November 5, 2024 • 57 mins
Sarah Card shares her journey from overcoming the 2008 financial crisis to founding GC Legacy Construction and successfully navigating the challenges posed by COVID-19. She discusses securing Starbucks as a client and scaling the business through core values and long-term thinking. Sarah emphasizes the importance of daily reinforcement of these values and the strategic decision to bring trades in-house to drive growth. The conversation explores cultural integration, operational changes, and building new trades, along with offering logistics solutions that add value beyond construction.
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(00:00):
We're absolutely active GC.
(00:02):
So we have, yeah, we have
a longer term strategic vision of where wewanna go with this business.
And we're we're well on our way to achievingthat.
So we don't wanna be the paper pusher GC.
Like, we we feel like we can give a much betterclient experience when we can control a lot
more of what's happening than just subbingeverything out.
(00:25):
There's always gonna be things that we aregonna subcontract, and we have amazing
subcontractor relationships that we value verymuch.
So we don't want those to ever go awayentirely.
But we so one of the first things that we didwas to bring in the plumbing company last year.
That was the first strategic move of let'sbring that trade in house.
We also want to bring in, electrical and HVACbecause those are the biggest those are the
(00:51):
biggest needs.
MEP.
MEP right there.
Have you ever wondered how successfularchitecture, engineering, and construction
companies scale their business?
Or have you ever wanted guidance on how to getmore growth, wealth, and freedom from your AEC
company?
Well, then you are in luck.
(01:11):
Hi.
I'm Will Foratt.
And I'm Justin Nagel, and we're your podcasthosts.
We interview successful AEC business leaders tolearn how they use people, process, and
technology to scale their businesses.
So sit back and get ready to learn from theindustry's best.
This is Building scale.
(01:33):
Hey, listeners.
It's Will here.
Our mission is to help the AEC industry protectitself by making technology easy.
If you've ever listened to our show, then youknow that the 3 pillars of scaling a business
are people, process, and technology.
So if you suspect technology is your weak link,then book a call with us to see where we can
help maximize your company's IP cybersecuritystrategy.
(01:56):
Just go to building scale dot net slash help.
Today's guest is Sarah Carr, cofounder of GCLegacy Construction.
She has 20 plus years of experience inconstruction and financial services and is
passionate about leadership and peopledevelopment.
GC Legacy was founded in 2019, specializes inquick serve retail and single tenant spaces
(02:20):
with services including roundup construction,tenant improvements, and renovations.
They focus on value engineering, providingefficient high quality projects within budget,
and their mission is to simplify theconstruction process without compromising time,
quality, or budget.
And with that said, Sarah, welcome to the show.
Thank you so much.
Thanks for having me.
(02:40):
Excited to sit down and talk with you guystoday.
Yeah.
We're excited too.
We, one, always great when it's somebody inArizona because, you know, that means that my
side of the world is doing big, bad, coolstuff, compared to Will's side in in Chicago
there.
So it's always really cool in that regard.
And then, also that usually means I couldprobably, sneak you out for lunch or a drink or
(03:01):
coffee or something.
So that's always another benefit.
Yes.
Let's do it for sure.
Awesome.
So I said these the nice things about youcertainly, but give us the give us the
background.
Tell us the the origin story.
Tell us, how the company was founded, and tellus why it's so great.
Awesome.
Happy to do that.
So I get asked that question a lot is how didyou end up in construction?
(03:23):
And it is actually a really long story with alot of crazy twists.
They'll probably surprise you along the way.
So I will start back at the very beginning, Iguess.
I was born and raised in Montana, and myparents always had their own business.
So I grew up in kind of that entrepreneurialworld.
And after I graduated high school, reallywasn't sure what I wanted to do.
(03:47):
Thought I might wanna go into sportsbroadcasting, but had, you know, a change of
plans and ended up being blessed with a babywhen I was 19 years old, which kinda changed
the trajectory of where I was gonna go.
So my sister at the time had ended up, going toschool in San Diego, California, and she
convinced me to pack up and move down there.
(04:09):
So that is what I did.
Packed up, moved down to San Diego, and I wentto work for an engineering firm.
That's kinda where where I got my start.
Didn't really know what I was gonna do, so justreally started at the bottom.
Started as a receptionist answering phones.
And really just went from there, to kinda startbuilding out my career still not really knowing
(04:30):
what I wanted to do with the rest of my life.
Met my husband in San Diego, my now husband atthe time.
I met him in San Diego.
When we got married, we decided, that we wantedto raise kids in Montana and not raise kids in
California.
And so we packed up and moved back up toMontana, at that time.
(04:51):
And my husband had actually graduated fromcollege and had gone to work for a real estate
company, and they were doing mostlymultifamily.
So they were buying apartment buildings,gathering groups of investors together and
buying apartment buildings.
But when we decided to move to Montana, Iwasn't sure what I was gonna do, and he loved
what he was doing.
(05:12):
So we decided, let's start our own business.
So we've decided to start our own business inreal estate.
So we moved back up to Montana, the amazingFlathead Valley, very northwest corner of
Montana, small town called Kalispell.
Most people know Whitefish now because it isthe it's the hot spot, the touristy area, but
we were in the the less known part.
(05:32):
Has a Whitefish shirt.
I don't know if she's ever actually been there,but she has a shirt because people comment on
it.
Oh, Whitefish.
And then she's like, yeah.
Yeah.
She has and that she knows what it is.
I know that.
Kalispell used to be the big town and actuallyis still size wise bigger, but Whitefish is
definitely the the hot spot, the touristy area.
They've got all the the good stuff up there.
(05:53):
So so yeah.
So we, bought a couple of apartment buildings.
He did exactly what he was doing in California,raised, funds from people that we knew and
bought 2 apartment buildings, and we kindastarted our our business from there.
Decided then that he really liked the landdevelopment space, so we thought we'd try our
(06:14):
hand at that and bought our first project anddid land development, and we're really getting
that going.
And then 2,008 hit.
And I don't know if you guys remember 2,008,but it was it was quite an interesting time in
our lives.
And so we that that real estate business reallyjust died.
I mean, there was and and really the biggerissue was the lack of lending.
(06:37):
I think if the lending hadn't frozen up the waythat it did, we probably would have been able
to weather that storm.
But with the projects we were doing, we justeverything got super tight.
And so we were like, well, what do we do now?
We have this business that isn't a businessanymore.
And he had met somebody through the course ofthis that lived in Dallas, Texas.
(06:59):
And they he was a real estate broker that wasstill doing multifamily, and he asked my
husband, Brent.
He said, why don't you come down and work forme?
So at this time by this time, we had 3 kids,and they were little.
The youngest was 3.
I think they were 3, 5, and 12.
They were, yeah, 3511, somewhere around thatage.
So we packed up our whole lives and moved toDallas, Texas where we knew nobody other than
(07:25):
this guy that my husband was gonna go and workfor.
So, closed down the business, moved to Texas.
My husband went to work for this real estatebroker.
I was like, I don't know what I'm gonna do.
I guess I'll just, you know, stay home for alittle bit and try and figure it out while you
get your thing up and going.
And that year, the guy that he worked fordecided to, you know, said he was going on
(07:48):
vacation, for Thanksgiving, and he never cameback.
And so Woah.
Wow.
Yeah.
So here we are.
We picked up, moved our whole lives.
My husband's working, and all of a sudden, thatbusiness is now gone too.
And we're like, what are we gonna do?
So I had a skill set that I had built upthrough the work that I had done, not only
(08:11):
doing administration, but by that point, I hadalso started to do bookkeeping starting at the
very beginning of discounts payable, moved intoreceivables, and then started really just doing
end to end bookkeeping.
So I had that skill set.
And so I just went out and started looking fora job, while he was, of course, also looking
for work at the same time, but my skill set wasmuch more applicable to really anything.
(08:33):
And I landed at a construction company.
This is coming around full circle, you guys.
I'm getting there.
So, yeah, so I went to work for a constructioncompany, and they were in the process of
starting up a facilities maintenance divisionwhere we were gonna go in.
Gold's Gym was the client, and we had theseservice techs that would go into Gold's Gym and
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just do their service work, you know, changinglight bulbs, fixing leak leaky faucets, just
the little things, then we'd go in on a regularbasis.
Well, I got put in charge of helping run thatdivision and building that division out,
building the operations for that.
And so I had at that point, I think I'd builtit up to about 6 technicians that were working
(09:15):
for me.
And, one of them ended up breaking his leg,unfortunately, and was gonna be out for at
least 6 weeks.
And I was scrambling.
Like, what do I do?
Like, we have this client to service.
I've gotta figure something out.
Well, my brother, who is 7 years younger thanme, was in Montana at the time, and he was kind
of at that stage where he was like, I don'tknow what I'm gonna do with the rest of my
(09:39):
life.
And his background was all construction.
He had started from the very beginningpainting, framing, I mean, all of the rough
jobs all the way up to, like, building, doingfinish work for these $1,000,000 homes.
So he was really good at what he was doing, butjust, again, in that same place of where I
wanna go for the rest of my life.
I'm like, well, while you're figuring that out,can you come down to Texas and fill in for this
(10:02):
guy?
Because I know that you can handle all thestuff.
I don't have to train you.
And he was like, sure.
So he moved down to fill in, and he never left.
Wow.
Yes.
That that that's a real, bait hook and catchright there.
Yes.
For sure.
Yeah.
So moved to Texas, ended up staying in Texas.
(10:22):
Fast forward a few years, I didn't end upstaying at that construction company, and I
decided to take a completely different leap.
And I went to work in corporate for JPMorganChase.
So natural, you know, transition.
Transition.
With them.
Right?
Yes.
So I, yeah, left that space and went into thecorporate world, and it was an amazing
(10:44):
experience.
I met amazing people.
I mean, I my skill set grew so much in thatspace, but I always, in the back of my mind,
kinda knew I don't corporate's not for me.
I love the smaller town the small biz smallbusiness feel, the family feel, not so much of
the bureaucracy, and just, you know, I justknew that that's kinda where eventually we
(11:05):
wanted to do something different.
My husband was in the same boat.
He actually was working for Chase at the timeas well.
And same thing.
We'd had our own business, and he waspassionate about that real estate space and
really wanted to get back there.
My brother stayed at that construction companyin the meantime, and, they had actually so one
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of one of the one of the biggest clients wewere working with in that space was Starbucks.
So my brother was kind of in charge of runningthose projects on-site.
He was the on-site superintendent for those andbuilt some really great relationships.
That sector of the business ended up moving outto a new business with one of the other
gentlemen that had worked there, and my brotherwent with him to go work for that business.
(11:50):
Well, one summer, fast forward, summer of 2019,we were up in Montana at our favorite place in
the world on the lake, at our little familycabin that we've had since the forties and
sitting around the campfire and talking.
And I just said, I I'm ready to be done.
Like, I wanna do something different.
And my brother said, well, guess what?
(12:11):
So do I.
Like so we said, let's start our own business.
What should we do?
And he's like, well, we know construction.
I know construction.
I can do that space.
And so it was that sitting around thatcampfire, the 3 of us decided we were gonna
start GC Legacy Construction.
Okay.
Yeah.
So 2019, you started, Legacy Construction, butwhat about the clients?
(12:37):
What clients?
What are you servicing?
Talk to us about that.
Because that, the backstory, I promise, totallyworth the backstory.
Because when we started digging into this inthe pre pre call, I was like, oh my god.
There's so much to unpack here.
Yeah.
So started from literally 0.
Right?
(12:58):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Brand new company
we had.
So initially, our idea was the the gentlemanthat he was working for, we were gonna buy that
company because my brother had these reallystrong Starbucks relationships.
But to build for a company like Starbucks, theyhave pretty strict requirements about you need
to be qualified to be able to build for them.
(13:19):
And a couple of those qualifications were youhad to be in business for 3 years, and you had
to have at least 3,000,000 in revenue for eachof those 3 years.
Those were like baseline requirements.
And we knew, well, if we're a brand newcompany, we're not gonna meet any of those
requirements.
What are we gonna do?
So we worked with the gentleman that he wasworking with, working for to try to buy that
(13:42):
business.
Because he was at this place that gentleman wasat the place where his business was kinda
running along, but he really didn't have anyinterest in growing that business and making it
into what my brother knew that it could be.
And was kind of holding my brother back in theway that, like, not letting him grow and and
see his his full talent.
(14:04):
And so we thought, okay.
Well, let's buy the business.
Because if we buy the business, the licensecomes with it.
So that was essentially what we would have beenbuying.
So we started those negotiations.
We had everything ready to go.
We got almost to the finish line, and he justthe guy decided he didn't wanna sell the
company.
Oh, man.
And Let down.
Yep.
Yeah.
(14:24):
And so my brother just said, well, I don'twanna stay here, so he quit.
So Mic drop.
Mic drop.
Right?
So now my brother's out of work.
We've got our jobs.
We're ready to start this company, and we have0 clients.
Like, this is not what we plan to do.
So we're like, that's okay.
We'll just we'll just start.
(14:45):
We'll we'll grow at the you know, he had acouple other contacts from when he had worked
in the construction space.
So thought we'll go out and we'll just startbuilding this, and we'll wait our 3 years, and
we'll we'll build up our business, and we'll goback to Starbucks in 3 years when we're ready
to qualify, and and we'll go from there.
And that was in, probably about January, end ofDecember 2019.
(15:08):
And then a little thing called COVID happens.
Oh, yeah.
Yep.
That that might that that might be almost asbad as, 2008, 2009.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We've definitely we have definitely learned alot of lessons and have some trying times
through all this.
But you know what?
(15:29):
We wouldn't be where we are today without goingthrough that stuff.
So I don't ever look back at any of it and andbe angry about it because they're I mean, it's
been invaluable.
Like, we've we've had to do things that wewouldn't have normally had to do, which makes
you appreciate things when they do work the waythat they're supposed to.
So so, yeah, COVID happens, and, obviously, theconstruction business pretty much shuts down at
(15:52):
least for quite a period of time.
Mhmm.
And so we we just did what we could and got thesmall jobs that we could.
In the meantime, my husband and I stayed withour corporate jobs because we knew there's no
way this business can support 3 of us.
Mhmm.
So we did what we needed to do to make surethat my brother could focus on going out and
(16:15):
build you know, reconnecting with thoserelationships he had.
And we did end up getting one particularproject, which was a ground up shell building
for a Starbucks, actually in Arizona.
So that was the plan originally was to startthe business in Arizona.
My brother and his family were gonna move, andwe wanted to build our business here because
this is where we all wanted to be.
(16:36):
So the first project we did was in, Cave Creek,Arizona, and it was for a developer.
So we built the exterior shell.
And then Starbucks comes in and does theinterior finish out.
It's usually how most of these work.
Starbucks doesn't own most of their realestate, so we'll come in and do the interior
finish outs.
This one, we got to build the shell.
The project was a challenge.
(16:57):
And, again, it's one of those things where ifit had been an easy one, I don't think we would
have had any appreciation for what it takes tostart a business.
Right.
This one put us through the ringer for sure,but we ended up getting it done.
And what happened through the course of thatproject is the interior finish out, Starbucks
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was having a very difficult time with thedeveloper that owns the building.
There were a lot of things that, it just wasnot a good it didn't end up being a very good
deal, a very good relationship.
But because we knew the Starbucks side so wellfrom the work that, you know, my brother had
done through all those years for them, we wereable to actually help on the interior finish
(17:43):
out and work on those relationships.
And through that, there was one of the higherup people in Starbucks ended up visiting this
project, which they wouldn't normally visit.
But because it was so contentious with what washappening, he ended up being on-site a lot.
Well, he he knew my brother.
He had known of my brother from their pastrelationships, so they had a chance to kinda
(18:04):
rekindle that relationship.
And we went so out of our way to make thatproject successful for Starbucks that he said,
I'm going to sponsor you guys, and we're gonnago through.
They have basically a not an appeal process,but basically a process that if you're
sponsored by somebody within Starbucks, theycan do a review and determine you'll make an
(18:26):
exception on these requirements to be able togive you your vendor license.
And so we were fortunate enough.
He went to bat for us.
He sponsored us, and we got our vendor'slicense.
And
Oh, man.
That is the way to do it.
So instead of having to wait for 3 years andbuild up revenue business, you now have yet to
prove yourself.
That wouldn't have happened if you didn't do,like, an amazing job and went totally out of
(18:48):
your way.
So Mhmm.
So there's definitely other ways to go aboutit.
Yeah.
There's a little bit of history and knowingsomeone, but you still have to do a good job.
Like, a really great job to be able to do that.
So okay.
Yep.
So you're able to shortcut that process andwe'll and I'm putting in quotes shortcut
because I'm sure that because, the learninglessons beforehand is definitely not
(19:14):
shortcutting.
Yeah.
So you quote, unquote shortcut that process.
What did that do for you?
So what that did is we were able to then goback to all of the other people within
Starbucks that my brother had built these greatrelationships with and let them know, hey.
We're back in business.
And they were so excited that all of a suddenwe started getting work.
(19:36):
Like, hey.
Bid on this for us.
You guys can bid on this job, bid on this job.
Well, all those jobs happen to be in Texas, notArizona.
Yep.
Yep.
Yeah.
So here we are again.
Now we're back to back to Texas.
And so that is, to this day, where ourcorporate office is is in Dallas, Texas, and
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that's where we've decided to really build thehub of the business.
We're expanding out into all kinds of otherstates now, but that is really how we got back
to the hub of where where our business is.
So to give some idea of size, where are you at?
So we're in 2024.
Yeah.
3 quarters of the way through 2024, where areyou at?
(20:19):
Where are we gonna end up at by the end of theyear?
Revenue wise.
Sure.
Revenue, employees, all the above.
So both.
So we we will end the year this year withabout, I think, 36 employees.
Awesome.
And, our revenue will be at about probablyaround 21,000,000 this year.
(20:39):
And Very good.
Context, when we the year that we got ourlicense, so that was in 2022, I think we ended
up doing about 9,000,000 9 or 10,000,000 inrevenue that year.
And then last year, we ended the year justunder 16,000,000, and this year, we'll do
21,000,000.
So very rapid growth.
(20:59):
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Very rapid scaling.
Yeah.
And we actually, ended up acquiring a plumbingcompany last year as well.
So that that has employee.
Employee number and revenue and opened up awhole new set of learning opportunities.
And yeah.
Learning opportunities.
I love that.
Learning opportunities.
(21:21):
Before we dive into some of those learningopportunities, I wanna talk more about
relationships.
Right?
So, you know, obviously, building scale, webelieve people process technology.
That is the way you scale.
People not only internally, but externally.
Right?
Like, how the relationships you build, becomehuge.
How do you how do you make those relationshipsdeep to to the point where, hey, like, we're
(21:42):
back in business and then, then, oh my god.
Hooray.
Let's let's go.
Like, you know, that it was almostinstantaneous overnight of, like, hey, we got
this opportunity that we knocked it out of thepark in Arizona, which then got sponsored,
which then got our vendor license back, whichnow let's now we're gonna explode.
Yeah.
Let's let's talk about how how do you how doyou how does, you know, Legacy think about
(22:05):
relationships in that regard?
They're everything.
I mean, honestly, our relationships areeverything.
So, one of my mentors that we've I've metrecently over the last couple years is Brandon
Dawson.
And one of the things that he says all the timeis collaboration is the new currency, and that
is absolutely one of the foundations of ourbusiness.
We cannot do things without people.
(22:26):
You cannot grow and scale a business withoutpeople.
And I think a lot of business owners get stuckin feeling like they have to do everything
because they know how to do it the best.
Right?
And we do.
That's you wouldn't start a business if youdidn't know how to do exactly what you are
doing, but you can't scale that businesswithout duplicating yourself into other people.
(22:48):
So you're right, Justin.
It's not just the internal people, which areeverything, by the way.
Like, our internal people, they really areeverything.
But it is those external relationships as well.
And I think the way GC legacy thinks aboutrelationships is that's the whole foundation of
our business.
We we are in this to build those types of longterm relationships because it it's not always
(23:14):
about the bottom dollar.
Right?
We're in business to make money.
Everybody is.
But there are times when the money doesn'tmatter.
If we need to make something right and it meansit's gonna cost us, we're gonna make it right
because it's the right thing to do.
That is really the foundation of we are gonnatake care of people.
We wanna treat people the way that we wouldexpect to be treated.
That's how that's how we view relationships.
(23:35):
Wow.
I love that.
I mean, that goes right along with SpotMigrations, core values.
Do the right thing is they're not aspirational.
That that is a core value of ours.
So I love hearing that.
We're all we have money to make, plenty to goaround.
Sometimes you eat a little bit, a little bitless.
(23:57):
But in the end, you know, right, it's the longterm thinking versus the short term thinking.
Yep.
And that little bit can help put you over thehump for long term, whether it's survival, long
term, just being able to do way better from abusiness perspective and help all the employees
out.
Right?
Yeah.
So okay.
(24:19):
Can you give some examples of, like, we had tokinda, I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna use a 4 letter
word here where you had to eat shit, so tospeak.
And but net benefit.
Right?
Where the outcome actually open up either anopportunity, your doors, or or whatnot by doing
(24:43):
that.
Yeah.
Because that is that is part of therelationship.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
So one recent one that comes to example onerecent example that comes to mind is actually
on a project that we had we were doing inHouston, Texas, and we messed up.
I mean, quite frankly, like, we just messed up.
We were doing it was a Starbucks that we weredoing in a high rise building, which is
(25:04):
unusual.
Those are not not as common as their standalone stores.
It was a little bit of a complicated space.
But when they did the concrete work, theydidn't put the correct lining underneath, and
so they actually broke through.
And they didn't have that barrier underneath,so it actually the water drained down to the
store below it.
And, you know, it was a little convenient storethat was down there, you know, and it obviously
(25:28):
did some damage and ruined some of theirinventory, but we owned it.
Right?
We made the mistake.
We're not gonna try and cover this up.
We're not gonna say this wasn't us.
You know, we raise the flag immediately.
Like, this happens.
How do we make this right?
And so we did.
I mean, we we met with the owner of thebuilding.
We met with the Starbucks team.
We met with the owners of that space downbelow, and we made it right.
(25:53):
And we made it right on our dime because that'sthe right thing to do.
We're not gonna charge a change order tosomebody that when it was our mistake.
So those those are the that's just the mostrecent example that came to mind.
And sometimes that happens.
Maybe we missed something in a bid, and it's abig ticket item.
That's happened.
There's a material.
We didn't catch it when we went through theplans.
(26:14):
We're not gonna issue a change order to youbecause we missed it.
We missed it.
We're gonna eat that cost.
And it's those it's those little things that,you know, they build credibility.
And one of our core values is transparency andaccountability.
Those are actually 2 of them.
And that that means something.
And and we we're one of those companies that wehave a set of core values, and we don't just
(26:36):
have a set of core values just to put them onthe wall and say they're there.
They operational.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Exactly.
You know, they honestly drive our businessevery single day.
We to the point where we have a daily team callevery morning.
We kick off our day with our team, and we justtalk about wins.
We spend 15 minutes, and we go through thewins.
What were your wins from the day before?
But that call starts every morning by what'sour mission statement and what are our core
(27:00):
values.
Tell us core values, what it means to you, andsomebody that you've seen living that out.
And we that is how we are ingraining this intoour team every single day because it's that
important to us.
Beautiful.
That's a good, exercise to have or a goodprogram to have, good, thing to do, however you
phrase that.
Because I do think that they're you know, whenyou get true core values, not the aspirational
(27:24):
ones, those are just, you know, marketing,stuff, collateral and things.
But, like, when you have true true core values,it's super important to keep reiterating them
over and over and over and over again because,like, how important it is, right?
Like, you're how many times when you're a kidor how many times to your kids do you tell them
the same thing over and over again becauseyou're trying to instill the idea or the value
or the, hey, like, that's not being kind.
(27:45):
I said it to Franklin all the time.
Like, hey.
That's not kind.
And one of our family core values is, like,kindness.
No exceptions.
Like, we are going to be kind.
Like, that's who we are as a family.
So it's like, you have to keep reiterating it.
So, like, having a, hey.
This is our, you know, our more our morningroll call or whatever it's called in in legacy,
(28:07):
but, like, we're gonna go over this every daybecause it's that important.
And that's how you know that it's a true corevalue and not just, hey.
It's a thing we got some stickers for the walland we threw on the website, and it's pretty
great because it sounds like we care.
Yeah.
Right?
And that happens a lot, and it's unfortunatebecause I think it's one of those things that's
been so transformational.
(28:27):
And I cannot tell you how happy it makes mewhen I have one of our employees say, you know
what?
We were results oriented today.
We did this.
We were aligned today.
We did this.
I'm like, I love it.
They're getting it.
Like, it is truly part of the way we're doingbusiness.
And it it to your point, it changes how you dobusiness.
Like, you gave the example of change.
Like, we missed the thing.
Like, we did that.
(28:48):
We missed it.
So, like, because of our core values, weoperate differently, which then also may say,
like, hey, maybe our bidding process takes alittle longer.
Because, like, we do wanna make sure we captureeverything and not just try to low bid you just
so we can get the job and then just changeorder the hell out of you, like, as time goes
on.
Because, like, that's not how we operate.
We don't wanna think that way.
So it just changes the business in totalitywhen you have a true, you know, core value
(29:12):
environment where it's like, hey.
This is our mission, and, like, this is howwe're gonna do it, you know, the style at which
we're gonna do it for our core values.
So
Absolutely.
You know, as I was thinking about this, there'sreally 2, 3 different types of, GCs.
Right?
There's your paper general, and then there'syour, like, active GC.
(29:35):
Yeah.
Which one are you?
We're absolutely active GC.
So we have, yeah, we
have a longer term strategic vision of where wewanna go with this business, and we're we're
well on our way to achieving that.
So we don't wanna be the paper pusher GC.
Like, we we feel like we can give a much betterclient experience when we can control a lot
(30:00):
more of what's happening than just subbingeverything out.
There's always gonna be things that we aregonna subcontract, and we have amazing
subcontractor relationships that we value verymuch.
So we don't want those to ever go awayentirely.
But we so one of the first things that we didwas to bring in the plumbing company last year.
That was the first strategic move of let'sbring that trade in house.
(30:23):
We also want to bring in, electrical and HVACbecause those are the biggest those are the
biggest needs.
MEP.
MEP right there.
There you go.
You got the MEPs.
So we actually just started electrical andHVAC.
We had our first two employees start a weekago, so we are well on our way to that.
(30:44):
Yeah.
Stretching.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Super exciting.
And we'll continue to be able to build that outso that we can be the active GC.
So interesting.
So, obviously, there was an acquisition for theplumbing side.
So one, how did that go?
Usually, you know, usually that that comes withlots of, learning opportunities, I believe is
(31:04):
is the phrase you used.
Yes.
But then, separately from that, then you say,oh, our HVAC and electrical, it sounds like
you're trying to build that more internallyfrom ground up.
So what, why the difference?
And then let's talk about the acquisition.
Yeah.
So with the plumbing company, yes, learningopportunities.
I love I love to put it that way.
We, so it was actually a subcontractor that wehad worked with us forever, especially with my
(31:29):
brother.
They had he had been doing his Starbucks workfor a long time.
And I think what what we find with a lot of ourour trades, they are amazing at what they do.
So our master plumbers, this this gentleman inparticular, our master plumber, John, amazing.
Like, he is so good in the field, but has nointerest in running a business.
So it was a great partnership to be able tosay, okay.
(31:53):
You can come in, have a steady salary, not haveto worry about all of that other stuff, still
lead your your team of people, do the training,then do the things that you're really good at,
and we will take care of all of the back endstuff.
So that was really how that all came about.
And it was acquisition, but we really justpurchased the assets is is how we ended up
(32:13):
doing that.
It was very much a handshake deal.
You know, good old good old boys, Texas outthere.
Very much a handshake deal.
Yes.
And and I think Yeah.
Wait.
Wait.
Wait.
So when you say that, like, as in no duediligence or, like, looking at the books, like,
how how handshaky was this deal here?
(32:35):
Hand
shaky.
I like that.
That's a new term.
It was extremely handshaky.
Okay.
Okay.
Yeah.
I would say the extent of the due diligence waspretty much what assets do you have and what do
you think they're worth, and let's put them ona list.
That really was the extent of the duediligence.
(32:57):
So, you know what?
Maybe we did good.
Maybe we did not do so good.
At the end of the day, it worked out.
It was a good thing for everybody.
And even if we lost money in that or did not doso well in that, it's okay because it worked
out.
Going forward, as we continue to doacquisitions, because that will come.
(33:18):
It will come with our growth.
We know that there's going to be acquisitions.
We have spent the last year or so educatingourselves more on that process to understand
the correct way to do that, the way to do thedue diligence, the way to research the
business, the way to negotiate.
So we would definitely we would definitely be alittle bit more sophisticated in that going
(33:39):
forward.
But this worked out.
So the next, company listening then is gonnabecome part of the the GC Legacy family.
Be conscientious that it's not gonna be just a,a beer and a handshake, and let's let's let's
go.
It's gonna be a little less hand shaking.
A little less hand shaking.
Yeah.
A little bit more, due diligence.
So,
that makes sense.
(33:59):
So, that makes sense.
So, that makes sense.
So then, obviously at this experience, I'm surethat comes with tons of hiccups, that maybe you
didn't perceive, as in maybe assets weren't asvaluable as thoughts, or maybe, people, you
know, culturally, you know, fitting in regardsto, like, anytime you're merging 2 companies,
you have an inherent culture, meshing, whichcan, you know, be very interesting to be the
(34:24):
easiest way to put that.
So what what was that meshing of cultures?
What what was that like?
I love the word interesting.
It's one of my favorite words because it canmean so many things.
Absolutely.
But, yes, the culture piece of it was veryinteresting for sure.
And I will say I I do think you know, lookingback on that in hindsight, I I do think that's
one of the more challenging pieces.
(34:45):
And I think that is something that maybe a lotof people don't necessarily think about is
you've got this set of employees that's beinghanded over that is used to doing things one
way, and now we're gonna ask you to dosomething different.
And that can be a challenge, and it has been achallenge.
And we did have some turnover in that space,because we did wanna do things a little bit
(35:08):
differently.
More structured, I think, is probably the thebiggest thing is is the structure around that.
There and there were things we did well, andthere were things we didn't do well.
And, again, all of those are learningopportunities.
So one of the things I think we didn't do verywell is I think we maybe rolled changes out a
little bit too fast.
And people need time to be able to adapt tosomething new.
(35:32):
And, so that that is something that, you know,if we were to do that again, we would
definitely we would definitely be much moreintentional about doing that and giving things
a chance to settle in before we maybe changedagain or added something else on top of it.
One thing I do think we did well, though, andthat is really important to me in everything we
(35:54):
do is to explain the why behind what we'redoing.
If people understand why, they're gonna be muchmore likely to adopt it.
Right?
To buy into what it is that you're trying todo.
You gotta sell the vision.
I mean, that's that is one thing that mybrother is amazing at.
Right?
He is the visionary for our company, and thatis, I think, why we've been able to grow and
scale as much as we have is because he has thishuge vision of where we wanna go, and he's able
(36:17):
to sell that to the team.
And we all buy into that, and we support himbehind that, and we figure out, okay.
Now how do we go and implement that vision?
And I think that's something that's reallyimportant when you're trying to align a culture
with people that are coming from somewhere thatwas completely different.
Hey.
Yeah.
So, a good amount to unpack there.
(36:40):
Can you talk about changes for a second?
Can you give an example of a change that waskind of rough?
And you talked about one change is the actualbusiness, but what actually changed?
Like, so if you're buying the business as anasset.
Right?
So they're still doing the work.
Besides the name change, what actually changedfor them?
It was really more around honestly, I think thewhat they might take as the accountability
(37:05):
piece.
But for us, it was more we started measuringthings because we can't make decisions if we
don't have data.
So one example is they were doing time cards ona piece of paper that they would submit once a
week.
Well, that didn't work for what we were tryingto build.
Like, we need we need to know more real databecause that's how we drive decisions in our
(37:28):
business.
And so we implemented electronic time cardswith GPS tracking.
And that can kinda feel like especially if youhaven't necessarily been doing everything above
board, that can cause a lot of turmoil, and itdid.
That was a very challenging very challengingchange.
So that that's just one example.
(37:49):
Also just who they're reporting to.
Right?
It had been very you know, John owned thebusiness, and he would do all of the
scheduling, and it was very just kind of, like,emergency.
Right?
Whenever this comes up, okay.
Go here.
Whenever this comes up, go here.
So we wanted to put more structure around that.
Let's actually, like, put out a schedule.
These are the jobs that you're gonna be on, andthis is who's going to be on this job.
(38:09):
And and that was a that was an adjustment forsome of them as well.
So those are, you know, a couple of the thingsthat they're just hard changes.
I think that that you find that a lot when youwhen you go from a business, a successful
business, but, like, then gets acquired.
And there's just more structure in place inthat business, it can totally make an employee
(38:32):
feel like, you know, big brother is coming or,like, you know, like, totally make that
feeling.
Yeah.
But, like, in just based on, like, what you'vetold us, like, one of your, you know, core
values is being transparent.
Right?
So it's like transparency has to happen in allaspects.
So it's like Yes.
Hey.
Being transparent with the schedule, beingtransparent with your time, being trans you
know, being transparent with different peoplethat you're talking with becomes part of the
(38:53):
environment that you are specifically trying tobuild.
And, like, throwing somebody in a newenvironment can be very scary, like,
inherently.
So, that I don't that's not odd.
You know?
That's what I will in your in your next duediligence process, like, you will still find
similarities to that if you're acquiring a acompany that just has a little bit less
(39:15):
operational maturity.
Right?
Like, is this the way we put it?
So, you know, you just you have to weather thatstorm as as it happens.
I think it's a little piece of it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I think, you know, going forward, like, wehave more operational maturity now than we did
when we bought that plumbing company.
And so Sure.
I do feel like it would be it would be maybenot an easier transition, but we would be
(39:39):
smarter about it and knowing how to do it.
So I do think that that that makes a bigdifference.
Yeah.
And so now, we fast forward.
So you acquired, the plumbing side, and nowwe're just gonna build the HVAC or at least
starting.
We're gonna start building the HVAC andelectrical side both.
So Yeah.
(40:00):
What why that decision instead of anotheracquisition?
And then how like, building, you know, thosetrades within, that comes with their own
challenges that, haven't been there.
Yes.
Which we're we're about to uncover.
Right?
Like, we're we're about we're in the midst ofthat because they just started, so I'm sure
we're gonna start uncovering all of thosethings.
(40:20):
But so we actually with HVAC and electrical, wedid look at potentially doing the same thing
that we had done with plumbing.
We actually talked to a couple of oursubcontractors and filled out some of those
relationships to see if that was something theywere interested in.
And, ultimately, they were it wasn't gonna be agood fit with with those.
And so we decided, well, let's try and startthese ones from the ground up because there are
(40:43):
benefits.
Right?
You can you build the culture from thebeginning.
You know, the people that you hire on.
So we hired on an amazing master, HVAC and anamazing master electrician that we're gonna
that we're gonna be able to bring over, that webrought over.
They started last week.
And through our interview process, they alreadyknow our culture.
(41:04):
They know our vision.
They know where we're going.
And so they're they're onboard.
They're bought in, and they wanna build a teamthat's already aligned with the direction that
we're trying to go.
So it's, to me, I think, going to be a mucheasier transition than trying to come in and
completely change the culture.
We'll see.
We'll see.
I know there's gonna be challenges.
(41:25):
Like, I'm not naive, but but we'll see.
Okay.
So right now, building instead of buying.
Buying doesn't mean it's without itschallenges.
Yeah.
Don't so one of the things that you got bybuying essentially the company was the license.
(41:47):
Mhmm.
Right?
Yep.
What about the electrical, and PM and P side?
Same thing.
Okay.
Same thing.
Yes.
Yeah.
They come over with their licenses.
Okay.
Yep.
So, does this also, quote, unquote, buy yourelationships?
Yes.
Very good question.
(42:08):
This does buy us relationships.
So in fact, our HVAC gentleman, his name isJay.
He is awesome.
He had been working on a deal, bidding aproject, and we are now getting that project.
And it is a large project that will start nextyear.
And the great thing is we're already seeingthis.
(42:29):
So we had been so I should have clarified.
Our plumbing company doesn't only do theprojects for GC legacy construction.
We will also do plumbing work for other GCs,because we we wanna keep that that diversity or
not have that concentration risk because,really, these are all stand alone businesses.
So Yep.
Down the road, eventually, if we wanted tobreak one of these off, sell one of these
(42:52):
businesses, we could do that because we wantthem to be standalone businesses.
So, one of the GCs that we've started doing alot of work for on the plumbing side has really
liked our team and said, do you guys have anyother trades that you can bid on?
Well, as of last week, we said, guess what?
Yes.
We do.
We have an electrical company and an HVACcompany, and we are already getting awarded
(43:13):
projects from them on all three sides.
So we're already seeing the fruits of what whatwe wanted this to be and what our intention was
for a longer term plan.
We're already starting to see the fruits ofthat.
So it's really exciting.
So, really, it was an investment, but youdidn't have to wait too long
(43:34):
Yeah.
On that investment, till you start gettingreturns.
That's that's super great.
Yes.
Yes.
Was that was that the plan, or was it a happyaccident that you were able to in that quick of
a turnaround?
You can be honest.
It's just us here.
Nobody It's
us it's just us chickens.
(43:55):
Yeah.
Little combination of both.
Right?
Like, we we'd always hoped that we could findsomebody that already had relationships that
they'd be able to bring over.
But sometimes that can be looking for a needlein a haystack.
And fortunately, we found the needle in thehaystack.
And so it is, of course, a little bit offortune, but definitely some intention there as
well.
(44:16):
Luckily for you, you got the magnet app.
Makes it easier.
Yes.
That's right.
That's right.
So back you know, again, back to relationships.
Mhmm.
So I think for a great relationship to work,there you have to add value all the time.
Obviously, doing great work.
Right?
Doing hey, we do great work.
We can do your plumbing.
Now we can do HVAC.
We can do electrical.
Hey, we keep adding services.
(44:37):
What are other things that you do that, like,hey.
Like, we are setting ourselves apart, you know,for our clientele?
Yeah.
Great question.
And it's one of the things that when I saywe're relationship driven and that we really
wanna build these long term relationships, it'sbecause when we get to know a client really
well, it gives us the opportunity to add morevalue than what we might just by building them
(45:00):
a building.
So one of those examples is the Starbucksrelationship.
We we know them so well, that one of the thingswe've been able to do is they they have a the
way that their a lot of their stores work isthey will order their materials for the stores,
and then they will once the GC is awarded,they'll ship everything to that general
(45:21):
contractor who will then take everything out tothe job site, get it all installed once the job
starts.
Well, what we've had seen, we've seen a lot ofchallenges with that process because sometimes
stuff will show up late, and then now the job'sgonna be delayed because we don't have the
materials that they had ordered.
Or on the Starbucks side, it's they have hadthings in their design, and they can't order
(45:44):
them until a GC has been awarded.
Well, that can take a couple months.
So maybe now those pieces that they wanted inthe store are no longer in stock.
They can't find them.
So they gotta find a replacement for that.
So there were all of these challenges aroundthe logistics piece of it.
And so we were able to come in and say, we cansolve that for you.
We know exactly what to do.
And so, we created a logistics division of ourbusiness that handles that for them.
(46:10):
As soon as that store design is done andapproved, they can order everything and ship it
to our warehouse.
We will inventory all of it.
We actually even go one step further and do aplan scrub to make sure that they didn't miss
anything.
So that when that store starts, we can makesure everything is there ready to go, and we
will send it out to the job site when they needit.
(46:30):
Even if we're not the ones that are the GCs, wecan do that for the other GCs.
We will send everything to your store on apallet organized so that you have it there when
you need to put it in the store.
It's all ready to go.
If we didn't know Starbucks as well as we do,we wouldn't have been able to propose solutions
to the problem that we knew that they werehaving.
And so our goal over the next 10 years is wewanna build at least 20 of those Starbucks like
(46:55):
relationships where we know those clients soin-depth that we can solve other problems for
them that they would have never even thought toask us to solve.
Did you just create, like, a logisticssubdivision or logistics company, like, as as a
GC.
Did I just hear that correctly?
GC Legacy Logistics.
It is a company.
Oh, okay.
(47:16):
Well, there you go.
There you have it, folks.
Sometimes, you can solve multiple problems bycreating new new companies.
Wow.
That is that's awesome.
Yeah.
Now that that ties in, we hadn't really talkedabout logistics, on the show yet.
So I really like hearing about because thatlogistics improper logistics is delays.
(47:39):
And delays means either people are not workingor you're paying people to not work.
Right?
Essentially, the math behind that.
Can I just ask, what is that cost saving or ifyou were to if you can put a number to it or or
just something or time saving, can you helpunderstand, like, how big of a problem this is?
(48:04):
Yeah.
That's a great question.
I I've actually never thought of it in a in atime saving perspective, but I know just, you
know, even seeing it from the plumbing companyside that works for the GC, one of the things
that was happening is we were having to doreturn trips because we thought a sink was in
the container waiting for us, and the guys getthere and there is no sink, so they cannot
(48:28):
install it.
And some of these jobs, I mean, they're they'renot all local to the Dallas area.
We might be traveling all the way to SouthTexas.
I mean, we've got a job in Brownsville.
We have a job in Weslaco, which no.
That's, like, south.
4 to 4 to 6 that's, like, 4 to 6 hours.
Yeah.
At least.
Yeah.
Probably longer than that from Dallas.
So we were having to do return trips just tocome back and put something in that should have
(48:50):
been there in the first place, and that's justone trade.
So if you if you add those things up, I mean,that's it's a it's a huge time and money
savings for for the client and for us and forall of our subcontractors.
And that lets us, to your point, be able to getthose jobs done much faster.
Okay.
That
Yeah.
(49:10):
Like, if your finishes come before yourdrywall, that becomes a problem.
Like, there's not you can't do anything withthat.
Like, it's just like there's there's materialson-site, but they're not the right materials
based upon, you know, who what trade is herethat needs to actually work on
on Yeah.
The the build.
Yeah.
So it definitely definitely solves solves somechallenges both on the Starbucks side, but also
(49:32):
on the GC side.
So it's a win win for both of us, which isexactly what we're looking for.
That's yeah.
That's the the win win and we talk about valueadd.
Like, this isn't even this is not constructionanymore.
Like, like, this is a different in there's awhole separate industry that does logistics,
and we're gonna help you do that.
(49:52):
Yeah.
Because we we cherish this relationship somuch, or we we appreciate the relationship
so much.
That's awesome.
Absolutely.
That's super cool.
Yeah.
So talk a little bit about people, talk alittle bit about process.
From a technology standpoint, right, and, wasthere, like, a construction management system
(50:13):
that you started with?
A lot of a lot of, you know, GCs will startwith just paper, pencil, or an Excel
spreadsheet.
That's us.
Where'd you start?
Yep.
We
started with that all the way up to $21,000,000this year.
Oh, man.
We have been extremely manual.
So this year, we actually did invest intechnology.
(50:36):
You guys will be very happy to hear that.
We are switching over to Procore.
So we have started to implement Procore towardsthe end of this year for a construction
management solution.
We're also upgrading our ERP system because wehad been using QuickBooks online, which has
been great, but we're getting big enough thatit's it's not gonna be enough now.
(50:56):
So we're Yeah.
We're looking over.
Yeah.
But yes.
So this has been the year for technologyinvestments because we realize we cannot
continue to grow and scale using Excel and allof these little tools that we've made work up
to this point.
Well, you can try to make them work.
You're just gonna bust your head through a walltrying to do that.
(51:19):
Yeah.
We're gonna be super inefficient, and that isnot what we're going for.
Yep.
Yep.
Yep.
Justin, I mean, this has been an amazing story.
You got any any anything else for us?
It it's it you know, just I'm reminded that,like, you have built this very big business
(51:39):
before you've implemented technology, which wesay all the time.
Like, you have to get the people right.
You have to get the process right.
Then you bolt on the technology to thenmaximize those things.
To your point, you're talking aboutefficiencies.
It's like, if I have to manually inputeverything or in an Excel sheet, I have to do
all these things.
It's like, there's just no there's no way thatI can do this without just adding additional
(52:03):
hands or additional labor to this where it'slike, oh, once you start adding technology to
it, now it's like, oh, what can I get thesepeople to do that's not data entry, which is
just so mindless?
And I don't think anybody actually likes thatjob.
I, you know, I always say, like, there's a jobfor everybody.
Everybody likes something.
I don't believe that somebody enjoys justentering that.
I I I if you are listening and you're thatperson, please reach out.
(52:25):
I would love to have a conversation with youbecause I just don't believe that.
I think people like accounting.
I like think people love numbers.
That's not generally business owners.
That's not the the, you know, the first thingmaybe for you because obviously you have a
background there, but, like, that's generallynot the place that they love.
But no no one loves data entry.
Like, that there I just I don't believe.
Yeah.
Justin, I'm a math guy.
(52:45):
Sorry.
I do like numbers.
Yeah.
No.
For sure.
But you are not trying to do all, like, runpayroll and do, like, those like, those you
know what I mean?
There are there are pieces of accounting thatgenerally some people just don't like, which
which would make sense.
It's fine.
But dead entry, there's that's there's no one.
There's not a person on the planet that reallyenjoys that job.
(53:07):
I will say, though, there are times when I dolove data entry just because I need something
mindless to do to, like, take my brain awayfrom the craziness.
So I'm like, oh, John DeAntre.
I don't have to think about this.
I can just do it.
I feel productive and get it out of the way.
But if I had to do it on a regular basis, no.
Nobody.
I agree with you, Justin.
Nobody loves that.
But I will say to your point, you said people,processes, technology.
(53:32):
I would actually argue processes first.
Like, going back and knowing what we know, Iwould make sure that we have the processes in
place and documented before we started bringingon all of the people.
Because what we've learned is that's the onlyway that you can actually duplicate yourself.
It's the it's the only way that I've been ableto transition things off of my plate that
(53:54):
allowed me to fork focus more on growing thebusiness is being able to hand those off.
Because when you start your business,everything's in your head.
I mean, I I know what to do, but if I died inthe middle of the night, nobody would have been
able to come in and pick up what I was doing.
And so having those processes documented is thebest place to start because once you have that,
then you can scale the people.
(54:15):
Sure.
But you're a people and you needed to you tothen build the process.
That is true.
That is true.
But I I kept doing my thing without a documentprocess.
Yeah.
No.
This this has been awesome.
What what's the what's the vision, what's thevision here?
What's the vision long term?
I know your brother is a visionary, but I'msure you you hear it every morning about where
(54:37):
you're going.
So what what is the vision?
Let's let's do it.
So in the next 9 well, now it's 9 years.
It was our 10 year vision, but we set thisvision last year.
So we have 9 years left.
Gonna be a $500,000,000 company, and we wannahave 20 corporate relationships like we do with
Starbucks to be able to build an impact.
And we wanna have a team of at least 1200people to be able to impact their lives.
(54:59):
Love that.
Yeah.
Wow.
Love that.
God.
Very specific.
I love that.
Yes.
Gotta
be specific with your vision.
Right.
Justin, I think it's time for our LQ.
Our last question.
You wanna, you wanna hit us off?
For sure.
So, Sarah, if you could go back 20 years andgive yourself some advice, what would it be?
(55:20):
Don't be afraid to try new things.
Don't be afraid of what people think.
Take the risks because you need to fail.
You need to fail.
You need to fail to be able to move on to thenext thing.
And if you're not failing, you're not growing.
And I would absolutely tell myself that.
Be confident in yourself.
Don't be afraid to fail.
Fail forward.
(55:40):
I love it.
Fail forward.
Okay.
Love
that.
We will drop all the the social links and allthat fun stuff in the show notes.
If somebody wanna get a hold of you, Sarah,what's the easiest way for them to do that?
Easiest way to get a hold of me personally?
Mhmm.
Email.
Send me an email.
Yep.
It's sarah, sarah, with anh@gclegacyconstruction.com.
(56:02):
Love to speak to you.
Awesome.
Awesome.
Awesome.
Is there any parting words you'd like to tellthe people before we say our goodbyes?
Well, thank you to you guys for putting thison.
I think this is great to be able to hearpeople's stories, and I just hope that
something in this inspires you, to go out andpursue whatever it is that you wanna do because
it is worth it.
It's hard, but hard is what makes it worth it.
(56:23):
So don't be afraid.
Go out and do what do what you wanna do.
I wrote down the word resilience.
It's probably spelled wrong, so don't worryabout that.
That was it just kept going through my man.
I was just like, god.
Damn.
They're resilient.
Holy shit.
So, I'm guarantee our listeners, had just asgood of a time as me and Will did, and until
(56:43):
next time, adios.
Adios.
Thank you.
Thanks for listening to Building Scale.
To help us reach even more people, please sharethis episode with a friend, colleague, or on
social media.
Remember, the 3 pillars of scaling a businessare people, process, and technology.
And our mission is to help the AEC industryprotect itself by making technology easy.
(57:09):
So if you think your company's technologypillar could use some improvement, book a call
with us to see how we can help maximize your ITcybersecurity strategy.
Just go to building scale dot net slash help.
And until next time,
Keep building scale.
We're absolutely active GC.
(00:02):
So we have, yeah, we have
a longer term strategic vision of where wewanna go with this business.
And we're we're well on our way to achievingthat.
So we don't wanna be the paper pusher GC.
Like, we we feel like we can give a much betterclient experience when we can control a lot
more of what's happening than just subbingeverything out.
(00:25):
There's always gonna be things that we aregonna subcontract, and we have amazing
subcontractor relationships that we value verymuch.
So we don't want those to ever go awayentirely.
But we so one of the first things that we didwas to bring in the plumbing company last year.
That was the first strategic move of let'sbring that trade in house.
We also want to bring in, electrical and HVACbecause those are the biggest those are the
(00:51):
biggest needs.
MEP.
MEP right there.
Have you ever wondered how successfularchitecture, engineering, and construction
companies scale their business?
Or have you ever wanted guidance on how to getmore growth, wealth, and freedom from your AEC
company?
Well, then you are in luck.
(01:11):
Hi.
I'm Will Foratt.
And I'm Justin Nagel, and we're your podcasthosts.
We interview successful AEC business leaders tolearn how they use people, process, and
technology to scale their businesses.
So sit back and get ready to learn from theindustry's best.
This is Building scale.
(01:33):
Hey, listeners.
It's Will here.
Our mission is to help the AEC industry protectitself by making technology easy.
If you've ever listened to our show, then youknow that the 3 pillars of scaling a business
are people, process, and technology.
So if you suspect technology is your weak link,then book a call with us to see where we can
help maximize your company's IP cybersecuritystrategy.
(01:56):
Just go to building scale dot net slash help.
Today's guest is Sarah Carr, cofounder of GCLegacy Construction.
She has 20 plus years of experience inconstruction and financial services and is
passionate about leadership and peopledevelopment.
GC Legacy was founded in 2019, specializes inquick serve retail and single tenant spaces
(02:20):
with services including roundup construction,tenant improvements, and renovations.
They focus on value engineering, providingefficient high quality projects within budget,
and their mission is to simplify theconstruction process without compromising time,
quality, or budget.
And with that said, Sarah, welcome to the show.
Thank you so much.
Thanks for having me.
(02:40):
Excited to sit down and talk with you guystoday.
Yeah.
We're excited too.
We, one, always great when it's somebody inArizona because, you know, that means that my
side of the world is doing big, bad, coolstuff, compared to Will's side in in Chicago
there.
So it's always really cool in that regard.
And then, also that usually means I couldprobably, sneak you out for lunch or a drink or
(03:01):
coffee or something.
So that's always another benefit.
Yes.
Let's do it for sure.
Awesome.
So I said these the nice things about youcertainly, but give us the give us the
background.
Tell us the the origin story.
Tell us, how the company was founded, and tellus why it's so great.
Awesome.
Happy to do that.
So I get asked that question a lot is how didyou end up in construction?
(03:23):
And it is actually a really long story with alot of crazy twists.
They'll probably surprise you along the way.
So I will start back at the very beginning, Iguess.
I was born and raised in Montana, and myparents always had their own business.
So I grew up in kind of that entrepreneurialworld.
And after I graduated high school, reallywasn't sure what I wanted to do.
(03:47):
Thought I might wanna go into sportsbroadcasting, but had, you know, a change of
plans and ended up being blessed with a babywhen I was 19 years old, which kinda changed
the trajectory of where I was gonna go.
So my sister at the time had ended up, going toschool in San Diego, California, and she
convinced me to pack up and move down there.
(04:09):
So that is what I did.
Packed up, moved down to San Diego, and I wentto work for an engineering firm.
That's kinda where where I got my start.
Didn't really know what I was gonna do, so justreally started at the bottom.
Started as a receptionist answering phones.
And really just went from there, to kinda startbuilding out my career still not really knowing
(04:30):
what I wanted to do with the rest of my life.
Met my husband in San Diego, my now husband atthe time.
I met him in San Diego.
When we got married, we decided, that we wantedto raise kids in Montana and not raise kids in
California.
And so we packed up and moved back up toMontana, at that time.
(04:51):
And my husband had actually graduated fromcollege and had gone to work for a real estate
company, and they were doing mostlymultifamily.
So they were buying apartment buildings,gathering groups of investors together and
buying apartment buildings.
But when we decided to move to Montana, Iwasn't sure what I was gonna do, and he loved
what he was doing.
(05:12):
So we decided, let's start our own business.
So we've decided to start our own business inreal estate.
So we moved back up to Montana, the amazingFlathead Valley, very northwest corner of
Montana, small town called Kalispell.
Most people know Whitefish now because it isthe it's the hot spot, the touristy area, but
we were in the the less known part.
(05:32):
Has a Whitefish shirt.
I don't know if she's ever actually been there,but she has a shirt because people comment on
it.
Oh, Whitefish.
And then she's like, yeah.
Yeah.
She has and that she knows what it is.
I know that.
Kalispell used to be the big town and actuallyis still size wise bigger, but Whitefish is
definitely the the hot spot, the touristy area.
They've got all the the good stuff up there.
(05:53):
So so yeah.
So we, bought a couple of apartment buildings.
He did exactly what he was doing in California,raised, funds from people that we knew and
bought 2 apartment buildings, and we kindastarted our our business from there.
Decided then that he really liked the landdevelopment space, so we thought we'd try our
(06:14):
hand at that and bought our first project anddid land development, and we're really getting
that going.
And then 2,008 hit.
And I don't know if you guys remember 2,008,but it was it was quite an interesting time in
our lives.
And so we that that real estate business reallyjust died.
I mean, there was and and really the biggerissue was the lack of lending.
(06:37):
I think if the lending hadn't frozen up the waythat it did, we probably would have been able
to weather that storm.
But with the projects we were doing, we justeverything got super tight.
And so we were like, well, what do we do now?
We have this business that isn't a businessanymore.
And he had met somebody through the course ofthis that lived in Dallas, Texas.
(06:59):
And they he was a real estate broker that wasstill doing multifamily, and he asked my
husband, Brent.
He said, why don't you come down and work forme?
So at this time by this time, we had 3 kids,and they were little.
The youngest was 3.
I think they were 3, 5, and 12.
They were, yeah, 3511, somewhere around thatage.
So we packed up our whole lives and moved toDallas, Texas where we knew nobody other than
(07:25):
this guy that my husband was gonna go and workfor.
So, closed down the business, moved to Texas.
My husband went to work for this real estatebroker.
I was like, I don't know what I'm gonna do.
I guess I'll just, you know, stay home for alittle bit and try and figure it out while you
get your thing up and going.
And that year, the guy that he worked fordecided to, you know, said he was going on
(07:48):
vacation, for Thanksgiving, and he never cameback.
And so Woah.
Wow.
Yeah.
So here we are.
We picked up, moved our whole lives.
My husband's working, and all of a sudden, thatbusiness is now gone too.
And we're like, what are we gonna do?
So I had a skill set that I had built upthrough the work that I had done, not only
(08:11):
doing administration, but by that point, I hadalso started to do bookkeeping starting at the
very beginning of discounts payable, moved intoreceivables, and then started really just doing
end to end bookkeeping.
So I had that skill set.
And so I just went out and started looking fora job, while he was, of course, also looking
for work at the same time, but my skill set wasmuch more applicable to really anything.
(08:33):
And I landed at a construction company.
This is coming around full circle, you guys.
I'm getting there.
So, yeah, so I went to work for a constructioncompany, and they were in the process of
starting up a facilities maintenance divisionwhere we were gonna go in.
Gold's Gym was the client, and we had theseservice techs that would go into Gold's Gym and
(08:54):
just do their service work, you know, changinglight bulbs, fixing leak leaky faucets, just
the little things, then we'd go in on a regularbasis.
Well, I got put in charge of helping run thatdivision and building that division out,
building the operations for that.
And so I had at that point, I think I'd builtit up to about 6 technicians that were working
(09:15):
for me.
And, one of them ended up breaking his leg,unfortunately, and was gonna be out for at
least 6 weeks.
And I was scrambling.
Like, what do I do?
Like, we have this client to service.
I've gotta figure something out.
Well, my brother, who is 7 years younger thanme, was in Montana at the time, and he was kind
of at that stage where he was like, I don'tknow what I'm gonna do with the rest of my
(09:39):
life.
And his background was all construction.
He had started from the very beginningpainting, framing, I mean, all of the rough
jobs all the way up to, like, building, doingfinish work for these $1,000,000 homes.
So he was really good at what he was doing, butjust, again, in that same place of where I
wanna go for the rest of my life.
I'm like, well, while you're figuring that out,can you come down to Texas and fill in for this
(10:02):
guy?
Because I know that you can handle all thestuff.
I don't have to train you.
And he was like, sure.
So he moved down to fill in, and he never left.
Wow.
Yes.
That that that's a real, bait hook and catchright there.
Yes.
For sure.
Yeah.
So moved to Texas, ended up staying in Texas.
(10:22):
Fast forward a few years, I didn't end upstaying at that construction company, and I
decided to take a completely different leap.
And I went to work in corporate for JPMorganChase.
So natural, you know, transition.
Transition.
With them.
Right?
Yes.
So I, yeah, left that space and went into thecorporate world, and it was an amazing
(10:44):
experience.
I met amazing people.
I mean, I my skill set grew so much in thatspace, but I always, in the back of my mind,
kinda knew I don't corporate's not for me.
I love the smaller town the small biz smallbusiness feel, the family feel, not so much of
the bureaucracy, and just, you know, I justknew that that's kinda where eventually we
(11:05):
wanted to do something different.
My husband was in the same boat.
He actually was working for Chase at the timeas well.
And same thing.
We'd had our own business, and he waspassionate about that real estate space and
really wanted to get back there.
My brother stayed at that construction companyin the meantime, and, they had actually so one
(11:26):
of one of the one of the biggest clients wewere working with in that space was Starbucks.
So my brother was kind of in charge of runningthose projects on-site.
He was the on-site superintendent for those andbuilt some really great relationships.
That sector of the business ended up moving outto a new business with one of the other
gentlemen that had worked there, and my brotherwent with him to go work for that business.
(11:50):
Well, one summer, fast forward, summer of 2019,we were up in Montana at our favorite place in
the world on the lake, at our little familycabin that we've had since the forties and
sitting around the campfire and talking.
And I just said, I I'm ready to be done.
Like, I wanna do something different.
And my brother said, well, guess what?
(12:11):
So do I.
Like so we said, let's start our own business.
What should we do?
And he's like, well, we know construction.
I know construction.
I can do that space.
And so it was that sitting around thatcampfire, the 3 of us decided we were gonna
start GC Legacy Construction.
Okay.
Yeah.
So 2019, you started, Legacy Construction, butwhat about the clients?
(12:37):
What clients?
What are you servicing?
Talk to us about that.
Because that, the backstory, I promise, totallyworth the backstory.
Because when we started digging into this inthe pre pre call, I was like, oh my god.
There's so much to unpack here.
Yeah.
So started from literally 0.
Right?
(12:58):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Brand new company
we had.
So initially, our idea was the the gentlemanthat he was working for, we were gonna buy that
company because my brother had these reallystrong Starbucks relationships.
But to build for a company like Starbucks, theyhave pretty strict requirements about you need
to be qualified to be able to build for them.
(13:19):
And a couple of those qualifications were youhad to be in business for 3 years, and you had
to have at least 3,000,000 in revenue for eachof those 3 years.
Those were like baseline requirements.
And we knew, well, if we're a brand newcompany, we're not gonna meet any of those
requirements.
What are we gonna do?
So we worked with the gentleman that he wasworking with, working for to try to buy that
(13:42):
business.
Because he was at this place that gentleman wasat the place where his business was kinda
running along, but he really didn't have anyinterest in growing that business and making it
into what my brother knew that it could be.
And was kind of holding my brother back in theway that, like, not letting him grow and and
see his his full talent.
(14:04):
And so we thought, okay.
Well, let's buy the business.
Because if we buy the business, the licensecomes with it.
So that was essentially what we would have beenbuying.
So we started those negotiations.
We had everything ready to go.
We got almost to the finish line, and he justthe guy decided he didn't wanna sell the
company.
Oh, man.
And Let down.
Yep.
Yeah.
(14:24):
And so my brother just said, well, I don'twanna stay here, so he quit.
So Mic drop.
Mic drop.
Right?
So now my brother's out of work.
We've got our jobs.
We're ready to start this company, and we have0 clients.
Like, this is not what we plan to do.
So we're like, that's okay.
We'll just we'll just start.
(14:45):
We'll we'll grow at the you know, he had acouple other contacts from when he had worked
in the construction space.
So thought we'll go out and we'll just startbuilding this, and we'll wait our 3 years, and
we'll we'll build up our business, and we'll goback to Starbucks in 3 years when we're ready
to qualify, and and we'll go from there.
And that was in, probably about January, end ofDecember 2019.
(15:08):
And then a little thing called COVID happens.
Oh, yeah.
Yep.
That that might that that might be almost asbad as, 2008, 2009.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We've definitely we have definitely learned alot of lessons and have some trying times
through all this.
But you know what?
(15:29):
We wouldn't be where we are today without goingthrough that stuff.
So I don't ever look back at any of it and andbe angry about it because they're I mean, it's
been invaluable.
Like, we've we've had to do things that wewouldn't have normally had to do, which makes
you appreciate things when they do work the waythat they're supposed to.
So so, yeah, COVID happens, and, obviously, theconstruction business pretty much shuts down at
(15:52):
least for quite a period of time.
Mhmm.
And so we we just did what we could and got thesmall jobs that we could.
In the meantime, my husband and I stayed withour corporate jobs because we knew there's no
way this business can support 3 of us.
Mhmm.
So we did what we needed to do to make surethat my brother could focus on going out and
(16:15):
build you know, reconnecting with thoserelationships he had.
And we did end up getting one particularproject, which was a ground up shell building
for a Starbucks, actually in Arizona.
So that was the plan originally was to startthe business in Arizona.
My brother and his family were gonna move, andwe wanted to build our business here because
this is where we all wanted to be.
(16:36):
So the first project we did was in, Cave Creek,Arizona, and it was for a developer.
So we built the exterior shell.
And then Starbucks comes in and does theinterior finish out.
It's usually how most of these work.
Starbucks doesn't own most of their realestate, so we'll come in and do the interior
finish outs.
This one, we got to build the shell.
The project was a challenge.
(16:57):
And, again, it's one of those things where ifit had been an easy one, I don't think we would
have had any appreciation for what it takes tostart a business.
Right.
This one put us through the ringer for sure,but we ended up getting it done.
And what happened through the course of thatproject is the interior finish out, Starbucks
(17:23):
was having a very difficult time with thedeveloper that owns the building.
There were a lot of things that, it just wasnot a good it didn't end up being a very good
deal, a very good relationship.
But because we knew the Starbucks side so wellfrom the work that, you know, my brother had
done through all those years for them, we wereable to actually help on the interior finish
(17:43):
out and work on those relationships.
And through that, there was one of the higherup people in Starbucks ended up visiting this
project, which they wouldn't normally visit.
But because it was so contentious with what washappening, he ended up being on-site a lot.
Well, he he knew my brother.
He had known of my brother from their pastrelationships, so they had a chance to kinda
(18:04):
rekindle that relationship.
And we went so out of our way to make thatproject successful for Starbucks that he said,
I'm going to sponsor you guys, and we're gonnago through.
They have basically a not an appeal process,but basically a process that if you're
sponsored by somebody within Starbucks, theycan do a review and determine you'll make an
(18:26):
exception on these requirements to be able togive you your vendor license.
And so we were fortunate enough.
He went to bat for us.
He sponsored us, and we got our vendor'slicense.
And
Oh, man.
That is the way to do it.
So instead of having to wait for 3 years andbuild up revenue business, you now have yet to
prove yourself.
That wouldn't have happened if you didn't do,like, an amazing job and went totally out of
(18:48):
your way.
So Mhmm.
So there's definitely other ways to go aboutit.
Yeah.
There's a little bit of history and knowingsomeone, but you still have to do a good job.
Like, a really great job to be able to do that.
So okay.
Yep.
So you're able to shortcut that process andwe'll and I'm putting in quotes shortcut
because I'm sure that because, the learninglessons beforehand is definitely not
(19:14):
shortcutting.
Yeah.
So you quote, unquote shortcut that process.
What did that do for you?
So what that did is we were able to then goback to all of the other people within
Starbucks that my brother had built these greatrelationships with and let them know, hey.
We're back in business.
And they were so excited that all of a suddenwe started getting work.
(19:36):
Like, hey.
Bid on this for us.
You guys can bid on this job, bid on this job.
Well, all those jobs happen to be in Texas, notArizona.
Yep.
Yep.
Yeah.
So here we are again.
Now we're back to back to Texas.
And so that is, to this day, where ourcorporate office is is in Dallas, Texas, and
(19:58):
that's where we've decided to really build thehub of the business.
We're expanding out into all kinds of otherstates now, but that is really how we got back
to the hub of where where our business is.
So to give some idea of size, where are you at?
So we're in 2024.
Yeah.
3 quarters of the way through 2024, where areyou at?
(20:19):
Where are we gonna end up at by the end of theyear?
Revenue wise.
Sure.
Revenue, employees, all the above.
So both.
So we we will end the year this year withabout, I think, 36 employees.
Awesome.
And, our revenue will be at about probablyaround 21,000,000 this year.
(20:39):
And Very good.
Context, when we the year that we got ourlicense, so that was in 2022, I think we ended
up doing about 9,000,000 9 or 10,000,000 inrevenue that year.
And then last year, we ended the year justunder 16,000,000, and this year, we'll do
21,000,000.
So very rapid growth.
(20:59):
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Very rapid scaling.
Yeah.
And we actually, ended up acquiring a plumbingcompany last year as well.
So that that has employee.
Employee number and revenue and opened up awhole new set of learning opportunities.
And yeah.
Learning opportunities.
I love that.
Learning opportunities.
(21:21):
Before we dive into some of those learningopportunities, I wanna talk more about
relationships.
Right?
So, you know, obviously, building scale, webelieve people process technology.
That is the way you scale.
People not only internally, but externally.
Right?
Like, how the relationships you build, becomehuge.
How do you how do you make those relationshipsdeep to to the point where, hey, like, we're
(21:42):
back in business and then, then, oh my god.
Hooray.
Let's let's go.
Like, you know, that it was almostinstantaneous overnight of, like, hey, we got
this opportunity that we knocked it out of thepark in Arizona, which then got sponsored,
which then got our vendor license back, whichnow let's now we're gonna explode.
Yeah.
Let's let's talk about how how do you how doyou how does, you know, Legacy think about
(22:05):
relationships in that regard?
They're everything.
I mean, honestly, our relationships areeverything.
So, one of my mentors that we've I've metrecently over the last couple years is Brandon
Dawson.
And one of the things that he says all the timeis collaboration is the new currency, and that
is absolutely one of the foundations of ourbusiness.
We cannot do things without people.
(22:26):
You cannot grow and scale a business withoutpeople.
And I think a lot of business owners get stuckin feeling like they have to do everything
because they know how to do it the best.
Right?
And we do.
That's you wouldn't start a business if youdidn't know how to do exactly what you are
doing, but you can't scale that businesswithout duplicating yourself into other people.
(22:48):
So you're right, Justin.
It's not just the internal people, which areeverything, by the way.
Like, our internal people, they really areeverything.
But it is those external relationships as well.
And I think the way GC legacy thinks aboutrelationships is that's the whole foundation of
our business.
We we are in this to build those types of longterm relationships because it it's not always
(23:14):
about the bottom dollar.
Right?
We're in business to make money.
Everybody is.
But there are times when the money doesn'tmatter.
If we need to make something right and it meansit's gonna cost us, we're gonna make it right
because it's the right thing to do.
That is really the foundation of we are gonnatake care of people.
We wanna treat people the way that we wouldexpect to be treated.
That's how that's how we view relationships.
(23:35):
Wow.
I love that.
I mean, that goes right along with SpotMigrations, core values.
Do the right thing is they're not aspirational.
That that is a core value of ours.
So I love hearing that.
We're all we have money to make, plenty to goaround.
Sometimes you eat a little bit, a little bitless.
(23:57):
But in the end, you know, right, it's the longterm thinking versus the short term thinking.
Yep.
And that little bit can help put you over thehump for long term, whether it's survival, long
term, just being able to do way better from abusiness perspective and help all the employees
out.
Right?
Yeah.
So okay.
(24:19):
Can you give some examples of, like, we had tokinda, I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna use a 4 letter
word here where you had to eat shit, so tospeak.
And but net benefit.
Right?
Where the outcome actually open up either anopportunity, your doors, or or whatnot by doing
(24:43):
that.
Yeah.
Because that is that is part of therelationship.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
So one recent one that comes to example onerecent example that comes to mind is actually
on a project that we had we were doing inHouston, Texas, and we messed up.
I mean, quite frankly, like, we just messed up.
We were doing it was a Starbucks that we weredoing in a high rise building, which is
(25:04):
unusual.
Those are not not as common as their standalone stores.
It was a little bit of a complicated space.
But when they did the concrete work, theydidn't put the correct lining underneath, and
so they actually broke through.
And they didn't have that barrier underneath,so it actually the water drained down to the
store below it.
And, you know, it was a little convenient storethat was down there, you know, and it obviously
(25:28):
did some damage and ruined some of theirinventory, but we owned it.
Right?
We made the mistake.
We're not gonna try and cover this up.
We're not gonna say this wasn't us.
You know, we raise the flag immediately.
Like, this happens.
How do we make this right?
And so we did.
I mean, we we met with the owner of thebuilding.
We met with the Starbucks team.
We met with the owners of that space downbelow, and we made it right.
(25:53):
And we made it right on our dime because that'sthe right thing to do.
We're not gonna charge a change order tosomebody that when it was our mistake.
So those those are the that's just the mostrecent example that came to mind.
And sometimes that happens.
Maybe we missed something in a bid, and it's abig ticket item.
That's happened.
There's a material.
We didn't catch it when we went through theplans.
(26:14):
We're not gonna issue a change order to youbecause we missed it.
We missed it.
We're gonna eat that cost.
And it's those it's those little things that,you know, they build credibility.
And one of our core values is transparency andaccountability.
Those are actually 2 of them.
And that that means something.
And and we we're one of those companies that wehave a set of core values, and we don't just
(26:36):
have a set of core values just to put them onthe wall and say they're there.
They operational.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Exactly.
You know, they honestly drive our businessevery single day.
We to the point where we have a daily team callevery morning.
We kick off our day with our team, and we justtalk about wins.
We spend 15 minutes, and we go through thewins.
What were your wins from the day before?
But that call starts every morning by what'sour mission statement and what are our core
(27:00):
values.
Tell us core values, what it means to you, andsomebody that you've seen living that out.
And we that is how we are ingraining this intoour team every single day because it's that
important to us.
Beautiful.
That's a good, exercise to have or a goodprogram to have, good, thing to do, however you
phrase that.
Because I do think that they're you know, whenyou get true core values, not the aspirational
(27:24):
ones, those are just, you know, marketing,stuff, collateral and things.
But, like, when you have true true core values,it's super important to keep reiterating them
over and over and over and over again because,like, how important it is, right?
Like, you're how many times when you're a kidor how many times to your kids do you tell them
the same thing over and over again becauseyou're trying to instill the idea or the value
or the, hey, like, that's not being kind.
(27:45):
I said it to Franklin all the time.
Like, hey.
That's not kind.
And one of our family core values is, like,kindness.
No exceptions.
Like, we are going to be kind.
Like, that's who we are as a family.
So it's like, you have to keep reiterating it.
So, like, having a, hey.
This is our, you know, our more our morningroll call or whatever it's called in in legacy,
(28:07):
but, like, we're gonna go over this every daybecause it's that important.
And that's how you know that it's a true corevalue and not just, hey.
It's a thing we got some stickers for the walland we threw on the website, and it's pretty
great because it sounds like we care.
Yeah.
Right?
And that happens a lot, and it's unfortunatebecause I think it's one of those things that's
been so transformational.
(28:27):
And I cannot tell you how happy it makes mewhen I have one of our employees say, you know
what?
We were results oriented today.
We did this.
We were aligned today.
We did this.
I'm like, I love it.
They're getting it.
Like, it is truly part of the way we're doingbusiness.
And it it to your point, it changes how you dobusiness.
Like, you gave the example of change.
Like, we missed the thing.
Like, we did that.
(28:48):
We missed it.
So, like, because of our core values, weoperate differently, which then also may say,
like, hey, maybe our bidding process takes alittle longer.
Because, like, we do wanna make sure we captureeverything and not just try to low bid you just
so we can get the job and then just changeorder the hell out of you, like, as time goes
on.
Because, like, that's not how we operate.
We don't wanna think that way.
So it just changes the business in totalitywhen you have a true, you know, core value
(29:12):
environment where it's like, hey.
This is our mission, and, like, this is howwe're gonna do it, you know, the style at which
we're gonna do it for our core values.
So
Absolutely.
You know, as I was thinking about this, there'sreally 2, 3 different types of, GCs.
Right?
There's your paper general, and then there'syour, like, active GC.
(29:35):
Yeah.
Which one are you?
We're absolutely active GC.
So we have, yeah, we
have a longer term strategic vision of where wewanna go with this business, and we're we're
well on our way to achieving that.
So we don't wanna be the paper pusher GC.
Like, we we feel like we can give a much betterclient experience when we can control a lot
(30:00):
more of what's happening than just subbingeverything out.
There's always gonna be things that we aregonna subcontract, and we have amazing
subcontractor relationships that we value verymuch.
So we don't want those to ever go awayentirely.
But we so one of the first things that we didwas to bring in the plumbing company last year.
That was the first strategic move of let'sbring that trade in house.
(30:23):
We also want to bring in, electrical and HVACbecause those are the biggest those are the
biggest needs.
MEP.
MEP right there.
There you go.
You got the MEPs.
So we actually just started electrical andHVAC.
We had our first two employees start a weekago, so we are well on our way to that.
(30:44):
Yeah.
Stretching.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Super exciting.
And we'll continue to be able to build that outso that we can be the active GC.
So interesting.
So, obviously, there was an acquisition for theplumbing side.
So one, how did that go?
Usually, you know, usually that that comes withlots of, learning opportunities, I believe is
(31:04):
is the phrase you used.
Yes.
But then, separately from that, then you say,oh, our HVAC and electrical, it sounds like
you're trying to build that more internallyfrom ground up.
So what, why the difference?
And then let's talk about the acquisition.
Yeah.
So with the plumbing company, yes, learningopportunities.
I love I love to put it that way.
We, so it was actually a subcontractor that wehad worked with us forever, especially with my
(31:29):
brother.
They had he had been doing his Starbucks workfor a long time.
And I think what what we find with a lot of ourour trades, they are amazing at what they do.
So our master plumbers, this this gentleman inparticular, our master plumber, John, amazing.
Like, he is so good in the field, but has nointerest in running a business.
So it was a great partnership to be able tosay, okay.
(31:53):
You can come in, have a steady salary, not haveto worry about all of that other stuff, still
lead your your team of people, do the training,then do the things that you're really good at,
and we will take care of all of the back endstuff.
So that was really how that all came about.
And it was acquisition, but we really justpurchased the assets is is how we ended up
(32:13):
doing that.
It was very much a handshake deal.
You know, good old good old boys, Texas outthere.
Very much a handshake deal.
Yes.
And and I think Yeah.
Wait.
Wait.
Wait.
So when you say that, like, as in no duediligence or, like, looking at the books, like,
how how handshaky was this deal here?
(32:35):
Hand
shaky.
I like that.
That's a new term.
It was extremely handshaky.
Okay.
Okay.
Yeah.
I would say the extent of the due diligence waspretty much what assets do you have and what do
you think they're worth, and let's put them ona list.
That really was the extent of the duediligence.
(32:57):
So, you know what?
Maybe we did good.
Maybe we did not do so good.
At the end of the day, it worked out.
It was a good thing for everybody.
And even if we lost money in that or did not doso well in that, it's okay because it worked
out.
Going forward, as we continue to doacquisitions, because that will come.
(33:18):
It will come with our growth.
We know that there's going to be acquisitions.
We have spent the last year or so educatingourselves more on that process to understand
the correct way to do that, the way to do thedue diligence, the way to research the
business, the way to negotiate.
So we would definitely we would definitely be alittle bit more sophisticated in that going
(33:39):
forward.
But this worked out.
So the next, company listening then is gonnabecome part of the the GC Legacy family.
Be conscientious that it's not gonna be just a,a beer and a handshake, and let's let's let's
go.
It's gonna be a little less hand shaking.
A little less hand shaking.
Yeah.
A little bit more, due diligence.
So,
that makes sense.
(33:59):
So, that makes sense.
So, that makes sense.
So then, obviously at this experience, I'm surethat comes with tons of hiccups, that maybe you
didn't perceive, as in maybe assets weren't asvaluable as thoughts, or maybe, people, you
know, culturally, you know, fitting in regardsto, like, anytime you're merging 2 companies,
you have an inherent culture, meshing, whichcan, you know, be very interesting to be the
(34:24):
easiest way to put that.
So what what was that meshing of cultures?
What what was that like?
I love the word interesting.
It's one of my favorite words because it canmean so many things.
Absolutely.
But, yes, the culture piece of it was veryinteresting for sure.
And I will say I I do think you know, lookingback on that in hindsight, I I do think that's
one of the more challenging pieces.
(34:45):
And I think that is something that maybe a lotof people don't necessarily think about is
you've got this set of employees that's beinghanded over that is used to doing things one
way, and now we're gonna ask you to dosomething different.
And that can be a challenge, and it has been achallenge.
And we did have some turnover in that space,because we did wanna do things a little bit
(35:08):
differently.
More structured, I think, is probably the thebiggest thing is is the structure around that.
There and there were things we did well, andthere were things we didn't do well.
And, again, all of those are learningopportunities.
So one of the things I think we didn't do verywell is I think we maybe rolled changes out a
little bit too fast.
And people need time to be able to adapt tosomething new.
(35:32):
And, so that that is something that, you know,if we were to do that again, we would
definitely we would definitely be much moreintentional about doing that and giving things
a chance to settle in before we maybe changedagain or added something else on top of it.
One thing I do think we did well, though, andthat is really important to me in everything we
(35:54):
do is to explain the why behind what we'redoing.
If people understand why, they're gonna be muchmore likely to adopt it.
Right?
To buy into what it is that you're trying todo.
You gotta sell the vision.
I mean, that's that is one thing that mybrother is amazing at.
Right?
He is the visionary for our company, and thatis, I think, why we've been able to grow and
scale as much as we have is because he has thishuge vision of where we wanna go, and he's able
(36:17):
to sell that to the team.
And we all buy into that, and we support himbehind that, and we figure out, okay.
Now how do we go and implement that vision?
And I think that's something that's reallyimportant when you're trying to align a culture
with people that are coming from somewhere thatwas completely different.
Hey.
Yeah.
So, a good amount to unpack there.
(36:40):
Can you talk about changes for a second?
Can you give an example of a change that waskind of rough?
And you talked about one change is the actualbusiness, but what actually changed?
Like, so if you're buying the business as anasset.
Right?
So they're still doing the work.
Besides the name change, what actually changedfor them?
It was really more around honestly, I think thewhat they might take as the accountability
(37:05):
piece.
But for us, it was more we started measuringthings because we can't make decisions if we
don't have data.
So one example is they were doing time cards ona piece of paper that they would submit once a
week.
Well, that didn't work for what we were tryingto build.
Like, we need we need to know more real databecause that's how we drive decisions in our
(37:28):
business.
And so we implemented electronic time cardswith GPS tracking.
And that can kinda feel like especially if youhaven't necessarily been doing everything above
board, that can cause a lot of turmoil, and itdid.
That was a very challenging very challengingchange.
So that that's just one example.
(37:49):
Also just who they're reporting to.
Right?
It had been very you know, John owned thebusiness, and he would do all of the
scheduling, and it was very just kind of, like,emergency.
Right?
Whenever this comes up, okay.
Go here.
Whenever this comes up, go here.
So we wanted to put more structure around that.
Let's actually, like, put out a schedule.
These are the jobs that you're gonna be on, andthis is who's going to be on this job.
(38:09):
And and that was a that was an adjustment forsome of them as well.
So those are, you know, a couple of the thingsthat they're just hard changes.
I think that that you find that a lot when youwhen you go from a business, a successful
business, but, like, then gets acquired.
And there's just more structure in place inthat business, it can totally make an employee
(38:32):
feel like, you know, big brother is coming or,like, you know, like, totally make that
feeling.
Yeah.
But, like, in just based on, like, what you'vetold us, like, one of your, you know, core
values is being transparent.
Right?
So it's like transparency has to happen in allaspects.
So it's like Yes.
Hey.
Being transparent with the schedule, beingtransparent with your time, being trans you
know, being transparent with different peoplethat you're talking with becomes part of the
(38:53):
environment that you are specifically trying tobuild.
And, like, throwing somebody in a newenvironment can be very scary, like,
inherently.
So, that I don't that's not odd.
You know?
That's what I will in your in your next duediligence process, like, you will still find
similarities to that if you're acquiring a acompany that just has a little bit less
(39:15):
operational maturity.
Right?
Like, is this the way we put it?
So, you know, you just you have to weather thatstorm as as it happens.
I think it's a little piece of it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I think, you know, going forward, like, wehave more operational maturity now than we did
when we bought that plumbing company.
And so Sure.
I do feel like it would be it would be maybenot an easier transition, but we would be
(39:39):
smarter about it and knowing how to do it.
So I do think that that that makes a bigdifference.
Yeah.
And so now, we fast forward.
So you acquired, the plumbing side, and nowwe're just gonna build the HVAC or at least
starting.
We're gonna start building the HVAC andelectrical side both.
So Yeah.
(40:00):
What why that decision instead of anotheracquisition?
And then how like, building, you know, thosetrades within, that comes with their own
challenges that, haven't been there.
Yes.
Which we're we're about to uncover.
Right?
Like, we're we're about we're in the midst ofthat because they just started, so I'm sure
we're gonna start uncovering all of thosethings.
(40:20):
But so we actually with HVAC and electrical, wedid look at potentially doing the same thing
that we had done with plumbing.
We actually talked to a couple of oursubcontractors and filled out some of those
relationships to see if that was something theywere interested in.
And, ultimately, they were it wasn't gonna be agood fit with with those.
And so we decided, well, let's try and startthese ones from the ground up because there are
(40:43):
benefits.
Right?
You can you build the culture from thebeginning.
You know, the people that you hire on.
So we hired on an amazing master, HVAC and anamazing master electrician that we're gonna
that we're gonna be able to bring over, that webrought over.
They started last week.
And through our interview process, they alreadyknow our culture.
(41:04):
They know our vision.
They know where we're going.
And so they're they're onboard.
They're bought in, and they wanna build a teamthat's already aligned with the direction that
we're trying to go.
So it's, to me, I think, going to be a mucheasier transition than trying to come in and
completely change the culture.
We'll see.
We'll see.
I know there's gonna be challenges.
(41:25):
Like, I'm not naive, but but we'll see.
Okay.
So right now, building instead of buying.
Buying doesn't mean it's without itschallenges.
Yeah.
Don't so one of the things that you got bybuying essentially the company was the license.
(41:47):
Mhmm.
Right?
Yep.
What about the electrical, and PM and P side?
Same thing.
Okay.
Same thing.
Yes.
Yeah.
They come over with their licenses.
Okay.
Yep.
So, does this also, quote, unquote, buy yourelationships?
Yes.
Very good question.
(42:08):
This does buy us relationships.
So in fact, our HVAC gentleman, his name isJay.
He is awesome.
He had been working on a deal, bidding aproject, and we are now getting that project.
And it is a large project that will start nextyear.
And the great thing is we're already seeingthis.
(42:29):
So we had been so I should have clarified.
Our plumbing company doesn't only do theprojects for GC legacy construction.
We will also do plumbing work for other GCs,because we we wanna keep that that diversity or
not have that concentration risk because,really, these are all stand alone businesses.
So Yep.
Down the road, eventually, if we wanted tobreak one of these off, sell one of these
(42:52):
businesses, we could do that because we wantthem to be standalone businesses.
So, one of the GCs that we've started doing alot of work for on the plumbing side has really
liked our team and said, do you guys have anyother trades that you can bid on?
Well, as of last week, we said, guess what?
Yes.
We do.
We have an electrical company and an HVACcompany, and we are already getting awarded
(43:13):
projects from them on all three sides.
So we're already seeing the fruits of what whatwe wanted this to be and what our intention was
for a longer term plan.
We're already starting to see the fruits ofthat.
So it's really exciting.
So, really, it was an investment, but youdidn't have to wait too long
(43:34):
Yeah.
On that investment, till you start gettingreturns.
That's that's super great.
Yes.
Yes.
Was that was that the plan, or was it a happyaccident that you were able to in that quick of
a turnaround?
You can be honest.
It's just us here.
Nobody It's
us it's just us chickens.
(43:55):
Yeah.
Little combination of both.
Right?
Like, we we'd always hoped that we could findsomebody that already had relationships that
they'd be able to bring over.
But sometimes that can be looking for a needlein a haystack.
And fortunately, we found the needle in thehaystack.
And so it is, of course, a little bit offortune, but definitely some intention there as
well.
(44:16):
Luckily for you, you got the magnet app.
Makes it easier.
Yes.
That's right.
That's right.
So back you know, again, back to relationships.
Mhmm.
So I think for a great relationship to work,there you have to add value all the time.
Obviously, doing great work.
Right?
Doing hey, we do great work.
We can do your plumbing.
Now we can do HVAC.
We can do electrical.
Hey, we keep adding services.
(44:37):
What are other things that you do that, like,hey.
Like, we are setting ourselves apart, you know,for our clientele?
Yeah.
Great question.
And it's one of the things that when I saywe're relationship driven and that we really
wanna build these long term relationships, it'sbecause when we get to know a client really
well, it gives us the opportunity to add morevalue than what we might just by building them
(45:00):
a building.
So one of those examples is the Starbucksrelationship.
We we know them so well, that one of the thingswe've been able to do is they they have a the
way that their a lot of their stores work isthey will order their materials for the stores,
and then they will once the GC is awarded,they'll ship everything to that general
(45:21):
contractor who will then take everything out tothe job site, get it all installed once the job
starts.
Well, what we've had seen, we've seen a lot ofchallenges with that process because sometimes
stuff will show up late, and then now the job'sgonna be delayed because we don't have the
materials that they had ordered.
Or on the Starbucks side, it's they have hadthings in their design, and they can't order
(45:44):
them until a GC has been awarded.
Well, that can take a couple months.
So maybe now those pieces that they wanted inthe store are no longer in stock.
They can't find them.
So they gotta find a replacement for that.
So there were all of these challenges aroundthe logistics piece of it.
And so we were able to come in and say, we cansolve that for you.
We know exactly what to do.
And so, we created a logistics division of ourbusiness that handles that for them.
(46:10):
As soon as that store design is done andapproved, they can order everything and ship it
to our warehouse.
We will inventory all of it.
We actually even go one step further and do aplan scrub to make sure that they didn't miss
anything.
So that when that store starts, we can makesure everything is there ready to go, and we
will send it out to the job site when they needit.
(46:30):
Even if we're not the ones that are the GCs, wecan do that for the other GCs.
We will send everything to your store on apallet organized so that you have it there when
you need to put it in the store.
It's all ready to go.
If we didn't know Starbucks as well as we do,we wouldn't have been able to propose solutions
to the problem that we knew that they werehaving.
And so our goal over the next 10 years is wewanna build at least 20 of those Starbucks like
(46:55):
relationships where we know those clients soin-depth that we can solve other problems for
them that they would have never even thought toask us to solve.
Did you just create, like, a logisticssubdivision or logistics company, like, as as a
GC.
Did I just hear that correctly?
GC Legacy Logistics.
It is a company.
Oh, okay.
(47:16):
Well, there you go.
There you have it, folks.
Sometimes, you can solve multiple problems bycreating new new companies.
Wow.
That is that's awesome.
Yeah.
Now that that ties in, we hadn't really talkedabout logistics, on the show yet.
So I really like hearing about because thatlogistics improper logistics is delays.
(47:39):
And delays means either people are not workingor you're paying people to not work.
Right?
Essentially, the math behind that.
Can I just ask, what is that cost saving or ifyou were to if you can put a number to it or or
just something or time saving, can you helpunderstand, like, how big of a problem this is?
(48:04):
Yeah.
That's a great question.
I I've actually never thought of it in a in atime saving perspective, but I know just, you
know, even seeing it from the plumbing companyside that works for the GC, one of the things
that was happening is we were having to doreturn trips because we thought a sink was in
the container waiting for us, and the guys getthere and there is no sink, so they cannot
(48:28):
install it.
And some of these jobs, I mean, they're they'renot all local to the Dallas area.
We might be traveling all the way to SouthTexas.
I mean, we've got a job in Brownsville.
We have a job in Weslaco, which no.
That's, like, south.
4 to 4 to 6 that's, like, 4 to 6 hours.
Yeah.
At least.
Yeah.
Probably longer than that from Dallas.
So we were having to do return trips just tocome back and put something in that should have
(48:50):
been there in the first place, and that's justone trade.
So if you if you add those things up, I mean,that's it's a it's a huge time and money
savings for for the client and for us and forall of our subcontractors.
And that lets us, to your point, be able to getthose jobs done much faster.
Okay.
That
Yeah.
(49:10):
Like, if your finishes come before yourdrywall, that becomes a problem.
Like, there's not you can't do anything withthat.
Like, it's just like there's there's materialson-site, but they're not the right materials
based upon, you know, who what trade is herethat needs to actually work on
on Yeah.
The the build.
Yeah.
So it definitely definitely solves solves somechallenges both on the Starbucks side, but also
(49:32):
on the GC side.
So it's a win win for both of us, which isexactly what we're looking for.
That's yeah.
That's the the win win and we talk about valueadd.
Like, this isn't even this is not constructionanymore.
Like, like, this is a different in there's awhole separate industry that does logistics,
and we're gonna help you do that.
(49:52):
Yeah.
Because we we cherish this relationship somuch, or we we appreciate the relationship
so much.
That's awesome.
Absolutely.
That's super cool.
Yeah.
So talk a little bit about people, talk alittle bit about process.
From a technology standpoint, right, and, wasthere, like, a construction management system
(50:13):
that you started with?
A lot of a lot of, you know, GCs will startwith just paper, pencil, or an Excel
spreadsheet.
That's us.
Where'd you start?
Yep.
We
started with that all the way up to $21,000,000this year.
Oh, man.
We have been extremely manual.
So this year, we actually did invest intechnology.
(50:36):
You guys will be very happy to hear that.
We are switching over to Procore.
So we have started to implement Procore towardsthe end of this year for a construction
management solution.
We're also upgrading our ERP system because wehad been using QuickBooks online, which has
been great, but we're getting big enough thatit's it's not gonna be enough now.
(50:56):
So we're Yeah.
We're looking over.
Yeah.
But yes.
So this has been the year for technologyinvestments because we realize we cannot
continue to grow and scale using Excel and allof these little tools that we've made work up
to this point.
Well, you can try to make them work.
You're just gonna bust your head through a walltrying to do that.
(51:19):
Yeah.
We're gonna be super inefficient, and that isnot what we're going for.
Yep.
Yep.
Yep.
Justin, I mean, this has been an amazing story.
You got any any anything else for us?
It it's it you know, just I'm reminded that,like, you have built this very big business
(51:39):
before you've implemented technology, which wesay all the time.
Like, you have to get the people right.
You have to get the process right.
Then you bolt on the technology to thenmaximize those things.
To your point, you're talking aboutefficiencies.
It's like, if I have to manually inputeverything or in an Excel sheet, I have to do
all these things.
It's like, there's just no there's no way thatI can do this without just adding additional
(52:03):
hands or additional labor to this where it'slike, oh, once you start adding technology to
it, now it's like, oh, what can I get thesepeople to do that's not data entry, which is
just so mindless?
And I don't think anybody actually likes thatjob.
I, you know, I always say, like, there's a jobfor everybody.
Everybody likes something.
I don't believe that somebody enjoys justentering that.
I I I if you are listening and you're thatperson, please reach out.
(52:25):
I would love to have a conversation with youbecause I just don't believe that.
I think people like accounting.
I like think people love numbers.
That's not generally business owners.
That's not the the, you know, the first thingmaybe for you because obviously you have a
background there, but, like, that's generallynot the place that they love.
But no no one loves data entry.
Like, that there I just I don't believe.
Yeah.
Justin, I'm a math guy.
(52:45):
Sorry.
I do like numbers.
Yeah.
No.
For sure.
But you are not trying to do all, like, runpayroll and do, like, those like, those you
know what I mean?
There are there are pieces of accounting thatgenerally some people just don't like, which
which would make sense.
It's fine.
But dead entry, there's that's there's no one.
There's not a person on the planet that reallyenjoys that job.
(53:07):
I will say, though, there are times when I dolove data entry just because I need something
mindless to do to, like, take my brain awayfrom the craziness.
So I'm like, oh, John DeAntre.
I don't have to think about this.
I can just do it.
I feel productive and get it out of the way.
But if I had to do it on a regular basis, no.
Nobody.
I agree with you, Justin.
Nobody loves that.
But I will say to your point, you said people,processes, technology.
(53:32):
I would actually argue processes first.
Like, going back and knowing what we know, Iwould make sure that we have the processes in
place and documented before we started bringingon all of the people.
Because what we've learned is that's the onlyway that you can actually duplicate yourself.
It's the it's the only way that I've been ableto transition things off of my plate that
(53:54):
allowed me to fork focus more on growing thebusiness is being able to hand those off.
Because when you start your business,everything's in your head.
I mean, I I know what to do, but if I died inthe middle of the night, nobody would have been
able to come in and pick up what I was doing.
And so having those processes documented is thebest place to start because once you have that,
then you can scale the people.
(54:15):
Sure.
But you're a people and you needed to you tothen build the process.
That is true.
That is true.
But I I kept doing my thing without a documentprocess.
Yeah.
No.
This this has been awesome.
What what's the what's the vision, what's thevision here?
What's the vision long term?
I know your brother is a visionary, but I'msure you you hear it every morning about where
(54:37):
you're going.
So what what is the vision?
Let's let's do it.
So in the next 9 well, now it's 9 years.
It was our 10 year vision, but we set thisvision last year.
So we have 9 years left.
Gonna be a $500,000,000 company, and we wannahave 20 corporate relationships like we do with
Starbucks to be able to build an impact.
And we wanna have a team of at least 1200people to be able to impact their lives.
(54:59):
Love that.
Yeah.
Wow.
Love that.
God.
Very specific.
I love that.
Yes.
Gotta
be specific with your vision.
Right.
Justin, I think it's time for our LQ.
Our last question.
You wanna, you wanna hit us off?
For sure.
So, Sarah, if you could go back 20 years andgive yourself some advice, what would it be?
(55:20):
Don't be afraid to try new things.
Don't be afraid of what people think.
Take the risks because you need to fail.
You need to fail.
You need to fail to be able to move on to thenext thing.
And if you're not failing, you're not growing.
And I would absolutely tell myself that.
Be confident in yourself.
Don't be afraid to fail.
Fail forward.
(55:40):
I love it.
Fail forward.
Okay.
Love
that.
We will drop all the the social links and allthat fun stuff in the show notes.
If somebody wanna get a hold of you, Sarah,what's the easiest way for them to do that?
Easiest way to get a hold of me personally?
Mhmm.
Email.
Send me an email.
Yep.
It's sarah, sarah, with anh@gclegacyconstruction.com.
(56:02):
Love to speak to you.
Awesome.
Awesome.
Awesome.
Is there any parting words you'd like to tellthe people before we say our goodbyes?
Well, thank you to you guys for putting thison.
I think this is great to be able to hearpeople's stories, and I just hope that
something in this inspires you, to go out andpursue whatever it is that you wanna do because
it is worth it.
It's hard, but hard is what makes it worth it.
(56:23):
So don't be afraid.
Go out and do what do what you wanna do.
I wrote down the word resilience.
It's probably spelled wrong, so don't worryabout that.
That was it just kept going through my man.
I was just like, god.
Damn.
They're resilient.
Holy shit.
So, I'm guarantee our listeners, had just asgood of a time as me and Will did, and until
(56:43):
next time, adios.
Adios.
Thank you.
Thanks for listening to Building Scale.
To help us reach even more people, please sharethis episode with a friend, colleague, or on
social media.
Remember, the 3 pillars of scaling a businessare people, process, and technology.
And our mission is to help the AEC industryprotect itself by making technology easy.
(57:09):
So if you think your company's technologypillar could use some improvement, book a call
with us to see how we can help maximize your ITcybersecurity strategy.
Just go to building scale dot net slash help.
And until next time,
Keep building scale.
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