Bonus Episode: The Fellowship of the Ring Wrap Party!

Jessica and Kritter have finished and share their final thoughts about The Fellowship of the Ring in a YouTube livestream wrap party. Who won MVP? Which quote was best? Can Jessica count? Find your answers here!

Don’t forget to follow us at But Are There Dragons on Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, and TikTok, and But Dragons Pod, just one t, on X, formerly known as Twitter.
You can find Kritter at Kritter XD on YouTube, TikTok, and X, and at Kritter _XD on Instagram.
You can find Jessica by searching Shelf Indulgence on TikTok, Instagram, and X.

Music credit to: Frog's Theme by Nobuo Uematsu, Noriko Matsueda, Yasunori Mitsuda
ReMix: Chrono Trigger "Theme of Frog's" - OC ReMix

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
I can say podcast, where two friends pick a book at
least one of them has not readand work.
They were their way through ita few chapters at a time.
I'm your host, critter, and I'myour host, jess, and we
finished the Fellowship of theRing like a week or two ago, and
it is very exciting for both ofus and we're going to talk
about it today in this speciallive recording of a I don't know

(00:25):
.
I don't know what you wouldcall this like a special episode
, not a regular season episode.
It's an exciting episode, Idon't know.
Bonus oh my gosh, bonus is theactual word for that the special
bonus episode where we talkabout the entire book and our
experience reading it.
I want to say thank you toeveryone who's here in the chat.

(00:45):
I want to say thank you toeveryone who listens to this
after the fact or watches it onYouTube, and I also want to say
what's up, jessica.

Speaker 2 (00:52):
What's up, critter?
How are you?

Speaker 1 (00:54):
I'm good.
I'm good, I'm just chilling.
This is, you know, we don'talways go live, so it's always
fun to go live.
This is our second live streamand I'm excited about it.
So, overall, let's just diveright in.
Let's dive right in, if youcould.
I didn't ask her this ahead oftime.

(01:15):
She's not prepared.
If you could describe theFellowship of the Ring in three
words or less, how would youdescribe it?
Wow?

Speaker 2 (01:23):
you're right, you didn't prep me at all.
I'm sorry, I don't even knowhow I'm going to say it.
I'm thinking to it while you'rethinking.
Yes.
So I guess three words or less.
Three words or less?
I can do it in four, do it four.
I love that.
Sort out the ring Sort out thering.

Speaker 1 (01:45):
Okay, we are getting on a path.
Yes, we're figuring out whatwe're doing with the Fellowship
of the Ring.
Yes, we're figuring out whatwe're doing with the Ring, the
silly ring that we found in theHobbit in the last book that we
read, season One.
Okay, sort out the ring.
I think I'm going to go withjust like one word, but three of
them.
You know what I mean.
Okay, I'm just completely offthe cuff here.

(02:06):
I literally didn't even thinkof that question until I said it
.
Okay, so I'm going to go withquaint quest and Samwise, he's
my guy, he's my guy, he's my guy.
Ooh, light-blinded, full offantastic storytelling.
I love that random new ring.

(02:28):
Who dis that would be for theHobbit, but I love what you're
where your mind's at.
Yeah, so way to avoid thequestions, says Brother
Zachariah.
I don't think she was avoiding.

Speaker 2 (02:41):
I think she was just surprised I was buying time.
There was a lot of emptysilence there and I was like
what am I going to do?
It's okay, I think that withyour quaint and quest there
should be cozy, but it's not ascozy as the Hobbit.

Speaker 1 (02:56):
It's not.
The Hobbit definitely has farcozier vibes, and that is
something that we were wonderingwhile we were reading the
Hobbit.
If you recall, when we got toRivendell, it was a everyone
seems so jolly and merry andhappy go lucky.
And this is not the vibe that Iremember, because most of like

(03:16):
all of your experience and mymost recent experience, like in
the 20 years worth, was in themovies.
So it was like Elrond is a verystoic dude.
You know what I mean.
So, like, why are they so happyin the Hobbit and I believe it
was Don Marshall said well, Imean, the state of the world is
different here.
That's had lots of time hadpassed and lots of things have

(03:39):
grown darker and more dire, andso I think that really came
through in fellowship right.

Speaker 2 (03:46):
Yeah, obviously I hadn't thought of it in that
context, in that real worldcontext, until Don had said it.
But yes, like the state of theworld is that much further, that
much worse off, as it were?
You know 50 years later, thingshave gotten darker and more
dire, but leave it to our guestto point out that there is an in

(04:07):
world reason for it.
All I know is that, as somebodywho was consuming the story,
the voice was drasticallydifferent.
It was nowhere near aslighthearted and it was
noticeably different.

Speaker 1 (04:20):
Yeah, oh, we've got Aldor in the chat.
Quaint Quest queso.
I mean, yeah, bilbo's house,I'm sure he served up some queso
every now and then.
You know, aldor, that's a goodquestion.
Were we talking about MiddleEarth or just Earth, porcain?
No low dose yes.

Speaker 2 (04:40):
The answer is yes, yeah.

Speaker 1 (04:43):
I mean, yes, probably .
Oh my gosh, so true, you know,times are getting dark when the
Sackville Baggins is step footin Bag End and actually take
over Bag End.
What that is something I hadforgotten happened because you
know as, like a 11 year old, Ididn't really keep track of
deeds of trust and what you knowdidn't care.

Speaker 2 (05:03):
You didn't care who owned Bag End.
I didn't, I didn't.

Speaker 1 (05:06):
And now I'm like, how dare they?
That's just, it hurts a lot,yeah, okay, so we've got the
three words, slash four words todescribe.
You know?
What else do you want to talkabout with the Fellowship of the
Ring or how it compares to theHobbit?

Speaker 2 (05:26):
I think that the biggest comparison for me was
the change in tone, not just inthe subject matter, right, but
also even the voice of thenarrator.
We had commented on it in oneof our episodes, but I think
that was probably, you know, thebiggest noticeable difference
for me is it's not just a changein tone for the authorship of

(05:49):
the story.
The narrator themselves had achange in tone.
There was no lighthearted WhileI'm here to tell you you know,
that's not how that goes, youknow.
it's none of that.
That has completely changed.
So it almost felt like twovoices changed right, Like the
tone of the book itself and thetone of the narrator itself was
notably, notably different.

Speaker 1 (06:10):
Yeah, we pointed out in one of the episodes that the
narrator went from being like oh, I've got this little joke that
you're not in on in the Hobbitto being like I just want you to
know that this really coolthing that's happening right now
it never happens again.
Just like, why do you have totell us that?
Could you just let us love thatwe're in Lothlorean right now,
or Rivendell or whatever?

(06:32):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (06:35):
It's definitely tangible.
It's definitely tangible.
I know that when we started theHobbit, I at first had a little
trouble getting used to havinga narrator along for the ride.
They inserted themselves quitea bit and to the point where
they, you know, added color,commentary and had opinions, and

(06:55):
not just the omniscient oromnipresent narrator.
Right, but has opinions and isgoing to share them, yeah.
And now the narrator in thisbook, for example, makes a
comment about and he will neversee it again during his living
days, and we're like rip, Iguess.

(07:18):
Way to keep it lighthearted andfun.

Speaker 1 (07:20):
Right, right, a little upsetting in my opinion,
but you know what it made sensewith the whole overall tone of
the book.
So we don't have to like gochapter by chapter here, but I
do think it might be worthtalking about like the
highlights and the lowlights ofthe book.
For us, now that we've taken itall in and if I'm going like in

(07:42):
order, I would say I was verymuch ready to start the story
and so the prologue for me waskind of like a okay, like let's
go.
The part of the prologue that Ilike the most and this might
have been the forward actuallybut the part that talked about
Tolkien, I liked you know a lot.
But then the part that wastalking about you know, the
history of the Hobbits and stuff, I was like, okay, I'm going to

(08:03):
like get behind this.
I have read the Silmarillion, Ican read this.
But I was like I'm read alsolike bring me Sam and Frodo and
Bilbo and let's get moving onthis quest.
So how did you experience theprologue?
Was it a similar vibe for you?

Speaker 2 (08:20):
I think that I was just kind of a blank slate and I
highlighted so much of theforward.
So I just highlighted so muchbecause I'm like everything
seems so relevant.
So I think that I just went inin a very typical fashion for me
, which is, you know, incrediblygung-ho, right out of the gate.

(08:42):
For better or for worse, that'sjust kind of how I am as a
person.
And so I went into it wantingwhatever it could give me,
knowing full well that noteverything was going to stick
right.
So I'm going to do my best, I'mgoing to take highlights, I'm
going to hope some of that stucklong enough for it to make
sense later.

(09:02):
Yeah, but I remember.
And then nothing else.
I have my highlights.
The Tolkien background I knew alittle bit of it, so I had
watched the Tolkien movie thatcame out, but that was before we
had planned this projecttogether, so since then I've

(09:23):
tried not to learn anythingfurther about him or his works.
Yeah, so some of theinformation that was shared was
really interesting, but some ofit I had heard before, so it was
almost like I'm a little bit ofthe flip side of you.

Speaker 1 (09:37):
Okay, yeah, I didn't know a ton about his biography
because we read the prologuebefore I did my author tea for
Tolkien on TikTok, so I hadn'tdone all the research just yet.
Okay, so this is a really greatquestion actually, from the
chat.
Farmsstrider asks what were thebiggest surprises Jessica found
in regards to the changes fromher movie experience to the book

(09:57):
.

Speaker 2 (10:00):
Farmsstrider going to make you work for my supper?
It is a good question.
I think that some of thebiggest changes are still
relatively small.
They are things like theyweren't being chased.
You know what I mean.
Like they were being chased,but it wasn't as eminent as it

(10:21):
was portrayed in those movies.

Speaker 1 (10:25):
Like when they were getting out of the Shire.

Speaker 2 (10:27):
Like they were like actively fleeing, yeah, and you
know Fredagar standing in forhim.
I thought was an incrediblething the fact that they had 50
years between Bilbo's story andFrodo's story.
I think that was one of thebiggest surprises for me and it

(10:47):
hit me at a couple of differentspots, especially in book one.
So I feel like those were hugethings for me to kind of adapt
to.
In specifically book one I'mtrying to buy time to think
about if there's stuff in booktwo side that really, I mean
obviously Tom Bombadil I finallyget to know who Tom Bombadil
and Colbert are, as much as anyof us knows.

Speaker 1 (11:11):
Big mystery there.

Speaker 2 (11:13):
Frodo's all.
And then, yeah, so Arwen isgreat question for us writer and
honestly that even as light asthe female representation is in
the movies, it's still faroutstrips at least the
fellowship.
So that was definitely a bigsurprise.

(11:38):
It shouldn't have been right.

Speaker 1 (11:40):
But yeah, well, now you know, though you know it's
one of those things that if youwere around for the discourse
trademark back whenever themovie first came out and there
were a bunch of book cloaksangry about how Gauravindel was
shafted in favor of Arwen, thoselike whole five minutes that
she got to be in the movie andsaying things.

(12:03):
Now you know that, like well youcan weigh in on whether that
was a worthy.
A worthy swap, and we did, Ithink, talked about it in the
episode, but you did think itwas a pretty worthy swap.

Speaker 2 (12:17):
Yes absolutely I did, and even at the same time.
So like Galadriel'srepresentation, when she is on
the page and being an activeparticipant.
You know, the narrator Tolkien,however you frame it in your
mind gives her full props, likethe White Council happens at her
behest, like she's clearly adriving force and a leader, both

(12:38):
with her people and as part ofthe White Council.
You know so it doesn't feel asthough Tolkien himself shied
away from writing strong femalecharacters.
It's just that it didn't happen.

(12:58):
And the fact that we didn'treally even meet Arwen.
We saw her in passing inanother room and just waved on
the way by.

Speaker 1 (13:05):
Yeah and then later found out that she was
Galadriel's granddaughterbecause of a gift that she gave
Eric Cool.
I think that's the one thingholding these books back from
being my faves of all timeprobably is just like it just
hurts my heart that there aren'tmore amazing women, like there

(13:29):
are amazing men and I'm notblaming Tolkien for that, like
he was a product of his time, hewas a product of his
circumstance, like I know thatyou know he was surrounded by
men in education, like inacademia and in the war, and so,
like his experience with womenwas like the wife that he
idolized and that I think we seein like, well, a character in

(13:51):
the still Meridian, but also Ithink we get reflections of her
and like all the charactersright, because they're on this
pedestal, they're the mostbeautiful thing you've ever seen
, they're well spoken, everyoneidolizes them, all of that stuff
.
It's like, yeah, I imagine thatthat's how he saw women and the
fact that he was able, evenduring his time and having been
surrounded by men for his entirelife and a Catholic no less

(14:14):
like as a Catholic you know,catholics are very much like men
are in charge, listen to themen, whatever he still was able
to like, make a character, like,like a lot about who he was as
a person.

Speaker 2 (14:25):
I think it means that he could at least conceptualize
of it, right?

Speaker 1 (14:29):
so yeah, that's something it is indeed something
it is a thin thread.

Speaker 2 (14:36):
I held on to leaving those chapters, but there were
lots of other really funsurprises, right like there was.
You know Sam is a master spyand, yes, you know farmer maggot
is is a big person and a legendrespect by Tom apparently yeah,
we had some other fun surprisesto.

(14:58):
They weren't all bad surprisesyeah, not at all.

Speaker 1 (15:01):
No, I think so.
Like a lot of the stuff I hadcompletely forgotten was kind of
delightful in many ways, andyou know what?
This things that I hadforgotten speaking of, I forgot
how much distance they traveledon the water, and so I am
dreading that coming up in myfantasy hike.

Speaker 2 (15:22):
Yeah, so is that still on foot For me?
I not, I don't.
I'm like I don't know what's atriathlon.
I don't know what you signed upfor.

Speaker 1 (15:33):
I wish I could count time on boats.
You can swim it like all ofthem.
I can swim it like all of them,honestly, like I love float
trips, like I can just go on afloat trip this summer, but
anyway.
So yeah, I've talked about thisin some other episodes, but I'm
doing the fantasy hike app,which is comparing me with Mr

(15:53):
under hill as he walks to Mountfire or something like that, and
he's currently resting inRiverdale still, thank God, and
I'm just trying to catch up.
I'm still 250 miles behind him,but soon after he leaves
Riverdale, as we know, they getinto a bunch of boats and right
in a river.

Speaker 2 (16:10):
For really, 10 freaking days yeah.

Speaker 1 (16:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (16:15):
I'm like really long time.

Speaker 1 (16:18):
I'm so I'm screwed.
Basically I'm not.
I'm not going to beat Mr underhill, but at least I can follow
his journey.
It is yeah.

Speaker 2 (16:32):
Yes, random, no man, unfortunately telling all my
secrets, but he is not wrong, Iwill be your best cheerleader.

Speaker 1 (16:41):
Thanks, I'm trying to one more I am trying to go on
more walks, but you know for myhealth, but also a lot of miles.
A lot of miles.
So anyways, yeah, outdoor justme and a rubber ring on a lazy
river just circling.

Speaker 2 (16:56):
I wish Support crew.
We will be there for you.

Speaker 1 (17:01):
Thank you.
One of these days I'm going tosign up for a marathon.
I'm not never going to do that,but you know, just so I can
catch up.
I absolutely not.
That's not.
I don't like running, but I dolike walking and hiking, so that
it was a huge aside.
So we talk.
We talked about the prologue,we talked about surprises
between the movies and the book.

(17:22):
I am wondering do you have anyfavorite parts, just generally,
from the books?
Or the singular book?
I guess.
No, there were two books, bookone and two Two.

Speaker 2 (17:36):
So I think I think my favorite vibe was having dawn
on.
Not to knock our other guests,but Leia and Kat were far less
chaotic and dawn just reallymade it an hour and a half of

(17:57):
chaos in the most lovely, funway.
Like so many tangents guys, wehad so much fun with that.
So in the in the scheme of funmoment, I would say, having dawn
on was a real highlight.
Again, guests in general was ahuge highlight.
So Leia kicked us off, you know.
She kicked that door down andand marched right in with

(18:19):
authority, love.
So, I think that's where Katcame in and I know you guys
didn't get to see a lot of it,unfortunately, because we had so
much technical issues bothduring and after, but Kat was a
really fantastic guest and wouldlove to have her back sometime.
So I love the fact that weelevated it right like I love
the fact that we took on gueststhis year.

Speaker 1 (18:39):
Yeah, I'm the season, I'm the start, this the
beginning of the year, so yeah,you did it 2024.

Speaker 2 (18:53):
A lot of my favorite moments are silly things like
open in the name of Mordor and,you know, gandalf throwing shade
at Mary and Pippin and kind oflittle moments like that that I
just had so much fun with goingthrough with you.
Oh my gosh, oh my gosh.

Speaker 1 (19:16):
Sam keeping track of Bill.
Oh, that was so cute.

Speaker 2 (19:23):
I was thinking Frodo having to like deal out Bilbo
snarky, like bequeathments yes,oh my God, yes.
And also the sackville Baggins,like just the mock rage I felt,
for the sackville Baggins istaking over, yeah, bag.
And.
And the shade that Bilbo threwat Frodo for letting it go down
on his birthday, no less, yeah.

Speaker 1 (19:44):
Yeah, aldor said, marianne Pippin already knowing
about the ring favorite momentI'm a sucker for a moment in any
franchise where I love thecharacters and they all like get
together for a little pow, wow,where they're like being
themselves.
You know, it's not like theCouncil of Elrond was really
cool and fun, but it was verybusiness, business oriented.
We're going to talk about thisthing that we need to talk about

(20:05):
, whereas in not brief in oh mygosh, where Mary lives in Randy
Buck, that's, that's hisBuckland.
Randy Buck is this.
Yeah, that's why I couldn'tfigure it out, because I was
like, what is it called?
In Buckland?
They, they had their littlelike dinner time, they had their
baths and then they were justlike joshing each other about

(20:28):
how Sam was spying on Frodo andthat they all knew about the
ring and it was all just likethis.
It reminds me of the theAvengers Shouarma scene, or like
, or like at the party beforethey get attacked and they're
all just like chilling anddrinking and flirting with each
other.
I love that.
I love that.

Speaker 2 (20:44):
So it was.
I love that because of howintimate it felt right.
So, to your point, council ofElrond felt very significant
capital S, whereas that momentwas very like we were
eavesdropping ourselves rightlike a bunch of friends and we
are Dropping eaves.
So that was, that was very welldone.

(21:06):
Yeah, I just, those were suchgreat moments, the little
moments.

Speaker 1 (21:13):
Okay, so I will say the one big moment that really
stands out for me was Gandalfand the Bellrog.
I because we're so we were soused to Gandalf being this like
funny, snarky, mysterious, youknow wizard figure who was in
and out doing his own thing.
We didn't really get to witnesshim pop off, as the kids say,

(21:37):
during the Hobbit or even duringthe beginning of fellowship.
And then when he had hisconversation with the Bellrog, I
was just like this guy gets it,this is a level 20 wizard at
work and we're finally seeing it.

Speaker 2 (21:49):
You know what I mean, and so I got the chills.

Speaker 1 (21:51):
I got the, I got the hype, like I was holding the
signs whistling.
It was a good, it was anexcellent moment and I don't
usually care about battles andit was so well written and the
way he was like egging it on andlike screaming at it and you
know, invoking or invoking hisnames, like I love that part, I,

(22:11):
I, yeah, I, I.
It might.
I don't want to say it.
I might say that in the book itwas better than it was in the
movie, even though in the movieit's an iconic scene Like you
shall not pass in, so it's close, but like the fact that it's
close is wild because the moviescene is so good.

Speaker 2 (22:30):
So yeah, and there's so many great moments from that
particular stretch of the bookthat you can tell they were
going as close as possible, theywere cutting as close to the
edges they could in terms oftrying to one to one recreate
that vibe.
Yeah, without a doubt.
Without a doubt, I hadsomething else and then I lost

(22:52):
it.
It's gone, that's okay.

Speaker 1 (22:54):
That's okay.
Um, I'm trying to think ifthere were any other like major,
major highlights.
Uh, sam's like realization atthe end.
Like Sam at the end, I guess.
For me it's like he's like whyare we talking about?
Why are we talking about?
Meanest truth?
That, like that, means nothing.
We, kroda's clearly notthinking about going to meanest

(23:15):
earth.
Why are you all talking?
Like he's thinking about whatto do next and he doesn't want
to take us with him because hefeels bad.
He's reading him like a bookand then he's the one that
figures out where he's going andalmost drowns himself in order
to go with him.
It's just, it's heartbreakingand beautiful and I just love
Sam so much.
Most of the stuff that Sam didthroughout the book was
highlighted for me because itwas just so awesome.

(23:37):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (23:39):
Yeah, no, and I I liked seeing those relationships
fleshed out more.
I think I said that more in thefirst half because I feel like
that's where we spent a lot ofthat time.
But definitely I didn't inferall of that from the movies,
right, like the closenessbetween Mary Pippin, sam and
Frodo, I don't know, I kind ofjust assumed that they are all

(24:04):
people who lived in a smallvillage and that we're
relatively close in age and kindof not necessarily guilt by
association, right.
But like, oh yeah, no, I knowSandra, we grew up together.
She lives three doors down.
That doesn't mean you hang out,yeah, right, like it doesn't
mean that you're tight, it justmeans that you're of a certain

(24:24):
age and you, you know, your,your boundaries touch, and so
there's so much more for that onthe page and I really loved
having that because I made itthat much more believable.

Speaker 1 (24:40):
Yeah, so I loved getting that Mary and Pippin
just like happening to be onFarmer Bag, it's like farm or
whatever, and like running intothem Just by happenstance.
It's, so it doesn't give enough.
Well, first of all, the FarmerMaggot shade is wild, but then
also it doesn't give enoughcredit to Mary and Pippin who,
like, planned to help Frodo allalong.

(25:03):
You know, this was just like,oh, by circumstance, we
accidentally ran into you.
So yeah, we'll come along, soyeah.

Speaker 2 (25:10):
And realistically, like it's not a lot of text
right, Like it's just theselittle snippets of moments.
And I think it's Pippin who hasa relationship.
No, I think it's Mary that hasa relationship with Farmer
Maggot and he's like no, he'd befine if we just walked down the
path.
You know he won't care at all.
Just different things like thatthat really let those

(25:30):
characters be more fleshed out.
For me here it really didn'ttake a lot, yeah, but it really
did make a difference.

Speaker 1 (25:39):
It did.
It did a lot.
You know, what we haven'ttalked about at all is Aragorn.
I can't would.
The introduction of Strider wasa delightful one.
I feel like the movies cutreally close to the books in
that regard as well.
You know, frodo getting hislike accidentally revealing the
ring, or at least him goinginvisible, and Strider scolding

(26:00):
them.
I do think Strider wasdifferent We've talked about
this but different in the bookthan he was in the movie, a
little more well, less serious,a little more personable.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (26:12):
I feel like my memory of the movies is he was
portrayed a little bit more grima little bit more dour and
almost sad Right.
And I don't know that.
I necessarily got that.
You know he's got, he's gotthis backstory that is troubling
, yeah, and lots and lots andlots of skills.

(26:35):
But he very much wants to bepart of this group and help and
you know almost petitions to getto go on this trek with them.
He's pretty wild and not as,not as stoic as it's portrayed,
I feel, in the first movie.

Speaker 1 (26:52):
No, and I don't think the movie gives him as much
credit for like all the workthat he's been doing in the
background, like helping.

Speaker 2 (27:00):
Gandalf find.

Speaker 1 (27:00):
Gollum, like protecting the borders of the
Shire, he's been doing all kindsof stuff.

Speaker 2 (27:05):
There's all these Rangers that are, you know,
rolling the borders of the Shire.
That's wild.

Speaker 1 (27:10):
Yeah, and I had totally one other thing that I
had forgotten, because my movieknowledge was way surpassed or
absolutely surpassed my bookknowledge.

Speaker 2 (27:22):
So I want to put you with the hot seat.
Oh, bring it on.
I love the hot seat.
So, after your full reread,what's your favorite thing that
came up while you were rereadingthat maybe you forgot from the
first time, maybe due to age, orjust how long it had been since
you read.
What's your favorite thing thatpopped up?
Because I feel like there werea few times where you're like I

(27:44):
totally forgot that evenhappened.

Speaker 1 (27:46):
My favorite thing that popped up.
I think it has to be and Ialready mentioned this the
beginning like the time jump,not that that was there, but
like the fact that we got moreestablished with the Hobbits and
who they were as people and wegot the delightful like silly

(28:10):
Bilbo gift scene and all kindsof stuff that were it, just like
set the, you know, like Bilboleaving with dwarves.
There were so many things thatI think connected the book with
the Hobbit that just I totallyglossed over and was lost in the
movie just for time.
Right, they couldn't spend halfthe movie of the Fellowship of
the Ring and the Shire.
So I just I do think thecharacters of, especially of the

(28:33):
Hobbits were much better ormore thoroughly fleshed out in
the book, which makes sensebecause there was more time to
do it.
So, yeah, aldor says if we canhave a sitcom set in the Shire,
I would pay for that same, Iwould crowdfund the heck out of
that, I would be all for it.
Yeah, so I think probably that.

(28:57):
But I mean there were a lot ofjust like small tweaks and
changes that I was just that Ihad forgotten, that were from
the, that I was used to whathappened in the movie, like the
Council of Elrond, likeeverybody's backstories, that
was really fascinating, you know.
Granted, the plot wasn'tadvancing, so I was like, okay,
I do enjoy whatever things aremoving, but getting the you know

(29:17):
what happened at Mount Doomafter I hadn't even thought.
Like we don't, the movies don'ttalk about the dwarves at all,
right, except for Gimli, son ofGlowen, right.
And so that's the fact that weget to hear, like what Saruman's
doing in the background andwhat Gandalf had been doing that
whole time, and all of thatstuff we're getting, just like
all of the context which worldbuilding is just on fleek.

(29:41):
A hundred people say thatanymore.
But yeah, so like the Council,the Council of Elrond was
perfect for that.

Speaker 2 (29:48):
So yeah, yeah, the silent campaigning of Saruman
slash the enemy, intriguing,slash, terrifying, yeah.
And to know that those tacticsare being used with a some
degree of success at least, thatwas really interesting and
crazy to hear there was so manydifferent things like that, but

(30:14):
to your point, they're all kindof little in the scheme of
things.
I think the thing thatsurprised me the most about this
read I think I've alreadycommented on it in a previous
episode, though was how muchmore attached I was to the
dwarves from the Hobbit andreliving that in the in the

(30:34):
bowels of Moria.
I was not prepared for howupset I was going to be, how
attached I had gotten, yeah, sothat was really kind of
surprising.
And also the balance of that ishow elated I was to see Bilbo
come back.
Yeah, if only for a brief time,it was.

(30:56):
It was lovely, and the FrodoBilbo vibes were immaculate.
The time, you know, even throwaway comments like, with the
time remaining, frodo spent asmuch time with Bilbo as possible
, like love that.

Speaker 1 (31:12):
Come on, yeah, it's really sweet, honestly, because
when you think about it, likethe age difference, like all of
that, it's like such a nicerelationship that they have like
mentor, mentee, grandpa,grandson, great uncle, whatever
you want to call it.
Yeah, it's really sweet, I likeit a lot.
Yeah, I'm up the Hobbits reallygraded, like in the movies my

(31:36):
favorite character is a Hobbit,so I guess it shouldn't be that
surprising.
But just generally, like theMarys and Pippins and Frodo's of
the world and Bilbo's, I havegrown to the perspective like
them so much more after readingthe books than from the movies.
Granted, like they're alllikable at the very least in the
movies, like Pippin's, sillyMarys, fun.
You know Frodo is going throughit, but in this like I do

(31:58):
especially think that I likeFrodo infinitely more after
reading him than him in themovie, because in the movie it's
truly like he has this burdenand that is his primary
personality for 99% of themovies where you get a lot more
from him, I think in the bookspersonally, yeah, I loved.

Speaker 2 (32:21):
I was concerned when we first started that Bilbo
would just feel like a photocopyof Bilbo in some way.
Frodo.

Speaker 1 (32:31):
I mean.

Speaker 2 (32:32):
Yes, I'm sorry that Frodo would feel like, you know,
a poor man's version of Bilboin whatever way, and I
definitely didn't feel that way.
By the end I felt as though hehad his own journey.
He had his own experiences, hehad his own challenges.
So I was happy.

(32:53):
I didn't want him to be acarbon copy.

Speaker 1 (32:56):
So I guess, speaking of Frodo and Sam and characters
that we love, now might be agood time to go over season
slash episode MVPs, Everyone.
That sounds like a good time.
I feel like it sounds like agood time, so I'm going to share
with you all.
Well, no, no, no, we're gonnaup the suspense, we're gonna.
We're not gonna show youeverything right away.

(33:18):
I am wondering people in thechat if you had to guess, if you
didn't personally tallyeverything up just on vibes
alone, who do you think were thetop three?
That's good.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, MVPs like topthree.
Let us know.
And we'll talk a little bitmore about the characters.

(33:39):
Yeah, because I, as I mentionedin the episode nine stream I
just talked about how much moreI like Frodo in the books than I
do in the movies.
Our boy didn't get as much lovein the MVP votes, and we'll
talk about what.
Look how the extent of the lackof love was so depressing.

(34:00):
So I wouldn't pick Frodo if Iwere you.
Spoilers for that.
There you go.
There's the first one's free.
First one's free.
Don't pick Frodo, Because eventhough we had some real nice
moments, he didn't win an MVPalmost at all.
Okay, the votes are coming in.
We've got oh no, Aldoris isBill Bowen.
Aragorn make songs together.
Love that, All right.

(34:21):
So yeah, we've got.
Okay, we've got light-blindedfool Sam, Gandolf, Aragorn.
Love that.
Aldoris, Sam and Gandolf aretop three for sure.
Third one is harder, Sam.

Speaker 2 (34:32):
Gandolf Aragorn.
I see a couple of them.

Speaker 1 (34:34):
Sam Gandolf Aragorn.
Wow, okay, it's, it's looking,it feels like a trend.
It feels like a trend.
What if I said a lot of thatwas right, but one of them is
not right?
And you have to think also,just like let me preface all of
this and we'll use this as ourlead into who got third, third

(34:59):
place, but you have to thinkabout the fact that here we go
Aldoris.
Sam Gandolf Pippin, mark.
An interesting thought, mary,all right, so now you're just
throwing.
Hobbits out, you're justthrowing names out there and you
got the wrong Hobbit.
First of all because the actualanswer for who got third is

(35:20):
Bilbo, and I was going to sayyou have to think about the fact
that Aragorn wasn't introducedfor a good long time in the
books and, to be fair, likeBilbo obviously was there at the
beginning and their site kindof in the middle, but he did get
three votes to be third.

(35:41):
Two of those votes came.
No, all three votes came fromepisode six, so that would have
been the Council of Elrond.
So I think that's kind ofamazing.

Speaker 2 (35:53):
He really he really slays, he really shown in those
chapters, though you know hewrote those songs he first off.
He came blasted onto the scene.
The songwriting was incredible,the healthy bonding with Frodo,
just all of that was really ifyou walk away from how much

(36:16):
exposition was in there right.
The most entertaining part ofthose chapters were Bilbo and,
yes, lipe-linded Fool exactlyBilbo volunteering without
hesitation to take the ring toMordor.

Speaker 1 (36:29):
That's what sold me Like that's solidified it.

Speaker 2 (36:32):
I think that was what I said in the episode, like, if
nothing else, he's old enoughto know better, he's face danger
, he knows what he's saying andhe's still, without hesitation,
stood up and volunteered.

Speaker 1 (36:44):
Yeah, and I'm looking now at the list and okay, no,
there was, there was one.
No, yes, one other unanimousepisode, and that episode was
Aragorn.
And so Aragorn tied with a lotof people for fourth place,

(37:06):
excuse me, he, he got two votes,all of the votes in season two,
episode five, which I believewas between Brie and Rivendell,
if I'm not mistaken.

Speaker 2 (37:18):
Yes, it would have been the end of book one.

Speaker 1 (37:22):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So those are the votes thatAragorn the brightest for sure.

Speaker 2 (37:27):
Oh yeah, Because it was right they were headed to
the Ford Right and I had saidthat he got my vote because he,
you know they never would havemade it that far for
Glorifendell to save him.
Exactly, if it wasn't for allthe skill that he, that Aragorn,
had exerted along the way.
Weathertop Aragorn that's aperfect way to put it.

Speaker 1 (37:50):
Yeah, okay.
So I think that's a great sidewith this is like a huge list
that got.
These people got two votes apiece Tom Bombadil, galadriel
and Mary and I know Mary gotmajor props, like in different
moments actually, so like Marygot a vote in season two,
episode three, so I believe thatwas when they were in Buckland,
if I'm not mistaken.

(38:11):
And then where is his othervote?
Is Mary in the lead In episodeone, for oh there, he's right
first In one for being such agood friend, for being such a
bro, right Cause he like hungwith Frodo while he was going
through all of that stuff.
Yeah, so that's totally fair.

(38:31):
Galadriel, I mean, we get it,she's a queen.

Speaker 2 (38:34):
We love her, jessica gave it for her two episodes in
a row, I was like oh, that wasme Okay.

Speaker 1 (38:41):
I'm not taking it back.
No, I mean, one of them was forthe gifts, the other one was for
the, the just being a generalfatality and general badassery.
Yeah, it totally makes sense.
Um, let's see, tom B got twovotes in two separate episodes
as well, first when he savedthem from weeping willow or
whatever old man willow, and thenext one when he saved them

(39:02):
from the barrow town.
So it makes sense.
Um, all right.
So, and then let's see, we said, yeah, so those the ones, uh,
the bottom two tied were Pippinand goldberry.
They each got one vote a piece,um, and then the top two.
They were not tied, though Fora while we thought they were,

(39:23):
because Gandalf and Galadriel.
Gandalf and Galadriel's nameslook really similar on a
spreadsheet, turns out.
So we'll uh, um, I'm just goingto show, I'm going to share the
screen.
So drum roll, please, let me.
Let me just do this, cause Iyeah, this is nobody panic, I
think this one is a hold on.
Oh my gosh, now I'm nervous.
This is it Share.

(39:44):
Okay, this is it.
Um.
Sam got first place with fivevotes.
I hope you guys can see.
If you can't see it very well,let me know in the chat.
Um and Gandalf got four votes.
It was very close, very close.
What I love about Gandalf isthat he um is all over the board

(40:06):
, right, the first episode, thesecond episode and the second
last episode.
So, obviously, like I gave itto him for the Balrog fight and
everybody else was giving it tohim for the exposition at the
beginning, like having Bilbokeep the ring back, like all of
that makes a lot of sense.
And then Sam, because,basically, because I love him,
um, well, actually, no, we bothvoted for him twice.

(40:30):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (40:31):
Yes, um Sam Sam earned it.

Speaker 1 (40:35):
Sam earned it and uh who voted for him?

Speaker 2 (40:44):
Who?
That would have been Kat, no.

Speaker 1 (40:53):
No, I'm now.
I'm confused.
Why are there three votes?

Speaker 2 (40:56):
I don't know, I don't know, I don't know.
Now I'm second guessing myself.

Speaker 1 (41:04):
Wait, maybe you switched episodes seven and
episode eight no, cause we onlyhad three guests, right?
Or am I crazy?

Speaker 2 (41:12):
Yeah, so I had given a Pippin vote.
I had put in Don Marshall'svote for Pippin on episode seven
.
Oh, so there should be fourguest values One, two, three,
four.
So Bilbo was Don's vote for six, but really really who he

(41:33):
wanted to vote for was Pippin.

Speaker 1 (41:36):
Right, but that's because of Pippin in the next.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (41:40):
Okay, yes, and then Sam was Kat's vote.

Speaker 1 (41:44):
No, pippin was Kat's vote.
My gosh, is it Sam and Gandalf?
Sam and Gandalf, tide.

Speaker 2 (41:52):
Oh my God, you guys.
I can't believe we're doingthis live.

Speaker 1 (41:55):
It's okay.
No, I just I want to make surewe got it right and I think,
because I should have been upthere, bill should have been up
there.
Justice for Bill.
I'm pretty sure Kat's vote wasPippin.
Don's bonus vote for the nextepisode was Pippin and yeah, so
that means that means that means.

(42:21):
I'm terrible at keeping track.
It's okay, I love.
I love that there was somedrama, so an Oscar moment.
We had an Oscar moment righthere, like a moonlight versus
what's it called that love isblind La La Land, yeah, so I

(42:42):
guess.
Lol.
Jk, sam and Gandalf Tide forfirst, which I think makes sense
, because Gandalf really slayedin this in this book.

Speaker 2 (42:51):
Just can't be fired from spreadsheet.
Leah, don't say that Everythingis on a spreadsheet right now.
Literally everything Likebuying a house, throwing a
wedding, moving all of it is onspreadsheets.

Speaker 1 (43:02):
She's not fired, it's not her fault.
We literally had, like we hadto retcon Kat's vote into
something the fact that Donpicked an extra one, like the
chaos was real.
So we're not blaming Jessica,we're blaming chaos.
And yeah and yeah, honestlylike who doesn't love drama, a

(43:22):
little miscount.
I think that's super fun.

Speaker 2 (43:25):
And I'm okay with co-MVPs Sam.

Speaker 1 (43:28):
V.

Speaker 2 (43:28):
Gandalf, I'm okay, they were both.
I mean, I don't know howeverybody in chat feels, but
they were both really importantin my read.

Speaker 1 (43:38):
Yeah, well, light-blinded, full of Gandalf,
I find it bow-wrong.
And that little twerp getsfirst place, turns out.
No, turns out we tie, becauseLord of the Rings values strong,
intimate male relationshipsJust as much as it values
awesome fight scenes.
Okay, I think we can all.
At least I do, at least I lovethat.

Speaker 2 (44:00):
Can we take my shame off the screen now?

Speaker 1 (44:02):
Oh sure, we're ending the screen share.
Oh my gosh, so true, so true.
Light-blinded fools warning younot to copy and paste into the
wrong spreadsheets because it'sSackville.

Speaker 2 (44:16):
You don't want to give Sackville back.
I would never invite theSackville back into my wedding.
I would never.

Speaker 1 (44:24):
You know sometimes a little drama at a wedding is fun
, just like a smidge, just atiny amount of drama stuff.

Speaker 2 (44:31):
I give enough of that from my biological
contributions.
So I'm fine, I like we've gotdrama covered.

Speaker 1 (44:40):
Biological contributions.
That's what we're callingfamily.
I love it.
Okay, I'm a big fan of that.
All right, so we have, we didthe MVP and I hope everyone's
satisfied.
It seems like yes, they were,because everybody was guessing
Gandalf and Sam.
So here we are with Gandalf andSam.
Oh my gosh, I'm just nowrealizing that I can show

(45:00):
comments on stream if I hoverover them.
So that's a fun thing to belearning this far into the
stream.

Speaker 2 (45:07):
You guys, we are technical masters.

Speaker 1 (45:09):
It's insane.

Speaker 2 (45:10):
We are nailing all of this.

Speaker 1 (45:13):
I'm using an entirely different streaming platform
than I usually do for Wheel andChill, so it's like a whole
different.
It's a whole different vibeOkay.
Honestly it is, but we also havethe episode to see.
If she picked Sam, she didn't.
No, you mean Kat, no, shepicked Pippin, and you have to

(45:34):
take my word for it, because theaudio of that is gone and so
it's in the episode, but it's metelling you.
So she did.
She did pick Pippin, right.
I'm almost certain You'remaking me question myself.
It's fine, it's fine.
So while you're answering that,we should talk about our outros

(46:00):
.
I think Now's a good time.
Yeah, no time like the present.
So let me share that screenreally quickly.
Yeah, everybody's everybody isin lifeline at full as agreeing,
and I'm going to take itbecause that's what I think too.
Boom, okay, we are sharing.
These are our episode outros.

(46:23):
Jessica, do you want to readthem or do you want people to
just look at them?

Speaker 2 (46:28):
Do you want to alternate?
I'll?
I'll start with episode one.

Speaker 1 (46:32):
Yeah, that sounds great Okay.

Speaker 2 (46:35):
Here you go, you guys Hold on.

Speaker 1 (46:38):
Aldor says Kat picked Samwise Gamgee.
There's no way Hold on, did I?

Speaker 2 (46:44):
say that wrong.
I think you put it into thevoiceover.
So it is.
It is captured somewhere.

Speaker 1 (46:54):
Let me look at my DMs .
You go ahead and read the firstone.
I'm going to confirm in my DMs,because now I'm really shook.

Speaker 2 (47:02):
All right.
56 minutes into the episode,your voiceover says Sam, okay,
I'm going to read.

Speaker 1 (47:09):
That's on me then, because I know it was Pippin.
Go ahead, jessica.

Speaker 2 (47:12):
It's all good.
So for episode one, we wentwith a sign off that said
Goodbye, dear listeners, untilour next meeting.

Speaker 1 (47:22):
Episode two.
Though it may be dangerousbusiness going out your door,
we're glad you're with us forthis journey.

Speaker 2 (47:30):
For episode three we went with farewell.
We call to hearth and hall.
The wind may blow and rain mayfall.
We must away until next Tuesday.

Speaker 1 (47:42):
Proud of that one.
Episode four keep to the greengrass.
Don't you go on meddling withold stone or cold whites or
prying in their houses, unlessyou be strong folk with hearts
that never falter.

Speaker 2 (47:54):
For episode five.
We love our listeners, likeBaron loves Luthien.

Speaker 1 (48:00):
Episode six.
May your beer be laid under anenchantment of surpassing
excellence for seven years.

Speaker 2 (48:08):
Episode seven may the stars shine upon your faces
until we see you next week.

Speaker 1 (48:14):
Episode eight.
But go now with good hearts.
Farewell, and may the blessingsof elves and men and all free
folk go with you.

Speaker 2 (48:21):
And for episode nine, we closed it out with a stellar
critter impersonation ofGaladriel saying Let not your
heart be sad though night mustfollow noon, and already our
evening drawth nigh.

Speaker 1 (48:34):
So don't feel like you have to type out the entire
thing, because the episodenumbers are right there.
But if you have a favorite, letus know and we can crown one as
the crowning achievement afterthe episode outro of season two
officially oh my gosh, 2, 30 AM.
Aldora, you're a real one forrock star.

(48:56):
So Lea asked how do y'all comeup with these?
They're always so wonderful.
So, Jessica, what's your method?

Speaker 2 (49:02):
Typically I'll try to see if there is something in
the read for the episode and Ihave really lucked out.
Every time critters been likehey, it's your turn and I'm like
perfect.
So you know all thoseridiculous highlights I take.
I try to go back through andsee if any of them are a send
off or a goodbye.
And because we do so muchjourneying and questing, usually

(49:23):
there's something there I canpick from.

Speaker 1 (49:25):
I have the exact same method and, honestly, usually I
feel kind of bad about this.
But because I'm the one thatcreates the outline, I am
usually the one that will reachout to Jess to be like Okay,
which, which episode do you wantto pick the outro for?
And I'll be like, if you don'tmind, I'll do this one.
And, like I at during theoutline I'm like, oh, I found

(49:46):
this quote that now I can takeadvantage of you guys.

Speaker 2 (49:49):
I am so abused as a co-host.
I am treated so poorly.
You have no idea.

Speaker 1 (49:55):
Oh, my gosh, and you know what?
Just for everyone's peace ofmind, I'm going to DM cat just
to make sure that I rememberedher pick, and we will tweet
about it.
So, and we'll post it in thediscord, so we will know for
sure, a hundred percent, if shevoted Pippin or Sam.
And if she voted for Sam, thenSam wins, which I think makes

(50:16):
sense because I love them, andif she didn't, then they're tied
, which I think also makes sensebecause Gandalf was amazing.
So that is going to be ourconflict resolution strategy.
And so, yeah, if you're notfollowing us on Twitter yet, but
Dragon's pod, only one T, okay,so we've got some votes in here
.
Benjamin says episode nine yeah,that one's beautiful.

(50:38):
Little Galadriel, I believe.
Episode eight I love that onetoo.
I think that one's a lovely,just overall fantasy vibe.
Outro, episode two I think thatone is really nice.
El Dora, that one I reallyliked.
The, though it may be adangerous business going out

(50:59):
your door, that's always likehit me in the feels, like that
little sentiment from I feellike that was a Frodo quote.

Speaker 2 (51:08):
No, that was a Gandalf quote.

Speaker 1 (51:13):
I thought it was Frodo quoting Bilbo, but I trust
your notes more than my memory.

Speaker 2 (51:18):
I'll be able to tell you in a second now that it's
important.
Okay, okay, okay.

Speaker 1 (51:25):
Gandalf's going to secretly set it up, so it's a
tie.
That sounds about right to me.
Most heartwarming episode five.
We love our listeners likeBaron, love Lucy, I agree the
best birthday present ever issix.
Yeah, excellent beer.
That one, I think, is funny,like it's one of the funnier
ones.
Okay, episode four.

Speaker 2 (51:45):
Episode four was Tom Bombadil.

Speaker 1 (51:49):
Oh yeah, it was Okay.
So are there any duplicates?
I feel like you know what Ithink, though.
Okay, layla's episode eight,wait nine, got multiples.

Speaker 2 (51:59):
Well, I don't know if El Dora was saying that episode
nine is their choice.
They quoted episode nine butthen below it said episode two
is simpler, but I really likethe vibe.

Speaker 1 (52:14):
Oh, I see.
I'm choosing to assume that ElDora is just commenting on how
late it is for them.

Speaker 2 (52:21):
But Absolutely fine.

Speaker 1 (52:23):
Episode eight has two and I do really like episode
eight.

Speaker 2 (52:27):
I do too.

Speaker 1 (52:28):
I do have a soft spot for nine, because it's
Galadriel.
Okay, nine and eight.
Basically, what we're saying iswe got better as time went on.
Yes, yeah, I love that for us.
Oh, but El Dora is an officialpick, us too.
So it's eight.
But now go with.
But go now with good hearts,farewell, and may the blessings
of elves and men and all freefolk could go with you.

(52:49):
I think that's a good one thatcould work for like any season.
You know what I mean Like,which I think maybe is why
people like it.
That makes sense.

Speaker 2 (52:58):
So right here, while we've got, you know, the folks
who hang out with us the most onstream, what do we think our
plan should be for season three?
Do we want to keep doing thiswe workshop at every episode.
Or do we want to try and pickfrom the last two seasons and
see if, if the group wants tohelp us pick, or if we have a

(53:21):
winner between the two groups,or keep workshopping?
What do you think, critter?

Speaker 1 (53:27):
I like the workshop.
So I was just going to say,like I know, in our mind we were
talking about, like how a lotof things have outros that
people know them by or whatever,and part of me thinks that
after two seasons we have anintro that we do every time,
which is so like people knowwhat we sound like at the
beginning and I think like ourthing kind of has become

(53:49):
workshopping out.

Speaker 2 (53:51):
I was doing them different every time and yeah it
looks like a lot of votes forworkshopping in the chat, so
yeah, I'm kind of doing it yeah.

Speaker 1 (54:00):
I love flexing my creative muscles, even though
sometimes they're like very weak, and then I have to lean on
Jessica.

Speaker 2 (54:07):
But I think we lean into each other.
I feel like I feel like we makea good team.

Speaker 1 (54:12):
Yeah, I agree.
I agree, we like pick up wherethe other is slacking.
If not that you ever slack, youpick up when I'm slacking and
it feels great.
So we're a team.
So, oh, I'll door.
I love that often.
Look for good outro quotes asI'm reading.
Do we ever line up with whatyou've identified?
Is it ever like oh, I know thatthat's what they're going to
pick?

Speaker 2 (54:33):
And also if you have picks, you're welcome to share
with us.

Speaker 1 (54:37):
Yeah, because sometimes we're like oof,
Scramble me 30 minutes beforerecording time.
What's my outro?
It's my time, so something tothink about.
You know, we love feedback andwe do, we generally.

Speaker 2 (54:51):
We like feedback as well.
That's definitely.
We've lined up a few timesAwesome.

Speaker 1 (54:55):
Nice, yeah, I was a.
I really, even though I don'tthink episode three got any
votes, which is fine, I wasreally proud of that one because
it rhymed.
We lost away until next Tuesday.
I was just like this one.
Now this one appeals to.
That would appeal to Bilbo, Ithink.

Speaker 2 (55:13):
And you're responsible for.
We love our listeners likeBaron loves Luthien.
That was also your brainchild.
It was it was.

Speaker 1 (55:21):
That's true.
Yes, because it's true.
Yeah, and you know, I justabsolutely didn't get any votes
either, but that one, I wasscrambling, but then it was like
that's what Gandalf says afterBilbo leaves, I think, and I was
like that is such a sweet, likeI love that, I don't know.

(55:42):
It just like made my heart kindof like twinge a little bit.
So I think that one's reallygood to.
I'm proud of all of them.
Frankly, I think we did a greatjob with our outros.
Yeah, yeah, okay.
So it's been about an hour,which is our normal episode run
time.
I know, isn't that crazyAlready, an hour wild.
So before we leave, is thereanything that we haven't talked

(56:04):
about from the book?
Anybody in the chat, anyquestions you have for us?
Or Jessica as a first timereader, or me as someone who
read them a thousand years agoand remembers basically what's
in the movies?
No, let us know before we startoff.
But yeah, jessica, do you haveanything else that you want to
hit on before we call it?

Speaker 2 (56:25):
I'm really glad that I read it.
I look forward to when we diveinto the two towers.
I'm really glad that I read itbecause I think that there's a
lot of context there that ispotentially hinted at or was
kept, as this is the last timethey will ever go there ever.

(56:47):
There's a lot of stuff that I'msure is hinted at and is used
to subtext and I can't wait tocash all of those when I do the
watch.
But I feel like I understandthese characters so much more
thoroughly than I ever had ahope in getting from just the
movies.
So I'm excited.

(57:09):
I had been told I think Ishared in a previous episode or
maybe it's season one One rapthat I have been told that Lord
of the Rings is a tougher read.
I didn't necessarily find it,so far at least, to be tougher,
but definitely a more sombertone, a more serious tone, and

(57:32):
I'm looking forward to seeingwhere it goes.
Okay.

Speaker 1 (57:35):
I feel like you just answered the question that Leia
asked.
I might have missed, but, Jess,it is intimidating, boring
whatever other stereotypes youheard before reading.

Speaker 2 (57:44):
So yeah, so just to elaborate that on just a little
bit, more is the wording andstuff.
So there are definitely somemoments, like when I have to
look up words.
It makes me feel a little sillysometimes because I think of
myself as a relatively well readindividual.
But I just try to take it instride now, tongue in cheek, and

(58:04):
just laugh at myself and go.
There was no way in hell Iwould have known what that word
is.
Just move on and get over it.

Speaker 1 (58:10):
Yeah, we're learning.

Speaker 2 (58:12):
I find it is intimidating, as some people
might, but I can see why itwould be intimidating.
It's not to minimize anybodyelse's experience, because I've
read.
I'm somebody that reads Beowulfand has done Shakespeare and
stuff not to say that I'mawesome, but those things don't

(58:33):
throw me off.
I still have to spend a lot oftime to comprehend that stuff
but it doesn't scare me off likeother things.
And that way I did not findTolkien's writing style
intimidating, but I can see whyit would be off-putting for some
.
The writing style is 75, 80years old.

(58:53):
That's not for everybody.
It is not contemporary in thatway.

Speaker 1 (58:58):
Yeah, and I guess I as a kid somehow missed it.
I didn't notice it because I,again, was just thirsting for
the story and the story wasenough to keep me invested.
But now I was an English minor.
I read early English literatureand that stuff is.
It was earlier than this, itwas dry, it was really dry, and

(59:20):
so this, compared to that, oh mygosh, it's a barn buster.
We are having a great time,party, party, party.
You know what I mean.
So I think it depends on yourexperience with literature.
My sister, for example,struggled to get through Harry
Potter.
She's not a reader.
She tried and has not yetgotten through fellowship.

(59:41):
I think she did get through theHobbit, but the Hobbit is
objectively a faster read in myopinion, and so it's just.
You know like I get it,depending on what you're used to
.
It can be slower, it can bedrier, but I think it's a worthy
investment, even if it's tough.
You know it's like Dune, in myopinion, another really dry one,
but I think it's, at least thefirst book, a worthy investment.

(01:00:06):
But, yeah, there was somethingelse that I thought oh, oh, oh.
Aldor, I believe at thebeginning, at the beginning,
like a little bit ago asked howwe felt about the ending,
because I do think the ending wetalked about it a little bit in
the Discord the ending comparedto the movie is not as
cinematic, let's put it that way.
So do you have any thoughts onthat, more than like what we hit

(01:00:30):
on in the episode?

Speaker 2 (01:00:34):
Not necessarily more than I would just go back to it.
Really, I liked it mostlybecause it clearly showed that
it was Frodo's choice.
They weren't being forced intoit because they were being
overrun by orcs.
You know the struggle betweenhim and Boromir very intense.

(01:00:57):
We had a lot of discussionabout that, yeah.
But I think that I genuinelyliked the ending because it
showed Frodo being decisive.
It showed Samwise beinginsightful and decisive.
So, granted, not as cinematicright, it's a different medium.

(01:01:17):
I'm not going to hold it tothat standard.

Speaker 1 (01:01:20):
Yeah, and I think somebody in the Discord
mentioned that like this wasmeant to be one big book, right?
So the things that theFellowship of the Ring movie
pulled from the beginning ofbook two and put in the end of
movie one to like spice up theending and give it like more
gravitas, they were in Tolkien'smind.

(01:01:43):
It was just going to gostraight through, right.
And so it's kind of like almostunfair to be like well, it
could have been cooler, right,because it is that cool.
You just have to keep reading,you have to just continue the
story that he wanted to be allone story in the first place.
I do think could they have likecut it in a different spot to

(01:02:04):
make it more exciting?
I mean, probably like I thinkthe Fellowship of the Ring movie
is dang near like the Lord ofthe Rings movies are my favorite
movies of all time and I thinkthe Fellowship of the Ring movie
is a perfect movie.
You know it's perfectly paced.
I think the ending is sopowerful.
You know whenever I mean we'veall seen the movie so spoilers

(01:02:25):
for the beginning of Two Towers,the book, but Boromir's death
is just like, is just like heartwrenching, and and since we
didn't get that in book, in thein the Fellowship of the Ring,
the book.
Right now, we hate Boromir.
We're like, oh my, or some ofus, such a struggle?
Yeah, it's a struggle.
And so, like knowing whathappens to him, I'm like, okay,

(01:02:46):
like I will retroactivelyforgive you or whatever, like
preemptively, I guess, forgiveyou because I know what you're
going to do in the future.
But at the same time, like atthe end of this book, you were,
I didn't like you at all, butnot at all.
And so, yeah, I'm, I'm.
I absolutely see why you wouldsay that the end of the book

(01:03:10):
fizzles a bit, because it is not.
If you're comparing it to themovie, which is a hard thing not
to do, it is not as exciting.

Speaker 2 (01:03:18):
And I would say that it's very easy for me from a
mental perspective to be like hemeant this as one unit.
Yeah, so I'm like I can just.
I can just ease up on myexpectations of that as a
denouement, as a closure.
You know what I mean, becauseI'm like in his mind this was a
unit of measure, the entire work.

Speaker 1 (01:03:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:03:38):
So I'm able to just go, meh, okay, it's a natural
break.
It may not be like full onclosure, but it is a break.

Speaker 1 (01:03:50):
I am being harsh, yes , slightly to full.
I am saying that I wish Boromirtaught in the fellowship.
I think he would be moresympathetic if he had, because
right now we are not we, as inme, the royal we, we are not
team Boromir at the moment.
Okay, based on a lot of thestuff that we talked about in
our final episode.

(01:04:10):
So if it's harsh, so be it.
And Aldora says that they needto see how the beginning of Two
Towers is like in the booksuntil they can form their full
opinion of that makes it andthat does make sense Because
it's yeah, if you, if youcontinue reading and look at it,
as this is the same book orwhatever, it's probably I assume

(01:04:34):
can't speak for everyone oranyone besides myself that it
will feel more complete almostimmediately.

Speaker 2 (01:04:41):
But ironically, I was going to say that.
So you know we talk about.
I think one of the last thingsthat we wanted to touch on was
Hobbit versus Fellowship.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So you know I'll, I'll plowright into that.
You know, I really likedfellowship, but Hobbit still
takes the lead for me right nowand I'm curious to see if my

(01:05:03):
relationship with fellowshipchanges as I get further into
the series.
Yeah, but that was somethingthat we had discussed previously
about.
You know, I love, I loved theHobbit.
I really very much enjoyed theHobbit, but I was able to enjoy
it as as a serving.
So I'm I'm not there with thefellowship right now currently.

(01:05:25):
Yeah, no, I'd still pick Hobbitfirst, and I'm curious to see
if that changes as we continueon.

Speaker 1 (01:05:31):
Yeah, Despite me saying that the fellowship of
the ring is the perfect movie, Iagree with you.
As far as the books go, I hadmore fun Not that I didn't have
fun reading fellowship because Idid, but I had more fun reading
the Hobbit because it wasfunnier, like it had more humor.
I liked the snarky narrator,Like I know that you were, you,

(01:05:52):
you, uh, I don't know you.
You butt heads with the snarkynarrator a few times, like for
the heavy hand just needed alittle bit of an adjusted period
, yeah, yeah, but like I, I liketo think of myself as if I were
an author, like that would bekind of my vibe, and so I just
like really resonated with it.
Um, and just the story was, youknow, it's like it's a complete

(01:06:13):
story and so I think maybethat's what you're getting at
Like you can't really judge thefellowship because it's not a
complete story yet.
We're ongoing and so you're notgoing to feel the satisfaction
it's like, for example, wealways have.
We haven't talked about thewheel of time yet and so we're
both a big wheel of time fan.

Speaker 2 (01:06:27):
Can't get through an episode without any wheel of
time.

Speaker 1 (01:06:30):
It's like saying, you know, picking one book, or like
the eye of the world book, onefrom the wheel of time, and
being like it's better than Idon't know, insert a standalone
book, like maybe some peoplewould do that and I think you
know it could be fair dependingon the book, but it's like it's
a tough sell to have just apartial story be like the end

(01:06:53):
all be all book.
And it's interesting because,like Don Marshall said,
fellowship of the ring, I think,if I remember right and now my
memory is in question because ofthat MVP, but it doesn't matter
, I'm going to have to like, I'mgoing to have to put like an
asterisk in the description ofthat on YouTube to really amend
what I did.
Anyway, it doesn't matter, Ifeel bad.
But because you and I are sofar removed from the remaining

(01:07:17):
two books you never having readthem and me having read them so
long ago it's really hard to sayfellowship is number one over
the hobbit, which is a completestory.
I know I don't have circlesthere, but no, that's where.

Speaker 2 (01:07:29):
I'm landed, you know what I mean.
And again, I'm passive, right,so I'm completely fine waiting,
I did.
I did in fact do the same thingwith Wheel of Time, right, like
I did not.
I refused to pick a favoritebook for ages, yeah, you know,
until I finished the season, theseries, and had some time to

(01:07:50):
really digest and think about,like, what were really some of
my favorite moments.
So I just feel like the same isgoing to be true here for me.
I think that there was a lot ofstuff in the fellowship that
was incredibly iconic andinteresting and the stuff where
it deviates had made just astight as the stuff that was
verbatim.
But I want I reserve judgment.

(01:08:13):
Yeah, I think that's totallyfair and yeah, the hobbit was
more fun.

Speaker 1 (01:08:18):
I fellowship was deeper, probably.
You know it had more.
You know more, you know more,you know more, you know it had
more nuance.
It had more, I don't know.
The roots went deeper, it's aharder thing to describe, but it
the world building was moreextensive, I think, and I like
what Aldora said.

Speaker 2 (01:08:36):
You know, they said that they prefer the more adult
tone.
Totally, completely valid take,I think I do too.
I'm just, I'm just going tohold out a little bit.

Speaker 1 (01:08:47):
Yeah, I think we also had such a fun time reading the
hobbit, like together, right,it's like this, yes, like our
first season and like all youknow, diving into Tolkien for
the first time together.
It was a, it was a specialmoment for both of us and so so
we both looked back on it fondly, and so we'll see, we'll see

(01:09:11):
what happens when two towerscomes up and and return of the
king eventually, oof.
And even though I, by the way,just to set the record straight,
even though I think theFellowship of the Ring is the
perfect movie, it's not myfavorite of the trilogy.
Gotcha, yeah, because I reallylike emotion, I like to cry Like
, I like like cathartic feelings, and those happen for me the

(01:09:33):
most in the return of the king.
So that's my favorite movie,but noted, yeah, just so we're
all.
What's what's?
What's your favorite Lord ofthe Rings movie?

Speaker 2 (01:09:48):
It's probably fellowship.
Honestly, yeah, return of theKing does have all of that
emotional cash out that you'retalking about, but I think the
fellowship was so satisfying Ijust I remember.
I remember watching it andthinking this is what I've been
waiting for my whole life thislevel of fantasy blockbuster on

(01:10:13):
my screen.
Not to, you know, put too muchweight on it.

Speaker 1 (01:10:18):
But no, I genuinely.

Speaker 2 (01:10:20):
Genuinely, you know, as someone who grew up watching
things like V and the originalDune and things like this not
that those aren't wonderful intheir own categories, but this
was, you know I felt like PeterJackson's treatment of Lord of
the Rings was a real coming ofage story and broke ground for

(01:10:41):
so many more things in a visualmedia, much like Tolkien, broke
ground for fantasy as a genre asa whole.
Yeah, so yeah, the, the abilityto see the fellowship on screen
was everything.
It was every vibe, every, everyfantasy thing I'd ever wanted

(01:11:05):
to see in more.

Speaker 1 (01:11:06):
Well, I could totally see that.
Plus, it's an insane movie,like it's a perfect movie, so a
totally valid pick.
And, yeah, you vouch, no oneOof for me, that's just all of
it.
I just love it so much.
Can't wait till we get to.
Whatever version of thathappens in the books.
We'll see.
It could be different, could bethe same.
We'll never know until we getthere.

(01:11:29):
Okay, so I feel like we hit allthe high points that we wanted
to hit.
Yes, true, so I think it'simportant, given some comments
that I've seen, that people arelooking forward to continuing,
or already continued to knowwhen season three is going to
begin, because we wanted you allto know that there's going to
be a small break between seasons, which makes sense because

(01:11:52):
they're separate seasons.
I have some cosplay crafting toattend to in haste, because
we've got Jordan Khan coming upand I'm I'm allegedly crafting
an IEEL costume out of leather,and so we'll see how that goes.
And so, yes, we're eyeingbetween our first episode for

(01:12:13):
two towers being between, likethe beginning of April and the
middle of April.
So if you're behind, you've gottime to catch up.
If you were ahead in the firstplace, feel free to continue
being ahead.
If you have a book that youwere hoping to read but didn't
know if you'd have a chance,here's your chance.
Like to read in between.
You know what I mean?
Like a little little book,bookmark book, a little,

(01:12:35):
whatever we will be sure toshare on socials, though, and on
critters discord.

Speaker 2 (01:12:42):
If you're not part of that but we were we will be
keeping you posted when we knowthat that is official and we,
like, have a drop date, butthat's generally what we're
looking at.
So, again, whether your plan isto catch up, surpass us, take a
break.
Maybe you have your own funkycosplays you need to build.
Who knows, who knows?

Speaker 1 (01:13:02):
Who knows?
But yeah, so that is the plan,and apologies if you were hoping
that we'd go straight through,but sometimes life demands
cosplay, crafting.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:13:17):
But when we come back , we're coming back like
gangbusters.

Speaker 1 (01:13:20):
Yeah, weekly Tuesday drops, as you've come to expect,
hopefully new guests and maybesome repeat guests, and it
should be a hell of a good time.
And if you have any commentsabout the way that we do things,
you know like, if the pace,whatever, you know, like, are we
reading too many chapters perepisode, not enough chapters,

(01:13:41):
I'll tell you right now we'renot going to read more chapters
per episode.
But if you have that comment,you're welcome to make it.
Just, you know, let us know.
And because we we won'tnecessarily change based on your
comments, but I think feedbackis important, just to hear what
people think.
Love it.

Speaker 2 (01:13:58):
Yeah, I will take this moment.
Critter said it earlier.
I'll say it again.
Thank you all for listening,for coming to the live streams,
if you interact with us onsocial, if you interact with us
on Critters, discord, thank you.
We love hearing from you guys,to whatever extent that you're
willing to play with us.
It makes it so much more fun,so please keep doing it.

(01:14:21):
We love it.
It is hugely inspiring to knowthat you guys are reading along
with us.

Speaker 1 (01:14:28):
It is and like, we love that you're here, we love
that you listen, and if youdon't do anything, we still
appreciate you being along forthe ride.
But if you do feel like takingyour support like to the next
level and you haven't reviewedus wherever you know, like if
you watch us on YouTube, ifyou're subscribed to the channel
and you like the videosincredible, if you felt like

(01:14:49):
branching out, finding us onSpotify or Apple Podcasts and
giving us a review would besuper, super helpful, because
that helps with the algorithm,it helps with discoverability
and yeah.
So if you and if you do listenon Apple and or Spotify and you
haven't left a review yet, thatwould be super lovely and we

(01:15:09):
would love if you did that.
So, no pressure, we just lovethat you're here, but if you
felt like it, I mean, we totallywelcome that.
We would appreciate that too.
Yeah, for sure, and we did notcome up with an outro for this,
but I think it would beappropriate to use the favorite
outro as the outro for theseason, because it was the

(01:15:30):
season winner.
So, jessica, do you want to?
I believe this was one that youpicked, not that we're keeping
score.

Speaker 2 (01:15:40):
Did we do?
Episode nine Eight, okay, okay,thank you all again.
We can't wait to see you,hopefully in about a month, but
keep an eye on our socials andwe will keep you updated as soon
as we have a plan.
In the meantime, what we wouldsay is go now with good hearts,
fare well, and may the blessingsof elves and men and all free

(01:16:01):
folk go with you.
Bye, good night.