August 19, 2025 • 58 mins
Eddie Jones shares his architectural journey, from his education to founding Jones Studio. He reflects on his early career and significant projects, including the St. Louis (now Arizona) Cardinals training facility and the Scottsdale Museum of Contemporary Art exhibit. Eddie discusses the Mariposa land port of entry project and the studio's growth. He provides insights into succession planning and transitioning roles within the studio, emphasizing his evolution from architect to business leader.
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(00:00):
Crash.
Yeah.
The crash happened.
And here we are at Little Jones studio with thelargest construction project in Arizona.
And all of our best architects being laid offfor shutting their doors.
So we cherry picked all the best architects.
And and over the next eight years, you know, weproduced that 54 acre national award winning
(00:24):
reinvented land port of entry called Mariposa.
What an experience.
What an educate
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Just go to buildingscale.net/health.
Today's guest is Eddie Jones, founder of JonesStudio.
He founded Jones Studio in 1979, and they arean award winning architecture interior design
and planning firm based in Tempe, Arizona.
Go Devils.
I always love Tempe, Arizona for sure.
(01:55):
He's led the firm to 240 plus design awardsincluding National AIA Honor Award and GSA
Design Excellence Honor recognized with the topindustry honors including AIA Arizona's
architects medal and fellowship in the AIA.
Jones Studio specializes in sustainableresilient design for public and private sector
(02:18):
clients across The US, known for high profilecivic projects like the Mariposa Land Port
Venturi and for creating strong design buildcollaborations.
Firm was named firm of the year by both AIAArizona and AIA Western Mountain region.
And with all that fun stuff said, Eddie,welcome to the show.
(02:38):
Thank you.
Appreciate the invitation.
Yeah.
No.
When I met you was at an AIA event because we II got invited to it from another guest.
And he said to me, oh, this is the bestarchitect in if not all the ballet, maybe the
whole country.
So I was like, well, that sounds pretty good tome.
Gang is too kind.
(02:58):
At least here in in the Valley, I can tell youthat.
Thank you.
Yeah.
So I said all these nice things, but tell usthe real story.
How'd you get into architecture?
Tell us about Jump Studios, the beginnings,the, you know, going through that.
Let's let's hear it from the Eddie's mouth, asthey say.
Well, my story is is very conventional.
(03:19):
You know, as a child, six year old child, beganto, I don't know, gravitate.
Didn't even know that word at six years old.
Some buildings that didn't look like my house.
My, my mother back in the fifties, you know,there were these women's home magazines and it
(03:46):
was mid century.
Right.
And they were publishing the, this sort of newpost war style of low pitched roofs, lots of
glass.
Most of it was not in Oklahoma.
That's for sure.
And, and it, it fascinated me and I taughtmyself how to look at the photographs and
(04:08):
figure out, and the floor plans were alsopublished and I could identify the location in
the floor plan where the photograph was taken.
Eventually I could do that as a, as a smallboy, which sort of, and I was good in art at
school.
And so my parents said, you know, you probablywant to be an architect.
(04:29):
And I go, okay.
And then I discovered, Frank Lloyd Wright, likea lot of people of my generation.
And that, that was it.
That sealed the deal.
That's what I wanted to be, which is inretrospect as an adult, I can see that in
retrospect, that was a huge advantage because Icould focus on my education.
(04:54):
Do little kids focus on education?
Well, yeah.
You know, I took every art class I could.
Of course, in curious.
That's probably been my greatest enduringquality is curiosity.
And so any book that had art or architecture init, would, I would devour.
(05:15):
Junior high there weren't any computers then.
And so one would learn mechanical drawing.
That's what it was called mechanical drawing.
You had a drafting board.
You had T squares, you had triangles andpencils.
Man, I, did I find medium of communication?
I absolutely loved drawing with mechanicalequipment and excelled in geometry, blah, blah,
(05:40):
blah.
Anyway, you know, of course you go toarchitecture school, and I went to Oklahoma
State University and got my degree, bachelor'sdegree in architecture, and worked a year in
Oklahoma and, you know, just decided I've gotto, I've got to explore.
I need, I need a place that I can sort ofbecome whoever I was going to become.
(06:05):
I had to find that place and it, and I couldtell it wasn't my hometown, you know, it was a
great place to grow up.
Gosh, you know, I had a sheltered childhood.
I had parents that were supportive.
But I ended up in Arizona.
Why Arizona?
Well, because I had seen issues of Arizonahighways, probably the best chamber of commerce
(06:29):
medium ever invented.
And and and those, you know, silhouettes ofsaguaros against sunsets just were so unique.
And then, of course, Frank Lloyd Wright hadbeen here and Paolo Solari, who came from
Thales and was here.
I thought, that's it.
That's good enough for me.
Must be the land of opportunity, intellectualgrowth, of experimentation, of anything goes
(06:59):
you know, where determination pays off.
So I stupidly, again, retrospect, packed up myVW Volkswagen with my two year old son and my
wife and our few belongings and drove west andwithout looking back and no support system.
And we set up shop in Phoenix And it's been agreat it was a great life changing experience,
(07:25):
and it continues to be a life changingexperience.
I'm not stuck here, you know, at my age, havethe resources to travel the world, which I do,
but I you know, always returning, you know, tothe Sonoran is one of my favorite things.
So when you came to Arizona, is that when youset up Jones Studio?
Is that when it all happened, or did you firstwork somewhere else?
(07:48):
And then how did that work?
No.
I you know, when one graduates from anarchitecture school, that doesn't make you an
architect.
There was a three year or four yearapprenticeship.
That's what they called it, an apprenticeship.
Before you were even allowed to take the exams,which you then had to pass, and then you could
(08:10):
call yourself an architect.
And so, as I said, I worked in Oklahoma Cityfor about a year and then, you know,
accumulated enough money to, you know, headwest.
I went to work for the oldest architecture firmin Phoenix.
It was called Lesher Mahoney.
And Les Mahoney, his license number was 4.
(08:32):
Minus 10000 and something.
And now they're in the God knows 70 thousands,but, he was four.
And they had just been bought by a firm out ofOmaha called Dana Larson Aruba, which is today
called DLR.
But I was their first employee when Dana LarsonAruba bought Lester Mahoney.
I was the first employee to be hired.
(08:54):
And the other employees, the other four peoplethat were there were, I don't know, 85.
And they the only job they had ever had.
And it was it was strange, but I was sent allover the state because, Daniel Arson Ruble,
their bread and butter was working on what wascalled Indian housing for the housing and urban
(09:19):
development, department of the federal,government, HUD.
And so I got to learn about all the indigenouspeople and how they lived and actually visit
the villages and the reservations from onecorner of the state to the other, taking
(09:41):
photographs and doing research and getting paidfor it at the same time.
But it, again, you know, when I look back, ithad a profound influence on me.
And to this day, it does.
I mean, I have so much respect for the lessonsthat were passed on, you know, from the Native
Americans.
(10:02):
They're still valid even in the twenty firstcentury, and I certainly abide by them.
So, but, and then, you know, I became eligibleto take the exams.
I took the exams.
Back then it was, gosh, it was, you could takethem once a year.
And it was a Saturday and a Sunday, and thenthe following weekend, another Saturday and
(10:23):
Sunday, eight hour days, thirty two hours oftesting.
And I did it at the School of Architecture atASU because they had drafting tables and you
took your test on a drafting table.
And I passed all of the tests except design.
And but I was thrilled because I knew I couldnail design.
(10:47):
I overthought it, you know, and that's why Ifailed and I didn't finish and, you know,
nothing to it.
So I waited the, you know, obligatory, maybeanother year or two, and took that test and of
course passed it.
And that's when I became an architect.
I continued working for what is now, no one'sstill called Lesher Mahoney, and my wife lost
(11:16):
her job and we had just bought a sports car,which I then had to sell immediately.
And A sports car wasn't it?
It was a Jensen Healy.
A Jensen convertible.
Great car.
Fast.
A Lotus engine.
Anyway, two seater.
And and the the man who bought it, ChuckTatham, you know, he he was he was a
(11:38):
optometrist slash attorney and very smart.
And when I when I told him what I did, youknow, I go, oh, you're an architect.
I go, yeah.
But I wasn't yet.
And, he goes, well, I have some property.
Would you design me a house?
Because he knew he could get a deal with this,you know, naive kid.
(12:02):
And I said, yeah.
So I'll do it.
And by the time I did do it, I had becomelicensed.
And then we, you know, bedded out and of courseit was over budget.
Gosh, it was 7,500 square feet on the side of ahill and $200,000 was over budget.
(12:24):
All right.
Did the house with eight sheets of paper and Istamped every sheet.
I stamped the civil electrical drawings, thestructural drawings, the architectural
drawings, the plumbing drawings, everything hadmy stamp on it.
Eight sheets of paper, got a permit in twoweeks.
And then it bid over budget and Chuck said,well, Eddie, why don't we build it ourselves?
(12:47):
Sure.
And I had worked in the oil fields of Oklahomato get myself through college.
And so I hadn't really built anything, but Icertainly knew how to work.
And, and I I and I of course, I knew how to sayyes.
I knew when opportunity rose its head.
I was smart enough or dumb enough to always sayyes.
(13:10):
So we did, I became a general contractorwithout any experience.
By God, we got that house built and, itlaunched my career.
Now, when I say launch, that sort of impliessome kind of acceleration.
It was far from acceleration, but it but itallowed me to quit my day job.
(13:31):
And it's, you know, my drafting table fromcollege was already set up in my spare bedroom.
So it was that easy.
I quit my job on Friday.
I woke up Monday morning and I was in business.
Jones Studio was in business.
And I had one house to build and I built it.
(13:51):
And fortunately, the phone rang about a monthlater and another house in Wickenburg, which I
ended up building that too because now I was ageneral contractor.
It was the design build.
Didn't even know the term.
So you were doing design build 1979?
Yeah.
1980.
And, it had damn near killed me because I hadno employees.
(14:14):
It was just me and my Volkswagen, which Iliterally drove into the ground.
I mean, it I had to just throw it away.
But and then, you know, by then I had madefriends, you know, colleagues in the valley
and, you know, if they needed some help, youknow, I could do a rendering, I could do a set
(14:34):
of working drawings and I managed to supportmyself and my family.
If you want to call that support, you know,having, you know, zeroing out your checkbook
every month and not having health insurance,not having any safety net whatsoever.
But, you know, I was lucky.
And in 1980 I believe my brother, my youngerbrother, six years younger, he had gone to
(14:58):
architecture school at Oklahoma state and thenwent on to the university of Illinois to to
take advantage of a new degree that they hadinvented, it was called the double masters, a
masters in architecture and a masters inbusiness administration.
Man, when I was in college, well, you know,it's the early or the mid sixties, and and we
(15:19):
were all hippies, which meant money wasmaterialistic, and God forbid, you, you know,
make money.
And so I literally to this day know nothingabout making money, but my brother did.
And, he had, once he graduated with his doublemasters, he went to work for a big firm in
(15:42):
Atlanta that did sports facilities, ErieInternational.
And then when he felt comfortable, he moved toArizona and then he became my partner.
And gosh, you know, he, that bless his heart.
He was willing to go without a paycheck for ayear, pounding on pounding the pavement as my
dad would say, you know, trying to shakesomething out of the trees, you know, because
(16:05):
again, back then it was still the good old boynetwork, and there were just certain firms in
the valley that just got all the work.
And what they weren't interested in, you know,would kind of fall off the, the crumbs would
fall off the table.
And I was under, or Neil was there to catchthem.
But then after about a year, Phoenix adopted anew policy for public buildings.
(16:29):
It's taxpayer money.
Therefore the procurement of architects shouldbe a competitive process.
It should be a level playing field, which wasgreat for Neil and I, because, I mean, you
know, we really didn't have any experienceother than houses, but we were able to submit a
(16:50):
request for qualification or RFP requests for aproposal.
And so we started doing that.
And again, failure after failure,disappointment after disappointment.
But he kept at it and he would try to createrelationships with these departments, these
(17:10):
public departments that we were trying to, youknow, get to do their building.
And finally, Arizona State Parks shortlisted usfor a visitor center, interpretive center at
Molifey Ruins State Park.
Have you ever heard of it?
Probably not.
Nope.
(17:31):
But it's a state park in Arizona that nobody'sever heard of.
Perfect for us.
And it's North of Winslow and it overlooks thewhole valley.
It used to be Hopi land and there are a lot ofHopi remains, Anastasi remains.
And that's why it's a state park, But theyneeded an interpretive center, a place where
(17:51):
visitors could learn about the significance ofthe area.
And we were shortlisted with other firms.
I don't remember which other firms were there,they saw something in us.
So they saw a passion for design, certainly arespect for the land and a respect for
(18:12):
indigenous cultures because of my experience,you know, with working with the Hopi, as well
as Navajo and the Pachis, everybody in Arizona.
Leap of faith, they hired us.
And to this day, that building is still dear tomy heart.
(18:32):
It was the breakthrough we needed two yearsago.
And at the building, it was 35 years old, twoyears ago.
And we submitted it for a twenty five yearaward, an AIA twenty five year award, which is
given to buildings that have endured not onlyintact for twenty five years, not messed up,
(18:56):
you know, by remodeling or whatever, but stillintact, still original, and still serving the
same purpose that they did, which is prettyrare.
Yeah.
And so we had hit the thirty five year mark.
I think it's about time we submitted thisbuilding.
Now mind you, remember, it was our first nonhouse building.
And and we had no money left.
(19:18):
Of course, we just we just spent it all doingthe best damn job we could.
So it was never photographed.
It never got any recognition.
It was this little jewel sitting out in themiddle of the painted desert that nobody knew
about.
And so, and I started calling the park serviceand asking them, you know, and I braced myself
(19:39):
because I said, well, so how's that buildingdoing?
You know, God damn it.
It's leaking blah, blah, blah.
None of that happened.
Only just the most wonderful things were said.
In fact, the manager of all the Northern parkssaid he still considers it the best visitor
center in the whole system.
(19:59):
He said, wow.
Do you know why Eddie?
Because when I'm out, you know, traveling inmy, you know, quad, you know, just checking
things out, I can't even see the building.
You know?
It blends in so beautifully, and it's just it'sjust the exact architecture that that place
(20:20):
needed.
And it's made of rusted metal and stone.
Why the rusted metal?
It was the first time to my knowledge that anyarchitect in Arizona had just taken cold rolled
sheet metal and used it as a cladding.
You know, not core 10, nothing fancy, justbasic sheet metal.
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And I did that because when I was I thought Iagain, a hippie.
I've got I've got to spend the night on thesite.
I've got you know, I'm happy to feel it.
And so I took my sleeping bag and, man, themosquitoes at the park drove me off, but at
(21:07):
least I, I was able to do a sincere, thoroughwalk of that site, which I frankly, I got to
pick out.
I mean, can you imagine, I mean, your firstreal job and they say, you know, we've got like
800 acres here.
Where do you think it should go?
Wow.
(21:27):
And so I got to choose the site, but anyway, tomake my point, as I was exploring it, you know,
there's pot chards and there's animal bones.
And of course there's all the high desertgrasses and most mostly dirt.
And here's this coffee can, this rustic coffeecan half buried, you know, and it was it was
(21:49):
this this man made object had been thrownthere, and mother nature was slowly dismantling
it, eating it, and taking it back.
I thought I have to use a metal material so shecan start taking it back.
And then the stone part, well, grief,everything up there is made of stone.
(22:09):
Was, you know, the indigenous Americans justlooked at what they were standing on and they
built with that.
No matter where the high plains Indians, the,you know, Southwestern, the East Coast, they
all just built with what was under their feet.
And so there, there, there wasn't a lot ofstone on our site, but the local farmers in
(22:31):
that part of Arizona, you know, would tilltheir crops and they would always dig up stone
and they would stockpile it.
So they gave it to us.
So now we have the material for free.
How do we get it onto the building?
Well, just South Of Winslow is a statepenitentiary.
And there were five incarcerated Masons thatwere more than happy to get a day off, you
(22:57):
know, to, to do your trade.
And so they laid the stone.
Beautiful.
It's poetic.
And so anyway, the building won.
It won the 25 award.
And so it finally got the recognition that itdeserved.
And I was, I could have not been more proud ofan award than that one.
(23:18):
And we've had, as you said, a lot of awards,but that one was super special.
So this this is an unbelievable inspirationalstory of how how you did this thing.
You didn't have any money still, but it wasthe, we we've done it.
We've hit the the big time, if you will.
(23:40):
You know, we've we've done something so youknow?
Well, but that's
only in retrospect.
That's only in retrospect.
At the time, you're just struggling and hopingyou're going to get a better job.
Yeah.
So I guess that that goes to the question then.
So when did when did the studio start becominglike a, oh, we've got, like, a real business
(24:02):
here.
Like, this is a real like, this can pay people.
I'll be happy to tell you.
We you know, the Mollavee's finished, and thenthere's some more houses to do.
Then the Bureau of Land Management hires us todo literally an outhouse out in the middle of
the desert
When nature calls, as they say.
(24:23):
West West Of New River.
There's there's a trail from New River toPrescott, it's called the Black Canyon Trail.
And it used to be where, you know, rancherswould herd their sheep north and it's still
used as a hiking trail today.
So, you know, hikers needed a place to parktheir vehicles in preparation for to begin the
(24:47):
hike.
It'd be nice to have some picnic tables and weneed a restroom for them.
This, and that was the job.
A restroom.
And it had to be self sufficient.
There's no electricity, no plumbing, no water,no nothing, and no maintenance.
And so we designed this and they really arebeautiful, really beautiful little structures
(25:09):
and composting toilets.
One solar collector to power things.
Clad cladden metal and concrete blockconstruction to withstand the bullet holes that
were inevitable, which to me just added to thecharacter.
It's like the patina of oxidation on the metal,along with the bullet holes.
(25:33):
It's all, it's all in it's all it's just, andthat won a lot of awards too.
But the real breakthrough came when, the St.
Louis Cardinals national football team wereasked to leave St.
Louis or they wasn't had enough of the Bidwellfamily.
And so they moved in Tempe.
(25:54):
Everybody wanted a football team.
And so Tempe, their carrot was a free trainingfacility.
If you come to Tempe, will give you thistraining facility.
Now training facilities are a big deal.
I mean, that's headquarters.
That's where all the executives are.
That's where all the coaches are.
(26:15):
That's where all the players are, the lockerrooms, the weight rooms, everything.
And so I don't know if you've ever seen it.
It's on the corner of Hardy and, Warner inTempe.
And we had never done a training facility, butNeil, you know, had that experience at Hiri.
And we were in association with an architectnamed Dave.
(26:39):
It's jumping out of my head, but he was a Tempearchitect.
That was part of the criteria.
You have to have a Tempe architect.
Kenyon, Dave Kenyon.
And so we were smart enough to hire aconsultant, a design consultant, who had been
on the architecture team for the Dallas Cowboystraining facility.
(27:03):
Unbeknownst to us, the vice president of theCardinals had been with the Dallas Cowboys
previously and really liked this guy.
So he's on our team and we're competing againstHOK, Smith Group, all these high powered firms,
and we get the job.
(27:23):
Man, when I was that satisfied.
And, you know, it was up to me to design it.
And it's like, oh man.
I mean, this was very complex programming andadjacencies and stacking.
And I mean, there's no way you can screw thisup because it's too serious.
(27:46):
And so I can remember I'm on my desk, you know,I've got the site plan and goes, okay, I
learned how to do this in school.
I'm just going to do it.
And the football fields, you know, the site wasan old alfalfa field in Tempe, Warren, Hardy.
So it was to the eye, it looked level, but itreally, because of the irrigation of the
(28:07):
alfalfa, it had a slope to it.
And by the time you put two football fields onit, your level football fields on it, it
created a five foot offset where the buildingwas going.
So I was able to site the building parallel tothe football fields, which were parallel to the
(28:30):
railroad tracks, which is why Sun Devil Stadiumis oriented the way it is.
And so the building kind of became a retainingwall resolve that five foot offset.
And if you see the building, it's a goodbuilding.
The west side is where the coaches are.
(28:51):
You would think they would want the coaches onthe East side overlooking the football fields,
but that that sounds logical, but it'sillogical.
The coaches are on the field when the playersare on the field, so the executives want to be
able to overlook the fields.
The coaches can be on the West side because theplayers won't be on the field.
So I get that.
But the thing is that it faced west in Arizona.
(29:16):
Yet, you know, these offices, corridor ofoffices wanted sunlight.
So the diagram is football fields, the upperlevel football fields, executives, support,
coaches, parking.
So I gave the coaches an exterior corridor aswell as an interior corridor linking them
(29:40):
together.
Then the entire west elevation, I needed asunscreen.
I needed to let the light in, but block theheat gain.
What could be used to do that?
And then I I was, I probably at, I can'tremember what it was called back then, but but
a construction supply place for anotherproject.
(30:04):
And I saw these terracotta fireplace chimneyflue liners.
That's it.
Fireplace chimney flue liners laidhorizontally.
And they were about sixteen, eighteen inchessquare with rounded corners and 24 inches deep.
And you could calculate the sun as it'sdropping in the western skies, that 24 inches
(30:30):
cut it off.
And just as the sun was about to penetrate the24 inches because it's parallel perpendicular,
it dropped behind South Mountain.
So I get this wall of terracotta, you know,beautiful patterning, beautiful light and
shadow.
The east side, we put glass in so everybodycould overlook the playing fields.
(30:55):
There was even a special projected space thatwas, as you entered the building, as visitors
entered the building, the focal point went intothis special memorabilia room.
It's where the all the trophies and the oldhelmets and the, you know, recognition would be
displayed.
And it had glass mullions.
(31:17):
It was all glass, but to laterally brace theglass from wind load, I had like 24 inches deep
glass mullions.
You cantilevered because when you entered,remember the football fields are chalked lines,
right?
Going horizontally.
And then the glass overlapping created thisvertical striation.
(31:39):
And so you get this super imposition of, theglass lines overlooking, overlapping the
horizontal lines, and it was just beautiful.
And right in the middle of the room was anempty display case for this for the future
Super Bowl trophy.
I thought that was a a sign of a gesture ofoptimism.
(32:03):
They did, and it was removed.
I guess if you had to walk past a a trophy thatyou didn't have, and depending on how long you
didn't have said trophy and if we hopefully runthrough history that we don't have.
Yeah.
They they were probably like
That would be a rough walk every day.
Okay.
So you you get to build this this facilityhere, and that's that's the time where, okay,
(32:27):
we we have done it.
Now we're rolling as a business.
We're It's gotta sell the math.
Made people.
We're able to do all the fun stuff.
Then?
Yeah.
It it started to mature.
Jones Studios started to mature.
We we were in a space on twelfth Street andCampbell, a building by the great modernist Al
(32:48):
Beetle.
And, we were there for thirty three years, andwe produced a lot of work.
And but as our reputation grew, so did, Isuppose public interest.
And so the Scottsdale Museum of ContemporaryArt asked Joan's studio to exhibit our work.
That's, that's a big deal.
(33:08):
Know, that's very flattering.
Right?
Although, however, we had been asked to exhibitour work before in various venues, and I knew
that it was a lot of work with very littlefeedback and a lot of work to put up, a lot of
work to take down.
Where do you store it?
And so I said, you know, I don't know.
(33:30):
So, but I was still obligated to tell thestudio about such an important invitation.
Fortunately, it was a Friday afternoon.
And back then, we bought lots of beer on Fridayafternoons and sat around and had fun on the
conference table.
And Jacob Bene, who's now my partner and ownsthe company, he said, well, why don't we be the
(33:54):
exhibit?
And, you know, we all laughed and chuckled anddidn't take it seriously.
But on the way home, I thought that's it.
That would be worth it.
We are the exhibit.
They'll never go for it.
They'll just they say, absolutely not.
We can't take the liability, blah blah blah,whatever.
But I pitched the idea and they didn't hesitateto say yes.
(34:18):
I mean, immediately they said yes.
And they built us an office in one of thegalleries.
And we moved in for four months.
We sublet our space back on Twelfth Street AndCampbell, and we were a living architecture
firm exhibit in that gallery.
You can imagine how unproductive it was, but itwas offset by the adjacency to people that were
(34:47):
interested in architecture.
Because if you were in that gallery, you wereinterested in architecture.
Teachers would bring school children, parentswould bring their children, college students
from other universities would come in.
It was it was just great.
Any one of us would do it again.
But during that time, there was a an RFQannounced by the federal government, by the
(35:10):
General Services Administration, asking forproposals to do a new land port of entry,
actually a modernization of an existing landport of entry called Mariposa in Nogales, five
miles west of Downtown Nogales.
And I had been hired by the GSA about a yearbefore that as a peer reviewer.
(35:35):
And I had done peer reviews on land ports ofentry in Texas.
So I kind of, you know, felt like I knewsomething about this.
And Neil, my brother, he thought this is awaste of time.
There's no way we're going to get hired forthis.
We don't have any thing remotely you could callexperience because it's commercial trucking,
(35:57):
it's private vehicle inspection, it'spedestrian processing.
I mean, it's just this huge, you know, monster.
I don't know, Neil.
I I think I know something about this.
And so because, you know, we're we'reArizonans, you know, it was easy to do research
for, you know, Nogales, Arizona and Nogales,Sonora.
(36:24):
They they used to be one it used to be onecity.
Now it's separated by this unusual, ineffectivething on the wall.
But, I wrote about it.
I wrote about how the population of Nogalesswells on weekends, you know, of tourists and
shoppers.
And then it then it recedes, you know, onSunday only only to, you know, blossom again on
(36:49):
the following weekend.
And, and the locals call that ambient Nogales.
Nogales, ambos nogales, Spanish.
And and ironically, that's where public policyis made on this ethereal sort of almost
imaginary population that's never truly exists.
(37:12):
And I just thought that was beautiful.
And so I wrote about that.
Long story short, we get shortlisted with otherfirms that have way more experience and I'm
scared.
So can I say shitless?
You can say shitless.
You're totally welcome to.
And, you know, we have to go to San Franciscofor the interviews and anyway, we practice and
(37:36):
I'm kind of feeling sick and this is gonna be adisaster.
But I walk into the conference room and one ofmy favorite architects and a friend is a guy
named Larry Scarpa.
He won the national gold medal a couple ofyears ago.
Very good architect in Santa Monica.
(37:56):
And he's sitting at the conference table as apeer reviewer.
He goes, Eddie, I really like your work.
And once he said that everything just calmeddown.
Again, we were, we were probably 11 people atthe time broke.
I mean, were out of work.
That checkbook was getting to be zero.
(38:17):
And it wasn't long after Christmas that our faxmachine kicked in and it was the letter saying
you got the job.
It's like,
oh, God.
That was 02/2007.
Of course, then January comes along, and thenit's 02/2008, and then comes along the
(38:38):
recession.
The crash.
Yeah.
The crash happened.
And here we are, a little Jones studio with thelargest construction project in Arizona, and
all of our best architects being laid off forshutting their doors.
So we cherry picked all the best architects.
And over the next eight years, you know, weproduced that 54 acre, national award winning,
(39:03):
reinvented land port of entry called Mariposa.
What an experience.
What an education.
I mean, it was trial by fire, but we did it andit was so successful.
And how do you measure success in the land portof entry?
In a way, it was easy to improve because theexisting port had been designed and built in
(39:27):
1973, and now it was 2,008.
And you can imagine how the capacity wasdesigned for a certain number of trucks.
Well, the NAFTA treaty changed all of that.
So now we're getting produce trucks from SouthAmerica, Central America, well as Mexico.
(39:50):
And Tucson is perfectly positioned for a truckto access the interstate highway system that
branches out into The United States.
And so it was overcapacity.
Customers and border protection, the tenants,were doing a gosh valiant job of keeping up
with the security protocols and the number oftrucks and people.
(40:14):
I mean, it was massive.
Our challenge, and remember, we don't have anyexperience.
Somewhere 11 people, but now we grew to 24.
We have to redesign, modernize, tear down,rebuild this lamp port of entry without ever
shutting it down.
But that's why they're so expensive.
(40:35):
But we did it.
And, and of this dust bowl that we encounteredwhen we first visited the site, the truck
fumes, I mean, because these trucks are waitingten hours.
I imagine that how much exhaust is created inten hours of trucks idling.
And then you've got the heat and there was no,there's no nature.
(40:59):
I mean, it was just all dirt and pavement,which radiated even more heat.
And so immediately we decided, you know, thisplace needs a garden.
It needs, you know, this port needs to be in agarden, which cleans the air, which absorbs the
heat, which will, know, show respect for thevisitors as well as the truckers.
(41:23):
And we literally reinvented how one approachesthe design of a land port of entry.
And it was all based on one sentence out of apoem.
The border is what connects us, not whatseparates us.
And as long as you have that positive attitudeabout this being a unifier, then you can do
(41:45):
things that you wouldn't think of if youthought it was a separator.
And so we do a garden.
We use the buildings to create the securitybarriers rather than relying on razor wire and
barbed wire.
The architecture created a compound.
And the best part though, is how do youirrigate a 54 acre garden when the little town
(42:08):
of Nogales is already has a weak water systemand it rains infrequently in South, not to
mention here.
And so we created a 1,000,000 gallonunderground water storage tank, and the first
monsoon filled that storage tank to capacity,and it's never been empty since.
(42:29):
And we have this beautiful, lush garden thatpeople enter into.
Now, I don't know if you've ever crossed aborder, but personal inspection sucks.
No matter what color you are, it sucks.
And so, but when you're entering thisinspection zone through a garden, you know, the
(42:53):
the fear, the anxiety drops, which allows theofficers, the CBP officers, their anxiety level
drops, things go smoothly.
And it does, rarely is there a confrontation.
There are seizures, of course, but but you'd besurprised how peaceful land ports of entry are
(43:16):
all up and down the southern border.
And we're on our eighth one now, so I know whatI'm talking about.
And so beware of that those 06:00 news cyclesduring election cycles because it's a lot of BS
comes out of that.
But anyway, that that one, that we really grewup on the Mariposa job, and we've never looked
(43:38):
back.
And I guess we're now getting pigeonholed inland ports of entry because like I said, we're
on our eighth one.
But they're fun.
They're because the complexity just causes youto, you know, think and the issues and the
challenges are so diverse that the only way youcan get through it is through creative thought
(44:02):
process.
You can't think conventionally.
And and then you have all interaction with theCBP officers and the GSA people.
And I mean, it's it's just tons of people, notto mention the the the sister cities.
It is so it's impactful.
It's very impactful work.
I think we make a huge difference.
(44:24):
And, that's why I get up in the morning.
Well, one thing you mentioned was Jacob, one ofthe people that came up, as as you're going
through this process.
So obviously, there's succession plan in place,and you and Neil said, hey.
We need to pass this down.
So a, why?
Why would that the decision that need to bemade, but then also Jacob and whoever what
(44:48):
other partners that are there, why why werethey the the the chosen ones, if you will?
I'm I'm glad you asked that question because itgives me an opportunity to brag about my
incredible partners, not to mention the entirestaff here at Jones Studio.
But, you know, I've I've never been one tooverthink business.
(45:11):
Years ago, gosh, I can't remember how long agoit was, but we would have him I hate to use the
word employ interviews, but we would interviewthe friends that worked at Jones Studio.
Jacob Jacob had come as an intern while he wasstill at school.
Brian came as an intern while he was still inschool.
(45:32):
And I was sort of his mentor at U of A on histhesis project.
And, and then Neil and I knew right away these,these guys were special.
And, but anyway, they had been working with usand they're one of the reasons we were doing so
well.
And Brian said first, he said, you know, I wanta title because his business card was just
(45:58):
Brian Farling, Jones Studio.
Jacob Binnie, Jones Studio.
Eddie Jones, Jones Studio.
The title?
You you want a title?
Yeah.
You know, because my friends and we're, youknow, parties, and I just, you know, would like
to be recognized as something more than just anemployee.
(46:20):
I go, gosh, I never thought of that, Brian.
Thank you for mentioning that.
Let me give that some thought.
And Jacob did the same thing.
And so Neil and I talked afterwards.
I said, Neil, you know, you and I, you know, wewe're we're gonna be getting up in the years
pretty soon.
And can you imagine, you know, that if youretire and I drop dead, you know, there there's
(46:45):
nothing They they they would have to shut thedoors.
And can you imagine dedicating half your lifeto a a a studio or company, and then the door
shut and you're 50 years old?
And I go, that just doesn't seem responsible.
It doesn't seem right.
So we should do something about that.
(47:06):
So, then I guess so he so Neil, you know, heloves to do research.
And so this word succession came There's a wordfor it.
And and we hired a consultant to help, youknow, who specialized in architecture firm
succession plans and good advice, great advice.
You know, we got an attorney, you know, andthis and that.
(47:29):
And slowly, we, you know, we sold off somestock.
You know, so they became partners.
So we have, there were four partners, Neil andI, and Brian and Jacob.
Then, you know, then recently, within the lasttwo years, you know, knew he was going to
retire this year.
(47:49):
And I thought, well, you know, I'm not gonnaretire, but, you know, I can sell my stock too
and stick around.
And and that's what we did.
And and they became the owner principles ofJones Studio.
I'm still the founding principle.
And so when I drop dead, this place will go on.
(48:12):
If they wanna change the name, they can changethe name.
I don't care.
I just want them to have a home, and they willhave a home.
Next question.
Well,
I mean, so, you know, when it when you talkabout succession, start initially, it started
with title.
Event eventually, you went through and thoughtabout, well, what happens after us?
(48:37):
Which is, I mean, being an apathetic leader, Imean, that's almost like a requirement.
Was this about legacy at all?
No.
It wasn't.
But being from Oklahoma, and my parents werepart of the greatest generation, they taught me
the saying is don't toot your own horn.
(48:59):
And I'm very uncomfortable tooting my own horn,thanks to mom and dad.
This is a legacy firm.
I mean, by sheer longevity.
I mean, you've got much larger firms inPhoenix, the Valley.
You don't have too many that are older thanJones Studio.
Smith Group and Gensler, we were here beforethey were, even though they're older firms, you
(49:24):
know, from somewhere else.
But we we were here before they were.
In fact, Gensler's here because of us.
We we partnered with them on a project on theASU campus, which gave them a foothold in the
valley.
But and then then I think because I am gonnatoot my horn now because the integrity of
(49:45):
Joan's studio, the values we have, and the factthat we've sustained those values for always
putting the architecture first, the communityfirst, people first, has a reputation, an
authentic reputation for excellence.
And that should not be squandered.
(50:08):
Brian and Jacob and everybody outside this roomin the studio is very capable of continuing and
carrying on this value system.
They wouldn't be here unless they agreed withthe value system.
They wouldn't be here if they didn't enjoygetting the tough projects.
(50:28):
We are not for everybody.
There has to be a compatibility for us to signup on this adventure called architecture.
We've only got one project in our entireportfolio that was, with a developer.
And it turned out great.
It's an excellent project, but we never gothired by a developer again.
(50:51):
And, you know, it's they have different values.
Right?
I mean, everything's business.
Everything has a profit.
You gotta make you gotta spend this much money,then you have to make at least this much money
no matter what.
And so that's just not what we do.
To answer your question, I admit that this is alegacy firm and it deserves to continue.
(51:14):
And I have no doubt that it will.
Probably even better.
They'll get better.
They'll soar even higher.
They you know, going from architect to businessowner.
Right?
Like, that's not like an overnight thing.
Very different responsibilities.
How long
maybe it's a continual thing.
How long before Jacob and Brian were ready tobe a partner and really take on the role of
(51:40):
ownership and all the responsibilities, what dothey have to go through or still going through?
Got it.
Or to trust that they could be responsibleenough?
Well, one once we especially once we sold them5% of the stock, it you could see it.
I mean, that that's it's remarkable, isn't it?
(52:03):
This this little thing that the you know, thisskin in the game, as they say, even if it's
just a little bit of skin in the game, makes ahuge difference.
I don't know.
I and I I don't think it's comes from fear offailure.
Oh my god.
I got skin in the game and I can't lose myskin.
It's like I have responsibility.
I mean, I own something, you know?
(52:25):
And I think that that was very positive.
And they immediately began to grow as leaders.
They already were, but I could see a differencein the attitude.
And so by the time, you know, Neil and I wereready to let go of ownership, they they were
(52:48):
ready.
And having said that, Neil retires, Jacob takesover the business, Brian does all the heavy
lifting with design.
I'm still doing master plans for all the portsand sometimes, you know, I'll design all the
buildings and then Brian will design all thebuildings for this port.
(53:10):
You know, it's split very well.
It's very organic split too.
It's almost like who's available.
But again, it was one thing to see theirbeautiful growth with just 5% of the company.
(53:32):
Now that they've got a 100% of the company, ohmy god.
You know, it's the same thing's happening onlyin a much larger sphere.
And I love it.
I mean, it's just something so bad everybodycan't witness what I'm witnessing.
It's, it's just thrilling and fulfilling at thesame time.
That's beautiful.
It's, it's really cool to hear the organictransition and then how you get to still have a
(53:59):
front row seat to the growth.
That's amazing, which actually puts us in agood position for our last question that we
love to ask people.
If you could go back twenty years, Eddie, whatwould you tell yourself?
What advice would you give twenty years ago,Eddie, that would you think would be impactful
for '20 02/2005,
(54:21):
Well, in a way I get to do that all the timebecause I have students, you know, that come in
and they wanna know how did you do it and whatadvice do you have?
And they are thirty, forty years, fifty yearsyounger than I am.
And so it it it gives me a a moment to reflect.
(54:45):
It's it's pretty, pretty simple.
I succeeded.
And my definition of succeeding is, did you getto have fun your entire life?
Did was it ever work?
No.
I never worked because I was having too muchfun.
Were there downtimes and hard times andfailures?
(55:05):
Yes.
But it was all part of the soup that just madelife so enriching.
And so I tell students, you know, you can't dothis for the money.
And if I were talking to a a law student, Iwould tell them the same thing.
Or a ditch digger student, you can't do it forthe money.
You have to love it.
If you love it, the money will come.
(55:27):
I promise you, the money will come.
But first, you have to love it.
And so twenty years ago, I was already livingthat advice that maybe I did verbalize in my
head.
I've always said my greatest quality wasnaivete.
I never thought what could go wrong.
(55:48):
I never learned to fear.
Looking back, it's like, oh my god, what am Ithinking?
Phew, that was a close one.
But there's a lot to be said about naivete andand curiosity and having the courage to say
yes.
Believe in yourself.
Alright.
(56:08):
Well put.
This has been a ton of fun.
Is if somebody wanted to get a hold of you, isthere a good way for them to do that?
Well, we have a website, I'm told.
Yeah.
And I guess we have all of those social mediaconnections.
Kirsten will be happy to share those with you.
I'll put all Our those in your address iseasily accessible and our door is always open
(56:34):
and I never say no to a young person that wantsto talk.
Most young people are wanting a job, but youknow, we can't hire everybody.
But but I say, but nevertheless, if you wannacome in and talk about my favorite subject
architecture, let's do it.
Alright.
(56:54):
Like I said, I'll throw website and all yoursocials in the show notes there.
This has been a ton of fun.
Yes, is.
Thank you.
I've been very inspired.
I think about just say yes to things, you know,be be silly enough to say yes to things maybe
from time to time and great things will happen.
Like I said, this has been a blast.
And until next time, listeners.
(57:14):
Adios.
Adios.
Thanks for listening to Building Scale.
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And our mission is to help the AEC industryprotect itself by making technology easy.
(57:38):
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Keep building scale.
Crash.
Yeah.
The crash happened.
And here we are at Little Jones studio with thelargest construction project in Arizona.
And all of our best architects being laid offfor shutting their doors.
So we cherry picked all the best architects.
And and over the next eight years, you know, weproduced that 54 acre national award winning
(00:24):
reinvented land port of entry called Mariposa.
What an experience.
What an educate
Have you ever wondered how successfularchitecture, engineering, and construction
companies scale their business?
Or have you ever wanted guidance on how to getmore growth, wealth, and freedom from your AEC
(00:45):
company?
Well, then you're in luck.
Hi.
I'm Will Foratt.
And I'm Justin Nagel, and we're your podcasthosts.
We interview successful AEC business leaders tolearn how they use people, process, and
technology to scale their businesses.
So sit back and get ready to learn from theindustry's best.
This is
building scale.
(01:09):
Hey, listeners.
It's Will here.
Our mission is to help the AAC industry protectitself by making technology easy.
If you've ever listened to our show, then youknow that the three pillars of scaling a
business are people, process, and technology.
So if you suspect technology is your weak link,then book a call with us to see where we can
help maximize your company's IT cybersecuritystrategy.
(01:33):
Just go to buildingscale.net/health.
Today's guest is Eddie Jones, founder of JonesStudio.
He founded Jones Studio in 1979, and they arean award winning architecture interior design
and planning firm based in Tempe, Arizona.
Go Devils.
I always love Tempe, Arizona for sure.
(01:55):
He's led the firm to 240 plus design awardsincluding National AIA Honor Award and GSA
Design Excellence Honor recognized with the topindustry honors including AIA Arizona's
architects medal and fellowship in the AIA.
Jones Studio specializes in sustainableresilient design for public and private sector
(02:18):
clients across The US, known for high profilecivic projects like the Mariposa Land Port
Venturi and for creating strong design buildcollaborations.
Firm was named firm of the year by both AIAArizona and AIA Western Mountain region.
And with all that fun stuff said, Eddie,welcome to the show.
(02:38):
Thank you.
Appreciate the invitation.
Yeah.
No.
When I met you was at an AIA event because we II got invited to it from another guest.
And he said to me, oh, this is the bestarchitect in if not all the ballet, maybe the
whole country.
So I was like, well, that sounds pretty good tome.
Gang is too kind.
(02:58):
At least here in in the Valley, I can tell youthat.
Thank you.
Yeah.
So I said all these nice things, but tell usthe real story.
How'd you get into architecture?
Tell us about Jump Studios, the beginnings,the, you know, going through that.
Let's let's hear it from the Eddie's mouth, asthey say.
Well, my story is is very conventional.
(03:19):
You know, as a child, six year old child, beganto, I don't know, gravitate.
Didn't even know that word at six years old.
Some buildings that didn't look like my house.
My, my mother back in the fifties, you know,there were these women's home magazines and it
(03:46):
was mid century.
Right.
And they were publishing the, this sort of newpost war style of low pitched roofs, lots of
glass.
Most of it was not in Oklahoma.
That's for sure.
And, and it, it fascinated me and I taughtmyself how to look at the photographs and
(04:08):
figure out, and the floor plans were alsopublished and I could identify the location in
the floor plan where the photograph was taken.
Eventually I could do that as a, as a smallboy, which sort of, and I was good in art at
school.
And so my parents said, you know, you probablywant to be an architect.
(04:29):
And I go, okay.
And then I discovered, Frank Lloyd Wright, likea lot of people of my generation.
And that, that was it.
That sealed the deal.
That's what I wanted to be, which is inretrospect as an adult, I can see that in
retrospect, that was a huge advantage because Icould focus on my education.
(04:54):
Do little kids focus on education?
Well, yeah.
You know, I took every art class I could.
Of course, in curious.
That's probably been my greatest enduringquality is curiosity.
And so any book that had art or architecture init, would, I would devour.
(05:15):
Junior high there weren't any computers then.
And so one would learn mechanical drawing.
That's what it was called mechanical drawing.
You had a drafting board.
You had T squares, you had triangles andpencils.
Man, I, did I find medium of communication?
I absolutely loved drawing with mechanicalequipment and excelled in geometry, blah, blah,
(05:40):
blah.
Anyway, you know, of course you go toarchitecture school, and I went to Oklahoma
State University and got my degree, bachelor'sdegree in architecture, and worked a year in
Oklahoma and, you know, just decided I've gotto, I've got to explore.
I need, I need a place that I can sort ofbecome whoever I was going to become.
(06:05):
I had to find that place and it, and I couldtell it wasn't my hometown, you know, it was a
great place to grow up.
Gosh, you know, I had a sheltered childhood.
I had parents that were supportive.
But I ended up in Arizona.
Why Arizona?
Well, because I had seen issues of Arizonahighways, probably the best chamber of commerce
(06:29):
medium ever invented.
And and and those, you know, silhouettes ofsaguaros against sunsets just were so unique.
And then, of course, Frank Lloyd Wright hadbeen here and Paolo Solari, who came from
Thales and was here.
I thought, that's it.
That's good enough for me.
Must be the land of opportunity, intellectualgrowth, of experimentation, of anything goes
(06:59):
you know, where determination pays off.
So I stupidly, again, retrospect, packed up myVW Volkswagen with my two year old son and my
wife and our few belongings and drove west andwithout looking back and no support system.
And we set up shop in Phoenix And it's been agreat it was a great life changing experience,
(07:25):
and it continues to be a life changingexperience.
I'm not stuck here, you know, at my age, havethe resources to travel the world, which I do,
but I you know, always returning, you know, tothe Sonoran is one of my favorite things.
So when you came to Arizona, is that when youset up Jones Studio?
Is that when it all happened, or did you firstwork somewhere else?
(07:48):
And then how did that work?
No.
I you know, when one graduates from anarchitecture school, that doesn't make you an
architect.
There was a three year or four yearapprenticeship.
That's what they called it, an apprenticeship.
Before you were even allowed to take the exams,which you then had to pass, and then you could
(08:10):
call yourself an architect.
And so, as I said, I worked in Oklahoma Cityfor about a year and then, you know,
accumulated enough money to, you know, headwest.
I went to work for the oldest architecture firmin Phoenix.
It was called Lesher Mahoney.
And Les Mahoney, his license number was 4.
(08:32):
Minus 10000 and something.
And now they're in the God knows 70 thousands,but, he was four.
And they had just been bought by a firm out ofOmaha called Dana Larson Aruba, which is today
called DLR.
But I was their first employee when Dana LarsonAruba bought Lester Mahoney.
I was the first employee to be hired.
(08:54):
And the other employees, the other four peoplethat were there were, I don't know, 85.
And they the only job they had ever had.
And it was it was strange, but I was sent allover the state because, Daniel Arson Ruble,
their bread and butter was working on what wascalled Indian housing for the housing and urban
(09:19):
development, department of the federal,government, HUD.
And so I got to learn about all the indigenouspeople and how they lived and actually visit
the villages and the reservations from onecorner of the state to the other, taking
(09:41):
photographs and doing research and getting paidfor it at the same time.
But it, again, you know, when I look back, ithad a profound influence on me.
And to this day, it does.
I mean, I have so much respect for the lessonsthat were passed on, you know, from the Native
Americans.
(10:02):
They're still valid even in the twenty firstcentury, and I certainly abide by them.
So, but, and then, you know, I became eligibleto take the exams.
I took the exams.
Back then it was, gosh, it was, you could takethem once a year.
And it was a Saturday and a Sunday, and thenthe following weekend, another Saturday and
(10:23):
Sunday, eight hour days, thirty two hours oftesting.
And I did it at the School of Architecture atASU because they had drafting tables and you
took your test on a drafting table.
And I passed all of the tests except design.
And but I was thrilled because I knew I couldnail design.
(10:47):
I overthought it, you know, and that's why Ifailed and I didn't finish and, you know,
nothing to it.
So I waited the, you know, obligatory, maybeanother year or two, and took that test and of
course passed it.
And that's when I became an architect.
I continued working for what is now, no one'sstill called Lesher Mahoney, and my wife lost
(11:16):
her job and we had just bought a sports car,which I then had to sell immediately.
And A sports car wasn't it?
It was a Jensen Healy.
A Jensen convertible.
Great car.
Fast.
A Lotus engine.
Anyway, two seater.
And and the the man who bought it, ChuckTatham, you know, he he was he was a
(11:38):
optometrist slash attorney and very smart.
And when I when I told him what I did, youknow, I go, oh, you're an architect.
I go, yeah.
But I wasn't yet.
And, he goes, well, I have some property.
Would you design me a house?
Because he knew he could get a deal with this,you know, naive kid.
(12:02):
And I said, yeah.
So I'll do it.
And by the time I did do it, I had becomelicensed.
And then we, you know, bedded out and of courseit was over budget.
Gosh, it was 7,500 square feet on the side of ahill and $200,000 was over budget.
(12:24):
All right.
Did the house with eight sheets of paper and Istamped every sheet.
I stamped the civil electrical drawings, thestructural drawings, the architectural
drawings, the plumbing drawings, everything hadmy stamp on it.
Eight sheets of paper, got a permit in twoweeks.
And then it bid over budget and Chuck said,well, Eddie, why don't we build it ourselves?
(12:47):
Sure.
And I had worked in the oil fields of Oklahomato get myself through college.
And so I hadn't really built anything, but Icertainly knew how to work.
And, and I I and I of course, I knew how to sayyes.
I knew when opportunity rose its head.
I was smart enough or dumb enough to always sayyes.
(13:10):
So we did, I became a general contractorwithout any experience.
By God, we got that house built and, itlaunched my career.
Now, when I say launch, that sort of impliessome kind of acceleration.
It was far from acceleration, but it but itallowed me to quit my day job.
(13:31):
And it's, you know, my drafting table fromcollege was already set up in my spare bedroom.
So it was that easy.
I quit my job on Friday.
I woke up Monday morning and I was in business.
Jones Studio was in business.
And I had one house to build and I built it.
(13:51):
And fortunately, the phone rang about a monthlater and another house in Wickenburg, which I
ended up building that too because now I was ageneral contractor.
It was the design build.
Didn't even know the term.
So you were doing design build 1979?
Yeah.
1980.
And, it had damn near killed me because I hadno employees.
(14:14):
It was just me and my Volkswagen, which Iliterally drove into the ground.
I mean, it I had to just throw it away.
But and then, you know, by then I had madefriends, you know, colleagues in the valley
and, you know, if they needed some help, youknow, I could do a rendering, I could do a set
(14:34):
of working drawings and I managed to supportmyself and my family.
If you want to call that support, you know,having, you know, zeroing out your checkbook
every month and not having health insurance,not having any safety net whatsoever.
But, you know, I was lucky.
And in 1980 I believe my brother, my youngerbrother, six years younger, he had gone to
(14:58):
architecture school at Oklahoma state and thenwent on to the university of Illinois to to
take advantage of a new degree that they hadinvented, it was called the double masters, a
masters in architecture and a masters inbusiness administration.
Man, when I was in college, well, you know,it's the early or the mid sixties, and and we
(15:19):
were all hippies, which meant money wasmaterialistic, and God forbid, you, you know,
make money.
And so I literally to this day know nothingabout making money, but my brother did.
And, he had, once he graduated with his doublemasters, he went to work for a big firm in
(15:42):
Atlanta that did sports facilities, ErieInternational.
And then when he felt comfortable, he moved toArizona and then he became my partner.
And gosh, you know, he, that bless his heart.
He was willing to go without a paycheck for ayear, pounding on pounding the pavement as my
dad would say, you know, trying to shakesomething out of the trees, you know, because
(16:05):
again, back then it was still the good old boynetwork, and there were just certain firms in
the valley that just got all the work.
And what they weren't interested in, you know,would kind of fall off the, the crumbs would
fall off the table.
And I was under, or Neil was there to catchthem.
But then after about a year, Phoenix adopted anew policy for public buildings.
(16:29):
It's taxpayer money.
Therefore the procurement of architects shouldbe a competitive process.
It should be a level playing field, which wasgreat for Neil and I, because, I mean, you
know, we really didn't have any experienceother than houses, but we were able to submit a
(16:50):
request for qualification or RFP requests for aproposal.
And so we started doing that.
And again, failure after failure,disappointment after disappointment.
But he kept at it and he would try to createrelationships with these departments, these
(17:10):
public departments that we were trying to, youknow, get to do their building.
And finally, Arizona State Parks shortlisted usfor a visitor center, interpretive center at
Molifey Ruins State Park.
Have you ever heard of it?
Probably not.
Nope.
(17:31):
But it's a state park in Arizona that nobody'sever heard of.
Perfect for us.
And it's North of Winslow and it overlooks thewhole valley.
It used to be Hopi land and there are a lot ofHopi remains, Anastasi remains.
And that's why it's a state park, But theyneeded an interpretive center, a place where
(17:51):
visitors could learn about the significance ofthe area.
And we were shortlisted with other firms.
I don't remember which other firms were there,they saw something in us.
So they saw a passion for design, certainly arespect for the land and a respect for
(18:12):
indigenous cultures because of my experience,you know, with working with the Hopi, as well
as Navajo and the Pachis, everybody in Arizona.
Leap of faith, they hired us.
And to this day, that building is still dear tomy heart.
(18:32):
It was the breakthrough we needed two yearsago.
And at the building, it was 35 years old, twoyears ago.
And we submitted it for a twenty five yearaward, an AIA twenty five year award, which is
given to buildings that have endured not onlyintact for twenty five years, not messed up,
(18:56):
you know, by remodeling or whatever, but stillintact, still original, and still serving the
same purpose that they did, which is prettyrare.
Yeah.
And so we had hit the thirty five year mark.
I think it's about time we submitted thisbuilding.
Now mind you, remember, it was our first nonhouse building.
And and we had no money left.
(19:18):
Of course, we just we just spent it all doingthe best damn job we could.
So it was never photographed.
It never got any recognition.
It was this little jewel sitting out in themiddle of the painted desert that nobody knew
about.
And so, and I started calling the park serviceand asking them, you know, and I braced myself
(19:39):
because I said, well, so how's that buildingdoing?
You know, God damn it.
It's leaking blah, blah, blah.
None of that happened.
Only just the most wonderful things were said.
In fact, the manager of all the Northern parkssaid he still considers it the best visitor
center in the whole system.
(19:59):
He said, wow.
Do you know why Eddie?
Because when I'm out, you know, traveling inmy, you know, quad, you know, just checking
things out, I can't even see the building.
You know?
It blends in so beautifully, and it's just it'sjust the exact architecture that that place
(20:20):
needed.
And it's made of rusted metal and stone.
Why the rusted metal?
It was the first time to my knowledge that anyarchitect in Arizona had just taken cold rolled
sheet metal and used it as a cladding.
You know, not core 10, nothing fancy, justbasic sheet metal.
(20:45):
And I did that because when I was I thought Iagain, a hippie.
I've got I've got to spend the night on thesite.
I've got you know, I'm happy to feel it.
And so I took my sleeping bag and, man, themosquitoes at the park drove me off, but at
(21:07):
least I, I was able to do a sincere, thoroughwalk of that site, which I frankly, I got to
pick out.
I mean, can you imagine, I mean, your firstreal job and they say, you know, we've got like
800 acres here.
Where do you think it should go?
Wow.
(21:27):
And so I got to choose the site, but anyway, tomake my point, as I was exploring it, you know,
there's pot chards and there's animal bones.
And of course there's all the high desertgrasses and most mostly dirt.
And here's this coffee can, this rustic coffeecan half buried, you know, and it was it was
(21:49):
this this man made object had been thrownthere, and mother nature was slowly dismantling
it, eating it, and taking it back.
I thought I have to use a metal material so shecan start taking it back.
And then the stone part, well, grief,everything up there is made of stone.
(22:09):
Was, you know, the indigenous Americans justlooked at what they were standing on and they
built with that.
No matter where the high plains Indians, the,you know, Southwestern, the East Coast, they
all just built with what was under their feet.
And so there, there, there wasn't a lot ofstone on our site, but the local farmers in
(22:31):
that part of Arizona, you know, would tilltheir crops and they would always dig up stone
and they would stockpile it.
So they gave it to us.
So now we have the material for free.
How do we get it onto the building?
Well, just South Of Winslow is a statepenitentiary.
And there were five incarcerated Masons thatwere more than happy to get a day off, you
(22:57):
know, to, to do your trade.
And so they laid the stone.
Beautiful.
It's poetic.
And so anyway, the building won.
It won the 25 award.
And so it finally got the recognition that itdeserved.
And I was, I could have not been more proud ofan award than that one.
(23:18):
And we've had, as you said, a lot of awards,but that one was super special.
So this this is an unbelievable inspirationalstory of how how you did this thing.
You didn't have any money still, but it wasthe, we we've done it.
We've hit the the big time, if you will.
(23:40):
You know, we've we've done something so youknow?
Well, but that's
only in retrospect.
That's only in retrospect.
At the time, you're just struggling and hopingyou're going to get a better job.
Yeah.
So I guess that that goes to the question then.
So when did when did the studio start becominglike a, oh, we've got, like, a real business
(24:02):
here.
Like, this is a real like, this can pay people.
I'll be happy to tell you.
We you know, the Mollavee's finished, and thenthere's some more houses to do.
Then the Bureau of Land Management hires us todo literally an outhouse out in the middle of
the desert
When nature calls, as they say.
(24:23):
West West Of New River.
There's there's a trail from New River toPrescott, it's called the Black Canyon Trail.
And it used to be where, you know, rancherswould herd their sheep north and it's still
used as a hiking trail today.
So, you know, hikers needed a place to parktheir vehicles in preparation for to begin the
(24:47):
hike.
It'd be nice to have some picnic tables and weneed a restroom for them.
This, and that was the job.
A restroom.
And it had to be self sufficient.
There's no electricity, no plumbing, no water,no nothing, and no maintenance.
And so we designed this and they really arebeautiful, really beautiful little structures
(25:09):
and composting toilets.
One solar collector to power things.
Clad cladden metal and concrete blockconstruction to withstand the bullet holes that
were inevitable, which to me just added to thecharacter.
It's like the patina of oxidation on the metal,along with the bullet holes.
(25:33):
It's all, it's all in it's all it's just, andthat won a lot of awards too.
But the real breakthrough came when, the St.
Louis Cardinals national football team wereasked to leave St.
Louis or they wasn't had enough of the Bidwellfamily.
And so they moved in Tempe.
(25:54):
Everybody wanted a football team.
And so Tempe, their carrot was a free trainingfacility.
If you come to Tempe, will give you thistraining facility.
Now training facilities are a big deal.
I mean, that's headquarters.
That's where all the executives are.
That's where all the coaches are.
(26:15):
That's where all the players are, the lockerrooms, the weight rooms, everything.
And so I don't know if you've ever seen it.
It's on the corner of Hardy and, Warner inTempe.
And we had never done a training facility, butNeil, you know, had that experience at Hiri.
And we were in association with an architectnamed Dave.
(26:39):
It's jumping out of my head, but he was a Tempearchitect.
That was part of the criteria.
You have to have a Tempe architect.
Kenyon, Dave Kenyon.
And so we were smart enough to hire aconsultant, a design consultant, who had been
on the architecture team for the Dallas Cowboystraining facility.
(27:03):
Unbeknownst to us, the vice president of theCardinals had been with the Dallas Cowboys
previously and really liked this guy.
So he's on our team and we're competing againstHOK, Smith Group, all these high powered firms,
and we get the job.
(27:23):
Man, when I was that satisfied.
And, you know, it was up to me to design it.
And it's like, oh man.
I mean, this was very complex programming andadjacencies and stacking.
And I mean, there's no way you can screw thisup because it's too serious.
(27:46):
And so I can remember I'm on my desk, you know,I've got the site plan and goes, okay, I
learned how to do this in school.
I'm just going to do it.
And the football fields, you know, the site wasan old alfalfa field in Tempe, Warren, Hardy.
So it was to the eye, it looked level, but itreally, because of the irrigation of the
(28:07):
alfalfa, it had a slope to it.
And by the time you put two football fields onit, your level football fields on it, it
created a five foot offset where the buildingwas going.
So I was able to site the building parallel tothe football fields, which were parallel to the
(28:30):
railroad tracks, which is why Sun Devil Stadiumis oriented the way it is.
And so the building kind of became a retainingwall resolve that five foot offset.
And if you see the building, it's a goodbuilding.
The west side is where the coaches are.
(28:51):
You would think they would want the coaches onthe East side overlooking the football fields,
but that that sounds logical, but it'sillogical.
The coaches are on the field when the playersare on the field, so the executives want to be
able to overlook the fields.
The coaches can be on the West side because theplayers won't be on the field.
So I get that.
But the thing is that it faced west in Arizona.
(29:16):
Yet, you know, these offices, corridor ofoffices wanted sunlight.
So the diagram is football fields, the upperlevel football fields, executives, support,
coaches, parking.
So I gave the coaches an exterior corridor aswell as an interior corridor linking them
(29:40):
together.
Then the entire west elevation, I needed asunscreen.
I needed to let the light in, but block theheat gain.
What could be used to do that?
And then I I was, I probably at, I can'tremember what it was called back then, but but
a construction supply place for anotherproject.
(30:04):
And I saw these terracotta fireplace chimneyflue liners.
That's it.
Fireplace chimney flue liners laidhorizontally.
And they were about sixteen, eighteen inchessquare with rounded corners and 24 inches deep.
And you could calculate the sun as it'sdropping in the western skies, that 24 inches
(30:30):
cut it off.
And just as the sun was about to penetrate the24 inches because it's parallel perpendicular,
it dropped behind South Mountain.
So I get this wall of terracotta, you know,beautiful patterning, beautiful light and
shadow.
The east side, we put glass in so everybodycould overlook the playing fields.
(30:55):
There was even a special projected space thatwas, as you entered the building, as visitors
entered the building, the focal point went intothis special memorabilia room.
It's where the all the trophies and the oldhelmets and the, you know, recognition would be
displayed.
And it had glass mullions.
(31:17):
It was all glass, but to laterally brace theglass from wind load, I had like 24 inches deep
glass mullions.
You cantilevered because when you entered,remember the football fields are chalked lines,
right?
Going horizontally.
And then the glass overlapping created thisvertical striation.
(31:39):
And so you get this super imposition of, theglass lines overlooking, overlapping the
horizontal lines, and it was just beautiful.
And right in the middle of the room was anempty display case for this for the future
Super Bowl trophy.
I thought that was a a sign of a gesture ofoptimism.
(32:03):
They did, and it was removed.
I guess if you had to walk past a a trophy thatyou didn't have, and depending on how long you
didn't have said trophy and if we hopefully runthrough history that we don't have.
Yeah.
They they were probably like
That would be a rough walk every day.
Okay.
So you you get to build this this facilityhere, and that's that's the time where, okay,
(32:27):
we we have done it.
Now we're rolling as a business.
We're It's gotta sell the math.
Made people.
We're able to do all the fun stuff.
Then?
Yeah.
It it started to mature.
Jones Studios started to mature.
We we were in a space on twelfth Street andCampbell, a building by the great modernist Al
(32:48):
Beetle.
And, we were there for thirty three years, andwe produced a lot of work.
And but as our reputation grew, so did, Isuppose public interest.
And so the Scottsdale Museum of ContemporaryArt asked Joan's studio to exhibit our work.
That's, that's a big deal.
(33:08):
Know, that's very flattering.
Right?
Although, however, we had been asked to exhibitour work before in various venues, and I knew
that it was a lot of work with very littlefeedback and a lot of work to put up, a lot of
work to take down.
Where do you store it?
And so I said, you know, I don't know.
(33:30):
So, but I was still obligated to tell thestudio about such an important invitation.
Fortunately, it was a Friday afternoon.
And back then, we bought lots of beer on Fridayafternoons and sat around and had fun on the
conference table.
And Jacob Bene, who's now my partner and ownsthe company, he said, well, why don't we be the
(33:54):
exhibit?
And, you know, we all laughed and chuckled anddidn't take it seriously.
But on the way home, I thought that's it.
That would be worth it.
We are the exhibit.
They'll never go for it.
They'll just they say, absolutely not.
We can't take the liability, blah blah blah,whatever.
But I pitched the idea and they didn't hesitateto say yes.
(34:18):
I mean, immediately they said yes.
And they built us an office in one of thegalleries.
And we moved in for four months.
We sublet our space back on Twelfth Street AndCampbell, and we were a living architecture
firm exhibit in that gallery.
You can imagine how unproductive it was, but itwas offset by the adjacency to people that were
(34:47):
interested in architecture.
Because if you were in that gallery, you wereinterested in architecture.
Teachers would bring school children, parentswould bring their children, college students
from other universities would come in.
It was it was just great.
Any one of us would do it again.
But during that time, there was a an RFQannounced by the federal government, by the
(35:10):
General Services Administration, asking forproposals to do a new land port of entry,
actually a modernization of an existing landport of entry called Mariposa in Nogales, five
miles west of Downtown Nogales.
And I had been hired by the GSA about a yearbefore that as a peer reviewer.
(35:35):
And I had done peer reviews on land ports ofentry in Texas.
So I kind of, you know, felt like I knewsomething about this.
And Neil, my brother, he thought this is awaste of time.
There's no way we're going to get hired forthis.
We don't have any thing remotely you could callexperience because it's commercial trucking,
(35:57):
it's private vehicle inspection, it'spedestrian processing.
I mean, it's just this huge, you know, monster.
I don't know, Neil.
I I think I know something about this.
And so because, you know, we're we'reArizonans, you know, it was easy to do research
for, you know, Nogales, Arizona and Nogales,Sonora.
(36:24):
They they used to be one it used to be onecity.
Now it's separated by this unusual, ineffectivething on the wall.
But, I wrote about it.
I wrote about how the population of Nogalesswells on weekends, you know, of tourists and
shoppers.
And then it then it recedes, you know, onSunday only only to, you know, blossom again on
(36:49):
the following weekend.
And, and the locals call that ambient Nogales.
Nogales, ambos nogales, Spanish.
And and ironically, that's where public policyis made on this ethereal sort of almost
imaginary population that's never truly exists.
(37:12):
And I just thought that was beautiful.
And so I wrote about that.
Long story short, we get shortlisted with otherfirms that have way more experience and I'm
scared.
So can I say shitless?
You can say shitless.
You're totally welcome to.
And, you know, we have to go to San Franciscofor the interviews and anyway, we practice and
(37:36):
I'm kind of feeling sick and this is gonna be adisaster.
But I walk into the conference room and one ofmy favorite architects and a friend is a guy
named Larry Scarpa.
He won the national gold medal a couple ofyears ago.
Very good architect in Santa Monica.
(37:56):
And he's sitting at the conference table as apeer reviewer.
He goes, Eddie, I really like your work.
And once he said that everything just calmeddown.
Again, we were, we were probably 11 people atthe time broke.
I mean, were out of work.
That checkbook was getting to be zero.
(38:17):
And it wasn't long after Christmas that our faxmachine kicked in and it was the letter saying
you got the job.
It's like,
oh, God.
That was 02/2007.
Of course, then January comes along, and thenit's 02/2008, and then comes along the
(38:38):
recession.
The crash.
Yeah.
The crash happened.
And here we are, a little Jones studio with thelargest construction project in Arizona, and
all of our best architects being laid off forshutting their doors.
So we cherry picked all the best architects.
And over the next eight years, you know, weproduced that 54 acre, national award winning,
(39:03):
reinvented land port of entry called Mariposa.
What an experience.
What an education.
I mean, it was trial by fire, but we did it andit was so successful.
And how do you measure success in the land portof entry?
In a way, it was easy to improve because theexisting port had been designed and built in
(39:27):
1973, and now it was 2,008.
And you can imagine how the capacity wasdesigned for a certain number of trucks.
Well, the NAFTA treaty changed all of that.
So now we're getting produce trucks from SouthAmerica, Central America, well as Mexico.
(39:50):
And Tucson is perfectly positioned for a truckto access the interstate highway system that
branches out into The United States.
And so it was overcapacity.
Customers and border protection, the tenants,were doing a gosh valiant job of keeping up
with the security protocols and the number oftrucks and people.
(40:14):
I mean, it was massive.
Our challenge, and remember, we don't have anyexperience.
Somewhere 11 people, but now we grew to 24.
We have to redesign, modernize, tear down,rebuild this lamp port of entry without ever
shutting it down.
But that's why they're so expensive.
(40:35):
But we did it.
And, and of this dust bowl that we encounteredwhen we first visited the site, the truck
fumes, I mean, because these trucks are waitingten hours.
I imagine that how much exhaust is created inten hours of trucks idling.
And then you've got the heat and there was no,there's no nature.
(40:59):
I mean, it was just all dirt and pavement,which radiated even more heat.
And so immediately we decided, you know, thisplace needs a garden.
It needs, you know, this port needs to be in agarden, which cleans the air, which absorbs the
heat, which will, know, show respect for thevisitors as well as the truckers.
(41:23):
And we literally reinvented how one approachesthe design of a land port of entry.
And it was all based on one sentence out of apoem.
The border is what connects us, not whatseparates us.
And as long as you have that positive attitudeabout this being a unifier, then you can do
(41:45):
things that you wouldn't think of if youthought it was a separator.
And so we do a garden.
We use the buildings to create the securitybarriers rather than relying on razor wire and
barbed wire.
The architecture created a compound.
And the best part though, is how do youirrigate a 54 acre garden when the little town
(42:08):
of Nogales is already has a weak water systemand it rains infrequently in South, not to
mention here.
And so we created a 1,000,000 gallonunderground water storage tank, and the first
monsoon filled that storage tank to capacity,and it's never been empty since.
(42:29):
And we have this beautiful, lush garden thatpeople enter into.
Now, I don't know if you've ever crossed aborder, but personal inspection sucks.
No matter what color you are, it sucks.
And so, but when you're entering thisinspection zone through a garden, you know, the
(42:53):
the fear, the anxiety drops, which allows theofficers, the CBP officers, their anxiety level
drops, things go smoothly.
And it does, rarely is there a confrontation.
There are seizures, of course, but but you'd besurprised how peaceful land ports of entry are
(43:16):
all up and down the southern border.
And we're on our eighth one now, so I know whatI'm talking about.
And so beware of that those 06:00 news cyclesduring election cycles because it's a lot of BS
comes out of that.
But anyway, that that one, that we really grewup on the Mariposa job, and we've never looked
(43:38):
back.
And I guess we're now getting pigeonholed inland ports of entry because like I said, we're
on our eighth one.
But they're fun.
They're because the complexity just causes youto, you know, think and the issues and the
challenges are so diverse that the only way youcan get through it is through creative thought
(44:02):
process.
You can't think conventionally.
And and then you have all interaction with theCBP officers and the GSA people.
And I mean, it's it's just tons of people, notto mention the the the sister cities.
It is so it's impactful.
It's very impactful work.
I think we make a huge difference.
(44:24):
And, that's why I get up in the morning.
Well, one thing you mentioned was Jacob, one ofthe people that came up, as as you're going
through this process.
So obviously, there's succession plan in place,and you and Neil said, hey.
We need to pass this down.
So a, why?
Why would that the decision that need to bemade, but then also Jacob and whoever what
(44:48):
other partners that are there, why why werethey the the the chosen ones, if you will?
I'm I'm glad you asked that question because itgives me an opportunity to brag about my
incredible partners, not to mention the entirestaff here at Jones Studio.
But, you know, I've I've never been one tooverthink business.
(45:11):
Years ago, gosh, I can't remember how long agoit was, but we would have him I hate to use the
word employ interviews, but we would interviewthe friends that worked at Jones Studio.
Jacob Jacob had come as an intern while he wasstill at school.
Brian came as an intern while he was still inschool.
(45:32):
And I was sort of his mentor at U of A on histhesis project.
And, and then Neil and I knew right away these,these guys were special.
And, but anyway, they had been working with usand they're one of the reasons we were doing so
well.
And Brian said first, he said, you know, I wanta title because his business card was just
(45:58):
Brian Farling, Jones Studio.
Jacob Binnie, Jones Studio.
Eddie Jones, Jones Studio.
The title?
You you want a title?
Yeah.
You know, because my friends and we're, youknow, parties, and I just, you know, would like
to be recognized as something more than just anemployee.
(46:20):
I go, gosh, I never thought of that, Brian.
Thank you for mentioning that.
Let me give that some thought.
And Jacob did the same thing.
And so Neil and I talked afterwards.
I said, Neil, you know, you and I, you know, wewe're we're gonna be getting up in the years
pretty soon.
And can you imagine, you know, that if youretire and I drop dead, you know, there there's
(46:45):
nothing They they they would have to shut thedoors.
And can you imagine dedicating half your lifeto a a a studio or company, and then the door
shut and you're 50 years old?
And I go, that just doesn't seem responsible.
It doesn't seem right.
So we should do something about that.
(47:06):
So, then I guess so he so Neil, you know, heloves to do research.
And so this word succession came There's a wordfor it.
And and we hired a consultant to help, youknow, who specialized in architecture firm
succession plans and good advice, great advice.
You know, we got an attorney, you know, andthis and that.
(47:29):
And slowly, we, you know, we sold off somestock.
You know, so they became partners.
So we have, there were four partners, Neil andI, and Brian and Jacob.
Then, you know, then recently, within the lasttwo years, you know, knew he was going to
retire this year.
(47:49):
And I thought, well, you know, I'm not gonnaretire, but, you know, I can sell my stock too
and stick around.
And and that's what we did.
And and they became the owner principles ofJones Studio.
I'm still the founding principle.
And so when I drop dead, this place will go on.
(48:12):
If they wanna change the name, they can changethe name.
I don't care.
I just want them to have a home, and they willhave a home.
Next question.
Well,
I mean, so, you know, when it when you talkabout succession, start initially, it started
with title.
Event eventually, you went through and thoughtabout, well, what happens after us?
(48:37):
Which is, I mean, being an apathetic leader, Imean, that's almost like a requirement.
Was this about legacy at all?
No.
It wasn't.
But being from Oklahoma, and my parents werepart of the greatest generation, they taught me
the saying is don't toot your own horn.
(48:59):
And I'm very uncomfortable tooting my own horn,thanks to mom and dad.
This is a legacy firm.
I mean, by sheer longevity.
I mean, you've got much larger firms inPhoenix, the Valley.
You don't have too many that are older thanJones Studio.
Smith Group and Gensler, we were here beforethey were, even though they're older firms, you
(49:24):
know, from somewhere else.
But we we were here before they were.
In fact, Gensler's here because of us.
We we partnered with them on a project on theASU campus, which gave them a foothold in the
valley.
But and then then I think because I am gonnatoot my horn now because the integrity of
(49:45):
Joan's studio, the values we have, and the factthat we've sustained those values for always
putting the architecture first, the communityfirst, people first, has a reputation, an
authentic reputation for excellence.
And that should not be squandered.
(50:08):
Brian and Jacob and everybody outside this roomin the studio is very capable of continuing and
carrying on this value system.
They wouldn't be here unless they agreed withthe value system.
They wouldn't be here if they didn't enjoygetting the tough projects.
(50:28):
We are not for everybody.
There has to be a compatibility for us to signup on this adventure called architecture.
We've only got one project in our entireportfolio that was, with a developer.
And it turned out great.
It's an excellent project, but we never gothired by a developer again.
(50:51):
And, you know, it's they have different values.
Right?
I mean, everything's business.
Everything has a profit.
You gotta make you gotta spend this much money,then you have to make at least this much money
no matter what.
And so that's just not what we do.
To answer your question, I admit that this is alegacy firm and it deserves to continue.
(51:14):
And I have no doubt that it will.
Probably even better.
They'll get better.
They'll soar even higher.
They you know, going from architect to businessowner.
Right?
Like, that's not like an overnight thing.
Very different responsibilities.
How long
maybe it's a continual thing.
How long before Jacob and Brian were ready tobe a partner and really take on the role of
(51:40):
ownership and all the responsibilities, what dothey have to go through or still going through?
Got it.
Or to trust that they could be responsibleenough?
Well, one once we especially once we sold them5% of the stock, it you could see it.
I mean, that that's it's remarkable, isn't it?
(52:03):
This this little thing that the you know, thisskin in the game, as they say, even if it's
just a little bit of skin in the game, makes ahuge difference.
I don't know.
I and I I don't think it's comes from fear offailure.
Oh my god.
I got skin in the game and I can't lose myskin.
It's like I have responsibility.
I mean, I own something, you know?
(52:25):
And I think that that was very positive.
And they immediately began to grow as leaders.
They already were, but I could see a differencein the attitude.
And so by the time, you know, Neil and I wereready to let go of ownership, they they were
(52:48):
ready.
And having said that, Neil retires, Jacob takesover the business, Brian does all the heavy
lifting with design.
I'm still doing master plans for all the portsand sometimes, you know, I'll design all the
buildings and then Brian will design all thebuildings for this port.
(53:10):
You know, it's split very well.
It's very organic split too.
It's almost like who's available.
But again, it was one thing to see theirbeautiful growth with just 5% of the company.
(53:32):
Now that they've got a 100% of the company, ohmy god.
You know, it's the same thing's happening onlyin a much larger sphere.
And I love it.
I mean, it's just something so bad everybodycan't witness what I'm witnessing.
It's, it's just thrilling and fulfilling at thesame time.
That's beautiful.
It's, it's really cool to hear the organictransition and then how you get to still have a
(53:59):
front row seat to the growth.
That's amazing, which actually puts us in agood position for our last question that we
love to ask people.
If you could go back twenty years, Eddie, whatwould you tell yourself?
What advice would you give twenty years ago,Eddie, that would you think would be impactful
for '20 02/2005,
(54:21):
Well, in a way I get to do that all the timebecause I have students, you know, that come in
and they wanna know how did you do it and whatadvice do you have?
And they are thirty, forty years, fifty yearsyounger than I am.
And so it it it gives me a a moment to reflect.
(54:45):
It's it's pretty, pretty simple.
I succeeded.
And my definition of succeeding is, did you getto have fun your entire life?
Did was it ever work?
No.
I never worked because I was having too muchfun.
Were there downtimes and hard times andfailures?
(55:05):
Yes.
But it was all part of the soup that just madelife so enriching.
And so I tell students, you know, you can't dothis for the money.
And if I were talking to a a law student, Iwould tell them the same thing.
Or a ditch digger student, you can't do it forthe money.
You have to love it.
If you love it, the money will come.
(55:27):
I promise you, the money will come.
But first, you have to love it.
And so twenty years ago, I was already livingthat advice that maybe I did verbalize in my
head.
I've always said my greatest quality wasnaivete.
I never thought what could go wrong.
(55:48):
I never learned to fear.
Looking back, it's like, oh my god, what am Ithinking?
Phew, that was a close one.
But there's a lot to be said about naivete andand curiosity and having the courage to say
yes.
Believe in yourself.
Alright.
(56:08):
Well put.
This has been a ton of fun.
Is if somebody wanted to get a hold of you, isthere a good way for them to do that?
Well, we have a website, I'm told.
Yeah.
And I guess we have all of those social mediaconnections.
Kirsten will be happy to share those with you.
I'll put all Our those in your address iseasily accessible and our door is always open
(56:34):
and I never say no to a young person that wantsto talk.
Most young people are wanting a job, but youknow, we can't hire everybody.
But but I say, but nevertheless, if you wannacome in and talk about my favorite subject
architecture, let's do it.
Alright.
(56:54):
Like I said, I'll throw website and all yoursocials in the show notes there.
This has been a ton of fun.
Yes, is.
Thank you.
I've been very inspired.
I think about just say yes to things, you know,be be silly enough to say yes to things maybe
from time to time and great things will happen.
Like I said, this has been a blast.
And until next time, listeners.
(57:14):
Adios.
Adios.
Thanks for listening to Building Scale.
To help us reach even more people, please sharethis episode with a friend, colleague, or on
social media.
Remember, the three pillars of scaling abusiness are people, process, and technology.
And our mission is to help the AEC industryprotect itself by making technology easy.
(57:38):
So if you think your company's technologypillar could use some improvement, book a call
with us to see how we can help maximize your ITcybersecurity strategy.
Just go to buildingscale.net/help.
And until next time.
Keep building scale.
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