Finding Your Why: Lessons from Legendary Ironman Announcer Paul Kaye

What if one voice could change the way you see endurance sport - and even yourself? Today, we’re joined by an iconic voice of Ironman, Paul Kaye - the man who’s called thousands of athletes across the finish line and witnessed some of the most powerful moments in the sport. 

But Paul isn’t just an announcer. He’s an Ironman finisher himself, a master of storytelling, and someone who truly understands why endurance sport transforms lives. 

In this episode, Paul shares the most unforgettable finish line moments, the power of music to fuel performance, and why Ironman is more than just a race - it’s a life-changing experience. 

We also dive into his own endurance journey, what makes Ironman South Africa so special, and the deep “why” that drives us all. 

Whether you’re an athlete or just looking for inspiration, this episode will make you rethink what’s possible. Let’s get into it.

Highlights:

• The Journey From Radio to Ironman Finish Line Icon
• Turning Grief and Divorce into Personal Fuel
• Crafting Magic Moments at the Finish Line
• The Art of Emotional Announcing, Not Ego
• Using Music to Heighten Race-Day Drama
• Balancing Emotion During Tragedy and Crisis
• Reflections on Kona vs. Nice: A World Champs Split
• Why Silence and Stillness Matter More Than Hype

Links:
Connect with Paul Kaye through his Website, LinkedIn and Instagram.

Please Subscribe to Business of Endurance on Apple Podcasts, leave a comment, and give us a 5-Star review.

This episode was sponsored by The Trusted Team and 4th Discipline

Episode Transcript

Paul Kaye (00:06):
it's not about you.
When I'm on the microphone, Ican do that because it's not
about me.
The spotlight's not on me.
I'm throwing the spotlight onthe spectators and on the
athletes and on the sponsor.
It's not about how much I know.
And by keeping the spectatorengaged, by getting the
spectator emotionally involved,they do some of your job for you

(00:28):
, because they create thiswonderful energy down the magic
carpet.

Charlie Reading (00:33):
What if one voice could change the way you
see endurance sport and evenyourself?
Today, we're joined by arguablythe now the current voice of
Ironman, mr Paul Kay, the manwho's called thousands of
athletes across the finish lineand witnessed some of the most
powerful moments in the sport.

(00:54):
Paul isn't just an announcer.
He's an Ironman finisherhimself, a master of
storytelling and someone whotruly understands why endurance
sport transforms lives.
In this episode, paul sharesthe most unforgettable finish
line moments, the power of musicto fuel your performance, and

(01:14):
why Ironman is more than just arace.
It's a life-changing experience, as any of you that have done
one will know.
We also dive into hisincredible own endurance journey
what makes Ironman South Africaso special and the deep why
that drives us all.
So, whether you're an athleteor just looking for inspiration,

(01:35):
this episode will make yourethink what's possible.
So let's dive in to the episodewith the voice that is Paul Kay
.
Hey, amazing listeners, do youknow what?
When we look at the back end ofthis podcast and we see
something really interesting, wesee that 57% of the people that
regularly listen to it haven'thit the subscribe button.

(01:59):
So could I ask you a quickfavor before we dive into
today's episode.
If you're enjoying Claire and Ibringing you amazing guests,
not asking you for patronagefees and not jamming the podcast
full of adverts, then the bestway you can help us continue to
do that and to make it evenbetter is to hit that subscribe

(02:22):
button.
And here's my promise to youwhen you subscribe we'll make it
our mission, along with theteam that supports us, to
continue to improve this podcastevery week.
So thank you so much for yoursupport and for being a part of
the Business of Endurancecommunity.
Let's dive in.
So, paul, welcome to theBusiness of Endurance podcast.

(02:46):
I am really looking forward tothis conversation because I know
there's going to be a lot oflisteners that are going to hear
this voice and it's going tocreate so many, bring back so
many amazing memories for them.
And I know from just chattingto you just before we hit record
it's already.
I'm already getting the vibe ofthat voice, but I'd really like
to understand the story behindhow you became the voice of Iron

(03:10):
man.

Paul Kaye (03:11):
Oh, you don't say that there's only one voice of
Iron man, and that's Mike Reilly.

Charlie Reading (03:16):
Oh well, yes, but you're now the voice of Iron
man, aren't you?

Paul Kaye (03:19):
I believe, no, no, no , Okay, you know the voice of
Iron man is like an orchestra,or you could possibly say we are
arrows in Iron Man's quiver.
It's not just one of us, thereare many of us.
As a matter of fact, I'm goodfriends with Mike, but so much

(03:39):
respect for Mike.
Mike created those four words.
You are an Iron man.
Mike essentially created theplatform of which we all now
make a living, and Mike had theinnate ability nobody knows how,
I don't even think he went tothe toilet to announce a full

(04:02):
Ironman all day long and thenstill say everybody's name on
the finish line.
This might be the business offinish line I do.
This might be the business ofendurance, but I do not have
that kind of endurance and I'mreally glad that these days we
are a team of people and we area mosaic of voices.

Charlie Reading (04:19):
Well, I think that's a very valid point and
absolutely and I've seen atraces that you definitely,
definitely you guys definitelywork as a team.
But to me you are because I'mpretty sure you welcome me over
my other finish line of iron man, my first iron man, which was
iron man italy in 2019.
You definitely welcome me overthe finish line in south africa
where I got my kona slot, andyou also welcome me over the

(04:41):
finish line at kona.
So to me that you're the voiceof Iron man, but I'd love you to
tell the story of how youbecame a voice of Iron man,
because actually I think it's areally interesting journey of
how you got there and I don'tthink people will really be
aware of that story.

Paul Kaye (04:58):
It's a fairly long story that I'll try and keep
short and just stick to thehighlights.
But you know, in Ironman we sayanything is possible and
Ironman as you and Claire andeverybody's listening will know
it changes your life.
And Ironman changed my lifehugely in various ways at

(05:18):
various times of my life.
I got into the world oftriathlon when I was a radio DJ
and a sportscaster.
In the mid-90s I became thevoice in South Africa for a
multi-race sprint series thatraced across Southern Africa.
So South Africa, namibia,zimbabwe and Mauritius.

(05:42):
And I became the TV voice andthat's where I started learning
about triathlon really, reallyquickly.
And then I did my firsttriathlon only in August of the
year 2000.
And that's also funny enoughthe same year that Ironman came
to South Africa, the realIronman.
We had something we called anIron man, but the Americans

(06:06):
didn't know about us and theyleft us alone, you know, because
we had this little speck at thebottom of this massive
continent that most peopleignore.
But Iron man came to SouthAfrica in the year 2000, at the
turn of the century.
I wasn't involved on the finishline in those days, I was
actually just the voice for theone-hour documentary program

(06:28):
made about it, but it reallytickled my fancy and I was
really becoming a triathlonaddict.
But that really got myattention.
And then in 2001, I was one ofthe voices on the finish line
and we then raced in Gordon'sBay and you, having ridden here,
you'll have an inkling of wheregordon's bay was or where
gordon's bay is.
And that was my first time on amicrophone at an ironman.

(06:54):
And then we didn't even say youare an ironman.
That was very much kind of mikeriley's domain, that was very
much an american thing.
And then ironman fell away.
It left south africa becausethe south african exchange rate
against the US dollar went mad.
Buying the Kona slots and theprize money became prohibitive.
But Ironman came back to SouthAfrica in 2004, which was also

(07:17):
the year that my dad died andthat's part of my journey and
part of my story In 2005,.
2004 was the test of it.
It was a 70.3 race and Iactually did that.
It was my first middle distancerace and I'd only ever done a
sprint before.
What a baptism of fire that was.
I remember sitting on the beach, that same beach you stood on

(07:40):
before you did Ironman, southAfrica, ahobi Beach, although
you might've been at Kings Beachon before you did Ironman South
Africa, hovi Beach, althoughyou might have been at Kings
Beach and I remember standing onthat beach going please, would
a big hole open up in the sand.
It would just swallow me upbecause I was so frightened of
what lay ahead.
It seemed so daunting, but whata great day Anyway.
And then in 2005, my wife askedme for a divorce.

(08:01):
In 2005, my wife asked me for adivorce.
We went through quite anunpleasant separation and
divorce proceedings In August2006,.
The divorce went through.
August 2006 is also when Istarted being on the finish line
of Ironman South Africa, now inNelson Mandela Bay, and in 2005

(08:21):
, I was only the TV voice andwe're celebrating our 20th year
this year Bay.
And in 2005, I was only the TVvoice and we're celebrating our
20th year this year.
And so then I became apermanent feature of Ironman in
South Africa, in Nelson MandelaBay and then the 70.3 in East
London.
In 2007, my then ex-wife leftthe country and she took the
children with and they moved toDenmark and despite the death of

(08:42):
my dad, which was the mostpainful thing I'd ever
experienced because he was mybest friend death is finite, but
the children.
Moving to Denmark was brutallypainful, because it was a pain
that never healed and even tothis day and my daughter's
turning 32, she's got childrenon my grandfather my son is 25.
Saying goodbye to them is stillone of the most painful things

(09:04):
that I do on a yearly basis.
And what happened was this pain, coupled to being on the finish
line of Ironman South Africa Inthose days, you could finish
with your kids and watchingparents come down the finish
line with their children intheir hands just broke me, and I

(09:24):
was struggling to handle all ofthat had been happening in my
30s and was relying on spendingway too much time in the pub
with friends getting to work,feeling broken, needing two
double espressos and a toastedsalmi, and I realized this was

(09:45):
not sustainable and I realizedthat I needed a BHAG a big,
hairy, audacious goal.
I needed something that scaredme, and Ironman scared me
because I watched these peoplecome down the finish line and I
thought they were made ofsomething that I was not made of
.
I needed something scary enoughto get me into bed early, to

(10:07):
get me out of bed early, and soI entered my first Ironman,
which was Ironman Austria 2008.
And it literally changed mylife.
I got to come down the finishline with my children.

Charlie Reading (10:21):
That's brilliant.
And what was interesting when Iwas doing my research is that
you're self-employed, aren't you?
You kind of took a big riskfrom having a broadcasting
background to pursue this goalof yours to become what you've
become.

Paul Kaye (10:37):
Yes and no.
I think what kind of happenedwas everything that has happened
in my life has conspired to putme in the place I am, which is
working for the Ironman groupand announcing Ironman group
owned races in South Africa,around the world and the world
championship series races.
My broadcasting, you know,knowing how to use a voice,

(11:00):
understanding the power of music, understanding the power of the
voice, the power of what yousay, but also the power of
silence.
My understanding the power ofthe voice, the power of what you
say, but also the power ofsilence.
My publishing experience insport, in running and cycling,
which actually we were thepublishers in those days of a
mini Ironman magazine forIronman South Africa, which was
also part of my exposure toIronman in South Africa and

(11:22):
ultimately a springboard toIronman in Europe and then
globally.
Being an athlete and I say thatin inverted commas, t-r-y
hyphen, athlete, not triathletebeing in the media business,
being on the sponsorship side ofthings, being a participant in
so many events, kind of gave meall this experience and informed
my ability to announce.

(11:43):
And then what happened was in2009,.
I did my second Ironman becauseI met my now wife, kelly, and
we were only together for aboutsix weeks and then she had to go
back to continue a contract shehad on the superyachts in the
Caribbean, and now I had thislove of my life taken away from

(12:05):
me again, and so I enteredanother Ironman to distract me
whilst I was waiting for her tocome back from overseas.
So I did Ironman Austria againin 2009.
And that's kind of where theIronman tour and Ironman Europe
actually happened for me,because Triangle Sports, helge
Lorenz and Stefan Petschnik, whoowned Ironman Europe, actually

(12:26):
happened for me because TriangleSports, helge Lorenz and Stefan
Petschnik, who owned IronmanAustria, ironman Monaco, ironman
France and Ironman South Africa.
That's why I raced inKlagenfurt and I got there in
July 2009 and I was registeringfor the race and Helge said to
me please, one of our announcershas let us down.

(12:46):
Don't you please want to be?
Don't you want to announce therace?
And I said, helga, forget it.
I've trained my butt off forSunday and I'm going to race it.
But that started theconversation and that also got
me thinking, because I wasn'tsuper happy and the job I was in
at the time, which was indigital publishing, wasn't
really tickling my fancy, andhaving a new love in my life had

(13:10):
, kind of, you know, reignitedwho I was as a human being and
added a lot of confidence.
And this is a confidence game.
And I thought, gosh, I've justturned 40.
I've lived half my adult lifealready.
Hopefully I've gained somewisdom.
I've learned so much from myyears as a radio DJ, my years as

(13:32):
a radio station manager, myyears in the publishing industry
and digital publishing, alittle bit of TV.
All through my 30s I've done ahuge amount of endurance sport.
I thought, well, I'm youngenough and I have the energy and
a certain amount of wisdom andexperience to tackle something
brand new and give it myeverything and hopefully succeed

(13:53):
.
But if I fail, I'm young enoughto go back into the corporate
world.
So I resigned my job and I wrotetwo proposals One to David
Belairs at the Cape Town CycleTour, which was then the biggest
one day bicycle race in theworld, with 40,000 people riding
109Ks around the beautifulpeninsula of Cape Town, and the

(14:14):
other one was to Keith Boda, theCEO of Ironman South Africa.
And I said to Kelly, we weren'tmarried yet, we were still
going out.
I said, if they accept, I'mresigning.
And if they accepted, it wasenough to pay my mortgage for
three months.
And I remember listening to apodcast by Gordon Ramsay not so
long ago where he said thesecret to success is jeopardy.

(14:36):
You've got to put yourself in aposition of discomfort that
forces you to work hard.
And let me tell you, whenyou've only got three months
bond or mortgage, you need towork your butt off.
And they accepted.
I resigned my job and I went forit.
Look at me now.
And so many people came to meand said, like what took you so

(14:57):
long?
And I'm like I wasn't ready.
You know, people thought I wasready but I wasn't and I hadn't
quite yet figured out what myoffering was.
You know, because what I andall the other professional
dancers do, what we do, iscompletely intangible, it's
completely subjective.
You know, if an Ironman racegoes to the company says I need

(15:21):
20 kilometers of fences, theygive a quote and you know
exactly how many fences you'regoing to get.
If Ironman hires me, they gowhat are we getting?
Are we getting?
You are an Ironman.
Are we getting Paul?
What is Paul?
And I'd finally figured out away to articulate the value that
I bring, that I understand theneed of sponsors and that I know

(15:42):
how to bring their brands tolife.
It's not just that static logoon a board down the finish line.
I understand being an athleteand I understand how important
it is to hear your name whenyou're out on the course and
when you come down the finishline.
And I understand broadcasting,I understand how to engage with
the audience.
So I call it a Holy Trinitysponsor, the athlete and the

(16:05):
audience.
So I call it a holy trinitysponsor, the athlete and the
audience.
And I found a way to articulatethat such that when I put a
number at the bottom of thatproposal to these races they
would go hmm, what he's offering, kind of matches, what he's
charging.
And here I am.

Claire Fudge (16:23):
I think it's amazing to hear you talk about
how actually sometimes there'ssomething that's in front of you
but then you're ready andyou're ready to take that leap.
And I know, certainly from abusiness perspective, you know
we can see that quite a lotFurther.
Back in this conversation youwere talking about the power of
voice and the power of music,and I want to get to music in a
second.
And the power of music and Iwant to get to music in a second

(16:43):
.
But do you think that your Iheard it actually termed as the
gestation period of a businessactually for a little while, as
in kind of those thoughts kindof mingling, and then you've got
something to really present asyour offering but do you think
that the power of your voice,where it is now, has taken a
while for it to kind of grow?

(17:05):
So you, being an athlete in theworld of Ironman, do you think
that's really helped with thepower of your voice where it is
now?
And, almost you know, has yourvoice developed?
Has that kind of developed overthe time working on Ironman?

Paul Kaye (17:17):
Those are all very, very good questions and
basically it's yes to everythingyou've said.
So when I joined the radiostation at the humble age of 20
and dropped out of university tojoin the radio station, my then
program manager said to me it'sgoing to take you about four
years to get used to the soundof your own voice.
You know like most people hatehearing their own voice on a

(17:38):
voice note or, in those days, onan answering machine when it
played back, because we don'tsound to ourselves in our heads
how we sound to others listeningto us, and so when I became a
broadcaster, I had to get veryused to hearing the sound of my
own voice in my headphones, so Iknow what I sound like.

(17:58):
I think I'm also very blessedin that I'm told I have a good
voice and a fairly unique voiceand that it really stands out.
I'm also probably very blessedin that.
You know, being South African,it's a multicultural country.
We have 11 official languagesand English is one of those, but

(18:24):
we have English speakingEnglish people and we have
Afrikaans language people whospeak English and there's two
very, very different accents andmine is quite flat and because
I work mostly in countries whoare not English first language,
my lack of an accent, so I'm notscottish or irish or overly

(18:44):
english or very american orquite a strong aussie or kiwi
twang to it.
It's.
It's flat and you know italiansand spanish and french, they
tell me it's easy to understandme.
So I've got a fairly unique,good, quite a low timbre,
resonant voice which is easy onthe ear, plus plus an easy to

(19:04):
understand accent.
These are all things I'm very,very blessed to have and I work
hard on how I sound.
I don't wear an in-ear on thefinish line because I want to
hear what I sound like, I wantto hear what the audience hears.
But over time I've also honedthat because in the early days I

(19:25):
thought it had to be a lot ofenergy and you had to shout at
everybody, you know, and you hadto talk a lot, because you get
paid by the word.
No, you don't get paid by theword and I've learned that when
you shout at somebody, you'redoing this to them.
You're pushing them away.
They lean away.
When you talk to them, theylean in, you're embracing them,

(19:48):
and so I try and use the qualityof my voice and the sound of my
voice and the resonance and thewarmth and how I modulate my
voice and how I lift the energyand bring it down to make people
lean in and listen, and alsouse the power of silence,
because when you talk too much,people stop listening and that's
also why I believe in the powerof multiple voices.

(20:09):
You get different textures,different accents, different
sounds, which doesn't fatiguethe audience.
I hope I've answered yourquestions.

Claire Fudge (20:20):
Yeah, absolutely, and it's a long day, isn't it,
if you're at a full Ironmanevent, so I can understand, you
know the change in tonality andand then I can maintain that

(20:46):
quality of voice for the rest ofan Ironman race week.

Paul Kaye (20:50):
You've got to treat the voice and us announcers have
to treat ourselves and ourenergy output almost like
athletes do.
We've got to manage that outputor we've got to make sure we
recover.
But the recovery can't be toolong Because often what happens
to me and I was a bit worriedabout today when I'm on holiday
my voice sounds terrible becauseit's completely on holiday,

(21:13):
it's not being worked, it's justlike an athlete who takes a
downtime, that sort of restperiod before they start
building up and going throughthose training camps back into
racing again.
Your body is not performing atits optimum.
But so that's where themultiple announcers is really
good that we can take breaks.
But what happens sometimes ispeople go hey, you didn't call

(21:37):
me an Ironman, were you on abreak again.
And I totally get how importantthose four words are.
You know it's the exclamationmark at the end of a long day of
swim, bike and run, but I trulyhope that most people that
their why is greater than PaulKay or Joanne Murphy or Pete

(22:02):
Murray or whomever saying youare an Ironman at the end of 226
kilometers of swim, bike andrun.

Claire Fudge (22:09):
We'll come on to the why part, actually, because
I think Charlie's got a goodquestion lined up for that.
Just staying on this part ofkeeping an audience, the
competitors, the athletes, but awhole load of spectators there
for this really long day, how doyou almost feed or do you feed
off the audience and thereforethat becomes how you kind of

(22:30):
work the day, or you know, howdo you gear up for even starting
that, because, um, yeah, I'mjust really interested to know
how you keep it so buoyant allday long.
You know from stories thatyou're telling, from picking out
athletes that are coming nearthe finish line, like I.
I've heard you, you know, pickout specific athletes.
So tell us a little bit aboutyour.
I don't know, I want to saytactics almost but how do you

(22:51):
manage that day in terms ofkeeping everyone full of energy?

Paul Kaye (22:56):
You have to be emotionally available and
emotionally open completely.
So first thing, you have tounderstand, as an announcer and
if there's any, if there are anyhash print announcers listening
first thing you have to knowthe number one rule it's not
about you.
I'm actually an introvert and Iwas a very, very shy boy at

(23:16):
school and at university and inmy 20s.
And when I'm on the microphone,I can do that because it's not
about me, the spotlight's not onme.
I'm throwing the spotlight onthe spectators and on the
athletes'm on the microphone.
I can do that because it's notabout me.
The spotlight's not on me.
I'm throwing the spotlight onthe spectators and on the
athletes and on the sponsors.
It's not about how much I know.
I'm not going to be Google andregurgitate and show off how

(23:36):
much I know about every athleteand every sponsor in this
beautiful town we're in, but Iwill weave some of that
knowledge into my repertoire andinto my announcing, often to
fill gaps.
You have to be emotionallyavailable because that's what
fuels you.
You feed off the emotion of theathletes.
You feed off the emotion of thespectators as well, and by

(23:59):
keeping the spectator engaged,by getting the spectator
emotionally involved, they dosome of your job for you,
because they create thiswonderful energy down the magic
carpet and that's why I call itthe magic carpet, because the
athlete feels that energy.
I mean, often an athlete willsay to me you didn't say I'm an
Ironman, I said I did, but maybeyou didn't hear me.

(24:22):
Because often the athletes inthis tunnel, on this world of
pain, and they've got justenough to get them to the finish
line and they're collapsing offto the medical tent, you know.
But they remember how they weremade to feel.
And so engaging the spectatoris critical.
Make the spectator be part ofthe celebration of the athlete.

(24:44):
And so I try and educate thespectator so they're emotionally
aware of what's happening andthey become involved.
And I feel that if you get thespectator emotionally involved,
if you educate them a bit, maybeyou inspire them to become an
athlete.
So now think of the businessmodel.
Now you're bringing morecustomers into the pipeline,

(25:05):
right, and I try to do the samewith sponsors.
I don't regurgitate, I can'tstand.
Give me Ironman.
They give us this long list ofsponsor and partner mentions and
I hate having to read itverbatim.
I'd rather mention how geez.
I can see that that person justswallowed a Morton job because
look how they're flying down thefinish line.
I try to make a part of thepatter as opposed to an

(25:28):
advertisement.
We're sold to all the time.
Let's not sell to people at therace briefing on the finish
line, but that's a personallittle bugbear and we won't go
there right now.
And when I talk about theemotion of it, that's why it's
so draining what we do, becausewe are emotionally spent at the

(25:50):
end of an Ironman race weekendbecause we give a lot of our
emotion, but we're absorbing theemotion of everybody around us.
We're part of every athlete'smoment as well, and that is an
honor and that needs to berespected.
And when you realize that, thatyou are part of that athlete's
moment and you're sharing intheir emotions, that's when you

(26:11):
can give a bit more of yourself.
But this is a job that isimpossible to fake and I know
this from very raw personalexperience my second time in
Europe and my second fullIronman in Europe as an
announcer.
I did Klagenfurt in 2010, but Idid an Ironman Nice in 2011,

(26:31):
which was a week before IronmanKlagenfurt, and my mother had
cancer and she passed away thatmorning and my wife was under
instruction to advise me ifsomething happened to my mom,
because I knew she was on herdeathbed.
And you know, the Promenade desAnglais is long and narrow and

(26:55):
you have the transition zone atthe very far end.
You know the Place de Plongette, and in those days we would
start to swim right in front ofthe finish line, and so people
would walk through thetransition zone, through the
finish line and then down theslipway onto the beach to the
swim start.
So I was walking back fromtransition and Kelly called me

(27:17):
over and she put her arm on myshoulder and she said your mum's
passed.
So I had a cry and then therace director, yves Codier,
rushed up to me and said are youokay?
And Stefan Pechnik came up tome are you okay?
What's wrong?
I said my mom's passed.
I said, oh, you must gostraight back to the hotel.
I said no ways.
My mom believed that the showmust go on.

(27:39):
This is not about me down.
I did the swim start, I did thewhole day.
Eventually I took a break so Icould go phone my children to
tell them that they, granted,died.
And I came back and it was thehardest day of my life because I
had to be completely closed.
I had to fake the entire day.

(28:00):
You cannot fake an Ironman.
I did.
It was brutally difficult, butthat's how I survive, being
emotionally open and available,and I feed off the spectators,
off the team, off the athletes,off everybody around me.

Charlie Reading (28:17):
And you must have seen.
I mean that magic.
I love the fact that you callit the magic carpet because it
must have created so much magicover the years.
I mean, like, obviously we'vehad a lot of guests on here.
I always remember Bob Babbitttalking about how, when he
crossed his first finish lineand he knew that he was a
different person, he was nevergoing to be that same person

(28:37):
again.
You must have seen some of themost incredible moments I know.
In Kona last year I was backwatching as Billy Munger
finished, which was absolutelyamazing.
Can you give me I can see you.
That's like goosebumps moment,isn't it?
Absolutely, it really is.
So what are the moments thatstand out for you on that finish

(28:59):
line that give you goosebumps?
Because there must be lots ofthem.

Paul Kaye (29:02):
Well, essentially there's 3,000 every race.
So that's the short answer.
And that's not me taking thechicken run on the mountain bike
downhill.
That's not me taking the easyway out.
Everybody has got their why?
I see people's lives changed infront of my eyes when they come

(29:25):
down that finish line andthat's why I've called it the
magic carpet for the last 15years Gosh, more than 15 years.
I started calling this back inthe day when I only announced it
.
Ironman, south Africa.
It's changed my life and I seeit change other people's lives
and the grimace becomes a smile,you know, and the pain becomes

(29:45):
this pleasure and thisrealization that you've achieved
something that up until thatmoment you didn't think you
could achieve.
That's the power of Ironman.
That's why I love what I do.
That's why I'm able to ignorethe haters out there who like to
beat Ironman all the time.
You know, ironman can put outthe most positive post on social

(30:08):
media, there'll be a thousandpeople who find some way to say
something negative about it, andI'm able to ignore those
because I know that often theyare wrong and they're just
justifying why they haven't comeand done an Ironman recently.
It changes lives, but then youget.
You know you mentioned Billy andBilly geez.

(30:29):
You know this is somebody whocould quite easily be angry.
He could hate the world, hecould go me, me, me, why me?
And this is all about me.
What does he go and do?
He goes out there and he racesto change other people's lives,

(30:50):
raising millions and millions ofpounds, inspiring thousands of
millions of people to be betterthan who they are today.
Chris Nickich 1% better everyday.
The Agars they might not havemade it to the finish line.
They inspire people to at leasttry.
And you don't have to do anIronman, just get off the couch

(31:12):
and be a better person todaythan you were yesterday.
That's the power of the sport,that's the power of Ironman.
That's another thing, you know,that fuels me and that keeps me
going, and so that's why I sayI see 3,000 of these moments
every weekend.
I see 3,000 of these momentsevery weekend and I sometimes
feel it is unfair to single outcertain people.

(31:34):
You know, I've seen LuisAlvarez.
You know he's done every singleIronman in the world and now he
does it with a visuallyimpaired athlete, so he's doing
it for somebody else.
One of the most fulfilling timesin my career as a triathlete
was when I guided David Jones,who's now.
It was his first triathlon ever.

(31:55):
I never guided anybody, I'venever even ridden a tandem and
then swimming tethered tosomebody and riding a tandem and
running tethered to somebody.
There's so many people who goout there and do it for more
than themselves, who inspire andhelp others.
I've got a career definingmoment the photographs on my

(32:19):
Facebook and I actually used ittwo weeks ago when I did a talk
to a local school, a high school.
I presented at the assemblyabout the power of sport to do
good and I used a picture ofChantal Rao.
The photograph was taken by herthen boyfriend and it's me with
tears in my eyes, well, tellingher that she's not going to

(32:45):
give up and she will be anIronman.
And in those days we still hadmass starts and Chantal was in
remission from cervical cancerand she'd been a bit of a party
animal and a workaholic.
And when she went intoremission she decided she was
going to do something more withher life and she was going to do
good and she was going to behealthy.

(33:05):
And she was going to be healthyand she wanted to be an iron
man and she'd done many 70.3sand I don't know what made me do
this, but the bike cut was at 530 because we had a mass start
at 7 am and the race cut off wasat midnight and the transition
in nelson mandela bay, at hobiebeach, is in that car park near

(33:27):
that little lighthouse thing,and I walked down the carpet and
I walked to the transition zoneat two minutes, so 1728.
And who comes down with 90seconds to spare?
The first Ironman, chantal, andI saw from the body language
this was over in her mind and Icalled her across and she came

(33:52):
up to me and most people call mePK and, by the way, everybody
listening Google what a PK is inSouth African slang.
It's a little bit rude but it'squite funny as well, but it's
about getting a proper smack inany case.

(34:13):
So she goes PK, I'm done, Ican't do this.
And in that photograph I'msaying to Chantal you can and
you will, and I'll be waitingfor you just over there and I
will call you an Ironman.
And she did and she did finishand I did call her an Ironman

(34:38):
and the day she died was, Ithink, two years later, on the
Friday of Ironman South Africa.
It was the Friday of Ironman,south Africa.
It was the Friday of the racebriefing and the welcome banquet
.
And that morning a friend ofhers phoned me and said Paul,
you need to send Chantal amessage.
And my message to her was oncean Ironman, always an Ironman,

(35:07):
chantal, you are an Ironman.
And she'd beennon-communicative for a while
then and her friends said hereyes fluttered when she heard
the voice note.
So, while I haven't reallyanswered your question with any

(35:29):
specific examples, it's becausethere are examples like this
which don't make it into the TVdocumentaries and it's why I
remind people about the power oftheir why.
About the power of their why?
Because ego and vanity andbeing able to brag that you're

(35:53):
an Iron man that won't get youto the finish line, but
something like this, oh yes, thepower of your why you will
achieve the impossible.

Claire Fudge (36:13):
An Iron man, anything is possible.
That is a very moving story.

Paul Kaye (36:14):
It's nearly made me um I don't often cry actually,
but that's that's made me, uh,fill up with them with emotion
from that I I never cry, but, uh, when I talk about my why,
which is different, and maybe Ishould stay away from that this
evening, that's the one thingI'm talking about.
Chantelle is the other thing.

Claire Fudge (36:36):
I can.
No.
This is the emotion thatactually I can almost feel
myself at an Ironman event now,because that is the emotion that
it brings out, doesn't it?
And I was going to ask youanother question.
But whilst we're on the subjectof why there are so many people
out on an Ironman course ordoing an endurance sport, and I
guess, unless you're speaking tothem, you don't necessarily

(36:59):
know what their why is.
You know, I guess some peopleare telling you why it might be,
or they're sponsored by, orthey're running for a charity,
but would you be happy to tellus your why?

Paul Kaye (37:11):
I alluded to it in that it was, you know, a very
unpleasant divorce.
But my 30s were were unpleasantin that I went through a very
difficult labor dispute inbroadcasting with the South
African Broadcasting Corporation, which I won, and then I
decided there's no ways I couldwork there anymore and I

(37:33):
resigned, and that's when Imoved into the publishing
industry.
I do believe that that labordispute and that time I went
through with this SABC was oneof the nails in my marriage
coffin, because I think itattacked my confidence and me.
I mean, this is in the age ofwork.
Am I even allowed to say this?
But me feeling like a man,whatever I feel, that is, I'm

(37:57):
not saying that on behalf ofanybody else.
My marriage started goingdownhill without me realizing it
and then my dad got cancer.
My dad was my best friend.
I mean, you know I was hispartner in his business.
So when I wasn't on the radiostation I was working with my
dad.
Um uh, when I was at school Iwas to go on school holidays.
I went on all these businesstrips.
He was a jazz musician, whichis probably my love of music as

(38:20):
well.
I used to.
After my water polo matches andhockey matches.
I used to go with him to hisgigs and carry his amplifier and
his guitar.
We shared an apartment.
My mom had a restaurant in thecountry, and so my dad would
work in the city Monday toThursday and then go to my mom
over the weekends, and so Ilived in the apartment with him
and was his partner.
And then, you know, he got sickand he died of cancer.

(38:41):
My mom had had cancer twicebefore already.
Then I went through the divorceand then the separation, and
then my children moving overseas, which was brutally painful,
and then my mom died as well ofcancer for the third time.
And all of those things are mywhy, and why I do Ironman is

(39:06):
because she went to my doctorand said please help me.
My dad died of cancer.
My opah died of cancer.
My mom died of cancer.
My mom is one of 12, of whichnine others were sisters.
Every single one of them's hadcancer.
My cousins have had cancer.
What do I do?
And he says you know what?
The only thing I can recommendis you take negative stress out

(39:28):
of your life.
And that's when I thought thatwas playing on my mind.
I'm like, hmm, so if I can takenegativity out of my life and
just embrace positive.
I'm going to resign my jobbecause I'm feeling sick every
Sunday night, going to work onMonday and that was part of
between meeting Kelly and thedoctor saying take away negative

(39:53):
stress and turning 40, so thisis all my midlife crisis and
having been infected with thevirus of Iron man and the need
to see my children who are inEurope, could I announce races
overseas?
That's my why and that's whatmade me chase being an Ironman
announcer and that's why I sayIronman changed my life, and

(40:15):
without your why and without itbeing real, it has to be real.
Without that, you know, it'sreally hard to do difficult
things.

Charlie Reading (40:28):
I find it fascinating listening to this,
because I talk a bit aboutpeople's talent tapestry and
that's kind of like the stack oftheir different expertises over
their lifetime, and for meyou've kind of you've just
summarised the three things.
So we've talked a bit aboutyour history as a broadcaster

(40:49):
and understanding the power ofthe voice and the communication.
You've then talked about thedoctor saying the best way you
can avoid dying of cancer isIronman or something similar,
and therefore you've got yourwhy and then, I think, also your
dad being a jazz musician andunderstanding the power of music

(41:09):
.
I can't listen to ACDC'sThunderstruck or the White
Stripes, um, without being backon the start.
I get goosebumps just sayingthe bloody songs, let alone
actually hearing them.
Um, there is enough.
I mean, I think I don't thinkthere is any Ironman star line
that hasn't got me juicedbecause of that music and

(41:30):
because of your voice.
Talk to me a little bit abouthow you obviously understood the
power of music from spending somuch time with your dad, and
particularly with Giles, I think, is such a great like a great
type of music to understand theprinciples.
A great like a great um type ofmusic to understand the

(41:51):
principles.
But talk to me about how youthink music makes the event and
how do you make the event sospecial through the power of
music?

Paul Kaye (41:55):
you choose to play the right song at the right time
, the right moment.
So what music does and this wasone of the things I put in my
very original proposal back in2009 was harnessing the power of
music, getting rid of playlistsand bringing in real human
beings to play the music.
Not am I allowed to say thisbecause they were a sponsor of

(42:18):
Ironman for a long time and I'ma huge fan of the brand but not
club DJs, not Red Bull DJs.
Wedding DJs are particularlygood and radio DJs are good
because they understand they'renot playing the music for
themselves, they're playing themusic for the audience and they
need to understand the moment.
Like a wedding DJ, there'snobody better and the dance
floor is empty.
The wedding DJ is failing.
Radio DJ if you don't havelisteners, you're failing.

(42:39):
So think about you want a fullstart line.
You want a full hot corner.
You want a full turnaround atthe finish line.
You want a full finish line.
One of the ways of saving theannouncer's voice and allowing
the announcer to use the powerof silence is good music.
If the spectators are wigglingtheir hips, tapping their feet,

(43:02):
clapping their hands 126b that'sperfect for clapping their
hands.
Ironman Calma, do it superbly.
Barcelona knock it out theballpark, so does Chervia and in
my opinion, one of the best DJsin the world at doing this is
DJ Dane Lee, who happens to be aSouth African from Nelson
Mandela Bay, the home of IronmanSouth Africa, who I have the

(43:25):
pleasure of having a lot of theevents that I work at.
And if you use music cleverly,you can lift the lows and you
can raise to greater heights.
For highs, can you imagine ifyou've got a playlist and
there's Lucy Charles coming downthe finish line to finally win

(43:47):
the Ironman World Championshipand the wrong song starts
playing?
Please, but play the right song.
The crowds will become evenmore euphoric, the moment for
Lucy is even greater, and thatsong.
When she hears that, sheremembers that finish line.
So I use music like that.

(44:19):
We also, where I'm able, whereI'm able to influence the DJ and
the choice of music, we look atthe music we play very, very
carefully.
Firstly, no expletives.
Secondly, god forbid whathappens if we have an incident.
This happened to me the firsttime in Ironman 70.3 East London
.
We lost two athletes in theswim and I had to announce to

(44:40):
the spectators and the peoplepresent that you know we'd had a
death and we actually turnedthe music off for a while and
the then DJ.
The next song the DJ played wasKaty Perry.
What Doesn't Killy Makes youStronger.
I nearly died a million deaths.
I sprinted to him and I saidyou can't play that, because I

(45:01):
understand the power of lyricsas well.
So we curate the music very,very carefully.
If you listen, you'll notice,especially if Dane's playing
before a swim start, just beforewe go into that final little
buildup.
Most of the songs the lyricsare inspirational.
It is Teddy Perry Firework.

(45:23):
It'll be some Coldplay Probably.
We like to play Hall of Fame youcan be the greatest, you can be
the best, you can be King Kongbringing you on your chest what
I call the unofficial Ironmananthem, and then we'll choose a
song for every race that we useas the theme.
So after we play Thunderstrikewhich we play on the hook, by

(45:44):
the way we start Thunderstrikewith 29 seconds to the gun.
So you've got that intro, theintro, the intro, the intro and
the gun goes.
As the gun goes, the hook ofthe music goes.
I don't have to do anything.
The music's going to do all thework for me.
So if you use the musicproperly.
It's an incredibly powerfultool, but also it can fill the

(46:09):
gaps very nicely.
So I remember we were at Ironman70.3 Dubai one year and a
family member of the king passedaway and we weren't allowed to
add any music on race day.
So it was Jan Murphy and Iannouncing with zero music.
Then we had a situation as youmight know, the very, very well

(46:31):
publicized situation in Hamburgwhere the motor rider with a
cameraman on back on the backcollided with an athlete and the
motor rider passed away.
Um, we played instrumentalmusic for an hour after we made
the announcement on the finishline, because almost any music
with lyrics could be offensive.

(46:53):
And then we slowly built up themusic with lyrics, taking away
I will survive, what doesn'tkill you makes you stronger, and
other songs that might beviewed to be inappropriate and
that I believe to beinappropriate.
Taking them away To slowlybuild up the atmosphere again,
because those 3,000 athletesracing still deserve their
moments.

(47:13):
But you needed to show yourrespect.
Ironman Wales the weekend afterthe Queen died, I raced it.
Yes, very carefully.
Curate the music.
We even adjusted the volumecarefully, you know.
So fortunately I understandmusic and fortunately I don't
only come from a radio DJbackground, but I come from a

(47:34):
general radio station managementbackground where programming
was a big part of what I had todo and I work with DJs who
understand this and finally,more and more Ironman racers are
moving away from those days.
It was iTunes, now it's Spotify, where you're at the whim of

(47:55):
whoever created the playlist towhere we have a real, live human
being who we can tell.
This is the moment I need youto fit, the moment.

Claire Fudge (48:05):
I think, well, ironman does that very well.
You're doing that very wellbecause I think I saw it in
Charlie's face, actually thebeginning of you know those swim
starts where the music is justplaying up and some of your
inside information there aboutthe last you know 29 seconds.
And I'm those swim starts wherethe music is just playing up
and some of your insideinformation there about the last
you know 29 seconds, and I'mgoing to be listening out for
that next time I race.

Paul Kaye (48:22):
So must be careful not to give away too much of my
yeah but you know what it's.
It's not rocket science, it's solike, and it boils down to
emotion and iq as well as eq andobviously a huge amount of
experience.
So sometimes dj danely getsupset when we help other djs and

(48:45):
I always remind them.
I said, dane, you can give themyour whole set of music.
They won't play it in the orderyou play it and they won't mix
it the way you mix it.
They won't match it to themoment the way you match it.
That's totally you.
So, yeah, you can give awaysome of the secrets, but not
everybody will put theingredients together the same

(49:07):
way.

Claire Fudge (49:08):
And reading, like you say, reading that moment,
and that comes back to youworking with the audience.
So, yeah, the music is amazingthere.
It does such a fantastic job interms of lifting you.
So, staying on the theme of,well, we have been on the theme
of Ironman quite a lot, but theIronman World Championships

(49:29):
there's been a lot ofcontroversy in terms of the race
changing, with the females andthe males now splitting at the
world championships.
How do you feel the worldchampionships is going to evolve
?
Number one but number two, whatdo you feel?
Now it's run twice, now thatwe've had NIS and we've had

(49:53):
males and NIS and females andNIS, haven't we?
How do you?
How do you feel the locationsare really different, that they
give something very different.
You know in those differentcountries, so what Kona gives
and what Nice gives as a worldchampionship location.

Paul Kaye (50:07):
You know I mentioned earlier on that I worked in Nice
for the first time in 2011.
And I worked in Nice many, manyyears, both the 70.3 and the
full, when they were split andthen they became one.
I was there for the 78.3 WorldChampionship in 2019 as well,
and I've been there since it'sbeen the Ironman World
Championship.

(50:27):
There's a wonderful saying inGerman wie man's macht es falsch
, and this applies squarely toIronman no matter what you do,
squarely Toro man.
No matter what you do is wrong.
And you know everybody wasbaying where Andrew Messick's
scalp?
Because it wasn't 50-50pro-women, pro-men in Kona and

(50:52):
there weren't enough age groupwomen racing in Kona and there
are not enough slots for womenat the age group races.
And then we had those two races.
We had the women and then wehad the men.
One week in Kona it was crazy,post-covid it was.
I'm so blessed and honored thatI was there.

(51:15):
I raced it, probably won anddone.
But wow, that that was insanehow we all survived it.
I don't know how the iron manteam survived it.
I don't know.
Um.
It was made quite clear by the,the local hawaiians.
Many of them did not appreciateit and iron man respected that
and iron man said okay, weunderstand, um, you do not like

(51:39):
the two days of racing.
So I managed to scratch hishead and and think of a solution
.
And if we all step back, youknow what was the solution?
Go back to one day.
And then now suddenly it's not50 50 male, female and the pros
it's it's.
You know, with a thousand prosracing, theoretically we should

(52:00):
have more pros, right, but nowit's not 50-50 again.
And now all the age group womenthey're going to lose out on so
many slots.
I mean, you get women who comesecond and third in the age
group and don't get a slot.
You get men who can come 15thand who do get a slot.
You know, is that fair?
I'm not going to debate that,but these are things you have to
consider and I truly believethat if there was a location on

(52:23):
this planet that was worthy ofhosting an Ironman World
Championship, that had thehistory, that had a worthy
course, that had a receivingpublic that would be emotionally
engaged and welcoming and makethis a special occasion, it was
an iconic destination, whereelse but Nice?

(52:45):
Where else but Nice?
And so I think it was a gooddecision and I think Ironman
have done it very, very well.
I think Nice have done it very,very well.
You could definitively feel thedifference.
I remember driving into Niceand feeling the difference

(53:07):
compared to normal Nice, if Imay call that, nice light Nice
full, so to speak, as a worldchampionship.
And I think Nice has deliveredand there are very few.
I haven't heard any athletessay to me it was not worthy.
Those athletes that erased it.

(53:27):
The only people that I noticedthat still complained seem to be
people who haven't done Niceand in a way, I loved Kona when
it was woman only that firsttime there was such a different
energy on that island, becausewomen can be fierce and humble

(53:49):
at the same time.
Us men, we struggle with that.
We're a little bit too arrogantand I'm generalizing and we
kind of dominate, like somepeople say, we steal the air.
And it was amazing to have thatwomen's only race in Kona and
the energy there was amazing andthe locals were like wow, we're
loving this.

(54:09):
But what a race, what a race.
100% of the women that startedfinished that swim and 97%
finish a race Of the women thatstarted that race, finished that
swim.
A 97% finisher rate of thewomen that started that race.
Finished the race and peoplesaid, oh, so many of those women
who qualified didn't deserve it.
They got easy slots.
There's nothing easy about Konaand all those women who got

(54:32):
those soft slots 97% of themfinished.
So you cannot argue that it'sworked.
What does the future hold?
I don't know, because it'sreally nice when women and men
race together.
That's one of the great thingsabout triathlon, right, we've,
we've been, we haven'tdiscriminated against the

(54:53):
genders.
We were one of the first sportson the planet to have equal
prize money for our women andthe women and the men race the
genders.
We were one of the first sportson the planet to have equal
prize money for our women andthe women and the men race the
same course.
And Daniela Ryf wants to raceJan Frodeno, sam Laidlaw, lucy
wants to race Patrick Langerthey do.
And let me tell you somethingChrissie Wellington made the
boys faster.
Daniela Ryf made the boysfaster, not just Morton Giles in

(55:18):
carbon shoes and lightweightbikes and aerodynamics.
So there's a lot to be said forracing together, but I don't
believe the experiment of racingapart in the way we had, which,
seemingly, was the only optionwe had to be fair to both
genders.
I don't think that was a failedexperiment.

(55:39):
Having been there, I saw withmy own eyes how the athletes
reveled in being a part of eachof those world championships,
whether they were nice womenonly men only, or kona, women
only men only it's reallydifficult, isn't it?

Charlie Reading (55:56):
I mean so, uh, you know, claire was racing in
the year that kona was male andfemale and I was there
spectating and it was an amazingexperience for well for me,
because I got to watch it twice.
Claire got to watch the guysrace after she raced on the on
the thursday.
It was absolutely brilliant.
But equally, I get that Konadidn't think it was brilliant

(56:20):
and yet also, it must be reallydifficult having them completely
separate.
If you've got a couple of bothqualified and go, well, I can't
justify going to Nice and Kona,and they're probably the same
for the sponsors as well.
So it's a really difficultsituation.

Paul Kaye (56:36):
I don't know the details because, keep in mind,
I'm a freelancer, I'm acontractor to Ironman, so I'm
not on the inside and I don't.
I have probably a better viewthan most because I get to look
from the outside and I get aninside view and I get to read
between the lines.
But I don't wish to share myassumptions because that would
be rude and unfair.

(56:56):
But anybody who's in the eventsbusiness will tell you that
doing both events in one venueon one day or one week in one
week is way more cost effectivethan doing it twice.
I mean, the software model isreplication, not duplication.
Use the same infrastructure andjust do it over and over and

(57:19):
over again.
So I would imagine fromIronman's point of view, this is
a ridiculously expensiveexercise.
And then you talk about for thesponsors how expensive it is
for them too, because some ofthem choose one or the other and
many do both.
I think to be fair and I don'tknow the stats I doubt that

(57:39):
couples qualifying for the worldchampionship is a huge
percentage of the field.
I presume it's a pretty smallpercentage of the field.
But yeah, that's not nice forthem and it makes them
impossibly expensive.
However, you can't take awayfrom.
I know a lot of people who turndown kona slots because it's too

(58:02):
expensive to get there yeah,particularly from south africa.
So that from anywhere in europeand from south africa and from
the middle east, where his niecepeople were bringing their
whole families with them.
You know, you know, and danielaAblamel and several other
German athletes said, my wholefamily and my extended family

(58:22):
and my friends drove to Nice tosupport me because they could.
And is that a bad thing?
The more people we bring to anIronman, the more people that
get to experience a worldchampionship.
So think of all those women whogot to Kona who otherwise would
never have been able to go.
Think of all those women whocame to Nice who otherwise never

(58:47):
might have been able to race aworld championship.
And likewise we can have many,many more male slots, because
we're not sharing the jetty atKona with male and female, it's
one gender only.
So more people were there.
These are more people whoexperienced a world championship
, more people who went home andinfluenced their communities to
maybe try to maybe unleash theirwhy.

(59:10):
So I'm only seeing positives.
However, I do not dispute themagnitude, the exponential
increase in cost and difficultyto host these two events and, if
I'm not mistaken, I heardrumors when I was in BOPOL for
the 70.3 World Championship thatI'm not an athlete so I don't

(59:32):
get that easy emails, butIronman athletes got emailed a
survey asking them which wouldyou prefer?
Ironman athletes got emailed asurvey asking them which would
you prefer?
So clearly Ironman is listeningto its athletes, even though
people seem to think they don't.
They've got a business to run.
They're going to make adecision.
What that is, I don't know.
What does the future hold?

(59:53):
I don't know.
But damn, am I happy I got tobe part of everything that it's
been until now.

Charlie Reading (59:59):
Absolutely, it's not a question and, having
now raced Kona, I am really keento race Nice, and partly
because you've sold it to me acouple of times now, but I think
it sounds like an amazing race.
Now, as we look to wind thisamazing episode up and this
brilliant interview, we alwaysask our guests what books have

(01:00:22):
they found that have helped themon their journey or do they
find themselves recommending toother people?
So what books do you find thatyou find yourself recommending?

Paul Kaye (01:00:35):
So, firstly, when you use the word book, you're
making the assumption that I'mintelligent and if you've ever
been to one of my race briefings, if you ever listened to me at
a finish line this is a term Iuse all the time If I was
intelligent, if I was good withmaths and good at reading, I'd
have a real job.
But I do read.
I read a huge amount online,but I do read.

(01:01:01):
I read a huge amount online,keeping in touch on socials with
what's happening with athletesand what's happening in our
sport.
In my job, you're preparingdaily.
You're prepping for your racesdaily, you're consuming and you
have to be a sponge and absorbas much information as possible
and hopefully something sticksand hopefully it pops into your
RAM and is available to come outof your mouth at the right time
when something happens in frontof you.

(01:01:23):
I watch a lot of YouTube becauseI travel a lot and it's easy
access to English medium for meand I make a point of trying to
learn, not just be entertained.
Trying to learn, not just beentertained.
So I indulge in my passions offlying and cars and stuff like
that, but also my passion oftriathlon and sport and one of

(01:01:44):
my big passions at the moment isgravel biking and bikepacking,
so I indulge in a lot of thatand you'd be surprised how much
you learn about people and howmuch you learn about endurance
and what it takes to endure whenyou consume all of that.
But I still like to read and Ilike to read a book.
I like to hold it in my handand I use flying to read.

(01:02:07):
And a book I'm reading at themoment it's lying just over
there because I'm in my bedroomand it's just on the bedside.
It's called Stillness is theKey and it's a brilliant book.
And it's a book about quietingthe noise in your head so that
you can find inner peace,because in that peace magic

(01:02:28):
happens.
And I'm summarizing it andweirdly that ties in with a
wonderful article I read thatMark Allen wrote gosh many, many
years ago about how, as anathlete, you must turn off the
noise in your head and let yourbody do what it can do.
For a lot of us we have mantrasor we have that positive speak.
But you know, when you go intothat dark space in an Ironman

(01:02:51):
marathon, which we all go into,sometimes that positive voice
goes quiet and then the as thevoice is the voice telling you
that you can't.
But if you learn to still themind, if you learn to let the
body do what it can do, itsurprises you.
And another little tip forpeople when you're enduring is I

(01:03:13):
remember reading, because Iused to work for Runner's World,
and there was an article inRunner's World magazine about
how you can fake it to make itand the power of the smile.
And when you put a smile onyour face you're tricking your
brain into thinking you'rehaving a good time.
And I needed to use that on avery long ride recently and I
kept putting a smile on my faceand it bloody works, let me tell
you.

(01:03:33):
So stillness and that smile ispowerful.
I try and only read nonfiction.
So I read almost all of MalcolmGladwell's books and the 10,000
hours and I think also whenpeople said to me you know what
took you so long?
I think I needed my 10,000hours of announcing because it

(01:03:55):
was my hobby and that kind ofculminated with me turning 40
and having the courage to go anddo this full time.
A book that stood out for me inmy broadcasting years and was a
gift from my general manager atthe time of commercial
broadcasting was Richard BransonLosing my Virginity, and what I
learned from that is sometimesyou've just got to take a chance

(01:04:16):
.
You know, when you've gotnothing to lose is often when
you're forced to take thatchance and go big.
I learned that.
You know we fear failure, butnot starting is the ultimate
failure.
So at least go ahead and go outthere and do something.
Atomic Habits.

(01:04:41):
Another person who I love at themoment is Stephen Fry and just
his outlook on the world andMacca's book.
I'm here to Win it.
Chrissy's book and she signedall her books for me.
You know she taught me so muchabout the psychology of what we
she went through to win it.
Lance Armstrong's books and thedemons he his book and she
signed all her books for me.
You know she taught me so muchabout the psychology of what we
she went through to win it.
Lance armstrong's books and thedemons he was running away from

(01:05:04):
.
Also, the power of your why, uh,the iron wall.
You know I've read so many ofthese books and and hella
frederickson's book.
Um, read those books and readas many sporting biographies as
you can, because they don't onlyteach you how to succeed in
sport, they teach you how tosucceed in life.
Read books by highly successfulpeople in business because they

(01:05:29):
teach you how to succeed andyou can take the metaphors and
the analogies they give you inbusiness and you can apply them
to everything you do in yourlife.
So I highly recommend readingand I can definitely recommend
reading.
Stillness is the key becauseyou unleash inner powers that

(01:05:49):
you didn't know you had.

Charlie Reading (01:05:51):
Brilliant.
There was lots there.
Brilliant books, so manybrilliant books, most of which I
have read or at least heard of,but I haven't heard of.
Stillness is the key, so that'sgoing to be going on my reading
list, thank you.
I think that's brilliant.

Paul Kaye (01:06:03):
I love my first business book I ever read.
I was still at school and withlee iacocca who turned around
general motors or was itchrysler?
He turned it around and thething that I never forget in
that book how is he reduced hissalary to $1.
So, in other words, I'm goingto preach something to you, but

(01:06:26):
I'm going to show you that I'mgoing to walk my talk.
He went to the unions and saidyou're killing this business.
I need you to take a cut, Ineed you to work with me and
share my strategy to rebuildChrysler, and I will do one
dollar a year salary.
And that stood with me as well.
So hence I say a lot of those,those biographies and I don't

(01:06:50):
mean like business self-helpbooks per se, I mean like
biographies, like real peoplewho did real things.
I've been reading a lot of musklately, but then it's kind of
annoyed me a little bit becauseI'm not sure I completely agree
with him shouting to the worldabout oh, you're all
misinformation and free speech,free speech, but then he shuts

(01:07:11):
everybody down because he has somany followers.

Charlie Reading (01:07:13):
But I think there's a lot of us thinking
that at the moment isn't there,there's, there's like.
I followed Musk for years,think he was an amazing
businessman and like a completevisionary, and yet he's also
lost a huge amount of hisfollowers through what he's been
up to lately.
But that's probably a wholedifferent episode that we can
stay away from.
Today.
The last way we finish up eachepisode is we get the last guest

(01:07:34):
to ask the next guest aquestion without knowing who
that is going to be.
So our last guest was ChrisWilliams from Supertry, and I
think Claire has got hisquestion for you.

Claire Fudge (01:07:47):
Okay, so what was the best purchase that you've
made for under £100?
I'm not sure what that is inrand.

Paul Kaye (01:07:57):
Yeah, it's a reasonable amount of money.
Okay, so 100 pounds times arebasically by 20.
So it's it's 2000 South Africanrand, if I'm not mistaken.
Yeah, best purchase probablynoise cancelling earbuds.
I travel a huge amount and, asI mentioned, I'm I only learned

(01:08:19):
recently about myself.
I thought I was shy, but I'mmore than that.
I'm an introvert.
So an extrovert recharges fromthe energy of others.
An introvert recharges throughbeing away from others.
Hence I live in the country.
I go to bed at night to thesound of frogs, I wake up to the
sound of birds, I can't heartraffic.

(01:08:41):
It's 35 hectares, which is 80acres, with only 60 houses, of
which people are only hereduring their holidays or
weekends.
So I have complete stillnessaround me and I use the time
when I travel to recharge, andso that's when noise-canceling
headphones are a dream.

(01:09:03):
It cancels out the crying babywith a person on their phone
without their earphones, whichdrives me batty.
And the noise-cancelingheadphones, I can put myself
briefly in a bubble.
I can listen to that wonderfulSwedish jazz trio that I just
discovered, or I can listen to apodcast, or I can just

(01:09:26):
disappear into a world offantasy with a great album that
takes me back to my childhood orto the 80s or to the 90s.
So, sub-100 pounds, without adoubt, a great pair of noise
cancelling, not over-earheadphones little earbuds.
Because great pair of noisecancelling, not over ear
headphones, little earbuds.
Because sometimes when I fallon the plane, they don't get in
the way.
Fall asleep on the plane, theydon't get in the way.

Claire Fudge (01:09:46):
That's a great answer.
It actually ties in with whatyou were saying about the power
of music.
So there's music there if youwant it at the right time, and
also the power of silence thatyou talked about as well, or the
book that you're reading aroundsilence.
That's a great idea, though Ithought it would be quite hard
to come up with something under£100.
That was really great, butthat's a good answer.

Paul Kaye (01:10:06):
If you travel a lot, you do need to put yourself in a
bubble once in a while, and soif you're always on trains,
buses, planes, in the car, I canjust Bluetooth my phone and
live on my Spotify playlist.
But when you're surrounded bythousands of people all the time

(01:10:27):
in airports and train stationsand whatever gosh, they are a
lifesaver.

Charlie Reading (01:10:33):
I couldn't agree with you more, and I
actually have a set of these,but also the overhead ones, and
I don't particularly, but on aflight, if you're not trying to
be asleep, then they they are.
I mean like they are just yeah,they're like a sanctuary.
They make flying pleasant as ayeah.
So I couldn't agree with youmore.

Paul Kaye (01:10:50):
I think it's sometimes I struggle with the
over here.
Sometimes it pushes pressureagainst my ear.
On a long flight it starts tohurt where I find the in-ear
buds.
I don't get that pressure, sojust top travel hack.

Charlie Reading (01:11:06):
I think just both.
Both is good.

Claire Fudge (01:11:09):
That's it for £100 though.

Charlie Reading (01:11:10):
Charlie, the Apple ones are definitely over
£100.
Paul, it has been absolutelybrilliant chatting to you.
I I was fascinated to learnmore about your story as to how
you got into what you, uh, whatyou do, um, but you changed the
lives as part of that journey ofthe iron man changing people's
lives and it really has, youknow, it really has made a huge

(01:11:32):
impact on me.
It's brilliant to to learn moreabout some of the science
behind it, as well as the thewhy that puts you there.
So a huge thank you foreverything you do as part of
making those races special andobviously also for being on the
podcast today.

Paul Kaye (01:11:47):
Thank you very much.
Thank you for your time andthank you for listening.

Charlie Reading (01:11:50):
If you want to find out more about Paul and his
amazing journey and all theincredible races that he ends up
at.
The best place to find him areon Instagram, where he's paulk
and that's K-A-Y-E.
Same on Facebook and also hiswebsite, paulkcoza Claire.
What did you make of thatincredible interview with Paul?

Claire Fudge (01:12:13):
Actually I loved how he was talking about emotion
and actually you know he wastalking about emotion and
actually you know he reallyshowed that emotion during that
interview as well.
There were lots of surprisingparts to it, I guess, in terms
of not what you'd expect from ananswer.
You know, when we were talkingabout some of the people's whys

(01:12:33):
and their stories or what's thebest thing that you know, the
most inspirational story thathe's heard, as you know,
someone's crossed the finishline and actually I guess some
of those stories that he talkedabout aren't the stories you'd
necessarily expect, and that isthat was very emotional actually
to hear that.
And he must have so many ofthose stories that don't get

(01:12:56):
told.
But he ends up learning overthe course of you know, of of an
event, somebody's why is always, um, interesting to hear, but I
think you know what he wassaying is your why has to be
real?
Um, because I don't know aboutyou, but I think some people try
to find their why as opposed toit coming from from here.

(01:13:17):
I don't know what you, what'syour thoughts on that?

Charlie Reading (01:13:19):
well, I think, firstly, you're absolutely right
.
I think he has become veryaware of his why and I think
that is then very powerful and Ithink he he has achieved what
he wanted to achieve because ofknowing that why.
I have no doubt that those twoare linked.

(01:13:40):
I agree that some people sortof their why is there?
I want this to be my why.
But actually I think it's whenyou really get to the heart of
what is your why, like if my whyis to beat cancer and to be the
best I can be for my kids, thatI don't see as much as I want
to see that you know, you reallyknow that that is going to

(01:14:02):
deliver you, um, to do what'simportant.
So I thought the power of whitepiece was fascinating.
I absolutely agree with theemotion piece.
I mean he, yeah, like you couldreally see how, how much
Chantal getting to the finishline and then being a part of
that and him being a specialpart of of her journey.
It is amazing but like he'sgoing to have been a part of so

(01:14:28):
many of those journeys.
And I think it's interestinghow he said you know, iron man,
I'll get the criticism for this,that and the other.
But actually what he said andwhat Bob Babbitt has said and
what so many other people havesaid is it it's so powerful.
It helps people in so many ways.
Finishing an Ironman it issomething really quite special

(01:14:48):
and you aren't ever the sameperson that started it.
So I think I think it wasreally brilliant, but I also
loved how he understands it'shis job to bring out that
emotion and get the experienceto be so amazing.
So, yeah, I thought that wasabsolutely fascinating and the
power of both his voice, his ofsilence and of music, of really

(01:15:22):
kind of creating that atmosphere.
Because I've done lots oftriathlons.
Only an Ironman start is likean Ironman start.
I mean, you've done, you'veraced far longer than me and
you've raced far more than Ihave.
Have you ever had a startthat's like an Ironman?

Claire Fudge (01:15:33):
no, and actually one of the best Ironman starts,
I think, actually was in Finlandthey played.
Was it their national?
Was it part of their nationalanthem?
It's amazing.
If you never heard it, I meanforgive me because I can't
remember what it's called, butthat was brilliant to start to.
So I think you don't realizehow much it sounds so simple,

(01:15:53):
doesn't it?
Well, you know, get theaudience going, do some
commentating, be the announcer,and actually it's so simple,
that't it?
Well, you know, get theaudience going, do some
commentating, uh, be theannouncer, and actually it's so
simple that actually it'scomplicated.

Charlie Reading (01:16:03):
there's a lot, you know, there's a lot of
experience, and I think thatthat brings and actually this
comes into business, yourexperience actually brings
simplicity, you know, you canand where you make clear
processes around it and say,right, at 29 seconds before we
start the race, I wantthunderstruck starting, because
we know that that means that weget the and that is like that's

(01:16:26):
I mean, but that's becausethey've built a clear process,
so they go.
That happens every time.
It's scalable, it's repeatableyeah, they can do it across
every race.
Um, yeah, I think that'sbrilliant.
I was also um racing the um theironman wales race after the
queen died and um, again, theyhad that really difficult

(01:16:46):
problem of well, they alwayssing the welsh nathland anthem
on tenby beach before the startand his male welsh male voice
choir.
But we now have, we're nowgoing to sing god save the King,
not God Save the Queen.
First time I ever heard GodSave the King sung was on that
beach and they and they have tothat balancing piece but also
bring everybody.

(01:17:06):
I thought it was fascinating.

Claire Fudge (01:17:08):
No, absolutely, and you know.
Another thing that came acrossto me as well is about and I
guess this comes into businessand also into speaking and
engaging your team or whether,that's you know, a whole room
full of people is that it isn'tabout you but it's actually
about everybody else, and Ithought that, really, that you
know was a really great kind ofyou know statement that he made,

(01:17:31):
and I think that's, I thinkagain, you know, in business,
that is something to take away.
You know, if you're talking toyour teams, actually it's about
your teams and I know you alwaystalk about, um, you know,
certainly in the trusted team,you always talk about, you know,
getting your team to actuallygive your ideas and tell what,
tell, tell you what they'rethinking first, and that it's

(01:17:51):
not about your voice at you know, at the front.

Charlie Reading (01:17:53):
So, yeah, that kind of resounded with me and as
a public speaker, you're alwaystold, know, you've got to be
focused on your audience, not onyourself, because that's the
way you get rid of your nerves,isn't it?
That's where you deliver themost.
Is how can?
If you've got the mindset ofhow can I help them the most,
you're not worried about you.
Know, am I looking right?
Do I?

(01:18:14):
You know like it?
Just, you just focus on themand that's and that's how you,
kind of um, perform the best.
So I thought it was, yeah,really interesting, but also
really interesting how he's kindof brought in his 10 000 hours
from one route and he's broughtin his 10 000 hours from another
route and he's brought inanother probably not, maybe not
10 000 hours worth of iron manracing, but brought them all

(01:18:38):
together to put himself in aunique possession that makes him
one of only one or two peoplein the world that can deliver
what he does, which is reallyspecial.
So, yeah, really really greatinterview and I'm looking
forward to racing Klagenfurtbased on his conversation around

(01:18:58):
that, and Nice, and Nice,hopefully.
Yes, I definitely, definitelywant to get to Nice.
That means I've got to trainharder, right, but another
brilliant episode, I'm sureyou'll agree, and for everyone
listening at home.
Keep on training.