Building a Legacy: Making It Work 3 Generations Deep with Grant Holdsworth - Holdsworth Construction

In this conversation, Grant Holdsworth, a third-generation builder and owner of Holdsworth Construction, shares his journey in the construction industry, emphasizing the importance of hands-on experience, the transition into the family business, and the challenges of scaling operations. He discusses the evolution of the company from primarily residential projects to a balanced approach that includes commercial work, highlighting the significance of custom millwork as a unique selling point. Grant also delves into the implementation of EOS (Entrepreneurial Operating System) to improve accountability and efficiency within the business, and he offers valuable advice for future generations in the industry.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
And we got what about this?

(00:01):
And what this guy here?
And he said our guy said, stop.
Stop.
Stop.
Listen.
You're all fired.
Every one of you is fired.
And now build out the positions in the way theyneed to work for the business to work.
And that was our first, for me, epiphanymoment.
Then we built out the seats, the way we saw thehigh level stuff.
And for me, I see we've got your marketing andsales, you've got operations, you've got human

(00:25):
resources and finance.
So we built out those responsibilities then.
Have you ever wondered how successfularchitecture, engineering, and construction
companies scale their business?
Or have you ever wanted guidance on how to getmore growth, wealth, and freedom from your AEC
company?
Well, then you're in luck.
Hi.

(00:45):
I'm Will Foratt.
And I'm Justin Nagel, and we're your podcasthosts.
We interview successful AEC business leaders tolearn how they use people, process, and
technology to scale their businesses.
So sit back and get ready to learn from theindustry's best.
This is Building scale.

(01:06):
Hey, listeners.
It's Will here.
Our mission is to help the AAC industry protectitself by making technology easy.
If you've ever listened to our show, then youknow that the three pillars of scaling a
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So if you suspect technology is your weak link,then book a call with us to see where we can
help maximize your company's IT cybersecuritystrategy.

(01:30):
Just go to buildingscale.net/help.
Today's guest is third generation owner ofHoldsworth Construction, Grant Holdsworth.
Grant is a seasoned builder who graduated fromNorthern Arizona University in 2009 with a
degree in construction management.
Started his career at Walsh Construction inPennsylvania, serving as a project engineer on

(01:52):
the large hydroelectric power plant.
And in 2012, he became a project manager atTruesdale Corporation in Tempe, following a
diverse infrastructure projects across theSouthwest.
And in 2015, Grant returned to the familybusiness where he spent the last ten years
driving growth and building scale here.
Holds worth construction as a generalcontractor known for delivering projects on

(02:14):
time, on budget, and with top quality results.
And with all that said, Grant, welcome to theshow.
Alright, man.
Excited to be here.
Well said.
Yes.
We are excited to have you.
The first time we met, Grant, I had some tacos.
You had a PB and J burger, which I recommended.
It seemed to go well.
You you seemed to enjoy it a ton.
I knew instantly that I wanted to to talk toyou more.

(02:36):
That was pretty straightforward.
Your story's cool.
Your mindset's right.
The whole vibe, as the kids say these days, wasjust on point.
So, I said a bunch of nice things.
So tell us tell us the real story.
Tell us how you got into construction, whatthat looked like, third generation deep, and
then tell us about the the company itself.
Yeah.
Well, luckily, I was I just haven't born intoit.

(02:58):
My grandpa was an industrial arts professorstarting in 'sixty nine before I was even born.
My mom and dad got started young and he wasgetting a degree in civil engineering, had
aspirations to be a bridge builder.
So him and I started Tonka toys, playing in thesandbox, was exposed to it at very young age,
and then of course, around it all the time.
Through just the genuine joy of the buildingprocess, the problem solving, and early

(03:23):
exposure, I just happened to kind of fall inand follow it from there from time I was
starting in middle school as I got old enoughto really kind of get on the job site.
I pushed brooms, cleaned up.
By the time I was in high school, I could run aframing crew or a trim crew and, you know, read
plans, lay out the floor, snap the lines, layout the walls, studs, do rough openings.

(03:45):
And then as I continue to grow up, I got intocollege, we were developing a big thing in
Ponderosa Trails and I was the wrap up guy.
So from the time we got to drywall to C of O, Iwould finish the process and I was going to
school.
So it was a reasonable part time effort.
Then we ended up at one point as we werebuilding that got to 60 houses in various
stages of construction.

(04:05):
So it got too big that I could manage whilestill going to class, became the punch list
guy.
So I wrapped up all the little things justbecause I was good with my hands and had been
doing a long time.
I could fix a variety of things, leaks andpunch list oriented stuff to get project
wrapped up.
Then finished my degree, went to Pennsylvania,worked on that hydroelectric power plant.
Again, that company Walsh also self performsimilar to what we do now.

(04:28):
I got to get my hands in lots of differentthings, tunneling and blasting, rock anchors,
giant jacks, a lot of really cool, huge scaleconstruction.
I mean, that hydroelectric power plant, the jobwas so big.
We built two temporary bridges just for accessthat we then tore down at the end.
Wow.
Just as one small aspect for me, the bridge wasprobably the cost of building a bridge was more

(04:51):
than any single job I've ever done.
It was just a temporary structure to take downat the end when we were finished.
So all of that was a great experience.
So just starting young and had a lot of passionfor it.
Always had the mentality of let's I wanted togo out and bring value back to our business.
My dad always told me, hey, you can always workif there's something for you to do.
If you want to basically have anything to dowith taking it over, I'm not going to give it

(05:14):
to you.
You're going to take it from me.
So I always had the mentality as I went out,learned a lot of Wall Street years and
Truesdale Opportunity presented something tocome back, and I tried to bring a lot of
different perspective, construction experience,and knowledge back to add to the pile of
knowledge that will result in growth.
That's ironic that dad wanted to be a bridgebuilder.
And you literally, like, I just had to buildtwo so I could build the other thing, and then

(05:38):
I wanna tear those down.
That's very ironic.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It was cool.
Sheep pile these huge giant steel columns thatwe were pounding down in the middle of the
river.
It was really cool stuff.
No.
That's awesome.
So you got all this experience, then you comeback home.
What does that look like?
What is coming home to the family business looklike as the grandson and then obviously son of

(05:59):
the current owner?
So in the And was and hold on.
Was that always the plan?
That's the other question.
It was, yes.
Again, just because my whole family's a bit ofan entrepreneur.
Uncle Mike owns his own law firm.
My uncle Matt is a CPA and owns his ownaccounting firm.
So just because I got involved in it so young,I've always had the idea of wanting to run and

(06:22):
operate my own business.
And because of how I was raised, specificallymy grandpa, add value, bring something back to
the table.
Don't just kind of start to ride the coattails.
You need to push and lift.
Lift with the rest of the operation.
So as I left, I mean, it it wasn't necessarilyknown as a guarantee, but it was my mentality
to want to learn, gather as much information asI could on how things operated, and and bring

(06:45):
back tangible useful knowledge to the businesswhen the opportunity presented itself.
So then in 2015, basically ten years ago,actually it would have been ten years ago on
September 1 when I officially came over.
So we're right at the ten year anniversary.
My dad came to me and said, Hey, we're gettingpretty busy again as they were kind of climbing

(07:05):
back out of the 2,008 setback.
I think it'd be a good time to come back intothe business.
We've got a job down here.
But here's the stipulations.
It's not a position.
You will not be collecting salary.
Will have to find more work and make itprofitable or you will have to go find another
job somewhere else.
So I thought about it and I felt it was theright time, had the right experience, the right
knowledge and started that job.

(07:27):
While I was doing that job and completing itwas a remodel in the Biltmore for a guy that we
had a lot of good standing history with.
And from there I networked and did work and didthe work, all the little aspects of kind of
wearing every hat the whole way till I couldfinally scale over the last ten years to now
press my influence into Flagstaff and start tomodify how that office operates and bring it

(07:50):
all back together into kind of one effort.
Nice.
So you came in it was, hey.
You gotta hunt and make it profitable.
Like, you gotta do the full scope of it.
So then was that the beginning of like, This isthe start of the transition.
You coming in will be start of this transitionprocess, or was that later down the line?
Well, I think, yeah, it was probably at thattime, it was that was the long term goal.

(08:14):
But anything in business, as you know, you younever can tell where it might leap from there.
But in time after about five years, I thinkthat it became obvious that it was not, it was
going to work.
It was sinking in.
We were getting more momentum.
We were bringing in more projects.
We were adding more people.
So then I think I was given kind of the runwaythen to get in and start to influence how we

(08:34):
operated in flag.
But I, yeah, no question.
I think my dad wanted to see and confirm thatthe I had what it took to really make it
operate and not preemptively get into asituation where you could ultimately run a long
standing business into the ground becauseyou're not prepared for the rigor of running
sorry, go ahead Will.
I was just going to quick segue here becauseyou talked a little bit about the residential.

(08:57):
You're doing just residential or is itresidential and commercial?
We do residential and commercial.
Now before then, I mean, we had done one offs.
We replaced an expansion joint for on a bridgedeck in Wilcox where we had to hammer out the
expansion joint and there's a piece of metal inthere that allows the bridge to move.
Hammer that and replace that.
We did some parks for the Indian community inPeach Springs.

(09:21):
We've done a helicopter, little airport landingpad touring facility on the North Rim.
But as a percentage, we were probably 5%commercial, 95% residential in the beginning
years of kind of really turning into operation.
Okay.
We'll get back to that.
Justin, we'll go ahead.
Yeah.
So I was thinking, obviously grandpa started ittransitioned to dad, then to you.

(09:44):
One, what did the transition from grandpa todad look like?
And then how is that different than yourtransition between you and your dad?
Yeah.
When my grandpa had it, it was called G.
H.
And Sons at the time.
It was more of a part time thing.
He is loves fish, loves to hunt, was aprofessor, was trying to basically just find a
way to fill his time through the summer andsupplement some income so he could go fishing

(10:05):
and hunting.
So I think again, same thing as the commonthread, just a genuine joy of building things.
He's really good at it, teaching people how tobuild cabinets.
He builds his own fly rods from scratch, tieshis own flies.
It's just kind of part of who he is.
Through circumstances similar to mine, it wasappeared to be a good opportunity for him to
come into business.
And that's really when it became a full timeeffort was that was in 'ninety seven.

(10:27):
Then started to really push hard, some houses,started to get some traction.
Shortly after that it might have been 'ninetynine or early two thousand, my grandpa was
like, Woah, woah, woah, a minute.
This is turning into a full time job again.
I don't want to work this hard.
So it's all yours.
I'm going go try to retire for real this time.

(10:48):
After he retired from NAU then worked for twoyears ago, okay, this is just getting more than
I anticipated.
And he's a little bit risk adverse.
Of course, running a business is kind of arisky undertaking.
So then from 'ninety seven until basically2015, my dad was kind of the main show that ran
the whole deals.
There was now I step in in 2015 where mygrandpa was like, listen, I'm out.

(11:13):
There's been a little bit more give and take,little bit more friction of the handoff.
I think it's just more about kind of handingthe baton properly.
Hey, have you got it?
Waiting for a good return back to know that thebaton is going to be carried forward correctly
again to grow and build scale and opportunityfor an operation that is outside of just now

(11:34):
maybe more than just the the family members.
Yeah.
Does that put the pressure on maybe?
Right?
Like, it's it's grandpa started this thing onthe side as he was teaching and then like, oh,
this is too big because your dad wants to makeit bigger.
And now you on top of that.
All right.
Well, I wanna make it even more.
I wanna scale this thing even more than we wealready have.
Does that, you know, put the pressure on, youknow, you as in like, Hey, we we have to do

(11:57):
more, as well as, you know, you you startknocking on the concept of legacy and, like,
what does that mean?
What does the company mean?
Now it's been around for, you know, thirty,forty years, you know, in this, like, half part
time all the way to then full blown operation.
What does that look like?
Yeah.
There's definitely some resistance to you know,he's kinda like, hey.

(12:18):
Listen.
This has been great.
I get to build stuff.
I do what I want.
It's manageable.
It's within my kind of orbit of understanding.
I'm tied into all the things that are going onto really leaning into allowing your team
members and trusted kind of higher levelleadership team to truly be delegated to and
trust that the activity is going to gethandled.

(12:40):
There was definitely a lot of handoff and thatsort of opening understanding.
Think for a long time there was a lot ofconversation about, I think more of let's get
the work and run it really well, make it veryprofitable, we'll do it and then get the next
job and move to that one where I was more,well, let's get the job, let's build systems

(13:01):
and operations around that job that allows ourteam members to run the work forward in the way
we like to have the work done and the qualitywe expect on time, on budget, top quality.
That was a transition period for sure.
But I think that there's been a lot more buyinto it now that he can see, hey, now I really
can now come full circle and just go do thestuff I like, go back in the wood shop, build

(13:22):
the stuff we build in house, let the operationsand day to day of the business fall to the
other people.
And now I just kind of get to do what I wantwhen I want, leave, go out of town.
So there was some handoff, there was somefriction and resistance to not want to push
beyond that comfort zone of having your handsand kind of everything all the time, which I
get.
Mean, that's a comfortable place to be to knowthat you're driving everything forward in a way

(13:44):
that you know you're essentially accountablefor anything that goes wrong.
So it's hard to put that into other people'shands.
You said something, which I I almost forgot.
You have something that's really interestingabout you guys.
You said mill shop, which means you kinda havesome manufacturing going on.
Why don't talk about that little bit of thehistory of that?
Because not everyone has something like that.

(14:06):
Why did that why do you have it?
Why did it start?
Why don't you talk a It little bit about
starts with again, it kind of goes back to theindustrial arts aspect of where we came from
and building cabinets.
At one point when I was younger, we built acabinet package on-site for the house from
scratch.
We'd set up quasi wood shop and build it fromthere.
It's just, I think it's just the enjoyment thatdrives that side of it.

(14:27):
And I think that I'm noticing a bit more of atrend that there was a big shift to automation,
go faster, CNC machines, spit it out, makes itvery cost effective.
But now we found ourselves in the valley in alot of cases where if it's unique or something
not in the ordinary, it's really hard to get itbuilt.
And there's a big vacuum for that sort ofservice.
We've done common area millwork packages thathave that need where it's a uniquely built

(14:52):
thing from wood that requires a bit more handson than a box or a cabinet face frames that can
be more production.
So we started with building, I think one of thehouses we built in Forest Highlands.
We built a front door for a guy from scratch.
And from there, it just has always been kind ofsomething people see it.
It's your main focal point as you approach ahouse.
And we have built many front doors from there.

(15:14):
And then just that turned into othercommunication and discussions.
We just did the Heard Museums remodel downthere.
And we were the only guy that could even getbidding on it because they kind of know through
the grapevine that we're woodworkers.
That's what we do.
And they call us and say, hey, listen, we can'teven get anyone to give us a number.
There's no one even bid on it.
That's like the third or fourth job.
We've been the only guy to even get a numberput together, which we would have to

(15:37):
fundamentally change the way it was designed.
The details wouldn't work.
The species of wood called out wouldn't work.
So that's kind of started to take on its owngravitational pull and we like to do it.
So now we're kind of leaning into it andexpanding the shop.
So we have more capacity to build higher.
And again, same back to educating people, howcan we get our internal team members educated

(15:59):
on how building a door style and our micro lamplaminated piece of equipment so that we can
ramp up our ability to produce it.
That's not basically, there's only a handful ofus in the company right now that can do it.
We gotta work on our internal education processto get people more tied into how it works and
how to
do Okay.
That almost turns into a, a full on, marketingarm as well.

(16:21):
Right?
Cause you're like, Hey, somebody sees thatdoor, sees that millwork, that piece.
They're like, holy crap.
Where'd you get that?
Like, I want, that's what I want on my house orthat's what I want in my space.
Yeah.
And then it kind of becomes that whole otherthing that helps the other side of the
business, the sales and marketing side.
It does.
And then we've had it many times.
People ask, oh, where on earth did you get thatfront door?

(16:42):
I've never seen anything like it.
Well, we made it in house.
Man, you got to do more of that.
But the challenge of that is, as we talk aboutscale and systems and operations, custom
building stuff from wood is inherently a littlebit resistant to scale and systematic
operations.
Then you start to lean into again back into CNCand production made stuff.
I think I do want to scale it.

(17:03):
I want to keep that handmade on.
It's going to come down to educating people sothat when we do deliver that end result, which
is, well, I don't want to oversell ourselves,it starts to have its own pull.
Now we get to the point where I can't buildenough of it or say my dad can't do enough of
it.
Then start to put out a woodworking productthat doesn't meet our standard before and then
you kind of squash it.
So we're working our way through.

(17:24):
In fact, downstairs right now, we've got someguys working in the shop.
They're working with some Coruscant White Oakon some custom cello stuff we're building for
an apartment complex called Solace Ballpark, Ithink.
But again, was something they couldn't getmade.
It's not a premade product, which a lot ofacoustical systems are that way.
So we're working towards fundamentallyeducating people so we can systematically build

(17:46):
custom built stuff.
I mean, there's a lot of work behind anythingthat's custom, right?
So if you have no automation and sometimesit's, I'm sure even the design concepts go
through iterations of back and forth.
Because once you, once you make that cut, thenthen you're either cursing or you're really
happy.
Yes.
Yeah.

(18:06):
I mean, that's the that's the trick of it.
Most really good carpenters are finding thebest way to cover up the stuff they messed up
or miscut.
I mean, that's what what at some point, becausethere's so many things you are going to have to
find a way to creatively solve little issues,miscut a piece or a splinter, or you hit a
weird grain wrong and it pulled the wood out.
There's lots of little things you've got to beable to solve.

(18:28):
It's either right or wrong.
Sometimes it's just throw the piece away itthrough and start another piece.
It's just there's no saving it.
How does it go?
How does the saying go?
Measure once, curse twice?
That's
I was I was thinking you measure, measuretwice, cut once, right?
But like, make sure the design is actuallyfinalized before you start measuring.

(18:50):
Your cut sheet, which is one aspect ofcarpentry is you usually gotta have it sketched
out, and we sketch it by hand usually withdimensions, and then you gotta make a cut
sheet.
So you start to think through styles and rails.
And as you do as the joinery goes together,you've gotta think about, okay.
Well, there's gonna be a style and rail with acope and stick.
You don't just cut, okay, want a door threefeet wide.

(19:11):
You don't cut the style three feet.
You've got to cut it less the door, the stylewidth plus the now your tongue and groove piece
that goes into it.
So if you don't start with a cut list and havean idea up upfront, start begin with the end in
mind, there's just no way you're gonna have itdone right.
And even still with a cut list, if you don'tadd the add this and subtract three eighths and
one more eighths back and then minus fiveinches, it can get sideways really quick.

(19:33):
Well, I'm gonna invite you to my house.
I built this built in fireplace, entertainmentthing that that floats on the wall, which is
amazing.
But, you know, took me probably 10 times theamount of time it'd take you.
And, you know, probably, you know, a hundredthof the quality.
But that's not the The point is is yes.
If you don't have some some idea of, like, whatthis looks like at the end and then, oh, I need

(19:56):
a half inch here or there because of
the Yes.
The
all that stuff.
Yeah.
I went through that, and it was, quite the funendeavor.
But to to your point, custom stuff takes time.
Like, it did there's there's no way to justlike, oh, I just bought this from wherever,
IKEA, wherever.
Neat.
Kit.
Exactly.
Or the production.
So, you know, we it's it's easy enough to putthe cut list together and lay it out for people

(20:18):
to then perform and use.
You know, you got thickness planers and joinersand table saw and the equipment and the tools
you need if you can provide to them anefficient way to create the cut list and make
the pieces and educate them there.
It can go well.
It can go together really well if you make anice cut list and you've got you use the
equipment right.
You can make you can have efficiency and stillbuild custom things with proper plan for sure.

(20:40):
So you mentioned both the residential and thecommercial side.
Usually, somebody doesn't wanna do both.
Like, that is most of the time.
There's very different, feelings.
Let's go put it that way.
They go into each of those areas.
But you've for more in the opinion of abuilding's a building.
You gotta you got four walls, ceiling, andfloor.

(21:00):
Gotta build the same way.
How how are you able to do both of those and dothem at a high level?
You know, I again, the sequencing ofconstruction is really at the heart of making
it run well.
Have it sequenced well, preplanning, knowingyou need a materials like well in advance.
I think it is the commercial approach.
And I might be a little bit more weighted toenjoying commercial just because of dealing

(21:21):
with other professionals in the industry.
It is a little bit more leaning to buildingscale and scalability and systems around
commercial.
But at some point realized that the sequenceand order things have to happen is the same.
You've got to come out of the dirt, you putyour floor down, you build your walls, you put
in the MEPs, you need to know your paint color,then the drywall goes on, the flooring goes in,

(21:44):
the tile goes down, the doors.
So then I thought, how could I take the aspectof residential that is the more challenging
aspect of it, of dealing with unprofessionalpeople in the industry and kind of educating
them in the process while applying some of thestuff and efficiencies I like in commercial.
So that's really where I like, that's where Ibring it together is that just the process of
problem solving, building things is my favoritething to do.

(22:07):
So residential and commercial offer the sameoutcome.
And we've now used some of our commercialoriented mindsets to better organize the
approach in residential.
And it's made our process more enjoyable, notonly for us, but for the homeowner.
They're guided through the process in a cleanerway, the way that an architect might lay out a
spec book.
We've kind of organized the categories, alignedwith the CSI code, is born from commercial

(22:31):
construction, to organize it in a way thathomeowners can make more timely decisions.
At the end of the day, as I thought more aboutit, that's the more frustrating part of
residential is the timeless and decisionmaking.
We want to build a custom and result forpeople.
So it's basically unlimited in their need towant to change this.
What about what about this?
What about that?
To narrowing down their decision window,prioritized by the time it needs to be done in

(22:54):
to create a smoother process for everyone.
It's been outstanding because residential, youget to build really beautiful, long lasting
things.
It's meant to be people enjoy to be there.
Most of the houses we get to build, it's kindof a representation of their hard work and
sacrifice over the years to create whateversuccess they did and they want their friends to

(23:14):
see it.
That part is really exciting and fun for me.
Or even a business, a lot of times you do a TI,you're bringing it, you're manifesting what
they want to present to people, who they are inthe building process.
One, highly emotional residential.
One is very time sensitive.
Get it done.
Let's get this baby opened up.
Make it look nice.
Do it well.
And then I'm in business.
Well, on the residential side, your typicalclient is going to be the housewife or the one

(23:38):
that's making all the, you know, inside of theinside decisions, right?
I'm not even talking about just internaldesign, anything that's inside of the house,
they're having to make decision.
So what I heard, just to translate, is you'reactually doing sort of a human scheduling.
Alright?
So you're not doing everything all upfront,like with the architect up upfront.

(23:59):
Then because what what that really does, thisthis process that you have, is you're
scheduling timeframes.
They're sort of like moving timeframes.
And I want to call it just in time, but you'reessentially, what you're trying to do is change
how many decisions have to be made all at once,which I'm guessing also then reduces

(24:22):
frustration.
Right?
Can you talk a little bit more about that?
Just to give an idea of like what something isworking on, what decisions have to be made and
like what's coming.
Can you give like an example of like what thislooks like?
Yeah.
So for a while it seemed like we would getgoing and going and then something would rear
its head and we've realized, oh man, whofinished the cabinets and who did and then we

(24:46):
would get ahold of home and like, hey, man,there's these two things.
We have to get this figured out right away orit's going to start to slow the job down.
They started to feel super hectic.
And then they would give us feedback like, Hey,guys, we wanted some more time to make these
decisions.
And we were focused on some of these otherbells and whistles.
And in their mind, Yeah, these are great.
We're picking our stuff out, but it wasn'turgent.
So as we thought about, well, we know we needto start making these decisions and they need

(25:08):
to be made.
Why not get some structure around it so that wecan give them the time they'd like to
anticipate?
So if you'd say, hey, listen, don't look atyour tile selections right now.
We've got twelve more weeks for that.
And most of that doesn't have a long lead time.
Let's get started on some of your immediatestuff.
So before that was kind of a verbal effort, wewould communicate that off a Gantt chart.
Once we started to pump that into Procore andreally break it down by code and then build a

(25:31):
clean Gantt chart schedule, that's when we saw,okay, now we can prioritize the selections by
category every time.
And there's a pattern to the cadence that thework happens every time.
So let's get them in front of these threethings first.
Let's get in front of cabinets, let's get infront of windows, let's get in front of steel
or some other structural components that needto get right.

(25:52):
Then let's move them into flooring, move theminto shingles, move them into the stuff.
And that's when we really started to then havea way for them to go out and say, here's what
we need you to start looking at.
Here's to prioritize.
Here's how much time you have.
This is your typical lead time.
It just really gave a calmness to say, hey,listen, don't even worry about these other
fifteen, twenty outstanding decisions.

(26:13):
Just worry about these three right now.
Just worry about those.
We got plenty of time and their ability toallow them to pin that comfortably and know
that they're focusing on what's urgent and notget pulled into what's the funnest stuff to
pick out.
It just really it gave them the time theywanted to be with it.
Think about it, get it in front of us.
We're not putting the pressure on last minuteto try to make decisions and something they're

(26:34):
really uncomfortable with.
And there's a permanence in making theseselections.
You can't go through and do a $250,000 cabinetpackage and then hastily get a color.
Just go and, Oh, just try it again.
It's set.
That's the end of it.
So having their timeframe giving a window onhow long they could have to make the decision
and not make them feel scrambled.

(26:55):
At the end of the day, they almost make thisdecision in the same amount of time or even
less time than when they were rushed.
And they're really happy with it.
And it usually results in less changes down theroad.
And we can get the material there even earlierin its process.
So we're not down to waiting or this got pushedback this week or two weeks and three weeks

(27:15):
late to keep the job moving forward.
So you're removing decision fatigue.
I mean, result is you're removing decisionfatigue because there's like literally a
thousand decisions that you can make in a homeand some of the homes that you're making are
just big and beautiful, so may be more thanthat.
So if you're making these all in advance,you're taking into consideration also the lead

(27:40):
time as well as the top like, the physical leadtime of whatever the material is plus the lead
time of what it takes to build it or toconstruct it or whatever it is that you're
doing or place it.
Right?
You're taking all those things intoconsideration.
So what happens what happens if someone doesn'tmake a decision or doesn't make a decision on
time?
So I think it's we communicate to them thatabove all else, it's important that we get you

(28:04):
what you want.
And we want you to make the right decision toget you something you're happy with.
If in this time frame we can't make thedecision, that's totally fine.
We'll continue to work our way through it.
Just know that it's going to have this amountof impact to the finish date.
I think that also gives them where rather thandon't tell them or no one's really clear on it,
now they're making decisions, this happened andthen all of a sudden you're a month and a half
behind because you're waiting on decisions.

(28:25):
They didn't necessarily understand that thatmight be a result of selections being made.
I think when they know, listen, you know what,I get it.
If we miss, we lose a week on an eighteen monthproject or a two year project or whatever it
might be, they still feel like they're in thedriver's seat.
This is important to us.
We understand that it might cause some delays.
I want to make sure this is right.
Totally fine.
Take the time you need.

(28:46):
We'll give you feedback.
Just know that it could have some durationimpact.
And I think when that communication happens andthen it does inevitably move back a little bit
at the end, there's a reason that they know,hey, I understand now that took a little bit a
month past our plan finish date, but we madethese four decisions that were critical to us.

(29:06):
They're very important and we got exactly whatwe wanted.
It doesn't make we're obviously, it's advantagefor us for the time to for the job to move
forward quickly.
We have general conditions and stuff that justbecomes more costly as the job progresses
forward in time.
But it rarely turns into months and months.
But it really does help them feel like it wasmy decision.

(29:27):
And if the job finishes a month late, I stillgot what I want.
And it makes everyone just understands that'sthe outcome.
So that's on the sort of the customer side, buton the business side, right?
If a decision hasn't been made, then you have acrew that's not working.
Right?
So how do you deal with that?
Yeah.
Well, for the most part, luckily, we've usuallygot about five to six projects running at the

(29:51):
same time.
And because we self perform, the stuff we selfperform usually is the very heavy lifting at
the beginning.
And then we kind of move out of there and thenit's the rough trades and electrical and those.
And then we're not back in until all the MEPsare done, the drywall's up, the paintings in,
the flooring's going down, then we have ourtrim crew come back in.
So we do have a bit of a way to pull guys, putthem over here just because of multiple jobs.

(30:16):
If we were down to one job, it would be morechallenging to offer that sort of delay But
because we like to filter in little remodelsand we usually communicate with the, hey,
listen, we're happy to do this for you.
Just know that it's going to be fill in work.
There might be times where we don't have peoplethere.
So we work to have kind of the Tetris game offitting little things in.

(30:39):
So if a job may come to a standstill because ofdecisions waiting to be made, we can move them
to here.
We'll just put a bigger crew on something elsefor lives.
It is important to keep good people busybecause if you don't have them busy, they're
going to go somewhere else to work.
But we have a multitude of projects running allthe time.
So we can kind of plug and play and put themwhere we need to to keep them busy.

(30:59):
And
doesn't, like, your bill time also increasejust because of, like, the way you're doing
things?
You know, especially with, like all thedecisions.
Like if you have all the decisions madeupfront, wouldn't that make more sense?
Why do it your way?
Well, there's something I think what we'venoticed is some homeowners want to have a more

(31:22):
tangible experience.
When you look at a plan you've been doing along time, you can start to look at elevations
and all the things that make up a full plan setto kind of understand what the space is going
to feel like.
But there has been a lot of times as we'vegotten underway, and this isn't as big as I
thought it would be.
Can we move this?
This wasn't, I want to change this window.
So I think they just inherently want it to besomewhat open still and not set in stone as

(31:46):
they go through the building process.
Okay.
But we have to hold them a little bitreasonable there because they're it's hard to
try to come back and change things around,let's say, drywall.
So an example, we we do try to hold a littlebit of pressure.
Framing is done.
We're going to do a pre electrical.
This is kind of your one time to really makethis efficient and effective.

(32:08):
So let's take our time.
And sometimes our electrical walk will be afull four, five, six, seven hours.
We have a way to pull up the planelectronically within ProCole.
We mark it all up, light switch here, turn itover here, cans here, sconces on here.
And so there are stages where we try to say,hey, this is our last step to really make
changes that are easy.
From here, it's going to be very expensive andvery hard.

(32:31):
They still want to have the ability to walk thehouse.
And imagine, I'm coming in the front door, Iput my keys right here, I want my switches, I
want them to turn on this.
But if what if they come in from this way?
So we try to get as much decision making withthe camera as early as possible, but there's
just some things they just wanna leave in theopen until they get to feel the house, feel how
it works.
Okay.
Okay.
Yeah.

(32:52):
That I think you when we were talking aboutthis before, you had mentioned it's, the the
the decision fatigue that Will mentioned.
You had said like, it's kind of like Netflixwhen you just turn it on.
There's a ton of different options.
And if you have no idea, it's like, you're justgonna sit there scrolling through the options.
Like you're not gonna actually make a decision.
And then an hour later, you're just gonna turnit off and go upstairs and go to bed.

(33:14):
So saying, hey, let's just do the action onMonday, the comedy on Tuesday, the the the you
know, going forward, it's like that then solvessome of these problems that keeps you moving
and then remove some of that decision fatigueeven though certain things still have to happen
at certain times in the process because they dowanna have that, oh, this is how the house is

(33:34):
gonna flow and feel, and and I'm actuallystanding in it.
So Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
For sure.
Yeah.
I mean, it's lay it out.
Listen.
Monday's gonna be action.
Tuesday's comedy.
Thursday is romance.
And maybe on Friday, you had two genres.
You know what?
Let's do the genre on Thursday instead ofFriday.
Have little bit of flexibility, but open upNetflix, go to your action category.
You just got one you got one bar to scrollacross.

(33:55):
You're gonna pick a movie and feel lesspressure and be happier with your choice if you
just knew you're going for action.
Yeah.
You know?
You don't flip around.
May well, maybe comedy maybe end up creatingfaster decision making with less pressure.
Yes.
Which me and well love structure so much sothat it actually brings us into our next topic
here of EOS.

(34:15):
You're also an EOS company.
We're an EOS company.
We've been doing it for six plus years orsomething like that, but you're new to this.
So let's talk about that.
Let's talk about your current experience with,going into an EOS structure.
Yeah.
I was actually having lunch with a guy who runsa roofing company.
I was kind of explaining to him some of myfeeling of stagnation and our ability to grow

(34:37):
and inefficiencies.
Was like, Man, our key players are workingharder and they're working, I'm working harder.
And I just feel like I'm losing my ability topush through to this next stage.
And he said, Dude, you to go look into this EOSthing.
That was my first introduction.
I'd pruse it over really quickly.
I was kind of in a quick hurry.
Was like, Oh, wow, man.
That's way more involved than I thought.
So as I started to read and then I got tractionright there and listening to traction, then

(34:59):
that's when I really started to see how itneeded to be implemented.
And then through some more communication, I waskind of kicking around trying to find a way to
find those efficiencies I was hunting for, topush beyond a bit of our slow and growth, I got
introduced to our implementer who we're usingnow.
And man, was as I started to learn more, I readtraction, I could see how I read another book

(35:24):
called The E Myth.
And there was one phrase in there that I alwayscome build a place where ordinary people can do
extraordinary things.
And it's not ordinary in that they're not coolpeople.
It's that maybe help someone who's earlier intheir experience produce really high end
results.
That in the core is EOS.
And as we then, so we got on our first meeting,it went totally different than I thought.

(35:48):
We were going back and forth trying to set upour chart of accountability, which we never
really had a good version of that.
And we got, what about this?
And what this guy here?
He said Our guy said, Stop, stop, stop.
Listen, you're all fired.
Every one of you is fired.
And now build out the positions in the way theyneed to work for the business to work.
And that was our first for me, epiphany moment.

(36:10):
Then we built out the seats, the way we sawhigh level stuff.
And for me, I see you've got your marketing andsales, you've got operations, you've got human
resources and finance.
So we built out those responsibilities.
Then we reassigned ourselves back in thebusiness.
And from there, that move alone to clarity andwho's doing what and why.
Now moving down the kind of org chart chart ofaccountability into our operations portion of

(36:35):
our business is the biggest piece right now.
The efficiency we've seen in work output fromthe same people has been, I it's got to be a
30% to 40% improvement.
100% opposite that I would have done on my own.
It just was wildly different to have thatperspective.
From there, now we're building off of thatmindset.
But the org chart, Chart of Accountability, wasour first kind of real revolutionary change,

(37:00):
hit various roadblocks of our revenue growth,and it's starting to stagnate.
But I can quickly see now that in that wholeorg chart reorganization, I got fired from
operations, of course, my favorite part.
Now I'm in marketing and sales, but I can seealready feel an immense amount of momentum,
exposure.
Business development takes a lot of justrepeated exposure, getting in front of the

(37:23):
right people, doing the right things, andhaving the confidence that the operations team
is solving the problems.
They're doing their work.
I'm you know, I get to be here with guys likeyou to help higher level thought, bigger
visions on growth and operations and systems,people more engaged and clear on what they're
supposed to be doing, how to hand off the ballto various stages within its progress through

(37:44):
the business.
It's been outstanding.
Did, when you went through the accountabilitychart, did it also help change sort of the
multi hat wearing that was happening before?
100%.
I think that's there's a unique aspect of amindset.
Back in '97 when my dad took it over andthere's just not enough there to have enough

(38:06):
people.
That's that's mandatory.
You're kinda like, what is what can I do rightnow is the fastest possible way to get it done
this minute?
And that becomes your ingrained culture as youthen slowly progress to the next stage.
And it's hard to give up old habits die hard.
So we I think we were still have a little bitof underlying old school thought of what's the
fastest way to get it done right now?
In the exact moment, that might be fast, but inthe long run, are you developing repeatable

(38:30):
systems?
Is it clear what people people are supposed tobe working on?
Somewhere in there as you probably step out ofthat 3 to $5,000,000 revenue range where you
probably can do most of it and be prettyeffective and you're you're in it and it stays
to going from that to maybe 10 to 12,000,000,you're just gonna run yourself ragged and
you're going find more things falling throughthe cracks.

(38:52):
So you can't have a brand new businessimmediately roll out EOS.
Maybe you can have the infrastructure and you'dhave your names and all those seats, it might
be a great way to start.
But you do have to have some of the mentalityas a brand new business.
What's the fastest way I get this done rightnow?
Because I'm clinging on.
I'm just trying to hold on, trying to get mywork done to, I think, even our structure now
as we become larger in our scale and morepeople operating within the management realm is

(39:18):
going to work probably up to say 20,000,000.
And then you're probably going to find yourselfsomewhat reinventing that wheel a little bit
again as you continue to scale.
So I think you've got to then be more open tochange moving forward because you're going to
probably be in a more constant state of changeas you continue to scale than the first ten
years of a business.
I mean, you're just hanging on.

(39:39):
You're just trying to survive.
Is your
dad accepting the changes or how because, youknow, you're you're you're I mean, look.
You're his kid.
Right?
Like, and he's you're telling him, like, hey.
We need to do this.
Right?
Like, how does that feel, and how how's hetaking that?
You know, there's been several stages.
There's been three major changes I've made tothe business.

(40:00):
One was getting on a SharePoint and creating away for us to have more efficient ways to share
files, have a more dynamic file sharing betweenour office, town here, the office and flag.
He was kicking and screaming the whole way.
This is awful.
Nothing make any sense.
I can't find anything.
What are you doing?
I just let's just go back to get to the otherside of us.
It started he's like, this is amazing.
I love it.
Why didn't we do this a long time ago?

(40:23):
Then the next one was we were starting to talkabout redoing our logo.
This is not our original logo.
Our other one was kind of a house and a littlebit more of a residential feel.
I wanted to have a board, but just a generalcontracting feel.
And I was talking about, hey.
We need to get with the marketing company.
We need to kind of rebuild our website.
Let's freshen it up.
I don't know why we need to go and talk to youabout how we should be running our business.
This is silly.

(40:43):
Our logo is fine.
We went through the process and he's like, thatwas really good.
We should have done this forever ago.
Yeah.
I'm seeing
kind of another similar thing as I was startingto pitch it to him to get everyone on board
because I knew that he and Phil and our otheroffice manager, Nikki, kind of it.
But I think he's now sort of looked back on ourbig changes to getting I I think he's getting

(41:04):
more open to So same thing.
We started our first EOS meeting, and he hecalled me on the phone afterwards, him and I,
he just said, I gotta say, I'm impressed.
Like, this was a good call.
I have finally seen what and how we're going tobecome a business, not just self employed.
Employed, not just guys who like to buildthings, but guys who are building a business.
So I think through the course of the stuff thatI've been trying to implement, first met with

(41:28):
extreme resistance to, wait a minute.
Hold on.
These are starting to work out.
Now he's just like, hey.
What do you think we should do?
Let's do it.
So there's been some momentum.
Okay.
I got the big, old, stubborn, bolder man.
He's kinda rolling now.
I got it in motion.
So he's more he's more in line with the change.
I
You know, I wanna go back to when you weredoing the accountability chart.

(41:49):
How surreal was it when your implementer toldyou to that everyone's fired?
Right?
Like, have you ever thought of that, like, youknow, and in the moment, like, who could fire
me?
Right?
I'm Right.
Owner.
Right?
But now now looking back on that experience andeven, like, getting fired, how do you feel
about that?
It was you know, as we got to I mean, he couldsee us, obviously.

(42:12):
That was the last thing I would have imaginedcoming out of his you know?
And it but it gave enough pause to think, waita minute.
He's totally right.
Why are we trying to build this chart aroundall the people that are currently doing that?
We're just recreating what we've already got.
To have a bit of a pause in your brain of like,wait a minute.
I am fired because if I can't grow the businessI'm looking to build, I should be fired

(42:35):
essentially.
I'm not doing something the way it needs to bedone.
I need to change my perspective.
So to then have an to give the space to stepback and just look at the business the way it
needs to operate in your mind and notcurtailing to the people and our current kind
of spider web of people was very clarifying.
It is hugely clarifying too.

(42:56):
And I like to read a lot of books.
I like to try to improve myself.
It's part of stepping into the unknown anddoing things you've never done before.
And you read, oh, you got to an org chart, yougot to have this, you got to have that.
But they never really touch on why org chartsare important.
It's not about having a name andresponsibilities.
It's about how does your business work?
Take the names out of it altogether and buildyour whole business out from, again, I got it

(43:19):
in three segments, marketing and sales.
What does that look like?
What are the responsibilities?
What are they doing?
Any person and operations, we've gotsuperintendent, project manager, APM, foreman,
laborers.
What does that look like?
What does our skilled laborers do?
What do our skilled trades people do to sales?
I mean, I'm sorry, finance and HR to just listout what needs to be done in the categories

(43:43):
that you see it and then put the people to it.
It is the only way you can probably build aproper org chart is to not have anyone in mind.
I don't know how else you would do it becauseWe struggled with the same thing.
I've never fully understood the concept untilhe, hey, you're fired.
All of you.
Stop.
Like, everyone's out.
The business is empty.
What does the business need to do?
And then who can get that done?

(44:04):
So I guess it put you and your dad in adifferent working relationship now.
You want talk about that for a bit?
It's, I mean, him and I have always had areally strong relationship.
And we're comfortable pushing back a little bitand having direct conversations knowing that
it's not personal, it's not about feelings.
It's always cordial.
We're not the type to start screaming andyelling.

(44:25):
That's not really our MO.
But I think we can have clear and openconversation.
Think at the end when we were nominating Get ItWon at capacity to do it process and I got
nominated for the visionary, I think in themoment, just I kind of thought I was the
visionary guy.
As we lay out what a visionary is, he's like,I'm not the visionary.
I don't have all these gazillions ideas.
What about this and millwork?
And let's go here and let's do this and let'ssheet here, wild man.

(45:03):
Get your cut sheet.
What are we building?
What pieces do we need?
How long do they need to be?
So that dynamic has really shifted, I thinkcreated a lot of momentum.
And I like the big picture stuff.
I like create relationships.
I like to connect with people to kind of thetraction boots on the ground.
Okay, what does it look like?
Here's the cabinet we've defined.
How do we physically build it?

(45:23):
And he's better at that part than I am forsure.
To sit down and be a little bit more methodicalin his thought, think through the little
pieces, how do you physically get it done, andthen you combine those together.
It's a good operation.
I think we're both feeling really comfortablewith where it ended up.
Were there any other moments as you're goingthrough kind of the EOS process?

(45:45):
Were there any other like big ahas that werekind of stopping you from growing?
And then once you kind of let started goingthrough the process, you went, oh, this is
stopping us.
Yes.
The just the physical way of how the identify,discuss, and solve process works To invite
people.
It's not the blaming and shaming and to giveyou a place to comfortably talk about, Hey, we

(46:07):
might have 40 outstanding issues.
Some small, some big, some might just be a bigdecision to make.
Do we go out to this one?
Do we not?
To then go down that list as a team, the of thehead of the spear, the main leadership, the top
level leadership to look at what are issues andhave them out there.
Pick what we think is most important.
And then just, I mean, that's one hour of a oneand a half hour meeting to talk about how to

(46:30):
solve problems.
And I've noticed before it was I would talkwith the estimator.
We need to work on this.
We need to work on this.
We need to work on this.
I talked to project management.
Hey, is something you piecemeal it and it'stelephone pole.
And it gets lost in translation to comingtogether as a team to talk about the same
problem altogether to then uniformly come to adecision and execute that.

(46:52):
Have dramatically improved.
The other thing it highlights is what at facevalue looks like it's running really well.
Bring it up to an IDS and then you really startto break it down.
Everyone's like, oh, wait a minute.
Yeah, you're right.
This is just not working as well as I thought,like our time cards.
And I could go on about all the little thingswe've pulled out that as we started to discuss
as a team could see without playing telephonepole what about it just was causing a lot of

(47:17):
sludge to dig through to get to the end andunleashed a lot of efficiency in human energy
just to feel engaged that you're part of theoverall solution.
And now we've got our leadership team level 10and we're already now we started our second
level 10 with operations.

(47:38):
And there was a lot of efficiency with thatprocess.
Mike Madden, the guy, one of my main guys, aswe were really committing to making US happen,
there was a lot of major structural thingshappening in the world of and he's not, I'm
getting they're gonna fire me.
I'm getting fired.
Look at all what's all happening here?
But as I said, no, no, no, Mike.

(47:59):
First of all, you're definitely not fired.
You're gonna be here forever.
And unless you physically leave, I'm gonnareally, really kind of hold on.
I'm not even just hold on your legs.
You're here long term.
And he had his reluctance as he saw thestructural changes happening to now like, this
has fundamentally changed my day.
I do not I don't feel like I'm spinning mywheels going from here and here and here and

(48:22):
here and going and work harder and harder allday to a strategic flow of information,
leadership team, people I can start to lean on.
And my bandwidth was limited in solving some ofour operation problems to now Phil, who's our
one of our main guys been with us forever, isnow head of operations.
He's tied in the field all the time.
His solutions and his bandwidth to solve thoseproblems is far higher than mine.

(48:45):
So that has been the IDS, to circle back to avery long winded answer, uncovered a lot of
little things to now also uncovering longerterm goals that we need to start to focus on
over the quarter that aren't just a quickdiscussion.
There are a lot of things you can fix with aquick discussion to start to improve.
There are some things that are just asystematic improvement that need to be made in

(49:07):
the business.
Yes.
We we've gone through again many years at thispoint.
We've hit many ceilings and, have brokenthrough many ceilings, but it is wild.
And it always comes back to structure and likewhat you're doing and something that maybe you
built two years ago are like, oh, that, thatdoesn't work anymore.
Now we gotta rebuild this thing to make adifferent, to, to break through this new level

(49:30):
we're at, which is amazing.
Like that's a yeah.
Like it's, it is frustrating at times,certainly not to, not to suggest it isn't.
However, it is the growth, right?
You can feel the growth happening.
And as you keep going, your issues lists changefrom like, we just got a lot of mess to fix to
like, oh, we've got all this potential to do,and then it'll flip back and forth.

(49:51):
And it's just a very it's it's such a funprocess if you like building business.
Like, that's, effectively if you like buildingbusiness, like EOS is such a amazing structure
and tool for anybody.
It is.
You know, it's the the guy that introduced mein the first place that even mentioned it for
me to start to look into it was talking aboutthe level 10 at the time, which meant nothing
to me then.
Yep.
And he's like, we've gotten to the point nowwhere we look the level 10 meeting of the week

(50:14):
is one of our favorite activities.
Everyone's coming in, they're engaged, it'stime to talk about what we're struggling with,
how we can improve it.
Everyone's, and I can already see it happening.
We have, I look forward to the level 10 meetingevery week, which it's just, it's funny to hear
the common thread amongst anyone trying tooperate and grow a business face the same
challenges.

(50:35):
While physically what you might produce as yourend service are good may be different, but it
comes down to having a team of people workingtogether to produce results.
And EOS is a great way to put structure andintention behind it in an organized way.
It's just, it's really interesting to see.
Say I'm living deja vu, I look forward to level10 every week.
It's a great meeting.

(50:55):
For us, when we started, I think right in thebeginning, near the beginning, we had like 108
issues that we had that we've like identifiedas like our initial issues.
I think there was a dozen bottlenecks that werejust And reliant on it took like two years to
like pull those apart before they were, I was,it was not reliant on me.

(51:17):
The, and it's just wondrous.
And even going from like tactical, right?
Initially it was like tactical, like just feltlike hammering at problems, but at least we
were focused on hammering those problems.
So now it's like longer term, strategicinitiatives that take longer to just solve.
Right?
And sometimes it's like one problem.

(51:39):
We're solving and IDS ing one problem, like forthe entire amount of time, or maybe even a
couple weeks for the same problem because it'sjust that big or hairy or whatever it is.
Right?
So it's a wonderful it's definitely a wonderfulstructure.
I can't say, enough about it.
And, you know, just when we think that we've,like, emptied our list, then we go through,
like, our annual strategic plans, and then itjust fills up our list all over again.

(52:03):
It fills it fills right back up.
There's yeah.
It it was the same thing.
Phil, who's our operations head of operationswas like, well, I don't like having all these,
I think we're at 30 things in our IDS rightnow.
I was talking to Phil, was like, well, I thinkit's not, we're not trying to deploy when we
just have three and we solve them every time.
It's about having that running list out there.

(52:25):
And it's okay if it's not done.
Regularly get onto one or two topics and wespend the entire time
on that.
But I think it's about and what I've noticedtoo as we go through in other discussions and
some of those things that were issues start tofall off as you read through this.
Oh, wait a minute, that's kind of worked itselfout.
Like it's not something you always have to IDS,but we have spent lots of time, multiple

(52:46):
meetings, most of them on maybe one to possiblytwo.
Rarely do we get through three.
That is very normal, especially if they'rehairy issues.
We had that for a while, especially when wewere doing stuff around client experience.
Yep.
Yep.
The amount of time we spent around clientexperience, that was like a two and a half year
process of like hammering things around clientexperience.

(53:08):
So we can talk offline about that.
And for anyone else that's out listening outthere, boy, we've got we've we've got stories
to tell about that.
Yeah.
But Yeah.
It is it is you.
And then and then that that turns into the rockand all the other longer term item.
Yeah, I mean, there's just a lot of things, andthere's just some things I think are gonna be
chronic chronic aspects of solving business.
It's just the nature of the game.
Yeah.

(53:29):
You know, as much as I would love to, we couldprobably talk about this for hours.
Justin, I think it's time for our lastquestion.
Alright.
For sure.
So we love to ask this question to everybodythat comes on the show.
If you could go back 20, what advice would yougive yourself?
2,000 Go back
to 02/2005.
I would say be patient and persistent.

(53:52):
It doesn't happen overnight.
It is a culmination of experience, meetingopportunity, and you capitalize on it.
If you do not have enough experience, youcannot even see the opportunity.
So I think, as I came out young, I was gung ho,I'm still a go getter.
I had really no tie to how long things take toget the right experience, to understand it

(54:15):
holistically, and just find a way to not goultrawide hot and run yourself into the ground,
to just constant steady pressure and beliefthat you can make it happen.
Whatever that might be, whatever is your placeyou wanna get to, you can and will get there.
Persistence and patience.
Just keep pushing on.
It's great.
Oh, I love it.
It's great.

(54:36):
Yeah.
This is then it's a of fun.
If somebody wanted to get ahold of you, Grant,what's the best way for them to do that?
Yeah.
We've got a website,holdsworthconstruction.com.
You can see some of the work we've done before.
My email is [e-mail].
You wanna shoot me an email or give me a call.
I like to talk on the phone.
I think it's a good way to connect with people.
You can call me on the phone, [phone].

(54:59):
So any one of those formats work, I am ready togo.
Awesome.
Awesome.
Awesome.
Before we say our goodbyes, is there anythingelse you'd like to tell the people?
Stick with it, man.
As soon as you think you've got it figured out,if you think it's gonna be that hard times by
ten, you'll have it figured out.
That's okay with you.
Go.
Go after it.
Get it done.
Love it.
This has been a ton of fun.

(55:19):
As I mentioned in the beginning, just a goodhuman being to know.
Connect with him.
You will not be disappointed anyway.
And until next time.
Adios.
Thanks for listening to Building Scale.
To help us reach even more people, please sharethis episode
with a
friend, colleague, or on social media.
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(55:45):
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(56:08):
And until next time.
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