January 7, 2025 • 51 mins
Kendra Dinkins shares her journey and the history of Taylor Electric, highlighting the role of family and the challenges of market diversification. She discusses partnering with larger contractors and navigating MBE/WBE obstacles while emphasizing the importance of building trust in business partnerships. Kendra talks about proving worth as a minority-owned business, evaluating customer fit, and the significance of learning to say no. The episode delves into family business dynamics, decision-making, and managing economic downturns, including the impact of COVID-19. Kendra addresses employee loyalty, overcoming imposter syndrome, and leadership as an introvert, offering advice on self-care and work-life balance.
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(00:00):
I'm thinking it's in the next 100 years.
(00:01):
So
Yeah.
There we go.
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I'm Will Foratt.
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Today's guest is Kendra Dinkins, president andCEO of Taylor Electric Company, a flat owned,
female owned, and family operated businessserving the Chicagoland area since 1922.
She's the 4th generation of her family to leadthe company, which specializes in residential,
(01:27):
commercial, industrial, and maintenanceelectrical work.
Some notable projects that they've worked on iselectrical upgrades at the Willis Tower or for
Chicagoans, also known as the Sears Tower.
Ongoing work at O'Hare Airport, includingterminal 5 expansion, maintenance, soldier
field, and guaranteed rate.
As a SOX man, I I still call Comiskey since1990, and then, projects for organizations like
(01:48):
Chicago Public Schools, University of Chicago,Loyola Medical.
And one that's really cool is you guys lit thecity of Chicago Christmas tree this year,
which, I I don't know.
That just it seems like that's probably, like,not the most, you know, biggest project, but it
just seems fun to me, so I love that.
Some of, Kendra's professional achievements isshe serves the executive committee of the
Electrical Contractors Association of the Cityof Chicago.
(02:11):
She's past president of the Federation of WomenContractors, founding member and past president
of Black Contractors Owners and Executives alsoknown as FECO, cochair of the March of Dimes
Construction and Transportation Awards, exofficio member of Taylor Electric Cares, a
nonprofit promoting opportunities for women andminorities in electrical industry.
She was inducted into the Electric Associationof Chicago Hall of Fame in 22 and named one of,
(02:37):
Crane Chicago's Business Notable Women inConstruction and Design in 21, to name a few of
the amazing things she's done.
And with all that said, Kendra, welcome to theshow.
Thanks.
Thanks for having me.
Yeah.
I when I was going through the bio, I was like,what do I cut?
And I'm like, I can't cut anything.
This is all amazing.
And I had so much commentary.
You know?
I one, we love Chicago because inherently, aspot located in Chicago, headquartered there.
(03:02):
And me living there most of my life, it wasjust like, oh my god.
Like, I know all of these things, and it's sofun.
So, it's just really exciting.
So and, over a 100 years in business, 4thgeneration, black owned, woman owned, like, you
are doing all the things that are against therules.
It's like you are beating all the odds out,which I love, but tell us more about it.
(03:25):
I I'm obviously gushing about it, but you tellus your story.
How did you get into construction and tell usabout Taylor?
Sure.
So like you said, Taylor Electric, we're a 102years old now.
So it started by my great grandfather in 1922.
As you can imagine back then, it was kindatough to get started in the industry as a black
man, but he actually through thecorrespondence, male correspondence, he learned
(03:49):
the trade on his own.
He begged the school to let him take the test,and they allowed him to do so.
He ended up having to work for contractors forfree for a year just to learn it on his own,
and then Taylor Electric Company was started asa necessity so he can go out, strike out
business for himself and and do for himself.
Could you remind the people real quick?
Because I think people don't necessarilyunderstand what it was a 100 years ago, paint a
(04:14):
little bit of a picture of what he couldn't doas a as a black man.
So one of the things is, you know, like I said,he he took the class via mail correspondence.
Well, back then, the US Postal Service did notdeliver books to black folks.
It was it was clear that, you know, educationis a key, and there are a lot of different
barriers to education and, a lot of governmentsponsored educations barriers to education.
(04:39):
So he actually found a white friend to orderthe books for him, and he took those classes
online, you know, not online, but via via mail.
And then then he showed up to the school andbegged and begged, you know, to let them take
the test.
So, yeah, it it's, he actually here's anotherfunny well, not funny story.
One of his nicknames was actually shotgun Sambecause he used to have to sleep on his job
(05:03):
sites with a shotgun or else, you know, thenext morning, all the pipe and wire would be
pulled out.
When he
started yeah.
When he started pulling, when he first startedpulling permits at Taylor Electric Company with
the city of Chicago, they'd figure out where hewas with those permits and come to his job
sites.
Holy cow.
Yeah.
Is the world that's I mean, does it stillhappen today?
(05:26):
Yes.
But it's way more rare.
Exactly.
It's a it's a it's a little bit different thesedays.
You know, you just have the implicit bias thatI think we're all trying to fight off.
But, you know, still some barriers toeducation, still a lot of things going on.
We at Taylor and and some of the otherorganizations on that, we're trying to fight
that at every every corner.
So
It's like I said it before, like, against allodds.
(05:49):
Resilience is not enough of a word to describeTaylor.
That's that's certainly.
So cheers to shotgun, Sam.
Certainly.
So, you know, you didn't auto magically justget into Taylor.
No.
Tell us and and you're 4th generation.
Right?
So there's 3 generations in front of you beforeeven you got to be at the helm.
(06:10):
And that's such a rarity.
Like, a 100 year old company is that is rareerror on its own.
4th generation, that is super rare error.
After 2nd generation, a lot of times thatfizzles out.
So 4th generation, holy cow.
Exactly.
And then black and women owned, like, you arein the point 001% or something like that of
(06:34):
companies, like, to have survived.
Something like that.
Like, when I first took over, somebody sat medown.
I was like, you know, only 6% of family ownedbusinesses make it to the 4th generation.
And I was like, thanks.
So yeah.
So I came out of it.
I I came in a very roundabout way.
So my dad actually started at Taylor as anapprentice, worked his way all the way up to
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chief of operations.
And, you know, he was old school.
In his head, he knew what was happening in thefield with women in the industry.
And, you know, it was also back when everybodywas promoting college over trade school.
So, you know, he was like, I'm not busting mybutt out here in the field just so I can have
my daughters, you know, do the same after me.
So we were forbidden to go to trade school.
We had to go to college.
We you know, he made us go.
(07:19):
And so my degree is in biology.
20 years ago, I was teaching and working in anall girls boarding school out in North Carolina
and came back home temporarily, startedinterviewing at other schools.
And my dad was like, oh, no.
We need help in the accounting office.
And
that was 2,007.
When he needed some help.
Exactly.
Exactly.
(07:40):
But, yes, that was 2007.
And, so I've been with the company ever since.
I think, about 2013, it was came apparent thatwe were going to start transitioning over.
So I I had started taking classes inconstruction management and finance and things
of that nature.
And in 2015, we finished the buyout agreement,and I took over the the day to day operations.
(08:01):
So you did a lot of schooling.
What drew you towards I mean, is it just beingaround it that drew you towards the industry,
or was your, you know, arm actually twistedinto it?
It was really twisted into it.
Like, you know, I was interviewing at otherschools, but I just wasn't sure what I wanted
to do.
So I did jump on the opportunity to stay inChicago another year or 2 until I figured it
(08:22):
out.
Then what happened was, you know, that 2,008recession hit, which for most contractors, if
you had a decent backlog, that crunch didn'tstart to hit you to, like, 2010, 2011.
And so by then, I've been there a couple ofyears.
We had to start downsizing and doing differentthings in different ways to survive.
I just started picking up more stuff just as,like, you know, this is our family's company.
(08:44):
It's what you gotta do.
So, you know, I went from just being thebookkeeper to suddenly being like a junior
project manager.
And then that next thing you know, I'm goinghead to head with GCs on behalf of the project
managers.
And so we just started picking up more andmore, and it it just made sense when 2013 came
around and, our cousin wanted to she wanted toretire that, you know, me and my sister were
(09:05):
next in line.
Family obviously being important to any familyorganization, but what does what does family
mean to Taylor?
Like, what is what part of the culture doesthat that create for for the organization?
I think it I think it creates a great culturefor the organization.
Like I said, like, this this company wasstarted out of necessity and take so that Sam
could take care of his family.
And so that's sort of the philosophy that wekeep going here.
(09:28):
I've got my Taylor Jenkins family that I haveto take care of, But I also have about 80 other
families depending on us to, you know, to dosome good work and make sure that they
consistently have work lined up as well.
So I think we work really hard as a family.
We make sure that we're looking out for ouremployees and their well-being.
Our philosophy, as long as we're taking care ofour employees, they're taking care of our
(09:49):
customers.
So, when you first when Taylor first started,right, and even when we're talking about, you
know, taking it from really previousgeneration.
Has the company how has the company changed interms of what work what type of work you do,
who you do work for?
(10:09):
And, ultimately, you took the helm, you tookthe you took the helm.
So you were able to actually change, changesome some things.
Right?
Once you're at the helm, you're responsible.
You're accountable.
You're responsible.
That is on you.
Whether you win, you fail, that's on you.
Right?
Yep.
So so what changes have you made and why?
So I think one of the biggest changes I madewas sort of making sure we diversified
(10:33):
ourselves.
When I first came in, we were just followingwhere the money was.
And so about 80% of our market share of ourmarket share was, multiunit residential, which
of course was not fun after the housing crash.
So, you know, we we do commercial work andother things like that, but I think we've
gotten so bogged down into multiunitresidential that, you know, we hadn't didn't
(10:54):
have enough diversity to really, We survived,but it was, you know, sort of kinda scraping
by.
So, you know, we've expanded into thecommercial market and the health care market,
institutional, educational.
We've tried it.
We actually picked up one more.
We we've been doing a guaranteed rate fieldnow.
Well, SOX Park.
Uh-huh.
And,
Soldier Field, we've been doing those for about20 some, almost 30 years, but we picked up, at
(11:18):
Navy Pier and a few other smaller customers aswell in our service and maintenance department.
So why those markets?
Right?
Why health care?
Why, I guess what is it?
Data centers would be the institutional side?
Yeah.
Data centers.
Well, institutional side would be more like thecolleges, and things of that.
So we kinda stay away from data centers justbecause we're a little bit small, and those are
(11:41):
very big and fast paced.
But data centers and health care, and our serveservice and maintenance, those are just sort of
steadying markets.
Health care, you know, you're always gonna havesomebody sick, so they're always gonna be, you
know, building something or reapprovingsomething or even the maintenance in their
buildings.
Data centers, there's more, you know, there'sextremely more and more data, so there's gonna
(12:01):
be work there.
And then service and maintenance.
A lot of people, you know, you go after the newconstruction of the job, but actually, you look
at the lifespan of a building, 80% of thebudget is on maintaining that building.
So, you know, getting that maintenance afterthe building is built is, you know, it's like
an annuity.
It's always our monthly.
You you got a little bit coming in becauseyou're taking, you know, you're you've got at
(12:23):
least a couple electricians assigned to itlooking after it.
Yeah.
That's that, recurring revenue model, whichcertainly software loves, you know, software
companies.
I mean, I think one of our one of our guestslately had said, like, yeah.
It used to be you bought a Microsoft licenseand then you were good for, like, 15 years,
which, you know, we don't necessarily recommendthat at Spot, but that was what was happening.
(12:44):
And now it's like, oh, no.
You're paying every month forever.
Like, that's just how it works.
So cut, construction getting more into thatmaintenance side of saying like, hey.
Like, you just need stuff done all the time,helps the business, cash flow aspects, and
things like that.
So, and you'd mentioned, size and, like, youknow, not being the biggest electro contractor
(13:04):
to do institutional work is I think is is whatyou're saying.
That means, obviously, you have to partner,right, to do bigger stuff.
What what does partnering look like, Taylor?
So for us, yeah, we, you know, we're members ofa lot of different organizations, so we come in
contact with a lot of different competitors,some
of the larger electrical contractors as well.
So some
of the larger projects that definitely need MBEdollars, we partner up with larger electricals
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on.
Just like in the health care industry, we, youknow, we consider ourselves pretty new in that.
And so it doesn't make sense for us to go outfirst job, and we're gonna bid it and do it on
our own.
No.
Let's find a partner that actually does this ona regular basis.
Let's kinda learn how they do it and then workon our scale.
So we're we're partnered with some folks onthese huge hospitals, but then on our own now,
(13:49):
we're starting to do little small clinics andthings like that on our own as we work to build
ourselves to scale up to be able to do a largersort of project like that.
So that's where partnering with largerelectricals are really helpful.
Remind me, but isn't it true you have to beunder a certain size for to essentially get the
(14:09):
MBE or WBE status?
Is that correct?
Yeah.
There are there are limits to your yourpersonal net worth as an owner of the company,
and there's also limits to the amount ofrevenue that you can have in, you know, in a
certain amount of years.
And it varies from state to state, city tocity.
Chicago follows the SBA, Small BusinessAssociation, parameters.
(14:31):
And so for us, it's not necessarily been about,you know, staying under that radar.
We've just been growing basically, you know,with the rate of inflation.
But, you know, with our rate of growth, we donecessarily, you know, have to be cognizant
that, you know, one day we're gonna get kickedout of this program, and we have to you know,
another reason why we started, you know,diversifying is we're gonna have to, you know,
(14:53):
build ourselves a backlog that's not dependenton public work.
And so health care and universities and thingslike that, those are, you know, institutions
that we do well in and hopefully will help usin that future.
So what I'm hearing is you're making chessmoves.
How far into the future are you thinking?
I'm thinking into the next 100 years.
(15:13):
So Yeah.
There we go.
You gotta you gotta be really long term.
I think one thing I learned, like, when we'reespecially when we were, you know, geared, it
might be a, you know, a 2 to 5 year plan, butwe're thinking about how it's gonna affect I'm
thinking about how it's gonna affect the nextgeneration, hopefully, when we make it to the
5th 6th generation.
That's crazy to think about.
(15:34):
Like, that to, you know, like, it's already,like you know?
Because, you know, I I assume you've got a lotof time still left at Taylor, certainly.
Yeah.
But you're like, well, the 5th 6th generation,where where are they gonna go?
What are we gonna make sure that we're settingthem up for success, which is awesome.
For those those programs, the MB, MBE and WBE,what what are the the caps?
(15:55):
What is the restrictions that that you do have,and how can we help you increase those
restrictions or those caps?
Sure.
So I believe SBA for, like, a subcontractorlike myself is 19,000,000.
And then, the city of Chicago takes that19,000,000 and adds, I think, a 1.5 per, like,
(16:16):
1.5 times that amount just to make up for thefact that the city of Chicago's got
1,000,000,000 of dollars at stake.
And so trying to cap all the MBE contractorsmeans you're not gonna really get as as much
MBE work as you're really wanting to get withinthe city.
So I think it's, like, about about 23,000,000spread over, I think, like, 5 to 7 years.
It's like an average.
Once you get over that hump, then for the cityof Chicago, you start to, like so say you come
(16:44):
graduate out of the program, it's a scaledgraduation.
So the next year, everything that you do, say Ido a $1,000,000 worth of work, only 75% of it
will count as a MBE.
So 750,000 of it will be considered MBEdollars, and then it goes down to 50% and 25%,
and that's to kinda help with graduationbecause a lot of folks I think the latest stat
(17:06):
on graduation is once you graduate out of theMBE or DBE program, you tend to lose about a
take about a 60% revenue hit, which, you know,black wire in between, a lot of people can't
take that.
So the city is trying to soften that blow in acertain way.
I feel like, you know, what we've been goingafter is increasing the limits, at least for
them MEP contractors, because they are so much,you know, a part of the job and have so much
(17:32):
involved in it.
Like a general most of your general, verticalstructures, about 10 to 12% of that budget is
the electrical.
And that means boots on the ground, that's awhole lot of labor.
And, you know, general contractors, I thinkthey have a limit of about 50,000,000.
And a lot of them, sometimes it depends ifthey're general contractor or Centimeters
whether or not they even have skin in the game.
(17:53):
And so, you know, you've got sub contractorsbasically funding these projects via our labor
and, you know, buying of the materials, andthen we're capped at what we can do.
Some years, I might need to scale up, you know,just to make up for, like, the COVID losses
that we had.
You know?
Like, maybe we gotta go a couple of years andscale up our revenue just to make up for that
loss, and we can't quite do that be in a safeand effective way.
(18:17):
So raising the caps, I think, more at least tomatch inflation.
SBA doesn't raise them, like, at least, like,sometimes every 5 years, whether it is the
price of labor goes up every year.
The price of copper goes up every second.
You know?
So, you know, it just it needs to be morerealistic in that way.
So let's talk a little bit about, I guess,partnering.
(18:37):
Right?
Because you can't do everything.
And a lot of I remember in the pre, kind of inthe pre interview, you talked a little bit
about what it was like to partner way back whenand even now and learning lessons.
Right?
How do you build trust?
How do you find that?
And then sometimes even through therelationships, things go well and things go
(19:00):
sideways.
How does trust kind of compare to that?
And do you have any stories around, you know,good and bad examples?
Let's not name any names, but let's you know,good and bad examples of, like, what can happen
in a trusting and not so trusting relationship.
Yeah.
Precisely.
I think I think what's the most important isthat when you're going into and lots a lot of
(19:23):
times, like, the pre meetings and the BINmeetings and things like that, when you're
talking with the customer or you're evenpartnering with another electrical, that
they're treating you like a true partner.
Like, they believe you can do this work, notyou're not just sort of there to check off that
MBE box and, you know, you're willing to sortof work together.
And they're not just like, well, give us thebid.
We'll tell you whether you're high or low orwhether you're not you got the job.
(19:43):
Like, they're actually working with you on.
You've got questions.
They've got answers.
They view you and respect you as actualelectrical contractor, you know, not a MBE
contractor.
It's really important because now, of course,when things happen in the field, you tend to be
the lowest on the totem pole.
So, you know, you just wanna try to find apartner that's not gonna throw you under the
bus in the meantime.
(20:04):
And also someone who kinda shares yourphilosophy.
Like, we had we were actually the prime on aproject.
It was a big box store.
We were working with a GC, and they were justthey had the philosophy that we're the GC.
Everything's right.
You're wrong.
This is how I want it done, you know, and notnecessarily wanna listen or pay attention, to
the point where the job just got slowed downridiculously for a lot of different reasons.
(20:27):
Some of it wasn't even their fault.
And the the box store, they have their own theyhave their own construction management crew, so
they came in town to come.
They wanted to come check the site, and the GCwas like, oh, no.
We need to put some generators out there.
We need to, like, basically temporary light theplace and make it look like it was way more
done than what it was.
And we were just like, you know, why don't youjust tell your customer what's happening?
(20:49):
Or why didn't you just, months ago, starttelling your customers some of the issues that
were happening that got us to this point?
But instead of that, they just, you know, like,okay.
Well, no.
Light it.
Get it done.
And then if it's not right, then I guess you'rethe problem.
You're the one who's holding everything up.
And so, again, the, the construction managercame on-site.
Of course, he, you know, he's been around theblock a few times.
(21:09):
He can see when somebody trying to pull thewool over his eyes, and but we had a really
good foreman out there who really knew herstuff.
And she walked him through the site and said,this is what's done.
This is what's not done.
This is why things are happening.
You know?
And really kinda gave them sort of an eyeopening experience, which, you know, we ended
up finishing the job.
It was on time.
I don't think we made any money off of it.
But, again, the GC, they got their stuff in ontime.
(21:32):
We got our stuff in on time.
And, you know, I think we still bid to them,and we still we're we're probably a little bit
more cautious when we go into jobs with them,but they also know us to be someone who's gonna
stick to our word and finish a job no matterwhat.
So the the the main kind of partnerships we'dlike to have are ones where, you know, we're
involved in day 1.
We're helpful in the design and build process.
(21:55):
You know, we're in their shop.
They're in our shop.
You know, we walk sites together.
We come up with plans together.
We solve problems together.
We take hits together.
Those are the kind of relationships you wannahave.
Do you find that GCs or CMs, try to dictatemore?
Right?
You know, like, obviously, you're coming inbecause you are the expert at that trade.
(22:15):
Right?
Like, it's just like, you wouldn't hire acompany.
We wouldn't hire a company to do our marketingand then try to tell them how to do marketing.
Right?
Like, that doesn't why would we do that?
Like, that seems silly.
Obviously, you can have questions and, like,hey.
This is guidance and different things, but,like, you're the experts.
You I I've hired you to tell me how we shoulddo this thing.
(22:37):
So do you do you is that something that you'vejust seen in the in the industry where it's
like when you're a a specialty trader or asubcontractor, like, you just find that, like,
you there's a level of disrespect effectivelyof, like, hey.
Like, we're the experts.
Like, that's just true.
That's why we're here.
Yeah.
I do.
I I see we often kinda run into that from timeto time, and some of it I think is, like I
(22:59):
said, that implicit bias that comes in,especially if you're coming in as a MBE or a
woman owned contractor.
They a lot of times, they make that assumptionthat you don't know what you're doing.
And, you know, like I tell my staff all thetime, it's it's about being consistent in the
work product that you do and the communicationthat you have.
I tell them all the time, be so good at yourjob because a lot of this is you know, this
(23:22):
industry seems large, but it's really a lot ofpeople know each other and a lot of folks talk.
And so I tell them, be so good at your job thatif somebody, you know, on the street says
something bad about Taylor Electric, no one'sgonna believe them.
No one's gonna believe them.
They're gonna like, well, I don't no.
They finished this work.
They did this job, and they were they were goodwith me.
I don't understand what you're talking aboutsort of thing.
So I think consistency is key, to sort of, youknow, endure those kind of issues.
(23:46):
I think, you know, with a lot of the DEI andthing and and different things and, inclusive
initiatives, I think, you know, as the more ofthose gets pushed, I think the more folks are
exposed to different types of contractors,different types of people, and and understand
that we all, you know, are in this togetherand, you know, interested in getting the work
done and capable of doing the work.
(24:08):
How do you fight that stigmatism?
Right?
Like, it's just it's essentially what it is.
Right?
It's just like we are womanhood, we areminority.
Like, that is just a fact, but that doesn'tchange the fact that we're also a 4th
generation 100 year old company that, like,knows what we're doing.
Like, how how do you fight that stigmatism?
So it's not I I tell people it's not my job totell you how much I'm worth.
(24:31):
Like, I, you know, I can sit here and fight andfight and fight all day.
As long as I am making sure that TaylorElectric is better than they were yesterday,
then that's what we need to do.
Like, we're not we're not gonna get all thejobs.
You know?
Usually, when we get our foot in the door, thenit becomes a long term relationship, and that's
because of that consistency.
But, if I spend all my time fighting, fighting,fighting, we would be nowhere.
(24:55):
I think just trying to be the best that you canbe is is gonna be your best bet, and that
helps.
You know, that does eventually you know, thathelps with other contractors that are coming
through the door after me that they see, okay.
Well, this contract, they, oh, they actuallyknow what they're doing and they can get it
done.
You know, that's our focus is just us rightnow.
I love that.
At Spot, one of our core values is continuousimprovement, and that's that's it.
(25:19):
Right?
If every day you just get a little bit betteras a company and as a as a human being.
Right?
Like, you always end up in a better place atthe end, and you you have less time spent
trying to prove the fact that you're valued.
I I love that the mindset that you have.
So, you know, even as a 100 year old company,you're continuing to learn.
(25:41):
Talk to us a little bit about so partnershipsis one aspect, but what about customers?
You'd said before, you said yes to almosteverything.
And now that's not necessarily the case.
Why is that?
Yeah.
I think when I first came in, it was a hardlearned lesson for me.
When I first came in, we were, you know, we'rea bit cash strapped.
(26:01):
We definitely need to boost our revenue, so itwas just sort of yes to everything.
We'll take this.
We'll take this.
It'll be you know, it might be a little bittight margin, but we can get it done and, you
know, learn the very hard way that that's justnot always the way to go.
So, you know, we're definitely more mindful,purposeful.
When when we take a look at jobs, we take alook at the customer.
We might take a look at if we've done work withthem.
You know, what's their pay history?
(26:22):
Can we afford to you know, even if they're likea 60 day payout contractor or a 90 day payout
contractor, can we afford to do that?
Does that fit within our cash flow?
Is it work that we can really do and do wellwith margins?
And, you know, sometimes we have to say no tofolks.
Sometimes it's because, you know, we just feellike the timing or the margins won't work for
(26:42):
us, but sometimes we gotta be realistic thatwe're not gonna give them the product that they
want.
And we'll tell them that upfront, like, youknow, this might we might not be the best fit
for you.
Someone who's in a lot of advocacyorganizations, I could probably point you in a
direction of somebody who could be a fit foryou.
And, you know, that has earned us some respectrespect amongst the industry and actually has
actually weren't earned us more work sometimes.
(27:04):
How does has so just to be clear, just for ourlisteners, has saying no hurt any
relationships?
No.
I've never I've never had a customer that Isaid no to completely walk away from us.
A lot of times, if we're saying no, we'retelling you why.
Like, oh, you know, it might just be, hey.
You know what?
The timing is not right.
I got too much on my plate right now.
(27:25):
This won't get the attention it deserves.
Or it might be, hey.
This is too big, too fast.
I would like to bid it, but I would like tobring in a partner.
Are you okay with that?
Or, you know, it's like, hey.
No.
We're not the specialty that you need.
You know?
Here's a contractor that is a specialty.
And that way they know they can trust us.
Most of the time, you know, a bid is a bid.
You got the numbers there.
(27:45):
But a lot of the times, the customer, theywanna know who they can trust for the next 2
years to get this job done.
So if you're coming at it from a position oftrust, if you're coming at it in a way that's
honest and, you know, sometimes a lot of timeswe've said no, and they're like, okay.
Well, no.
We're willing to work with you on this.
We know you don't have a full on BIMdepartment, but we'll, you know, we'll lend you
our guys or we would point you in the rightdirection of a company that could get it done.
(28:08):
We still want you on this project sort ofthing.
Because, I mean, if at the end of the day, if,you know, they've gotta risk, you know,
$5,000,000 on the job with with a contractorthey trust and know that's gonna give them the
honest truth or risk $5,000,000 on a job withsomeone who's just got the low bid and you're
not you know, you you know, they're justpromising you the world without, you know,
(28:29):
really giving you any kind of details oranything like that, you might go with the
custom you know, with the contractor that youtrust.
That's, another, similarity in our businesses.
That core one of the another core value of oursis being Canon.
So, like, we we that's why we enjoy you somuch.
That's it's pretty straightforward.
Will has met you multiple times, but the firsttime I I we spoke, literally just earlier this
(28:52):
week, I was like, oh my god.
Kendra's amazing.
Like, she's just she's just great.
So it makes sense.
When you find people that are just similar inwhat they value and, like, what is important to
them, it means a lot.
And, obviously, your partners don't see that.
Right?
You can't do everything, so saying no also justleads to more respect in in a deeper
relationship, but it's what it sounds like.
(29:13):
I love the candor as well as the in additionto, like, the why.
Right?
I think I think answering the why, not justbeing short with someone, whether even if that
is you are being candid, but the why to helpset sort of that expectation, right, and
transparency in your own company.
I think it's looking out for the in a way, it'slooking out for the customer.
(29:37):
Right?
Or what could potentially be the customer, butthey're just not gonna be your customer this
time around.
Right.
And the industry is just not as big as peoplepeople think.
Everyone knows everyone.
Exactly.
So, I wanna take it internally for a second.
Internal to your company.
Because there is and especially Adrian'sbecause it's family.
(30:00):
There's other family members.
Right?
Which means that their ownership isn't just100% you.
It's really multiple family members.
So I've heard good things and bad things inpartnerships, but family makes it makes a
different dynamic.
K?
I imagine it's hard.
However, I wanna hear it from you.
(30:21):
How do decisions like, I I would think bigdecisions, but how do decisions get made in the
business?
So we have so we're we're spread against 3rd4th generation ownership with the company right
now.
So it's 3 owners, me, my sister, and my cousin.
And so, you know, it boils down to a lot oftrust and trying to be as open as possible.
(30:44):
It's definitely not easy all the time.
We have had a couple of difficult thanksgivingswhere we kinda show up and throw food on the
table, say your prayers, and eat and alright.
Bye.
So you know?
But I think at the end of the day, you know,we've we've we've had to have the heart to
heart discussions that at the end of the day,we all want the same thing.
We wanna be able to, you know, be successful,pass this on to the next generation.
(31:06):
So, you know, as long as a lot of the times,ultimately, I'm the person making the final
decision, but I'm also letting the family knowexactly what's going on step by step.
We have family meetings.
We have our board of directors, which is allfamily.
And so they're definitely given a lot of inputeven though there's only 3 owners.
You know?
Yes.
The family is about 6 or 7 people who are, youknow you know, bonded with the company in some
(31:29):
way or the other that, you know, that are veryhelpful.
So, obviously, mentality be you're the finaldecision maker, mentality around certain
decisions.
So you're look you're you're the 100 yearoutlook decision maker.
Right?
You're looking really long term.
(31:51):
Is there so I wanna put some context to this,just because of my own personal experiences.
Is it hard to keep family members accountablefor their actions?
And in addition to that, how do you keepaccountability in that type of a structure?
I'd say it's really difficult to hold familymembers accountable because you don't wanna I
(32:15):
mean, you love them.
And then at the end of the day, you want what'sbest for them.
But you also need to understand you gotta lovethe company and and want what's best for the
company.
I think sometimes a lot of it is really hard tokeep me accountable.
Like, who's holding me accountable here?
Sometimes with some of the decisions I make, Ithink I I struggle with that sometimes.
That comes from the fam.
(32:35):
For us, it comes from, like, the familyconversations where we have to have a sit down
like, hey.
This is what's working and this is what isn'tworking.
You know?
We try to be as agile as possible.
Like, you know, you know, this might not be afit for you, but do you wanna help out here?
Or, you know, we're just trying to when we'relooking to bring on family members, like, what
are their strengths and weaknesses and kind ofput them in that guide them in that direction.
(32:58):
But, you know, we've had to, you know, we'vehad to come down hard.
We've had to fire family members, and and Ithink, you know, it might put some relationship
on the strain of the family, but I think alsothe staff need to know and understand that
there's accountability there, even at thehigher level.
You know, if they see a family member andthey're, you know, like, oh my gosh, Well,
their family member, they can't do x, y, and z,and they see that they're being held
(33:20):
accountable as well.
They, you know, understand that at the end ofthe day, everybody, you know, is on the same
page, and they've got the opportunity to growand move up in the company and not necessarily
think that there's some sort of level that theycan't attain because it's gonna be all family
members up there or something like that.
That's, the other 80 families that you'reyou're, you know, putting putting their
(33:44):
interest there too.
Right?
Like, if one family member, you know, Taylorfamily member is, for whatever reason, isn't
doing what they should be doing in in whatevercapacity, those other 80 families are looking
to you to to right the ship.
So that's that's gonna be a very difficultposition, especially when you are gonna have
Thanksgiving, with them, and and that creates aweird dynamic.
(34:05):
Yeah.
That I can only imagine how difficult that canbe.
Yeah.
As long as the money's flowing okay, then thefamily dynamics seem to be going well.
Got it.
I think we've learned a lot over the years.
We've we've survived a couple of recessions andthe the great depression, so we'll just keep
going.
Yeah.
Blow my mind right now.
Didn't even put that together.
(34:25):
Oh, yeah.
Not just 2,008, not just COVID.
Oh, yeah.
The great depression, by the way.
That's one that we we got in the the feather in
the cap.
No big deal.
You've survived a lot of hardships, you as inthe company, and you personally, with companies
since you've survived, you know, 2008, 2009.
How do you, do you see it coming?
(34:46):
Or or is it more you have to react and thenmake quick decisions?
And what type of decisions, hard or not, do youhave to make when that when, let's say, those
recessions happen or coming, etcetera?
Talk us through that.
Sometimes you can't see it coming.
You gotta pay attention to, you know, payattention to sort of the politics that's going
(35:07):
around, some of the economic, you know,situation that's going around.
You gotta really pay attention to currentevents.
And that usually sometimes gives you an idea ofwhat's happening around you.
So, you know, I think we we've been that lastrecession we had with that minor I think it was
sort of a minor recession.
But I think we were sort of prepared for it.
A lot of times construction can be cyclicalwhere, you know, we've got a there's a lot of
(35:31):
work going on in the city, and then all of asudden, this sort of shrink.
Like, right now, you don't see a whole lot ofcranes up.
So things have been kinda slow, but, you know,2025 and 2026 is actually looking quite better.
I think understanding how those trends go.
So a lot of times in a recession, governmentslike to spin themselves out of a recession,
which is great.
That means there's a lot more public work goingbecause they wanna try to prop up the
(35:55):
construction industry in that way.
So understanding what happens during arecession is also very important.
But then you also you know, every now and then,you're gonna get a gut punch that you don't see
coming, like COVID.
For us, COVID beat the crap out of us.
Excuse my language.
But, that was that was really tough.
We had just you know, we we were you know,climbed ourselves out of, you know, what was
(36:17):
happening with that last recession just tokinda get get hit.
It was a smaller company and especiallysometimes MBEDBE contractors.
A lot of times, we can be sort of the canariesin the in the coal mine.
They start struggling, then you know the restof the industry is probably gonna start
struggling, but you gotta pay attention to it.
A lot of people just said, oh, well, they'resmaller or they don't, you know, know what
(36:37):
they're doing, and that's why they'restruggling.
No.
No.
That's that's the signal that, you know, hardtimes are coming for all of us.
They're just, you know, hitting them first sortof thing.
So at this really just paying attention.
Sometimes you're gonna be prepared.
A lot of sometimes you're not, but I thinkcommunicating is is is is also just really,
really important.
I think we really had to we had to cometogether and really communicate, really kinda
(37:01):
change some of the ways that we did.
We're a little old school, right before COVID,and we're still are.
We're working our way through that.
So I think that kinda exasperated the issue forus, but, you know, you you learn as you go.
If you're not learning anything, you know, thatnext recession hits and you're still in the
same spot, then, you know, you probably deservewhat you get.
(37:23):
So I I don't I don't wanna I wanna make surethat I'm not misinterpreting or reading between
the lines here.
Do you keep so during, let's say, the recessionor the COVID, do you keep all your people or do
you have to furlough layoff people?
What happens during those really rough times?
Right.
And let's be honest here for a second.
It's not that they're doing a bad job.
(37:45):
Literally, and the decision making process orthe thinking behind it is if I don't have if
the company doesn't survive, then the rest ofthe people, no matter who the decision is with,
then doesn't survive either.
Right?
So you're kinda making are you making decisionsfor sort of the greater good of the mass amount
(38:06):
of people that you're responsible for?
Yeah.
Unfortunately, you do have to make those sortof decisions to try and avoid to have, I guess,
what you say, like, massive layoffs or anythinglike that is we keep a core group.
So we fluctuate anywhere between about 40 guysto a100.
We know that about 60, 65 keeps us going, atthe very base.
(38:29):
So we try to keep that that core group workingat all times if we can, so that when hard times
do hit, you know, we can at least try to keepthose folks going or you know those core people
who have been with us.
We've got electricians even though, you know,they're union electricians and they belong to
IBEW local 134 or local 9.
You know, they've been with us for at least adecade or 2 now.
(38:52):
They know they know how we operate.
And so if we come to them and say, hey.
You know, times are hard.
We might need you to sit for a little while or,you know, it might be a little bit time in
between jobs.
They understand what's going on.
They're willing to kind of tough it out withus.
You know?
Because a lot of times, you know, as a, youknow, as a union electrician, you can always
pick up work some places, but at times, youknow, things might get a little bit slow.
(39:16):
And so you wanna stick with a contractor thatyou trust.
And so when those slow times hit and, you know,they're there with us, you know, we we're
pretty honest with them about what's coming upwith the horizon, what what's gonna be
happening.
And, you know, if you ride with us, we'll takecare of us in Fairview.
If not, then, you know, that's, you know,that's your decision as well.
(39:37):
It's it's tough to kind of it's tough because,you know, you wanna take care of them, but you
also can't take things personally.
At the end of the day, everybody here has gottheir own family, their own partner, their own
kids, their own selves to take care of.
So they've gotta make these decisions that arebest for them.
So we try to make sure we give them theinformation of what's happening with Taylor.
Like, we we share our financials with thecompany.
(39:59):
I have a year once a year meeting where I kindalike, the state of Taylor, where we kinda talk
about we analyze what happened with thosefinancials, what the good and the bad were, and
kinda where we're moving from there.
When things got really, really bad one timeafter COVID, I sat them down and said, hey.
You're gonna be the 1st to know if I gotta pullthe plug on this.
If if things are getting this bad to where I'mthinking, like, we're gonna have to file
(40:23):
bankruptcy or something like that, you'll bethe first to know.
You'll know before the bank.
You'll know before anybody else, you know,because we want you guys to, you know, have a
safe passage to get through where you need toget through and, not start missing paychecks
because we can't make it or something likethat.
So I think it's I think the tough part is beinghonest with ourselves as a company and and and
being honest with them, and that might meankeeping them along or they might, you know,
(40:46):
wanna skedaddle.
So powerful.
That's a really powerful message, especially ina hard time like COVID where you just you are
unsure in the moment of, like, what is gonnahappen with with the organization.
So Yeah.
And we ended up we ended up recovering so thatour core group stayed with us.
That was thank god.
(41:07):
So this brings up a different piece, which isloyalty.
Right?
I I think loyalty gets put to the test duringthe tough times.
It's not when times are good.
When times are good, everyone's winning.
It's easy.
It's easy.
It's easy when things are great to stay loyal.
You know, we're rowing the boat, and if oneperson stops rowing, the boat still keeps
(41:27):
moving forward.
Great.
We're all winning.
Right?
Now now we've now we've got the Titanic, youknow, or a potential Titanic situation.
Right?
In trying to save the ship, that's when youreally know.
So do you only how do you know, or do you onlyknow in crisis, like, when who the real, you
(41:50):
know, the the really loyal people are?
And then how do you pay them back?
Well, we we definitely try to make sure youknow, I think our overall philosophy is sort of
taking care of our customers means kind ofknowing what they're I mean, taking care of our
employees means kinda knowing what they need inthe meantime in between time.
(42:11):
So, you know, I already know that, you know, acertain person, she's you know, they she or
he's probably got some issues, maybe issuesgoing on at home where they might need to work
from home 1 or 2 days out of the week, or, youknow, we might need to work out a different
plan for their schedule.
Or, you know, sometimes we offer small loansfor our employees when there's something
happening and they need to jump over a gap orsomething like that.
(42:33):
So you kinda get to know them well, what theirneeds are.
And so when times are hard, you know what youcan expect from them, and what not to expect
from them.
And also not take things personally.
Again, they've got their families to worryabout.
So, you know, loyalty to the company is onething, but they gotta be loyal to their
families as well.
And you can't take that personally if when thatloyalty when that sort of bumps head with what
(42:57):
what it is that you want or need.
What you can, you know, best hope for is to,you know, make sure that you're if you're
keeping the lines of communication open, youcan kinda see what's happening.
Like, we had, you know, we had an employeeleave once, and a lot of people were shocked,
but I kinda saw it coming.
It still wasn't great.
It wasn't, you know, a happy event or anythinglike that, but, you know, I kinda saw it coming
(43:18):
and, you know, we had to recover and recuperateand and and, you know, find somebody else to
put in that spot.
But, again, you've gotta really kinda know whatyou're working with with your core group, and
that's very helpful in terms of kind of, Iguess, assessing loyalty.
You obviously, you have the the family memberspart of the board.
Obviously, you you are the 2 partners, sisterand cousin.
(43:39):
You know, 10 years probably went by faster thanmaybe you thought, being CEO.
A lot of times when we're put in positions, tolead things, one of 2 things poke their head
up.
Either imposter syndrome of, like, saying,like, am I doing this right?
Am I doing this good?
Or the other side of, like, I can be I can dono wrong.
I am you know, the ego gets in the way.
What is what is that balance and challenge looklike in the last 10 years for you?
(44:02):
Obviously, having family probably helps, youknow, anchor you somewhat, but, I'd love to
hear your take.
So I definitely still to this day struggle withimposter syndrome.
I mean, I've got a degree in biology, and I'mover here trying to sell electrical work.
So
I know how to dissect a frog.
What what else do you need to know aboutconduit?
Exactly.
(44:23):
So I think it's really important to know yourstrengths and weaknesses and, again, know your
team.
Like, I depend a lot on our our our team andour family for different things.
And knowing when, you know, knowing when to askfor help, that was a hard learned lesson for me
as well.
But I think knowing I I'll take being, youknow, have a suffering with imposter syndrome
any day of the week rather than me kinda goingin with full confidence thinking I know
(44:46):
everything.
Because you just you'll never know everythingabout anything.
Like, even if I were even if my dad did allowme to go to trade school and I went up and, you
know, came up in the business like everybodyelse, I'd probably still, like, you know, kind
of question and make sure that, you know, thatI'm not just kind of jumping out here on a
limb.
Because again, it's not just me.
I know it's me and my house on the line, butagain, I got 80 other families that I gotta
(45:09):
think about in that process.
I'm a big introvert actually.
I know a lot of people don't think that of me,but I am an introvert.
So when I am off, I am off.
Like, I'm pjs and the dogs in the bed, like,don't bother me, don't call me sort of thing,
because it's exhausting for me to kinda be on,but that's my job.
I know that's what I have to do.
It's part of my job description.
(45:30):
And so, you know, just like everybody else,they may not wanna get up and go to work and
do, you know, x, y, and z, but they get up anddo it.
So I gotta get up and do it as well sort ofthing.
But I think as long as you keeping notnecessarily.
I take myself seriously to a point.
I can laugh at myself.
I make sure people understand around me and ourstaff that they can laugh at themselves and
(45:52):
also take themselves seriously at the sametime.
So I think approaching it from that is sort of,not only a good way of success, but just sort
of, you know, sort of a mental from a mentalhealth standpoint, can be very beneficial for
yourself and others.
Well, you could've fooled us.
So you're a learned extrovert.
That that that that's what you are.
(46:12):
You and I are very similar, in that regard.
Yeah.
It's so funny.
Will is definitely he's the I've known him fora very long time.
Introvert.
No question.
But, like, you get him in, like, a networkingsituation, he's like the belle of the ball.
Like, he will team like, he'll talk toeverybody in the room.
Like, he he's like, k.
Kath like, it's wild to see this evolution asas me and Will have known each other in
(46:36):
personal, life for a long time, that it's likeit's one, it's cool.
It's super cool too, but then it's also like mebeing like, look at like, look what Will's
doing.
Like, that's amazing.
The stretch that he's having is is sopersonally, but also professionally, like, so
cool for me to be able to see.
So I kudos to you for being similar in that wayof, like, that's not easy.
Like, going against the grain in any aspect ishard.
(46:58):
And you said biology where it's like, you know,you were you were one way or you're another way
based upon, like, how, you know, the chemicalsin your brain that get released, you know,
interacting with human beings and all thesedifferent things.
And it's like, that to me is wow, where I siton the other side and I wanna talk to everyone
ever that was ever made.
If I could go back in time in history so Icould talk to more people, that would be like,
that would I'm all in.
(47:19):
Awesome.
Justin, I think it's time for our lastquestion.
Sure.
Let's, let's do it.
Kendra, if you could go back not a 100 years,just 20 years, so just not you don't have to go
back a 100, Just 20 years.
What advice would you give yourself?
What would you tell yourself, that might helpin your journey the last 20 years?
I think the biggest thing I've had to learn thehard way on so many occasions is that you are
(47:44):
your best asset, that you really got to takecare of yourself.
And I know people like, it seems like, oh, selfcare is important and everything.
And I just say, like for me, I learned the veryhard way that if you build your life like
around your work and your work is not goingwell, then in your head, that means your life
is not going well.
(48:04):
And that's the part that's the part that youdon't realize when they say of care and, you
know, work life balance and stuff like that.
That's what they're talking about.
You know,
you've gotta have that balance.
You've gotta be able to, you know, take care ofyourself.
And, you know, like I tell some other folks,like, if the bank sees you treating your number
one asset like crap, like, why would they giveyou money?
Why would they believe in you?
Why, you know, why would they why would theytake a chance on you?
(48:25):
So you've gotta make sure you you're lookingout for yourself and your well-being in the
process.
I truly believe that the word selfish is issuch an unfair word.
Like, we you you you have to be selfish, whichsounds like the don't do that.
Don't be selfish.
Right?
But, like, you have to be selfish.
Like, you are the foundation for everythingelse in your life.
(48:48):
If it if you have kids, if you're just yourfamily in general, your work, foundations that
you're in, whatever you're doing relies uponyou being right.
Right?
Like, if you giving the best version ofyourself will be better for everybody around
you.
However, that takes work.
Like, that takes like, you have to be selfish.
So I love that advice.
I I think it's so true.
I I wish I could, you know, wave the magic wandand say, like, hey.
(49:11):
It's okay to, like, really take time and careabout yourself.
Like, you you don't need to put everybody elseahead of you or everything else in life ahead
of your needs.
And if that's just, like, you know, taking awalk just to give yourself a little time of
clarity or if it's, you know, not having tothink about, you know, what's for dinner for
(49:32):
your family every day and just saying like,hey.
Like, somebody else needs to to deal with thistoday.
Like, those things, which sound silly, like,you know, but when they stack up, it's it's
it's so meaningful and unbelievable.
So, great advice, Hendra.
I I love that.
Thanks.
Yeah.
This is this has been insane.
I love I love this episode.
So this is this is great.
(49:53):
I'm so happy.
We're gonna put all your social contacts andstuff in the show notes.
But if somebody wanted to get a hold of you,what's the best way for them to do that?
If they wanna get a hold of me, you can I guessyou can go to our website?
It's, taylorelectricc0.com.
There's contact information there.
Info at Taylor, that'll put you actuallytowards my executive assistant.
So she'll definitely you contact me directly.
(50:15):
Will knows this.
He's been stalking me for some time.
And at first, I was like, you just you need tomeet Charlotte.
Why are you talking to me?
I'm not you're not gonna get anywhere trying toschedule me like that.
But, yeah, if you go to our website, you canlearn more about our staff.
You can learn more about what we're doing, andyou can, you can reach out if you need anything
or if you wanna get involved in our nonprofit.
Yeah.
No.
Absolutely.
(50:36):
And is there anything else you'd like to tellthe people before we say goodbye?
No.
I just, you know, I think we enjoy being inthis industry.
We've, you know, we've we've worked hard toserve it as hard as we can, and it benefits us
as well.
And, you know, we make new friends and meet newpeople along the way.
So this was awesome.
I really appreciate you guys having me on.
Well, we appreciate you, Kendra.
(50:56):
You've been awesome.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
This has been a ton of fun listeners.
I know that you had a good time too.
And until next time, adios.
Adios.
Thanks for listening to Building Scale.
To help us reach even more people, please sharethis episode with a friend, colleague, or on
social media.
Remember, the 3 pillars of scaling a businessare people, process, and technology.
(51:18):
And our mission is to help the AEC industryprotect itself by making technology easy.
So if you think your company's technologypillar could use some improvement, book a call
with us to see how we can help maximize your ITcybersecurity strategy.
Just go to building scale dot net slash help.
(51:41):
And until next time,
keep building scale.
Scale.
I'm thinking it's in the next 100 years.
(00:01):
So
Yeah.
There we go.
Have you ever wondered how successfularchitecture, engineering, and construction
companies scale their business?
Or have you ever wanted guidance on how to getmore growth, wealth, and freedom from your AEC
company?
Well, then you are in luck.
Hi.
I'm Will Foratt.
(00:22):
And I'm Justin Nagel, and we're your podcasthosts.
We interview successful AEC business leaders tolearn how they use people, process, and
technology to scale their businesses.
So sit back and get ready to learn from theindustry's best.
This is
Building scale.
Hey, listeners.
(00:43):
It's Will here.
Our mission
is to help the AC industry protect itself bymaking technology easy.
If you've ever listened to our show, then youknow that the 3 pillars of scaling a business
are people, process, and technology.
So if you suspect technology is your weak link,then book a call with us to see where we can
help maximize your company's IP cybersecuritystrategy.
(01:05):
Just go to building scale dot net slash health.
Today's guest is Kendra Dinkins, president andCEO of Taylor Electric Company, a flat owned,
female owned, and family operated businessserving the Chicagoland area since 1922.
She's the 4th generation of her family to leadthe company, which specializes in residential,
(01:27):
commercial, industrial, and maintenanceelectrical work.
Some notable projects that they've worked on iselectrical upgrades at the Willis Tower or for
Chicagoans, also known as the Sears Tower.
Ongoing work at O'Hare Airport, includingterminal 5 expansion, maintenance, soldier
field, and guaranteed rate.
As a SOX man, I I still call Comiskey since1990, and then, projects for organizations like
(01:48):
Chicago Public Schools, University of Chicago,Loyola Medical.
And one that's really cool is you guys lit thecity of Chicago Christmas tree this year,
which, I I don't know.
That just it seems like that's probably, like,not the most, you know, biggest project, but it
just seems fun to me, so I love that.
Some of, Kendra's professional achievements isshe serves the executive committee of the
Electrical Contractors Association of the Cityof Chicago.
(02:11):
She's past president of the Federation of WomenContractors, founding member and past president
of Black Contractors Owners and Executives alsoknown as FECO, cochair of the March of Dimes
Construction and Transportation Awards, exofficio member of Taylor Electric Cares, a
nonprofit promoting opportunities for women andminorities in electrical industry.
She was inducted into the Electric Associationof Chicago Hall of Fame in 22 and named one of,
(02:37):
Crane Chicago's Business Notable Women inConstruction and Design in 21, to name a few of
the amazing things she's done.
And with all that said, Kendra, welcome to theshow.
Thanks.
Thanks for having me.
Yeah.
I when I was going through the bio, I was like,what do I cut?
And I'm like, I can't cut anything.
This is all amazing.
And I had so much commentary.
You know?
I one, we love Chicago because inherently, aspot located in Chicago, headquartered there.
(03:02):
And me living there most of my life, it wasjust like, oh my god.
Like, I know all of these things, and it's sofun.
So, it's just really exciting.
So and, over a 100 years in business, 4thgeneration, black owned, woman owned, like, you
are doing all the things that are against therules.
It's like you are beating all the odds out,which I love, but tell us more about it.
(03:25):
I I'm obviously gushing about it, but you tellus your story.
How did you get into construction and tell usabout Taylor?
Sure.
So like you said, Taylor Electric, we're a 102years old now.
So it started by my great grandfather in 1922.
As you can imagine back then, it was kindatough to get started in the industry as a black
man, but he actually through thecorrespondence, male correspondence, he learned
(03:49):
the trade on his own.
He begged the school to let him take the test,and they allowed him to do so.
He ended up having to work for contractors forfree for a year just to learn it on his own,
and then Taylor Electric Company was started asa necessity so he can go out, strike out
business for himself and and do for himself.
Could you remind the people real quick?
Because I think people don't necessarilyunderstand what it was a 100 years ago, paint a
(04:14):
little bit of a picture of what he couldn't doas a as a black man.
So one of the things is, you know, like I said,he he took the class via mail correspondence.
Well, back then, the US Postal Service did notdeliver books to black folks.
It was it was clear that, you know, educationis a key, and there are a lot of different
barriers to education and, a lot of governmentsponsored educations barriers to education.
(04:39):
So he actually found a white friend to orderthe books for him, and he took those classes
online, you know, not online, but via via mail.
And then then he showed up to the school andbegged and begged, you know, to let them take
the test.
So, yeah, it it's, he actually here's anotherfunny well, not funny story.
One of his nicknames was actually shotgun Sambecause he used to have to sleep on his job
(05:03):
sites with a shotgun or else, you know, thenext morning, all the pipe and wire would be
pulled out.
When he
started yeah.
When he started pulling, when he first startedpulling permits at Taylor Electric Company with
the city of Chicago, they'd figure out where hewas with those permits and come to his job
sites.
Holy cow.
Yeah.
Is the world that's I mean, does it stillhappen today?
(05:26):
Yes.
But it's way more rare.
Exactly.
It's a it's a it's a little bit different thesedays.
You know, you just have the implicit bias thatI think we're all trying to fight off.
But, you know, still some barriers toeducation, still a lot of things going on.
We at Taylor and and some of the otherorganizations on that, we're trying to fight
that at every every corner.
So
It's like I said it before, like, against allodds.
(05:49):
Resilience is not enough of a word to describeTaylor.
That's that's certainly.
So cheers to shotgun, Sam.
Certainly.
So, you know, you didn't auto magically justget into Taylor.
No.
Tell us and and you're 4th generation.
Right?
So there's 3 generations in front of you beforeeven you got to be at the helm.
(06:10):
And that's such a rarity.
Like, a 100 year old company is that is rareerror on its own.
4th generation, that is super rare error.
After 2nd generation, a lot of times thatfizzles out.
So 4th generation, holy cow.
Exactly.
And then black and women owned, like, you arein the point 001% or something like that of
(06:34):
companies, like, to have survived.
Something like that.
Like, when I first took over, somebody sat medown.
I was like, you know, only 6% of family ownedbusinesses make it to the 4th generation.
And I was like, thanks.
So yeah.
So I came out of it.
I I came in a very roundabout way.
So my dad actually started at Taylor as anapprentice, worked his way all the way up to
(06:57):
chief of operations.
And, you know, he was old school.
In his head, he knew what was happening in thefield with women in the industry.
And, you know, it was also back when everybodywas promoting college over trade school.
So, you know, he was like, I'm not busting mybutt out here in the field just so I can have
my daughters, you know, do the same after me.
So we were forbidden to go to trade school.
We had to go to college.
We you know, he made us go.
(07:19):
And so my degree is in biology.
20 years ago, I was teaching and working in anall girls boarding school out in North Carolina
and came back home temporarily, startedinterviewing at other schools.
And my dad was like, oh, no.
We need help in the accounting office.
And
that was 2,007.
When he needed some help.
Exactly.
Exactly.
(07:40):
But, yes, that was 2007.
And, so I've been with the company ever since.
I think, about 2013, it was came apparent thatwe were going to start transitioning over.
So I I had started taking classes inconstruction management and finance and things
of that nature.
And in 2015, we finished the buyout agreement,and I took over the the day to day operations.
(08:01):
So you did a lot of schooling.
What drew you towards I mean, is it just beingaround it that drew you towards the industry,
or was your, you know, arm actually twistedinto it?
It was really twisted into it.
Like, you know, I was interviewing at otherschools, but I just wasn't sure what I wanted
to do.
So I did jump on the opportunity to stay inChicago another year or 2 until I figured it
(08:22):
out.
Then what happened was, you know, that 2,008recession hit, which for most contractors, if
you had a decent backlog, that crunch didn'tstart to hit you to, like, 2010, 2011.
And so by then, I've been there a couple ofyears.
We had to start downsizing and doing differentthings in different ways to survive.
I just started picking up more stuff just as,like, you know, this is our family's company.
(08:44):
It's what you gotta do.
So, you know, I went from just being thebookkeeper to suddenly being like a junior
project manager.
And then that next thing you know, I'm goinghead to head with GCs on behalf of the project
managers.
And so we just started picking up more andmore, and it it just made sense when 2013 came
around and, our cousin wanted to she wanted toretire that, you know, me and my sister were
(09:05):
next in line.
Family obviously being important to any familyorganization, but what does what does family
mean to Taylor?
Like, what is what part of the culture doesthat that create for for the organization?
I think it I think it creates a great culturefor the organization.
Like I said, like, this this company wasstarted out of necessity and take so that Sam
could take care of his family.
And so that's sort of the philosophy that wekeep going here.
(09:28):
I've got my Taylor Jenkins family that I haveto take care of, But I also have about 80 other
families depending on us to, you know, to dosome good work and make sure that they
consistently have work lined up as well.
So I think we work really hard as a family.
We make sure that we're looking out for ouremployees and their well-being.
Our philosophy, as long as we're taking care ofour employees, they're taking care of our
(09:49):
customers.
So, when you first when Taylor first started,right, and even when we're talking about, you
know, taking it from really previousgeneration.
Has the company how has the company changed interms of what work what type of work you do,
who you do work for?
(10:09):
And, ultimately, you took the helm, you tookthe you took the helm.
So you were able to actually change, changesome some things.
Right?
Once you're at the helm, you're responsible.
You're accountable.
You're responsible.
That is on you.
Whether you win, you fail, that's on you.
Right?
Yep.
So so what changes have you made and why?
So I think one of the biggest changes I madewas sort of making sure we diversified
(10:33):
ourselves.
When I first came in, we were just followingwhere the money was.
And so about 80% of our market share of ourmarket share was, multiunit residential, which
of course was not fun after the housing crash.
So, you know, we we do commercial work andother things like that, but I think we've
gotten so bogged down into multiunitresidential that, you know, we hadn't didn't
(10:54):
have enough diversity to really, We survived,but it was, you know, sort of kinda scraping
by.
So, you know, we've expanded into thecommercial market and the health care market,
institutional, educational.
We've tried it.
We actually picked up one more.
We we've been doing a guaranteed rate fieldnow.
Well, SOX Park.
Uh-huh.
And,
Soldier Field, we've been doing those for about20 some, almost 30 years, but we picked up, at
(11:18):
Navy Pier and a few other smaller customers aswell in our service and maintenance department.
So why those markets?
Right?
Why health care?
Why, I guess what is it?
Data centers would be the institutional side?
Yeah.
Data centers.
Well, institutional side would be more like thecolleges, and things of that.
So we kinda stay away from data centers justbecause we're a little bit small, and those are
(11:41):
very big and fast paced.
But data centers and health care, and our serveservice and maintenance, those are just sort of
steadying markets.
Health care, you know, you're always gonna havesomebody sick, so they're always gonna be, you
know, building something or reapprovingsomething or even the maintenance in their
buildings.
Data centers, there's more, you know, there'sextremely more and more data, so there's gonna
(12:01):
be work there.
And then service and maintenance.
A lot of people, you know, you go after the newconstruction of the job, but actually, you look
at the lifespan of a building, 80% of thebudget is on maintaining that building.
So, you know, getting that maintenance afterthe building is built is, you know, it's like
an annuity.
It's always our monthly.
You you got a little bit coming in becauseyou're taking, you know, you're you've got at
(12:23):
least a couple electricians assigned to itlooking after it.
Yeah.
That's that, recurring revenue model, whichcertainly software loves, you know, software
companies.
I mean, I think one of our one of our guestslately had said, like, yeah.
It used to be you bought a Microsoft licenseand then you were good for, like, 15 years,
which, you know, we don't necessarily recommendthat at Spot, but that was what was happening.
(12:44):
And now it's like, oh, no.
You're paying every month forever.
Like, that's just how it works.
So cut, construction getting more into thatmaintenance side of saying like, hey.
Like, you just need stuff done all the time,helps the business, cash flow aspects, and
things like that.
So, and you'd mentioned, size and, like, youknow, not being the biggest electro contractor
(13:04):
to do institutional work is I think is is whatyou're saying.
That means, obviously, you have to partner,right, to do bigger stuff.
What what does partnering look like, Taylor?
So for us, yeah, we, you know, we're members ofa lot of different organizations, so we come in
contact with a lot of different competitors,some
of the larger electrical contractors as well.
So some
of the larger projects that definitely need MBEdollars, we partner up with larger electricals
(13:28):
on.
Just like in the health care industry, we, youknow, we consider ourselves pretty new in that.
And so it doesn't make sense for us to go outfirst job, and we're gonna bid it and do it on
our own.
No.
Let's find a partner that actually does this ona regular basis.
Let's kinda learn how they do it and then workon our scale.
So we're we're partnered with some folks onthese huge hospitals, but then on our own now,
(13:49):
we're starting to do little small clinics andthings like that on our own as we work to build
ourselves to scale up to be able to do a largersort of project like that.
So that's where partnering with largerelectricals are really helpful.
Remind me, but isn't it true you have to beunder a certain size for to essentially get the
(14:09):
MBE or WBE status?
Is that correct?
Yeah.
There are there are limits to your yourpersonal net worth as an owner of the company,
and there's also limits to the amount ofrevenue that you can have in, you know, in a
certain amount of years.
And it varies from state to state, city tocity.
Chicago follows the SBA, Small BusinessAssociation, parameters.
(14:31):
And so for us, it's not necessarily been about,you know, staying under that radar.
We've just been growing basically, you know,with the rate of inflation.
But, you know, with our rate of growth, we donecessarily, you know, have to be cognizant
that, you know, one day we're gonna get kickedout of this program, and we have to you know,
another reason why we started, you know,diversifying is we're gonna have to, you know,
(14:53):
build ourselves a backlog that's not dependenton public work.
And so health care and universities and thingslike that, those are, you know, institutions
that we do well in and hopefully will help usin that future.
So what I'm hearing is you're making chessmoves.
How far into the future are you thinking?
I'm thinking into the next 100 years.
(15:13):
So Yeah.
There we go.
You gotta you gotta be really long term.
I think one thing I learned, like, when we'reespecially when we were, you know, geared, it
might be a, you know, a 2 to 5 year plan, butwe're thinking about how it's gonna affect I'm
thinking about how it's gonna affect the nextgeneration, hopefully, when we make it to the
5th 6th generation.
That's crazy to think about.
(15:34):
Like, that to, you know, like, it's already,like you know?
Because, you know, I I assume you've got a lotof time still left at Taylor, certainly.
Yeah.
But you're like, well, the 5th 6th generation,where where are they gonna go?
What are we gonna make sure that we're settingthem up for success, which is awesome.
For those those programs, the MB, MBE and WBE,what what are the the caps?
(15:55):
What is the restrictions that that you do have,and how can we help you increase those
restrictions or those caps?
Sure.
So I believe SBA for, like, a subcontractorlike myself is 19,000,000.
And then, the city of Chicago takes that19,000,000 and adds, I think, a 1.5 per, like,
(16:16):
1.5 times that amount just to make up for thefact that the city of Chicago's got
1,000,000,000 of dollars at stake.
And so trying to cap all the MBE contractorsmeans you're not gonna really get as as much
MBE work as you're really wanting to get withinthe city.
So I think it's, like, about about 23,000,000spread over, I think, like, 5 to 7 years.
It's like an average.
Once you get over that hump, then for the cityof Chicago, you start to, like so say you come
(16:44):
graduate out of the program, it's a scaledgraduation.
So the next year, everything that you do, say Ido a $1,000,000 worth of work, only 75% of it
will count as a MBE.
So 750,000 of it will be considered MBEdollars, and then it goes down to 50% and 25%,
and that's to kinda help with graduationbecause a lot of folks I think the latest stat
(17:06):
on graduation is once you graduate out of theMBE or DBE program, you tend to lose about a
take about a 60% revenue hit, which, you know,black wire in between, a lot of people can't
take that.
So the city is trying to soften that blow in acertain way.
I feel like, you know, what we've been goingafter is increasing the limits, at least for
them MEP contractors, because they are so much,you know, a part of the job and have so much
(17:32):
involved in it.
Like a general most of your general, verticalstructures, about 10 to 12% of that budget is
the electrical.
And that means boots on the ground, that's awhole lot of labor.
And, you know, general contractors, I thinkthey have a limit of about 50,000,000.
And a lot of them, sometimes it depends ifthey're general contractor or Centimeters
whether or not they even have skin in the game.
(17:53):
And so, you know, you've got sub contractorsbasically funding these projects via our labor
and, you know, buying of the materials, andthen we're capped at what we can do.
Some years, I might need to scale up, you know,just to make up for, like, the COVID losses
that we had.
You know?
Like, maybe we gotta go a couple of years andscale up our revenue just to make up for that
loss, and we can't quite do that be in a safeand effective way.
(18:17):
So raising the caps, I think, more at least tomatch inflation.
SBA doesn't raise them, like, at least, like,sometimes every 5 years, whether it is the
price of labor goes up every year.
The price of copper goes up every second.
You know?
So, you know, it just it needs to be morerealistic in that way.
So let's talk a little bit about, I guess,partnering.
(18:37):
Right?
Because you can't do everything.
And a lot of I remember in the pre, kind of inthe pre interview, you talked a little bit
about what it was like to partner way back whenand even now and learning lessons.
Right?
How do you build trust?
How do you find that?
And then sometimes even through therelationships, things go well and things go
(19:00):
sideways.
How does trust kind of compare to that?
And do you have any stories around, you know,good and bad examples?
Let's not name any names, but let's you know,good and bad examples of, like, what can happen
in a trusting and not so trusting relationship.
Yeah.
Precisely.
I think I think what's the most important isthat when you're going into and lots a lot of
(19:23):
times, like, the pre meetings and the BINmeetings and things like that, when you're
talking with the customer or you're evenpartnering with another electrical, that
they're treating you like a true partner.
Like, they believe you can do this work, notyou're not just sort of there to check off that
MBE box and, you know, you're willing to sortof work together.
And they're not just like, well, give us thebid.
We'll tell you whether you're high or low orwhether you're not you got the job.
(19:43):
Like, they're actually working with you on.
You've got questions.
They've got answers.
They view you and respect you as actualelectrical contractor, you know, not a MBE
contractor.
It's really important because now, of course,when things happen in the field, you tend to be
the lowest on the totem pole.
So, you know, you just wanna try to find apartner that's not gonna throw you under the
bus in the meantime.
(20:04):
And also someone who kinda shares yourphilosophy.
Like, we had we were actually the prime on aproject.
It was a big box store.
We were working with a GC, and they were justthey had the philosophy that we're the GC.
Everything's right.
You're wrong.
This is how I want it done, you know, and notnecessarily wanna listen or pay attention, to
the point where the job just got slowed downridiculously for a lot of different reasons.
(20:27):
Some of it wasn't even their fault.
And the the box store, they have their own theyhave their own construction management crew, so
they came in town to come.
They wanted to come check the site, and the GCwas like, oh, no.
We need to put some generators out there.
We need to, like, basically temporary light theplace and make it look like it was way more
done than what it was.
And we were just like, you know, why don't youjust tell your customer what's happening?
(20:49):
Or why didn't you just, months ago, starttelling your customers some of the issues that
were happening that got us to this point?
But instead of that, they just, you know, like,okay.
Well, no.
Light it.
Get it done.
And then if it's not right, then I guess you'rethe problem.
You're the one who's holding everything up.
And so, again, the, the construction managercame on-site.
Of course, he, you know, he's been around theblock a few times.
(21:09):
He can see when somebody trying to pull thewool over his eyes, and but we had a really
good foreman out there who really knew herstuff.
And she walked him through the site and said,this is what's done.
This is what's not done.
This is why things are happening.
You know?
And really kinda gave them sort of an eyeopening experience, which, you know, we ended
up finishing the job.
It was on time.
I don't think we made any money off of it.
But, again, the GC, they got their stuff in ontime.
(21:32):
We got our stuff in on time.
And, you know, I think we still bid to them,and we still we're we're probably a little bit
more cautious when we go into jobs with them,but they also know us to be someone who's gonna
stick to our word and finish a job no matterwhat.
So the the the main kind of partnerships we'dlike to have are ones where, you know, we're
involved in day 1.
We're helpful in the design and build process.
(21:55):
You know, we're in their shop.
They're in our shop.
You know, we walk sites together.
We come up with plans together.
We solve problems together.
We take hits together.
Those are the kind of relationships you wannahave.
Do you find that GCs or CMs, try to dictatemore?
Right?
You know, like, obviously, you're coming inbecause you are the expert at that trade.
(22:15):
Right?
Like, it's just like, you wouldn't hire acompany.
We wouldn't hire a company to do our marketingand then try to tell them how to do marketing.
Right?
Like, that doesn't why would we do that?
Like, that seems silly.
Obviously, you can have questions and, like,hey.
This is guidance and different things, but,like, you're the experts.
You I I've hired you to tell me how we shoulddo this thing.
(22:37):
So do you do you is that something that you'vejust seen in the in the industry where it's
like when you're a a specialty trader or asubcontractor, like, you just find that, like,
you there's a level of disrespect effectivelyof, like, hey.
Like, we're the experts.
Like, that's just true.
That's why we're here.
Yeah.
I do.
I I see we often kinda run into that from timeto time, and some of it I think is, like I
(22:59):
said, that implicit bias that comes in,especially if you're coming in as a MBE or a
woman owned contractor.
They a lot of times, they make that assumptionthat you don't know what you're doing.
And, you know, like I tell my staff all thetime, it's it's about being consistent in the
work product that you do and the communicationthat you have.
I tell them all the time, be so good at yourjob because a lot of this is you know, this
(23:22):
industry seems large, but it's really a lot ofpeople know each other and a lot of folks talk.
And so I tell them, be so good at your job thatif somebody, you know, on the street says
something bad about Taylor Electric, no one'sgonna believe them.
No one's gonna believe them.
They're gonna like, well, I don't no.
They finished this work.
They did this job, and they were they were goodwith me.
I don't understand what you're talking aboutsort of thing.
So I think consistency is key, to sort of, youknow, endure those kind of issues.
(23:46):
I think, you know, with a lot of the DEI andthing and and different things and, inclusive
initiatives, I think, you know, as the more ofthose gets pushed, I think the more folks are
exposed to different types of contractors,different types of people, and and understand
that we all, you know, are in this togetherand, you know, interested in getting the work
done and capable of doing the work.
(24:08):
How do you fight that stigmatism?
Right?
Like, it's just it's essentially what it is.
Right?
It's just like we are womanhood, we areminority.
Like, that is just a fact, but that doesn'tchange the fact that we're also a 4th
generation 100 year old company that, like,knows what we're doing.
Like, how how do you fight that stigmatism?
So it's not I I tell people it's not my job totell you how much I'm worth.
(24:31):
Like, I, you know, I can sit here and fight andfight and fight all day.
As long as I am making sure that TaylorElectric is better than they were yesterday,
then that's what we need to do.
Like, we're not we're not gonna get all thejobs.
You know?
Usually, when we get our foot in the door, thenit becomes a long term relationship, and that's
because of that consistency.
But, if I spend all my time fighting, fighting,fighting, we would be nowhere.
(24:55):
I think just trying to be the best that you canbe is is gonna be your best bet, and that
helps.
You know, that does eventually you know, thathelps with other contractors that are coming
through the door after me that they see, okay.
Well, this contract, they, oh, they actuallyknow what they're doing and they can get it
done.
You know, that's our focus is just us rightnow.
I love that.
At Spot, one of our core values is continuousimprovement, and that's that's it.
(25:19):
Right?
If every day you just get a little bit betteras a company and as a as a human being.
Right?
Like, you always end up in a better place atthe end, and you you have less time spent
trying to prove the fact that you're valued.
I I love that the mindset that you have.
So, you know, even as a 100 year old company,you're continuing to learn.
(25:41):
Talk to us a little bit about so partnershipsis one aspect, but what about customers?
You'd said before, you said yes to almosteverything.
And now that's not necessarily the case.
Why is that?
Yeah.
I think when I first came in, it was a hardlearned lesson for me.
When I first came in, we were, you know, we'rea bit cash strapped.
(26:01):
We definitely need to boost our revenue, so itwas just sort of yes to everything.
We'll take this.
We'll take this.
It'll be you know, it might be a little bittight margin, but we can get it done and, you
know, learn the very hard way that that's justnot always the way to go.
So, you know, we're definitely more mindful,purposeful.
When when we take a look at jobs, we take alook at the customer.
We might take a look at if we've done work withthem.
You know, what's their pay history?
(26:22):
Can we afford to you know, even if they're likea 60 day payout contractor or a 90 day payout
contractor, can we afford to do that?
Does that fit within our cash flow?
Is it work that we can really do and do wellwith margins?
And, you know, sometimes we have to say no tofolks.
Sometimes it's because, you know, we just feellike the timing or the margins won't work for
(26:42):
us, but sometimes we gotta be realistic thatwe're not gonna give them the product that they
want.
And we'll tell them that upfront, like, youknow, this might we might not be the best fit
for you.
Someone who's in a lot of advocacyorganizations, I could probably point you in a
direction of somebody who could be a fit foryou.
And, you know, that has earned us some respectrespect amongst the industry and actually has
actually weren't earned us more work sometimes.
(27:04):
How does has so just to be clear, just for ourlisteners, has saying no hurt any
relationships?
No.
I've never I've never had a customer that Isaid no to completely walk away from us.
A lot of times, if we're saying no, we'retelling you why.
Like, oh, you know, it might just be, hey.
You know what?
The timing is not right.
I got too much on my plate right now.
(27:25):
This won't get the attention it deserves.
Or it might be, hey.
This is too big, too fast.
I would like to bid it, but I would like tobring in a partner.
Are you okay with that?
Or, you know, it's like, hey.
No.
We're not the specialty that you need.
You know?
Here's a contractor that is a specialty.
And that way they know they can trust us.
Most of the time, you know, a bid is a bid.
You got the numbers there.
(27:45):
But a lot of the times, the customer, theywanna know who they can trust for the next 2
years to get this job done.
So if you're coming at it from a position oftrust, if you're coming at it in a way that's
honest and, you know, sometimes a lot of timeswe've said no, and they're like, okay.
Well, no.
We're willing to work with you on this.
We know you don't have a full on BIMdepartment, but we'll, you know, we'll lend you
our guys or we would point you in the rightdirection of a company that could get it done.
(28:08):
We still want you on this project sort ofthing.
Because, I mean, if at the end of the day, if,you know, they've gotta risk, you know,
$5,000,000 on the job with with a contractorthey trust and know that's gonna give them the
honest truth or risk $5,000,000 on a job withsomeone who's just got the low bid and you're
not you know, you you know, they're justpromising you the world without, you know,
(28:29):
really giving you any kind of details oranything like that, you might go with the
custom you know, with the contractor that youtrust.
That's, another, similarity in our businesses.
That core one of the another core value of oursis being Canon.
So, like, we we that's why we enjoy you somuch.
That's it's pretty straightforward.
Will has met you multiple times, but the firsttime I I we spoke, literally just earlier this
(28:52):
week, I was like, oh my god.
Kendra's amazing.
Like, she's just she's just great.
So it makes sense.
When you find people that are just similar inwhat they value and, like, what is important to
them, it means a lot.
And, obviously, your partners don't see that.
Right?
You can't do everything, so saying no also justleads to more respect in in a deeper
relationship, but it's what it sounds like.
(29:13):
I love the candor as well as the in additionto, like, the why.
Right?
I think I think answering the why, not justbeing short with someone, whether even if that
is you are being candid, but the why to helpset sort of that expectation, right, and
transparency in your own company.
I think it's looking out for the in a way, it'slooking out for the customer.
(29:37):
Right?
Or what could potentially be the customer, butthey're just not gonna be your customer this
time around.
Right.
And the industry is just not as big as peoplepeople think.
Everyone knows everyone.
Exactly.
So, I wanna take it internally for a second.
Internal to your company.
Because there is and especially Adrian'sbecause it's family.
(30:00):
There's other family members.
Right?
Which means that their ownership isn't just100% you.
It's really multiple family members.
So I've heard good things and bad things inpartnerships, but family makes it makes a
different dynamic.
K?
I imagine it's hard.
However, I wanna hear it from you.
(30:21):
How do decisions like, I I would think bigdecisions, but how do decisions get made in the
business?
So we have so we're we're spread against 3rd4th generation ownership with the company right
now.
So it's 3 owners, me, my sister, and my cousin.
And so, you know, it boils down to a lot oftrust and trying to be as open as possible.
(30:44):
It's definitely not easy all the time.
We have had a couple of difficult thanksgivingswhere we kinda show up and throw food on the
table, say your prayers, and eat and alright.
Bye.
So you know?
But I think at the end of the day, you know,we've we've we've had to have the heart to
heart discussions that at the end of the day,we all want the same thing.
We wanna be able to, you know, be successful,pass this on to the next generation.
(31:06):
So, you know, as long as a lot of the times,ultimately, I'm the person making the final
decision, but I'm also letting the family knowexactly what's going on step by step.
We have family meetings.
We have our board of directors, which is allfamily.
And so they're definitely given a lot of inputeven though there's only 3 owners.
You know?
Yes.
The family is about 6 or 7 people who are, youknow you know, bonded with the company in some
(31:29):
way or the other that, you know, that are veryhelpful.
So, obviously, mentality be you're the finaldecision maker, mentality around certain
decisions.
So you're look you're you're the 100 yearoutlook decision maker.
Right?
You're looking really long term.
(31:51):
Is there so I wanna put some context to this,just because of my own personal experiences.
Is it hard to keep family members accountablefor their actions?
And in addition to that, how do you keepaccountability in that type of a structure?
I'd say it's really difficult to hold familymembers accountable because you don't wanna I
(32:15):
mean, you love them.
And then at the end of the day, you want what'sbest for them.
But you also need to understand you gotta lovethe company and and want what's best for the
company.
I think sometimes a lot of it is really hard tokeep me accountable.
Like, who's holding me accountable here?
Sometimes with some of the decisions I make, Ithink I I struggle with that sometimes.
That comes from the fam.
(32:35):
For us, it comes from, like, the familyconversations where we have to have a sit down
like, hey.
This is what's working and this is what isn'tworking.
You know?
We try to be as agile as possible.
Like, you know, you know, this might not be afit for you, but do you wanna help out here?
Or, you know, we're just trying to when we'relooking to bring on family members, like, what
are their strengths and weaknesses and kind ofput them in that guide them in that direction.
(32:58):
But, you know, we've had to, you know, we'vehad to come down hard.
We've had to fire family members, and and Ithink, you know, it might put some relationship
on the strain of the family, but I think alsothe staff need to know and understand that
there's accountability there, even at thehigher level.
You know, if they see a family member andthey're, you know, like, oh my gosh, Well,
their family member, they can't do x, y, and z,and they see that they're being held
(33:20):
accountable as well.
They, you know, understand that at the end ofthe day, everybody, you know, is on the same
page, and they've got the opportunity to growand move up in the company and not necessarily
think that there's some sort of level that theycan't attain because it's gonna be all family
members up there or something like that.
That's, the other 80 families that you'reyou're, you know, putting putting their
(33:44):
interest there too.
Right?
Like, if one family member, you know, Taylorfamily member is, for whatever reason, isn't
doing what they should be doing in in whatevercapacity, those other 80 families are looking
to you to to right the ship.
So that's that's gonna be a very difficultposition, especially when you are gonna have
Thanksgiving, with them, and and that creates aweird dynamic.
(34:05):
Yeah.
That I can only imagine how difficult that canbe.
Yeah.
As long as the money's flowing okay, then thefamily dynamics seem to be going well.
Got it.
I think we've learned a lot over the years.
We've we've survived a couple of recessions andthe the great depression, so we'll just keep
going.
Yeah.
Blow my mind right now.
Didn't even put that together.
(34:25):
Oh, yeah.
Not just 2,008, not just COVID.
Oh, yeah.
The great depression, by the way.
That's one that we we got in the the feather in
the cap.
No big deal.
You've survived a lot of hardships, you as inthe company, and you personally, with companies
since you've survived, you know, 2008, 2009.
How do you, do you see it coming?
(34:46):
Or or is it more you have to react and thenmake quick decisions?
And what type of decisions, hard or not, do youhave to make when that when, let's say, those
recessions happen or coming, etcetera?
Talk us through that.
Sometimes you can't see it coming.
You gotta pay attention to, you know, payattention to sort of the politics that's going
(35:07):
around, some of the economic, you know,situation that's going around.
You gotta really pay attention to currentevents.
And that usually sometimes gives you an idea ofwhat's happening around you.
So, you know, I think we we've been that lastrecession we had with that minor I think it was
sort of a minor recession.
But I think we were sort of prepared for it.
A lot of times construction can be cyclicalwhere, you know, we've got a there's a lot of
(35:31):
work going on in the city, and then all of asudden, this sort of shrink.
Like, right now, you don't see a whole lot ofcranes up.
So things have been kinda slow, but, you know,2025 and 2026 is actually looking quite better.
I think understanding how those trends go.
So a lot of times in a recession, governmentslike to spin themselves out of a recession,
which is great.
That means there's a lot more public work goingbecause they wanna try to prop up the
(35:55):
construction industry in that way.
So understanding what happens during arecession is also very important.
But then you also you know, every now and then,you're gonna get a gut punch that you don't see
coming, like COVID.
For us, COVID beat the crap out of us.
Excuse my language.
But, that was that was really tough.
We had just you know, we we were you know,climbed ourselves out of, you know, what was
(36:17):
happening with that last recession just tokinda get get hit.
It was a smaller company and especiallysometimes MBEDBE contractors.
A lot of times, we can be sort of the canariesin the in the coal mine.
They start struggling, then you know the restof the industry is probably gonna start
struggling, but you gotta pay attention to it.
A lot of people just said, oh, well, they'resmaller or they don't, you know, know what
(36:37):
they're doing, and that's why they'restruggling.
No.
No.
That's that's the signal that, you know, hardtimes are coming for all of us.
They're just, you know, hitting them first sortof thing.
So at this really just paying attention.
Sometimes you're gonna be prepared.
A lot of sometimes you're not, but I thinkcommunicating is is is is also just really,
really important.
I think we really had to we had to cometogether and really communicate, really kinda
(37:01):
change some of the ways that we did.
We're a little old school, right before COVID,and we're still are.
We're working our way through that.
So I think that kinda exasperated the issue forus, but, you know, you you learn as you go.
If you're not learning anything, you know, thatnext recession hits and you're still in the
same spot, then, you know, you probably deservewhat you get.
(37:23):
So I I don't I don't wanna I wanna make surethat I'm not misinterpreting or reading between
the lines here.
Do you keep so during, let's say, the recessionor the COVID, do you keep all your people or do
you have to furlough layoff people?
What happens during those really rough times?
Right.
And let's be honest here for a second.
It's not that they're doing a bad job.
(37:45):
Literally, and the decision making process orthe thinking behind it is if I don't have if
the company doesn't survive, then the rest ofthe people, no matter who the decision is with,
then doesn't survive either.
Right?
So you're kinda making are you making decisionsfor sort of the greater good of the mass amount
(38:06):
of people that you're responsible for?
Yeah.
Unfortunately, you do have to make those sortof decisions to try and avoid to have, I guess,
what you say, like, massive layoffs or anythinglike that is we keep a core group.
So we fluctuate anywhere between about 40 guysto a100.
We know that about 60, 65 keeps us going, atthe very base.
(38:29):
So we try to keep that that core group workingat all times if we can, so that when hard times
do hit, you know, we can at least try to keepthose folks going or you know those core people
who have been with us.
We've got electricians even though, you know,they're union electricians and they belong to
IBEW local 134 or local 9.
You know, they've been with us for at least adecade or 2 now.
(38:52):
They know they know how we operate.
And so if we come to them and say, hey.
You know, times are hard.
We might need you to sit for a little while or,you know, it might be a little bit time in
between jobs.
They understand what's going on.
They're willing to kind of tough it out withus.
You know?
Because a lot of times, you know, as a, youknow, as a union electrician, you can always
pick up work some places, but at times, youknow, things might get a little bit slow.
(39:16):
And so you wanna stick with a contractor thatyou trust.
And so when those slow times hit and, you know,they're there with us, you know, we we're
pretty honest with them about what's coming upwith the horizon, what what's gonna be
happening.
And, you know, if you ride with us, we'll takecare of us in Fairview.
If not, then, you know, that's, you know,that's your decision as well.
(39:37):
It's it's tough to kind of it's tough because,you know, you wanna take care of them, but you
also can't take things personally.
At the end of the day, everybody here has gottheir own family, their own partner, their own
kids, their own selves to take care of.
So they've gotta make these decisions that arebest for them.
So we try to make sure we give them theinformation of what's happening with Taylor.
Like, we we share our financials with thecompany.
(39:59):
I have a year once a year meeting where I kindalike, the state of Taylor, where we kinda talk
about we analyze what happened with thosefinancials, what the good and the bad were, and
kinda where we're moving from there.
When things got really, really bad one timeafter COVID, I sat them down and said, hey.
You're gonna be the 1st to know if I gotta pullthe plug on this.
If if things are getting this bad to where I'mthinking, like, we're gonna have to file
(40:23):
bankruptcy or something like that, you'll bethe first to know.
You'll know before the bank.
You'll know before anybody else, you know,because we want you guys to, you know, have a
safe passage to get through where you need toget through and, not start missing paychecks
because we can't make it or something likethat.
So I think it's I think the tough part is beinghonest with ourselves as a company and and and
being honest with them, and that might meankeeping them along or they might, you know,
(40:46):
wanna skedaddle.
So powerful.
That's a really powerful message, especially ina hard time like COVID where you just you are
unsure in the moment of, like, what is gonnahappen with with the organization.
So Yeah.
And we ended up we ended up recovering so thatour core group stayed with us.
That was thank god.
(41:07):
So this brings up a different piece, which isloyalty.
Right?
I I think loyalty gets put to the test duringthe tough times.
It's not when times are good.
When times are good, everyone's winning.
It's easy.
It's easy.
It's easy when things are great to stay loyal.
You know, we're rowing the boat, and if oneperson stops rowing, the boat still keeps
(41:27):
moving forward.
Great.
We're all winning.
Right?
Now now we've now we've got the Titanic, youknow, or a potential Titanic situation.
Right?
In trying to save the ship, that's when youreally know.
So do you only how do you know, or do you onlyknow in crisis, like, when who the real, you
(41:50):
know, the the really loyal people are?
And then how do you pay them back?
Well, we we definitely try to make sure youknow, I think our overall philosophy is sort of
taking care of our customers means kind ofknowing what they're I mean, taking care of our
employees means kinda knowing what they need inthe meantime in between time.
(42:11):
So, you know, I already know that, you know, acertain person, she's you know, they she or
he's probably got some issues, maybe issuesgoing on at home where they might need to work
from home 1 or 2 days out of the week, or, youknow, we might need to work out a different
plan for their schedule.
Or, you know, sometimes we offer small loansfor our employees when there's something
happening and they need to jump over a gap orsomething like that.
(42:33):
So you kinda get to know them well, what theirneeds are.
And so when times are hard, you know what youcan expect from them, and what not to expect
from them.
And also not take things personally.
Again, they've got their families to worryabout.
So, you know, loyalty to the company is onething, but they gotta be loyal to their
families as well.
And you can't take that personally if when thatloyalty when that sort of bumps head with what
(42:57):
what it is that you want or need.
What you can, you know, best hope for is to,you know, make sure that you're if you're
keeping the lines of communication open, youcan kinda see what's happening.
Like, we had, you know, we had an employeeleave once, and a lot of people were shocked,
but I kinda saw it coming.
It still wasn't great.
It wasn't, you know, a happy event or anythinglike that, but, you know, I kinda saw it coming
(43:18):
and, you know, we had to recover and recuperateand and and, you know, find somebody else to
put in that spot.
But, again, you've gotta really kinda know whatyou're working with with your core group, and
that's very helpful in terms of kind of, Iguess, assessing loyalty.
You obviously, you have the the family memberspart of the board.
Obviously, you you are the 2 partners, sisterand cousin.
(43:39):
You know, 10 years probably went by faster thanmaybe you thought, being CEO.
A lot of times when we're put in positions, tolead things, one of 2 things poke their head
up.
Either imposter syndrome of, like, saying,like, am I doing this right?
Am I doing this good?
Or the other side of, like, I can be I can dono wrong.
I am you know, the ego gets in the way.
What is what is that balance and challenge looklike in the last 10 years for you?
(44:02):
Obviously, having family probably helps, youknow, anchor you somewhat, but, I'd love to
hear your take.
So I definitely still to this day struggle withimposter syndrome.
I mean, I've got a degree in biology, and I'mover here trying to sell electrical work.
So
I know how to dissect a frog.
What what else do you need to know aboutconduit?
Exactly.
(44:23):
So I think it's really important to know yourstrengths and weaknesses and, again, know your
team.
Like, I depend a lot on our our our team andour family for different things.
And knowing when, you know, knowing when to askfor help, that was a hard learned lesson for me
as well.
But I think knowing I I'll take being, youknow, have a suffering with imposter syndrome
any day of the week rather than me kinda goingin with full confidence thinking I know
(44:46):
everything.
Because you just you'll never know everythingabout anything.
Like, even if I were even if my dad did allowme to go to trade school and I went up and, you
know, came up in the business like everybodyelse, I'd probably still, like, you know, kind
of question and make sure that, you know, thatI'm not just kind of jumping out here on a
limb.
Because again, it's not just me.
I know it's me and my house on the line, butagain, I got 80 other families that I gotta
(45:09):
think about in that process.
I'm a big introvert actually.
I know a lot of people don't think that of me,but I am an introvert.
So when I am off, I am off.
Like, I'm pjs and the dogs in the bed, like,don't bother me, don't call me sort of thing,
because it's exhausting for me to kinda be on,but that's my job.
I know that's what I have to do.
It's part of my job description.
(45:30):
And so, you know, just like everybody else,they may not wanna get up and go to work and
do, you know, x, y, and z, but they get up anddo it.
So I gotta get up and do it as well sort ofthing.
But I think as long as you keeping notnecessarily.
I take myself seriously to a point.
I can laugh at myself.
I make sure people understand around me and ourstaff that they can laugh at themselves and
(45:52):
also take themselves seriously at the sametime.
So I think approaching it from that is sort of,not only a good way of success, but just sort
of, you know, sort of a mental from a mentalhealth standpoint, can be very beneficial for
yourself and others.
Well, you could've fooled us.
So you're a learned extrovert.
That that that that's what you are.
(46:12):
You and I are very similar, in that regard.
Yeah.
It's so funny.
Will is definitely he's the I've known him fora very long time.
Introvert.
No question.
But, like, you get him in, like, a networkingsituation, he's like the belle of the ball.
Like, he will team like, he'll talk toeverybody in the room.
Like, he he's like, k.
Kath like, it's wild to see this evolution asas me and Will have known each other in
(46:36):
personal, life for a long time, that it's likeit's one, it's cool.
It's super cool too, but then it's also like mebeing like, look at like, look what Will's
doing.
Like, that's amazing.
The stretch that he's having is is sopersonally, but also professionally, like, so
cool for me to be able to see.
So I kudos to you for being similar in that wayof, like, that's not easy.
Like, going against the grain in any aspect ishard.
(46:58):
And you said biology where it's like, you know,you were you were one way or you're another way
based upon, like, how, you know, the chemicalsin your brain that get released, you know,
interacting with human beings and all thesedifferent things.
And it's like, that to me is wow, where I siton the other side and I wanna talk to everyone
ever that was ever made.
If I could go back in time in history so Icould talk to more people, that would be like,
that would I'm all in.
(47:19):
Awesome.
Justin, I think it's time for our lastquestion.
Sure.
Let's, let's do it.
Kendra, if you could go back not a 100 years,just 20 years, so just not you don't have to go
back a 100, Just 20 years.
What advice would you give yourself?
What would you tell yourself, that might helpin your journey the last 20 years?
I think the biggest thing I've had to learn thehard way on so many occasions is that you are
(47:44):
your best asset, that you really got to takecare of yourself.
And I know people like, it seems like, oh, selfcare is important and everything.
And I just say, like for me, I learned the veryhard way that if you build your life like
around your work and your work is not goingwell, then in your head, that means your life
is not going well.
(48:04):
And that's the part that's the part that youdon't realize when they say of care and, you
know, work life balance and stuff like that.
That's what they're talking about.
You know,
you've gotta have that balance.
You've gotta be able to, you know, take care ofyourself.
And, you know, like I tell some other folks,like, if the bank sees you treating your number
one asset like crap, like, why would they giveyou money?
Why would they believe in you?
Why, you know, why would they why would theytake a chance on you?
(48:25):
So you've gotta make sure you you're lookingout for yourself and your well-being in the
process.
I truly believe that the word selfish is issuch an unfair word.
Like, we you you you have to be selfish, whichsounds like the don't do that.
Don't be selfish.
Right?
But, like, you have to be selfish.
Like, you are the foundation for everythingelse in your life.
(48:48):
If it if you have kids, if you're just yourfamily in general, your work, foundations that
you're in, whatever you're doing relies uponyou being right.
Right?
Like, if you giving the best version ofyourself will be better for everybody around
you.
However, that takes work.
Like, that takes like, you have to be selfish.
So I love that advice.
I I think it's so true.
I I wish I could, you know, wave the magic wandand say, like, hey.
(49:11):
It's okay to, like, really take time and careabout yourself.
Like, you you don't need to put everybody elseahead of you or everything else in life ahead
of your needs.
And if that's just, like, you know, taking awalk just to give yourself a little time of
clarity or if it's, you know, not having tothink about, you know, what's for dinner for
(49:32):
your family every day and just saying like,hey.
Like, somebody else needs to to deal with thistoday.
Like, those things, which sound silly, like,you know, but when they stack up, it's it's
it's so meaningful and unbelievable.
So, great advice, Hendra.
I I love that.
Thanks.
Yeah.
This is this has been insane.
I love I love this episode.
So this is this is great.
(49:53):
I'm so happy.
We're gonna put all your social contacts andstuff in the show notes.
But if somebody wanted to get a hold of you,what's the best way for them to do that?
If they wanna get a hold of me, you can I guessyou can go to our website?
It's, taylorelectricc0.com.
There's contact information there.
Info at Taylor, that'll put you actuallytowards my executive assistant.
So she'll definitely you contact me directly.
(50:15):
Will knows this.
He's been stalking me for some time.
And at first, I was like, you just you need tomeet Charlotte.
Why are you talking to me?
I'm not you're not gonna get anywhere trying toschedule me like that.
But, yeah, if you go to our website, you canlearn more about our staff.
You can learn more about what we're doing, andyou can, you can reach out if you need anything
or if you wanna get involved in our nonprofit.
Yeah.
No.
Absolutely.
(50:36):
And is there anything else you'd like to tellthe people before we say goodbye?
No.
I just, you know, I think we enjoy being inthis industry.
We've, you know, we've we've worked hard toserve it as hard as we can, and it benefits us
as well.
And, you know, we make new friends and meet newpeople along the way.
So this was awesome.
I really appreciate you guys having me on.
Well, we appreciate you, Kendra.
(50:56):
You've been awesome.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
This has been a ton of fun listeners.
I know that you had a good time too.
And until next time, adios.
Adios.
Thanks for listening to Building Scale.
To help us reach even more people, please sharethis episode with a friend, colleague, or on
social media.
Remember, the 3 pillars of scaling a businessare people, process, and technology.
(51:18):
And our mission is to help the AEC industryprotect itself by making technology easy.
So if you think your company's technologypillar could use some improvement, book a call
with us to see how we can help maximize your ITcybersecurity strategy.
Just go to building scale dot net slash help.
(51:41):
And until next time,
keep building scale.
Scale.
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