September 24, 2024 • 60 mins
TJ O'Connor joins the conversation to share his career journey, detailing his pivot from a tile contractor to the trucking industry. He discusses his leadership philosophy and strategies for transforming a low morale team, highlighting a case study of employee behavior improvement through trust. The episode delves into servant leadership and the importance of including truck drivers in company decisions. TJ emphasizes the significance of employee engagement, tackling introversion, and improving public speaking skills. He reflects on his leadership legacy, transparency, and the impact of mentorship on career development.
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(00:00):
It's and I'll never forget the I when I knewthat the tide had changed was he I remember him
looking at me, and he's like, you know what,TJ?
You're right, man.
He's like, this is my fault.
This is my fault.
You've given me so many opportunities, and thisis on me.
And he's like, I deserve every part of this.
The next part is what he said is he's like, Ihave so much respect for you.
(00:24):
Have you ever wondered how successfularchitecture, engineering, and construction
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Or have you ever wanted guidance on how to getmore growth, wealth, and freedom from your AEC
company?
Well, then you're in luck.
Hi.
I'm Will Foratt.
And I'm Justin Nagel, and we're your podcasthosts.
We interview successful AEC business leaders tolearn how they use people, process, and
(00:49):
technology to scale their businesses.
So sit back and get ready to learn from theindustry's best.
This is Building scale.
Hey, listeners.
It's Will here.
Our mission is to help the AC industry protectitself by making technology easy.
If you've ever listened to our show, then youknow that the 3 pillars of scaling a business
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are people, process, and technology.
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Just go to buildingscale.net/health.
Today's guest is TJ O'Connor, general managerof SYNNEX.
(01:34):
TJ has various roles throughout his career,including tile contractor, operations manager,
plant manager, area manager, materialsmanagement, and human resources.
Hint.
Hint.
You may hear a hair about management today justbased on all of your titles that you've held.
For our listeners, it's definitely gonna bemanagement leadership heavy today.
And, CEMEX is a key player in the constructionof materials, specializing in ready mix and
(01:58):
trucking services, providing essentialsolutions for building projects.
TJ, we're really excited to hear about yourleadership journey.
When we first talked, I was, in awe in the inthe first conversation we had.
So, really excited about this.
And with all that said, welcome to the show.
Yeah.
No.
You guys, thank you so much for for giving mean opportunity, and I I appreciate, just being
(02:22):
able to to have these casual conversations,especially with you, Justin and Will, like we
have in the past.
And, being able to just have a platform to talkabout, you know, how I started in this industry
with, you know, little to no guidance to end upbeing a general manager for a major key player
in the construction industry, you know,navigating from, you know, California to, you
(02:44):
know, the Midwest all the way out to Florida.
So it's it's good stuff and really, reallyhappy to be here.
Yeah.
No.
Let's let's dive into that.
Let's talk a little bit about your originstory, how how it all actually came about, and,
you know, talk about the company as well.
Yeah.
No.
Absolutely.
So, you know, I I was thinking back, you know,to, you know, to my childhood, and I remember,
(03:07):
like, kinda first thinking about in elementaryschool.
God, what does TJ wanna do?
I wanna become a farmer.
You know, because I I I come from a long listof farmers.
Wow.
Farmers.
Okay.
Yeah.
So so, you know, my, you know, my greatgrandparents, you know, they they were they
were true farmers, in in in California, andspecifically in the Napa Valley.
(03:30):
And, you know, kinda fast forwarding, you know,I wanted to be a farmer.
And I remember going to you know, there was aschool project, and I and I brought home the
the the paper and and and tell my dad about it.
You know, I was just a kid.
And, my dad was so disappointed because he, youknow, he grew up in that environment, and he
knew what it was like.
(03:50):
So, you know, my I I come from a truckingfamily.
You know, my dad was a single parent with 4kids.
I was the youngest.
And, you know, he was hauling powder andaggregates for ready mix, companies up in the
up in Northern California.
And so, you know, I as I grew up, you know, asa teenager, you know, I was changing oil,
(04:13):
servicing trucks.
You know?
And then, you know, as as you progress throughthat, you know, then I wanna become a police
officer.
And and then I I figured, shoot.
I can make just as much money, probably moremoney, going into the construction field set in
tile.
And, you know, thinking about, you know, theSan Francisco Bay Area and and and and
(04:36):
pinpointing all those money corridors, youknow, I became a tile contractor.
And, you know, I did a lot of high profilejobs, you know, for famous people.
Stuff was in magazines like Better Homes, youknow, and Garden.
And, you know, there was this this outcome of,you know, every time you'd finish a job, you
(04:59):
always heard, oh my god.
This is so beautiful.
This is so beautiful.
And and, you know, I really honed in on mycraftsmanship, really just tried to do things
that were, you know, that people would neverforget.
Whether it was a whether it was a, a storefrontto a steam shower at at someone's mansion, you
(05:21):
know, I did stuff for, you know, Trey Trey Coolfrom Green Day, Ricky Henderson, Laurel Bergman
from 60 Minutes.
So, yeah, I was that's who I was navigatingwith in my career.
So I I did that for 10 years, up until, oeight, you know, when things got a little bit
sideways on us in the economy.
And, you know, a lot of us in the constructionindustry, had to go look for something
(05:46):
different to do.
And, you know, in my back pocket, you know, I Igrew up in that trucking family.
And so I I started working for a truckingcompany, you know, dispatching customer
service.
And, I kinda worked my way through the rankswhere I got, you know, picked up by a big
player in the market, US Concrete, and, wasmanaging materials, for for for 19 barrier
(06:10):
ready mix plants.
And then I raised my hand to become a plantmanager.
And that is my progression just started goingstraight up from there very, very quickly.
And went from, you know, plant manager to areamanager, you know, navigating San Francisco
Redwood City down to the South Bay, San Jose,you know, going to ops manager and then
(06:38):
navigating into, you know, over the past 17, 18years going into a general manager position
work working for Semex.
And, I will tell you, as as a young adult, I Iwas lost.
I I didn't have a lot of support.
I didn't know what I was doing.
And, you know, and then, you know, my mainfocus today is, you know, in this role is
(07:03):
honestly helping that next generation, that'sthat's coming into this industry.
Yeah.
I I remember when we talked about thisoriginally, and you you talked about,
obviously, your upbringing and, like, how thatimpacted things.
Obviously, being the tile, like, you know, bigbig bad tile contractor in the bay,
effectively, and then trying to find your placeagain.
(07:25):
Right?
Like and that's that's a lot a lot comes withthat.
A lot of, obviously, emotions, you know,strength that has to come out of that, all
these things.
So, the thing that I've I've found with you waswas very much, you know, leading other people
that maybe have similar thoughts, similarupbringings, things like that, where you have
just really found a way to like, hey, like, youcan do great things.
(07:48):
And I, you know, I
want to help you
get there with very much, what we just was veryelectrifying after we had our first
conversation.
So, when I think about that, like, when, likehow do you realize that to be true?
Like how do you get to become a good leader inthat regard?
How do you lead, you know, other people thatcame from similar places to you to to get the
(08:12):
best out of them?
How do you how have you done that?
How have you found that to to be your littlemagic superpower?
So so for for myself, there I got a couplecompounding contributors, which which I'd like
to share with you guys.
And it's it's truly, you know, you think about,my upbringing.
You know, my my dad was a good dad.
(08:33):
Okay?
But, you know, you never heard, hey.
You did a great job.
Okay.
So that you carry that through life.
You just do.
That's that's, you know, one of the scars, youknow, I think that all of us, you know, we all
have scars growing up whether big or small.
And that was one of my scars.
And I and and so as I navigated in my career, Ialways looked for that that pat on the back.
(09:02):
So whether it was set and tile, playing music,playing sold out clubs in the Bay Area, up in
Sacramento, all over, you know, to to buildingcars and being on the covers of magazines.
I I always look for, you know, that, oh my god.
It's beautiful.
Okay?
(09:22):
So so to answer your question, you know, whatdid I do?
Well, I honestly, you know, I I when I cameinto this industry, I I tried to, honestly, I
tried to blend in.
I I tried to I tried to, be relatable to theother person on on the other side of the table.
(09:43):
So so, like, for example, you know, when I wason the ready mix side, as a as an area manager,
you know, for the first time in 25 years, theyhad never seen a manager pick up a broom and
shovel and go work side by side, you know, withwith laborers in the yard.
And and that was kind of that that, you know,the beginning of the icebreaker.
(10:04):
And so I tried to figure out, okay, how how canI be genuine?
I wanna be genuine.
I wanna be light.
What kind of effect can I have as a leader toget get people to follow me?
1st and foremost, it was trust.
It was being able to be relatable.
So so, like, for example, you know, guys wouldsay, hey.
(10:27):
When we first saw you, your very first dayhere, man, we were really scared of you
because, you know, you're this big tall guy.
You're a big strapper.
You're covered in tattoos.
You know?
So, again, for for the for everybody on the youknow, that's watching here, you know, even down
to the hands, it it was it was being relatable.
You know?
It was, wow.
(10:47):
This guy left his title at the door, and hehe's side by side with us even though he's
leading us.
So that was something I really tried to triedto hone in on was was trust, being relatable.
Wait.
Time time out time out for a second.
Okay.
We need the backstory.
Okay?
Because I think the back story is missingbecause you were I'm gonna say it.
(11:09):
You were handed a shit show.
Okay?
From my understanding, you were essentiallygiven the lowest morale region, right, to go
manage as, like, out of all the all thelocations, this was the lowest morale Yeah.
Location.
Give us the backstory there.
(11:30):
Yeah.
Start there.
I think this is super crucial and important tohelp people understand the huge turnaround that
happened because you walked in the door.
Okay?
Yeah.
I think it gives a lot of context as to whythis is important.
Yeah.
So so originally, when I raised my hand to bea, you know, a plant manager, I I was covering
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Redwood City in South San Francisco.
Those were and they were very strategic in theBay Area, and it was a good crew.
And I was there for 3 months.
And, you know, one thing that people will say,you know, just kind of on the other side is,
you know, who's TJ?
Oh my god.
That guy is totally nice.
He's so nice.
And, you know, after 3 months, I I remembergetting a call, from the VPGM at the time, and
(12:16):
and he said, hey.
We're gonna relocate you down to the South Bayfor ready mixed plants.
We want you to we want you to take it over.
And I'm like, wow.
Wow.
Okay.
Cool.
I mean, I mean, it was a bigger it was the potjust got much bigger.
And and then people started calling me and andand, you know, through once they heard that I
was gonna be real relocated down there, and I'mlike, why are they sending TJ to the snake pit?
(12:40):
The snake I mean, look at this is what I washearing from, you know, from from batch guys
and and plant operators, operating engineers.
They're like, why are they sending TJ to thesnake pit?
And because they knew that I was honestlyprobably too nice, and they they probably
didn't think I was gonna survive it.
And so, you know, I'm excited.
I mean, just excited just for the opportunity.
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And, I remember my my very first day, andagain, you're kinda referencing, you know, guys
seeing me walk across the yard at the StocktonAvenue plant.
And, I remember walking in into to the breakroom to get to the office.
Again, 1st day, 1st hour on the job, you know,love, love stock the Stockton Avenue plant.
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And and and I walked in and there was this bigstrapper.
I mean, this I mean, this guy was probably myheight.
I'm 66, but he was probably a good £75.
He was he was ripped.
I mean, this guy worked out.
He was probably 10 years older than me, and hehad, like, wolf eyes.
I mean, he was looking at me like like like hewanted to fight me.
Okay.
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And this is my very first exposure.
There was no introduction.
There was no, hey.
This is good.
This is gonna be the new area manager.
This is TJ O'Connor.
It was none of that.
I walk in.
This guy's looking at me like he wants to to tofight me.
He reaches into his mouth, pulls out a big wadof chew, throws it on the window, and says,
(14:06):
what are you gonna do about it?
And so
That's a statement right there.
Jeez.
Okay.
So lowest morale in 25 years.
Okay.
It was a revolving door of managers.
They they had managers that that had no commonsense in in those prior roles.
(14:29):
Kind of giving you some of that backstory.
So so no common sense.
Headhunters, guys hiding in the in theliterally hiding in the bushes with a camera to
jump out and say, gotcha.
I got you without your hard hat on and take apicture and suspend them.
These guys were just treated terribly asemployees.
(14:51):
If you think about what these got again, nocommon sense.
And so so okay.
Day 1, you know, that was my very firstexposure.
His name was Mark.
And, so Mark was
the leader of the welcome wagon at Snake Pit.
He was.
Ironically enough, I I still hear from Mark, tothis day, and he'll leave me joke messages on
(15:17):
my on my phone, you know, make it feel likemaking fun of managers.
You know?
Because he, you know, we have some we ended upactually being very close friends.
So there was a day 1, I'm looking straight up,and it's Mount Everest.
It's literally Mount Everest.
There is no support.
Good luck, TJ.
(15:38):
Hope you survive it.
And what I my approach was I need to get theseguys to trust me.
They they need to know that I am ultraunderstanding.
I've got common sense.
I'm gonna what's right is right.
What's wrong is wrong.
And I will go I will go to the mat at any levelwithin the organization because if I if I have
(16:04):
conviction and I've, you know, if what's rightis right and what's wrong is wrong, and let's
have some common sense and let's have a let'shave a conversation about that and talk through
that.
And, unfortunately, that may have been a youknow, some of my, you know, challenges in my
growing is because I am willing to challenge.
I will challenge whether it's a, you know,whether it's a it's it's someone in my saying
(16:29):
you know, in a general manager or even aboveme.
And I I'm not proud to say that.
I'm not proud of that.
But but you gotta remember the employee factor,the employee part of this and and and the
treatment.
So trust, common sense, willing to work withsomebody.
Hey, man.
(16:49):
Don't forget your hard hat.
Hey, man.
Don't forget your gloves.
Instead of just going right and chopping thisguy's head off.
And it took literally 6 months from day 1 tothe 6 month mark.
And I'll never forget, VPGM at the time, JeffDavis.
(17:10):
This guy was just such a wonderful guy, but hewas a slam your hand down on the fist type of
manager.
He was I mean, he was this is how we're gonnado things.
I mean, he but he was good.
He was effective.
And I'll never forget, he came across theStockton Avenue Street, you know, because the
corporate office was on Stockton Avenue.
Directly across the street was plant 1.
(17:31):
It was the number one plant, part of thebackbone for for this ready mix company.
And, you know, he came across the streetlaughing, you know, kinda chuckling, had a big
smile on his face.
And you you never knew what you were gonna getwith this guy.
He was either you know, he might send you downthe river.
And he came across the street laughing, and hesaid he said, TJ, I gotta hand it to you.
You did it.
(17:51):
And I'm like and I was, you know, I was got alittle naive at the time.
My you know, I'm like, did what?
You know?
And he's like, you were the first manager in 25years to effectively change the morale to the
highest it's ever been in the South Bay to thepoint where we're getting drivers calling this
(18:12):
office saying, please don't move this managerto another region.
You had union leaders doing the same thing.
Guys that Wow.
Off, man.
These these union leaders were and that was thesame thing too.
Not only did I have to get the drivers buy in,get their trust, we're talking 75 Teamster
(18:33):
drivers, 10 operating engineers for for local3, and then you also have the union side.
You had union leaders that I had to go do thesame thing with, common sense, rebuilding
trust.
And even those union leaders, I mean, some ofthose guys were they were they were tough.
They were tough guys, and they've been around,you know, 30 plus years.
(18:55):
You know?
And they knew all of the previous skeletons inthe closet, and they were doing the same thing.
They were calling in to upper managementsaying, hey, man.
This guy this guy's great.
And you know me, I'm I'm such a shy youwouldn't well, I don't know.
You know, again, just kind of being transparentwith you guys.
I mean, listen.
(19:15):
I am ultra shy.
I'm I've, you know, I've got a layer of beingintroverted.
It takes an awful lot for me to come throughthe door and turn on that switch.
If I'm comfortable with you, you will get this.
You will get this persona.
So so for me going into that environment,again, looking at Mount Everest in front of me,
(19:39):
I really had to dig deep within myself, work onthis trust, rebuilding, reestablishing
relationships that were it was really, reallydeep.
And, goddamn it.
I'm proud to say that I'm the one who did
it.
That's awesome.
Oh my god.
Yeah.
Hey.
I did have a question, because you said it.
(20:00):
So lowest morale to basically one of thehighest morale, if not the highest in the
entire company.
Right?
Yeah.
How do you measure morale?
Right?
I think this is something that's superimportant to kinda hear or and understand
because sometimes it's a gut check.
Right?
I I I've done sometimes it's just asking aquestion, but how do you measure morale?
What are the what are the ways that you canmeasure morale?
(20:23):
So so, you know, you know, kinda looking at thelooking at that South Bay as an example, you'd
come in and there would be trash thrown on theground, dirty countertops, not a lot of pride
in now think think about think about, you know,the dynamics of of the workday for for an
operating engineer Teamster in that environmentup in the top 1% pay scale of the nation.
(20:48):
Okay?
So high pay scale.
And you come in, things are filthy.
There's not a lot of pride.
You you if you walk through the yard again,those first, like, month, you you would walk
through the yard.
Guys would literally roll down their window,throw trash out right right there in front of
you.
I mean, right there in front of you, prettymuch the middle finger, okay, on blast.
(21:09):
And so for me, I'm like, okay.
And I would look around.
I'm like, man, bathroom is junky.
No one's no one no one's reinvested into thebathroom.
No one has reinvested into their break room.
And now remember, these guys are are 10, 12, 13hour days on the clock driving ready mixed
(21:31):
truck.
So they're spending half of their day, with thecompany.
Okay.
What can I do to show them that I care?
And so I started by when I would see trash onthe ground, you know, you'd have all the trucks
staged in the yard or, you know, 5 AM, lightsare on, you know, the plants humming, you know,
(21:52):
production.
And I would let them see me pick up the trash.
I wasn't better than anybody else.
And that that was something that, you know, Itried to let them see me do that.
Okay?
Then I started reinvesting into, you know, theinfrastructure, you know, the break rooms or
bathrooms, saying thank you.
(22:12):
Hey, man.
I really appreciate what you guys did this weekindividually or also in a group setting.
So weekly tailgate safety meetings, monthlysafety meetings.
I really appreciate what you guys have done.
I know that you got you know, so so showingthat record being genuine too, like, genuine,
like, heart on my a heart on my sleeve.
That's the type of guy I am.
(22:34):
And and and and that you could start to see themorale change.
You could then you would start to see guys callout other guys.
Hey, man.
Wipe down the countertop.
You just spilled coffee.
Wipe clean it up.
So so then the the sense of pride started topick up in that 6 month window, and and you
would effectively start to see morale change.
(22:54):
Hey.
We're looking for volunteers on Saturday.
Boom.
Everyone was volunteering.
You got to the point where guys would would doanything for you because you were doing
anything for them.
And and you went from, you know, Mark throwingthe chew on the window to guys calling out,
hey, man.
Don't spit your sunflower seeds, you know, onthe floor or in the sink.
(23:18):
Clean it up.
Guys were guys were police they were policingeach other.
Now you're always gonna have that that that 5%within within the workforce, okay, that are
gonna boo the cure for cancer.
Okay?
You're all you're gonna have that, I think,anywhere you go.
But if I can get the other 95% and we're allimagine a line.
(23:39):
Okay.
Instead of the pyramid where TJ's at the top ofthe pyramid leading, I always took the straight
line approach where all of us are on a straightline together, and we're all pushing that ball
together.
No one's better than someone else.
And that was kind of that buy in.
So and so answering your question, Will, I Ithink that I did the a few of those things, and
(24:01):
I was consistent as a manager that built themorale.
So then then now you walk into a facility thatis getting awards for being clean,
environmentally.
Guys are policing each other.
Guys are, volunteering for stuff that theynormally wouldn't have done, you know, 6 months
(24:21):
ago.
And and that was that was the clock.
That was literally the clock of progression tosee it.
I love hearing how you describe, like, thebefore and the after.
Because morale, I think it's very hard tomeasure.
But you but you get but you get the sense of itbased on what called symptoms.
Right?
You can't see the disease.
(24:42):
We can see the symptoms.
If it's bad morale, I'll call it a disease.
You can see the symptoms of it.
And same thing with good morale.
And if you're somewhere in between, right,between those those two places, it's really
hard to see progress in the middle.
But you could see it's like watching paint dry.
No one is wet.
You know one is dry.
(25:03):
The in between is the hard part and for you,you know, and seeing if there's actual
progress.
So Yeah.
Was there any one point outside of, obviously,your VPGM, going to you, was there any large
sort of shift or change, like, in a you know,let's say the next day or something like that,
(25:25):
all of a sudden you felt like, oh, we are nowin a very different place, or was it or was it
very gradual?
Yeah.
Honestly, I I I can tell you when and where, ithappened.
And and and I wanna use Mark as an example.
So think about introduction to Mark day 1 inthe South Bay.
(25:47):
Okay?
To Mark, Mark was habitually late.
He was always 5, 10 minutes late.
Okay.
He was.
That's just who he was.
And he lived, like, 15 minutes away.
He he he was probably the guy that lived theclosest to the plant.
Okay?
He'd been with the company 25 plus years.
(26:09):
No respect for management whatsoever.
And Mark was so I I wanna use Mark as anexample.
I remember the day that, you know, I would onceonce the relationship was established with the
drivers and and and the union leaders, And Iwould I would call them, and I'm like, hey.
I I gotta write up Mark because, man, thisguy's late, and he's on the radar with
(26:33):
dispatch.
And I I'm like, there's nothing I can do here.
Like, I I I I've given this guy so manyopportunities.
You know, I'm willing to do that.
Listen.
We don't have to do anything on paper.
Again, common sense.
Let's try to work through it together as ateam.
Instead of being a hammer, give a guy give givean employee an opportunity to to get better or
(26:56):
help them.
So I'll never forget, I brought Mark in, and wewere sitting in my office.
I I said, hey, Mark.
I I gotta I gotta I gotta write you up.
I gotta give you a, you know, a a suspension.
Because we had already started, you know, thethe the verbal warning, the written warning.
Now it was at, like, the one day suspensionmark.
And, you know, and and again, you know, Markwas a big scary dude.
(27:20):
I mean, he was a big scary guy, you know.
It's and I'll never forget the I when I knewthat the tide had changed was he I remember him
looking at me, and he's like, you know what,TJ?
You're right, man.
He's like, this is my fault.
This is my fault.
You've given me so many opportunities, and thisis on me.
And he's like, I deserve every part of this.
(27:40):
The next part is what he said is he's like, Ihave so much respect for you.
Bingo.
I have so much and I'm trying not to beemotional right now because you you think about
those things in in an employee's life.
Again, you may you think about they're spendinghalf of their they're spending call it, 12
hours a day with you, 10 to 12 hours a day atwork with you.
And, you know, you're you're breaking breadwith these people.
(28:01):
You're you you have a lot of conversationswith, you know, with with these employees.
And, when he said that, I knew deep down insidethat that was the pinnacle moment because he
was one of those voices.
Remember, seniority list, he was like number 2on the seniority list.
(28:21):
The other guy was a guy named Rick Brackett andanother strong strong voice in that call it
that community of of ready mixed drivers.
And I knew once I had their trust, and and theysaid, it's because we respect you.
I knew that I was able I knew that I had donesomething good.
Okay.
So if there's anything to take away from this,the driver for morale, right, you measured
(28:49):
morale.
The driver for morale was the building trustaspect, but it was to gain trust and also
respect of, essentially, you called them yourpeers, right?
Would that be fair to say?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, what we've seen, and this is, in effect,servant leadership.
(29:13):
Right?
Where when you look at leadership or rolestructures, The one person that's at the top,
the reality and then everyone's kind ofunderneath.
The reality is it gets flipped.
What you essentially did is you turned thepyramid upside down, and all your employees are
(29:35):
at the top, and you're essentially saying, whatcan I do for you?
Yes.
How can I help you?
How can I help you?
So so think about the dynamic of, you know, ofa driver.
And and I wanna go back.
Let's go let's go back 40 years.
Okay?
I'll use my dad as an example.
And, you know, like, my dad was well respected,call it in the trucking community.
(30:01):
You know, he had prima donna Peter Belts.
I mean, they were, you know, beautiful, trucks.
I mean, I mean, even guys today, they'llthey'll when I cross paths with them, they'll
they'll make jokes, not jokes, but they'll say,I remember your dad or your brother on the side
of the road.
They'd be polishing the tanks on the truck.
You know?
Just so the truck's beautiful.
There was a reputation there.
There was a you know, so so think so so then Ithink about, like, like, my very first TJ goes
(30:27):
to a trucking construction job, and it was agrinding paving job.
I'll never forget, Clayton Road about 1 o'clockin the morning in Concord, California.
And this this this old timer, who was part ofthe, paving crew.
This guy got in my face and was screaming atthe top of his lungs, screaming where the
(30:48):
truck's at.
Okay?
These drivers got the same treatment 40 yearsago to today.
2024, they go to a construction job site, andthere's some cowboy who wants to, you know,
posture and and try to make these guys feelstupid.
And it's a it's a it's a terrible it's aterrible problem in this industry that we have.
(31:17):
Okay?
So you take that dynamic.
You know that.
And and I know inside I think about my dad, andI wouldn't I wouldn't want my dad treated that
way.
So I made damn sure that I didn't treat thoseguys out.
And that and and it was legit.
It was honest.
It was heartfelt conversations.
(31:37):
It was genuine respect for the position thatthey held, the experience that they had.
I'll be honest with you.
A lot of these guys could could run circlesaround the project managers because of their
knowledge.
Didn't matter that they drove a truck.
They had industry knowledge.
(31:58):
And that's the other that's the other facet tooI I wanna bring up is we didn't do them any
justice by not inviting them to the table fortheir input.
And I gave them a platform to come to thetable, and that's something I'm proud of
because that's what helped me in my journey day1 in the South Bay.
(32:18):
I gave them an opportunity to come to thetable, and I wanted their ideas.
I wanted their input because it's a Travis.
So so think about this.
Think about a company that's gonna buy 30 brandnew, Kenworths or Peterbilt Mack Trucks, you
name it.
Pick any flavor that you that you want thebest.
And you got a bunch of guys in a room speckingout a truck that they're gonna go buy 30.
(32:42):
They're gonna go spend 1,000,000 of dollars on.
Okay?
They're get they're the ones who are gonna getthe the cool jacket, maybe the the little
miniature truck model that they can put ontheir shelf.
Okay?
You guys know that.
Right?
Okay.
Oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah.
Did anybody invite
super into into construction.
Like, this is, like, the theme for hisbirthday, my 2 year old son.
So, yes, I'm totally digging this right now.
(33:05):
Okay.
Did anybody invite that driver to the room?
Did anybody get his input?
When we spec the trucks, did we make sure thatthe back of the cab had the air ride shocks on
it?
Because I'll tell you what, I've seen thathappen where they weren't ordered, and now next
thing they look, guys complaining about hisback hurt.
They're like, you guys spent all this money,and you didn't put the $300 shock on it?
(33:28):
That's a travesty in our industry where wedon't happen to the knowledge that's right
there in front of us.
So so for me, you know, as a manager, as as aas a as a cog in the wheel for for for whatever
company I'm I'm working for, first andforemost, the company is is is my focus.
(33:49):
I will follow policy and procedure to a team.
I'm proud to say that I can do that.
I will do that.
I will challenge, but I will make sure that theright people are in the room.
I will make damn sure that the right people arein the room.
So we are making decisions.
We're making them feel like they are a part ofthis company because they're in it.
There is such an important part of the wheel.
(34:10):
It isn't just a bunch of executives in a, in aroom, you know, patting each other on the back
for the decisions that they made.
They wouldn't be there if it wasn't for thatother side of the fence.
Right?
And that's how I feel.
And I and I have strong convictions about that.
And I think that's probably maybe sometimes whyI get a little bit in trouble because I am
mouthy.
I can be mouthy when I, you know, when it whenit comes to when it comes to a challenge,
(34:33):
because I have a lot of conviction there.
You know?
I I, honestly, I think about my dad.
I think about I think about my dad, and I Ithink as I've progressed through my career, my
dad, you know, before he passed away, you know,we would have conversations.
I'd be driving home.
And, you know, he lived in in Oregon at thetime, you know, before he passed away.
And he always got a kick out of he's like, I II can't believe you're now you're telling them
(35:00):
what to do, where it was always the other wayaround.
And and and and I know he always got tickledabout that, but I always did it on the up and
up.
I always always I always wanted to make surethat that I was accurate in in my information.
So if I was gonna go challenge something, if Iwas gonna go put my neck on the line and
challenge, you know, which you gotta be carefulof.
(35:20):
Sometimes people say, don't send it, TJ.
Don't send it.
Send.
Love TJ.
That's that's a good question though.
Like, so, obviously, you have an industry thatthinks away.
They have a mindset that's already in place.
It's been that way for 40 however, longer thanthat maybe, but 40 plus years.
(35:41):
Right?
Mhmm.
You're coming in and you're saying like, weneed to do things differently.
Like like in the people that, are underneath myleadership and management, we are going to do
things differently.
We are gonna be more of this line or reversepyramid, however you wanna, you know,
illustrate that out.
How how do you push that up, right?
Like, how how do you how do you lead thoseabove you to come to the same realization of
(36:06):
like, hey, like that driver or drivers or groupof drivers should be in a room when you're
deciding on buying new trucks.
Like, it like, that seems like common sense.
Right?
Like, the person that's using the tool shouldhave at least somewhat input on which tool is
chosen.
Obviously, there are other aspects to businessthat go to things, but, like, how how do you
(36:28):
push it up?
Right?
Obviously, you say, I'm I'll I'll push send.
I'll push send.
But, like, there's ways to do that that, have,impact, and there's ways to do that that get
you on your ass.
Right?
Like, that's effectively what can happen.
So how do you navigate that?
Like, hey, I'm going to bat for my guys, butI'm I'm not I'm not putting myself in a
(36:50):
position where it's like, tree that, like, I'mgonna get arrested.
Like, there's not, like, there's not an Right.
There's not a way around this, even though I'mdoing the thing I think is right.
Yeah.
So so there's a fine line there.
You know?
For for
for me,
I have the ultimate most utmost respect for forthe chain of command.
(37:13):
I I do.
I mean, I, you know, you know, I I do, Youknow?
And, and when it comes to when it comes toscenarios like that, you know, I think that it
really it's up it's up to the individual who'spart let's say, it's it's part of that circle
that says, hey, you guys.
I I really think that we should include let'shey.
(37:34):
Let's include, you know, maybe someone senioron the list from the driver pool.
Let's let's get some input there.
And and and honestly honestly, I think if youhave someone in the room that is looking out
that way, the rest of the rest of the people inthat circle will say, hey.
You know, you're you're right.
I wasn't even thinking of that.
(37:54):
So I think I think sometimes, you know, I thinkthe circle loses sight of of, you know, the
outcome.
Because remember, that guy's gonna be in thattruck for 10 or 12 hours a day, go bouncing
around, whether it's on a construction site oror, you know, going down the freeway.
And I think they just lose sight of it.
And it just takes somebody in in the room tosay and say, raise their hand and say, hey.
(38:17):
Listen.
I I let's let's ball.
Let's let's bring in, you know, David, and andlet's get his input on this and see what he
thinks.
As soon as you have someone that does that,it's usually pretty welcomed.
I have not encountered a situation where it hasgone sour, where someone has said, no, that's
dumb.
Like, let's not do that.
It's always been well invited, but it'simportant that there's somebody in the room
(38:40):
that just does raise their hand and say, hey.
Let's let's let's bring in, you know, driver aand get their input on this.
So you had at least some engagement from peopleeven if it was negative, but you need that
engagement.
If there's no engagement, I would I wouldimagine that's actually a lot harder if it if
it's sort of apathy versus, versus negativeengagement can be turned around.
(39:06):
Right?
Because, it's emotional.
There's an emotional aspect to it.
And that means that at least someone is willingto communicate with you.
No communications, in my opinion, is way worsebecause then you're in limbo land and
Yeah.
Mhmm.
Getting someone to be intrinsically motivatedto get to the other side of where you're trying
to steer the ship.
Mhmm.
It's really hard to have someone on board ifthey're like, I'm not doing anything.
(39:30):
Like, I'm not I'm not gonna engage.
I'm not gonna communicate.
I'm not going to.
Okay.
Did you have situations like that?
I have.
I've experienced that.
I've I've I in in my career, I have definitelyexperienced that.
And, you know, sometimes, you know, when youtake when you take, an individual like myself
who who is ultra passionate, who who does thinkabout, you know, the positives and negatives,
(39:57):
the impacts on whether it's, you know, for thecompany or or the employee perspective, you
know, potential outcomes there.
Yeah.
It it it can't there there can be a layer offrustration.
But I think as a as whether if you're if you'rein a leadership role, I think that you you need
(40:19):
to raise your hand.
You need to you need to challenge the statusquo.
And and even if that even if that challenge isis little, hey.
What do you guys think about this?
Let's bring in so and so.
And, you know, because because I know the otherend of this the spectrum.
So for example, let's just say let's let's takethat truck that didn't have the air ride on the
(40:42):
back of the cab.
Guess what?
That guy ended up getting a, an injury, aworkers' comp claim.
Now you got a now you've got lost time.
Good job, leaders.
Good job for listening in.
All of a sudden, that $300 doesn't sound somuch.
Yeah.
Now you're talking engaged.
100 of 1,000 of dollars and, you know,potentially.
(41:04):
And so so I I think it's important, you know.
It's weird.
I, you know, I've been in this industry, what,17, 18 years now.
And and, you know, I think the industry ischanging.
It's it's changing.
You have a new way.
So first off, you don't have a lot of peopleknocking on the door to go drive trucking.
That's the first facet.
(41:25):
You know, we've seen it on the news.
It's a it's a nationwide problem.
Okay?
Now that generation that we are getting, youhave to be able to adapt quickly because you're
at the mercy.
Now you have a generation that says, hey.
I don't wanna work 10, 12 hours a day.
(41:45):
I wanna work 8 and a half, 9.
And you have to find ways to as, you know, inmy opinion, you have to find ways to be
accommodating because we need them.
We need them.
It's it's an industry that has, unfortunately,has been, honestly, neglected.
(42:06):
It's been neglected.
I mean, it's it's it's been neglected in many,many ways.
And and, unfortunately, you know, if you takelet's just take a one truck owner operator.
You know?
Let's let's call it let's call it TJ's dad1968.
He's got one truck.
You know, he's a one truck operator.
He has a lot of operating costs the year 2024.
(42:30):
His insurance is through the roof.
His repair, repair and maintenance tires isthrough the roof.
But what's the first cut that we want to do?
Well, we wanna cut the rate.
We wanna, we wanna, we wanna cut the rate.
So the driver doesn't make as much because ithelps our bottom line.
Hey, I get all that, but don't forget that thisguy has high operating costs When you want him
(42:56):
to move material from origin to destination,there's a cost involved.
You know, there just is.
So so I I think the dynamic there is, you know,we we just us in this industry have to be aware
of that.
We have to keep it right there in front of us.
It has to be at the Forefront as part of, youknow, the the process.
(43:18):
And, you know, I I can say I can honestly say,you know, over the past couple of years, I can
say that the industry from what I've seen isadapting rather quickly.
They are embracing these changes.
They are embracing this this, you know, it's adifferent truck driver today than it was 30
(43:39):
years ago.
Let alone 20 years ago.
And but we are adapting.
We're we're figuring it out.
And and it's not all doom and gloom.
I mean, really, really, you know, when you haveengagement with these employees today in in,
you know, 2024, it is positive.
It's very, very positive.
It's not there's not a lot of negativity there.
(44:01):
So it there is a breath of fresh air there aswell.
You mentioned being introverted earlier.
You said Yeah.
I am very interested.
And when you told me this, I was like, well,that doesn't add up.
Like, that doesn't that you know, ourinteractions don't equate to this.
And then you had also told me, hey.
Like, I had spoken in front of, like, 600people, and I'm like, well, that doesn't Yeah.
Again, this there's something missing here.
(44:22):
But you had mentioned, you get you flip theswitch.
Right?
It takes it takes Yeah.
It takes, some doing, but, like, you can flipthe switch.
Yeah.
How how does that work?
How how do you how do you take the I am thisway, but for this role or for this, situation,
I need to be this way.
How do you how do you make that happen?
What's what's your process?
(44:43):
My process is, it's so funny.
I make myself I'll I'll make myself sick.
I literally will.
I I will make myself sick to my stomach.
You know, because I'm a I'm an overthinker.
I overthink.
I dwell, I dwell on things.
I dwell on on outcomes that maybe never evenhappen.
(45:04):
Okay.
Okay.
So we gotta be realistic here.
Let's be honest.
Okay.
So that's that does happen to me.
So, I from for for me, I'll use the the LasVegas experience.
Working on a project with some guys across theUnited States that, you know, through the
(45:28):
NRMCA, it was a developing industry leaderprogram that I got nominated to.
And, you know, you get paired up with guys thatare in similar roles, and you have to do a
presentation, at at the center MCA convention.
And oh my god, man.
I'm I'm so shy.
(45:48):
I really am.
I I I'm I'm very shy, And I'm like, you want meto go speak in front of 600 people?
Like, what?
Like, but I had to perform.
I I don't here's the thing.
I don't wanna let you down.
I don't wanna let you down.
I want you to be proud of me at the end of theday.
(46:10):
I do.
And that's an honest statement.
That's an honest accurate feeling that I have.
And so so when I'm in that process so forexample, let's say if if I have a rotation
where I I cover multiple facilities.
So there may be a 3 week period where maybe afacility hasn't seen me.
(46:31):
And as I approach that gate, the butterfliesare hitting.
I roll through the gate.
The butterflies are, whoop, going up.
I park.
I get out.
I put on my hard hat, all my PPE.
And as soon as I touch that door, boom, lightswitch comes on, and it's what you're seeing
right now.
And it's I I don't the problem is and it'sgetting worse as I get older.
(46:55):
The introvertedness is getting worse.
And I but but here's the thing.
I'm I recognize it.
I and I don't want it to I don't want it to bea roadblock for for myself, for friendship, for
my career.
So so I I work through it.
I learned something, I I I was speaking with acoach, a career coach, that I got paired up
(47:22):
with, and I've been working with thisindividual for the past 6 months.
And, and something, you know, she said, shesaid, what do you, what do you want to, what do
you, what do you want to be remembered for?
Like, what's your legacy legacy?
What is your legacy?
And, and I told her, I I wanna be I wanna beremembered for for helping people out.
(47:45):
I wanna be remembered for if I can helpsomebody blossom in their career at any layer
at any layer within the organization, I'll thatwill make me feel so good.
Okay.
So that's one side of the coin.
Okay?
What's the other side?
I wanna be contagious.
(48:05):
I want I want people.
I want people.
Word.
Uh-huh.
Yeah.
I want people to feel I want people to feelgood.
I want people to feel inspired by a shortconversation, a long conversation that I just
had with them.
And I I want them to feel I want them to beable to feel, like, there's no roadblocks in
(48:27):
the way.
And if I can if I can achieve that in mycareer, okay, recognizing that I have I'm I'm
not gonna call it a problem.
But I recognize that I I I am, I I'm extremelyintroverted.
I'm extremely shy.
And if I can help somebody navigate thosewaters in their career and help them blossom,
(48:50):
then that makes me that fills the cup.
That fills the cup of enjoyment, every day thatthat I that I get out and I my feet hit hit the
floor from getting out of bed.
And I had a I had a conversation yesterday withan individual out in Florida.
They, she reached out to me looking for careeradvice.
(49:12):
You know, again, being an effective leader.
Okay?
Leave the title at the door.
And and these people would tell me they're theyyou know, when I would go there and visit them,
they would be like, you're the only person thatever comes up and talks to us.
You're the only person that's ever nice to us.
You know?
Like, when when, you know, when there's thesemeetings, and I'm like and and and it's
honestly, it's just like, I'm just being who Iam.
I I I want them to feel good about about beingable to approach, doesn't matter the title,
(49:38):
being being approachable.
Like, hey.
I've got a problem, or hey.
I've got an idea.
What do you think?
Being able to bounce that off of them.
And and this person said to me, you know, she'slike, you well, I've had 2 people now say it to
him.
They're like, you're the most transparent,you're the most transparent manager I've ever
had in my entire career.
(49:59):
And I think that's an important key beingtransparent and being honest with whether it's
a direct report or, you know, anywhere, anylayer within the organization being ultra
transparent and being honest.
If you don't know, say it.
And, you know, so this, this, you know, thisperson said, you have been so supportive and,
and have given me so much guidance.
(50:21):
And she's like, no one has ever done that.
No one has ever done that anywhere I've worked.
And goddamn.
That's a good feeling.
Cause that, that may let me, if I, if you guysdon't mind, let me, let me back up to to 1995.
Okay.
TJ is gonna graduate high school in 1995.
(50:41):
I had no guidance.
I had no I had no support.
Like, literally no support in my career to sayto help steer me.
I had to figure it out on my own.
I'm not saying listen.
My my dad was a good dad.
Okay?
He he was there.
He was there.
You know?
He he had 4 kids.
(51:02):
He was there.
Okay?
And and and I have a very small family, youknow, aunt, uncle, grandma, couple cousins.
It's very, very small family.
And and because of that family, you know,they're they were there, but there was nobody
that ever said they they gave you guidance.
They gave you to help you steer the ship.
Okay?
And so I I think about kind of going through mymy career progression and thinking about
(51:25):
listen.
That's something I recognize.
And if I can help somebody if I can helpsomebody in any part of their career, that
makes me feel good.
It makes me it it helps fill the bucket.
It helps kinda smooth over over some of thosescars, you know, that we incur growing up,
going through adulthood, young adulthood intobeing an adult, having kids and stuff.
(51:49):
And you and you try to you know, you learn fromsome of that stuff.
And some of it is not not our fault.
Right?
That we it's not our fault.
You know?
And it's it's not a blame game either.
So I I think about that.
And I, honestly, I think about it every day.
I think about it every day.
I get up, and, what what positive impact can Imake in somebody's life that I work with?
(52:15):
Whether it's just, hey, man.
How you doing?
Is everything good?
Can you know, do you need anything from me toto career advice, to personal advice, to and I
and I think sometimes it gets lost.
It's just been lost, you know, and noteverybody's maybe open to that.
But being, you know, kind of taking my dynamic,you know, being that shy person and and just
(52:36):
honestly begging truly, and this is an honeststatement here, truly screaming and no one can
hear you, and being on this island by yourselfand just for guidance, mentorship, you know, I
thinking back to, you know, when I was in readymix and, you know, going into you know, think
(52:58):
about, okay, TJ's turning the tides in theSouth Bay.
And, you know, the the company came to me andthey said, hey, TJ.
We want you to start mentoring, you know, theseindividuals that are coming out of, you know,
CAM classes and and college and, you know, asyou know, we'd want you to help them.
We'd want you to mentor them.
And and I started mentoring individuals, andthey would I would be paired up with them for 6
(53:20):
months to a year, and I would help them intheir careers.
And then, you know, kind of fast forward, youknow, I love that environment.
I love it.
I thrive in it.
I because it's something I didn't have growingup.
It being a young adult, kinda trying to find,you know, your niche in this world.
(53:41):
And I think it's extremely important.
I think it's an extremely important cog in thewheel for us as human beings to have some type
of mentorship support system.
Doesn't matter what your title is.
And if I can be remembered, you know, when it'stime to retire and hang up and TJ who, you
(54:05):
know, if I can be remembered by that, then it'slike, you know, that's my legacy.
And that's what I wanna be remembered by.
I wanna be remembered by that.
It's a super cool, very insightful.
Love how you describe that.
Be contagious.
I've never heard that one before.
I love that.
(54:25):
I may I may adopt a version of that.
Please.
So thank you.
I wrote it down too.
I literally wrote it down.
I wanna be contagious.
Oh, I love it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think it applies to every layer.
It applies to every layer.
I mean, whether it's our family, it's it's ifwe're if we're if we're walking through the
park with one of our kids, to somebody that wework with, I think it's an an extremely
(54:50):
important piece that people can thrive in andblossom.
We want them to blossom.
Love the insight.
Well, speaking of insights, I think we should,I think it's time for our last question because
I'm excited for this.
Justin, throw it
at me.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
So, TJ, if you could go back 20 years, that's2,004, what advice would you give yourself?
(55:13):
I would what advice would I give myself?
Honestly, I would I would tell myself, be likea duck and let the water roll off your back.
Don't let in all of that noise, because at theend of the day, there's only so much that you
can control.
And when if you if you care, I'm a person thatcares too much, and it can tear you up.
(55:41):
It can genuinely tear you up inside.
It can it can burn you down.
I would tell myself, be cognitive of what'sgoing on.
Try not to let so much in, and you can still bea caring, understanding person that can lead.
(56:01):
But don't let it come inside of you and tearyou up because you can, you can be thrown off
the course.
And and, honestly, you can shorten the theexpiration date of being an effective manager.
And I think that that's something that isimportant because we want good leadership.
(56:24):
And in, in the construction industry, I don'tcare what industry it is, whether it's a
grocery store or it's a construction industryor to the medical field.
If you take that all in, it's going to tear youup and you got to learn how to let me give you
an example.
Direct report came into me and the world wasburning down one day and the world was burning
(56:49):
down for her and she was having a tough day andI was sitting at my and I I was looking.
I was listening, you know, and she she's likeand you're sitting there smiling.
I said, don't worry about it.
We're gonna figure this out.
Don't worry.
Don't worry.
We're gonna we're gonna process of elimination.
We're gonna figure this out.
And that is something that I've been teachingall of these managers.
(57:10):
So their expiration date gets extended, andthey don't get burnt out.
And that is something that I would, honestly, Iwould I would want to I would I wish I had that
a little bit earlier on because it would'vehelped me.
Luckily, I was able to to to to pull it out ofmyself rather quickly, but, I would say if
(57:31):
that's something that we could help, you know,people coming up in this industry with extend
their runway, help them fill up the buck bucketfaster, learn how to do that.
They're gonna they're gonna thrive and blossomand and really go far in this industry.
Love the insight.
Oh my god.
Yeah.
This has been super insightful for me.
I wrote down a bunch of notes other than thecontagious piece.
(57:54):
This is yeah.
No.
Wow.
What a what a great, insightful conversation.
TJ, if somebody wanted to hear more about, youor, you know, talk to you just more about all
the awesome ideas and and thoughts andleadership, abilities you have, what's the best
way for them to contact you?
Yeah.
No.
Listen.
I you guys, I I appreciate, such an honest,candid conversation.
(58:17):
I appreciate you guys providing a platform todo it on because you guys make it, you guys
make it make a person like me feel warm andbeing able you guys really help open up the
book and share a couple of chapters within, youknow, TJ's upbringing in life.
But, yeah, if if anybody wanted to contact me,they could reach me on on LinkedIn, TJ
(58:39):
O'Connor, or they could find me on Instagram,just Tommy from Up The Hill.
Just a regular guy who builds hot rods afterhours.
Just Tommy from up the hill.
That's awesome.
I will throw in, that stuff as well as, thecompany information in the show notes.
And, do you have last parting words before wesay our goodbyes?
Be contagious, and don't forget that, and don'tlose sight of it.
(59:01):
Be contagious.
Love it.
Love it.
Listeners, I hope, you do become contagious,and I hope that, this has been an impactful
conversation for you because I know for sure ithas been for me and and for Will.
So, until next time.
Adios.
Adios.
Thanks, you guys.
Thanks for listening to Building Scale.
To help us reach even more people, please sharethis episode with a friend, colleague, or on
(59:26):
social media.
Remember, the 3 pillars of scaling a businessare people, process, and technology.
And our mission is to help the AEC industryprotect itself by making technology easy.
So if you think your company's technologypillar could use some improvement, book a call
with us to see how we can help maximize your ITcybersecurity strategy.
(59:51):
Just go to building scale dot net slash help.
And until next time.
Keep building scale.
Scale.
It's and I'll never forget the I when I knewthat the tide had changed was he I remember him
looking at me, and he's like, you know what,TJ?
You're right, man.
He's like, this is my fault.
This is my fault.
You've given me so many opportunities, and thisis on me.
And he's like, I deserve every part of this.
The next part is what he said is he's like, Ihave so much respect for you.
(00:24):
Have you ever wondered how successfularchitecture, engineering, and construction
companies scale their business?
Or have you ever wanted guidance on how to getmore growth, wealth, and freedom from your AEC
company?
Well, then you're in luck.
Hi.
I'm Will Foratt.
And I'm Justin Nagel, and we're your podcasthosts.
We interview successful AEC business leaders tolearn how they use people, process, and
(00:49):
technology to scale their businesses.
So sit back and get ready to learn from theindustry's best.
This is Building scale.
Hey, listeners.
It's Will here.
Our mission is to help the AC industry protectitself by making technology easy.
If you've ever listened to our show, then youknow that the 3 pillars of scaling a business
(01:12):
are people, process, and technology.
So if you suspect technology is your weak link,then book a call with us to see where we can
help maximize your company's IT cybersecuritystrategy.
Just go to buildingscale.net/health.
Today's guest is TJ O'Connor, general managerof SYNNEX.
(01:34):
TJ has various roles throughout his career,including tile contractor, operations manager,
plant manager, area manager, materialsmanagement, and human resources.
Hint.
Hint.
You may hear a hair about management today justbased on all of your titles that you've held.
For our listeners, it's definitely gonna bemanagement leadership heavy today.
And, CEMEX is a key player in the constructionof materials, specializing in ready mix and
(01:58):
trucking services, providing essentialsolutions for building projects.
TJ, we're really excited to hear about yourleadership journey.
When we first talked, I was, in awe in the inthe first conversation we had.
So, really excited about this.
And with all that said, welcome to the show.
Yeah.
No.
You guys, thank you so much for for giving mean opportunity, and I I appreciate, just being
(02:22):
able to to have these casual conversations,especially with you, Justin and Will, like we
have in the past.
And, being able to just have a platform to talkabout, you know, how I started in this industry
with, you know, little to no guidance to end upbeing a general manager for a major key player
in the construction industry, you know,navigating from, you know, California to, you
(02:44):
know, the Midwest all the way out to Florida.
So it's it's good stuff and really, reallyhappy to be here.
Yeah.
No.
Let's let's dive into that.
Let's talk a little bit about your originstory, how how it all actually came about, and,
you know, talk about the company as well.
Yeah.
No.
Absolutely.
So, you know, I I was thinking back, you know,to, you know, to my childhood, and I remember,
(03:07):
like, kinda first thinking about in elementaryschool.
God, what does TJ wanna do?
I wanna become a farmer.
You know, because I I I come from a long listof farmers.
Wow.
Farmers.
Okay.
Yeah.
So so, you know, my, you know, my greatgrandparents, you know, they they were they
were true farmers, in in in California, andspecifically in the Napa Valley.
(03:30):
And, you know, kinda fast forwarding, you know,I wanted to be a farmer.
And I remember going to you know, there was aschool project, and I and I brought home the
the the paper and and and tell my dad about it.
You know, I was just a kid.
And, my dad was so disappointed because he, youknow, he grew up in that environment, and he
knew what it was like.
(03:50):
So, you know, my I I come from a truckingfamily.
You know, my dad was a single parent with 4kids.
I was the youngest.
And, you know, he was hauling powder andaggregates for ready mix, companies up in the
up in Northern California.
And so, you know, I as I grew up, you know, asa teenager, you know, I was changing oil,
(04:13):
servicing trucks.
You know?
And then, you know, as as you progress throughthat, you know, then I wanna become a police
officer.
And and then I I figured, shoot.
I can make just as much money, probably moremoney, going into the construction field set in
tile.
And, you know, thinking about, you know, theSan Francisco Bay Area and and and and
(04:36):
pinpointing all those money corridors, youknow, I became a tile contractor.
And, you know, I did a lot of high profilejobs, you know, for famous people.
Stuff was in magazines like Better Homes, youknow, and Garden.
And, you know, there was this this outcome of,you know, every time you'd finish a job, you
(04:59):
always heard, oh my god.
This is so beautiful.
This is so beautiful.
And and, you know, I really honed in on mycraftsmanship, really just tried to do things
that were, you know, that people would neverforget.
Whether it was a whether it was a, a storefrontto a steam shower at at someone's mansion, you
(05:21):
know, I did stuff for, you know, Trey Trey Coolfrom Green Day, Ricky Henderson, Laurel Bergman
from 60 Minutes.
So, yeah, I was that's who I was navigatingwith in my career.
So I I did that for 10 years, up until, oeight, you know, when things got a little bit
sideways on us in the economy.
And, you know, a lot of us in the constructionindustry, had to go look for something
(05:46):
different to do.
And, you know, in my back pocket, you know, I Igrew up in that trucking family.
And so I I started working for a truckingcompany, you know, dispatching customer
service.
And, I kinda worked my way through the rankswhere I got, you know, picked up by a big
player in the market, US Concrete, and, wasmanaging materials, for for for 19 barrier
(06:10):
ready mix plants.
And then I raised my hand to become a plantmanager.
And that is my progression just started goingstraight up from there very, very quickly.
And went from, you know, plant manager to areamanager, you know, navigating San Francisco
Redwood City down to the South Bay, San Jose,you know, going to ops manager and then
(06:38):
navigating into, you know, over the past 17, 18years going into a general manager position
work working for Semex.
And, I will tell you, as as a young adult, I Iwas lost.
I I didn't have a lot of support.
I didn't know what I was doing.
And, you know, and then, you know, my mainfocus today is, you know, in this role is
(07:03):
honestly helping that next generation, that'sthat's coming into this industry.
Yeah.
I I remember when we talked about thisoriginally, and you you talked about,
obviously, your upbringing and, like, how thatimpacted things.
Obviously, being the tile, like, you know, bigbig bad tile contractor in the bay,
effectively, and then trying to find your placeagain.
(07:25):
Right?
Like and that's that's a lot a lot comes withthat.
A lot of, obviously, emotions, you know,strength that has to come out of that, all
these things.
So, the thing that I've I've found with you waswas very much, you know, leading other people
that maybe have similar thoughts, similarupbringings, things like that, where you have
just really found a way to like, hey, like, youcan do great things.
(07:48):
And I, you know, I
want to help you
get there with very much, what we just was veryelectrifying after we had our first
conversation.
So, when I think about that, like, when, likehow do you realize that to be true?
Like how do you get to become a good leader inthat regard?
How do you lead, you know, other people thatcame from similar places to you to to get the
(08:12):
best out of them?
How do you how have you done that?
How have you found that to to be your littlemagic superpower?
So so for for myself, there I got a couplecompounding contributors, which which I'd like
to share with you guys.
And it's it's truly, you know, you think about,my upbringing.
You know, my my dad was a good dad.
(08:33):
Okay?
But, you know, you never heard, hey.
You did a great job.
Okay.
So that you carry that through life.
You just do.
That's that's, you know, one of the scars, youknow, I think that all of us, you know, we all
have scars growing up whether big or small.
And that was one of my scars.
And I and and so as I navigated in my career, Ialways looked for that that pat on the back.
(09:02):
So whether it was set and tile, playing music,playing sold out clubs in the Bay Area, up in
Sacramento, all over, you know, to to buildingcars and being on the covers of magazines.
I I always look for, you know, that, oh my god.
It's beautiful.
Okay?
(09:22):
So so to answer your question, you know, whatdid I do?
Well, I honestly, you know, I I when I cameinto this industry, I I tried to, honestly, I
tried to blend in.
I I tried to I tried to, be relatable to theother person on on the other side of the table.
(09:43):
So so, like, for example, you know, when I wason the ready mix side, as a as an area manager,
you know, for the first time in 25 years, theyhad never seen a manager pick up a broom and
shovel and go work side by side, you know, withwith laborers in the yard.
And and that was kind of that that, you know,the beginning of the icebreaker.
(10:04):
And so I tried to figure out, okay, how how canI be genuine?
I wanna be genuine.
I wanna be light.
What kind of effect can I have as a leader toget get people to follow me?
1st and foremost, it was trust.
It was being able to be relatable.
So so, like, for example, you know, guys wouldsay, hey.
(10:27):
When we first saw you, your very first dayhere, man, we were really scared of you
because, you know, you're this big tall guy.
You're a big strapper.
You're covered in tattoos.
You know?
So, again, for for the for everybody on the youknow, that's watching here, you know, even down
to the hands, it it was it was being relatable.
You know?
It was, wow.
(10:47):
This guy left his title at the door, and hehe's side by side with us even though he's
leading us.
So that was something I really tried to triedto hone in on was was trust, being relatable.
Wait.
Time time out time out for a second.
Okay.
We need the backstory.
Okay?
Because I think the back story is missingbecause you were I'm gonna say it.
(11:09):
You were handed a shit show.
Okay?
From my understanding, you were essentiallygiven the lowest morale region, right, to go
manage as, like, out of all the all thelocations, this was the lowest morale Yeah.
Location.
Give us the backstory there.
(11:30):
Yeah.
Start there.
I think this is super crucial and important tohelp people understand the huge turnaround that
happened because you walked in the door.
Okay?
Yeah.
I think it gives a lot of context as to whythis is important.
Yeah.
So so originally, when I raised my hand to bea, you know, a plant manager, I I was covering
(11:51):
Redwood City in South San Francisco.
Those were and they were very strategic in theBay Area, and it was a good crew.
And I was there for 3 months.
And, you know, one thing that people will say,you know, just kind of on the other side is,
you know, who's TJ?
Oh my god.
That guy is totally nice.
He's so nice.
And, you know, after 3 months, I I remembergetting a call, from the VPGM at the time, and
(12:16):
and he said, hey.
We're gonna relocate you down to the South Bayfor ready mixed plants.
We want you to we want you to take it over.
And I'm like, wow.
Wow.
Okay.
Cool.
I mean, I mean, it was a bigger it was the potjust got much bigger.
And and then people started calling me and andand, you know, through once they heard that I
was gonna be real relocated down there, and I'mlike, why are they sending TJ to the snake pit?
(12:40):
The snake I mean, look at this is what I washearing from, you know, from from batch guys
and and plant operators, operating engineers.
They're like, why are they sending TJ to thesnake pit?
And because they knew that I was honestlyprobably too nice, and they they probably
didn't think I was gonna survive it.
And so, you know, I'm excited.
I mean, just excited just for the opportunity.
(13:01):
And, I remember my my very first day, andagain, you're kinda referencing, you know, guys
seeing me walk across the yard at the StocktonAvenue plant.
And, I remember walking in into to the breakroom to get to the office.
Again, 1st day, 1st hour on the job, you know,love, love stock the Stockton Avenue plant.
(13:25):
And and and I walked in and there was this bigstrapper.
I mean, this I mean, this guy was probably myheight.
I'm 66, but he was probably a good £75.
He was he was ripped.
I mean, this guy worked out.
He was probably 10 years older than me, and hehad, like, wolf eyes.
I mean, he was looking at me like like like hewanted to fight me.
Okay.
(13:45):
And this is my very first exposure.
There was no introduction.
There was no, hey.
This is good.
This is gonna be the new area manager.
This is TJ O'Connor.
It was none of that.
I walk in.
This guy's looking at me like he wants to to tofight me.
He reaches into his mouth, pulls out a big wadof chew, throws it on the window, and says,
(14:06):
what are you gonna do about it?
And so
That's a statement right there.
Jeez.
Okay.
So lowest morale in 25 years.
Okay.
It was a revolving door of managers.
They they had managers that that had no commonsense in in those prior roles.
(14:29):
Kind of giving you some of that backstory.
So so no common sense.
Headhunters, guys hiding in the in theliterally hiding in the bushes with a camera to
jump out and say, gotcha.
I got you without your hard hat on and take apicture and suspend them.
These guys were just treated terribly asemployees.
(14:51):
If you think about what these got again, nocommon sense.
And so so okay.
Day 1, you know, that was my very firstexposure.
His name was Mark.
And, so Mark was
the leader of the welcome wagon at Snake Pit.
He was.
Ironically enough, I I still hear from Mark, tothis day, and he'll leave me joke messages on
(15:17):
my on my phone, you know, make it feel likemaking fun of managers.
You know?
Because he, you know, we have some we ended upactually being very close friends.
So there was a day 1, I'm looking straight up,and it's Mount Everest.
It's literally Mount Everest.
There is no support.
Good luck, TJ.
(15:38):
Hope you survive it.
And what I my approach was I need to get theseguys to trust me.
They they need to know that I am ultraunderstanding.
I've got common sense.
I'm gonna what's right is right.
What's wrong is wrong.
And I will go I will go to the mat at any levelwithin the organization because if I if I have
(16:04):
conviction and I've, you know, if what's rightis right and what's wrong is wrong, and let's
have some common sense and let's have a let'shave a conversation about that and talk through
that.
And, unfortunately, that may have been a youknow, some of my, you know, challenges in my
growing is because I am willing to challenge.
I will challenge whether it's a, you know,whether it's a it's it's someone in my saying
(16:29):
you know, in a general manager or even aboveme.
And I I'm not proud to say that.
I'm not proud of that.
But but you gotta remember the employee factor,the employee part of this and and and the
treatment.
So trust, common sense, willing to work withsomebody.
Hey, man.
(16:49):
Don't forget your hard hat.
Hey, man.
Don't forget your gloves.
Instead of just going right and chopping thisguy's head off.
And it took literally 6 months from day 1 tothe 6 month mark.
And I'll never forget, VPGM at the time, JeffDavis.
(17:10):
This guy was just such a wonderful guy, but hewas a slam your hand down on the fist type of
manager.
He was I mean, he was this is how we're gonnado things.
I mean, he but he was good.
He was effective.
And I'll never forget, he came across theStockton Avenue Street, you know, because the
corporate office was on Stockton Avenue.
Directly across the street was plant 1.
(17:31):
It was the number one plant, part of thebackbone for for this ready mix company.
And, you know, he came across the streetlaughing, you know, kinda chuckling, had a big
smile on his face.
And you you never knew what you were gonna getwith this guy.
He was either you know, he might send you downthe river.
And he came across the street laughing, and hesaid he said, TJ, I gotta hand it to you.
You did it.
(17:51):
And I'm like and I was, you know, I was got alittle naive at the time.
My you know, I'm like, did what?
You know?
And he's like, you were the first manager in 25years to effectively change the morale to the
highest it's ever been in the South Bay to thepoint where we're getting drivers calling this
(18:12):
office saying, please don't move this managerto another region.
You had union leaders doing the same thing.
Guys that Wow.
Off, man.
These these union leaders were and that was thesame thing too.
Not only did I have to get the drivers buy in,get their trust, we're talking 75 Teamster
(18:33):
drivers, 10 operating engineers for for local3, and then you also have the union side.
You had union leaders that I had to go do thesame thing with, common sense, rebuilding
trust.
And even those union leaders, I mean, some ofthose guys were they were they were tough.
They were tough guys, and they've been around,you know, 30 plus years.
(18:55):
You know?
And they knew all of the previous skeletons inthe closet, and they were doing the same thing.
They were calling in to upper managementsaying, hey, man.
This guy this guy's great.
And you know me, I'm I'm such a shy youwouldn't well, I don't know.
You know, again, just kind of being transparentwith you guys.
I mean, listen.
(19:15):
I am ultra shy.
I'm I've, you know, I've got a layer of beingintroverted.
It takes an awful lot for me to come throughthe door and turn on that switch.
If I'm comfortable with you, you will get this.
You will get this persona.
So so for me going into that environment,again, looking at Mount Everest in front of me,
(19:39):
I really had to dig deep within myself, work onthis trust, rebuilding, reestablishing
relationships that were it was really, reallydeep.
And, goddamn it.
I'm proud to say that I'm the one who did
it.
That's awesome.
Oh my god.
Yeah.
Hey.
I did have a question, because you said it.
(20:00):
So lowest morale to basically one of thehighest morale, if not the highest in the
entire company.
Right?
Yeah.
How do you measure morale?
Right?
I think this is something that's superimportant to kinda hear or and understand
because sometimes it's a gut check.
Right?
I I I've done sometimes it's just asking aquestion, but how do you measure morale?
What are the what are the ways that you canmeasure morale?
(20:23):
So so, you know, you know, kinda looking at thelooking at that South Bay as an example, you'd
come in and there would be trash thrown on theground, dirty countertops, not a lot of pride
in now think think about think about, you know,the dynamics of of the workday for for an
operating engineer Teamster in that environmentup in the top 1% pay scale of the nation.
(20:48):
Okay?
So high pay scale.
And you come in, things are filthy.
There's not a lot of pride.
You you if you walk through the yard again,those first, like, month, you you would walk
through the yard.
Guys would literally roll down their window,throw trash out right right there in front of
you.
I mean, right there in front of you, prettymuch the middle finger, okay, on blast.
(21:09):
And so for me, I'm like, okay.
And I would look around.
I'm like, man, bathroom is junky.
No one's no one no one's reinvested into thebathroom.
No one has reinvested into their break room.
And now remember, these guys are are 10, 12, 13hour days on the clock driving ready mixed
(21:31):
truck.
So they're spending half of their day, with thecompany.
Okay.
What can I do to show them that I care?
And so I started by when I would see trash onthe ground, you know, you'd have all the trucks
staged in the yard or, you know, 5 AM, lightsare on, you know, the plants humming, you know,
(21:52):
production.
And I would let them see me pick up the trash.
I wasn't better than anybody else.
And that that was something that, you know, Itried to let them see me do that.
Okay?
Then I started reinvesting into, you know, theinfrastructure, you know, the break rooms or
bathrooms, saying thank you.
(22:12):
Hey, man.
I really appreciate what you guys did this weekindividually or also in a group setting.
So weekly tailgate safety meetings, monthlysafety meetings.
I really appreciate what you guys have done.
I know that you got you know, so so showingthat record being genuine too, like, genuine,
like, heart on my a heart on my sleeve.
That's the type of guy I am.
(22:34):
And and and and that you could start to see themorale change.
You could then you would start to see guys callout other guys.
Hey, man.
Wipe down the countertop.
You just spilled coffee.
Wipe clean it up.
So so then the the sense of pride started topick up in that 6 month window, and and you
would effectively start to see morale change.
(22:54):
Hey.
We're looking for volunteers on Saturday.
Boom.
Everyone was volunteering.
You got to the point where guys would would doanything for you because you were doing
anything for them.
And and you went from, you know, Mark throwingthe chew on the window to guys calling out,
hey, man.
Don't spit your sunflower seeds, you know, onthe floor or in the sink.
(23:18):
Clean it up.
Guys were guys were police they were policingeach other.
Now you're always gonna have that that that 5%within within the workforce, okay, that are
gonna boo the cure for cancer.
Okay?
You're all you're gonna have that, I think,anywhere you go.
But if I can get the other 95% and we're allimagine a line.
(23:39):
Okay.
Instead of the pyramid where TJ's at the top ofthe pyramid leading, I always took the straight
line approach where all of us are on a straightline together, and we're all pushing that ball
together.
No one's better than someone else.
And that was kind of that buy in.
So and so answering your question, Will, I Ithink that I did the a few of those things, and
(24:01):
I was consistent as a manager that built themorale.
So then then now you walk into a facility thatis getting awards for being clean,
environmentally.
Guys are policing each other.
Guys are, volunteering for stuff that theynormally wouldn't have done, you know, 6 months
(24:21):
ago.
And and that was that was the clock.
That was literally the clock of progression tosee it.
I love hearing how you describe, like, thebefore and the after.
Because morale, I think it's very hard tomeasure.
But you but you get but you get the sense of itbased on what called symptoms.
Right?
You can't see the disease.
(24:42):
We can see the symptoms.
If it's bad morale, I'll call it a disease.
You can see the symptoms of it.
And same thing with good morale.
And if you're somewhere in between, right,between those those two places, it's really
hard to see progress in the middle.
But you could see it's like watching paint dry.
No one is wet.
You know one is dry.
(25:03):
The in between is the hard part and for you,you know, and seeing if there's actual
progress.
So Yeah.
Was there any one point outside of, obviously,your VPGM, going to you, was there any large
sort of shift or change, like, in a you know,let's say the next day or something like that,
(25:25):
all of a sudden you felt like, oh, we are nowin a very different place, or was it or was it
very gradual?
Yeah.
Honestly, I I I can tell you when and where, ithappened.
And and and I wanna use Mark as an example.
So think about introduction to Mark day 1 inthe South Bay.
(25:47):
Okay?
To Mark, Mark was habitually late.
He was always 5, 10 minutes late.
Okay.
He was.
That's just who he was.
And he lived, like, 15 minutes away.
He he he was probably the guy that lived theclosest to the plant.
Okay?
He'd been with the company 25 plus years.
(26:09):
No respect for management whatsoever.
And Mark was so I I wanna use Mark as anexample.
I remember the day that, you know, I would onceonce the relationship was established with the
drivers and and and the union leaders, And Iwould I would call them, and I'm like, hey.
I I gotta write up Mark because, man, thisguy's late, and he's on the radar with
(26:33):
dispatch.
And I I'm like, there's nothing I can do here.
Like, I I I I've given this guy so manyopportunities.
You know, I'm willing to do that.
Listen.
We don't have to do anything on paper.
Again, common sense.
Let's try to work through it together as ateam.
Instead of being a hammer, give a guy give givean employee an opportunity to to get better or
(26:56):
help them.
So I'll never forget, I brought Mark in, and wewere sitting in my office.
I I said, hey, Mark.
I I gotta I gotta I gotta write you up.
I gotta give you a, you know, a a suspension.
Because we had already started, you know, thethe the verbal warning, the written warning.
Now it was at, like, the one day suspensionmark.
And, you know, and and again, you know, Markwas a big scary dude.
(27:20):
I mean, he was a big scary guy, you know.
It's and I'll never forget the I when I knewthat the tide had changed was he I remember him
looking at me, and he's like, you know what,TJ?
You're right, man.
He's like, this is my fault.
This is my fault.
You've given me so many opportunities, and thisis on me.
And he's like, I deserve every part of this.
(27:40):
The next part is what he said is he's like, Ihave so much respect for you.
Bingo.
I have so much and I'm trying not to beemotional right now because you you think about
those things in in an employee's life.
Again, you may you think about they're spendinghalf of their they're spending call it, 12
hours a day with you, 10 to 12 hours a day atwork with you.
And, you know, you're you're breaking breadwith these people.
(28:01):
You're you you have a lot of conversationswith, you know, with with these employees.
And, when he said that, I knew deep down insidethat that was the pinnacle moment because he
was one of those voices.
Remember, seniority list, he was like number 2on the seniority list.
(28:21):
The other guy was a guy named Rick Brackett andanother strong strong voice in that call it
that community of of ready mixed drivers.
And I knew once I had their trust, and and theysaid, it's because we respect you.
I knew that I was able I knew that I had donesomething good.
Okay.
So if there's anything to take away from this,the driver for morale, right, you measured
(28:49):
morale.
The driver for morale was the building trustaspect, but it was to gain trust and also
respect of, essentially, you called them yourpeers, right?
Would that be fair to say?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, what we've seen, and this is, in effect,servant leadership.
(29:13):
Right?
Where when you look at leadership or rolestructures, The one person that's at the top,
the reality and then everyone's kind ofunderneath.
The reality is it gets flipped.
What you essentially did is you turned thepyramid upside down, and all your employees are
(29:35):
at the top, and you're essentially saying, whatcan I do for you?
Yes.
How can I help you?
How can I help you?
So so think about the dynamic of, you know, ofa driver.
And and I wanna go back.
Let's go let's go back 40 years.
Okay?
I'll use my dad as an example.
And, you know, like, my dad was well respected,call it in the trucking community.
(30:01):
You know, he had prima donna Peter Belts.
I mean, they were, you know, beautiful, trucks.
I mean, I mean, even guys today, they'llthey'll when I cross paths with them, they'll
they'll make jokes, not jokes, but they'll say,I remember your dad or your brother on the side
of the road.
They'd be polishing the tanks on the truck.
You know?
Just so the truck's beautiful.
There was a reputation there.
There was a you know, so so think so so then Ithink about, like, like, my very first TJ goes
(30:27):
to a trucking construction job, and it was agrinding paving job.
I'll never forget, Clayton Road about 1 o'clockin the morning in Concord, California.
And this this this old timer, who was part ofthe, paving crew.
This guy got in my face and was screaming atthe top of his lungs, screaming where the
(30:48):
truck's at.
Okay?
These drivers got the same treatment 40 yearsago to today.
2024, they go to a construction job site, andthere's some cowboy who wants to, you know,
posture and and try to make these guys feelstupid.
And it's a it's a it's a terrible it's aterrible problem in this industry that we have.
(31:17):
Okay?
So you take that dynamic.
You know that.
And and I know inside I think about my dad, andI wouldn't I wouldn't want my dad treated that
way.
So I made damn sure that I didn't treat thoseguys out.
And that and and it was legit.
It was honest.
It was heartfelt conversations.
(31:37):
It was genuine respect for the position thatthey held, the experience that they had.
I'll be honest with you.
A lot of these guys could could run circlesaround the project managers because of their
knowledge.
Didn't matter that they drove a truck.
They had industry knowledge.
(31:58):
And that's the other that's the other facet tooI I wanna bring up is we didn't do them any
justice by not inviting them to the table fortheir input.
And I gave them a platform to come to thetable, and that's something I'm proud of
because that's what helped me in my journey day1 in the South Bay.
(32:18):
I gave them an opportunity to come to thetable, and I wanted their ideas.
I wanted their input because it's a Travis.
So so think about this.
Think about a company that's gonna buy 30 brandnew, Kenworths or Peterbilt Mack Trucks, you
name it.
Pick any flavor that you that you want thebest.
And you got a bunch of guys in a room speckingout a truck that they're gonna go buy 30.
(32:42):
They're gonna go spend 1,000,000 of dollars on.
Okay?
They're get they're the ones who are gonna getthe the cool jacket, maybe the the little
miniature truck model that they can put ontheir shelf.
Okay?
You guys know that.
Right?
Okay.
Oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah.
Did anybody invite
super into into construction.
Like, this is, like, the theme for hisbirthday, my 2 year old son.
So, yes, I'm totally digging this right now.
(33:05):
Okay.
Did anybody invite that driver to the room?
Did anybody get his input?
When we spec the trucks, did we make sure thatthe back of the cab had the air ride shocks on
it?
Because I'll tell you what, I've seen thathappen where they weren't ordered, and now next
thing they look, guys complaining about hisback hurt.
They're like, you guys spent all this money,and you didn't put the $300 shock on it?
(33:28):
That's a travesty in our industry where wedon't happen to the knowledge that's right
there in front of us.
So so for me, you know, as a manager, as as aas a as a cog in the wheel for for for whatever
company I'm I'm working for, first andforemost, the company is is is my focus.
(33:49):
I will follow policy and procedure to a team.
I'm proud to say that I can do that.
I will do that.
I will challenge, but I will make sure that theright people are in the room.
I will make damn sure that the right people arein the room.
So we are making decisions.
We're making them feel like they are a part ofthis company because they're in it.
There is such an important part of the wheel.
(34:10):
It isn't just a bunch of executives in a, in aroom, you know, patting each other on the back
for the decisions that they made.
They wouldn't be there if it wasn't for thatother side of the fence.
Right?
And that's how I feel.
And I and I have strong convictions about that.
And I think that's probably maybe sometimes whyI get a little bit in trouble because I am
mouthy.
I can be mouthy when I, you know, when it whenit comes to when it comes to a challenge,
(34:33):
because I have a lot of conviction there.
You know?
I I, honestly, I think about my dad.
I think about I think about my dad, and I Ithink as I've progressed through my career, my
dad, you know, before he passed away, you know,we would have conversations.
I'd be driving home.
And, you know, he lived in in Oregon at thetime, you know, before he passed away.
And he always got a kick out of he's like, I II can't believe you're now you're telling them
(35:00):
what to do, where it was always the other wayaround.
And and and and I know he always got tickledabout that, but I always did it on the up and
up.
I always always I always wanted to make surethat that I was accurate in in my information.
So if I was gonna go challenge something, if Iwas gonna go put my neck on the line and
challenge, you know, which you gotta be carefulof.
(35:20):
Sometimes people say, don't send it, TJ.
Don't send it.
Send.
Love TJ.
That's that's a good question though.
Like, so, obviously, you have an industry thatthinks away.
They have a mindset that's already in place.
It's been that way for 40 however, longer thanthat maybe, but 40 plus years.
(35:41):
Right?
Mhmm.
You're coming in and you're saying like, weneed to do things differently.
Like like in the people that, are underneath myleadership and management, we are going to do
things differently.
We are gonna be more of this line or reversepyramid, however you wanna, you know,
illustrate that out.
How how do you push that up, right?
Like, how how do you how do you lead thoseabove you to come to the same realization of
(36:06):
like, hey, like that driver or drivers or groupof drivers should be in a room when you're
deciding on buying new trucks.
Like, it like, that seems like common sense.
Right?
Like, the person that's using the tool shouldhave at least somewhat input on which tool is
chosen.
Obviously, there are other aspects to businessthat go to things, but, like, how how do you
(36:28):
push it up?
Right?
Obviously, you say, I'm I'll I'll push send.
I'll push send.
But, like, there's ways to do that that, have,impact, and there's ways to do that that get
you on your ass.
Right?
Like, that's effectively what can happen.
So how do you navigate that?
Like, hey, I'm going to bat for my guys, butI'm I'm not I'm not putting myself in a
(36:50):
position where it's like, tree that, like, I'mgonna get arrested.
Like, there's not, like, there's not an Right.
There's not a way around this, even though I'mdoing the thing I think is right.
Yeah.
So so there's a fine line there.
You know?
For for
for me,
I have the ultimate most utmost respect for forthe chain of command.
(37:13):
I I do.
I mean, I, you know, you know, I I do, Youknow?
And, and when it comes to when it comes toscenarios like that, you know, I think that it
really it's up it's up to the individual who'spart let's say, it's it's part of that circle
that says, hey, you guys.
I I really think that we should include let'shey.
(37:34):
Let's include, you know, maybe someone senioron the list from the driver pool.
Let's let's get some input there.
And and and honestly honestly, I think if youhave someone in the room that is looking out
that way, the rest of the rest of the people inthat circle will say, hey.
You know, you're you're right.
I wasn't even thinking of that.
(37:54):
So I think I think sometimes, you know, I thinkthe circle loses sight of of, you know, the
outcome.
Because remember, that guy's gonna be in thattruck for 10 or 12 hours a day, go bouncing
around, whether it's on a construction site oror, you know, going down the freeway.
And I think they just lose sight of it.
And it just takes somebody in in the room tosay and say, raise their hand and say, hey.
(38:17):
Listen.
I I let's let's ball.
Let's let's bring in, you know, David, and andlet's get his input on this and see what he
thinks.
As soon as you have someone that does that,it's usually pretty welcomed.
I have not encountered a situation where it hasgone sour, where someone has said, no, that's
dumb.
Like, let's not do that.
It's always been well invited, but it'simportant that there's somebody in the room
(38:40):
that just does raise their hand and say, hey.
Let's let's let's bring in, you know, driver aand get their input on this.
So you had at least some engagement from peopleeven if it was negative, but you need that
engagement.
If there's no engagement, I would I wouldimagine that's actually a lot harder if it if
it's sort of apathy versus, versus negativeengagement can be turned around.
(39:06):
Right?
Because, it's emotional.
There's an emotional aspect to it.
And that means that at least someone is willingto communicate with you.
No communications, in my opinion, is way worsebecause then you're in limbo land and
Yeah.
Mhmm.
Getting someone to be intrinsically motivatedto get to the other side of where you're trying
to steer the ship.
Mhmm.
It's really hard to have someone on board ifthey're like, I'm not doing anything.
(39:30):
Like, I'm not I'm not gonna engage.
I'm not gonna communicate.
I'm not going to.
Okay.
Did you have situations like that?
I have.
I've experienced that.
I've I've I in in my career, I have definitelyexperienced that.
And, you know, sometimes, you know, when youtake when you take, an individual like myself
who who is ultra passionate, who who does thinkabout, you know, the positives and negatives,
(39:57):
the impacts on whether it's, you know, for thecompany or or the employee perspective, you
know, potential outcomes there.
Yeah.
It it it can't there there can be a layer offrustration.
But I think as a as whether if you're if you'rein a leadership role, I think that you you need
(40:19):
to raise your hand.
You need to you need to challenge the statusquo.
And and even if that even if that challenge isis little, hey.
What do you guys think about this?
Let's bring in so and so.
And, you know, because because I know the otherend of this the spectrum.
So for example, let's just say let's let's takethat truck that didn't have the air ride on the
(40:42):
back of the cab.
Guess what?
That guy ended up getting a, an injury, aworkers' comp claim.
Now you got a now you've got lost time.
Good job, leaders.
Good job for listening in.
All of a sudden, that $300 doesn't sound somuch.
Yeah.
Now you're talking engaged.
100 of 1,000 of dollars and, you know,potentially.
(41:04):
And so so I I think it's important, you know.
It's weird.
I, you know, I've been in this industry, what,17, 18 years now.
And and, you know, I think the industry ischanging.
It's it's changing.
You have a new way.
So first off, you don't have a lot of peopleknocking on the door to go drive trucking.
That's the first facet.
(41:25):
You know, we've seen it on the news.
It's a it's a nationwide problem.
Okay?
Now that generation that we are getting, youhave to be able to adapt quickly because you're
at the mercy.
Now you have a generation that says, hey.
I don't wanna work 10, 12 hours a day.
(41:45):
I wanna work 8 and a half, 9.
And you have to find ways to as, you know, inmy opinion, you have to find ways to be
accommodating because we need them.
We need them.
It's it's an industry that has, unfortunately,has been, honestly, neglected.
(42:06):
It's been neglected.
I mean, it's it's it's been neglected in many,many ways.
And and, unfortunately, you know, if you takelet's just take a one truck owner operator.
You know?
Let's let's call it let's call it TJ's dad1968.
He's got one truck.
You know, he's a one truck operator.
He has a lot of operating costs the year 2024.
(42:30):
His insurance is through the roof.
His repair, repair and maintenance tires isthrough the roof.
But what's the first cut that we want to do?
Well, we wanna cut the rate.
We wanna, we wanna, we wanna cut the rate.
So the driver doesn't make as much because ithelps our bottom line.
Hey, I get all that, but don't forget that thisguy has high operating costs When you want him
(42:56):
to move material from origin to destination,there's a cost involved.
You know, there just is.
So so I I think the dynamic there is, you know,we we just us in this industry have to be aware
of that.
We have to keep it right there in front of us.
It has to be at the Forefront as part of, youknow, the the process.
(43:18):
And, you know, I I can say I can honestly say,you know, over the past couple of years, I can
say that the industry from what I've seen isadapting rather quickly.
They are embracing these changes.
They are embracing this this, you know, it's adifferent truck driver today than it was 30
(43:39):
years ago.
Let alone 20 years ago.
And but we are adapting.
We're we're figuring it out.
And and it's not all doom and gloom.
I mean, really, really, you know, when you haveengagement with these employees today in in,
you know, 2024, it is positive.
It's very, very positive.
It's not there's not a lot of negativity there.
(44:01):
So it there is a breath of fresh air there aswell.
You mentioned being introverted earlier.
You said Yeah.
I am very interested.
And when you told me this, I was like, well,that doesn't add up.
Like, that doesn't that you know, ourinteractions don't equate to this.
And then you had also told me, hey.
Like, I had spoken in front of, like, 600people, and I'm like, well, that doesn't Yeah.
Again, this there's something missing here.
(44:22):
But you had mentioned, you get you flip theswitch.
Right?
It takes it takes Yeah.
It takes, some doing, but, like, you can flipthe switch.
Yeah.
How how does that work?
How how do you how do you take the I am thisway, but for this role or for this, situation,
I need to be this way.
How do you how do you make that happen?
What's what's your process?
(44:43):
My process is, it's so funny.
I make myself I'll I'll make myself sick.
I literally will.
I I will make myself sick to my stomach.
You know, because I'm a I'm an overthinker.
I overthink.
I dwell, I dwell on things.
I dwell on on outcomes that maybe never evenhappen.
(45:04):
Okay.
Okay.
So we gotta be realistic here.
Let's be honest.
Okay.
So that's that does happen to me.
So, I from for for me, I'll use the the LasVegas experience.
Working on a project with some guys across theUnited States that, you know, through the
(45:28):
NRMCA, it was a developing industry leaderprogram that I got nominated to.
And, you know, you get paired up with guys thatare in similar roles, and you have to do a
presentation, at at the center MCA convention.
And oh my god, man.
I'm I'm so shy.
(45:48):
I really am.
I I I'm I'm very shy, And I'm like, you want meto go speak in front of 600 people?
Like, what?
Like, but I had to perform.
I I don't here's the thing.
I don't wanna let you down.
I don't wanna let you down.
I want you to be proud of me at the end of theday.
(46:10):
I do.
And that's an honest statement.
That's an honest accurate feeling that I have.
And so so when I'm in that process so forexample, let's say if if I have a rotation
where I I cover multiple facilities.
So there may be a 3 week period where maybe afacility hasn't seen me.
(46:31):
And as I approach that gate, the butterfliesare hitting.
I roll through the gate.
The butterflies are, whoop, going up.
I park.
I get out.
I put on my hard hat, all my PPE.
And as soon as I touch that door, boom, lightswitch comes on, and it's what you're seeing
right now.
And it's I I don't the problem is and it'sgetting worse as I get older.
(46:55):
The introvertedness is getting worse.
And I but but here's the thing.
I'm I recognize it.
I and I don't want it to I don't want it to bea roadblock for for myself, for friendship, for
my career.
So so I I work through it.
I learned something, I I I was speaking with acoach, a career coach, that I got paired up
(47:22):
with, and I've been working with thisindividual for the past 6 months.
And, and something, you know, she said, shesaid, what do you, what do you want to, what do
you, what do you want to be remembered for?
Like, what's your legacy legacy?
What is your legacy?
And, and I told her, I I wanna be I wanna beremembered for for helping people out.
(47:45):
I wanna be remembered for if I can helpsomebody blossom in their career at any layer
at any layer within the organization, I'll thatwill make me feel so good.
Okay.
So that's one side of the coin.
Okay?
What's the other side?
I wanna be contagious.
(48:05):
I want I want people.
I want people.
Word.
Uh-huh.
Yeah.
I want people to feel I want people to feelgood.
I want people to feel inspired by a shortconversation, a long conversation that I just
had with them.
And I I want them to feel I want them to beable to feel, like, there's no roadblocks in
(48:27):
the way.
And if I can if I can achieve that in mycareer, okay, recognizing that I have I'm I'm
not gonna call it a problem.
But I recognize that I I I am, I I'm extremelyintroverted.
I'm extremely shy.
And if I can help somebody navigate thosewaters in their career and help them blossom,
(48:50):
then that makes me that fills the cup.
That fills the cup of enjoyment, every day thatthat I that I get out and I my feet hit hit the
floor from getting out of bed.
And I had a I had a conversation yesterday withan individual out in Florida.
They, she reached out to me looking for careeradvice.
(49:12):
You know, again, being an effective leader.
Okay?
Leave the title at the door.
And and these people would tell me they're theyyou know, when I would go there and visit them,
they would be like, you're the only person thatever comes up and talks to us.
You're the only person that's ever nice to us.
You know?
Like, when when, you know, when there's thesemeetings, and I'm like and and and it's
honestly, it's just like, I'm just being who Iam.
I I I want them to feel good about about beingable to approach, doesn't matter the title,
(49:38):
being being approachable.
Like, hey.
I've got a problem, or hey.
I've got an idea.
What do you think?
Being able to bounce that off of them.
And and this person said to me, you know, she'slike, you well, I've had 2 people now say it to
him.
They're like, you're the most transparent,you're the most transparent manager I've ever
had in my entire career.
(49:59):
And I think that's an important key beingtransparent and being honest with whether it's
a direct report or, you know, anywhere, anylayer within the organization being ultra
transparent and being honest.
If you don't know, say it.
And, you know, so this, this, you know, thisperson said, you have been so supportive and,
and have given me so much guidance.
(50:21):
And she's like, no one has ever done that.
No one has ever done that anywhere I've worked.
And goddamn.
That's a good feeling.
Cause that, that may let me, if I, if you guysdon't mind, let me, let me back up to to 1995.
Okay.
TJ is gonna graduate high school in 1995.
(50:41):
I had no guidance.
I had no I had no support.
Like, literally no support in my career to sayto help steer me.
I had to figure it out on my own.
I'm not saying listen.
My my dad was a good dad.
Okay?
He he was there.
He was there.
You know?
He he had 4 kids.
(51:02):
He was there.
Okay?
And and and I have a very small family, youknow, aunt, uncle, grandma, couple cousins.
It's very, very small family.
And and because of that family, you know,they're they were there, but there was nobody
that ever said they they gave you guidance.
They gave you to help you steer the ship.
Okay?
And so I I think about kind of going through mymy career progression and thinking about
(51:25):
listen.
That's something I recognize.
And if I can help somebody if I can helpsomebody in any part of their career, that
makes me feel good.
It makes me it it helps fill the bucket.
It helps kinda smooth over over some of thosescars, you know, that we incur growing up,
going through adulthood, young adulthood intobeing an adult, having kids and stuff.
(51:49):
And you and you try to you know, you learn fromsome of that stuff.
And some of it is not not our fault.
Right?
That we it's not our fault.
You know?
And it's it's not a blame game either.
So I I think about that.
And I, honestly, I think about it every day.
I think about it every day.
I get up, and, what what positive impact can Imake in somebody's life that I work with?
(52:15):
Whether it's just, hey, man.
How you doing?
Is everything good?
Can you know, do you need anything from me toto career advice, to personal advice, to and I
and I think sometimes it gets lost.
It's just been lost, you know, and noteverybody's maybe open to that.
But being, you know, kind of taking my dynamic,you know, being that shy person and and just
(52:36):
honestly begging truly, and this is an honeststatement here, truly screaming and no one can
hear you, and being on this island by yourselfand just for guidance, mentorship, you know, I
thinking back to, you know, when I was in readymix and, you know, going into you know, think
(52:58):
about, okay, TJ's turning the tides in theSouth Bay.
And, you know, the the company came to me andthey said, hey, TJ.
We want you to start mentoring, you know, theseindividuals that are coming out of, you know,
CAM classes and and college and, you know, asyou know, we'd want you to help them.
We'd want you to mentor them.
And and I started mentoring individuals, andthey would I would be paired up with them for 6
(53:20):
months to a year, and I would help them intheir careers.
And then, you know, kind of fast forward, youknow, I love that environment.
I love it.
I thrive in it.
I because it's something I didn't have growingup.
It being a young adult, kinda trying to find,you know, your niche in this world.
(53:41):
And I think it's extremely important.
I think it's an extremely important cog in thewheel for us as human beings to have some type
of mentorship support system.
Doesn't matter what your title is.
And if I can be remembered, you know, when it'stime to retire and hang up and TJ who, you
(54:05):
know, if I can be remembered by that, then it'slike, you know, that's my legacy.
And that's what I wanna be remembered by.
I wanna be remembered by that.
It's a super cool, very insightful.
Love how you describe that.
Be contagious.
I've never heard that one before.
I love that.
(54:25):
I may I may adopt a version of that.
Please.
So thank you.
I wrote it down too.
I literally wrote it down.
I wanna be contagious.
Oh, I love it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think it applies to every layer.
It applies to every layer.
I mean, whether it's our family, it's it's ifwe're if we're if we're walking through the
park with one of our kids, to somebody that wework with, I think it's an an extremely
(54:50):
important piece that people can thrive in andblossom.
We want them to blossom.
Love the insight.
Well, speaking of insights, I think we should,I think it's time for our last question because
I'm excited for this.
Justin, throw it
at me.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
So, TJ, if you could go back 20 years, that's2,004, what advice would you give yourself?
(55:13):
I would what advice would I give myself?
Honestly, I would I would tell myself, be likea duck and let the water roll off your back.
Don't let in all of that noise, because at theend of the day, there's only so much that you
can control.
And when if you if you care, I'm a person thatcares too much, and it can tear you up.
(55:41):
It can genuinely tear you up inside.
It can it can burn you down.
I would tell myself, be cognitive of what'sgoing on.
Try not to let so much in, and you can still bea caring, understanding person that can lead.
(56:01):
But don't let it come inside of you and tearyou up because you can, you can be thrown off
the course.
And and, honestly, you can shorten the theexpiration date of being an effective manager.
And I think that that's something that isimportant because we want good leadership.
(56:24):
And in, in the construction industry, I don'tcare what industry it is, whether it's a
grocery store or it's a construction industryor to the medical field.
If you take that all in, it's going to tear youup and you got to learn how to let me give you
an example.
Direct report came into me and the world wasburning down one day and the world was burning
(56:49):
down for her and she was having a tough day andI was sitting at my and I I was looking.
I was listening, you know, and she she's likeand you're sitting there smiling.
I said, don't worry about it.
We're gonna figure this out.
Don't worry.
Don't worry.
We're gonna we're gonna process of elimination.
We're gonna figure this out.
And that is something that I've been teachingall of these managers.
(57:10):
So their expiration date gets extended, andthey don't get burnt out.
And that is something that I would, honestly, Iwould I would want to I would I wish I had that
a little bit earlier on because it would'vehelped me.
Luckily, I was able to to to to pull it out ofmyself rather quickly, but, I would say if
(57:31):
that's something that we could help, you know,people coming up in this industry with extend
their runway, help them fill up the buck bucketfaster, learn how to do that.
They're gonna they're gonna thrive and blossomand and really go far in this industry.
Love the insight.
Oh my god.
Yeah.
This has been super insightful for me.
I wrote down a bunch of notes other than thecontagious piece.
(57:54):
This is yeah.
No.
Wow.
What a what a great, insightful conversation.
TJ, if somebody wanted to hear more about, youor, you know, talk to you just more about all
the awesome ideas and and thoughts andleadership, abilities you have, what's the best
way for them to contact you?
Yeah.
No.
Listen.
I you guys, I I appreciate, such an honest,candid conversation.
(58:17):
I appreciate you guys providing a platform todo it on because you guys make it, you guys
make it make a person like me feel warm andbeing able you guys really help open up the
book and share a couple of chapters within, youknow, TJ's upbringing in life.
But, yeah, if if anybody wanted to contact me,they could reach me on on LinkedIn, TJ
(58:39):
O'Connor, or they could find me on Instagram,just Tommy from Up The Hill.
Just a regular guy who builds hot rods afterhours.
Just Tommy from up the hill.
That's awesome.
I will throw in, that stuff as well as, thecompany information in the show notes.
And, do you have last parting words before wesay our goodbyes?
Be contagious, and don't forget that, and don'tlose sight of it.
(59:01):
Be contagious.
Love it.
Love it.
Listeners, I hope, you do become contagious,and I hope that, this has been an impactful
conversation for you because I know for sure ithas been for me and and for Will.
So, until next time.
Adios.
Adios.
Thanks, you guys.
Thanks for listening to Building Scale.
To help us reach even more people, please sharethis episode with a friend, colleague, or on
(59:26):
social media.
Remember, the 3 pillars of scaling a businessare people, process, and technology.
And our mission is to help the AEC industryprotect itself by making technology easy.
So if you think your company's technologypillar could use some improvement, book a call
with us to see how we can help maximize your ITcybersecurity strategy.
(59:51):
Just go to building scale dot net slash help.
And until next time.
Keep building scale.
Scale.
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