October 9, 2024 • 26 mins
Hosts Charlie Redding and Claire Fudge wrap up the seventh season of The Business of Endurance. They reflect on a successful season of powerful conversations, highlighting 3 key guests:
- Lewis Robling
- Rico Bogan
- Andrea Henkel Burke
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
I'm Charlie.
Redding and I'm Claire Fudgewelcome to the business of
endurance.
Wow, the end of another seasonof the business of endurance
podcast, season seven.
We've had incredible guests,some inspirations, educations,
phenomenal stories, phenomenalathletes.
They've been like drinking froma fire hydrant the amount of
(00:27):
ideas and inspiration we'vereceived.
The next two episodes of theBusiness of Endurance, season 7,
were part one and part two,with Lewis Roebling, who came
from a professional rugbybackground and transitioned into
ultra running.
What did you make of thoseepisodes, claire?
Speaker 2 (00:45):
We gained so much from that episode it became two
episodes.
That shows how much informationand takeaways there were.
The real shining part is hismental health journey.
He was a professional rugbyplayer and got support from the
Big Moose charity.
We highlighted the lack ofmental health support in
professional sports and I thinkagain that for me is really
(01:08):
interesting working particularlywith some young performance
Olympic potential athletes.
Where is this mental health?
I think that made me askquestions.
For the athletes I'm workingwith, it was very interesting to
see how he was able totransition into ultra running
from rugby, but also what hesaid about the almost kind of
(01:29):
like.
You know that was therapeuticin nature itself, but was he
running from himself as well?
What about for you from eitherthe first or the second episode?
Speaker 1 (01:36):
You're right, it was worth two episodes because there
was so much great content.
I thought it was reallyinteresting the mental struggles
he had on retiring.
We only touched on it a littlebit and I don't think we delved
into it as deeply because he wasuneasy talking about it.
He doesn't feel like he reachedhis potential on the rugby
field for a number of reasons,but mental health is part of
(01:57):
that.
And then the mental healthchallenges of leaving that sport
, how the combination of ultrarunning and big moves really
helped him in.
I see a lot of people gothrough retirement and
retirement from any job and manyof them struggle from a mental
health point of view becausesuddenly they've lost their
purpose.
The same happens in sportsmen.
(02:18):
I know Leon Lloyd, who used toplay for England and Leicester
Tigers, talks a lot about it.
So I thought that was a reallyinteresting conversation and I
think let's dive into a snippetof Lewis talking about how Big
Moose helped him with his mentalhealth challenges.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
I proved so many things to myself.
I proved that I was capable.
Yet when I came back home and Isat at my desk the next day,
what I changed?
Nothing had changed.
I'd run a race like well done,you've completed 125 kilometers.
Well, what are you actuallydone about your life?
(02:58):
Nothing, and that I I didn't.
I didn't know then what to dowith these feelings.
I didn't know how to to dealwith it.
Like I just done this amazingthing, yet I feel even worse
about myself.
I've just proved I can do thesethings, yet Nothing's changed.
What does that say about me?
Um, and so the first time Ifinished an ultra marathon, I
(03:22):
was kind of lost in that periodafter a race, because I I didn't
have the tools to be able touse what I just learned and
apply it, and that's wherethings got a little bit low, to
the point where I then needed toreach out for help, and I'm
just so grateful to Big Moose.
Big Moose, the charity thatJeff Smith and Chloe were there
to pick me up, which was then.
(03:45):
That was probably the hardestthing.
September 2020 was my firstexperience and I felt like I'd
opened my eyes to a new worldand I loved it.
So, even though it was like,even though it broke me in every
single way, I didn't run foreight weeks afterwards.
I I knew there and then that Iwanted this to be a part of my
life because of what I gainedfrom it.
And ultimately, after thatevent, um, I reached out for
(04:10):
help with big moose and, and Irealized, well, but with that
help then helped me reframe howI wanted to use ultra marathons,
moving forward, um, I knew mylife wasn't in a great state, um
, so, with the support of thetherapist, graham um, from big
moose, I was able to reframe howI saw ultra running and,
instead of running away becausethat's ultimately what I was
doing was running.
All that time I had noawareness as to why I was doing
it, um, but what the therapyhelped me do was was gain that
(04:33):
self-awareness and realize I'veactually I've been running away
from these feelings.
So how can I use running,something that I love, something
that I know that I've alwaysloved and exercise and movement?
How can I use it to movetowards these challenges?
How can I use running as a wayto learn more about myself
instead of trying to turn downthe noise on these voices?
Um, so ultimately, 2021 becameum a year for me.
(04:55):
Um, I had the opportunity to runanother um 125k in scotland
with ultra x in the may and thenI I ran my first 250k race in
wales in the august and that wasthe first time ultra x were
doing a race in wales and theyasked me to be a part of it
because I'm a welshie andwhatnot.
And that August and that wasthe first time Ultra X were
doing a race in Wales and theyasked me to be a part of it
because I'm a Welshie andwhatnot, and that was, and that
was that was a really specialrace as well.
That was kind of the first timein in my career quote-unquote
(05:18):
as an ultra runner that I nolonger felt the need to prove
myself to anyone, which was akey moment in my development as
well.
It was like I'd finally taken abit of a ah, okay, I'm good,
now I don't need to.
I don't feel the need to provemyself to anyone else.
So at that point and also whatwas happening alongside that,
with the therapy, with therunning, this, this new um
(05:41):
mindset towards how it can helpme Opportunities were arising in
life.
Um, were arising in life.
Um, I'd got a job working for adifferent company.
I was doing my ultra runningqualifications.
Um, I ended up selling mycoconut ball business because it
was no longer serving me and Istopped holding onto it.
Um, so lots of change washappening.
Outside of running, alongsidethe running, that was helping me
in other ways, um.
(06:02):
And then in the 2021, um, I wantto say, I was let go from my
job.
Um, I was there for threemonths.
I was let go, but ultimatelythat was the catalyst for me to
then start my coaching.
And the coaching started, wentreally well, and I was at a
point in my life where I felt,you know, I'm ready, I'm strong
enough to be able to give backto Big Moose in the way they
gave to me, and I wanted to dosomething special.
(06:23):
And it was kind of the start ofpeople doing kind of juggle and
challenges.
Since then, everyone's doingjuggle and challenges.
It's amazing, it's a crazyspace right now, this world of
ultra running.
It's really inspiring.
But my challenge was and I wentto Ultra X because they were
there for me as well throughoutthe whole time and I said to
them has anyone ever ran allfive of your 250K races before?
(06:45):
And they said, no, that's silly, why would anyone want, can I
try?
So they then agreed to.
I explained I was doing it forBig Moose and it was all going
to be for charity and I wantedto raise £25,000, which is
probably why they agreed tokindly give me the race entries.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
The next episode of season seven of Business
Endurance was with rising startriathlete Rico Bogan.
What did you make of thatepisode, Claire?
Speaker 2 (07:17):
It was great to interview a much younger athlete
.
I'm not suggesting all ourguests are old, but it was good
to interview someone with freshenthusiasm in the sport, hearing
about how in Germany he'd grownup within sport and how that's
different from the UK as well.
So that was interesting.
And I think one of the otherareas was around.
We've talked quite a lot toguests, haven't we?
(07:38):
About sponsorship and actuallyhow difficult that's been,
particularly after COVID andthat changing landscape of how
businesses are working or notworking with athletes.
So it was really interestinghow he's trying to create
relationships with businessesthat he wants to work with.
What came across in particularfor you from that interview?
Speaker 1 (07:56):
I thought for a young guy he just got his head really
well screwed on.
He was really sensible, focused.
I loved where he mentionedabout the fact that he could go
hang out with his grandparents.
He's just a really groundedindividual.
It's interesting this seasonfeels like we've talked a bit
about the US collegiate system,we've talked about the German
(08:17):
system and actually it shines alight on how different that is
to the UK system and I suspectfor elite athletes there is an
amazing system there for GB.
But I do wonder whether we'remissing some massive tricks at a
more basic level and aschooling level compared to.
Obviously we're just recordingthis on the back of the paris
(08:40):
olympics.
Perhaps it isn't as bad as wethink.
It feels like this conversationhighlighted a difference in
approaches and I wonder how thatplays out.
I think rico bogan was abrilliant interview, really
switched on athlete.
It was interesting chattingabout his relationship with q
cycles and how his long-termgoals are shaping up.
So let's hear a little bit of asnippet about rico bogan when
(09:03):
he won the ironman worldchampionships or the 70.3 world
championships at such a youngage I'm the youngest 70.3
ironman world champion, so Istarted as a young kid in a
sports family.
Speaker 4 (09:19):
So my parents are working but they didn't do sport
as a hobby and so they took uson every running competition or
triathlon competition in thearea around Leipzig.
It's great because as a childyou have these competitions and
can focus on this competitionand that's not so easy to do in
(09:40):
other competitions.
That's very great to get pointsfor the Olympic ranking.
We took the decision to go morein the middle stance and
winning the world championstitle thing.
Nobody expected it for me.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
I didn't expect it too, and it was a really stacked
field as well.
You beat a lot of the very topnames.
Tell us a bit more about thatwin.
Tell us what happened.
How did you feel before therace, how did you feel during
the race and at what point didyou think I've got this in the
bag?
How did that feel?
Speaker 4 (10:14):
It was a little bit, yeah, 50, 50, 50 chance if I'm
responding good on the altitudeor not, because it was the first
time.
But yeah, and also in the ageyou came, I didn't feel that
good at the end last week,although I read that for three
weeks in the last week.
I was really tired and thought,oh, that's not good, I'm not at
my highest level.
(10:34):
I came down 11 days before therace and it got better day by
day and yeah, then I was there.
I think on Wednesday I was inFinland and the last brick
session before the race I feltvery good.
So, there that you're.
I was really excited before therace and then I was out of the
(10:58):
water in third or fourth place,but on the bike I was all time
with the front.
We had at the beginning a gapwith just three men this is
nichelag and matis machia and Iwas there and we had a gap
already and I thought, yeah,here's where I want to be, I, I
want to be at the front.
And then after 50 or 60kilometers I thought, yeah, my
(11:20):
legs are not that fresh anymoreand, yeah, a little bit tired.
But yeah, at the end it was alittle bit easier and so I got
from the bike and third positionand then, yeah, my legs were
new again, I started to run andinstead I I had good cadence and
rhythm and there was already myparents was there, the
(11:43):
sidelines she had.
Yeah, it looks so good.
And yeah, after three kilometerI could close the 30 seconds
gap and I went in front of therace and, you know, in first
place and, yeah, this was reallyamazing and yeah, the finish
line was just goosebumps and,yeah, tears of joy and yeah,
(12:08):
this was amazing because, yeah,it was a long way my board
career started very early andyeah, everything came down there
and yeah, it was unbelievable.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Yeah it was absolutely fantastic.
I followed you under two cyclesactually all day.
Yeah, it was fantastic to seeyou finishing and hear the
excitement.
So yeah, so absolutelyfantastic, win.
You've got this backgroundcoming from swimming at a young
age and then into 70.3 distance.
Is there anything in particularthat you've changed strategy
wise in 70.3 racing that youfeel is monumental or really
(12:43):
made a difference?
Speaker 4 (12:44):
yeah, preparation for 70.3 is different to shorter
descents.
You have to couple, load more.
I would say this was somethingdifferent.
And also the nutrition is muchmore important.
And the middle stance, sprinterstance because there's just one
hour and you have a bottle onthe bike and there you have
maybe 30 grams of carbs in thebottle.
(13:05):
But if you don't get it in,then it's also not so important.
But for middle stance you haveto train the nutrition.
Then, with the stomach, nothinggets out.
Nothing gets out again and so,yeah, this was something new and
yeah, with my coach, yeah, wetried to talk about this and
trying to train this and andtraining.
(13:27):
So that's.
I think that's the mostdifferent to the shortest
distance and yeah, so I got itvery fast with the nutrition,
though already in the first raceit was okay.
And yeah, on the running I havesometimes problems to get carbs
in I, me and my coach doingthis speed stuff and all the
(13:52):
longer stuff, so he makes itvery good.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
You've mentioned your coach a couple of times already
and I think actually you shareyour coach with claire and
claire also coached by joe.
Given that you're very early inyour career, how did you go
about picking your coach?
What did you look for in acoach?
What was it about joe that youfelt was a good fit?
Speaker 4 (14:12):
yeah, for me it's important to have a good
relationship to the coach and itwas not just what is on the
training plan, so I'm askingvery many questions or I want to
know why we are doing this.
So that's very important for methat I can give my.
Is it okay if I ask questions?
And so that's what I think it'svery important in our
(14:40):
relationship that he isadjustable.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
So the next episode of season seven with Andrea
Burke, known as Andrea Henkel.
What did you make of theinterview with Andrea Claire?
Speaker 2 (14:52):
First of all, it's a new sport that I only watch in
the Winter Olympics.
So when I say it's a new sport,it's new to me, as in I've
never done it.
It looks really fast, furiousand exciting to do.
So it was great to interview anathlete from winter sports,
because we often don't have that.
So, first of all, that wasbrilliant.
And there was a lot of ourquestions weren't there in terms
(15:15):
of what does training look like?
What does a race look like?
We learned about the world cupseries and the olympics, how
important the world cup is tothose winter athletes in terms
of her consistency andconsistently being able to
perform at a high level.
And we've talked before aboutdifferent countries.
You were talking recently aboutamerica and germ Germany and
(15:36):
how they bring up athletes inthe world of sports, and I think
this is another example.
Andrea talked about East Berlinand how they all had to do
three sports that they all hadto do compulsory, so that, to me
, is really interesting.
Again, there's this culture ofdoing sports, being involved and
, I think, all those things thatit teaches you at a young age
(15:57):
in terms of what sport teachesyou at a young age.
So it was fascinating insightand I know, in particular for
you, you were really interestedby the kind of openness around
her answering some questionsaround doping from other people
involved in the Olympics.
So what did you think of herresponses?
Speaker 1 (16:16):
It was brilliant.
She was willing to have an openconversation about that,
because quite often people weinterview say I'll talk about
anything except doping in sport,few and far between.
Obviously, the Sharon Davisepisode stands out as somebody
that was very keen to speak outabout that and the issue around
transgender in sport and andactually it's cost Sharon a lot
(16:38):
of money over her career becausethen people run away from her
because she's willing to talkabout that stuff.
And so it was.
Yes, I thought that was areally interesting part of
Andrea's interview wasunderstanding the impact on the
athlete, not just at the timewhere they're taking drugs, but
even if they get away with it,the long-term health impacts of
doping in sports.
(16:58):
So I thought that was a reallyinteresting part of the
conversation.
And the other interesting partof the conversation I really
enjoyed was the piece aroundlong COVID, because she's
obviously developed a program tohelp people that are suffering
from long COVID.
But what I loved about it wasthe sort of balanced approach of
that.
There was some nutrition, therewas some sleep, there was some
yoga.
This isn't just a training planfor long COVID, is it?
(17:20):
This is a training plan forlife and health and success and
everything else.
So I think let's dive into asnippet of the conversation that
we had with Andrea around herlong COVID treatment.
Speaker 5 (17:35):
COVID treatment.
So we have a program which is a16 program, like 12 units, and
they work people through atfirst like understanding what's
going on in their body, becausejust this understanding part is
already very helpful.
We call it in psychoneurology,we call it deep learning, which
helps to already understand, bealso more likely to do this
(17:58):
little exercise because theydon't take forever and that's
like by purpose, because, again,like some people with long
COVID, they cannot do much andthen it cannot take an hour a
day to use some tools to do so.
We do like nervous systemalignment with, like feet,
breath work, but also eyeexercises, connected tissue
(18:19):
stretches, like specificstretches to open up the body so
that things can flow again andto give again the brain like a
safety that feels more, that canlike know what's going on in
the environment, and then itthen it feels safer.
(18:41):
It's like people don't want togo out somewhere because it's
unsafe.
And then it's like the fightand flight reaction and then
it's like having tools whichcalm the system or regulate the
system.
That's always calming.
It's also sometimes regulated.
So we do also some mobilitywork and stretches and put it
(19:03):
into like a sequence, likemuscle relaxation, using your
body, basically to also calmbrain and then also diet is a
big aspect, like it's usingextra stressors for the body and
using like really helpfulanti-inflammatory foods we have
like sorry, I was gonna say canyou give me some examples on the
(19:26):
nutrition side?
Speaker 1 (19:27):
I'm guessing that claire was about to ask the same
question, because that would beher nature.
Um, but what's um?
Yeah, so what?
What sort of things are youadvising people to do on the
nutrition, specifically to helpthem with long COVID?
Speaker 5 (19:43):
Yeah, we work with what to eat, so basically
anti-inflammatory foods, a lotof vegetables and these things
and also more of those Isometimes call it vegan with
chicken and fish and eggs.
This is not specific, but it'slike very broad.
But we also want to keep itsimple.
(20:05):
It has to be doable, and whento eat matters, because when we
eat constantly it triggers theimmune system.
We want to try to not eatconstantly, but having like
eating cranks in between meals.
And then also what we hear alot, what Katie, my business
(20:26):
partner, experienced herself.
It's like these cravings.
And then when we have cravingsbecause of lack of energy, like
you really grab something, it'sjust around the corner.
So we help with like havingthat, so like just taking half
an avocado and eat instead likesomething which doesn't spike
(20:47):
the blood sugar.
So we like go into this topic.
Okay, brilliant, high trend.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
And before we move on , because I'm just intrigued
what results have you seen fromthis work?
How much success are yougetting with this and helping
people that have been sufferingwith long COVID?
Speaker 5 (21:12):
Yeah, so far we had good success.
Some feel better like 10 daysand then, but then of course it
continues.
It's just like getting to likelike getting like a little bit
foundation, in that they'recapable of getting to the next
step, but then we would goalready to like the last step
(21:34):
and the foundation is built sokind of like sports, kind of
what we do.
It like endurance trainingfirst, before you put on the
next level and we are, theprogram is pulled together and
it's 60 weeks.
It's not short but it's wethink it's like easy to.
(21:55):
It has to be also like easy todo, stick with it and to want to
be stick with it and likehaving like some precise in the
front end.
It's also more likely to likekeep going and it's like simple
and easy to put into, like abusy schedule.
But we also realized, and peoplefeel better after a while,
(22:16):
they're like let go a little bit, this little tool and then
they're like comes up and thenit's like it's kind of like open
mind.
I know we want to do this andit's like great, like called it,
like managing the symptoms andand also having like an eye work
or press real quick.
You don't need a tool with it.
(22:37):
So like just knowing, also withlike self-assessment tools,
that people actually find whatmobility exercise works best and
helps me the most, then can puttogether their own toolkit that
they can take anywhere.
And that's for us important andwe had for the ones who were
(23:02):
the program.
Then suddenly everyone got likesomehow like out of the world.
I was active again and it wasreally fun to see, and then
everyone came back okay, we needto like do this, still do this,
and it's in the part of theroutine and that's the whole
goal, like to have it as aroutine to then go from here to
here and then other things andsplits, use for like even it
(23:26):
doesn't have to do anything withlong core and that they used to
be able to perform better likethis.
Little things like doing weirdeye, foot movements usually
don't do just to trigger thebrain, to like create more
connection.
So it's also not just like okay, now I'm good, now I don't have
a use for this anymore.
(23:47):
No, it's like there's a use forlike the next level and the
next level I'm just like keepingup if you want us to keep
getting amazing guests onto thebusiness of endurance podcast.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
We don't ask you to pay for us.
We don't ask for patronage.
All we ask for is that yousubscribe to the podcast,
ideally on Apple.
Give us a five-star ratingbecause it shows us you care and
, if you've got time, leave us acomment.
One word is fine, somethinglike inspiring or amazing or
something like that, but wereally do appreciate it and it
(24:19):
will help us to continue todeliver amazing guests on what
we hope you find to be anamazing podcast.
Thanks very much and Chloe frombig moves charity, we featured
in episode one of season sevenmade such a great impact on the
both of us, we decided to makethem our charity one of season
seven made such a great impacton the both of us, we decided to
(24:40):
make them our charity sponsorfor season seven.
Now, they really touched me inthe sense that I lost my
brother-in-law to suicide inWales and these guys are working
their socks off to help preventsituations like that.
Claire, why did Jeff and Chloereally make an impact on you?
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Coming from a background in clinical nutrition
and working in mental health,to me also it hit a spot in
terms of the charity and howthey are building therapy to
help support people with mentalhealth difficulties, and they've
saved over 50 lives now andalready met their first target
of a million and their newtarget, 15 million, that they're
trying to get to.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
It's absolutely incredible and 15 million is a
huge target they've setthemselves, but they're speeding
up help that people indesperately in need get, and
this help is needed more thanever and I know how problematic
mental health issues are intoday's world.
So if you think you can helpBig Moose Charity and they're
particularly looking forcorporate partners to help them
(25:44):
raise that 15 million, if youthink you can help them or link
them into a company that canhelp them, the best place to go
to is bigmoosecharityco, or youcan find them on Instagram as
bigmoosecharity, or you can evenemail Jeff at jeffatbigmooseco.
I'm Charlie.
Redding and I'm Claire Fudgewelcome to the business of
endurance.
Wow, the end of another seasonof the business of endurance
podcast, season seven.
We've had incredible guests,some inspirations, educations,
phenomenal stories, phenomenalathletes.
They've been like drinking froma fire hydrant the amount of
(00:27):
ideas and inspiration we'vereceived.
The next two episodes of theBusiness of Endurance, season 7,
were part one and part two,with Lewis Roebling, who came
from a professional rugbybackground and transitioned into
ultra running.
What did you make of thoseepisodes, claire?
Speaker 2 (00:45):
We gained so much from that episode it became two
episodes.
That shows how much informationand takeaways there were.
The real shining part is hismental health journey.
He was a professional rugbyplayer and got support from the
Big Moose charity.
We highlighted the lack ofmental health support in
professional sports and I thinkagain that for me is really
(01:08):
interesting working particularlywith some young performance
Olympic potential athletes.
Where is this mental health?
I think that made me askquestions.
For the athletes I'm workingwith, it was very interesting to
see how he was able totransition into ultra running
from rugby, but also what hesaid about the almost kind of
(01:29):
like.
You know that was therapeuticin nature itself, but was he
running from himself as well?
What about for you from eitherthe first or the second episode?
Speaker 1 (01:36):
You're right, it was worth two episodes because there
was so much great content.
I thought it was reallyinteresting the mental struggles
he had on retiring.
We only touched on it a littlebit and I don't think we delved
into it as deeply because he wasuneasy talking about it.
He doesn't feel like he reachedhis potential on the rugby
field for a number of reasons,but mental health is part of
(01:57):
that.
And then the mental healthchallenges of leaving that sport
, how the combination of ultrarunning and big moves really
helped him in.
I see a lot of people gothrough retirement and
retirement from any job and manyof them struggle from a mental
health point of view becausesuddenly they've lost their
purpose.
The same happens in sportsmen.
(02:18):
I know Leon Lloyd, who used toplay for England and Leicester
Tigers, talks a lot about it.
So I thought that was a reallyinteresting conversation and I
think let's dive into a snippetof Lewis talking about how Big
Moose helped him with his mentalhealth challenges.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
I proved so many things to myself.
I proved that I was capable.
Yet when I came back home and Isat at my desk the next day,
what I changed?
Nothing had changed.
I'd run a race like well done,you've completed 125 kilometers.
Well, what are you actuallydone about your life?
(02:58):
Nothing, and that I I didn't.
I didn't know then what to dowith these feelings.
I didn't know how to to dealwith it.
Like I just done this amazingthing, yet I feel even worse
about myself.
I've just proved I can do thesethings, yet Nothing's changed.
What does that say about me?
Um, and so the first time Ifinished an ultra marathon, I
(03:22):
was kind of lost in that periodafter a race, because I I didn't
have the tools to be able touse what I just learned and
apply it, and that's wherethings got a little bit low, to
the point where I then needed toreach out for help, and I'm
just so grateful to Big Moose.
Big Moose, the charity thatJeff Smith and Chloe were there
to pick me up, which was then.
(03:45):
That was probably the hardestthing.
September 2020 was my firstexperience and I felt like I'd
opened my eyes to a new worldand I loved it.
So, even though it was like,even though it broke me in every
single way, I didn't run foreight weeks afterwards.
I I knew there and then that Iwanted this to be a part of my
life because of what I gainedfrom it.
And ultimately, after thatevent, um, I reached out for
(04:10):
help with big moose and, and Irealized, well, but with that
help then helped me reframe howI wanted to use ultra marathons,
moving forward, um, I knew mylife wasn't in a great state, um
, so, with the support of thetherapist, graham um, from big
moose, I was able to reframe howI saw ultra running and,
instead of running away becausethat's ultimately what I was
doing was running.
All that time I had noawareness as to why I was doing
it, um, but what the therapyhelped me do was was gain that
(04:33):
self-awareness and realize I'veactually I've been running away
from these feelings.
So how can I use running,something that I love, something
that I know that I've alwaysloved and exercise and movement?
How can I use it to movetowards these challenges?
How can I use running as a wayto learn more about myself
instead of trying to turn downthe noise on these voices?
Um, so ultimately, 2021 becameum a year for me.
(04:55):
Um, I had the opportunity to runanother um 125k in scotland
with ultra x in the may and thenI I ran my first 250k race in
wales in the august and that wasthe first time ultra x were
doing a race in wales and theyasked me to be a part of it
because I'm a welshie andwhatnot.
And that August and that wasthe first time Ultra X were
doing a race in Wales and theyasked me to be a part of it
because I'm a Welshie andwhatnot, and that was, and that
was that was a really specialrace as well.
That was kind of the first timein in my career quote-unquote
(05:18):
as an ultra runner that I nolonger felt the need to prove
myself to anyone, which was akey moment in my development as
well.
It was like I'd finally taken abit of a ah, okay, I'm good,
now I don't need to.
I don't feel the need to provemyself to anyone else.
So at that point and also whatwas happening alongside that,
with the therapy, with therunning, this, this new um
(05:41):
mindset towards how it can helpme Opportunities were arising in
life.
Um, were arising in life.
Um, I'd got a job working for adifferent company.
I was doing my ultra runningqualifications.
Um, I ended up selling mycoconut ball business because it
was no longer serving me and Istopped holding onto it.
Um, so lots of change washappening.
Outside of running, alongsidethe running, that was helping me
in other ways, um.
(06:02):
And then in the 2021, um, I wantto say, I was let go from my
job.
Um, I was there for threemonths.
I was let go, but ultimatelythat was the catalyst for me to
then start my coaching.
And the coaching started, wentreally well, and I was at a
point in my life where I felt,you know, I'm ready, I'm strong
enough to be able to give backto Big Moose in the way they
gave to me, and I wanted to dosomething special.
(06:23):
And it was kind of the start ofpeople doing kind of juggle and
challenges.
Since then, everyone's doingjuggle and challenges.
It's amazing, it's a crazyspace right now, this world of
ultra running.
It's really inspiring.
But my challenge was and I wentto Ultra X because they were
there for me as well throughoutthe whole time and I said to
them has anyone ever ran allfive of your 250K races before?
(06:45):
And they said, no, that's silly, why would anyone want, can I
try?
So they then agreed to.
I explained I was doing it forBig Moose and it was all going
to be for charity and I wantedto raise £25,000, which is
probably why they agreed tokindly give me the race entries.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
The next episode of season seven of Business
Endurance was with rising startriathlete Rico Bogan.
What did you make of thatepisode, Claire?
Speaker 2 (07:17):
It was great to interview a much younger athlete
.
I'm not suggesting all ourguests are old, but it was good
to interview someone with freshenthusiasm in the sport, hearing
about how in Germany he'd grownup within sport and how that's
different from the UK as well.
So that was interesting.
And I think one of the otherareas was around.
We've talked quite a lot toguests, haven't we?
(07:38):
About sponsorship and actuallyhow difficult that's been,
particularly after COVID andthat changing landscape of how
businesses are working or notworking with athletes.
So it was really interestinghow he's trying to create
relationships with businessesthat he wants to work with.
What came across in particularfor you from that interview?
Speaker 1 (07:56):
I thought for a young guy he just got his head really
well screwed on.
He was really sensible, focused.
I loved where he mentionedabout the fact that he could go
hang out with his grandparents.
He's just a really groundedindividual.
It's interesting this seasonfeels like we've talked a bit
about the US collegiate system,we've talked about the German
(08:17):
system and actually it shines alight on how different that is
to the UK system and I suspectfor elite athletes there is an
amazing system there for GB.
But I do wonder whether we'remissing some massive tricks at a
more basic level and aschooling level compared to.
Obviously we're just recordingthis on the back of the paris
(08:40):
olympics.
Perhaps it isn't as bad as wethink.
It feels like this conversationhighlighted a difference in
approaches and I wonder how thatplays out.
I think rico bogan was abrilliant interview, really
switched on athlete.
It was interesting chattingabout his relationship with q
cycles and how his long-termgoals are shaping up.
So let's hear a little bit of asnippet about rico bogan when
(09:03):
he won the ironman worldchampionships or the 70.3 world
championships at such a youngage I'm the youngest 70.3
ironman world champion, so Istarted as a young kid in a
sports family.
Speaker 4 (09:19):
So my parents are working but they didn't do sport
as a hobby and so they took uson every running competition or
triathlon competition in thearea around Leipzig.
It's great because as a childyou have these competitions and
can focus on this competitionand that's not so easy to do in
(09:40):
other competitions.
That's very great to get pointsfor the Olympic ranking.
We took the decision to go morein the middle stance and
winning the world championstitle thing.
Nobody expected it for me.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
I didn't expect it too, and it was a really stacked
field as well.
You beat a lot of the very topnames.
Tell us a bit more about thatwin.
Tell us what happened.
How did you feel before therace, how did you feel during
the race and at what point didyou think I've got this in the
bag?
How did that feel?
Speaker 4 (10:14):
It was a little bit, yeah, 50, 50, 50 chance if I'm
responding good on the altitudeor not, because it was the first
time.
But yeah, and also in the ageyou came, I didn't feel that
good at the end last week,although I read that for three
weeks in the last week.
I was really tired and thought,oh, that's not good, I'm not at
my highest level.
(10:34):
I came down 11 days before therace and it got better day by
day and yeah, then I was there.
I think on Wednesday I was inFinland and the last brick
session before the race I feltvery good.
So, there that you're.
I was really excited before therace and then I was out of the
(10:58):
water in third or fourth place,but on the bike I was all time
with the front.
We had at the beginning a gapwith just three men this is
nichelag and matis machia and Iwas there and we had a gap
already and I thought, yeah,here's where I want to be, I, I
want to be at the front.
And then after 50 or 60kilometers I thought, yeah, my
(11:20):
legs are not that fresh anymoreand, yeah, a little bit tired.
But yeah, at the end it was alittle bit easier and so I got
from the bike and third positionand then, yeah, my legs were
new again, I started to run andinstead I I had good cadence and
rhythm and there was already myparents was there, the
(11:43):
sidelines she had.
Yeah, it looks so good.
And yeah, after three kilometerI could close the 30 seconds
gap and I went in front of therace and, you know, in first
place and, yeah, this was reallyamazing and yeah, the finish
line was just goosebumps and,yeah, tears of joy and yeah,
(12:08):
this was amazing because, yeah,it was a long way my board
career started very early andyeah, everything came down there
and yeah, it was unbelievable.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Yeah it was absolutely fantastic.
I followed you under two cyclesactually all day.
Yeah, it was fantastic to seeyou finishing and hear the
excitement.
So yeah, so absolutelyfantastic, win.
You've got this backgroundcoming from swimming at a young
age and then into 70.3 distance.
Is there anything in particularthat you've changed strategy
wise in 70.3 racing that youfeel is monumental or really
(12:43):
made a difference?
Speaker 4 (12:44):
yeah, preparation for 70.3 is different to shorter
descents.
You have to couple, load more.
I would say this was somethingdifferent.
And also the nutrition is muchmore important.
And the middle stance, sprinterstance because there's just one
hour and you have a bottle onthe bike and there you have
maybe 30 grams of carbs in thebottle.
(13:05):
But if you don't get it in,then it's also not so important.
But for middle stance you haveto train the nutrition.
Then, with the stomach, nothinggets out.
Nothing gets out again and so,yeah, this was something new and
yeah, with my coach, yeah, wetried to talk about this and
trying to train this and andtraining.
(13:27):
So that's.
I think that's the mostdifferent to the shortest
distance and yeah, so I got itvery fast with the nutrition,
though already in the first raceit was okay.
And yeah, on the running I havesometimes problems to get carbs
in I, me and my coach doingthis speed stuff and all the
(13:52):
longer stuff, so he makes itvery good.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
You've mentioned your coach a couple of times already
and I think actually you shareyour coach with claire and
claire also coached by joe.
Given that you're very early inyour career, how did you go
about picking your coach?
What did you look for in acoach?
What was it about joe that youfelt was a good fit?
Speaker 4 (14:12):
yeah, for me it's important to have a good
relationship to the coach and itwas not just what is on the
training plan, so I'm askingvery many questions or I want to
know why we are doing this.
So that's very important for methat I can give my.
Is it okay if I ask questions?
And so that's what I think it'svery important in our
(14:40):
relationship that he isadjustable.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
So the next episode of season seven with Andrea
Burke, known as Andrea Henkel.
What did you make of theinterview with Andrea Claire?
Speaker 2 (14:52):
First of all, it's a new sport that I only watch in
the Winter Olympics.
So when I say it's a new sport,it's new to me, as in I've
never done it.
It looks really fast, furiousand exciting to do.
So it was great to interview anathlete from winter sports,
because we often don't have that.
So, first of all, that wasbrilliant.
And there was a lot of ourquestions weren't there in terms
(15:15):
of what does training look like?
What does a race look like?
We learned about the world cupseries and the olympics, how
important the world cup is tothose winter athletes in terms
of her consistency andconsistently being able to
perform at a high level.
And we've talked before aboutdifferent countries.
You were talking recently aboutamerica and germ Germany and
(15:36):
how they bring up athletes inthe world of sports, and I think
this is another example.
Andrea talked about East Berlinand how they all had to do
three sports that they all hadto do compulsory, so that, to me
, is really interesting.
Again, there's this culture ofdoing sports, being involved and
, I think, all those things thatit teaches you at a young age
(15:57):
in terms of what sport teachesyou at a young age.
So it was fascinating insightand I know, in particular for
you, you were really interestedby the kind of openness around
her answering some questionsaround doping from other people
involved in the Olympics.
So what did you think of herresponses?
Speaker 1 (16:16):
It was brilliant.
She was willing to have an openconversation about that,
because quite often people weinterview say I'll talk about
anything except doping in sport,few and far between.
Obviously, the Sharon Davisepisode stands out as somebody
that was very keen to speak outabout that and the issue around
transgender in sport and andactually it's cost Sharon a lot
(16:38):
of money over her career becausethen people run away from her
because she's willing to talkabout that stuff.
And so it was.
Yes, I thought that was areally interesting part of
Andrea's interview wasunderstanding the impact on the
athlete, not just at the timewhere they're taking drugs, but
even if they get away with it,the long-term health impacts of
doping in sports.
(16:58):
So I thought that was a reallyinteresting part of the
conversation.
And the other interesting partof the conversation I really
enjoyed was the piece aroundlong COVID, because she's
obviously developed a program tohelp people that are suffering
from long COVID.
But what I loved about it wasthe sort of balanced approach of
that.
There was some nutrition, therewas some sleep, there was some
yoga.
This isn't just a training planfor long COVID, is it?
(17:20):
This is a training plan forlife and health and success and
everything else.
So I think let's dive into asnippet of the conversation that
we had with Andrea around herlong COVID treatment.
Speaker 5 (17:35):
COVID treatment.
So we have a program which is a16 program, like 12 units, and
they work people through atfirst like understanding what's
going on in their body, becausejust this understanding part is
already very helpful.
We call it in psychoneurology,we call it deep learning, which
helps to already understand, bealso more likely to do this
(17:58):
little exercise because theydon't take forever and that's
like by purpose, because, again,like some people with long
COVID, they cannot do much andthen it cannot take an hour a
day to use some tools to do so.
We do like nervous systemalignment with, like feet,
breath work, but also eyeexercises, connected tissue
(18:19):
stretches, like specificstretches to open up the body so
that things can flow again andto give again the brain like a
safety that feels more, that canlike know what's going on in
the environment, and then itthen it feels safer.
(18:41):
It's like people don't want togo out somewhere because it's
unsafe.
And then it's like the fightand flight reaction and then
it's like having tools whichcalm the system or regulate the
system.
That's always calming.
It's also sometimes regulated.
So we do also some mobilitywork and stretches and put it
(19:03):
into like a sequence, likemuscle relaxation, using your
body, basically to also calmbrain and then also diet is a
big aspect, like it's usingextra stressors for the body and
using like really helpfulanti-inflammatory foods we have
like sorry, I was gonna say canyou give me some examples on the
(19:26):
nutrition side?
Speaker 1 (19:27):
I'm guessing that claire was about to ask the same
question, because that would beher nature.
Um, but what's um?
Yeah, so what?
What sort of things are youadvising people to do on the
nutrition, specifically to helpthem with long COVID?
Speaker 5 (19:43):
Yeah, we work with what to eat, so basically
anti-inflammatory foods, a lotof vegetables and these things
and also more of those Isometimes call it vegan with
chicken and fish and eggs.
This is not specific, but it'slike very broad.
But we also want to keep itsimple.
(20:05):
It has to be doable, and whento eat matters, because when we
eat constantly it triggers theimmune system.
We want to try to not eatconstantly, but having like
eating cranks in between meals.
And then also what we hear alot, what Katie, my business
(20:26):
partner, experienced herself.
It's like these cravings.
And then when we have cravingsbecause of lack of energy, like
you really grab something, it'sjust around the corner.
So we help with like havingthat, so like just taking half
an avocado and eat instead likesomething which doesn't spike
(20:47):
the blood sugar.
So we like go into this topic.
Okay, brilliant, high trend.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
And before we move on , because I'm just intrigued
what results have you seen fromthis work?
How much success are yougetting with this and helping
people that have been sufferingwith long COVID?
Speaker 5 (21:12):
Yeah, so far we had good success.
Some feel better like 10 daysand then, but then of course it
continues.
It's just like getting to likelike getting like a little bit
foundation, in that they'recapable of getting to the next
step, but then we would goalready to like the last step
(21:34):
and the foundation is built sokind of like sports, kind of
what we do.
It like endurance trainingfirst, before you put on the
next level and we are, theprogram is pulled together and
it's 60 weeks.
It's not short but it's wethink it's like easy to.
(21:55):
It has to be also like easy todo, stick with it and to want to
be stick with it and likehaving like some precise in the
front end.
It's also more likely to likekeep going and it's like simple
and easy to put into, like abusy schedule.
But we also realized, and peoplefeel better after a while,
(22:16):
they're like let go a little bit, this little tool and then
they're like comes up and thenit's like it's kind of like open
mind.
I know we want to do this andit's like great, like called it,
like managing the symptoms andand also having like an eye work
or press real quick.
You don't need a tool with it.
(22:37):
So like just knowing, also withlike self-assessment tools,
that people actually find whatmobility exercise works best and
helps me the most, then can puttogether their own toolkit that
they can take anywhere.
And that's for us important andwe had for the ones who were
(23:02):
the program.
Then suddenly everyone got likesomehow like out of the world.
I was active again and it wasreally fun to see, and then
everyone came back okay, we needto like do this, still do this,
and it's in the part of theroutine and that's the whole
goal, like to have it as aroutine to then go from here to
here and then other things andsplits, use for like even it
(23:26):
doesn't have to do anything withlong core and that they used to
be able to perform better likethis.
Little things like doing weirdeye, foot movements usually
don't do just to trigger thebrain, to like create more
connection.
So it's also not just like okay, now I'm good, now I don't have
a use for this anymore.
(23:47):
No, it's like there's a use forlike the next level and the
next level I'm just like keepingup if you want us to keep
getting amazing guests onto thebusiness of endurance podcast.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
We don't ask you to pay for us.
We don't ask for patronage.
All we ask for is that yousubscribe to the podcast,
ideally on Apple.
Give us a five-star ratingbecause it shows us you care and
, if you've got time, leave us acomment.
One word is fine, somethinglike inspiring or amazing or
something like that, but wereally do appreciate it and it
(24:19):
will help us to continue todeliver amazing guests on what
we hope you find to be anamazing podcast.
Thanks very much and Chloe frombig moves charity, we featured
in episode one of season sevenmade such a great impact on the
both of us, we decided to makethem our charity one of season
seven made such a great impacton the both of us, we decided to
(24:40):
make them our charity sponsorfor season seven.
Now, they really touched me inthe sense that I lost my
brother-in-law to suicide inWales and these guys are working
their socks off to help preventsituations like that.
Claire, why did Jeff and Chloereally make an impact on you?
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Coming from a background in clinical nutrition
and working in mental health,to me also it hit a spot in
terms of the charity and howthey are building therapy to
help support people with mentalhealth difficulties, and they've
saved over 50 lives now andalready met their first target
of a million and their newtarget, 15 million, that they're
trying to get to.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
It's absolutely incredible and 15 million is a
huge target they've setthemselves, but they're speeding
up help that people indesperately in need get, and
this help is needed more thanever and I know how problematic
mental health issues are intoday's world.
So if you think you can helpBig Moose Charity and they're
particularly looking forcorporate partners to help them
(25:44):
raise that 15 million, if youthink you can help them or link
them into a company that canhelp them, the best place to go
to is bigmoosecharityco, or youcan find them on Instagram as
bigmoosecharity, or you can evenemail Jeff at jeffatbigmooseco.
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