September 11, 2024 • 41 mins
Welcome to another episode of The Business of Endurance Podcast, where we dive deep into the minds and lives of the world’s most inspiring endurance athletes. Today, I’m thrilled to have a true legend in the world of ultrarunning—Dean Karnazes. Known as the "Ultramarathon Man," Dean has not only redefined the limits of human endurance but has inspired millions with his remarkable stories and insights. In this episode, Dean opens up about the mental and physical strategies that have powered him through some of the world’s most gruelling races. We explore his evolution in race nutrition, tackling post-race blues, and balancing the demands of ultrarunning with family life. Whether you're an aspiring ultrarunner or looking for inspiration to push through life’s challenges, Dean’s wisdom on health, longevity, and mental resilience will leave you motivated to conquer your own limits. Get ready for an unforgettable conversation!
Highlights:
- Dean's First Ultra Marathon Experience
- Proudest Achievements & Evolution of Ultra Running
- Nutrition Strategies for Extreme Environments
- Dealing with Post-Race Blues
- Balancing Training and Family Life
- Cultural Experiences Through Running
- The Significance of the Western States 100
- Mental Strategies for Endurance
- Reflections on the Olympics
Links:
Click here for additional helpful content mentioned in this episode.
Connect with Dean Karnazes on Instagram & LinkedIn & Web.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
I'm Charlie Redding and I'm Claire Fudge.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Welcome to the Business of Endurance.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
Don't think about how much further you've got to go.
Don't think about the past.
Don't think about how miserableyou are.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Welcome to another episode of the Business of
Endurance podcast, where we diveinto the minds and lives of the
world's most inspiringendurance athletes.
Today I am thrilled to have atrue legend in the world of
ultra running on board, and thatis Dean Karnasas.
So Dean is known as theultramarathon man not to his
(00:42):
particular liking, but that wasthe name of his first book.
As the ultramarathon man not tohis particular liking, but that
was the name of his first book.
And Dean has not only redefinedthe limits of human endurance,
but he's inspired millions ofpeople with his remarkable
stories and insights.
In this episode, dean opens upabout the mental and physical
strategies that have powered himthrough some of the world's
most grueling races, challengesand adventures.
(01:03):
We explore the evolution in hisrace nutrition right back to
basics at the start, to muchmore strategic, tactical
nutrition.
Nowadays we talk about tacklingthe post-race blues, which he
suffered with a lot at the startand he's now much more attuned
to dealing with them.
And we we talk about balancingthe demands of ultra running
(01:25):
with family life.
And if you don't know about Dean, dean runs literally hundreds
of miles.
He's won races like theBadwater Ultra, which is 120
mile ultra marathon throughDeath Valley, basically the
hottest place on earth.
He's run marathons to the SouthPole.
He's finished in the top 10Western states more than 10
(01:46):
times.
His running CV is off the chart.
He ran 50 marathons in 50 daysin 50 states.
He's run Silk Road ultras.
Honestly, you name it.
Dino Karnasas has done it, orKarno as he affectionately known
.
So whether you're an inspiringultra runner or looking for
inspiration to push throughlife's challenges, dean's wisdom
(02:07):
on health, longevity and mentalresilience will help get you
motivated to conquer your ownlimits to get ready for an
unforgettable conversation withDean Karnasas.
One of the things that Dean isgoing to touch on in this
episode is what he calls theBHAG, which is the Big Hairy
Audacious Goal, and if you stayaround till the end, I'll give
(02:31):
you something that will help youachieve your BHAG your Big
Hairy Audacious Goal.
Dean, welcome to the Businessof Endurance podcast.
I'm so looking forward to thischat.
I've loved your books, laughingout loud, listening to them
(02:56):
while training, so I know thisis going to be a cracking
conversation, but I always liketo start with the inspiring
story For you.
The story that I picked up fromUltramarathon man was that
first run, and for those peoplewho haven't heard that story.
You know why did you startrunning on your 30th birthday
and why did you keep going.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Yeah, I mean I'll digress a little bit earlier in
my life.
I used to love to run when Iwas a kid.
Some of my earliest childhoodrecollections were running home
from kindergarten and I rancompetitively until high school,
at 15, we won the cross-countrychampionships and I thought
that's as far as I'll take myrunning career.
So I stopped running at 15.
Fast forward to my 30thbirthday.
A couple of university degreeslater, a business degree,
(03:38):
comfortable corporate job in SanFrancisco, and I'm in a
nightclub on my 30th birthdaycelebrating At midnight.
I told them I was leaving.
They said why?
It's your 30th birthday.
Let's have another round oftequila to celebrate.
And I told them no, I'm goingto run 30 miles to celebrate.
They said but you're not arunner, you're drunk.
I said I am, but I'm stillgoing to do it.
And I literally walked out ofthe bar, just humiliated with my
(04:00):
life as a businessman, eventhough I was successful.
I just wasn't happy and Istarted stumbling drunkenly into
the night, heading south,knowing there was a town called
Half Moon Bay 30 miles away.
I thought run there tonight,set your sights on that and
that'll be an accomplishment.
I sobered up about 10 milesdown the road and I thought what
the hell are you doing?
This is crazy.
But something felt right.
(04:21):
I kept going and I made it.
It wasn't pretty, someblistering and chafing, but I
made it 30 miles and I decidedthat next morning that I was
going to become a long distancerunner, quit my corporate job
and dedicate myself to running.
And that was three decades ago.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
And since that time you have done the most
incredible amount of running.
There's no point in me tryingto work out where to start in
terms of which ones to pick, soI suppose the question I'll ask
is which do you think is yourmost proud achievement in your
running career?
Which one of those incredibleevents challenges, races do you
put at the top of your roster?
Speaker 3 (04:58):
you know, I've run on all seven continents twice.
I've run across the hottestplace on earth, death Valley,
and I've run a marathon to theSouth Pole, the coldest place on
earth.
But I think running 50marathons in 50 states in 50
consecutive days was probablythe most difficult challenge and
perhaps the most rewarding,because there was no blueprint
for doing it.
(05:18):
It had never been done before.
Figuring out logistically howto do it, how to get sponsors to
help cover the cost.
This is back in 2006.
So it kind of set in motionthis idea of taking on these
self-conceived challenges.
Now you have people doing allkinds of crazy events that are
outside of competition butnonetheless challenging and
(05:42):
rewarding.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
You're right.
There is so much going on now.
Obviously, the world of ultrarunning has changed massively
since you started.
What are the things that arestill in ultra running that were
then and that are dear to yourheart, and what's the unexpected
new thing in ultra running thatyou also love that wasn't there
when you started.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
The challenge and the expansion of what you conceive
as possible is expanded when yourun an ultra marathon.
I live in the world of ultramarathoning and I just think
everyone knows about ultramarathoning but they don't.
And you know, when someonehears you ran a hundred
continuous miles, they can'twrap their head around it, like
I couldn't wrap my head aroundit when I heard about a hundred
mile foot race the first time.
(06:24):
So I think that thrill of doingthe impossible is still there.
It's certainly become a morecompetitive sport.
Since I started the numbershave grown exponentially.
So the growth of ultramarathoning is blown my mind.
It's still a relatively smallbase when you compare it to
marathoning or running ingeneral, but it's more
commonplace.
The word ultramarathon orultramarathoning is more
(06:46):
prevalent in the everydaylexicon.
You read about it in the paperonce in a while, so there's a
greater understanding ofultramarathoning in the general
public.
The demographic has shifted,which I, like you, know.
When I first got into it it wasprimarily men and now it's
about 40, 60 men and women.
You look around and think thisperson doesn't look fit.
There's no way they're going torun 50 miles or 100 kilometers.
(07:10):
But what I've learned it's moreup here in the head there's
people that are not wanting thepodium, not even mid-pack, but
just to make it.
Their goal is just I want tofinish this race.
And then they're slow and andsteady and they do it.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
I think it's amazing to see so many different types
of people from differentbackgrounds now actually taking
part in these events.
As you've seen, things evolveover time with the events.
How has your nutrition changedover that time?
Because it sounds like thefirst 30 miles you ever did,
potentially fueled by beer andtequila.
So how has that fuelingstrategy changed over time?
Speaker 3 (07:47):
I mean that's a good question.
You know, the first time I ran200 miles it was a 12-person
relay race but I just signed upas one person.
I told them I didn't have 11friends left.
So you know, famously in themiddle of the night I was alone
and hungry.
I had a cell phone and a creditcard.
I ordered pizza delivered to meas I was running and I ate a
(08:07):
whole pizza.
I rolled it up into a bigburrito log of pizza and ate it.
I just thought early on.
I just thought calories werecalories.
Just get in as many calories asyou can.
It was just a numbers gameBurning 10, 20, 30,000 calories.
Just consume that amount inwhatever form.
I've now become much moreprecise about the types of
(08:27):
calories carbohydrates, fats,protein, simple sugars, complex
sugars, branched chain aminoacids so I've become much more
sophisticated and scientific.
As far as fueling During thesereally long runs, longer than 24
hours I'm still having pizza.
I still love solid food andit's a mix now of sports
nutrition and food I love to eatwhile I'm running.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
I think that mixture is important, isn't it?
From a gut training perspective?
How did you manage in extremeenvironments, from extremely hot
desert environments to very,very cold temperatures?
How did your nutrition changein those environments the hot
climates?
I tend to eat a very coldtemperatures.
How did your nutrition changein those environments?
Speaker 3 (09:06):
The hot climates I tend to eat a lot more salt, so
a lot more electrolytes withsodium, potassium, magnesium and
chloride, whether those arethrough supplements or whether
those are from food sourcesdefinitely more salty food.
My nutrition is moreliquid-based.
In hot climates.
I tend to have more GI issueswhen the weather's warm and
(09:29):
that's especially true when it'shumid.
Running across Death Valley,it's the hottest place on earth.
It's relatively dry, which ischallenging in its own right,
but then when I run in humidplaces, that's a difficult
challenge as well.
So I try to take in more liquidcalories, as much sodium as I
can, to keep things movingthrough my GI tract.
One of the biggest problems withhot climates and running is you
(09:51):
take in a lot of calories butyour body shuts down, your
digestive system shuts down, soeverything stays in your stomach
.
You hear runners talking aboutthat all the time.
No matter what I had, it wassloshing around in my stomach
and that's usually because oneyou're overheated, like your
core temperature's too high.
So I tell people that not justchew on ice, but if there's ice
(10:12):
available on the course, toswallow whole pieces of cool
down your stomach and let thingsmove through.
So that's a trick I've learnedfor hot climates.
For cold climates I tend toprobably eat twice as many
calories as I'm burning.
My body just goes into a sortof shock, because not only do
you have the output from theendurance sport you're doing,
(10:32):
your body's trying to compensatefor the cold.
I don't have much body fat, soI just know that it'll load up
my calories when I'm doing coldweather races.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
I laugh as you say you haven't got much body fat.
There was a point in your bookwhere I laughed out loud because
you were talking about theharsh weather conditions in your
living room and the fortune ofbeing sponsored by North Face
for keeping you warm in yourhouse.
So actually I'm going to raceout in Kona, hawaii, later on
this year.
And you talking about thatamazing advice from a digestion
(11:02):
point of view for heat.
Are there any other tips thatyou have for training or racing
somewhere that's really hot whenyou can't train in that heat?
Speaker 3 (11:11):
when you said kona the thing there you do an iron
man.
Absolutely bravo, bravo, yeahthe congratulations.
That's on my list.
I've done ironman distancetriathlons but never kona.
It's kind of like the bostonmarathon.
Like anyone worth their weightin Ironman needs to do Kona.
Claire's done Kona and I've gotit going, so you'll have to come
join us Well, yeah, I mean,claire knows a lot of the tricks
(11:33):
and you see a lot of the racers.
They know what to do.
The one thing I don't like is alot of sun hitting my skin.
Even with sun block on, I'velearned that it really drains my
energy to have that hottropical sun searing my skin.
So I really cover up.
I have white UV protective armsleeves that are cooling and
have ice pockets under the arm.
(11:54):
I also put a bandana around myneck full with ice.
It's called an ice bandana soit keeps the cold up against
your carotid artery.
There's two systems you need tomanage in that heat your
internal system and yourexternal system.
So you want to keep your skincool.
They're dumping cold water overtheir head constantly and you
want to keep your core cool Ifthey have ice.
(12:15):
On course, if you can swallowice, especially if you're having
GI issues, that's helpful tokeep your core cool and keep the
calories moving through.
You.
Look at getting some UVprotective tights versus running
in the Speedos that you do theswim in and the bike in Cover up
especially.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
You know you're coming from a climate that's not
so hot, but just really try toprotect yourself from the sun
specifically so dean has justbeen giving away some top tips
(12:53):
around his heat training andracing, and I just love the idea
of the ice bandana, so I'lldefinitely be exploring that.
But if you would like to beable to know a little bit more
about how to really put thosestrategies into place for
training and racing in the heat,then in the show notes below,
if you click the link, you candownload nutrition and hydration
strategies for heat.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
In your books you reference post-race blues a few
times.
I got the impression they wereworse at the start than now.
Claire and I did an ultra inthe UK a couple of winters ago
and I know for a fact Idefinitely suffered with
post-race blues and have donefrom Ironman.
So my question is how have youlearned to deal with those
post-race blues, because it'sdefinitely a thing and what
(13:35):
tricks have you learned whetherit's practical, whether it's
kind of strategic tips toovercome that?
Speaker 3 (13:44):
You know, first is just having the realization that
you go through these cycles,knowing, hey, this is kind of a
trend, like post-race, you'regoing to be a little depressed.
You've been there before, sothis is not unusual or atypical.
The other is, nowadays I kindof celebrate the lows and say
you are so depressed you want tocrawl under a rock.
(14:05):
It's horrible.
Have you ever been thishorrible before?
Can you get out of this place?
I look at it as a challenge.
Can you reach the finish ofKona if you're having a bad race
and cramping?
This is part of living is havingthese dramatic highs when
racing, or these very deep lows,these deep, deep lows of
depression, and also realizing,you know, some of the greatest
(14:26):
creative minds in history havesuffered from severe depression
and so it's not something youcan't live with and still be
very effective.
It's a strange state ofdepression, these post-race
depressions.
You're kind of happy and blueat the same time.
You're proud of youraccomplishment, you know you've
(14:46):
done something that most peoplecould never do, but you're also
you know you have these emotionswhere you feel useless and
you're done.
You have no more energy left.
You know what's the point ofliving, kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
I've never really thought about this until you
spoke, but a lot of us trainbecause we're suffering with
something like ADHD and exercisekeeps us sane.
And then after you've competed,you have a period of recovery
and I suspect there's an elementof not moving as much because
physically we're not capable andwe mentally need a break.
(15:18):
But equally that break I'm theleast happy the day I.
If I have a recovery day,that's the worst day of the week
for me mentally.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
We're programmed to move.
Modern society is built to beidle.
We get in an elevator.
You know we're trying to avoidmovement and what I think a lot
of us crave all three of us isthis movement, this constant
movement, elevating our heartrate.
Motion stirs emotion.
We are hunters and gatherers.
That instinct is still withinus.
(15:46):
The things I try to do aredaily practices.
I have One being.
I never sit down.
Right now I'm standing up.
I have my computer on a stand.
So from the moment I get out ofbed until the moment I go back
to sleep, I try to at least beon my feet all day, at least
standing up.
When I sit down I really getlazy and lethargic and depressed
(16:08):
.
I try to exercise the next dayafter any big competition maybe
walk half a mile or a mile toelevate my heart rate.
Do some upper body stuff, notleg stuff like HIIT training
burpees, push-ups, pull-ups,chair dips just to keep that
movement and to get the bodykind of re-acclimated to the
(16:29):
next event.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
I think it's so important to keep moving a
little bit after you've donesomething, both mind and body.
How do you manage being?
You know training for theseultramarathon and extreme events
?
How do you manage that?
And family life, because it's alot of commitment to do these
events and you know the planningof it.
So tell us a little bit abouthow does that work for you and
(16:50):
perhaps any tips for newerpeople coming into ultramarathon
events.
How can they manage that with afamily?
Speaker 3 (16:58):
I think the quality of time with your family is more
important than quantity.
So if you're training for anyendurance sport, you're going to
be, you know, absent for forlarge, for large blocks of time.
But I think when you are withyour family, that you're present
for them, you're not distracted.
You know you put down yourphone, do things that they enjoy
(17:19):
, things that you, you know, you, you all enjoy.
So you know kids are reallyquick as finding hypocrisy If
you tell them you're the mostimportant thing in my life and
then you're out training everyday and you don't pay attention
to them.
They see that.
So if they are indeed the mostimportant thing in your life,
that even if you are out theretraining, they can sense that
(17:40):
when you're not, you're reallywith them and maybe training is
something you need to do to bemore with them.
Kids are smart.
They really pick up on thesethings.
Involve your family as much aspossible.
Endurance sports are great forkids.
You know to see the humanspirit at its finest.
So bring them to the races.
You know, if you travel to arace, don't make it just about
(18:01):
you.
Don't make it about your race.
Build in a lot of activitiesfor the rest of the family
around the race and make itequally about them and, you know
, doing things they love to do,as well as bringing them to the
race, if you can.
So involve them, show them yourlove and dedication to
something that you really enjoy,and also your dedication to
them.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
I think it comes across in your books how
fantastic the involvement ofyour parents and son are in
supporting you.
I love the part of the bookwhere you sort of assume you've
gone into a hallucination andyou're thinking that your son
has you've had a row and he'storn off home, and then you come
around and it's lovely how itgave you the opportunity to get
(18:44):
him involved but also to see himsucceed as well, didn't it?
Speaker 3 (18:49):
Yeah, I mean, when you rely on someone like my son,
nicholas, to crew for you, youput your trust in them.
They can either lay you down orthey can exceed your
expectations, and he did justthat.
I was thinking about droppingout of the race where he crewed
for me.
I wanted to tell the life ofsomeone that drops out that
quits, and I kind of spun thatdaydream as a quitter and said,
(19:09):
no, I don't want to quit, I wantto succeed.
So get up out of that chair andkeep going.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Thinking of the Silk Road race in particular from a
cultural perspective.
You must have experiencedamazing things.
Is there anything that standsout as culturally amazing that
you wouldn't have experienced ifyou hadn't been doing these
events?
Speaker 3 (19:27):
The way that running unites people.
Running is a commonality weshare as a species.
Right, there's so many thingsin this world that divide us, be
it the color of our skin, theGod we worship, the language we
speak, our socioeconomic level.
But when you run, we're equaland running just.
You get smiles from people,even if they're not runners, if
(19:49):
they just see you running by, ifthey drive by and they see you
running.
There's just something aboutthe human form and motion that
is inspiring and it's positive.
That's pretty much universal.
People are really courteous toyou, especially in these foreign
countries.
When you're out in thecountryside, the people that
have less means are the happiest.
(20:09):
The kids are laughing andsmiling, playing with an old
rubber ball they found.
You don't hear kids crying.
You get closer to the citiesand feel the stress level going
up People honking, yelling,traffic.
Attention just goes way, way up.
Then you pass through a city,you get back in the country and
everything chills out again.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
I think that is a special thing about running you
get out in nature more.
You've run all these incredibleraces all over the world, but
the one that I picked up on asbeing a very certainly one of
the most special races for youis the Western States.
What is it about the WesternStates that makes it?
I mean the story you tell ofcompleting your first and what
I'm assuming is your last in arunner's high.
(20:50):
I'm not sure whether you'vebeen back since it, just it's
certainly it's on my bucket list, if I can ever get a place
there.
What makes it so special?
Speaker 3 (20:58):
Well, you know the Western States 100 mile
endurance run was my first 100miler.
Nothing holds a mirror up toyou like running 100 miles.
I'll never forget the racedirector at the starting line
said look around, half of youwon't reach the finish line.
Congratulations for having thecourage to try.
And he said the other half ofyou that crossed the finish line
.
You know you're going to crossthat finish line as a changed
(21:20):
person.
You're going to learn moreabout yourselves in the next 24
hours than you've ever known ina lifetime.
And it proved true.
It was a great awakening.
I proved I could do something Ithought was impossible.
You know, when I first heardabout running a hundred miles, I
thought there's trickeryinvolved, come on, there's
(21:41):
campgrounds along the way orhotels.
You know you take taxis or youget on bikes and ride a little
bit, but just to go runcontinuously for a hundred miles
.
It proved to me that you knowI'm better than I thought I was
and I'm more capable than Ithought I was.
So it was just something withthe first one and that kind of
just grand aha moment where yousaid, my God, I just ran 100
miles.
That sticks with you.
And you know Western States isthe first 100 mile trail race.
(22:05):
I mean, now that I know history,you know I will say that the
Old Town of Arizona actuallystarted in ancient Greece in 490
BC, but short of that, thefirst modern 100-miler was the
Western States and it started asa horse race.
The legend is that a gentlemanhad trained all year to ride
this 100-mile horse race and acouple of days before the race
(22:25):
his horse went lame and he stillwanted to do the race, so he
decided to run it.
They thought he was crazy, butthey let him do it and he
finished, and they didn't have atraditional running medal.
Like you know, if you finishthe London Marathon or any other
marathon, you get a medalaround your neck, right.
Well, when he finished, therewas no running medals because it
was a horse race, but they hadthese rodeo buckles and so they
(22:46):
gave him a belt buckle becausethat's what they had and that
thing stuck.
Now, globally, when you finishthese 100 mile trail races, you
get a belt buckle it's amazingto hear where things originate
from the, the history behind it.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
Talking about, you know that man that did the, you
know ran the the 100 miles.
How, I guess, does your mentalgame change over time?
So you know, going back to thatoriginal 30 miles?
You did, but now you've done somany events.
How do you play that mentalgame?
How do you push through whentimes are really tough, when
(23:18):
you're in pain?
What's your story behind that?
Speaker 3 (23:21):
Yeah, I mean.
People say you know, what doyou think about when things get
tough?
Thinking is the problem.
I try not to think, just toturn off my mind entirely.
So you know, when things startto get tough, you're typically
thinking you know when's thenext aid station, you know
when's the next mile marker.
(23:41):
I don't do that.
I put on blinders completely.
I don't reflect on the past.
I think about the presentmoment, here and now.
I just try to take my nextfootstep to the best of my
ability.
That's all I say to myself.
Take your next footstep to thebest of your ability.
Okay, take your next footstepto the best of your ability.
Don't think about how muchfurther you've got to go.
Don't think about the past.
Don't think about how miserableyou are.
Just think about taking yournext footstep as best as you can
(24:02):
.
And it really takes somediscipline to bring your mind
back, because our minds are soactive.
We've got thousands of thingsracing through our mind.
Even now, as we're on thisinterview, you're thinking about
the next question how much timewe have left.
I don't do that.
Bring your mind back to thenext footstep, put your head
down, take your next footstep.
It's almost like a Zen state.
I can do this for six or sevenhours, just misery saying don't
(24:29):
think about anything except yournext footstep.
And I've gotten to points whereI thought there's no way I'm
going to ever reach the finishline.
And 12 or 15 hours later Isomehow crossed the finish line.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Is there a way you apply this to business?
You had a very successfulbusiness career as well.
Is there a lesson that we canbe learning in business from
this?
Speaker 3 (24:46):
I like to set what are called big, hairy, audacious
goals.
Set a big goal, a dream goal.
The path to get there is nevereasy.
So some days things flow andeverything seems to be on track.
Other days things implode andyou think, oh, the whole thing
is derailed.
But having that mindset of just, you know, today I'm going to
be my best when I get out of bed.
(25:07):
I'm going to give it my besteffort today and no matter what,
no matter how bad things get,I'm going to give it my best
effort, because you can'tcontrol external events.
All you can control is the wayyou view and perceive external
events.
So the commitment every daywhen I get out of bed, be it
business or racing, is just, I'mgoing to be the best Dean that
Dean can be.
Today I'm dedicated to that onegoal and if I can live up to
(25:31):
that goal, no matter if I fail,I've succeeded.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
What do you see in people currently sort of
training for these events,Because there's lots of people
who swear by training with musicor listening to things.
What's your approach totraining?
Do you ever listen to anything?
Or you know, training your mind.
Is that about the basics, yourmind being empty, so to speak.
Speaker 3 (25:54):
You know I do a combination of all of what you
just mentioned.
You know one thing I my motherwas an English teacher told me
the best writers are the bestreaders.
I love to read, but when you'retraining for six or eight hours
a day, when do you have time toread?
I love listening to audio books.
I probably have 500 on myplaylist.
I have all different genresself-help, business, sports,
(26:15):
adventure, history books.
Bibliofeels say that's notreally reading a book because
you're listening.
But I remind them, the firstand probably the greatest piece
of literature ever written wasHomer's Odyssey and Iliad, and
those were spoken words.
These were lyrical because thestory was passed down lyrically
before the written word.
So I don't think there'sanything inauthentic about
listening to a book.
(26:35):
In fact, when I listen to abook and then I go and read that
same book, I have a verydifferent experience.
So I do a lot of listening toaudio books.
I also do a lot of writing whenI'm running.
We have some of our clearestthoughts when we're out doing an
endurance sport More for mewhen I'm running than when I'm
cycling, because things are justhappening quicker when you're
cycling.
When I'm out for a longtraining run, I have some really
(26:58):
good thoughts.
It's the one time where ourmind is free to think for itself
.
We're less encumbered thangoing through the course of a
normal day.
I do a lot of voice dictationof the thoughts that I have and
then I type them up.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
I do a lot of voice dictation of the thoughts that I
have and then I type them up.
Amazing, genuinely lovedlistening to your books whilst
running because it just I'm likeyou.
I think that's such a greatopportunity to consume books.
I'm dyslexic, so horribly slowat reading, but with listening
to books you can consume them soeasily when you've got lots of
time on your hands while you'retraining.
Having written a few booksmyself, I know how difficult it
(27:31):
is to put together a really goodbook.
What is it about running thatattracts so many books?
And for anybody that waswanting to turn their passion
into a book, what advice wouldyou give?
Because it's rare that Igenuinely laugh out loud at a
book, so there's something goingon successfully there.
What advice would you give to abudding author?
Speaker 3 (27:52):
You know to make the voice yours and authentic.
I think the prelude to my firstbook.
I said every runner is a storyto tell.
This is my story.
Everyone gets into running fora different reason.
Some people look at themselvesin the mirror and realize I'm 40
or 50 kilos overweight.
I got to do something.
Other people are dragged to thesidelines of a marathon and get
(28:14):
inspired watching these runnersgo by.
Tell your story.
We love stories and hearingabout different realities.
When you read my book you learnabout Dean's reality, which is
different than your reality.
It's expansive.
You learn my way of doingthings is not the only way.
People live very differentlives.
We have a lot of demands on ourattention, especially with
(28:34):
social media.
It's constant bombardment ofnoise.
The first sentence has got tobe interesting.
You've got to pull the readerin the first sentence or else
you know that's going to set thestage for the rest of the book.
So try to make your firstsentence compelling.
Avoid cliches.
They're tired and lazy.
Writing Involve all the senseswhen describing a scene.
(28:55):
Involve what it looks like,what it feels like, what it
smells like, what it tastes like.
We relate to the world throughour senses, so write about how
your senses are impacted by whatyou're going through and the
situation you're in.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
And I can see, having listened to those books, how
it's taken me into the story bydoing that, so that's absolutely
brilliant.
We always ask on this podcastwhat books you find yourself
recommending to others.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
You know modern books .
There's a book called theEndurance, about the race to get
to the South Pole.
It's an amazing story.
It's an adventure story.
It's got a happy ending.
And then there's another bookcalled the Worst Journey in the
World, another raceliad and theOdyssey, and that is probably
(29:53):
the best writing in history.
It's the first piece of writtenliterature after the oral
tradition, so it's writtenlyrically.
So when you read it it almostsings to you.
It's like you're reading apassage of music.
So I continually go back andread any new translation of the
Iliad or the Odyssey.
Good to great as far asbusiness titles is a great book.
You know Malcolm Gladwell's thetipping point is very
(30:17):
influential and profound.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
I love Malcolm Gladwell, love Good to Great,
but there's some new ones that Ihaven't read.
That's awesome, adding to thereading list nicely.
We always ask the previousguest to ask the next guest a
question and your question comesfrom Ben Rosario.
I think Claire's got Ben'squestion.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
Ben has asked what leader inspires you the most.
Speaker 3 (30:40):
My father, my dad, I mean.
You know there's a lot of greatpeople I admire from afar, but
I don't really know thempersonally.
But you know my dad is.
He's always been there for me.
He's been, you know, mygreatest supporter and he's
taught me so many lessons about,you know, the grace of living.
So I would say my greatestleisure is my dad.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
And one final question to wrap things up.
We're recording this just asthe Paris Olympics has finished.
What did you make of what Ithought was an incredible event?
Speaker 3 (31:09):
It was phenomenal, the energy was phenomenal and if
I could offer any advice, Iwould hope that, you know, in
future Olympics the coveragewill reflect a little bit more
on the past, because how theOlympics got to Paris in 2024 is
an incredible story and aFrenchman who revived the
Olympics and who brought us themodern Olympics.
After you know, the ancientOlympics ended in 394 AD.
(31:32):
Looking at the history, theGreeks in 776 said we need
something that transcends ourconstant conflict, a warring
between city-states.
We need something that bringsus together and they said let's
have this event where, insteadof killing each other, we
compete against each other insport and we celebrate this.
The world needs that messagethat started in 776 in ancient
(31:57):
Olympia, greece, which is stillthere.
You can still walk around theruins of where this all began.
So I wish there was a littlebit more of a nod to the past
and the celebration of thefascinating history that got us
to the modern Olympics.
It is a global event that stillcontinues to bring the world
together.
I'm proud to be Greek.
When I watch the coverage, Ithink you know my ancestors
(32:19):
conceived this whole idea andit's still something we have
today.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
The next Olympics is not a million miles away from
your US home.
Is it in LA?
How do you think they'llcompare to the Paris one that's
just gone?
Speaker 3 (32:30):
Ironically, I was born in LA, very close to the LA
Coliseum where my you know, myAmerica roots come from.
I'm going to try to exert myinfluence saying celebrate the
past a little bit.
From the coverage I saw here inthe US of the transition.
It was very much a Hollywoodmoment.
It was Tom Cruise, verytheatrical, very Hollywood.
It didn't speak to me aboutsports.
(32:53):
It was Tom Cruise, verytheatrical, very Hollywood.
It didn't speak to me aboutsports, it spoke to me about
Hollywood and entertainment.
Hopefully there will be a nodto the past and celebration of
the past.
It's through celebrating ourhistory and tradition that links
us together, not just as livinghumans now but to our
predecessors, and I think thatthat message is unifying.
From what I saw of the coverageat least the transition here in
(33:15):
the US.
It's going to take a lot ofendurance on my behalf to get
that message through, but I'mgoing to do my best.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
I'm sure, given how much influence you've had on
running, you will make thathappen somehow, dean.
It's been absolutely brilliantchatting to you, loved your
books, loved chatting chattingto you today.
Some really great insights inthere, as well as some
inspirational stuff too.
So thank you so much.
If you want to find out moreabout dean karnasas, the best
(33:46):
place to find him are oninstagram, where he is at
ultramarathon, and on facebook,where he's just Dean Karnasas,
obviously, but also his websiteis ultramarathonmancom, and I
honestly recommend you check outhis books.
I genuinely love both Run UsHigh and Ultramarathon man.
Like I said, they make me laughout loud.
(34:08):
Go check them out.
So what did you make of thatinterview with Karno Dean
Karnasas?
Speaker 1 (34:14):
Amazing.
I love speaking to people witha depth of history behind their
sport and I love how he got intoit.
Yeah, I'll just run, you know,30 miles after having a few
beers and a few tequilas.
There's not many people I knowof in the running world that
fell into running like that.
I love the beginning story, andhe's just got so much knowledge
behind his running as well,hasn't he?
Speaker 2 (34:35):
I just think it's incredible.
I just recommend his books toeveryone because I just
genuinely think if you don't run, it will get you running.
If you do run, it'll get yourunning more.
But you'll also empathize withsome of it.
And he just throws away thecomment about the fact that he
was running the 200 mile race.
That was a relay because hecouldn't find 11 mates.
But the story around that isjust phenomenal.
(34:58):
And running 200 miles nonstopand he's obviously he's done
longer than that, I think.
His longest run, I think, is350 miles without stopping.
It's just absolutely incredible.
But the story he tells when heorders the pizza and the pizza
man is like driving alongsidehim and then he has a full
cheesecake as well.
It's just brilliant.
I think he tells amazingstories, but he's also clearly
(35:21):
learned a lot on his journey aswell and experienced a lot.
Any takeaways that you're goingto adopt into your life or
training or anything else.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
I did love his ice bandana keeping your neck cool
and actually I often share withmy clients about the ice cubes
and actually keeping them inyour mouth and, when you can,
swallowing the ice cube to keepyour cold temperature down.
So I thought those tips aboutheat I mean he's done heat and
ridiculously cold temperaturesas well.
But we've interviewed so manyathletes that talk about how
(35:51):
they keep their mind quiet andactually he was able to listen
to books as he read and actuallywrite his books as he's running
.
But actually coming back tothat like when things get tough,
that you've got to be able tobe quiet in your head, and I
think that's been a massivetheme, hasn't it when we've
interviewed particularlyendurance athletes that how do
you get through those barriersand it's being quiet in your
(36:12):
head, I thought that justresonates with so many things
that we've heard.
He knows so much history he'sobviously Greek from what he
tells us but the history behindthe Olympics, the history behind
running, I love that and Ithink as runners, probably most
of us don't know where some ofthis really originates from and
that, for me, is I really wantto read more about it now, and
particularly having had theOlympics just come to a close.
(36:35):
That's actually inspired me toread a bit more about the real
history behind things as well.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
Yeah, I agree, I think the Olympics history is
amazing.
I think in this day and age, wewould see the UTMB as being
certainly the top European racein Western States, the top US
race.
But the UTMB has definitelycaptured more attention in
recent years because itliterally, you know, 20,000 or
16,000 athletes get to race it,whereas Western States is still
(37:00):
only a small.
It's so difficult to get inthere now, but the history and
the story behind it isfascinating.
So, yeah, I agree, and Iactually hadn't heard of the
swallowing of ice cubes, so Ithought that was great advice.
Let's just put it out there,yeah be careful to crunch ice
cubes before swallowing them,yeah, but also the arm sleeves
with ice tucked into those aswell.
(37:21):
I thought that was, again,really good idea.
So loads of great advice, andfor great books as well.
And I just think his writingstyle is so infectious.
A great episode, lots to lotsto learn, lots of inspiration,
absolute lunatic, but it showswhat you can achieve if you put
your mind to it, whether that'sin sport or whether that's in
business.
And obviously you talked abouthow you can take that pushing
(37:42):
through the pain and apply it tothe business life as well,
about bringing it back to.
Well, look, just put one footin front of the other.
Don't worry about where thefinish line is, what the goal is
.
Just get through one more stepcloser towards the finish line
and being present, I thoughtthat was really powerful.
So an awesome episode from anincredible human being.
For everyone else out there,keep on training.
So I said right at the start Iwould give you something to help
(38:05):
you achieve what Dean justdescribed as the BHAG the big,
hairy, audacious goal.
Because goal setting is reallyimportant, but goal achieving is
a very different thing.
We don't rise to the level ofour goals.
We fall to the level of oursystems, and Dean talked really
beautifully about how, yes, weneed the long-term goal, the
finish line, to head towards,but we need to stay very present
(38:28):
on what can we do today?
What now?
What's the next step forward?
So we have a live workshop thatgoes on, called the Limitless
Life Workshop, and it will gothrough my goal setting system,
but also the goal achievingsystem, the system that we fall
back on to ensure that weachieve the goals that we set.
So if you go to the link in theshow notes or you go to
(38:50):
wwwthetrustedteam, you can jointhe Limitless Life Workshop.
It's about a three-hourworkshop, so it's a proper
coaching workshop, but I'm goingto walk you through the process
.
I'm going to give you thequestions to ask yourself and
the time to work through it sothat, at the end, not only do
you have a clear understandingof what your BHAGs are your big,
hairy, audacious goals but alsoexactly what you've got to do
(39:12):
now to start achieving them.
So go to the show notes or thewebsite, thetrustedteam, and
join us at the Limitless LifeWorkshop, completely free of
charge, of course, if you wantus to keep getting amazing
guests onto the Business ofEndurance podcast.
We don't ask for you to pay forus.
We don't ask for patronage.
All we ask for is that yousubscribe to the podcast,
(39:34):
ideally on Apple.
Give us a five-star ratingbecause it shows us you care and
, if you've got time, leave us acomment.
One word is fine, somethinglike inspiring or amazing or
something like that, but wereally do appreciate it and it
will help us to continue todeliver amazing guests on what
(39:56):
we hope you find to be anamazing podcast.
Thanks very much.
Jeff and Chloe from Big MooseCharity, we featured in episode
one of season seven, made such agreat impact on the both of us,
we decided to make them ourcharity sponsor for season seven
.
Now, they really touched me inthe sense that I lost my
(40:16):
brother-in-law to suicide inWales and these guys are working
their socks off to help preventsituations like that.
Claire, why did Jeff and Chloereally make an impact on you?
Speaker 1 (40:29):
Coming from a background in clinical nutrition
and working in mental health,to me also it hit a spot in
terms of the charity and howthey are building therapy to
help support people with mentalhealth difficulties, and they've
saved over 50 lives now andalready met their first target
of a million and their newtarget, 15 million, that they're
trying to get to.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
It's absolutely incredible and 15 million is a
huge target they've setthemselves, but they're speeding
up help that people indesperately in need get, and
this help is needed more thanever and I know how problematic
mental health issues are intoday's world.
So if you think you can helpBig Moose Charity and they're
particularly looking forcorporate partners to help them
(41:12):
raise that 15 million, if youthink you can help Big Moose
Charity and they're particularlylooking for corporate partners
to help them raise that 15million, if you think you can
help them or link them into acompany that can help them, the
best place to go to isbigmoosecharityco, or you can
find them on Instagram asbigmoosecharity, or you can even
email Jeff at jeffatbigmooseco.
I'm Charlie Redding and I'm Claire Fudge.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Welcome to the Business of Endurance.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
Don't think about how much further you've got to go.
Don't think about the past.
Don't think about how miserableyou are.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Welcome to another episode of the Business of
Endurance podcast, where we diveinto the minds and lives of the
world's most inspiringendurance athletes.
Today I am thrilled to have atrue legend in the world of
ultra running on board, and thatis Dean Karnasas.
So Dean is known as theultramarathon man not to his
(00:42):
particular liking, but that wasthe name of his first book.
As the ultramarathon man not tohis particular liking, but that
was the name of his first book.
And Dean has not only redefinedthe limits of human endurance,
but he's inspired millions ofpeople with his remarkable
stories and insights.
In this episode, dean opens upabout the mental and physical
strategies that have powered himthrough some of the world's
most grueling races, challengesand adventures.
(01:03):
We explore the evolution in hisrace nutrition right back to
basics at the start, to muchmore strategic, tactical
nutrition.
Nowadays we talk about tacklingthe post-race blues, which he
suffered with a lot at the startand he's now much more attuned
to dealing with them.
And we we talk about balancingthe demands of ultra running
(01:25):
with family life.
And if you don't know about Dean, dean runs literally hundreds
of miles.
He's won races like theBadwater Ultra, which is 120
mile ultra marathon throughDeath Valley, basically the
hottest place on earth.
He's run marathons to the SouthPole.
He's finished in the top 10Western states more than 10
(01:46):
times.
His running CV is off the chart.
He ran 50 marathons in 50 daysin 50 states.
He's run Silk Road ultras.
Honestly, you name it.
Dino Karnasas has done it, orKarno as he affectionately known
.
So whether you're an inspiringultra runner or looking for
inspiration to push throughlife's challenges, dean's wisdom
(02:07):
on health, longevity and mentalresilience will help get you
motivated to conquer your ownlimits to get ready for an
unforgettable conversation withDean Karnasas.
One of the things that Dean isgoing to touch on in this
episode is what he calls theBHAG, which is the Big Hairy
Audacious Goal, and if you stayaround till the end, I'll give
(02:31):
you something that will help youachieve your BHAG your Big
Hairy Audacious Goal.
Dean, welcome to the Businessof Endurance podcast.
I'm so looking forward to thischat.
I've loved your books, laughingout loud, listening to them
(02:56):
while training, so I know thisis going to be a cracking
conversation, but I always liketo start with the inspiring
story For you.
The story that I picked up fromUltramarathon man was that
first run, and for those peoplewho haven't heard that story.
You know why did you startrunning on your 30th birthday
and why did you keep going.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Yeah, I mean I'll digress a little bit earlier in
my life.
I used to love to run when Iwas a kid.
Some of my earliest childhoodrecollections were running home
from kindergarten and I rancompetitively until high school,
at 15, we won the cross-countrychampionships and I thought
that's as far as I'll take myrunning career.
So I stopped running at 15.
Fast forward to my 30thbirthday.
A couple of university degreeslater, a business degree,
(03:38):
comfortable corporate job in SanFrancisco, and I'm in a
nightclub on my 30th birthdaycelebrating At midnight.
I told them I was leaving.
They said why?
It's your 30th birthday.
Let's have another round oftequila to celebrate.
And I told them no, I'm goingto run 30 miles to celebrate.
They said but you're not arunner, you're drunk.
I said I am, but I'm stillgoing to do it.
And I literally walked out ofthe bar, just humiliated with my
(04:00):
life as a businessman, eventhough I was successful.
I just wasn't happy and Istarted stumbling drunkenly into
the night, heading south,knowing there was a town called
Half Moon Bay 30 miles away.
I thought run there tonight,set your sights on that and
that'll be an accomplishment.
I sobered up about 10 milesdown the road and I thought what
the hell are you doing?
This is crazy.
But something felt right.
(04:21):
I kept going and I made it.
It wasn't pretty, someblistering and chafing, but I
made it 30 miles and I decidedthat next morning that I was
going to become a long distancerunner, quit my corporate job
and dedicate myself to running.
And that was three decades ago.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
And since that time you have done the most
incredible amount of running.
There's no point in me tryingto work out where to start in
terms of which ones to pick, soI suppose the question I'll ask
is which do you think is yourmost proud achievement in your
running career?
Which one of those incredibleevents challenges, races do you
put at the top of your roster?
Speaker 3 (04:58):
you know, I've run on all seven continents twice.
I've run across the hottestplace on earth, death Valley,
and I've run a marathon to theSouth Pole, the coldest place on
earth.
But I think running 50marathons in 50 states in 50
consecutive days was probablythe most difficult challenge and
perhaps the most rewarding,because there was no blueprint
for doing it.
(05:18):
It had never been done before.
Figuring out logistically howto do it, how to get sponsors to
help cover the cost.
This is back in 2006.
So it kind of set in motionthis idea of taking on these
self-conceived challenges.
Now you have people doing allkinds of crazy events that are
outside of competition butnonetheless challenging and
(05:42):
rewarding.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
You're right.
There is so much going on now.
Obviously, the world of ultrarunning has changed massively
since you started.
What are the things that arestill in ultra running that were
then and that are dear to yourheart, and what's the unexpected
new thing in ultra running thatyou also love that wasn't there
when you started.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
The challenge and the expansion of what you conceive
as possible is expanded when yourun an ultra marathon.
I live in the world of ultramarathoning and I just think
everyone knows about ultramarathoning but they don't.
And you know, when someonehears you ran a hundred
continuous miles, they can'twrap their head around it, like
I couldn't wrap my head aroundit when I heard about a hundred
mile foot race the first time.
(06:24):
So I think that thrill of doingthe impossible is still there.
It's certainly become a morecompetitive sport.
Since I started the numbershave grown exponentially.
So the growth of ultramarathoning is blown my mind.
It's still a relatively smallbase when you compare it to
marathoning or running ingeneral, but it's more
commonplace.
The word ultramarathon orultramarathoning is more
(06:46):
prevalent in the everydaylexicon.
You read about it in the paperonce in a while, so there's a
greater understanding ofultramarathoning in the general
public.
The demographic has shifted,which I, like you, know.
When I first got into it it wasprimarily men and now it's
about 40, 60 men and women.
You look around and think thisperson doesn't look fit.
There's no way they're going torun 50 miles or 100 kilometers.
(07:10):
But what I've learned it's moreup here in the head there's
people that are not wanting thepodium, not even mid-pack, but
just to make it.
Their goal is just I want tofinish this race.
And then they're slow and andsteady and they do it.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
I think it's amazing to see so many different types
of people from differentbackgrounds now actually taking
part in these events.
As you've seen, things evolveover time with the events.
How has your nutrition changedover that time?
Because it sounds like thefirst 30 miles you ever did,
potentially fueled by beer andtequila.
So how has that fuelingstrategy changed over time?
Speaker 3 (07:47):
I mean that's a good question.
You know, the first time I ran200 miles it was a 12-person
relay race but I just signed upas one person.
I told them I didn't have 11friends left.
So you know, famously in themiddle of the night I was alone
and hungry.
I had a cell phone and a creditcard.
I ordered pizza delivered to meas I was running and I ate a
(08:07):
whole pizza.
I rolled it up into a bigburrito log of pizza and ate it.
I just thought early on.
I just thought calories werecalories.
Just get in as many calories asyou can.
It was just a numbers gameBurning 10, 20, 30,000 calories.
Just consume that amount inwhatever form.
I've now become much moreprecise about the types of
(08:27):
calories carbohydrates, fats,protein, simple sugars, complex
sugars, branched chain aminoacids so I've become much more
sophisticated and scientific.
As far as fueling During thesereally long runs, longer than 24
hours I'm still having pizza.
I still love solid food andit's a mix now of sports
nutrition and food I love to eatwhile I'm running.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
I think that mixture is important, isn't it?
From a gut training perspective?
How did you manage in extremeenvironments, from extremely hot
desert environments to very,very cold temperatures?
How did your nutrition changein those environments the hot
climates?
I tend to eat a very coldtemperatures.
How did your nutrition changein those environments?
Speaker 3 (09:06):
The hot climates I tend to eat a lot more salt, so
a lot more electrolytes withsodium, potassium, magnesium and
chloride, whether those arethrough supplements or whether
those are from food sourcesdefinitely more salty food.
My nutrition is moreliquid-based.
In hot climates.
I tend to have more GI issueswhen the weather's warm and
(09:29):
that's especially true when it'shumid.
Running across Death Valley,it's the hottest place on earth.
It's relatively dry, which ischallenging in its own right,
but then when I run in humidplaces, that's a difficult
challenge as well.
So I try to take in more liquidcalories, as much sodium as I
can, to keep things movingthrough my GI tract.
One of the biggest problems withhot climates and running is you
(09:51):
take in a lot of calories butyour body shuts down, your
digestive system shuts down, soeverything stays in your stomach
.
You hear runners talking aboutthat all the time.
No matter what I had, it wassloshing around in my stomach
and that's usually because oneyou're overheated, like your
core temperature's too high.
So I tell people that not justchew on ice, but if there's ice
(10:12):
available on the course, toswallow whole pieces of cool
down your stomach and let thingsmove through.
So that's a trick I've learnedfor hot climates.
For cold climates I tend toprobably eat twice as many
calories as I'm burning.
My body just goes into a sortof shock, because not only do
you have the output from theendurance sport you're doing,
(10:32):
your body's trying to compensatefor the cold.
I don't have much body fat, soI just know that it'll load up
my calories when I'm doing coldweather races.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
I laugh as you say you haven't got much body fat.
There was a point in your bookwhere I laughed out loud because
you were talking about theharsh weather conditions in your
living room and the fortune ofbeing sponsored by North Face
for keeping you warm in yourhouse.
So actually I'm going to raceout in Kona, hawaii, later on
this year.
And you talking about thatamazing advice from a digestion
(11:02):
point of view for heat.
Are there any other tips thatyou have for training or racing
somewhere that's really hot whenyou can't train in that heat?
Speaker 3 (11:11):
when you said kona the thing there you do an iron
man.
Absolutely bravo, bravo, yeahthe congratulations.
That's on my list.
I've done ironman distancetriathlons but never kona.
It's kind of like the bostonmarathon.
Like anyone worth their weightin Ironman needs to do Kona.
Claire's done Kona and I've gotit going, so you'll have to come
join us Well, yeah, I mean,claire knows a lot of the tricks
(11:33):
and you see a lot of the racers.
They know what to do.
The one thing I don't like is alot of sun hitting my skin.
Even with sun block on, I'velearned that it really drains my
energy to have that hottropical sun searing my skin.
So I really cover up.
I have white UV protective armsleeves that are cooling and
have ice pockets under the arm.
(11:54):
I also put a bandana around myneck full with ice.
It's called an ice bandana soit keeps the cold up against
your carotid artery.
There's two systems you need tomanage in that heat your
internal system and yourexternal system.
So you want to keep your skincool.
They're dumping cold water overtheir head constantly and you
want to keep your core cool Ifthey have ice.
(12:15):
On course, if you can swallowice, especially if you're having
GI issues, that's helpful tokeep your core cool and keep the
calories moving through.
You.
Look at getting some UVprotective tights versus running
in the Speedos that you do theswim in and the bike in Cover up
especially.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
You know you're coming from a climate that's not
so hot, but just really try toprotect yourself from the sun
specifically so dean has justbeen giving away some top tips
(12:53):
around his heat training andracing, and I just love the idea
of the ice bandana, so I'lldefinitely be exploring that.
But if you would like to beable to know a little bit more
about how to really put thosestrategies into place for
training and racing in the heat,then in the show notes below,
if you click the link, you candownload nutrition and hydration
strategies for heat.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
In your books you reference post-race blues a few
times.
I got the impression they wereworse at the start than now.
Claire and I did an ultra inthe UK a couple of winters ago
and I know for a fact Idefinitely suffered with
post-race blues and have donefrom Ironman.
So my question is how have youlearned to deal with those
post-race blues, because it'sdefinitely a thing and what
(13:35):
tricks have you learned whetherit's practical, whether it's
kind of strategic tips toovercome that?
Speaker 3 (13:44):
You know, first is just having the realization that
you go through these cycles,knowing, hey, this is kind of a
trend, like post-race, you'regoing to be a little depressed.
You've been there before, sothis is not unusual or atypical.
The other is, nowadays I kindof celebrate the lows and say
you are so depressed you want tocrawl under a rock.
(14:05):
It's horrible.
Have you ever been thishorrible before?
Can you get out of this place?
I look at it as a challenge.
Can you reach the finish ofKona if you're having a bad race
and cramping?
This is part of living is havingthese dramatic highs when
racing, or these very deep lows,these deep, deep lows of
depression, and also realizing,you know, some of the greatest
(14:26):
creative minds in history havesuffered from severe depression
and so it's not something youcan't live with and still be
very effective.
It's a strange state ofdepression, these post-race
depressions.
You're kind of happy and blueat the same time.
You're proud of youraccomplishment, you know you've
(14:46):
done something that most peoplecould never do, but you're also
you know you have these emotionswhere you feel useless and
you're done.
You have no more energy left.
You know what's the point ofliving, kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
I've never really thought about this until you
spoke, but a lot of us trainbecause we're suffering with
something like ADHD and exercisekeeps us sane.
And then after you've competed,you have a period of recovery
and I suspect there's an elementof not moving as much because
physically we're not capable andwe mentally need a break.
(15:18):
But equally that break I'm theleast happy the day I.
If I have a recovery day,that's the worst day of the week
for me mentally.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
We're programmed to move.
Modern society is built to beidle.
We get in an elevator.
You know we're trying to avoidmovement and what I think a lot
of us crave all three of us isthis movement, this constant
movement, elevating our heartrate.
Motion stirs emotion.
We are hunters and gatherers.
That instinct is still withinus.
(15:46):
The things I try to do aredaily practices.
I have One being.
I never sit down.
Right now I'm standing up.
I have my computer on a stand.
So from the moment I get out ofbed until the moment I go back
to sleep, I try to at least beon my feet all day, at least
standing up.
When I sit down I really getlazy and lethargic and depressed
(16:08):
.
I try to exercise the next dayafter any big competition maybe
walk half a mile or a mile toelevate my heart rate.
Do some upper body stuff, notleg stuff like HIIT training
burpees, push-ups, pull-ups,chair dips just to keep that
movement and to get the bodykind of re-acclimated to the
(16:29):
next event.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
I think it's so important to keep moving a
little bit after you've donesomething, both mind and body.
How do you manage being?
You know training for theseultramarathon and extreme events
?
How do you manage that?
And family life, because it's alot of commitment to do these
events and you know the planningof it.
So tell us a little bit abouthow does that work for you and
(16:50):
perhaps any tips for newerpeople coming into ultramarathon
events.
How can they manage that with afamily?
Speaker 3 (16:58):
I think the quality of time with your family is more
important than quantity.
So if you're training for anyendurance sport, you're going to
be, you know, absent for forlarge, for large blocks of time.
But I think when you are withyour family, that you're present
for them, you're not distracted.
You know you put down yourphone, do things that they enjoy
(17:19):
, things that you, you know, you, you all enjoy.
So you know kids are reallyquick as finding hypocrisy If
you tell them you're the mostimportant thing in my life and
then you're out training everyday and you don't pay attention
to them.
They see that.
So if they are indeed the mostimportant thing in your life,
that even if you are out theretraining, they can sense that
(17:40):
when you're not, you're reallywith them and maybe training is
something you need to do to bemore with them.
Kids are smart.
They really pick up on thesethings.
Involve your family as much aspossible.
Endurance sports are great forkids.
You know to see the humanspirit at its finest.
So bring them to the races.
You know, if you travel to arace, don't make it just about
(18:01):
you.
Don't make it about your race.
Build in a lot of activitiesfor the rest of the family
around the race and make itequally about them and, you know
, doing things they love to do,as well as bringing them to the
race, if you can.
So involve them, show them yourlove and dedication to
something that you really enjoy,and also your dedication to
them.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
I think it comes across in your books how
fantastic the involvement ofyour parents and son are in
supporting you.
I love the part of the bookwhere you sort of assume you've
gone into a hallucination andyou're thinking that your son
has you've had a row and he'storn off home, and then you come
around and it's lovely how itgave you the opportunity to get
(18:44):
him involved but also to see himsucceed as well, didn't it?
Speaker 3 (18:49):
Yeah, I mean, when you rely on someone like my son,
nicholas, to crew for you, youput your trust in them.
They can either lay you down orthey can exceed your
expectations, and he did justthat.
I was thinking about droppingout of the race where he crewed
for me.
I wanted to tell the life ofsomeone that drops out that
quits, and I kind of spun thatdaydream as a quitter and said,
(19:09):
no, I don't want to quit, I wantto succeed.
So get up out of that chair andkeep going.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Thinking of the Silk Road race in particular from a
cultural perspective.
You must have experiencedamazing things.
Is there anything that standsout as culturally amazing that
you wouldn't have experienced ifyou hadn't been doing these
events?
Speaker 3 (19:27):
The way that running unites people.
Running is a commonality weshare as a species.
Right, there's so many thingsin this world that divide us, be
it the color of our skin, theGod we worship, the language we
speak, our socioeconomic level.
But when you run, we're equaland running just.
You get smiles from people,even if they're not runners, if
(19:49):
they just see you running by, ifthey drive by and they see you
running.
There's just something aboutthe human form and motion that
is inspiring and it's positive.
That's pretty much universal.
People are really courteous toyou, especially in these foreign
countries.
When you're out in thecountryside, the people that
have less means are the happiest.
(20:09):
The kids are laughing andsmiling, playing with an old
rubber ball they found.
You don't hear kids crying.
You get closer to the citiesand feel the stress level going
up People honking, yelling,traffic.
Attention just goes way, way up.
Then you pass through a city,you get back in the country and
everything chills out again.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
I think that is a special thing about running you
get out in nature more.
You've run all these incredibleraces all over the world, but
the one that I picked up on asbeing a very certainly one of
the most special races for youis the Western States.
What is it about the WesternStates that makes it?
I mean the story you tell ofcompleting your first and what
I'm assuming is your last in arunner's high.
(20:50):
I'm not sure whether you'vebeen back since it, just it's
certainly it's on my bucket list, if I can ever get a place
there.
What makes it so special?
Speaker 3 (20:58):
Well, you know the Western States 100 mile
endurance run was my first 100miler.
Nothing holds a mirror up toyou like running 100 miles.
I'll never forget the racedirector at the starting line
said look around, half of youwon't reach the finish line.
Congratulations for having thecourage to try.
And he said the other half ofyou that crossed the finish line
.
You know you're going to crossthat finish line as a changed
(21:20):
person.
You're going to learn moreabout yourselves in the next 24
hours than you've ever known ina lifetime.
And it proved true.
It was a great awakening.
I proved I could do something Ithought was impossible.
You know, when I first heardabout running a hundred miles, I
thought there's trickeryinvolved, come on, there's
(21:41):
campgrounds along the way orhotels.
You know you take taxis or youget on bikes and ride a little
bit, but just to go runcontinuously for a hundred miles
.
It proved to me that you knowI'm better than I thought I was
and I'm more capable than Ithought I was.
So it was just something withthe first one and that kind of
just grand aha moment where yousaid, my God, I just ran 100
miles.
That sticks with you.
And you know Western States isthe first 100 mile trail race.
(22:05):
I mean, now that I know history,you know I will say that the
Old Town of Arizona actuallystarted in ancient Greece in 490
BC, but short of that, thefirst modern 100-miler was the
Western States and it started asa horse race.
The legend is that a gentlemanhad trained all year to ride
this 100-mile horse race and acouple of days before the race
(22:25):
his horse went lame and he stillwanted to do the race, so he
decided to run it.
They thought he was crazy, butthey let him do it and he
finished, and they didn't have atraditional running medal.
Like you know, if you finishthe London Marathon or any other
marathon, you get a medalaround your neck, right.
Well, when he finished, therewas no running medals because it
was a horse race, but they hadthese rodeo buckles and so they
(22:46):
gave him a belt buckle becausethat's what they had and that
thing stuck.
Now, globally, when you finishthese 100 mile trail races, you
get a belt buckle it's amazingto hear where things originate
from the, the history behind it.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
Talking about, you know that man that did the, you
know ran the the 100 miles.
How, I guess, does your mentalgame change over time?
So you know, going back to thatoriginal 30 miles?
You did, but now you've done somany events.
How do you play that mentalgame?
How do you push through whentimes are really tough, when
(23:18):
you're in pain?
What's your story behind that?
Speaker 3 (23:21):
Yeah, I mean.
People say you know, what doyou think about when things get
tough?
Thinking is the problem.
I try not to think, just toturn off my mind entirely.
So you know, when things startto get tough, you're typically
thinking you know when's thenext aid station, you know
when's the next mile marker.
(23:41):
I don't do that.
I put on blinders completely.
I don't reflect on the past.
I think about the presentmoment, here and now.
I just try to take my nextfootstep to the best of my
ability.
That's all I say to myself.
Take your next footstep to thebest of your ability.
Okay, take your next footstepto the best of your ability.
Don't think about how muchfurther you've got to go.
Don't think about the past.
Don't think about how miserableyou are.
Just think about taking yournext footstep as best as you can
(24:02):
.
And it really takes somediscipline to bring your mind
back, because our minds are soactive.
We've got thousands of thingsracing through our mind.
Even now, as we're on thisinterview, you're thinking about
the next question how much timewe have left.
I don't do that.
Bring your mind back to thenext footstep, put your head
down, take your next footstep.
It's almost like a Zen state.
I can do this for six or sevenhours, just misery saying don't
(24:29):
think about anything except yournext footstep.
And I've gotten to points whereI thought there's no way I'm
going to ever reach the finishline.
And 12 or 15 hours later Isomehow crossed the finish line.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Is there a way you apply this to business?
You had a very successfulbusiness career as well.
Is there a lesson that we canbe learning in business from
this?
Speaker 3 (24:46):
I like to set what are called big, hairy, audacious
goals.
Set a big goal, a dream goal.
The path to get there is nevereasy.
So some days things flow andeverything seems to be on track.
Other days things implode andyou think, oh, the whole thing
is derailed.
But having that mindset of just, you know, today I'm going to
be my best when I get out of bed.
(25:07):
I'm going to give it my besteffort today and no matter what,
no matter how bad things get,I'm going to give it my best
effort, because you can'tcontrol external events.
All you can control is the wayyou view and perceive external
events.
So the commitment every daywhen I get out of bed, be it
business or racing, is just, I'mgoing to be the best Dean that
Dean can be.
Today I'm dedicated to that onegoal and if I can live up to
(25:31):
that goal, no matter if I fail,I've succeeded.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
What do you see in people currently sort of
training for these events,Because there's lots of people
who swear by training with musicor listening to things.
What's your approach totraining?
Do you ever listen to anything?
Or you know, training your mind.
Is that about the basics, yourmind being empty, so to speak.
Speaker 3 (25:54):
You know I do a combination of all of what you
just mentioned.
You know one thing I my motherwas an English teacher told me
the best writers are the bestreaders.
I love to read, but when you'retraining for six or eight hours
a day, when do you have time toread?
I love listening to audio books.
I probably have 500 on myplaylist.
I have all different genresself-help, business, sports,
(26:15):
adventure, history books.
Bibliofeels say that's notreally reading a book because
you're listening.
But I remind them, the firstand probably the greatest piece
of literature ever written wasHomer's Odyssey and Iliad, and
those were spoken words.
These were lyrical because thestory was passed down lyrically
before the written word.
So I don't think there'sanything inauthentic about
listening to a book.
(26:35):
In fact, when I listen to abook and then I go and read that
same book, I have a verydifferent experience.
So I do a lot of listening toaudio books.
I also do a lot of writing whenI'm running.
We have some of our clearestthoughts when we're out doing an
endurance sport More for mewhen I'm running than when I'm
cycling, because things are justhappening quicker when you're
cycling.
When I'm out for a longtraining run, I have some really
(26:58):
good thoughts.
It's the one time where ourmind is free to think for itself
.
We're less encumbered thangoing through the course of a
normal day.
I do a lot of voice dictationof the thoughts that I have and
then I type them up.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
I do a lot of voice dictation of the thoughts that I
have and then I type them up.
Amazing, genuinely lovedlistening to your books whilst
running because it just I'm likeyou.
I think that's such a greatopportunity to consume books.
I'm dyslexic, so horribly slowat reading, but with listening
to books you can consume them soeasily when you've got lots of
time on your hands while you'retraining.
Having written a few booksmyself, I know how difficult it
(27:31):
is to put together a really goodbook.
What is it about running thatattracts so many books?
And for anybody that waswanting to turn their passion
into a book, what advice wouldyou give?
Because it's rare that Igenuinely laugh out loud at a
book, so there's something goingon successfully there.
What advice would you give to abudding author?
Speaker 3 (27:52):
You know to make the voice yours and authentic.
I think the prelude to my firstbook.
I said every runner is a storyto tell.
This is my story.
Everyone gets into running fora different reason.
Some people look at themselvesin the mirror and realize I'm 40
or 50 kilos overweight.
I got to do something.
Other people are dragged to thesidelines of a marathon and get
(28:14):
inspired watching these runnersgo by.
Tell your story.
We love stories and hearingabout different realities.
When you read my book you learnabout Dean's reality, which is
different than your reality.
It's expansive.
You learn my way of doingthings is not the only way.
People live very differentlives.
We have a lot of demands on ourattention, especially with
(28:34):
social media.
It's constant bombardment ofnoise.
The first sentence has got tobe interesting.
You've got to pull the readerin the first sentence or else
you know that's going to set thestage for the rest of the book.
So try to make your firstsentence compelling.
Avoid cliches.
They're tired and lazy.
Writing Involve all the senseswhen describing a scene.
(28:55):
Involve what it looks like,what it feels like, what it
smells like, what it tastes like.
We relate to the world throughour senses, so write about how
your senses are impacted by whatyou're going through and the
situation you're in.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
And I can see, having listened to those books, how
it's taken me into the story bydoing that, so that's absolutely
brilliant.
We always ask on this podcastwhat books you find yourself
recommending to others.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
You know modern books .
There's a book called theEndurance, about the race to get
to the South Pole.
It's an amazing story.
It's an adventure story.
It's got a happy ending.
And then there's another bookcalled the Worst Journey in the
World, another raceliad and theOdyssey, and that is probably
(29:53):
the best writing in history.
It's the first piece of writtenliterature after the oral
tradition, so it's writtenlyrically.
So when you read it it almostsings to you.
It's like you're reading apassage of music.
So I continually go back andread any new translation of the
Iliad or the Odyssey.
Good to great as far asbusiness titles is a great book.
You know Malcolm Gladwell's thetipping point is very
(30:17):
influential and profound.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
I love Malcolm Gladwell, love Good to Great,
but there's some new ones that Ihaven't read.
That's awesome, adding to thereading list nicely.
We always ask the previousguest to ask the next guest a
question and your question comesfrom Ben Rosario.
I think Claire's got Ben'squestion.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
Ben has asked what leader inspires you the most.
Speaker 3 (30:40):
My father, my dad, I mean.
You know there's a lot of greatpeople I admire from afar, but
I don't really know thempersonally.
But you know my dad is.
He's always been there for me.
He's been, you know, mygreatest supporter and he's
taught me so many lessons about,you know, the grace of living.
So I would say my greatestleisure is my dad.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
And one final question to wrap things up.
We're recording this just asthe Paris Olympics has finished.
What did you make of what Ithought was an incredible event?
Speaker 3 (31:09):
It was phenomenal, the energy was phenomenal and if
I could offer any advice, Iwould hope that, you know, in
future Olympics the coveragewill reflect a little bit more
on the past, because how theOlympics got to Paris in 2024 is
an incredible story and aFrenchman who revived the
Olympics and who brought us themodern Olympics.
After you know, the ancientOlympics ended in 394 AD.
(31:32):
Looking at the history, theGreeks in 776 said we need
something that transcends ourconstant conflict, a warring
between city-states.
We need something that bringsus together and they said let's
have this event where, insteadof killing each other, we
compete against each other insport and we celebrate this.
The world needs that messagethat started in 776 in ancient
(31:57):
Olympia, greece, which is stillthere.
You can still walk around theruins of where this all began.
So I wish there was a littlebit more of a nod to the past
and the celebration of thefascinating history that got us
to the modern Olympics.
It is a global event that stillcontinues to bring the world
together.
I'm proud to be Greek.
When I watch the coverage, Ithink you know my ancestors
(32:19):
conceived this whole idea andit's still something we have
today.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
The next Olympics is not a million miles away from
your US home.
Is it in LA?
How do you think they'llcompare to the Paris one that's
just gone?
Speaker 3 (32:30):
Ironically, I was born in LA, very close to the LA
Coliseum where my you know, myAmerica roots come from.
I'm going to try to exert myinfluence saying celebrate the
past a little bit.
From the coverage I saw here inthe US of the transition.
It was very much a Hollywoodmoment.
It was Tom Cruise, verytheatrical, very Hollywood.
It didn't speak to me aboutsports.
(32:53):
It was Tom Cruise, verytheatrical, very Hollywood.
It didn't speak to me aboutsports, it spoke to me about
Hollywood and entertainment.
Hopefully there will be a nodto the past and celebration of
the past.
It's through celebrating ourhistory and tradition that links
us together, not just as livinghumans now but to our
predecessors, and I think thatthat message is unifying.
From what I saw of the coverageat least the transition here in
(33:15):
the US.
It's going to take a lot ofendurance on my behalf to get
that message through, but I'mgoing to do my best.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
I'm sure, given how much influence you've had on
running, you will make thathappen somehow, dean.
It's been absolutely brilliantchatting to you, loved your
books, loved chatting chattingto you today.
Some really great insights inthere, as well as some
inspirational stuff too.
So thank you so much.
If you want to find out moreabout dean karnasas, the best
(33:46):
place to find him are oninstagram, where he is at
ultramarathon, and on facebook,where he's just Dean Karnasas,
obviously, but also his websiteis ultramarathonmancom, and I
honestly recommend you check outhis books.
I genuinely love both Run UsHigh and Ultramarathon man.
Like I said, they make me laughout loud.
(34:08):
Go check them out.
So what did you make of thatinterview with Karno Dean
Karnasas?
Speaker 1 (34:14):
Amazing.
I love speaking to people witha depth of history behind their
sport and I love how he got intoit.
Yeah, I'll just run, you know,30 miles after having a few
beers and a few tequilas.
There's not many people I knowof in the running world that
fell into running like that.
I love the beginning story, andhe's just got so much knowledge
behind his running as well,hasn't he?
Speaker 2 (34:35):
I just think it's incredible.
I just recommend his books toeveryone because I just
genuinely think if you don't run, it will get you running.
If you do run, it'll get yourunning more.
But you'll also empathize withsome of it.
And he just throws away thecomment about the fact that he
was running the 200 mile race.
That was a relay because hecouldn't find 11 mates.
But the story around that isjust phenomenal.
(34:58):
And running 200 miles nonstopand he's obviously he's done
longer than that, I think.
His longest run, I think, is350 miles without stopping.
It's just absolutely incredible.
But the story he tells when heorders the pizza and the pizza
man is like driving alongsidehim and then he has a full
cheesecake as well.
It's just brilliant.
I think he tells amazingstories, but he's also clearly
(35:21):
learned a lot on his journey aswell and experienced a lot.
Any takeaways that you're goingto adopt into your life or
training or anything else.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
I did love his ice bandana keeping your neck cool
and actually I often share withmy clients about the ice cubes
and actually keeping them inyour mouth and, when you can,
swallowing the ice cube to keepyour cold temperature down.
So I thought those tips aboutheat I mean he's done heat and
ridiculously cold temperaturesas well.
But we've interviewed so manyathletes that talk about how
(35:51):
they keep their mind quiet andactually he was able to listen
to books as he read and actuallywrite his books as he's running
.
But actually coming back tothat like when things get tough,
that you've got to be able tobe quiet in your head, and I
think that's been a massivetheme, hasn't it when we've
interviewed particularlyendurance athletes that how do
you get through those barriersand it's being quiet in your
(36:12):
head, I thought that justresonates with so many things
that we've heard.
He knows so much history he'sobviously Greek from what he
tells us but the history behindthe Olympics, the history behind
running, I love that and Ithink as runners, probably most
of us don't know where some ofthis really originates from and
that, for me, is I really wantto read more about it now, and
particularly having had theOlympics just come to a close.
(36:35):
That's actually inspired me toread a bit more about the real
history behind things as well.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
Yeah, I agree, I think the Olympics history is
amazing.
I think in this day and age, wewould see the UTMB as being
certainly the top European racein Western States, the top US
race.
But the UTMB has definitelycaptured more attention in
recent years because itliterally, you know, 20,000 or
16,000 athletes get to race it,whereas Western States is still
(37:00):
only a small.
It's so difficult to get inthere now, but the history and
the story behind it isfascinating.
So, yeah, I agree, and Iactually hadn't heard of the
swallowing of ice cubes, so Ithought that was great advice.
Let's just put it out there,yeah be careful to crunch ice
cubes before swallowing them,yeah, but also the arm sleeves
with ice tucked into those aswell.
(37:21):
I thought that was, again,really good idea.
So loads of great advice, andfor great books as well.
And I just think his writingstyle is so infectious.
A great episode, lots to lotsto learn, lots of inspiration,
absolute lunatic, but it showswhat you can achieve if you put
your mind to it, whether that'sin sport or whether that's in
business.
And obviously you talked abouthow you can take that pushing
(37:42):
through the pain and apply it tothe business life as well,
about bringing it back to.
Well, look, just put one footin front of the other.
Don't worry about where thefinish line is, what the goal is
.
Just get through one more stepcloser towards the finish line
and being present, I thoughtthat was really powerful.
So an awesome episode from anincredible human being.
For everyone else out there,keep on training.
So I said right at the start Iwould give you something to help
(38:05):
you achieve what Dean justdescribed as the BHAG the big,
hairy, audacious goal.
Because goal setting is reallyimportant, but goal achieving is
a very different thing.
We don't rise to the level ofour goals.
We fall to the level of oursystems, and Dean talked really
beautifully about how, yes, weneed the long-term goal, the
finish line, to head towards,but we need to stay very present
(38:28):
on what can we do today?
What now?
What's the next step forward?
So we have a live workshop thatgoes on, called the Limitless
Life Workshop, and it will gothrough my goal setting system,
but also the goal achievingsystem, the system that we fall
back on to ensure that weachieve the goals that we set.
So if you go to the link in theshow notes or you go to
(38:50):
wwwthetrustedteam, you can jointhe Limitless Life Workshop.
It's about a three-hourworkshop, so it's a proper
coaching workshop, but I'm goingto walk you through the process
.
I'm going to give you thequestions to ask yourself and
the time to work through it sothat, at the end, not only do
you have a clear understandingof what your BHAGs are your big,
hairy, audacious goals but alsoexactly what you've got to do
(39:12):
now to start achieving them.
So go to the show notes or thewebsite, thetrustedteam, and
join us at the Limitless LifeWorkshop, completely free of
charge, of course, if you wantus to keep getting amazing
guests onto the Business ofEndurance podcast.
We don't ask for you to pay forus.
We don't ask for patronage.
All we ask for is that yousubscribe to the podcast,
(39:34):
ideally on Apple.
Give us a five-star ratingbecause it shows us you care and
, if you've got time, leave us acomment.
One word is fine, somethinglike inspiring or amazing or
something like that, but wereally do appreciate it and it
will help us to continue todeliver amazing guests on what
(39:56):
we hope you find to be anamazing podcast.
Thanks very much.
Jeff and Chloe from Big MooseCharity, we featured in episode
one of season seven, made such agreat impact on the both of us,
we decided to make them ourcharity sponsor for season seven
.
Now, they really touched me inthe sense that I lost my
(40:16):
brother-in-law to suicide inWales and these guys are working
their socks off to help preventsituations like that.
Claire, why did Jeff and Chloereally make an impact on you?
Speaker 1 (40:29):
Coming from a background in clinical nutrition
and working in mental health,to me also it hit a spot in
terms of the charity and howthey are building therapy to
help support people with mentalhealth difficulties, and they've
saved over 50 lives now andalready met their first target
of a million and their newtarget, 15 million, that they're
trying to get to.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
It's absolutely incredible and 15 million is a
huge target they've setthemselves, but they're speeding
up help that people indesperately in need get, and
this help is needed more thanever and I know how problematic
mental health issues are intoday's world.
So if you think you can helpBig Moose Charity and they're
particularly looking forcorporate partners to help them
(41:12):
raise that 15 million, if youthink you can help Big Moose
Charity and they're particularlylooking for corporate partners
to help them raise that 15million, if you think you can
help them or link them into acompany that can help them, the
best place to go to isbigmoosecharityco, or you can
find them on Instagram asbigmoosecharity, or you can even
email Jeff at jeffatbigmooseco.
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