September 22, 2025 • 30 mins
Had an AHA or Insight? Share it:
Betrayal cuts deep. It’s not just emotional pain but often impacts your health, your work, and your ability to trust again. In this episode of the Business Growth Architect Show: Founders of the Future, I sit down with Dr. Debi Silber, founder of the PBT (Post Betrayal Transformation) Institute, to uncover why betrayal is a different kind of trauma and why traditional healing or talk therapy approaches can often keep us stuck instead of setting us free.
Debi shares her own powerful story of family and marital betrayal, how she turned her quest to heal her pain into a PhD, and the groundbreaking discoveries she made through her research. We talk about Post-Betrayal Syndrome and how symptoms like digestive issues, migraines, brain fog, or chronic fatigue can stem from unresolved wounds. More importantly, she reveals the five predictable stages of healing and why so many people never move past Stage 3, the survival mode.
This conversation is raw, real, and full of insights that will challenge how you think about betrayal, forgiveness, and healing. If you’ve ever been hurt by someone you trusted, this episode will give you tools and hope for a new way forward. 👉 What happened to you is bad enough, don’t let betrayal define your future. Watch now and visit PBTInstitute.com to learn more about Dr. Debi Silber’s transformative programs.
💡 If you’ve carried betrayal wounds for years, this episode will give you hope, tools, and a path forward.
🔔 Subscribe for more episodes of the Business Growth Architect Show: Founders of the Future
👍 If this episode resonated, please like and share—it helps us reach more people who need this message.
💬 I’d love to hear from you in the comments: What stage of betrayal healing do you feel you’re in right now?
Resources Mentioned: Website | Instagram | LinkedIn | Facebook | From Betrayal to Breakthrough Podcast
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. Debi Silber (00:00):
I had a really painful betrayal from my family,
(00:02):
and then it happened again a fewyears later, this time, it was
my husband
BEATE CHELETTE (00:08):
that shattered your sense of self.
Dr. Debi Silber (00:11):
We can't show up effectively. Our confidence
was shattered, releasing thepower all that pain has over us.
Betrayal is a different type oftrauma that needs a different
way to heal. If you're stuck, noritual is going to get you out.
Change begins when you tellyourself the truth.
BEATE CHELETTE (00:37):
Welcome back.
Beate Chelette here today, weare with Dr. Debbie Silver, and
we are addressing a crazy, crazytopic that I think you all need
to be hearing. So my firstquestion to you is, are you
carrying a wound, a betrayal sodeeply that shattered your sense
of self, and what did you doabout it?
Dr. Debi Silber (01:02):
Yeah, it's a betrayal. Is one of those things
where it's we don't see it, sowe don't recognize it, we don't
validate we don't speak aboutit. But it greatly impacts how
we show up in our work, in ourhealth, in our relationships, of
course, and I see itparticularly, and I think this
is what will really resonatewith your audience. When we have
(01:24):
low morale, low productivity,absenteeism, their betrayal
shatters the self. So whetherit's we're working within a
company or, let's say, we'rerepresenting our own business,
we can't show up effectively. Wecan't put ourselves out there,
because our confidence wasshattered, right? We we don't
trust a boss, a co worker, acollaborative partner. It
(01:47):
affects everyone and everything.
So it all needs to be cleanedup. And the beauty, the beauty
of all of that, is, there's away to do all of it.
BEATE CHELETTE (01:56):
I love that, so I want to dive in this for you,
though, what was the triggerevent for you to do the work
that you do? And what does thePBT Institute instead for? Yeah,
so
Dr. Debi Silber (02:07):
I don't think anybody says, you know, I think
I want to study betrayal. No,no, you you said it because you
have to. So I've been inbusiness close to 34 years now,
and it was health, mindset,personal development. I had a
really painful betrayal from myfamily. I thought I did all I
needed to do to heal from that.
And then it happened again a fewyears later. This time, it was
my husband that was the dealbreaker. Got him out of the
(02:29):
house, looked at the twoexperiences, thinking, what's
similar to these two? Of course,me, but what else? And I
realized I never took my ownneeds seriously. Boundaries were
always crossed, and I'm one ofthose believers. You know, it's
like if nothing changes, nothingchanges. So usually I went to
courses or books or something tohelp me heal, and there wasn't
anything available, so I decidedto enroll in a PhD program. So
(02:53):
here it was, four kids, sixdogs, a thriving business, going
back for a PhD at 50. And whileI was there, I did a study, and
I studied betrayal, and I justwanted to study it so that I
could help myself, help myclients, of course, help my
kids. And that study led tothree groundbreaking
discoveries, which changed myhealth, my family, my work,
BEATE CHELETTE (03:18):
my life beautiful. And we'll go into
that in a second. But before Igo there, I want to really
articulate this. Why could younot just forgive I mean, isn't
that what everybody else says islike, hey, it happened. Big
deal. You know, good thingshappen. Bad things happen to
good people. Just let it go,move on. What was it about that
(03:39):
that you felt that was not theway to go. Yeah.
Dr. Debi Silber (03:41):
Well, it's interesting you say that because
I'm the founder of nationalforgiveness day, September 1.
I'm a big believer inforgiveness, but forgiveness
really has nothing to do withthe other person. It has
everything to do with the self.
It has everything to do with us,releasing the power all that
pain has over us as it relatesto healing from betrayal when,
let's say, you're trying torebuild with that person. And I
(04:04):
even remember when I was doingmy own study, reading a study
about this, and it made so muchsense, if you feel safe and
valued and you forgive, you feelbetter. If you do not feel safe
and valued and you forgive, youfeel worse, there's a very
important timeframe forforgiveness, not certainly not
(04:25):
early on. It backfires everysingle time, but when it's done
at the right time for the rightreasons, because it's about you,
then it accelerates yourhealing. For sure,
you know what I'm hearing Debbieis that it's almost like you had
to get yourself to a particularemotional point or a logical
(04:46):
piece. I've had significantbetrayal in my life, and I
always describe it as thewaiting for the other shoe to
drop. What was that for you thatyou could get yourself to this
particular point to even. Tosort of acknowledge that. I
mean, wouldn't you want toprotect yourself from the other
shoe to drop?
(05:07):
Yeah, you know, it'sinteresting, because logic has
so little to do with betrayaland with forgiveness, and you
actually have to bypass thelogical rational mind, because
everything in the logicalrational mind says, Are you
crazy? Why would you forgive?
Why would you but when yourealize it has nothing to do
with that person, it's so thatyou're free, so that you have
(05:30):
that past. I think people,people feel that forgiving means
I'm setting myself up for it tohappen again. I'm weak, I'm a
sucker. I'm I have no boundariesin place, not at all, not at
all. You're not expecting thatother person to change. You're
just saying, I'm not giving youany more of my power because
(05:51):
it's taken way too much from mealready. Think about it. If we
have, let's say, best casescenario, 100% of our energy,
and if 40, 50, 60% of it isspent on, what are they doing?
What are they thinking? Why'dthey do this? All of that, we
only have the remainder to heal.
(06:12):
That's not fair to us. And it'sso interesting, because I
remember when we were doing a 21day forgiveness journey. Now
it's a program, and one, therewas a woman in our program, and
she had a 70 plus year digestiveissue so common after betrayal
from a family, betrayal, she wasadopted. They didn't tell her it
was like that kind of thing. Shewas in her mid 80s, 70 plus
(06:35):
years with a digestive issue.
Two weeks in. I were maybe evenone weekend, but two weeks in,
I'll say two weeks. And I don'teven think it was that long
healed from a 70 plus yeardigestive issue because of how
she dealt with the root of it,which was the betrayal,
releasing through forgiveness.
BEATE CHELETTE (06:56):
Well, I mean, how surprised will you be that I
tell you that I have a 40 yeardigestive issue?
Dr. Debi Silber (07:01):
Yeah, yeah. And it's so common. I mean, 45% we
did a and if we get into thestudy, I'll share some of the
stats for post betrayalsyndrome. That's a real thing.
And we've, we've had over,easily, over 100,000 people take
our post betrayal syndrome quizto see to what extent they're
struggling. 45% of everybodybetrayed has a digestive issue,
(07:24):
Crohn's, IBS, diverticulitis,constipation, diarrhea, you name
it. So common. Well, think aboutit. Look what the gut does. It
absorbs, digest and processesfood. Well, think about a
betrayal. Isn't that difficultto absorb, digest and process
BEATE CHELETTE (07:38):
well. And you know, it's interesting that you
say that when we lost our home,the last six months have been
horrific for my digestion. Imean, I've never even
experienced anything like this.
About a month ago, had to reallysit down and say, Okay, how am I
going to address this? And I didthis with somatic trauma release
and better supplements andreally getting myself my head
(07:59):
around, sort of what's what'sgoing on. But you say getting my
head around it isn't really whatI need to be doing. What should
I be doing? I mean,
Dr. Debi Silber (08:08):
that's a great part of it, but it is a part of
it. That's what happens withwhen there's, there's a shock to
the body, to the mind, to theheart. What we often do is this,
these are the things wetypically do, we will go to a
therapist, right? And here's thething, well meaning therapists,
but if they're not highlyskilled in betrayal, we will
(08:29):
feel heard, validated,understood. We're not an inch
closer to healing, and that'spart of the third discovery, or
we numb ourselves because it'sso painful. So we may run to the
doctor who puts us on a moodstabilizer, anti anxiety
medication. We may use food,drugs, alcohol, work, TV,
(08:49):
anything right to distractourselves that's gonna prevent
us from healing as well. Orwe'll join a support group, some
type of support group, and itusually becomes the Indian awful
club where it's someone sharestheir story, and it's like, Oh,
you think that's bad. This iswhat happened to me. This is
what happened to me. This whathappened to me. And what happens
is we actually sabotage ourhealing, because now we found
(09:12):
our people, and we have this incommon. And if we heal, and if
we if we actually move forward?
Well, what happens to our groupnow? So very specific reasons
why we sabotage ourselves andwhy we stay stuck, but
BEATE CHELETTE (09:31):
so powerful, yeah, I, you know, as you're
saying this, I can't help butthink about as a, as a, you
know, coach, consultant, and Irun a couple groups a lot of
times. You know, the teachingsays you need to stay in
Gestalt, which means you cannotgive anybody advice. You have to
give a relatable example. And Iremember this very vividly. I
(09:54):
was once in a in a group, and Irecognized that I could not.
Stay, because all these Gestaltexperiences that I could access
were all my traumatizingexperiences, and every time I
walked out of that, I felthorrible afterward, and
eventually I had to quit becauseI said I don't need to go
(10:16):
anywhere to re trauma re,traumatize myself over and over
again. So you talk about aframework for healing betrayal.
So let's talk first about whattypes of betrayals are there.
Because maybe people are noteven aware that they carry this
betrayal with
Dr. Debi Silber (10:33):
it. You know, I define betrayal as the breaking
of a spoken or unspoken rule,and every relationship has them.
And the way it works is, themore we trust, the more we
depend on someone, the deeperthe betrayal. So for example, a
child who's completely dependenton their parent, and the parent
does something awful that'sgoing to have a different impact
than, let's say, your co workertaking credit for your idea. You
(10:55):
see, still betrayals, differentlevel of cleanup, but it's
whenever there was the breakingof that spoken or unspoken rule.
Like, let's say at work, youhave your boss, and maybe the
idea was, and the understandingwas, you do this work, you'll
get this raise, and then youdon't, that's a betrayal. Or
you're you're bypassed for thatpromotion and it was promised to
(11:16):
you. That's a betrayal. Or itcould be, when mom with you have
siblings, when mom and dad areolder, we'll take care of them,
and all of a sudden, of asudden, mom and dad are older,
and where are the siblings? Yousee, it's a betrayal, or your
your best friend sharing yoursecret self betrayal. We know
something or someone is not inour best interest, and we still
keep doing it. That's, that's abetrayal as well. So it's, it's
(11:39):
the breaking of that spoken orunspoken rule,
BEATE CHELETTE (11:42):
I think the keeping of the word is really
critical. I mean, in all thespiritual teachings that I've
studied, one of the mostcritical pieces is specifically
the word that you give yourselfwhen you say something and you
don't do it, you're now trainingyourself to not keep your own
(12:02):
word, and I think it has veryintense and lasting
consequences. I talk about thisall the time with my clients. Do
not over promise, only promise,what you can actually
Dr. Debi Silber (12:13):
keep. Yeah, and you know that's such an
important piece when it comes torebuilding trust. Trust is
absolutely shattered withbetrayal and self trust gets
shattered too, because the wayit works is, now we're looking
at the person that we trustedthe most, and the next thing is,
well, I can't trust that person.
Wait a second, where was I? Howdid I not see? How did I not
(12:34):
know? So if I can't trust theperson I trusted the most and I
can't trust myself, how in theworld. Can I trust in anything
and anyone? So we have torebuild trust from the ground
up. And an important piece ofthat is, is rebuilding self
trust, where you say somethingand you do it, and it can be as
simple as I'll drink that glassof water, and you do. I'm going
to make that phone call, and youdo. And what you are doing is
(12:56):
you are showing yourself My wordis law. If I say something I
mean it, I can be trusted, andit's a really helpful and
important step in rebuildingtrust.
BEATE CHELETTE (13:07):
I love that. I so So, so, so, so love that. So
let's talk about your work. NowI come to you and you are you
said your research discovered acompletely new framework for
healing. Tell me about that.
Dr. Debi Silber (13:22):
Yeah. Well, the first discovery was that
betrayal is a different type oftrauma that needs a different
way to heal. Most people justlook at betrayal as as a trauma
like death of a loved one or ordisease or natural disaster. And
the difference is the invitationis to rebuild your life after an
experience like that, but withbetrayal, you have to rebuild
(13:44):
your life, not you don't haveto. That's the invitation
rebuild your life and rebuildyourself. So that betrayal is a
different type of trauma thatneeds a different way to heal.
That was the first discovery.
The second discovery was there'sa collection of symptoms,
physical, mental and emotionalso common to betrayal. It's
known as post betrayal syndrome.
(14:04):
I can share those stats lateron. But to answer your question,
the third discovery was theframework, and this, for me, was
the most exciting of the threediscoveries. And what we learned
was, while we can stay stuck foryears, decades, a lifetime, and
most people do, you said 40years for digestive issues, so
there's still some stucknessthere, right? If we're going to
(14:25):
fully heal, we will move throughFive proven, predictable stages.
And what's even more excitingabout that is we now know what
happens physically, mentally andemotionally at every stage, and
we know how to move from onestage to the next. Healing is
entirely predictable. Happy toshare the stages if you want to
hear
BEATE CHELETTE (14:43):
them, I think, I think we must share them with
the audience.
Dr. Debi Silber (14:48):
Go ahead. All right, because that would have
been an awkward moment if yousaid no, but
BEATE CHELETTE (14:51):
okay, I was like, hey, you know, this was a
great podcast, and goodbye now,and we just leave you hanging
here.
Dr. Debi Silber (14:56):
Okay, so everyone will know exactly what
stage they're in when. I sharethese. Of course, this is all we
do within the PBT Institute.
This is what I certify ourcoaches, PBT coaches in I will
give you a distilled versionhere. So stage one is before it
happens. And if you can imaginefour legs of a table, the four
legs being physical, mental,emotional and spiritual, what I
saw with everybody, me too, wasa heavy lean on the physical and
(15:18):
the mental, thinking and doing.
We're so great at that, and kindof neglecting or ignoring the
emotional and the spiritualfeeling and being well, if a
table only has two legs, it'sgoing to be easy for that table
to topple over. That's us. Stagetwo, shock trauma, D Day,
Discovery day. This is thescariest of all of the stages.
Everybody remembers their D Day.
And this is the breakdown of thebody, the mind and the
(15:42):
worldview. So right here, you'veignited the stress response.
You're now headed for everysingle stress related symptom,
illness, condition, disease.
This is where your gut issuestarted. Right here, your mind
is in a state of overwhelm. Youcannot wrap your mind around
what you just really learnedmakes no sense, and your
(16:05):
worldview has been shattered.
That's your mental model, therules that govern you, that
prevent chaos, don't go there.
Trust this person. These are therules, and in one earth
shattering moment, every ruleyou've been holding on to is no
longer. The bottom has bottomedout, and a new bottom hasn't
been formed yet. This isterrifying, but think about it,
(16:27):
if the bottom were to bottom outon you, what would you do? You'd
grab hold of anything or anyonein order to stay safe and stay
alive. And that's stage three.
Survival Instincts emerge. Thisis the most practical out of all
of the stages. If you can't helpme, Get out of my way. How do I
survive this? Who can I trust?
Where do I go? Here's the trap,though, stage three, by far,
(16:50):
hands down, is the most commonplace. We get stuck. Most of
your clients are right here.
You'll see it. Here's why, oncewe've figured out how to survive
our experience, because it feelsso much better than the shock
and trauma we just came from. Wethink it's good. And because we
don't know there's anywhere elseto go, we don't know there's a
stage four, stage fivetransformation doesn't even
(17:13):
begin until stage four. Butbecause we don't know anything
about that, we plant roots here.
We're not supposed to, but wedon't know that. And four things
start to happen. The first thingis we start getting all of those
small self benefits. We get ourstory like the group you were
in, everybody had their story,right? We love that. We love our
(17:34):
story. We get to be right. Weget sympathy from everyone. We
tell our story to we get someoneto blame. We get a target for
our anger. We don't have tolearn how to trust again, all
these kinds of things. So we'reso unhappy, but these feel like
benefits. So we say we plantdeeper roots. And now the mind
starts doing things like, maybeyou're not that great, maybe
(17:55):
it's you. Maybe you deserved it.
So we plant deeper roots. Andnow, because these are the
thoughts we're thinking. This isthe energy we start putting out.
And like energy attracts likeenergy. So now we start
attracting conversations andrelationships and circumstances
and experiences to prove this iswhere you belong and and here's
where we join that group. Here'swhere we go to therapy. Here's
(18:19):
where, and, like I said, wellmeaning therapist, but you're
you're feeling heard, validated,understood. You're like, why am
I? Like, stuck? It's like crazyglue to stage three. Here's
where you're actually healing,but you will sabotage your
healing because you're afraid tooutgrow your betrayer. It gets
worse, but I'll get you out ofhere, because it feels so
BEATE CHELETTE (18:41):
thank you. Yeah, I can't leave you like, in my
mind, I'm like, going throughthis as you're talking right, of
course. And this is where mostpeople say, right, but because,
uh huh, yeah, that sounds aboutright. Yes, go ahead,
Dr. Debi Silber (18:54):
exactly so, but because it's so miserable. But
you don't know there's anywhereelse to go, right. Here we start
numbing, avoiding, avoidingdistracting. So here's where we
start using the food, drugs,alcohol, work, TV, whatever we
do, it for a day, a week, amonth. Now it's a habit a year,
10 years, 20 years, 40 years.
And I can see someone 40 yearslater and say that digestive
(19:14):
issue, do you think that hasanything to do with your
betrayal? They look at me likeI'm crazy. It happened decades
ago. All we did was putourselves in stage three and
stay there. Does that makesense?
BEATE CHELETTE (19:29):
Yes, I do, because there are no tools at
this stage that are widelyknown. And if you go into
therapy, as you say, a lot ofthe talk therapy just keeps you
there, because you keep talkingabout and your feelings about
that, and then you mount thestory, and what does it mean to
you, and how do you feel aboutit. And then you are listening
(19:52):
to the opposite of what I shouldbe doing. I'm now justifying and
going deeper into my. Like tofeel this particular way
Dr. Debi Silber (20:02):
Exactly. Can I get you into stage four?
BEATE CHELETTE (20:04):
Please go ahead.
I'm I'm ready. We're done withstage three.
Dr. Debi Silber (20:08):
Okay, if, if we're willing. Willingness is a
big word right here. Willing tolet go of our story, grieve,
mourn the loss. A bunch ofthings we need to do we move to
stage four. Stage four isfinding and adjusting to a new
normal. So here's where weacknowledge, I can't change what
happened, but I control what Ido with it. Right there in that
(20:29):
decision, you're turning downthe stress response. You're not
healing just yet, but at leastyou stop the massive damage that
was being created in stages twoand stage three, stage four
feels like if you've ever moved,if you've ever moved to new
house, office, condo, apartment,whatever, your stuff's not
there. It's not cozy yet, butit's like this hopeful
excitement, right? It feels likethat. But think about it, if you
(20:52):
were to move, you don't takeeverything with you. You don't
take those things that don'trepresent who you're now ready
to become same thing here,there's a spot as people move
from stage three to stage four,if your friends weren't there
for you, they're not comingalong. That support group that
was just rehashing everythingyou're done, that therapist,
(21:13):
were you just feeling heard,validated, understood, you're
done? That betrayer who's notchanging you're done. And people
ask me all the time, Dr, Debbie,is it me? Yes, it is. You're
undergoing a transformation, andif they don't rise, they don't
come along. So very, very newspace, very action oriented.
Anyway, when you settle intothis new space, you make it
(21:34):
cozy, you make it kind ofmentally home. You move into the
fifth most beautiful stage, andthis is healing, rebirth and a
new world view. The body startsto heal, self love, self care,
eating, well, exercise. Wedidn't have the bandwidth for
that earlier. Now we do. Themind is healing. We're making
all kinds of new rules, newboundaries based on what we see
so clearly, and we have a newworld view based on everything
(21:57):
we've just been through. And thefour legs of that table in the
beginning, it was all about thephysical and the mental. By this
point, we're solidly groundedbecause we're focusing on the
emotional and the spiritual too.
Those are the five stages Ilove,
BEATE CHELETTE (22:11):
that it's interesting and as an
experience, share. What I havenoticed now going into eight
months after this catastrophe isthat I certainly was numbing.
You know, alcohol helps when youare in a place like this, and a
lot of the stuff now is changingmy meditation practice, my self
(22:34):
care practice, I have givenmyself a lot more grace as to
where I am in my healing and notbeing mad that I just can't
focus sometimes, or I'mincredibly tired, and now I'm
giving myself permission tosleep. And it's simple things
like when you put body lotion onyourself, and one of my clients
(23:00):
had taught me that. She says,one of your self care protocols,
you can see how your love foryourself is on how you apply
body lotion. I'm like, What doyou mean? She says, are you
just, you know, like, rush,rush, rush, rush, rush, rush, or
are you actually taking the timeto feel what your skin feels
like, the nourishing and youmake that a ritual, you know?
Could this be a ritual? And so Ithink, how do you how do you
(23:25):
tell your clients our audience,what are maybe some of the
things that they can dolistening now to this podcast
and say, How do I get myself onthis point of healing? Are there
some rituals we could recommendthem to immediately start on,
Dr. Debi Silber (23:42):
yeah, but before that, I would really
invite them to consider, arethey are they stuck? Because if
you're stuck, no ritual is goingto get you out of that
stuckness, so it'll help. Butthese are four questions that I
invite everybody to write down.
That's my way of saying, writeit down. And these are, this is
how you'll know if you're stuckready. Am I numbing, avoiding
(24:02):
distracting? If so, how likecall yourself on it. You know,
do you? Do you go into thekitchen, you're not the least
bit hungry, and there you areraiding the cabinets. Or are you
do? You go into a room and youput on some music, or a TV,
anything to drown out the soundof your own thoughts, right? The
(24:22):
second question, what am iPretending not to see? It's a
deep question, am i Pretendingnot to see that my relationship
is in trouble? Am I pretendingnot to see I hate my job by
pretending not to see thathealth issue that needs my
attention? Call yourself on it.
Third question, what's lifegoing to look like in five to 10
(24:44):
years if I keep this going playout exactly how you're managing,
not managing, this relationship,business, health issue, five to
10 years, if you were to keepdoing what you're doing or not
doing i. What does that looklike five to 10 years from now?
Right? Like, take a look. Andthe fourth question, what can
(25:06):
life look like in five to 10years if I change now? I'm not
saying change is easy, butchange begins when you tell
yourself the truth. So once yourealize what you're working with
now, your rituals can work somuch better for you.
BEATE CHELETTE (25:21):
Wow, that's beautiful. Yeah. I think this
self awareness. Why are peopleholding on to the story? What is
it about that they
Dr. Debi Silber (25:30):
don't understand that there's
something so much better forthem, the most important people
in my life all betrayed me. Butlook at the story I have now.
1000s of people you know thatare being helped, the the books,
the podcasts, the TEDx talks,the certifications, the right,
the story now is so much better.
But when we don't know there'sanything better, we cling, cling
on to the familiar, known only,only because it's familiar.
(25:54):
That's the only benefit. Is thatit's familiar, just like every
single thing in your life wasonce unfamiliar and had and you
did it, and it's becomefamiliar. This is something
that's familiar, and you'resticking with it only because of
that unfamiliar, known that isso much better. And if you knew
(26:17):
what stages four and five, feltlike I promised you wouldn't
waste a minute in stage three.
BEATE CHELETTE (26:25):
I remember this when I was in my Ayahuasca
journey, and we had really comeup with a story, and I looked at
this from a differentperspective, and then there was
almost this moment of fear tolet the story go, because I had
held on to it for so long, andthat was the meaning that gave
(26:47):
reason on why things were aparticular way. And I remember
thinking, if I let that go, it'slike all of this disappears.
Then what was all of this for?
How do you guide them throughthe fear that the meaning that
their life has had this entiretime suddenly disappears?
Because I think it sends peoplein a tailspin to let that go?
Dr. Debi Silber (27:10):
Oh, absolutely, that's the difference between
resilience and transformation.
I'm going to give you an exampleusing an analogy of a house, and
in my it was in I believe thesecond TEDx talk to you have
post betrayal syndrome. I talkabout this, and imagine an old
house, and imagine the old houseneeds a paint job, and you paint
that's resilience. You'rebringing it back. You're
(27:31):
restoring right? Transformationis a whole different thing. Or
like, imagine it needs a newroof, and you get a roof that's
resilience. Here's here's traumaand transformation. A tornado
comes by and levels the house. Anew paint job is not going to
fix it, and a new roof's notgoing to fix it, right? But
here's the thing, you have everyright to stand there at the lot
where your house wants to say,this is the most horrible thing
(27:52):
that's ever happened, you'd beright. And you can call
everybody over that you know,and say, Isn't this so terrible?
They'd all agree, and you cankick and scream and cry and
mourn until your last breath.
However, should you choose torebuild the house? You don't
have to, but if you choose to,why would you build the same
(28:13):
one? There's nothing there. Whynot give it everything the old
house didn't have? Right? Makeit better, make it more
beautiful. That's theopportunity. After betrayal,
everything has crashed andburned, and what you're doing is
you're bringing all the parts ofyou that you love, and you're
leaving behind everything thatno longer serves so here's the
(28:35):
thing, it's we get to redefineonce everything has broken down,
we don't have to rebuild it thesame way. The beauty is, there's
nothing there to from the old.
We're rebuilding somethingentirely new, and we get to
create something that otherwisewouldn't have had the
opportunity to be created.
(28:56):
That's trauma. Well served.
BEATE CHELETTE (28:58):
I love that. I love that so much. Well, this
has been really powerful.
Sometimes I feel very privilegedthat I can bring people on the
show that helped me myself asI'm as I'm going through,
literally rebuilding off thehouse. It is a redesigning on
what will work better, and it'sjust a painful process. So for
somebody who now goes maybe itis time for me to look into my
(29:21):
own betrayals and let them go.
Where do we send them?
Dr. Debi Silber (29:26):
Thank you.
Everything is at the PBT as inpost betrayal transformation,
the pbtinstitute.com we evenhave programs for the betrayer
too, for the betrayer who blewup their lives and realized they
want to become someone they'reproud of, and they do so
beautifully in our program,separate community, so there's
no triggering, but a separatecurriculum. But they do great.
(29:46):
So we have for the betrayed, forthe betrayer, and, of course,
our certification program.
BEATE CHELETTE (29:53):
Thank you so much. This has been an amazing
episode. I really appreciate youbeing here, and as somebody
who's carried a significantamount of wounds. So I can only
share with our audience today.
If you think there might besomething there, believe it and
do something about it. And withtoday's episode, we've given you
some great ideas on how to goabout it. Dr Debbie, thank you
(30:16):
so much for being on the show.
It's been an amazingconversation, and I hope I get
to see you soon again. Thank youuntil next time and GOODBYE.
That's it for this episode ofthe Business Growth Architect
Show, Founders of the Future, ifyou're done playing small and
ready to build the future onyour terms, subscribe, share and
(30:36):
help us reach more Trailblazerslike you, and if you're serious
about creating, growing andscaling a business that's
aligned with who you are,schedule your uncovery session
at uncoversion.com lead withvision. Move with purpose.
Create your future.
I had a really painful betrayal from my family,
(00:02):
and then it happened again a fewyears later, this time, it was
my husband
BEATE CHELETTE (00:08):
that shattered your sense of self.
Dr. Debi Silber (00:11):
We can't show up effectively. Our confidence
was shattered, releasing thepower all that pain has over us.
Betrayal is a different type oftrauma that needs a different
way to heal. If you're stuck, noritual is going to get you out.
Change begins when you tellyourself the truth.
BEATE CHELETTE (00:37):
Welcome back.
Beate Chelette here today, weare with Dr. Debbie Silver, and
we are addressing a crazy, crazytopic that I think you all need
to be hearing. So my firstquestion to you is, are you
carrying a wound, a betrayal sodeeply that shattered your sense
of self, and what did you doabout it?
Dr. Debi Silber (01:02):
Yeah, it's a betrayal. Is one of those things
where it's we don't see it, sowe don't recognize it, we don't
validate we don't speak aboutit. But it greatly impacts how
we show up in our work, in ourhealth, in our relationships, of
course, and I see itparticularly, and I think this
is what will really resonatewith your audience. When we have
(01:24):
low morale, low productivity,absenteeism, their betrayal
shatters the self. So whetherit's we're working within a
company or, let's say, we'rerepresenting our own business,
we can't show up effectively. Wecan't put ourselves out there,
because our confidence wasshattered, right? We we don't
trust a boss, a co worker, acollaborative partner. It
(01:47):
affects everyone and everything.
So it all needs to be cleanedup. And the beauty, the beauty
of all of that, is, there's away to do all of it.
BEATE CHELETTE (01:56):
I love that, so I want to dive in this for you,
though, what was the triggerevent for you to do the work
that you do? And what does thePBT Institute instead for? Yeah,
so
Dr. Debi Silber (02:07):
I don't think anybody says, you know, I think
I want to study betrayal. No,no, you you said it because you
have to. So I've been inbusiness close to 34 years now,
and it was health, mindset,personal development. I had a
really painful betrayal from myfamily. I thought I did all I
needed to do to heal from that.
And then it happened again a fewyears later. This time, it was
my husband that was the dealbreaker. Got him out of the
(02:29):
house, looked at the twoexperiences, thinking, what's
similar to these two? Of course,me, but what else? And I
realized I never took my ownneeds seriously. Boundaries were
always crossed, and I'm one ofthose believers. You know, it's
like if nothing changes, nothingchanges. So usually I went to
courses or books or something tohelp me heal, and there wasn't
anything available, so I decidedto enroll in a PhD program. So
(02:53):
here it was, four kids, sixdogs, a thriving business, going
back for a PhD at 50. And whileI was there, I did a study, and
I studied betrayal, and I justwanted to study it so that I
could help myself, help myclients, of course, help my
kids. And that study led tothree groundbreaking
discoveries, which changed myhealth, my family, my work,
BEATE CHELETTE (03:18):
my life beautiful. And we'll go into
that in a second. But before Igo there, I want to really
articulate this. Why could younot just forgive I mean, isn't
that what everybody else says islike, hey, it happened. Big
deal. You know, good thingshappen. Bad things happen to
good people. Just let it go,move on. What was it about that
(03:39):
that you felt that was not theway to go. Yeah.
Dr. Debi Silber (03:41):
Well, it's interesting you say that because
I'm the founder of nationalforgiveness day, September 1.
I'm a big believer inforgiveness, but forgiveness
really has nothing to do withthe other person. It has
everything to do with the self.
It has everything to do with us,releasing the power all that
pain has over us as it relatesto healing from betrayal when,
let's say, you're trying torebuild with that person. And I
(04:04):
even remember when I was doingmy own study, reading a study
about this, and it made so muchsense, if you feel safe and
valued and you forgive, you feelbetter. If you do not feel safe
and valued and you forgive, youfeel worse, there's a very
important timeframe forforgiveness, not certainly not
(04:25):
early on. It backfires everysingle time, but when it's done
at the right time for the rightreasons, because it's about you,
then it accelerates yourhealing. For sure,
you know what I'm hearing Debbieis that it's almost like you had
to get yourself to a particularemotional point or a logical
(04:46):
piece. I've had significantbetrayal in my life, and I
always describe it as thewaiting for the other shoe to
drop. What was that for you thatyou could get yourself to this
particular point to even. Tosort of acknowledge that. I
mean, wouldn't you want toprotect yourself from the other
shoe to drop?
(05:07):
Yeah, you know, it'sinteresting, because logic has
so little to do with betrayaland with forgiveness, and you
actually have to bypass thelogical rational mind, because
everything in the logicalrational mind says, Are you
crazy? Why would you forgive?
Why would you but when yourealize it has nothing to do
with that person, it's so thatyou're free, so that you have
(05:30):
that past. I think people,people feel that forgiving means
I'm setting myself up for it tohappen again. I'm weak, I'm a
sucker. I'm I have no boundariesin place, not at all, not at
all. You're not expecting thatother person to change. You're
just saying, I'm not giving youany more of my power because
(05:51):
it's taken way too much from mealready. Think about it. If we
have, let's say, best casescenario, 100% of our energy,
and if 40, 50, 60% of it isspent on, what are they doing?
What are they thinking? Why'dthey do this? All of that, we
only have the remainder to heal.
(06:12):
That's not fair to us. And it'sso interesting, because I
remember when we were doing a 21day forgiveness journey. Now
it's a program, and one, therewas a woman in our program, and
she had a 70 plus year digestiveissue so common after betrayal
from a family, betrayal, she wasadopted. They didn't tell her it
was like that kind of thing. Shewas in her mid 80s, 70 plus
(06:35):
years with a digestive issue.
Two weeks in. I were maybe evenone weekend, but two weeks in,
I'll say two weeks. And I don'teven think it was that long
healed from a 70 plus yeardigestive issue because of how
she dealt with the root of it,which was the betrayal,
releasing through forgiveness.
BEATE CHELETTE (06:56):
Well, I mean, how surprised will you be that I
tell you that I have a 40 yeardigestive issue?
Dr. Debi Silber (07:01):
Yeah, yeah. And it's so common. I mean, 45% we
did a and if we get into thestudy, I'll share some of the
stats for post betrayalsyndrome. That's a real thing.
And we've, we've had over,easily, over 100,000 people take
our post betrayal syndrome quizto see to what extent they're
struggling. 45% of everybodybetrayed has a digestive issue,
(07:24):
Crohn's, IBS, diverticulitis,constipation, diarrhea, you name
it. So common. Well, think aboutit. Look what the gut does. It
absorbs, digest and processesfood. Well, think about a
betrayal. Isn't that difficultto absorb, digest and process
BEATE CHELETTE (07:38):
well. And you know, it's interesting that you
say that when we lost our home,the last six months have been
horrific for my digestion. Imean, I've never even
experienced anything like this.
About a month ago, had to reallysit down and say, Okay, how am I
going to address this? And I didthis with somatic trauma release
and better supplements andreally getting myself my head
(07:59):
around, sort of what's what'sgoing on. But you say getting my
head around it isn't really whatI need to be doing. What should
I be doing? I mean,
Dr. Debi Silber (08:08):
that's a great part of it, but it is a part of
it. That's what happens withwhen there's, there's a shock to
the body, to the mind, to theheart. What we often do is this,
these are the things wetypically do, we will go to a
therapist, right? And here's thething, well meaning therapists,
but if they're not highlyskilled in betrayal, we will
(08:29):
feel heard, validated,understood. We're not an inch
closer to healing, and that'spart of the third discovery, or
we numb ourselves because it'sso painful. So we may run to the
doctor who puts us on a moodstabilizer, anti anxiety
medication. We may use food,drugs, alcohol, work, TV,
(08:49):
anything right to distractourselves that's gonna prevent
us from healing as well. Orwe'll join a support group, some
type of support group, and itusually becomes the Indian awful
club where it's someone sharestheir story, and it's like, Oh,
you think that's bad. This iswhat happened to me. This is
what happened to me. This whathappened to me. And what happens
is we actually sabotage ourhealing, because now we found
(09:12):
our people, and we have this incommon. And if we heal, and if
we if we actually move forward?
Well, what happens to our groupnow? So very specific reasons
why we sabotage ourselves andwhy we stay stuck, but
BEATE CHELETTE (09:31):
so powerful, yeah, I, you know, as you're
saying this, I can't help butthink about as a, as a, you
know, coach, consultant, and Irun a couple groups a lot of
times. You know, the teachingsays you need to stay in
Gestalt, which means you cannotgive anybody advice. You have to
give a relatable example. And Iremember this very vividly. I
(09:54):
was once in a in a group, and Irecognized that I could not.
Stay, because all these Gestaltexperiences that I could access
were all my traumatizingexperiences, and every time I
walked out of that, I felthorrible afterward, and
eventually I had to quit becauseI said I don't need to go
(10:16):
anywhere to re trauma re,traumatize myself over and over
again. So you talk about aframework for healing betrayal.
So let's talk first about whattypes of betrayals are there.
Because maybe people are noteven aware that they carry this
betrayal with
Dr. Debi Silber (10:33):
it. You know, I define betrayal as the breaking
of a spoken or unspoken rule,and every relationship has them.
And the way it works is, themore we trust, the more we
depend on someone, the deeperthe betrayal. So for example, a
child who's completely dependenton their parent, and the parent
does something awful that'sgoing to have a different impact
than, let's say, your co workertaking credit for your idea. You
(10:55):
see, still betrayals, differentlevel of cleanup, but it's
whenever there was the breakingof that spoken or unspoken rule.
Like, let's say at work, youhave your boss, and maybe the
idea was, and the understandingwas, you do this work, you'll
get this raise, and then youdon't, that's a betrayal. Or
you're you're bypassed for thatpromotion and it was promised to
(11:16):
you. That's a betrayal. Or itcould be, when mom with you have
siblings, when mom and dad areolder, we'll take care of them,
and all of a sudden, of asudden, mom and dad are older,
and where are the siblings? Yousee, it's a betrayal, or your
your best friend sharing yoursecret self betrayal. We know
something or someone is not inour best interest, and we still
keep doing it. That's, that's abetrayal as well. So it's, it's
(11:39):
the breaking of that spoken orunspoken rule,
BEATE CHELETTE (11:42):
I think the keeping of the word is really
critical. I mean, in all thespiritual teachings that I've
studied, one of the mostcritical pieces is specifically
the word that you give yourselfwhen you say something and you
don't do it, you're now trainingyourself to not keep your own
(12:02):
word, and I think it has veryintense and lasting
consequences. I talk about thisall the time with my clients. Do
not over promise, only promise,what you can actually
Dr. Debi Silber (12:13):
keep. Yeah, and you know that's such an
important piece when it comes torebuilding trust. Trust is
absolutely shattered withbetrayal and self trust gets
shattered too, because the wayit works is, now we're looking
at the person that we trustedthe most, and the next thing is,
well, I can't trust that person.
Wait a second, where was I? Howdid I not see? How did I not
(12:34):
know? So if I can't trust theperson I trusted the most and I
can't trust myself, how in theworld. Can I trust in anything
and anyone? So we have torebuild trust from the ground
up. And an important piece ofthat is, is rebuilding self
trust, where you say somethingand you do it, and it can be as
simple as I'll drink that glassof water, and you do. I'm going
to make that phone call, and youdo. And what you are doing is
(12:56):
you are showing yourself My wordis law. If I say something I
mean it, I can be trusted, andit's a really helpful and
important step in rebuildingtrust.
BEATE CHELETTE (13:07):
I love that. I so So, so, so, so love that. So
let's talk about your work. NowI come to you and you are you
said your research discovered acompletely new framework for
healing. Tell me about that.
Dr. Debi Silber (13:22):
Yeah. Well, the first discovery was that
betrayal is a different type oftrauma that needs a different
way to heal. Most people justlook at betrayal as as a trauma
like death of a loved one or ordisease or natural disaster. And
the difference is the invitationis to rebuild your life after an
experience like that, but withbetrayal, you have to rebuild
(13:44):
your life, not you don't haveto. That's the invitation
rebuild your life and rebuildyourself. So that betrayal is a
different type of trauma thatneeds a different way to heal.
That was the first discovery.
The second discovery was there'sa collection of symptoms,
physical, mental and emotionalso common to betrayal. It's
known as post betrayal syndrome.
(14:04):
I can share those stats lateron. But to answer your question,
the third discovery was theframework, and this, for me, was
the most exciting of the threediscoveries. And what we learned
was, while we can stay stuck foryears, decades, a lifetime, and
most people do, you said 40years for digestive issues, so
there's still some stucknessthere, right? If we're going to
(14:25):
fully heal, we will move throughFive proven, predictable stages.
And what's even more excitingabout that is we now know what
happens physically, mentally andemotionally at every stage, and
we know how to move from onestage to the next. Healing is
entirely predictable. Happy toshare the stages if you want to
hear
BEATE CHELETTE (14:43):
them, I think, I think we must share them with
the audience.
Dr. Debi Silber (14:48):
Go ahead. All right, because that would have
been an awkward moment if yousaid no, but
BEATE CHELETTE (14:51):
okay, I was like, hey, you know, this was a
great podcast, and goodbye now,and we just leave you hanging
here.
Dr. Debi Silber (14:56):
Okay, so everyone will know exactly what
stage they're in when. I sharethese. Of course, this is all we
do within the PBT Institute.
This is what I certify ourcoaches, PBT coaches in I will
give you a distilled versionhere. So stage one is before it
happens. And if you can imaginefour legs of a table, the four
legs being physical, mental,emotional and spiritual, what I
saw with everybody, me too, wasa heavy lean on the physical and
(15:18):
the mental, thinking and doing.
We're so great at that, and kindof neglecting or ignoring the
emotional and the spiritualfeeling and being well, if a
table only has two legs, it'sgoing to be easy for that table
to topple over. That's us. Stagetwo, shock trauma, D Day,
Discovery day. This is thescariest of all of the stages.
Everybody remembers their D Day.
And this is the breakdown of thebody, the mind and the
(15:42):
worldview. So right here, you'veignited the stress response.
You're now headed for everysingle stress related symptom,
illness, condition, disease.
This is where your gut issuestarted. Right here, your mind
is in a state of overwhelm. Youcannot wrap your mind around
what you just really learnedmakes no sense, and your
(16:05):
worldview has been shattered.
That's your mental model, therules that govern you, that
prevent chaos, don't go there.
Trust this person. These are therules, and in one earth
shattering moment, every ruleyou've been holding on to is no
longer. The bottom has bottomedout, and a new bottom hasn't
been formed yet. This isterrifying, but think about it,
(16:27):
if the bottom were to bottom outon you, what would you do? You'd
grab hold of anything or anyonein order to stay safe and stay
alive. And that's stage three.
Survival Instincts emerge. Thisis the most practical out of all
of the stages. If you can't helpme, Get out of my way. How do I
survive this? Who can I trust?
Where do I go? Here's the trap,though, stage three, by far,
(16:50):
hands down, is the most commonplace. We get stuck. Most of
your clients are right here.
You'll see it. Here's why, oncewe've figured out how to survive
our experience, because it feelsso much better than the shock
and trauma we just came from. Wethink it's good. And because we
don't know there's anywhere elseto go, we don't know there's a
stage four, stage fivetransformation doesn't even
(17:13):
begin until stage four. Butbecause we don't know anything
about that, we plant roots here.
We're not supposed to, but wedon't know that. And four things
start to happen. The first thingis we start getting all of those
small self benefits. We get ourstory like the group you were
in, everybody had their story,right? We love that. We love our
(17:34):
story. We get to be right. Weget sympathy from everyone. We
tell our story to we get someoneto blame. We get a target for
our anger. We don't have tolearn how to trust again, all
these kinds of things. So we'reso unhappy, but these feel like
benefits. So we say we plantdeeper roots. And now the mind
starts doing things like, maybeyou're not that great, maybe
(17:55):
it's you. Maybe you deserved it.
So we plant deeper roots. Andnow, because these are the
thoughts we're thinking. This isthe energy we start putting out.
And like energy attracts likeenergy. So now we start
attracting conversations andrelationships and circumstances
and experiences to prove this iswhere you belong and and here's
where we join that group. Here'swhere we go to therapy. Here's
(18:19):
where, and, like I said, wellmeaning therapist, but you're
you're feeling heard, validated,understood. You're like, why am
I? Like, stuck? It's like crazyglue to stage three. Here's
where you're actually healing,but you will sabotage your
healing because you're afraid tooutgrow your betrayer. It gets
worse, but I'll get you out ofhere, because it feels so
BEATE CHELETTE (18:41):
thank you. Yeah, I can't leave you like, in my
mind, I'm like, going throughthis as you're talking right, of
course. And this is where mostpeople say, right, but because,
uh huh, yeah, that sounds aboutright. Yes, go ahead,
Dr. Debi Silber (18:54):
exactly so, but because it's so miserable. But
you don't know there's anywhereelse to go, right. Here we start
numbing, avoiding, avoidingdistracting. So here's where we
start using the food, drugs,alcohol, work, TV, whatever we
do, it for a day, a week, amonth. Now it's a habit a year,
10 years, 20 years, 40 years.
And I can see someone 40 yearslater and say that digestive
(19:14):
issue, do you think that hasanything to do with your
betrayal? They look at me likeI'm crazy. It happened decades
ago. All we did was putourselves in stage three and
stay there. Does that makesense?
BEATE CHELETTE (19:29):
Yes, I do, because there are no tools at
this stage that are widelyknown. And if you go into
therapy, as you say, a lot ofthe talk therapy just keeps you
there, because you keep talkingabout and your feelings about
that, and then you mount thestory, and what does it mean to
you, and how do you feel aboutit. And then you are listening
(19:52):
to the opposite of what I shouldbe doing. I'm now justifying and
going deeper into my. Like tofeel this particular way
Dr. Debi Silber (20:02):
Exactly. Can I get you into stage four?
BEATE CHELETTE (20:04):
Please go ahead.
I'm I'm ready. We're done withstage three.
Dr. Debi Silber (20:08):
Okay, if, if we're willing. Willingness is a
big word right here. Willing tolet go of our story, grieve,
mourn the loss. A bunch ofthings we need to do we move to
stage four. Stage four isfinding and adjusting to a new
normal. So here's where weacknowledge, I can't change what
happened, but I control what Ido with it. Right there in that
(20:29):
decision, you're turning downthe stress response. You're not
healing just yet, but at leastyou stop the massive damage that
was being created in stages twoand stage three, stage four
feels like if you've ever moved,if you've ever moved to new
house, office, condo, apartment,whatever, your stuff's not
there. It's not cozy yet, butit's like this hopeful
excitement, right? It feels likethat. But think about it, if you
(20:52):
were to move, you don't takeeverything with you. You don't
take those things that don'trepresent who you're now ready
to become same thing here,there's a spot as people move
from stage three to stage four,if your friends weren't there
for you, they're not comingalong. That support group that
was just rehashing everythingyou're done, that therapist,
(21:13):
were you just feeling heard,validated, understood, you're
done? That betrayer who's notchanging you're done. And people
ask me all the time, Dr, Debbie,is it me? Yes, it is. You're
undergoing a transformation, andif they don't rise, they don't
come along. So very, very newspace, very action oriented.
Anyway, when you settle intothis new space, you make it
(21:34):
cozy, you make it kind ofmentally home. You move into the
fifth most beautiful stage, andthis is healing, rebirth and a
new world view. The body startsto heal, self love, self care,
eating, well, exercise. Wedidn't have the bandwidth for
that earlier. Now we do. Themind is healing. We're making
all kinds of new rules, newboundaries based on what we see
so clearly, and we have a newworld view based on everything
(21:57):
we've just been through. And thefour legs of that table in the
beginning, it was all about thephysical and the mental. By this
point, we're solidly groundedbecause we're focusing on the
emotional and the spiritual too.
Those are the five stages Ilove,
BEATE CHELETTE (22:11):
that it's interesting and as an
experience, share. What I havenoticed now going into eight
months after this catastrophe isthat I certainly was numbing.
You know, alcohol helps when youare in a place like this, and a
lot of the stuff now is changingmy meditation practice, my self
(22:34):
care practice, I have givenmyself a lot more grace as to
where I am in my healing and notbeing mad that I just can't
focus sometimes, or I'mincredibly tired, and now I'm
giving myself permission tosleep. And it's simple things
like when you put body lotion onyourself, and one of my clients
(23:00):
had taught me that. She says,one of your self care protocols,
you can see how your love foryourself is on how you apply
body lotion. I'm like, What doyou mean? She says, are you
just, you know, like, rush,rush, rush, rush, rush, rush, or
are you actually taking the timeto feel what your skin feels
like, the nourishing and youmake that a ritual, you know?
Could this be a ritual? And so Ithink, how do you how do you
(23:25):
tell your clients our audience,what are maybe some of the
things that they can dolistening now to this podcast
and say, How do I get myself onthis point of healing? Are there
some rituals we could recommendthem to immediately start on,
Dr. Debi Silber (23:42):
yeah, but before that, I would really
invite them to consider, arethey are they stuck? Because if
you're stuck, no ritual is goingto get you out of that
stuckness, so it'll help. Butthese are four questions that I
invite everybody to write down.
That's my way of saying, writeit down. And these are, this is
how you'll know if you're stuckready. Am I numbing, avoiding
(24:02):
distracting? If so, how likecall yourself on it. You know,
do you? Do you go into thekitchen, you're not the least
bit hungry, and there you areraiding the cabinets. Or are you
do? You go into a room and youput on some music, or a TV,
anything to drown out the soundof your own thoughts, right? The
(24:22):
second question, what am iPretending not to see? It's a
deep question, am i Pretendingnot to see that my relationship
is in trouble? Am I pretendingnot to see I hate my job by
pretending not to see thathealth issue that needs my
attention? Call yourself on it.
Third question, what's lifegoing to look like in five to 10
(24:44):
years if I keep this going playout exactly how you're managing,
not managing, this relationship,business, health issue, five to
10 years, if you were to keepdoing what you're doing or not
doing i. What does that looklike five to 10 years from now?
Right? Like, take a look. Andthe fourth question, what can
(25:06):
life look like in five to 10years if I change now? I'm not
saying change is easy, butchange begins when you tell
yourself the truth. So once yourealize what you're working with
now, your rituals can work somuch better for you.
BEATE CHELETTE (25:21):
Wow, that's beautiful. Yeah. I think this
self awareness. Why are peopleholding on to the story? What is
it about that they
Dr. Debi Silber (25:30):
don't understand that there's
something so much better forthem, the most important people
in my life all betrayed me. Butlook at the story I have now.
1000s of people you know thatare being helped, the the books,
the podcasts, the TEDx talks,the certifications, the right,
the story now is so much better.
But when we don't know there'sanything better, we cling, cling
on to the familiar, known only,only because it's familiar.
(25:54):
That's the only benefit. Is thatit's familiar, just like every
single thing in your life wasonce unfamiliar and had and you
did it, and it's becomefamiliar. This is something
that's familiar, and you'resticking with it only because of
that unfamiliar, known that isso much better. And if you knew
(26:17):
what stages four and five, feltlike I promised you wouldn't
waste a minute in stage three.
BEATE CHELETTE (26:25):
I remember this when I was in my Ayahuasca
journey, and we had really comeup with a story, and I looked at
this from a differentperspective, and then there was
almost this moment of fear tolet the story go, because I had
held on to it for so long, andthat was the meaning that gave
(26:47):
reason on why things were aparticular way. And I remember
thinking, if I let that go, it'slike all of this disappears.
Then what was all of this for?
How do you guide them throughthe fear that the meaning that
their life has had this entiretime suddenly disappears?
Because I think it sends peoplein a tailspin to let that go?
Dr. Debi Silber (27:10):
Oh, absolutely, that's the difference between
resilience and transformation.
I'm going to give you an exampleusing an analogy of a house, and
in my it was in I believe thesecond TEDx talk to you have
post betrayal syndrome. I talkabout this, and imagine an old
house, and imagine the old houseneeds a paint job, and you paint
that's resilience. You'rebringing it back. You're
(27:31):
restoring right? Transformationis a whole different thing. Or
like, imagine it needs a newroof, and you get a roof that's
resilience. Here's here's traumaand transformation. A tornado
comes by and levels the house. Anew paint job is not going to
fix it, and a new roof's notgoing to fix it, right? But
here's the thing, you have everyright to stand there at the lot
where your house wants to say,this is the most horrible thing
(27:52):
that's ever happened, you'd beright. And you can call
everybody over that you know,and say, Isn't this so terrible?
They'd all agree, and you cankick and scream and cry and
mourn until your last breath.
However, should you choose torebuild the house? You don't
have to, but if you choose to,why would you build the same
(28:13):
one? There's nothing there. Whynot give it everything the old
house didn't have? Right? Makeit better, make it more
beautiful. That's theopportunity. After betrayal,
everything has crashed andburned, and what you're doing is
you're bringing all the parts ofyou that you love, and you're
leaving behind everything thatno longer serves so here's the
(28:35):
thing, it's we get to redefineonce everything has broken down,
we don't have to rebuild it thesame way. The beauty is, there's
nothing there to from the old.
We're rebuilding somethingentirely new, and we get to
create something that otherwisewouldn't have had the
opportunity to be created.
(28:56):
That's trauma. Well served.
BEATE CHELETTE (28:58):
I love that. I love that so much. Well, this
has been really powerful.
Sometimes I feel very privilegedthat I can bring people on the
show that helped me myself asI'm as I'm going through,
literally rebuilding off thehouse. It is a redesigning on
what will work better, and it'sjust a painful process. So for
somebody who now goes maybe itis time for me to look into my
(29:21):
own betrayals and let them go.
Where do we send them?
Dr. Debi Silber (29:26):
Thank you.
Everything is at the PBT as inpost betrayal transformation,
the pbtinstitute.com we evenhave programs for the betrayer
too, for the betrayer who blewup their lives and realized they
want to become someone they'reproud of, and they do so
beautifully in our program,separate community, so there's
no triggering, but a separatecurriculum. But they do great.
(29:46):
So we have for the betrayed, forthe betrayer, and, of course,
our certification program.
BEATE CHELETTE (29:53):
Thank you so much. This has been an amazing
episode. I really appreciate youbeing here, and as somebody
who's carried a significantamount of wounds. So I can only
share with our audience today.
If you think there might besomething there, believe it and
do something about it. And withtoday's episode, we've given you
some great ideas on how to goabout it. Dr Debbie, thank you
(30:16):
so much for being on the show.
It's been an amazingconversation, and I hope I get
to see you soon again. Thank youuntil next time and GOODBYE.
That's it for this episode ofthe Business Growth Architect
Show, Founders of the Future, ifyou're done playing small and
ready to build the future onyour terms, subscribe, share and
(30:36):
help us reach more Trailblazerslike you, and if you're serious
about creating, growing andscaling a business that's
aligned with who you are,schedule your uncovery session
at uncoversion.com lead withvision. Move with purpose.
Create your future.
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