Breaking “Unbreakable”: Sean Conway on the Grand Slam of Endurance

Episode Transcript
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Sean Conway (00:07):
And I think it's important that we all find a
ball to chase in life.
Whatever it is.
I think we all have a sort ofinterior in us.
People who feel a bit lost andwhen they get out of bed, you
know, the sparks gone.
Find a ball to chase.
It doesn't matter what it is,just find something difficult to
chase and then just chase it.

Charlie Reading (01:30):
If you're looking for inspiration to push
past your limits in sportbusiness andor life, this
episode will give it to you.
Now, Sean was actually my guestnumber two on the podcast, so
you may want to go back andlisten to that episode as well.
But for now, let's dive intothis brilliant conversation with

(01:51):
the amazing Sean Conway.
General, when we look at theback end of this podcast, then
we see something reallyinteresting.
We see that 57% of the peoplethat regularly listen to it
haven't hit the subscribebutton.
So could I ask you a quickfavor before we dive into
today's episode?

(02:12):
If you're enjoying Claire and Ibringing you amazing guests,
not asking you for patronagefees and not jamming the podcast
full of adverts, then the bestway you can help us continue to
do that and to make it evenbetter is to hit that subscribe
button.
And here's my promise to youwhen you subscribe, we'll make

(02:34):
it our mission, along with theteam that supports us, to
continue to improve this podcastevery week.
So thank you so much for yoursupport and for being a part of
the business of endurancecommunity.
Let's dive in.
So, Sean, welcome back to theBusiness of Endurance podcast.
Officially, it's your firsttime on the Business of

(02:55):
Endurance Podcast, because ofcourse it was called the
Tribathlon Podcast when you wereguest number, I think you were
guest number two.
So you are the f officially thefirst guest that is being
invited back for a second visit.
Um, so this is one more of yourfirst achievements that you can
add to your long list offirsts.
But I'm really looking forwardto chatting to you, particularly

(03:16):
after cycling from Land ZentJohn at Groats with you.
I know we hear we chatted a lotthere and looking forward to
sort of diving into some newstuff.
And of course, since we didthat interview, you went off and
did a small sort of mini, miniendurance trip that was known as
Iron 105 or Iron 105, so 105Ironlands in 105 days is

(03:39):
actually just like completely,you just can't contemplate it.
So I'd like to start therebecause obviously we didn't talk
about that in the in the lastepisode.
So, where did the concept ofiron 105 come about?
And can you try and explain topeople how tough a challenge
that was?
Because I know when we spoke onour bike ride, it almost was
too much for people tocomprehend.

(04:01):
So, how do you explain thatWine 105 and how was it born?
Yeah.

Well, I go into how it was born.
In the world of endurance andthe world of breaking records
and that sort of thing, there'sa thing called the endurance
grand slab.
So there's four types of worldrecords you can get.
You can become you can get aworld's first, be the first to
do something, a world's furthestor or longest, a world's
fastest, and then the last oneis the world's most of.
So you can do the mostmarathons in a year or whatever.

(04:27):
I had three of them.
I had a world's first, I wasthe first to swim the length of
Britain back in 2013.
I had the world's longestcontinuous triathlon record.
I did a 4,200-mile continuoustriathlon, and then I was the
fastest record, I was thefastest person to cycle across
Europe.
So from the edge of Portugal tothe Ural Mountains in Russia,
4,000 miles.
So the the the the last one Ihad was the most of.

(04:49):
And then because you know I'vedone swim bike run and I love
triathlon, I'm still the onlyperson in history to have done a
Lands Enter John of Groats swimbike run.
For me, it just seemed obvious.
It just seemed obvious that Iwas going to go for the what was
considered really by theinternet and by everyone, an
unbreakable record of the mostnumber of Ironmans in a row.
So that that's sort of how itcame about, really.

(05:11):
Just me wanting to get theGrand Slam, which A, no one else
in the world ever has, and Bwas to, you know, get that
record that sort of everyone,including the previous world
record holder, said, you know,is impossible.
And he was going to take it tothe grave.
And, you know, nothing againsthim personally, but when I heard
that, I was like, no, youwon't.
You know, it's just a bit ofbit of I mean, sport is meant to

(05:33):
be competitive, right?
And I think you will push eachother higher and higher and
higher.
Um and that sort of really whathooked me in, you know, once I
decided, and once in my heartand head committed, you know,
I'm a monkey terrier, I talkabout a lot.
I have these two personalities,and they both need feeding.
And the monkey's creative andyou know, writes books, and I've
got, you know, a whole bunchhere written eight books, which

(05:55):
I keep on my desk here next tome.
That's and I like to try lotsof different things.
So that's the the the monkey,but the terrier just needs to
chase things.
And if I if I'm if I don't feedthe terrier, usually every
couple of years, and the terrierreally just gets agitated.
Um, and then once I thought oftrying to break the most of my
man's record, that's the ballbeing thrown for the terrier.
Once that happens, to me, it'seasier for me to chase the ball

(06:18):
than not chase the ball.
Which if anyone's got a terrieror any dog that chases a ball,
if you if you throw the ball andhold it, hold it, hold the
collar of the dog, right?
The terrier I used to have, itgoes mad, doesn't it?
It's just like the ball.
And that's that's kind of whatit is like for me as well.
When someone throws that ball,when I have that idea and and
it's really now, you know, youcan have it in the bit
percolating in the deck, butonce it gets thrown, then I I

(06:40):
just have to go for it.
I just have to.
And I think it's important thatwe all find uh a ball to chase
in life, whatever it is.
I think we I think we all havea sort of a terrier in us.
Yeah, you don't have to go tothe extremes I've put myself
through, but I think it'simportant.
I think people who feel a bitlost and are, you know, just a
bit grumpy, or when they get outof bed, they're just you know,
the spark's gone.
Find a ball to chase.

(07:01):
It doesn't matter what it is,just find something difficult to
chase and then just chase it.
And then that that sort of setme on that path.
And then your second questionis sort of the enormity of it.
That it's only in sort ofprospectively looking back at it
and looking at how peopleresponded to it while I was
doing it that I've sort ofrealized over the last two years
now that it it just was justtoo big and too difficult.

(07:25):
And and people just sort ofreally didn't understand it.
You know, doing one Iron Man isincredibly difficult.
Even now, I'm not gonnadiminish that, even though even
though I've done the the 105,even doing one is still very
hard.
You know, doing two is hard,doing three is hard.
You know, 10 years ago, no onehad done more than sort of 30 in
a year.
So it just becomes it's it's asort of a difference between

(07:45):
millions and billions.
You sort of just see them bothas big numbers, but actually a
billion, it's a lot, a lot, alot more thousand times more
than a million, of course.
Yeah, it's it's I have I'venoticed that it's been very
difficult to explain it topeople.
Even people who to knowtriathlon and and that sort of
thing are 105.
They will have what really whatand and it just it's like it's

(08:06):
just uncomprehendable.
And that's part of my sort ofrole or responsibility now is to
share that story and tell thatstory in a way that will
hopefully inspire nextgeneration without making them
just go like, oh, that's justway too difficult.
I don't want to talk to youbecause you're obviously an
outlier.
Because that is the worry, youknow, suddenly I've put myself

(08:29):
outside of what people thinkthey can achieve, and then they
just put me as an outlier.
Oh, Sean's an outlier,whatever, you did it, I can't do
it.
So that's sort of part of myjourney now is to show people
with science and facts andfigures and storytelling that
actually I am just a normal guybecause I've been tested for.
But I I've applied XYZ, I'veapplied the 10.5 pillars of

(08:51):
endurance, and everyone hastheir own 10.5, um, and that
allowed me to break that.
And when you break it down,then you can achieve it, you
know.
So that's sort of been been thejourney over the last couple of
years since we taught last,really, is is A, breaking that
record, and then B realizingthat everyone thinks it was
bulkers and impossible anddidn't understand it, so it kind
of just turned off basically.

(09:12):
And I'm trying to go, well,actually, if you do what I say
and listen to all my lessons,you'll actually, it does make
sense, you know.

It is an unbelievable achievement.
I mean, I I I mean by the way,I loved reading Iron 105, your
book.
I think that is, it's just likeA, it had me chuckling along
while I was I was listening toit while typically while I was
running, so I was laughing awayto uh to quite a few different
bits in it.
But it's just the enormity ofit is absolutely I mean, you

(09:41):
know, Claire and I have donemultiple Iron Man's Claire a lot
more than I have, but the ideaof doing two in two days seems
ludicrous.
So to go 105 days is like it'sabsolutely insane.
Um, I can't think of a betterway of of describing it, but
there must have been someincredibly dark moments during
it.
Well, describe what those darkmoments were and what were the

(10:03):
greatest lessons from completingIron 105?

Yeah, there was a couple of really, really dark
moments.
One is just quite early on,actually.
Well, any in the in the overallcampaign, my big dark moment
was actually I failed the firstattempt, only got to day seven,
I'm embarrassing, right?
And that's when the wholeinternet said, Oh, I told you
this record was impossible,you've never done an Iron Man,
which is true, still haven't,you know.
You and you're to day seven,you'll never do this.
You know, you're too slow, yourpower's rubbish, your FTP's

(10:29):
rubbish, your marathon pace isrubbish.
And they were sort of right.
I I really probably needed towork on my pace a little bit.
Uh and that's what I did.
So I came back.
So that that was difficult.
So failing that first onereally was dark because you
know, I'm 44 years old now, or40 one back then, 42.
I've got all the the injuryniggling, you know, demons on my
shoulder going, well, you know,because you don't bounce back

(10:51):
biologically as you get older,you're a bit more robust.
And I feel like I can push thatedge more with with experience.
But really, that was dark.
And then on the second attempt,you know, nearly timing out in
the first on day two and threebecause of an injury so early on
again.
Yeah, I missed the cut, the17-hour cutoff.
I nearly missed it by fiveminutes.
I did 16 hours, 55 minutes onday I think two or three.

(11:14):
So that was, you know, that wasa dark moment thinking, geez,
you know, maybe I just don'thave it in me, you know.
And it took a lot of willpower,it took a lot of sort of
practical thinking, not tryingto let my emotions get in the
way, but go back to like, right,what can I control?
What can't I control?
Because there's also thistendency that we all want big

(11:35):
improvements in our performance.
Because we see people on theinternet and they're like, oh
wow, he's so good, and you putyourself up against them.
And that, you know, you don'tknow their history, how much
training they're doing, and thatsort of thing.
So I remember when I did 16hours 55, you know, the tendency
for day one I did like 14 hoursor 15 hours.
I was like, oh, I'm two hoursslower.
Tomorrow I want to be two hoursquicker.
And I had to rein myself backand say, no, no, no, that's just

(11:57):
like just be five minutesquicker.
And I was, I was seven minutesquicker.
So I was like, oh, I did twominutes better than I thought I
was gonna do.
And then that's what I startedto do.
I just changed my perceptionand my, my sort of my view on my
performance, said, right, well,tomorrow I'm gonna be five
minutes, five minutes.
And I just chipped away at theblock until I got quick enough
that I was, I I sort of thenleveled out on a pretty even

(12:20):
sort of 15 hours, 14 hours, 13and a half hours type thing.
And then that becamesustainable.
You know, when you can do 40 or15 hours, you're getting nine,
10 hours recovery, and you'redefinitely getting eight hours
sleep in that.
And then it becomes sustainableif you can do that with a low
heart rate.
So those are the things Istarted to focus on.
I started to focus on the 10.5pillars of endurance.

(12:41):
You know, I've got them writtendown.
Yeah, I stare at them every dayin my office.
And I'll quickly go throughthem.
There's planning, equipment,experience, fitness and
conditioning, and nutrition andhydration, recovery, muscle
management, health, mindset,community, and the 0.5 is luck.
Sometimes you just need a bitof luck, right?
And bad luck can can derail youas well.
So that was it.
You know, that's how I got outthese real difficult moments by

(13:05):
practically thinking aboutright, why am I down?
What is going wrong?
What is going right?
What can I improve on?
What can I get those littlemarginal gains?
And then they slowly build upbecause what are and it's quite
human behavior.
A lot of people, you know, andthis is quite well documented,
really overestimate what theycan achieve in like a day or a

(13:26):
week, massively underestimatewhat they can achieve in one
year, five years, ten years,right?
And that's what I started tothink.
I sort of started thinking,right, well, I'm on day five,
day six, it's going pretty bad.
Let's have a goal by day 30 tobe in this position.
And then it just changes yourframework.
You know, you're not dividingeach day up into all these like

(13:46):
managed little things, you youyou're just averaging out your
day.
And then that really works forme, you know.
And that works in in businessand life as well now.
You know, when I when I write abook, I'm not like I need to do
500 words a day.
I say, right, well, I I need todo 10,000 words this month, and
that's kind of what I look atit.
And then some days I do more,some days I do less.
And people who lose weight,it's quite common.

(14:07):
People who lose weightshouldn't do a daily calorie
count if you're trying to loseweight, if and if if a calorie
deficit is the way you'rechoosing to do it, you should
have a weekly count.
Because inevitably, if you havea daily count and you go over
it, you go, Oh, failed, I'mgonna give up.
But if you have a weekly one,you're gonna achieve it.
So it's all those little steps,which sort of gets me out.
And people do ask me, so Sean,you know, what's your

(14:28):
superpower?
Why can you do this?
Hey, I don't have one.
I've been tested, you know,mentally, physically, all my
markers, Joe Blogs.
However, if I did have one, isI'm very good at micromanaging
my performance and working outwhat can work and what doesn't
work.
And I do that regularlythroughout every Iron Man.
I'm you know, I'm looking at mystats.
I know it was three laps on thebike.

(14:49):
If I was five minutes down onone day, I'm like, right, why am
I down?
Oh, actually, I don't feel sobad.
The reason I'm down is becausethere was that train crossing
that I had to cross six timesand I lost five minutes at the
train crossing.
So, okay, let's not stress.
So, yeah, if that was mysuperpower, that's probably what
it would be.
And that's what got me out thedark times, really.

And I think what I love about that is, uh,
and I can't remember who I heardsay this, but it's easier to
find 101% gains than one 100%gain.
And you're just constantlylooking for so today we can
improve a little bit by this,tomorrow we can improve a little
bit like this.
And that I think is reallypowerful.
What fascinated me was when youdecided to end, you'd say

(15:29):
originally it was a 102, youneeded to go to 102 Ironmans,
and then you had this amazingway of deciding how to whether
you carried on or finished.
So describe that to people, howyou did that, and what did you
learn from the way you did that?

So I well, let's reverse it.
Past part of my, and I hate theword manifesting, but you sort
of know what I mean, right?
When I go into it, I go in withthis utter 100% self-belief
that it's a dummy.
I'm no plan B.
I'm not very good with a plan Bbecause I find for me, if you
have a plan B, you might takeit.
Like, for example, I got offasked that, you know, by someone
I'm very close to, really goodfriend of mine for many years.

(16:06):
Uh, they said, Oh, Sean, youknow, if the full Ironmans
aren't going so well and youtime out, will you maybe move to
the half Iron Man record andjust carry on doing the half?
And I was like, no, absolutelynot.
Now, had I that as an option inmy head, I may have taken it on
day two or three when I wasbroken and I was nearly timing
out.
So, yes, I'm a big fan of sortof no plan B for me.

(16:28):
You have one, you can you canmove plan A and you can change
things so that, but you stillhave the end goal.
I that's there's still onefinish line.
You're not moving your finishline.
Part of that process isactually I printed numbers up to
123.
I was like, right, I'll putthis is such a done deal.
I'm gonna smash a record, go upto one, two, three.
Why one, two, three?
Because it seemed like the nextcool number.
And it cost me a pattern, itwas 10 quid a number to pay for.

(16:49):
So I spent like 300 quid Ididn't need to just to you know
get all these caps and numbersright.
So when I got to sort of day95-ish, I remember thinking, I
just I reckon I could carry on.
And I went to Caroline, mylovely wife, and I said, Look, I
reckon, I reckon I can do somemore.
And the look on her face, shewas very supportive though.
She's like, she's just waslike, Sean, like you're never

(17:10):
doing this again.
No regrets.
Like, just do what you need todo.
But also remember, you're adad.
I've got two young boys whoweren't at school.
Caroline is self-employed andwas still working.
So like she actually had theharder deal.
100%, you know.
Hats off to single mums outthere.
It was hard for her, right?
So there was sort of really noreal other than ego going much

(17:32):
further than that, other than mejust going, I feel I got more
in the tank.
But I didn't want to give upbecause I knew I'd regret it.
So I thought, right, well, Ialways I always knew I was gonna
do day 103.
So day 102, I brought therecord.
Day 103, I always was in in thebooks because I wanted to know
what it felt like to do an IronMan that I didn't have to do.
Up to 102, I had to do it.
If I didn't do it, record'soff.
Day 103 was like, whatever, yougot the record, maybe.

(17:54):
And I wanted to know whether mybody would totally crumble and
just be like, oh, you're broken,like it's over.
Or would I thrive because thepressure is off, which is a
really interesting experimentfor me.
So I was super excited aboutday three, did day three, and I
thrived.
I loved it.
It didn't matter if I crashedout on the bike, I could push it
a little bit harder, didn'thave to worry about injury,
because I had the record, right?

(18:14):
And then from then on, I madean agreement with Caroline that
I'd flip a coin.
I said, look, I'll flip a coinand I'll choose heads every
time.
I said, heads I carry on, tailsI quit.
The coin said do day 104, thecoin said do day 105, and then
when I flipped for day 106, thecoin said stop.
And that was it.
And now for me, it mentally youcan say, well, actually, I
didn't quit the bloody coin.

(18:34):
Tommy'd stops.
It's it's been a good way forme to navigate the how far I
could have gone, becauseactually that was it.
That was the agreement I hadwith Caroline, and I needed to
be a husband and a dad again.
And I'm proud of that now.
I'm proud.
I'm not sitting here going, Ohyeah, I definitely could have
gone to 150 or 200, you know.
So yeah, that's that's how thatone ended.

Claire Fudge (18:55):
I I love the idea of flipping the coin because I
can hear with like the way thatyou talk and the adventures
you've done, that that couldhave just continued and
continued and continued.
You talked about no plan B andyou touched on it a little bit,
but but what do you mean by noplan B?
So, you know, surely there'sgot to be options.
I mean, you're out there fordays, hours, months, like doing

(19:17):
things.
So, how do you have let's sayoptions?
I don't know what what do youcall them?

So when I go into something, the no plan B is the
ultimate goal.
So for the Iron 105, it wasgetting to what, A, getting to
day 102.
If you take injury out of it,because you know, you could I
could have got run over by acar, and then that obviously
that ends it.
And previously on the previousrecord, I got injured when I
crashed out on the bike.
So if you take that out of thequestion, and now you're just

(19:42):
dealing with pain, suffering,misery, depression, deprivation,
all that sort of thing, right?
There's still just no plan B inI will get to 102.
There's no me changing it tohalf Iron Man record or me
trying to get so other options Icould have quite easily hung my
hat on would have been A,stopping at the British record
of 21.

(20:03):
Oh, brilliant British record,stopping at the European record,
which was 61, I think, or 62.
Um, or moving to the half IronMan record halfway through if I
got injured and couldn't just doit, moving to the half iron.
I don't even know what the halfiron record, I think it's less
than than 105 anyway.
So those could have been otheroptions for me.
And for me, that just itdoesn't work for me.

(20:23):
And and I'm not very good ateven celebrating the minor wins,
but that I know doesn't workfor some people, and I think
some people need to celebratethe minor wins.
So, like as a crew, I've letthem celebrate when I got the
British record, the Europeanrecord, and a few other things.
So, yeah, those that's what Imean, you know, and my other
record, swimming the length ofBritain, like finishing it, it's
all I needed to do, no matterif it took me, you know, two

(20:46):
months, three months, fourmonths, five months, six months,
eight months getting into Johnof Groats from starting at
Land's End was the no plan B,you know.
Because plan B could have been,you know, by the time because
that I was a bit slow, I wasstill swimming in November.
You know, I could have got toOctober and gone, oh well, I'm
gonna GPS pinpoint, but thisweather's a bit rubbish, I'll go
home and I'll come back nextyear and finish the final leg in

(21:07):
the summer.
Um, but no, that was just myoption.
I was just gonna deal withScottish winter and swim in
around Cape Wrath with 30, 40,50 foot waves.
And that was it.
No plan B on there.
So that's how I go into it.
And it's very important for meto have a clear finish line with
no other options along the wayfor each individual record.

(21:29):
And that just makes me morefocused.
It makes me more focused, youknow.
Because sometimes you will, youknow, you get these ultra races
where you you know you mighthave a hundred and sixty K, a
hundred K, and a 50K.
You know, the worst thing youcan do is go, oh well, I've I'll
sign up for the 160, butactually I might pull out at the
100.
Oh yeah.
Just just no.
Because you will, I promiseyou, you'll pull out at the 100

(21:51):
if if you gave yourself thatthing, that option.
And then sometimes you you youyou know, some people might
thrive on putting things inplace to not allow you to pull
out at the hundred, or you know,I don't know, just take your
favourite watch and leave it atat the end at 160.
So you have to get to the end,otherwise you someone's gonna
pick your watch.
I don't know.
You know, there's things,there's lots of stuff you could

(22:12):
do to to motivate yourself.
And what you know, I call thema part of one of the 10.5
pillars is mindset.
And what under that that somepillar of that is what I call
dangling carrots.
You know, you've got to dangleas many carrots in front of you
to help you motivate you.
Some people say you should havea bucket of motivation and you
put as many things in there.
So when you're tired, you pullthe thing out.
I I had the carrot analogy, youknow, look at when you're

(22:34):
really struggling, you're like,oh, there's still that carrot,
and that could be raising moneyfor charity, having a cool pub
story for your mates.
For me, it's when my lad, mytwo boys do their first Iron Man
and moan how miserable it was.
I'll be like, you don't knowpain, boys.
You know, that was a carrot.
So yeah, that it's that's sortof how I manifest again.
I hate that word.
But you know, you sort of knowwhat I mean, that self-belief

(22:54):
and and and implementing aprocess and a strategy that
everyone buys into then, becauseit's very clear.
It's one of 102 or nothing,guys, like everything and
everything's fits towards that.
So all my teammates, my crew,everyone in my little snowball,
I call it, is working towardsthat all or nothing goal,

(23:15):
really.

It sounds like no isn't an option for you either.
That the Gordon's throne, andthat's where you're that's where
you're going.
I guess that's that terrierthat you described right at the
very beginning.

Yeah, that's that's that is true.
No is not an option.
Some it depends.
I can also say yes toeverything sometimes, and that
also comes hardship.

I also wanted to just actually go back to
something you said right at thevery beginning.
Around this, you talked aboutthe Grand Slam, the endurance
grand slam, and you mentionedabout the first, the longest,
the fastest, and the most of.
You've described this before asyour philosophy, I guess, in
terms of being first, furthest,fastest, foremost.
Can you explain that philosophya little bit and how you've

(23:55):
applied it, but not just tosport, perhaps, we know perhaps
in life and in business as well?

Yeah.
So when I first discovered theterrier in me, or first
acknowledged that the terrier, Iknew there was always in my
twenties, I knew that there wasa side of me, but I didn't
really know how to feed it.
I I was always chasingsomething that not quite hard
enough, or not part of a biggerpicture, or or just one-off
little things.
And that sort of also didn'treally satisfy me.

(24:22):
So the grand slam was sort ofjust having a really, really
long-term goal.
And I I think that's importantas well.
And and that goes back to ourspectrum spoke about earlier,
where everyone reallyunderestimates what they can
achieve in 10 years.
And and sort of my 10-year goalwas this was this grand slam,
which really, if I'm honest, atthe beginning I was like, it's

(24:43):
never gonna happen, mate.
Like I'm a school portraitphotographer, whatever, I'm I'm
gonna just go for it.
Because I had no business inthe world of endurance.
Had not I was a school portraitphotographer until I was 30
years old, didn't own a pair ofrunning shoes.
I I knew nothing about sport,right?
Never run a marathon.
I think I ran my first marathonwhen I was 30, 20, 30, 39, I

(25:04):
think I was.
I don't know, 36.
I don't know.
I was pretty old.
So yeah, so the this grand slamwas also having this really
long-term goal to chase.
And that that excited me.
That excites me.
And it excites me now havingjust stuff that's really
long-term, you know, which Inever outside of the Grand Slam,

(25:24):
I hadn't really thought.
I I really thought it'd take melonger than 10 years or so,
totally.
And now that it's happened, youknow, there was a little
obviously I'm only human, sothere was a little bit of me
that was like, oh now what weknow, what I'm gonna do now on
drip I've achieved more than Iever thought I'd ever achieve
physically.
But you know, I find othermountains to climb which are
equally difficult to me.
Are they as difficult as 105Ironmans to the general public?

(25:48):
Probably not.
Are they as difficult to me?
Yeah, probably.
And those are in the pipelineat the moment.
So uh and they're also part ofjust a much, much bigger
picture.
And the bigger picture for meis is at some point, I'm 44 now.
Biology, you can't changebiology.
I'm gonna get slower and bemore injured as I get older.
Hopefully not.
I'm feeling pretty strong rightnow, but you know, life will

(26:09):
change and and I'll have theselong-term goals, which I think
is important.
I think everyone should have10-year goals, you know, like
you know, if you want it.
A good example is you know, ifyou if you're you know wanting
to do couch to 5k and likethat's a big goal for you, why
don't in 10 years' time sign upfor 100 mile reps or 100k reps?
You know, why you do that?
I've put in my diary for twentyfor just for November 2035, I'm

(26:34):
gonna be rowing the Atlanticwith my whole family, me, my
wife, and our two boys.
It's in the diary.
November 2035.
That's when we're doing it.
The boys will be old enough toactually be able to do some
rowing, they'll be teenagers bythen, late teens, and that's
cool, right?
I've got something superlooking forward to, which now
makes me go, like, right, I'mgonna need to step it up.
Right, I need to save for thisboat for one, it's very

(26:54):
expensive.
So that's in the pipeline.
Like, we're just um now, likeI'm not doing it every day, of
course, but you know, every fewmonths am I right?
What am I doing towards thislong-term plan of rowing the
Atlantic with my family in 10years' time?
And I I yeah, I love it.
You know, I think we should alldo that.
Super important, superimportant to long-term goals.

It sounds amazing.
And I love the I'm sureCharlie's already got stuff in
his diary for 2035 probably orsomething.
So, how can like you touched onit a little bit there, but how
can listeners today like applysome of these principles to
their goals and their life?
So you talked about kind ofplanning way in advance of
something that's huge.
What are the kind of how whatelse can they apply from from

(27:34):
those principles?

So I think once you've got the long-term goal,
don't be in a rush to it to havethese big advances in
performance.
You've got to set a goodfoundation early on.
A, you suffer burnout, b, yousuffer injury, b, you just
suffer lack of motivation, oryou give up, or yeah, it just
gets overwhelming, whatever.
So set a good foundation, havethat long-term goal, and then

(27:55):
just keep chipping away at it,and you'll achieve all the
little milestones along the way,still have that really scary
long, long-term goal.
And practically just write itdown.
I'm quite visual, you know.
I like to write this.
My whole office here is ablackboard.
So I painted blackboard stuffeverywhere.
So I write on the roof and onthe walls and everything,
whatever.
I'm quite visual, you know.
I respond very well to visualstimulation rather than audible,

(28:18):
for example.
So that's what I would have,you know.
I'd I'd put stuff in the diary,you know, and and not all of it
will happen.
You know, not all of it willhappen.
You know, but I have somereally crazy, far-fetched ideas
that I just put out there andthey're in my little book of
ideas.
You know, they're exciting now,but am I ready for them?
Do I want them enough?
Maybe, maybe not.
They might come around in acouple of years' time when I'm

(28:40):
ready for it, or you know, thefamily dynamics means I'm able
to do it and that sort of thing.
But, you know, just find stuffto get excited about that way in
the future.
So it's super important.
Whatever it is, it can bephysical, it can be hobbies, it
can be learning a language, oras I said, you know, think about
you know, potentially where youwant to be with something X, Y,
Z in 10 years' sign.
And you'll just you'll justtreat the whole process

(29:01):
differently.
And you won't, you won't sortof there's this sort of
motivation and skill graph.
So you, you know, when youstart off something, your
skill's low and yourmotivation's high.
And as you get better, yourskill will go up.
You'll weirdly, and it's humannature, your motivation for it
does dip after a while.
You're super motivated at thebeginning, you're sort of a
starter, you maybe might lose alittle bit of motivation.

(29:21):
Where those cross, you'll oftenfind is where people sometimes
give up because now they're lessmotivated than they are
skilled.
So they're super, they've gotmore skill, but maybe don't feel
like they should be where theywant to be.
Just stick at it because whatyou'll find is you'll unlock the
next door and then your yourmotivation starts coming up
again.
It's sort of like a reversebell curve.
And and that's what I'm like,and not everyone's like that,

(29:43):
you know.
I mean, Charlie talks about,you know, are you a starter or a
finisher or an all or whatever?
You know, so I'm definitely allof it because I can stick at
all of it.
I'm a very good starter atsomething, pretty good at the
middle making it happen, andthen I'm pretty good at
executing at the end.
But not everyone is.
Sometimes people love thestart, but.
And then lose enthusiasm, butstick at it.
And then it it's sort of theenthusiasm comes back again, I

(30:05):
find in that curve as yousuddenly get better.
You know, and this is withfitness a good example.
When you first start running,you're super motivated, but you
rubbish, right?
You do that first run, thenyou're on a high.
And then like within a coupleof weeks, you're like, I'm just
not getting better.
I'm on sore.
And the motivation dips.
But if you stick at it,suddenly you'll realize God, I'm
running six minute K's and notbreaking a sweat.

(30:25):
Then also you're like, oh,right, now that three hour,
four-hour marathon time that Ithought was unachievable becomes
possible.
And then your motivation goesup again.

Brilliant.
I I love this.
And I love, I love inparticular your approach to a
long-term goal.
I don't have anything plannedfor 2035 yet.
But what I do love is I havelong-term goals that are kind of
a bit more woolly.
But I think what what's greatabout the approach you're
talking about is that you'reprogramming your subconscious to
say, this is really importantto me.

(30:54):
I don't quite know how or whenit's even possible for it to
happen.
But all the time in thebackground, your subconscious is
going, hang on, I know this isan important thing, or hang on,
there's an opportunity overhere.
If you do that, that'll lead tothis thing that you've told me
is important.
And that's why having thoselong-term goals is so important.
I think it's I think it's uhreally, really, really powerful.

(31:15):
One of the things I lovechatting to you about while we
were cycling the legs of the UKwas your time growing up in
Africa.
Uh, obviously, Africa's reallyclose to my heart, but and I've
you know been lucky enough to goto the game reserve you spent a
lot of your childhood growingup in.
So, but one of the other thingsthat came out of those stories
was right at a young age, youseemed to have both people and

(31:39):
animals trying to kill you, oryou were getting yourself into
situations where your life wasat in danger.
So, so I wonder if you couldshare one of those stories,
whether it's to do with a lionor whether it's to do with those
young male elephants that youyou shared with me, but then
also kind of tie into that.
How you think that childhoodhas formed the career that you
have later on found?

Yeah, Africa, my African childhood was amazing.
Like I was I grew up on theZambezi River in Zimbabwe, then
moved to South Africa.
My dad's a rhino and elephantconservationist, specializes in
rhino and elephant conservationmanagement and big game, game
reserve, game park management aswell.
And yeah, I just I grew up inthe bush.
And like, I don't know how myparents manage or coat.

(32:23):
Like we had snakes everywhere.
Snakes that would kill you inhalf an hour.
You know, we'd go on a gamedrive, and I'm on the back of
the bucky, we used to call itthe pickup truck.
Um, and you know, I remembercoming around the corner and
there was a zebra kill on theside of the road.
I used to collect like skinsand skulls and animals in my
bedroom, and you know, it wasjust just your typical African
upbringing, right?

(32:44):
And I remember seeing the zebraskull on the road.
I was like, oh, suddenly Iremember climbing out the back
of the pickup.
Just I was literally almostlike in the air, you know, going
to get this thing.
It's suddenly in the grass nextto it, a lion jumped.
I scared the crap out of thislion, and it just looked at me,
and I looked at it, I climbedback in the car.
I hadn't jumped at least.
And I was like, I was onesecond away from jumping on top

(33:05):
of a lion.
And I don't think it would havetaken it too well.
And then, you know, theelephants as well, you know, we
we had people killed,unfortunately.
It's really tragic by a herd ofelephants that were in the
road, and this person justhooted and they got annoyed and
they just ran the car andunfortunately killed the driver.
And that was, you know, 500meters from my house.

(33:26):
So it was it was a reallydangerous place.
You know, I had a hyena come inour house once.
Someone left the the gardengate open and someone left the
kitchen door open.
And then the thing hyena camein and trashed our living room.
And the first I heard about itwas my mum waking me up at six
in the morning, giving me aright bollocking for leaving the
the living room in a messovernight.
I was like, it wasn't me, Mum,I promise.

(33:47):
She was like, Wasn't that?
And luckily we found the bikeparks and the spore print
outside.
So yeah, it was it was quiteadventurous.
I do joke, you know, whenever Igive a talk and I sort of at
the beginning of my talk is alittle bit about my my African
upbringing.
The sort of the running joke isthat, you know, my dad says,
sure, you know, even now I'm 44,sure, when are you gonna get a
real job, mate?
I'm like, Dad, you took thatyou took that off the table a

(34:09):
long time ago, you know, havingthis amazing adventurous
upbringing.
How does it how has it affectedmy life now?
Well, there's there's just Ihad an outdoorsy wilderness
life.
So that there's that part ofme, I guess I'm yearning for,
just to live that, be out in theworld and travel and and and
that sort of thing.
It made me resilient, you know,walking around barefooted is

(34:32):
you know, we we try andencourage our boys to run around
barefoot because you know, theless you you run around
barefoot, the more likely youare to get your feet cut up when
you don't, you know.
So it's sort of this thing likeyou know, parents put your
shoes on, you're gonna get yourfoot cut.
That's sort of why they'regonna get their feet cut, right?
So we are like, go and get yourfeet cut.
You do it more often,eventually your feet won't get

(34:54):
cut because they'll be superstrong, right?
It builds that resilience.
And that's obviously quite aphysical metaphor for for
resilience.
But but yeah, it was uh yousort of life was just tougher.
It was, you know, things kindof kill you the whole time.
And you know, we only hadelectricity for a few hours a
day, and then it was just alwayson a generator, so it went off.
There's mosquitoes, snakes,there's frogs in your shoes

(35:16):
every time, you know.
So if you, you know, in ourhousehold, before you put your
shoe on, you tap the heel on thefloor in case a snake or a frog
came out, and that was justlife.
You just tapped, yeah, it's afrog, let the frog outside, put
your shoe on.
So yeah, it couldn't I can'tsee me sort of having that
childhood and doing anythingother than what I'm doing now.

(35:37):
And I tried, I triedphotography.
I thought I'd be a nationalgeographic photographer, but I
made poor decisions and wentdown a route that was sort of,
you know, in my head was easymoney, which it was
photographing school kids in theearly 2000s before camera
phones when the only way to getpictures of your kids was school
portraits, really, or payingfor one at a studio.

(35:57):
And uh yeah, that was that'swhat I did unfortunately.
Made some poor decisions andstepped away from that sort of
adventurous spirit in me, whichI was probably trying to hide
away or deny or think was notimportant, really, that it was.
I can't, it just sits in me.
I have to do it really.
And yeah, that was that was it.
I mean, so I can I can really Ineed to thank my dad, you know.

(36:19):
It's like thanks, Dad.
You know, you've you've met youand mum, of course, because she
was also working in the gamereserve as well with dad.
Um, and yeah, with withoutthem, I would have to, you know,
had a very, very differentoutlook on life.
And everyone has their ownlife, and I'm just pretty happy
with the one I've lived lived,really.

Do you I mean that childhood just sounds amazing
from you know, coming from theUK and listening about that and
and kind of those stories?
Do you I can see you understandnow you're describing it, like
that adventure that you had as achild and how that maybe kind
of now plays out in terms ofwhat makes you happy or tick
right now or the terrier,whatever it might be.
But do you think that's alsohad an impact on how like

(37:00):
resilient you are, like the thefact that you can keep going
through anything?
Has that childhood had animpact on that side of your
endurance?
Do you think?

Yeah, definitely.
From a resourcefulness point ofview, I think the other thing
that growing up in thewilderness in Africa is you had
to be pretty resourceful whenthings went wrong.
You know, you couldn't, therewas no easy fix because you're,
you know, I was an hour fromanywhere, you know, civilized
really.
So when things broke or thingsdidn't go your way, you sort of
had to do it yourself, like finda way of fixing it or any

(37:31):
problems, you had to really, youcouldn't really call anyone
else in, you had to sort of doit yourself.
And I remember, you know, withmum and dad being really that
really sort of rubbing in on methat you know, if something
breaks, you fix it, you don'tbuy a new one.
You know, my dad now, so it's2025, he has the same microwave
that he bought in 1995.

(37:52):
Yep.
Ready?
So he has had the samemicrowave for 30 and he and
every day he cleans it and letsit dry out and fixes it.
Same.
I think he he still had one ofthose box TVs with the wooden
veneer around the edge of it.
I think he had all those untillike 2012 or something, because
you just like, well, it stillworks.
It actually doesn't dad, it'scompletely green, but you can't

(38:14):
see it.
So just get yourself a propertelling.
So yeah, I remember thatrubbing off on me, you know,
trying to be resourceful.
And then the resourcefulnessleads to resilience because you
know, you can be resourceful allyou want, but it might not
work, and you've got to do itagain and do it again and do it
again.
So, you know, and it'll besomething simple, like you know,
you're driving in the bush inthe rain and you get stuck in

(38:34):
the mud.
You're like, well, like I can'tjust call it a tow truck
because we're in the middle ofnowhere.
You know, if we're here toolong, the lions and elephants
are gonna come.
Or let's get stuck, you know,we need to get out of the mud.
So you've you know, you'rethrowing the car mats out and
you're digging and you'rethrowing rocks underneath, and
you're reversing it back andforth, back and forth, and
you're working out what worksand what doesn't work, and

(38:56):
eventually you get up.
And then, you know, all thoselittle experiences as a kid
definitely gave me that mindsetof trying to fix stuff.
I think I definitely have apart of me.
And that's probably a littlebit of the monkey there as well
that likes to break stuff andfix it and do stuff with my
hands.
But you know, finding asolution to fix a problem is
definitely ingrained in me froma young age, and that really

(39:17):
transfers well into themulti-day ultra injured and
stuff where things aren't goingwrong, when things are going
wrong or are difficult orbroken, now be very resourceful.
Right, I need to make a planhere.
This is what I can control,this is what I can't control.
Let's write a list, let's seewhat's the the optimum to make
this get out of the situation asquick as possible, and then you
implement that and inevitablythat sets the ball rolling for

(39:40):
you to overcome whatever issueyou're in at the moment.

I can imagine, you know, and having having read
before this as well, you know,like the number of things that
you've had to, you know, endureand get out of as well is yeah,
that that resilience and andresourcefulness is is is really
important.
Going back to your uh yourbook, the Iron 105, you uh
talked about struggling to beable to make friends, and part

(40:04):
of the motivation was aconnection.
Did that work for you?
And has endurance sports helpedyou find that connection or or
that belonging?

Absolutely.
Firstly, I I don't want tosound like you know a bit of
misery sitting at home going,oh, I don't have any mates.
Like I have I have really goodfriends, but what I meant in the
book is I just moved to NorthWales and then it was COVID.
So I sort of spent the firstfew years in in North Wales, you
know, just stuck in the house,really, not meeting anyone.
So that that was sort of partof my journey of of sort of kind

(40:35):
of wanting your I call it thesnowball of life.
You know, you with a snowflake,you're gonna, you know, float
down and you either gonna freezeor melt in this in the one
spot, or if you want, and thisis up to you, you can take that
first step forward to create abit of momentum, and then
someone will join your your uhyour snowflake.
And eventually the more peoplethat join, it becomes this sort

(40:57):
of real, you know, I call it thesnowball of life.
And and the the bigger thesnowball, the more people
actually want to join.
It's incredible how just thatworks.
People are attracted to afast-moving ship, you know.
No one wants to join a sinkingship, so you know, but you've
got to make that first step.
You know, if you don't, you'lljust melt or freeze, right?
And community is one of the10.5 pillars, and that over time

(41:19):
I've realized has just as muchimportance as all the other
pillars in the in the in the10.5 pillars.
Because it never used to be.
And I've I always sort ofthought, oh well, it's just
community out on my own.
And yeah, okay, I might havesome coaches and trainers and
practice and nutritionists andthat sort of thing, but really
it's me, I'm just doing it allby myself.
But really, it's just not muchfun.

(41:41):
You know, find your tried, findyour people, find your
community, and just life'sbetter when you find the same
sort of people who have the samesort of thoughts as you and
have the same philosophy.
And also in the world ofendurance and things, you know,
two you on your own as you onyour own, you and one other
person who's the right personequals three people.

(42:03):
And you and four or five of theright people equals a hundred
people, you know.
And it's important aboutnurturing those people and and
choosing wisely the people whoyou want in your snowball.
Because you can get people whojoin your snowball for ulterior
motives or toxic people who justwant their they want to be part
of the momentum, and they canbring you down, you know,
because often in a team, theteam will often, and this has

(42:25):
been proven, will sort of kindof sync to the lowest performing
person.
So it's really important tolike get everyone, lift lift
everyone up.
Don't put people down, liftthem up, get everyone together,
get everyone excited, and getthat momentum.
And that's why our community isis on my 10.5 pillars, because
it's just that energy and thatthat sort of connection with

(42:45):
other like-minded people, it'sjust so important.
And same in business, it's whenyou employ people, you've got
to find those people, right?
As well.
You don't want someone bringingeveryone down.
You want the really nice, solidgroup of people in your
snowball.
And then you'll just find iteasier.
Even though I was it was stillme doing it, I still needed the
two Chris, Justin, Phil, Ryan,Simon, you know, everyone in

(43:08):
that my crew, day-to-day crew,were just incredible.
You know, they were justincredible.
Without them, it would havebeen impossible really to do it.
So yeah, it's it's it's reallytaught me a lesson, that
community element of endurance,really.

I think it's one of the things that I took
most from our Lanzent JohnnyGroce cycle ride.
You know, there's five of usall doing, all embarking on this
journey together.
You know, some of us had almostvery little multi-day
experience.
You obviously have huge amountsof multi-day experience, but
sort of that building of thattribe together and kind of

(43:41):
helping each other.
We all had kind of momentswhere we were not on top of the
the the I don't know at ourbest, and then sort of
supporting each other throughthat.
I think it was it was really,really powerful.
And I also love the fact thatyou set a new PB while we're
going from Lands End to John ofGroats by being with us, so that
was really cool.
But what did you so we'reobviously all new to that Land's

(44:02):
End to John of Ghostexperience, but you've done it
many times in many differentformats.
What did you take from theexperience of cycling from Lands
End to John of Groats with usbeginners?

Well, it made me realise sort of a couple of
things actually.
One is how much I actuallyreally enjoyed being a part of
it, you know, even though I'ddone almost every single road
we'd cycle on, except the bit inScotland where we cut cut
north.
I hadn't done that bet throughEdinburgh and the Kangorn, so
that was exciting.
And also B, I feel like Ialmost, and I wish I'd done this

(44:37):
before, really, because yeah, Idid my first dance in genre,
it's 2008.
I I feel like I've not giventhe community back enough in the
form of just being that mentor,that figurehead, that person
who can put on these events thatpeople can sign up for and
join.
And because of that, I'veactually now, as of, well, we'll

(44:58):
watch this space, it's gonnahappen soon, by a big meeting
tomorrow.
I'm gonna be launching the SeanConway Adventure Series, where
which will be cycling based, andyou'll be able to come and join
me.
There'll be four events aroundthe world, all cycling based,
all a week long, and it it'll bethe Sean Conway Adventure
Series, and I'll be at each one,hosting each one, telling
people how to do it.
There'll be a bit of fun, bitof dancer, pretty much exactly

(45:20):
how we did it, nice evenings outand that sort of thing.
So, yeah, it's made me sort ofsuddenly realize actually that
was that was really good.
And I I'm sort of kickingmyself that I just because I was
offered these things, you know,when I swam the length of
Britain and then the fame andthe Discovery Channel
documentaries and then theAmazon documentaries.
During that period, which isnearly 10 years ago now, I had
all this stuff come to me and Iwas like, oh no, I don't know.

(45:41):
I had all these excuses andreasons why I shouldn't do it.
And and I'm kicking myself nowbecause I think I've missed an
opportunity to make thecommunity bigger.
I think people would have got alot from it.
So now I've got some catchingup to do.
So yeah.
So hopefully every year we'regonna run this this this
four-part uh Sean Conwayadventure series.
So yeah, watch this space, it'sgonna be fun.

I am very excited about that.
I think I think you can you canmake sure I'm on the
distribution list for thatbecause I think uh I think it so
I learned a huge amount fromyou just I remember going into
the McDonald's in I can't evenremember where we were,
somewhere sort of on theScottish border.
And I would have normally, Imean, normal, I can't, I think
it was probably 25 years sinceI'd actually stepped foot into

(46:23):
McDonald's.
But even if I'd been, you know,it was a it was somewhere that
I would have been regularly, Iwould have been like, oh, I
think I fancy the flavor ofthis, or I like the what's the
healthy option.
Sean just goes straight to thecalorie list and goes, right,
that's the highest calories,that's the second highest
calories.
I'll have those two, please.

Yeah, well, it's it's me, you know, I'm going
back to my superpower of I microanalyze and micromanage
everything.
And you know, two of the thepillars is there's uh nutrition
and hydration and then recoveryand over and well and
experience, you know, that'sthat's the other one.
Experience is another pillar.
So, you know, I wasimplementing three of those
pillars in that moment, right?
Experience said straight aftera ride, I need calories and and

(47:03):
I need some well, I need somefat, I need some carbs, I need
some protein, I need somehydration, and that sort of
ticks the nutrition hydration.
I need a bit of salt as well,that ticks the nutrition and
hydration, and also the recoveryside.
You know, part of the recoveryis sleep, and then also part of
the recovery is must musclemanagement as well, which are
also some of the other pillars.
And yeah, it's sort of, I getso frenzied on it almost, you

(47:26):
know.
Like, because I know throughexperience, I know that actually
right now, priority one, foodand hydration, which was more
than sleep, more than a shower.
Because everyone, all you guysare like, oh, I'm gonna go for a
shower and chill out.
I'm like, no, no, no, I'm gonnago and eat and then have my
shower and then I'm gonna eatagain.
How many, yeah?
There's a couple of times whatwe got into like a weather
spoons, didn't we?

(47:46):
I went to have a meal on myown, then went and showered.
I'm still in my dirty cyclingkit.
Everyone's looking at me like,this is weirdo.
But that was priority one.
I knew I needed to eat.
So I ate, went and showered,came back and had my second
meal.
So I never I lost no weight onlandstonic roads.
I was never in a caloriedeficit.
And I mean, I'm still slow onthe hills, right?
I was waiting for you to bringthat one up, but uh you didn't,

(48:07):
so I was.
You saved me the bother.
So yeah, that that was yeah,that's all part of it.
And I really feel like youknow, I want to shared that
knowledge with people.
So I'm excited about yeah,putting on the series really.

You the series, by the way, I agree with Charlie,
sounds amazing.
Um, I think both of our bucketlists are huge.
So that's definitely going tobe on it.
So, in terms of nutrition,hydration, like with all the
challenges that you, all theadventures that you've had, and
you also talk about one of yourother pillars being experienced,
what have you learned reallyhard lessons in?

(48:40):
So when it comes to nutritionand hydration, what has really
made you rethink your strategyor seek out help?

Yeah, that's a really good question.
The thing with nutritionalhydration, on 90% of the records
I've done, is I've had I've hadvery little options.
So I there's not there's beenvery few times where I've had a
choice for nutritionalhydration.
So the first thing I've learnedis it's better, especially in
the multi-day stuff where you'regonna potentially be in a
calorie deficit.
Like the Iron Man's, I was8,000 calories a day was my burn

(49:10):
rate.
We monitored that with heartrate and actually what I was
eating and my weights every day.
I was, yeah, I was goingthrough 8,000 calories a day.
If I was 7,000 calories a dayfor a week, I would maybe lose
muscle.
And if I lost the wrong muscle,I'd lose power, which meant I'd
be slower, which meant I'd haveless recovery.
And then that can be a downwardspiral.
So it got for me, and this isthis is very, very niche because

(49:34):
it probably wouldn't count foreveryone.
For me, it's almost the firstphilosophy is it's better to eat
uh the wrong thing thannothing.
Because sometimes you think,oh, well, that's not so good for
me.
Actually, for me, it's oftenjust a calorie number.
I just I'm doing multi-daystuff.
Yes, am I going to perform thebest on it?
Probably not, but it'll stop melosing weight.
And and and and that for me wassort of almost the most

(49:55):
important thing.
So on the iron hands, I wasdowning 2,500 calories of full
fat cream every single day,which meant I didn't lose
weight.
Well, I did.
I I lost three kgs in the 105days, a kg a month, pretty much,
which for me I think isphenomenal.
I I started two kgs heavier.
The first two I got down to torace weight, which for me is
about 68 kgs.

(50:16):
And I got dropped to 67.
You can actually see my timestart getting a bit slower when
I lost that last kg, becausethat was muscle, really.
But you know, I still didpretty good.
I mean, I did a double iron manand lost three kgs or four kgs
like a couple of years ago in in48 hours.
So yeah, I was pretty happywith that.
So yeah, for me, it wasimportant to uh sort of just eat
anything really, and that'ssort of what I've learned in my

(50:38):
stuff.
But as I said, it's that's notreally how most people listening
to this who don't really doweek-long and month-long things.
And the other thing also isjust I cut out the sugar stuff.
Yeah, that's that's neverreally w worked for me.
I I I I don't feel good either.
Doesn't give me energy, so Itend to just try and eat natural
food.
Or chewy, chewy bars, you know,something that's a bit easier

(51:01):
to chew.
I don't really do gels.
I have done them in the past,and the faster things I'm doing
now with higher heart rate gelsare good.
The gels now are very, verygood.
So I'm testing out differentgels at the moment.
So yeah, that's sort of that'sbeen my nutritional journey.
But it's it's basically justeat everything.

I guess you know, you're talking about uh, you
know, this experience, and youknow, your gut has to get used
to everything that you're takingon.
And if that's really limited,it's got to get used to it,
hasn't it?
What kind of limit like youtalked about downing that cream,
but what other limited foodchoices do you mean?
Like what kind of give us someexamples of what that might have
been other than other thancream boards.

Yeah, I mean, you know, so the the the I've only
done two things with a fullsupport crew, swimming the
length of Britain and IronMonified.
Everything else I've beenself-supported, traveling across
countries, which is normallymeant me just running into
service stations or things.
So, like for example, in SouthAmerica, you know, I'm just
running into a cafe, you know,the clock's ticking, I need to
order quickly.
And sometimes what I would dothere, just because of a

(52:00):
language barrier, is I'd look atall the plates of people.
As I'm walking through, peopleare sitting down with plates of
food, and I could scan veryquickly what I think would be
the best for me.
So it'll be a bit of meat,either rice, or if it was, you
know, if it was rice or pasta,I'd always choose rice, rice or
potato, I'd probably choosepotato or rice, I'd mix them up
and then a choosing meat.
But it's South America.

(52:20):
So I'm looking at somethingthat looks a little bit like a
guinea pig.
I'm like, well, I don't know,I'll have that, please, because
that's the only dish I could seewith meat on it.
So yeah, there's been that.
And then like in Russia, when Icycled across Europe, I did
1,200 miles of Russia.
And that was you'd you'relegally allowed to cycle on
motorways in Russia, which isstupid, but you are, so you have
to to break the record,otherwise you just won't break

(52:41):
the record.
So I'm just diving into servicestations.
And I it's it's I know it's acliche, but literally their
service stations was like halfof it was crisps and the other,
half was vodka.
So I'm just like, oh well, I'lljust have crisps.
So I'm trying to live on likecrisps and rubbish, just
whatever you get in servicestations, really, which is not
not optimal, but you just got todo it really.
You've got to do it.
And and you do get quite goodat at you know working out, you

(53:04):
know, a bag of crisps is 500calories per 100 grams, which is
pretty amazing, actually.
It's really, and it's got salt,it's got fat, it's got carbs.
So and you know, I put a biteof little hole in the crisps,
crunch them up, squeeze all theair out, crunch all the crisps
up, open the packet, and you canjust pour them in your mouth,
and you can have a whole bag inlike 20 to 30 seconds, really.

That's a top tip.

Yeah, and then with a bit of water in your mouth,
you swirl it around, chew, chew,chew, boom.
You know, bananas, don't chewthe banana.
If you want slow energy, youswallow them in chunks, and
that's like a slow release gel.
So there's lots of those sortof things where I just run in
and just grab whatever I can.
And it's never optimal.
It's never, never optimal.
But as I said, it's better toeat the wrong thing than

(53:43):
nothing.
Because once you lose too muchweight, the power goes, the
speed goes, your cognitiveability goes, everything goes.
You might just just eat, youknow.

And it works for you.

So that's that's just yeah, just about, you know,
but which is why supportiveattempts are so much quicker
than self-supported, because A,you're not carrying anything,
but B, you've got all thenutrition, and you've worked
that out before.
You know what you can eat, yougot someone feeding you, you
know.
Like when I did the themarathon leg of the Iron Man's,
you Phil, who was my crew on therun, he was cycling next to me
and he had bottles with powdersin and crisps and some pasta

(54:15):
meals, and and you just knewlike 20 minutes, like sure,
drink now.
And even if I was moaning,like, my stomach, oh, I don't
want to like she's like, you doit, mate, you do it.
You know you're gonna, youknow, hate me tomorrow if you
don't.
I'm like, yeah, okay, fairenough.

Fantastic.
So I guess the big question is,you know, what what's next?
You know, you're talking aboutthings that are in your calendar
in 2035, but what bigchallenges are next in your
mind?
Are there things out there thatstill really scare you or maybe
let's say excite you?
Uh, probably in the samesentence.

Yeah, I mean, I've got so many.
I mean, the first thing I wouldsay is I still owe Caroline
quite a few sort of childcaredays, so which I'm actually
quite enjoying, to be honest.
You know, pay it's payback timenow.
So yeah, I I don't know if I'mhungry for something very, very
long where I'm away from thefamily.
My boys are still young,they're only six and three.

(55:08):
So it'd be nice for them to bea little bit older so that they
can be part of the journey.
And you know, nowadays withconnectivity, they can really
feel like part of it.
I've actually set up my TV athome so I can do video calls on
the big TV.
So if I'm away from the kids,you know, they're not just like
chatting to me on a phone.
Like they're there, they can Ican put my phone around and they
can see where I am in theworld, and that's quite exciting

(55:29):
for them.
And they're getting to an agenow where they're starting to
work out that wow, daddy's inthis country.
Wow, that's pretty cool.
Well, the older one is theyounger one that doesn't really
know yet.
But uh yeah, so but thenthere's little stuff, yeah.
There's a little stuff likethat on my bucket list, which
you know, are they harder than105 Iron Man's?
Probably not.
I don't think I'll do anythingas hard as that physically and
mentally, just because there'sno off-button, there's no

(55:50):
averaging on that record.
But that's still hard for me.
You know, there's like thetunnel race, the run called the
tunnel.
It's one mile, it's a one miletunnel which you run back and
forth 200 times, 200 mile race.
That would be very difficultfor me.
I've never done that before.
So, you know, there's thosesort of events that I'm quite
excited about doing, along withmy youth sport work.
I've just got super motivatedto do more youth sport work.

(56:11):
So I was talking to Charlieabout I own a particular website
that I've got big grand visionsfor in the world of youth
sports.
So hopefully going to activatethat, yeah, pretty soon, really,
to get that up and running.
Yeah, so that's all part ofthese, again, these long-term,
long-term goals.
But yeah, the terrier, back toyour original question.
So the terrier is still asleepafter the Iron Man.
Let's put it that way.
He's not he's not woken up foranything crazy difficult yet,

(56:34):
which my wife's very happyabout.

And are all the all of your adventures, you've
ended up inspiring literallythousands, maybe hundreds of
thousands of people.
And but what I what I'minterested in is what other
endurance achievements completedby others have you been
inspired by?
Maybe something, you know, somethings in recent years that

(56:56):
people have have achieved,records that have been set that
you've thought, wow, that wasthat was really phenomenal.

So of everyone who's broken all these big
records, there's probablythere's only a couple that I
look at and go, I don't think Icould do that.
One is Mark Beaumont's Roundthe World in 80 Days on the
bike.
I've looked at the figures, Ijust don't think I could push
that power to get that averagespeed.
You know, he's 85 kgs, I'm 68.
You know, my power, becauseit's a flat course, and someone

(57:23):
bigger on a flat course is gonnapush more power.
Yeah, you know, I can tucksmaller potentially, but you
just have to have so many starsalive to break Mark Beaumont's
record.
It's incredible.
That's 78 days to cycle aroundthe world is phenomenal,
including transitions, right?
So you know, he's averaging 240miles a day.
Yeah.
Even on the days where he hasto fly.

(57:44):
I mean, it was just yeah, whichmeans if there's a day he only
does 200, he's got to do 280 thenext day to have it out again.
Yeah, it's incredible.
So that was amazing.
And then some of Ross Edgely'sbig long swims recently, where
he's done 60 hours to make I'mlike, that is very I think I
could maybe do that if I reallyjust threw all my eggs into into
one basket, into the swimmingbasket.

(58:05):
But that's been veryimpressive.
His his swims have been really,really phenomenal.
Um, so yeah, those two are ofsome of the recent ones.
And then, you know, obviouslythere's some obviously really
difficult rivers like DianaNyad's Cuba to Florida swim.
That was incredible.
If anyone hasn't watched TEDTalks, amazing.
They made a Netflix brought outa film called Nyad about it,
and that took her like 30 yearsor something.

(58:26):
Yeah, that was incredible toachieve.
I actually failed five times,right?
Such a good story.
So yeah, those are those aresome of them.
Yeah, well, they're just comingto me.
I had the hammer, highestannual mileage record.
Amanda Cocker has that record.
She did want to see uh eighty,eighty thousand, eighty-five
thousand in a year.
200 it's like 210 miles a dayfor the whole year on the bike.

(58:48):
Yeah, it's incredible.
Yeah, super.
I think I could do that one.
I think I could do that one,but it's still very impressive.

It's absolutely absolutely incredible.
And then and then sort ofswitching this onto books,
you've obviously you mentionedthat you've written eight books,
I think that's right.
Eight and I dare say there'swell, I know there's another one
in the in the pipeline, but Ithink it's it's aimed at your
grandchildren.
So share, share with us thatthe concept of that book.

You know what?
So I bet you, and there's I'vehad a hundred percent success
rate on this.
I've asked, everyone I've everasked on this.
I I've said, how do you do youthink your grandparents led a
very unique and interestinglife?
Everyone I asked is oh, yeah,absolutely.
And you know, my grandparentstook the steamboat from England
and Ireland to Africa and landedup in Zimbabwe.

(59:34):
You know everyone, 100% ofpeople say it, no matter how old
they are.
I've asked people who are now16, 70, I've asked people who
are 20.
I was like, none of them wroteanything down, you know.
And I was like, man, I wishthey had just written down what
they did.
So now I've actually I'vewritten about 45,000, 50,000

(59:55):
words into it, and I think Imight just call it dear
grandkids, but it's literally abook.
Has written to my futuregrandkids, and it's telling them
about my African childhood, myyears at school, then my 10
years in London as aphotographer.
Everything up till theadventure stuff, because I've
got the eight books now fromthen on, from 30 onwards, right?
But you know, there's all thestories about me as a kid

(01:00:17):
growing up in Africa and atschool, and which I think would
be fun for them to read.
Like I wish I had those storiesfrom my grandparents.
So yeah, once when I publishthat book, it's sort of going to
be a two-parter publication.
Well, like two a prongedapproach.
One is I just gotta publish thebook and maybe people will read
it.
But the second one is I reallywant to actually more push this
idea that everyone should writea dear grandkid's book.

(01:00:39):
You don't have to think, and wetalked about this, because you
know, the idea of writing abook, you get overwhelmed by it.
But you know, I've sent I'vesent you the draft, I just wrote
little chapters.
This is the story about thehyena coming in the house, and
this is the story about menearly drowning the first time,
and this is the story about menearly drowning the second time,
uh, or me nearly jumping on alion.
So and I sort of just brokendown into all these little

(01:00:59):
one-page little mini stories.
So yeah, I think the I thinkthe book's gonna be called A
Diary of a Kid from Africa andmade sort of you know, two of my
future grandkids or somethingas a subtitle.
But uh I love it.

Charlie Reading (01:01:11):
I love writing, I love it.
It's it's I think yeah, I thinkit's a really good idea.
And I what I really liked aboutit was so I having written four
books, I've written some of thekind of stories that are
important to me, but there'sother stories that just don't
have a place in any of thosebooks, like the story of how
Carol and I got together is notin any of those books, and yeah,
it should be written down forfor the grandkids.

(01:01:33):
So I I think it's a I thinkit's I think it's a beautiful
thing.
And of course, and I will haveasked you this right uh in the
first time you had you on thepodcast, but what books written
by others have inspired you onyour journey or do you find
yourself recommending to otherpeople?

Sean Conway (01:01:47):
Wow, that's a good question.
I love just sports men andwomen's autobiographies, and one
that I really did like wasChris Froom's one, because he
really sort of I feel like wehad a similar connection, you
know.
Chris Froom's book, he youknow, grew up in Kenya, and you
know, there's him hustling,trying to get onto races, you
know, in the back of his carwith the bike turning up with

(01:02:08):
the ronkit.
And you know, he had thisreally amazing mentor in Africa
to trained him and got himbetter.
He his was a real zero-to-herostory, which I really enjoyed,
you know.
That's probably one that sticksout because I have a kinship to
his story, also having grown upin Africa and that sort of
thing.
So yeah, I did I did enjoyChris Shrooms.
I mean, it was written quite awhile ago now, but I do enjoy

(01:02:30):
that one.

Brilliant.
And then we have a closingtradition on the podcast where
we get the last guest to ask thenext guest a question without
knowing who that is going to befor.
And I think Claire has got JiaoAndre's question for you.

Claire Fudge (01:02:42):
So Jiao asks, what's something you've never
shared publicly that helpedshape who you are today?

Oh, that's a good question.
Something I've never reallytalked about is from quite a
young age, I was like a realentrepreneur in my teens.
And I think that hustle as anentrepreneur, when I say
entrepreneur, so at school, Iwas just really hustling to try
and sort of like make money andmake I don't think that was the
goal to make money.
I just like the idea ofstarting something and and

(01:03:12):
trying to do things.
So, for example, I became thehouse barber at my school with
just you know for 50p to get ahaircut, but it was clippers
only.
I wasn't good enough withscissors.
So if you wanted something withclippers, I could do that 50p.
I also had a secret tuck shop,the secret I had a uh so I hid
this trunks at school and on theplayground, people would be a
short now.
Yeah, you've got some you know,super C's, which is a suite, a

(01:03:35):
famous suite you could buy.
And I'd be like yeah, yeah,five Rand or whatever.
So I did that.
I then also became a you know,I was I'd sell pick photos
around the school.
So on Saturday I'd go andphotograph all the sports
matches and then get the filmdeveloped, and then I'm around
the dining wall on the Mondayshowing everyone a picture.
I'm like, oh Kevin, mate, lookat this picture of you scoring a
try, come on, you know.

(01:03:55):
And then I'd go just give mecash, you know, or give me, you
know, we trade and hang away,whatever.
And yeah, I mean it was made, Iwasn't really making any money,
actual money, but I quite likedthe idea of just being in that
little world.
And I think that sort of when Ithat's coming back actually.
So when I then got intophotography and I started
hustling for like more jobs anddoing all that sort of thing, I

(01:04:18):
got quite excited.
When the photography justreally didn't pan out like I'd
hoped, I really sort of becameanti-that for a while, probably
for a good, you know, six,seven, eight, nine, ten years,
really.
And I'm finding that's comingback now.
And I'm really excited becauseI've got quite a few business
ideas.
You know, I talked brieflyabout this website I want to
start.
There's a couple of other booksthat are sort of more based

(01:04:40):
around the 10.5 pillars anddifferent products that I can,
you know, give out to people forthat and and sell that that
way.
So yeah, I it's it's weird howI did it early on, and I think
that really helped me just againbe resourceful in the way I
think about things and approachthings, and then you know, I
then buried it for a bit, butit's coming back now.

(01:05:00):
And I'm very I'm actually quiteexcited by it by starting all
these little side projects likethe Sean Conway Adventure
series, like this website I'mgonna put together and and
various other things.
So, yeah, that that's somethingI've actually genuinely never
never talked about.
The sort of the time I used tobe a hairdresser, sweep it, you
know, like hustling about thebottom of my shoes.
I felt like I was at the greatescape, you know.

I love I love I love I love the idea of this
sort of emerging over the courseof the next few years.
I'm really excited to see wherethis plays out.
And and in particular with theseries, they're obviously having
benefited from being a part ofthat Lazan Troller Gross ride.
Can you give us any more sortof clues as to what that might
look like?

Or so I'm I've not actually penned anything.
So I'm actually uh I think partof the journey is going to be
putting it out to people to sayif you had a week to cycle
somewhere, where would that withme, what would that look like?
Is it across Iceland?
Is it the length of Vietnam?
Is it seven days of the Tour deFrance?
I don't know.
You know, is it the whole Alps?
Because you could pretty muchdo follow the arc of the Alps in

(01:06:01):
seven days, I reckon.
Is it the Pyrenees back andforth?
Yeah, whatever, you know, is itthe Atacama Desert?
Um, is it the Sahara?
So that's it's sort of likereally in the early stages of
putting this thing together,which is going to be very, very
exciting.
I I literally had, you know, Ihad an email about it.
Someone approached me, youknow, about a month ago, and I
sort of just didn't do anythingabout it.

(01:06:22):
Because I had these other,these other plans, which are
which are not happening now,which now allows me to have this
conversation tomorrow, really.
So I'm not, it's I'm very earlydays.
So you're the pretty much firstpeople to hear about it.
I don't even think I've talkedCaroline.
I only confirmed the meetinghalf an hour before this
recording.
So yeah.

Well, I am definitely excited to hear about
it.
That's amazing.
And what we'll do is like thisthis won't this recording won't
go out on the podcast for a fewweeks.
So if you've got a bit moresubstance to it by then, or a or
a link to a page about it, wecan put that in the show notes.
But yeah, I'm very excited andyeah, I'd love to uh share my
opinion of where I think thoseshould be going as well.

(01:07:03):
So that's really cool.

You're gonna choose some hills to beat me up again
a bit.

I like the Alpine Adventure one, as I think
we talked about sort of GenevaTunis would be uh would be a
very cool one.
And yeah, we want to see youwork on the hills as well.

Did uh Modvant 2 a couple of weeks ago, and I I
thought I was doing well.
I think I was hit you knowpushing 230, 240 watts up the
whole way.
You know, I'm quite liked, so Iwas pretty happy with that.
You know, that's nearly justunder three, four watts per kg.
I'm pretty happy with that.
And I got to the top thinking,surely I've done okay on this
climb.
Preferencing, you know, peopleoften think I'm a really good

(01:07:39):
climber, but actually I'm not,because most of my records have
been sort of time trials,really.
Like my cross Europe is prettyflat, my round the world is
pretty flat.
You know, most of them havebeen pretty flat.
So I've never really exercisedbig hill climbing, which
surprises people becauseeveryone thinks I'm short and
light, I'll be amazing, but I'vejust never done it.
So, but this time I thought,well, I must be pretty good.
And then I went on stravalater, and that my position on

(01:08:00):
the leaderboard was 69,990.
Top 70,000 though.
70,000.
230 watts the whole way for twohours.
I don't know how people justthose those climbers are just
another breed, aren't they?
Wow.
Yeah, did you so so how longdid it take you?

One hour 57, I think.
And did you look because theydid more more Mont Vantu in the
tour this year, didn't they?
54 minutes.
Did you 54 minutes?
Wow, that is incredible.
This that is incredible.
Yeah, it really yeah, it doeshighlight how amazing what they
do is.
Sean, it's been an absolutepleasure chatting to you again,
as always.
As always, you deliver somebrilliant stories, some humours,

(01:08:38):
but also some amazing lessons,not just in the world of
endurance sport, but also inlife and health as well.
So huge thank you foreverything you've done to
inspire others.
Huge thank you for sharing someof that with us today.
And can't wait to see where itgoes next and to hear more about
the uh entrepreneurial journey.

Yeah, thanks, thanks, Charlie.
Thanks, Claire.
It's been awesome, nice one.

So, what did you make of the chat with Sean?

Amazing.
I mean, you've interviewed himright at the very beginning when
this was Tribathlon, of course.
So it was amazing.
It was amazing to have aslightly different discussion
with him as well.
But my God, like I I think hejust is, you know, if he had a
dictionary definition ofendurance, I think he would he
would be it, wouldn't he?

I actually think he doesn't get anywhere
near the credit he deserves for.
I mean, like, we onlyfleetingly talked about his swim
from Land's End to John ofGroats, his fastest cycle across
Europe, his furthest trathlon,because we talked about them in
episode one.
And and I'd really encouragepeople to go back and listen to
that original episode.
I think you'll find it's a verydifferent.

(01:09:39):
Hopefully, we've got a I've gota little bit more professional
since I interviewed him.
But just like we obviously onlywe barely touched on those.
Those were huge achievements,but to then throw in Iron 105 as
well, plus there's also so manymore that we didn't even
mention, whether it's hisoriginal Lanz Edge John Agrake's
bike ride, whether it was himcycling.

(01:10:00):
What I mean, the he's mentionedhe threw in the Central America
piece.
Yeah.
But we didn't talk about thatat all, cycling around the
world, all of those sorts ofthings.
Just incredible.
So, what were the lessons thatyou you took from it?

Do you know?
I mean, I really love the bitactually, obviously, science
backgrounds.
I like a lot of bit of science.
He talked about actually, youknow, some of the like the one,
um, the 105, for example, uh, hetalked about, you know, a lot
of people thinking, well, it's Ican't even comprehend it.
And the the fact that peoplealmost disengage from it a
little bit, like, well, that'scrazy.

(01:10:34):
Like he must be somebodydifferent.
So I really love the fact thathe's trying to actually show
people what is possible andactually what's impossible
inside us.
And you know, he was saying,you know, that's not just
fiction.
There is science to supportthis, it's factual.
Like you are capable of doingit.
So I loved, I loved that partbecause actually helping other
people to be able to achievetheir goals, it might not be as

(01:10:56):
big as that, but that actuallythat anybody could achieve that.
So I really, I really likedthat.
I loved his analogy, actually.
I know, you know, there's lotsof people have read about the
monkey, can't remember theactual name of the idea.
The chimp paradox.
The chimp paradox, yeah.
But I love this idea of hislike creative side, which you
can see coming out actually, andthat kind of fun side, and this

(01:11:16):
analogy of the terrier of like,you know, I've just got to go
and get it, I've just got to goand do it.
And that's really interestingbecause I I was thinking about
business and also enduranceathletes at this point.
And I just thought, I can seethat in a lot of business
professionals that really makeit, or an entrepreneur that
really wants something and theygo and get it.
And you know, the same for anendurance athlete.
Actually, I'm just gonna go anddo it.
So I liked I loved thatanalogy.

(01:11:38):
Interesting that his terrier isa little bit quiet in the
moment as well.

Well, it sounds like it's wore out still, I
should think.
Yeah.
I mean, that's the same, that'sthe same with just picking up
something very new.
Yeah, I think I think, but Ithink, yeah, it's interesting,
isn't it?
How he said it's just tired atthe moment, so it's not it's not
active, but it'll become activeagain.
But I think I think you'reright.
I I think what I loved aboutthe way he talked about goal
setting.
Like I love the fact that hesaid, you know, even if you're s

(01:12:02):
if your goal, if your currentgoal is to do the couch to 5k,
put a 10-year goal in of ahundred mile or a hundred
kilometre run because it's likeit seems so ludicrous, but he's
absolutely right.
What you can achieve over thelong term, we massively
underestimate.
We overestimate what we canachieve, achieve in the short
term.
So and I loved his approachwhen he was doing the IM 105 of

(01:12:25):
saying, well, okay, I I need toget faster, but I can't just
knock two hours off my time inthe next two or three days.
So I've got to just work on oneidea to get to knock five
minutes off, and then one moreidea to knock another five
minutes off.
Because those so it's uh likewe said, it's easier to find a
hundred one percent gains thanit is to find one one hundred

(01:12:46):
percent gains.

I thought that was my idea of micromanaging, like
I often talk with my clientsabout this, you know, this idea
of actually looking at everysingle layer, and I guess that's
some of the one percent aswell, isn't it?
But you know, actually whatwhat can I change right now that
isn't a huge change, but just asmall change because I've got
all the data to show it.
So what am I gonna tweak andtweak and change for that?

(01:13:07):
So I liked that.
Along with there's no plan B.
I was interested by this.

There's no safety net.

Yeah.
I get I I I I could really seewhere he was coming from though,
because actually, if you giveyourself, I don't know, let's
say if you were if you werecycling or if you've got a
business plan and you say, well,you know, if I don't hit the
target, we will go for thisbecause this is the bet the next
best option.
Or, you know, if you're givenan option that on the way home
from a 100-mile cycle, you cango the flat route or up over a

(01:13:35):
hill, you know, a lot of peoplemay may duck out.
So I do get that idea of like,if that is your goal, that is
where you're gonna go.

Well, as Tony Robbins said, if you're gonna
take the island, you've got toburn the boats.
You've got to have, you've got,you've got, you've got to only
have one option.
And that's what I supposethat's what it takes to achieve
the insane levels of ofendurance that he he's done.
Really intrigued by his hismonkey and terrier kind of
analogy of the his two mindsets.

(01:14:03):
And I really I'm gonna do a bitmore.
I've never kind of dug into Imeant when I was sort of
chatting to someone on the jogabout it, I thought, I wonder
what other animals are in thatmodel.
It's not a model I'm familiarwith.
I know I talk a lot about theColbier index and the print
assessment and things like that,which he sort of alluded to
with whether you're a starter ora finisher.

(01:14:24):
But but I don't know muchabout, I don't know anything
more about what animals would Ihave making up my my mindset.
So yeah, I thought that was Ithought that was really, really
interesting.
Anything, any final takeaways?

Anything I think, I think one of the, you know,
one of the great takeaways aswell is you know having this
this idea of community and team.
He talked about actually it wasafter COVID, wasn't it, needing
to get that community and teamback.
But actually, it's so true thatby having, we talked about it a
lot, haven't we?
Like having the right peoplearound you.
And you talk about it a lot inthe trusted team, about actually

(01:14:59):
the team that you have aroundyou supporting you in your
business is so important to havethe right people in the right,
not sorry, in the right seeds,but the right people in your
business, you know, to supportyou.
And that snowball effect in oneway or the other, you know,
whether that's actually going todrag you down or whether it's
actually gonna help you to getto where you need to be, and
people then wanting to come inbecause it looks nice and the

(01:15:20):
environment's great and theywant to join you.
So I really like that.

That tribe thing is really important.
And in terms of nutrition, Imean I I remember sitting
opposite him at breakfast whenhe's like emptying these packets
of butter into his porridge sothat he's he's upping the
calorie and like pouring sachetsof salt into his his glass of
water, and yeah, like his hishis order at McDonald's was one
extra large milkshake and and afries.

(01:15:44):
That was that was it.
So what did you what did youtake from his approach to
nutrition?

I think a number of things.
And I'd love, of course, I'dlove to have dived in way deeper
to that.
But I can I can kind of see howhe's got like he talked about
his model, right, and andexperience.
And I think this is reallytrue.
One, that when you when you'redoing stuff and you're not going
super fast, you're at a lowendurance level, you need that
sustained energy.
So I get why he's having whathe's having.

(01:16:11):
And actually, he's absolutelyright.
If you're not getting thosecalories in, a total amount of
calories, day after day afterday, is gonna absolutely, you
know, have have that effect.
But from an experience point ofview, because he's essentially,
without probably even thinkingabout it, he's trained his gut
to do it.
So his gut can probablytolerate anything, you know.
So actually, yes, we have allthe theory and guidelines behind
it, but that's actually proofthat if you train yourself

(01:16:33):
properly and train your gut asan organ properly, it will work.
And you need to change whatyou're doing for the situation
that you're in.
So I'd love to have talked moreabout it, of course.

Well, I think I think if if you get the
opportunity to join one of hisbike rides and and learn as to
how he or see it it firsthand,it's just a totally different
approach to anything I've everwitnessed before because I'm
thinking healthy, he's thinkingI don't want to deplete any, I
don't want any caloriedepletion.
So it's it's fascinating tosee.
But a really brilliantinterview, an inspiring guy, but

(01:17:04):
also a great storyteller and uhwith with with many, many
amazing stories to tell.
So um, yeah, another greatinterview on the Business of
Endurance podcast.
Um for everyone at home, keepon training.

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