How Richard Wright is Surviving Cancer with Endurance and Purpose

Episode Transcript
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Richard Wright (00:06):
Today, you have a 100% survival rate of every
single thing that you eversurvived, and what on earth
would make you think that thisnext challenge, this thing that
is facing you, is going to besomething you can't get to the
other side of?

Charlie Reading (00:22):
What does it take to not only survive but
thrive against the impossibleodds?
Well, imagine being diagnosedwith terminal brain cancer, not
once, but four times.
Now imagine taking on theworld's toughest endurance races
in the middle of that battle.
That's exactly what today'sguest, richard Wright, has done.

(00:42):
Richard is more than anendurance athlete.
He's a radical optimist,best-selling author of the book
the Power of Purpose, and a manwho refuses to be defined by his
diagnosis.
In this conversation, hereveals the mindset shifts that
separate survivors from victims,the power of endurance, sport
in both life and business, andthe deeply personal story behind

(01:07):
his I am tattoo.
This episode will change how yousee adversity.
Whether you're an athlete, anentrepreneur or someone fighting
your own battles, richard'swisdom will leave you with
practical strategies to redefineresilience, rediscover purpose
and push your own limits.
So let's dive in with what isan unbelievable and

(01:32):
inspirational episode with theamazing Richard Wright.
So, richard, welcome to theBusiness of Endurance podcast.
Really looking forward tohaving this conversation with

(01:53):
you, because I know there isgoing to be like inspiration,
wisdom, all sorts that we'regoing to get into on this
discussion.
But I really like to.
I like to start with kind ofnormally.
I like to start with kind ofmore of a linear, tell me your
story of what it was likegrowing up.
But for you, I want to.
I want to dive into onequestion really first off, and

(02:13):
that is, um, you know, completecompeting in multiple Ironmans
while you're battling um like areally aggressive cancer, um,
it's just like extraordinary.
And you know, claire and I bothrace Ironman.
We understand what it's allabout, but most people, just
people, struggle to trainthrough an Ironman when they're

(02:35):
fit and healthy, um, let alonesomebody you know training for
one through like reallyaggressive treatment and um an
illness.
So what drove you to keepracing, even when your body was
under attack?

Sure.
So firstly, charlie, thank youso much for having me.
What an absolute privilege itis for me.
Thank you very, very much, andI actually wish you had started
with the linear tennis storywhere it came from, because it's
all part and parcel of the samething and it's something I'm
probably going to come back to acouple of times, and that is
and you'll know this, anychasing, any finish line, um,

(03:11):
and for both of you, chasing anironman finish line, and all the
finish lines that you had tochase to get to that one, um,
it's all about why you're doingit.
It's your reason for wanting todo this thing, um, and it's
never actually about the finishline.
We think it's about the finishline, but it's not.
It's actually about how we'regoing to feel when we cross the
finish line, it's what it'sgoing to do for us.
It's that why that purpose andpurpose.

(03:35):
Funnily enough, I wrote a bookcalled the Power of Purpose.
Throughout the journey and whenI wrote that first book, I
still used to think that thepurpose was the finish line.
The purpose was finishing anIronman or something like that,
or whatever goal it is that youare aspiring to.
And what I realized in researchfor the second book, Path to
Purpose, I spoke to some reallyamazingly smart people who are

(03:56):
experts on purpose or haveaccomplished phenomenal things
through a purpose is that thosethings are just goals, they're
just targets, and purpose reallyis a collection of all the
little things that you do in aday that make you feel happy,
feel excited and give you asense of meaning.
And the more of those thingsyou do and the more you
recognize them and the more theyaccumulate, the more likely you

(04:18):
are to accomplish purpose inchasing that goal.
And so for me, in a nutshell,before I get to the story, your
childhood story, which is quiteimportant for me, it was a case
of if I can do thisextraordinarily tough thing, if
I can do this thing thateverybody is telling me is
impossible, this thing that issupposedly going to make me

(04:40):
weaker and give cancer an upperhand.
If I can do this thing, I canbeat cancer again.
If I can do this thing, I canbeat cancer again.
If I can do this thing, I canprove to my two little girls,
who are my reason and my why,that their dad is going to be
okay and that fire is anincredibly powerful thing.
And that's what gets you outthe front door.
And we all know that thehardest step of any session is

(05:04):
the first step out of the frontdoor.
And once you get that right andit was choosing not to be a
victim sitting on a couch, beinga victim of cancer and to try
and take my future into my ownhands so that really is that.
It's the why and, as you know,people often say that you know,
motivation is really important.
If you're not really motivated,you're not going to get your
goal, you're not going to getyour finish line, whatever, and

(05:26):
specifically with endurancesport and that's actually
rubbish.
Motivation really comes fromdiscipline, and discipline is a
lot more important thanmotivation, whilst motivation
something might inspire you ormotivate you to start or to aim
at something that's going towane.
It's going to disappear in avery short space of time.
But something that's going towane, it's going to disappear in
a very short space of time.
But when you're putting astreak together, when you're

(05:47):
hitting all the sessions thatyour coach is giving you, when
you're doing all the things, thehard things, and you and you're
recording them, all thatmotivates you to do more.
So so for me it was.
It was a case of having tochange my thinking and become an
endurance athlete again, ratherthan my entire life being
cancer and surviving cancer.

(06:07):
So that, in a nutshell, ispretty much it and I suppose
that kind of makes me.

I mean, we hear a lot about the importance of
purpose and why on the podcast,and I think I mean it.
It's it's very, you know,obviously simon sinek starts, we
start with why, which is kindof why I wanted to start here,
really, because I thought that'swhere you might go, um, and it
is unbelievably powerful, um,how, um, and I think we we're

(06:34):
going to dive into that subjectmore and more as the podcast
goes on.
But but it also makes me thinkhow did you apply this approach
to dealing with the cancer?
You know what?
What did you?
What did you um learn fromendurance sport that helped you
fight the cancer?

um, I love that question.
So, so that's one of the giftsof cancer and it's strange to
say gifts of cancer.
I guess it's easy for me, youknow, um, I'm in remission at
the moment for about a year anda half now, and I guess it's
easier for me to talk about thegifts now than when you're in
the thick of it.
But cancer really does comewith gifts, and I actually

(07:14):
strongly believe not even justbelieve, I know that the reason
I'm still here is, to a very,very large part, the fact that
I've been an endurance athletesince I was at school, because
it's that it's hours and hoursand hours on a bike, and so much
of my brand, the MissionProject, is about cycling and

(07:39):
about that repetitive thing.
You're turning the cranks onyour, your bike and you can be
on exactly the same route, butyou'll never.
And turning the same movementon exactly the same route, same
time of the day, but you're notthe same person.
You can never have the sameride twice, you're not having
the same thoughts, it's neverthe same, um, but but all those

(08:01):
hours on a bike and running, andI've done all my training Well,
primarily my training has beenon my own Um, it's.
It's, I think, from from amental resilience, a hardcore um
belief in your ability to getto where you need to get to.
Uh, that's massive.
So, so endurance, every singlething that we do.

(08:22):
You, starting from a zero, andyou're building.
You're building a run, you'rebuilding a cycle, you're
building a race.
You start and at the beginningyou think, wow, I've got a 21K
run today and I'm killing me toone.
I'm not feeling less thanfantastic, I'm not in showroom
condition, I wonder if I'm goingto get to 21.
And then you start slowlybuilding and then play those

(08:45):
mind games.
I'm now at you know three and ahalf k's.
So that is, you know half ofseven, which is a third of 21,
and then I'm at halfway.
Those are the games we playbecause we're building and a lot
of that carried through to um.
I just need to focus on thisnext thing, on this part of
whatever this exercise is um,this treatment today that forms
part of um.
You know how many treatments 35treatments.
It's so that number one um andnumber two.

(09:07):
I think one of the biggest giftsis, as an endurance athlete,
you, you, you, your body is yourbest friend um and has to be.
You make friends with it andyou, you know intimately when
something is wrong.
You know what you, how far youcan push, how far you can't push
.
Uh, you know where the linesare, you know what your heart
rate feels like, you know whatyour resting heart rate should

(09:28):
feel like and all of that stuffcomes through into a physical
battle with any kind of illnessor any kind of disease.
So I was really lucky to beaccepted, um, in the first
diagnosis, uh, john hopkinsstudy on the the effects of
vigorous exercise on cancer.
But vigorous exercise, and mostof us on the program, in fact

(09:49):
almost all of us, I think werepeople who were endurance
athletes before cancer camealong and it was fascinating.
So this you're going to love.
So you know when you're pushingreally hard and you know
training is all about how faryou can push yourself before you
have to recover so that you cando the next session.
And you gradually build up andyou can't break down too much
and you've got to go through thephases.

(10:10):
And then what happens is youhit that wonderful taper phase
before a major race and that'sthe worst time because your body
starts to sweat up.
You maintain water, you retainwater, you're eating more than
you feel like you should becauseyou can't exercise it away.
Um, our bodies, when we trainand we're going through rigorous
exercise, um are in defensemode, so so they literally are

(10:32):
in the biggest.
Everything that you're doing,they're trying to repair as fast
as possible and and when you'rein in defense mode, your hair
grows faster, your nails arethick and healthier, your skin
is better, everything's better,because your body is working so
hard to repair what you aredamaging.
Right.
And the minute you go into a Idon't know, I'm preaching to the
converted here, you know allthis stuff but you go into a
taper, your body says, oh okay,so now we don't need to defend

(10:54):
ourselves so much, we don't haveto fight these battles of all
these things that you werehurting um, and immediately you
become a little bit run down andyou are now, because, because
you're in this state,susceptible to any kind of
illness.
And that same theory was putinto practice from a cancer
point of view.
So how can we put your bodyinto fight mode?
It has to be vigorous exercise,we have to get your heart rate

(11:17):
up as high as possible withoutdamaging your ability to fight
the cancer cells.
And if your body is that goodat being able to repair itself
through the exercise, logicdictates that it should also be
better at being able to fightalien cells like cancer cells,
and it turns out that that is100% true.
And so that was a fascinatingexercise of recording everything

(11:40):
, sending it all through,sending the exercise files,
through going in for testingregularly, making sure I was
monitoring heart rate, um.
So back to the originalquestion, I've absolutely no
doubt that the fact that I'vealways been an endurance athlete
, um is a very, very bigcontributor um to to where I am
right now and surviving cancer,both from the mental side and

(12:01):
also from the physical side.

Claire Fudge (12:02):
Um, huge, huge I think it's it's hear that you
know you talk about that idea oftraining and those long hours
that you spend on the bike andbuilding it up and actually how
you saw that you know first partof your cancer treatment
actually doing the same thing inthat sort of way.
And I'm also really interestedto hear about the study as well

(12:23):
that you've just been talkingabout, and I'm also really
interested to hear about thestudy as well that you've just
been talking about.
So I like to have a lot ofevidence behind what I'm
speaking about and so that thattalks to me.
So I'd be interested to read abit more about it.
Maybe you can, you can sharethat link with us afterwards to
have a have a read.

So there's lots out there.
Actually, australia has the onethat's probably the best known
at the moment.
I'll try and find that link foryou.
But there's a lot of that.
I mean, science is putting yourbody in a state and the
unfortunate part is somebodywill approach me and say my
sister, my brother, my uncle orsomebody has just been diagnosed
with cancer and you know whatis the advice, what worked for

(12:58):
you?
And that's really hard becauseeach one of us have an
individual journey and we knowthat from a racing training
point of view, none of us, youknow it's never the same for us.
Uh, for you know, for everyone,um, and how we respond to
various training, various umdiets, nutrition we all respond
differently and it's the samething with cancer.
But what I'd really like to sayis get this person off the

(13:19):
couch and get them, whether it'swalking vigorously, whether
it's doing something that getsheart rate up.
But the problem is, if you'renot used to doing it already, if
your body isn't accustomed andattuned to doing it, to now
become an endurance athletewhile you're fighting cancer for
the first time is impossible.
It literally is impossible.
But that movement and gettingout and getting out of your head
is really the most importantand we've all been through it.

(13:43):
So I think that's the thing isthat, um, a lot of people after
I speak will come up to me andsay, richard, I listened to you
and I sat there thinking how,how ridiculous are my um
challenges and my obstacles, howhow, yeah, I feel silly, I feel
stupid.
Um, when I listen to you andeverything you've been through,
and I always stop um each.

(14:04):
You know every person who saysthat, and I say, actually, I
need you to stop doing that,because there are two things.
Number one there's no hierarchyof stuff that we go through in
our lives.
There's no.
There's no hierarchy of oh,okay, I've got stage four brain
cancer, I'm counting down mydays, but you know what?
I've got two arms, so I shouldactually be grateful for the
fact that I've got two arms.
Isn't that hierarchy?

(14:24):
And every single thing thatyou're going through, or any of
us go through, is relevant to usand relative to us, and so my
job is to try and help people todeal with the stuff that they
are going through in a way thathelps you to be able to get
forward to where you want to getthrough, and, as athletes.

(14:46):
We all resonate with beinginjured or being ill or
something that prevents us fromgetting out there.
And you know, the hardest partis how we become victims in our
own head and immediately andI've coached athletes often in
my life they'll get someonewho's been on the couch for a
week and say, oh, my fitness isgone and I'm never going to get
back.
It was all wasted and I've got arace coming back, and for me
it's so easy as it is foranybody on the outside to say,
but hold on, this race isactually going to be the best

(15:07):
thing for your body and you'reprobably going to come faster
than before and you're probablytraining on the cusp anyway and
you've lost nothing.
But when you're in it, youcan't see that it's this, you've
got this, but no, no, you knowI'm not doing what I should be

(15:30):
doing, um, and so how can I helppeople to change their thinking
or to think a littledifferently?
Uh, enriching people's thinking, um, but yeah, there's lots of
evidence and there's lots ofscience that backs up, um, your
body being in a fight in in afight space, and how good it is
at anything, overcoming anything, how we keep it there, um, and
and where that line is, becausethe minute you go on the other
side obviously it's thendetrimental.

I think we're going to come back probably to
that, that resilience part,actually as well.
But I want to explore a littlebit about your um growing up and
and sport as well, because you,you talk now, um, I say you
talk of being an enduranceathlete, you are an endurance
athlete and that mindset.
But but where did that?
Where did that come from, likeas as a as an athlete?
I believe you did sports, umand swimming.

So tell us a little bit about, kind of where
your kind of love of sport camefrom and how that developed into
becoming an endurance athletegrowing up, I used to think that
I, um, I'd been adopted because, um, nobody in my family was
sporty at all um and variouschallenges and I was the only
one who was really interested insport.
And it was a bit of a fight.

(16:30):
We were in a very conservative,very religious home and, as an
example, I was a great tennisplayer, a really good tennis
player, and I was ranked when Iwas young in South Africa
something I was really good atand I wanted to play club tennis
and the matches were on Sundaysand I wasn't allowed to play
matches on a Sunday because, youknow, we don't play sport on a
Sunday.
It was like that.

(16:50):
It felt like this real fight.
And then I was blessed withhorrible eyesight.
So as a kid I had these glassesthat looked like the bottom of
a Coca-Cola bottle.
They were that thick.
I used to say to people youknow how good my eyes have to be
to see through the lenses thisthick, but it was like that.
And then I had braces as a kidand I had this thick, wavy hair.

(17:12):
People think I'm bald.
No, I just shave that stuff offbecause it's ugly, um, and I
had these bigger thighs thannormal, so pants were always
tight on me and I got teased alot and I was this nerdy kid and
I looked like a nerdy kid andum, and so I grew up with this
real feeling of I'm not goodenough, I'm not worthy, um, and
some real childhood strugglesand childhood traumas.

(17:34):
We all have them, and and themessaging to myself was you're
not really good enough, you'renot sporty.
I had to pick up everythinglate because it wasn't really
encouraged when I was young, um,so it was always playing catch
up and not feeling good enough.
But the part that I didn'trealize was having these big,
powerful quads was going to helpme to do a 445, 180k Ironman

(17:57):
bike ride.
You know, but you don't thinkof that back then when you're a
kid, right.
And so I got into triathlon andI immediately excelled.
I'm not, I'm not the bestswimmer.
I'm, I'm good in the water, butI'm not I was never good.
I actually had to work reallyhard at the swimming out of all
of them.
I'm not the best cyclist andI'm not the best runner, but

(18:17):
somehow when I put them together, um, I was good, um, so, even
racing age group iron man andI'll get to that in a second um,
I'll be sort of top three, topfour in my age group, with the
swim, also the cycle, maybe thecycle a little bit further back,
and then the run, but put themall together and I was on top of
the podium, um, and and andpart of.

(18:39):
So I actually only discoverediron man.
Um, funny enough, I was inEngland in 1999 for the British
Olympic trials and I did therace, um, and I was in good neck
and I jumped into the Thamesriver and my polar heart rate
monitor jumped off my my wristinto the Thames.
I still haven't found it.
Um, and so that that's how myrace started and I had a

(19:03):
horrible bike leg and I finishedthat race and I thought you
know, I'm actually done withtriathlon for a while, I just
don't want to do it anymore.
And I came back and I hung upmy bike and for six years I
didn't cycle at all.
I carried on running a littlebit and I was a swimming coach
at a swim school and I swamthree times a week with an
endurance squad.
That's all I did.

(19:23):
And I was coaching some athletesfor Ironman and it was November
that year, 2006.
And I sat down and I looked atwhat I was giving them and I
thought you know, I really missbeing out on a bike and I'm sure
I can.
Actually, you know, I've got abit of a gap coming up December,
january holidays, I'll havesome time.
Why don't I just start riding alittle bit?

(19:46):
And they roped me into enteringwhat was South African long
course champs at the end ofJanuary the following year.
So I had literally five, sixweeks to train for it, did a bit
of training and I came 23rdoverall or something, and it was
, oh my goodness, I actuallyremember being good at this and
I've missed it.
And then that convinced me toenter Ironman, which was in

(20:07):
March, end of March.
So I literally had two monthsto train and I finished that one
51st overall with a 10-20.
So it was very little trainingfrom the beginning of December.
And what that did for me is I'mnot this nerd, I'm not this kid
who isn't good enough, this kidwho's been teased, and this is
something I'm actually this nerd.
I'm not this kid who isn't goodenough, this kid who's been
teased, and this is somethingI'm actually really, really good

(20:28):
at.
And when I do this thing again,this is our why when I do this
thing, it makes me feelempowered, it makes me feel
better about myself, it makes mefeel like I'm worthy, that I'm
good at something like reallygood at something physical, and
so that's what that did for me.
And then the year after that, I, in fact I moved down to Port
Elizabeth in um, south Africa,which is where um Ironman South

(20:51):
Africa is held, and um, becausewe just loved it there, I wanted
to get out of Johannesburg andI needed a new direction in my
life and things were kind offalling apart in my life a
little bit and um and Ironmanbecame the thing that made me
feel like again, if I can dothis thing, everything else,
everything else is going to beokay.
Um.
I was never a pro athlete but asan amateur I finished um 16th

(21:14):
overall in the race.
There were about 30 40 prosthat year, so beating most of
the pro field.
I was the first amateur athletehome won the age group
qualified for Kona.
Um, the first of a couple oftimes to do that, and it was
really.
This is my thing.
This is something that I'mreally good at, and what I'm
best at is not the physicalstuff.
Yes, I'm a proficient swimmer,cyclist and runner.

(21:34):
I can do, I'm good, but I'm notbrilliant.
But the thing I'm really goodat is this not racing against
other people, racing againstmyself, about pacing myself,
about building a race I'm reallygood at that.
I'm good at holding a pace.
I'm good at suffering and again, that links back to the cancer.
I'm really good at sufferingthrough stuff to get to where I

(21:56):
want to get to, if it meansenough to me.
And so my job changed and I wasunable to really race or train
for a number of years.
Um and uh, before the year.
Um, in fact, that's how I foundout that I had cancer.
So the end of 2015 and I wastrying to come back, I wanted to

(22:17):
just enter 2016 it was thebeginning of 10th of April that
year, I think it was and Iwanted to try and see if I could
be competitive again andliterally towards the end of
2015, I would go for an eight orten kilometer run and come back
and I was like that was it fora week.
I was, I was just smashed.
I was unable to do anything andI recognized the symptoms

(22:38):
because I'd been diagnosed allthe way back in 2005 with a tiny
little tumor on my pituitarygland called a prolactinoma
secreting prolactin.
But it was non-cancerous, itwas benign and it was responsive
to medication.
But the good thing is that atthat time, 2015, I recognized
the symptoms and, although theywere out of whack, I knew what

(22:58):
it was, went straight to theneurosurgeon, did the MRI and
that was the first time I heardthe words brain cancer and
Richard Wright in the samesentence.
But I'm sure you can relate whenyou're an endurance athlete,
you're an Ironman athlete,you're titanium, nothing
attached to you.
You somehow in fact goingthrough divorce in 2010, which
was a really tough time in mylife and financial ruin.

(23:21):
I cancelled everything I didn'tneed to have, and one of the
things I thought I didn't needto have was life insurance,
because who needs to have lifeinsurance when you titanium,
ironman athlete, right?

So it was, it was denial.

It was like there's no ways I can have this
thing and like anything and Ithink we as athletes are
particularly good at doing thisWhenever we have symptoms or
little twitches or somethingthat we're not sure what it is,
where do we go?
We go to dr google and we typein the symptoms into dr google.
What do we have?
What do we have?
You know, diagnose,self-diagnosis, um, and dr

(23:54):
google always tells us the worstthing.
In fact, dr google normallyleans closer and sort of
whispers, you've got death.
You know, it's always the worstcase scenario and in in this
case, pituitary cancer, Icouldn't even find it.
I had to go to medical searchengines.
It's so freely rare and there'sno treatment for it.
There are no trial groups,there's nothing.
In fact, if you've got this,you have got death.

(24:15):
And there was no ways that thiswas going to be in my life.
There's no ways it could be me.
So I continued to try and train,but it was useless.
I was unable to do much, but Iwas determined if I could just
get to the start line and finishthis thing.
In fact, I even signed up for acharity Ironman for the Kids
because I wanted to be able tofocus on something outside of
myself.
I wanted this to be about otherpeople.

(24:36):
I wanted a reason beyond myselfto get to a finish line because
, if I can do this thing andyeah, I finished the race.
It was the worst time I'd everdone, slowest time, I think
about 11, 20, um, but it didn'tmatter.
I crossed that finish line in aIronman for the kids shirt and
um, there's no way I've gotcancer.
Um, and I was booked in fivedays after the event for a

(25:00):
lumbar puncture.
I didn't want to have one beforethe race.
It's the only way to determinea brain cancer or at that time
anyway.
No dna sequencing, um, becauseof the blood brain barrier.
There's no blood test.
Um and um, yeah, that was.
It went in but I didn't eventell my parents I was going in
because I was so determined.
There's no ways I've gotthere's something wrong, sure,
but there's no ways that I havethis form of cancer.

(25:21):
Um and again, I think thatthat's that, that stubborn
resistance, resilience, tenacityof an endurance athlete.
But don't tell me I can't train.
Don't tell me I can't do this.
Don't tell me, uh, you know, um, I'll show you.
Uh, there's real stubbornstreak and um, yeah, the rest,
unfortunately, history.
They found out that they rushedresults through a lab and my

(25:43):
surgeon called in a favor from afriend.
He'd done his research, he'dnever seen that cancer before.
He couldn't find a neurosurgeonin South Africa who had, and he
consulted with some fellowsoverseas.
All said the same thing wehighly doubt that is this form
of cancer because it's so rareand he doesn't fit the
demographic.
And secondly, but if it does,hopefully you've got it early
and you need to operate as soonas possible.

(26:04):
So literally six days afternine man, I found myself on in
theater having a brain op, umand um, and and there it was,
and my entire world turnedupside down I mean, I can't, I
can't even imagine what that youknow, what that must, must feel
like.

Um, I think we're going to come back to many parts
actually of that story in asecond as well.
Um is there.
Is there a point, like prior toyour um, your diagnosis, was
there a point in your Ironmanjourney where you had some sort
of defining moment that reallyhelped to shape how you could

(26:42):
defy all odds, how you were ableto deal with what you didn't
know but what was coming comingnext?

almost every single race had one of those or
a number of those.
Um, and I almost don't want toput myself out there in this
category because I started ironman before that happened, but
still I have to.
We all know a lot of people whostart Ironman because they hit
that late 30s, 40s, midlifecrisis, find this thing and,

(27:10):
unfortunately, is that you,charlie.
But please tell me, the nextpart of the story is not you,
because a lot of them,unfortunately, they find Ironman
and then they find somebodywho's also racing and a very
good nick and very healthy andeverything who isn't their
significant other, and thensuddenly they're like thank you,

(27:32):
I'm very glad it didn't happento you and there's a lot of that
, so.
I got divorced.
It was third year of iron um,2004th year of iron man um, and
iron man, um, and iron man wasactually the thing, it was the
glue that held me togetherthroughout a divorce.
Um, it was the thing that mademe feel I was okay, um, and now

(27:52):
I'm gonna be really vulnerable.
So, um, I mean, it's easy tolook back now, but, um, I was
very unhappy in a marriagebefore.
I man, uh, first, I man, um,and I tried to to get my ex-wife
to go to marital counseling andwe went for a couple of
sessions and she was like, no,we're great.
And I was kind of no, we're not.

(28:13):
And I just feel that, you know,and I couldn't put my finger on
it, and I was seeing a lifecoach at that time from a career
point of view and really tryingto grow and move, and she was
happy where she was and we werejust two completely different
people who probably should never, who never really should, have
got married.
Um, lance Armstrong saidsomething, um, and and there's a

(28:34):
lot about Lance I don't like.
There's a lot about Lance thatI do like, um, and one of the
things he said, um, and he wastalking about his divorce.
He said um, many people saythat our you know our marriage
was a failure.
And he said I always say thatit actually wasn't.
We've got two amazing, three,three amazing children to show
for it.
Um, in fact, it was aspectacular success from that
point of view, um, and if ithadn't been for the marriage, I

(28:56):
wouldn't have my two girls, um,who are the most incredible
human beings.
Um, so I guess everything ithappens the way it should happen
, but it was.
It was a bad decision at thetime, but we were two completely
different people and for yearsI felt that again tapped into
the feelings I'm not good enough, I'm not worthy enough, and and
part of the reason I'd chosenmy ex-wife was that I didn't

(29:18):
think that I was good enough toreally attract the kind of woman
that I really wanted to be with, the woman that I aspired
towards, and um, and I settledand I didn't realize it at the
time and we were best friends,um, but I was never really in
love.

I grew to love her , but I was never in love with
her.

I never looked at her could say you're the most
beautiful woman and um, it itreally was a.
Maybe the grass isn't green onthe other side, um, and we, we
just dropped it apart.
Um, and one of the people thatI'd coached many years before
got in touch with me to ask if Iwould coach her again, and I
distinctly remember, for thefirst time in so many years,

(29:52):
feeling like a woman looked atme, like I mattered, like I was,
that I was worth something,that I was more than a husband
who was a provider, and nobodyever wakes up one day and looks
outside and says well, you know,this looks like a great day to
have an affair.
That's not how it happens.
Um, and I landed up having anaffair, and it wasn't with
somebody that I was in love withand it wasn't somebody I wanted

(30:13):
to be with, but it was somebodywho just ignited this thing
inside me and made me feel, forthe first time in a long time,
really good about myself.
So obviously a very big mistakeand something I now regret, and
it caused a lot of hurt andpain, but we continued for
another three years after that.
I think Ironman helped me a lot.

(30:35):
The endurance of it helped mein many hours to get into my
head and trying to figure out.
And one of the questions I hadto ask myself is are you a bad
person?
And that's a really toughquestion to have to ask yourself
.
And it's very hard to come upwith that answer when you're
sitting in the situation.
And I was seeing a psychologistand trying to figure this out
and week after week I would goin there and say, please tell me

(30:56):
.
I mean, you're a professional,you know me, you know my story.
Surely you can tell me.
Am I a bad person?
And she said I can't tell youthat.
You need to figure that out foryourself.
And finally one day I was intears and she said listen, do
you know?
What I can tell you is is youwouldn't be here if you were a
bad person.
You wouldn't be asking thisquestion if you were a bad
person.
But but the real question weneed to ask is why do good
people do bad things, or is itreally a bad thing?

(31:17):
Or those are the questions weneed to answer.
But it was a really tough timeand again it was that feeling of
getting back to that veryinsecure um young boy who felt
like this wimp and nerd anddidn't fit in and wasn't good
enough and wasn't sporty enoughand an iron man was the one
place I could go.
That made me feel like I wasgood enough.

(31:40):
Um, and if I put in the workand, and, and I think part of it
, part of it was also beatingmyself up a little bit.
Um, those very long sessionswhere you are, you're bonking
badly and you still have another50k to get home and you don't
know how you're going to gethome and there's the thunder
clouds looming and um, and it'slike, suck it up, suck it up
cupcake.

(32:00):
Um, you know, harden the flipup that stuff.
You know, drink a cup of cementand harden up.
Um, and, and, and.
So that's a very important partof it.
Actually, in fact, this is thefirst time I've actually put
this, you know, those thoughtstogether.
But it wasn't.
It was.
It was there was quite a lot ofthat beating myself up, um, but
seeing the result of that, thatand building on that, and then

(32:31):
through the divorce, those hoursand hours of training and going
through financial ruin,literally, I started in a world
that I had to start again fromscratch, struggling with work,
struggling with everything,struggling with depression, not
living with my girls reallybattling, but yet this was the
place I could go.
That made me okay.
This was the place that I'veactually never I've never

(32:53):
expressed that um, written abook and some of it's in there,
but not quite like this um.
So so I think now you canunderstand how, when cancer came
in, it was was uh, that's theplace.

I think it's, um, it's.
It's really brilliant that youcan share that and actually kind
of maybe process it in aslightly different way, but it's
, yeah, I mean, I can't imaginehow tough that is to go through,
um, you know it's like and Ithink, from what I understand of
your story, you've been throughthis cancer piece multiple

(33:27):
times, so that's probably a goodwhat.
Can you tell us how that cancerjourney has evolved, um, and
also, whilst doing so, kind oftell us what you think the
difference is between thesurviving mentality and the
victim mentality?

Sure, big breath .
Okay, so the first part of thatquestion.
So let me answer the second part.
First, the difference between asurvivor mentality and a victim
mentality.
So yeah, um, it's such a coolquestion because the survivor
mentality we, we we've beenconditioned to believe that we

(34:07):
are only a survivor once we haveactually survived this thing,
right?
So if either of you have ahouse that has got a mortgage on
it, if either of you've got afinanced car, if either of you
have got any kind of debtanywhere where you're not a
survivor of debt once you'vepaid off the debt, um, you're a
survivor of debt right now.

(34:27):
There it is.
You didn't have to survive, youdidn't have to get to the end
of it to be a survivor of it,right?
Um, anything if you, if you'vebeen divorced, you're a survivor
of divorce.
If you, if you currentlymarried, you're a magnificent
survivor of marriage.
If you got through covid andyou're still married, amazing,
you know, that was the hardesttime to be married.
And essentially, it's thatthinking of not having to get to

(34:47):
a finish line to be a survivorof something.
And in fact and this issomething I use in keynotes from
time to time and it's so cheesy, but it's so true I say to
people I want to share somethingwith you.
It's a brand new record, abrand new personal record that I
set today.
Today, I set a brand new recordfor the most number of
consecutive days that I've everbeen alive.

(35:08):
And people are like they'rekind of looking at that and
they're clapping for you andyou're like what are you
clapping for me for?
It's the same for you.
You set the same record today.
In other words, you're amagnificent survivor of every
single thing that has everhappened to you.
Today you have a hundredpercent survival rate of every
single thing that you've eversurvived.
And what on earth would make youthink that this next challenge,

(35:28):
this thing that is facing you,is going to be something you
can't get to the other side of?
That's a mindset that can onlybe a survivor once, and for me
it was a case of despitecounting down days, I was given
a six-month prognosis that firsttime, literally, and I'll never
forget the surgeon's words bymy best guess, you have six

(35:50):
months to live, by my best guess, and I responded.
The first thing was I couldn'tremember the date and I got
irritated and frustrated withmyself because I need to know
how long have I got?
How long, richard, you madethis appointment.
You're here in this day, howcan you not know?
And then, finally, it dawned onme.
I did the mental arithmetic andI realized that the 6th of

(36:13):
December that year was going tobe my checkout time.
And then my next thought waswow, I probably won't see
another Christmas.
And then my next thought was ofmy two little girls waking up
on Christmas morning without adad.
And then I got angry.
There was this ventriolicboiling rage that just came
bubbling out of me and it wasdirected at the only other

(36:33):
person in the room, the surgeon.
I know he didn't give me cancer, but he was the person telling
me that, by his best guess itwas how dare you, how dare you
think you can tell me how I'mgoing to respond?
Do you know who I am?
Do you know what I'm capable of?
Do you know what I've done inmy life?
Do you, do you realize what ittakes to have done the things
I've done?
And you think, who are thesepeople that you're comparing me
to, these non-athletes, thesenon-indigenous athletes, these,

(36:56):
these, these other people, who?
Who are they?
How old are they?
What do they look like?
How dare you think?
And it's impossible in thatmoment not to feel like you are
a victim a legitimate victim ofthis thing that's come into your
life and turned it upside down.
And in that moment you cannotnot think like you're a victim

(37:18):
and you are.
And Naomi Judd says somethingquite poignant.
She said you can only ever be avictim once.
Thereafter you are a volunteer,and I love that quote.
And I especially love itbecause, very sadly, naomi took
her own life and there was thatwhole struggle between I refuse
to be a victim and I don't wantto be a volunteer.

(37:41):
And when something happens to us, no matter how bad it is or no
matter how insignificant it isin that moment to be a volunteer
, and when something happens tous, no matter how bad it is or
no matter how insignificant itis, in that moment you're a
victim.
But thereafter it's what you dowith that, it's how you think
about that, what comes next?
And it took a while in thebeginning to get my head around
that.
But one of the most powerfulthings for me was Richard, if

(38:02):
something kills you now and Idid some research and clear
you're like this this is stats.
It's like 40.
It might even be higher, butit's it's somewhere around 50%,
somewhere around there, of all,people with a terminal illness
or disease or something die fromsome other cause, but your
entire life becomes overcomingthis thing.

(38:23):
Because you told that thisthing is going to come and get
you and I thought, well, hold on, if anything else gets me, I
can walk into the street and thebus hits me and I die.
I die a brain cancer survivor.
Look at that.
It didn't get me and then itwas.
And if it does, well, now I'mdead and it actually doesn't
matter.
Do I choose to live my lifewith this thing?
This thing defines who I am asa human being, the fact that I

(38:47):
am dying of brain cancer or am Iliving of all these other
things?
And I'll never forget themoment.
And we probably don't have timefor the story now, but there was
such a poignant moment where Ipicked up my two girls from
aftercare and I was in themiddle of.
It was after the brain op and Iwas non-invasive brain up

(39:11):
through the nose, endoscopic anda transphenoidal surgery and
once everything had healedenough, six weeks later I had to
go for radiation and literallythat was 35 treatments, seven
weeks of having your brain nukedand, um, I had my girls one
week and their mom had them oneweek and the weeks when I had my
girls were were the best weeksfor me, because I didn't want

(39:31):
them to know about the cancer.
Um, you know, our job asparents is to try and protect
our kids from as much as wepossibly can and we need to,
just, you know, butch up and puta big boy jocks on and pretend
that everything's fine.
So I'd leave them in aftercarefor as long as I could.
I'd go for the radiationtreatment, try and sleep in the
afternoon, pull myself together,pick them up, and my eldest got
into the car, mckinnon, and shedidn't even say hello.

(39:52):
She said Dad, I'm really sorry,I've got this project and it's
due for tomorrow.
And I'm like dad, you know awhole long story.
I said, okay, hold on, we're asolutions-oriented family.
What is this project?
You know how bad can it be.
And we had to build a solarsystem.
We had to go to a craft shop,pick out traffic, find this bag
of polystyrene balls.

(40:13):
All the polystyrene balls aredifferent sizes.
We had to identify each as thedifferent planets.
We had to paint notice.
We put it all together, line upand tomorrow morning hand in
the solar system.
You know it's.
It's that project that you kindof do for your kids, because at
10 years of age there's no waythey're going to do that on
their own, specificallyovernight, um, and I thought, oh

(40:33):
my goodness.
And I was stumped over thesteering wheel of my car waiting
for a traffic light to turngreen major intersection, and
I'm really struggling.
This little voice pops out.
It was mac and she said youokay.
And I said to her you'rebugging and battling, but you
know what?
I've never let you down before.
I'm probably not cooking dinnertonight.
We'll have takeaways deliverysomething, but I will get this
thing done.
I'm silenced for a bit.

(40:54):
And then the voice popped up andshe said daddy, nobody said it
would be easy and I will drown.
It's like where did that comefrom?
You've never heard that.
I've never said that to youbefore.
Who told you that?
Where did that come from?
And she got a podgetic as if shesaid something wrong and she
said dad, I'm really sorry, butI don't know what else to say.
And it's exactly what I neededto hear in that moment, because

(41:14):
I had become and this is reallyimportant, I had unwittingly
become a victim of brain cancer,even though I do not believe
that I've got a victim bone inmy body.
I don't believe that I'm avictim, but my entire life had
become cancer.
I was so focused on thisobstacle, on this thing that was
preventing me from living therest of my life, that my entire

(41:36):
life became that and I became avictim of cancer.
Because the more we focus onthe things that are in the way
of where we want to get to, themore we focus on the things that
are in the way of where we wantto get to, the more we focus on
the obstacles, the injuries,the impediments, the more we
focus on those things, the morewe become a victim of those
things.
The more we focus on the finishline, where we want to get to,
the more we become a problemsolver as how we're going to get

(41:56):
there, because we're focusingon that thing.
So I was focusing on thetreatments.
My entire life became cancer.
I was on two different types ofchemotherapy.
I was undergoing radiationtreatment.
I was on a really strict ketodiet.
I was taking four differenttypes of cannabis oil.
One of them was a suppository.
That's really not great, butit's the highest dose of
cannabis that you can take andnot be permanently high.
You should try that sometime.

(42:18):
Just don't tell many people, buteverything came about.
Every single one of my socialmedia posts ended with two
hashtags hashtag cancer warrior.
Hashtag fuck cancer.
You know, it was just takingthe fight to cancer.
And because my entire focus wascancer, I became a victim of
cancer.
And it took my little 10 yearold daughter to, to.

(42:39):
To just that one littlesentence, I realized hold on,
which, no, nobody's ever toldyou would be easy.
And and what about the rest ofyour life?
Is this really how you're goingto survive cancer?
Um, and I realized that Ineeded to aim at something on
the other side of cancer.
So the very next day, I enteredfull iron man state for brain
cancer.

(42:59):
I entered this thing that wasthree months after my checkout
time, this thing that everybodytold me it was absolutely
impossible.
It's the worst thing you coulddo to your body.
Don't tell me.
I know my body better thananybody else.
I'm not stupid.
I know how far I can pushmyself.
I know what I can do.
I know what I can't do.
I need to be here for my girls.
There's no way that I'm goingto jeopardize myself.

(43:20):
I know what I'm doing.
I need this thing because I'mnot Richard.
This cancer won't define me.
I'm still an endurance athlete,I'm still a father, I'm still a
creative person, I'm still acoach, I'm still a facilitator,
I'm still all of these things.
And oh, by the way, I also haveterminal brain cancer.
So that mind shift in terms ofhow I chose to think was

(43:43):
incredibly instrumental ingetting me to the other side, um
, and a lot of that is enduranceathlete thinking, um and so.
So you know, back to that place, I strongly believe that that
all those years prepared me forthis incredibly tough, prepared

(44:05):
me for this incredibly toughtime in my life.
And so I entered the Ironmanlater that year and I was really
struggling to train, but itdidn't matter If I could just
leave my front door and even ifI walked around the block,
that's all I could do.
I was not sitting on my couchin my house being a cancer
victim.
I was an athlete outside doingwhatever I could to try and get
to my finish line, and that wasreally important for me.

(44:30):
And in october that year I wentinto remission for the first
time and at that point in time Iwas only the 118th recorded
instance of somebody who'dsurvived the primary pituitary
carcinoma.
It was that rare, that freakyrare, being part of this elite
um group of people who'dsurvived this thing and I
celebrated big.
But it was tough after that,because now your life can never
be the same.
You can never go back to beingthe person you were before

(44:52):
cancer never.
Everything has changed.
And then there's the depressionof counting down the months,
counting down the days.
At that point in time Icouldn't afford to die, which
sounds kind of weird, but it was100% true.
I'd cancelled my life insurancewhen I got divorced and I
hadn't reinstated it.
And although I was mostly outof debt and back on my feet, I

(45:16):
certainly wasn't in a positionto leave my two girls with what
they needed to move forward withtheir lives without their dad,
without, without their primaryincome earner.
And what do you do?
How much longer do I have?
Am I going to be able to work?
How much can I work?
And I tried to get rid ofabsolutely everything I possibly
could that I didn't need.
I even cancelled my short-terminsurance policy, because you

(45:37):
know who needs short-terminsurance when you're dying,
right.
And it was a really tough timeof trying to rebuild my life and
deal with depression, um, offighting a terminal illness and,
uh, and still trying to do withthe training and still trying
to aim for this iron man, um,and I went away for a long
weekend on my own.
I knew I needed to process thisand I went into one of south

(46:00):
Africa's most amazing places,the Kruger National Park
Wildlife Reserve and it'smassive.
And I was on my own.
I drove in my VW Kombi andparked in a beautiful spot every
day for three days and I justwept.
It was just this very catharticthing of dealing with what I've
been through.
And on a Monday I drove homeand I parked in my driveway at

(46:21):
about half past six quarter toseven that evening.
I was on a Monday, I drove homeand I parked in my driveway at
about half past six quarter toseven.
That evening I was on my own,made supper, watched some TV,
went to bed and the next morning, at about half past two quarter
to three, I was woken by thisreally loud sort of bang noise
and immediately I'm like whatwas that?
What was it?
Did I hear something?
It was a dreaming.
It was a very weird sound.
Did something drop?
I don't recognize that sound.

(46:48):
And the next minute, there itwas again.
It was the same sound.
I was like I don't understandwhat that is and I heard this
metallic jingling of keys and Irealized that they were the keys
in my front door, on the insideof my front door.
And in that moment I realizedthat I was being broken into and
I reached out for the panicbutton on my bedside table and
it wasn't there.
I'd forgotten.
I'd left it on the kitchencounter.
When I came in and I thought,okay, where's the key for the
sliding door to get out of ourbedroom and run across the lawn

(47:09):
and jump into the next oneneighbor's garden?
And I realized that the key waswith the remote control kitchen
counter at the front door.
I was trapped in my bedroom andI don't believe in guns or
anything and I don't know what Ido.
What do I do?
And it was just so fast.
And I don't know what I do.
What do I do?
And, um, it was just so fastand I thought, okay, I got down
on the floor.
I thought, just slide underyour bed.
And as I got down, I looked upand there was a gun at my

(47:29):
bedroom and torchlight and Irealized, richard is stupid,
just get up and I looked down.
I said just leave me, justleave me, it's okay, it's okay.
And three armed men came into myroom that morning and shoved me
onto the bed and pushed a gunin my head and pushed me into
the mattress like this, and thatthey were angry and and
frenetic and put my thumb on myphone and who's coming?
And they systematically wentthrough whatsapp messages, phone

(47:51):
, who's in the house, where'sthe money where?
And in that moment I honestlythought I was going to be killed
my own in my, in my own home.
And they were brazen, put thelights on when they realized
nobody was there and they werein my house for two and a half
hours, um, and they'reeverything of value.
I slid on the bed or sat thereon the bed in a pool of sweat,
realizing that I'd forgotten toreinstate my short-term

(48:11):
insurance, um, and, and I had ashortfall with medical aid on so
many things and the treatmentsand I was struggling to pay for
that and I thought I can't evenreplace anything.
They tried on you'll love this.
They tried on my running shoesin my bedroom in front of me,
like looking at each other.
Hey, you know what do you think?
I looked at that thinking youguys have got no idea how fast

(48:32):
your getaway is going to betomorrow night because those
shoes, those are fast shoes,just like that.
And they loaded everything intomy iron man bags and you know
how personal and sentimentalthose bags are and they loaded
everything into the iron manbags and literally everything of
value.
I can't replace any of it.
I went all my shoes and the onepair of Converse sneakers that
they left me because they had ahole in the back.
That was it, the only pair ofshoes in my cupboard.

(48:54):
Um, and and as I sat there thatevening, again that survivor
mentality was like I'm 118thperson.
I'm part of this elite bunch ofpeople to ever have existed.
I've I've spent my entireexistence has been fighting this
thing to get to this pointwhere I'm a survivor and I'm
going to be killed in my ownhome, like so many other people
that cross this planet so often.
What is the point, um?

(49:16):
And that was powerful for me,it was richard.
You need to live your life asif you're a magnificent survivor
of every single thing that'sever happened to you.
You don't have to wait to be asurvivor.
You are already a survivor, nomatter what.
You're a survivor.
You need to figure out what youneed to do today to get to
where you want to get to.
That's the only thing thatcounts.
And people were amazing.
They got around me andsupported me, and, and and

(49:39):
helped to fund me, and that'sthe sponsors that I still have
now came about at that timePeople were really amazing.
And then cancer came back andit was harder the second time.
Because you think of everythingyou went through the first time
and you just think I'm sodepleted.
How do I, how on earth do I,how do I do it all again?

(50:02):
It's like you just finish anIronman.
Somebody says, okay, you're notdone.
Here's another one and you'relike, uh, okay, uh, you know, I
don't know that I can do that Um, and it took longer to get my
head around it Um, but I stillhad that Ironman um and I was
still determined that I wasgoing to get there and I did
what little training I could doand you'll appreciate this.

(50:23):
This isn't something I normallyshare because people don't get
it Between Christmas Day andrace day which I think that was
the 6th or 10th of April, but itwas the first or second week of
April Between Christmas Day andthat I swam once.
Literally just got to the gym.
I did 1,500 meters just to makesure that my arms still
remembered how to swim.
I had 10 cycles.

(50:44):
The longest cycle was 110 k's,that was it, and when I finished
that I got off the bike.
I couldn't even run off thebike.
I was like I just can't do thisand my longest run was 12 k's.
I still have all the goingfiles.
That was my training for anironman um and I got down um
ironman weekend.
I got to there on thursday wentregistration, got through the
whole registration process andthose days they used to give you

(51:05):
a timing chip at the last tableat registration.
You got it at registration andthere was a note next to my name
, no timing chip for Richard andI had to phone the race
organiser, paul Wolf, and theycouldn't tell me why.
But I wasn't allowed to get atiming chip.
So I knew Paul well, done manyevents with him and I lived in
Port Elizabeth.

(51:25):
I was now back in Johannesburgand because to do a divorce, my
ex-wife wanted to move back withthe girls and I had to give
permission and for a year I wasflying up once a month to see my
girls.
It was horrible and I moved upas soon as I could and I phoned
Paul and I said hey and um, Iphoned.
Paul.
And I said hey, paul, you knowwhat's up?

(51:46):
And he said, richard, um, youknow, race organizer, I'm
responsible for every athletethat toes the line and I take
the responsibility veryseriously.
And when something happens, I'mresponsible and I know your
story and I can't takeresponsibility for you.
I'm really sorry, I can't letyou race.
So I was red carded before therace and it was a horrible,
horrible feeling.
I was like I haven't come thisfar, just to come this far.
This is so important to me,this race is so important.
My wife, I can do this thing.

(52:07):
I can beat brain cancer again.
If I can do this thing, youknow I'm gonna be okay.
It is so important to me.
I cannot not do this thing.
And I got really angry and Isaid but you know me, you know
I'm not stupid.
I've got two girls, I'm.
If somebody, I'll, I'll, I'll,I'll.
I just need to start this thing.
If I'm struggling, I put myhand up.
Somebody can pull me out of thewater, I'll, you know, I just

(52:29):
need to start.
He said, richard, I can't letyou do that.
I don't have the enoughinformation.
Um, so I got that angry.
I said to him I was going torace alongside everybody.
I'm gonna.
I'll turn around on the beachalong, you know, away from
everybody else.
I'm going to do the race on myown.
And he said, richard, pleasedon't do that.
I said I'm going to do that.
You've given me no choice.
There's no reason that you haveto stop me from doing this race
.
And he said, please don't dothat.

(52:49):
We will pull you from the race,please don't do that.
And I was so dejected and I wentto where I was staying and I in
the goodie bag, and I lookedthrough all the rules and I
couldn't find anything.
And finally got to the medicalsection and race medical
director.
It was my GP from PortElizabeth where I used to stay,

(53:11):
conrad van Hagen.
I thought no ways, if anybody,because what Paul had said to me
if you can find any one of yourspecialists that's willing to
write a letter that says thatthey give you their blessing to
do the race, we'll let you race.
And at that moment I laughedhysterically.
There was no way anybody wasgoing to sign a letter.
There would always be yes,thank goodness, we actually
don't want him to race.
It was like that.

(53:31):
So what on earth am I going todo?
And there was Conrad.
They got a hold of Conrad and hesaid yeah, he's the race
director he's at the they'resetting up the medical tent and
it's apparently going to bereally hot on race day and it's
always the worst thing for them.
Uh, it's a tough day.
And I told him what I needed.
I said please, can I ask youjust for a letter that says and
I guess what he said.
He said, uh, richard, I'mreally sorry but I can't do that

(53:53):
.
Um, he said I signed an oathand it's I'd have to take
responsibility.
I'm not part of your medicalteam.
Uh, with the cancer and I, Idon't know enough.
I I said, connor, there has tobe a way.
And he said to me okay, we'vegot three days if you're willing
to undergo any test procedurethat I'm deemed necessary, so I
can be in a position where I'mhappy to sign that you can do
this thing.
If you're willing to do that,no problem.

(54:15):
I said, fantastic, where do Isign?
So, for three days went underwhen any medical tests, and we
did lung function, we did heart,we did you name it, we did it.
And I was the story of Ironmanthat year, the feel good story.
And I was interviewed by asports crew the Saturday before
the event and I still didn'tknow if I was going to race.

(54:36):
And we did two interviews.
The one interview was Richarddoesn't race and the other
interview was Richard races.
We still didn't know and on onrace morning at quarter to six
I've got little videos andeverything.
Um, it's part of what I use insome of my talks.
There's a video crew followingme into the medical tent, my two
little girls holding my hands.
I go in there to find conrad.

(54:56):
I holds up a piece of paper.
He says here all the results.
I've had a good look, he said.
Right before I say anything,all I want to ask you is,
richard, how important is thisrace to you?
I said Conrad, this race isreally important to me.
He held it up.
He said I've got no medicalreason to withhold you from
racing, but I'm asking you asyour friend, are you sure it's

(55:17):
that important?
Because I don't know that youshould.
I said Conrad, hold up thatpiece of paper again.
And he phoned paul from themedical tent, um, that morning
and said to paul I'm givingrichard the go ahead.
So I got.
I got a um, a um timing chip ontable and that blow up banner
on the beach left hand side as Iwent into the water.

(55:38):
That it was that touch and goamazing.
I remember standing on on thebeach thinking I shouldn't be
here, thinking of all thereasons and that's what we do
right Thinking of all thereasons why I shouldn't be there
, all the things that could gowrong on race day, and it was a
really, really tough day.
It was hard.
But the whole time is why areyou here?
Why are you here If you can dothis thing?

(55:58):
If you can do this thing?
And getting into my head and andand and I use mantra a lot in
times of my mood I'll say I'mstrong, feeling good, strong,
powerful, strong.
But you have to say it, um,because when you say something,
when you speak something, youcannot hold another thought in
your brain, right?
You cannot, so it's impossible,but you so I mean the pictures

(56:20):
of me walking and I lookedterrible.
But I'm saying I'm strong,feeling good, strong, feeling
good, and your body will lookfor the evidence to prove what
you're saying, because thethoughts that you put in your
head are your thoughts.
Your brain can't think foritself.
Your brain runs on what you putin there and whatever you put
in there, your brain tries tofind evidence to prove it and it
filters out the evidence thatdisproves it.
And it can go both ways.
I can say I'm at kilometer 17,yay, I'm at kilometer 17, or I'm

(56:43):
only at kilometer 17.
Um, I'm not taking nutrition.
Well, I'm not throwing upeither.
You know, it can go either way.
And so kilometer 91 I rememberdistinctly.
My body was just, that's it,we're done.
From that moment on.
Still have the garment file, Icouldn't get my heart rate above
127 beats per minute.
For the rest of the race, from91Ks on the bike, my body we

(57:06):
haven't trained it went intoprotection mode and we need to
shut down because you're pushingus but you're not happening.
That's where the mind takesover and says forget it, we're
moving forward.
So I got to the finish linethat year 187th out of 2,000-,
2000 odd people, 10, 20.
Um, and obviously stoppedcompeting for age group, but I'm

(57:27):
pretty confident.
I won the cancer category andthat's all that mattered at that
point in time.
And so that was the first oneUm, and it was kind of if I can
do this extraordinarily hardthing, um, I can beat brain
cancer.
So that was the first five fullIronman races with with cancer.
So that was the first five fullIronman races with cancer,
almost ten and a half, a coupleof multi-stage mountain bike

(57:48):
races and I chased finish linesbecause, if I can do this thing,
this endurance athlete, this ismy identity.
It's part of what defines me asa human being and if I can do
this thing, it became thatimportant for me.
I'm not this insecure, unworthy, not good enough.
This is the thing that gives methat, my locus of control, my

(58:10):
feelings of I am good, I ampowerful, I can do this thing.
Um, you can't take that awayfrom me.

Um, it became that a lot of people listening to
that story will have thought whyI did.
I did some training, but notenough, and it still felt awful.
And yet you did very littletraining and literally got a
medical doctor to sign you off.
I think is awesome.
And, as you say, you know thepower of your psychology to get
you know, to get you through.
You talk, then, just about I am.

(58:39):
My understanding is you've gota tattoo of I am, um, tell us,
there it is.

I don't even see the.
I am there, we go.
There's the.
I am the.
I am over there.

I see all the words so tell us a little bit
about that tattoo what?
What does it mean where?
When did you decide to have it?
What does it give you?
Still every day?

you're, you're touching on all, you're touching
on all the feely parts so thatfirst diagnosis um and as an
athlete as anybody as any humanbeing and funny um.
So I come from sort of atraining background and one of
the things I've spoken about alot is identity, and that's
really important and I used totrain salespeople and I talk
about your identity and who youare and your why, and you've got

(59:21):
to.
You've got to relate that back,because what you do is a world
of rejection.
There's so much rejection as asalesperson before you actually,
you know, make money at the endof the day and you've got to
know who you are.
But that's true for all of us,right?
And so much of who we are isconditioning.
You know, why are you Catholic?
Well, my parents are Catholic.
Why are your parents Catholic?

(59:41):
You're Catholic.
Well, my parents are Catholic.
Why are their parents?
Why are your parents Catholic?
Well, their parents areCatholic.
Why do you believe this thing?
Well, my parents believe thatthing.
Why do they believe?
Well, because they believe.
You know, it's all of that youknow, and at any stage you can
say well, actually I don't wantto believe that anymore, or
maybe that isn't true, or maybeI want to believe something else
.
And we also believe that we arewho we are.
You know, I might say I'm a Leo.

(01:00:02):
Because I'm a Leo, I like tohave my ego stroked and I like
to, you know, be on stage and Ilike attention.
And because actually we'requite insecure people and we've
got this big, brave friend.
That's who I am.
No, it's.
It's a story you've madeyourself.
And, yeah, how much of that isactually really true and how
much of that is what you chooseto believe?
Right, but we become, um,especially when we're, we become
all the things we want, ourparents want us to be.

(01:00:24):
It's good girl, claire.
Good girl, we like it.
When we do that, we love you.
When we do that, bad girl,claire, go to your bedroom, we
don't want to see you.
And so we get conditioned todoing and becoming a certain
thing.
We go to school and ourteachers say A is for amazing
and F is for failure, and weneed more of this and less of
this.
And Einstein said you can'tjudge a frog by its ability to

(01:00:44):
climb a tree.
We're the same education system,but we don't all fit in, and so
some of us feel we're not goodenough and others feel we're
brilliant.
And then, who are the friendsthat you had, and what did that
say to you?
And who are the friends youdidn't have, and what did that
say to you?
And who did you have to becomenow to attract the current
partner that you've got?
And who do you have to come todrive the car that you drive, to
stay where you stay, to havethe job that you stay?

(01:01:06):
You know all those things tofind who we are.
And all of a sudden, whensomebody says to you your time
on this planet is limited, yourealize, okay, hold on, I don't
have to be anything for anybodyanymore, and that was the gift.
One of the biggest gifts wasthe gift of authenticity.
I and that was the gift.
One of the biggest gifts wasthe gift of authenticity.
I spent a lifetime of peoplepleasing, a lifetime of trying

(01:01:27):
to be all the things that otherpeople wanted me to be, who I
needed to be, to be liked orloved or respected, and a lot of
that stuff is legitimate and itis.
You know, it becomes identity.
But but or is it, and at thatpoint in time it's like, okay, I
don't have to be anything forany anybody anymore, and you
won't.
At that time, when you'recounting down days, you won't do

(01:01:48):
anything that you don't want todo.
You won't spend time withanybody you don't want to spend
time with.
You become precious withabsolutely everything.
Even look at your friends andand who are my friends?
Are these my friends because wewent to school together?
Are they be friends becausefacebook tells me I said they
were friends?
Are we friends because my wentto school together?
Are they my friends becauseFacebook tells me?
Are they my friends because myparents are friends with their
parents?
Is this my tribe?
I've got so little time left.

(01:02:09):
Who do I want to spend thattime with?

Claire Fudge (01:02:12):
And looking at myself, thinking, okay, hold on,
I don't have to be anything foranybody anymore.

Richard Wright (01:02:17):
Then suddenly you realize, well, who the hell
am I?
Who am I actually?
And I went through a realidentity crisis of trying to
struggle with who, who, who am I?
And that's when I started thetattoo.
In fact, all of my tattoos arecancer related one way or
another, although there's nocancer anything on my body, um,
and something that defines youto the point where I can't.

(01:02:40):
I.
Am I strong?
Okay?
Well, what if I don't feelstrong today?
I can't, let me rub that oneout.
I don't feel that one today.
It doesn't come off.
So it's got to be a sense ofpermanence, and it was a real.
Each one of them.
I either designed or found theword somewhere.
But who am I?
And the first words were easyI'm authentic, I'm strong, I'm

(01:03:05):
brave, I'm unique, I'm nowchange, I'm formidable.
And then you think, okay, buthold on, um, that's not only who
you are.
And that was the best and mostpowerful thing was the
realization that I could ownthings that are less than things
that we deem to be negativetrays.
And the minute you do that, youactually you don't relinquish

(01:03:28):
power, you assume power, becausewhen I say, here's a good one,
here's a good one, right.
So I might say that I've been sovulnerable on this podcast to
whoever is watching andlistening, and I've told people
that I am a lying, cheatingbastard.
I cheated on my wife.
Do you think less of me or not?

(01:03:48):
Well, that's up to you, but thefact that I'm willing to put
that out there means that it nolonger has power on me.
I've had to confront thosethings, admit them to myself,
heal from them and put them outthere and say that is who I am.
That is it.
But do I choose to keep onbeing that or do I choose not to
?
And we are a gloriousconglomeration of every single

(01:04:10):
human trait that's out there.
We are the good, the bad andugly.
Trust me, I am an axe murderer.
You come in here and you makeadvances on my daughter and you
threaten her, and I promise youthat that axe will come out.
All of us have that right.
But who do we choose to be?
Because we can change that atany time.

(01:04:31):
Identity is in flux.
Identity isn't a finite thing.
You can become, with identity,whomever you want to become.
Physically it's a little bitdifferent, but identity isn't,
and so I started putting wordsup that are less than I've got.
Obsessive, excuse me.
And obsessive is part of whatgot me to the finished line of

(01:04:53):
Ironman with stage four braincancer.
But it's also what got me tothe finished line of iron man
with stage four brain cancer.
But it's also what got me intotrouble with, you know, after a
girlfriend, after divorce, whereI was obsessed that this is the
right person in my life andthis and no, you're not looking
clearly it's wrong, it's not foryou I've got.
You know, damaged is is all thelevels damaged up.
This is a great one.
I don't know if I can say this,but anyway, that is the

(01:05:14):
international cinema for fuckedup.
Because there it is.
You know, aren't we all alittle bit fucked up?
And when you put that out there, you don't lose anything of
yourself.
In fact, you become moreaccessible to other people, and
other people look at you andresonate with that, you know,
and me even saying I made amistake and and and so so here's
the interesting thing everyrelationship ends in a third

(01:05:35):
party.
Every significant relationshipends in a third party.
That third party could bealcohol, it could be addiction
to some sort of abuse, it couldbe work, it could be money, it
could be sport, it could beanother person.
Um, for me it was another person, but every I'm still cheating
on this person with any of thoseother things it just we, just
we just don't like to admit itthat way or see it that way, and

(01:05:58):
when we're vulnerable and putourselves out there, this is who
I am, this is who I am.
Um, people resonate and theydon't necessarily resonate the
way we want them to, but they'lltake something from that and
say it's okay that I'm also that, or okay, so I can admit that,
or it doesn't take anything awayfrom who Richard is.
That's just part of who he is,and that was an incredibly,

(01:06:18):
incredibly powerful thing for meand a bunch of words that need
to come up here, that stillneeds to be there.
Um, but intense, impulsive,needy, um.
I told my wife she wasn't mywife at the time my second wife,
deborah, my current wife she'samazing.
Um, I said to my girls I put upwords and she wasn't my wife at
the time.
My second wife, deborah, mycurrent wife she's amazing.
I said to her my girls had putup words and they didn't know

(01:06:38):
that it was going to be on myarm when they were little and I
said if you could think of yourdad in one word, what would you
say?
And my eldest daughter,mckinnon, said amazing.
And my youngest said hero.
And about three weeks later Iasked them again and my eldest
said I've changed my word.
So I said okay, no problem, Iwant you to write them, I want
you to write them.
So they wrote their words down.
I said I'm actually going toput those, give it to the tattoo

(01:07:01):
artist.
They're going to put them on.
And no, no, no, we can do itbetter.
I said no, no, no, it's exactlythe way it should up.
And my eldest had changed theword to superman, but she wrote
it with two words super man, um,I love that.
It was just who my dad is.
And I gave them another shot,because it's quite that I am, um

(01:07:21):
.
And I said who, you know, who'syour dad.
And so they had another shotand my youngest was happy place
and my eldest was rock, um, mydad, my rock.
And then I said to deborah, youalso get a turn.
And she wouldn't tell me whatthe word is.
The tattoo artist just put iton.
And when they finished, I lookedand it was needy.
But here's the amazing thing noissue.

(01:07:43):
So I'm needy.
And now when she tells me, yes,you really are needy, I'm like,
yeah, sure I am.
So I'm like, oh, look there, itis there, it is.
It says needy, says nearly.
You know you can't stop.
So that's what I am and it'sokay.
It's okay.
I can choose whether I want tobe more of it or less of it.
Um, but when we, when we figureout that identity, it's um,
it's it's empowering.

Charlie Reading (01:08:04):
That's absolutely brilliant and
actually, funnily enough so Iwas as I.
We were chatting before we hitrecord and I was saying I did a
a whole morning's workshopyesterday on goal setting and I
was talking about you know, it'svery easy to kind of which.
I use some of the examples ofthe amazing people we've had on
this podcast and I have no doubtthat you'll be featuring in
those examples going forward andsome business examples, like

(01:08:25):
Elon Musk.
But you know, people have theseamazing goals and I was like
well, actually it's about beingyour own hero and the and a hero
to the people you care mostabout.
That doesn't mean you have tomake us into a multi-planetary
species and solve global warmingby eliminating the petrol car.
It's what makes you brilliantand the best that you can be.
So I absolutely love that.

(01:08:45):
I think it's really, reallypowerful.
So we always ask you'veobviously written two books
yourself, um and uh, andobviously we'll put the links in
the in the show notes.
But I always ask guests whatbooks have helped them on their
journey or what books they findthemselves recommending to
others.
So what books have you foundthat have really helped you?

so so before, before I go there just to
reiterate what you've said.
There is purpose, which is whatI said right in the beginning
that purpose isn't this bigthing, isn't this massive thing.
Purpose is purely a collectionof the little things that you do
in a day that make you feelhappy, excite you and give you a
sense of meaning.
That is it, and that could bebeing a hero to your kids that
makes you feel happy, it excitesme, gives me a sense of meaning

(01:09:29):
.
I don't have to be anybodyelse's hero, but what?
What I need to be to be theirhero, and one day they're going
to become old enough to realizethat that actually isn't a hero,
but still my hero.
So it's that stuff, and themore of that you identify, the
more of that stuff youaccumulate and recognize and
celebrate, the more purpose youwill have and the more it grows,
and that's an incredible thing.

(01:09:52):
So to get back to books, um, so,yeah, there are a bunch that I
really really love um, and I'mterrible at remembering um books
and and authors, but there arethree that help me um, a hell of
a lot.
Um, and the one that I enjoy isyou're not so smart.
It's all to do with what I do,which is human behavior.
It's all to do with thinkingand essentially for me, and it's

(01:10:15):
endurance, exactly it's how dowe get to the finish line.
I can put in the same hours, Ican do the same training, I can
eat the same things, I can be inthe same nutrition plan, the
coaching plan, and I doabsolutely everything to the
best of my ability, but surely Ican do better, you can and

(01:10:37):
mental part.
So so it's the mental andtraining and cement, and we all
know this right, and you've hadsome much smarter people than me
on your podcast that haveexplained all of that.
But the books that have helpedme, um, tons, and the first one
is been on the best thing listfor like 383 weeks or something
like that.
Uh, mark manson, um, um, thefirst, first book, but that's
not the one.
Um, I struggled a bit with thatbook because just that kind of
why are you using?

that word so much.

You're just using that word because you and
and it was a, it was, it was, itwas good, but it was an easy
read.
But his second one, everythingis fucked.
That I love because he actuallygot into some science and he
got into a little bit deeperbeneath the giving a fuck um.
So I don't know if you can saythat or not say that, but you
can say that yeah, and, and it'scalled a book about hope and I

(01:11:16):
hate the concept hope.
Hate it because hope isoverrated and hope is a useless
concept.
Um, it's like you know, I get,I get diagnosed with
state-of-the-art brain cancerand, um, I just sit there and do
nothing and people say what areyou doing?
I'm hoping.
I believe that stuff works.
You know, aren't you gonna goand do anything?
No, no, I'm hoping, surely.
I believe that stuff works.

Aren't you going to go and do anything?
No, I'm hoping.

Surely that's the way it works, or I'm praying
or whatever it is, becausethat's kind of what we do.

None of it works unless you actually do something
about it and then you hope.

Hope is something you give people
actually.
Anyway, love Malcolm Gladwell,blink, love, love, love.
This book.
There we go, you're noddingyour head, your head, and again,
it's how we think.
But probably my ultimatefavorite is david adam the
genius within and the way it'swritten.
What he puts in his own humanexperiment and trying to figure

(01:12:07):
out how to make yourself smarteressentially, um, but it's all
about all of these booksaltogether are how can you
change the way you think, or ifyou understand how bad you think
, how can you get a betteroutcome?
Or how can you best deal withthat?
And I think the basis for all ofthese books are our brain is

(01:12:29):
the most incredibly powerfulthing that can help us to do the
most incredible things.
But it works exactly the sameway in reverse.
It is our biggest obstacle, ourabsolute biggest obstacle, and
unfortunately, we, we.
So something I often ask peopleis um, are you more of the

(01:12:50):
thinking brain or the feelingbrain?
Which one are you more?
And we wish we were more of thethinking brain or the feeling
brain?
Which one are you more?
And we wish we were more of thethinking brain, because if we
could just, we could just accessthis more man, we can get so
much more done, but the problemis we don't realize that we're
actually controlled by thefeeling brain and we understand
how that ties in.
Uh, and that's been a very,very big part of my journey.
So, yeah, those are the booksbrilliant, they are amazing.

So there's two there that I've never even heard
of before, so they'redefinitely going on the reading
list.
Malcolm Gladwell, one of myfavorite authors Just brilliant.
That is fantastic.
But Mark Manson I like.
Like you, I didn't really ratethe subtle, subtle art of not
giving a fuck, so I then didn'tread his second book, but I'm
interested in that, so I will goback to that.

(01:13:32):
So, yeah, brilliant one,excellent.
I shall do that.
We also have a closingtradition on the podcast where
we get the last guest to ask thenext guest a question without
knowing who that guest is goingto be.
Our last guest was colin cook,and colin cook, um, was, uh,
living a life of alcohol anddrugs and then ended up becoming
a very good ironman athlete,for reasons that you'll

(01:13:54):
completely understand as well asas us.
Um, the addictive personalityworks very good well in
endurance sport, and I thinkClaire's got Colin's question
for you so Colin asked if youhad one day left, how would you
use it?

um, if I had one day left, how would I use it?
I would turn off my phone.
I would sit down with Debra andour three girls and ask them
how they would want to spend theday with me.
What would you like to do withme before I turned off the phone
?
I'm hoping this moment comes topass next year.

(01:14:32):
This year, nowil the 30th, Iwould pop up a little video,
just a massive, massivegratitude of thanks to every
single person who has beenbehind me and supported me and
believed in me and held me intheir thoughts and their um and
carried me um, because that hasbeen absolutely, absolutely

(01:14:56):
incredible over the last eightyears of my life.
Then I would turn it off and Iwould spend the time with my
family Brilliant, I wouldn'teven go for a ride.
I wouldn't go for a run.
None of that stuff'ssignificant and none of that
stuff means anything anymore,just the people.

That question is an amazing question.
I'm really pleased that thatquestion came to you, because so
that's a question that I usedto.
I used to run a financialplanning business and we used to
ask every client that questionin their first meeting, because
it doesn't, you know, all of thelovely fluffy stuff suddenly
falls away, even the stuff thatyou like, but that is not
essential, not that you know.
It boils everything down to themost important thing, and

(01:15:33):
clearly, that family andgratitude for, for, for, what
you've received, which is whichis absolutely amazing.
Um, I'd like to wrap this, uh,unbelievable interview up with
um with one final question, andthat is what what you're.
You're very passionate about,bonsai trees.
Um, what have you learned fromthe world of bonsai that you

(01:15:58):
bring to the rest of your life?
yeah um, that's a great questionso so I have.

I got interested in bonsai when I was, when I
was really little and I wasstruggling, um, as a kid and I
was going to therapy because Iwas an angry kid and the
therapist gave me a bonsai.
Before that I landed up with myparents and we just happened to
be in some botanical gardensand I saw a bonsai exhibition
and I just fell in love withthese trees and I asked for some

(01:16:24):
money and they thought it wasfor some crystal, some coke or
something.
And I came back with thislittle tree, these trees, and I
asked for some money and theythought it was for some crystal,
some Coke or something.
And I came back with thislittle tree and, um, it became a
real something to energy andthat was positive.
It was growing, it was natureand loved that.
And the therapist actually gaveme a couple of trees as well
and loved that and then kind ofput that to bed for many years
because we moved around and umsort of picked it up again when

(01:16:45):
I was 21 and became a realpassion and became something I
was really good at.
I've traveled a bit,demonstrating became something I
was really good at and I had afantastic collection and when
cancer came along, unfortunatelyI lost about 70% of my trees
and just watching them die and Ididn't want to sell them, I
didn't want to get rid of themat that point in time, because

(01:17:06):
they represented the essence ofan investment of me and and
something that was growing andliving and and um, it was
necessary and I'd lost so much.
I moved down from Johannesburgto Port Elizabeth with a wife, a
daughter, um, a cat, five dogs,an entire bonsai collection

(01:17:26):
Amazing and I moved back withwhat was left of a collection
and two goldfish.
It was, it was a massive lossand the trees represented this
thing that had kind of stayedaround with me and they were
still there and they werehanging on and and and they'd
been through a bunch of movesand cancer came and had an
automatic sprinkler system totry and water them, because I'm

(01:17:46):
so focused on trying to fightthe cancer and I was so tired, I
was slept so much at the timeand it was impossible to look
after the trees and literally Ijust watched them die and about
70% of the trees died and in2021, I had kind of given up a
little bit, I just kept themalive.
What was left?
I kind of thought, okay, holdon two seconds.

(01:18:07):
Covid left.
I kind of thought, okay, holdon two seconds, covid, you're
not able to get to the racesthey've postponed.
You're trying to train.
It's not working.
Kansas, come back again for thethird time During COVID I beat
it the third time came back forthe fourth time.
I've kind of given up onexercising and Ironman and all
of those things.
Maybe you're never going to dothis again, but I still have to
believe in something that is thefuture, and Bonsai really is

(01:18:31):
the idea of creating this thingthat can outlive you, outlast
you for a future generation,this ancient old tree that
represents something growing innature that you can hand down or
somebody else can take on andbecome a custodian.
And it was a real sense oftrying to leave something,
create something.
And because I couldn't get lifeinsurance anymore, it also
became an investment and I threwmyself into that.

(01:18:54):
And what was interesting isthat some of the trees that had
survived everything, I had tocut all the branches off and
start again and create somethingnew from this thing that had
somehow survived thecatastrophic life that I'd been
through, and the lessons there,I'm sure, are quite obvious.
It's you can reinvent yourself,don't know how many times.

(01:19:17):
It doesn't matter how manytimes life has scarred you, how
many times this cut off limbs.
Whatever's happened, there's noreason with with nurture, care,
time, patience, but it's daily,it's a, it's a, a daily
execution of you can't miss aday of watering.
It's doing these little thingsevery single day that you're
going to be rewarded for laterdown the line.

(01:19:37):
It's having a 30-year-old treethat you haven't missed water,
enough water for it to have died.
You've kept it and we, each ofus, have that ability, that
spirit, um, and and I thinkthat's a very big part of it.
And then it's the creative, andit's nature and it's being
outside and it's been in the sun, but it really is that rebirth

(01:19:59):
and regeneration and being ableto style something and you cut
it back and it's actually thebest thing for it.
Um, cut it hard back, it growsbetter, um, and life does that
to us, you know, and but when weget cuts and bruises, we, we
kind of focus on the cuts andbruises and we don't understand
that actually that's part ofwhat makes us better down the
line, um, and so what'sinteresting in that journey is

(01:20:19):
that I, um, I started helpingsomebody to his first iron man.
He didn't ever think he wasgoing to.
A captain of industry got a bigname in this country and he had
five and a half months toIronman.
He'd given up on Ironman hehadn't even entered.
He'd entered a couple of halfIronman races and just hadn't
got there.
And he had a big dream ofgetting to the finish line by
the time he turned 50.

(01:20:51):
And he said Richard, I'm amarathon, I'm not a swimmer.
I've never cycled more than 75kilometers.
I said you've got five and ahalf months.
He said but I'm, I'm 111kilograms.
I said you've got five and ahalf months.
Um, you don't have to win thething, you can come last.
In fact, I think that thisshould be a competition for who
comes last, because the personwho comes last gets gets more
recognition on the highlightspackage than the person who wins
the race.
In fact, the tradition withironman south africa is that the
winners come back at 12 o'clockto welcome the last person

(01:21:13):
across the line and then you geta confetti cannon.
There are three people in therace to get a confetti cannon
those two people and you.
Why would you not want to bethat person.
And all you needed was thisperson to believe in him.
And he said do you reallybelieve I can do that?
I said for sure, and he saidbut will you coach me?
I said for sure, with thegreatest pleasure, in fact, I'll
do one better.
I'll do it with you.
I just I just need to startthis thing again.

(01:21:36):
I believe I can.
I'm in remission now and I willdo it with you.
I'll hold your hand and thatmeans that I don't have to worry
about, you know, having totrain too much.
I can do it with you becauseI've done two Ironman races with
another person captain ofindustry before, many years
before, and they were two of mybest Ironman races because they
were 15 hours, 54 and 14 hoursand a half.

(01:21:56):
And I love the race becausepeople talk to each other,
people like, interact People.
You know, it's actually reallyamazing.
Anyway, so this guy, rudy, hedidn't miss a single session.
I gave him not one singlesession.
In fact, I had to hold him back.
It was every single thing.
But my reason, mine, wasenriching his life by getting
him to his finish line.

(01:22:16):
We trained together.
I spoke to him every single day.
He was on planes to London,getting off an overnight flight,
getting to a gym and training.
He lost 14 kilograms.
We got to Ironman and I stoodon the beach, uh, last year, and
all of a sudden I burst intotears.
It was just this overwhelmingfeeling of it had been about him
, the whole thing it had beenabout really, and I suddenly

(01:22:39):
realized this is the first timein eight years I've got my feet
in the sand of an unmanned beachand I've done a brain cancer.
It was the most overwhelmingthing.

And then after that I thought, maybe I can be
competitive again.

You never know, Maybe I can.
I had seven weeks to get intoshape for Durban 70.3.
I came second in my age groupand qualified for world champs.
Taupo Unfortunately didn't getthere.
Finances Came third overall inmy age group for 70.3 muscle bay

(01:23:12):
and I really would love topodium for the first time in an
Ironman event for years andyears and years on March the
30th.
So that's the endurance athleteand the bonsai.
It doesn't matter what you'vebeen through, how much you might
give up.
You've just got to startwatering and feeding and
flipping back and realizing thatat any stage in your life you

(01:23:34):
can reinvent, reimagine.

You've got to start somewhere I think that is
an unbelievable way of finishingwhat has been a, an
inspirational and incredibleconversation with you.
Richard, I think so.
So you live in a an amazingpart of the world.
Both Claire and I have doneIronman South Africa, in fact,
where I got my Kona slot um, Isorry, I got engaged in South
Africa, so I've I've been backmany, many times.

(01:23:57):
It's an amazing part of theworld.
So you, you race in a beautifulplace, but, but thank you for
sharing the story.
Thank you, thank you for beingvulnerable and thank you for
being just absolutelyinspirational, because I know
that no, certainly, I keptspeaking for myself that I found
that to be truly inspirationaland I know listeners will have

(01:24:18):
done the same.
So, um, I look forward tofollowing the journey.
Hopefully, we'll be sharing astage together at some point.
Um and uh, I won't meet inperson, but, um, for now, thank
you very much for for beingtruly amazing thank you both.

Um, it's been absolute privilege.
Thank you so so much.
Um.
So I'm just putting this outthere um, it's the 20th year
anniversary of iron man, southafrica, charlie, um.
So it's a very, very specialevent and there are still
entries I.

But you know and I so I raced there last year
and uh, and I was kind of like,oh, maybe I should have
deferred for a year, but then Iwouldn't have had a Kona slot.
It would have been a Nice slotand I won't be there this time
round, but I actually would dothat race again.
I think I'd never really spentmuch time around Port Elizabeth.
I'd spent a lot of time aroundCape Town Game Reserves.

(01:25:08):
The spent much time around PortElizabeth.
I'd spent a lot of time aroundCape Town Game Reserves, the
Garden Route, but not much timearound Port Elizabeth.
And that side, that west sideof PE, is absolutely beautiful.
I can't recommend that racehighly enough.
I loved it.
So yeah, for those people whohaven't raced it Except for wind
last year, oh, the wind, jesus,yes, the wind is something else
.
And I think also the localswere telling me that if the swim

(01:25:30):
had started 15 minutes laterthan it did, they'd have cut it
short again because it was thewind.

The swim was quite challenging, but but I've
done it in polar conditions, um,and bad conditions like.
Anyways, it's an incrediblerace.

Yeah, it's an incredible race yeah, but to
steal your daughter's words,nobody said it was going to be
easy, brilliant, amazing, thankyou so much, so much, thank you
best place to find richard is athis website, which is
iamrichardwrightcom, and that'sright with a w.
You'll find there his socialmedia links, uh, details about
his keynote talks and about howto buy his book.

(01:26:07):
So go check out.
I am richardwrightcom.
So what did you make of theconversation with Richard Wright
?

well, I think it makes you believe that actually
you can pretty much achieveanything.
You know, the power of yourliterally with him, the power of
your mind or your brain yeah,just, I think, just unreal.
I think it really made me think, not just during the
conversation but also afterwards, how it's very easy to you know

(01:26:37):
make excuses for not doingsomething, whether that's in
business, whether it's in sport,whether it's with your family,
making time for yourself,because he really has made the
most of what he can out of thiscancer diagnosis, and I just
yeah, the story is well, notjust the story like what it
actually means and what he'steaching other people is is just
amazing it is.

It's brilliant.
Funny enough, I was chatting tosomebody just just now who's a,
like world champion cyclist uh,actually a future guest for the
podcast, but we'll come back tothat and we were just I was
just saying you know it actually, just I shared the story of
Richard with him because, um, itis an incredible story but what
it is is incredibledetermination, and I think what

(01:27:20):
I took from it was that ourendurance sport has given him an
incredible opportunity tosurvive against, like, a
terminal cancer four times,terminal diagnosis four times.
He's beaten that and it's bothhis mindset that he's gained
from endurance sport and hisphysiology.

(01:27:40):
So I think that's fascinatingand it's just.
I mean, if ever, if there'sanyone listening to this going
should I or shouldn't I go intoendurance sport?
I hope that that has just beentested.
I mean, it's just helped him inso many ways, isn't it?
It's, it's unbelievable.
So I thought it was and therewas a lot of stuff that I
thought we were, you know, verymuch on the same page as um, you

(01:28:02):
know, like the goal setting andand um, and the power of that
and um, yeah, yeah, just justreally brilliant.

I think I think also for me you know I'm very
much evidence-based researchbacks and I think you know there
isn't a lot of research aroundathletes in illness.
So you know he was talkingabout actually, you know how
that anger that came across of,like how dare you tell me that
I've just got six months to live?
Like, do you know what myphysical shape, like body, I'm

(01:28:32):
in and how I can be resilient?
And I think it's just reallyinteresting that that power of
your you know resilience aboutgetting through things and also
the how, how your body responds.
Because, as an athlete, howdoes your body respond during
cancer treatment?
You know how does your bodyrespond during cancer treatment.
You know how does your bodyrespond in all these different
illnesses, um, and there justisn't that research and I think

(01:28:55):
you know him describing hisjourney and what he's been able
to get through.
Um, and also I hope it reallyencourages people that actually,
although you know doing anendurance sport is really hard
work, you know some of theseother factors.
Actually, if you do get anillness, how much you're kind of
future-proofing your bodypotentially um as well.

Yeah, no, I agree and I love the fact that
when he was, when he's in the inthe run part of the well, he
probably does it on the bike aswell, but when he's on the run
of the iron man and you knowhe's struggling he keeps saying
I'm feeling good at feelingstrong, feeling good, I'm
feeling strong.
Well, that was really brilliantin terms of race strategy, but

(01:29:34):
also strategy for life, justkind of like yeah, I'm feeling
and yeah, and I love.
I love the fact that he keptreiterating the fact that his
daughter said it was never meantto be easy.
I thought that was beautiful.
That's really really lovely.
Um and um, yeah, so I think.
And the other thing that, theother piece of advice that he
gave that I thought wasbrilliant was you can only be a

(01:29:55):
victim once.
After that, you're a volunteer.
Yeah, that's god, that's really, it's really powerful, isn't it
?
Yes, you can be a victim whenyou're told you've got cancer
and the shit's hit the fan andeverything's bad, but after that
it's up to then you how youdeal with it, um, mentally and
physically.
So I think that's you know, andultimately, cancer beats some

(01:30:17):
of the strongest people on theplanet, but what you're trying
to do is you're trying to stackyour odds in your favor so that
you're in the best shapepossible to deal with something,
whatever life throws at you.
So I think that's that's reallypowerful.

I think that's you know.
One thing that I always try andget across to clients is you
know people talk about havingmedical insurance.
I know he's obviously not basedin the UK but where medical
insurance a lot of people inother countries have.
But you know medical insurancehelps you when you're ill.
Actually, if you can futureproof your body by doing
everything you can right nowthat actually potentially in the

(01:30:53):
future you're in a much betterposition to be able to to deal
with that.
Put endurance sport on top ofthat and you've got this amazing
resilient mindset.
And I think he talked about, um, you know that actually he
looked at treatment like helooked at training, you know,
looking at that kind of plan ofwhen he had to be in, what that
was going to involve and justgetting through like each

(01:31:13):
treatment session.
Um, yeah, I just thought it wasa great way to approach it yeah
, I agree, and I think that'sexactly.

if you read lance armstrong's book uh, his
first book um, now, I know partof that would be have to be
classed as being in the fictionsection, um, but but actually
the cancer part of the journeyis unbelievable and it is, and I
used to recommend that book somuch.
It's difficult now because youjust don't know what to believe.
But, like, that guy was given atiny chance of living but he,

(01:31:44):
he went about his cancertreatment in the same way as he
went about, you know, themarginal gains on the bike.
It was like, right, okay, I'mgoing to do everything I can to
beat this.
Um, so I think it's um, it'sincredible.
Um, I mentioned in I love thething that we were talking about
in terms of goal setting andbeing somebody's hero, and
actually I mentioned in when wewere interviewing Richard that

(01:32:15):
I'd just finished delivering aworkshop where we talked about
being somebody's hero.
If anyone wants to get that towatch that workshop, it's called
the Limitless Life Workshop.
It's on the Trusted Team'swebsite.
So if you go to thetrustedteamyou can just watch that as an
evergreen workshop.
It's a proper three-hourworkshop that will take you
through the goal-setting process, but it's, it's.

you know, we get amazing feedback for that
workshop it's a great one todive into as well in terms of
you know how, how to goal set,especially this this time of the
year as well, and you know alsoaround purpose.
He brought up purpose and Iknow that is something that you
often speak about when you'retalking about you know meeting
goals and making goals well,ultimately it goes back to simon

(01:32:48):
sinek, isn't it?

you've got to start with why.
If you don't know why it'simportant, you'll never bother
to achieve it.
So, yeah, and it's the samesame whether it's your marketing
in business or whether it'syour goal setting it's.
It's an incredibly importantprinciple and I think I think
richard summed that upbrilliantly, but I also thought
it was lovely that he waswilling to be as vulnerable as
he was and share as much as hedid.

(01:33:09):
So, um, I think it's just justa great, great interview,
inspiring guy and, uh, hopefullyI'll we'll get to meet him in
person at some point, but, um,yeah, for great, great interview
and for everyone at home, keepon training if you want us to
keep getting amazing guests ontothe Business of Endurance

(01:33:30):
podcast.
We don't ask for you to pay forus.
We don't ask for patronage.
All we ask for is that yousubscribe to the podcast,
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Give us a five-star ratingbecause it shows us you care and
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something like that, but wereally do appreciate it and it

(01:33:52):
will help us to continue todeliver amazing guests on what
we hope you find to be anamazing podcast.
Thanks very much.

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How Richard Wright is Surviving Cancer with Endurance and Purpose

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