From Spectator to World Champion: Kathleen McCartney's Ironman Journey

What does it take to endure? To win? And to keep coming back? In this episode, we sit down with one of the most iconic figures in endurance sport - Ironman champion Kathleen McCartney. 

You may know her as the winner of the legendary 1982 Ironman, the race that gave us 'The Crawl.' But her story didn’t stop at the finish line. Kathleen shares the mindset that took her from an inexperienced college student to an Ironman world champion in just a year. 

She opens up about coming back to racing after kids, rebuilding herself through endurance sport after divorce, and the wisdom she’s gained from coaching. She reveals the greatest lessons she learned from legendary mentors, including Bill Bachrach, and the surprising friendship that brought her back to Kona decades later. 

Whether you’re an athlete, entrepreneur, or someone looking to overcome life’s challenges, Kathleen’s story will inspire you to redefine what’s possible. 

Highlights:

• Winning 1982 Ironman: A Shared Moment of Sporting History
• Returning Stronger: Ironman Comebacks Through Motherhood and Divorce
• Friendship Forged in Competition: Completing Kona with Julie Moss
• Coaching with Purpose: TriDot and Smarter Training Principles
• Cancer, Community, and Comebacks: The Mike Levine Story
• Mental Strength for Life: Endurance Lessons Beyond the Finish Line

Links:
Connect with Kathleen through Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kathmccartney/?hl=en

Connect with Kathleen through LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kathleen-mccartney-94652268/

Connect with Kathleen through TriDot: https://www.tridot.com/coach/kathleen-mccartney

Please Subscribe to Business of Endurance on Apple Podcasts, leave a comment, and give us a 5-Star review.

This episode was sponsored by The Trusted Team and 4th Discipline

Episode Transcript

Kathleen McCartney (00:07):
the win, the win, the win.
100.
I worked really hard for thatwin.
I trained really well for thewin.
So did julie.
It just happened to like that'show it turned out.
On that race day, you know, Ireally feel like we shared the
iconic moment.
I don don't care about theattention.
You know like people will evenleave me out of an entire

(00:28):
conversation of the 1982 WorldChampionship finish and talk
about Julie.

Charlie Reading (00:33):
I don't have a problem with that and to keep
coming back.
In this episode we sit downwith one of the most iconic
figures in endurance sport,ironman champion Kathleen
McCartney.
You may know her as the winnerof the legendary 1982 Ironman

(00:55):
race, the race that gave us thecrawl, but her story didn't stop
at that finish line.
Kathleen shares the mindsetthat took her from an
inexperienced college student toan Ironman world champion in
just a year.
She opens up about coming backto racing after having children,
rebuilding herself forendurance sport after divorce

(01:19):
and the wisdom she's gained fromcoaching.
She reveals the greatestlessons she learned from
legendary mentors, includingBill Bacharach, and the
surprising friendship thatbrought her back to Kona decades
later.
Whether you're an athlete, anentrepreneur or someone looking
to overcome life's challenges,kathleen's story will inspire

(01:41):
you to redefine what's possible.
So let's dive in to thisconversation with the legend
that is Kathleen McCartney.
Do you know what?
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We see that 57% of the peoplethat regularly listen to it

(02:02):
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(02:26):
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Let's dive in.

(02:47):
So, kathleen, welcome to theBusiness of Endurance podcast.
I am really looking forward tothis conversation.
I think this is going to be areally special discussion around
, particularly going back to theearly days of Ironman, which I
absolutely love, and that'swhere I really want to start.
Early days of Ironman, which Iabsolutely love, and that's
where I really want to start,but in fact, like kind of what I

(03:07):
want, I'd love to know thestory about how you ended up
getting into Ironman, because Ithink it's it's quite a magical
introduction.
So but tell us, how did you endup getting into the, the sport
of triathlon and Ironman inparticular?

Kathleen McCartney (03:23):
Well, I had never even heard of a triathlon
back in until like 1980.
And so for me, making adecision the following year to
do an Ironman was something thatwas just pretty.
It was nowhere on my radar atall.
I went over to Kona in 1981 towatch the Ironman for the very

(03:47):
first time.
It was on the big island ofHawaii, and so this was all just
so exciting to me.
But I had no intention of doingan Ironman.
It wasn't, like I said, nowhereon the radar, but the fact that
I'd never seen an Ironman, I'dnever watched it on TV, I didn't
really know the magic and theallure and the draw and just

(04:11):
everything that Ironman offersto spectators.
So I was there and I justthought, god, these people
during race week, like how couldthey even possibly run a
marathon in this heat and thehumidity?
And I just felt kind ofexhausted being a spectator.
So it all again.

(04:33):
It just reinforced howimpossible and crazy and it was
all so new.
Well, on race morning I decidedto watch the race from the
seawall.
So I'm just sitting on theseawall, I can see, you know,
captain Bean's boat.
You know, 1.2 miles out to sea.
You know, we're kind of likewatching the sun come up.

(04:54):
And then, as the athletesstarted to go into the water, I
started to feel this ridiculousenergy and it was like these
people were like terrified,excited, probably just felt so
empowered and and I don't know.
I think everyone's energy wasjust radiating to me and I just

(05:18):
started to feel this kind oflike burning desire to like of
like burning desire to like wishthat I was in that water
instead of on seawall and I justthought, wow, these people are
just doing something soimpossible and so crazy and I
don't want to be a spectator inlife, like I'm going to do that.

(05:38):
And then, when the gun went off, I was just like, oh my God, oh
yeah, yeah, I'm doing this.
Next year, I'm going to be inthat water, I'm going to swim
out there to Captain Bean's boatget out there and I'm going to
do an Ironman.
And that it literally startedjust with the energy of the
athletes and the visualspectacle and energy that I felt

(06:01):
for doing something that seemedimpossible to me.

Charlie Reading (06:06):
And what had taken you to Kona to watch the
Ironman in the first place.
What took you there?

Kathleen McCartney (06:11):
I was going there to watch a boyfriend race
in his second Ironman, so thatwas my introduction to the sport
as well was through him.

Charlie Reading (06:22):
And Claire and I both know, obviously, what
that seawall is like and thestart and the just I mean just
just for those people that havenever witnessed that as like so
we've never really, we've notreally spoken about spectating
during that race.

Kathleen McCartney (06:36):
Just try to describe what's magical about
that, that start of the race oh,oh well, the mass start, which
most people are no longerfamiliar with because they took
the mass start out of Ironman.
And so when you're seeing, Ithink there were like 365 people

(06:56):
or 385 people in 1981.
And so to see that many peopleall lined up together, and so to
see that many people all linedup together, you know that in
itself was just incredible tosee and everybody just looked so
fit.
You know, they're just likegoing down the steps and getting
into the water and you're likewho are these people, like what

(07:19):
makes them tick?
And then there's a helicopter,abc helicopter overhead, and ABC
Wide World of Sports is there.
And you know just something tosee a live event like that, when
you had no idea what you'reabout to see, was awe inspiring.

Claire Fudge (07:39):
I think I always say that to be a spectator is
actually a really hard day, butit is amazing, isn't it?
To follow, follow a competitor.
Maybe, Kathleen there was anulterior motive there to your
boyfriend bringing you along tospectate at the event to become
the next athlete.

Kathleen McCartney (07:57):
Yeah, I don't think he would have ever
had guessed that.

Claire Fudge (08:01):
Well, I'm really intrigued.
I love the history of Ironmanand obviously we're going're
going to come on to one of theamazing stories.
But females in Ironman, whenyou first started competing,
what kind of numbers were thereLike you know, how many women
were there in a field Like?
What did that look like?

Kathleen McCartney (08:23):
It was very small field in 1982.
When I raced, there were, Ithink, 565 total athletes and
and there were only like 51women, so it was like about 10%,
and so I'm kind of surprisedthat those numbers are not 50-50

(08:45):
.
They have not been 50-50.
And that is my dream to likegrow the sport, motivate women
to find the time, the space toget this in their lives, whether
it's an Ironman or 70.3 or atriathlon.
But I would love to see thosenumbers be, you know, 50, 50.

Claire Fudge (09:06):
I mean, those numbers sound really tiny and I
totally understand what you'resaying about.
You know still that hasn't it'sincreased, but you don't still
see those that that split.
When you decided you were goingto do that, did people then
think you were absolutely mad?

Kathleen McCartney (09:20):
Yeah for sure.
Like my family could notunderstand it, my friends
couldn't understand it.
Like how could?
They wasn't a big thing, itwasn't mainstream at all.

(09:47):
But I got so much encouragementfrom all my loved ones and
friends and then I immediatelyhad a very supportive community
to train with.
I was the only woman in thegroup but because my boyfriend
at the time had done two Ironmanraces, you know, I basically

(10:07):
was just kind of thrown in thepack and I thought, oh, wow, In
addition to wanting to dosomething really hard, like the
training is really hard andreally long.
So my whole sense of distancelike oh, you go out on 60 mile
bike rides or a hundred mileride, Okay, Well, that's just
what you do if you're trainingfor Ironman.

Claire Fudge (10:26):
So I was kind of just like said to the wolves and
thrown right in yeah, it soundslike you were, and especially
with that group of men to trainaround.
I guess you had to, you know,had to keep up.

Kathleen McCartney (10:37):
Yeah it was scary.

Claire Fudge (10:38):
So what happened from that moment when you you
know you'd watched, you'dwatched your partner at this
event, you wanted to to doIronman.
You just talked about startingtraining.
So what happened in the 1982Ironman World Championships?
What happened then?
So talk us through the day,what you were feeling and, of
course, what happened towardsthe end as well.

Kathleen McCartney (10:59):
Yes, yes.
So that year, that day in 1981,when I decided to do an Ironman
, of course my goal was just tofinish right.
I mean that would be audaciousto think anything else.
I mean, I kind of came up,let's wrote out some rough
numbers, you know, like from dayone I'm like, wow, I think I

(11:21):
could do this in like 15 hours,even though I wasn't a swimmer
or a cyclist or runner at thetime.
But then over the course of theyear I just found incredible
gifts of strength, endurance,determination, desire, passion,
and I just loved it so much andI really made a lot of progress.

(11:41):
So by the time I got to Kona in1982, I did show up thinking
that I could win the racebecause I had won all the races
that I had entered.
I entered two half Ironmanraces and won them both, and in
one of them, the Navy SEAL SuperFrog, I got ninth overall for

(12:04):
men and women.
So I kind of had a lot ofpositivity going into the race.
So I've showed up and like,yeah, if I race my own race and
have a great race, like I couldbe first, which was kind of
crazy to think that that couldhappen in a year.

Charlie Reading (12:21):
So tell us then .
So you've gone into it, goingright, I could win this.
Tell us the story of how thatday played out.

Kathleen McCartney (12:29):
Well, it didn't go as planned, as you
could probably attest to.
Like you know how many, howmany races do you do that are
like your dream race, you know?
Right, the story would be toolong, but I did have what I
thought was a food poisoningevent and ended up in the
hospital the two days before therace.
So I had to change my mentalperspective and goal from

(12:52):
wanting to win to wanting tojust finish again.
So I got out of the hospitalafter being on IVs the night
before, I bought out on Fridayat noon and then I just prayed
for a horrific storm so theycould postpone it, you know, one
more day, so I could get mystrength back and like maybe
even eat food and drink.

(13:13):
But that didn't happen.
So I showed up at the startline going like I don't, I don't
care, I'm going to like forgetabout what I've gone through the
last two days and just like,I've got to finish this race.
So that was my mindset and Ithink that's something that has
been so important and sovaluable throughout my entire

(13:34):
life and career is to just say,hey, you know you may be dealt
with something really, reallyunexpected and some challenges
to overcome, but like figure itout and always get to the finish
line and never, ever give uphope.
And so that was such a greatway to kind of like start my day

(13:58):
, because I learned somethingand my very first Ironman before
I even started it's all aboutyour attitude Like you can't.
I couldn't change anything else, but I could control my
attitude.
So I went into the attitudejust like go for it, give it
your best.
I had a terrible swim Like Iwent at least 12 minutes slower

(14:21):
than I expected.
I felt so weak.
I remember getting out of theswim and feeling like, oh my God
, this is what it must feel tofinish an Ironman.
I was just completely wiped out.
I wasn't a strong swimmer andso that was part of the problem,
but that took so much out of me.
So I was kind of like well,okay, I found out that I was

(14:44):
like 21 minutes behind the leadwomen and I'm like okay, so I
just got on the bike and,because I hadn't really had an
opportunity to eat or drink fora few days because I was so
massively sick, I just startedfeeling better and better and
stronger throughout the bike andI'm like wow, I feel like I'm

(15:08):
getting my power back and as Iate and drank and everything, I
just felt stronger and strongerand by the time I got off the
bike I didn't know it, but I'dactually set a record on the
bike and I was still 21 minutesbehind the leader because Julie
Moss ended up riding the bikeone minute slower than me.
So, you know, I was still, likeyou know, not in a front

(15:34):
running position, but I wentinto the transition room where
you actually like change yourclothes.
You know we had transitionswhere we wore swimsuits, changed
into our clothes, then got offthe bike and went into a
changing room, changed intoclothes.
So our transitions were quitelong.
But I got out of T2 when it wasout by the hotel at the time

(15:56):
it's called the Connoisseur, andI had to run up a hill to start
the run and I just I'll neverforget it I felt like I hadn't
even been on my bike.
I felt like I was starting themarathon with fresh legs and I'm
like what the heck?
This feels amazing.
So that was another surprise.

(16:16):
So I was just getting strongerand stronger throughout the day.
I found out that I was 21minutes behind.
There were some like.
Found out that I was 21 minutesbehind.
There were some like, but I waslike maybe I was like in sixth
place, so that was veryinspiring.
By the time I got into mile six, I was in second place behind

(16:38):
Julie Moss and I started 21minutes behind Julie at the
start of the run and my attitudewas just go my pace.
I know what I need to do today.
I've trained for this.
I'm going to believe in my ownpacing and nutrition and I'm
just going to go out there anddo my best and hope it's good
enough to win.

Charlie Reading (16:56):
I think I'm right in saying that you
overturned the biggest margin ofin the world championship
history.
I think that 21 minutes is thegreatest that anyone's come back
from.
At what point did you thinkactually I could potentially win
this?
And then, what was yourexperience of that incredible
finish line moment?

Kathleen McCartney (17:17):
this changed for me when I got to see Julie
for the first time.
So Julie was leading, I, and atmile 18, there's a great big
Bud Light inflatable can.
It was two story high becauseat the at that time Bud Light
was the title sponsor, so 80s.

(17:37):
And so I'm running towards theBud Light can and Julie is now
turning around.
Now she's got eight miles to goand I'm like, as Julie's
approaching me, I'm like, oh,she does not look good, like I
could see it in her posture.

(17:59):
She was, you know, kind ofshuffling along and I'm like,
hmm, that kind of gave me, like,wow, okay, I looked at, I
looked at my watch, you know,caught a little, you know kind
of shuffling along and I'm like,hmm, that kind of gave me like,
wow, okay, I looked at my watch, you know, caught a little, you
know, looked at my watch, saidokay, I'm going to see how long
it takes me to get there.
And after I came back to thatsame point, I'm like, wow, eight
miles to go and I'm eightminutes down.

(18:20):
So I made up a lot of time andI felt great and I thought Julie
so, but I made a decision atthat point.
I'm sure she made a decision, apoint.
At that point I think Julie waslike, oh, wow, I better pick up
my pace.
And I'm like, oh, I feel great,I'm gonna keep doing what I'm

(18:43):
doing because you know, I didn'twant to blow up.
So, anyway, the race continueson.
Julie has a helicopter on herand I could see that like at one
point I had a after the men'srace finish that there's another
helicopter out there and I'mlike, oh, our helicopters are
getting closer together.

(19:04):
But that was the only time thatI could like see where she was,
because no one.
There's no camera crew on me,there's only one camera crew out
there.
Because they didn't care thatmuch about the women's race at
all.
It had been covered as a men'srace and they would roll the
women's finish at the credits,so they'd never really covered a
woman's race before.

(19:24):
So I could see where Julie wasand I'm like, wow, I feel like
I'm gaining on her, because Icould see from a distance where
her helicopter was.
But I didn't have any idea thatshe was coming unglued.
So the next big moment came asI'm, you know, running my own
race when I got to Hot Corner,when I got to Ali'i Drive, it

(19:48):
was now dark and I was soexcited to be there.
But I'm like, oh, I haven'tcaught her yet.
And now I know I only have aquarter mile to go.
I had no idea that Julie hadjust you know, she'd been
walking and going.
How far back is she?
And I saw this on Rival Sports,that's how I know that but I

(20:08):
had no idea that she wassuffering or coming unglued.
So I got to Hot Corner andthat's the point where Julie
fell for the first time andeveryone at Hot Corner had seen
and witnessed this terribly sadfalling of Julie on the ground.
It took her so long to get backup.

(20:28):
I think it took a minute and ahalf to get back up off the
ground.
So when I get to Hot Corner I'mso excited I'm still giving up
hope I can catch her.
But I get to hot corner and Iexpect people to be like
cheering for me and people werejust like solemn, like no one
was really clapping.
They just witnessed probablyone of the most emotional things

(20:51):
I've ever seen.
And so then I'm like, well,this is odd.
And I go around the corner andthen someone yelled out from the
crowd hey, you can still catchher.
And I'm like what does thatmean?
But it gave me some type of anadrenaline rush, like I had
already gone through the wholeprocess.
Am I going fast enough?

(21:11):
Is this as fast as I can go?
And I thought I was.
And when this person from thecrowd shouted out to me that I
could still catch her, I justgot some extra.
I got like a turbo boost and Ithink I just picked up my legs
higher and I strided faster andI just that gift that someone
gave me of encouragement likehelped propel me to the finish

(21:36):
line.
So I ended up running down aboutthe quarter mile to go.
I'm still running, still.
No, julie, still think I'm insecond place.
And all of a sudden I had tostop because it was dark.
There were bright lights in thetrees that were mounted by ABC
and I couldn't see a thing.
And all of a sudden I stoppedand I'm like this is weird.

(21:57):
Like there's a camera crewright on me, like I could touch
the ABC truck, but where's the?
I had to stop and say where'sthe finish line.
And the ABC camera crew had just, we had just unknowingly passed
Julie.
I had unknowingly passed Julie.
She's on the ground surroundedby people and I didn't see her.
So I'm just stopping and Ihappened to stop right on the

(22:19):
finish line.
The truck pulls away, they pullup the finish banner and they
had already announced Julia'swinner.
Like the last time she startedsprinting and I didn't know that
, I didn't hear that, but shewas only, you know, 25 yards
from the finish line and that'swhere she fell for the last time
.
I passed her unknowingly, gotto the finish line and they just

(22:41):
like held up the finish tapeand told me that I was an
Ironman world champion and I'mlike I got so excited You've
probably seen the video or thephotos and I'm jumping up and
down with my arm over my headand I'm so excited taking it all
in and that.
But then I'm like but wait,like where's Julie?
So I had no idea what hadhappened.
And then I learned it all afterthe joy and excitement of being

(23:05):
told I won, when I thought Iwas coming in for second well,
you must.

Charlie Reading (23:11):
You must also be the only person that's ever
won the Ironman WorldChampionship without actually
knowing's ever won the IronmanWorld Championship without
actually knowing you've won theIronman World Championship.

Kathleen McCartney (23:18):
Exactly, exactly.
And then Julie and I still havethe smallest margin of victory
at the Ironman WorldChampionship 29 seconds, which
is amazing that that is held atWorld Championships all these
years.

Charlie Reading (23:34):
I mean, if any listener is listening to this
and has not seen this footage onyoutube, you absolutely must.
I mean it's just.
I mean it's the iconic moment,isn't it?
And and and?
Ultimately, it was that momentthat got mark allen into racing
and becoming the greatest of alltime.
Arguably, that moment is soiconic in the sport and it
captured the imagination of somany people, but ultimately, it

(23:55):
was actually the footage ofjulie that created that iconic
moment, wasn't it so I supposethe question I wanted to ask you
was you ended up as the winnerof that race, but all the
attention went to julie, andwhat happened to julie and her
battling to get over that finishline.
Given the choice, which, whichwould you take?

(24:16):
The, the, the kind of the, theiconic conversation piece, or
the win for the Ironman WorldChampionship?

Kathleen McCartney (24:25):
there has never, ever even been one doubt
in my mind the win, the win, thewin, 100%.
I worked really hard for thatwin.
I trained really well for thewin.
The win, a hundred percent.
I worked really hard for thatwin.
I trained really well for thewin, so did Julie, and it just.
It just happened to like that'show it turned out on that race
day.
But you know, I really feel likewe shared the iconic moment.

(24:46):
I don't care about theattention, you know like people
will even leave me out of anentire conversation of the 1982
world championship finish andtalk about Julie.
I don't have a problem withthat, because I feel like I went
out there and helped create aniconic finish.

(25:07):
That's the thing you can'treally extract.
We were racing.
So to take Julie out of theequation or me out of the
equation, the reason that shepushed herself to the point of
crawling and falling was becauseshe was trying to win that race
as much as I was.
She wanted to win that race andshe was pushing herself because

(25:29):
she knew that I was on herheels, and so we brought out our
fastest race out of each otherthat day.
You know, could have easilybeen Julia, could have easily
been me one way or the other,but the fact that we were racing
you know this, you know thiswas.
This was a race, not just.
I want to get to the finish.
So I feel that we shared aniconic moment, important to the

(25:57):
history of our sport, and I'mtotally fine with you know,
julie getting that attention.
It was so dramatic andbeautiful.
I love part of it with her.

Claire Fudge (26:07):
It's just amazing to watch that back and actually
when I watched it in the earlydays of myself doing Ironman,
that was just like wow, thepower of women at that time to
like get across the finish line.
So that is just amazing to evengo back to today and watch.
What do you think?
That?
That iconic finish and peoplenow to this day going back and

(26:30):
watching that.
What do you think that's donefor not only the sport of
Ironman but for females inparticular?
Because I know that reallystruck me.
So what do you feel that's donefor females in sport?

Kathleen McCartney (26:42):
That's one of the greatest things I feel
most proud of and that I hold soclose to my heart, is knowing
that Julie and I inspired somany women to go out there and
try and find somethingimpossible and find a way to get
to a start line and find a wayto make it your dream, and so I

(27:04):
think that has been like one ofthe greatest things that I know
we both share and take away fromthat, because we woke up people
off their couches like thatcoverage inspired people who
would never have thought ofdoing a triathlon, let alone
Ironman, and people like, well,she looks like my next-door

(27:26):
neighbor or you know, if she cando it, I can do it and I and I
think that's what really startedgetting men and women like out
of their living rooms and on thestart lines, and so to be a
part of that movement is, for me, one of the greatest parts of
my little contribution.

Claire Fudge (27:49):
I totally agree.
I think it's been a massive, amassive contribution to the
sport, certainly with females inIronman.
So my background, as you mayknow, is I'm a dietician and
nutritionist and I would love toknow what did you do back then
in terms of sports nutrition.
So what did you?
Because you were saying youjust you know, you'd had this
period of 48 hours or more, likeyou know, with a food poisoning

(28:11):
.
You hadn't eaten anything, butyou were getting stronger over
the race.

Kathleen McCartney (28:18):
So, more like you know, with a food
poisoning, you hadn't eatenanything but you were getting
stronger over the race.
So what did you eat and drinkduring that time, during the
race?
And and just to go back to thatpoint, I did later learn that I
did not have food poisoning.
I had exhibited the same signsof food poisoning massively.
But the same thing happened in1983 at exactly the same timing,
and it was a case of nurse, andI had been like mad, like I

(28:42):
thought I was calm butapparently I wasn't, so I
thought I didn't figure that outuntil it happened with the same
timing, wednesday night,thursday morning, massive, yeah.
So anyway, got it, people, yougot to, really Did you find a
way to beat that, those nerves.

Charlie Reading (28:59):
Later on, Did you sub, did?
Was there something that helpedyou solve that problem?

Kathleen McCartney (29:04):
It was really, really hard for me
because I would feel that I wascalm, but internally I wasn't.
Like I would just go down, walkdown to, like you know, to dig
me beach, and like I'd startfeeling, oh my God.
So it's, you know, the pressure.
The pressure to win and thepressure to want to win is so

(29:27):
difficult to deal with and, uh,I didn't overcome it until when
I came back in 2012.
Even when I came back in 2003,which we might talk about later
as, like I'd taken 15 years offof racing but I wanted to come
back as, like this is Iron Momright, and I was approached by I

(29:50):
think at the time it was NBCSports to do a package, because
they're Julie and I both decidedto come back as moms and I said
you know what?
I can't, please don't cover me,because I have a really bad
case of nerves and I'm doingthis for my children, like I
want them to see me train, Iwant them to see me sacrifice, I
want them to learn the lifelessons, but I'm afraid, if you

(30:12):
put the TV on me and that thatwill add too much pressure.
And so that was my firstexperience of saying, okay,
don't, you know you have nothing.
You're not going to win thisthing.
You're here for your family.
I never slept the night beforethe race, but I didn't have the
massive nerves, so I was able toovercome it by taking off the

(30:35):
pressure of winning.

Claire Fudge (30:37):
Yeah, so, so, like , so important.
You mentioned there about yourcomeback in 2003 and then 2012.
Is that is that right?
Yeah, so when you'd been out tosport, you'd had a family.
What made you kind of make thatdecision that you really want
to get back into the sport?

Kathleen McCartney (30:55):
I never wanted to leave the sport and I
felt that I never really didLike through the 80s.
I had, you know, I think I didsix Ironmans from like 82 to 88,
with my PR in 88.
And I always felt like anIronman triathlete.
Like there was never a timewhere I, like took off my

(31:15):
Ironman hat.
It was just like I am anIronman.
I live my life like an Ironman.
I live my life by the values andthe dreams and the hopes and
ambitions and community, and Ilike shared that with my
children, kept it as a standardfor myself and the one thing
that I always kept with me frommy very first race was the

(31:36):
feeling that I could do reallyhard things and I wanted to do
really hard things and that wasmy life goal to know that I had
to keep my fitness and my mentaltoughness, to know that at any
point any day.
If someone asked me, kathleen,you're going to have to get up

(31:57):
in the morning and do an Ironman, I always wanted to say yes and
that has stayed with me.
Like I want to have thementality and the fitness.
I don't train like I'm doing anIronman, but I have the gift
now that that mental toughnessand the lifestyle fitness to be
able to say yeah, I could do.
That gift now, that that mentaltoughness and the lifestyle
fitness to be able to say yeah,I could do that and that's been

(32:17):
huge for me.

Charlie Reading (32:19):
I think it's absolutely brilliant and I know
when we were chatting in Kona,you also talked about how
amazing the community was thatare around the people.
Just tell me a little bit aboutthat before I've got a question
, a sort of follow-up questionfor it.
But what, what, what does thatcommunity mean to you and and
what have you learned about thatcommunity?

Kathleen McCartney (32:39):
that community is one of the
strongest, most inspiring,collaborative, supportive
community you can ever be a partof and throughout my life, I've
gone through some reallyglorious and joyful moments and,
like everybody you know, like apart of and throughout my life,
I've gone through some reallyglorious and joyful moments and,
like everybody you know, like alot of people, have had some
really difficult hardships andthings to overcome in many ways.

(33:02):
And when I was at my lowestpoint after going through a
divorce in 2010, I mean, boy, Ireally hit a low point
emotionally.
Physically, I actually honestlyI couldn't get a grip on like
the mental anguish and losingweight, like to a point where I

(33:24):
just thought, oh my God, I mightdie.
It was, it was very dire and Ithought I have to do something
to.
I couldn't get a grip on it.
I had to do something to likechange my life and find my
touchstone of empowermentbecause, I don't know, I just
got hit really hard.
So I thought, well, I had thisback surgery, so I thought I

(33:46):
could never do an Ironman again,but it was at a time where I
thought I have to focus on whatI can do and I know that I can
swim and I can know that I canbike, but I didn't for years.
I thought I had given up mydream of Ironman.
So I thought I can walk, I canwalk the run.
So like I need to do thisIronman, like I need that sense

(34:09):
of empowerment, I need thefeeling like I'm doing something
that resonates with me, to mycore.
And so I decided to go back andsign up for another Ironman and
bring myself back to life.
And it truly did.
It was transformative, broughtme back to life.
I got healthy again, Iflourished, and it was because

(34:34):
of the community there.
Like anyone, every friend,anyone that's ever done an
Ironman, they are your friendfor life.
Anyone in the community woulddo anything for you.
And so I immediately had thatcommunity again and it was
absolutely the best decision Iever made.

Charlie Reading (34:51):
Amazing, and I think I'm right in saying that
was the year that you then endedup doing it with Julie, isn't
it?
And so what was it like to goback and race as friends rather
than competitors and kind of,yeah, what did that whole race
and journey to the start linemean to you?

Kathleen McCartney (35:10):
That was one of the most magnificent races
for me for so many reasons, andwhen I decided to go back and
made that decision to do Ironman, I thought immediately of like
oh my gosh, I heard Julie hadmoved to San Diego and so it was

(35:31):
just like.
Such an incredible opportunity.
So I called Rep.
I'm like hey, julie, I'm goingto do Ironman in 2012.
Like, would you, would you wantto do it with me?
And she's like oh, no, no, no,I'm retired, do not want to do
Ironman, but I would love totrain with you.
That sounds amazing.
I'd love to support you on yourjourney and I'd love to train

(35:53):
with you.
So we had this most incrediblefor like.
For the first time in our lives,we became friends.
We had never had an opportunityto be friends.
We lived in different, usuallylived in different places.
We're doing different things inour lives.
So it was such a beautiful fullcircle opportunity for us to go
from rivals, because the medialoved to paint us as rivals.

(36:16):
Like every time we'd race, itwould be like oh, you know let's
, you know who's?
So it's always that.
But that wasn't really how itwas for us, and so we were just
so happy to have thisopportunity to like become
friends and then over over time,julie got so excited about it
that she decided to to raceagain, and that's when things

(36:37):
really blew up for both of us,because our community and
Ironman embraced us and we hadlike these glorious sponsorships
that year and it was just somuch fun and we were put into
the spotlight together and hadjust such a beautiful platform

(36:59):
to share our story, our newstory, our new chapter, with the
world and like inspire peopleagain in a different way, and so
that was just a beautiful,beautiful opportunity.

Claire Fudge (37:13):
What did it feel like to kind of come back,
having had a family?
Like you know, for those peopleout there and there's so many
women, certainly of my age, thathave kind of come out of sport,
been racing Ironman at a highlevel, come out and never really
quite get back into it Like anyadvice that you would have in
terms of really busy mums thatare athletes trying to get back

(37:34):
in and a balance you know aswell.

Kathleen McCartney (37:38):
Yeah, it's so hard to find that work life
family balance and try to putour own you know, our our own
wants and goals in there.
I just found that I had to getup so early, you know, just
getting up super early in themorning, like before anyone was
up, and doing workouts, and thendoing workouts when the kids

(37:58):
were at school, and just likenot carving out more time than
you need.
You know, just like Iremembered, I kind of waited to
go back in 2003 until I had allthree of my kids in the same
school so that I could reallymake it work.
So that's that's what I didwhen I came back in 2003.

(38:20):
I just knew it was going to bea big juggling match to try to
put all the pieces together,because the kids were also doing
all their extracurricularactivities and driving to
schools and doing stuff, and soit was a balancing act.
But I did it early in themorning and on my trainer and,

(38:40):
you know, on a weekend day, youknow, I got a babysitter and,
you know, did the training thatI needed, you know, for a few
hours to get the long rides in.

Claire Fudge (38:52):
I guess all those years of you know this routine
that you have as an athlete.
I guess you then put thatroutine around your family and
the training just extra layers,isn't it?
What sort of any advice thatyou'd have for people that are
still doing endurance events,because many people actually,
you know this spans, you knowdecades, doesn't it for people

(39:13):
in terms of sports.
But what you know any advicethat you'd have the people to
really kind of keep in the besthealth in terms of endurance
sports.

Kathleen McCartney (39:21):
You know, as you're getting older in a sport
, yes, I think that continuingtraining throughout life like
just because you finished yourIronman or your 70.3 or your
Olympic race or your whateveryou did, whatever your goal was
your marathon just because youfinished it doesn't mean that
you should stop trainingaltogether.
So I think it's reallyimportant after the, after the

(39:43):
big goals, even if you don'thave any big goals, you know,
keep it as a lifestyle, likeembrace it but make it work,
like you don't always have toswim, bike and run.
Maybe you're just going to runfor an hour, maybe you're just
going to swim and bike or be onyour trainer, but try to
incorporate the training thatyou loved and enjoyed to do for
your big events into yourlifestyle, even even one hour a

(40:06):
day.
And you know it, if we break itdown like that, it's has to be
kind of manageable andbite-sized so you can for sure
get it done.
So I've just tried to maintain,you know, a level of fitness,
doing something throughout mylife.

Charlie Reading (40:24):
And psychologically with that sort
of same problem.
I see friends and hear storiesof people where, where you know
like particularly as somebodythat was winning races, I've
never had that problem, but likethose people that are used to
finishing on the podiums andthen they get to a point where
their motivation they losemotivation because they're not

(40:45):
going to be on the podium andyet you've come back with a very
different mindset in thoseother races.
Have you got any advice for thesort of psychology of those
people that want to carry onracing but need to find a
different reason because it'snot necessarily about being on
the podium?

Kathleen McCartney (41:01):
right.
I mean I was on the podiumthroughout the 80s and then when
I came back like to do my likethe iron mom race and and that I
had some back issues, I willnever be a competitive athlete
now just because of my spine,but I can jog, walk whatever.
So I have given up like beingon the podium but I don't care,

(41:24):
like that's not what drives me.
What drives me is the feelingthat I get from the training and
the racing and the community.
It's not just like, oh, I needto do this for my fitness, it's
something that truly that Itruly love and I love sharing
with others.

(41:44):
And so it's if you can find your, you know, the passion for what
you do and just be cognizant ofhow does that make me feel?
How do I feel when I'm outthere with my friends at the
pool or, you know, on a bikeride or on a run or by myself?
How do I feel after thatworkout?
I mean I feel great.
I love how training makes mefeel, and then there's nothing

(42:08):
like a race, a race of anydistance, with the energy, the
community, and so I absolutelylove, I love racing and it's
really basically the way itmakes me feel and it's just such
a positive thing for me, it'sempowering, it's energizing.
When I'm training and racingand like even in everyday life

(42:33):
and I don't have a goal, I justfeel like I'm just firing on all
cylinders.
I feel really alive and so Iwould just welcome everybody to
kind of like try to find thatfor themselves, like the joy and
the simplicity of doingsomething so invigorating and
unique because you coach andmentor.

Claire Fudge (42:56):
now is that correct?
Yeah and um, I mean just thestory that you've told, and you
know there's so many parts forme that's come out of this story
that you've been tellingalready in terms of you know,
you've got to deal with theunexpected, you just got to keep
going.
You've got to keep going,you've got to pick yourself up,
you've got to carry on.
You know that mindset how doyou help mentor the coaches that

(43:18):
you have, like, how do you helpthem to, from a psychological
point of view, really kind ofget into their mindset?

Kathleen McCartney (43:26):
Yeah, I mean , I love coaching.
This has just been such awonderful opportunity for me to
be working at Tridot, which isabsolutely the best training
platform in the world, and Ifeel so grateful that I have
this and I was able to like findit late in my life.
It was because of Tridot andits platform that I'm able to do
this, because the training it'sworld class.

(43:47):
It's something I couldn'tcreate as a human.
So I love the connections thatI can make with my athletes
athletes of all walks of life,and I just love that, with
different goals, different walksof life, having the opportunity
to connect with them and listento them and find out what their
goals are, and so with everyathlete that I've had, I'm just

(44:09):
like, I love them and I love myjob because we have a connection
.
And then because I have so muchexperience in so many different
parts of my life you know, frombeing a college student to being
, you know, to working and beinga mother and being a single mom
and being a senior and being agrandma and having kids and,

(44:30):
grant, it's just, I have a richexperience of life and then a
long, a long period of time youknow, 45 years that I've been
racing and so I think there'sit's been really fun because I
can connect across so manydifferent levels and find out
what do people need.
You know what.
What kind of inspiration dothey want?
What kind of positivity can Ifeed them and connect to them in

(44:53):
addition to you know just themiles and minutes and the and
some and the racing.
So that's my favorite part ofmy job is finding the connection
where someone's like, wow, likethey, they feel like I've made
a difference in their life andI've made a difference in their
training.
I've made a difference in theirrace and that's made a
difference in their training.

(45:14):
I've made a difference in theirrace and that's my whole intent
and that's my whole purpose.
I wouldn't do it for any otherreason.

Claire Fudge (45:20):
And I guess with I know you mentioned TriDot there
.
I guess with you know you'reable to be that human being and
be human with you know everyathlete you know telling that
story.
Then what do you still see,though, as the biggest mistakes
that athletes like continue tomake?
You must see a pattern.
Tell us what that might be apattern.

Kathleen McCartney (45:46):
Tell us what that might be.
I'd say one thing that comes tomind is that the training that
we're doing at Tridot isdifferent than people, than
traditional training.
I mean we are doing justperfectly optimized sessions are
prescribed for the athletes andI think it's been hard for some
athletes to trust that they'redoing enough.
They think that they still havethat mindset like more is

(46:08):
better.
And I and I try to tell myathletes like if you do what is
specifically prescribedespecially for you and you do it
in the way it's prescribed andyou're consistent, do all the
training you're prescribedexactly as it's prescribed.
I mean, we may tweak thingshere and there.
Obviously, you know people aregoing to have injuries, they're

(46:29):
going to have sickness, they'regoing to have family life come
up, but but this is the besttraining in the world, this is
it right here.
And you know, I think, that most, you know most of my athletes
do.
But it's like I've seen somestruggle with like oh, I don't
feel like that's a long enoughrun or a long enough bike where
I need to do more.
And I find that you know, justas Toridot suggests, if you do

(46:51):
the right training right, youwill have the most success and
that is and that is what I find.
And then beyond that, I wouldsay that sometimes athletes will
think about getting a coach,but then not get a coach until
like the last minute and youreally need to have like go

(47:12):
through the development phasefor your athletes and then the
race prep phase, and it's betterthan nothing.
But I'd say, if you're thinkingabout getting a coach, you know
, do it earlier in your trainingthan just kind of like waiting,
because there's so much we cando in the development phase to
to get them really ready.

Charlie Reading (47:31):
So you know, getting coached near the last
minute is okay but not ideal andI going back to what you were
saying about tridor, funnilyenough I was chatting with the
guys I swim with in, you know,in having a coffee afterwards
this morning saying exactly thesame thing, saying you know, one
of the things that I've takenfrom TriDot is I'm training less
hours, I'm getting injured lessand yet my performance is

(47:54):
getting better.
So I absolutely agree.
I think it's brilliant.
For that I wanted to sort oftransition, because you helped
Mike Levine, a stage four cancerwarrior, get back into
triathlon and inspire others.
What did that journey with Miketeach you about the power of
endurance, sport beyondcompetition?

Kathleen McCartney (48:14):
Oh, you know , that whole journey is probably
one of the most rewardingthings that I've ever done.
You know, outside of my family,obviously.
But the power of sport is real,it's tangible, it literally
extended Mike Levine's life,inspired thousands of other

(48:36):
people, allowed us to mentorpeople.
It was the most powerful thingthat I've ever done and it all
unfolded right before my eyes.
I was started out just as anopportunity to meet Mike, who
was dying.
He had stage four pancreaticcancer, been on a couch waiting
to die.
He was 69 years old and he haddone the.

(48:58):
He had done the October 82Ironman, after having been
inspired by my race and Julie'srace and went on to be a
phenomenal athlete.
And but then in his later yearshe got pancreatic cancer.
Well, bob Babbitt was puttingtogether a little party, kind of
like a going away party,goodbye party because he was

(49:18):
getting ready to die and hereally wanted to meet some
triathletes and have somesupport.
So I was supposed to go to thisparty at his house and meet him
, because he really wanted tomeet some triathletes and have
some support.
So I was supposed to go to thisparty at his house and meet him
because he really wanted tomeet me and I got really sick
and so I couldn't go to theparty.
But I called him up and saidI'm sorry, I'm so sick, but let
me meet you and your wife forcoffee.
And you know what, why don'tyou get off that couch and like,

(49:39):
let's go for a little bike ride?
No, and so he was so excitedthat he actually got off his
couch.
He went and bought a new bikeand he and his wife show up at
coffee at Panikin in Lucadia,and I was just so delighted to

(50:02):
meet him and we went out on abike ride and he hadn't done
anything.
We went on a bike ride.
He rode for almost an hour andwe had to stop every five
minutes or so and it was themost amazing thing I'd ever seen
.
Now, this guy had been a, youknow, had been a good athlete,
but it had been years.
But the power of sport givesyou that purpose, that hope and

(50:24):
that community, and that'sultimately what I was able to
provide for Mike Levine.
And after that bike ride we hadour coffee and I said, hey,
mike, you know, would you liketo do that again?
And he's like, absolutely.
And I said, well, I'm doing myannual like I'm training for
Ironman this year 2017.

(50:44):
I start off my training everyyear by I'm training for Ironman
this year 2017.
I start off my training everyyear by doing something I call
Ironman in minutes, where I swim2.4 minutes, I ride 112 minutes
and I walk 26 minutes.
So I think you could do that.
How would you like to do that?
And he's like that sounds great.
So we had my little event.

(51:05):
We used to be about me kickingoff training.
Julie and I would do that, youknow, every year together.
It was just something fun Icreated.
But this year it became aboutothers.
It became about Mike and Iended up making a little plaque
ahead of time with my finishermedal from 1982.
And I made a plaque and I'm likethis is I'm going to give him

(51:26):
an anything is possible awardfor his inspiration.
So we do the little event.
We have like six people, we goout to lunch afterwards and I
present him with this awardanything is possible award which
was my finisher medal.
And from that day on I got himto start training with me and

(51:46):
just little baby steps and afterfour months we were swimming,
biking, running, he was gettingoff the couch, he was coming
back to life through sport andhe said, kath, I think I'd like
to do Ironman again.
He goes and you breathed thelife back into me.

(52:08):
And so when someone tells like,how could you hear those words
and not feel like that's themost incredible gift that anyone
could ever give you to knowthat you've made a difference in
someone's life.
So we were on this journey.
Suddenly he was not sleepingall day and staying in bed and

(52:28):
waiting to die.
He was living and he actuallyearned a Ironman, gave him an
ambassador spot for Ironman thatyear and it was the most
exciting thing that I've everdone in my life, like surprising
him with his entry, goingthrough this beautiful journey
with him.
And, yeah, so it gave him hope,it gave him purpose, it gave

(52:53):
him a reason to get off his bedand it gave him a community that
cared and supported him.
So that's the real power.

Charlie Reading (53:01):
It is incredible, isn't it?
We had one of the Ironmanannouncers, paul Kay, on the
podcast recently, and thosestories are just incredible,
aren't they?
It is a sport that brings thosestories out in a way that most
sports can't, because it isabout doing tough things, isn't
it?
And I remember Bob Babbitt justsaying, when he crossed that

(53:22):
finish line, he was never, evergoing to be the same person
again.
What is it you think thatIronman really captures?
Because it's not quite like.
Ultra running is really tough,but I'm not quite sure it has
that same thing.
There's lots of things that arereally tough, but I'm not sure
that they quite do it in the waythat Iron man seems to, somehow

(53:44):
.
What is it about it that youthink brings in these incredible
stories?

Kathleen McCartney (53:51):
I'd say, going back to my decision to be
sitting on a seawall, and it wasjust audacious for me to think
I could even do an Iron man, butI think that decision was as
transformative as me, likecrossing the finish line, just
deciding that that's who you'regoing to be now.

(54:11):
You're going to be a personthat goes out to do amazing
things and possible things withthis other community that you're
getting energy and inspirationfrom.
And I think, also because itinvolves the three disciplines,
and they're disciplines that arefamiliar to us swimming,
bicycling, running, walking.
These are things that most ofus worldwide are exposed to, so

(54:37):
I think it gives us that feelinglike wow, these are things that
I'm kind of familiar with andcomfortable with, and maybe I
can put them all togetherbecause it's something that's we
grew up riding bikes.
We grew up many of us you knowswimming or playing in the pool
or going in the ocean, and youknow running walking, so I think

(54:59):
that's that's part of it.

Charlie Reading (55:03):
I think.
I think you're right and, andalso as as listening to myself
ask the question and listeningto you talk about it, there is
also the, the, the, the nameiron man, the term iron man is
actually really powerful, isn'tit?
It's like you are an ultrarunner.
Well, am I?
You know?
Like it's not.
It's never going to work, is it?
It's not, it's not.

(55:23):
It's like a yeah, you become adifferent person once you're an
iron man.
I think it's.
It's absolutely fascinating and, from a business point of view,
I mean, it's marketing genius,isn't it?
It's this absolutely incredible.
So, kathy, we always ask everyguest on the podcast for books
that have helped them on theirjourney, or books they find

(55:45):
themselves recommending to thepeople they coach or their
friends.
So what books really stand outfor you on on your journey?

Kathleen McCartney (55:53):
well, I'm going to go way back into the
pioneering because I think it'ssuch an important part of our
sport history and I don't wantthat to be lost, like for all
the new people that are cominginto the sport or people that
just took it up, people that youknow, weren't, you know, racing
when I was in my 20s as acollege student?
You know, you know, 45 yearsago.

(56:14):
So I just, I think you knowIron War by Matt Fitzgerald,
100%, like you've just got toread that book, you will learn
so much about the, the endurance, motivation, inspiration,
getting in the heads of two ofthe greatest competitors in our
sport, to the greatest rivals,and there's so much to be

(56:37):
learned from from reading thatbook.
And it's, I think, if you'retruly going to be, you know, an
Iron man and a Traglet, you haveto really know that story and
feel that story.
And then, secondly, I would sayanother book from back in the
day, from back in 1987, writtenby Mike Plant, my dear, dear,
dear friend, iron Will.

(56:59):
Mike Plant is one of the mostincredible journalists,
photographers.
Well, he, he has passed awayand and I just want to honor him
by sharing, you know, this bookthat he wrote which talks about
, you know, the early day oftriathlon and gets into the

(57:22):
heads and minds of the earlycompetitors and describes,
describes the Ironman WorldChampionship in such a beautiful
way.
And, yeah, we lost a greatperson in losing Mike Plant, but
he does have some other booksout there and that's another
great one to just really get afeeling for pioneering in our

(57:42):
sport, which basically laid thefoundation for everything that
has come, the gloriousnessthat's come, and who knew back
in the day that it was going tobe a multi-billion dollar
industry I like we could nothave, and an Olympic sport we
could never have fathomed thatthat's brilliant.

Charlie Reading (58:02):
No, I agree, and I love Iron War just like an
incredible book.
And I'm really pleased you saidit actually because I know
you're really good friends withMark Allen and Mark when we had
him on the podcast.
He doesn't actually like thebook Iron War because it doesn't
quite tell the story as heremembers it or as Dave
remembers it.
And yet I still think it's suchan important book because it

(58:23):
tells us and like I get that forthem.
Some of the details aren'tquite right, but the overriding
story is so powerful and MattFitzgerald, who we've always had
on the podcast, just does awonderful job of telling that
story.
So I'm really pleased that yousaid that book Iron Will.
I've never read that, so that'simmediately going straight onto

(58:43):
my brilliant.
Yeah, I don't know, I and Will,I've never read that, so that's
immediately going straight ontomy brilliant.
Yeah, I don't know, I don'tknow how I've missed that, but I
have.
I do remember seeing it, butI've never read it, so that's
going straight onto the readinglist.
I am very grateful for thatrecommendation.
Then the last thing that we dois we get the previous guest to
ask the next guest a questionwithout knowing who that
question is going to be, and thelast guest was Simon Dent, who

(59:05):
is an ultra runner and highlysuccessful entrepreneur.
And I think, claire, you've gotSimon's question, haven't you?

Claire Fudge (59:11):
Yes.
So what's the one fitness orlifestyle habit you wish you'd
started earlier in life, and why?

Kathleen McCartney (59:22):
Oh, that's kind of an easy question.
When I was in the, I was never.
I didn't grow up doingorganized sports.
I grew up in a time where Iwatched my brothers, you know,
play baseball and football andthen I would make them cakes
after they won right.
But I was very athletic, youknow, climbing trees, playing,
going to the beach, but neverdid organized sports.

(59:43):
But I did have a competitivenature always and didn't realize
how strong it was till manyyears later.
But when I was in the thirdgrade I just decided that I
wanted to try out for the swimteam with my best friend and she
was a year older than me and Iwas so excited I just thought,
oh my gosh, I could be likeplaying sports, it's amazing.

(01:00:04):
So I go to the tryouts and Ididn so excited I just thought,
oh my gosh, I could be likeplaying a sport, it's amazing.
So I go to the tryouts and Ididn't really.
I knew how to play in a pool,but I didn't know how to do lap
swimming and so I didn't knowthat you're supposed to exhale
when your face is in the water.
So I'm like holding my breathand struggling.
But I was so excited and it wasjust like oh no, mccartney, like
you're out, you know.
So I was like, oh my God, it'slike how did I not make a swim

(01:00:26):
team?
Like I didn't even get a chance.
I think it was like 25 yardsand you know that I stunk.
But wow, like my, I'm a, Istill.
You know, I'm all constantlyworking on my swim and I always
had to play catch up because Ididn't have a swimming
background.
No-transcript.

Charlie Reading (01:01:01):
I think that's brilliant because the number of
times that we have had you know,people on this podcast we've
had done over 150 episodes andthe physical point of view
building the engine, but thediscipline of following a
training plan, getting up early,I think there's just, it's just

(01:01:31):
such a brilliant thing.
So I also wish I had done thatat an earlier age, for sure.
I think I think it's fantastic.
Um, kathleen, it has beenabsolutely brilliant.
Chas, and I loved hearing thestories.
I love hearing about what itwas like and what that iconic
moment was like for you and thatkind of build up to it and
everything else and what you'vedone for the sport since.

(01:01:53):
I think you know it wasabsolutely amazing to chat to
you and some of the other TriDotlegends in Kona and I think
it's fantastic that you're stillembracing the sport and giving
back to the sport and and justloving it.
So, um, and I couldn't agreewith you more in in the, in the
sense of that community is sucha brilliant, amazing community.

(01:02:15):
So, but, thank you, thank youfor coming on the podcast.
It's been an absolute privilegeand a pleasure and, yeah, keep
up the amazing work thank you,charlie, thank you very much,
claire.
And I'll see you again soon well, I'm sure you agree that was an
amazing conversation with atrue legend of the sport,
kathleen mccartney.
If you want to find out more,she's kath mccartney at

(01:02:38):
instagram and in the show noteswe'll also put her tridot
coaching link so that you cantrack her down if you would like
to be coached by Kathleen, orjust follow her on her socials.
But, claire, what did you makeof that interview with the
legend that is KathleenMcCartney?

Claire Fudge (01:02:55):
Well, I was just about to say legend before you
said it.
Yeah, like amazing.
I think the video of Julie andKathleen was actually one of the
first things that I watchedbefore I did my first Ironman,
and so for me, to you know, usto have this conversation today
was just amazing.
And she is so inspiring and Ithink the thing that really sort

(01:03:20):
of came across to me is thisyou know, in the 1980s, as she
was saying, there were like notvery many females in ironman
sport, in that kind of sport,and she, her mindset just from
the outset was, you know, justget on and do it.
You know, um, and that's whatreally came across for me is,
just expect the unexpected, justpick yourself up, figure it out

(01:03:40):
, get on with it.
Um, and even to this day now,when she's talking to you know,
her, her athletes, that it's.
You know.
She's talking about empowerment, having purpose.

Charlie Reading (01:03:51):
So for me, it was, it was really inspirational
to hear her story, but also howthat has, how Ironman has
provided her with differentthings at different times but
coming back to it has continuedto offer very different things
and really powerful sort ofpivots and moments in her life.

(01:04:14):
I think, yeah, I thought shewas absolutely brilliant.
I think I completely agree withthe mindset piece and you know
that whole.
I mean she obviously went intothat first Ironman thinking she
had food poisoning, even thoughlater on she knew it wasn't food
poisoning, but having that, Isay essentially the same
symptoms of that by going well,all I can do is control the

(01:04:35):
controllables and and focus onon just getting on and doing
what I can do and not giving up.
And I thought that was, Ithought that was brilliant and I
think the the purpose, hope andcommunity piece that she talked
about in terms of you know thatreally is.
I don't think I've ever heardit verbalized quite that way
purpose, hope and community.
Like I love the hope bit.

(01:04:56):
I like I kind of I would haveguessed I would have probably
said community and purpose, buthope was yeah, what, what do you
make of that?

Claire Fudge (01:05:06):
yeah, I, I, um, I think community is really
interesting, because I thinkthere's several parts to an
endurance community, isn't there?
There's a community at races,which is very different but
supported to a certain degree,um, in girls, sport, um, but
either that community that youhave with you know your training
partners, the groups you go outwith, I think that's there's a

(01:05:27):
really strong part there.
Um, hope is is reallyinteresting because I picked up
on that as well and I think it'sfor me.
It's about people havingsomething that's such an a huge
challenge, a point in their lifewhen maybe they don't think
they can overcome anything.
So that's kind of what I gotfrom it is that literally, you

(01:05:49):
know that if they could do that,yes, it's giving them purpose,
but it's giving them hope thatyou know they can do whatever
comes up against them.

Charlie Reading (01:06:00):
So, yeah, that's what I suppose I was just
thinking about that and, yeah,I hadn't really thought about it
.
But if we think about it inbusiness, you'd say it's like
having a moonshot, isn't it?
It's like a moonshot is asingle point of focus.
It's a bigger, it's a goalthat's so big that you don't
know how you're going to do it,but you know why you want to do
it and and I think that hope iskind of like well, actually, I'm

(01:06:25):
yeah, it's a look, it's a.
It is something to make abeeline for the future, isn't it
?
And I think it makes it muchmore meaningful.
So, but then, yeah, it'sdifficult to distinguish between
what's hope and what's purpose,isn't it?
Because that kind of yeah, itreally got me thinking.
Actually, I also loved that.
When she said the Ironman helpsyou do hard things, I thought,

(01:06:47):
yeah, that's definitely.
You know you're practicing yourresilience in one area.
Even if you're creating theresilience, you know the need
for resilience yourself, andthen that helps provide you with
resilience in other areas whereyou probably wouldn't choose to
need it.

Claire Fudge (01:07:04):
I think actually that comes back to what she was
talking about.
You know, balancing family lifeand getting back into training.
You know the resilience in somany different areas of your
life.
But again it comes back toroutine and consistency you know
she was talking about.
Well, you get up earlier, youknow, but you have all that
routine and consistency thatyou've built the whole of your

(01:07:25):
life without a family and thenyou just have to re.
You know, recreate that, and Iguess you know the same is true
of of business as well.
You know, I hear many businesspeople say that they don't have
time to do any exercise.
But actually it's about how doyou, how do you do something on
a regular basis and create thatroutine around your working day.

Charlie Reading (01:07:46):
Do you see the same with nutrition?
Do you see like is?
Because I see it in businesscoaching.
I don't have time for businesscoaching, I'm too busy.
Well, you're not going to fixthe time problem if you don't go
for the coaching to work outhow you improve the way that you
work.
Is that also a complaint withpeople in the nutrition world?

Claire Fudge (01:08:07):
Yeah, absolutely, I don't have time to think about
it, and that's essentially whyoften I find people go for a
quick fix, a golden bullet,because I don't have time.
And actually that also comesback to consistency.
It's the small things that youdo consistently that actually
have the biggest impact, youknow.

Charlie Reading (01:08:28):
And that also comes back into routine, routine
consistency, and actuallyessentially it saves you time
once you've got it in, onceyou've got it in routine, but
absolutely you're absolutely,you're absolutely right, it's
the small things you do oftenthat make the biggest difference
, not the big things you dooccasionally, and whether that's
in your business, whetherthat's in your health and
nutrition or whether that's inyour training, it's that

(01:08:50):
consistency and having the planand and I also think that having
that consistency I know for meand I and I think I might be
saying that kathleen said thisit's having that plan and that
consistency and that structurejust seems to put you in a
better mindset as well, as, youknow, going through the day

(01:09:12):
knowing you've done the hardthing at the start of it by, you
know, doing the exercise.
So, yeah, really powerful.
But I thought it was justwonderful to chat to her about
that, about that probably like,if you think about it, iron war
and that 1982 moment with julieI mean, and iron war wouldn't
have happened if it hadn't beenfor the julie moss and kathleen

(01:09:32):
mccartney moment.
So, like it is, it was justbrilliant to hear, hear that
story and and to understand whatit was, what it was like for
her.
So, yeah, really really amazingto chat to her and a lot, of, a
lot of really interestinginsights that she, you know that
we, that she was able toprovide.
So, yeah, another amazinginterview for everyone else at

(01:09:53):
home.
Keep on training, thank you.