Crawling Forward: The Iconic Ironman Journey Of Julie Moss

What does it take to change the course of an entire sport - and inspire millions in the process? 

Today’s guest, Julie Moss, did exactly that when she crawled across the finish line of the Ironman World Championship in 1982. That moment, broadcast to millions, didn't just redefine endurance - it redefined what the human spirit looks like under pressure. 

In this episode, Julie opens up about the real reason she was in Kona that day, the life-altering impact of that crawl, and how she's used endurance as a tool to navigate divorce, aging, and reinvention. 

We talk longevity, mental grit, racing through pain, and why endurance sport continues to be a powerful force for personal transformation. 

Whether you're chasing your first finish line or navigating your own midlife reset, this episode offers raw stories, timeless lessons, and a reminder: sometimes crawling forward is still progress.

Highlights:

• Thesis to Triathlon: Julie's journey of entering her first Ironman for a college thesis - with almost no training.
• Belonging at the Front: How worthiness clicked mid-race when she realised she could win.
• Finish-Line Fall, Global Rise: The world watched her struggle; she found transformation in those final metres.
• Partners in Performance: How her relationship with Mark Allen shaped two careers and a sport.
• Healing in Motion: Using triathlon to navigate divorce and life’s hardest chapters.
• New Hips, New Horizons: Rebuilding identity and finding fresh pursuits after hip replacement.
• Kona at 70: Eyeing a 2028 50th-anniversary return - experience over youth, wisdom over watts.
• The Brain Breaks Barriers: The mind’s command to push the body beyond its perceived limits.
• The Yes Ratio: Saying “yes” more than “no” as the gateway to extraordinary moments. 

Links:

Connect with Julie on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/julie_moss_1982/

Connect with Julie onFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/p/Julie-Moss-Page-100048855326535/

Connect with Julie on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/julie-moss-b2b43162/

Please Subscribe to Business of Endurance on Apple Podcasts, leave a comment, and give us a 5-Star review. 

This episode was sponsored by The Trusted Team and 4th Discipline

Episode Transcript

Julie Moss (00:07):
At that moment where I fell the first time because
there were four falls before Ihad to crawl, it was really
about just figuring out how tokeep moving forward, and I think
everyone who's been involved inendurance sports of any kind
has had that moment where allyou can think about is how to
keep moving forward.

Charlie Reading (00:29):
What's it take to change the course of an
entire sport and inspiremillions in the process?
Well, today's guest, julie Moss, did exactly that when she
crawled across the finish linein the Ironman World
Championship in 1982.
That moment, broadcast tomillions, didn't just redefine

(00:49):
endurance.
It redefined what the humanspirit looks like under pressure
.
In this episode, julie opens upabout the real reason she was
in Kona that day, thelife-altering impact of that
crawl and how she's usedendurance as a tool to navigate
divorce, aging and reinvention.
We talk longevity, mental grit,racing through pain, and why

(01:13):
endurance.
Sport continues to be apowerful force for personal
transformation.
So, whether you're chasing yourfirst finish line or navigating
your own midlife reset, thisepisode offers raw stories,
timeless lessons and a reminderSometimes crawling forward is

(01:33):
still progress.
So let's dive into thisincredible episode with the
legend of the world of triathlon, which is Julie Moss.
Legend of the world oftriathlon, which is Julie Moss.
Do you know what?
When we look at the back end ofthis podcast, then we see
something really interesting.
We see that 57% of the peoplethat regularly listen to it

(01:55):
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(02:19):
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Let's dive in.

(02:40):
So, julie, welcome to theBusiness of Endurance podcast.
Endurance podcast wow, I amlooking forward to talking to
you.
What an icon from the sportthat I know, claire and I love.
And I really want to start withthat moment.
That, because that moment, the6th of february, which, by the
way, is also my birthday I'msure that's not awesome, but it
was it struck a note with me.

(03:00):
The 6 6th of February 1982, notonly defined you as an
endurance athlete, but also waslike an unbelievable moment in
the world of Ironman and sparkeda global endurance movement.
I think.
So I want you to start bytaking us to that moment, that
moment that you were approachingthe Kona finish line.

(03:22):
Your first Ironman, one of thefirst Ironmans.
What were you thinking about asyou were approaching the finish
but struggling to kind of getto that finish line?

Julie Moss (03:33):
OK, charlie, you're just going to cut right to the
chase, aren't you?
The thought that was in my mindwas to win, and that wasn't
something that was very novel tome, let's just say it never
existed before, other than, youknow, playing Monopoly or
something as a kid.
But winning was not a part ofmy persona.
It was not something that I wasused to.
I wasn't a competitive athleteof any kind.

(03:56):
I participated in sport inschool.
But to find myself in theposition of leading the Ironman
and knowing ABC cameras are onme and all of that was just
wildly uncharted territory.
So to be leading the race andthen to kind of have this
concept of myself as someone whocould even be leading a race,

(04:18):
all of that was just that was abig bag, mixed bag of emotions
that I was dealing with.
So the physical struggle reallyprobably took me out of my head
and just made me focus on justliterally putting one foot in
front of the other.
And at that moment where I fellthe first time because there
were four falls before I had tocrawl it was really about just

(04:40):
figuring out how to keep moving,how to keep moving forward, and
I think everyone who's beeninvolved in endurance sports of
any kind, has had that momentwhere all you can think about is
how to keep moving forward,fighting all the emotions that
go with that, all thedisappointments of now being on

(05:00):
the ground when you should berunning towards a finish line.
All of that was coming down tothis finite point of how do I
keep moving forward.
So it sounds kind of clinical,really, because it was very
emotional, but all I could dowas figure out how to get up off
the ground when I fell, how tokeep moving forward Once I got
off of the ground, could I walk?

(05:22):
And if I could walk, then I hadto try and run, I had to try
and win.
So really, forward motion withthe drive of trying to win
something for the first time andit had to be a very big thing
in my case was all I wasthinking about.

Charlie Reading (05:39):
And what do you think shifted in you during
those last moments of theIronman?
What do you think changed inyou mentally?

Julie Moss (05:48):
Okay, well, we have to go back.
It was about mile 18 when therewas a real shift.
It wasn't in those last momentsthat the shift happened.
About mile 18, out on themarathon course, I was in the
lead and I saw KathleenMcCartney coming towards me and
she looked fantastic.
She looked like what I imaginedan Ironman triathlete should

(06:10):
look like, who was going to winthe race and we've talked about
that together many times.
I know you probably talked toher about that, but in that
moment of seeing her I knew whatI was doing wasn't good enough.
I had to find another gear tokind of keep maintaining what I
was doing wasn't good enough.
I had to find another gear tokind of keep maintaining what I
was doing and even pushingforward.
And the process of having topush now from mile 18 to, let's

(06:33):
say, mile 22,.
My body was breaking downpretty fast.
So now I'm not making it fromaid station to aid station.
I'm now having to stop and walkand as my body was breaking
down, feeling of the word ofworthiness comes to mind.
It was the feeling like Ideserve to be in this position,

(06:55):
even though it's new, it'sforeign, I've never had it
before but I deserve it just asmuch as Kathleen McCartney back
there who's looking great andwho's probably going to catch me
.
But I deserve it just as muchand I think to find that place
of worthiness in you.
It opens up a possibility thatfor me was translating to

(07:15):
physically.
I could physically keepovercoming the breakdown because
my mind was telling me Ideserve this.
Does that click a little bit?
The mind was now driving mybody and that the emotion behind
it wasn't just a thought.
It was an emotion of I reallycould be good at something.

(07:36):
I've never pushed myself to begood at something, but I
actually could be if I just keeptrying hard enough.
So that was being honed in thereally the difficult miles of
the marathon.
By mile 25, where we all, youboth know, you're at the top of
Palani and it's downhill and youthink you've got this.
That's where my body reallydidn't respond to that downhill

(08:00):
running.
But now I'm really feeling likea champion and I'm going to win
this thing.
So I get down Palani Hill, Iget almost to Elite E-Drive and
that's when my legs just gaveout and that's where the
scramble really started tohappen of fighting this new
desire, this new acceptance ofmyself as being someone who
could win to.

(08:21):
Now, having a body that isn'tworking and so it was just it
brought out the best in me.
My body breaking down to thepoint where I'm on the ground
and can't figure out how to makemy legs move is now bringing
out the best of me, emotionallyand spiritually.
That fight, that fight for whatyour worthiness, that you are

(08:42):
worth fighting for that waseverything.
That's what that initialIronman gave me.
Did I go into it thinking thatwas after?
Absolutely not.
But the crawling, the gettingup, trying to get to the finish
line was really about completingthe journey that started deep
into the marathon of mydiscovering who I was as a

(09:03):
person.
Yes, it was coming out as anathlete, but it's.
Who am I as a person?
And I'm somebody who is I?
I just get really tired ofsaying I, but that moment gave
me the opportunity to discoversomething about myself.
I don't think I would havefound any other way.

Charlie Reading (09:18):
Amazing and it is such incredible footage.
I watched it back againyesterday, having seen it
several times in the past, andit's just unbelievable footage.
I watched it back againyesterday I mean having seen it
several times in the past andit's just unbelievable footage.
How does it make you feel towatch that footage back now?

Julie Moss (09:33):
I'm kind of amazed.
I feel very vulnerable when Iwatch that, because I was going
through something that wasincredibly personal and in the
later stages it was humiliating,but in a way now that I can
look back and say, well, that'sjust part of sport.
When it was happening to me itwas like incredible humiliation,
vulnerability, pride, courage.

(09:54):
I see the courage that I hadand so, yeah, I ran the gambits.
But I'd say, if I had to pickone word to just one word to
describe what I feel when I seethat footage is just pride.
I was the girl who put thesport on the map.
I was the girl who went throughall of that to give people an
idea that they could findsomething within themselves in

(10:14):
an endurance event like theIronman.

Charlie Reading (10:16):
Brilliant.
And reading the Crawl of Famewhich, by the way, I love, as we
were talking before we hitrecord best cover of all time.
Just, I love the feel of thecover, of the, of the number on
your chest, but it's interestingbecause you talk about how the
humiliation part of it.
And actually the tv channeloffered to sort of cover it up,

(10:38):
didn't they?
And sort of over it and and yousaid no, no, we need to keep
this more real.
What was it at the time thatmade you kind of want to almost
accept the humiliation part ofsome of that footage?

Julie Moss (10:51):
Because the outcome of the race was, you know it.
Just, it changed my life.
I can't, I can't cover that up,I can't make it prettier than
it was.
It was gritty, it was messy andit was transformative.
So, no, you can't, can'trewrite history.
That's how it happened, and Iwas really in this place of, I

(11:11):
think, because it had justhappened.
I remember when the producerscalled me and they said you know
, this is what we think happened, and I could have said, oh yeah
, that's what happened, but it'slike, no, this is when
something big happens.
I think you have to own everyaspect of it.

Claire Fudge (11:25):
When I was doing some research around this, I
didn't realize the reason youwere racing that Kona race.
My understanding is you werethere doing, or where it began
was as part of your thesisproject.
Why that project took you to dothe Ironman in Kona and how

(11:49):
that race and that spark fromracing actually evolved into
something much bigger.

Julie Moss (11:51):
Okay, well, I was in college, because that's just
what you did.
I didn't have a career paththat I was focused on.
I wasn't a very focused student, in fact.
So I had a physical educationmajor student, in fact.
So I was.
I had a physical educationmajor, it was, it was a bachelor
of science.
So it actually pushed me tohave to be a better student than
I wanted to be.
And I saw the Ironman ontelevision and I thought that is

(12:15):
a really cool event, meaninggood looking men that stand
around in speedos at the startof the swim and wow, that's kind
of fun.
And it never really occurred tome that, oh, you know, you're
putting together these hugeevents and it's this amazing,
you know, endurance event.
I just saw it on TV and thought, wow, that looks cool, it's in

(12:37):
Hawaii.
So that's where the seed wasplanted initially, and I kept
watching and I kept watching.
And then there was somethingabout the marathon, the late
stages of the marathon, and andseeing the expressions on these
athletes and thinking, ooh,that's pretty, that's pretty
gritty, but it drew me in.
You know, it's like with thetrain wreck.
I was like, wow, I couldn'tstop watching.
So the seed was planted and acouple of weeks later it's

(13:01):
getting to the point where Ineed to declare you know what my
project's going to be so I cangraduate.
And I just thought, oh yeah, Ishould do that Kona race, that
Ironman, that looks, that soundsimpressive, and I'll take it to
my advisor.
My mom will pay for a free tripfor Hawaii, won't this be great
?
So I'm sitting with my advisorand he's asking me you know

(13:21):
what's my background in swimming?
No, I don't swim, I surf.
What's your running background?
Nothing.
What's your biking background?
I ride my bike.
You know to my job?
You know for school.
And he just started laughing.
He said well, let's see howthis turns out.
He didn't discourage me.
He didn't say that you're crazy.
I kind of liked that about him,that he said this is a crazy

(13:44):
wild dream, just go after it.
So I did what I normally do forall my school projects I waited.
I just procrastinated.
I did other things, I had otherclasses, I had to go surfing, I
had to work and all of a suddenit's getting late and I have to
turn in a progress on thistraining.
And I didn't have anything.
And we're talking that Ironmanwas February and by November I

(14:07):
haven't.
Really I have to start fakingtraining.
So I'm faking these, these logsand and then I kind of put in
okay, and a marathon, I betterhave done a marathon.
And so I did sign up for amarathon and I went and did it
and it was terrible.
The last six miles wereterrible, but I hadn't run over
eight miles.
So this is this is this isJulie in that stage of my life.
We wing it, we just have agreat attitude, we have fun, we

(14:30):
show up for a marathon neverhaving run over eight miles and
it was rough.
By early January I'm thinking Igot to do another marathon and
erase that awful experience.
So I jumped in and did anothermarathon.
The exact opposite of what youwould do to properly prepare for
an Ironman is how I train.
So what did I have going for megoing into this experience?

(14:53):
A willingness to do crazythings, a willingness to just
jump in and try and to just kindof anticipate that I don't
expect anything as far as how Ifinish other than that I have to
finish.
And that was.
It was just to get a grade inthis class.
So that was me showing up inHawaii two weeks prior to the

(15:15):
Ironman.
I'd run two marathons too closetogether, and I showed up in
Hawaii having never done thedistance on the bike and never
having swam the distance, sothis is a cautionary tale.
Of course I'm going to end upcrawling at some point in this
race, when you think about mytraining.

Claire Fudge (15:31):
I want to come on to the training, actually, but
you've you've answered a littlebit of it there and I'm kind of
seeing how that might haveplayed out.
Do you think at that moment intime there was something inside
you that was, you know, lookingfor adventure or looking to
challenge or push yourself atthat time?

Julie Moss (15:48):
I think so.
Yeah, I mean it started showingup in other ways through
surfing and pushing myself outinto surf.
That was way too big for myabilities, but yet this feeling
of diving under a big wave andgetting tumbled around and not
hating it, and so the fact thatthe Ironman was an open water
swim, that didn't bother me atall.

(16:09):
That's a huge hurdle for a lotof first time triathletes is
getting into open water.
That didn't bother me.
The idea that this sport was sonew when I got this whim to do
it there were no books, therewere no coaches.
I could find one article on thesport of triathlon to support
my thesis and so, getting toHawaii, I was suddenly

(16:31):
surrounded with probably about300 other people who actually
were doing the sport.
It was like Mentorville.
I landed and everybody wantedto help what You've never done
the swim.
Well, come swim with us.
And it was just this friendly,low-key sort of environment of
nurturing and access toinformation.

(16:52):
I was literally dropped intothis energy center of
triathletes that I had never met.
There was not one othertriathlete in the entire student
body of Cal Poly.
San Luis Obispo is where Igraduated.
So to be in Hawaii for twoweeks and have this opportunity
to immerse.

(17:12):
Immersion was, it was fun andit was somehow because I wasn't
over-trained, to say the least.
I absorbed all that trainingreally well and I was just
training hours a day, every day,and when the race came up, I
think, as my race played out, Ialmost got it right.
You know, if we're, you know,getting stronger and easing into

(17:35):
this, but just building andbuilding and building and doing
the race was pretty good untilthat's the last six miles of
that.

Claire Fudge (17:43):
So what it sounds like is that your training,
where you were really learningeverything, sounds like the last
two weeks before you actuallyraced.
Is that really how it playedout?
I know you mentioned a coupleof marathons.
What did it look like in thosekind of months coming up to the
race?
Was it really sort of hit andmiss?
It was kind of.

Julie Moss (18:03):
I wasn't taking many swings, I was just.
I went for maybe one bike ridea week because I knew I had to
and I remember thinking it wasso boring and getting in a pool
and trying to swim a mile was soboring.
I think I needed thecamaraderie to make it less
boring, because this is megetting on my bike that I used

(18:23):
to commute around school andtrying to go out and ride 60
miles was horrible.
I mean, the nutrition didn'texist, it was.
You know, I think I don't evenknow if I had a water bottle
cage on my bike.
I think I must have put one on,but that's the kind of thought.
It was just so rough.
However, I should say that thosetwo marathons I ran weren't bad

(18:44):
times for somebody who wasn'ttrained.
I mean, I showed up at theOakland Marathons in November
thinking I'm going to run 330.
I don't know why.
It just seems like a nicenumber.
I think I just thought, ok, 330it is.
I blew up badly, having neverrun over eight miles, and I ran
338, 339.

(19:06):
A lot of people train a longtime to come within 10 minutes
of their goal time.
This was on no training, sothere was some natural endurance
there.
The second marathon I ran wassix weeks later, eight weeks
later, six weeks later, weekslater, and I said, okay, 3.30,

(19:30):
here's the goal.
I got to the half marathon markat 1.42.
And I thought I better standaround here and wait and drink
water and just wait till it hits1.45.
Because I don't know what I'mdoing, but I'm trying to pace
myself better.
So I ended up blowing up at mile23, having stood around for

(19:50):
almost three minutes and ran a3.32.
So there's some endurance inthere that doesn't just come out
unless there's something goingon.
So maybe that kind of gave methe confidence to know that when
I put my mind to it I can get ahundred mile ride done.
And sure enough it was.
You know, I got to go to Konaand Kathleen and I really met at

(20:12):
the time trial of the coursetwo weeks before the race.
But there was a time trial,maybe, yeah, two weeks before,
and I jumped into this timetrial and we weren't that far
apart.
So now I became like thisperson to look at, but that was
the first time I'd ever riddenthe course.

Charlie Reading (20:29):
There'll be people listening to this
thinking, well, you're just, youwere just naturally good at
endurance sport, weren't you?
But then, typically, when you,when you look at there's that
10,000 hours rule, where whichwhich gets over, quoted
Typically what happens is you go, well, mozart, mozart was a
child genius.
But actually, when you lookbehind the scenes of what
happened in the years leading upto become him, becoming the

(20:51):
Mozart that we, that we know andlove, he actually did do his
10,000 hours.
It was just people didn't seeit.
And I wonder, was that the casewith you?
Were you doing like the surfing, were you doing lots of other
things that gave you that engine, gave you that endurance, and
then you could just, it just sohappened that you could apply it
to swim, bike and run.
Or were you just naturally likeis this a natural talent that

(21:15):
you were born with?

Julie Moss (21:16):
Charlie, probably because there are some things
happening there.
Because I wasn't a pool swimmer, I didn't think of myself as a
swimmer.
However, I developed as aswimmer might develop at a young
age, from surfing from 13, 14on, and I did have a job as a
lifeguard at a lake because Icould do open water swimming and
I had to ride my bike to thelake, which is about 30 miles

(21:40):
each way to the lake.
So, yeah, there was some stuffhappening.
So really what was happening isyou were getting that fitness
from other sources and it justso happened that that actually
translated well into yeah, ifyou didn't, if I did and this
was a summer job so it wasn'tyear round, but if it was for
work, I just it wastransportation.

(22:01):
So yeah, I wasn't.
So the training aspect was notsomething that I think I did
very well, but I did life prettywell, yeah.

Charlie Reading (22:11):
Okay, that makes sense.
Looking back on that day inKona, what would you do
differently, knowing what youknow now?
I mean, I know there was amoment with the Snickers bar
that didn't go well for you.
What would you do differently?
And I suppose the secondquestion, the sort of follow-up
question to that, is would youdo it differently, knowing what
then happened, how it all playedout for you and the sport?

Julie Moss (22:31):
Well, okay, first, I know what I would do
differently is that I would havethe confidence to know an
eight-minute lead late in amarathon isn't gonna no one's
gonna catch you unless youcompletely fall apart and land
on the ground.
So I could have done a lot ofwalking, I could have done a lot
of things just to get the winand so, yeah, so I get the win.

(22:51):
Then I would be like the womanI'd watched the year before who
came across the line and no oneever heard from her again.
It was needed, women needed tohave a presence in that sport,
and this was one of the momentsthat was going to propel not
just the sport but women in thesport.
So the other part of thequestion is would I have done it

(23:12):
differently?
I didn't.
I didn't get.
You know, you don't get thatchance.
You have to just play the handthat's dealt you.
And in retrospect, I don'tthink women would.
It would have taken women a lotlonger to get to the forefront
of the sport and to get theaverage person interested in the
sport.
It would have taken a lotlonger.
So the outcome is one thing.

(23:32):
But you're asking would I havedone it differently?
No, I don't think so.
I didn't have it within anypart of my being to know to do
it differently.
I just had to do it the way I'ddone everything Go big or go
home.
I just had to do it the way I'ddone everything Go big or go
home.

Charlie Reading (23:45):
And I think I'm right in saying that your win
in 1989 was kind of the momentthat you were most proud of as
or like the win that you wereproud of.
Is that true?

Julie Moss (24:05):
So tell us a little bit about how that win played
out and why it meant you know,why were you so proud of that
one?
Well, I think in taking what Ifrom kona, then I was thrust
into this professional rolebecause the the sport was
developing different.
Abc, mbc, cbs, all wanted theirversion of the iron man and so
races were being developedstrictly for television.
This provided careers andopportunities for the handful of
athletes that were at theforefront of the sport.
So I was riding that way.
But by 1989 sport was wellestablished.
The women of athletes that wereat the forefront of the sport.
So I was riding that way.
But by 1989, the sport waswell-established, the women in

(24:28):
the sport were really good and Ihad started to put in those
10,000 hours.
I mean, I'm really focusing onwhat it is to be a triathlete.
And by 1987, years into thesport, I finally hit that point
where everything was sort ofclicking into the sport.
I finally hit that point whereeverything was sort of clicking.
I was accepting myself as aprofessional athlete.

(24:50):
That means you show up everyday, you do your best.
I had the opportunity for aboutsix weeks to hang out with the
best athletes in the world downin New Zealand.
I was with Scott Molina, aaronBaker, mark Allen, colleen
Cannon.
These were really good athletesand for me to have that
opportunity to be immersed intheir training and doing the

(25:12):
best I could day after day, Ishowed up at the race on the
Gold Coast thinking not abouthow I'm going to finish, but how
is this training going totranslate?
The first time I've really puttogether a serious come from a
serious training block.
How is this going to?
How am I and this traininggoing to show up at this race?

(25:35):
And I was so present, I was soin the moment of this race, that
that training, just it came outand it was a really wonderful
feeling.
You talk about spiritual,emotional, physical, our
spiritual, I'd say mental,physical all coming together.

(25:56):
That was that experience ofthat race.
I allowed myself to be curious.
The entire race, what's in here?
Yeah, okay, the miles arefeeling good.
This is what you and AaronBaker were running.
You know it's close to this.
Why can't you run in the entire?
You know 1830 K, I think it wasthe race.
Why can't you run in the entire?
You know 18, 30k, I think itwas the race.

(26:16):
Why can't you run that?
And anyway, it was just aperfect combination of having
done the training, showing upwith a willingness to explore
what the training was going tolook like and not thinking about
anybody else, just thinkingabout me and my race and what I
was able to do.

Charlie Reading (26:34):
I think there's a moment where you were racing
alongside Paul and Ubi Fraser,weren't you?
And just tell us about thatmoment and how that kind of
defined the race for you.

Julie Moss (26:43):
Well, like I said, I'd done this training block
with Aaron Baker, who at thetime was Paul's biggest rival,
sort of putting myself in hersphere, sort of gave me a new
confidence that I was a betterrunner than everyone else had
told me I was.
And so Paula and I were on therun together and we were back

(27:04):
together till almost, I think,five to 10 K somewhere in there,
and Paula in my perception sheslowed down.
I think we were nearing thenext woman who we going to catch
and that would put us in firstand second.
And I think Paula thought shedidn't have to think about me
like I'm not a good runner, soshe could slip back off and

(27:24):
gather herself for her win.
And Paula's going to laugh andsay that is not what I was
thinking, julie, but that's whatit felt like.
So it's what it feels like.
And that was my perception.
And I thought come on, I'vecommitted to this pace, I
committed to this, I'm going tostay with it.
And that was exactly that's allit was is I've committed to

(27:45):
this, I'm going to stay with it.
Paula, you can do what you needto do, but I'm committing to
what we started running thesefirst few miles at and continue
to run, that it can be so simple, right, those moments that look
big or they're supposed to be,they can be little, small
moments where you just say theright thing to yourself at the

(28:05):
right time.

Claire Fudge (28:06):
I was going to ask about that sort of like
internal dialogue that you weretalking about there.
Is that the first time that youreally used kind of like you
talked about being curious butthis questioning of like you
know, how am I feeling, you knowwhat, what is it that I need,
like all of those questions?
Is that the first time that youreally kind of started to be
more curious and ask thosequestions and therefore be able

(28:27):
to step up, so to speak?

Julie Moss (28:31):
The basis of that curiosity came from confidence.
Confidence in the training I'vedone, like I've done this great
block of training.
How does that translate?
That's the curious part.
It was the confidence of havingput in the work and now seeing
how that is going to come out inthe race.
I hadn't done that kind oftraining.
I mean I'd been hit or miss, asyou said earlier.

(28:51):
Hit or miss, it was a lot ofmiss, and so the consistency
finally came together.
After years of being aroundgreat athletes, I finally
decided for myself I want toknow what kind of athlete am I?
So that was the first question.
That was the curiositystatement that happened months
earlier.
And then the willingness to putin the time to get this block

(29:13):
done and then to say, okay, howdoes this translate for me?
Not in comparison to anybodyelse, but how does this
translate to me as an athlete?
And so, yo, that was monthsearlier is when the big question
was what kind of athlete do youreally want to be?
And so then I was willing toput in a lot of time and effort
to make that question.
Have clarity, have taken newshape and a new form to make

(29:36):
that question?

Claire Fudge (29:36):
have clarity, have taken new shape and a new form.
And with that, you know, withthat sort of change in mindset
and also around that time, I'mreally interested and I know
you've spoken a little bit whenI've been listening to a few
other podcasts about you sort ofthat nutrition, what happens
like towards the end In 1980,the availability of nutrition
products, so to speak, it was,you know, very, very limited.

(29:57):
I think it was right at thebeginnings of, you know, what we
have today.
How did that?
How did you change yournutrition, like this change in
mindset of like wanting to findout, you know, what kind of an
athlete you could be.
What happened over those yearsin terms of changes in nutrition
for you, in terms of racing?

Julie Moss (30:14):
Well, the same changes that happened for
everybody.
The products started to getdeveloped, we had opportunities
to train with those products andthat's you know.
It just became super matter offact.
Now we have products, so now wetrain with them.
You go for a long ride, youdrink what you're going to be
drinking in a race.
It just became kind of astandard.

(30:35):
So we helped create thatstandard of nutrition training.
You know, taking in salt to allthe things that we were
experimenting with.
Now we have products, now wecan test them in training and
then in racing and so, yeah,nutritionally, I don't remember
ever having one issue in thatrace in 1989.
It was just spot on.

(30:56):
It also wasn't a marathon.
I think that was a reallygolden distance.
It was very probably similar tothe PTO's series that you kind
of find your sweet spot on whatis the good distance for you.
That was probably a perfectdistance for me too.

Charlie Reading (31:12):
Brilliant, perfect distance for me too
Brilliant.
So when we interviewed Kathleen, we talked about how she used
Ironman and endurance sport tohelp her navigate a difficult
time in life, through herdivorce.
And likewise, I've read andlistened to you talk about how
you did the same and in fact youactually sort of came together
and supported each other on thatthrough those difficult times,

(31:33):
didn't you?
So how do you think endurancesport helped you navigate
through the difficulty of adivorce?
How do you think it helped youprovide structure, healing,
clarity, what did it do for youin that time and why did you
come back to the sport aroundthe time of your divorce?

Julie Moss (31:53):
I think divorce, any sort of big upheaval in your
life, certainly divorce, ranksup there with pretty highly with
those kinds of events thatfirst, I think, you kind of hit
a rock bottom, you emotionally.
When you hit a rock bottom, youneed something to pull you back
up.
I think the community oftriathlon sort of taking your

(32:14):
mind off of whatever it is thatyou're going through at that
moment, training and beingaround a really supportive
community can help you in thatway.
Ultimately, when I think aboutgoing back to Ironman,
specifically that distance ofendurance, it's to test me and
test me in ways that I don'tknow the answer to.
Just the way in 1982, thatfirst race, I didn't know what I
was made of, told me you'remade of.
Don't know the answer to.

(32:34):
Just the way in 1982, thatfirst race, I didn't know what I
was made of, told me you'remade of more than you think you
are.
And right now, let's say, whenI'm going through a divorce, I'm
not feeling that.
I'm not feeling that warriorspirit that I discovered so long
ago.
I know it's there but I'm notfeeling it.

(32:54):
So I signed up for an Ironmanand I thought I'll figure it out
and it's.
I'll take my mind off what'sgoing on with me right now, I
will physically get stronger, Iwill be reminded of my better
parts of myself and ultimately,with endurance sports, it strips
off layers of you so you canget down to the good stuff.

(33:17):
And whether you're feeling sorryfor yourself or you truly have
got things that you've got toget through, it helps take those
layers off and opens up a spacein yourself.
That vulnerability, thatperseverance, that drive, that
fire is waiting.
But sometimes you have to clawoff the layers to get to it and

(33:39):
put yourself in an Ironman raceand you will get there, unless
the race is going really well.
If you're having a perfect raceand you're just cruising along,
you may miss that piece.
But I think you've had to getthrough a lot of layers to get
to the point where you're in aspace where you can have a great
race.
Endurance athletics is thefastest way to getting

(34:02):
underneath all the stuff thatyou need to get through.

Charlie Reading (34:05):
Brilliant, and I remember Bob Babbitt when he
tells that brilliant story ofhis first Ironman saying as he
crossed the finish line albeitit was in a car park and there
was like one person maybe stoodthere.
He says, you know, I knew, themoment I crossed that finish
line albeit it was in a car parkand there was like one person
maybe stood there.
He tells.
He says, you know, I knew, themoment I crossed that finish
line I was a different person tothe one that started that race.
Do you think that's still thecase?

(34:26):
Does it still have thattransformative effect, even when
it's your fifth, eighth, tenth,twentieth Ironman, you know?
Does it still have that sametonic and is the process still
powerful?

Julie Moss (34:40):
Yes, absolutely I think it is, and it may be
moments.
It may not be a lifetransformative outcome, but
there's going to be moments andit's those small moments as you
get more experienced with racing, ironman distances.
Those moments then are builtinto the fabric of who you are
and how you're going to keepliving your life.
And I don't want to preach tothe choir here, but I think you

(35:04):
both have had experience.
It is transformative momentsand they're building blocks of
who you want to be, how you wantto show up in your life in
other areas as an athlete, as aman, as a husband, as a wife,
mother, whatever it is.
It gives you a little extratool in your toolbox.

Charlie Reading (35:23):
And I also think it's linked to the goals
that you set as well, isn't it?
For me, Ironman had less of ashine when I started worrying
about the time so much and moreabout the experience or the
outcome.
I think.
To me, that was the goals.
The races meant more when thegoals were more important than
just going faster than I wentthe time before, which must be

(35:46):
really difficult for you whenyou're right at the top of the
sport.

Julie Moss (35:48):
Yeah, I think that can get the ego comes along for
the ride when you're worryingabout how you're going to place
on the podium what's your timegoing to be.
You've taken now a race that youdid before with certain weather
conditions, and now saying theexact same is going to apply
this new year, when there'sdifferent weather conditions
different, it becomes verynarcissistic, I think, to sort

(36:13):
of think that you can justduplicate this event and that
you're going to because you'vetrained a certain way and your
power watts are stronger thatyou're going to have this
different outcome.
I think, if you allow yourselfto look at this journey, this
endurance journey, as somethinglike more, it's just more than

(36:33):
that and I get the energy when Iget to Kona sometimes,
especially when it's an allmen's race as opposed to an all
women's race that overridinggoal energy is just projecting
out.
It's like I want this time, Iwant this split, I want this
place on the podium and you'rein my way on the sidewalk.

(36:54):
Could you get out of my way?
Because I'm thinking about notalways, but there's just a buzz
of that.
So, yes, I think you're spot onwhen you say it's a little bit
more.
That's a quote from the Grinch.
It's a little bit more.

Claire Fudge (37:09):
Well, you've raced for so many years and been
really competitive right fromyour 20s and raced into your 50s
, but I know you had hip surgeryalong the way, or the latter
part.
What is there?
Are there any particularstrategies or like training,
innovations or anything to dowith mindset that has been

(37:29):
really, really powerful inhelping you to stay competitive
through that, you know, throughthose, through those years.

Julie Moss (37:34):
Yeah, hip surgery was it was just you know part
through those years.
Yeah, hip surgery was, it wasjust you know part of the deal.
I mean, I didn't reallyunderstand how much wear and
tear on the body.
I think we're just starting tounderstand that now.
We were the guinea pigs of thesport.
There's a lot of health issuesfor the men in the sport who are
at the top end, the pointy end,as you like to say, of the
sport, with heart situations.

(37:57):
We're starting to see some ofthat come out now.
So I'm lucky that it wasn't justa hip situation, a wearing out
of the hip, which I did my lastIronman, sort of struggling with
that in 2018.
And then did the 70.3 worlds in2019, because my hip could only
sustain half Ironman training,not full Ironman training, and

(38:17):
then I got my hip replaced in2020.
And so it's been five years andsince then I've kind of looked
at this as just a fresh start, areboot.
What was I missing as anathlete?
I was missing strength training.
So I have been a huge advocatefor strength training.
And then you're in the gym andyou're listening to the people
who know what they're doing forstrength training.

(38:37):
And then you're in the gym andyou're listening to the people
who know what they're doing withstrength training and they ask
you, how many grounds of proteindo you have a day?
And you have to think about itand you think, well, I don't
know, not that many.
Then you start thinking aboutprotein as being a big part of
your diet and then you'rebuilding muscle mass that you
really didn't see as an eliteathlete.
And then the goal for strengthtraining was something new, like

(38:59):
why get strong again?
And I want to try something new.
So I'm a skier.
Now I ski.
I had my third season of skiing.
I already bought my season passfor next year.
I have never felt quad burninglike I do in skiing.
You could waltz it for five orsix hours and then you'd feel
like it is at the end of a longday of skiing.
You could waltz it for, youknow, five or six hours and then
you'd feel like it is at theend of a long day of skiing.
It's just such a new fun sportfor me.

(39:22):
I'm not a daredevil by anystretch of the imagination.
My rule with skiing is like thesame with recycling I'm willing
to go as fast as I'm willing tohit the ground.
So I will hit the ground at acertain speed on a bike and I'll
hit the ground at a certainspeed on skiing and I just sort
of stay within that range.
But it has been exciting to seemuscle development.

(39:46):
So I did all this work in thegym so I've been pretty much of
an advocate for four years now Ihad.
I got in the pool recently and Ithought, well, I wonder if all
this upper body that I'm doing,I might as well try and use it.
I got in the pool recently andI thought, well, I wonder if all
this upper body that I'm doingI might as well try and use it.
I really haven't been swimming.
I got in the pool and it wascrazy.
I could swim like I reallyhadn't missed a day.
And, yes, we can go back tothose early days.

(40:08):
Yes, I have established I canbe good at things when I don't
really train.
But to know how long it takesme to get in swim shape and to
feel right away that somethingwas clicking and that the
endurance was there from musclesnot just from those hours and
hours of swimming, but just themuscle mass was there to support
getting in the pool, was prettyfabulous.

(40:30):
I a little seed, a new seed hasbeen planted, that I competed in
triathlons in my 20s.
I've competed in my 30s, 40s,50s and I did one race in my 60s
.
The 50th anniversary of Kona,as you know, is approaching 2028
.
I will turn 70.
So that seed of being on thestart line for the 50th

(40:53):
anniversary feels like there's alot of cool circles coming
together for me, just my legacyin the sport, the timing of
turning 70.
And the last piece is that I'venever trained with a heart rate
monitor.
I mean, I've done some runningwith a heart rate monitor, but
I've never done triathlontraining with a heart rate

(41:13):
monitor, never worn a garment,have never done an Ironman race
with a computer on my bike and Ihave never used power.
So I feel like I think it'd bereally fun to put a couple of
years into getting ready for one.
I never say never, but it feelslike it could be a real good
full circle moment.

(41:34):
Triathlon, getting to use allthe technology that I sort of
wasn't available or I wasn't inthe mood for.
So that's kind of something newand exciting.
That kind of came from thisseed of getting stronger from
the hip, going to the gym,taking up a new sport and then
just sort of letting my bodykind of indicate where could

(41:54):
this lead.

Charlie Reading (41:55):
Oh, that 50th anniversary.
We've spoken about it before.
So Kurt Madden we had on fairlyrecently.
He was making a beeline for the50th anniversary.
I was chatting to Kathleen whenwe were out in Kona last year
because she's a big TriDotadvocate.
I use TriDot and so, yeah,there could be quite an amazing
array of athletes at the 50thedition, couldn't there?

(42:17):
Maybe even Mark, so who knows?
Yeah, no.

Julie Moss (42:23):
I just, yeah, I know him too well.
But that's interesting that youmentioned TriDot, because I was
recently the announcer atWildflower, which is a big
revival kind of festival stylerace that has come back to life.
Revival kind of festival stylerace that has come back to life.
And I had a chance to spend alot of time talking with with
Kurt and with Mark, and theywere camping near me and Kurt

(42:44):
was the one who kind of again itwas the next layer of this idea
of how to train for an Ironman.
I'd like to go to the beginner'smind and say I don't know what
I'm doing.
Kurt Madden, you can tell mewhat to do.
And mainly, he said that theydon't do the big miles like we
used to think we had to do.
Talk about that.
I'll drink that Kool-Aid everyday.
I mean, what Less miles and youcan do it on a stationary, a

(43:09):
lot of work on a stationary bikeand I think that would be
really fun.
The TriD, the tri-dot would be,is kind of part of the scenario
here.
But the other hurdle I have toget through before I can take on
this next big dream is I haveto get the other hip done and so
, yeah, so that looks like it'sgoing to happen early next year.
Well, after ski season nextyear, get through one more ski

(43:32):
season.
I just had a consult with theorthopedic and I said I'd like
to get through one more, onemore ski season and then let's
get this done, and that gives metwo years to rehab and get
ready for CONUS.

Charlie Reading (43:42):
Well, that sounds like.
It sounds like an amazing plan.

Julie Moss (43:45):
No, doesn't it sound like I sort of am committing to
this?
Sounds like it to me.

Charlie Reading (43:50):
Sounds like you built a whole plan around it.
Sticking with the topic of mark, we've had mark on the podcast
a long time.
It was actually mark whointroduced me to tridor a few
years ago and then it kind of my.
My journey through tridor hasbeen fantastic, but you must
have, I mean, like the storiesthat mark tells and of his, of
his iron man days are areincredible, but you must have
heard some memories that reallystand out as your perspective of

(44:14):
what was going through.
Is there one, one memory ofMark's Ironman journey that
really stands out for you?

Julie Moss (44:20):
Okay, well, I can tell this one, because this is
before he ever did his firsttriathlon.
I knew Mark as an acquaintancehere in San Diego.
He was a state lifeguard and Ihad friends who were state
lifeguards and this was before Iactually became a state
lifeguard.
But Mark was famous for showingup for these lifeguard
competitions and doing reallywell in the running and the

(44:44):
swimming.
Obviously he was a swimmer, butthere was one particular event
in San Diego called the TugsTavern.
It was a run, swim run and Mark, I think, won it.
And I just remember thinkingthis guy is a diamond in the
rough.
Just, he is a diamond.
He just doesn't even know howwell he could be at triathlons.
And after I did my firsttriathlon in 1982, I ran into

(45:07):
Mark shortly thereafter and hewas saying, asking about the
triathlon, and at the time agood friend of ours, another
state lifeguard, had done thesame Ironman that I had done.
And we were actually we were,we were dating at the time and
so he was intrigued not onlythat I could get through the
Ironman, but that a fellowlifeguard could also have done

(45:31):
really well on the Ironman.
So I said you're so great atlifeguard competitions, you're
going to be a natural attriathlons and so it wasn't
really the three of us startedtraining, but he started
training with Reed Gregerson,who was another state lifeguard
who'd done the Ironman, and theytrained that whole summer and
then they showed up.
We all showed up and stayed ina condo together for our first

(45:52):
Ironman in October of 82.
That stayed in a condo togetherfor our first Ironman in
October of 82.
That was, I just remember,though, meeting Mark and knowing
Mark actually and thinking hehas no idea he's, he's gonna,
he's, he's a natural at this,he's going to be really good.
And that was the in 19, or,excuse me, in October of 82 is
the year Mark got out of thewater with Dave Scott.

(46:13):
They're riding to Javi together.
They turn around and Dave isannoyed.
Mark sort of said, hey, dave,and Dave went.
Who are you?
I'm Mark Allen.
And Dave just went and we aredone and threw it into a big
gear, took off, and Mark thought, okay, I better throw it into a
big gear and take off and hisderailleur broke.
But no, I remember just seeingMark Allen as this just just say

(46:36):
he was a good lifeguard, a goodswimmer, like 15 pounds more of
upper body and he just he wasgoing to be good at the sport.
The fact that I had done theIronman, I'd seen the athletes
over there, I kind of just itwas like immediate, it's like
you're going to be pretty good.

Charlie Reading (46:55):
But it was your moment that inspired him to
take up the Ironman, wasn't itit?

Julie Moss (46:57):
was.
I think that and the fact thathe knew people in the race, that
also kind of makes it real foryou.
Hey, wait a minute.
And I think that's that momentfrom Mark then translated for
people who saw my moment, whothought could I ever do
something like that?
So we all, we have our time toinspire and I think there was a

(47:18):
piece of that that inspired Markand when we were together as a
couple.
You hear it now in tennis, ingolf, the athletes refer to
their teams.
The golfers say we, you know,and tennis players thank their
team and I felt really it wasjust such a privilege to be on
Mark Allen's team and I reallysaw myself as a vital member of
that team and I felt really itwas just such a privilege to be
on Mark Allen's team and Ireally saw myself as a vital

(47:38):
member of that team.
All the little things behindthe scenes, things that you know
do grocery, shopping and makingmeals and doing the little
things that add up to giving youmore time to rest, more time to
focus, more time to train.
That was really.
That was really a privilege andI think it took the pressure
off me to sort of have to bethat athlete all the time, which

(47:58):
is why it probably took meseven years to get to the point
where I was willing to focus onmyself.
Mark Allen was launched.
I could now focus on myself andsee what kind of athlete I
could be, Motivated now byseeing excellence day in and day
out.
But to finally decide to do itfor myself was a piece of that
puzzle in 89.
And so throughout Mark's careerit was really, yeah, it was

(48:21):
special.
It was special to watch him andthen to see him, you know, not
get his.
You know the fourth Grand Slam,you know that was a Kona every
year and I so appreciated just,you know just the stories in
sport Roy McIlroy, who couldn'tget the green jacket, and by
winning the masters he's woneverything else.

(48:43):
But he couldn't do that and hetalked about the pressure, year
after year after year, of justnot getting that race done.
11 years it took him to finallywin the masters.
That was Mark Allen.
It took him seven years tofinally win Kona and that was a
team effort to get that acrossthe line.
I mean, obviously it was allMark on the day, but it was
really an amazing journey to bepart of that kind of excellence.

Claire Fudge (49:08):
You must have so many other stories as well to
share.
That would be just amazing tolisten to about that journey.
You know you as a triathleteand racing professionally.
You know triathlon has reallybeen woven into your identity, I
guess since your 20s.
Looking back, what do you thinkthat endurance sport has given
you that maybe sort of nothingelse could.

(49:28):
How does that still drive youtoday?
So how does endurance sportstill drive?

Julie Moss (49:33):
you today.
I think the message that thatresonates the strongest for me
from 1982 and crawling acrossthe finish line was that the
mind will take you well beyondyour body where it wants to go.
It's your mind, it's, it's apositive attitude, not just on
race day, but kind of think,think day in and day out, that
ability to see you know theglass half full, that is so

(49:55):
strong that the belief inyourself.
I didn't have it in that firstrace until very late and then it
was taken away, with thephysical being taken away.
So, yeah, I mean you trust thatyour mind is so much stronger
than your body and that inconcert with kind of that mental

(50:16):
, that physical and thatspiritual side, when that comes
together you have those racesthat are, you know, I hate to
say, in the zone.
I don't know why I don't likethat term.
She was in the zone, he was inthe zone.
No, it's bigger than that.
It was like you were.
The major parts, those pillarsof your training have come

(50:36):
together in a way that can besustained.
It's not perfect, it doesn'talways, it doesn't last, but
that's the beauty of enduranceis that you hit those valleys
and you can get back to.
You know, plateaus, peaks are,you know, few and far between,
but if you can just keep ridingout of those valleys and coming

(50:56):
up and keep going, that's wheneverything is coming together
and it's, I guess I love theimperfection of endurance, to
kind of give you moments ofperfection and the mind will be
driving the bus every time.

Charlie Reading (51:11):
Brilliant, brilliant.
Now, like I said, I'm currentlyreading the Crawl of Fame,
which is also actually not justthe best book cover, but it's a
great name.
I love the Crawl of Fame as atitle, so really enjoying it.
Would absolutely recommend thatother people read that, but
we'll ask every guest on thepodcast what books have inspired

(51:32):
them on their journey or whatbooks do they find themselves
recommending to other peopleregularly.
Are there any standout booksthat have really helped you on
your journey?

Julie Moss (51:41):
Well, a couple, so I can't limit it to one.

Charlie Reading (51:44):
No, you can have as many as you like.

Julie Moss (51:45):
Okay, barbarian Days , a Surfing Life and that's by
William Finnegan and he won thePulitzer Prize for autobiography
on that, and it's because I'm asurfer.
He started surfing in the earlydays of surfing, so he takes
you on this classic old schooladventure.
And then it's mixed with themastering of an art form or a
sport which I can resonate with,because it took me a long time

(52:08):
to master triathlon, even thoughI loved it from the start.

Charlie Reading (52:11):
I'm loving the sound of that and, by the way,
so it's taken me a very longterm to master the art of
surfing, so that sounds like the.
Endless Summer book version, soI'm going to check that one out
.

Julie Moss (52:22):
Okay, so Wild, by Cheryl Strayed.
She hiked the Pacific CrestTrail on no training.
She showed up not even havingever packed her backpack and
literally she's in the motelpacking her backpack for the
first time to go out and do thePacific Crest Trail, which for
your listeners, it is a trailthat extends from Canada to

(52:43):
Mexico.
It's 2,600 miles.
And you will read in my book,crawl of Fame, where I document
Matt's, alan, my son.
He did the Pacific Crest Trailhike and he completed that in
2016.
And that's when I looked at himand said you learned something
about grit, my boy.
It's time you thought aboutIronman again.

(53:03):
And so he then competed inIronman and qualified for Kona,
but that was based on the gritthat he got from hiking for four
months on the Pacific CrestTrail.
And the last one is a cautionarytale, but it's by the gentleman
who wrote the foreword to mybook.
His name is Armin Kattan, andArmin and Jeff Benedict wrote

(53:24):
the Tiger Woods.
It's Tiger Woods, and talkabout getting into the head of
somebody who was the absolutebest of his sport.
And getting into his head andgetting to see all the dark you
know kind of the things that onthe outside it looked like
perfect golf perfection, butinside of the way he was raised

(53:47):
and the pressures and theparental stuff, it's just really
great sports reading.

Charlie Reading (53:51):
Brilliant.
Those are three fantasticrecommendations, thank you, and
none of them are on my readinglist currently, but they'll all
be going onto the reading list.
Really great sports readingbrilliant.
Those are three fantasticrecommendations, thank you, and
none of them are on my readinglist currently, but they'll all
be going on to the reading list.
The tiger woods one inparticular, I think so.
I've just recent they were.
They recently released adocumentary like a three series
or docu-series I think, onpossibly netflix, about tiger
and that is brilliant.
It's, it's fascinating and like, by the sounds of things, like

(54:14):
that book goes into the sort ofdark places that he has been to.
So, yeah, brilliant, I'm goingto check those out.
And then we have a closingtradition on the podcast where
we get the last guest to ask thenext guest a question without
knowing who that guest is goingto be, and the last guest was
Chris Brindley and I thinkClaire has got Chris's question
lined up.

Claire Fudge (54:36):
Okay, so what is the major lesson that you've
learned from your first day to?

Julie Moss (54:42):
today, major lesson that I have learned is say yes
more than you say no toeverything.

Charlie Reading (54:47):
Why is that the major lesson?

Julie Moss (54:49):
Because I think we stop ourselves, we analyze well,
can you do in Ironman?
Oh well, I'm not a very goodswimmer, and so you go through
it.
And instead of just jumping insaying yes, I okay, what does it
take?
I think in just in big ways andlittle ways.
If your motto is to say yesmore than you say no, I think

(55:10):
life is going to take you onsome pretty interesting journeys
, amazing.

Charlie Reading (55:14):
Brilliant.
And I have one final questionthat I'm sitting here thinking
I've got to ask you.
With, with kona with the arm,world championships, the girls
and the boys splitting outracing neeson and kona
separately, it feels like youare the person that we should
ask to say is it now a betterthing that they've brought them
back together?
Yes, the women don't get theirown day, but we have the guys

(55:36):
and the girls racing on the sameday.
What are your thoughts on whereKona has been with Nice
alongside and now how, with theannouncements of them combining
it back together again?

Julie Moss (55:47):
Unquestionably the best thing for the sport to
bring everybody back to Kona.

Charlie Reading (55:51):
Brilliant, I agree.
I think Claire raced the yearthat they had both in Kona but
on separate days, and that wasgood but challenging for Kona, I
think.
So, yeah, I think that'sbrilliant.
Julie, it's been absolutelyfantastic chatting to you, loved
hearing the stories and theemotions behind that footage
that we all know so well.
If there is any listener herethat hasn't watched this footage

(56:13):
or hasn't considered reading ACrawl of Fame, then you should
definitely do both.
But, julie, it's beenabsolutely brilliant.
Thank you for everything you'vedone for the sport and for
taking the time today to tell usabout it and tell us about that
journey, because it's beenabsolutely brilliant, thank you.

Julie Moss (56:29):
Thank you, it's been really fun.

Charlie Reading (56:31):
So what did you make of that interview with the
legend that is Julie Moss?

Claire Fudge (56:36):
I was about to say another legend, another like
starting out in Ironman.
You know, Julie is one of thenames that you think of, that
you go to and to be able tospeak to her and listen to the
stories are just yeah, it's justamazing.
One of the things and she saidthis early on, actually one of
the things she said really earlyon is that you know, she wasn't

(56:56):
used to winning, she wasn'tthere to win, and then she
suddenly realizes that, oh, myGod, I can actually do this.
And that was the point thatactually changed her whole
mindset.
And interesting, what did youthink?
Because she talked about likemy God, I am actually worthy of
taking this place being, youknow, winning.

(57:17):
That was really interesting tome, that that she talked about
being worthy.
What were your thoughts aboutthat?

Charlie Reading (57:22):
I agree, I thought it was really
interesting and I also thoughtit's kind of almost it's all
like it's brilliant that she hadthat thought, but it's also
possibly the moment that thethat she, that it cost her the
ironman, because I think whenyou read the book she, she
decides she's worried thatkathleen's catching her and she

(57:44):
decides to pick the pace up andand, as a result, like she said,
she could have pretty much run,walked that last six miles, or
eight mile miles, as it was, andnot given up the lead that she
had.
But equally, it was thatmindset that changed, drove her
to push that hard, which thenhad her body fail her and

(58:07):
created what is probably themost iconic moment in endurance
sport.

Claire Fudge (58:13):
I suspect the most iconic moment in endurance
sport, I suspect I think tolisten to a story around the
drive to win, but actually wasit mile what she said?
Mile 18, was it?

Charlie Reading (58:25):
Mile 18.

Claire Fudge (58:26):
Mile 18.
I mean, if you speak to atriathlete now, they're not
suddenly thinking about thedrive to win at mile 18.
I'm just going to do it for myprojects, my theses, it's just
you know my thesis just like letme go and you know, have a go.
I really love her mindset ofyou know just, and she's you
know she said actually at theend just say yes to stuff and it

(58:47):
sounds like that's what she'sdone throughout her career is
actually just you know, goingout there and getting it and you
know just just trying it.
So it was just fantastic tohear kind of you know how that
world of Iron man was.

Charlie Reading (59:00):
Those you know, right in the early days and and
we didn't get the story but sheshe had I think that kind of
one of the defining moments wasshe had a Snickers bar, which
was going to be her nutrition,and it melted and it sort of
sort of like was all over herface and she decided and she'd
got the camera crew ridingalongside and she's like this is
not a good look.
So she didn't have the snickersbut I mean, like you think

(59:22):
about how much you know theathletes today getting through a
snickers bar an hour in termsof calories if not, well, double
I don't know how I'm sayingthat, not knowing how many
calories are in a snickers bar,but guessing it's quite they've
got, they've got smaller,haven't they?
so you know well, yeah, yeah, umyeah, and yet she's looking at
that as her nutrition for thewhole bike leg.
I mean it's yeah, it's insane,isn't it?

(59:42):
yeah and those marathon timeswith zero training, zero prep,
zero strategy again just likeincredible.
I mean, it's just, yeah, it's,it's an amazing, amazing story.
I thought it was brilliant howshe talked about how kind of
just you know that drive to getthere, and but yeah, it's just,
yeah, just a brilliant story andincredible.

(01:00:03):
And what else did you take fromthe interview other than kind
of how amazing that start was?

Claire Fudge (01:00:09):
Actually, I mean, you know she talked about the
power of her mind.
You know a lot and I knowthat's what a theme isn't it
that comes across in mostendurance triathletes or
endurance athletes.
You know this, this kind ofwillingness to push beyond what
they think is possible.
I mean, certainly on two weeksof training, I mean I think
that's pretty, you know prettygood, to kind of push beyond

(01:00:29):
what's possible, much beyondwhat's possible.
But when she talked about, youknow, racing and you know racing
into her 50s and actuallyfinding other sports along the
way, when she had a hipoperation, actually embracing
other things and you know I'veheard her speak on a couple of
other podcasts about you knowactually that it's really good
to and she didn't mention thisactually but it's really good to

(01:00:51):
find other things that interestyou.
And then when you come back tothe sport you love and she's
talking about now, you know,isn't she coming back in her 70s
to race at the anniversary?
I just think that is amazingand that is, you know, all
credit to this mindset of like,well, I can do it, I will do it,
you know, saying, saying yes.
So I think there is somethingto the power of during injury or

(01:01:12):
coming back from a rehab period, finding something else that
you also get that kick out of orlove or enjoy.

Charlie Reading (01:01:18):
I think that's really important and I also
think that ties in with hercoming back to Ironman to help
her deal with her divorce, youknow, and even though even
though she'd done many Ironmansbeforehand, it was still a part
of her recovery process that hadher dealing with that divorce
better.
I think that's interesting.
So it's kind of where I endedup coming to the conclusion of

(01:01:41):
this year, having done Kona lastyear and qualifying for Kona,
and kind of ticking off that big, big goal.
It's like well, what next?
Is it just another Ironman, andif I'm not that bothered about
qualifying for Kona or Nice thisyear, what's what?
What is the goal?
Why am I doing?

(01:02:01):
And I couldn't get motivated.
So I ended up stepping awayfrom Ironman and came up with
this ridiculous my longesttriathlon principle, so the
longest perceivable swim, bikeand run that I could find.
So obviously cycling Land's Endto John O'Groats was the
longest ride I could think up,which I've done, and it was
amazing.

Claire Fudge (01:02:20):
Why did you not do it twice, there and back?
You know?

Charlie Reading (01:02:22):
In theory, yes, like there's a lady that's just
done it, whose name iscurrently Sarah Ruggins, has
just done it there and back inless than six days, which is
unbelievable.
But anyway, yes, in theory.
So now I could think about that,but at the time it was like and
then I'm swimming LakeWindermere, 11 miles, and then
the Arch of Attrition, 100 milearound the Cornish coastline.
It's much more exciting and I'vegot different reasons to do it

(01:02:45):
and it's challenging me indifferent ways than just doing
another Ironman.
I have no doubt that I'll wantto go back to to racing another
Ironman next year, but it'sabout finding those reasons and
the goals why you're doing it,as opposed to just doing it to
try and get a better time, whichwas becoming less and less
motivating for me.
But I think I think I justfascinated me that even after
all those races, going back tousing Ironman to help her

(01:03:08):
through a divorce was incrediblypowerful.
So, yeah, an amazing interviewwith an amazing lady that
created an incredible moment inthe sport that we love and, like
I said for listeners out there,if you've never watched that
footage, or even if you have,but not for a long time, it's
worth going back and watching.
It's just incredible footage ofsomebody at their absolutely

(01:03:30):
lowest, trying to make it tofinish the race.
So another amazing interviewand for everyone that's
listening at home, keep ontraining.