August 20, 2025 • 27 mins
Welcome to the final episode of Season 9 of The Business of Endurance.
This season has taken us on an incredible journey - from Chris Williams of Supertri sharing his Atlantic rowing adventure and boardroom battles, to Paul Kaye, an unmistakable voice of Ironman, revealing how he built a career from scratch.
We’ve heard from trailblazing entrepreneur Simon Dent, Ironman legend Kathleen McCartney, cycling world champion Richard Oakes, and even AI Charlie - exploring how technology is reshaping sport and business.
And to top it off, Olympic great Alistair Brownlee, British Cycling CEO John Dutton OBE, Ironman champion Matt Trautman, and the incomparable Chris McCormack have all joined us with powerful lessons in resilience, mindset, and creating lasting impact.
Season 10 is coming soon and it promises to be even bigger.
This episode was sponsored by The Trusted Team and 4th Discipline
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Charlie Reading (00:06):
it's a wrap.
That is season nine of thebusiness of endurance podcast
done.
Wow, what a season it has been.
We've had some incredibleguests, I've learned a huge
amount and we've just just beeninspired by some brilliant
people, some sensationalconversations and some
(00:27):
spectacular stories.
When we look at the back end ofthis podcast, then we see
something really interesting.
We see that 57% of the peoplethat regularly listen to it
haven't hit the subscribe button.
So could I ask you a quick favorbefore we dive into today's
(00:47):
episode?
If you're enjoying Claire and Ibringing you amazing guests,
not asking you for patronagefees and not jamming the podcast
full of adverts, then the bestway you can help us continue to
do that and continue to make iteven better is to hit that
subscribe button.
And here's my promise to youwhen you subscribe we'll make it
(01:10):
our mission, along with theteam that supports us, to
continue to improve this podcastevery week.
So thank you so much for yoursupport and for being a part of
the business of endurancecommunity.
Let's dive in.
And the first guest was chriswilliams of super try, so claire
(01:34):
.
What did you?
What do you make of theconversation with chris?
What did you get out of it.
What do you remember?
Claire Fudge (01:38):
you know what stood out for you I love the
story of super try and I knowobviously we were talking about
how he got into Supertri, butjust really learning also his
background, you know the factthat he's an endurance athlete
himself and he attempted to orrode the Atlantic and also had
that big rescue as well.
So I think you know talkingabout how endurance and that
(02:02):
mindset comes into you know,being in a being in a boardroom
and creating or being part ofthat creation of um.
Super try was yeah, it was afantastic episode.
We've had a really good balance, haven't we, of, of, you know,
business professionals andex-pro athletes this season,
which has been fantastic.
What about paul k?
Because we also then hadinterviewed paul k, hadn't we?
Charlie Reading (02:25):
well, we interviewed Paul Kaye, and what
a legend.
I mean like he's the voice thatI have crossed the Ironman.
Finish two line I think everytime and just brilliant.
And what I loved about theconversation with Paul Kaye was
how he crafted his career.
I mean, he had to be big andbold, to kind of go after that
career, because I hadn'trealized until I started doing
(02:45):
the research that he wasn'temployed by Ironman.
So he went off on a tangent tobecome, to basically create a
job that didn't exist, and hedrew on his experience as a
radio producer and he drew onhis experience of setting up
jazz concerts for his dad.
He drew as an experience of asbeing an ultra, an Ironman
(03:07):
athlete, and he brought all ofthat together to create this
fantastic theatre around thestar and end of the Ironman.
And whilst he didn't come upwith the line, you are an
Ironman.
That was obviously Mike Reilly.
He's definitely added to that,but I know he's also called you
over the finish line.
So what did you make of thatconversation with Paul?
Claire Fudge (03:27):
Isn't it strange, though, to like actually see the
voice interview them thatactually you've heard so many
times in a very other emotionalstate of like of crossing a
finish line.
I thought it was reallyfascinating and actually one of
the you know, you've justtouched on it there.
One of the really fascinatingparts was how he really
choreographs the music andactually when you step back and
(03:49):
think about when you have beenat you know the start line or
the finish line, that reallyhelps an athlete, doesn't it?
And actually him talkingthrough why they craft it the
way that they do and choreographit the way they do with the
music, I thought was reallyreally interesting.
But just amazing stories andreally, like him talking about
(04:13):
you know the why and his why andwhy that drives us all um and
how he's really able to get toum, that really kind of
emotional place in an athleteduring that event when you're
practically crawling, you know,across the finish line.
Just an amazing, amazinginterview and just learned so
much more about him, andactually that you know area of
commentating as well.
Now you interviewed Simon Dent.
I wasn't there, unfortunately,but I did listen back and tell
(04:36):
me what you took away from theheated shoe idea.
Charlie Reading (04:42):
Well, I got loads from that interview and it
was way more than just heatedshoes.
So what?
What I think was amazing?
I mean, obviously he's donesome amazing things in the
endurance world himself, so thatwas that was fantastic to hear.
What I've loved, what I lovedabout that conversation was his
ability to set up companies inindustries that he had no
(05:03):
previous experience in whetherit was being a sports agent,
whether it was publishing,whether it was marketing, and
then build a successful businessand then be able to sell that
business or to have thatbusiness running without him.
So that, to me, was aphenomenal demonstration of how
you can build a business butwithout being bogged down in the
weeds and also without havingto you know, because actually
(05:24):
most entrepreneurs tend to bethe greatest bottleneck in their
business, and Simon done agreat job of showing how that's
not necessary, because he'd hadthese business that is grown,
but he didn't.
He wasn't even the expert inthat field, so that I really
loved.
And of course, there was theAtacama, the heated shoe, the
kind of the thing that allowsyour shoes to last longer.
(05:46):
I loved also that that promiseof the donations that are
offsetting the little bit ofplastic that has to go into it,
then donating to a charity thattook a plastic out of the ocean.
So I thought that was a reallynice corporate play as well, and
I think I think we can alllearn from that.
And it probably actually goesback to that, that principle
(06:09):
that you've just talked aboutwith Paul, and and really
knowing your why and when youknow your why and you can
communicate your why, thenpeople have so much more
connection with what you'redoing.
So so that was that was, um,yeah, a really interesting
interview, and of course, he'sabout the.
You know when this goes live.
He probably will have alreadydone it or he might be in the
middle of it.
(06:29):
I'm not quite sure the timings,but he's about to run with some
other rugby players betweeneach of the lions tests, and so
that's going to be a phenomenalamazing achievement, as well as
raising a huge amount of moneyfor charity.
I'm sure and then, next up, wehad the incredible Kathleen
McCartney, who I was luckyenough to hang out with a couple
of times, actually while I wasout in Kona, and yeah, I mean,
(06:52):
obviously she was part of thatamazing moment in Iron man
history.
But what did you get from theinterview with Kathleen
McCartney?
Claire Fudge (06:59):
I, we, you know we interviewed some amazing people
but, like, this is one of theold school legends and to
interview her was just amazingbecause actually starting out in
Ironman as I'm sure many of ourlisteners who do Ironman will
also agree it's like you hear ofthese names, you read the
stories, you watch those videosthat we see now on YouTube Just
(07:23):
amazing.
So to interview her and findout the story behind actually
again, why did she do you know?
Why was she taking part inIronman?
Um, you know this reallyinexperienced um, uh, student in
college and she wins the 1982Ironman and of course, we heard
about her side of the story withJudy Moss as well and really
(07:46):
you know what she, she, she cameback to endurance sports, you
know, after she had her childrenand that story was amazing to
hear about how actually thatreally helped her after children
, kind of re-find what you know,what she was looking for and,
of course, through divorce aswell.
What did you take from theinterview?
Charlie Reading (08:05):
I think I mean mean agree, it was brilliant um
to hear her side of the story,um, of that iconic Julie Moss
moment.
Um was was tremendous.
But I also loved how she usedshe talked about the community
around Ironman and you know,when she was going through her
divorce and also when Julie wasgoing through her divorce, they
(08:27):
came together and that communityhelped, they supported each
other and they went off and didan Iron man together so that
they could help each otherthrough that divorce.
But also the power of thatcommunity to help them through
difficult times really shonethrough with Kathleen, really
shone through with Kathleen.
And I think and and probably itshone through for me because I
witnessed it firsthand when Isaw, you know, I got to hang out
(08:47):
with people like her and andMark Allen in Kona and it just
that, that um, that tribe, thatcommunity really shone through
um in that environment.
So, yeah, absolutely brilliant.
And then next up, we had theincredible Richard Oakes of
track cycling and BusinessConsultancy.
So what do you remember fromthe interview with Richard?
Claire Fudge (09:10):
Well, we kind of went in lots of different
directions, didn't we?
Interviewing Richard?
And he's got, you know, I mean,first of all, you know,
listening to his stories behindyou know him himself being a
four time world champion, anational record holder, as well
as having a team as well, Ithink it was it the world's
fastest cycling team, I think.
(09:32):
Was that correct?
Charlie Reading (09:32):
I think there was something along.
I think there's a tagline ofsomething like that.
Yeah.
Claire Fudge (09:36):
Yeah, so he's brought you know and talks about
his experience of being thisworld class athlete, but also
now he's coaching and teachingbusinesses how to perform under
pressure as well.
So I thought that was a reallyinteresting conversation that
brought those two parts verymuch together being the athlete
(09:56):
whilst being a professional inbusiness and then going into
businesses and coaching as well.
So I thought that was a really,really interesting interview
with him.
Charlie Reading (10:08):
And I would agree, I think he brought out a
huge.
So I think he's clearly very,very detail orientated in terms
of getting the very best out ofhis performances, both on the
track or on the bike and inbusiness.
And I think you know that storyof where he is setting the hour
record and he falls off thebike because he's given
(10:30):
absolutely every ounce of energyhe's got and he falls off and
he breaks his collarbone but hestill has to finish the lap for
it to be a qualifying record, sohe finishes the lap.
I mean that's just incredible.
I think that's fantastic.
And then I think how wecontinued throughout that
episode to draw the lessons fromthe world of endurance sport
and apply them to business.
(10:50):
I thought that was, that wasexcellent and it's and you know,
that's really worth listeningto that episode for that
principle alone, I think.
Um, and then we had a ratherunusual guest, didn't we?
We had AI Charlie on.
What did you make?
Because you hadn't seen as muchof AI Charlie as obviously I'd
seen building it.
So what did you make of havingmy AI clone?
Claire Fudge (11:12):
yeah.
Well, I mean you're, you'revery close to AI Charlie, of
course, charlie, so do you knowwhat I?
I found it like I think therewere so many, there were so many
kind of parts to this, to thisepisode as well, because one
actually seeing what is possibleif you utilize AI in a way that
can really help your business,and I think that's number one
(11:33):
that came out for me.
I was like actually like, ifyou feed the right information
and use the right type of AI inyour business, it be really,
really useful.
And I love the way that, withall the information that you had
given AI Charlie, it was ableto recall and actually have a
conversation with you.
I mean that was excellent.
(11:54):
Like there were yes, there wasa little bit of delay, wasn't
there, but but the actualconversation, um, there was
actually a little bit of kind ofhim being a little bit funny as
well.
I don't know whether you builtthat in Charlie or not.
Obviously it's taken that fromme, hasn't it?
Yeah, well, obviously,obviously, yeah, I won't say
that he was a bit slow with hisreplies, but you know, I don't
know where he got that from, butI thought it was brilliant and
(12:25):
actually what was great is thatyou could ask a specific
question and it was able to drawon all of those, all of those
interviews that that we've donein the past and actually that
you've done right from the very,you know, very beginning, which
was super interesting to seewhich, which episodes and which
guests it drew upon to give anexample.
So I really loved it.
Actually, it's a really goodepisode to go back and listen to
and actually reminded me aswell of episodes that I haven't
(12:46):
remembered and thought actuallyI'm going to listen to that, and
even some that when I wasn't aco-host that I thought actually
I haven't listened to.
That that's actually soundsbrilliant.
So I loved it.
I really enjoyed it.
Charlie Reading (12:56):
I thought it was spectacular, wasn't it?
I mean it?
Just like I wasn't quite sure,obviously, when we recorded that
.
I wasn't quite sure whether wewere going to be brave enough to
actually use it as an episode,because, you know, you're never
quite convinced particularlywhat fascinated me I mean, I
knew it had the knowledge,because I've obviously made sure
all of that is uploaded andI've had conversations with it
(13:18):
before about that stuff to testit but what fascinated me was
whether two people iee me andyou interviewing it as co-hosts
would confuse it.
That's what.
what intrigued me and in fact,other than us getting confused
and realizing that we needed tokind of give it a chance to.
You know, we needed to pause,to give it a chance to, to were
(13:40):
and come up with it, which isonly like seconds, isn't it?
But I thought it was amazingand, you're right, it reminded
me of some stories that I had,or examples in situations where
I wouldn't have remembered thatthat was a particular thing.
So it's really powerful and,yeah, it's, and it's something
that I would.
If you go to the trust to seewebsite, by the way, you can
actually go and chat to aicharlie.
(14:01):
You can ask AI Charlie somequestions about which episodes
you should listen to, or how youcan fuel your races better, or
whatever it is.
Um, there's, just go playaround with it.
It's, it's unbelievable.
And then, next up, we hadsomebody I've wanted to have on
the podcast for forever.
Actually, he was one of thefirst people I thought of when
(14:23):
we started the podcast.
He was right at the top of thelist and finally we managed to
have an amazing interview withhim, and that was, of course,
alistair Brownlee.
So what did you make from thatinterview?
Claire Fudge (14:34):
It was great because, you know, like you, I
think, in this era and we werejust chatting before this in
this era of Olympic distance andtriathlon and sport, these are
the names that come to mind,aren't they?
They are the names of the UK, ofthese brothers, and so
interviewing Alistair was justfantastic and you know, he
really came across as being areally humble, very deep
(14:56):
thinking human being, and Ithink there was so much that
came out of this interview aboutwho he really is and the person
, the human behind this reallyhigh performing athlete, um and
and really interesting about himtalking about you know his
identity and finding his spacein this world of retirement as
(15:16):
well.
You know where do you go aftercompeting at such a high level
and being in the limelight thewhole time?
Where does that take you?
You know how is he managingtime.
Where does that take you?
You know how is he managing.
So I mean, that was just youknow, the edge of what we
explored.
But you know what, for you, didyou really sort of take away
from that, from thatconversation, that that we had?
Charlie Reading (15:35):
there was a few things.
I loved the advice that he gotfrom Malcolm, his coach, which
was you can basically Malcolmteaching him that he could win,
but only by a stride.
So it was like you're capableof winning, but don't be cocky
about it.
You've got to give everything,and if you give everything,
you're absolutely capable ofwinning, but only by a stride.
(15:57):
So that I really loved and I'veused that a couple of times
since, because I think it'sreally powerful message.
And then other message whichactually all came out of that
same conversation between himand Malcolm was that pressure is
a privilege.
You know, when you're feelingthe pressure, it's because
you've earned the opportunity tofeel the pressure, and I think
that's also a really powerfulmessage which I really liked.
(16:19):
So, yeah, I thought it was afantastic interview and I was
delighted to get the opportunityto chat to him.
He was actually speaking at anevent um near my home a few few
weeks ago.
My best man well, notunfortunately, but my best man
was over from kuala lumpur andit just happened to be that same
time that we were, we weremeeting up, so I couldn't.
(16:39):
I couldn't go see him speak,but just like, like you say,
just a really humble, lovely,lovely guy that has given so
much to the sport and so manyamazing stories, including that
special moment with his brotherhelping his brother across the
line in Cosmel.
And then next up, we had JohnDutton OBE, the CEO of British
(17:01):
Cycling.
So what do you remember fromthat interview, claire?
Claire Fudge (17:06):
uh, the ceo of british cycling.
So what do you remember fromthat interview, claire?
Yeah, so we'd both met him whenyou were speaking at an event
um a few months before, didn'twe?
Um, so we we'd got to know hima little bit and it was it.
I mean, he's fantastic tointerview actually, to start off
with well, I wouldn't even sayinterview, like he's.
He's a really good storyteller,um, you know, and his experience
you you know.
He just told of, like, wherehe's come from and you know,
(17:29):
from that background in, um, therugby league world cup, and you
know what happened during thattime, um, you know, through to
um, obviously, um, leadingBritish cycling into Paris 2024.
So there were so many storiesthat he told and, and all of
which they all had a purpose, Iguess, to his storytelling.
(17:49):
You know what it taught him,what he learned from it and
actually how he has then changed, how he is now in his role as
CEO in British Cycling.
So I just thought it was reallyinteresting and he touched a
lot on as we have with manyguests, on this idea of why
actually, you know, mindset isso important and I don't know,
(18:13):
you know almost that that was asimportant.
I'm not sure if you had thesame feeling as you know,
looking at physiology and youknow, and, of course, the bike
in terms of you know athletes.
I just thought it was a really,it was a really good episode
for me to listen to and actuallyreally learn from.
Charlie Reading (18:31):
Yeah, no, I would agree.
I think I was just looking downat my notes actually because it
was a brilliant conversationwith with John I mean I love,
genuinely, just lovely guy, likeyou say.
We got the opportunity to havedinner with him when I was
speaking at the RAC club and youknow he talked wonderfully
about company culture and theimportance of culture and you
know how he measured thatthrough a happiness index, which
(18:53):
I thought was fantastic,embracing the challenge and
being sort of bold and brave Ithought I loved that term that
he used a few times and makingpermanent and positive change
and kind of understanding values.
And I particularly remember himtalking about how they used
their values to make thedecision about whether to go
ahead with the Rugby World Cupor not, and when they looked at
(19:16):
the values they were like we'vegot to push ahead with this,
even though Covid is kind ofputting the massive roadblock in
the way.
So I think there was a lot ofbrilliant, um, brilliant
insights from a business pointof view as well as from a
sporting point of view as well.
And then and then we ended upwith that.
So then the next episode wasmatty troutman, wasn't it?
And he was the south africanironman athlete, um, that had a
(19:41):
horrible, horrible crash,getting taken out from behind by
by a car, and then he battlesto recover through that, uh, and
, and you know, just does, youknow, has to clearly work very
hard, both psychologically andphysiologically, to get back to
the point where he can race ironman again as a professional and
(20:01):
then to have when, when I wasracing in south af Africa last
year, he got, he gets blownclean off the bike, um, after
hitting a pothole and I thinkyou know a little bit of air and
again and that ends his career.
Um, I thought that was a reallyinteresting and inspiring
conversation in the sense thathe had to, you know, he had to
battle through that that twiceand um, so, yeah, I, I, I really
(20:24):
enjoyed that, that interview,and I think, I think there's a
lot of lessons that we can drawfrom on that.
And then the final interviewwas Maka.
Yeah, Again another absolutelegend from the world of Iron
man.
So, chris McCormack Maka, whatdid you make of that interview?
Claire Fudge (20:43):
I totally agree.
Again, you know some of thepeople that I think we had a
little conversation after wefinished um, that episode and I
didn't say it to him at the timebut maybe I should have is the
first year that I did.
I did Ironman, um, when I wasfirst competing, is the year
that I think he'd won the worldchampionships and he was the
name right, like he was the namethat people wanted to to beat.
(21:05):
There were those stories thathe was talking about.
You, like he was the name thatpeople wanted to to beat and
there were those stories that hewas talking about.
You know this idea of what themedia was portraying him, as you
know, and he, you know he wasrightly talking about.
Actually, at the time therewere magazines, right, you, you
read it in a magazine andwhereas now athletes have this
very different voice on socialmedia and can create their own
story about themselves rather,or you know, being that human
being, rather than somebody elsecreating that story behind him.
(21:28):
So I was really interestedbecause I actually came into
this thinking you know ChrisMcCormack, the person that he
was portrayed in a magazine, tospeaking to him.
What a different character.
I just thought, like it's sofunny.
I mean I don't think I'velaughed so much in an episode.
He was just brilliant, like youknow, really fun to listen to
(21:49):
and I just love this kind ofstory of him, just like nothing
was going to stop him, was it?
You know his story of, like youknow, in his teens, like going
and living in France, like itjust got worse and worse, didn't
it?
Of like how he was going tosurvive and I just loved it.
That this kind of pursuit oftriathlon and like making it
(22:10):
work, the story with his dad andmoving away from Australia just
thought was just amazing and Iloved.
I mean, I'd love to hear yourtake on it.
Actually, what was your take onthe?
The story behind you being yourown CEO and then really having
your your team around you whenyou're an athlete?
Charlie Reading (22:30):
um, I, I thought it was.
It was absolutely brilliant, itwas epic and it was probably.
I think it's one of thoseepisodes and there's been plenty
over, over, the, over the, Idon't know what I've been doing
this five years now maybe, Ithink.
I think I've been doing thepodcast five years and there's
occasionally episodes where yougo in thinking this will be a
good one and it's way, way.
(22:52):
you know, it's like one of thebest and I didn't immediately
see it coming, even though Ireally loved his book.
It just stood out for so manyreasons.
But I think this what I reallyliked was his approach as a
teenager when he was a teenageror early 20s, I can't remember
but when he was young and he andhe left that business job and
(23:13):
he moved to France and hepursued triathlon with really
kind of like, basically I'mgonna make it work, but it's
gonna be, you know, like I don'treally know what I'm doing, but
I'm gonna find my way.
Claire Fudge (23:25):
he pursued but I think that actually helped him,
didn't it the fact?
Charlie Reading (23:28):
he didn't really know what he was doing
but the same approach has nowworked phenomenally well in
business for him.
You know he's like oh yeah,yeah, I can do that.
I've kind of done this beforeand I'm just like I haven't.
I mean like and then work outhow to do it yeah, if you sell
it first and then you work outhow to deliver it afterwards,
and I think that's brilliant.
You know his, his confidence ofgoing yeah, I can work that out
(23:51):
.
How difficult can that be?
Come on, let's get going, getsome commitment and and actually
his enthusiasm was infectiousand you can see why in business,
why people will go.
Yeah, he must know what he'stalking about, of course, you
know, because good energy kindof has people following and so I
thought that was brilliant.
Um, and yeah, just that wholeidea of selling super try and
(24:13):
how he got the Thai hot hoteland kind of fitness resort yeah,
up and up and run it, just Imean, that was just so many
great stories wasn't there andand obviously his stories around
the Kona winds and and the Konadisasters and his humbling and
his smack talking to othercompetitors.
I mean, there's just so muchthere isn't there.
Claire Fudge (24:34):
Yeah, there is.
Charlie Reading (24:36):
And what a wonderful episode to finish what
has been a phenomenal,phenomenal season.
So that's our wrap up forseason nine, but fear ye not,
you're not going to have long towait for season 10 and, as a
bit of a kind of like teaser,we've got some rather incredible
people lined up for season 10.
(24:57):
Now we're going to keep them asecret, of course, yes, but give
, giving me a bit of adescription of a couple of
people that you've, we know,we've got lined up for season 10
that you're, you think, aregoing to be special interviews
well, what I would say is wehave some old school, which is
exciting again to interview somevery old school people, which
(25:21):
will be fantastic and actuallyjust I'm just looking at the
names down the list and we havequite a few of those.
Claire Fudge (25:27):
It's pretty deep in some amazing people.
I am excited from a physiologyperspective, like super excited,
because that's my space.
So I'm really excited tointerview one of these people on
the list in particular, dippinginto a little bit of other
areas as well.
So what about for you?
Charlie Reading (25:46):
I think you're right, so that there's.
There's two names from the,maybe three, two names from the,
historically like two namesthat are so synonymous with
endurance sport that it's justit's.
It's freaking awesome.
Claire Fudge (26:02):
That is, that is what all I will say if it came
up in a pub quiz, you definitelywould remember it honestly just
unbelievable.
Charlie Reading (26:10):
um and and then you're right, there's a real
interesting mix, and I thinkthere's a good couple of
corporate speakers in there thatcan give us a really brilliant
insight in both thatrelationship between business
and sport, and I think there'ssome.
I think there's two names thatstand out there the physiology
person I know exactly who you'retalking about and that's going
(26:30):
to be really exciting.
We haven't interviewed her yet.
We'll give a little teaseraround that, but that's going to
be really cool.
Yeah, we've got some amazingepisodes lined up, some amazing
interviews, some of which we'vealready done, and we know
they're amazing, some of whichwe haven't done yet.
So stay tuned for season 10 ofthe Business of Endurance
podcast.
It'll be out soon and in themeantime, keep on training.
it's a wrap.
That is season nine of thebusiness of endurance podcast
done.
Wow, what a season it has been.
We've had some incredibleguests, I've learned a huge
amount and we've just just beeninspired by some brilliant
people, some sensationalconversations and some
(00:27):
spectacular stories.
When we look at the back end ofthis podcast, then we see
something really interesting.
We see that 57% of the peoplethat regularly listen to it
haven't hit the subscribe button.
So could I ask you a quick favorbefore we dive into today's
(00:47):
episode?
If you're enjoying Claire and Ibringing you amazing guests,
not asking you for patronagefees and not jamming the podcast
full of adverts, then the bestway you can help us continue to
do that and continue to make iteven better is to hit that
subscribe button.
And here's my promise to youwhen you subscribe we'll make it
(01:10):
our mission, along with theteam that supports us, to
continue to improve this podcastevery week.
So thank you so much for yoursupport and for being a part of
the business of endurancecommunity.
Let's dive in.
And the first guest was chriswilliams of super try, so claire
(01:34):
.
What did you?
What do you make of theconversation with chris?
What did you get out of it.
What do you remember?
Claire Fudge (01:38):
you know what stood out for you I love the
story of super try and I knowobviously we were talking about
how he got into Supertri, butjust really learning also his
background, you know the factthat he's an endurance athlete
himself and he attempted to orrode the Atlantic and also had
that big rescue as well.
So I think you know talkingabout how endurance and that
(02:02):
mindset comes into you know,being in a being in a boardroom
and creating or being part ofthat creation of um.
Super try was yeah, it was afantastic episode.
We've had a really good balance, haven't we, of, of, you know,
business professionals andex-pro athletes this season,
which has been fantastic.
What about paul k?
Because we also then hadinterviewed paul k, hadn't we?
Charlie Reading (02:25):
well, we interviewed Paul Kaye, and what
a legend.
I mean like he's the voice thatI have crossed the Ironman.
Finish two line I think everytime and just brilliant.
And what I loved about theconversation with Paul Kaye was
how he crafted his career.
I mean, he had to be big andbold, to kind of go after that
career, because I hadn'trealized until I started doing
(02:45):
the research that he wasn'temployed by Ironman.
So he went off on a tangent tobecome, to basically create a
job that didn't exist, and hedrew on his experience as a
radio producer and he drew onhis experience of setting up
jazz concerts for his dad.
He drew as an experience of asbeing an ultra, an Ironman
(03:07):
athlete, and he brought all ofthat together to create this
fantastic theatre around thestar and end of the Ironman.
And whilst he didn't come upwith the line, you are an
Ironman.
That was obviously Mike Reilly.
He's definitely added to that,but I know he's also called you
over the finish line.
So what did you make of thatconversation with Paul?
Claire Fudge (03:27):
Isn't it strange, though, to like actually see the
voice interview them thatactually you've heard so many
times in a very other emotionalstate of like of crossing a
finish line.
I thought it was reallyfascinating and actually one of
the you know, you've justtouched on it there.
One of the really fascinatingparts was how he really
choreographs the music andactually when you step back and
(03:49):
think about when you have beenat you know the start line or
the finish line, that reallyhelps an athlete, doesn't it?
And actually him talkingthrough why they craft it the
way that they do and choreographit the way they do with the
music, I thought was reallyreally interesting.
But just amazing stories andreally, like him talking about
(04:13):
you know the why and his why andwhy that drives us all um and
how he's really able to get toum, that really kind of
emotional place in an athleteduring that event when you're
practically crawling, you know,across the finish line.
Just an amazing, amazinginterview and just learned so
much more about him, andactually that you know area of
commentating as well.
Now you interviewed Simon Dent.
I wasn't there, unfortunately,but I did listen back and tell
(04:36):
me what you took away from theheated shoe idea.
Charlie Reading (04:42):
Well, I got loads from that interview and it
was way more than just heatedshoes.
So what?
What I think was amazing?
I mean, obviously he's donesome amazing things in the
endurance world himself, so thatwas that was fantastic to hear.
What I've loved, what I lovedabout that conversation was his
ability to set up companies inindustries that he had no
(05:03):
previous experience in whetherit was being a sports agent,
whether it was publishing,whether it was marketing, and
then build a successful businessand then be able to sell that
business or to have thatbusiness running without him.
So that, to me, was aphenomenal demonstration of how
you can build a business butwithout being bogged down in the
weeds and also without havingto you know, because actually
(05:24):
most entrepreneurs tend to bethe greatest bottleneck in their
business, and Simon done agreat job of showing how that's
not necessary, because he'd hadthese business that is grown,
but he didn't.
He wasn't even the expert inthat field, so that I really
loved.
And of course, there was theAtacama, the heated shoe, the
kind of the thing that allowsyour shoes to last longer.
(05:46):
I loved also that that promiseof the donations that are
offsetting the little bit ofplastic that has to go into it,
then donating to a charity thattook a plastic out of the ocean.
So I thought that was a reallynice corporate play as well, and
I think I think we can alllearn from that.
And it probably actually goesback to that, that principle
(06:09):
that you've just talked aboutwith Paul, and and really
knowing your why and when youknow your why and you can
communicate your why, thenpeople have so much more
connection with what you'redoing.
So so that was that was, um,yeah, a really interesting
interview, and of course, he'sabout the.
You know when this goes live.
He probably will have alreadydone it or he might be in the
middle of it.
(06:29):
I'm not quite sure the timings,but he's about to run with some
other rugby players betweeneach of the lions tests, and so
that's going to be a phenomenalamazing achievement, as well as
raising a huge amount of moneyfor charity.
I'm sure and then, next up, wehad the incredible Kathleen
McCartney, who I was luckyenough to hang out with a couple
of times, actually while I wasout in Kona, and yeah, I mean,
(06:52):
obviously she was part of thatamazing moment in Iron man
history.
But what did you get from theinterview with Kathleen
McCartney?
Claire Fudge (06:59):
I, we, you know we interviewed some amazing people
but, like, this is one of theold school legends and to
interview her was just amazingbecause actually starting out in
Ironman as I'm sure many of ourlisteners who do Ironman will
also agree it's like you hear ofthese names, you read the
stories, you watch those videosthat we see now on YouTube Just
(07:23):
amazing.
So to interview her and findout the story behind actually
again, why did she do you know?
Why was she taking part inIronman?
Um, you know this reallyinexperienced um, uh, student in
college and she wins the 1982Ironman and of course, we heard
about her side of the story withJudy Moss as well and really
(07:46):
you know what she, she, she cameback to endurance sports, you
know, after she had her childrenand that story was amazing to
hear about how actually thatreally helped her after children
, kind of re-find what you know,what she was looking for and,
of course, through divorce aswell.
What did you take from theinterview?
Charlie Reading (08:05):
I think I mean mean agree, it was brilliant um
to hear her side of the story,um, of that iconic Julie Moss
moment.
Um was was tremendous.
But I also loved how she usedshe talked about the community
around Ironman and you know,when she was going through her
divorce and also when Julie wasgoing through her divorce, they
(08:27):
came together and that communityhelped, they supported each
other and they went off and didan Iron man together so that
they could help each otherthrough that divorce.
But also the power of thatcommunity to help them through
difficult times really shonethrough with Kathleen, really
shone through with Kathleen.
And I think and and probably itshone through for me because I
witnessed it firsthand when Isaw, you know, I got to hang out
(08:47):
with people like her and andMark Allen in Kona and it just
that, that um, that tribe, thatcommunity really shone through
um in that environment.
So, yeah, absolutely brilliant.
And then next up, we had theincredible Richard Oakes of
track cycling and BusinessConsultancy.
So what do you remember fromthe interview with Richard?
Claire Fudge (09:10):
Well, we kind of went in lots of different
directions, didn't we?
Interviewing Richard?
And he's got, you know, I mean,first of all, you know,
listening to his stories behindyou know him himself being a
four time world champion, anational record holder, as well
as having a team as well, Ithink it was it the world's
fastest cycling team, I think.
(09:32):
Was that correct?
Charlie Reading (09:32):
I think there was something along.
I think there's a tagline ofsomething like that.
Yeah.
Claire Fudge (09:36):
Yeah, so he's brought you know and talks about
his experience of being thisworld class athlete, but also
now he's coaching and teachingbusinesses how to perform under
pressure as well.
So I thought that was a reallyinteresting conversation that
brought those two parts verymuch together being the athlete
(09:56):
whilst being a professional inbusiness and then going into
businesses and coaching as well.
So I thought that was a really,really interesting interview
with him.
Charlie Reading (10:08):
And I would agree, I think he brought out a
huge.
So I think he's clearly very,very detail orientated in terms
of getting the very best out ofhis performances, both on the
track or on the bike and inbusiness.
And I think you know that storyof where he is setting the hour
record and he falls off thebike because he's given
(10:30):
absolutely every ounce of energyhe's got and he falls off and
he breaks his collarbone but hestill has to finish the lap for
it to be a qualifying record, sohe finishes the lap.
I mean that's just incredible.
I think that's fantastic.
And then I think how wecontinued throughout that
episode to draw the lessons fromthe world of endurance sport
and apply them to business.
(10:50):
I thought that was, that wasexcellent and it's and you know,
that's really worth listeningto that episode for that
principle alone, I think.
Um, and then we had a ratherunusual guest, didn't we?
We had AI Charlie on.
What did you make?
Because you hadn't seen as muchof AI Charlie as obviously I'd
seen building it.
So what did you make of havingmy AI clone?
Claire Fudge (11:12):
yeah.
Well, I mean you're, you'revery close to AI Charlie, of
course, charlie, so do you knowwhat I?
I found it like I think therewere so many, there were so many
kind of parts to this, to thisepisode as well, because one
actually seeing what is possibleif you utilize AI in a way that
can really help your business,and I think that's number one
(11:33):
that came out for me.
I was like actually like, ifyou feed the right information
and use the right type of AI inyour business, it be really,
really useful.
And I love the way that, withall the information that you had
given AI Charlie, it was ableto recall and actually have a
conversation with you.
I mean that was excellent.
(11:54):
Like there were yes, there wasa little bit of delay, wasn't
there, but but the actualconversation, um, there was
actually a little bit of kind ofhim being a little bit funny as
well.
I don't know whether you builtthat in Charlie or not.
Obviously it's taken that fromme, hasn't it?
Yeah, well, obviously,obviously, yeah, I won't say
that he was a bit slow with hisreplies, but you know, I don't
know where he got that from, butI thought it was brilliant and
(12:25):
actually what was great is thatyou could ask a specific
question and it was able to drawon all of those, all of those
interviews that that we've donein the past and actually that
you've done right from the very,you know, very beginning, which
was super interesting to seewhich, which episodes and which
guests it drew upon to give anexample.
So I really loved it.
Actually, it's a really goodepisode to go back and listen to
and actually reminded me aswell of episodes that I haven't
(12:46):
remembered and thought actuallyI'm going to listen to that, and
even some that when I wasn't aco-host that I thought actually
I haven't listened to.
That that's actually soundsbrilliant.
So I loved it.
I really enjoyed it.
Charlie Reading (12:56):
I thought it was spectacular, wasn't it?
I mean it?
Just like I wasn't quite sure,obviously, when we recorded that
.
I wasn't quite sure whether wewere going to be brave enough to
actually use it as an episode,because, you know, you're never
quite convinced particularlywhat fascinated me I mean, I
knew it had the knowledge,because I've obviously made sure
all of that is uploaded andI've had conversations with it
(13:18):
before about that stuff to testit but what fascinated me was
whether two people iee me andyou interviewing it as co-hosts
would confuse it.
That's what.
what intrigued me and in fact,other than us getting confused
and realizing that we needed tokind of give it a chance to.
You know, we needed to pause,to give it a chance to, to were
(13:40):
and come up with it, which isonly like seconds, isn't it?
But I thought it was amazingand, you're right, it reminded
me of some stories that I had,or examples in situations where
I wouldn't have remembered thatthat was a particular thing.
So it's really powerful and,yeah, it's, and it's something
that I would.
If you go to the trust to seewebsite, by the way, you can
actually go and chat to aicharlie.
(14:01):
You can ask AI Charlie somequestions about which episodes
you should listen to, or how youcan fuel your races better, or
whatever it is.
Um, there's, just go playaround with it.
It's, it's unbelievable.
And then, next up, we hadsomebody I've wanted to have on
the podcast for forever.
Actually, he was one of thefirst people I thought of when
(14:23):
we started the podcast.
He was right at the top of thelist and finally we managed to
have an amazing interview withhim, and that was, of course,
alistair Brownlee.
So what did you make from thatinterview?
Claire Fudge (14:34):
It was great because, you know, like you, I
think, in this era and we werejust chatting before this in
this era of Olympic distance andtriathlon and sport, these are
the names that come to mind,aren't they?
They are the names of the UK, ofthese brothers, and so
interviewing Alistair was justfantastic and you know, he
really came across as being areally humble, very deep
(14:56):
thinking human being, and Ithink there was so much that
came out of this interview aboutwho he really is and the person
, the human behind this reallyhigh performing athlete, um and
and really interesting about himtalking about you know his
identity and finding his spacein this world of retirement as
(15:16):
well.
You know where do you go aftercompeting at such a high level
and being in the limelight thewhole time?
Where does that take you?
You know how is he managingtime.
Where does that take you?
You know how is he managing.
So I mean, that was just youknow, the edge of what we
explored.
But you know what, for you, didyou really sort of take away
from that, from thatconversation, that that we had?
Charlie Reading (15:35):
there was a few things.
I loved the advice that he gotfrom Malcolm, his coach, which
was you can basically Malcolmteaching him that he could win,
but only by a stride.
So it was like you're capableof winning, but don't be cocky
about it.
You've got to give everything,and if you give everything,
you're absolutely capable ofwinning, but only by a stride.
(15:57):
So that I really loved and I'veused that a couple of times
since, because I think it'sreally powerful message.
And then other message whichactually all came out of that
same conversation between himand Malcolm was that pressure is
a privilege.
You know, when you're feelingthe pressure, it's because
you've earned the opportunity tofeel the pressure, and I think
that's also a really powerfulmessage which I really liked.
(16:19):
So, yeah, I thought it was afantastic interview and I was
delighted to get the opportunityto chat to him.
He was actually speaking at anevent um near my home a few few
weeks ago.
My best man well, notunfortunately, but my best man
was over from kuala lumpur andit just happened to be that same
time that we were, we weremeeting up, so I couldn't.
(16:39):
I couldn't go see him speak,but just like, like you say,
just a really humble, lovely,lovely guy that has given so
much to the sport and so manyamazing stories, including that
special moment with his brotherhelping his brother across the
line in Cosmel.
And then next up, we had JohnDutton OBE, the CEO of British
(17:01):
Cycling.
So what do you remember fromthat interview, claire?
Claire Fudge (17:06):
uh, the ceo of british cycling.
So what do you remember fromthat interview, claire?
Yeah, so we'd both met him whenyou were speaking at an event
um a few months before, didn'twe?
Um, so we we'd got to know hima little bit and it was it.
I mean, he's fantastic tointerview actually, to start off
with well, I wouldn't even sayinterview, like he's.
He's a really good storyteller,um, you know, and his experience
you you know.
He just told of, like, wherehe's come from and you know,
(17:29):
from that background in, um, therugby league world cup, and you
know what happened during thattime, um, you know, through to
um, obviously, um, leadingBritish cycling into Paris 2024.
So there were so many storiesthat he told and, and all of
which they all had a purpose, Iguess, to his storytelling.
(17:49):
You know what it taught him,what he learned from it and
actually how he has then changed, how he is now in his role as
CEO in British Cycling.
So I just thought it was reallyinteresting and he touched a
lot on as we have with manyguests, on this idea of why
actually, you know, mindset isso important and I don't know,
(18:13):
you know almost that that was asimportant.
I'm not sure if you had thesame feeling as you know,
looking at physiology and youknow, and, of course, the bike
in terms of you know athletes.
I just thought it was a really,it was a really good episode
for me to listen to and actuallyreally learn from.
Charlie Reading (18:31):
Yeah, no, I would agree.
I think I was just looking downat my notes actually because it
was a brilliant conversationwith with John I mean I love,
genuinely, just lovely guy, likeyou say.
We got the opportunity to havedinner with him when I was
speaking at the RAC club and youknow he talked wonderfully
about company culture and theimportance of culture and you
know how he measured thatthrough a happiness index, which
(18:53):
I thought was fantastic,embracing the challenge and
being sort of bold and brave Ithought I loved that term that
he used a few times and makingpermanent and positive change
and kind of understanding values.
And I particularly remember himtalking about how they used
their values to make thedecision about whether to go
ahead with the Rugby World Cupor not, and when they looked at
(19:16):
the values they were like we'vegot to push ahead with this,
even though Covid is kind ofputting the massive roadblock in
the way.
So I think there was a lot ofbrilliant, um, brilliant
insights from a business pointof view as well as from a
sporting point of view as well.
And then and then we ended upwith that.
So then the next episode wasmatty troutman, wasn't it?
And he was the south africanironman athlete, um, that had a
(19:41):
horrible, horrible crash,getting taken out from behind by
by a car, and then he battlesto recover through that, uh, and
, and you know, just does, youknow, has to clearly work very
hard, both psychologically andphysiologically, to get back to
the point where he can race ironman again as a professional and
(20:01):
then to have when, when I wasracing in south af Africa last
year, he got, he gets blownclean off the bike, um, after
hitting a pothole and I thinkyou know a little bit of air and
again and that ends his career.
Um, I thought that was a reallyinteresting and inspiring
conversation in the sense thathe had to, you know, he had to
battle through that that twiceand um, so, yeah, I, I, I really
(20:24):
enjoyed that, that interview,and I think, I think there's a
lot of lessons that we can drawfrom on that.
And then the final interviewwas Maka.
Yeah, Again another absolutelegend from the world of Iron
man.
So, chris McCormack Maka, whatdid you make of that interview?
Claire Fudge (20:43):
I totally agree.
Again, you know some of thepeople that I think we had a
little conversation after wefinished um, that episode and I
didn't say it to him at the timebut maybe I should have is the
first year that I did.
I did Ironman, um, when I wasfirst competing, is the year
that I think he'd won the worldchampionships and he was the
name right, like he was the namethat people wanted to to beat.
(21:05):
There were those stories thathe was talking about.
You, like he was the name thatpeople wanted to to beat and
there were those stories that hewas talking about.
You know this idea of what themedia was portraying him, as you
know, and he, you know he wasrightly talking about.
Actually, at the time therewere magazines, right, you, you
read it in a magazine andwhereas now athletes have this
very different voice on socialmedia and can create their own
story about themselves rather,or you know, being that human
being, rather than somebody elsecreating that story behind him.
(21:28):
So I was really interestedbecause I actually came into
this thinking you know ChrisMcCormack, the person that he
was portrayed in a magazine, tospeaking to him.
What a different character.
I just thought, like it's sofunny.
I mean I don't think I'velaughed so much in an episode.
He was just brilliant, like youknow, really fun to listen to
(21:49):
and I just love this kind ofstory of him, just like nothing
was going to stop him, was it?
You know his story of, like youknow, in his teens, like going
and living in France, like itjust got worse and worse, didn't
it?
Of like how he was going tosurvive and I just loved it.
That this kind of pursuit oftriathlon and like making it
(22:10):
work, the story with his dad andmoving away from Australia just
thought was just amazing and Iloved.
I mean, I'd love to hear yourtake on it.
Actually, what was your take onthe?
The story behind you being yourown CEO and then really having
your your team around you whenyou're an athlete?
Charlie Reading (22:30):
um, I, I thought it was.
It was absolutely brilliant, itwas epic and it was probably.
I think it's one of thoseepisodes and there's been plenty
over, over, the, over the, Idon't know what I've been doing
this five years now maybe, Ithink.
I think I've been doing thepodcast five years and there's
occasionally episodes where yougo in thinking this will be a
good one and it's way, way.
(22:52):
you know, it's like one of thebest and I didn't immediately
see it coming, even though Ireally loved his book.
It just stood out for so manyreasons.
But I think this what I reallyliked was his approach as a
teenager when he was a teenageror early 20s, I can't remember
but when he was young and he andhe left that business job and
(23:13):
he moved to France and hepursued triathlon with really
kind of like, basically I'mgonna make it work, but it's
gonna be, you know, like I don'treally know what I'm doing, but
I'm gonna find my way.
Claire Fudge (23:25):
he pursued but I think that actually helped him,
didn't it the fact?
Charlie Reading (23:28):
he didn't really know what he was doing
but the same approach has nowworked phenomenally well in
business for him.
You know he's like oh yeah,yeah, I can do that.
I've kind of done this beforeand I'm just like I haven't.
I mean like and then work outhow to do it yeah, if you sell
it first and then you work outhow to deliver it afterwards,
and I think that's brilliant.
You know his, his confidence ofgoing yeah, I can work that out
(23:51):
.
How difficult can that be?
Come on, let's get going, getsome commitment and and actually
his enthusiasm was infectiousand you can see why in business,
why people will go.
Yeah, he must know what he'stalking about, of course, you
know, because good energy kindof has people following and so I
thought that was brilliant.
Um, and yeah, just that wholeidea of selling super try and
(24:13):
how he got the Thai hot hoteland kind of fitness resort yeah,
up and up and run it, just Imean, that was just so many
great stories wasn't there andand obviously his stories around
the Kona winds and and the Konadisasters and his humbling and
his smack talking to othercompetitors.
I mean, there's just so muchthere isn't there.
Claire Fudge (24:34):
Yeah, there is.
Charlie Reading (24:36):
And what a wonderful episode to finish what
has been a phenomenal,phenomenal season.
So that's our wrap up forseason nine, but fear ye not,
you're not going to have long towait for season 10 and, as a
bit of a kind of like teaser,we've got some rather incredible
people lined up for season 10.
(24:57):
Now we're going to keep them asecret, of course, yes, but give
, giving me a bit of adescription of a couple of
people that you've, we know,we've got lined up for season 10
that you're, you think, aregoing to be special interviews
well, what I would say is wehave some old school, which is
exciting again to interview somevery old school people, which
(25:21):
will be fantastic and actuallyjust I'm just looking at the
names down the list and we havequite a few of those.
Claire Fudge (25:27):
It's pretty deep in some amazing people.
I am excited from a physiologyperspective, like super excited,
because that's my space.
So I'm really excited tointerview one of these people on
the list in particular, dippinginto a little bit of other
areas as well.
So what about for you?
Charlie Reading (25:46):
I think you're right, so that there's.
There's two names from the,maybe three, two names from the,
historically like two namesthat are so synonymous with
endurance sport that it's justit's.
It's freaking awesome.
Claire Fudge (26:02):
That is, that is what all I will say if it came
up in a pub quiz, you definitelywould remember it honestly just
unbelievable.
Charlie Reading (26:10):
um and and then you're right, there's a real
interesting mix, and I thinkthere's a good couple of
corporate speakers in there thatcan give us a really brilliant
insight in both thatrelationship between business
and sport, and I think there'ssome.
I think there's two names thatstand out there the physiology
person I know exactly who you'retalking about and that's going
(26:30):
to be really exciting.
We haven't interviewed her yet.
We'll give a little teaseraround that, but that's going to
be really cool.
Yeah, we've got some amazingepisodes lined up, some amazing
interviews, some of which we'vealready done, and we know
they're amazing, some of whichwe haven't done yet.
So stay tuned for season 10 ofthe Business of Endurance
podcast.
It'll be out soon and in themeantime, keep on training.
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Gregg Rosenthal and a rotating crew of elite NFL Media co-hosts, including Patrick Claybon, Colleen Wolfe, Steve Wyche, Nick Shook and Jourdan Rodrigue of The Athletic get you caught up daily on all the NFL news and analysis you need to be smarter and funnier than your friends.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com