February 4, 2025 • 48 mins
Jessie Terry shares insights on transitioning from employee to business owner and the challenges of post-holiday work. He discusses business planning, execution, and the impact of construction innovations and disruptions. Jessie provides an overview of Optimly and strategies for enhancing client experience. The episode delves into construction forecasting challenges, addressing labor shortages, and the importance of time management for entrepreneurs. Jessie emphasizes building and managing teams, continuous learning, and shares exciting projects and future plans. The conversation highlights the role of delegation and automation in job satisfaction, Jessie's positive influence, and concludes with his closing thoughts and a recap.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Think I think it's Matthew McConaughey who hassaid, like, you can't major in your minors.
Right?
You gotta just do the thing that you wanna doand and eliminate the other stuff.
Right?
So in this case, like, you have your ownbusiness.
So let's let's talk about that.
Have you ever wondered how successfularchitecture, engineering, and construction
(00:21):
companies scale their business?
Or have you ever wanted guidance on how to getmore growth, wealth, and freedom from your AEC
company?
Well, then you're in luck.
Hi.
I'm Will Foratt.
And I'm Justin Nagel, and we're your podcasthosts.
We interview successful AEC business leaders tolearn how they use people, process, and
(00:41):
technology to scale their businesses.
So sit back and get ready to learn from theindustry's best.
This is Building scale.
Hey, listeners.
It's Will here.
Our mission is to help the AC industry protectitself by making technology easy.
If you've ever listened to our show, then youknow that the 3 pillars of scaling a business
(01:04):
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Just go to building scale dot net slash help.
Hey, everybody.
Welcome back to another episode of buildingconnections from the building scale podcast.
(01:29):
We're really excited this week.
When I say we're really excited, I mean, Iguess I'm really excited because I got to talk
to Jesse Terry, who is a now, a friend is theeasiest way I'd put it.
But what he did before, he was my friend orwhat he still does is he's the CEO and
principal of Blue Ocean Edge LLC.
He's nationally recognized and respected senioroperations executive, 2 time public, company,
(01:58):
CHRO.
You know, there's always the chief, ofeverything as in I'm a chief storyteller, which
I don't go by b s t.
That would be intro or CSTO.
Or maybe I should now.
But nonetheless, c h r o, for Jesse, boardmember, stakeholder, adviser for large and
small, midsize private and public companieswith strong emphasis on operational
(02:22):
efficiencies, strategic sustainable growth,human capital management.
He does a little bit of everything.
Some of the big, places he worked for, TaylorMorris, Home Corporation, as well as Roundy's,
which is now Kroger, and, Kraft Heinz.
So lots of names that you probably know.
I met Jesse, oh, man, probably in the fall.
(02:43):
We went out, had a couple burgers and a and afew beers together, which was nice, and then
realized that we did a a lot of there's a lotof crossover of the stuff we did.
And he's just fun him being the now.
And I thought that this episode, really kindashowcased really being intentional with with
strategy and with operations and, like, howthat can change so much of a business.
(03:05):
It's not always the sales engine that does itall, which, who doesn't love a good sales
engine?
But his operations, and strategy are bar none.
So, I hope you enjoy this episode as I know Idid when I recorded it with Jesse, and here it
is.
Yes.
Jesse, we were just talking about, the holidaysbecause, it is currently the second still.
(03:29):
That's today is the second.
So all the holidays are behind us.
One thought I I was asked as I asked this andyou were telling me that your kids are at home
and, like, you're just ready for 25, onethought I had was how do you turn it back on?
Right?
Like, so Christmas time can, like, shut us downa little bit, you know, even if you're, like,
kinda in it but, like, you're not fully maybeas engaged as you would be because you're
(03:52):
trying to spend time with family and whatever.
How do you, how do you flip the switch?
How do you go go back into it?
You know what?
It's sort of natural for me.
I think lots of working years decades of doingthis.
I think it takes a while to get good at it.
Right?
Yeah.
There's earlier years where I never turned itoff.
I would work even if we had time off.
I was so focused on, oh, what are the thingsthat we're trying to achieve in q one and Q2?
(04:18):
So I would, I would never really shut it off asa career minded individual.
Right.
And that was my younger years when that's all Ithought about was work.
As I got older and my kids grew up, I wish Iwould have learned this a lot younger is I
really needed to kind of block off that spacefor holiday time, family time, and, and say,
(04:39):
you know, put a safety net around it.
So I could really enjoy that time with themand, be able to develop a even deeper
relationship with my own kids, much less, therest of my family.
So, and then, you know, when it's time, when itgets towards the end of kind of that new year's
and the next day, like today, Then it's aboutflipping the switch, and I'm going back into
(05:01):
planning mode.
I've already done some planning at the end oflast year.
But now it's about, you know, how do I get backinto the rhythm and groove of all the work I've
got going on in Q1, Q2?
Now I really focused on the 1st 90 days here.
The 2nd 90 days is a lot of planning, but 1st90 is really about execution.
So getting things completed and and done.
(05:21):
Right?
And earlier in January, the better.
So, so yeah, I'm kind of in that mode of I justflipped the script.
I'll call it last night.
Starting to think about the things I needed todo today, and then getting into, some execution
yet this week, which is really even tough thisweek.
As you know, Justin, it's the middle of theweek.
Holidays hit again in the middle of the week.
(05:42):
So it's kind of an odd time of, are peoplestill off?
Are they on?
So I'm trying to be respectful at the same timeof, well, I'm doing some planning, but really
next week is what I'm really, looking toachieve on the workload side of it.
But so I'm I'm just still doing some planningmode for today and tomorrow.
Now that I completely agree with the middle ofthe week holiday situation.
(06:05):
Yeah.
It's because, like, you're, like, I don't know.
Some people are not gonna be back till nextweek or, you know, it just feels weird.
Like, yesterday, I kept thinking.
I'm, like, oh, yeah.
It's Sunday.
And it's, like, no.
It's not Sunday.
It is Wednesday, which then throws off thewhole, you know, the whole rhythm that you
have.
And even to top that off, I'm actually goingyou talk about planning.
(06:25):
I'm going to Chicago next week for our ourannual leadership planning for the year, which
is great and fun and amazing, and I love thatso much.
But it also is like, oh, so you were just in,like, holiday mode, then you have 2 days.
And then on Monday, you're flying to Chicago,and you have a week there.
And then we have a party celebration for ourteam.
(06:46):
All that cool stuff.
So it's like an extension of this, like, notnormal day to day, like, get to the grind, wake
up.
You know, I'm I'm an early guy.
So, like, you know, I start at 5 AM to, likeOh, yeah.
Going.
Right?
So it's just like Yep.
When you're in this, like, oh, 1st year'sholidays, there's people all around.
You're staying with you.
(07:07):
And then it's like, oh, you're also not gonnabe home for a week.
So then it's like, oh, holy crap.
Plan around that too.
Yeah.
Which I've gotten better at.
But that was the thing that was really hard.
I'd get, like because I'm so habitual.
So it was just, like, all my habits would thenbreak when I go every quarter to go to Chicago
to plan, strategy stuff.
(07:27):
But I've gotten better at it.
But it's to your point, it just takes time tofigure it out because it's hard to get yourself
on track and motivated in that way.
At least that's certainly what I found.
Yeah.
Yeah, no, I think that's true.
And I think everybody has priorities.
Right.
And I think you got to find out what works foryou.
And that was me, you know, 3 decades of in theworkforce or more this point without saying my
(07:51):
age.
You know, you, you gotta learn what works foryou and your family.
And, and some of that is just maturing as a, asa leader.
Right.
You gotta know when to turn it off and thenwhen to turn it on.
And then, you know, when can I go 60?
When do I need to do 150 miles an hour?
When do I need to be at 0?
Right.
And just be a listener.
Right.
So, you know, you, you gotta find your rhythm.
(08:13):
Everybody has to find their own, but it'salways great to learn from others that have
been successful doing it.
Like this was my first real year of grindingaway on my business, in a big way.
Like I've always had it on the side and I'vealways, always worked it.
So I've got a lot of relationships out there,but this is my 1st year of I got into the
holidays of, wow, it's my own business.
(08:36):
It's, you know, it's only me.
I guess I'll take some days off if I, if I wantto, but you know, Hey, no one's paying me PTO
to be time off.
Right.
So I'm always thinking about the next thing or2 of what I want to do and what I want to get
done next year.
So it was, it was a bit different for me thisholiday season of me thinking about it
completely differently than I have in the pastis being employed right with a company.
(08:59):
So that was a bit different.
So let's talk about that.
Right?
So, congratulations on the 1st year.
It's, exciting time.
So let's talk about what you do so listenersunderstand that, but then also how that
transition was going from that employee to now,you know, having this thing that was on the
side that is now the main thing.
Right?
I think I think it's Matthew McConaughey whohas said, like, you can't major in your minors.
(09:23):
Right?
You gotta just do the thing that you wanna doand and eliminate the other stuff.
Right?
So in this case, like you have your ownbusiness.
So let's let's talk about that.
Yeah.
And the transition was fairly simple to what Ilove to do.
Right?
Because I really do enjoy working withbusinesses and helping them grow and develop
(09:44):
and, whether it's their talent profile or theirsales revenue or their EBITDA or business
development, distribute, whatever it is.
Right.
I just enjoy working with business owners.
Small midsize businesses, what I focus on.
But I spend a lot of time with big, large capstoo, especially in the food and beverage area,
but construction, home building is where Ireally spend a lot of my time.
(10:09):
I've spent a lot of, a lot of my time in, Iwould say that that business for the last 8
years now, since I've been out here in 16, andI've really enjoyed it.
So that's something about construction.
Once you get hooked into construction and homebuilding, you can't get out of it.
It's like either you love it or you hate it.
There isn't a in between with this business.
(10:29):
I mean, I absolutely love it.
I think it's a lot of fun building somethingfor a homeowner or, building an entire home for
a homeowner and how it comes together is sodifferent from any other manufacturing supply
chain organization I've been a part of.
Right.
It's so decentralized and how it's done.
So it comes with a lot of challenges, but it'sa ton of fun.
(10:50):
So that's really where I spend a lot of my timeis home building, construction, operations,
working with contractors, trades, home buildingproducts, companies like Levin, helping them,
you know, support automation and automation innew homes.
And I love disruptive products.
I love the fact that construction op is finallygetting to a disruptive mode of there's so many
(11:11):
different things going on in home buildingthese days and that it's evolving in such a way
that people are more interested in innovationthan they have been.
It's not just the electric camera anymore.
Now it's about, wow, I can turn my lights onfrom anywhere I want to be.
I don't even have to be in the same state.
So it's it's definitely changed over the years.
(11:33):
Energy, energy star, all of these programs thathave been rolled out over the years, department
of energy, you know, home builders and tradesand builders and distributors are finally
listening to it.
And they're spending a lot of time and energyand investment in it.
So so, yeah, I do a lot of work with, businessowners and then I also do a lot of work with
individuals.
(11:54):
I've got several several other lines ofbusiness that I'm working with my debt
navigator for companies that wanna write, youknow, roll out a financial wellness benefit.
They need financial wellness benefit for alltheir employees, you know, and it's a terrific
program.
It's free for them and they can co brand it.
I have optimally, which is automation for anykind of company, but we spend a lot of time in
(12:16):
construction with it.
As you think about people working off thespreadsheets and scheduling and enterprise
systems that don't talk to each other andwarranty doesn't talk to, you know, invoicing
or parts.
Yeah.
Well, you can put in systems in place, thathelp all those systems talk to each other
without human being involved.
So, you know, things like that bring a lot ofbenefit, and purpose to companies where they're
(12:39):
not spending time focused on, you know, humansdoing that work and you can have technology do
the work, which I know you're a big fan of.
Oh, yeah.
It's wild to, see how, like, I, you know, it'sbeen coming.
Right?
Like you say, like 50 years ago, constructionis very similar to it is today.
A lot of people will say the when you compareit to manufacturing Yeah.
(13:01):
Their night and day, one one has evolved everyaspect.
The other is generally stayed very similar.
Mhmm.
But I I feel like the other shoe is about todrop.
I think that's the right analogy where you'regonna start seeing way more of it.
I mean, we when we've seen it from people thatare more trailblazers, from somebody that has 2
robots in a warehouse that's building a houseright now, which is a wild like, that's a wild
(13:25):
crazy thing, to developers ensuring that, like,they're building, you know, houses that have
drone landing spots on it and things like it,where you're just like and then commercial real
estate that, like, we need to put all of theassets in the blockchain.
So, like, you're seeing, like, very, very,like, far, you know, evolutions that are
already starting to pop up.
But I think you're gonna get a lot of thatcatch up in between where you see, like, how do
(13:49):
you optimize things?
Right?
Like, you know, optimally.
Right?
Like, it's like, how do you how do you do thatpart that has been so forgotten essentially
over the years?
Yeah.
So I'm, yeah, I'm full believer thatconstruction is waking up, you know, from a 50
year slumber and saying, like, hey.
Like, we we can make things a little bitfaster, a little bit better.
(14:09):
Yeah.
Absolutely.
And that helps them close more homes sooner andand have a better outcome for the homeowner.
Certainly, you know, everybody's competing.
You think about, you know, the Pultes of theworld, the Linares, the Doctor Horton's, and,
you know, NVRs.
I mean, those are the big four.
I mean, obviously they're always competing witheach other, not to mention all the private home
builders out there, all the customs, you know,there's, there's a ton of competition in the
(14:33):
space and you've got every supplier andbuilding products company out there trying to
sell to those big home builders.
But production home building is not for thefaint of heart.
Right?
So it's not always smooth, especially whenyou're doing 50 to a 100000 homes a year.
And you're trying to bring all these differenttrades and all this different technology
together and then build a house on a, on aschedule.
(14:55):
So a homeowner can actually close and go livein that house.
So pretty difficult to do versus, you know,manufacturing and everything is in one nice
building and one nice production
line and comes off and finishes and goes in thetruck.
It
doesn't happen out in finishes and goes in atruck.
Doesn't happen out in construction world.
You know, a lot more products happening or alot more building product companies supporting,
(15:16):
you know, I'll call it, you know, they're doingmore off, off, off production, mark or excuse
me, off production making of their products,versus them building it in the field.
Right.
So they're doing more of that where they canframing some I'll call it mechanicals, but
(15:36):
there's just a long ways to go.
Right?
They're not rolling houses off production linesyet.
So
Yeah.
No.
I think that that's the especially because howwe want instant gratification as a society, or
or or many of society want that, that they wantthe we have the technology to be able to, you
know, have robots build houses.
(15:57):
So why aren't they doing?
Like, why isn't this just happening?
And it's, like, there's much more to that thanyou you think.
It's just the investment for a company to make.
Right?
It's just, like, structured companies aren't,you know, they're not, like, the highest margin
profitability industry in in the world by anymeans imagination.
So, like, where you invest, you know, money,it's, like, it matters.
(16:18):
And, like, when you're talking about veryforward thinking, those come at a cost.
So no.
Totally.
Oh, yeah.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
So, tell me more about Optimly.
Yeah.
So, Optimly, great company.
I've been working with them now for a few yearsand, worked with them on a number of different
things.
But, you know, I I probably have food andbeverage sector, home building, construction
(16:43):
companies, HVAC, plumbing, electrical trades,that are also their customers.
But they do a lot of work in the space where,you know, people are trying to automate things
that have gone and been manual for decades toyour point.
Right?
So, you know, they may have a NetSuite overhere doing bookkeeping.
(17:04):
And they may have a job bidding process that'son Excel and then their warranty, if they, if
they have a warranty program is typically doneon another worksheet or another workbook in
Excel or some other program that they homemade2 decades ago or whatever it might be.
Or they bought an enterprise system.
A lot of, you know, a lot of these companieshave bought these enterprise systems that help
(17:24):
them with scheduling, help them with costing,etcetera, but they don't always talk to
everything else that they've got going on.
So I have one example where a trade HVAC tradein the field, their employees would have to
take pictures in the field, bring it back tothe office, then upload it to a desktop for
(17:45):
that specific lot because of what they weredoing.
Or, I mean, they couldn't physically send itthrough a portal, or through any type of portal
that they had set up to upload directly to thecustomer without them doing anything, or to
that lot.
So using optimally, they were able to actuallyautomate that work, that workflow.
(18:05):
They put in an internal portal within thecompany.
So everything they assigned with those picturesautomatically got uploaded to that lot in their
system.
So there was no more work.
There was no more having to drive back to theoffice.
Windshield time costs money, right?
If you're in a trade.
So anything you can do to keep your frontlinein the field and your, hopefully your back
(18:28):
office lean and means so because obviously backoffice is overhead and expense.
So the leaner you can make that the better.
And then invest more in your front endresources that's making you revenue and making
you money.
So that's what Optimize is all about.
Right?
We like to take the work out of the back officeas much as possible, automate as much as we can
for the customer so they can spend more timedoing what they do best.
(18:51):
I mean, that's their trait and out there makingmoney and actually improving the customer's
lives that they're working with.
Yeah.
Client experiences, I feel like it's becomingmore and more the name of the game.
And I feel like you're always there's always anaspect of this, but I feel like now no matter
what you do, sell, create, like, the end users'experience is so crucial to your success rate.
(19:14):
Right?
Like, it's just what it is.
If you take, you know, Amazon major massivecompanies and, like, we only get that big.
It's like, yes.
Because they created an experience that wasamazing.
You'd say whatever you want about Amazon or anyof these big companies, but it's like the
reason they got to that size is because usersloved what they did.
Right?
Oh,
yeah.
And I think that that's that lesson, is weshould think about more and more.
(19:39):
Like, you know, having, like, what's the clientexperience?
Like, what's, you know, the speed of a job?
Right?
It's like, oh, man.
Like, we're on schedule.
Just being on time is amazing, which it shouldbe, you know, maybe bare minimums at times.
But, like, in this scenario, it's like, oh,yeah.
Like, we said that you're closing on, you know,January 30th, then that's when you're closing.
(20:01):
Like, and that's that's the date.
Oh, yeah.
And that would be home builders' dreams rightthere.
If they could forecast accurately, whichforecasting is the toughest thing.
Any home builder or trade will tell you that ifthere's one issue within the industry that is
common amongst everyone, it's forecastingbecause of delays.
It could be because of supply chain, but it'stypically due to construction schedules in the
(20:23):
field.
Right?
So, there are conflicting ones in there.
They're typically off sometimes up to 90 dayson scheduling, right?
There's lots of things that happen in thoseschedules.
But if you don't have a system that's helpingyou with, you know, all the construction
schedules behind it, along with all yoursuppliers, keep them informed.
I mean, some of them have great systems inplace, but not all the trades do, and not all
(20:48):
their suppliers do.
And that's where we come in and support them asbest we can and work with the home builders
themselves.
Yeah.
The the trades, especially when it's a smallershop, it becomes, you know, you can only be as
good as your lowest common denominator conceptwhere you start saying, like, I want speed, but
it's like, what if you're using a 3 man shopcompared to something else where it's like, I
(21:13):
would love to build your, you know, 700 homesin this community.
However, I just there's a load problem thatwe're gonna bump into or, you know, something
like that where it's just like, it doesn'talways work or or I my guys are sick or my
guy's sick that he can't get on-site today.
And then that throws everybody else off becauselike, oh, well, the drywall is not up.
(21:33):
How could I possibly, you know, put in acounter?
Or how could I possibly, you know, put in thenext finishings on top of that?
So Yeah.
Well, and labor is a major issue, right?
Especially on the front line for a lot of thesetrades, you can just pick a trade and they all
have labor shortages for the most
part.
So if you can invest more of your money andyour time into the front end and the facing
(21:55):
front facing, I call it, roles like installersor your crews out in the field versus, you
know, I need to hire another admin to track allthis stuff in my back office or another analyst
of some kind.
I mean, that doesn't really add value to yourbusiness.
Right?
That's just an overhead cost.
The other things hopefully are revenue, youknow, revenue generators.
(22:18):
And you're obviously invested more on you wannabe more invested in that than you you do in the
in the in the back office.
Right?
Oh, absolutely.
I mean, we talk about this all the time withtechnology.
And not even, like, you know, operation
Yeah.
In general.
Organization, but just as in general wherepeople wanna just keep throwing people at the
problem.
And it's like, that's not that doesn't makesense.
(22:41):
Right?
Let's just, like, no.
You just need to fix you like, you have aninfrastructure problem and you your systems
just don't run very fast.
It's like Mhmm.
You can actually do more work with the peopleyou have if you just invested a little bit of
money into your technology compared to, like,I'll just hire another 3 people that do the
same job as these 16 people, and we'll go fromthere.
And it's like you you're looking at it thewrong way.
(23:02):
Or, like, you're not looking at it as, oh, Ishould be way more intentional about where I'm
investing the money.
Yeah.
They're they I don't know what they used tocall it.
Used to call it something where, you know,mature maturing companies or early stage
companies, they get this, you know, thingsstart, you know, becoming a life on their own.
(23:23):
Right.
And all of a sudden you're spending money onthings that you didn't even know that you're
using.
They may have platforms or things theypurchased and that's where the enterprise stuff
comes in.
People buy things and they're like, well, Ididn't know it did any of these other things.
Well, they, they haven't really, they don'treally know how to use it part of it.
Right.
And then the other part of it is that, did theyeven need to purchase something that they
(23:48):
they're not really utilizing?
And we've had lots of clients go back and, and,you know, we've done the automation project and
decided, well, I don't really see a need forthis enterprise program.
And why am I spending 1,000 of dollars a month?
It's not really needed unless you're reallygoing to use every attribute of the enterprise
software.
(24:08):
It becomes pretty costly.
That completely agree.
So when you went when you went off on your ownthis year, this last year,
Yeah.
More full time, I'll call it.
Yeah.
You have more we have more full time.
Easier transition.
Great.
Because you were you're kinda you were doingthese things, and now it just became the main
thing.
That's like the the dream scenario foreverybody, but but that still has to come with
(24:34):
challenge.
I can only imagine.
So what what were some of those challenges thatyou kinda realized this year more so than
maybe, you thought?
Yeah.
You know, I I think it's a few things.
You know, scheduling your time, making sureyou're very planful with your time and
otherwise you get like squirrel disease, right?
You get squirrels everywhere.
There's, I've got, you know, dogs at home.
(24:56):
I've got kids to deal with.
I've got family here as well.
Right.
So, and I got other pet projects that I workon.
I work on motorcycles.
I enjoy riding.
There's lots of things I do, right.
Hunting, etcetera.
So, but if you're not plan full with your time,time can get away from you pretty quickly.
So if you're working on things, it's beingvery, very thoughtful about your week and
(25:18):
planning and logistics.
So I'm very big on that anyway.
And I like to be pretty thoughtful of, okay, ifI'm at work, I'm doing work and this is all I'm
going to focus on and get this project done orthat project done.
And there won't be, you know, I'm not perfect.
Everybody has their issues.
Right.
So there's times where I'm still going to getdistracted, but you know, if it's in my
(25:39):
schedule, if it's in my calendar, then it getsdone.
Right.
That's that's me.
So I I've become much more thoughtful about mydays weeks now than I was before because it's
just me.
I do some outsourcing of some work, that I havedone for me.
But at the end of the day, it's just me as theleader and the end and the owner of the
company.
(26:00):
But I'm working with, you know, 4 or 5 othercompanies.
And I have, actually dozens of companies whenyou think about some of the other things I, I
work on and deliver.
But, again, it's gotta be planned for them.
You gotta be, you know, for me, I've gotta planout my days months to make them make them
effective.
So that that was a big change for me.
(26:21):
So what, I guess, what were you doing prior tothis that prevented you from not prevented you,
but what were you doing prior to this that youweren't doing the main thing?
You know, you know, working at Ria.
So I'll I'll give you an exact couple ofexamples.
So I worked at Ria prior to this.
Again, another disruptive product, for homehome building production.
(26:44):
It's, it's it's uninsulated duct and componentsthat fit within the envelope of a home.
So much more energy efficient than yourconventional HVAC products that are out there.
You know, very disruptive product.
Awesome.
Been awesome for the industry, frankly.
So I was there four and a half years.
Still a significant investor in the in thecompany itself.
(27:05):
And, you know, startups, you know, you know, Iwas there with startups with no revenue, right?
So day, day 1, day 2, I'll call it, and then,kind of pre revenue.
So from there, building it from that to1,000,000 of dollars in revenue is a ton of
work and effort, and you're spending a lot oftime on the road traveling quite a bit in the
(27:25):
field, in the field with home builders, trades,distribution, working with your builder
investors and builder partners.
You know, I was busy all the time.
You know, my schedule is always full witheither my customers or my team, that I was
building as well.
Right.
And building a team nationally.
And it was a blast.
I had a great time.
(27:47):
You know, obviously the company continues toscale today, working with more builders and
continuing to grow.
We're still involved and supporting, wherever Ican of the Ria team.
But, you know, the change for me was when Idecided to, to leave Ria and do these other
things that I've been working, and, and reallygrow it into the business that it is today.
(28:10):
It was a transition because, you know, goingfrom a schedule that was somewhat dictated to
you because you get meetings and meetingnotices and travel schedules, and you don't
have a lot of control over some of thosethings.
Some of them you do, but some of them youdon't.
When you transition to a business and runningyour own business, like I have now, now it's,
well, there is nobody else in charge of it.
(28:31):
It's you.
Right.
So, yeah, I don't, I don't have to be involvedin a lot of meetings.
I'm I'm involved in the meetings I need to beinvolved in that the customer's paying me to be
involved in and then projects I work on.
And I'm, it's very focused, typically revenuegenerating, generating product, products or
projects, or, growing a company sales orwhatever it might be.
(28:53):
Right.
Or working with them on their team.
So, but I don't have to spend a lot of time onother things outside of the work I'm doing.
So that's where these other things come in thatI spend a lot more time on, which again is
solving an issue for a customer, prettyspecific one, whether it's, you know, rolling
out a financial wellness benefit, like my debtnavigator or, they need automation solutions,
(29:16):
like optimally, which I tend to see almost anycompany could use.
So, so I spend more, I, it's more of a flex,right?
I work on projects here with some customers.
And then over here, I'll work on enterprisetype projects, to support them more enterprise
wide on automation and, or, you know, benefitsthat they're looking for for their team.
(29:38):
Oh, okay.
So you used to run a team though.
I build out a team.
Is that a vision for the future or is it like,no, no, I'm more okay being a solo on myself?
Yeah.
You know, it's a really good question.
So I grew up in manufacturing supply chain,more in the food and beverage sector, craft
foods group.
This I was, well, craft foods was my cutting,cutting my teeth on, you know, running, big
(30:01):
manufacturing companies and running humanresources, frankly.
Cause I stumbled into human resources back thenand spent 12 years, with them.
And it was an awesome, awesome run.
I really enjoyed it, but, and I had massiveteams.
I mean, I had teams of 4,000 people.
I had teams of 10,000 people.
Then I went on to be the chief HR officer forRoundy Supermarkets, ended up taking on
(30:23):
manufacturing for them as well.
Again, food and beverage, and then retail.
We got bought by Kroger in 16.
I had 28,000 employees at that point, by thetime we were purchased.
And then from there, I went to Taylor MorrisonCorporation.
I was the chief HR there for 3 years.
We grew that business, some M and A.
Actually Kraft Foods M and A, Roundy's M and A,Taylor Morrison M and A.
(30:46):
So I've dealt with, I think, 9 merger andacquisition projects over that timeframe.
So I've dealt with 1,000 and 1,000 of teammembers.
I mean, when Kroger bought us and when I was atRoundy's, I think they were over a 110,000 team
members themselves.
I'm sure they're way north of that today.
So, no, I'm I'm okay being a solopreneur atthis point.
(31:08):
I'll call it.
I don't mind.
Yeah.
I'm I might build out a team yet.
I mean, I've got, again, lots of things I'mworking on.
So eventually I'll I'll either I've got tooffshore it or outsource it and or bring in my
own team, to support it depending on, what Iwant to focus on.
But I'm okay for now.
You know, it's one of those things where, youknow, I just hit 50 last year.
(31:30):
So, you know, I'm okay.
Kind of doing this on my own for a while andsee what I want to do future state.
So, you know, I it's one of those things whereI think I have a, I have a real niche and love
for what I do, but I also, you know, I'm stillopen there.
I know I never I never know if I really wannagrow up and, you know, figure out what I wanna
do with my life.
(31:51):
I I kinda like this area of discovery.
That's the best way I could describe you.
In all of our interactions, it just feels like,yes, you you have a skill set that is is great
and you love it and it's cool, but you're alsonever one to say no.
Like, I don't like, you know, I'm I'm justtotally not interested in an idea.
(32:14):
Like, I'm always open to hear a new idea and,you know, not gonna do everything I hear.
But, like, I'm always willing to maybe take ona different idea because if it makes sense and
it fits into the structure that you're tryingto build for your business in life, it's like,
why not?
Like, it just it seems oh, you're alwaysdiscovering.
(32:34):
You're always being very inquisitive.
Yeah.
And I think that's a key to life.
Right?
I mean, if you're not learning, you're notearning.
Right?
So I mean, that's just one of those things forme.
And frankly, a few of these things that I'mworking on, I, if I wasn't open to it, I would
have stayed in my, my real narrow niche ofhuman resources, which is, you know, again,
expanded over the years and there's lots ofthings I can do with it, but I really enjoy,
(32:57):
you know, my roots of operations.
That's what I grew up doing.
And then bringing back the kind of theautomation work and that, I mean, I enjoy it.
I mean, if I, if I was more, here's what I didfor 20 years and I'm not doing anything else
and I would have never learned any of theseother things that obviously can help that
department and that part of an organization,but now I can help the entire organization.
(33:20):
It's just not one part of it.
Right.
I can entire, you know, all the parts of it.
So it's a lot more fun.
And, you know, branching out into operationswith Rio was a great experience.
Alan Lang was, you know, my CEO and mentor andstill is.
He's a terrific guy.
Been in home building operations for 30 plusyears.
(33:41):
He's slightly older than me.
I hope he's listening to this headset, but he'sa terrific, terrific guy.
And he's one of those leaders that have taughtme as well.
I mean, you know, be open to certainexperiences, right?
You're going to learn a lot more and you'regoing to be a better, you know, well rounded
leader because of it.
And being open to the criticism that comes withit.
Right.
(34:01):
Cause you're going to learn.
You're probably going to make a few mistakes.
Just don't make the big ones, make small ones,learn a lot along the way and, you know, keep
sharpening your saw.
Right.
So, so I learned a lot, you know, working withhim as EVP of operations for Ria and yeah, I
really heavily enjoyed that role.
That's what will make me never go back to justbeing an HR leader.
(34:23):
Not that that's a bad thing.
It's just that I branched out beyond that and Ireally enjoy the operation side.
And I was in HR
for, like, a week.
It was great.
Oh,
there you go.
Yet what I learned in the 1st week of trainingis you're not allowed to date secretaries.
And then I was no longer allowed to be in HR.
But this it became my wife.
(34:44):
So this is not, you know Yeah.
Yeah.
A horrible tale here by any means ofimagination.
But it was hilarious because it was I wascaught because I was running the Chicago
marathon at the time, and her mom had donated,like, a $100 to my charity or something.
And my boss is, like, was going to donate forthe firm and then was, like, well, that's odd.
How could Justin possibly know Jamie's motherwho lives in Tennessee while, like, there'd be
(35:09):
no rational reason for this?
And then yeah.
So
And then you landed in IT?
Yeah.
And then yeah.
And then I landed in an IT firm that I I don'tyou know, not the expert of IT.
I mean, look at this is this is wild.
This is how, saying yes to ideas and
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Can bring you in all kinds of places.
And now similar to you.
(35:29):
Right?
Love love good operations.
I love how that works.
Sales and marketing, love that.
I love storytelling as, podcast and culturecomponents go.
So, one day maybe I'll grow up too, but itit'll be a long time from now, I think.
Hopefully not.
I hope you never do.
Right.
Enjoy the journey.
Right.
It it's too short as it is.
So, yeah, I hope you never do.
(35:50):
I hope I never do.
I really don't want to grow up.
Not to that extent because, you know, I alwayswant to learn new things and experience new
things, and that's spice of life.
Right?
Experiences.
I wish I had the absorption power of a 4 yearold when I look at, Franklin, and he's, like,
learn he learned anything instantly effectivelybecause it's just, like, so much they absorb so
(36:10):
quickly.
And I'm like, man, if I still had that ability,I I would be I would know every I would know
everything possible, because I just I'm alwaysinterested in asking questions.
Yeah.
Be curious.
Be curious.
I love it.
Be curious.
Always, always be curious.
So, you've mentioned a bunch of cool stuffhappening this year.
What what's on the docket plan that you canshare with me and listeners?
(36:32):
Well, I mean, yeah.
So a couple of things is, you know, workingwith Levin today, which is the lighting
automation company I mentioned earlier, we'vegot a bunch of great, awesome work coming up
with them, working with some of these bignational builders.
So can't say too much.
I can't wipe the cat out of the bag yet.
Yeah.
I'm really, really excited about the firstcouple of quarters coming up here and, you
(36:55):
know, the work we've got going on with some ofthe, you know, the biggest home builders in the
nation.
Couple of them are in the top, top are calledthe top 4.
Right.
So, pretty exciting.
And then we've got a bunch of other builderswe're working with too that we're really
excited in top 20 or so.
You know, it it's fun to see builders look atthe technology and go, is it really this
(37:16):
simple?
Is it really that easy?
Cause innovation isn't easy, right?
And implementation is still hard.
It doesn't matter how good the product is.
Change management is change management.
So it's been really fun to be part of thejourney with them and helping them grow with
these, builders and builders, and then,supporting their journey on US manufacturing at
(37:37):
some point, and bringing manufacturing into theUS from Edmonton, because that's where they're
based out of today.
But just a terrific story, terrific, homebuilding products company.
And that's been, I think it's gonna be afantastic year.
I know it's gonna be, and that's gonna be funfor everybody to see it because it's gonna
unfold right in front of us.
Big disruptive, opportunity for a lot ofpeople.
(37:58):
To come.
Love that.
Love the teaser.
Yeah.
It's a bit of a teaser on 11th.
And I've got the other things that I'm workingon with Optimly and then, my debt navigator,
the financial wellness benefit.
I'm actually working with several differentcompanies right now.
They're all in, you know, some are 20,000,000 ayear in revenue.
(38:19):
I've got 2 at 20,000,000,000 in revenue.
It depends on your flavor, right, of whatyou're what you're needing.
Automation is typically kind of anything under700,000,000 a year.
Automation comes in, the fold pretty good from1,000,000 a year to 700,000,000 a year.
You spend a lot of time in that, in thoseranges, working with those companies, helping
(38:40):
them automate and build out automation.
The my debt navigator financial wellnessbenefit.
That's good for any company over 20 employees.
Since anybody's got 20 or more employees andthey're looking for a financial wellness
benefit, the rollout, then it's free to themand they can obviously co brand as well.
So that's another opportunity.
So I'm working with, you know, big food andbeverage companies.
(39:01):
Those are the $1,000,000,000 ones.
And then I'm working with, you know,contractors that are 2, 300 employees, you
know, all the way up to 15,000 employees.
So the range is out there, right?
I've got one that's 50 employees, that I'mworking with.
But I'm doing lots of those things.
Cause I it's a feel good work on top of lovingwhat you do.
(39:23):
I mean, you're changing people's lives, right?
Automation is making hopefully jobs easier andsimpler for companies to execute on the front
end.
My debt navigator is taking a huge debt loadoff of people and helping them really focus on
their work and their personal lives whilereducing and giving them more cash flow.
I think that's huge.
(39:44):
Right?
You're changing people's lives through benefitslike that.
The other one's self employed tax credit.
I mean, there's a tax credit out there for10.90 nines and those that are self employed.
It's up to $32,000 a year, or up to $32,000from 2021.
A lot of trades that use 10.90 nines and, youknow, there's lots of us individual business
(40:05):
owners that can apply for it.
I, I, you know, I've rolled that out to severalindividuals and companies, the supported
people.
And again, you wouldn't think it would be a bigdeal, but you talk to a single mother who's
raising 2 or 3 kids and, you know, they're selfemployed due to COVID 2020 already, and they
get a 16,000.
(40:26):
Well, that was a game changer for them at theend of the year last year.
So it's a huge, huge upside for them.
Maybe that's life changing money that, youknow, they didn't even know it was available to
them.
So so doing things like that outside of theconsulting, which I might be part time CHRO.
I might be a part time COO.
(40:48):
I might be, working on a specific project,helping a company grow, but then I get to do
these other things that help change thousandsof lives.
And it's really through programs that cansupport companies and or individuals, right?
That people don't realize that are out there.
So yeah, it's a value add.
You know, I like working with things that arereally value added to people because that's,
(41:10):
you know, at this point in my career, that'sreally what it's about.
It's it's more about how do you bring morevalue to somebody in a company that didn't even
know was out there existed.
Yeah.
What, this might be a big big question.
It could be.
I've I don't think I've asked you this.
Sure.
So what what do you maybe you know or maybe youdon't know, and maybe we'll try to discover it
(41:31):
right now.
What do you feel your purpose is?
Right?
Like, we all have x amount of time, on on thisrock.
And our goal should be to figure out what thatpurpose is, and then then run with that purpose
until we're no longer on this rock.
Right?
So what is your purpose or what do you maybethink it is?
You know, I I've gravitated towards small andmidsized businesses.
(41:55):
That's where I've spent a lot of my energy asof late.
And it's really about helping them be better,not only operationally, but, you know,
certainly be successful companies.
Right.
So I think my purpose has really been about howdo I help them do that or help them?
How do I help them achieve something that theydidn't think was possible?
And then on the individual side, I'll call itindividuals that I work with with all these
(42:19):
companies on these programs.
Yeah.
To me, it's about how do you make a personalimpact on thousands of people.
Right?
I mean, and help change their lives for thebetter, maybe even generationally.
Right?
So, you know, if you give them the opportunityand invest in them and then help them with,
like, debt.
Right?
Debt is an issue.
It's, you know, average debt, personal bad I'llcall it bad debt, excluding mortgages hours per
(42:45):
individual out there.
That's the average debt load of credit cards,school, tuition, debt to, you know, whatever.
Right.
Call it, call it, whatever you think about adebt.
And if it's not mortgage, it's it's probablybad, right?
Unless it's business debt, but all thatpersonal debt added up.
I mean, it weighs on people, those paymentsweigh on people.
(43:06):
So if you can help take that away or reduce itin half, or, you know, whatever you can do to
support them on that and put a program inplace, that's going to do it and execute it for
them.
That's huge.
That that's a that's a game changer.
Money is the number one issue people fight on.
You know, families, with each other, that's thenumber one issue.
So if you can take that number one issue andattack it, with something that is pretty
(43:32):
deliberate, that makes you, I mean, you makesome money along the way, but you actually feel
really good about what you're doing.
Same thing with automation.
Right?
I mean, if I can help improve people's livesthrough automation and the fact that they might
even love their job again, because they atesome of the work that they're doing.
And if that was taken away, then they couldreally focus on, by the way, I could be
(43:52):
developed in growing this business.
I could be developed in a better job at mycurrent, you know, current company.
If some of this was out of my way, because I'dhad the time to do it.
I mean, what's better than that.
Right.
You're investing in people's lives throughthese things.
I, I think that's the point of it.
Right?
I mean, you're only on this rock for so much.
(44:13):
Right.
You only got so much time, so you had to takeadvantage of it while you're here.
I completely agree.
We just, did a delegate LVA sheet, which is anEOS tool.
This says like, here are the things you loveand do well or do great.
Here are things you like and do pretty good.
Here are things you don't really like, butyou're pretty good at.
And then here's things you're not good at andyou hate.
Right?
(44:33):
And it's like these quadrants, and it's like,how do you get those bottom 2 quadrants off
your plate?
Right?
And there's so many opportunities that theycould be automate.
Right?
Because, like, not many people like data entry.
Right?
For instance, it's like Right.
Not many people are just jonesing to sit infront of an Excel sheet and change the cells.
Right?
Like, that's generally most people don't feelthat way.
(44:55):
If you if you do feel that way, please let me,you know, somebody, a listener, reach out
because we're gonna have a long conversationabout this.
But nonetheless, like, that's generally a thingthat people don't care for, and it's super
optimized.
Like, you can you can use automation tooptimize this and not and this isn't even,
like, crazy dollars to do this depending onwhat you're doing.
(45:15):
Like, this is something that you just have to,like, realize that you hate it and then find a
way to get it off your plate, which is theconcept of, you know, delegate and elevate.
And sometimes that's people, but other timesit's just using automation.
Right?
So I think us doing that internally, we do itevery quarter, gives us a good view there.
And I actually had somebody do this in one ofmy, impact roundtables.
(45:38):
And they said they saved, like, 50 hours.
And I'm like, oh, my
god.
Wow.
And I was, like, bath.
Right?
I was like,
that's awesome.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's amazing, amazing to hear.
So it's just like, oh, yeah.
Once you realize the things that you don'twanna do, you can totally love your job or
career again.
Right?
Because it's like, I hate doing this, but if Iget that off my plate, I love all this rest of
(45:59):
the stuff.
And then it it changes your whole outlook andthen your trajectory.
Right?
Depending on how big your company is and andwhere you wanna get to in that ladder.
That's just it's just a way to do that usingautomation.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think that's awesome.
So if you're able to impact people's lives, I Imean, I for me anyway, that would that would be
my personal mission.
Right?
If we can impact people's lives positivelythrough things that they didn't even realize
(46:23):
that could be done, you know, why wouldn't youwanna deliver something like that?
You can deliver fun and money, right, all atthe same time.
It's the best kind of money.
It's fun money.
It's it's yeah.
It's the best kind of money.
Exactly.
This is, this has been awesome.
I'm gonna leave social links and all that kindof stuff in the show notes.
But if somebody wanted to get a hold of you,Jesse, what's the best way for them to do that?
Well, they can either reach out to me onLinkedIn, Jesse Terry on LinkedIn, or
(46:47):
blueoceanedgeconsulting.com is my website.
If you wanna go out to that, or you can you canemail blueoceanedge@gmail.com or my personal
cell phone.
There it is.
There's all of it.
This is great.
Is there anything else you wanna tell thepeople before we say our goodbyes?
No.
Hey, I appreciate it, Justin.
Thanks for the time.
And, hey, I hope everybody has a fantastic2025.
(47:09):
It's going to be a awesome year.
There's lots and lots of things going on.
You know, the industry continues to disruptwhether you're in construction or not.
It doesn't even matter what industry you're inanymore.
It's it's more about getting out there and andand learning.
Right?
Networking.
And don't be afraid to take a risk or 2.
It's a good thing.
It's good for your blood.
No.
I agree.
(47:29):
It is good for your blood.
Alright, listeners.
This has been fun.
I hope you enjoyed it as much as the time Idid.
And until next time, adios.
Alright.
Thanks for listening to Building Scale.
To help us reach even more people, please sharethis episode with a friend, colleague, or on
social media.
Remember, the 3 pillars of scaling a businessare people, process, and technology.
(47:54):
And our mission is to help the AEC industryprotect itself by making technology easy.
So if you think your company's technologypillar could use some improvement, book a call
with us to see how we can help maximize your ITcybersecurity strategy.
Think I think it's Matthew McConaughey who hassaid, like, you can't major in your minors.
Right?
You gotta just do the thing that you wanna doand and eliminate the other stuff.
Right?
So in this case, like, you have your ownbusiness.
So let's let's talk about that.
Have you ever wondered how successfularchitecture, engineering, and construction
(00:21):
companies scale their business?
Or have you ever wanted guidance on how to getmore growth, wealth, and freedom from your AEC
company?
Well, then you're in luck.
Hi.
I'm Will Foratt.
And I'm Justin Nagel, and we're your podcasthosts.
We interview successful AEC business leaders tolearn how they use people, process, and
(00:41):
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So sit back and get ready to learn from theindustry's best.
This is Building scale.
Hey, listeners.
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are people, process, and technology.
So if you suspect technology is your weekly,then book a call with us to see where we can
help maximize your company's IT cybersecuritystrategy.
Just go to building scale dot net slash help.
Hey, everybody.
Welcome back to another episode of buildingconnections from the building scale podcast.
(01:29):
We're really excited this week.
When I say we're really excited, I mean, Iguess I'm really excited because I got to talk
to Jesse Terry, who is a now, a friend is theeasiest way I'd put it.
But what he did before, he was my friend orwhat he still does is he's the CEO and
principal of Blue Ocean Edge LLC.
He's nationally recognized and respected senioroperations executive, 2 time public, company,
(01:58):
CHRO.
You know, there's always the chief, ofeverything as in I'm a chief storyteller, which
I don't go by b s t.
That would be intro or CSTO.
Or maybe I should now.
But nonetheless, c h r o, for Jesse, boardmember, stakeholder, adviser for large and
small, midsize private and public companieswith strong emphasis on operational
(02:22):
efficiencies, strategic sustainable growth,human capital management.
He does a little bit of everything.
Some of the big, places he worked for, TaylorMorris, Home Corporation, as well as Roundy's,
which is now Kroger, and, Kraft Heinz.
So lots of names that you probably know.
I met Jesse, oh, man, probably in the fall.
(02:43):
We went out, had a couple burgers and a and afew beers together, which was nice, and then
realized that we did a a lot of there's a lotof crossover of the stuff we did.
And he's just fun him being the now.
And I thought that this episode, really kindashowcased really being intentional with with
strategy and with operations and, like, howthat can change so much of a business.
(03:05):
It's not always the sales engine that does itall, which, who doesn't love a good sales
engine?
But his operations, and strategy are bar none.
So, I hope you enjoy this episode as I know Idid when I recorded it with Jesse, and here it
is.
Yes.
Jesse, we were just talking about, the holidaysbecause, it is currently the second still.
(03:29):
That's today is the second.
So all the holidays are behind us.
One thought I I was asked as I asked this andyou were telling me that your kids are at home
and, like, you're just ready for 25, onethought I had was how do you turn it back on?
Right?
Like, so Christmas time can, like, shut us downa little bit, you know, even if you're, like,
kinda in it but, like, you're not fully maybeas engaged as you would be because you're
(03:52):
trying to spend time with family and whatever.
How do you, how do you flip the switch?
How do you go go back into it?
You know what?
It's sort of natural for me.
I think lots of working years decades of doingthis.
I think it takes a while to get good at it.
Right?
Yeah.
There's earlier years where I never turned itoff.
I would work even if we had time off.
I was so focused on, oh, what are the thingsthat we're trying to achieve in q one and Q2?
(04:18):
So I would, I would never really shut it off asa career minded individual.
Right.
And that was my younger years when that's all Ithought about was work.
As I got older and my kids grew up, I wish Iwould have learned this a lot younger is I
really needed to kind of block off that spacefor holiday time, family time, and, and say,
(04:39):
you know, put a safety net around it.
So I could really enjoy that time with themand, be able to develop a even deeper
relationship with my own kids, much less, therest of my family.
So, and then, you know, when it's time, when itgets towards the end of kind of that new year's
and the next day, like today, Then it's aboutflipping the switch, and I'm going back into
(05:01):
planning mode.
I've already done some planning at the end oflast year.
But now it's about, you know, how do I get backinto the rhythm and groove of all the work I've
got going on in Q1, Q2?
Now I really focused on the 1st 90 days here.
The 2nd 90 days is a lot of planning, but 1st90 is really about execution.
So getting things completed and and done.
(05:21):
Right?
And earlier in January, the better.
So, so yeah, I'm kind of in that mode of I justflipped the script.
I'll call it last night.
Starting to think about the things I needed todo today, and then getting into, some execution
yet this week, which is really even tough thisweek.
As you know, Justin, it's the middle of theweek.
Holidays hit again in the middle of the week.
(05:42):
So it's kind of an odd time of, are peoplestill off?
Are they on?
So I'm trying to be respectful at the same timeof, well, I'm doing some planning, but really
next week is what I'm really, looking toachieve on the workload side of it.
But so I'm I'm just still doing some planningmode for today and tomorrow.
Now that I completely agree with the middle ofthe week holiday situation.
(06:05):
Yeah.
It's because, like, you're, like, I don't know.
Some people are not gonna be back till nextweek or, you know, it just feels weird.
Like, yesterday, I kept thinking.
I'm, like, oh, yeah.
It's Sunday.
And it's, like, no.
It's not Sunday.
It is Wednesday, which then throws off thewhole, you know, the whole rhythm that you
have.
And even to top that off, I'm actually goingyou talk about planning.
(06:25):
I'm going to Chicago next week for our ourannual leadership planning for the year, which
is great and fun and amazing, and I love thatso much.
But it also is like, oh, so you were just in,like, holiday mode, then you have 2 days.
And then on Monday, you're flying to Chicago,and you have a week there.
And then we have a party celebration for ourteam.
(06:46):
All that cool stuff.
So it's like an extension of this, like, notnormal day to day, like, get to the grind, wake
up.
You know, I'm I'm an early guy.
So, like, you know, I start at 5 AM to, likeOh, yeah.
Going.
Right?
So it's just like Yep.
When you're in this, like, oh, 1st year'sholidays, there's people all around.
You're staying with you.
(07:07):
And then it's like, oh, you're also not gonnabe home for a week.
So then it's like, oh, holy crap.
Plan around that too.
Yeah.
Which I've gotten better at.
But that was the thing that was really hard.
I'd get, like because I'm so habitual.
So it was just, like, all my habits would thenbreak when I go every quarter to go to Chicago
to plan, strategy stuff.
(07:27):
But I've gotten better at it.
But it's to your point, it just takes time tofigure it out because it's hard to get yourself
on track and motivated in that way.
At least that's certainly what I found.
Yeah.
Yeah, no, I think that's true.
And I think everybody has priorities.
Right.
And I think you got to find out what works foryou.
And that was me, you know, 3 decades of in theworkforce or more this point without saying my
(07:51):
age.
You know, you, you gotta learn what works foryou and your family.
And, and some of that is just maturing as a, asa leader.
Right.
You gotta know when to turn it off and thenwhen to turn it on.
And then, you know, when can I go 60?
When do I need to do 150 miles an hour?
When do I need to be at 0?
Right.
And just be a listener.
Right.
So, you know, you, you gotta find your rhythm.
(08:13):
Everybody has to find their own, but it'salways great to learn from others that have
been successful doing it.
Like this was my first real year of grindingaway on my business, in a big way.
Like I've always had it on the side and I'vealways, always worked it.
So I've got a lot of relationships out there,but this is my 1st year of I got into the
holidays of, wow, it's my own business.
(08:36):
It's, you know, it's only me.
I guess I'll take some days off if I, if I wantto, but you know, Hey, no one's paying me PTO
to be time off.
Right.
So I'm always thinking about the next thing or2 of what I want to do and what I want to get
done next year.
So it was, it was a bit different for me thisholiday season of me thinking about it
completely differently than I have in the pastis being employed right with a company.
(08:59):
So that was a bit different.
So let's talk about that.
Right?
So, congratulations on the 1st year.
It's, exciting time.
So let's talk about what you do so listenersunderstand that, but then also how that
transition was going from that employee to now,you know, having this thing that was on the
side that is now the main thing.
Right?
I think I think it's Matthew McConaughey whohas said, like, you can't major in your minors.
(09:23):
Right?
You gotta just do the thing that you wanna doand and eliminate the other stuff.
Right?
So in this case, like you have your ownbusiness.
So let's let's talk about that.
Yeah.
And the transition was fairly simple to what Ilove to do.
Right?
Because I really do enjoy working withbusinesses and helping them grow and develop
(09:44):
and, whether it's their talent profile or theirsales revenue or their EBITDA or business
development, distribute, whatever it is.
Right.
I just enjoy working with business owners.
Small midsize businesses, what I focus on.
But I spend a lot of time with big, large capstoo, especially in the food and beverage area,
but construction, home building is where Ireally spend a lot of my time.
(10:09):
I've spent a lot of, a lot of my time in, Iwould say that that business for the last 8
years now, since I've been out here in 16, andI've really enjoyed it.
So that's something about construction.
Once you get hooked into construction and homebuilding, you can't get out of it.
It's like either you love it or you hate it.
There isn't a in between with this business.
(10:29):
I mean, I absolutely love it.
I think it's a lot of fun building somethingfor a homeowner or, building an entire home for
a homeowner and how it comes together is sodifferent from any other manufacturing supply
chain organization I've been a part of.
Right.
It's so decentralized and how it's done.
So it comes with a lot of challenges, but it'sa ton of fun.
(10:50):
So that's really where I spend a lot of my timeis home building, construction, operations,
working with contractors, trades, home buildingproducts, companies like Levin, helping them,
you know, support automation and automation innew homes.
And I love disruptive products.
I love the fact that construction op is finallygetting to a disruptive mode of there's so many
(11:11):
different things going on in home buildingthese days and that it's evolving in such a way
that people are more interested in innovationthan they have been.
It's not just the electric camera anymore.
Now it's about, wow, I can turn my lights onfrom anywhere I want to be.
I don't even have to be in the same state.
So it's it's definitely changed over the years.
(11:33):
Energy, energy star, all of these programs thathave been rolled out over the years, department
of energy, you know, home builders and tradesand builders and distributors are finally
listening to it.
And they're spending a lot of time and energyand investment in it.
So so, yeah, I do a lot of work with, businessowners and then I also do a lot of work with
individuals.
(11:54):
I've got several several other lines ofbusiness that I'm working with my debt
navigator for companies that wanna write, youknow, roll out a financial wellness benefit.
They need financial wellness benefit for alltheir employees, you know, and it's a terrific
program.
It's free for them and they can co brand it.
I have optimally, which is automation for anykind of company, but we spend a lot of time in
(12:16):
construction with it.
As you think about people working off thespreadsheets and scheduling and enterprise
systems that don't talk to each other andwarranty doesn't talk to, you know, invoicing
or parts.
Yeah.
Well, you can put in systems in place, thathelp all those systems talk to each other
without human being involved.
So, you know, things like that bring a lot ofbenefit, and purpose to companies where they're
(12:39):
not spending time focused on, you know, humansdoing that work and you can have technology do
the work, which I know you're a big fan of.
Oh, yeah.
It's wild to, see how, like, I, you know, it'sbeen coming.
Right?
Like you say, like 50 years ago, constructionis very similar to it is today.
A lot of people will say the when you compareit to manufacturing Yeah.
(13:01):
Their night and day, one one has evolved everyaspect.
The other is generally stayed very similar.
Mhmm.
But I I feel like the other shoe is about todrop.
I think that's the right analogy where you'regonna start seeing way more of it.
I mean, we when we've seen it from people thatare more trailblazers, from somebody that has 2
robots in a warehouse that's building a houseright now, which is a wild like, that's a wild
(13:25):
crazy thing, to developers ensuring that, like,they're building, you know, houses that have
drone landing spots on it and things like it,where you're just like and then commercial real
estate that, like, we need to put all of theassets in the blockchain.
So, like, you're seeing, like, very, very,like, far, you know, evolutions that are
already starting to pop up.
But I think you're gonna get a lot of thatcatch up in between where you see, like, how do
(13:49):
you optimize things?
Right?
Like, you know, optimally.
Right?
Like, it's like, how do you how do you do thatpart that has been so forgotten essentially
over the years?
Yeah.
So I'm, yeah, I'm full believer thatconstruction is waking up, you know, from a 50
year slumber and saying, like, hey.
Like, we we can make things a little bitfaster, a little bit better.
(14:09):
Yeah.
Absolutely.
And that helps them close more homes sooner andand have a better outcome for the homeowner.
Certainly, you know, everybody's competing.
You think about, you know, the Pultes of theworld, the Linares, the Doctor Horton's, and,
you know, NVRs.
I mean, those are the big four.
I mean, obviously they're always competing witheach other, not to mention all the private home
builders out there, all the customs, you know,there's, there's a ton of competition in the
(14:33):
space and you've got every supplier andbuilding products company out there trying to
sell to those big home builders.
But production home building is not for thefaint of heart.
Right?
So it's not always smooth, especially whenyou're doing 50 to a 100000 homes a year.
And you're trying to bring all these differenttrades and all this different technology
together and then build a house on a, on aschedule.
(14:55):
So a homeowner can actually close and go livein that house.
So pretty difficult to do versus, you know,manufacturing and everything is in one nice
building and one nice production
line and comes off and finishes and goes in thetruck.
It
doesn't happen out in finishes and goes in atruck.
Doesn't happen out in construction world.
You know, a lot more products happening or alot more building product companies supporting,
(15:16):
you know, I'll call it, you know, they're doingmore off, off, off production, mark or excuse
me, off production making of their products,versus them building it in the field.
Right.
So they're doing more of that where they canframing some I'll call it mechanicals, but
(15:36):
there's just a long ways to go.
Right?
They're not rolling houses off production linesyet.
So
Yeah.
No.
I think that that's the especially because howwe want instant gratification as a society, or
or or many of society want that, that they wantthe we have the technology to be able to, you
know, have robots build houses.
(15:57):
So why aren't they doing?
Like, why isn't this just happening?
And it's, like, there's much more to that thanyou you think.
It's just the investment for a company to make.
Right?
It's just, like, structured companies aren't,you know, they're not, like, the highest margin
profitability industry in in the world by anymeans imagination.
So, like, where you invest, you know, money,it's, like, it matters.
(16:18):
And, like, when you're talking about veryforward thinking, those come at a cost.
So no.
Totally.
Oh, yeah.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
So, tell me more about Optimly.
Yeah.
So, Optimly, great company.
I've been working with them now for a few yearsand, worked with them on a number of different
things.
But, you know, I I probably have food andbeverage sector, home building, construction
(16:43):
companies, HVAC, plumbing, electrical trades,that are also their customers.
But they do a lot of work in the space where,you know, people are trying to automate things
that have gone and been manual for decades toyour point.
Right?
So, you know, they may have a NetSuite overhere doing bookkeeping.
(17:04):
And they may have a job bidding process that'son Excel and then their warranty, if they, if
they have a warranty program is typically doneon another worksheet or another workbook in
Excel or some other program that they homemade2 decades ago or whatever it might be.
Or they bought an enterprise system.
A lot of, you know, a lot of these companieshave bought these enterprise systems that help
(17:24):
them with scheduling, help them with costing,etcetera, but they don't always talk to
everything else that they've got going on.
So I have one example where a trade HVAC tradein the field, their employees would have to
take pictures in the field, bring it back tothe office, then upload it to a desktop for
(17:45):
that specific lot because of what they weredoing.
Or, I mean, they couldn't physically send itthrough a portal, or through any type of portal
that they had set up to upload directly to thecustomer without them doing anything, or to
that lot.
So using optimally, they were able to actuallyautomate that work, that workflow.
(18:05):
They put in an internal portal within thecompany.
So everything they assigned with those picturesautomatically got uploaded to that lot in their
system.
So there was no more work.
There was no more having to drive back to theoffice.
Windshield time costs money, right?
If you're in a trade.
So anything you can do to keep your frontlinein the field and your, hopefully your back
(18:28):
office lean and means so because obviously backoffice is overhead and expense.
So the leaner you can make that the better.
And then invest more in your front endresources that's making you revenue and making
you money.
So that's what Optimize is all about.
Right?
We like to take the work out of the back officeas much as possible, automate as much as we can
for the customer so they can spend more timedoing what they do best.
(18:51):
I mean, that's their trait and out there makingmoney and actually improving the customer's
lives that they're working with.
Yeah.
Client experiences, I feel like it's becomingmore and more the name of the game.
And I feel like you're always there's always anaspect of this, but I feel like now no matter
what you do, sell, create, like, the end users'experience is so crucial to your success rate.
(19:14):
Right?
Like, it's just what it is.
If you take, you know, Amazon major massivecompanies and, like, we only get that big.
It's like, yes.
Because they created an experience that wasamazing.
You'd say whatever you want about Amazon or anyof these big companies, but it's like the
reason they got to that size is because usersloved what they did.
Right?
Oh,
yeah.
And I think that that's that lesson, is weshould think about more and more.
(19:39):
Like, you know, having, like, what's the clientexperience?
Like, what's, you know, the speed of a job?
Right?
It's like, oh, man.
Like, we're on schedule.
Just being on time is amazing, which it shouldbe, you know, maybe bare minimums at times.
But, like, in this scenario, it's like, oh,yeah.
Like, we said that you're closing on, you know,January 30th, then that's when you're closing.
(20:01):
Like, and that's that's the date.
Oh, yeah.
And that would be home builders' dreams rightthere.
If they could forecast accurately, whichforecasting is the toughest thing.
Any home builder or trade will tell you that ifthere's one issue within the industry that is
common amongst everyone, it's forecastingbecause of delays.
It could be because of supply chain, but it'stypically due to construction schedules in the
(20:23):
field.
Right?
So, there are conflicting ones in there.
They're typically off sometimes up to 90 dayson scheduling, right?
There's lots of things that happen in thoseschedules.
But if you don't have a system that's helpingyou with, you know, all the construction
schedules behind it, along with all yoursuppliers, keep them informed.
I mean, some of them have great systems inplace, but not all the trades do, and not all
(20:48):
their suppliers do.
And that's where we come in and support them asbest we can and work with the home builders
themselves.
Yeah.
The the trades, especially when it's a smallershop, it becomes, you know, you can only be as
good as your lowest common denominator conceptwhere you start saying, like, I want speed, but
it's like, what if you're using a 3 man shopcompared to something else where it's like, I
(21:13):
would love to build your, you know, 700 homesin this community.
However, I just there's a load problem thatwe're gonna bump into or, you know, something
like that where it's just like, it doesn'talways work or or I my guys are sick or my
guy's sick that he can't get on-site today.
And then that throws everybody else off becauselike, oh, well, the drywall is not up.
(21:33):
How could I possibly, you know, put in acounter?
Or how could I possibly, you know, put in thenext finishings on top of that?
So Yeah.
Well, and labor is a major issue, right?
Especially on the front line for a lot of thesetrades, you can just pick a trade and they all
have labor shortages for the most
part.
So if you can invest more of your money andyour time into the front end and the facing
(21:55):
front facing, I call it, roles like installersor your crews out in the field versus, you
know, I need to hire another admin to track allthis stuff in my back office or another analyst
of some kind.
I mean, that doesn't really add value to yourbusiness.
Right?
That's just an overhead cost.
The other things hopefully are revenue, youknow, revenue generators.
(22:18):
And you're obviously invested more on you wannabe more invested in that than you you do in the
in the in the back office.
Right?
Oh, absolutely.
I mean, we talk about this all the time withtechnology.
And not even, like, you know, operation
Yeah.
In general.
Organization, but just as in general wherepeople wanna just keep throwing people at the
problem.
And it's like, that's not that doesn't makesense.
(22:41):
Right?
Let's just, like, no.
You just need to fix you like, you have aninfrastructure problem and you your systems
just don't run very fast.
It's like Mhmm.
You can actually do more work with the peopleyou have if you just invested a little bit of
money into your technology compared to, like,I'll just hire another 3 people that do the
same job as these 16 people, and we'll go fromthere.
And it's like you you're looking at it thewrong way.
(23:02):
Or, like, you're not looking at it as, oh, Ishould be way more intentional about where I'm
investing the money.
Yeah.
They're they I don't know what they used tocall it.
Used to call it something where, you know,mature maturing companies or early stage
companies, they get this, you know, thingsstart, you know, becoming a life on their own.
(23:23):
Right.
And all of a sudden you're spending money onthings that you didn't even know that you're
using.
They may have platforms or things theypurchased and that's where the enterprise stuff
comes in.
People buy things and they're like, well, Ididn't know it did any of these other things.
Well, they, they haven't really, they don'treally know how to use it part of it.
Right.
And then the other part of it is that, did theyeven need to purchase something that they
(23:48):
they're not really utilizing?
And we've had lots of clients go back and, and,you know, we've done the automation project and
decided, well, I don't really see a need forthis enterprise program.
And why am I spending 1,000 of dollars a month?
It's not really needed unless you're reallygoing to use every attribute of the enterprise
software.
(24:08):
It becomes pretty costly.
That completely agree.
So when you went when you went off on your ownthis year, this last year,
Yeah.
More full time, I'll call it.
Yeah.
You have more we have more full time.
Easier transition.
Great.
Because you were you're kinda you were doingthese things, and now it just became the main
thing.
That's like the the dream scenario foreverybody, but but that still has to come with
(24:34):
challenge.
I can only imagine.
So what what were some of those challenges thatyou kinda realized this year more so than
maybe, you thought?
Yeah.
You know, I I think it's a few things.
You know, scheduling your time, making sureyou're very planful with your time and
otherwise you get like squirrel disease, right?
You get squirrels everywhere.
There's, I've got, you know, dogs at home.
(24:56):
I've got kids to deal with.
I've got family here as well.
Right.
So, and I got other pet projects that I workon.
I work on motorcycles.
I enjoy riding.
There's lots of things I do, right.
Hunting, etcetera.
So, but if you're not plan full with your time,time can get away from you pretty quickly.
So if you're working on things, it's beingvery, very thoughtful about your week and
(25:18):
planning and logistics.
So I'm very big on that anyway.
And I like to be pretty thoughtful of, okay, ifI'm at work, I'm doing work and this is all I'm
going to focus on and get this project done orthat project done.
And there won't be, you know, I'm not perfect.
Everybody has their issues.
Right.
So there's times where I'm still going to getdistracted, but you know, if it's in my
(25:39):
schedule, if it's in my calendar, then it getsdone.
Right.
That's that's me.
So I I've become much more thoughtful about mydays weeks now than I was before because it's
just me.
I do some outsourcing of some work, that I havedone for me.
But at the end of the day, it's just me as theleader and the end and the owner of the
company.
(26:00):
But I'm working with, you know, 4 or 5 othercompanies.
And I have, actually dozens of companies whenyou think about some of the other things I, I
work on and deliver.
But, again, it's gotta be planned for them.
You gotta be, you know, for me, I've gotta planout my days months to make them make them
effective.
So that that was a big change for me.
(26:21):
So what, I guess, what were you doing prior tothis that prevented you from not prevented you,
but what were you doing prior to this that youweren't doing the main thing?
You know, you know, working at Ria.
So I'll I'll give you an exact couple ofexamples.
So I worked at Ria prior to this.
Again, another disruptive product, for homehome building production.
(26:44):
It's, it's it's uninsulated duct and componentsthat fit within the envelope of a home.
So much more energy efficient than yourconventional HVAC products that are out there.
You know, very disruptive product.
Awesome.
Been awesome for the industry, frankly.
So I was there four and a half years.
Still a significant investor in the in thecompany itself.
(27:05):
And, you know, startups, you know, you know, Iwas there with startups with no revenue, right?
So day, day 1, day 2, I'll call it, and then,kind of pre revenue.
So from there, building it from that to1,000,000 of dollars in revenue is a ton of
work and effort, and you're spending a lot oftime on the road traveling quite a bit in the
(27:25):
field, in the field with home builders, trades,distribution, working with your builder
investors and builder partners.
You know, I was busy all the time.
You know, my schedule is always full witheither my customers or my team, that I was
building as well.
Right.
And building a team nationally.
And it was a blast.
I had a great time.
(27:47):
You know, obviously the company continues toscale today, working with more builders and
continuing to grow.
We're still involved and supporting, wherever Ican of the Ria team.
But, you know, the change for me was when Idecided to, to leave Ria and do these other
things that I've been working, and, and reallygrow it into the business that it is today.
(28:10):
It was a transition because, you know, goingfrom a schedule that was somewhat dictated to
you because you get meetings and meetingnotices and travel schedules, and you don't
have a lot of control over some of thosethings.
Some of them you do, but some of them youdon't.
When you transition to a business and runningyour own business, like I have now, now it's,
well, there is nobody else in charge of it.
(28:31):
It's you.
Right.
So, yeah, I don't, I don't have to be involvedin a lot of meetings.
I'm I'm involved in the meetings I need to beinvolved in that the customer's paying me to be
involved in and then projects I work on.
And I'm, it's very focused, typically revenuegenerating, generating product, products or
projects, or, growing a company sales orwhatever it might be.
(28:53):
Right.
Or working with them on their team.
So, but I don't have to spend a lot of time onother things outside of the work I'm doing.
So that's where these other things come in thatI spend a lot more time on, which again is
solving an issue for a customer, prettyspecific one, whether it's, you know, rolling
out a financial wellness benefit, like my debtnavigator or, they need automation solutions,
(29:16):
like optimally, which I tend to see almost anycompany could use.
So, so I spend more, I, it's more of a flex,right?
I work on projects here with some customers.
And then over here, I'll work on enterprisetype projects, to support them more enterprise
wide on automation and, or, you know, benefitsthat they're looking for for their team.
(29:38):
Oh, okay.
So you used to run a team though.
I build out a team.
Is that a vision for the future or is it like,no, no, I'm more okay being a solo on myself?
Yeah.
You know, it's a really good question.
So I grew up in manufacturing supply chain,more in the food and beverage sector, craft
foods group.
This I was, well, craft foods was my cutting,cutting my teeth on, you know, running, big
(30:01):
manufacturing companies and running humanresources, frankly.
Cause I stumbled into human resources back thenand spent 12 years, with them.
And it was an awesome, awesome run.
I really enjoyed it, but, and I had massiveteams.
I mean, I had teams of 4,000 people.
I had teams of 10,000 people.
Then I went on to be the chief HR officer forRoundy Supermarkets, ended up taking on
(30:23):
manufacturing for them as well.
Again, food and beverage, and then retail.
We got bought by Kroger in 16.
I had 28,000 employees at that point, by thetime we were purchased.
And then from there, I went to Taylor MorrisonCorporation.
I was the chief HR there for 3 years.
We grew that business, some M and A.
Actually Kraft Foods M and A, Roundy's M and A,Taylor Morrison M and A.
(30:46):
So I've dealt with, I think, 9 merger andacquisition projects over that timeframe.
So I've dealt with 1,000 and 1,000 of teammembers.
I mean, when Kroger bought us and when I was atRoundy's, I think they were over a 110,000 team
members themselves.
I'm sure they're way north of that today.
So, no, I'm I'm okay being a solopreneur atthis point.
(31:08):
I'll call it.
I don't mind.
Yeah.
I'm I might build out a team yet.
I mean, I've got, again, lots of things I'mworking on.
So eventually I'll I'll either I've got tooffshore it or outsource it and or bring in my
own team, to support it depending on, what Iwant to focus on.
But I'm okay for now.
You know, it's one of those things where, youknow, I just hit 50 last year.
(31:30):
So, you know, I'm okay.
Kind of doing this on my own for a while andsee what I want to do future state.
So, you know, I it's one of those things whereI think I have a, I have a real niche and love
for what I do, but I also, you know, I'm stillopen there.
I know I never I never know if I really wannagrow up and, you know, figure out what I wanna
do with my life.
(31:51):
I I kinda like this area of discovery.
That's the best way I could describe you.
In all of our interactions, it just feels like,yes, you you have a skill set that is is great
and you love it and it's cool, but you're alsonever one to say no.
Like, I don't like, you know, I'm I'm justtotally not interested in an idea.
(32:14):
Like, I'm always open to hear a new idea and,you know, not gonna do everything I hear.
But, like, I'm always willing to maybe take ona different idea because if it makes sense and
it fits into the structure that you're tryingto build for your business in life, it's like,
why not?
Like, it just it seems oh, you're alwaysdiscovering.
(32:34):
You're always being very inquisitive.
Yeah.
And I think that's a key to life.
Right?
I mean, if you're not learning, you're notearning.
Right?
So I mean, that's just one of those things forme.
And frankly, a few of these things that I'mworking on, I, if I wasn't open to it, I would
have stayed in my, my real narrow niche ofhuman resources, which is, you know, again,
expanded over the years and there's lots ofthings I can do with it, but I really enjoy,
(32:57):
you know, my roots of operations.
That's what I grew up doing.
And then bringing back the kind of theautomation work and that, I mean, I enjoy it.
I mean, if I, if I was more, here's what I didfor 20 years and I'm not doing anything else
and I would have never learned any of theseother things that obviously can help that
department and that part of an organization,but now I can help the entire organization.
(33:20):
It's just not one part of it.
Right.
I can entire, you know, all the parts of it.
So it's a lot more fun.
And, you know, branching out into operationswith Rio was a great experience.
Alan Lang was, you know, my CEO and mentor andstill is.
He's a terrific guy.
Been in home building operations for 30 plusyears.
(33:41):
He's slightly older than me.
I hope he's listening to this headset, but he'sa terrific, terrific guy.
And he's one of those leaders that have taughtme as well.
I mean, you know, be open to certainexperiences, right?
You're going to learn a lot more and you'regoing to be a better, you know, well rounded
leader because of it.
And being open to the criticism that comes withit.
Right.
(34:01):
Cause you're going to learn.
You're probably going to make a few mistakes.
Just don't make the big ones, make small ones,learn a lot along the way and, you know, keep
sharpening your saw.
Right.
So, so I learned a lot, you know, working withhim as EVP of operations for Ria and yeah, I
really heavily enjoyed that role.
That's what will make me never go back to justbeing an HR leader.
(34:23):
Not that that's a bad thing.
It's just that I branched out beyond that and Ireally enjoy the operation side.
And I was in HR
for, like, a week.
It was great.
Oh,
there you go.
Yet what I learned in the 1st week of trainingis you're not allowed to date secretaries.
And then I was no longer allowed to be in HR.
But this it became my wife.
(34:44):
So this is not, you know Yeah.
Yeah.
A horrible tale here by any means ofimagination.
But it was hilarious because it was I wascaught because I was running the Chicago
marathon at the time, and her mom had donated,like, a $100 to my charity or something.
And my boss is, like, was going to donate forthe firm and then was, like, well, that's odd.
How could Justin possibly know Jamie's motherwho lives in Tennessee while, like, there'd be
(35:09):
no rational reason for this?
And then yeah.
So
And then you landed in IT?
Yeah.
And then yeah.
And then I landed in an IT firm that I I don'tyou know, not the expert of IT.
I mean, look at this is this is wild.
This is how, saying yes to ideas and
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Can bring you in all kinds of places.
And now similar to you.
(35:29):
Right?
Love love good operations.
I love how that works.
Sales and marketing, love that.
I love storytelling as, podcast and culturecomponents go.
So, one day maybe I'll grow up too, but itit'll be a long time from now, I think.
Hopefully not.
I hope you never do.
Right.
Enjoy the journey.
Right.
It it's too short as it is.
So, yeah, I hope you never do.
(35:50):
I hope I never do.
I really don't want to grow up.
Not to that extent because, you know, I alwayswant to learn new things and experience new
things, and that's spice of life.
Right?
Experiences.
I wish I had the absorption power of a 4 yearold when I look at, Franklin, and he's, like,
learn he learned anything instantly effectivelybecause it's just, like, so much they absorb so
(36:10):
quickly.
And I'm like, man, if I still had that ability,I I would be I would know every I would know
everything possible, because I just I'm alwaysinterested in asking questions.
Yeah.
Be curious.
Be curious.
I love it.
Be curious.
Always, always be curious.
So, you've mentioned a bunch of cool stuffhappening this year.
What what's on the docket plan that you canshare with me and listeners?
(36:32):
Well, I mean, yeah.
So a couple of things is, you know, workingwith Levin today, which is the lighting
automation company I mentioned earlier, we'vegot a bunch of great, awesome work coming up
with them, working with some of these bignational builders.
So can't say too much.
I can't wipe the cat out of the bag yet.
Yeah.
I'm really, really excited about the firstcouple of quarters coming up here and, you
(36:55):
know, the work we've got going on with some ofthe, you know, the biggest home builders in the
nation.
Couple of them are in the top, top are calledthe top 4.
Right.
So, pretty exciting.
And then we've got a bunch of other builderswe're working with too that we're really
excited in top 20 or so.
You know, it it's fun to see builders look atthe technology and go, is it really this
(37:16):
simple?
Is it really that easy?
Cause innovation isn't easy, right?
And implementation is still hard.
It doesn't matter how good the product is.
Change management is change management.
So it's been really fun to be part of thejourney with them and helping them grow with
these, builders and builders, and then,supporting their journey on US manufacturing at
(37:37):
some point, and bringing manufacturing into theUS from Edmonton, because that's where they're
based out of today.
But just a terrific story, terrific, homebuilding products company.
And that's been, I think it's gonna be afantastic year.
I know it's gonna be, and that's gonna be funfor everybody to see it because it's gonna
unfold right in front of us.
Big disruptive, opportunity for a lot ofpeople.
(37:58):
To come.
Love that.
Love the teaser.
Yeah.
It's a bit of a teaser on 11th.
And I've got the other things that I'm workingon with Optimly and then, my debt navigator,
the financial wellness benefit.
I'm actually working with several differentcompanies right now.
They're all in, you know, some are 20,000,000 ayear in revenue.
(38:19):
I've got 2 at 20,000,000,000 in revenue.
It depends on your flavor, right, of whatyou're what you're needing.
Automation is typically kind of anything under700,000,000 a year.
Automation comes in, the fold pretty good from1,000,000 a year to 700,000,000 a year.
You spend a lot of time in that, in thoseranges, working with those companies, helping
(38:40):
them automate and build out automation.
The my debt navigator financial wellnessbenefit.
That's good for any company over 20 employees.
Since anybody's got 20 or more employees andthey're looking for a financial wellness
benefit, the rollout, then it's free to themand they can obviously co brand as well.
So that's another opportunity.
So I'm working with, you know, big food andbeverage companies.
(39:01):
Those are the $1,000,000,000 ones.
And then I'm working with, you know,contractors that are 2, 300 employees, you
know, all the way up to 15,000 employees.
So the range is out there, right?
I've got one that's 50 employees, that I'mworking with.
But I'm doing lots of those things.
Cause I it's a feel good work on top of lovingwhat you do.
(39:23):
I mean, you're changing people's lives, right?
Automation is making hopefully jobs easier andsimpler for companies to execute on the front
end.
My debt navigator is taking a huge debt loadoff of people and helping them really focus on
their work and their personal lives whilereducing and giving them more cash flow.
I think that's huge.
(39:44):
Right?
You're changing people's lives through benefitslike that.
The other one's self employed tax credit.
I mean, there's a tax credit out there for10.90 nines and those that are self employed.
It's up to $32,000 a year, or up to $32,000from 2021.
A lot of trades that use 10.90 nines and, youknow, there's lots of us individual business
(40:05):
owners that can apply for it.
I, I, you know, I've rolled that out to severalindividuals and companies, the supported
people.
And again, you wouldn't think it would be a bigdeal, but you talk to a single mother who's
raising 2 or 3 kids and, you know, they're selfemployed due to COVID 2020 already, and they
get a 16,000.
(40:26):
Well, that was a game changer for them at theend of the year last year.
So it's a huge, huge upside for them.
Maybe that's life changing money that, youknow, they didn't even know it was available to
them.
So so doing things like that outside of theconsulting, which I might be part time CHRO.
I might be a part time COO.
(40:48):
I might be, working on a specific project,helping a company grow, but then I get to do
these other things that help change thousandsof lives.
And it's really through programs that cansupport companies and or individuals, right?
That people don't realize that are out there.
So yeah, it's a value add.
You know, I like working with things that arereally value added to people because that's,
(41:10):
you know, at this point in my career, that'sreally what it's about.
It's it's more about how do you bring morevalue to somebody in a company that didn't even
know was out there existed.
Yeah.
What, this might be a big big question.
It could be.
I've I don't think I've asked you this.
Sure.
So what what do you maybe you know or maybe youdon't know, and maybe we'll try to discover it
(41:31):
right now.
What do you feel your purpose is?
Right?
Like, we all have x amount of time, on on thisrock.
And our goal should be to figure out what thatpurpose is, and then then run with that purpose
until we're no longer on this rock.
Right?
So what is your purpose or what do you maybethink it is?
You know, I I've gravitated towards small andmidsized businesses.
(41:55):
That's where I've spent a lot of my energy asof late.
And it's really about helping them be better,not only operationally, but, you know,
certainly be successful companies.
Right.
So I think my purpose has really been about howdo I help them do that or help them?
How do I help them achieve something that theydidn't think was possible?
And then on the individual side, I'll call itindividuals that I work with with all these
(42:19):
companies on these programs.
Yeah.
To me, it's about how do you make a personalimpact on thousands of people.
Right?
I mean, and help change their lives for thebetter, maybe even generationally.
Right?
So, you know, if you give them the opportunityand invest in them and then help them with,
like, debt.
Right?
Debt is an issue.
It's, you know, average debt, personal bad I'llcall it bad debt, excluding mortgages hours per
(42:45):
individual out there.
That's the average debt load of credit cards,school, tuition, debt to, you know, whatever.
Right.
Call it, call it, whatever you think about adebt.
And if it's not mortgage, it's it's probablybad, right?
Unless it's business debt, but all thatpersonal debt added up.
I mean, it weighs on people, those paymentsweigh on people.
(43:06):
So if you can help take that away or reduce itin half, or, you know, whatever you can do to
support them on that and put a program inplace, that's going to do it and execute it for
them.
That's huge.
That that's a that's a game changer.
Money is the number one issue people fight on.
You know, families, with each other, that's thenumber one issue.
So if you can take that number one issue andattack it, with something that is pretty
(43:32):
deliberate, that makes you, I mean, you makesome money along the way, but you actually feel
really good about what you're doing.
Same thing with automation.
Right?
I mean, if I can help improve people's livesthrough automation and the fact that they might
even love their job again, because they atesome of the work that they're doing.
And if that was taken away, then they couldreally focus on, by the way, I could be
(43:52):
developed in growing this business.
I could be developed in a better job at mycurrent, you know, current company.
If some of this was out of my way, because I'dhad the time to do it.
I mean, what's better than that.
Right.
You're investing in people's lives throughthese things.
I, I think that's the point of it.
Right?
I mean, you're only on this rock for so much.
(44:13):
Right.
You only got so much time, so you had to takeadvantage of it while you're here.
I completely agree.
We just, did a delegate LVA sheet, which is anEOS tool.
This says like, here are the things you loveand do well or do great.
Here are things you like and do pretty good.
Here are things you don't really like, butyou're pretty good at.
And then here's things you're not good at andyou hate.
Right?
(44:33):
And it's like these quadrants, and it's like,how do you get those bottom 2 quadrants off
your plate?
Right?
And there's so many opportunities that theycould be automate.
Right?
Because, like, not many people like data entry.
Right?
For instance, it's like Right.
Not many people are just jonesing to sit infront of an Excel sheet and change the cells.
Right?
Like, that's generally most people don't feelthat way.
(44:55):
If you if you do feel that way, please let me,you know, somebody, a listener, reach out
because we're gonna have a long conversationabout this.
But nonetheless, like, that's generally a thingthat people don't care for, and it's super
optimized.
Like, you can you can use automation tooptimize this and not and this isn't even,
like, crazy dollars to do this depending onwhat you're doing.
(45:15):
Like, this is something that you just have to,like, realize that you hate it and then find a
way to get it off your plate, which is theconcept of, you know, delegate and elevate.
And sometimes that's people, but other timesit's just using automation.
Right?
So I think us doing that internally, we do itevery quarter, gives us a good view there.
And I actually had somebody do this in one ofmy, impact roundtables.
(45:38):
And they said they saved, like, 50 hours.
And I'm like, oh, my
god.
Wow.
And I was, like, bath.
Right?
I was like,
that's awesome.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's amazing, amazing to hear.
So it's just like, oh, yeah.
Once you realize the things that you don'twanna do, you can totally love your job or
career again.
Right?
Because it's like, I hate doing this, but if Iget that off my plate, I love all this rest of
(45:59):
the stuff.
And then it it changes your whole outlook andthen your trajectory.
Right?
Depending on how big your company is and andwhere you wanna get to in that ladder.
That's just it's just a way to do that usingautomation.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think that's awesome.
So if you're able to impact people's lives, I Imean, I for me anyway, that would that would be
my personal mission.
Right?
If we can impact people's lives positivelythrough things that they didn't even realize
(46:23):
that could be done, you know, why wouldn't youwanna deliver something like that?
You can deliver fun and money, right, all atthe same time.
It's the best kind of money.
It's fun money.
It's it's yeah.
It's the best kind of money.
Exactly.
This is, this has been awesome.
I'm gonna leave social links and all that kindof stuff in the show notes.
But if somebody wanted to get a hold of you,Jesse, what's the best way for them to do that?
Well, they can either reach out to me onLinkedIn, Jesse Terry on LinkedIn, or
(46:47):
blueoceanedgeconsulting.com is my website.
If you wanna go out to that, or you can you canemail blueoceanedge@gmail.com or my personal
cell phone.
There it is.
There's all of it.
This is great.
Is there anything else you wanna tell thepeople before we say our goodbyes?
No.
Hey, I appreciate it, Justin.
Thanks for the time.
And, hey, I hope everybody has a fantastic2025.
(47:09):
It's going to be a awesome year.
There's lots and lots of things going on.
You know, the industry continues to disruptwhether you're in construction or not.
It doesn't even matter what industry you're inanymore.
It's it's more about getting out there and andand learning.
Right?
Networking.
And don't be afraid to take a risk or 2.
It's a good thing.
It's good for your blood.
No.
I agree.
(47:29):
It is good for your blood.
Alright, listeners.
This has been fun.
I hope you enjoyed it as much as the time Idid.
And until next time, adios.
Alright.
Thanks for listening to Building Scale.
To help us reach even more people, please sharethis episode with a friend, colleague, or on
social media.
Remember, the 3 pillars of scaling a businessare people, process, and technology.
(47:54):
And our mission is to help the AEC industryprotect itself by making technology easy.
So if you think your company's technologypillar could use some improvement, book a call
with us to see how we can help maximize your ITcybersecurity strategy.
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