liked me.
(27:44):
I would regret not trying it.
So I say do it.
And I also say that if there'san opportunity to work on a
bigger project than what you'reused to working on, uh, talk to
your mentors and basically workup the confidence and pursue it,
just do it.
I went from working on my veryfirst project was a$6,500
(28:08):
project.
And I had to beg that person togive me that work just so that I
could get it.
Uh, and my largest contract todate, uh, is one point$2
million.
Uh, so we've gone from 6,500 to1.2 million.
So I say, go for it,
Jon O'Brien (28:28):
Bravo.
Yeah, that's awesome.
And, uh, you know, I don't, youknow, I'm a supporter fan of
yours and, uh, if you ever needanything, you know, think of,
think of KCA.
We're always here to help, um,DGS reaches out, like I said,
from time to time for feedbackduring the bidding process.
And, and, uh, if you ever haveany input you want me to pass
(28:50):
on, you know, just, just let meknow.
And, uh, we're here to help.
Sandra Palone (28:54):
Thank you.
And John, I want to say thisabout the KCA.
You guys have been great to me,and I appreciate that very much.
And I want to say that thosesafety talks, uh, that you send,
um, I use those as an onsiterepresentative for UPFC, uh,
with the contract, a company Iworked with every morning as a
(29:17):
safety meeting.
I want you to know that thosewent to good use.
Jon O'Brien (29:21):
Awesome.
That's always great to hear.
I always wonder if peopleactually opened on my Monday
morning.
It's always good to hear that.
So thank you, Sean.
Oh, no.
It's like, yeah, thanks.
I'll make sure to pass the pastthat good word on to the staff.
I heard a collective.
Oh, thank goodness.
Sandra Palone (29:43):
They're worth it.
Jon O'Brien (29:45):
That's good.
Well, Sandra, thank you so muchfor joining us and sharing your,
uh, your insight.
Um, it was, uh, it was great tohear from you and, uh, most
importantly, uh, as a listener,uh, download more episodes, more
coming, uh, reach out to Sandra.
(30:07):
Uh, and in fact, Sandra, how canhappen?
Somebody to get ahold of you?
Sandra Palone (30:11):
So you can call me, uh, you can call Sandra
Palone and associates.
You can call me at(412) 965-0069, or you can email
me@slpatsandrapalone.net.
And if you would like to see, uh, what I do feel free to
(30:35):
look@mywebsiteatsandrapalone.net.
Jon O'Brien (30:37):
Perfect.
Perfect.
Well, thank you.
Thanks for joining us on thebuilding PA podcast.
And as I mentioned before,there's going to be a lot more
episodes coming.
So make sure you download andshare with your colleagues in
the office and thank you forjoining us today.
(30:57):
Shandra, my pleasure.
Thanks.
Thank you.
And all the best to you thisyear and beyond.
So keep it up.
Sandra Palone (31:04):
Thank you.
Take care.
Jon O'Brien (31:06):
Alright.
See ya.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.