November 3, 2025 • 42 mins
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On this week's episode of the Business of Biotech, we're speaking with Bernard Ravina, M.D., CEO at Vima Therapeutics, a company that emerged from stealth in May with $60 million Series A financing to develop an oral candidate for dystonia, a movement disorder. Ravina talks about transitioning from government and academic medicine to industry, partnering with Atlas Ventures and defining the company's thesis, the reasons behind working in stealth mode and when to emerge, and the clinical plan and potential for VIM0423.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ben Comer (00:04):
Welcome back to the Business of Biotech.
I'm Ben Comer, Chief Editor atLife Science Leader, and today
I'm speaking with Bernard RavinaMD, CEO at Vima Therapeutics, a
company that launched fromstealth with a $60 million
Series A this past May.
Vima is focused on neurologicaldiseases, and the company's
(00:24):
first program is an oraltreatment in phase one for
Dystonia, a movement disorder.
Bernard is a Johns Hopkinstrained neurologist who also
holds a master's degree inbiostatistics and epidemiology
from University ofPennsylvania.
After a decade in governmentand academia at the NIH and then
(00:46):
at the University of Rochester,he crossed over into the
biopharmaceutical industry andhas worked at Biogen, Voyager
Therapeutics, Praxis PrecisionMedicine, and as an entrepreneur
in residence at Atlas Venture,which led to Vima's Series A
raise.
Bernard is a first-time CEO atVima, and I'm excited to speak
(01:06):
with him about the formation ofthe company and working in
stealth mode, how Vima chose aninitial product candidate, how
Destonia relates to otherneurological disorders, and his
plans for the company's future.
Thanks so much for being here,Bernard.
Thanks, Beth.
It's great to talk with you.
Thanks for the nice intro.
Bernard Ravina, M.D. (01:24):
I appreciate it.
Ben Comer (01:25):
Absolutely.
I uh I mentioned yourbackground work at the NIH.
Um, would you mind talking alittle bit about what you did
there?
Bernard Ravina, M.D. (01:33):
Yeah, happy to.
So I was fortunate, uh, as youmentioned in your intro, I
finished training.
I specialized neurologymovement disorder uh in
epidemiology and biostatistics.
Then I had this opportunity togo to NIH.
And as you may be familiar, NIHhas two parts.
(01:54):
It's got the intramural whereyou kind of conduct your own
research, then the extramural,which actually does the uh
outside funding of universitiesand helps set up research
priorities.
So uh I had colleagues who hadmoved there from the University
of Pennsylvania, uh seniorcolleagues.
I was a junior guy at the time.
(02:14):
Uh, but I had the chance towork in both those parts of NIH.
Uh and worked in the intramuralside in a very genetics lab uh
with a great mentor named KurtFishband.
Uh and on the kind ofexternal-facing extramural side,
I helped set up uh research andcenters and clinical trials in
(02:36):
Parkinson's.
It was it was a wonderfulexperience.
I was there for about fiveyears.
And I think kind of one of thekey perspectives you get being
at NIH is kind of understandinglike what are the gaps in
research, what are thescientific gaps or the gaps in
infrastructure, and you know,what is the government need to
(02:58):
do?
How can NIH help facilitateprogress in those areas?
Ben Comer (03:04):
Yeah, did that I'm curious if that, you know,
experience in in public healthis something that, you know, if
there are lessons that have kindof carried through your career
since then, or or do you feellike it's more of, you know,
we'll we'll talk a little bitabout um, you know, your your
work at the University ofRochester, but I guess I'm
thinking about moving into theindustry.
(03:24):
I mean, is it something thatthat you know, are there things
you learned at the NIH that havehave stayed with you?
Bernard Ravina, M.D. (03:30):
Yeah, very much so.
Because uh I think the keything that's kind of stayed with
me is that perspective on likewhere are the gaps?
What's what's needed?
Uh, you know, scientifically,clinically, that I think that's
a key perspective coming in theindustry.
Understand what's going on inthe landscape and how that how
(03:51):
you can help uh or build a neworganization or company uh that
can help close those gaps anddevelop new treatments like
that.
Absolutely.
Ben Comer (04:02):
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
Um after you left the NIH, youran a part of the academic
medical center at the Universityof Rochester.
Was that uh similar to the workthat you did at NIH, or was
that something, you know,totally new and different?
Bernard Ravina, M.D. (04:20):
So thematically it was the same.
So I've been you knowinterested in movement disorders
and therapeutics, uh in urologykind of broadly.
That that's kind of the themethat goes through my career,
whether it's uh government,academic, or industry.
But going to the University ofRochester again, I was very
(04:41):
fortunate, wonderful colleagues,great medical center.
And we had a uh a great setupthere where uh our department
was very focused on clinicalresearch.
Uh so we did our own hands-onclinical research with our own
studies, patients uh who wereparticipating from the
community.
But we also had what I kind ofcall an academic uh CRO.
(05:06):
So we helped run studies, youknow, for uh for companies.
We had multiple study groupsthat specialize in different
disease areas, Parkinson's,Huntington's, epilepsy.
And so we would coordinate andorganize and run those studies,
whether it was industry fundedor uh NIH funded or foundation
(05:30):
like the Michael J.
Fox Foundation.
Uh so we had about 75 or 80people involved there.
So that was a great experiencethat kind of bridged that whole
uh world of academic industryand some government funding,
collaborating uh to develop newtherapeutics and run
(05:51):
high-quality trials.
Ben Comer (05:53):
Yeah, and it also, I'm sure, created a kind of
platform or at least built thefundamentals that you would need
to move into industry, which Iwanted to ask you about.
What kind of triggered thatdecision?
What made you decide that youknow it was time to leave the
University of Rochester and headover to Biogen, I think, in in
2010?
Bernard Ravina, M.D. (06:13):
Yeah, that's right.
Um, yeah, like that was a greatsetting.
I got a lot of exposure toindustry.
Uh in the my interest, uh, as Imentioned, kind of carried
through neuroscience,specifically movement disorders,
and developing new therapies.
It's a it was almost a naturalmove because it really is like
(06:35):
the three-legged stool of likeyou know, scientific
breakthroughs in healthcare isis uh is government academia in
industry.
And I kind of knew that if Ireally wanted to focus uh on
therapeutics development, thatI'd move to industry at some
point, um was really at theforefront in neuroscience.
(07:00):
When I like when I was uh amedical student, there were
really very few uh drugs forneurologic diseases.
And I remember when the firstlike interferons came out for
the treatment of uh relapsingremitting MS.
It's like this is this is it,this is the leading edge.
(07:21):
Uh, we're gonna have a lotmore.
Uh and so, yeah, those are agreat place to go for a first
industry job, you know,wonderful colleagues who really
knew uh neuroscience drugdevelopment.
So yeah, it was a a greatinitial step and one that I felt
very comfortable with knowingsome of those people.
Ben Comer (07:41):
Did you was there an appeal to actually see a product
go from the early stages ofclinical research, you know, all
the way into patients?
I mean, you could havecontinued doing clinical, you
know, you talked about having towork with, you know, getting to
work with private industry,with with government, with
foundations conducting clinicalresearch, uh, but it strikes me
(08:02):
as you know the real differencebeing if you're at a company,
you're there all the waythrough, you know, approval,
hopefully approval andcommercialization.
Bernard Ravina, M.D. (08:10):
Yeah, that that that's exactly right, Ben.
As like, so when you're doingit in an academic setting, like
you're collaborating, but youget pieces of it, right?
Right.
So, you know, a company's doingsome things, they're
collaborating with you on somethings.
Exactly to your point, it'slike, want to do it right from
scratch, see all of it and seeit through longitudinally.
(08:33):
I I don't think I appreciated,like, you know, coming from
academics, like how long thattakes, how hard that really is,
and what it looks like, youknow, from inside a company,
from inside a sponsor that'sreally driving that.
But that's exactly theexperience I wanted to get.
Ben Comer (08:50):
Yeah, and then you found found that out firsthand.
You worked as a chief medicalofficer.
You worked in clinicaldevelopment, but you worked as a
chief medical officer at bothuh Voyager and Praxis Precision
Medicines uh before taking theCEO role at at Vima.
Um, what about that transition?
What made you want to go fromyou know a CMO role to um uh you
(09:14):
know a CEO role or uh a rolethat's you know responsible for
for company formation andleadership?
Bernard Ravina, M.D. (09:22):
Yeah.
So you know both those movesgoing from bi-gen and clinical
development to CMO, uh, and thenCMO to CEO, like you learn a
lot uh along the way, right?
And so go from biogen uh to CMOroles, uh going from a kind of
mid-sized company with a lot ofsupport to uh companies that
(09:45):
were really, really interestingthat had programs that I really
wanted to work on, but you helpbuild the infrastructure.
So you're you know, go from asupported environment to one in
which like you're gonna buildit, choose the people, uh you
know, get all the policies,procedures, and practices in
place.
Like that's just kind ofappealing if you like building
(10:07):
things.
Um so I spent about 10 years inthat CMO role, which I think is
one of the best roles inbiotech, like being a CMO,
running the clinical studies,reviewing the data, that's where
the rubber beats the road.
But kind of in that capacity, Ihad the good fortune to work
with, I think it was fourdifferent CEOs, uh, and do two
(10:30):
IPOs.
Um and you just you get to seelike well, the science of the
clinical data are superimportant.
You can't be better than that,but you need everything to come
together.
You know, you know, you need uhto understand the market, you
need to build and support thecompany, you need to fund it.
Um and so I think the thing forme that was motivating was just
(10:55):
uh really in uh I don't know ifenjoying is the right word, but
but really like you know,liking and being intensely
interested in how all that comestogether, and like you just you
synthesize it and yousynchronize your science and
your fundraising and try andkeep those in pace.
So it was that kind of bigpicture.
(11:15):
And I think if you if you likethe big picture, um the this the
CEO role is really um appealingin that one.
Ben Comer (11:24):
Did you know that about yourself, like as far back
as Biogen or maybe at Voyager?
Were you, I mean, at thatpoint, were you looking at those
CEOs that you worked with andstarting to kind of take notes
about things that you know thatworked or didn't work with the
you know kind of secretknowledge, you know, that you
may want to do it yourself oneday, or or or did that come more
(11:45):
recently?
Bernard Ravina, M.D. (11:46):
So so seems to believe my answer,
because I do think there are alot of people who like who did
like think you know they grow upknowing that they want to be a
CEO or something.
For me, not at all the case.
I really liked the clinicalside of things.
And it was just kind of growinginto it, seeing it, and and the
realization that like you know,if you want to own one one
(12:08):
piece of it, like and be able toreally control the direction of
that, you kind of need all ofit to come together.
So it was really it was a muchmore recent thing over the last
few years.
And some of the advice uh I gotfrom you know, really smart,
experienced people was be rare,you know, careful what you wish
for, like especially nowadays.
(12:29):
Like now I look back and Ithink like, well, uh, you know,
I guess I had it pretty good,right?
Exactly.
It's like, yeah, I uh didn'treally need to lose more sleep.
So yeah.
Ben Comer (12:42):
Well, you're a first-time CEO now.
What what has that experiencebeen like so far?
You know, is there well, Iguess what part of the job has
surprised you the most about youknow being in charge of the
whole operation?
Bernard Ravina, M.D. (12:56):
Yeah, uh that's a great question.
I mean, I've been fortunatebecause uh started this company,
incubated it uh with Atlas, andthey have a you know really
well-developed kind of ecosystemand support network.
And uh and so they're reallyhelpful getting a company off
the ground, and they'reobviously very experienced.
(13:16):
Um, I think they that the thingthat was probably predictable,
but maybe surprising for me isjust how much you learn in the
course uh of doing this.
Uh and also just the pointabout uh the people part of it.
It's the clarity, and you youhave it's you know, as the CMO,
(13:39):
you um you know, your team iskind of your team, right?
They're critically oriented,they know what you're doing.
As the CEO, you have a muchmore diverse team.
And your team is uh internaland external in terms of your
communication, and so it's kindof the clarity of the vision,
clarity around what you'retrying to do when you execute,
(14:00):
making sure that differentaudiences kind of all hear the
same thing, uh, and that you setthe right expectation.
So just it's a lot more workthan I expected.
Ben Comer (14:12):
Yeah, uh incubated uh in Atlas Venture.
I was curious how you kind offirst got connected with Atlas
Venture, and um, you know, whatwhat more could you say about
how Vima, you know, came about?
You know, what was the catalystthat kind of triggered it and
made you know, like, this is it,this is the company that you
(14:32):
know I want to start up.
Bernard Ravina, M.D. (14:33):
Yeah, yeah.
So um the it came togetherreally nicely.
I knew I had colleagues here atAtlas, uh Dave Grayzel, one of
the partners, somebody I knowfor a long time.
And we all kind of know eachother through the ecosystem.
Uh, and then just meeting therest of the partnership, it was
Claire was a fit, uh very youknow, straightforward group.
(14:56):
Uh, and then I joined in late22.
Uh, it was fall of 22.
And I I asked myself two keyquestions, uh, which is you
know, wait, where's their whitespace?
Where haven't there been newtherapeutics developed uh in a
while?
Ben Comer (15:13):
And of course, in neurology specifically, sorry to
interrupt you.
Bernard Ravina, M.D. (15:17):
No, no, not at all.
Yeah.
In in neuros specifically, andby you know, my heart beat and
and movement disorders, I focuson dystonia.
And I know those patients thattreated them, uh, and I knew
there wasn't anything new therefor decades.
And so the second question Iasked is well, you know, where
(15:39):
where are there good genetics uhthat can clearly help me get
confidence that we have theright biological target?
And so started diving intoStonian genetics, and we arrived
at uh some mechanisms thatwe'll we'll I'm sure we'll talk
about.
But it was that clarity that uhclinical need got validated
(16:04):
mechanism, uh that reallyresonated with the Atlas team
and later on other investors,and that of course, ability to
you know fill the space there interms of clinical development,
uh, so that we can you knowfulfill the that unmet clinical
need.
Ben Comer (16:21):
I I definitely want to get into um into Vima's lead
um program, clinical program anduh and product candidate that
you're developing.
I just want to ask you know onemore question just about the
startup, which is kind of thethe elements of securing that
$60 million Series A.
You know, the listeners ofbusiness of biotech, a lot of
(16:43):
them are ambitious, you know, umfolks that want to lead
companies or want to grow theirbusiness.
Funding, it's no secret.
It's tough to find for earlystage companies at the moment.
Um, what else could you sayjust about, you know, you you
kind of decided, it sounds likeyou decided on a mechanism, you
decided on a general therapeuticarea.
(17:05):
How how did you make that howdid that funding come in to
actually get things moving?
Bernard Ravina, M.D. (17:11):
Yeah, I mean that's that's one of the
great things about working withuh experienced venture group
like Atlas.
They um, you know, once we hadthe concept that we were talking
about and working, targetingmuscarinic cholinergic receptors
and convinced that was uh asolid mechanism, we did uh we
(17:32):
were able to get seek fundingfrom Atlas, which was uh just a
few million dollars initially,and do some key experiments that
convinced us that this was atractable uh approach that we
were taking.
And then um based on thosedata, uh in the usual materials
(17:53):
you put together, uh, you know,your high-level development
plan, your overall strategy, uh,we went out uh and talked with
uh other investors, veryfortunate.
Um, and uh every company isdifferent in that way, but the
story really resonated withAccess Industries uh and Kanan.
And so they joined Atlas uh inthe $60 million Series A.
(18:17):
And all three are very um youknow sophisticated biotech
investors who have been realpartners, but they also really
understand clinical development.
Uh, and I think given that ourprogram and approach was moving
along very quickly towardsclinic where we are now, that
was really a great fit for allof us.
Ben Comer (18:39):
Do you think it was beneficial for you, uh, you
know, in that phase ofattracting capital, starting the
company, to know thosepatients, those dystopia or uh
um dystonia patients, and beable to kind of talk very
specifically about unmet need?
I mean, was that and I'm justthinking about other leaders and
(19:00):
you know, you're coming from ayou know, an academic and
government public health, aswell as a CMO role.
You know, how helpful, I guess,was that in making the case,
you know, for fundraising, youknow, around this particular
target?
Bernard Ravina, M.D. (19:16):
Yeah, that it's a great question, Ben.
I think the answer is very itwas burdened the alcohol.
You know, there's there hasn'tbeen the reason there's unmet
need is because nobody'sdeveloped therapeutics for
dystonia.
And since nobody's developedtherapeutics, there's some
unknowns.
Like, and so being able tospeak about those patients uh
(19:40):
with real, you know, firsthandunderstanding, I think goes a
long way.
And being able to kind ofenvision and articulate like
this is what we would do, thisis what success looks like.
Uh that that really resonatedin that you know, I think uh
some of those investors who Imentioned, they they've they
really talked about that.
(20:01):
It's that it's the vision uhand uh the the background and
the ability to execute.
Ben Comer (20:09):
Um I want to ask you about your stealth period.
Vima, I mentioned in the intro,emerged from stealth uh in in
May.
You were doing work beforethat, I think going back to 2023
is what you said.
Um we we hear companies, youknow, we hear about companies
emerging from stealth somewhatregularly.
It's not always clear to me, atleast, what the specific
(20:31):
reasons for being in stealthmode are or or for when you
emerge or or don't emerge.
Uh can you talk about Vima'sstealth period a little bit and
just kind of the thedecision-making process for for
when and why to launch publicly?
Bernard Ravina, M.D. (20:48):
Yeah.
It's such a good question.
It's like one of those thingsthat I've I've learned as uh it
and I I never really criticallythought about that topic.
So that kind of came with thework and assumption, and it's
like uh you know, you put thecompany together and then you go
out and tell everybody about itbecause you want it to know.
But you know, you flick thatand it's like, well, why?
(21:10):
What do you need you know, thethe broader public and biotech
ecosystem to know and what?
Uh and so once I startedthinking about that, it's like
we had um we're we're hiring agreat team, uh, largely kind of
from within our venture networkand our own network, so as
(21:31):
people are known to us.
So we didn't need to attracttalent.
We were well funded, so uh, youknow, we weren't uh looking for
new funding or partnerships.
So question really be I once Ithought about it for a while,
it's like, well, you know, weneed the community to engage as
we get closer to phase two, andwe're going to be looking to
(21:55):
partner with the patientcommunity and ask people to
enroll in our studies.
So that that was really um kindof the thinking behind it.
And so that's why we came outof stealth um just a few months
ago.
Ben Comer (22:08):
Yeah, that that makes a lot of sense.
And I I've thought about it inthe past, and I I granted, I'm
not totally clear on why somecompanies come out when they do
or or don't come out uh whenthey do, but it it it seems at
least it seemed to me in thepast likely that there was a
kind of fundraising strategyinvolved with it.
So maybe if you need you knowmoney to make those initial
(22:30):
hires or or do those initialexperiences, then you know you
can't be stealth if you if youwant to bring investors on
board.
So so that that's that's Ithink a part of it or a big part
of it, I would assume.
Bernard Ravina, M.D (22:42):
Absolutely.
That's a big part of it.
It's uh you know, attractingtalent, attracting capital, uh
potential partners.
And but you know, the theother, another reason to kind of
wait on that is the more youknow of your story, uh when
you're telling it, the betteryou can tell that.
Big part of being a CEO iscommunicating clearly.
(23:05):
And it's like, you know, let metell you the story when we're a
little further along.
We know a little bit more aboutit.
Um, but yeah, I think I thinkthose are really the reasons.
Ben Comer (23:13):
Yeah, wait till you have a good story to tell,
right?
What?
Uh let's talk a little bitabout uh VIM 0423.
This is your uh first and leadcandidate develop um development
program.
Um how did you choose thatcandidate uh for your first
development program, Bernard?
And and where did it come from?
Bernard Ravina, M.D. (23:35):
Yeah, so it's a it's a homegrown program.
And uh I'll I'll take a quickstep back.
And so we um got convinced ofthis mechanism that muscarinic
cholinergic receptors werereally the key target in the
stem.
That these patients have neverseen an oral therapeutic.
They can only have brainsurgery or um injections of
(23:59):
toxin to weaken muscle.
Um and uh so we got convincedof the mechanism that it's a
homegrown program.
It's actually it's a smallmolecule approach, it's actually
a combination.
Um and uh the overall goal isthe program is that we know that
muscarinic cholinergicreceptors, antagonizing them in
(24:22):
the brain can work really well.
And historically, there aredrugs for Parkinson's that
target that mechanism, butthey've been very poorly
tolerated, so they get verylittle clinical use.
So the real kind of nextquestion was how do we make that
better?
Uh, how do we make it moretolerable, wider therapeutic
(24:42):
window, be able to drive thepharmacology in the brake uh to
safely get efficacy?
And so we arrived at thiscombination small molecule
approach to do that.
We're gonna talk uh, you know,in the spirit of like uh telling
the story when you know more,we're wrapping up our phase one.
And so we'll be talking a lotmore about specifics around the
(25:05):
mechanism just probably laterthis year, early next year, but
homegrown program uh that reallysolves that very clear clinical
problem.
Ben Comer (25:16):
Got it.
So um the VIM0423, it targetsuh muscarinic, uh cholinergic
receptors in the brain.
Uh, I know there are peoplethat are listening that are
gonna hear muscarinic and thinkof uh Coruna therapeutics
acquired by Bristol MeyerSquibb, you know, for around $13
billion two years ago.
(25:38):
Uh they uh Coruna developed adrug that targets muscarinic
receptors, uh, but as atreatment for schizophrenia, uh
that drug's now approved andcommercialized as Cobenfy by
BMS.
Um is the is the VIM O423mechanism uh similar uh to to
(25:58):
Cobenfy or or different?
And and maybe you can you knowsay a little bit more just about
uh musk um muscarinicreceptors, you know, as a drug
target.
Bernard Ravina, M.D. (26:09):
Yeah, yeah.
It's uh it's a great topic.
So it's we've known aboutmuscarate receptors for a very
long time.
And um, but but there's ahundred years, right?
Ben Comer (26:21):
They were identified a hundred years ago.
Bernard Ravina, M.D. (26:22):
I think, yeah, that's right.
Uh but you know, like a lot ofother targets, like these things
come and go, even modalitiescome and go, and there's been
this incredible renaissance ledin by schizophrenia uh these
developments and schizophrenia.
Uh and so uh our approach isrelated, except it's it's uh
(26:45):
kind of the inverse.
So uh Cobenfy and other drugsuh being developed for
schizophrenia, they agonize uhor enhance activity at
musteranic receptors.
In movement disorders, it's theflip side, whether it's
dystonia or Parkinson's, uh, youantagonize.
(27:05):
Uh so we're looking for centralantagonism in the periphery to
balance that out, uh, to offsetuh symptoms to uh adverse
effects that are known to becaused by agonism in the
periphery.
So um, yeah, these are kind ofmirror images of each other, and
(27:26):
you see that with otherneurotransmitters like dopamine,
um block dopamine as knownantipsychotics, enhancing
dopamine improves movement andParkinson's and other
conditions.
Ben Comer (27:41):
I see.
And you're you're right.
There does seem to be kind ofdifferent mechanisms, different
targets that move in and out ofvogue.
Um with the muscarinicreceptors, is there I'm just
curious if there's any kind ofif there's like a new technology
or some new way to target thesereceptors that have helped uh
(28:02):
enable this, you know,renaissance that that you
mentioned or or not?
Bernard Ravina, M.D. (28:08):
Yeah, it's uh I think it's a couple of
things.
I think one has been justseeing clinical developments
here, and uh knowing that thesedrugs can work, uh, they target
those receptors safely.
Uh so that that's been one.
Uh that's been years in themaking, but I think the other is
the ability to be a little bitmore selective uh in you know
(28:30):
which receptors and where.
Uh so I think that that'swhat's really driving the
enhanced safety, and that's akey, key component of our
thinking and approach.
Got it.
Okay.
Ben Comer (28:43):
I want to uh just uh dig in a little bit on dystonia.
Um uh, you know, I'll have youdescribe the unmet need, but I I
was I'm not sure if there aresubtypes of dystonia or if I I
think there are obviously moresevere cases and and less severe
cases, but uh, you know, whatwould you say about the unmet
need and I guess you know thethe dystonia patient population
(29:07):
broadly?
Bernard Ravina, M.D. (29:08):
Yeah, so dystonia is an involuntary
movement disorder.
It leads to it's driven byabnormal signals in the brain,
which is why we're targetingthose receptors in the brain,
but it shows up as involuntarymuscle contractions.
And those contractions can anddo occur in pretty much every
(29:30):
part of the body.
So people can have uh dystoniain virtually any part of the
body.
Uh tends to happen in kids andkind of young, uh, really young
to adults to midlife is thepeak.
Uh, and it's very disablingbecause these movements are
painful, uh, and they open theyoften worsen as people try and
(29:53):
kind of do voluntary movements.
So uh interfere with theirregular function.
Um So the need there uh is veryclear.
There are a couple ofapproaches to treating it, no
orals as we match it.
People can have deep brainsurgery, which is a kind of
brain surgery with indwellinghardware and stimulators and
(30:15):
stuff.
Ben Comer (30:16):
That would be for the like the most severe cases.
Bernard Ravina, M.D. (30:19):
Severe, yeah.
And of course, most peopledon't want to have that.
Sure.
It's it's so it's uh less thanabout 3% of people have it.
And then the other approach totreating it is repeated
injections of botulinum toxin.
And so that's the same likekind of Botox that people use
for cosmetic purposes.
And headaches now, too, right?
(30:40):
And headaches.
That's right.
Uh and actually it can workwell.
Uh, but here you're injectingit into muscles to weaken them
versus treating the underlyingcause.
And it can work well in somepeople, but for a lot of people,
it's not enough for a kid towidespread injections across
multiple areas of the body.
(31:01):
So, you know, our our beliefand patient community and
clinical community clearlysupport this is that for the
about 160,000 people uh who havedystonia and no other
neurologic conditions, theywould uh choose an oral
therapeutic before surgery orrepeated injections.
Ben Comer (31:23):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I'm also curious if, youknow, in thinking through the
launch of this company, gettingstarted, conducting initial
experiments, did you find uh,you know, this VIM 0423
candidate and then do some workand figure out kind of like what
indication it might work bestin?
(31:45):
Or did you land on this umdystonia and then go out and
find or or produce or you know,or or invent, you know, uh a
drug that could treat that?
How did that work?
Bernard Ravina, M.D. (31:57):
Yeah, yeah.
We went backwards from uh oryou know, I don't know which
which way is forward, which wayis backwards.
So we went from you knowclinical and biological
understanding to go find uhcandidates and develop a drug
that would work for that.
So we understood the biologyand then to you know how are
(32:19):
developing VIMO423 to addressthat versus drug, where does
this fit?
And one of the really importantthings we kind of figured out
along the way is you you asked,are all these dystonias one
thing or are they different?
We realized there are geneticdystonias, uh, there are
(32:39):
sporadic, no known cause.
And then there are dystoniasthat occur in the setting of
other neurologic disorders, likeParkinson's or children with
cerebral palsy.
What we realize is the biologyand the role of muscaretic
cholinergic receptors are verysimilar across those.
So the the implication is youknow, understanding that
(33:03):
biology, one approach that'swell tolerated, where you can
really drive the doses, couldtreat all of those.
So we start with the 160,000people who have isolated
dystonia, um, but we hope tobranch out to uh dystonian
Parkinson's, cerebral palsy, andother other areas.
Ben Comer (33:25):
Do you think the the the muscarinic receptors are um
you know a a good potential foryou know other neurological
conditions as well, you know,beyond uh dystonia?
Do you have you know plans tokind of expand out in the
category with a similar targetor no?
Bernard Ravina, M.D. (33:43):
Yeah, well, there's uh there's
definitely a role uh in in otherclinical areas like tremor, uh
tremor in the setting ofParkinson's.
Um so I I think as we're seeingin psychiatry like started
schizophrenia, moving toAlzheimer's and other areas,
(34:06):
we'll we'll see this grow as weget more you know clinical
validation and further indevelopment.
Ben Comer (34:12):
Yeah, I I also wanted to ask just uh kind of about
your uh clinical strategy.
Well, first you're you're whendo you anticipate going into
your first human clinicaltrials?
Bernard Ravina, M.D. (34:23):
Uh right around the end of the year.
Uh we're actually we'recompleting phase one now.
So we should have that done bythe end of the year.
And then we'll go to phase twoin isolated Dystonia um by
around the end of the year,early next year.
Ben Comer (34:41):
Okay.
And then what's your um what doyou anticipate your your kind
of pipeline looking like in a Imean, what are you gonna pursue
this candidate kind of up untilthe late stages of of clinical
development?
Focus all your energy on that.
Do you anticipate starting upnew programs with either other
molecules or or additionalindications?
(35:02):
How are you thinking about thatat this point?
Bernard Ravina, M.D. (35:04):
Yeah, really good question.
I think uh it's something weyou know, I we as a team think
about a lot.
Like we're very excited aboutthe MO4 and moving this into
phase two.
Opportunity to be the firstoral.
As we understand more about thebiology and kind of the
clinical relevance that you aregetting at here, we'll we'll
(35:26):
hopefully unlock uh you knowmore potential programs and
applications.
But that you know, that remainsuh to be seen, and we'll talk
about that more in the future.
Right.
Okay.
Ben Comer (35:38):
Um what are your Bernard, what are your top
priorities for the next uh let'ssay 12 months?
Uh uh are there, you know, youmentioned getting into the
clinic.
I assume that's a key, a keymilestone that you're working
toward right now.
Are there are there any otheruh priorities that you would
mention um uh clinically or youknow in terms of business
(35:59):
strategy or fundraising?
Bernard Ravina, M.D. (36:01):
Yeah, we're we're very much focused on
clinical execution.
So uh wrapping up phase one, uhmoving into phase two.
Really, this is the first oraldrug development program in uh
dystonia.
Uh so you know, everything elsehas kind of been devices
injectables.
(36:21):
So um executing here,partnering with the patient
community, um, to you know,really support participation,
support our uh understanding ofhow clinical trials work, uh,
and setting expectations there.
That that's really what we'refocused on.
(36:41):
We've got great investors whoare supporting us through uh
phase two readout.
And um, yeah, and then we'llwe'll see what's next after
that.
Ben Comer (36:51):
All right, got it.
And well, let me ask this.
Uh in terms of a lot, you know,a fate, let's just say a phase
three trial, given you know whatyou know about the the dystonia
population, like how long howlarge do you think, and how long
of a trial, but how large of atrial do you think that would
need to be in phase three?
Bernard Ravina, M.D. (37:10):
Yeah, so one one of the nice things uh
that's great for drugdevelopment about uh this
approach in Dystonia is you cansee treatment benefit in just a
few months and kind of get amaximal treatment uh benefit we
expect in you know three to fourmonths.
The trials aren't very long.
(37:30):
So it's recruitment time uhfollowed by you know four months
on drug.
Uh it's a uh sample sizes.
We'll be talking more about thethe phase two and and uh future
phase threes, but these aren'thuge studies, and even phase
threes have like with the toxinshave typically been around the
(37:54):
200 patient range.
So these are manageable, nottoo long clinical development
studies, unlike diseasemodification or you know,
looking for you know, rate ofdecline in Alzheimer's disease.
Those are those arechallenging, longer studies to
conduct.
Ben Comer (38:12):
Yeah, and I I realize it's early, uh early days uh in
the development of thisproduct, but do you have a I
assume that it will beadministered chronically for
patients?
Is that right?
Do you have a sense of likewhat the dosing will look like
yet?
That's right.
Bernard Ravina, M.D. (38:27):
Yeah, we expect this to be you know once
a day dosing and it chronic likebecause you want to you know
keep the drug on the receptorsand keep that treatment effect
going.
Got it.
Okay.
Ben Comer (38:40):
Um, my final question for you, uh, Bernard, is there
any advice that you'd like togive to listeners who are
perhaps working in academia, butmaybe you know, considering a
jump into the life scienceindustry, or or maybe, you know,
they have a a really greatinvention or something that
they're interested in inacademia that they want to form
(39:00):
a company around, you know, uhwhat would you tell them?
Bernard Ravina, M.D. (39:04):
Yeah, so uh it's interesting.
A lot a lot of my colleaguesfrom academics are are
interested in an industry.
And uh, you know, the the thingI tell them, I really like it.
There's a learning curve.
I think a couple of things is,you know, for kind of younger
researchers, is like, you know,complete your training, really
(39:26):
have like a body of knowledge,kind of skill set that you can
help contribute and plug in.
Uh, and then you'll, you know,you'll grow once you get into an
industry role and you can kindof differentiate, learn new
things there.
But I think it's reallyimportant that, especially on
the clinical research side, tohave a strong skill set coming
in.
Uh, and then the other thingthat I I uh tell uh colleagues
(39:51):
and people who are interested inmoving into industry is culture
really matters.
Uh like you know, if you'reworking at one academic medical
big academic medical center,Hopkins and Harvard are probably
more similar than different.
But you know, company tocompany, you know, little
startup, mid-sized company,those are those are very
(40:12):
different.
So really, you know, really payattention to culture and
colleagues.
Ben Comer (40:17):
Yeah, well, that that makes me want to ask uh uh an
additional last question, ifit's okay, uh, which is you
know, you talked about your umthat you like to build things,
you're you're building a brandnew company, you've made some of
your, you know, your earlyhires.
What what is your approach toto finding people to that you're
that you want to work with,that you want to hire?
Um obviously you're looking forreally talented people, you
(40:41):
know, that that can bring, youknow, perhaps a skill that that
isn't in the company yet.
But is there anything else youwould say uh everybody wants
good people to work at theircompany?
What is there anything that youwould say specifically about
kind of what you look for inwhether it's you know an
executive team or or just anyonethat you're hiring to come work
(41:02):
at Vima?
Bernard Ravina, M.D. (41:04):
Yeah, yeah, and it's it's right.
Choosing our colleagues is oneof the hardest things we do.
Like we're not that good at it,right?
Like interview people, like theyou know, predictive value
isn't that great.
So what one of the things we'veemphasized, we're small, so
it's easier, uh, but is kind ofwithin that work, you know,
(41:25):
people we know, or somebody elsewe, you know, a colleague of
ours has worked with them andlike we know their style.
And I think the kind of numberone thing I want um is the focus
on the the work and the purposein a low ego kind of
environment, like focus ongetting it right, not being
(41:48):
right.
Um, and so you can get somevery high-drive people who
really want to look.
It's great.
Um, but uh uh our our team inparticular really likes to focus
on collaboration,understanding, and getting it
right.
Ben Comer (42:05):
Bernard, thank you so much for coming on the show.
Oh, it's been a pleasure.
Really appreciate it talkingwith it.
We've been speaking withBernard Ravina, CEO at Vima
Therapeutics.
I'm Ben Comer, and you've justlistened to the Business of
Biotech.
Find us and subscribe anywhereyou listen to podcasts, and be
sure to check out our new weeklyvideo cast of these
(42:26):
conversations every Monday underthe Business of Biotech tab at
life scienceleader.com.
We'll see you next week, andthanks as always for listening.
Welcome back to the Business of Biotech.
I'm Ben Comer, Chief Editor atLife Science Leader, and today
I'm speaking with Bernard RavinaMD, CEO at Vima Therapeutics, a
company that launched fromstealth with a $60 million
Series A this past May.
Vima is focused on neurologicaldiseases, and the company's
(00:24):
first program is an oraltreatment in phase one for
Dystonia, a movement disorder.
Bernard is a Johns Hopkinstrained neurologist who also
holds a master's degree inbiostatistics and epidemiology
from University ofPennsylvania.
After a decade in governmentand academia at the NIH and then
(00:46):
at the University of Rochester,he crossed over into the
biopharmaceutical industry andhas worked at Biogen, Voyager
Therapeutics, Praxis PrecisionMedicine, and as an entrepreneur
in residence at Atlas Venture,which led to Vima's Series A
raise.
Bernard is a first-time CEO atVima, and I'm excited to speak
(01:06):
with him about the formation ofthe company and working in
stealth mode, how Vima chose aninitial product candidate, how
Destonia relates to otherneurological disorders, and his
plans for the company's future.
Thanks so much for being here,Bernard.
Thanks, Beth.
It's great to talk with you.
Thanks for the nice intro.
Bernard Ravina, M.D. (01:24):
I appreciate it.
Ben Comer (01:25):
Absolutely.
I uh I mentioned yourbackground work at the NIH.
Um, would you mind talking alittle bit about what you did
there?
Bernard Ravina, M.D. (01:33):
Yeah, happy to.
So I was fortunate, uh, as youmentioned in your intro, I
finished training.
I specialized neurologymovement disorder uh in
epidemiology and biostatistics.
Then I had this opportunity togo to NIH.
And as you may be familiar, NIHhas two parts.
(01:54):
It's got the intramural whereyou kind of conduct your own
research, then the extramural,which actually does the uh
outside funding of universitiesand helps set up research
priorities.
So uh I had colleagues who hadmoved there from the University
of Pennsylvania, uh seniorcolleagues.
I was a junior guy at the time.
(02:14):
Uh, but I had the chance towork in both those parts of NIH.
Uh and worked in the intramuralside in a very genetics lab uh
with a great mentor named KurtFishband.
Uh and on the kind ofexternal-facing extramural side,
I helped set up uh research andcenters and clinical trials in
(02:36):
Parkinson's.
It was it was a wonderfulexperience.
I was there for about fiveyears.
And I think kind of one of thekey perspectives you get being
at NIH is kind of understandinglike what are the gaps in
research, what are thescientific gaps or the gaps in
infrastructure, and you know,what is the government need to
(02:58):
do?
How can NIH help facilitateprogress in those areas?
Ben Comer (03:04):
Yeah, did that I'm curious if that, you know,
experience in in public healthis something that, you know, if
there are lessons that have kindof carried through your career
since then, or or do you feellike it's more of, you know,
we'll we'll talk a little bitabout um, you know, your your
work at the University ofRochester, but I guess I'm
thinking about moving into theindustry.
(03:24):
I mean, is it something thatthat you know, are there things
you learned at the NIH that havehave stayed with you?
Bernard Ravina, M.D. (03:30):
Yeah, very much so.
Because uh I think the keything that's kind of stayed with
me is that perspective on likewhere are the gaps?
What's what's needed?
Uh, you know, scientifically,clinically, that I think that's
a key perspective coming in theindustry.
Understand what's going on inthe landscape and how that how
(03:51):
you can help uh or build a neworganization or company uh that
can help close those gaps anddevelop new treatments like
that.
Absolutely.
Ben Comer (04:02):
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
Um after you left the NIH, youran a part of the academic
medical center at the Universityof Rochester.
Was that uh similar to the workthat you did at NIH, or was
that something, you know,totally new and different?
Bernard Ravina, M.D. (04:20):
So thematically it was the same.
So I've been you knowinterested in movement disorders
and therapeutics, uh in urologykind of broadly.
That that's kind of the themethat goes through my career,
whether it's uh government,academic, or industry.
But going to the University ofRochester again, I was very
(04:41):
fortunate, wonderful colleagues,great medical center.
And we had a uh a great setupthere where uh our department
was very focused on clinicalresearch.
Uh so we did our own hands-onclinical research with our own
studies, patients uh who wereparticipating from the
community.
But we also had what I kind ofcall an academic uh CRO.
(05:06):
So we helped run studies, youknow, for uh for companies.
We had multiple study groupsthat specialize in different
disease areas, Parkinson's,Huntington's, epilepsy.
And so we would coordinate andorganize and run those studies,
whether it was industry fundedor uh NIH funded or foundation
(05:30):
like the Michael J.
Fox Foundation.
Uh so we had about 75 or 80people involved there.
So that was a great experiencethat kind of bridged that whole
uh world of academic industryand some government funding,
collaborating uh to develop newtherapeutics and run
(05:51):
high-quality trials.
Ben Comer (05:53):
Yeah, and it also, I'm sure, created a kind of
platform or at least built thefundamentals that you would need
to move into industry, which Iwanted to ask you about.
What kind of triggered thatdecision?
What made you decide that youknow it was time to leave the
University of Rochester and headover to Biogen, I think, in in
2010?
Bernard Ravina, M.D. (06:13):
Yeah, that's right.
Um, yeah, like that was a greatsetting.
I got a lot of exposure toindustry.
Uh in the my interest, uh, as Imentioned, kind of carried
through neuroscience,specifically movement disorders,
and developing new therapies.
It's a it was almost a naturalmove because it really is like
(06:35):
the three-legged stool of likeyou know, scientific
breakthroughs in healthcare isis uh is government academia in
industry.
And I kind of knew that if Ireally wanted to focus uh on
therapeutics development, thatI'd move to industry at some
point, um was really at theforefront in neuroscience.
(07:00):
When I like when I was uh amedical student, there were
really very few uh drugs forneurologic diseases.
And I remember when the firstlike interferons came out for
the treatment of uh relapsingremitting MS.
It's like this is this is it,this is the leading edge.
(07:21):
Uh, we're gonna have a lotmore.
Uh and so, yeah, those are agreat place to go for a first
industry job, you know,wonderful colleagues who really
knew uh neuroscience drugdevelopment.
So yeah, it was a a greatinitial step and one that I felt
very comfortable with knowingsome of those people.
Ben Comer (07:41):
Did you was there an appeal to actually see a product
go from the early stages ofclinical research, you know, all
the way into patients?
I mean, you could havecontinued doing clinical, you
know, you talked about having towork with, you know, getting to
work with private industry,with with government, with
foundations conducting clinicalresearch, uh, but it strikes me
(08:02):
as you know the real differencebeing if you're at a company,
you're there all the waythrough, you know, approval,
hopefully approval andcommercialization.
Bernard Ravina, M.D. (08:10):
Yeah, that that that's exactly right, Ben.
As like, so when you're doingit in an academic setting, like
you're collaborating, but youget pieces of it, right?
Right.
So, you know, a company's doingsome things, they're
collaborating with you on somethings.
Exactly to your point, it'slike, want to do it right from
scratch, see all of it and seeit through longitudinally.
(08:33):
I I don't think I appreciated,like, you know, coming from
academics, like how long thattakes, how hard that really is,
and what it looks like, youknow, from inside a company,
from inside a sponsor that'sreally driving that.
But that's exactly theexperience I wanted to get.
Ben Comer (08:50):
Yeah, and then you found found that out firsthand.
You worked as a chief medicalofficer.
You worked in clinicaldevelopment, but you worked as a
chief medical officer at bothuh Voyager and Praxis Precision
Medicines uh before taking theCEO role at at Vima.
Um, what about that transition?
What made you want to go fromyou know a CMO role to um uh you
(09:14):
know a CEO role or uh a rolethat's you know responsible for
for company formation andleadership?
Bernard Ravina, M.D. (09:22):
Yeah.
So you know both those movesgoing from bi-gen and clinical
development to CMO, uh, and thenCMO to CEO, like you learn a
lot uh along the way, right?
And so go from biogen uh to CMOroles, uh going from a kind of
mid-sized company with a lot ofsupport to uh companies that
(09:45):
were really, really interestingthat had programs that I really
wanted to work on, but you helpbuild the infrastructure.
So you're you know, go from asupported environment to one in
which like you're gonna buildit, choose the people, uh you
know, get all the policies,procedures, and practices in
place.
Like that's just kind ofappealing if you like building
(10:07):
things.
Um so I spent about 10 years inthat CMO role, which I think is
one of the best roles inbiotech, like being a CMO,
running the clinical studies,reviewing the data, that's where
the rubber beats the road.
But kind of in that capacity, Ihad the good fortune to work
with, I think it was fourdifferent CEOs, uh, and do two
(10:30):
IPOs.
Um and you just you get to seelike well, the science of the
clinical data are superimportant.
You can't be better than that,but you need everything to come
together.
You know, you know, you need uhto understand the market, you
need to build and support thecompany, you need to fund it.
Um and so I think the thing forme that was motivating was just
(10:55):
uh really in uh I don't know ifenjoying is the right word, but
but really like you know,liking and being intensely
interested in how all that comestogether, and like you just you
synthesize it and yousynchronize your science and
your fundraising and try andkeep those in pace.
So it was that kind of bigpicture.
(11:15):
And I think if you if you likethe big picture, um the this the
CEO role is really um appealingin that one.
Ben Comer (11:24):
Did you know that about yourself, like as far back
as Biogen or maybe at Voyager?
Were you, I mean, at thatpoint, were you looking at those
CEOs that you worked with andstarting to kind of take notes
about things that you know thatworked or didn't work with the
you know kind of secretknowledge, you know, that you
may want to do it yourself oneday, or or or did that come more
(11:45):
recently?
Bernard Ravina, M.D. (11:46):
So so seems to believe my answer,
because I do think there are alot of people who like who did
like think you know they grow upknowing that they want to be a
CEO or something.
For me, not at all the case.
I really liked the clinicalside of things.
And it was just kind of growinginto it, seeing it, and and the
realization that like you know,if you want to own one one
(12:08):
piece of it, like and be able toreally control the direction of
that, you kind of need all ofit to come together.
So it was really it was a muchmore recent thing over the last
few years.
And some of the advice uh I gotfrom you know, really smart,
experienced people was be rare,you know, careful what you wish
for, like especially nowadays.
(12:29):
Like now I look back and Ithink like, well, uh, you know,
I guess I had it pretty good,right?
Exactly.
It's like, yeah, I uh didn'treally need to lose more sleep.
So yeah.
Ben Comer (12:42):
Well, you're a first-time CEO now.
What what has that experiencebeen like so far?
You know, is there well, Iguess what part of the job has
surprised you the most about youknow being in charge of the
whole operation?
Bernard Ravina, M.D. (12:56):
Yeah, uh that's a great question.
I mean, I've been fortunatebecause uh started this company,
incubated it uh with Atlas, andthey have a you know really
well-developed kind of ecosystemand support network.
And uh and so they're reallyhelpful getting a company off
the ground, and they'reobviously very experienced.
(13:16):
Um, I think they that the thingthat was probably predictable,
but maybe surprising for me isjust how much you learn in the
course uh of doing this.
Uh and also just the pointabout uh the people part of it.
It's the clarity, and you youhave it's you know, as the CMO,
(13:39):
you um you know, your team iskind of your team, right?
They're critically oriented,they know what you're doing.
As the CEO, you have a muchmore diverse team.
And your team is uh internaland external in terms of your
communication, and so it's kindof the clarity of the vision,
clarity around what you'retrying to do when you execute,
(14:00):
making sure that differentaudiences kind of all hear the
same thing, uh, and that you setthe right expectation.
So just it's a lot more workthan I expected.
Ben Comer (14:12):
Yeah, uh incubated uh in Atlas Venture.
I was curious how you kind offirst got connected with Atlas
Venture, and um, you know, whatwhat more could you say about
how Vima, you know, came about?
You know, what was the catalystthat kind of triggered it and
made you know, like, this is it,this is the company that you
(14:32):
know I want to start up.
Bernard Ravina, M.D. (14:33):
Yeah, yeah.
So um the it came togetherreally nicely.
I knew I had colleagues here atAtlas, uh Dave Grayzel, one of
the partners, somebody I knowfor a long time.
And we all kind of know eachother through the ecosystem.
Uh, and then just meeting therest of the partnership, it was
Claire was a fit, uh very youknow, straightforward group.
(14:56):
Uh, and then I joined in late22.
Uh, it was fall of 22.
And I I asked myself two keyquestions, uh, which is you
know, wait, where's their whitespace?
Where haven't there been newtherapeutics developed uh in a
while?
Ben Comer (15:13):
And of course, in neurology specifically, sorry to
interrupt you.
Bernard Ravina, M.D. (15:17):
No, no, not at all.
Yeah.
In in neuros specifically, andby you know, my heart beat and
and movement disorders, I focuson dystonia.
And I know those patients thattreated them, uh, and I knew
there wasn't anything new therefor decades.
And so the second question Iasked is well, you know, where
(15:39):
where are there good genetics uhthat can clearly help me get
confidence that we have theright biological target?
And so started diving intoStonian genetics, and we arrived
at uh some mechanisms thatwe'll we'll I'm sure we'll talk
about.
But it was that clarity that uhclinical need got validated
(16:04):
mechanism, uh that reallyresonated with the Atlas team
and later on other investors,and that of course, ability to
you know fill the space there interms of clinical development,
uh, so that we can you knowfulfill the that unmet clinical
need.
Ben Comer (16:21):
I I definitely want to get into um into Vima's lead
um program, clinical program anduh and product candidate that
you're developing.
I just want to ask you know onemore question just about the
startup, which is kind of thethe elements of securing that
$60 million Series A.
You know, the listeners ofbusiness of biotech, a lot of
(16:43):
them are ambitious, you know, umfolks that want to lead
companies or want to grow theirbusiness.
Funding, it's no secret.
It's tough to find for earlystage companies at the moment.
Um, what else could you sayjust about, you know, you you
kind of decided, it sounds likeyou decided on a mechanism, you
decided on a general therapeuticarea.
(17:05):
How how did you make that howdid that funding come in to
actually get things moving?
Bernard Ravina, M.D. (17:11):
Yeah, I mean that's that's one of the
great things about working withuh experienced venture group
like Atlas.
They um, you know, once we hadthe concept that we were talking
about and working, targetingmuscarinic cholinergic receptors
and convinced that was uh asolid mechanism, we did uh we
(17:32):
were able to get seek fundingfrom Atlas, which was uh just a
few million dollars initially,and do some key experiments that
convinced us that this was atractable uh approach that we
were taking.
And then um based on thosedata, uh in the usual materials
(17:53):
you put together, uh, you know,your high-level development
plan, your overall strategy, uh,we went out uh and talked with
uh other investors, veryfortunate.
Um, and uh every company isdifferent in that way, but the
story really resonated withAccess Industries uh and Kanan.
And so they joined Atlas uh inthe $60 million Series A.
(18:17):
And all three are very um youknow sophisticated biotech
investors who have been realpartners, but they also really
understand clinical development.
Uh, and I think given that ourprogram and approach was moving
along very quickly towardsclinic where we are now, that
was really a great fit for allof us.
Ben Comer (18:39):
Do you think it was beneficial for you, uh, you
know, in that phase ofattracting capital, starting the
company, to know thosepatients, those dystopia or uh
um dystonia patients, and beable to kind of talk very
specifically about unmet need?
I mean, was that and I'm justthinking about other leaders and
(19:00):
you know, you're coming from ayou know, an academic and
government public health, aswell as a CMO role.
You know, how helpful, I guess,was that in making the case,
you know, for fundraising, youknow, around this particular
target?
Bernard Ravina, M.D. (19:16):
Yeah, that it's a great question, Ben.
I think the answer is very itwas burdened the alcohol.
You know, there's there hasn'tbeen the reason there's unmet
need is because nobody'sdeveloped therapeutics for
dystonia.
And since nobody's developedtherapeutics, there's some
unknowns.
Like, and so being able tospeak about those patients uh
(19:40):
with real, you know, firsthandunderstanding, I think goes a
long way.
And being able to kind ofenvision and articulate like
this is what we would do, thisis what success looks like.
Uh that that really resonatedin that you know, I think uh
some of those investors who Imentioned, they they've they
really talked about that.
(20:01):
It's that it's the vision uhand uh the the background and
the ability to execute.
Ben Comer (20:09):
Um I want to ask you about your stealth period.
Vima, I mentioned in the intro,emerged from stealth uh in in
May.
You were doing work beforethat, I think going back to 2023
is what you said.
Um we we hear companies, youknow, we hear about companies
emerging from stealth somewhatregularly.
It's not always clear to me, atleast, what the specific
(20:31):
reasons for being in stealthmode are or or for when you
emerge or or don't emerge.
Uh can you talk about Vima'sstealth period a little bit and
just kind of the thedecision-making process for for
when and why to launch publicly?
Bernard Ravina, M.D. (20:48):
Yeah.
It's such a good question.
It's like one of those thingsthat I've I've learned as uh it
and I I never really criticallythought about that topic.
So that kind of came with thework and assumption, and it's
like uh you know, you put thecompany together and then you go
out and tell everybody about itbecause you want it to know.
But you know, you flick thatand it's like, well, why?
(21:10):
What do you need you know, thethe broader public and biotech
ecosystem to know and what?
Uh and so once I startedthinking about that, it's like
we had um we're we're hiring agreat team, uh, largely kind of
from within our venture networkand our own network, so as
(21:31):
people are known to us.
So we didn't need to attracttalent.
We were well funded, so uh, youknow, we weren't uh looking for
new funding or partnerships.
So question really be I once Ithought about it for a while,
it's like, well, you know, weneed the community to engage as
we get closer to phase two, andwe're going to be looking to
(21:55):
partner with the patientcommunity and ask people to
enroll in our studies.
So that that was really um kindof the thinking behind it.
And so that's why we came outof stealth um just a few months
ago.
Ben Comer (22:08):
Yeah, that that makes a lot of sense.
And I I've thought about it inthe past, and I I granted, I'm
not totally clear on why somecompanies come out when they do
or or don't come out uh whenthey do, but it it it seems at
least it seemed to me in thepast likely that there was a
kind of fundraising strategyinvolved with it.
So maybe if you need you knowmoney to make those initial
(22:30):
hires or or do those initialexperiences, then you know you
can't be stealth if you if youwant to bring investors on
board.
So so that that's that's Ithink a part of it or a big part
of it, I would assume.
Bernard Ravina, M.D (22:42):
Absolutely.
That's a big part of it.
It's uh you know, attractingtalent, attracting capital, uh
potential partners.
And but you know, the theother, another reason to kind of
wait on that is the more youknow of your story, uh when
you're telling it, the betteryou can tell that.
Big part of being a CEO iscommunicating clearly.
(23:05):
And it's like, you know, let metell you the story when we're a
little further along.
We know a little bit more aboutit.
Um, but yeah, I think I thinkthose are really the reasons.
Ben Comer (23:13):
Yeah, wait till you have a good story to tell,
right?
What?
Uh let's talk a little bitabout uh VIM 0423.
This is your uh first and leadcandidate develop um development
program.
Um how did you choose thatcandidate uh for your first
development program, Bernard?
And and where did it come from?
Bernard Ravina, M.D. (23:35):
Yeah, so it's a it's a homegrown program.
And uh I'll I'll take a quickstep back.
And so we um got convinced ofthis mechanism that muscarinic
cholinergic receptors werereally the key target in the
stem.
That these patients have neverseen an oral therapeutic.
They can only have brainsurgery or um injections of
(23:59):
toxin to weaken muscle.
Um and uh so we got convincedof the mechanism that it's a
homegrown program.
It's actually it's a smallmolecule approach, it's actually
a combination.
Um and uh the overall goal isthe program is that we know that
muscarinic cholinergicreceptors, antagonizing them in
(24:22):
the brain can work really well.
And historically, there aredrugs for Parkinson's that
target that mechanism, butthey've been very poorly
tolerated, so they get verylittle clinical use.
So the real kind of nextquestion was how do we make that
better?
Uh, how do we make it moretolerable, wider therapeutic
(24:42):
window, be able to drive thepharmacology in the brake uh to
safely get efficacy?
And so we arrived at thiscombination small molecule
approach to do that.
We're gonna talk uh, you know,in the spirit of like uh telling
the story when you know more,we're wrapping up our phase one.
And so we'll be talking a lotmore about specifics around the
(25:05):
mechanism just probably laterthis year, early next year, but
homegrown program uh that reallysolves that very clear clinical
problem.
Ben Comer (25:16):
Got it.
So um the VIM0423, it targetsuh muscarinic, uh cholinergic
receptors in the brain.
Uh, I know there are peoplethat are listening that are
gonna hear muscarinic and thinkof uh Coruna therapeutics
acquired by Bristol MeyerSquibb, you know, for around $13
billion two years ago.
(25:38):
Uh they uh Coruna developed adrug that targets muscarinic
receptors, uh, but as atreatment for schizophrenia, uh
that drug's now approved andcommercialized as Cobenfy by
BMS.
Um is the is the VIM O423mechanism uh similar uh to to
(25:58):
Cobenfy or or different?
And and maybe you can you knowsay a little bit more just about
uh musk um muscarinicreceptors, you know, as a drug
target.
Bernard Ravina, M.D. (26:09):
Yeah, yeah.
It's uh it's a great topic.
So it's we've known aboutmuscarate receptors for a very
long time.
And um, but but there's ahundred years, right?
Ben Comer (26:21):
They were identified a hundred years ago.
Bernard Ravina, M.D. (26:22):
I think, yeah, that's right.
Uh but you know, like a lot ofother targets, like these things
come and go, even modalitiescome and go, and there's been
this incredible renaissance ledin by schizophrenia uh these
developments and schizophrenia.
Uh and so uh our approach isrelated, except it's it's uh
(26:45):
kind of the inverse.
So uh Cobenfy and other drugsuh being developed for
schizophrenia, they agonize uhor enhance activity at
musteranic receptors.
In movement disorders, it's theflip side, whether it's
dystonia or Parkinson's, uh, youantagonize.
(27:05):
Uh so we're looking for centralantagonism in the periphery to
balance that out, uh, to offsetuh symptoms to uh adverse
effects that are known to becaused by agonism in the
periphery.
So um, yeah, these are kind ofmirror images of each other, and
(27:26):
you see that with otherneurotransmitters like dopamine,
um block dopamine as knownantipsychotics, enhancing
dopamine improves movement andParkinson's and other
conditions.
Ben Comer (27:41):
I see.
And you're you're right.
There does seem to be kind ofdifferent mechanisms, different
targets that move in and out ofvogue.
Um with the muscarinicreceptors, is there I'm just
curious if there's any kind ofif there's like a new technology
or some new way to target thesereceptors that have helped uh
(28:02):
enable this, you know,renaissance that that you
mentioned or or not?
Bernard Ravina, M.D. (28:08):
Yeah, it's uh I think it's a couple of
things.
I think one has been justseeing clinical developments
here, and uh knowing that thesedrugs can work, uh, they target
those receptors safely.
Uh so that that's been one.
Uh that's been years in themaking, but I think the other is
the ability to be a little bitmore selective uh in you know
(28:30):
which receptors and where.
Uh so I think that that'swhat's really driving the
enhanced safety, and that's akey, key component of our
thinking and approach.
Got it.
Okay.
Ben Comer (28:43):
I want to uh just uh dig in a little bit on dystonia.
Um uh, you know, I'll have youdescribe the unmet need, but I I
was I'm not sure if there aresubtypes of dystonia or if I I
think there are obviously moresevere cases and and less severe
cases, but uh, you know, whatwould you say about the unmet
need and I guess you know thethe dystonia patient population
(29:07):
broadly?
Bernard Ravina, M.D. (29:08):
Yeah, so dystonia is an involuntary
movement disorder.
It leads to it's driven byabnormal signals in the brain,
which is why we're targetingthose receptors in the brain,
but it shows up as involuntarymuscle contractions.
And those contractions can anddo occur in pretty much every
(29:30):
part of the body.
So people can have uh dystoniain virtually any part of the
body.
Uh tends to happen in kids andkind of young, uh, really young
to adults to midlife is thepeak.
Uh, and it's very disablingbecause these movements are
painful, uh, and they open theyoften worsen as people try and
(29:53):
kind of do voluntary movements.
So uh interfere with theirregular function.
Um So the need there uh is veryclear.
There are a couple ofapproaches to treating it, no
orals as we match it.
People can have deep brainsurgery, which is a kind of
brain surgery with indwellinghardware and stimulators and
(30:15):
stuff.
Ben Comer (30:16):
That would be for the like the most severe cases.
Bernard Ravina, M.D. (30:19):
Severe, yeah.
And of course, most peopledon't want to have that.
Sure.
It's it's so it's uh less thanabout 3% of people have it.
And then the other approach totreating it is repeated
injections of botulinum toxin.
And so that's the same likekind of Botox that people use
for cosmetic purposes.
And headaches now, too, right?
(30:40):
And headaches.
That's right.
Uh and actually it can workwell.
Uh, but here you're injectingit into muscles to weaken them
versus treating the underlyingcause.
And it can work well in somepeople, but for a lot of people,
it's not enough for a kid towidespread injections across
multiple areas of the body.
(31:01):
So, you know, our our beliefand patient community and
clinical community clearlysupport this is that for the
about 160,000 people uh who havedystonia and no other
neurologic conditions, theywould uh choose an oral
therapeutic before surgery orrepeated injections.
Ben Comer (31:23):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I'm also curious if, youknow, in thinking through the
launch of this company, gettingstarted, conducting initial
experiments, did you find uh,you know, this VIM 0423
candidate and then do some workand figure out kind of like what
indication it might work bestin?
(31:45):
Or did you land on this umdystonia and then go out and
find or or produce or you know,or or invent, you know, uh a
drug that could treat that?
How did that work?
Bernard Ravina, M.D. (31:57):
Yeah, yeah.
We went backwards from uh oryou know, I don't know which
which way is forward, which wayis backwards.
So we went from you knowclinical and biological
understanding to go find uhcandidates and develop a drug
that would work for that.
So we understood the biologyand then to you know how are
(32:19):
developing VIMO423 to addressthat versus drug, where does
this fit?
And one of the really importantthings we kind of figured out
along the way is you you asked,are all these dystonias one
thing or are they different?
We realized there are geneticdystonias, uh, there are
(32:39):
sporadic, no known cause.
And then there are dystoniasthat occur in the setting of
other neurologic disorders, likeParkinson's or children with
cerebral palsy.
What we realize is the biologyand the role of muscaretic
cholinergic receptors are verysimilar across those.
So the the implication is youknow, understanding that
(33:03):
biology, one approach that'swell tolerated, where you can
really drive the doses, couldtreat all of those.
So we start with the 160,000people who have isolated
dystonia, um, but we hope tobranch out to uh dystonian
Parkinson's, cerebral palsy, andother other areas.
Ben Comer (33:25):
Do you think the the the muscarinic receptors are um
you know a a good potential foryou know other neurological
conditions as well, you know,beyond uh dystonia?
Do you have you know plans tokind of expand out in the
category with a similar targetor no?
Bernard Ravina, M.D. (33:43):
Yeah, well, there's uh there's
definitely a role uh in in otherclinical areas like tremor, uh
tremor in the setting ofParkinson's.
Um so I I think as we're seeingin psychiatry like started
schizophrenia, moving toAlzheimer's and other areas,
(34:06):
we'll we'll see this grow as weget more you know clinical
validation and further indevelopment.
Ben Comer (34:12):
Yeah, I I also wanted to ask just uh kind of about
your uh clinical strategy.
Well, first you're you're whendo you anticipate going into
your first human clinicaltrials?
Bernard Ravina, M.D. (34:23):
Uh right around the end of the year.
Uh we're actually we'recompleting phase one now.
So we should have that done bythe end of the year.
And then we'll go to phase twoin isolated Dystonia um by
around the end of the year,early next year.
Ben Comer (34:41):
Okay.
And then what's your um what doyou anticipate your your kind
of pipeline looking like in a Imean, what are you gonna pursue
this candidate kind of up untilthe late stages of of clinical
development?
Focus all your energy on that.
Do you anticipate starting upnew programs with either other
molecules or or additionalindications?
(35:02):
How are you thinking about thatat this point?
Bernard Ravina, M.D. (35:04):
Yeah, really good question.
I think uh it's something weyou know, I we as a team think
about a lot.
Like we're very excited aboutthe MO4 and moving this into
phase two.
Opportunity to be the firstoral.
As we understand more about thebiology and kind of the
clinical relevance that you aregetting at here, we'll we'll
(35:26):
hopefully unlock uh you knowmore potential programs and
applications.
But that you know, that remainsuh to be seen, and we'll talk
about that more in the future.
Right.
Okay.
Ben Comer (35:38):
Um what are your Bernard, what are your top
priorities for the next uh let'ssay 12 months?
Uh uh are there, you know, youmentioned getting into the
clinic.
I assume that's a key, a keymilestone that you're working
toward right now.
Are there are there any otheruh priorities that you would
mention um uh clinically or youknow in terms of business
(35:59):
strategy or fundraising?
Bernard Ravina, M.D. (36:01):
Yeah, we're we're very much focused on
clinical execution.
So uh wrapping up phase one, uhmoving into phase two.
Really, this is the first oraldrug development program in uh
dystonia.
Uh so you know, everything elsehas kind of been devices
injectables.
(36:21):
So um executing here,partnering with the patient
community, um, to you know,really support participation,
support our uh understanding ofhow clinical trials work, uh,
and setting expectations there.
That that's really what we'refocused on.
(36:41):
We've got great investors whoare supporting us through uh
phase two readout.
And um, yeah, and then we'llwe'll see what's next after
that.
Ben Comer (36:51):
All right, got it.
And well, let me ask this.
Uh in terms of a lot, you know,a fate, let's just say a phase
three trial, given you know whatyou know about the the dystonia
population, like how long howlarge do you think, and how long
of a trial, but how large of atrial do you think that would
need to be in phase three?
Bernard Ravina, M.D. (37:10):
Yeah, so one one of the nice things uh
that's great for drugdevelopment about uh this
approach in Dystonia is you cansee treatment benefit in just a
few months and kind of get amaximal treatment uh benefit we
expect in you know three to fourmonths.
The trials aren't very long.
(37:30):
So it's recruitment time uhfollowed by you know four months
on drug.
Uh it's a uh sample sizes.
We'll be talking more about thethe phase two and and uh future
phase threes, but these aren'thuge studies, and even phase
threes have like with the toxinshave typically been around the
(37:54):
200 patient range.
So these are manageable, nottoo long clinical development
studies, unlike diseasemodification or you know,
looking for you know, rate ofdecline in Alzheimer's disease.
Those are those arechallenging, longer studies to
conduct.
Ben Comer (38:12):
Yeah, and I I realize it's early, uh early days uh in
the development of thisproduct, but do you have a I
assume that it will beadministered chronically for
patients?
Is that right?
Do you have a sense of likewhat the dosing will look like
yet?
That's right.
Bernard Ravina, M.D. (38:27):
Yeah, we expect this to be you know once
a day dosing and it chronic likebecause you want to you know
keep the drug on the receptorsand keep that treatment effect
going.
Got it.
Okay.
Ben Comer (38:40):
Um, my final question for you, uh, Bernard, is there
any advice that you'd like togive to listeners who are
perhaps working in academia, butmaybe you know, considering a
jump into the life scienceindustry, or or maybe, you know,
they have a a really greatinvention or something that
they're interested in inacademia that they want to form
(39:00):
a company around, you know, uhwhat would you tell them?
Bernard Ravina, M.D. (39:04):
Yeah, so uh it's interesting.
A lot a lot of my colleaguesfrom academics are are
interested in an industry.
And uh, you know, the the thingI tell them, I really like it.
There's a learning curve.
I think a couple of things is,you know, for kind of younger
researchers, is like, you know,complete your training, really
(39:26):
have like a body of knowledge,kind of skill set that you can
help contribute and plug in.
Uh, and then you'll, you know,you'll grow once you get into an
industry role and you can kindof differentiate, learn new
things there.
But I think it's reallyimportant that, especially on
the clinical research side, tohave a strong skill set coming
in.
Uh, and then the other thingthat I I uh tell uh colleagues
(39:51):
and people who are interested inmoving into industry is culture
really matters.
Uh like you know, if you'reworking at one academic medical
big academic medical center,Hopkins and Harvard are probably
more similar than different.
But you know, company tocompany, you know, little
startup, mid-sized company,those are those are very
(40:12):
different.
So really, you know, really payattention to culture and
colleagues.
Ben Comer (40:17):
Yeah, well, that that makes me want to ask uh uh an
additional last question, ifit's okay, uh, which is you
know, you talked about your umthat you like to build things,
you're you're building a brandnew company, you've made some of
your, you know, your earlyhires.
What what is your approach toto finding people to that you're
that you want to work with,that you want to hire?
Um obviously you're looking forreally talented people, you
(40:41):
know, that that can bring, youknow, perhaps a skill that that
isn't in the company yet.
But is there anything else youwould say uh everybody wants
good people to work at theircompany?
What is there anything that youwould say specifically about
kind of what you look for inwhether it's you know an
executive team or or just anyonethat you're hiring to come work
(41:02):
at Vima?
Bernard Ravina, M.D. (41:04):
Yeah, yeah, and it's it's right.
Choosing our colleagues is oneof the hardest things we do.
Like we're not that good at it,right?
Like interview people, like theyou know, predictive value
isn't that great.
So what one of the things we'veemphasized, we're small, so
it's easier, uh, but is kind ofwithin that work, you know,
(41:25):
people we know, or somebody elsewe, you know, a colleague of
ours has worked with them andlike we know their style.
And I think the kind of numberone thing I want um is the focus
on the the work and the purposein a low ego kind of
environment, like focus ongetting it right, not being
(41:48):
right.
Um, and so you can get somevery high-drive people who
really want to look.
It's great.
Um, but uh uh our our team inparticular really likes to focus
on collaboration,understanding, and getting it
right.
Ben Comer (42:05):
Bernard, thank you so much for coming on the show.
Oh, it's been a pleasure.
Really appreciate it talkingwith it.
We've been speaking withBernard Ravina, CEO at Vima
Therapeutics.
I'm Ben Comer, and you've justlistened to the Business of
Biotech.
Find us and subscribe anywhereyou listen to podcasts, and be
sure to check out our new weeklyvideo cast of these
(42:26):
conversations every Monday underthe Business of Biotech tab at
life scienceleader.com.
We'll see you next week, andthanks as always for listening.
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