Cycling Beyond Limits: How Energy Management Fuels World-Class Performance with Richard Oakes

What does it take to be the fastest in the world - not once, but time and time again? And what can business leaders learn from world-record-breaking athletes? 

Today, we sit down with Richard Oakes, a four-time world champion, national record-holder, and co-founder of Team Ohten Aveas, the world’s fastest masters cycling team. 

But Richard isn’t just dominating the track - he’s also reshaping how high-performance thinking applies in the business world, coaching elite firms to work smarter, perform under pressure, and embrace marginal gains for success. 

In this episode, we uncover the secrets of elite endurance - from pushing past plateaus to balancing ambition with longevity. Richard shares how data, resilience, and the mindset of a champion can transform not just your performance, but your career and health. 

If you want world-class strategies to go faster, think sharper, and achieve more, this is an episode you can’t afford to miss. 

Highlights:

• Why the Process, Not the Prize, Fuels Champions
• The Pain, Power, and Purpose Behind an Hour Record
• The Equation of Excellence: Relentlessness, Integration, and Human Energy
• Balancing Elite Performance and a Full-Time Career: No Excuses, Just Clarity
• Mind Over Muscle: How Meditation, Energy Awareness, and Embodied Healing Drive Recovery
• From Marginal Gains to Paradigm Shifts: Finding the Edge in an AI World

Links:
Connect with Richard through Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/oakes_worldchampion/

Connect with Richard through LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-oakes-87646020/

Visit the Ohten Website: https://ohtengroup.com/

Please Subscribe to Business of Endurance on Apple Podcasts, leave a comment, and give us a 5-Star review. 

This episode was sponsored by The Trusted Team and 4th Discipline

Episode Transcript

Richard Oakes (00:07):
you don't do it for the moment of podium and
stripy jersey and whatever that,because as I walk down off the
podium and you realize that theprocess of preparing and with
your team and discipline and theconsistency and the curiosity
to see can get better is whatdrives you.

Charlie Reading (00:24):
What does it take to be the fastest in the
world, Not just once, but timeand time again?
And what can business leaderslearn from world record-breaking
athletes?
Well, today we sit down withRichard Oakes, a four-time world
champion, national recordholder and co-founder of Team
O-10 AVS, the world's fastestmaster's cycling team.

(00:47):
But Richard isn't justdominating the track.
He's also reshaping how highperformance thinking applies in
the business world, coachingelite firms to work smarter,
perform under pressure andembrace marginal gains for
success.
In this episode, we uncover thesecrets of elite endurance,
from pushing past plateaus tobalancing ambition with

(01:10):
longevity.
Richard shares how dataresilience and the mindset of a
champion can transform not justyour performance but your career
and your health.
If you want world-classstrategies to go faster, think
sharper and achieve more, thisis the episode you can't afford

(01:31):
to miss.
So let's dive into theconversation with Richard Oakes.
Do you know what?
When we look at the back end ofthis podcast, then we see
something really interesting.
We see that 57% of the peoplethat regularly listen to it
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So could I ask you a quickfavor before we dive into

(01:53):
today's episode, If you'reenjoying, Claire and I bringing
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can help us continue to do thatand make it even better is to
hit that subscribe button.
And here's my promise to youwhen you subscribe, we'll make

(02:16):
it our mission, along with theteam that supports us, to
continue to improve this podcastevery week.
So thank you so much for yoursupport and for being a part of
the Business of Endurancecommunity.
Let's dive in.
So, Richard, welcome to theBusiness of Endurance podcast.

(02:37):
I know we've chatted a bitbefore, so I'm really looking
forward to kind of hearing moreof the stories that I haven't
heard before and kind of digginginto the detail of what's got
you to where you are, both onthe track or on the bike and in
the world of business.
But I'd really love to start bydialing it right back to where
did cycling start for you?

(02:57):
What was your younger yearslook like?
How did that look like incycling?
How did you get into cyclingand what was your early cycling
career?
Like Me, on both.

Richard Oakes (03:07):
It's a privilege to be here and the business of
endurance resonates with memassively, so I'm in the right
place.
And so cycling goes back a long, long way for me.
So my first memories of cyclingI'm eight years old, right, so
it goes way back.
And I remember following mydad's wheel.
You know it was a sunnyafternoon riding out towards

(03:29):
Grantham on the A1 there towatch a professional bike race
go past the great, the London toYork bike race that used to
race up the A1, right, that'show long ago it was.
So this is like nearly 50 yearsago.
And I just remember the feeling.
I had this little 24-inch wheelracing bike.
You know that cost £8.
And I just remember the freedomand feeling like this, just

(03:50):
like I had wings.
You know I'm a working class ladfrom a working class part of
Nottingham.
You know this was freedom,right, it was brilliant.
It was like wow.
You know I remember the greenfields and the corn swaying in
the wind and the blue sky andfollowing my dad's wheel and
just the whole experience wasjust completely transformational
.
And you can tell when I talkabout it I never forget it, and

(04:11):
so where did that kind of firstbuzz lead you as a junior
cyclist?
About nine I entered my firstrace.
So then you could race, likewhen you were really little,
right.
And so I remember it was aclosed circuit race hall, mental
hospital look, it was aroundthe grounds of that place and I
remember racing and winning myfirst race and it was like wow,

(04:32):
this is amazing.
You know my under 10 race andthen, and you know, my brother's
a really good cyclist.
My dad has always been intocycling so you know, clearly I
had a like a physiological benttowards being a good cyclist.
You know I've got a big aerobicengine obviously to drive that.
And then cycling just took me,you know, to being a sort of

(04:53):
national record holder andriding for the England sort of
schoolboy team and ridingagainst Chris Boardman and
riders like that.
You know, back back in the daybeing on schoolboy teams with
those sorts of riders.
But I think I lacked at thatpoint maybe just a hand on the
shoulder or some guidance.
You know you don't listen toyour daddy when you're 15.
Like, who listens to their dadwhen they're 15?

(05:15):
And I wish I had of them now.
But he said, let me find my ownway.
And unfortunately then it waslike I didn't really see cycling
as a career.
You know I was, I was goodtalent, natural talent, but you
need so much more than thatnatural talent, doesn't?
You know it's not going to doit, but I remember talking to
Chris Boardman who said, likethis is the only thing I can do,

(05:35):
you know.
So I'm just going to ride mybike and see what it takes me.
But for me there was no moneyin cycling then.
So I had to go and sort ofbreak out and maybe build a
career and make some money andcycling was not going to be, I
don't think, for me the way Iwas going to do it.
So like I was good, but I thinkI lacked the mental structure

(05:56):
and the vision and the kind ofdirection to be totally
single-minded about, about doingthat.
So that's where I think I'vealways kept cycling.
But my competitive cyclingfinished really at what I would
call like an elite level when Iwas like 16, 17 and is there a
pinnacle of that time that youthink that was?

Charlie Reading (06:16):
that was the moment for my early cycling
career that I look back to andthink that was that was the best
bit to be honest, that was Iloved the whole experience.

Richard Oakes (06:24):
So there, honest, that was, I love the whole
experience.
So there wasn't.
It was like the wholeexperience of the freedom of
cycling, the discipline ittaught me.
When I look back on it, I don'tremember one thing I remember
cycling as a framework forgetting the best out of myself.
You know, understanding whatyou put is what you get out.
So, like it didn't, it's notsomething that stands out, it's

(06:45):
more the whole thing cyclingrepresented.
I mean, I do remember winning,like a midlands road race,
championships, and it was arotten, freezing cold day and it
was the hardest race I thinkI'd ever done and to win that
was very satisfying.
But when I look back I don'tremember so much the victories.
I remember what cyclingrepresented and how it set me up
for the rest of my life ready Ithink it's fantastic that it

(07:09):
was cycling with your dad thatkind of initiated this, this
thing.

Charlie Reading (07:13):
I was at the track meeting some of your team
a few weeks ago and and your dadwas there.
Now, I know you weren't therebecause you'd got the the lurgy
at the time, hadn't he?
But he's still there at the.
I don't know how old your dadis, but I fell in love with him
immediately because he waswearing a forest hat.
But he's still cycling, isn'the?
Yeah?

Richard Oakes (07:29):
I mean, he's 80 years old, he still races, still
races.
Now he's part of the team.
He's got some goals this yearto try and sort of qualify for
the World Masters Championshipsin the over 80 category, green.
He's setting new goals forhimself and you know, and he
still trains probably every day.
Now you know, he's aninspirational.
He's a very humble guy, likehe's a very humble guy, but he

(07:50):
inspires me with just hisconsistency and his positivity
and what cycling brings for him.
I can just see if I'm as fitand healthy as him at 80, I'll
be pretty happy.

Charlie Reading (08:01):
It's amazing.
So I know when we first met itwas at a drinks party and you
were telling me because you'dkind of you were still hobbling
at the time, or you're tellingme about this, our record, this,
this world record for distancecycled in and for your, for your
age group.
Yeah, tell us about what prepwent into that, what kind of

(08:22):
inspired you to go after thatrecord and how did it play out
um, not enough prep, as itturned out, but what inspired me
to do it?

Richard Oakes (08:31):
I think I had ticked off all the boxes.
Really, I've done everything incycling that I wanted to
achieve.
So, like, the three main goalsfor me were world time trial
champion, world individualpursuit champion, world team
pursuit champion they were thebig goals.
And to set world time trialchampion, world individual
pursuit champion, world teampursuit champion they were the
big goals.
And to set world records inthose disciplines, as far as you
can, which is what this thingwith dan biggum, this project 50

(08:53):
, was all about, which maybewe'll talk, talk about that bit
later.
And so dan biggum and filipogana for those who follow
cycling one after the other,broke the world hour record for
men's elite world, our record,and you'll see on my thing what
shop you know, so we're watch up.
Our technical partner andsponsor of my cycling team and

(09:14):
dan spoke to me and said look,we're going to put this our
record week together, wherewe're going to take athletes
from different amateurs andfemale and different age groups
and we're going to hire thetrack in Grenchen in Switzerland
which, without going to L2T,it's probably one of the fastest
tracks in the world.
And how do you fancy having atrack at the hour record?
You know you've got everythingyou need.
You're a brilliant timetrialist, you're super

(09:35):
aerodynamic, you've gotfantastic track craft.
Why don't you come along andhave a go be part of that thing?
So it came about.
From those two things, reallyone it it.
You know, anyone who knowsanything about cycling will tell
you it's the hardest record tobreak.
Mentally, physically,physiologically it's brutal and

(09:55):
I knew that.
But I made the decision to getmy.
All people know this.
But I made the decision to havea go at the hour record very
late literally it was two weeksbefore and because of other
things, things you know, I'm theCEO of the business and I've
got other responsibilities.
I don't just ride my bike allthe time, I'm not like a
professional athlete in thatrespect and so I made the
decision quite late, and one ofthe things that that meant is I

(10:18):
didn't have time to do the heatadaptation work and also I
didn't have time to ride on thevelodrome with the uci sand back
, like the foam blocks they putat the bottom of the track to
stop you going too low, becauseobviously it's about the number
of laps.
They recall the number of lapsand add them up and how far
you've gone in the hour,multiply by meters, and to stop

(10:40):
you riding below the officialblack line, they put these big
pads on the track.
It's the only event in theworld they put those pads on the
track.
Now there's a real significanceto them and I'll explain that
later.
But anyway, so that that I wasin great physical shape, I was
absolutely flying.
In fact I've just I'd been toglasgow and destroyed the
opposition in the world timetrial championships.

(11:00):
I was in great form, but Ididn't do the heat adaptation
work and I didn't do the theprep with this, with the big
foam blocks on the track, at thebottom of the track, and and
they were my own those twothings were my own doing,
unfortunately why?

Claire Fudge (11:15):
why do you explain ?
You explain this record as thehardest record to break.
Explain to us why that is.
I mean, I can imagine why it is, but why is that so hard?

Richard Oakes (11:25):
I think, because these three things that combine
to make it physiologically andmentally very difficult.
So the first one is to set thevelodrome up.
To be quick, it's got to be hot, hotter than you normally
racing and overheating is amassive issue and he has a huge
impact on the ability to producepower and obviously as you
build up the heat, so thereforethe perceived effort, or the

(11:48):
actual effort and the perceivedeffort, ramps up really quickly
as you get hot and so it's very,very difficult physiologically
to prepare the body for that.
It's just really hard andthere's no other event where you
have that, not in the normalworld, you know, maybe if you're
riding the Tour de France onhot days or something like that.
But anyway, so that's the firstthing.
The second thing is you have tostay static in a single position

(12:11):
, not move at all right, for 60minutes.
I mean, you imagine justsitting in a chair for 60
minutes without moving at allyour position.
Then you've got to produce.
You know 320 watts or whateverit is.
You know unride the track bikearound the vel.
Got to produce.
You know 320 watts or whateverit is.
You know unride the track bikearound the velodrome.
You know sticking to the blackline.
So the fact it's a singleposition.

(12:32):
You get pain in parts of yourbody you didn't even know you
had parts of the body you know.
So it's just brutal.
And then the second thing is ismentally it's it's just
crushingly like boring at onelevel.
You just to and of course allthe self-talk and the pain you
feel and everything mentally.
And there's no one to raceagainst at all, you just
literally it's just a mentallike sledgehammer just hitting

(12:55):
you every lap.
You know.
And to break the record,certainly, the distance I wanted
to do.
I had to ride right on the edgeof my physiological
capabilities to do the distanceI wanted to do.
And so you know you've got tomanage it perfectly because if
you go over in the first 20minutes you just die a thousand
deaths and if you go under youcan't pick it up in the second

(13:17):
half.
So the judging it's like a veryfinely balanced sort of
equation.
If you overstep it or youoverheat or whatever, or you
don't hold the position and thenwhen things go wrong they
snowball incredibly quickly.
So yeah, I hope that just givesa bit of insight to why it's so
blooming hard.

Claire Fudge (13:36):
Yeah, you've painted a picture of maybe not
so much fun, but a lot ofconsistency.
Yeah, no, it sounds like, andalso I think you know we've
spoken to so many differentpeople that are slightly older
in their sport and actuallylearning this consistency and
this endurance, so we'll diveinto that a little bit more.
So what happened?

(13:56):
You talked about the sandbagsand things.
What happened in that race?

Richard Oakes (14:00):
Yeah.
So we had a target and I thinkall the numbers said I could
beat Jens Voigt's record, whichis 51.1 kilometers or something
like that.
So that was the target, so Icould produce the power.
I had the CDA, which is youraerodynamic drag, where it
needed to be.
I'd got the track craft inpractice on the Derby Velodrome,

(14:20):
just sort of rocked up onenight with a member of my team
who does a lot of the tech stuffwith us, I did 49.6 kilometers,
49.5 kilometers, right, whichis, which is about 30 miles, and
if anybody, you know, stickyour head out a window when your
car's doing 30 miles an hour,you know you'll see how quick
that is, like it's rapid.
And so we were quite confident,yeah, we could do that.

(14:41):
The track's going to be faster.
You know I'll be in a bit ofshape, I'll be tapered and all
this sort of stuff.
But in the back of my mind Iknew I'd not done the heat
adaptation.
But what I didn't factor in wasthe fact that we haven't done
the track practice with thesandbag, or sandbag, you know,
the foam blocks down on thetrack anyway.
So we go off to grenchen, we doa few runs, everything's.

(15:02):
You know I was going to ride atsomething like just sub-18
second laps for the first halfand then come down into
17-somethings for the secondhalf, which would give me 51.2
kilometres, and we were prettyconfident when I started and I
tried to settle into myaerodynamic position which is
crucial, by the way.
Right, if your head is twoinches higher than it is

(15:23):
supposed to be, you know,suddenly your CDA goes from
0.158 to 0.179 and you've got tofind 20 or 30 watts more.
There's problem number one,right?
So I set off the sandbags arefreaking me out because I'm
worried about hitting them andso I can't relax.
I'm not riding as low on thetrack as I should be on the
black line and I'm tense becauseI'm concerned about clipping a

(15:46):
sandbag and crashing andtherefore saying my head comes
up and after about 10 minutes Iknow this is the thing about the
self-talk I know what's goingon in my head and I know from
I'm so in tune with how 320watts feels compared to 295
watts, which is probably what weneeded to do if everything was
working well.
I just knew I was overcooked.
I knew I was having to overdoit, right?

(16:07):
So picture this eight minutesinto a 60-minute record.
I knew I was having to overdoit and then, of course, knowing
this record, like I do, I knowexactly what's coming, which is
at 30 minutes.
You're going to be cooked.
So psychologically that's quitea hole to be in.
But I stuck with it because I'ma very determined character,
incredibly determined, so muchso that I literally rode myself

(16:28):
into the ground, literally, andso at halfway I was just ahead
of the record, which I thinkstood at 49.45 kilometres or
something.
Now, that was done at altitude,so you're not comparing apples
with apples.
But anyway, as I got to sort of30 minutes, I had this really
interesting conversation withmyself and I can tell you it's

(16:49):
actually what it went like.
I can remember it like it wasyesterday.
This conversation went likethis Right, richard, this has
not gone well.
You're having to do 20 or 30watts more.
You've overheated, becauseyou're not supposed to overheat,
really until 10 minutes to go.
Then you hang on, but becauseyou've had to go harder than you
thought, you've overheated.
So you overheated.
You can't keep going at thispace.
You're only just on worldrecord pace now, so you're not

(17:10):
going to do it.
So what are you going to do?
Should we just pack it in Sitdown.
It's not my day today.
I remember that conversation.
Then I had another conversationwhich said hang hang on, think
of all the people who'veinvested in you my wife, my son,
my family, my parents, thesponsors, dan, my coach, all
these people here.

(17:30):
You know, all my friends.
I had some friends who'd cometo watch me on the track.
Like all these people who'vesupported me, like you're
probably never going to get achance to come back and do this
again, so it's time to go to aplace you probably have never
been.
Physiologically.
What are you going to do?
And that conversation tookabout two laps of the track.
So that's probably what justover 30 seconds, maybe 37, 38,

(17:53):
36, 37 seconds.
So I then made a decision tojust go for it and just see what
happened.
And when I look back inretrospect, I had to ride at 30
miles an hour for 30 minuteswhen I was completely spent.
I had nothing left in thetanker halfway.
I was in a very bad place, andso I then proceeded to endure

(18:14):
the worst 29 and a half minutesof my life, physically and
mentally.
It was horrendous and I'd neverbeen in a world of pain like it
.
And then with after four, 59minutes and 40.
Four seconds, I think, thosedreaded foam blocks came to bite
me because I was I justliterally I was so exhausted as

(18:36):
I came out of turn three Iclipped one of the things and
crashed.
So I crashed at 30 miles an hour.
I was on the track, I was kindof a little bit up the banking
because I came out.
So the bloke who operated on meafterwards said what happened to
you is equivalent to being inLycra, standing on the top of a
car at 30 miles an hour, andthen you're throwing yourself
onto the pavement.
So that's why, but not onlythat, but all the physiological

(18:59):
stress that I'd gone through inthe hour record left me in a bad
way anyway, and so I hit theground really hard, and because
I was in this position like thisyou know the aerodynamic
position I didn't have time tobrace my forward or anything.
So my left shoulder took theimpact on the ground and smashed
it to pieces, and the good newswas, as I crashed, I'd just
gone through the record distance.

(19:21):
The bad news was, in order toclaim the record, you have to
get back on your bike and doanother lap, and so I had to get
back on and do another lap.
And so I did another lap andthen just collapsed into a heap
on the floor and then the restwas.
I don't remember too much, butI did break a record.
And your shoulder and lots ofbones and stuff and whatever.

(19:44):
But anyway, that's as brief asI can tell that story really.

Charlie Reading (19:49):
I think it sounds hideous, like there's a
reason why we all opt for the 20minute version of the ftp test
when it comes, when that comesaround, because anything.
And that's hideous.
Yeah, so it's like an hour ftptest.
In that it's just awful butabsolutely incredible.
So I think you've explained itand it's all in all the detail

(20:10):
that that we can ask you to.
It just sounds like I supposethe question that comes to mind
is when you really had to digdeep, yeah, what did you do
mentally to get you through that?
That last kind of probably, Iwould guess.
Actually it's the last 10minutes.
I mean, I know you said it wasthe last half an hour, but the
last 10 minutes when it's, youknow, what did you do mentally

(20:31):
to get through that?

Richard Oakes (20:33):
I think there were two things happening
actually.
I think I was no longer doingit for me.
I think I was doing it torepresent all the people in my
life who have helped me,supported me, been there for me,
and therefore I was driven byanother energy which wasn't mine

(20:53):
, and I definitely felt that itwas definitely something going
on there.

Charlie Reading (20:57):
So it's the power of why isn't it, as
opposed to which we talk aboutquite a bit on the podcast
actually?
But yeah, it's when you knowyour why.

Richard Oakes (21:05):
Yeah, and it's why several levels like you're
going down into these levels ofyou know, and why did I get back
into cycling and what happenedto my wife and what was going on
there, like you know thatthat's that end of the energy
that came from that, which maybewe'll talk about, um, if we get
a chance.
You know, so much of it was wasfrom the other people around

(21:26):
that had helped me and that Iwas sort of channeling that
energy.
If you like, that was one.
And the second thing is is thatI know, because I it's part of
my dna, that doing really hardthings is part of growing as a
human being and and findingthings that hard doesn't happen
to you very often, right, soit's almost like a gift.
It's like a gift sounds weird,like it's a gift, like like not

(21:49):
a gift, but it's.
It was an opportunity to justsee right, richard, well, it's
time to take your own medicinehere, fella, because you're
advised.
You always advise people.
Do hard things, you know.
Do the bleep, bleep.
That sucks.
You know.
That's where the edge is.
The edge is in doing the reallyhard things.
Well, this is going to be thehardest thing you've ever done,
so now's the time to step up andtake your own medicine.

(22:10):
So so I think there were twothings happening.
One, there's this energy thatwas fed from another source,
which wasn't me, definitelywasn't me.
I was carried along by otherpeople's energy, definitely.
And then there was that do hardthings mantra, which you know
my business is sort of also intothe neuroscience of all of this
and the anterior mid singularcortex thing.

(22:31):
You know that when you doreally hard things it develops
that part of the brain and thatpart of the brain is incredibly
important for mental health andlongevity and, and you know,
fighting off dementia and allthose other things you know.
So that all this stuff is.
I wouldn't say I was as cogentenough to think it through in
that level, but all my work andall the stuff I've done in my

(22:53):
business and in sport sort ofled me to that reflection.
And now's the time to take yourown medicine.
Brilliant brilliant.

Charlie Reading (23:01):
I know that you've you're seven times world
champion at different indifferent forms of racing.
We haven't got time to talkabout all seven, but which one
of those stands out for you mostand why?

Richard Oakes (23:14):
um, I mean, the first one I'd successfully won
was it was a team event, sothat's a bit different.
But if you look at the firstone, I individual world
championship I won, where I alsoset a new world record, a
c-level world record, in fact itwas a.
Yeah, in fact it was an.
It was an all altitude and sealevel world record.
It was in Los Angeles and thefirst time you succeed and it

(23:37):
was a weird one.
It was after COVID, so it wasthe first time sort of a world
championship was run after allthe shenanigans that happened
with COVID.
But you know, the Australiannational champion was there, the
New Zealand, all the bignations, the US world record
holder, and he was their USchampion, you know.
So everybody was there and youknow, when you pull on the

(23:59):
stripy jersey and get the medalfor the first time, that's
special, you know, becausethere's never a.
You know there's never a secondtime to be the first time, if
you know what I mean.
So I suppose that's the one,that that that stands out.
But I had a very weirdexperience if I've got a minute
to maybe share that when I, whenI actually won, you know, you
go on the podium and thetrumpets go and the national
anthem gets played and you putthe jersey on and you put the

(24:21):
medal around your neck and about15 seconds later everyone walks
away and that's it, and and yousort of you know it hit me then
that why do I do this?
You don't do it for that reasonmoment, you know you don't do it
for the moment of podium andstripy jersey and whatever,
because as I walk down off thepodium, the overriding thought

(24:41):
was oh, I can't wait to getworking on next years.
You know and you realize thatthe process of preparing and
with your team, and thediscipline and the consistency
and the curiosity to see can Iget better, is what drives you,
not so much the jersey or themedal, because it's it's so
fleeting, like it literally.

(25:02):
It really shocked me, you know,because, like, when you're in a
team, you talk to yourteammates afterwards it's all
good.
You get a bit more of a buzzwhen you're on your own.
You're up there and then it'sgone, that's it, everyone's
walked off.
So it was a really it was afantastic experience, but I
realized the real value and joywas in all the work that went
into it, not the actual moment.

(25:23):
It happened, does that?

Claire Fudge (25:25):
make sense, complete sense, I think, um,
again, we've probablyexperienced not not to the world
championship level, but youknow experience those times
where you're on the podium, andthen I absolutely understand
what you mean.
It's kind of gone, it'sfinished, isn't it?
It's on to the next thing.
So, yeah, completely understand, and really interesting that
you were able to reflect on thatand think, actually, this is
about the process and I'mlooking forward to the next

(25:48):
process, which leads me into aquestion actually, how have you
managed to compete as an athleteat such a high level and work
full-time as a professional?
How have you managed to do thatnumber one and then be part of
this cycling team that you'repart of?
How does that work?

Richard Oakes (26:10):
I mean, this is the question, right, it's a
great question.
It's the question I get asked,not just about me, but about
other people I'm working with oradvising, or other competitors,
athletes, or whatever it is,and I can only answer from what
works for me.
So it's a bit of a sort ofcaveat that this works for me.
So there's a few themes here.
The first one is I'm incrediblyefficient, right.

(26:34):
So what do I mean by that?
I spend almost no timeprocrastinating about anything,
because I'm super clear aboutwho I am, what I'm doing and
where I'm going.
Super clear, not only clearwith me, but I'm also clear with
people around me, whether it'smy clients, my teammates, my
wife, my coach.
So I'm really really clearabout how these pieces of the

(26:58):
jigsaw fit together.
And then I'm incrediblydisciplined and consistent.
But the thing that surprises memost is the importance of
communicating that stuff topeople around you.
And then what happens is theyget involved, they support you.
And then what happens is theyget involved, they support you,
they stop they.
So you build up this incrediblemomentum, if you like.

(27:18):
And, funnily enough, choice isreally inherently inefficient,
right.
So I don't give myself a choiceLike I'll train every day.
I work on my mental healthevery day.
I work on O10's business everyday.
I work on my mental healthevery day.
I work on O-10's business everyday.
And I work on my relationshipsthat matter to me every day my
wife, my son, my friends, etc.

(27:38):
Etc.
And sort of everyone knows that.
And so that philosophy, if youlike, you know, you sort of hear
David Goggins say you know howmuch time to spend on your phone
or how much time to spend if hegot rid of that, of that, you
know you could be world.
You know, and you hear theselike sound bites.
But I'm not, I'm not really asound bite sort of person I'm.
I'm, I'm a doer, I'm a grafter,I'm a hard worker, like I

(28:00):
always have been.
And and then there's anotherword which my son uses to
describe me and and we weretalking about like if you had a
word to put on your tombstone,you know, here lies richardor.
He said relentless is the wordthat would go on your tombstone.
Like, you are relentless, butnot in a selfish sort of, and

(28:21):
this is really interesting aboutlike, just the elite athlete.
And how many elite athletes I'veseen in the past who, because
they are necessarily this sortof relentless on one thing, when
it's all over, they become veryunbalanced or they struggle or
it's really difficult.
And this is why my background,this thing, the equation, this

(28:41):
book I've written is about,because there's this argument
between oh, you can't be anelite performer, like I've heard
that so many times.
No, you can't do it, it's notpossible.
I'm telling you, it is becauseI am right Now.
Is it easy?
Nope, but it's not complex.
I don't think it's like one ofthese things.
It's simple but not easy, andI've tried to distill that in my

(29:04):
book, the Equation, whichdoesn't have all the answers,
but it certainly has all thethings I've discovered and
learned through my life to beable to be an active CEO, be an
elite athlete, be a worldchampion, be a good husband, be
a good dad, be a good teammate,meet amazing people like you and
talk about stuff like this.
So that's how my jigsaw piecesare put together and I am

(29:26):
relentless and it's somethingI'll do.
I'll never retire, it'ssomething I'll do.
This jigsaw piece life.

Charlie Reading (29:33):
Until you know I'm pushing up I think this is
brilliant and I think this is amistake that we hear quite a lot
.
I think you rightly saythere'll be people that say, if
you're going to be, you know,world class at this, you have to
have this single focus.
And the mistake I often seepeople making is they only set
goals in that one area of theirlife and, yes, guess what?
They do that, but all the restof their life falls to bits,

(29:55):
whether it's their business,whether it's relationships,
whether their mental health,because they only set goals in
one area, and I love the factthat you're talking about.
Actually, it's perfectlyachievable to have success in
all of these different areas ofyour life and be world class at
them if you go about them with,with balance.
One of the things that youlistening to you talk got me

(30:17):
thinking.
You know you started thisconversation by saying you were
naturally your physical, yourphysiology was good for cycling,
and that you've got a goodengine.
You could clearly cycle wellfrom right from a young age.
But then you've also talkedabout the fact that you're
relentless.
So which do you think is moreimportant the relentless gene
that makes you just keep gettingfiring, determined, or the

(30:41):
physiology that you were bornwith?

Richard Oakes (30:44):
I don't think relentlessness is genetic.
By the way, just a sidebar, youknow, I heard Djokovic
interviewed by a guy and he saidone of your gifts is your
mental toughness.
And Djokovic says no, no, no,no, that's not a gift.
That is worked at deliberately,intentionally, every day, right
, and so the relentlessness isnot genetic.

(31:04):
The relentlessness is adecision I made a while ago when
my life was off the rails a bitand the people around me
deserved better, and I made adecision at that point, probably
about 20 years ago, that I needto work harder and I need to be
better.
And in some ways, the reasonmaybe I didn't continue with
cycling is that I had not madethat decision.
Chris Forbin made that decisionto just be relentless and ride
his bike and he became Olympicchampion and et cetera, et

(31:26):
cetera.
So I think that in itself ispoint one, I think in answer to
your question.
I think that in itself is pointone, I think in answer to your
question and this issue of likegenetic or worked out is a
fascinating one and I'm not sureI know the answer I think the
way I would process it is likemy dad used to say if you put

(31:47):
your mind to it, you can achieveanything.
That was one of the things hesaid, and I believe that's true
within reason, right?
So I could put my mind tosaying can achieve anything.
That was one of the things hesaid, and I believe that's true
within reason, right?
So I could put my mind tosaying do you know what?
I'd like?
To go to the top of a 20-storybuilding and fly under my own
power, what?
No matter how good my arms are,and it's not going to happen,
right?
So there's a limit, likethere's a limit to how much

(32:08):
practice and discipline andrelentlessness can get you.
So there's you.
So it's like a gate that you gothrough that says, genetically,
I've got this stuff in mylocker and I get into the field.
Then for me, it's all aboutmindset, consistency,
relentlessness.
Tiger Woods hit 100,000 golfshots by the time he was 50, or

(32:29):
whatever the statistic is.
So I'm not sure I don't know ifI've exactly answered your
question.
That's my sort of thought, my,my thoughts on it.
You know I, you know bluntly,if I had this level of
relentlessness but I didn't haveyou know, six and a half liter
volume lungs or whatever theyare, you know, would I be as
good on the bike?
No, but maybe I'd work evenharder and maybe I'd do some

(32:51):
other cross sort of trainingthing and I'd be more in the gym
.

Claire Fudge (32:56):
It's all the pieces of the puzzle, isn't it
Like all of these differentareas, sort of you know, coming
together.
I think it's an interestingquestion, isn't it, how you
develop that like toughness andrelentlessness.

Richard Oakes (33:07):
Actually back to Charlie's observation about
setting goals in different areas, because this is something I
feel very strongly about, right,which is this idea of
integration.
This separation I've got a goalhere, I've got a goal there,
I've got a goal here, I've got agoal there again in my
experience takes a lot of energyand can be quite inefficient

(33:29):
and can be quite conflicting.
Right, that's not how I operatemy life.
I operate my life as integral.
So my sport helps me in my work, right, my relentlessness and
my determination helps me as adad, helps me as a team mate,
helps me as a ceo.
All the equation is, becausethese are different components,

(33:49):
that when you add them togetherone times, one times one equals
more than the.
You know it's like that, theold thing.
You know it's more than the sumof its parts.
But if you look at itintegrally, it's an integrated
life, right?
And I think your questionclaire about how am I able to do
it I didn't answer it fullybecause I've only just bought

(34:11):
that interlates like that.
Integration, right, is theextra magic source.
Find things like a venn diagram, find things that that, when
you put them over each other,there's a bit in the middle
which makes me feel like I'mgetting somewhere close to the
potential I was given as a humanbeing it's really interesting

(34:34):
with um integrating goals, I can, I can see how actually you can
meet certain goals by doingvarious different things as well
.

Claire Fudge (34:43):
Actually, it brings me on to a question
around the small one percent,that compound effect, or those
marginal gains that we know sowell in in sport.
How how do you you know, coachand teach those, those marginal
gains within businesses likeyour own business, but also with
with teams and businesses thatyou work with?

Richard Oakes (35:03):
this is like.
This links to another thing inin in charlie's note about ai.
Right, because if everybody'sgot access to the same data
through ai, where does thatleave marginal gains?
Right, because everybody can.
Everybody's got access to thesame data through AI.
Where does that leave marginalgains?
Right, because everybody's gotaccess to all the data.
So marginal gains are not whereit's at.
Where it's at is paradigmshifts.
Paradigm shifts come from humanbeings collective intelligence,

(35:26):
creativity, looking at problemsdifferently.
Like Einstein said, you can'tsolve complex problems from the
perspective that created theproblem, right?
So my business was somewhat inthe business of marginal gains,
but it's always been in thebusiness of sense-making from a
human paradigm.

(35:46):
How do you make sense of thesystem when everyone's been
thinking about it for 25 years?
Right?
Ai just takes that process tothe next level.
So how can you make sense ofthe system?
How can you express it, feel it, experience it and share it?
At the human level?
That can start to bubble upcompletely different ways of

(36:07):
looking at solving a problem abusiness problem, a leadership
problem, an innovation problem.
So, in some ways, same data.
Where's your competitive edgecoming from?
And my business in the last twoor three years, has started
leaning much more into thequestion of what is the
experience that you create foreach other, for your clients,

(36:31):
that feels different, that leadsto more creativity, more
productivity, higher, moresuccess, higher, you know,
delving deeper into the humanpotential, because that, I think
it's just my view is one, it'smy view.

Claire Fudge (36:49):
Two, I've got some quite good empirical evidence
from the market actually, that'stelling me this as well, that
the really forward-thinkingleaders are starting to ask the
same question so is that yourexperience and what you have
seen is is more this kind ofhuman inner aspect that has more
of this edge, or these onepercent, or these gains, and

(37:10):
perhaps technology ai has well,it's yes and isn't it?

Richard Oakes (37:15):
it's both, it's both out.
So you've got the marginalgains, the data analysis.
You know, if you look at whattimo telebais does, you know we
set up the team to be thefastest master cycling team in
the world.
The inspiration came fromworking with dan biggum and the
who what bite team, and you know.
So we sort of said well, let'sbe the equivalent of what
they're doing.

(37:35):
Dan's a close friend of mine.
He wrote the forward to my book.
You know I went to the olympic.
I saw him.
You know, get his olympicsilver.
He should have got a gold.
But you know there's all sortsof issues why he didn't.
You know, crashing into ajapanese sprinter in warm up at
80 kilometers an hour, you knowin.
You know anyway, the peopledon't even know about that's
another story.
You know my team is fastidiousabout data.

(37:56):
We know everyone's CDA.
We know everyone's power output.
Tomorrow we're testingdifferent wheels and different
tie combinations to see if wecan find, you know, two or three
watts.
We could spend three hours onthe velodrome doing that because
we can.
But what I think sets us apartis that we are super curious
about this inner edge, themental side of it.

(38:22):
But it's like we've got somevery cool tools and processes
and methodologies as a businessthat drop into some of the
things we do as a team.
I mean, I was looking off thisif people haven't heard of Otto
Schama, so Professor Otto Schamaruns something called the
Presencing Institute out at MITand effectively what Otto's

(38:42):
doing is saying how can weharness a much deeper
understanding of the humancondition in a world where AI is
going to make all the datamarginal gain decisions for us?
I've paraphrased right all thedata marginal gain decisions for
us.
I've paraphrased right.
But that's effectively whatProfessor Sharma looks at and

(39:04):
he's been one of the biggestinspirations in my career.
I've been lucky enough to workwith him and the guys at MIT and
the Presidency Institute andyou know, realize that in a
world of data analytics gone onsteroids, you know two things.
One, I don't want to lose thefact that being human is very
important and quite a nice thing.
But also you realize those whocan go deeper into that side of

(39:30):
it have a better chance offinding competitive advantage,
because it's going to be verydifficult to get it from AI.

Charlie Reading (39:37):
I completely agree.
I think AI is an opportunity tohumanize what humans do best,
which is creativity, leadershipand empathy, and it's an
opportunity to digitalize thedata and the repetitive and the
mundane and the dangerous, isn'tit?
So it's going to create thispolarization of where, and I

(39:59):
think that the strategicthinking is an interesting point
, because I think that's goingto be both actually so.
For example, there's a famousstory which I'll sort of
paraphrase now, but where AIfirst beat a human at the
leading human at Go, which wasLisa Dahl doll, and everyone
said AI will never beat aleading human at go because it's

(40:23):
just way more complicated, andit was move 37.
When they did move 37 in one ofthe games and the AI did move
37, everyone thought there's abug in the system.
That's weird.
It should not play that move.
It's's totally wrong.
And in 2000 years of humansplaying Go, they hadn't unlocked
this entirely differentstrategy that DeepMind had

(40:44):
created within three days ofplaying Go.
And so I think there's going tobe this interaction between
humans and AI and, in fact, ifyou take the world's best AI and
play the world's best at chessand you play the best human at
chess, the ai wins.
But pair a human with the aiand it will beat the ai as well.

(41:07):
So I think that that's wherethe opportunities are.
I think that's strategicthinking between both is going
to be.
It's going to be reallyinteresting.
I'd love to segue into kind oflongevity in sport and business.
So you've obviously achievedphenomenal things as an elite
level in your 50s.
What has allowed you to staycompetitive physically into your

(41:32):
50s?
But also how do you think thattranslates to the business world
again in terms of how you cankind of pursue a long and
purposeful career?

Richard Oakes (41:45):
No, that's the idea.
I think certainly theintegration point, you know, of
seeing the overlap between thehard work you put in to your
sport, also adds value to yourbusiness and also adds value to
the other things that reallymatter Family relationships,
friends, teammates, et cetera,et cetera.

(42:05):
So that's still a foundationalpiece of this, I think.
The second thing is I don't seeany of the things I'm working
on having an end, so I don'tthink I'm going to retire at
this point or I'm going to stopdoing this.
So I was listening to anotherpodcast.
I can't remember who said it.
It may have even been thecomedian Jimmy Carr who said
this, but it stopped me in mytracks, which doesn't happen

(42:28):
very often.
He said oh, you hear thisphrase now.
Life is a journey, not adestination, right?
So you hear this phrase all thetime.
But he went on then to say Idon't think that's where it's at
.
Where it's at is life isneither a journey or a
destination.
It's about the person youbecome on the way right.

(42:49):
And so key to my this is justme key to my success and
continued success and longevityis that every day I wake up I'm
excited about the person I canbecome that day.
I never get bored of it.
I'm like a kid, like at onelevel, like it's pathetic in
some ways.
Like I wake up and I'm 56 andI'm like whoa, like yes, and
like I get to run the bike, Iget to speak to amazing clients.

(43:11):
So there's a childlike qualitythat comes out of the curiosity
of the person you can becomewhen you lean into the
integration between work andsport and family and
relationships and energy, andand so you can't help but feel
young again, like it's just.
It's just how I feel.
I feel like I'm even morecurious than I did when I was

(43:34):
maybe 17 or 18.
So this, having a path you'reon that's not got an end means
you can be relentlessly curiousand don't also take yourself too
seriously.
You know, have fun doing it.
And then the other thing youhave to do when you get a bit
older is you do have to realiseand the crash was a massive
wake-up call for me here right,because you have to realise that

(43:56):
you have to take more rests.
You need a bit more downtime,right, intentional downtime.
You know, and and manage yourenergy really carefully and and
I noticed that when I went out,that big crash in the hour
record all of 2024.
I never got back to the level Iwas in 2023.
I never got back there.
I was always, was always 20watts down, 15 watts down, 30

(44:19):
seconds down in the time trialand I lost the world time trial
championships because of thatvery reason in 24.
And I realized that, let's say,I train 20 hours a week with
yoga and gym and bike, and 20hours a week as a 56-year-old,
that's as much as you can do.
So I couldn't do 25 hours aweek for january, february,

(44:40):
march, april of 2024 to get backto where I needed to be,
because my body just simplycouldn't take it.
I couldn't do it until untilyou, like you needed to.
You just realized there's aceiling on on what you can do as
you get older.
So it's a bit of a that's a bitof a side point about making
sure you don't overdo it andoverpush yourself and just
protect your energy.
And my last point on that is tobe super aware of your energy,

(45:03):
like be very self-aware of wheremy energy is and listen to your
body.
And I actually mean people say,oh, listen to your body, but I
actually mean have aconversation with it, go into a
meditative state or relax andask questions of your body you
know what do you think is right,and try and build a dialogue
between mind and body in a veryintentional way.

(45:25):
That sounds a bit sort ofwoo-woo, but I believe it's been
quite an important part of myrecovery from big setbacks and
also being able to keepenergized at 56.

Claire Fudge (45:39):
You've talked quite a bit about kind of
energies, and people talk aboutenergy in lots of different ways
, don't they?
In different places.
But what do you mean bylistening to your energy?
So for our listeners out there,what does that start with?
What does that mean?
Like, how could they start outtrying that, knowing what their
energy is now and where it needsto be?

Richard Oakes (45:59):
Well, I think the first thing is to set it as a
goal, like, like for yourself,what do you, what's your
relationship like with your ownbody?
Do you just carry on thereregardless?
Or so, be one, be intentional.
So it's a thing in your lifethat I'm going to be aware of
how my body feels.
And I'm going to sit quietlyfor five or six minutes a day

(46:23):
and feel how I notice, how Ifeel in my body when I just sit
there.
I've got any pains, I've gotany aches, I've got any.
And so one, be intentional andsay that's something I'm going
to do, that's it, you're goingto start there.
Secondly, have a littlepractice and say that's
something I'm going to do,that's, you're going to start
there.
Secondly, have a littlepractice.
It could be for me, it's.
You know, I always start and endthe day with a mindful practice
, you know.

(46:43):
So sometimes it's very simple.
You know, I just sit quietlybefore I get out of bed and look
on my phone for 10 minutes.
I scan my body any pains, anyaches and then have a little
internal dialogue oh, thatknee's hurting, you know what
have you got?
Say what have you got to sayabout that knee and just see
what comes up.
Sometimes nothing comes up.
Okay, sometimes something willcome up.

Claire Fudge (47:03):
Oh well, you know.

Richard Oakes (47:05):
So it's just about being intentional, setting
aside a little bit of time andbuilding your awareness of that.
You can go a bit deeper and sayyou know, notice the vibrations
in your body, like as you scanthe body.
Stop at the ankle, stop at theknees, especially athletes,
runners, cyclists.
Stop at the knees, stop at thehips.
Do you notice anything?

(47:26):
Sometimes, no, don't noticeanything.
Okay, that's fine Sometimes.
Oh, do you notice something?
Okay, well, let me stop quietlyasking my own mind what have
you got to tell me?
Knees, hips, gut and see whatcomes up?
And I was very ill in 2020,like to the point where you know
, the nurses told my wife you'regonna bed to think you should
get to the hospital becauseRichard's we don't know if he's

(47:47):
gonna make it like I was reallyill and as part of my recovery,
I engaged an embodied healer whoworked with me.
I mean, I did all the otherstuff.
I had a great physio, I had asports doctor and nutritionist
and they helped me.
But I also engaged the servicesof an embodied healer who
really talked me through thatprocess of engaging and in a
dialogue between mind and body.
Look for the book.

(48:07):
Yeah, there is a section onembodied healing.
There's a meditation, a guidedmeditation.
I've recorded so you can betaken through a process to be
able to do that.
It takes about eight or nineminutes.
You know you don't have tospend hours on it, but you know,
just be intentional, practiceit develop it.
The other thing I'll say aboutenergy is like you know, we are
just energy beings.
You know we're just atoms andmolecules that vibrate.

(48:27):
You know the fact our eyescan't see them.
Is you know the part of theproblem as Einstein.
But we are just made up ofenergy and you sort of know when
you're a big competitor you'realways up against, enters the
arena or they're on the trackwith you.
So you feel it like are theygood or bad?
So it's just like becoming muchmore aware of that as a

(48:48):
practice and being noticing it,and then that's step one.
Then how could I use that?
What do I do with that?
And I've strategies that Iwould call energetic strategies.
So there's mental, there'sphysical, then there's energetic
.

Charlie Reading (49:03):
It's this third dimension I've been using quite
a lot.
I think it's really interesting.
I think there's definitely moreto go back to the term we used
earlier marginal gains in mentalhealth and wellbeing than
anyone ever thought was possibleyears ago and probably most
people still think it's possiblenow.
You mentioned your book, theequation, which I think will be
out by the time we release the,the podcast, and it's not

(49:24):
actually out at this moment intime, I don't think.
But what I always want to askpeople is what books have you
found help you on your journey,or what books do you find
yourself recommending to other?

Richard Oakes (49:36):
people.
Um so theory you by otto shawna, right, very interesting book,
quite academic, but veryinteresting, talking about human
presence and sense making.
He talks about we don't, ashumans, say, oh, I need to make
think of what's going on in mylife.
You don't say that.
You say I need to make think ofwhat's going on in my life.

(49:57):
You don't say that.
You say I want to make sense ofwhat's going on, but then all
we do is think.
We don't use our other senses.
So the philosophy of that bookis really interesting.
That's one.
The second one is the New Earthby Eckhart Tolle.
My mum bought me the New Earthfor my 40th birthday.
It took me about five years toactually get past page four, but
it's an amazing book, totallyand utterly amazing.

(50:20):
One of the most incrediblebooks I've got Deepak Chopra's
latest book on abundance.
That is really interesting.
I would recommend that.
The last one I'd recommend, ifI'm allowed one more, is a book
called Transitions by WilliamBridges.
It's especially good for people.
Can I say our stage of life?
Maybe I'm a bit older than youtwo, so don't offend anybody.

(50:42):
My stage of life it's really,really good.
It's a brilliant book.
Transitions, you know, as yousort of move through your life
and you see different phases,and it's about how to recognise
that and cope with it andflourish in it.

Charlie Reading (50:55):
Brilliant.
I'm not sure that when westarted this podcast, those
would have been the books thatpeople would have been expecting
you to recommend, so I lovethat.
I actually also started the NewEarth about twice and probably
got about four pages in, but Iwas listening to it and I love
the Power of Now.
But listening to Eckhart Tolleis challenging.

(51:17):
So I'm going to go back andactually physically read that
book because I think that mightgive me a better shot at it.
And the other two TransitionsI've Never Heard Of the Theory.
You Never Heard Of love, deepakChopra, but I haven't read that
one.
So that's brilliant.
Those are some really goodbooks to add to the reading list
, thank you.
And then we have a closingtradition on the podcast where

(51:38):
the last guest asks the nextguest a question without knowing
who that person is going to be,and our last guest was the
legendary Ironman world champion, kathleen McCartney.
So I think Claire hasKathleen's question lined up.

Claire Fudge (51:50):
So Kathleen asks who has been the biggest
influence on your career orpushed you to be better?

Richard Oakes (52:00):
Um, I think the biggest influence on my career,
I think probably Otto Schamaactually, when I think about it,
because he really pushed me,encouraged me into this much
deeper humanistic sort of spaceof going deeper into sense

(52:23):
making and seeing integration insystems, and so he's probably
had the biggest influence on meas a human being and how I think
about work and performance andrelationships, and closely
followed by Dan Siegel actually.
So those two I would say that'sanother book, actually Anything
by Dan Siegel, particularly ifyou've got teenage kids

(52:45):
Brainstorm by Dan Siegel,particularly if you've got
teenage kids brainstormed by DanSiegel, like understanding the
teenage brain.
Dan Siegel's a neurobiologistin relationship, just a genius,
complete genius.
And what was the second part ofthe question?
He's pushed me.

Claire Fudge (52:58):
Yeah, or who has pushed you to be better.

Richard Oakes (53:03):
Dan big one, no question.

Charlie Reading (53:06):
Brilliant.
Well, it's amazing how it'sthose.
It's those people that, yeah,not.
It's interesting sometimes thatI would have expected that
answer to be somebody that youwere competing against, but he's
obviously pushed you in adifferent way.
But that's fascinating, richard, it's been absolutely brilliant
chatting to you.
I think we've got some amazingbusiness insights, some amazing

(53:27):
longevity insights, but alsosome brilliant sporting stories
and and really fascinatinglessons to to take from this
interview.
Um, so huge thank you for that.
For those people that want tofind out more about your
coaching business or about theo10 avr cycling team or about
you in person, where is the bestplace for them to go?
Look?

Richard Oakes (53:48):
um, there's always stuff on linkedin.
I'm always putting stuff onlinkedin so you can find me on
linkedin.
I mean we I don't run acoaching business, bizarrely,
you know I.
You know we've got tools andmethodologies and programs that
that sort of help organizationsmore widely up.
I do a bit of coaching, but youknow it's more on systemic,

(54:09):
like ecosystems, it's likesystemic work getting groups of
people, collective intelligencehow do we get collective
intelligence to work to itshighest potential?
Of course you've got to do someindividual work in the mix of
that.
But if you find me on linkedin,timo tenovea, sam myself are on
instagram, so you can find uson Instagram.
We're doing some interestingtechnology posts on Instagram at

(54:31):
the moment about stuff we'redoing on aerodynamics for
cyclists and triathletes.
Who might be interested in thatstuff.
You know anybody who feels theymight like to buy my book,
we'll have a Shopify link onInstagram.
Any cyclist should follow me onStrava because I'm very open.
You can see the trainingsessions I do, the power outputs
, the heart rates.
You know it's all up there.
I've had people from all overthe world say oh guy, I follow

(54:53):
your training.
It's inspiring people fromChicago and people from South
Africa.
And you know Strava is a greattool so you can find me there.
Yeah, and O10, the O10 group,has a website so you can see
what we do organizationally, ifyou want to, if you want to
there.
But also just to say thank youto you two Great, brilliant
questions.
You know, I feel like I've beenproperly, like you know, put
through the wringer in a verygood way, in a very good way,

(55:14):
you know, to really get to thebottom of why I think some of
the things I do, and socompliments to you two for
getting that out of me and it'sbeen super enjoyable.
Thank you very much, guys.

Charlie Reading (55:25):
Brilliant.

Richard Oakes (55:26):
Thank you.

Charlie Reading (55:27):
Thank you very much.
So what did you make of theconversation with Richard?

Claire Fudge (55:34):
It was fantastic, you know, to have an athlete who
is at the top of his game interms of working, having a
full-time job.
So you know all these peoplethat we talk about, you know in
business, having a business.
He's you know about to launchhis book and he's also competing
at this really high level ashe's getting older.
It's fascinating to speak tohim and I think that it was
really interesting what he wastalking about in terms of being

(55:56):
more human in conversations andin this world of AI.
I guess that's and you'll beable to answer this question.
You know, I guess that's whatwe are going to have to really
pull on is the human aspect asAI starts to come into business.
I mean, what's your take onthat?

Charlie Reading (56:13):
Well, I mean, I think, like we said at the time
, I think AI is an opportunityto humanize what humans do best.
It's freeing up the human to dowhat they do best.
And, let's be honest, the thingthat human does best is not
repetitive, boring, necessarilydangerous activities.
What human does best is thatempathy, creativity, leadership,

(56:37):
all of that kind of emotionalstuff.
So if AI frees the human up todo more of that and less of the
boring admin email kind of thatstuff, that, to me, is where the
opportunity is.
So I think it's a hugeopportunity to do and I think
richard's absolutely right inthat we're not trying to shy
away from this.
You know ai is not replacinghumans at what they do best.

(56:58):
It's actually replacing whathuman.
You know, like gettingdistracted while driving down
the motorway is a typicallyhuman trait, but.
But AI is very good at notgetting distracted and just
sticking between the lanes andfocusing on the repetitive and
boring task that goes on forhours.
So, yeah, I think it was reallyinteresting in that sense and I

(57:19):
think, whilst initially I thinkit felt like he was anti-AI, I
think when you dig down it'slike well, actually AI is great
for certain things because thatfrees humans up to do other
things.
So I think that's where I tookit.
What else did you get from?
We talked a little bit aboutgoal setting, but what else did
you get from the conversationwith Richard?

Claire Fudge (57:40):
I think there were some great things.
Actually, I was writing notesas we're going along, because
there's some really great thingsthat he was saying, and one of
the things that I picked up onwas about this kind of the
making things simple, but thatdoesn't necessarily mean it's
going to be easy, and I thinkyou know we can definitely in
business and in sport, like overcomplicate things and I think

(58:02):
there's, you know, with confusedmessages out there.
I think often things areovercomplicated and actually
it's having somebody be able toknow and be experienced in their
area and be able to translatecomplicated science or
complicated technology intosimple and easy to be able to
use.
But, like you said, actuallyall of this being more human in

(58:26):
business, it it does take workbecause you have to listen to
yourself and change yourself andbe aware of yourself.
Um, so that for me was wasreally interesting.
I thought the other thing aboutyou were just mentioning about
goals and he was talking aboutnot having like these, like
goals on their own, but actuallyintegrating goals into other

(58:47):
areas of life or business.
So what is your take on that?
Because you're a great goalsetter and you're often talking,
you know, certainly at TrustedTeam you're talking a lot about
goal setting and you'rebrilliant at setting but meeting
your goals.
So what is your thought on thisintegration?

Charlie Reading (59:04):
Well, I think the way I described it at the
time was, instead of havinggoals like, a lot of people have
goals in one area of their lifebecause they get told to set
goals.
So they set business goals andguess what?
They have a successful businesslife and everything else falls
by the wayside.
So I actually think thatthere's I always talk about the
six spheres of success, whichand we should set goals in each
of them.
So that's what you do insidethe business, but also as a

(59:27):
business owner because that'stypically who I coach what you
do on the business, so that'syou as the, let's say,
accountant or financial advisorinside the business, but also a
separate set of goals should beabout you as the entrepreneur,
as the business owner.
And then the other four sphereshealth, wealth, happiness and
relationships.
And I agree with Richard, Ithink they are intertwined.

(59:48):
I'd be intrigued to know andactually just look at his goal
setting process, because when Iwrite out my goals for each of
those different areas, they dooverlap and they do intertwine,
but I have distinct goals foreach of them, and so I would be
intrigued to know what processhe goes through.
I know I sit down every quarterand write out you know what's

(01:00:09):
my next quarter's goals for eachof those six areas.
Every year I sit down and gowhat's next year's goals and
what have I got to do thisquarter to be on track for that.
And I've got it siloed in mybrain as to.
But they're not independent ofeach other.
They are like I can't say youknow, for example, if of each
other.
They are like I can't say youknow, for example, if I want to

(01:00:31):
do another iron man.
It's like, okay, well, can Imake a family experience out of
that iron man, or it can I makea business case out of that iron
man, or I want to speak at thisconference in the us.
Can it be a family trip or canI tie it in with some adventure
and go cycling and that's so.
They definitely, definitelyintertwine.
But I think in my mind you'vestill got to have a separate,

(01:00:51):
focused goal for each of thoseareas, otherwise I I just can't
quite get my head around exactlyhow that works.
But I definitely think he'sright in that they are
intertwined, albeit you stillneed the separate goals, and it
is by having those separategoals that you create balance.
Because if everything is aboutyou completing your Ironman and

(01:01:13):
you're doing well in business,guess what?
Your relationships are going tosuffer, and probably you might
even burn out as well.
So therefore, your own healthhas fallen by the wayside.
So actually, you know, you'vegot.
You've got got to find balance,and I find that by doing those
six spheres of happiness, itkind of helps me make sure that
I am creating balance through mygoal setting process.

(01:01:34):
And and I suppose I'll justsort of throw that back to you,
because you've obviously workedwith this approach through, you
know, being a part of thetrusted team how has that
approach worked for you?

Claire Fudge (01:01:44):
so I I totally agree that I think, and actually
, when you were saying it, thewhole idea of having these
separate focus goals doesn'tmean to say they don't come
together at some point.
You know, you giving thatperfect example of actually and
I was thinking actually from anIronman perspective like you're
training for this, maybe one ortwo major A races, but actually

(01:02:06):
how can you integrate anothergoal into it?
Like we'll go and race in somefantastic place and go to
somewhere, and I often find I'mlike, well, actually this was
never where I was going to go onholiday, but if I go to this
place, I would never havevisited there otherwise.
And what an amazing experience.
So I think for me being able tolist it out, particularly in

(01:02:26):
other areas, that I wouldn'thave set a goal.
So, for example, would I haveset a relationship goal before?
No, like I just wouldn't havethought about that.
I would have thought maybe, ohwell, I could, you know, go to
that place, but I can take somefriends with me, I'll meet
friends there, but I wouldn'thave thought it in the way that
you set them out a trusted team.
So I do really like that becauseit absolutely does make you

(01:02:47):
look at areas of your life thatyou would probably and certainly
from my perspective, I wouldhave probably missed or
neglected in terms of goalsetting.
But it doesn't mean to say thatthey don't then merge, because
one thing that you've just saidis time.
You know, actually, when you'rereally busy, actually, how can
you do those things?

(01:03:07):
So you going away and speakingat an event, but going somewhere
amazing and cycling there, orgoing to an event, like when you
went to Kona and took yourwhole family what an amazing
family experience.
I think it really that goalsetting approach into other
areas for me is key, becausethey are the areas, I think,
that often people miss or drop,and you know relationships then

(01:03:31):
break down your fun, your health, that's all missed, isn't it,
if you're not setting goalsaround it and I think the other
thing is that by having a goalsetting process, it's just
forcing you to sort of step outof it for a period.

Charlie Reading (01:03:43):
You know we say that.
You know, the idea of writinggoals for your business is so
that you're you step out ofworking in the business and you
think about the bigger picturestuff and you force yourself to
go well, okay, yeah, we're busydoing this thing here, but is it
actually the right thing?
Should we be kind of liftingour head up and going, oh,
actually we could do somethingdifferently or smarter or
whatever?
And it's the same withrelationships, isn't it?

(01:04:04):
You can either keep ploddingalong I can't remember who it
was I was listening to that saidtheir spouse got the kind of
leftovers.
You know, the business took ahuge chunk of them, their
hobbies and fitness took a hugechunk, the children took a huge
chunk and the spouse got theleftovers.
So they ended up putting inspecific time.
They're like once a month oronce a week, we're going to do

(01:04:25):
this Once a month, we're goingto do this once a month, we're
going to do that once a quarter,we're going to do that.
And by doing that they kind ofring fence and all it took was a
little bit of planning.
So that's exactly what you know, carol and I do.
We'll try and have a date nightonce a month, but we'll have
kind of us time once a week andthen once a quarter we have a
full planning day, which is justkind of looking back at the
last quarter and going okay, didwe do what we said we were

(01:04:47):
going to do?
Essentially the same processthat we go through from a
business goal setting, but we doas a couple and on a family
basis, and it's just thatthought and that conversation
that brings out awareness and itmakes you set a plan for the
next month, three months, year,whatever it is, and you're much
more likely to implement on thatplan if you've created it in

(01:05:08):
the first place I think I thinkalso create.

Claire Fudge (01:05:10):
You know I often talk with my clients about, you
know, setting these specificgoals, because people often say
in the world of nutrition oh, Iwant to lose weight, I don't
know two kilograms.
Well, what does two kilogramslook like and why is it so
important?
So, actually setting a, buthaving a vision around it.
So you know, some of your goalsthat you're setting through

(01:05:31):
your trusted team are the onesyou've just been talking about.
You know, having a goal, youknow from a relationship point
of view, actually there's avision attached to that, isn't
there?
Like we're going away for aweek, or you know we're going
away for the weekend, like that,I feel is really important,
because then you're more likelyto meet a goal if you've got a
vision that's around it yeah,and when you commit something to
paper or digitally or you justverbalize it with somebody else,

(01:05:53):
you create accountability bothto yourself and with other
people.

Charlie Reading (01:05:56):
And again, yeah , you're likely to implement it,
aren't you?
So, yeah, like you say, if you,if you set a goal and it's to
lose this amount of weight or tochange your diet in this way,
and you write it down and shareit with somebody else, guess
what?
It's way more likely to happen,isn't it?
So, yeah, brilliant, well, agreat episode and like really
inspirational.
And I think also, what we cantake from richard is that you

(01:06:19):
know he's achieving theseincredible feats and becoming
world champion and you know,seven times world champion, but
he's becoming.
You know he's won worldchampionships and set world
champion.
You know, seven times worldchampion, but he's becoming.
You know he's won worldchampionships and set world
records in his 50s and willcontinue to do that, I have no
doubt.
And so you know if anyone'ssitting there thinking, oh, yeah
, but I didn't do this, it's toolate, no, it really really

(01:06:41):
isn't.
And if you read RichardAsquith's latest book, race
Against Time, it's talking abouta lot of stories about Masters,
athletes and how amazing acommunity that is, but how
amazing some of these people areracing, you know, way beyond
Richard's 50s and into their 60s, 70s and even 80s, and hundreds
.
It's incredible.
So it's another book for thereading, the ever expanding,

(01:07:04):
brilliant Well, a great episode,episode and for everyone at
home.
Keep on training.