December 16, 2025 • 39 mins
Megan Lopp discusses the evolution of Green Couch Design, detailing its journey and the origin of its unique name. She shares early challenges faced and the decision to launch the business while balancing family life. The episode explores Kale's architecture career and Green Couch Design's expansion, emphasizing team building and fostering a collaborative culture with remote work. Megan highlights growth in projects, including a notable story about a Montana brewery. She outlines the company's vision, future goals, and their contractor-friendly approach. Listeners are invited to visit Oklahoma City, with contact information provided for further engagement.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
We're just we're just we're just gettingstarted.
(00:02):
Just getting our feet under us.
And, yeah, we started to really, go after somebigger commercial projects.
We've been able to, win some trouble work whenit we've we've been able to win some other RFP,
bigger city civic projects that have reallygiven us the the groundwork to plan to grow.
(00:23):
We we still do residential.
We love working with custom home projects and,like, digging into the weeds with those one on
one clients.
But, ultimately, by, getting those, you know,two, three year contracts where, you know, it
just has allowed us to hire a team, get peopleunder us.
And now that we've done it, as everyone says,you're like, I'll never go back.
(00:45):
It's just it's been not not just for theflexibility of our team, but also to really
have people to share the load with to walkbeside you and grow this thing together for for
people to get behind the vision and
Hey, everybody.
Welcome back to another episode of buildingscale, specifically the building connection
(01:06):
series where I get to connect with people thatI meet in either my everyday life or
connections through other connections of otherconnections of other connections.
And this one is one of my Oklahoma connections,which is, starting to starting to get to know a
lot of people in Oklahoma even though I've onlydriven through that state.
I'll have to go take a pilgrimage, out there toto meet all my, friends that I've I've now made
(01:29):
in the industry.
But today's guest, her her name is Lobb.
She's the CEO CEO and cofounder of Green CouchDesign.
Her and her husband had this crazy idea, like,hey.
Let's be entrepreneurs.
And from there, it was like, let's you know,we're just trying to do anything.
And, like, there was a component where it waslike, we're making jewelry out of cement and
(01:51):
then eventually full on architecture firm,which is what they are now, and a whole bunch
of things in between there, just to keepdriving and driving towards that
entrepreneurial dream, which, they've they'vemade a reality, and they run a a really nice
business now, that it does both commercial aswell as residential things and have even
crossed state lines, which is also a a reallywild thing.
(02:14):
So not just in Oklahoma now, also doingprojects outside of their their home state,
which is fun.
She's just a a spitball of fire and fun and andtells awesome stories, which I love, and is
just trying to be an impactful human being, notonly to her company and and what they're
building, but also to other entrepreneurs,which I love in in the communities around her.
(02:38):
So, this was a a fun episode, and, shout out tothe to the Oklahoma crew that I'll I'll have to
come see y'all.
Yep.
So enjoy.
So, Meaghan, one thing that maybe I didn't askyou, maybe I just totally forgot, what is Green
Couch?
Why that name?
Where I mean, is it literally you just really,really like Green couches?
(03:00):
Or is it how is what was that thought process?
Well, everyone's thinking like, oh, is it afancy couch, you know, we've spent all this
money on?
And the truth is is it it was a a crappycollege couch that my husband got for free.
That's awesome.
You know, that you almost don't wanna know thebackstories too.
So, but it was free.
(03:21):
We got
It's dark history.
There's a lot of history
That's right.
In the couch.
And when we literally, it's when we met the thegreen couch, we while we were engaged, it was
kinda where we, like, dreamed up our lifetogether and and what we wanted life to be.
And, and we always, from the beginning, wantedto build a business, wanted to do something
that was collaborative.
He had a dad that was an entrepreneur.
(03:43):
And but I and I say that, I think he saw theups and the downs of all of all of that too.
So it wasn't like a big fancy, like, oh, wewant but the freedom that came with that with
home and life, family balance was reallyimportant to us.
So we were always like, oh, yeah.
Let's, you know, have this dream.
So we were literally, the the day we met, wejoked about starting a design firm together.
(04:05):
I think at the time, it was like, is that gonnabe like my background is in graphic design and
marketing, so it was like, is this gonna isthis gonna be this?
Is this gonna be that?
Just trying to figure out all these things.
So the green couch became the launching pad forkind of defining what what we wanted our life
to be, the business, the life, all those thingsbefore we got married.
(04:26):
So when we came full circle to establishingGreen Couch, it was just like, Kill was like,
we're not doing alphabet soup, you know?
And and Lop and like, Lop's our last name.
So it's not, I don't know.
It's just pretty pretty simple.
Not anything, like, So we were like, we're notdoing Lop and Lop, you know, firm or whatever.
He's like, so we and it honestly, it was kindaone of things that I was like, I don't know if
(04:48):
I like it.
Does it sound, you know, professional?
And I do think that sometimes, you know, we canoverthink it and it is like, okay, pick a name
and run and go and, and establish the brandaround that.
So I do think we can get in the weeds too muchand overthink it.
So, yeah.
Got it.
I love that there was an actual green couch.
That's what it it would have been verydisappointing if you were like, I don't know.
(05:10):
We just randomly grabbed a name.
Would have like, oh, such a
green couch.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No.
There there Yeah.
Is
Yeah.
So so tell me, let's talk about a little bitmore about that origin story.
So you hey.
We're on this green couch.
We wanna start our design firm.
We wanna do this thing.
Yeah.
We got no idea what generally that means, and,there's lots of variants of that.
(05:33):
So where where did it start?
And and and then how's it going?
So we got married in o eight, and and then andwe both worked professionally in Oklahoma City
for different firms.
I was working at a branding agency at the time,and, it was really cool because we got to be a
part of some of the branding for downtown.
(05:54):
You know, there was Bricktown, which is kindawhat everybody knows, Oklahoma City, but there
was these other areas starting to develop.
So I got to be a part and see even some of theprerenderings of, you know, these amazing
districts, the Boathouse District.
Like, Rand Elliott was, like, designing this,like, amazing architecture that now is
definitely on the world stage and and isbringing the Olympics to Oklahoma City.
(06:16):
It's it's insane for for river sports.
Like, you know, you wouldn't think OklahomaCity would be known for that.
But, yeah, kayaking, rowing, all these things,it's it's amazing.
So to be a part of the excitement of all thatwas was really, really cool.
And then Kale, at the time, my husband wasworking at an architecture firm, and we both,
you know, we're married.
We're we're the young guns, the interns,working our way up, you know, all the things.
(06:40):
So but ultimately, in 2010, he ended up gettinglaid off.
And so we literally earlier that week, we werewe had been like we'd met, and I was kinda
like, okay.
What are we are we we need to draw a line inthe sand.
You know, we've kind of been like doing our ownthing, but just trying to figure out like, do
we jump?
Do what what does this look like?
I think as a husband and wife too, we're tryingto figure out like, I was pushing to build
(07:04):
something in architecture and design.
He's like, let's not let's well, I don't wannamess with code, like graphic design.
You don't have to do any of this, like code orwhatever.
Like, you know?
And even back then, he was already strugglingwith architecture a little bit because he's
very function first in how he designs and,like, working as a team and all the stuff and
and seeing not AI at the time, but seeing someof what was happening in, code was code was
(07:30):
dictating so much of design in in specificindustries that at times, it's like, what you
know, are we really getting to do have fun?
And so he you know, we're both just trying tofigure out, like, where we wanted to be and how
all that works.
So, but literally I was like, let's we met forlunch.
I was like, we need draw a line in the sand.
And this was in October and I'm thinking likethe first of the year, I'm gonna quit my job.
(07:55):
He's gonna keep working because he was notlicensed at the time.
And so, literally that was a Tuesday.
Thursday, he comes home and he's like, I gotlaid off today.
We're like, all right, I guess off we go.
Like, we're supposed to start this thing.
And we kind of, when we drew that line in thesand, was like, unless there's another plan,
like this was our plan, you know?
(08:17):
And so obviously felt like there was adifferent plan.
And so we quickly pivoted and lived off of mylittle salary, you know, while he was trying to
figure out Green Couch Design.
And at the point of that, we were literallylike he was blogging and we're selling stuff on
Etsy.
He literally we lived in a little farmhousethat was family owned and we got, like, a
(08:40):
really great deal renting there.
But, you know, we had no central heat and air.
Like, it was old.
It was not a cute
farmhouse.
And so
Was it what you see on TV where it's like, oh,this is such a charming
little farmhouse?
Before.
Yeah.
Both.
We were just living in the before.
We're living in the before.
When you see it on TV, we were in the before.
(09:01):
Right.
Yes.
And I I I say all that.
I am super grateful for the opportunity becausewe got to live next to door to his, like, 90
year old great grandma.
Like, it was hilarious.
She she was just awesome old lady, like,surprise survived the great depression, like,
all these things.
So, you know, we're moving in, and she'd bringus, like, literally, like, a carpet scrap.
(09:24):
You know, it's like, I got you this rug foryour house.
And you're like, oh, thanks.
Right.
You know?
But she's kept
it literally for years.
So but the being in that house really liketaught me to just be present to like, if we
can't host the party here, having the next bigthing is not gonna get us there.
(09:44):
And so it's like, how do we enjoy life here?
Have friends over.
You know, we're trying to, like, build a firmor build something.
And, like, how do we do that in a way thatwe're proud of, but also, like, not hide the
fact that we're, like, literally walking to themailbox, like, praying for checks in the mail.
You know?
Like Yeah.
Going through that whole season.
(10:05):
So, anyways, Kale literally backing up was,like, walking around.
We had no savings.
We had no plan.
Don't I don't recommend this.
And we had he found a bag of concrete.
You know, he's like, okay.
Free concrete.
What can I make out of that?
And we started fast forward, we we started, itkind of inspired just concrete, this concrete,
(10:25):
that concrete pots, blah blah blah, and itturned into concrete jewelry.
We started selling concrete jewelry, andselling around town, around Oklahoma City at
several shops, which has been really neat to bea part of the these shop stories that are still
around today, of friends that we're stillconnected with, amazing people, and to see
their journey of ten, fifteen years of growthand development has been amazing.
(10:49):
And another, like, side thing of that was also,like, seeing these shop owners were a part of
these districts that were growing, you know?
Yeah.
And so here we are today seeing these districtsthat are now, oh, that's the Plaza District.
That's this district.
Like, oh, the everybody knows these things.
But to see the inceptions of those thingsstarting to happen and the people that were a
(11:10):
part of those conversations was really, reallycool.
So, yeah, jumped from you know, got to thepoint where literally we had shop owners.
We were selling in some shops in Kansas Cityand like Wichita, Kansas, like kind of Midwest
area and trying to kind of getting to the pointlike, oh, should we, know, people are pushing
(11:31):
us to go to market in like Las Vegas.
And we're like, we
I can't like, Kel's, like, out in the backshop, like, making like, mixing some things and
making this.
And, I mean, it it was it we were getting topoint where it was like, okay.
Either we need to go all in and really figurethis out and figure out our margins and figure
out the quality that we want to carry outthrough all these price, you know, pieces, or
(11:56):
we need to step back and, you know, just figureout what we want.
And I think Kale was like, I didn't sign up tobe this maker guy in the in the garage.
And we all know with entrepreneurship, there'sthere's there's a grind involved that, like, I
don't think you can get away from.
So I think just realizing, is this where wewanna do that grind?
(12:18):
Like, I I think we were like, we could dig inhere, but is this where we wanna do that or
not?
And that was a huge pivotal point for us.
So
Yeah.
Cause if you're going to commit the time that'srequired to build anything of significance, you
know, have to minimally generally want to do
(12:40):
the thing.
Like now again, work.
There's lots of aspects of business that suckand you don't want to do.
But if the final product isn't like the dreamand it's like, oh, I love this thing.
That's hard.
That makes it so much harder on you.
Talk about, people with per, you know, beingpurposeful, right?
Like, so when you're purposeful, it's likewhatever you're doing, if it's something that
you feel connected to, it makes it easier.
(13:02):
Like, even if it's really hard, it makes iteasier compared to doing a thing that you're
like, I don't care about this at all.
Yeah.
It's almost like, oh yeah, I just, you know,it's a way to make money and that's fine.
But like, I'm not interested in like, you know,devoting eighty hours a week to this thing.
Right.
Yes.
And I, and it was hard.
I mean, we were, you know, we had our friendsthat were these amazing artists were jumping
(13:27):
from their life.
Screw this creative entrepreneurship.
I can't do it.
I'm, you know, jumping corporate.
And we were jumping from corporate to like,we'll we're going to be artists, you know, and,
and just trying to figure out how all of thatworked.
And, yeah, we we we did the products for reallyabout four years selling on Etsy, selling on
(13:48):
this, trying to to figure find our place.
And there was two years there where we wereboth full time green couch at home.
And, yeah, just and then we started havingkids.
So there was, like, a lot happening in thatseason.
Love it.
We had three kids, three boys under five years.
And so it was it was there
was a lot That's a two jobs right there.
(14:10):
Good Lord.
Yes.
So it it was, you know, trying to figure out.
And again, I think being a husband and wifeteam too, like, there were times where, you
know, it's like, oh, I thought we were in thesame car.
I thought we were going the same direction.
We're actually in two different cars going twodifferent directions with our dreams and our
goals and our vision and having to and, youknow, you start down a path of entrepreneurship
(14:32):
and, like, you both have to be happy to anextent in in that direction and where you're
going.
And so I think we had a lot of moments where wehad to, like, pull back, ask questions, figure
it out.
But it it it was it it was hard, I would say.
So While while I was staying home with thekids, Kale had got an opportunity to go back
(14:53):
into architecture, and that was a huge turningpoint for us was like, hey, we really feel like
we need to finish what we started.
He needed to finish what he started and and goget his license.
So an opportunity came back for him to work ata firm.
He jumped into that and, was doing great.
Loved it.
And then from there, he went, basically kindagot poached from a construction company and
(15:16):
commercial construction company.
And, you know, when I think, especially inarchitecture, it's like, you're supposed to die
on this hill for, you know, architecture'ssake.
Like, we're we're supposed to be artists forartists' sake, you know?
And you're like, but I can make a lot moremoney over there.
And I think Kale was definitely
three kids.
Art ain't paying the bills for the three kidshere.
(15:36):
Yes.
Yes.
It and just realizing, like, yeah, the momentumwe can get by going and getting these different
experiences was was Mhmm.
Was really, we were just seeing the value ofthat.
We always joked, like, with, you know, heneeded to be like a master builder, and then
the Lego movie came out and Oh, yeah.
When but he he grew up farming.
(15:59):
He grew up really having a desire forunderstanding how things are actually built.
And so when this opportunity came up too, itwas like, man, even if I go back into
architecture, how much better?
Yes.
Yes.
When he got his, his architectural license, wehad a everything is awesome, Lego adult
(16:19):
building party.
That's awesome.
I love It
awesome.
So, but,
Okay.
So, so we get all the experience.
We get all these things going, and then youcome back to green couch or he comes back to
green couch and say, okay, we're, we are nolonger just the, the maker.
We are gonna be a full design stoop.
(16:39):
Right?
Like a okay.
I
think as a every it's like, we gotta pick alane and we gotta start making money.
Yep.
Otherwise, what's, you know, otherwise, it'sjust a hobby that we do on the side.
So, yeah, I think in 2017, we started to, wegot a couple of, like, smaller commercial
projects and things started to kind of, okay,like, find a little bit momentum.
(17:04):
By then, Kell was work, like almost had hislicense.
So we're, he, we're feeling a lot moreconfident taking on some bigger projects with
those bigger projects come liability.
So, and then really 2020, as everythingshutting down, at that time, Kelly was working
for a developer.
And I was still at home with the kids, butstill trying to, like, grow green couch on the
(17:28):
side and, like, kinda figure out, like, tryingto go get clients.
And so 2020 happened and everything shut downand, you know, Kells comes home and comes works
works from home slash, hey, we've got, youknow, four weeks maybe of of pay work from
home, like, instead of we can sit back andenjoy it or or let's push on the gas and see
(17:52):
where this goes.
And at the time he was working for a localdeveloper, so there wasn't competition.
Like, we weren't, you know, because that wasthe other thing with like working for different
firms and different stuff, trying to find howdo we grow this on the side, and do it in a way
that we feel good about, that we don't feellike we're hiding a whole another firm over
here that we're trying to grow.
(18:13):
So, when 2020 happened, we started getting moresmaller residential projects, just like little
additions, little kitchen, bath, you know,kitchen, dining, living room, remodels, that
sort of thing.
And so things really started to grow.
And I would say from 2017 to today, things haveliterally, like, doubled every year.
(18:33):
It's just been, like, double, double, double,double.
And, from '20 to '22, is where Kel and I kindalooked at each other.
We're like, alright.
We gotta we're getting tired.
We we've been trying to figure this thing outand just realizing, like, we've got again,
kinda have to draw a line in the sand and belike, okay.
What is our timeline?
Like, when when are we willing to keep going?
(18:55):
And and when are we gonna be like, okay.
We're we're just gonna, like, take the nine tofive and enjoy life and and go from there.
So that's when literally we decided because Iwas I was homeschooling the kids at the time,
and I was like, hey, if the kids can go toschool, I can, you know, I can be full time.
(19:15):
And basically, like I was handling all theclients.
I was handling like all the communication.
And so Kale would work his nine to five job andthen go get dinner and then come back to the
office because everybody had left.
And from like six to 10:00 at night, I'd belike, here's your here's your project load.
Here's what, you know, I need you to do today.
And, we did that for almost two years and itwas a slog and it was really hard.
(19:41):
But we yeah.
In '22, was able to jump both jump, to fulltime GreenCouch.
So, and just continue to grow and build off ofI think a big part of our work and what we've
tried to do is, like, we're going about it asbeing a team, working with contractors, like,
how do we work together?
(20:01):
We're definitely not trying to come in, sayingwe we know everything.
We're the architect architecture firm.
You know?
It's like, hey.
How do we get how do we we wanna land thisplane.
We wanna land it all together as the client,the contractor, and the architecture firm.
And how do we do that, collaboratively?
And that's where we find a lot of our joys isin building those relationships that you wanna
(20:22):
work with over and over and over again.
And, yeah, it's just been and and just puttingour heads down, being in our own lane and doing
the work.
And then, I had something else I was gonna say.
I totally forgot.
It'll come back to me.
But worries.
So
so '22, you both are there.
Then you gotta build a team.
(20:43):
Right?
Assume.
Right?
Yes.
Like, you have to hey.
Because, like, we can't do this all alonebetter together, which I love.
Right?
Yes.
So what what did that look like?
What did building the team or getting anoffice?
What like what are all
those like?
We were just like, oh, shoot.
We thought, oh, it'll just be the two of us.
We'll be small.
Like and then we're like, oh, if we ever wannago on vacation at the same time, we we don't
(21:05):
wanna come back to a total shit show.
Yep.
And yeah, so just realizing, oh, shoot.
You know, 2022 kill, you know, jumps off intofull time.
We're like, we made it.
And then you realize, oh god.
We're just we're just we're just gettingstarted.
Just getting our feet under us.
And, yeah, we started to really go after somebigger commercial projects.
(21:27):
We've been able to, win some travel work whenit we've we've been able to win some other RFP,
bigger city civic projects that have reallygiven us the the groundwork to plan to grow.
We we still do residential.
We love working with custom home, projects and,like, digging into the weeds with those one on
(21:49):
one clients.
But, ultimately, by, getting those, you know,two, three year contracts where, you know, it
just has allowed us to hire a team, get peopleunder us.
And now that we've done it, as everyone says,you're like, I'll never go back.
It's just it's been not not just for theflexibility of our team, but also to really
(22:11):
have people to share the load with to walkbeside you and grow this thing together for for
people to get behind the vision.
And, you know, Kell and I have worked fordifferent firms, different experiences.
And I think there's been a lot of firms thatmeant well, but you know, their idea of like
family friendly was like, yeah, as long as you,you know, your wife brings you dinner and the
(22:34):
kids can come up and see you, but you know,they gotta like go go on.
You know?
Like, but you stay as long as you want, youknow?
That's their definition of family friendly orand like I said, I think culturally, when you
look at the last fifteen years, I think thatthat was a big shift compared to what was even
before.
(22:54):
Mhmm.
But I think, a big part of what we're trying tobuild with our team is flexibility, and
schedule.
So we work remote three days a week.
So we're in office twice a week.
And then, you know, it's like, hey.
You have a desk here if you need it.
But otherwise, you know, as long as you'regetting your work done, you're staying on top
(23:15):
of your workload, we're we're good.
We we do meet a lot on Google Meets and stufflike that.
So that's been super beneficial, but reallytrying to figure out how do we build
architecture, an architecture firm that givesflexibility.
And it's not always easy.
Like, there's definitely times where I mean,even Kel and I sometimes, you know, our team
(23:37):
we've had a couple one girl literally went toBali in Thailand for, like, three weeks.
Another one is in Europe right now.
And, you know, Kel was like, we we gotta letyou know, like, let's let him go.
It's it like, you know, this is what we'retrying to build is different.
And I'm like, I
don't know.
You know?
Trying to
be like, how's this gonna work?
But some of it, we have to try differentthings.
(23:58):
Otherwise, we're just gonna keep repeating thesame thing that we feel comfortable with that
we have seen done before.
And, that's been a huge part of, it's like sameas growing a business.
It's like you almost wanna fail fast.
Mhmm.
So the versus never make decisions and then youdon't actually grow anything.
So
(24:19):
Yeah.
No.
I completely agree.
Because, Essentially, business, innovation,like growth, it's all just failing at stuff
effectively and then eventually finding, oh, Ididn't fail at this way, so let's go do it that
way.
Right.
And if you can do that faster, obviously, thenyou can get to the the goal faster.
Right?
That's that's essentially it.
(24:40):
I Yes.
I I think, certainly, talking to leaders allthe time, they get this.
But people that aren't, owners specifically, Ifeel like that's lost on them of, like, yeah.
It's just it's literally just about, like, canI withstand the failure that is gonna
inherently happen across the board?
Because I've never met a leader that, like, oh,yeah.
(25:01):
Everything just went perfect.
It was, like, I got an idea.
I pitched the idea.
People just kept knocking on my door to getmore of it.
Like, I've never heard that story.
And if if you're listening and that's yourstory,
I'd love to talk to you
because you've been Send me that episode.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You've you've found the horseshoe or the LuckyCharms or whatever it is.
So okay.
So you got you got the team in place.
(25:23):
Also, culturally, you know, letting somebody goYes.
Literally across the world for a extendedperiod of time
Mhmm.
Is not generally the easiest thing.
Mhmm.
But willing to try.
Right?
Which is a it's a cool thing.
So what else?
So are you so obviously, did do stuff inOklahoma City, but are you now breaking state
lines?
Or what does that look like?
What's what's growth in in project wise looklike?
(25:45):
Yeah.
So, I mean, the travel work has been reallyamazing to just get to again, with my
background in branding and marketing too, it'slike, what is the deeper story we're trying to
tell, and how do we do that in space and designand and and create that whole experience is is
so cool, the idea of place making.
And, we're working on a a travel center rightnow, that's gonna be for Seminole Nation.
(26:09):
So that's just been really neat to, you know,hear their story, get into the dig into the
weeds a bit more, and get to, figure out how dowe create a sense of place.
You know?
Like, literally, this building that that isgonna be built is is, in a sense, kind of in
the middle of nowhere.
So it's like we're it it's in town, but there'sstill not, you know, a ton there.
(26:30):
And so it's like this could become a a centeris going to become a center, a place for the
community, for, yeah.
Like, it's it's just been really neat to be apart of that story.
And so are the kind of projects that we getreally excited about.
We have our we have our first out of state sitevisit we're gonna take our whole team to.
(26:51):
This is a project we're super excited about inMontana.
This is, again, like, really cool story.
This couple, they bought this old brewery, andit's in downtown, Kalispell, Montana.
And, you know, kind of they dabbled into allthese different entrepreneurial things.
Their story is amazing too in itself, but, kindof have found, you know, things that are
(27:16):
working taking off.
And so, they're turning the top floor into aresidential space, and then the bottom is gonna
be commercial and leased out.
And so it's been, again, really cool to be apart of their story, to help them navigate all
the, you know, budget swings can go come reallyhard and fast in projects like that.
(27:36):
And so to help, you know, people, everydaypeople that are just trying to, like, have this
big vision and a dream and trying to, like,figure out what it's gonna take to actually get
this off the ground.
Those are really exciting things for us.
And and the stories there, again, it's like weget to be a part of this new chapter for that
building, this community, for what this coupleis building.
(27:59):
It's it's really cool to be a part of that kindof place making.
So
That's awesome.
Similar, story to y'all.
If they dabbled in a bunch of differententrepreneurship Yes.
Finding finding the right path, which is cool.
That's, it kind of bring brings it full circlethere.
So alright.
So then all that stuff is happening.
(28:19):
What what, what, what's the vision here?
Right?
So now that you are, I'm going to say, youknow, officially a proven business, like you
are no question Y'all about y'all are realdeal.
You're, you are a firm.
There's no question.
So now what's the horizon?
Like, what's what's the next?
It is it's a really exciting season to I mean,honestly, to and it's very humbling to be like,
(28:44):
oh my gosh.
We've really hit kind of our goals, at least,you know, when we were like the little young
ones trying to figure it out.
And now it's like, okay.
What do we want?
I think, you know, your first response is growbigger, bigger, more, more, more.
And I I think we're really trying to not just,you know we have doubled every year since 2017,
(29:06):
which is super exciting.
We hit seven figures this year.
We're, like, rocking and rolling, and and Idon't see that just slowing down.
But and super humbled and excited about that.
But I think, yeah, how do we we've always, fromthe beginning, tried to build a firm that what
what do we say?
(29:26):
It's like, we're not building a firm.
We're growing a firm.
Like, we're not just, you know, trying to,like, build something in two years and and and
kinda take our hands off.
It's like we're growing something withintention.
We want people to love working here, and wewanna do projects that that mean something.
And sometimes sometimes that's not always, youknow, the most luxurious project or, you know,
(29:48):
but it's it's the most needed right now in thecommunity.
And that can be just as meaningful andimpactful.
And so I think being excited about what whatare the stories happening in Oklahoma City in
these, communities, and how do we get to be apart of telling those, whether that's through
volunteering, through architecture, throughdesign, through just, yeah, like our business
(30:09):
supporting another business.
I mean, that's been the coolest part, like withthis other couple is, and one of my favorite
parts is like, well, you get to meet theseother entrepreneurs that are, you know, like
Kell and I were fifteen years ago, trying to,you know, go off a hope and a prayer.
And hopefully they have a business plan andsomewhat of a because some people you're like,
(30:30):
wait, how many cups of coffee do you need tosell in an hour or a month?
And it's like, they don't know.
And I'm like, y'all already signed
a lease.
Like, like, let's let's have
a plan, guys.
So there's been but it's it being getting to bea part of those stories and helping those
(30:50):
entrepreneurs, even if it's just, you know, apermit set getting you through the city and
sending you on your way, it it's still reallycool to to be be a part of those young
entrepreneurs and developers and seeing whatthey're wanting to go do.
So Yeah.
That's that's fun.
That's, like I said, that full circle feelingis, I don't know, that, that to me is where,
(31:15):
business gets more and more fulfilling when youcan help somebody else where you were, you
know, in the past.
That's, I don't know.
And literally when we started the podcast, itwas literally, Hey, how can we just help other
people not fall into the same pitfalls or likenot pay the same entrepreneurial tax that you
had to pay?
Because if you could just help somebody just alittle bit, man, that's that's so, so, so
(31:37):
fulfilling.
I feel that definitely from you, even just withthe podcast, because I know you don't you don't
get paid the big bucks to to do this, but youobviously love telling stories and love
bringing people into this conversation, andthat's really cool.
And I see with the growth of our team, witheverything we're trying to do, it's just been
(31:59):
really, really cool to, yeah, be be a part ofthis bigger community that's growing in
Oklahoma City with design and architecture.
And Yeah.
It it's just been really, really rewarding.
I was thinking about what was it?
Sorry.
My brain's going into, like, five differentdirections, but it'll come back to
(32:22):
you had mentioned being, essentially contractorfriendly.
Yeah.
I'll put it that way.
What Mhmm.
What does that look like compared to what andI'm and I'm not I don't wanna label all
architecture firms certainly Yeah.
Being more difficult for a contractor, but whatis essentially seen as that contractor
(32:43):
architect relationship and how it traditionallyhas worked and how y'all are trying to make
that a little bit different?
Well, I think, again, like coming at a projectas a team versus, like, coming in combative
and, like, we're always right and you're alwayswrong.
Coming in at it as, you know, like, how do wewe're trying to do something different.
(33:06):
And so how do like, in it let's say, in a acertain detail.
And so it's like, instead of getting frustratedat the contractor because they're not figuring
it out or it's not being done right, like, dowe have conversations early on to support that
contractor?
So and so versus them saying like, well, Idon't know how to do this, you know, or who's
the subs that are gonna do this?
(33:27):
It's like, hey.
Here's three people we've already talked tothat could, you know, execute this and kind of
how do we get into the weeds with them so thatwe can create something different, unique, and
special, and we do it together as a team.
And and also, like, they're the ones having tosource pricing.
And, you know, when when it comes to actually,like, in the moment, getting that material here
(33:48):
on time and and executing that, you know, theconstruction of it, how do we help, you know,
again, whether that's getting vendorsrecommending vendors, bringing those
relationships to the table, How how can we helphave those conversations?
And so we're not holding on to the design sotightly.
This, like, if they can bring a differentmaterial we don't know about, like, let's talk
(34:10):
about that.
You know?
But, like, let's
Yeah.
Do that collaboratively, and let's do thatearly on so that we haven't shown this the
client this, like, great, beautiful, bigpicture, and then the contractor's stuck having
to execute this, like, dream, or they're theone having to constantly, like, chop it down.
That's not that's not a win for us.
Like, the client's not happy.
You know, the contractor's frustrated.
(34:31):
So how how do we all I for us, that's bringingthe contractor in early, getting that pricing
base even square foot pricing early on as muchas much information as we can up on the on the
front end, and then kind of letting the designfollow that a little bit more versus, like, us
just going with this big pretty picture, whichis fun to do.
(34:54):
But but to us, like, a successful project ishow do we actually land the plane in the end,
and can we do that all successfully where we'reeverybody feels good.
You you keep that momentum of excitement fromfrom the design, which is the fun, like,
fluttery stuff, to actual, like, execution.
How do we keep that excitement up throughoutthe whole project?
(35:16):
So that's been a big part of our process is howdo we you know, for us, that looks like
building relationships with contractors thatwant to want that kind of relationship, that
are willing to get in the weeds with us alittle bit, and and then the clients that
appreciate that sort of transparency from thefrom the beginning.
So and I mean, I I do a twenty minute call,discovery call on our website.
(35:40):
People can book it.
And as we grow, I don't know if that'ssomething I'll be able to do forever and ever
and always, but I like you're talking about, Ijust wanna be a resource for people.
And Yep.
I do believe that work's gonna come back to us.
And so even if right now and a lot of peopleare like, I couldn't even get an architect firm
to call me back or talk to me or you know?
(36:00):
And so it's like, how do we, come full circleand, like, start from the very beginning?
Like, I just wanna be a resource for yourproject.
And if if if we're not the best fit, like, howcan I point you in the right direction?
So
Oh, yeah.
That so few things.
One, give to give.
Love that.
You just I'm giving to give.
And, you know, I'll I'll let the universe shakeout that in, in the long run there.
(36:22):
That's certainly an attitude I have in life.
Yeah.
But also the, the relationship betweencontractor and architect is almost like that,
visionary integrator, connection in businesswhere it's like, you can have great vision, but
if you don't actually have somebody that'sgonna do the work, do the execution component
of it, doesn't matter.
But the same goes the other way.
I'll do all the hard work, but if you don'thave a vision, then it's like, well, what are
(36:44):
you, what are you building?
And I think it's easy to get mad at the personthat's left having to execute that when we get
to be up here on the front end of theexcitement and all the stuff.
And it's like, yeah.
Again, how do we carry that excitementthroughout the whole project?
And I I I think that's having the moneyconversation as quickly as possible so that,
(37:05):
you know, we're not nobody's left in stickershock at the end or close to the end,
hopefully.
So No.
That makes tonal tonal sense.
This is awesome.
This has been great.
If somebody wanna get ahold of you, what's thebest way for them to do that?
Yes.
So we are on Instagram and Facebook.
I don't know.
Were people still on Facebook?
I think so.
I think so.
(37:25):
I
I believe it is, millennials, I think, go toFacebook.
I there are actual, you know, metrics to this,and I should probably know them better.
But I believe it's yes.
That and older millennials and older, and thenall the new generations or younger generations
are no longer Facebook users to myunderstanding.
Well, there we go.
So we're on Facebook, Instagram, and then ourwebsite, greencouchdesign.net.
(37:49):
And, yeah, would love send me an email.
Say hi.
I'm still checking all the things, and, yeah,really excited to continue to grow our team.
I was telling you, we just got a new we got anoffice.
So we've Yep.
We've been just enjoying settling in and andfinding our feet.
So super grateful to be here.
Thanks for everything.
(38:09):
It's very, very, very exciting.
I look forward to, you know, taking my pillpilgrimage to Oklahoma City and seeing you and
and the others that I've now come to to beconnected to.
So love that.
Anything else you wanna tell the people beforewe say our goodbyes?
Please come so we can host you.
And, yeah, same thing.
(38:30):
Like, if any of your listeners are ever inOklahoma City, I literally literally, we would
love to host you.
Like like you said, just having theconversation, getting to know other
entrepreneurs, people out there that are doingamazing things and that care about the work
that they're doing, yeah, would love to pleasecome to Oklahoma City.
There's amazing things happening, and we'resuper proud of the work that's happening here.
(38:51):
So
Awesome.
Well, listeners, this has been a ton of fun,and until next time, adios.
Thanks.
Thanks for listening to building scale.
To help us reach even more people, please sharethis episode with a friend, colleague, or on
social media.
Remember, the three pillars of scaling abusiness are people, process, and technology.
(39:13):
And our mission is to help the AEC industryprotect itself by making technology easy.
So if you think your company's technologypillar could use some improvement, book a call
with us to see how we can help maximize your ITcybersecurity strategy.
Just go to buildingscale.net/help.
(39:36):
And until next time.
Keep building scale.
We're just we're just we're just gettingstarted.
(00:02):
Just getting our feet under us.
And, yeah, we started to really, go after somebigger commercial projects.
We've been able to, win some trouble work whenit we've we've been able to win some other RFP,
bigger city civic projects that have reallygiven us the the groundwork to plan to grow.
(00:23):
We we still do residential.
We love working with custom home projects and,like, digging into the weeds with those one on
one clients.
But, ultimately, by, getting those, you know,two, three year contracts where, you know, it
just has allowed us to hire a team, get peopleunder us.
And now that we've done it, as everyone says,you're like, I'll never go back.
(00:45):
It's just it's been not not just for theflexibility of our team, but also to really
have people to share the load with to walkbeside you and grow this thing together for for
people to get behind the vision and
Hey, everybody.
Welcome back to another episode of buildingscale, specifically the building connection
(01:06):
series where I get to connect with people thatI meet in either my everyday life or
connections through other connections of otherconnections of other connections.
And this one is one of my Oklahoma connections,which is, starting to starting to get to know a
lot of people in Oklahoma even though I've onlydriven through that state.
I'll have to go take a pilgrimage, out there toto meet all my, friends that I've I've now made
(01:29):
in the industry.
But today's guest, her her name is Lobb.
She's the CEO CEO and cofounder of Green CouchDesign.
Her and her husband had this crazy idea, like,hey.
Let's be entrepreneurs.
And from there, it was like, let's you know,we're just trying to do anything.
And, like, there was a component where it waslike, we're making jewelry out of cement and
(01:51):
then eventually full on architecture firm,which is what they are now, and a whole bunch
of things in between there, just to keepdriving and driving towards that
entrepreneurial dream, which, they've they'vemade a reality, and they run a a really nice
business now, that it does both commercial aswell as residential things and have even
crossed state lines, which is also a a reallywild thing.
(02:14):
So not just in Oklahoma now, also doingprojects outside of their their home state,
which is fun.
She's just a a spitball of fire and fun and andtells awesome stories, which I love, and is
just trying to be an impactful human being, notonly to her company and and what they're
building, but also to other entrepreneurs,which I love in in the communities around her.
(02:38):
So, this was a a fun episode, and, shout out tothe to the Oklahoma crew that I'll I'll have to
come see y'all.
Yep.
So enjoy.
So, Meaghan, one thing that maybe I didn't askyou, maybe I just totally forgot, what is Green
Couch?
Why that name?
Where I mean, is it literally you just really,really like Green couches?
(03:00):
Or is it how is what was that thought process?
Well, everyone's thinking like, oh, is it afancy couch, you know, we've spent all this
money on?
And the truth is is it it was a a crappycollege couch that my husband got for free.
That's awesome.
You know, that you almost don't wanna know thebackstories too.
So, but it was free.
(03:21):
We got
It's dark history.
There's a lot of history
That's right.
In the couch.
And when we literally, it's when we met the thegreen couch, we while we were engaged, it was
kinda where we, like, dreamed up our lifetogether and and what we wanted life to be.
And, and we always, from the beginning, wantedto build a business, wanted to do something
that was collaborative.
He had a dad that was an entrepreneur.
(03:43):
And but I and I say that, I think he saw theups and the downs of all of all of that too.
So it wasn't like a big fancy, like, oh, wewant but the freedom that came with that with
home and life, family balance was reallyimportant to us.
So we were always like, oh, yeah.
Let's, you know, have this dream.
So we were literally, the the day we met, wejoked about starting a design firm together.
(04:05):
I think at the time, it was like, is that gonnabe like my background is in graphic design and
marketing, so it was like, is this gonna isthis gonna be this?
Is this gonna be that?
Just trying to figure out all these things.
So the green couch became the launching pad forkind of defining what what we wanted our life
to be, the business, the life, all those thingsbefore we got married.
(04:26):
So when we came full circle to establishingGreen Couch, it was just like, Kill was like,
we're not doing alphabet soup, you know?
And and Lop and like, Lop's our last name.
So it's not, I don't know.
It's just pretty pretty simple.
Not anything, like, So we were like, we're notdoing Lop and Lop, you know, firm or whatever.
He's like, so we and it honestly, it was kindaone of things that I was like, I don't know if
(04:48):
I like it.
Does it sound, you know, professional?
And I do think that sometimes, you know, we canoverthink it and it is like, okay, pick a name
and run and go and, and establish the brandaround that.
So I do think we can get in the weeds too muchand overthink it.
So, yeah.
Got it.
I love that there was an actual green couch.
That's what it it would have been verydisappointing if you were like, I don't know.
(05:10):
We just randomly grabbed a name.
Would have like, oh, such a
green couch.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No.
There there Yeah.
Is
Yeah.
So so tell me, let's talk about a little bitmore about that origin story.
So you hey.
We're on this green couch.
We wanna start our design firm.
We wanna do this thing.
Yeah.
We got no idea what generally that means, and,there's lots of variants of that.
(05:33):
So where where did it start?
And and and then how's it going?
So we got married in o eight, and and then andwe both worked professionally in Oklahoma City
for different firms.
I was working at a branding agency at the time,and, it was really cool because we got to be a
part of some of the branding for downtown.
(05:54):
You know, there was Bricktown, which is kindawhat everybody knows, Oklahoma City, but there
was these other areas starting to develop.
So I got to be a part and see even some of theprerenderings of, you know, these amazing
districts, the Boathouse District.
Like, Rand Elliott was, like, designing this,like, amazing architecture that now is
definitely on the world stage and and isbringing the Olympics to Oklahoma City.
(06:16):
It's it's insane for for river sports.
Like, you know, you wouldn't think OklahomaCity would be known for that.
But, yeah, kayaking, rowing, all these things,it's it's amazing.
So to be a part of the excitement of all thatwas was really, really cool.
And then Kale, at the time, my husband wasworking at an architecture firm, and we both,
you know, we're married.
We're we're the young guns, the interns,working our way up, you know, all the things.
(06:40):
So but ultimately, in 2010, he ended up gettinglaid off.
And so we literally earlier that week, we werewe had been like we'd met, and I was kinda
like, okay.
What are we are we we need to draw a line inthe sand.
You know, we've kind of been like doing our ownthing, but just trying to figure out like, do
we jump?
Do what what does this look like?
I think as a husband and wife too, we're tryingto figure out like, I was pushing to build
(07:04):
something in architecture and design.
He's like, let's not let's well, I don't wannamess with code, like graphic design.
You don't have to do any of this, like code orwhatever.
Like, you know?
And even back then, he was already strugglingwith architecture a little bit because he's
very function first in how he designs and,like, working as a team and all the stuff and
and seeing not AI at the time, but seeing someof what was happening in, code was code was
(07:30):
dictating so much of design in in specificindustries that at times, it's like, what you
know, are we really getting to do have fun?
And so he you know, we're both just trying tofigure out, like, where we wanted to be and how
all that works.
So, but literally I was like, let's we met forlunch.
I was like, we need draw a line in the sand.
And this was in October and I'm thinking likethe first of the year, I'm gonna quit my job.
(07:55):
He's gonna keep working because he was notlicensed at the time.
And so, literally that was a Tuesday.
Thursday, he comes home and he's like, I gotlaid off today.
We're like, all right, I guess off we go.
Like, we're supposed to start this thing.
And we kind of, when we drew that line in thesand, was like, unless there's another plan,
like this was our plan, you know?
(08:17):
And so obviously felt like there was adifferent plan.
And so we quickly pivoted and lived off of mylittle salary, you know, while he was trying to
figure out Green Couch Design.
And at the point of that, we were literallylike he was blogging and we're selling stuff on
Etsy.
He literally we lived in a little farmhousethat was family owned and we got, like, a
(08:40):
really great deal renting there.
But, you know, we had no central heat and air.
Like, it was old.
It was not a cute
farmhouse.
And so
Was it what you see on TV where it's like, oh,this is such a charming
little farmhouse?
Before.
Yeah.
Both.
We were just living in the before.
We're living in the before.
When you see it on TV, we were in the before.
(09:01):
Right.
Yes.
And I I I say all that.
I am super grateful for the opportunity becausewe got to live next to door to his, like, 90
year old great grandma.
Like, it was hilarious.
She she was just awesome old lady, like,surprise survived the great depression, like,
all these things.
So, you know, we're moving in, and she'd bringus, like, literally, like, a carpet scrap.
(09:24):
You know, it's like, I got you this rug foryour house.
And you're like, oh, thanks.
Right.
You know?
But she's kept
it literally for years.
So but the being in that house really liketaught me to just be present to like, if we
can't host the party here, having the next bigthing is not gonna get us there.
(09:44):
And so it's like, how do we enjoy life here?
Have friends over.
You know, we're trying to, like, build a firmor build something.
And, like, how do we do that in a way thatwe're proud of, but also, like, not hide the
fact that we're, like, literally walking to themailbox, like, praying for checks in the mail.
You know?
Like Yeah.
Going through that whole season.
(10:05):
So, anyways, Kale literally backing up was,like, walking around.
We had no savings.
We had no plan.
Don't I don't recommend this.
And we had he found a bag of concrete.
You know, he's like, okay.
Free concrete.
What can I make out of that?
And we started fast forward, we we started, itkind of inspired just concrete, this concrete,
(10:25):
that concrete pots, blah blah blah, and itturned into concrete jewelry.
We started selling concrete jewelry, andselling around town, around Oklahoma City at
several shops, which has been really neat to bea part of the these shop stories that are still
around today, of friends that we're stillconnected with, amazing people, and to see
their journey of ten, fifteen years of growthand development has been amazing.
(10:49):
And another, like, side thing of that was also,like, seeing these shop owners were a part of
these districts that were growing, you know?
Yeah.
And so here we are today seeing these districtsthat are now, oh, that's the Plaza District.
That's this district.
Like, oh, the everybody knows these things.
But to see the inceptions of those thingsstarting to happen and the people that were a
(11:10):
part of those conversations was really, reallycool.
So, yeah, jumped from you know, got to thepoint where literally we had shop owners.
We were selling in some shops in Kansas Cityand like Wichita, Kansas, like kind of Midwest
area and trying to kind of getting to the pointlike, oh, should we, know, people are pushing
(11:31):
us to go to market in like Las Vegas.
And we're like, we
I can't like, Kel's, like, out in the backshop, like, making like, mixing some things and
making this.
And, I mean, it it was it we were getting topoint where it was like, okay.
Either we need to go all in and really figurethis out and figure out our margins and figure
out the quality that we want to carry outthrough all these price, you know, pieces, or
(11:56):
we need to step back and, you know, just figureout what we want.
And I think Kale was like, I didn't sign up tobe this maker guy in the in the garage.
And we all know with entrepreneurship, there'sthere's there's a grind involved that, like, I
don't think you can get away from.
So I think just realizing, is this where wewanna do that grind?
(12:18):
Like, I I think we were like, we could dig inhere, but is this where we wanna do that or
not?
And that was a huge pivotal point for us.
So
Yeah.
Cause if you're going to commit the time that'srequired to build anything of significance, you
know, have to minimally generally want to do
(12:40):
the thing.
Like now again, work.
There's lots of aspects of business that suckand you don't want to do.
But if the final product isn't like the dreamand it's like, oh, I love this thing.
That's hard.
That makes it so much harder on you.
Talk about, people with per, you know, beingpurposeful, right?
Like, so when you're purposeful, it's likewhatever you're doing, if it's something that
you feel connected to, it makes it easier.
(13:02):
Like, even if it's really hard, it makes iteasier compared to doing a thing that you're
like, I don't care about this at all.
Yeah.
It's almost like, oh yeah, I just, you know,it's a way to make money and that's fine.
But like, I'm not interested in like, you know,devoting eighty hours a week to this thing.
Right.
Yes.
And I, and it was hard.
I mean, we were, you know, we had our friendsthat were these amazing artists were jumping
(13:27):
from their life.
Screw this creative entrepreneurship.
I can't do it.
I'm, you know, jumping corporate.
And we were jumping from corporate to like,we'll we're going to be artists, you know, and,
and just trying to figure out how all of thatworked.
And, yeah, we we we did the products for reallyabout four years selling on Etsy, selling on
(13:48):
this, trying to to figure find our place.
And there was two years there where we wereboth full time green couch at home.
And, yeah, just and then we started havingkids.
So there was, like, a lot happening in thatseason.
Love it.
We had three kids, three boys under five years.
And so it was it was there
was a lot That's a two jobs right there.
(14:10):
Good Lord.
Yes.
So it it was, you know, trying to figure out.
And again, I think being a husband and wifeteam too, like, there were times where, you
know, it's like, oh, I thought we were in thesame car.
I thought we were going the same direction.
We're actually in two different cars going twodifferent directions with our dreams and our
goals and our vision and having to and, youknow, you start down a path of entrepreneurship
(14:32):
and, like, you both have to be happy to anextent in in that direction and where you're
going.
And so I think we had a lot of moments where wehad to, like, pull back, ask questions, figure
it out.
But it it it was it it was hard, I would say.
So While while I was staying home with thekids, Kale had got an opportunity to go back
(14:53):
into architecture, and that was a huge turningpoint for us was like, hey, we really feel like
we need to finish what we started.
He needed to finish what he started and and goget his license.
So an opportunity came back for him to work ata firm.
He jumped into that and, was doing great.
Loved it.
And then from there, he went, basically kindagot poached from a construction company and
(15:16):
commercial construction company.
And, you know, when I think, especially inarchitecture, it's like, you're supposed to die
on this hill for, you know, architecture'ssake.
Like, we're we're supposed to be artists forartists' sake, you know?
And you're like, but I can make a lot moremoney over there.
And I think Kale was definitely
three kids.
Art ain't paying the bills for the three kidshere.
(15:36):
Yes.
Yes.
It and just realizing, like, yeah, the momentumwe can get by going and getting these different
experiences was was Mhmm.
Was really, we were just seeing the value ofthat.
We always joked, like, with, you know, heneeded to be like a master builder, and then
the Lego movie came out and Oh, yeah.
When but he he grew up farming.
(15:59):
He grew up really having a desire forunderstanding how things are actually built.
And so when this opportunity came up too, itwas like, man, even if I go back into
architecture, how much better?
Yes.
Yes.
When he got his, his architectural license, wehad a everything is awesome, Lego adult
(16:19):
building party.
That's awesome.
I love It
awesome.
So, but,
Okay.
So, so we get all the experience.
We get all these things going, and then youcome back to green couch or he comes back to
green couch and say, okay, we're, we are nolonger just the, the maker.
We are gonna be a full design stoop.
(16:39):
Right?
Like a okay.
I
think as a every it's like, we gotta pick alane and we gotta start making money.
Yep.
Otherwise, what's, you know, otherwise, it'sjust a hobby that we do on the side.
So, yeah, I think in 2017, we started to, wegot a couple of, like, smaller commercial
projects and things started to kind of, okay,like, find a little bit momentum.
(17:04):
By then, Kell was work, like almost had hislicense.
So we're, he, we're feeling a lot moreconfident taking on some bigger projects with
those bigger projects come liability.
So, and then really 2020, as everythingshutting down, at that time, Kelly was working
for a developer.
And I was still at home with the kids, butstill trying to, like, grow green couch on the
(17:28):
side and, like, kinda figure out, like, tryingto go get clients.
And so 2020 happened and everything shut downand, you know, Kells comes home and comes works
works from home slash, hey, we've got, youknow, four weeks maybe of of pay work from
home, like, instead of we can sit back andenjoy it or or let's push on the gas and see
(17:52):
where this goes.
And at the time he was working for a localdeveloper, so there wasn't competition.
Like, we weren't, you know, because that wasthe other thing with like working for different
firms and different stuff, trying to find howdo we grow this on the side, and do it in a way
that we feel good about, that we don't feellike we're hiding a whole another firm over
here that we're trying to grow.
(18:13):
So, when 2020 happened, we started getting moresmaller residential projects, just like little
additions, little kitchen, bath, you know,kitchen, dining, living room, remodels, that
sort of thing.
And so things really started to grow.
And I would say from 2017 to today, things haveliterally, like, doubled every year.
(18:33):
It's just been, like, double, double, double,double.
And, from '20 to '22, is where Kel and I kindalooked at each other.
We're like, alright.
We gotta we're getting tired.
We we've been trying to figure this thing outand just realizing, like, we've got again,
kinda have to draw a line in the sand and belike, okay.
What is our timeline?
Like, when when are we willing to keep going?
(18:55):
And and when are we gonna be like, okay.
We're we're just gonna, like, take the nine tofive and enjoy life and and go from there.
So that's when literally we decided because Iwas I was homeschooling the kids at the time,
and I was like, hey, if the kids can go toschool, I can, you know, I can be full time.
(19:15):
And basically, like I was handling all theclients.
I was handling like all the communication.
And so Kale would work his nine to five job andthen go get dinner and then come back to the
office because everybody had left.
And from like six to 10:00 at night, I'd belike, here's your here's your project load.
Here's what, you know, I need you to do today.
And, we did that for almost two years and itwas a slog and it was really hard.
(19:41):
But we yeah.
In '22, was able to jump both jump, to fulltime GreenCouch.
So, and just continue to grow and build off ofI think a big part of our work and what we've
tried to do is, like, we're going about it asbeing a team, working with contractors, like,
how do we work together?
(20:01):
We're definitely not trying to come in, sayingwe we know everything.
We're the architect architecture firm.
You know?
It's like, hey.
How do we get how do we we wanna land thisplane.
We wanna land it all together as the client,the contractor, and the architecture firm.
And how do we do that, collaboratively?
And that's where we find a lot of our joys isin building those relationships that you wanna
(20:22):
work with over and over and over again.
And, yeah, it's just been and and just puttingour heads down, being in our own lane and doing
the work.
And then, I had something else I was gonna say.
I totally forgot.
It'll come back to me.
But worries.
So
so '22, you both are there.
Then you gotta build a team.
(20:43):
Right?
Assume.
Right?
Yes.
Like, you have to hey.
Because, like, we can't do this all alonebetter together, which I love.
Right?
Yes.
So what what did that look like?
What did building the team or getting anoffice?
What like what are all
those like?
We were just like, oh, shoot.
We thought, oh, it'll just be the two of us.
We'll be small.
Like and then we're like, oh, if we ever wannago on vacation at the same time, we we don't
(21:05):
wanna come back to a total shit show.
Yep.
And yeah, so just realizing, oh, shoot.
You know, 2022 kill, you know, jumps off intofull time.
We're like, we made it.
And then you realize, oh god.
We're just we're just we're just gettingstarted.
Just getting our feet under us.
And, yeah, we started to really go after somebigger commercial projects.
(21:27):
We've been able to, win some travel work whenit we've we've been able to win some other RFP,
bigger city civic projects that have reallygiven us the the groundwork to plan to grow.
We we still do residential.
We love working with custom home, projects and,like, digging into the weeds with those one on
(21:49):
one clients.
But, ultimately, by, getting those, you know,two, three year contracts where, you know, it
just has allowed us to hire a team, get peopleunder us.
And now that we've done it, as everyone says,you're like, I'll never go back.
It's just it's been not not just for theflexibility of our team, but also to really
(22:11):
have people to share the load with to walkbeside you and grow this thing together for for
people to get behind the vision.
And, you know, Kell and I have worked fordifferent firms, different experiences.
And I think there's been a lot of firms thatmeant well, but you know, their idea of like
family friendly was like, yeah, as long as you,you know, your wife brings you dinner and the
(22:34):
kids can come up and see you, but you know,they gotta like go go on.
You know?
Like, but you stay as long as you want, youknow?
That's their definition of family friendly orand like I said, I think culturally, when you
look at the last fifteen years, I think thatthat was a big shift compared to what was even
before.
(22:54):
Mhmm.
But I think, a big part of what we're trying tobuild with our team is flexibility, and
schedule.
So we work remote three days a week.
So we're in office twice a week.
And then, you know, it's like, hey.
You have a desk here if you need it.
But otherwise, you know, as long as you'regetting your work done, you're staying on top
(23:15):
of your workload, we're we're good.
We we do meet a lot on Google Meets and stufflike that.
So that's been super beneficial, but reallytrying to figure out how do we build
architecture, an architecture firm that givesflexibility.
And it's not always easy.
Like, there's definitely times where I mean,even Kel and I sometimes, you know, our team
(23:37):
we've had a couple one girl literally went toBali in Thailand for, like, three weeks.
Another one is in Europe right now.
And, you know, Kel was like, we we gotta letyou know, like, let's let him go.
It's it like, you know, this is what we'retrying to build is different.
And I'm like, I
don't know.
You know?
Trying to
be like, how's this gonna work?
But some of it, we have to try differentthings.
(23:58):
Otherwise, we're just gonna keep repeating thesame thing that we feel comfortable with that
we have seen done before.
And, that's been a huge part of, it's like sameas growing a business.
It's like you almost wanna fail fast.
Mhmm.
So the versus never make decisions and then youdon't actually grow anything.
So
(24:19):
Yeah.
No.
I completely agree.
Because, Essentially, business, innovation,like growth, it's all just failing at stuff
effectively and then eventually finding, oh, Ididn't fail at this way, so let's go do it that
way.
Right.
And if you can do that faster, obviously, thenyou can get to the the goal faster.
Right?
That's that's essentially it.
(24:40):
I Yes.
I I think, certainly, talking to leaders allthe time, they get this.
But people that aren't, owners specifically, Ifeel like that's lost on them of, like, yeah.
It's just it's literally just about, like, canI withstand the failure that is gonna
inherently happen across the board?
Because I've never met a leader that, like, oh,yeah.
(25:01):
Everything just went perfect.
It was, like, I got an idea.
I pitched the idea.
People just kept knocking on my door to getmore of it.
Like, I've never heard that story.
And if if you're listening and that's yourstory,
I'd love to talk to you
because you've been Send me that episode.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You've you've found the horseshoe or the LuckyCharms or whatever it is.
So okay.
So you got you got the team in place.
(25:23):
Also, culturally, you know, letting somebody goYes.
Literally across the world for a extendedperiod of time
Mhmm.
Is not generally the easiest thing.
Mhmm.
But willing to try.
Right?
Which is a it's a cool thing.
So what else?
So are you so obviously, did do stuff inOklahoma City, but are you now breaking state
lines?
Or what does that look like?
What's what's growth in in project wise looklike?
(25:45):
Yeah.
So, I mean, the travel work has been reallyamazing to just get to again, with my
background in branding and marketing too, it'slike, what is the deeper story we're trying to
tell, and how do we do that in space and designand and and create that whole experience is is
so cool, the idea of place making.
And, we're working on a a travel center rightnow, that's gonna be for Seminole Nation.
(26:09):
So that's just been really neat to, you know,hear their story, get into the dig into the
weeds a bit more, and get to, figure out how dowe create a sense of place.
You know?
Like, literally, this building that that isgonna be built is is, in a sense, kind of in
the middle of nowhere.
So it's like we're it it's in town, but there'sstill not, you know, a ton there.
(26:30):
And so it's like this could become a a centeris going to become a center, a place for the
community, for, yeah.
Like, it's it's just been really neat to be apart of that story.
And so are the kind of projects that we getreally excited about.
We have our we have our first out of state sitevisit we're gonna take our whole team to.
(26:51):
This is a project we're super excited about inMontana.
This is, again, like, really cool story.
This couple, they bought this old brewery, andit's in downtown, Kalispell, Montana.
And, you know, kind of they dabbled into allthese different entrepreneurial things.
Their story is amazing too in itself, but, kindof have found, you know, things that are
(27:16):
working taking off.
And so, they're turning the top floor into aresidential space, and then the bottom is gonna
be commercial and leased out.
And so it's been, again, really cool to be apart of their story, to help them navigate all
the, you know, budget swings can go come reallyhard and fast in projects like that.
(27:36):
And so to help, you know, people, everydaypeople that are just trying to, like, have this
big vision and a dream and trying to, like,figure out what it's gonna take to actually get
this off the ground.
Those are really exciting things for us.
And and the stories there, again, it's like weget to be a part of this new chapter for that
building, this community, for what this coupleis building.
(27:59):
It's it's really cool to be a part of that kindof place making.
So
That's awesome.
Similar, story to y'all.
If they dabbled in a bunch of differententrepreneurship Yes.
Finding finding the right path, which is cool.
That's, it kind of bring brings it full circlethere.
So alright.
So then all that stuff is happening.
(28:19):
What what, what, what's the vision here?
Right?
So now that you are, I'm going to say, youknow, officially a proven business, like you
are no question Y'all about y'all are realdeal.
You're, you are a firm.
There's no question.
So now what's the horizon?
Like, what's what's the next?
It is it's a really exciting season to I mean,honestly, to and it's very humbling to be like,
(28:44):
oh my gosh.
We've really hit kind of our goals, at least,you know, when we were like the little young
ones trying to figure it out.
And now it's like, okay.
What do we want?
I think, you know, your first response is growbigger, bigger, more, more, more.
And I I think we're really trying to not just,you know we have doubled every year since 2017,
(29:06):
which is super exciting.
We hit seven figures this year.
We're, like, rocking and rolling, and and Idon't see that just slowing down.
But and super humbled and excited about that.
But I think, yeah, how do we we've always, fromthe beginning, tried to build a firm that what
what do we say?
(29:26):
It's like, we're not building a firm.
We're growing a firm.
Like, we're not just, you know, trying to,like, build something in two years and and and
kinda take our hands off.
It's like we're growing something withintention.
We want people to love working here, and wewanna do projects that that mean something.
And sometimes sometimes that's not always, youknow, the most luxurious project or, you know,
(29:48):
but it's it's the most needed right now in thecommunity.
And that can be just as meaningful andimpactful.
And so I think being excited about what whatare the stories happening in Oklahoma City in
these, communities, and how do we get to be apart of telling those, whether that's through
volunteering, through architecture, throughdesign, through just, yeah, like our business
(30:09):
supporting another business.
I mean, that's been the coolest part, like withthis other couple is, and one of my favorite
parts is like, well, you get to meet theseother entrepreneurs that are, you know, like
Kell and I were fifteen years ago, trying to,you know, go off a hope and a prayer.
And hopefully they have a business plan andsomewhat of a because some people you're like,
(30:30):
wait, how many cups of coffee do you need tosell in an hour or a month?
And it's like, they don't know.
And I'm like, y'all already signed
a lease.
Like, like, let's let's have
a plan, guys.
So there's been but it's it being getting to bea part of those stories and helping those
(30:50):
entrepreneurs, even if it's just, you know, apermit set getting you through the city and
sending you on your way, it it's still reallycool to to be be a part of those young
entrepreneurs and developers and seeing whatthey're wanting to go do.
So Yeah.
That's that's fun.
That's, like I said, that full circle feelingis, I don't know, that, that to me is where,
(31:15):
business gets more and more fulfilling when youcan help somebody else where you were, you
know, in the past.
That's, I don't know.
And literally when we started the podcast, itwas literally, Hey, how can we just help other
people not fall into the same pitfalls or likenot pay the same entrepreneurial tax that you
had to pay?
Because if you could just help somebody just alittle bit, man, that's that's so, so, so
(31:37):
fulfilling.
I feel that definitely from you, even just withthe podcast, because I know you don't you don't
get paid the big bucks to to do this, but youobviously love telling stories and love
bringing people into this conversation, andthat's really cool.
And I see with the growth of our team, witheverything we're trying to do, it's just been
(31:59):
really, really cool to, yeah, be be a part ofthis bigger community that's growing in
Oklahoma City with design and architecture.
And Yeah.
It it's just been really, really rewarding.
I was thinking about what was it?
Sorry.
My brain's going into, like, five differentdirections, but it'll come back to
(32:22):
you had mentioned being, essentially contractorfriendly.
Yeah.
I'll put it that way.
What Mhmm.
What does that look like compared to what andI'm and I'm not I don't wanna label all
architecture firms certainly Yeah.
Being more difficult for a contractor, but whatis essentially seen as that contractor
(32:43):
architect relationship and how it traditionallyhas worked and how y'all are trying to make
that a little bit different?
Well, I think, again, like coming at a projectas a team versus, like, coming in combative
and, like, we're always right and you're alwayswrong.
Coming in at it as, you know, like, how do wewe're trying to do something different.
(33:06):
And so how do like, in it let's say, in a acertain detail.
And so it's like, instead of getting frustratedat the contractor because they're not figuring
it out or it's not being done right, like, dowe have conversations early on to support that
contractor?
So and so versus them saying like, well, Idon't know how to do this, you know, or who's
the subs that are gonna do this?
(33:27):
It's like, hey.
Here's three people we've already talked tothat could, you know, execute this and kind of
how do we get into the weeds with them so thatwe can create something different, unique, and
special, and we do it together as a team.
And and also, like, they're the ones having tosource pricing.
And, you know, when when it comes to actually,like, in the moment, getting that material here
(33:48):
on time and and executing that, you know, theconstruction of it, how do we help, you know,
again, whether that's getting vendorsrecommending vendors, bringing those
relationships to the table, How how can we helphave those conversations?
And so we're not holding on to the design sotightly.
This, like, if they can bring a differentmaterial we don't know about, like, let's talk
(34:10):
about that.
You know?
But, like, let's
Yeah.
Do that collaboratively, and let's do thatearly on so that we haven't shown this the
client this, like, great, beautiful, bigpicture, and then the contractor's stuck having
to execute this, like, dream, or they're theone having to constantly, like, chop it down.
That's not that's not a win for us.
Like, the client's not happy.
You know, the contractor's frustrated.
(34:31):
So how how do we all I for us, that's bringingthe contractor in early, getting that pricing
base even square foot pricing early on as muchas much information as we can up on the on the
front end, and then kind of letting the designfollow that a little bit more versus, like, us
just going with this big pretty picture, whichis fun to do.
(34:54):
But but to us, like, a successful project ishow do we actually land the plane in the end,
and can we do that all successfully where we'reeverybody feels good.
You you keep that momentum of excitement fromfrom the design, which is the fun, like,
fluttery stuff, to actual, like, execution.
How do we keep that excitement up throughoutthe whole project?
(35:16):
So that's been a big part of our process is howdo we you know, for us, that looks like
building relationships with contractors thatwant to want that kind of relationship, that
are willing to get in the weeds with us alittle bit, and and then the clients that
appreciate that sort of transparency from thefrom the beginning.
So and I mean, I I do a twenty minute call,discovery call on our website.
(35:40):
People can book it.
And as we grow, I don't know if that'ssomething I'll be able to do forever and ever
and always, but I like you're talking about, Ijust wanna be a resource for people.
And Yep.
I do believe that work's gonna come back to us.
And so even if right now and a lot of peopleare like, I couldn't even get an architect firm
to call me back or talk to me or you know?
(36:00):
And so it's like, how do we, come full circleand, like, start from the very beginning?
Like, I just wanna be a resource for yourproject.
And if if if we're not the best fit, like, howcan I point you in the right direction?
So
Oh, yeah.
That so few things.
One, give to give.
Love that.
You just I'm giving to give.
And, you know, I'll I'll let the universe shakeout that in, in the long run there.
(36:22):
That's certainly an attitude I have in life.
Yeah.
But also the, the relationship betweencontractor and architect is almost like that,
visionary integrator, connection in businesswhere it's like, you can have great vision, but
if you don't actually have somebody that'sgonna do the work, do the execution component
of it, doesn't matter.
But the same goes the other way.
I'll do all the hard work, but if you don'thave a vision, then it's like, well, what are
(36:44):
you, what are you building?
And I think it's easy to get mad at the personthat's left having to execute that when we get
to be up here on the front end of theexcitement and all the stuff.
And it's like, yeah.
Again, how do we carry that excitementthroughout the whole project?
And I I I think that's having the moneyconversation as quickly as possible so that,
(37:05):
you know, we're not nobody's left in stickershock at the end or close to the end,
hopefully.
So No.
That makes tonal tonal sense.
This is awesome.
This has been great.
If somebody wanna get ahold of you, what's thebest way for them to do that?
Yes.
So we are on Instagram and Facebook.
I don't know.
Were people still on Facebook?
I think so.
I think so.
(37:25):
I
I believe it is, millennials, I think, go toFacebook.
I there are actual, you know, metrics to this,and I should probably know them better.
But I believe it's yes.
That and older millennials and older, and thenall the new generations or younger generations
are no longer Facebook users to myunderstanding.
Well, there we go.
So we're on Facebook, Instagram, and then ourwebsite, greencouchdesign.net.
(37:49):
And, yeah, would love send me an email.
Say hi.
I'm still checking all the things, and, yeah,really excited to continue to grow our team.
I was telling you, we just got a new we got anoffice.
So we've Yep.
We've been just enjoying settling in and andfinding our feet.
So super grateful to be here.
Thanks for everything.
(38:09):
It's very, very, very exciting.
I look forward to, you know, taking my pillpilgrimage to Oklahoma City and seeing you and
and the others that I've now come to to beconnected to.
So love that.
Anything else you wanna tell the people beforewe say our goodbyes?
Please come so we can host you.
And, yeah, same thing.
(38:30):
Like, if any of your listeners are ever inOklahoma City, I literally literally, we would
love to host you.
Like like you said, just having theconversation, getting to know other
entrepreneurs, people out there that are doingamazing things and that care about the work
that they're doing, yeah, would love to pleasecome to Oklahoma City.
There's amazing things happening, and we'resuper proud of the work that's happening here.
(38:51):
So
Awesome.
Well, listeners, this has been a ton of fun,and until next time, adios.
Thanks.
Thanks for listening to building scale.
To help us reach even more people, please sharethis episode with a friend, colleague, or on
social media.
Remember, the three pillars of scaling abusiness are people, process, and technology.
(39:13):
And our mission is to help the AEC industryprotect itself by making technology easy.
So if you think your company's technologypillar could use some improvement, book a call
with us to see how we can help maximize your ITcybersecurity strategy.
Just go to buildingscale.net/help.
(39:36):
And until next time.
Keep building scale.
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