We Should Tri: Different Paths to Success with Non Stanford & Aaron Royle

Today’s episode is truly special as we dive into the world of elite triathlon with none other than Non Stanford and Aaron Royle. As a married couple and being current and former professional triathletes turned coaches, they’ve experienced the highs of world championships and Olympic races, as well as the challenges of balancing personal lives with intense training schedules. Together, they share the secrets behind their career highlights, the pivotal lessons from working with the best coaches in the sport, and what they’ve discovered about optimising performance without burning out. But it doesn’t stop there—this episode offers powerful insights for anyone aiming to excel in any field. Non and Aaron discuss the art of resilience, overcoming under-fuelling, and the mental strategies they use to endure when things get tough. Whether you’re an athlete looking to elevate your performance or someone striving for personal growth, this conversation is packed with practical advice and inspiring stories that you won’t want to miss.

Highlights:
 - Non's Journey into Triathlon
 - Aaron's Early Start in Triathlon
 - The Importance of a Diverse Athletic Background
 - Challenges and Rewards of Transitioning to Long Course
 - Standout Moments in Their Careers
 - The Impact of the 2016 Rio Olympics
 - Balancing Professional and Personal Lives
 - Non's Transition to Coaching
 - The Challenges of Self-Coaching
 - Embracing Technology in Training
 - Heart Rate Variability and Remote Coaching
 - Nutrition in Triathlon: Short Course vs. Long Course
 - The Evolution of Nutrition Culture in Triathlon
 - Guiding in the Paralympics: A Unique Experience
 - Inspiring Resources and Recommendations
 - Future of Marathon Records and AI in Sports
 - Looking Forward: Exciting Prospects for 2025

Links:
Connect with Non Stanford on Instagram & X.
Connect with Aaron Royle on Instagram & Web.

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Episode Transcript

Charlie Reading (00:04):
this is probably going to sound really
stereotypical, but from myexperience girls are just more
emotional today's episode istruly special as we dive into
the world of elite triathlonwith none other than both
non-stanford and aaron royal.
As a married couple and beingboth current and former

(00:25):
professional triathletes as wellas turning coaches, they've
experienced the highs of worldchampionships and Olympic races,
as well as the challenges ofbalancing personal lives with
the intense training schedules.
Together, they share thesecrets behind their career.
It highlights the pivotallessons from working with the
best coaches in the sport andwhat they've discovered about

(00:48):
optimal performance withoutburning out.
It doesn't just stop there,either.
This episode offers powerfulinsights for anyone aiming to
excel in any field.
Non and Aaron discuss the artof resilience, overcoming under
fueling and the mentalstrategies they use to endure
when things get tough.
So, whether you're an athletelooking to elevate your

(01:09):
performance or someone strivingfor personal growth, this
conversation is packed withpractical advice and inspiring
stories that you won't want tomiss.
So check out this amazinginterview with non-Stanford and
Aaron Royal.
Non Aaron delighted to get youonto the Business of Endurance

(01:36):
podcast, and it's fantastic tohave a couple on that we can
talk to about the world oftriathlon all together.
So I'm really looking forwardto this conversation, but I'd
love to start things off withwhere your journey in triathlon
began, and so I'd love for youboth to tell me how did you fall
into the world of triathlon?
We'll go with ladies first, andthen you can tell us your story

(01:57):
as to how you came intotriathlon, and then, aaron, I'd
love to know how yours evolvedtoo.

Non Stanford (02:01):
Yes, I actually got into triathlon relatively
late.
I went to the University ofBirmingham.
I predominantly went therebecause it's a very good
academic university, but alsothey had a really strong
cross-country athletics team andat the time in all my teenage
years I'd been a runner and thatwas my sort of main focus.
And it was during my time atBirmingham that I got quite

(02:24):
injured and wanted to try andkeep fit.
I did a bit of swimming in thepast, so I started doing some
swimming with the triathlon cluband slowly going to triathlon
in my second year of universityand it just kind of snowballed
from there.
Really, it took me a long timeto label myself as a triathlete.
I think I was always an injuredrunner waiting for a turn.
But yeah, I think it was like2012 when I went world in the

(02:46):
23s, I was like, oh, I shouldprobably call myself a
triathlete now brilliant andaaron, opposite to none, really
I I got into triathlon reallyearly.

Aaron Royle (02:54):
If you can't tell from the accent, I'm from
australia and over thereswimming coaches are quite
strict.
I was a swimmer at the time andthey have you swimming a lot
and because of that I was quitegood at running as well, just in
the school sort of system.
And at the time the swim coachthat I had when I was about 11
or 12, he said you're a goodswimmer, you can run quite well.
How about you try something togo and even swimming?

(03:17):
At that age I was probablyswimming in the pool about seven
times a week and so when I gotthe opportunity to not swim as
much and ride my bike as wellwhich what kid doesn't like
doing that when they're 12 yearsold I jumped at the opportunity
and so progressed from there.
Obviously, at 12, you can'ttake it too seriously, but there
was a good school pathwayprogram, so I did that within

(03:37):
swimming and running and alsotriathlon.
And then it was around aboutwhen I finished school.
I had to make the decisionbetween getting an
apprenticeship or going touniversity or chasing triathlon,
and obviously my parents werenot super keen on me just
focusing on triathlon andobviously, especially back then,
they didn't think there wasmuch of a career opportunity for
that, but I managed to convincethem after.

(03:59):
They made me go and apply forfree apprenticeshipships first,
to which I was unsuccessful.
Maybe I deliberately didn't putmy best foot forward in those
interviews, but yeah anyway, Imoved to Wollongong from where I
was living up in Newcastle whenI was about 17, and that's when
I started to take it a bit moreserious.
And we actually no onementioned her under 23 world

(04:20):
title in 2012.
I actually was at that race.
We didn't really know eachother and I also won the under
23 world title as well.
So, as fate would have it, weboth won the under 23 world
title the same year at the samerace and what?

Charlie Reading (04:32):
10 years later, got married we're gonna have to
come back to the story shortlyas to where you guys actually
did meet properly, uh, which isa question I've never had to ask
on the podcast before.
But before that, I'm justintrigued because there's quite
a contrast there and we hearlike nowadays we're seeing
people come into triathlonyounger and turn pro younger and
go long course younger andyounger, but you guys have done

(04:53):
it two different ways.
What are your thoughts on?
How important is it thatsomebody comes into triathlon
young, or is like a diversebackground?
I know, non, you came up, camefrom a gymnastics family.
Does that diversity help?
What are your thoughts?

Non Stanford (05:06):
I personally think the most important thing for
any young triathlete or buddingtriathlete to do is join a swim
club, swim swim club, join anathletics club and run an
athletics club and kind of worryabout the bike a little bit
later.
I think you have to be able toswim well to be even in the race
, and swimming is so technicalit's really very difficult to

(05:27):
learn later on in life and pickup well later on in life.
So I think, yeah, you need togo into a swim club and learn
how to swim properly.
That's not doing triathlonclubs a disservice, but I just
don't think you have the accessto the same level of coaching,
the same amount of swimming thatyou can get through a pure swim
club and then also with running.
I think there's a lot of thingsthat can be learned through

(05:49):
doing the drills and the speedwork from a young age 12, 13, 14
.
You don't have to be under 10 oranything like that and I guess
if there's somebody that willtake you out on the bike and
teach you good bike skills froma young age, the most important
thing are bike skills.

Aaron Royle (06:02):
The fitness can come from the other two and be
built up a bit later on yeah,and I think very similar to what
non said, but I think that'svery specific, I guess, to short
course we've you're seeing alittle bit more in the long
course version that you the bikeis really important as well,
but I think ultimately I don'tthink it really matters whether
you're in from a young age orcoming a little bit later, like
non've got the skill set, thework ethic and the talent.

(06:25):
You can be successful.
I think the biggest thing atthe moment is the younger
athletes coming through.
But there is quite a bigdropout rate because it is such
a demanding sport and so it'sreally hard.
If you've got a young kid doingtriathlon quite early, it's
really hard to get them throughthat sort of late teen into
early 20s period because it isquite demanding.
It requires a lot from you.

(06:47):
Yeah, I guess that there is.
No, I don't think there is anyreal answer, but there is
obviously two ways that you cango work your way through it.

Claire Fudge (06:54):
I think it's really interesting as well to
hear what you said aboutswimming in Australia like
really young, and there was afocus on that and non what you
were saying about actually getin the pool and swim being one
of those skills to get intotriathlon early.
We obviously seen a lot oftransition from shorter course
through to 70.3 and long coursetriathlon, but some athletes
find that transition reallydifficult.

(07:16):
Where do you see athletesreally having the skills and the
performance to be able to moveup to longer course?
You know what makes an athletereally good at being able to
transition, do you think BecauseI know both of your careers
have done slightly differentthings, haven't they, in terms
of where you've transitioned?

Aaron Royle (07:32):
You touched on it before that there are a lot of
people transitioning earlierthan they used to into the
middle distance field, I thinkpartly because there's greater
opportunities now.
There's obviously far more racefinancially.
It is an option now now,whereas before it wasn't so much
or not as much, certainly notas much as it is now.
And I think the biggest, thehardest thing for the transition

(07:53):
period is you're leaving areally big safety net.
When you're in short course,you have, especially your racing
at a certain level.
You have good federationsupport, you have a lot of
things taken care of for you,you're traveling as a team and
when you go to races you haveall of that safety support
system.
And so when I first transitioned, it was yeah, I had to be

(08:14):
honest, I found that quite tough.
I was traveling a lot on my ownto a lot of races.
I didn't have the support, Ididn't have the safety net of
federation support, funding etc.
Like stuff like that.
So I think that's what a lot ofathletes in the past maybe
struggled with a little bit andmaybe prolonged their short
course career a little bitlonger than they might have
otherwise, because they werejust scared to make that leap.

(08:35):
But now I think it's a littlebit easier because it is so
rewarding financially.
So I think you're starting tosee that it has made a little
bit of an easier transition.

Charlie Reading (08:44):
It's really interesting, isn't it?
Because it actually ties intothe title of the podcast, in
that I always think that themiddle distance and long course
stuff is much more like yourunning your own business as
opposed to kind of the supportof the team, and perhaps a
little bit less so now thanhistorically.
But I think that's that it'sinteresting.
I think people don't realizehow much more you have to take

(09:07):
on responsibility for by doingthat.
I'd love to look back on yourcareers so far, because you both
had incredible careers.

Non Stanford (09:14):
What would be the standout moment for you, and
tell us the story of the momentthat you look back on so far and
say that was the standoutmoment of my career I find this
question quite hard because Ithink the highlight of my career
in that winning a worldchampionship title in 2013 on
home soil in london that wasobviously, you know, the

(09:37):
highlight of my career becomingworld champion.
But also to do that with yourfriends can be there, the apps
be.
You know, british crowd can'tbe beaten.
I honestly think we're one ofthe best sporting crowds in the
world.
When you're at home, you haveeveryone's shouting you as a
home athlete, so there's thatadvantage.
But I just think we really getbehind sport and it's always a
fantastic atmosphere whenthere's a major event in the uk.

(09:58):
So I look back on that veryfondly.
But I think one of the sort ofmore personal highlights of my
career was when I won the WorldSeries race in Hamburg in 2019.
I'd had a really tough timepost-Olympics mentally and
physically, really struggledwith the disappointment of
coming fourth in Rio and thatkind of spiraled, unfortunately,

(10:20):
and I wasn't enjoying the sportanymore.
I nearly left the sport, had alot of niggles, which I think
were probably a result of themental anymore.
I nearly left the sport, had alot of niggles, which I think
were probably a result of themental state that I was in and
just never really giving my bodythe opportunity to recover
because my mind wasn't able torecover either, and it was a
long battle.
And just to come back in 2019,after having a coaching setup

(10:41):
change and moved away from Leeds, started afresh with Joel
Filial's training group, whichis an international group.
So to come back from all ofthat and find myself back on the
top of the World Series podiumwas a really pivotal moment and
probably kept me in the sportfor those last three years as
well, knowing that I still hadwhat it took to be one of the
best in the world and to competewith the best in the world.

(11:01):
So yeah, two different races,but for two very different
reasons.

Charlie Reading (11:05):
Brilliant.
Thank you.
And before we come on to you,aaron, to pick up on the Olympic
piece, for those people thatdon't know what happened in the
Olympics, why was that sodifficult?
Tell people what happened there, and was there one or two
things that you could pinpointthat helped you turn it around
after that difficult periodpost-Olympics?

Non Stanford (11:23):
yeah, in rio 2016, I would have gone into the race
as one of the medal favoriteswhen yorkinson from america was
probably by far the favoritegold, but obviously there's two
other medals and you never knowwhat's going to happen on the
day in olympic games either.
And it came down to the lastkilometer and it was.
There was two people at theroad.
So when yorkinson and nicklespirit were up the road for gold

(11:43):
and silver, there was one medalleft and it was me and my heads
mate, really good friend,teammate, vicky Holland,
bridesmaid, bridesmaidafterwards and at that point not
.
But yeah, a few years later, mybridesmaid and I'm still a
bridesmaid as well.
But yeah, we were really closeand it was coming down just the
two of for one medal.
And we hit the blue carpet atthe same time and Vicky Amp

(12:03):
sprinted me.
So I missed out on a medal andit wasn't really about the fact
that Vicky got the bronze.
I was delighted for the factthat my friend and teammate had
won a medal and I know how hardshe'd worked for it.
It was more the personaldisappointment of feeling like
I'd underperformed on the dayand, yeah, missing out on a
medal by two seconds in the end.
You know, know, I put so muchof myself into that, as

(12:26):
everybody does.
That goes to an Olympic Games.
There's so much sacrifice andso many inspiring stories around
an Olympic Games.
You know, I obviously wasn'tthe only one, but I think to
have come so close and I put somuch of my own self-worth on
that race as well, and I justreally found it difficult to
come to terms with missing outon what I wanted to be my only
shot and ultimately ended upbeing my only shot at an Olympic

(12:49):
medal.
So, yeah, I think it was 18months really where I went to a
pretty dark place mentally.
It wasn't fun.
It was more than just about notenjoying my sport anymore.
I wasn't super happy in myselfand I got to a point where I was
like this can't go on anymore,because if you continue in this
mental state then you're introuble.

(13:09):
But worst case scenarios, itwasn't great and I just knew
that I had to remove myself frommy current situation and that
was being in Leeds.
There was nothing wrong withthe centre or anybody here, it
was just that I really neededpersonal change and to start
afresh.
So reached out to Joel Filialand he offered me a space in his
squad and, yeah, just literallymoving away, moving abroad,

(13:29):
starting with a new group ofpeople and really giving a new
opportunity was what helped meturn the corner and helped me
fall back in love with sport andlife again.

Charlie Reading (13:37):
Really, it's kind of interesting how a change
of perspective and a change oflocation is perhaps as big a
part of that as the kind ofthought process around it as
well.
And, aaron, what about yourhighlight?

Aaron Royle (13:49):
tell us the moments that stand out so far similar
to non-hamburg winning 29, eightmine's along a similar theme of
off the back of a period whereI was struggling for results,
struggling form, lost a lot ofbelief in myself, and my one was
the Canadian Open PTO race in2022, where I finished third,

(14:11):
which Gustav Iden won, thatChristian Blum was in second and
I was in third and I was thelate wildcard for the race.
I only found out about 10 daysbefore and, yeah, I think I
probably, it probably been maybethree years, I think, yeah,
probably 2019 was the last timeI probably had a race where I
felt like I was in the racecompetitive part of the race,

(14:35):
and so I lost a lot of weight inthat time, to the point where I
didn't know whether I was goingto continue racing anymore and
I thought, either, am I past it?
Have I reached my peak?
Am I no longer competitive withthese athletes?
And, yeah, I came away with athird place finish which
certainly to me felt like,especially against those guys in
that year still to this day,but particularly in that year,

(14:57):
they were quite unbeatable.
I don't think either of themlost a race other than to each
other in that last 18 months, sothat one's probably a highlight
, especially on recent times.

Claire Fudge (15:08):
And then, yeah, some world series podiums along
the way, probably up there aswell it's amazing to hear like
stories of all your races andactually the ones that really
stand out, because sometimesthey're the not so great races
and sometimes they're the bestraces, aren't they?
For both of you, what do youthink really stands out in your
mind as a race that reallytaught you something?
So it could be a race thatdidn't go particularly well, but

(15:29):
it really changed how you thencontinued in your careers in
terms of changing, perhaps, yourtraining or your psychology
around racing and training.
So are there any particularmoments in a race that really
changed how you then went on totrain or race?

Aaron Royle (15:43):
I spoke about this a little bit before, but it was
madrid world series back in 2012I think it was, and that was a
brutally hard course.
Maybe it was 2011 yeah, itwould have been 2011 because it
was like in the first yearreally of me racing on the world
series circuit and that wasobviously in the era of both
brownlees absolutely dominatingalong with javier gomez of Spain
.
That never really no one elsereally ever got a look in and

(16:06):
this course was, yeah, like Isaid, really tough course and I
had a really good.
So in the end I actually had apretty decent race.
I think I came maybe seventh oreighth and especially at that
time, first year in the worldseries, I was stoked with that,
but I just it was just such abig eye opener, being a swimmer,
having a strong swimmingbackground I was up there in the
swim and then went straightinto a hill on the bike or

(16:29):
fairly soon after the transitioninto a hill and Alistair,
johnny John Eatson-Brownlee andJavi Goodwood were there and
they just really took it to awhole new level that I didn't
think was possible, that whole40K ride.
And I just remember coming homefrom that race when I was living
in Spain, in Pretoria, at thetime.
So we came back to the Europeanbase where we based ourselves

(16:51):
and just saying to my coach weneed to really change what we're
doing, training, becausethey're up here and the rest of
the pack are quite a bit belowand if we want to get anywhere
near competitive, we're reallygoing to have to lift our game
here here.
And so that one really sticksout for me as a pivotal moment
and I don't think had Iexperienced that.
It was very specific that yeah,maybe eventually we may have

(17:13):
been exposed to that, or I'msure I would have been, but I
think it might have been a bitfurther down the line in my
career yeah, that one was for me.

Non Stanford (17:20):
I think to me it wasn't actually a bad race.
It was when I won World Ends23s in 2012.
And I think to me it wasn'tactually a bad race.
It was when I won World Ends23s in 2012.
And I think I touched on itbefore is that realisation that,
oh well, actually maybe I cando triathlon and maybe I'm okay
at this.
And I wrote a blog on the wayback from in Auckland in New
Zealand.
I wrote a blog on the plane onthe way home and I said

(17:41):
something like it'll take yearsof hard work and a whole lot of
luck to convert another 23 titleinto a senior world title.
But I made a promise to myselfthat I wouldn't be someone that
wins a world that's 23 title andjust fades away and never
really translates that intosenior success.
And so I made a commitment offthe back of that race that I

(18:01):
would say no to more things.
So I was still living probablya bit more of a student life.
I'd moved to Leeds, I'd beenhere for a year, but I still
enjoyed going out for coffee.
I'd never say no to friends.
I'd always do things thatpeople asked me to do it, and I
made a commitment to myself tosay no and to really commit to
triathlon and only ever makedecisions that were positive for

(18:23):
performance.
And so that winter I made hugesteps forward by just making
sure I went to bed early, didn'tsocialize as much as I used to.
And I'm not saying you have tobe a pivot to have success, but
I think I just made such a hugelifestyle change from being a
student athlete to being anelite athlete and, yes,
ultimately it took me a yearthen to go from being in 23 to

(18:45):
the senior world champion and Ididn't expect it to have that
much of an effect, but obviouslyit was a really profound moment
from that race forwards Amazing.
Obviously it was a reallyprofound moment from that race
forwards.

Charlie Reading (18:54):
Amazing, I think, isn't sleep the most
underrated performance enhancingadd-on?
It just seems to be.
It comes up in the podcast timeand again and I think it's an
easy one for people to miss inall walks of life.
But it really is an importantpart of it, isn't it?
So I alluded to the questionearlier, but we need to know how
you guys got together, becausethis is the first time we've had

(19:16):
a married couple on the podcastthat both professional
triathletes or were professionaltriathletes.
So tell us a bit about how yougot together, but also what were
the challenges and theadvantages, when you were both
professional athletes, being ina couple together, and how has
also that influenced?
So you're still competing,aaron, but you're now focusing

(19:39):
on coaching, non, I believe.
So how has that influencedthose kind of career choices
post-marriage?

Non Stanford (19:45):
I guess we met just through racing on the world
series circuit.
We'd be at the same race venuestime after time and we had
mutual friends.
So we're introduced throughmutual friends.
And then you'd end up going fordinner as a group after time,
and we had mutual friends, sowe're introduced through mutual
friends.
And then you'd end up going fordinner as a group after races
and that soon became going fordinner with each other and we
met dancing on the table at abar in Nice, wayne's bar in Nice

(20:05):
.

Aaron Royle (20:06):
If anyone that have been there, they'll know what
we're talking about.
At the club in Nice that, uh,all the Brits or
English-speaking people go toand it's notorious for dancing
on the table.
So that was like.

Non Stanford (20:15):
It used to be our last race of the season, because
the French Grand Prix final wasoften in Nice for many years,
and so the after party wasalways at Wayne's Bar.
So there you go.
That's where we first met.
Yeah, I guess it's worked wellover the years, in that we both
really understand the demands ofeach other's job and the
demands of this lifestyle.
You know know, it's not anine-to-five job.

(20:41):
You don't switch up at the endof the day or at the weekends.

Aaron Royle (20:42):
Triathlon is a lifestyle, ultimately, and
there's no such thing asweekends in our job, whether
it's as an athlete or now as acoach.
But not we have our easy days,of course, of training, but
sunday is no different towednesday or whatever.
It's just it's just the same.
I think probably maybe thebiggest advantage and at times
it can be a negative is we bothride that emotional wave

(21:03):
together of each other's successand all failures in quotation
marks.
When you asked the questionabout biggest career highlight
and no one was answering it, Iwas thinking in my mind what my
biggest highlight to me or herand for sure was when she won
the 2022 European Championships.
I believe, like I thinkhonestly, that's probably one of

(21:24):
the biggest highlights I've hadin sport, like watching,
whether it's myself or none,like we can have some incredible
highs off each other, but thenalso there are obviously some
lows as well, and so we bothshare those same emotions at
times.

Non Stanford (21:39):
Double the highs, double the lows.

Charlie Reading (21:40):
And on that double the lows point.
I'm just thinking, when I comein from a really tough training
session, I'm hangry.
My family know that they needto stay out of the way and just
let me get something down me,otherwise I'm going to, I'm
going to lose my rag.

Non Stanford (21:59):
You guys must come in from a hard training session
together both feet, but I meanit, does that cause problems or
does it give you more empathyfor each other?
He usually lets me shower first, so he probably feeds a nice
shower and then we swap over.
Then we probably stay out ofeach other's way for about half
an hour.
Yeah, I know.
One thing I guess that you havewhen you're both doing the same
thing is that you go to worktogether, you spend all day
together.
You come home, you spend a lotof time together, and so you're

(22:20):
not like, oh what do you have towork today?
Because I know I rode next toyou for the last four hours.
I know exactly what you've beendoing.
So you spend a lot of timetogether and that can be
challenging as well as a couple,but I think we've managed it
pretty well.

Aaron Royle (22:32):
So pretty well.
Yeah, I mean, it didn't chatsometimes limited.

Claire Fudge (22:35):
Yeah, you're tired , you spent all day together, it
sounds like it could be amazingand supportive in so many ways,
because you understand eachother, don't you?
But I can totally understandmaybe the limited conversations
on those days as well sorry,what?

Aaron Royle (22:48):
yeah, one thing I just remembered then as well is
that, um, there is very few thatwould understand this, but I we
actually bought a new housevery recently and I was away on
training camp preparing for someupcoming races which fell on
the date of our moving day.
And so, you know, non did thewhole move with the help of
family and friends whilst I wasaway on the training camp.

(23:10):
But because she's come from theathlete herself, she
understands that these trainingcamps are quite important, these
races are quite important.
I stayed and did the trainingcamp while she did the move.
Context where was the trainingcamp I was up in fort, remote up
in the french pyrenees,beautiful spot and I was in lead
, moving everything from onehouse to the other.
I guess I probably wasn't superpopular, but that's just an

(23:31):
example of she really understood.

Non Stanford (23:33):
That's a really important time for me and it
meant I could put everythingwhere I wanted to put it and he
didn't get a say in it.

Claire Fudge (23:40):
When he got back.
There's some greatunderstanding there.
Isn't there as well, of whatyou probably need out of the
house in terms of where thebike's gonna go.
So you probably have that goodunderstanding.
And, non, tell us a little bitabout this transition that you
had from your careerprofessionally into coaching.
What made you make thattransition?
Have you always wanted to coach?

(24:01):
Is it something you thought,maybe when you were competing,
that that might be somethingthat you would do?
And how have you found it?
Coaching rather than being theathlete yourself?

Non Stanford (24:11):
So I dabbled in coaching all through my career.
Really, when I first moved toLeeds, I was doing some online
coaching with age group athletesand it was a means of earning
money in a flexible manneraround my training.
You know you're not committedto go into an office or being
anywhere nice, but I could workthat around around my training

(24:31):
and it was really convenient andit worked well.
So I'd done some remotecoaching over the years, but I
hadn't really thought that Iwould go into full-time coaching
role until it was the last yearof my career it was 2022, and
the assistant coach role came upat Leeds, where at this point
I'm back training and I knewthat it was probably going to be

(24:53):
the last year that I would beracing.
I got to a point where it justdidn't mean as much to me
anymore.
I think I was in Abu Dhabi atthe end of 2021.
And it was coming down to asprint finish for about seventh
and eighth, with me and BethPotter and one of our teammates
on the side said it's going tocome down to who wants it more
in this sprint finish.

(25:13):
And I remember just thinking tomyself do know what, I really
don't care if I finish seventhor eighth year and at that point
it dawned on me that that's notthe person that I, or the
athlete that I used to be.
I used to want to fight forevery position and especially
when you're racing a fellow Brit, you always want to get the
finish ahead of another Brit.
So I think it was at that pointit started to dawn on me that
maybe it's coming to the end ofmy career.

(25:35):
But I knew in 2022 we had theCommonwealth Games and I'd made
a commitment to Team Wales torace for them, especially
because of the mixed team relay,so I wanted to get another year
out.
So when this job came up, itwas almost like it gave me the
final deadlines for my careerand for my racing, and
especially when I got the job,it was almost a sense of relief
that I could leave the sportknowing that I had something to

(25:59):
move on to, but whilst at thesame time staying within the
sport.
I loved the sport.
I hadn't fallen out of lovewith it.
I just knew that racing at thehighest level probably wasn't
for me anymore, and my body wasreally struggling.
I've got arthritis in my kneeand I was struggling to string
more than one or two goodraiders together in a season.
So it's kind of a malformationof things, and I also love the

(26:20):
idea of helping the nextgeneration fulfill their
potential and their sort ofdreams and goals and ambitions.
So, yeah, it was a really goodmove actually and whilst it is
difficult, going from being theathlete to the support network
the shift goes from being allabout you to being all about
somebody else.
I've actually quite enjoyed nothaving all the sort of

(26:42):
limelight on me in a way, andjust being sort of in the
background of other people'sjourneys.

Claire Fudge (26:46):
And yeah, there's definitely been challenging
times moving over, but on thewhole I've really enjoyed it and
found it really rewarding itsounds so positive in terms of
that transition that you havemade, because there's so many
athletes that we certainly seethat don't really know where to
transition.
It must be really difficultwhen that's been your life for
so many years.
How have you approachedcoaching and are there certain

(27:08):
things that you really learnedduring your years being coached?
Do you reflect that in thecoaching now, or are there some
really different principles thatyou reflect that in the
coaching now, or there's somereally different principles that
you've brought into yourcoaching with athletes?

Non Stanford (27:18):
I think it's really hard to not rely on what
you've learned as an athlete andnot bring that into your
coaching and learn.
From some of the fantasticcoaches that I've been very
fortunate to to work with overthe years, I'm sure I brought
elements of all of theircoaching styles into what I'm
doing.
I think it's a really finebalance, though, of using your

(27:40):
experience to help teach themand help guide them and not
being like, oh well, I did thisduring my career and, yeah, in
this race, that I did, and I'vetried really hard to not talk
too much about my career andwhat I've done, but convey the
lessons that I learned in apositive way to help them and
hopefully help them avoid makingmistakes that I made, and I've

(28:03):
learned so much from being onthe other side and and having a
different lens which to viewthrough and how you train.
I think it's much easier aswell to advise someone and see
the bigger picture than it iswith yourself.
It's very easy to give adviceand not to take it, isn't it?
And, yeah, I've definitelyfound that, with coaching, I see
a much bigger picture andunderstand things a lot better

(28:26):
than when it's just about myself.

Charlie Reading (28:28):
I understand from listening to other podcasts
where you've been on, you havea somewhat contrasting view on
using the use of technology intriathlon and coaching and all
of this sort of stuff andtechnology is something I'm
always looking for newtechnologies and new ways that
we can improve sport and spendmoney on gadgets, if nothing
else.
So it's a question for you,aaron, but I know non has the

(28:50):
more non-tech background.
I know the lead setup we'reonly introducing garmin watches
maybe eight years ago orsomething but do you embrace
technology as much as I think,and what technologies do you
think have helped you most inyour journey through racing?

Aaron Royle (29:08):
I wouldn't say I'm heavily reliant on technology
personally, but of recent yearsI've worked with coaches that
are I've invested in a littlebit because that's what they use
.
So my current coach, dan Plews,is massive on heart rate
variability.
He gets a little bit annoyedbecause whenever you say Dan
Plews, they say, are you noteating carbohydrates?

(29:30):
Because that's like his bigthing is also high fat, low carb
diet, which he doesn't do withme personally.
But he's done his PhD andwritten many papers on heart
rate variability and he's likewhy can't anyone talk to me
about this?
But obviously that's a bigtechnology piece that he uses
and because he's big on it, thenI've invested in it as well.
And especially when you'rebeing coached remotely, like I

(29:51):
am he's in New Zealand he reliesheavily on that technology to
help write a program and he cantell whether someone's adapting
to a certain block and whetherit can press on with that or
need to back off a little bit.
And so his philosophy isn'treally on a three week on one
week off cycle that a lot ofcoaches use, as in three hard

(30:12):
weeks or three built weeks andthen an easier week, just adapt
to that and then go through thatcycle again, his philosophy is
that we continue to work hard,with easy days within the block.
But we continue to work hardand if the data is telling us
that we need an easy to back offa little bit, then we we do
that.
And because he thinks thatafter three weeks, on the fourth

(30:32):
week, you might be reallysetting up the training.
So why throw in an easier weekright now, when you're in a
period where you're reallyadapted to the work that you're
doing?
But equally, you might need theeasy week after two weeks or 10
days or an easy few days afterthat period.
Yeah, that's one example ofusing technology.
He's obviously because of beinga sports scientist.
He's into the lactate, not thatI think.

(30:53):
I've been working with him for18 months now and when I first
started working with him Ididn't have a lactate monitor.
So I bought 80 strips I thinkI've still.
I haven't used them all.
It just tells you I'm not usingthem every day, but just for
key sessions or testing to getyour right training zones.

Charlie Reading (31:09):
With the heart rate variability.
Exactly what is he looking forthat tells him that you should
take that easier session?

Aaron Royle (31:15):
we use the aura ring, which obviously then gives
you your heart rateavailability yep, mine's
actually charging right now, soI normally do have one on and
then and that heart rate fortraining I'm not sure if you've
heard of that or or not, but youthen upload your data from the
aura ring and that, just over along time, gives you a trend and
if it's trending down,obviously, yeah, it gives you a
color code, basically to easilyunderstand it.

(31:38):
But he then puts that into aprogram that he's developed
himself and then he can see overperiods of time whether you're
quite low and whether it'srelated to illness, your body
temperature, your heart rateitself, so a multitude of
factors that go into it.
But essentially, yeah, he canalmost predict a little bit as
to when you may need a multitudeof factors that go into it.
But essentially, yeah, he canalmost predict a little bit as
to when you may need a bit of aneasy period, just with trends

(32:00):
over time.
That's how he uses it and Ithink like for me, it's probably
the only way that I could doremote coaching, because I'm
probably not the best atcommunicating, especially when
I'm tired it's an easy way forhim to objectively look at how
I'm doing without me having totell him, or maybe not telling
him, the whole picture.
Yeah, so that's probably, overthe years, the most
technology-based training thatI've done.

(32:22):
And then obviously, the powermeter, heart rate, all of those
sort of stuff I've used andGarmin's used for a long time.

Claire Fudge (32:28):
I think it's really interesting with all the
evolving technologies andactually how you use the data.
So it's interesting to hear yousay actually being coached
remotely.
It's a way for both of you tobe able to see trends and
training and actually if youfeel good and it looks like you
feel good, then you can get onand train.
So I really like that approachof actually using the data,
because I think so many peoplemake the mistake of collecting

(32:48):
loads of data and then they donothing with it because they
don't know what it means.
So I like the way that you'reusing it there.
I just wonder and these arenutrition-related questions as
you probably know, my backgroundis as a performance
nutritionist and clinicaldietitian, so I'm always
interested from a nutrition sideof things.
Aaron, how have you found thetransition with nutrition from

(33:10):
being short course into longercourse, because obviously
they're two different entities.
So is there anything thatyou've really learned by mistake
or things now that you'vereally optimized in terms of
nutrition?

Aaron Royle (33:22):
I think it's evolved a long way from when I
first started triathlon evensporting in general in a
positive way and not just thenutrition itself, which that has
also helped, and that's why westart to see a lot of athletes
that can compete at high intenselevels that with 130, 140, 150
grams carbohydrates you nowstart to hear, which is

(33:42):
mind-boggling like.
I even remember when I did myfirst half in 2016, it was about
one gram per body weight.
That's half roughly of whatpeople are doing nowadays, and
even then it was, but be careful, because you may get some gi
issues.
So there's that aside, and sothe nutrition products and
brands have really developedtheir products so that people
can not just stomach but thenutilize those sort of carbs.

(34:05):
But I think, just a mind shiftin general within the sport of
triathlon that to really fuelfor performance, not for body
composition.
I can remember that even when Ifirst started in short course
while racing at an internationallevel, my mindset was that I
needed to get to a certainweight first and then I'll worry

(34:27):
about getting fit after that,the back of an off season or a
period where we may not be in arace period just yet.
I knew that, okay, I needed toget to this number first, and as
long as I got to that number,then I'll worry about trying to
get fit, which is, yeah,obviously looking back now is

(34:50):
complete opposite as to what Ithink is a bit more of the norm,
and in in a good sense.
So, yeah, I think that, yeah,real big mental shift from
feeling performance first overbody composition.
I think what you say is justit's in a good sense.
So, yeah, I think that, yeah,real big mental shift from
fueling performance first overbody composition.

Claire Fudge (35:02):
I think what you say is just.
It's so important and I wonderwhether the culture has also
changed within the sport oftriathlon and in sport generally
.
Fueling yourself to be able toperform over body composition, I
think is really important.
And that brings me on Non to aquestion for you, because I
wonder you were obviously in thesport for many years.
How have you seen that changefrom a nutrition perspective?

(35:26):
How do you now coach yourathletes?
What do you see them doing froma nutrition perspective?
Has that culture really changedwithin short course?

Non Stanford (35:35):
The culture has massively changed.
Yes, so I think one of mybiggest regrets as an athlete,
when I look back at my career,is my lack of understanding of
the importance of nutrition.
I think I massively underfueled for large parts of my
career and I think that wasbecause there was this false
idea that body composition wasthe most important thing, and I

(35:58):
think that's why I got injuredquite a lot over the years, why
I got sick, because I was justchronically under-fueling.
And I do think there's been ahuge shift in people realizing
that they need to fuel theirbodies correctly, especially
with women.
It is now accepted that youshould have a menstrual cycle
and it should be regular, andjust because you're an athlete
is not an excuse not to have one, whereas when I was growing up

(36:23):
as an athlete, it was like, ohyeah, but you're an athlete, it
doesn't matter if you don't havea menstrual cycle and oh, if
you get a couple in your offseason, then that's fine, you're
totally healthy.
But that is not the case afterall, and it's such a unhealthy
mindset to have.
I think if you are coaching afemale athlete, I want to know
that they're having regularperiods, preferably every month,
and if they're not.
The first thing I wouldprobably look at is are you
fueling enough and you'regetting enough sleep?

(36:44):
Because if you're not gettingthose things, then your body's
not balanced and it's not copingwith the training load and we
can't progress the traininguntil you've got those things
sorted out.
So, yeah, I think there's beena huge shift and, like I said,
look just a general acceptancenow, and it's not true anymore
for female athletes to haveregular periods, and with
females I guess it's easierbecause we have that clear

(37:05):
marker of if our bodies arehealthy or not.
It's probably a bit moredifficult for guys and I think
the problem with men as well.
It's more uncommon for men tohave eating disorders, but with
women it's something that is farmore common.
So it's looked out for more andpeople have a closer eye on
females that are maybe losingweight quickly, but with guys it
can often fly under the radarbecause the warning signs aren't

(37:27):
there and people aren'tnecessarily as alert to it.
So it's something that you haveto keep on, really keep an eye
on with both sets of athletesreally.
And, yeah, I think everything'strending in the right direction
and people are realizing theimportance of carbs, which is a
big progress.

Charlie Reading (37:41):
We've talked about this on the podcast a few
times and particularly the maleathletes as well, because,
you're right, there's lessawareness of it.
It's less expected.
Now, I suspect it's probablynearly as big an issue if it's
not, but now that you'recoaching, are there any other
aspects that you feel need to bedifferent between coaching male
and female athletes, other thannutrition?

Non Stanford (38:02):
This is probably going to sound really
stereotypical, but from myexperience girls are just more
emotional and I feel like youride much bigger waves with
female athletes, and I am sayingthat's one of my strengths,
coach, is that maybe because Iam female, I can really relate
to the ups and downs that afemale athlete may go through.
Guys tend to be happier justgetting on with things and

(38:23):
putting their heads down andplowing on.
But again, I think you have tobe really aware of that as a
coach, because sometimes themale athletes aren't
communicating with you as welland actually they're riding a
lot of ups and downs as well,but they just don't tell you
about them.
So I sometimes find it easier inmany ways with female athletes
because you know exactly what'shappening, how they're feeling,

(38:45):
how they're coping, whereas youreally have to coax it out of
some of the guys, especially theyounger male athletes that I
work with.
I have to work really hard atforming a relationship with them
where they're comfortable andconfident to tell me how they're
feeling and what's going on,and they have put a brave face
on all the time.
So I think there's differentchallenges with different
athletes and it's I thinkthere's not one size fits all

(39:08):
for any athlete.
It's not like you deal withfemale athletes like this and
you deal with male athletes likethat.
I think you have toindividualize your coaching to
each individual athlete, becauseevery athlete needs something
different and they havedifferent life experiences to
each other.
And so approach triathlon andtraining in different ways.

Claire Fudge (39:24):
I think it's really interesting, isn't it?
And the world of research atthe moment is looking at,
actually, how do females andmales differ when we're from a
coaching perspective?
Obviously, with my interest innutrition, I think it's really
great now that there's a lotmore research in that area
coming out and the differencesthat do exist.
So, moving in a slightlydifferent direction and just
thinking back to just a coupleof months ago, aaron, I believe

(39:45):
you were in Paris and you wereguiding for one of your
teammates in the Paralympics, sodo you want to tell us a little
bit about that?
And how does that differ fromcompeting individually on your
own?
How was that experience?

Aaron Royle (39:59):
Yeah, to be honest, it was amazing.
So Sam Hart, in his name is.
He reached out to me maybeabout 14 months ago, split into
my DMs on Instagram and, yeah,we took it from there a little
bit.
But when we first spoke, I'llbe honest, I thought, great like
this would be a greatopportunity.
I'm happy to help you out, andif he was happy with his result,
then I'm happy.

(40:19):
I didn't think I'd feel soinvested but I quickly did and
at the end of the day, I'm acompetitive athlete, elite
athlete as well.
I know some other guys as well,the guy for other athletes, and
so then I started to get quitecompetitive.
I knew some of the American guy, ben Hoffman, and I was like I
want to beat you, man, this ispersonal now.

(40:41):
So, yeah, I did become quiteinvested and I really wanted him
to have the best race that hecould.
But, flip side of that,ultimately I'm there to help Sam
and it's his Paralympics andthat's what he'd been working
towards for many years, and so Icould also enjoy it a lot more
than maybe I would if it was anOlympic Games or the Olympic
Games that I've been to, becausethe pressure is much less to

(41:03):
the point of where I remember,as I was setting the same course
as the Olympic Games slightlyless crowds, but still really
good crowds and I rememberwalking down on the pontoon to
the start line, being able tolook around, take a moment and
go.
Wow, this is actually prettydamn cool, the setting of right
near the Athol Tower on theAlexander Bridge, with crowds
swimming in the sand, eventhough the water was disgusting,

(41:25):
but still it's like a prettyiconic place to have a triathlon
.
And I just, yeah, I justremember I was able to really
soak that in, whereas youordinarily probably don't.
You're just so blink of focusthat you don't really get a
chance to look around.
So, yeah, it was.
It was an amazing experience.
Uh, the race itself we actuallywe had a mechanical, so that the

(41:46):
tandem bikes they are a pieceof work because, if you think
about it, they often have out ofa corner.
It's a very technical course.
They will often have 800 watts,so 1600 watts going through the
bike between two people, whichover a regular time, over a long
period of time, things flex andmove and not always super
stable, so parts break a littlebit and yeah, we, just we end up

(42:08):
having a mechanical where thechain split and they're quite
difficult to get back on becauseit's a fixed chain, not like a
normal chain where you can pullthe derailer and get a bit of
slack on the chain and move itback on.
It was a fixed chain and costus a bit of time.
It cost him a medal.
We were about 50 seconds offthe podium and that lap that
where the chain came off wasabout 55 seconds.

(42:30):
So at the very least, a chancefor him to be fighting for a
medal at that game.
So that was obviously a littlebit disappointing in that sense,
but overall it was a, yeah,super positive experience.
When there was a couple of otherpro athletes, like I said, so,
ben hoffman from america, thewomen that won, the guide was
sarah paris seller.

Charlie Reading (42:46):
She's racing in the t100 pto tour as well, so
hopefully, like more are willingto to do it now and guides for
some other athletes as well,because, yeah, I think it's
quite a rewarding sort ofexperience I know, when nikki
bartlett's talked about it and Ithink also laura siddle did it
they just had nothing butpositive feelings that they had

(43:07):
exactly the same experience andit's a lovely way to be able to
support somebody on theirjourney.
But it's also probably is itmore like the team relay within
triathlon, because it becomes ateam sport as opposed to an
individual sport.
Would that be fair?

Aaron Royle (43:20):
yeah, that's.
Yeah, that's how I look at itas well, but maybe even less
pressure, so I can enjoy it alittle bit more.
Because obviously, in a teamrelay you're out in the race by
yourself and your directperformance has a direct impact
on the team's result, whereaseffectively based along the last
three classes.
Then the athlete be able to runfaster than him, then it's

(43:41):
happy days.
It sounds amazing.

Charlie Reading (43:43):
Now on this podcast, we always look for
things to inspire listeners togo off and to take their
learning journey further.
So are there any books or anykind of podcasts, documentaries,
films that you guys have foundinspiring on your journey or you
find yourself recommending toothers?

Aaron Royle (44:01):
Yeah, so I don't read a lot of books, one that
stands out which is quite apopular one, so I'm sure you've
maybe had it on the podcastbefore but Andre Agassi, the
Open, brilliant book Highlyrecommend it for anyone that's
listening that hasn't read thatone before.
And podcasts again.
So, down another sport route, Ivery much like the howie games,

(44:22):
which is an australian podcast.
I think it's australia's numberone sporting podcast and, yes,
there are a lot of australianguests on there.
But one particular episode forme that stands out is with kate
and bronte campbell.
They are australian swimmersand it's a really powerful
podcast for me.
I think I actually told non tolisten to it when I knew she was
going through her periodpost-Rio Olympics, because Kate

(44:44):
Campbell, also in the RioOlympics, went in as the
overwhelming favorite of the 100meters freestyle.
Could be wrong, but I'm prettysure she broke the world record
in the semifinals and then racedwell off her best in the final
and finished I believe it wasfifth or sixth and just her
recounting that story was reallypowerful.
And, yeah, I remember actuallypassing that on to Non to listen

(45:07):
to it, because I think therewas a lot of similarities in
that story.
So, yeah, I'd really highlyrecommend the Howie Games in
general, but that particularepisode Brilliant, thank you.

Charlie Reading (45:17):
I've never listened to that, so I'll be
checking that out.
Non, any things to add to that.

Non Stanford (45:21):
Yes, down the inspiring avenue.
But I really enjoy listening tothe Science of Sport podcast
with Professor Ross Tucker.
I think he touches on somereally interesting topics within
sport as a whole, but very muchwithin endurance sport.
They talk about cycling, a lottriathlon.
He's very involved with rugby,actually, so they talk about

(45:42):
rugby from time to time.
But just lots of interestingtopics that come up and some of
them are like 10 minutessnippets.
So there'll be a new study thatcomes out or a new piece of
science and he'll just do aquick podcast to discuss it from
his point of view.
Or there's other ones that arean are now.
They're much bigger dives intovarious topics.
So, yeah, the real sportsscience podcast.
I would recommend that ifyou're a bit of a sports science

(46:04):
geek.

Charlie Reading (46:05):
Brilliant, sounds fantastic, thank you.
And we also have a closingtradition on the podcast where
we get the last guest to ask thenext guest a question without
knowing who that guest is goingto be.
So the previous guest wasmichael crawley, the author of
out of thin air and to the limit, and so he's very much a
running background and I think,claire, you've got his, his

(46:25):
question, haven't you?

Claire Fudge (46:26):
yeah.
So he asks marathon records aregetting faster and faster.
Do you think we'll start tobecome slower as a species at
some point, and if so, why?

Non Stanford (46:36):
for me it boils down to do you believe that the
current marathon records havebeen done clean?
Because otherwise, why are yougoing to slow down?
Because technology and scienceis advancing.
You might not progress at thesame rate, but I don't see why
you'd get slower.

Aaron Royle (46:49):
I think you may be overthinking the question a
little bit.

Non Stanford (46:51):
Well, what were you going to say?

Aaron Royle (46:52):
No, I don't think they're going to get slower.
Of course it will slow down atsome point the rate of
progression.
I'm sure that when they weretrying to break the three-hour
marathon I don't know wheneverthat was, but at some point that
was a barrier they wouldn'thave thought that two hours was
ever achievable.
And here we are for the men atleast, not far off that.

(47:13):
So not saying that we'll everget down to an hour for the
marathon, but I don't thinkit'll ever slow down or go
backwards.

Non Stanford (47:20):
I agree.
I don't think it'll slow down.
We've got the science now andthe technology, so, as history
has shown, those things arealways advancing, so I can't see
them regressing.

Charlie Reading (47:29):
I agree, and I think it's not just the physical
science, it's also thepsychological science.
I think people we often talkabout it on the podcast about
how the longer the enduranceactivity is, the more it becomes
a mental thing than a physicalthing.
So I think that is still aspace where there's a huge
amount to learn.
And I think the science whereyou're talking about with damn

(48:00):
clues and heart rate variabilitystuff and AI bringing that into
all the data that we catch onwatches and rings and everything
else it's going to keep gettingbetter, but I can't think of a
reason why we would at somepoint go in the opposite
direction.
Claire, what do you think?
I think this is a reallyinteresting question, by the way
, so yeah, I agree.

Claire Fudge (48:09):
I think at some point it's going to slow down
because not all the technologies, but so many advances have been
so quickly because oftechnology in the more recent
years.
Who knows, charlie?
You know how quickly AI isadvancing, for example.
Maybe we'll see it continue toadvance in such a speed that we
have done.
I don't know.
I can't see it slowing down.

Charlie Reading (48:29):
I think the AI thing is an interesting factor,
isn't it?
Because if AI does more andmore of our work for us, in
theory we should get moreleisure time.
For some people, that will makethem gradually get faster and
faster, because they can maybetrain more and there'll be a
bigger pool of people training.
Maybe for other people, it willgo in the opposite direction
We'll end up with a morepolarised society than we have
even today.
But that's then getting deep.

(48:50):
Last question to finish off,for both of you, looking forward
particularly, maybe, to nextyear what are you most excited
about?

Non Stanford (48:57):
2025, is it?
Well, grand finals inWollongong.
That's where our Australianhouse is.
Hopefully we both get to travelover for that in in some
capacity or role and visit ourAustralian homes.
That's something reallyexciting to look forward to.
But that's probably a bit moreof a personal thing, but yeah,
professionally.

Aaron Royle (49:15):
I guess for me we're in a really fortunate
position in triathlon with theamount of opportunities and I
think for now it's only going toprogress.
So the opportunities next yearthat will come up, that's
something to really look forwardto.
And, as Non touched onfinishing off the year with,
hopefully, a world championshipsin Wollongong at our hometown.

Charlie Reading (49:35):
It sounds like it's teeing up for a grand
finale, and do you think you'llhead to the long course at some
point?

Aaron Royle (49:40):
The full distance.

Non Stanford (49:41):
Leeds Ironman has just been announced for next
year.

Aaron Royle (49:46):
Yeah, I think if there is a pro's build that
might have to be on the cards,it scares the living daylights
out of me but also does somewhatexcite me.
So I think before I retire andI don't know when that will be,
but before I retire I'll have tocommit fully to an ironman
burst.
My coach, dan, always thinksthat I would be well suited to

(50:07):
it, just based on somephysiology testing that we've
done.
So based off that, I think I'dhave to commit to it at some
point.
But at the moment, the middledistance and also with the pro
series now it's not just middledistance.
Obviously there's quite a fewironman races as well, but there
is such big opportunities atthe moment with the middle
distance that it's too hard toturn down.
And I don't think and I'venever had been an athlete that

(50:30):
is good enough to be able tojuggle between two I really have
to settle in and focus on onething, because, yeah, I mean I
just without doing that, I thinkthat I'll just fall too far
behind to answer your question.

Charlie Reading (50:42):
In short, yes, just when I'm not sure non aaron
, it's been absolutely fantasticchatting to you.
I think it's really interestingdynamic chatting to you guys as
a couple, but also thetransition from short course to
middle distance, from athlete tocoach.
I think there's amazing storiesthere, amazing takeaways for
people.
So thank you very much and Ihope you achieve that amazing

(51:04):
success in your hometown nextyear.

Non Stanford (51:06):
Thanks very much, and it's been a pleasure to talk
with you guys as well, so thankyou for having us on.

Aaron Royle (51:10):
Yeah, cheers, thanks very much.

Charlie Reading (51:14):
So what did you make of the interview with
Aaron and Non?

Claire Fudge (51:17):
It was fantastic to have a couple on the podcast?
I don't think certainly, sinceI've been co-hosting.
We've had that and amazinglynone of us talked over each
other.
So it worked out really well, Iwould say possibly we are.
It's really interesting to hearsome real similarities actually
in terms of not necessarilybackgrounds and coming into the
sport, but actually probablywhat's helped to make them such

(51:41):
good athletes.
And by that both of them talkedabout really focusing in on
each individual sport.
Aaron was saying about inAustralia they really hammered
home on swimming quite a lot,and Non was saying you've got to
swim with swimmers, you've gotto run with track runners.
So I think that's reallyinteresting just to hear those
real similarities coming intosport.
What about for you?

Charlie Reading (52:02):
I wrote the same thing down, ashfi, and I
think it's a common story whereyou know, interestingly, one
came to a triathlon relativelylate, one came to it really
early, but they both got thebasics, in particular in
swimming and running, and itjust shows you, doesn't't it,
that actually the experience ofdifferent things and only
niching down later on, if that'sthe way you want to go, is just

(52:24):
as powerful as niching downearly.
So I thought that was reallyinteresting.
But I also think that thediscipline of becoming a swimmer
not just the technique bit andthe fact that it helps you build
a really good engine, but thediscipline of training regularly
with swimming, seems to be aninvaluable trait for later on.
And I'm sitting here going Ineed to get my children, my

(52:46):
daughters, swimming more often.
They both do swim, but I reallydo with getting them into a
proper swim club, althoughthere's not a good one nearby.
But yeah, I thought that wasreally interesting.
What else did you take from theconversation?

Claire Fudge (53:00):
I think there's some interesting parts to this
actually in terms of from apsychological perspective,
around failure and really talkedabout on an emotional level,
actually about how she dealtwith Rio and actually how she
felt coming out of that, and Ithink it's really interesting in
terms of what she had to gothrough to be able to come out
the other side of that as well.
And I think that could also bereflected in business.

(53:22):
In business, where there'sfailures, really looking at,
actually are you enjoying whatyou're doing?
What's actually led to thatfailure?
How are you going to change thebusiness?
So I thought, thinking aboutbusiness, I was thinking
actually that's reallyinteresting kind of way to also
think about your business andthen enjoying it.
Because she was talking aboutwhere she actually, towards the
end, was thinking actually Idon't really mind whether I'm

(53:43):
coming.
I think she commented in thecoming coming, seventh or eighth
actually, and that's where sherealized that was probably the
end of her career.
So I thought that was.
I thought that was reallyreally interesting.
What are your thoughts in termsof business on that?

Charlie Reading (53:55):
I think it's absolutely right and I think
ultimately that's why I decidedI wanted to exit my financial
planning business, because mypassion had gone for it.
And I think, if you've got,there's a saying in man's search
for meaning, which is if youknow your why, you'll withstand
it anyhow.
So when you're passionate aboutsomething, you'll go the extra
mile.
You know, when you'repassionate about it, you don't
want to settle for 11th.

(54:16):
You the absolute best you canbe, and as soon as you're
willing to just settle for stuff, it shows you that the passion
has gone and you've either gotto find a way to re-inject that
passion or find something elsethat you can be passionate about
, because otherwise you'recoasting and you're never going
to do anything.
The people that coast neverachieve anything particularly
amazing, because they just don'tput their heart into it.

(54:38):
So I thought thought that wasreally interesting.
And just on that failure note, Iheard a really good saying
recently when I was listening toArianna Huffington speak and
she said that failure isn't theopposite of success, it's a
stepping towards it, and Ireally loved that.
I thought that was reallyinsightful.
But sometimes I didn't think itwas the failure.
That was the problem.
It was the fact that she didn'tcare about the failure.

(55:01):
That I thought was reallyinteresting.
So, yeah, I thought that wasfascinating.
And the other thing I reallyliked was Aaron talking about
the technology and how he'sworking with Dan Plews on that.
I thought that soundedfascinating in terms of really
understanding, instead of justbuilding a training plan with a
block.
That's easier than based onjust a assumption it's going to

(55:22):
be three weeks hard training,one week easier training, using
data like ra variability to tellyou when that should be,
because for some it's going tobe two weeks and some it's going
to be five.
That I thought was reallyinteresting as well.
What did you make of thatconversation?

Claire Fudge (55:36):
firstly, it doesn't surprise me.
You were interested in it, but,though, I was genuinely
interested as well.
I think there are very manydifferent ways of coaching,
aren't there?
I think the sports sciencebackground is very helpful in
terms of training, because, withall the data you're collecting,
it's so important that youunderstand actually what that
data means and then doingsomething with it, and it sounds
like they're really utilizingall those elements in terms of,

(55:59):
yes, that's a way to do atraining block, but actually
work with your body.
If it's saying you can get upand go and do some hard training
today, why would you not?
So that makes complete senseand yeah, so I think that was
really interesting.

Charlie Reading (56:12):
I think you're right.
I think this.
I just thought it was so muchin that conversation that I
really enjoyed and I think theother thing that I really loved
hearing about was how theysupport each other as a couple
and how being as a couple, bothunderstanding that sport and I
could, funnily enough, I canempathize because when we were
about to move house, I wasorganizing our golf tour that

(56:33):
year and I had to leave the golftour I'd organized to come home
and move house because it justwas not going to happen.
But I thought it wasinteresting that they could
support each other in adifferent way because of that
experience.
But a great conversation withtwo amazing athletes and loads
to take away.
I hope the listeners got asmuch out of that as we did.
And for those of you that arelistening at home, keep on

(56:55):
training if you want us to keepgetting amazing guests onto the
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(57:15):
One word is fine, somethinglike inspiring or amazing or
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we hope you find to be anamazing podcast.
Thanks very much.