April 30, 2024 • 61 mins
Join Kritter and Jessica as they dive back in with Two Towers, chapters 1-3. The action is high as we find out what becomes of Boromir, run multiple marathons with Aragorn, Gimli, and Legolas, and catch up with Merry and Pippin!
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Music credit to: Frog's Theme by Nobuo Uematsu, Noriko Matsueda, Yasunori Mitsuda
ReMix: Chrono Trigger "Theme of Frog's" - OC ReMix
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kritter (00:04):
Welcome to, but Are there Dragons?
A podcast where two friendspick a book at least one of them
has not read and work their waythrough it a few chapters at a
time.
I'm your host, Kritter, and I'myour host Jess, and we're
continuing this adventure withthe Two Towers by JRR Tolkien,
with me as the resident Lord ofthe Rings veteran.
Jessica (00:23):
And me as the Lord of the Rings, first timer In this
our first regular season episodeof season three.
Kritter (00:31):
We're going to discuss book three, chapters one through
three.
It's a lot of threes.
Keep up Before we dive in.
Jessica, what is new with you?
How are you feeling?
Jessica (00:41):
I'm good.
I'm fresh off of JordanCon itfeels like still but was really
excited to get back into thisbook.
The night we got home I startedmy reading assignment and it's
good to kind of get back in thegroove with Tolkien.
Kritter (00:56):
It was a little alarming.
Jessica (00:58):
Chapter one I was like who am I?
Do I go here?
Who's doing what to who?
But I'm happy to be back in theswing.
How about you?
Kritter (01:07):
Feeling good, so I started this read.
It was on the plane toJordanCon, actually, and so it
was the first time that I waslistening and kind of like
working on the outline at thesame time instead of going back
through after.
I listened to the whole thingand it was.
I feel like it was prettyefficient, and if you could be
one three, you whole thing.
And it was.
I feel like it was prettyefficient, and if you could be
one three, you should beefficient.
But no, I really enjoyed thesefirst two chapters.
(01:30):
It was nice to get back into it.
I did take a little breather,read a couple of books in our
hiatus in the interim, and soit's good to be back to Tolkien,
for sure.
I think we talked about this alittle, but you read a couple of
books as well, correct?
During the interim.
Jessica (01:47):
I did so.
There is a an author that Ibecame familiar with through
Brandon Sanderson named DarciCole, and she does some YA
gender bender fairy taleretellings.
And I backed her Kickstarterand I mass consumed the first
two books of the Unbroken Talestrilogy because the Kickstarter
(02:10):
was backing her third book,which is coming very soon, and
they were.
They were so much fun.
It was my first time jumpinginto YA official YA, not
miscategorized YA uh-huh, uh-huhand uh, it was really enjoyable
.
It was very nice and light itwas.
(02:32):
There were still definitelyserious themes.
Um, it was.
It was just a really goodpalette cleanser for sure, not
to mention fun content all onits own, yeah nice.
Kritter (02:45):
I read ledge by stacy mcguin um, I think that's what
you pronounce, I'm not sure.
Uh, the color, the covers arebeautiful, but the reason I
picked up the book in the firstplace is because we're mutuals
on tiktok and she is hilarious.
She's got this series where shejust like training your fantasy
husband and it's so funny.
Um, the book is, it's, it's uh,oh, it's kind of hard to
(03:08):
describe.
It is a romantic scene, let'sput it that way, and it was a
fun little romp.
It was much lighter and easierto read than the lord of the
rings, and so the palettecleanser factor was definitely
there.
And then I also reread yumi andthe nightmare painter to prep
prep by Brandon Sanderson, toprep for my Yumi and the
Nightmare Painter panel atJordan Kahn, which I think went
really well.
(03:29):
So it was a fun reread.
It was my first reread, so nowI've read it twice.
I maintain that the book issuper fun and cute and Brandon
Sanderson's at least tied forhis best romance and and yeah,
so it was nice to revisit thatin the interim.
But I, as I said, very happy tobe back to talking.
So you want to dive in, let'sdo it, okay.
(03:52):
So I don't know if this was thecase for you, but in the
audiobook the there was anepigraph um, and we got the one
ring to rule them all poem thing.
Did you have that, or was thatjust the audiobook?
Jessica (04:06):
was it?
Do you mean between book twoand book three?
Did I get that?
Kritter (04:11):
I guess you're asking me, I guess, the audiobook for
the two towers?
The very first thing that wasread to me was the epigraph, and
it was the one ring to rulethem all.
I did not get that okay, well,never mind immediately.
Jessica (04:24):
So I have the trilogy as one compilation file on my
kindle and there's the end ofbook two.
Uh, second part of lord of therings of two towers, marked as
book three, immediately startswith chapter one, the departure
of boromir okay.
Kritter (04:41):
Well, there's a little deviation I think I was cheated.
Well, I don't know, becausepart of me was like I feel like
that has happened.
We've heard that in the bookalready.
Like, didn't we?
Because isn't that what'sinscribed on the ring?
Jessica (04:54):
um, yes, so when gandalf had thrown it in the
fire.
I think we had heard thatcontent at that point right.
Kritter (05:02):
So I was trying to remember like I feel, like this
isn't new, I don't.
I don't think it would have forthe first time showed up in the
epigraph of the two towers and,uh, turns out I was right.
So okay, um, it was nice tohear.
Obviously, the tolkien has somebeautiful verse, but that was
not something you were privy to.
So let's dive right in then tobook three, chapter one, the
(05:25):
departure ofomir.
So, given that chapter title,we knew what was coming.
What I wasn't prepared for washow different it was from the
movies.
How are you feeling aboutBoromir's end?
Jessica (05:44):
um I I don't know that I've had, I don't know that how
many books I've read like in aseries.
So there aren't that manyseries reads that I've done
really.
Um, middle books and trilogiesare are tough for a lot of
reasons in my, in my limitedexperience.
So starting off on such a veryaction-packed sequence was a
(06:04):
little disjointed um the ways inwhich it was different.
I felt that the emotion wasbigger here.
I felt that aragorn's um thisuh desolation at boromir's death
, um his he continued to do someemotional hand-wringing because
(06:28):
of boromir's death and uh tookon a little bit more.
I feel not necessarily that hetook on fault, but like he
really uh took took this as ablow.
I guess it was a really bigdeal that Boromir died.
He was very aggrieved by it.
(06:49):
It seemed like he took at leastpartial responsibility because
of lack of decision-making.
I don't know.
I had a little bit of a hardtime with Aragorn's response to
Boromir's death, the fact thathe is the heir of Denethor, an
identified hero in his own right, all of that you know, peer to
peer I can understand.
(07:09):
He just seemed very emotionalcompared to how, I mean it was.
I guess it was emotional in themovies.
It felt more, I guess, on thepage.
Kritter (07:20):
Yeah, I feel like the death scene in itself, or at
least whenever they discoveredhim and Aragorn had that moment
with Boromir before Boromir.
In a lot of ways the moviedialogue did where the books
really didn't.
And I know that we were I was,I at least was a major boromir
(07:52):
hater.
Last book and this didn'treally redeem him for me.
Like even in it, with his dyingbreath, he was like you should
go to, I'm just like bro, biggerpicture.
Jessica (08:03):
Oh my god so I had a couple of feelings about that
one.
I can't remember what was saidin the death scene because it's
been that much, it's been longenough that, like I can't really
remember okay, I rememberaragorn being there.
Um, to your point about him notnecessarily redeeming himself,
he did confess you know a little.
Kritter (08:26):
Yeah, he did.
Jessica (08:27):
No, the confession was a point in his favor um, I feel
like you're entitled to youropinion, no matter what I say.
I feel like the last call tominister was still just to point
out that this is him at hiscore, right.
Like he is a faithful servant ofhis people till the end, and
(08:51):
that was how I took that, notthat that has to change or
impact how you took it.
Like, yeah, I had just a littlebit of a problem with the, with
aragorn's reaction in the book,but at the same time I liked
(09:12):
that it did feel more emotionaland relevant to him than it did
in the movie.
Kritter (09:16):
So yeah, do with that what you will yeah, I do think
that, like now that we've movedfrom the death, I think the
funeral scene was justbeautifully written.
Jessica (09:27):
Like absolutely.
Kritter (09:28):
There was literary umami dripping off the page in
that scene.
I didn't write any down becauseI was on the plane and whatever
, but like damn, I don't know,that gave me chills and they
came up with a song, just likeon the spot, about Boromir and
all of his deeds.
And then, of course, ghiblididn't.
He's, like you guys, left thebad verse to me, so I'm not
(09:48):
going to take that on.
Jessica (09:52):
Yeah, it was.
Just it was very iconic.
That's what I had written.
That it was incredibly and youknow to your point the literary
umami right, the callbacks to,you know, in the history of
Minas Tirith going forward, the.
In the history of Minas Tirithgoing forward, the long boat
will always be remembered.
So it was.
I thought that it was verybeautifully written.
I do feel like it wasrepresented in the movie, from
what I remember.
Kritter (10:13):
Yeah, no, I think the movie was maybe the his.
The funeral scene was moreabbreviated in the movie for
sure.
So like I guess I would givethe death scene in the movie was
better, cause like well, wealso, well, we actually, we read
about it later, but like thedeath scene in the movie was
better, the funeral scene in thebook was better in my opinion
that's where I'm at yeah, okay,so let's see two roads diverged
(10:39):
before Aragorn Gimli and Legolas, and notably Minas Tirith was
not one of them.
How do you feel about Aragorn'sGimli and Legolas, and notably
Minas Tirith, was not one ofthem.
How do you feel about Aragorn'schoice to follow the captured
hobbits instead of the ringbearer?
Jessica (10:53):
I was happy because he made a choice.
He's been paralyzed.
Yeah, a little bit of thedecision.
Paralysis has been a littledifficult for me and I did the
language that he had in there.
I thought Tolkien had a nicejob.
You know I don't think I have apart to play anymore in the
ring bearer's quest.
You know, I think that I didtake note, though he did say
(11:17):
would have gone with him untilthe end.
There is a line in there thatdoes in fact say it, so I
thought that jumped off the pageat me.
I did like the fact that heacknowledged that made a choice
and was decisive.
I also only at that moment,though again because I'm such a
(11:38):
passive reader was like oh right, they don't actually know where
anybody is.
This is the Scoobyoby-doomystery of it all, and I have to
uh stow what I know and seewhat they learn on the way to
try and figure out what happenedto all the hobbitses I feel
kind of like a hypocrite, but Iam a thousand percent willing to
(12:01):
forgive aragorn for giving upon frodo and going to follow
Merry and Pippin would have.
Kritter (12:07):
Boromir would have made that decision.
I'd be like Boromir, focus onthe task at hand, it's all about
the ring.
Jessica (12:13):
my dude Boromir would have chosen Minas Tirith and not
Merry and Pippin.
Kritter (12:18):
Yeah, they wouldn't have even been in the picture.
It would have been all aboutMinas Tirith.
I agree, and so, yes, I justwanted to acknowledge decision
stance no, I'm happy with this.
I think aragorn made the rightchoice.
You know, it's one of thoselike no hobbit left behind
situation.
I think it was the more ethicalchoice, especially because it
didn't take away any agency fromfrodo who had clearly
(12:39):
deliberately left them for areason, and aragorn kind of read
the tea leaves like okay, thisis possibly just how it's
supposed to be, um, andthankfully sam is with him, so
at least there's that, um, okay,so this chapter was pretty
short, but pretty important.
Do you have any final thoughtsbefore we move on?
Jessica (13:01):
just I don't, um, I don't remember ever reading like
a middle child book that startswith such an iconic death.
Um, so it was quite a way tojump back into it.
I think that's probably mybiggest vibe from chapter one
yeah, chapter one was a major.
Kritter (13:17):
This was meant to be one book flag like sign signpost
.
Jessica (13:22):
Yeah, now I have to go back in the discord and see all
the comments made about thetransition from from the
fellowship to the two towers.
Now I can go back and readthose.
Kritter (13:32):
Yeah, it's kind of rough because, like, I think
there was a little bit of like,oh, fellowship ended up like,
with a little bit of a whimperand then, right at the beginning
of two, two towers, it's, youknow starts with a bang.
So there's, uh, yeah, it's,it's just, you know, you, you
got to think of it as one story,I think, and then all of your
complaints go away, all of them.
There aren't any left.
I think you're probably right.
Okay, so book three, chaptertwo, the writers of rohan.
(13:59):
Um, now I'm, uh, from the moviesI'm a bit of an, a of more
girly.
Like, growing up he was the guyI had a crush on.
It wasn't legolas, it wasn'taragorn, it was aomer.
So I was.
When I saw this chapter heading, I was like let's go.
So, anyways, let's uh, theytravel day and night by, they I
mean legolas, gimley and aragornacross terrain.
(14:20):
That sounds absolutely gorgeous.
Um, aragorn looks longingly togondor and legolas notices an
eagle far away, perhaps the sameeagle aragorn spotted last
chapter while he sat on the seatat the top of the hill.
Any guesses what this eagle isup to?
Or stand out moments from thisearly part of the chase?
Jessica (14:39):
my very first bullet is there's an eagle super high up
uh-huh throwaway comment supersus.
That was my very first commenton this chapter um I don't.
I don't know what the eagles dobecause they have autonomy.
So it turns out they do thingsfor for no apparent reason and I
I'll find out later.
Um, so I'm not 100 sure what tothink, because the eagles are
(15:00):
intelligent and have autonomyand do all kinds of stuff yeah,
part of me was like, okay, sorry, just keep going.
Kritter (15:07):
Keep that thought.
But, like with the eagle, Ithought, okay, they've seen the
fell beast before, right, theyencountered a fell beast, so
surely they wouldn't like, misslike, or they they wouldn't call
it an eagle if there was achance that it wasn't an eagle.
And then, and then that made mewonder, like, what the hell are
these eagles up to?
I guess they're just keepingtabs, that's all I can guess.
Jessica (15:26):
So, and keep going, well, and then I was going to
make the comment.
You had mentioned the geographythat they're trekking through
um and so this is our firstsession.
back after a little bit of ahiatus, and I was reminded that
I don't know as many words as Ithink I know.
So in this chapter I waslooking up meads and fens and
(15:50):
reed and wools, All of thesewords where I'm like I think
that I'm a fairly well readindividual.
And then we jump back in and Iget my reminder that I know
nothing.
Kritter (16:01):
You know that's good of you, though, because, like all
several of those words youmentioned, I don't know what
they're actually, what theyactually are in my brain.
Jessica (16:10):
They are landscape they are they are in fact landscape,
and and that's um but I thinkthat's a little bit of the I I
need to know thing.
It's a little ridiculous, it'sit's a little ridiculous.
Kritter (16:23):
You're learning things.
I didn't look it up, so Ididn't learn anything.
Jessica (16:26):
So meads is just another word for meadows, turns
out that makes sense.
Fens are like moors or marshes.
Okay, wouldn't have guessed,all right.
And I had to look up, read, andnow I can't remember.
But it's like getting a read ona joint, getting a read on a
place, like getting a beat on aplace.
(16:47):
I have it highlighted and I cansend it to you, but it was just
.
It stood out for me again,because I'm reading and not
doing audio.
It's spelled differently.
It's R E D E.
Kritter (17:00):
Oh, okay.
Jessica (17:01):
When I heard reads, I probably just assumed, like
greenery, you know.
Yeah, no, it's r-e-d-e whichstood out to me, and same with
walt, w-o-l-d, um, which is likebasically a high place.
So I, I mean, I did take thetime to look them all up, but
well done it's a little I'm like, oh so some humility to start.
Kritter (17:24):
Book two got it got it, got it, got it, okay.
So, um, we have not.
Well, a little ways into thetrek, they discover a brooch
right the lothlorian.
Uh, it was the bro they.
They called it the broach right.
I'm not making that up.
(17:45):
Okay, and Aragorn says Not idlydid the leaves of Lorien fall.
First reaction to that was man.
I wish people talked like that,Like in real life.
I don't know there's so manyinstances of that in these books
, but like that one inparticular was like Not idly did
the leaves, it just delightedme.
I don't know if you want tocall it literary umami or what,
(18:05):
but anyway they found a signthat the hobbits were still with
the orcs, thanks to pippintrying to make a run for it.
Did this surprise you?
Jessica (18:14):
it did not surprise me, but I also took note of how
aragorn speaks.
So I did have some literaryumami pulled out from this
chapter and they were allairborn quotes so at one point
in the track Gimli is grouchingbecause he says he wishes he had
the great light that Galadrielhad gifted to Frodo.
So Aragorn says it will be moreneeded where it is bestowed
(18:38):
with him lies the true quest.
Ours is but a small matter inthe great deeds of time.
So again had a moment where Iwas like nobody talks like this
anymore and it's just incredible, even just reading it in my own
internal dialogue.
And then a couple of otherbeats again from this chapter.
There was a silence that didnot seem to be the quiet of
(19:01):
peace and another quote thatsaid weariness that is in the
heart more than in the limb.
So just you know, right backinto it going.
Kritter (19:11):
yeah, this guy can write oh, oh, the writing's so
good.
Um, so yeah, this trek soundshorrible.
But uh, gimley decides he wantsto take a break at nighttime.
Legolas, the cross-countryrunner, wants to keep going
without any breaks, and theyleave the choice up to aragorn,
who we've learned isn't the bestat making choices lately,
although he has been gettingbetter.
(19:32):
Aragorn ultimately sides withgimli, so I don't know if gimli
has ever been more relatable,and I don't know if I expected
aragorn to make the choice thathe did.
Do you have any thoughts aboutthis exchange?
Jessica (19:47):
I thought it was good because, Legolas I don't know if
you remember this I kind ofremember this moment from the
Fellowship where Aragorn hadsomewhat ceded control to
Gandalf and Gandalf made a calland Aragorn backed him up as his
number two going.
He's the one making the call,nobody better to lead us through
here and I felt like that roleshifted to Legolas in this that
(20:11):
they had a dialogue, the threeof them as peers.
Aragorn had a moment where he'ssecond guessing himself, saying
essentially nothing's goneright since argonath, so I'm not
sure how to make this call yeahlegolas gave his opinion.
Gimley gave his opinion.
Kritter (20:28):
Legolas said that he would respect the choice once
made, and he did yeah, yeah, Ifelt like legolas was a bit
hasty, like I mean, you know, Iget that an elf can keep going,
but you have to take intoaccount your companions and so,
yeah, I really felt for Gimli inthis exchange, but I
(20:49):
appreciated Legolas' willing tofollow whatever Aragorn decided.
I think I would have made thesame choice, but ultimately they
get to the point where theythink they've been left behind,
right.
They can't hear anything reallyin the ground.
But then Aragorn sees a blur inthe distance and Legolas sees
(21:10):
horsemen, spears glinting, andcounts them to the man,
identifying their leader as verytall.
So Aragorn sees a blur, legolassees everything in HD 4K, no
problem.
So it's times like these that Iremember that being an elf is
like pretty amazing, yeah,awesome.
Um, how are you feeling aboutthe chase before the horseman
(21:33):
showed up this pre-horsemanphase?
Jessica (21:37):
it sounds very discouraging.
It sounds very difficult andstrenuous and discouraging,
right, you know the idea of oneof them laying with their ear
pressed against the ground, justtrying to listen for anything
that the ground might tell them.
Also, I thought this chapterdid a really good job to your
(21:59):
point of highlighting the morearcane aspects of being an elf.
So there are some referencesthat are made or some
implications that I made, basedon things that were said in this
chapter, like, for example,elves don't need sleep the way
that men do, and that sometimesit's like they're sleeping
essentially with their eyes open.
Kritter (22:19):
Very D&D, honestly.
Jessica (22:20):
Very D&D, very D&D, honestly Very D&D.
Kritter (22:27):
So I thought that that was neat that those references
were in there.
Jessica (22:30):
I did feel like their track sounded crazy hard and as
we go on in the chapter and wemeet the riders, we find out
just how long of a track that is.
Kritter (22:43):
And that's insane.
Yeah, I have.
I have it in my outline.
We find out they covered 45leagues in four days, which I
looked up.
Jessica (22:51):
Uh and correct me if you looked it up and it was
wrong 135 miles, correct you gotleague is roughly three miles,
almost a 5k um, and so, yeah, Icame up with 135 miles.
Divided over four days isroughly 34 miles a day more than
america, so the normal human,yeah, a human, you know.
(23:12):
Foot speed is like three milesan hour.
That's 10 hours at a brisk walk, slash jog that's insane.
Kritter (23:22):
there's a lot of steps Way more than a 10,000 step day.
Jessica (23:26):
And again my heart goes out to Gimli.
So Aragorn has some geneticthings working in his favor.
Definitely Legolas.
Kritter (23:33):
Does you know, because of being an elf, Gimli and his
stubby little legs, I know thefortitude of dwarves Just mad
props one of my favorite linesfrom the movies is the uh I
think it goes something alongthe lines of dwarves are natural
born sprinters, very dangerousover short distances.
(23:55):
I say that all the time becauseI hate long distance running,
but I was a actual sprinter inhigh school in track, so you
know all districts, and four byone, let me tell you.
So I I say the same thing allthe time when people, when
people are like, oh, do you liketo run for your workouts?
And I'm like, just absolutelynot, but I am very dangerous,
(24:16):
yeah, I, uh.
It's one of my more repeatedlines.
At the very least, there are somany you know bangers in the
movies, but that one comes upall the time and, uh, it just
made me think of it, this wholesequence where gimli is just
struggling to keep up andmiserable.
Um, yeah, okay, so the peopleof rohan oh, we found diet
apparently come from the samestock as the men of dale and the
(24:38):
bjornings, rather than ofgondor.
Did that surprise you?
Jessica (24:42):
absolutely, it did, it did.
I highlighted it immediately.
I'm like Beornings I know whatthose are and the Bardings of
Dale I'm like holy smokes I knowwho these players are.
Kritter (24:52):
Yep, I had the same thing, where I knew that they
were different or they came fromsomewhere else or whatever, but
I had completely forgottenwhere and the fact that we're
fresh off the hobbit, more orless, and it's like the hobbit
people, people we've talkedabout in the hobbit, and that's
who they are uh it makes me feelbetter, though, because I
remember thinking that theyseemed very tall without context
(25:15):
in the movies, and now Iunderstand because the earnings
are tall.
Jessica (25:21):
You know, born was very big and I assume his offspring
also was.
Kritter (25:27):
Yeah, and they said the leaders of like Amor, like the
first.
One of the only descriptorsthat Legolas gave Before they
showed up Is that he was talland yeah, so they're just big
dudes, which is fun.
Jessica (25:38):
So I might be saying it wrong, because I've been saying
Amor.
Kritter (25:42):
Oh Well, I say Amor, saying it wrong because I've
been saying a amir.
Oh um, well, I say aomer.
I don't think it really mattersdeeply.
Um, you can follow your heart.
When it comes to pronunciations, I think we're pro whatever
pronunciation you want on.
But are there dragons?
Jessica (25:54):
I am a big fan of carl urban as amir, so same put that
out there to second your vibeyeah.
Kritter (26:02):
Yeah, he was my Lord of the Rings crush, Not gonna lie,
rightly so.
Okay, so the interaction withthe Horselords started pretty
tense until Aragorn pulled theI'm Legend card.
Do you think the trio handledthat whole exchange well?
Jessica (26:20):
I'm curious to see.
I had trouble picturing it, butI did love the fact that the
narrator made a point of sayinglegless and gimley were taken
aback to see aragorn behaving inthat manner uh-huh um, but I
kind of liked it.
I was like, oh, he's feelinghimself, okay, let's go with it.
Yeah, and it's the first timehe's actually given all of his
(26:43):
names.
Kritter (26:46):
It was very like I am Daenerys, mother of Dragons,
whatever, like Breaker of Chains, the whole sequence.
Jessica (26:54):
And this is.
Kritter (26:54):
Steve, and I am Gimli.
Just kidding Gimli, he's got alot of stuff too.
Jessica (27:01):
Yes, he does, gimli.
Kritter (27:02):
Just kidding Gimli.
He's got a lot of stuff too.
Yes, he does.
They were pretty mean aboutGimli.
I don't know, I have that later.
So we talked about the 45Leagues.
In 4 Days they have a nicelittle gossip session with the
men of Rohan after they decidethey're not going to kill him.
Did anything stand out to youfrom their chat, their catch up.
Jessica (27:27):
So it did seem like the riders from Rohan were very
dismissive of all the otherraces.
First off, the fact that theywere going to ride right by them
until they all hopped up.
You know, that jumped off thepage to me too, that Aragorn
basically had to call them out,otherwise they would have just
kept running by them.
Um, it did seem like they were,uh yeah, just really dismissive
(27:52):
of other races.
Uh and the uh, galadrielslander triggering gimli was
pretty hilarious.
Kritter (28:04):
Yeah.
So one of the writers protestedhim being lent a horse, which I
was like, excuse me, likeLegolas was fine but not Gimli.
But then Legolas, bless hisheart, solved the problem by
letting Gimli ride behind him.
So there was a note that Gimliwas about as comfortable riding
a horse as Sam was on a boat.
That was a good throw.
Gimli was about as comfortableriding a horse as sam was on a
boat.
That was a good throwback tothe fellowship.
(28:25):
Um, and then, yeah, gimlireminded the men of rohan
eventually that they had somelessons to learn about galadriel
so his being like superdefensive about her was uh was
kind of delightful.
Jessica (28:38):
So any the the men, ride off Any thoughts about them
before we continue so thispiece in particular gave me a
lot more insight into thecurrent landscape in Rohan right
now than I had from the movies,because I had no idea.
(28:58):
I have some preconceivednotions about what we'll expect
when we meet the king andeverything, obviously but, this
section gave a lot of insightonto how things are today in
rohan.
So, for example, havingstrangers cross their borders.
They have a very strong policyon that and, uh, you know,
that's why it was noted by hismen that you were lending these
(29:22):
strangers horses and notimmediately taking them to the
king for permission to bepresent in our borders.
Uh, so that I kind of feel likespeaks volumes to the political
landscape at play.
Um, another thing that I hadhere so he winds up, amir winds
up, sending the bulk of theriders away so that he could
(29:45):
have a private conversation, um,with a little bit more, um,
frankness, you know, have alittle bit of a more real
conversation.
Uh, and I thought that that wasgood.
We find out that gandalf's outof favor.
We find out that it's a liethat they are providing horses
(30:06):
to the dark army, which Iimmediately took note of, cause
I was like, okay, so the horsesis tribute is a lie.
But isn't it funny that, evenas a lie, it was just as
effective as if it had been true, because it's still so descent
in doubt.
So that really, you know, stoodout to me they were talking
(30:28):
about, and again, the horse girlin me right, like I'm a retired
horse girl.
The story about how the part ofa story, one side of a story,
about how Shadowfax and Gandalfcame to be in company together
and that, whatever went down,the king is not happy about.
Shadowfax seems to be aself-aware entity, so I assume
(30:52):
that Shadowfax goes whereShadowfax chooses and so
therefore wouldn't have gonewith Gandalf just because
Gandalf bid him so.
So I thought that was funny.
And then immediately after thatthey were talking about how the
dark armies are coming overtheir borders and stealing black
horses from mounts, and thatjust fired me up all over again.
(31:14):
It just got me really mad.
Biden words you don't stealhorses, bro.
Kritter (31:21):
I was so intrigued In New.
Jessica (31:22):
Hampshire.
You can still be hung forstealing horses oh, that's such
a fun fact.
Kritter (31:27):
That is a really fun fact.
Um, yeah, when I found out thatthe the horse thing was a lie
or at least aomer thinks thatthe horse thing is a lie, of
course, because I'm not gonnabelieve, you know, I don't
believe anybody.
I don't know who has the actualtruth, maybe, maybe not, amor I
found that fascinating Because,you know, whenever I heard that
they were doing that, I waslike, oh gasp, why would they do
(31:49):
that, you know?
And so now, maybe they didn't.
So that was good.
You gave a couple of yourfavorite lines from Aragorn
before I had written one down,so let me share it here.
There are some things it isbetter to begin than refuse.
Even though the end may be dark, we will not abandon our
friends so long as hope remains.
So I feel like aragorn's goneinto full motivational speaker
(32:13):
and philosopher mode in thisepisode generally, but like
especially in this chapter,which I loved.
I thought that was fabulous.
Jessica (32:21):
I don't know, big fan of him um yeah, there were some
parallels drawn between gandalfand sauraman that were a little
uncomfortable, um, and we knowthat that or I shouldn't say we
I took that, you know, with agrain of salt that that could be
coming from some poison seedson the inside, um, so I didn't
(32:44):
like that.
And then there was another oneI had to look up.
It's called Dwimmer craft date.
Okay, so I I had to look it upand Kendall didn't even know the
answer.
I had to Google it on a laptop.
Okay, and wait, let me.
Let me find it in context,please.
I was like I can't even believethis.
(33:05):
You can't make this stuff up.
Kritter (33:08):
Dwimmer crafty, dwimmer crafty, like dimmer, but with a
W added I don't even rememberhearing that word, but I look
forward to finding out itsdefinition.
Jessica (33:23):
Oh, don't even tell me, I didn't highlight it.
I know that I highlighted it.
Of course I can't find itultimately.
(33:54):
Dwimmer crafty was used todescribe saruman and I had to
look it up and really what itmeans is that it is synonymous
with illusion, arcane, magicdisguises Okay, which is in the
context clue of the sentence,but in the moment I was like
(34:18):
I've never heard Dwimmer ever inmy life heard Dwimmer ever in
my life.
Kritter (34:22):
That's a new one, that's a brand new one for me,
and it's not just a Tolkienism,it's like a word word.
Jessica (34:36):
I didn't keep going because it's always.
I try to bail as fast as I canwhen it comes to the Google
because I'm worried about thespoilers.
Totally fair, I've Dwimmer, I'mjust so I think that, like
there's a loader wiki andthere's an entry about it and I
just read, like glazed over,what came up on the google
search bar okay, yeah, sodwimmer is like dwimmer is a
(34:57):
middle english variant of theold english word dwimor, which
means illusion, so it's at leastsemi, not just from tolkien.
Kritter (35:07):
Yes, so yeah, fascinating whoa, oh my gosh,
okay, let's see um.
So they followed the trail orthey want to go see.
You know, ultimately, where theorcs met their end to see if
their friends are there.
And they end up camping at theon the edge of fangorn um.
(35:28):
And that night an old man showsup on the edge of the firelight
, right on the edge of theforest, but he vanished without
a word, and unfortunately thehorses bailed too.
So what do you think this wasall about?
Jessica (35:45):
Well, I don't know, but I will tell you that they are
camped out on the edge of yetanother grumpy forest.
Yeah, they've had anotherstranger danger sighting and
they have yet again lost theirmouths.
So I mean, that's literallywhat I wrote and the horses are
gone Again and that's how Iended my notes for that chapter.
(36:05):
So I mean, honestly, myinstinct is nothing good can
come of it, because pastexperience If you had to guess
who the old man was, who wouldyou guess?
So the old man was in awide-brimmed hat, which made me
again, again, kind of secondguess my assumptions.
(36:26):
So when I think wide brimmedhat, I think gandalf.
Um, and I was like I don't knowthat he's been described as
having a hat at any point so farin either the fellowship or to
this point so far in this book.
He is not.
So I was like again, am Iassuming based on decades of
(36:50):
imagery?
Kritter (36:52):
huh, but don't the um, am I making this up?
Don't one of them say, like Iwouldn't expect saruman to have
a hat like that.
Jessica (37:03):
Yes, yeah, okay, they had talked about saruman being
spotted, but he was a dark fig,dark hooded in a hood.
Yeah, that's right aragornclarifies he actually calls it
out and says, yes, we spotted anold man, but he wasn't hooded
he was wearing this hat yeah,but I got fixated on, you know,
(37:24):
the wide-brimmed hat piece, andam I just assuming based on
years and years of content?
Kritter (37:30):
yeah, I was over here like, oh my gosh, it's gandalf.
But then I was like why wouldhe have freed the horses?
Jessica (37:37):
um, I don't understand but yeah, and so they talk about
in the chapter that this forestis as old as the forest where,
uh, tom and goldberry live.
You know that.
It's got all this history.
So who's to say there isn't anentity associated with fangorn?
(37:57):
Just like there was, just likethere was tom old.
Kritter (38:00):
Old man Fangorn, yeah, maybe.
Jessica (38:04):
And he's grumpy too.
Kritter (38:06):
Yeah, well, fair, he has every right to be.
Okay, so end of the chapter.
Unless you've got more stuff,that's it for that chapter.
Okay, last chapter for thisepisode, book three, chapter
three, the Uruk-hai.
A little intimidating, so backbefore the party got fully
separated.
Separated, we're leaping backin time.
(38:26):
Mary and pippin ran willy-nillystraight into a group of orcs
while looking for frodo.
Mary managed to cut off somehands, but boromir ultimately
fought off the first group thatwas trying to grab the hobbits
before falling to the second.
So how appropriate that maryand pippin got captured because
they decided to do somethingsilly I mean it's pretty
appropriate.
Jessica (38:47):
Um, I will also say that the time the flashback
piece of this chapter caught meoff guard, I was like, oh, we're
back and I still just like Ihad to do a chapter one.
Go crap, where were they when weleft the fellowship?
Yeah, um.
So I had to do a little bit ofmental backpedaling there as
well, but I did think that itwas great that they noted that
mary had fought valiantly.
(39:08):
I do.
I do think that it's very onbrand that they did something
foolish and landed in a pot ofhot water, um.
But then that's immediatelyfollowed by pippin having a bit
of uh, negative self-reflection,saying I'm basically luggage,
(39:28):
and now I'm luggage that orcsare carrying.
And I was like oh, buddy, that'sa little harsh.
Kritter (39:34):
Was this the moment that he was like?
I wish they wouldn't have.
Jessica (39:36):
let me come along Like I wish all around would have
literally stopped me.
Yeah, I wish somebody hadtalked me out of this.
Uh, yeah, have literallystopped me.
Yeah, I wish somebody hadtalked me out of this.
Uh yeah, so that was, that wasrough, but again I feel like
it's very on brand for the marypippin duo I, I agree, but then
so the two weren't all silliness?
Kritter (39:55):
once we catch up to them ahead of the trio, pippin
ends up risking it all to leavea trail for any who might be
following.
But then, once again, hedespairs, thinking well, they're
probably just following Frodo,not him.
Do you have any thoughts aboutthe sequence?
Pippin risking it all?
Jessica (40:13):
I think that it goes to show Pippin's resourcefulness
honestly, like there's nothing.
I think that it's eminentlyrelatable to despair, but still
just keep trying.
Like I can relate, I think thatif I were in a similar
situation I would think the samething, because at least some of
us left going.
(40:34):
That quest is the imminentquest.
Like that quest is the priorityso I would also assume that
Frodo is the priority over me,but that doesn't mean that I'm
not going to try to keep comingup with ways to if there is
someone trailing us, hopefullyget us out of this mess.
Help us get out of this mess.
Kritter (40:54):
Right, yeah, I was proud of him, I was proud of
Pippin.
So we get a lot of orc talk inthis chapter for the first time,
I think, except for like thegoblins, I guess, and the hobbit
.
So I just want to say that AndySerkis nailed the audiobook
version like different voices,so guttural and unpleasant but
(41:15):
perfect.
How was your experience readingthe orcs?
Jessica (41:20):
It was challenging.
Kritter (41:22):
Really.
Jessica (41:23):
So they blended together a bit, kind of like
when I read the trolls honestlyuh-huh I will say, though, that
going out of chapter two intochapter three, you start hearing
that there's more than one kindof orc um, and so, trying to
catch on, I did go back andreread some of the different
things because, you know, tryingto keep track, orcs and goblins
(41:46):
aren't that different is myunderstanding.
Also, one of the few thingsthat I took away from my I'm not
going to participate in thelord of the rings movie.
Um fighting, that happened 20plus years ago was that there's
something about the way theuruk-hai are represented in the
movie that they're that bookfans don't appreciate, and I
(42:11):
believe that it's because, likesaruman, created them out of the
ground or whatever, but I'm notsure.
Oh, yeah so when I saw that wewere meeting the uruk and that
they have the, the white hand ofsaruman, like they are in fact
a creature of saruman um, I tooknote of that because I wanted
to see how they're different, um, possibly from the way that
(42:33):
they're depicted in the movies,yeah, but you know, you have um,
even in this chapter, they keepreferring to the eisenarders,
the Northerners, who are, youknow, essentially the goblins
that came out of the mines andstuff.
And then the other band which Inow have forgotten the name of,
but they come from like Lomborsor something like that.
Kritter (42:58):
Yeah, yeah, it's like Sauron's Orcs and Saruman's Orcs
, yeah, and they have differentorders.
Jessica (43:04):
It's like Sauron's orcs and Saruman's orcs, and they
have different orders.
Kritter (43:07):
It sounds like I can't hear you.
It might be on me One second.
Will you try one more time?
Okay, we try one more time.
(43:36):
One more time.
I'm going to switch now thespeaker.
(44:12):
Okay, will you try again?
Jessica (44:20):
what one more time.
Kritter (44:27):
What One more time?
I can't hear you.
I'm going to go get anotherheadphones because somehow I am
cursed.
Give me a bit.
Thank you.
(45:44):
I plugged these in to see ifmaybe that would help.
I'm not sure if I turned themon yet, so let me try again.
Talk, please, god damn it.
(46:07):
What the Um no-transcript Lawnto your butts.
(50:18):
Changing, changing?
They're not showing up as anoption yet output device.
(50:56):
You're not showing up as anoutput device.
Airpods throw Bluetooth.
Oh my god, I'm gonna lose mymind.
Garrett seems to think that.
(51:37):
Do I have the speaker set tothe right thing in Riverside?
That's what I was checking.
It's not even showing up theAirPods.
So no, I got it here,appreciate it.
I'm going to try and go back tothe original ones, but they're
(51:58):
plugged in, so maybe Okay.
(52:30):
I'm not logged in, so maybeOkay.
There's two versions of theseblack sharks, so I'm just going
to try one.
Will you try?
Jessica (52:37):
talking.
Kritter (52:44):
Let me change.
Make sure my output device isselected.
It is.
Jessica (52:51):
Can I test this?
Kritter (52:57):
No, why is this happening?
I feel like I have somewhere inmy house just like stupid, like
old iPad, ipod headphones, likethat's.
All I need is headphones thatwill plug in.
I'm gonna try one more time.
(53:19):
Try one more time.
Okay, try to talk.
No, alright, I'm gonna findthose stupid.
I'm gonna find some headphones.
I'll be back, thank you, thankyou, will you talk for me?
(55:41):
Okay, that doesn't make anysense.
Let me pull up YouTube and,well, hold on, let me turn this
(56:08):
on.
I'm going to turn on YouTube tosee if it'll play.
Okay, it's working on YouTube.
So what the fuck?
I can't hear you.
But I appreciate you trying totalk.
Try again.
Nope, try again why it workedon YouTube.
(56:29):
Um, let me open my volume mixerHeadphones.
Yes, um, shoot.
Should we stop the recordingand then I leave and I come back
and then we finish therecording?
Okay, I'm sorry, look at how Ilook like an airline pilot or
(56:52):
like a telemarketer.
Okay?
Welcome to, but Are there Dragons?
A podcast where two friendspick a book at least one of them
has not read and work their waythrough it a few chapters at a
time.
I'm your host, Kritter, and I'myour host Jess, and we're
continuing this adventure withthe Two Towers by JRR Tolkien,
with me as the resident Lord ofthe Rings veteran.
Jessica (00:23):
And me as the Lord of the Rings, first timer In this
our first regular season episodeof season three.
Kritter (00:31):
We're going to discuss book three, chapters one through
three.
It's a lot of threes.
Keep up Before we dive in.
Jessica, what is new with you?
How are you feeling?
Jessica (00:41):
I'm good.
I'm fresh off of JordanCon itfeels like still but was really
excited to get back into thisbook.
The night we got home I startedmy reading assignment and it's
good to kind of get back in thegroove with Tolkien.
Kritter (00:56):
It was a little alarming.
Jessica (00:58):
Chapter one I was like who am I?
Do I go here?
Who's doing what to who?
But I'm happy to be back in theswing.
How about you?
Kritter (01:07):
Feeling good, so I started this read.
It was on the plane toJordanCon, actually, and so it
was the first time that I waslistening and kind of like
working on the outline at thesame time instead of going back
through after.
I listened to the whole thingand it was.
I feel like it was prettyefficient, and if you could be
one three, you whole thing.
And it was.
I feel like it was prettyefficient, and if you could be
one three, you should beefficient.
But no, I really enjoyed thesefirst two chapters.
(01:30):
It was nice to get back into it.
I did take a little breather,read a couple of books in our
hiatus in the interim, and soit's good to be back to Tolkien,
for sure.
I think we talked about this alittle, but you read a couple of
books as well, correct?
During the interim.
Jessica (01:47):
I did so.
There is a an author that Ibecame familiar with through
Brandon Sanderson named DarciCole, and she does some YA
gender bender fairy taleretellings.
And I backed her Kickstarterand I mass consumed the first
two books of the Unbroken Talestrilogy because the Kickstarter
(02:10):
was backing her third book,which is coming very soon, and
they were.
They were so much fun.
It was my first time jumpinginto YA official YA, not
miscategorized YA uh-huh, uh-huhand uh, it was really enjoyable
.
It was very nice and light itwas.
(02:32):
There were still definitelyserious themes.
Um, it was.
It was just a really goodpalette cleanser for sure, not
to mention fun content all onits own, yeah nice.
Kritter (02:45):
I read ledge by stacy mcguin um, I think that's what
you pronounce, I'm not sure.
Uh, the color, the covers arebeautiful, but the reason I
picked up the book in the firstplace is because we're mutuals
on tiktok and she is hilarious.
She's got this series where shejust like training your fantasy
husband and it's so funny.
Um, the book is, it's, it's uh,oh, it's kind of hard to
(03:08):
describe.
It is a romantic scene, let'sput it that way, and it was a
fun little romp.
It was much lighter and easierto read than the lord of the
rings, and so the palettecleanser factor was definitely
there.
And then I also reread yumi andthe nightmare painter to prep
prep by Brandon Sanderson, toprep for my Yumi and the
Nightmare Painter panel atJordan Kahn, which I think went
really well.
(03:29):
So it was a fun reread.
It was my first reread, so nowI've read it twice.
I maintain that the book issuper fun and cute and Brandon
Sanderson's at least tied forhis best romance and and yeah,
so it was nice to revisit thatin the interim.
But I, as I said, very happy tobe back to talking.
So you want to dive in, let'sdo it, okay.
(03:52):
So I don't know if this was thecase for you, but in the
audiobook the there was anepigraph um, and we got the one
ring to rule them all poem thing.
Did you have that, or was thatjust the audiobook?
Jessica (04:06):
was it?
Do you mean between book twoand book three?
Did I get that?
Kritter (04:11):
I guess you're asking me, I guess, the audiobook for
the two towers?
The very first thing that wasread to me was the epigraph, and
it was the one ring to rulethem all.
I did not get that okay, well,never mind immediately.
Jessica (04:24):
So I have the trilogy as one compilation file on my
kindle and there's the end ofbook two.
Uh, second part of lord of therings of two towers, marked as
book three, immediately startswith chapter one, the departure
of boromir okay.
Kritter (04:41):
Well, there's a little deviation I think I was cheated.
Well, I don't know, becausepart of me was like I feel like
that has happened.
We've heard that in the bookalready.
Like, didn't we?
Because isn't that what'sinscribed on the ring?
Jessica (04:54):
um, yes, so when gandalf had thrown it in the
fire.
I think we had heard thatcontent at that point right.
Kritter (05:02):
So I was trying to remember like I feel, like this
isn't new, I don't.
I don't think it would have forthe first time showed up in the
epigraph of the two towers and,uh, turns out I was right.
So okay, um, it was nice tohear.
Obviously, the tolkien has somebeautiful verse, but that was
not something you were privy to.
So let's dive right in then tobook three, chapter one, the
(05:25):
departure ofomir.
So, given that chapter title,we knew what was coming.
What I wasn't prepared for washow different it was from the
movies.
How are you feeling aboutBoromir's end?
Jessica (05:44):
um I I don't know that I've had, I don't know that how
many books I've read like in aseries.
So there aren't that manyseries reads that I've done
really.
Um, middle books and trilogiesare are tough for a lot of
reasons in my, in my limitedexperience.
So starting off on such a veryaction-packed sequence was a
(06:04):
little disjointed um the ways inwhich it was different.
I felt that the emotion wasbigger here.
I felt that aragorn's um thisuh desolation at boromir's death
, um his he continued to do someemotional hand-wringing because
(06:28):
of boromir's death and uh tookon a little bit more.
I feel not necessarily that hetook on fault, but like he
really uh took took this as ablow.
I guess it was a really bigdeal that Boromir died.
He was very aggrieved by it.
(06:49):
It seemed like he took at leastpartial responsibility because
of lack of decision-making.
I don't know.
I had a little bit of a hardtime with Aragorn's response to
Boromir's death, the fact thathe is the heir of Denethor, an
identified hero in his own right, all of that you know, peer to
peer I can understand.
(07:09):
He just seemed very emotionalcompared to how, I mean it was.
I guess it was emotional in themovies.
It felt more, I guess, on thepage.
Kritter (07:20):
Yeah, I feel like the death scene in itself, or at
least whenever they discoveredhim and Aragorn had that moment
with Boromir before Boromir.
In a lot of ways the moviedialogue did where the books
really didn't.
And I know that we were I was,I at least was a major boromir
(07:52):
hater.
Last book and this didn'treally redeem him for me.
Like even in it, with his dyingbreath, he was like you should
go to, I'm just like bro, biggerpicture.
Jessica (08:03):
Oh my god so I had a couple of feelings about that
one.
I can't remember what was saidin the death scene because it's
been that much, it's been longenough that, like I can't really
remember okay, I rememberaragorn being there.
Um, to your point about him notnecessarily redeeming himself,
he did confess you know a little.
Kritter (08:26):
Yeah, he did.
Jessica (08:27):
No, the confession was a point in his favor um, I feel
like you're entitled to youropinion, no matter what I say.
I feel like the last call tominister was still just to point
out that this is him at hiscore, right.
Like he is a faithful servant ofhis people till the end, and
(08:51):
that was how I took that, notthat that has to change or
impact how you took it.
Like, yeah, I had just a littlebit of a problem with the, with
aragorn's reaction in the book,but at the same time I liked
(09:12):
that it did feel more emotionaland relevant to him than it did
in the movie.
Kritter (09:16):
So yeah, do with that what you will yeah, I do think
that, like now that we've movedfrom the death, I think the
funeral scene was justbeautifully written.
Jessica (09:27):
Like absolutely.
Kritter (09:28):
There was literary umami dripping off the page in
that scene.
I didn't write any down becauseI was on the plane and whatever
, but like damn, I don't know,that gave me chills and they
came up with a song, just likeon the spot, about Boromir and
all of his deeds.
And then, of course, ghiblididn't.
He's, like you guys, left thebad verse to me, so I'm not
(09:48):
going to take that on.
Jessica (09:52):
Yeah, it was.
Just it was very iconic.
That's what I had written.
That it was incredibly and youknow to your point the literary
umami right, the callbacks to,you know, in the history of
Minas Tirith going forward, the.
In the history of Minas Tirithgoing forward, the long boat
will always be remembered.
So it was.
I thought that it was verybeautifully written.
I do feel like it wasrepresented in the movie, from
what I remember.
Kritter (10:13):
Yeah, no, I think the movie was maybe the his.
The funeral scene was moreabbreviated in the movie for
sure.
So like I guess I would givethe death scene in the movie was
better, cause like well, wealso, well, we actually, we read
about it later, but like thedeath scene in the movie was
better, the funeral scene in thebook was better in my opinion
that's where I'm at yeah, okay,so let's see two roads diverged
(10:39):
before Aragorn Gimli and Legolas, and notably Minas Tirith was
not one of them.
How do you feel about Aragorn'sGimli and Legolas, and notably
Minas Tirith, was not one ofthem.
How do you feel about Aragorn'schoice to follow the captured
hobbits instead of the ringbearer?
Jessica (10:53):
I was happy because he made a choice.
He's been paralyzed.
Yeah, a little bit of thedecision.
Paralysis has been a littledifficult for me and I did the
language that he had in there.
I thought Tolkien had a nicejob.
You know I don't think I have apart to play anymore in the
ring bearer's quest.
You know, I think that I didtake note, though he did say
(11:17):
would have gone with him untilthe end.
There is a line in there thatdoes in fact say it, so I
thought that jumped off the pageat me.
I did like the fact that heacknowledged that made a choice
and was decisive.
I also only at that moment,though again because I'm such a
(11:38):
passive reader was like oh right, they don't actually know where
anybody is.
This is the Scoobyoby-doomystery of it all, and I have to
uh stow what I know and seewhat they learn on the way to
try and figure out what happenedto all the hobbitses I feel
kind of like a hypocrite, but Iam a thousand percent willing to
(12:01):
forgive aragorn for giving upon frodo and going to follow
Merry and Pippin would have.
Kritter (12:07):
Boromir would have made that decision.
I'd be like Boromir, focus onthe task at hand, it's all about
the ring.
Jessica (12:13):
my dude Boromir would have chosen Minas Tirith and not
Merry and Pippin.
Kritter (12:18):
Yeah, they wouldn't have even been in the picture.
It would have been all aboutMinas Tirith.
I agree, and so, yes, I justwanted to acknowledge decision
stance no, I'm happy with this.
I think aragorn made the rightchoice.
You know, it's one of thoselike no hobbit left behind
situation.
I think it was the more ethicalchoice, especially because it
didn't take away any agency fromfrodo who had clearly
(12:39):
deliberately left them for areason, and aragorn kind of read
the tea leaves like okay, thisis possibly just how it's
supposed to be, um, andthankfully sam is with him, so
at least there's that, um, okay,so this chapter was pretty
short, but pretty important.
Do you have any final thoughtsbefore we move on?
Jessica (13:01):
just I don't, um, I don't remember ever reading like
a middle child book that startswith such an iconic death.
Um, so it was quite a way tojump back into it.
I think that's probably mybiggest vibe from chapter one
yeah, chapter one was a major.
Kritter (13:17):
This was meant to be one book flag like sign signpost
.
Jessica (13:22):
Yeah, now I have to go back in the discord and see all
the comments made about thetransition from from the
fellowship to the two towers.
Now I can go back and readthose.
Kritter (13:32):
Yeah, it's kind of rough because, like, I think
there was a little bit of like,oh, fellowship ended up like,
with a little bit of a whimperand then, right at the beginning
of two, two towers, it's, youknow starts with a bang.
So there's, uh, yeah, it's,it's just, you know, you, you
got to think of it as one story,I think, and then all of your
complaints go away, all of them.
There aren't any left.
I think you're probably right.
Okay, so book three, chaptertwo, the writers of rohan.
(13:59):
Um, now I'm, uh, from the moviesI'm a bit of an, a of more
girly.
Like, growing up he was the guyI had a crush on.
It wasn't legolas, it wasn'taragorn, it was aomer.
So I was.
When I saw this chapter heading, I was like let's go.
So, anyways, let's uh, theytravel day and night by, they I
mean legolas, gimley and aragornacross terrain.
(14:20):
That sounds absolutely gorgeous.
Um, aragorn looks longingly togondor and legolas notices an
eagle far away, perhaps the sameeagle aragorn spotted last
chapter while he sat on the seatat the top of the hill.
Any guesses what this eagle isup to?
Or stand out moments from thisearly part of the chase?
Jessica (14:39):
my very first bullet is there's an eagle super high up
uh-huh throwaway comment supersus.
That was my very first commenton this chapter um I don't.
I don't know what the eagles dobecause they have autonomy.
So it turns out they do thingsfor for no apparent reason and I
I'll find out later.
Um, so I'm not 100 sure what tothink, because the eagles are
(15:00):
intelligent and have autonomyand do all kinds of stuff yeah,
part of me was like, okay, sorry, just keep going.
Kritter (15:07):
Keep that thought.
But, like with the eagle, Ithought, okay, they've seen the
fell beast before, right, theyencountered a fell beast, so
surely they wouldn't like, misslike, or they they wouldn't call
it an eagle if there was achance that it wasn't an eagle.
And then, and then that made mewonder, like, what the hell are
these eagles up to?
I guess they're just keepingtabs, that's all I can guess.
Jessica (15:26):
So, and keep going, well, and then I was going to
make the comment.
You had mentioned the geographythat they're trekking through
um and so this is our firstsession.
back after a little bit of ahiatus, and I was reminded that
I don't know as many words as Ithink I know.
So in this chapter I waslooking up meads and fens and
(15:50):
reed and wools, All of thesewords where I'm like I think
that I'm a fairly well readindividual.
And then we jump back in and Iget my reminder that I know
nothing.
Kritter (16:01):
You know that's good of you, though, because, like all
several of those words youmentioned, I don't know what
they're actually, what theyactually are in my brain.
Jessica (16:10):
They are landscape they are they are in fact landscape,
and and that's um but I thinkthat's a little bit of the I I
need to know thing.
It's a little ridiculous, it'sit's a little ridiculous.
Kritter (16:23):
You're learning things.
I didn't look it up, so Ididn't learn anything.
Jessica (16:26):
So meads is just another word for meadows, turns
out that makes sense.
Fens are like moors or marshes.
Okay, wouldn't have guessed,all right.
And I had to look up, read, andnow I can't remember.
But it's like getting a read ona joint, getting a read on a
place, like getting a beat on aplace.
(16:47):
I have it highlighted and I cansend it to you, but it was just
.
It stood out for me again,because I'm reading and not
doing audio.
It's spelled differently.
It's R E D E.
Kritter (17:00):
Oh, okay.
Jessica (17:01):
When I heard reads, I probably just assumed, like
greenery, you know.
Yeah, no, it's r-e-d-e whichstood out to me, and same with
walt, w-o-l-d, um, which is likebasically a high place.
So I, I mean, I did take thetime to look them all up, but
well done it's a little I'm like, oh so some humility to start.
Kritter (17:24):
Book two got it got it, got it, got it, okay.
So, um, we have not.
Well, a little ways into thetrek, they discover a brooch
right the lothlorian.
Uh, it was the bro they.
They called it the broach right.
I'm not making that up.
(17:45):
Okay, and Aragorn says Not idlydid the leaves of Lorien fall.
First reaction to that was man.
I wish people talked like that,Like in real life.
I don't know there's so manyinstances of that in these books
, but like that one inparticular was like Not idly did
the leaves, it just delightedme.
I don't know if you want tocall it literary umami or what,
(18:05):
but anyway they found a signthat the hobbits were still with
the orcs, thanks to pippintrying to make a run for it.
Did this surprise you?
Jessica (18:14):
it did not surprise me, but I also took note of how
aragorn speaks.
So I did have some literaryumami pulled out from this
chapter and they were allairborn quotes so at one point
in the track Gimli is grouchingbecause he says he wishes he had
the great light that Galadrielhad gifted to Frodo.
So Aragorn says it will be moreneeded where it is bestowed
(18:38):
with him lies the true quest.
Ours is but a small matter inthe great deeds of time.
So again had a moment where Iwas like nobody talks like this
anymore and it's just incredible, even just reading it in my own
internal dialogue.
And then a couple of otherbeats again from this chapter.
There was a silence that didnot seem to be the quiet of
(19:01):
peace and another quote thatsaid weariness that is in the
heart more than in the limb.
So just you know, right backinto it going.
Kritter (19:11):
yeah, this guy can write oh, oh, the writing's so
good.
Um, so yeah, this trek soundshorrible.
But uh, gimley decides he wantsto take a break at nighttime.
Legolas, the cross-countryrunner, wants to keep going
without any breaks, and theyleave the choice up to aragorn,
who we've learned isn't the bestat making choices lately,
although he has been gettingbetter.
(19:32):
Aragorn ultimately sides withgimli, so I don't know if gimli
has ever been more relatable,and I don't know if I expected
aragorn to make the choice thathe did.
Do you have any thoughts aboutthis exchange?
Jessica (19:47):
I thought it was good because, Legolas I don't know if
you remember this I kind ofremember this moment from the
Fellowship where Aragorn hadsomewhat ceded control to
Gandalf and Gandalf made a calland Aragorn backed him up as his
number two going.
He's the one making the call,nobody better to lead us through
here and I felt like that roleshifted to Legolas in this that
(20:11):
they had a dialogue, the threeof them as peers.
Aragorn had a moment where he'ssecond guessing himself, saying
essentially nothing's goneright since argonath, so I'm not
sure how to make this call yeahlegolas gave his opinion.
Gimley gave his opinion.
Kritter (20:28):
Legolas said that he would respect the choice once
made, and he did yeah, yeah, Ifelt like legolas was a bit
hasty, like I mean, you know, Iget that an elf can keep going,
but you have to take intoaccount your companions and so,
yeah, I really felt for Gimli inthis exchange, but I
(20:49):
appreciated Legolas' willing tofollow whatever Aragorn decided.
I think I would have made thesame choice, but ultimately they
get to the point where theythink they've been left behind,
right.
They can't hear anything reallyin the ground.
But then Aragorn sees a blur inthe distance and Legolas sees
(21:10):
horsemen, spears glinting, andcounts them to the man,
identifying their leader as verytall.
So Aragorn sees a blur, legolassees everything in HD 4K, no
problem.
So it's times like these that Iremember that being an elf is
like pretty amazing, yeah,awesome.
Um, how are you feeling aboutthe chase before the horseman
(21:33):
showed up this pre-horsemanphase?
Jessica (21:37):
it sounds very discouraging.
It sounds very difficult andstrenuous and discouraging,
right, you know the idea of oneof them laying with their ear
pressed against the ground, justtrying to listen for anything
that the ground might tell them.
Also, I thought this chapterdid a really good job to your
(21:59):
point of highlighting the morearcane aspects of being an elf.
So there are some referencesthat are made or some
implications that I made, basedon things that were said in this
chapter, like, for example,elves don't need sleep the way
that men do, and that sometimesit's like they're sleeping
essentially with their eyes open.
Kritter (22:19):
Very D&D, honestly.
Jessica (22:20):
Very D&D, very D&D, honestly Very D&D.
Kritter (22:27):
So I thought that that was neat that those references
were in there.
Jessica (22:30):
I did feel like their track sounded crazy hard and as
we go on in the chapter and wemeet the riders, we find out
just how long of a track that is.
Kritter (22:43):
And that's insane.
Yeah, I have.
I have it in my outline.
We find out they covered 45leagues in four days, which I
looked up.
Jessica (22:51):
Uh and correct me if you looked it up and it was
wrong 135 miles, correct you gotleague is roughly three miles,
almost a 5k um, and so, yeah, Icame up with 135 miles.
Divided over four days isroughly 34 miles a day more than
america, so the normal human,yeah, a human, you know.
(23:12):
Foot speed is like three milesan hour.
That's 10 hours at a brisk walk, slash jog that's insane.
Kritter (23:22):
there's a lot of steps Way more than a 10,000 step day.
Jessica (23:26):
And again my heart goes out to Gimli.
So Aragorn has some geneticthings working in his favor.
Definitely Legolas.
Kritter (23:33):
Does you know, because of being an elf, Gimli and his
stubby little legs, I know thefortitude of dwarves Just mad
props one of my favorite linesfrom the movies is the uh I
think it goes something alongthe lines of dwarves are natural
born sprinters, very dangerousover short distances.
(23:55):
I say that all the time becauseI hate long distance running,
but I was a actual sprinter inhigh school in track, so you
know all districts, and four byone, let me tell you.
So I I say the same thing allthe time when people, when
people are like, oh, do you liketo run for your workouts?
And I'm like, just absolutelynot, but I am very dangerous,
(24:16):
yeah, I, uh.
It's one of my more repeatedlines.
At the very least, there are somany you know bangers in the
movies, but that one comes upall the time and, uh, it just
made me think of it, this wholesequence where gimli is just
struggling to keep up andmiserable.
Um, yeah, okay, so the peopleof rohan oh, we found diet
apparently come from the samestock as the men of dale and the
(24:38):
bjornings, rather than ofgondor.
Did that surprise you?
Jessica (24:42):
absolutely, it did, it did.
I highlighted it immediately.
I'm like Beornings I know whatthose are and the Bardings of
Dale I'm like holy smokes I knowwho these players are.
Kritter (24:52):
Yep, I had the same thing, where I knew that they
were different or they came fromsomewhere else or whatever, but
I had completely forgottenwhere and the fact that we're
fresh off the hobbit, more orless, and it's like the hobbit
people, people we've talkedabout in the hobbit, and that's
who they are uh it makes me feelbetter, though, because I
remember thinking that theyseemed very tall without context
(25:15):
in the movies, and now Iunderstand because the earnings
are tall.
Jessica (25:21):
You know, born was very big and I assume his offspring
also was.
Kritter (25:27):
Yeah, and they said the leaders of like Amor, like the
first.
One of the only descriptorsthat Legolas gave Before they
showed up Is that he was talland yeah, so they're just big
dudes, which is fun.
Jessica (25:38):
So I might be saying it wrong, because I've been saying
Amor.
Kritter (25:42):
Oh Well, I say Amor, saying it wrong because I've
been saying a amir.
Oh um, well, I say aomer.
I don't think it really mattersdeeply.
Um, you can follow your heart.
When it comes to pronunciations, I think we're pro whatever
pronunciation you want on.
But are there dragons?
Jessica (25:54):
I am a big fan of carl urban as amir, so same put that
out there to second your vibeyeah.
Kritter (26:02):
Yeah, he was my Lord of the Rings crush, Not gonna lie,
rightly so.
Okay, so the interaction withthe Horselords started pretty
tense until Aragorn pulled theI'm Legend card.
Do you think the trio handledthat whole exchange well?
Jessica (26:20):
I'm curious to see.
I had trouble picturing it, butI did love the fact that the
narrator made a point of sayinglegless and gimley were taken
aback to see aragorn behaving inthat manner uh-huh um, but I
kind of liked it.
I was like, oh, he's feelinghimself, okay, let's go with it.
Yeah, and it's the first timehe's actually given all of his
(26:43):
names.
Kritter (26:46):
It was very like I am Daenerys, mother of Dragons,
whatever, like Breaker of Chains, the whole sequence.
Jessica (26:54):
And this is.
Kritter (26:54):
Steve, and I am Gimli.
Just kidding Gimli, he's got alot of stuff too.
Jessica (27:01):
Yes, he does, gimli.
Kritter (27:02):
Just kidding Gimli.
He's got a lot of stuff too.
Yes, he does.
They were pretty mean aboutGimli.
I don't know, I have that later.
So we talked about the 45Leagues.
In 4 Days they have a nicelittle gossip session with the
men of Rohan after they decidethey're not going to kill him.
Did anything stand out to youfrom their chat, their catch up.
Jessica (27:27):
So it did seem like the riders from Rohan were very
dismissive of all the otherraces.
First off, the fact that theywere going to ride right by them
until they all hopped up.
You know, that jumped off thepage to me too, that Aragorn
basically had to call them out,otherwise they would have just
kept running by them.
Um, it did seem like they were,uh yeah, just really dismissive
(27:52):
of other races.
Uh and the uh, galadrielslander triggering gimli was
pretty hilarious.
Kritter (28:04):
Yeah.
So one of the writers protestedhim being lent a horse, which I
was like, excuse me, likeLegolas was fine but not Gimli.
But then Legolas, bless hisheart, solved the problem by
letting Gimli ride behind him.
So there was a note that Gimliwas about as comfortable riding
a horse as Sam was on a boat.
That was a good throw.
Gimli was about as comfortableriding a horse as sam was on a
boat.
That was a good throwback tothe fellowship.
(28:25):
Um, and then, yeah, gimlireminded the men of rohan
eventually that they had somelessons to learn about galadriel
so his being like superdefensive about her was uh was
kind of delightful.
Jessica (28:38):
So any the the men, ride off Any thoughts about them
before we continue so thispiece in particular gave me a
lot more insight into thecurrent landscape in Rohan right
now than I had from the movies,because I had no idea.
(28:58):
I have some preconceivednotions about what we'll expect
when we meet the king andeverything, obviously but, this
section gave a lot of insightonto how things are today in
rohan.
So, for example, havingstrangers cross their borders.
They have a very strong policyon that and, uh, you know,
that's why it was noted by hismen that you were lending these
(29:22):
strangers horses and notimmediately taking them to the
king for permission to bepresent in our borders.
Uh, so that I kind of feel likespeaks volumes to the political
landscape at play.
Um, another thing that I hadhere so he winds up, amir winds
up, sending the bulk of theriders away so that he could
(29:45):
have a private conversation, um,with a little bit more, um,
frankness, you know, have alittle bit of a more real
conversation.
Uh, and I thought that that wasgood.
We find out that gandalf's outof favor.
We find out that it's a liethat they are providing horses
(30:06):
to the dark army, which Iimmediately took note of, cause
I was like, okay, so the horsesis tribute is a lie.
But isn't it funny that, evenas a lie, it was just as
effective as if it had been true, because it's still so descent
in doubt.
So that really, you know, stoodout to me they were talking
(30:28):
about, and again, the horse girlin me right, like I'm a retired
horse girl.
The story about how the part ofa story, one side of a story,
about how Shadowfax and Gandalfcame to be in company together
and that, whatever went down,the king is not happy about.
Shadowfax seems to be aself-aware entity, so I assume
(30:52):
that Shadowfax goes whereShadowfax chooses and so
therefore wouldn't have gonewith Gandalf just because
Gandalf bid him so.
So I thought that was funny.
And then immediately after thatthey were talking about how the
dark armies are coming overtheir borders and stealing black
horses from mounts, and thatjust fired me up all over again.
(31:14):
It just got me really mad.
Biden words you don't stealhorses, bro.
Kritter (31:21):
I was so intrigued In New.
Jessica (31:22):
Hampshire.
You can still be hung forstealing horses oh, that's such
a fun fact.
Kritter (31:27):
That is a really fun fact.
Um, yeah, when I found out thatthe the horse thing was a lie
or at least aomer thinks thatthe horse thing is a lie, of
course, because I'm not gonnabelieve, you know, I don't
believe anybody.
I don't know who has the actualtruth, maybe, maybe not, amor I
found that fascinating Because,you know, whenever I heard that
they were doing that, I waslike, oh gasp, why would they do
(31:49):
that, you know?
And so now, maybe they didn't.
So that was good.
You gave a couple of yourfavorite lines from Aragorn
before I had written one down,so let me share it here.
There are some things it isbetter to begin than refuse.
Even though the end may be dark, we will not abandon our
friends so long as hope remains.
So I feel like aragorn's goneinto full motivational speaker
(32:13):
and philosopher mode in thisepisode generally, but like
especially in this chapter,which I loved.
I thought that was fabulous.
Jessica (32:21):
I don't know, big fan of him um yeah, there were some
parallels drawn between gandalfand sauraman that were a little
uncomfortable, um, and we knowthat that or I shouldn't say we
I took that, you know, with agrain of salt that that could be
coming from some poison seedson the inside, um, so I didn't
(32:44):
like that.
And then there was another oneI had to look up.
It's called Dwimmer craft date.
Okay, so I I had to look it upand Kendall didn't even know the
answer.
I had to Google it on a laptop.
Okay, and wait, let me.
Let me find it in context,please.
I was like I can't even believethis.
(33:05):
You can't make this stuff up.
Kritter (33:08):
Dwimmer crafty, dwimmer crafty, like dimmer, but with a
W added I don't even rememberhearing that word, but I look
forward to finding out itsdefinition.
Jessica (33:23):
Oh, don't even tell me, I didn't highlight it.
I know that I highlighted it.
Of course I can't find itultimately.
(33:54):
Dwimmer crafty was used todescribe saruman and I had to
look it up and really what itmeans is that it is synonymous
with illusion, arcane, magicdisguises Okay, which is in the
context clue of the sentence,but in the moment I was like
(34:18):
I've never heard Dwimmer ever inmy life heard Dwimmer ever in
my life.
Kritter (34:22):
That's a new one, that's a brand new one for me,
and it's not just a Tolkienism,it's like a word word.
Jessica (34:36):
I didn't keep going because it's always.
I try to bail as fast as I canwhen it comes to the Google
because I'm worried about thespoilers.
Totally fair, I've Dwimmer, I'mjust so I think that, like
there's a loader wiki andthere's an entry about it and I
just read, like glazed over,what came up on the google
search bar okay, yeah, sodwimmer is like dwimmer is a
(34:57):
middle english variant of theold english word dwimor, which
means illusion, so it's at leastsemi, not just from tolkien.
Kritter (35:07):
Yes, so yeah, fascinating whoa, oh my gosh,
okay, let's see um.
So they followed the trail orthey want to go see.
You know, ultimately, where theorcs met their end to see if
their friends are there.
And they end up camping at theon the edge of fangorn um.
(35:28):
And that night an old man showsup on the edge of the firelight
, right on the edge of theforest, but he vanished without
a word, and unfortunately thehorses bailed too.
So what do you think this wasall about?
Jessica (35:45):
Well, I don't know, but I will tell you that they are
camped out on the edge of yetanother grumpy forest.
Yeah, they've had anotherstranger danger sighting and
they have yet again lost theirmouths.
So I mean, that's literallywhat I wrote and the horses are
gone Again and that's how Iended my notes for that chapter.
(36:05):
So I mean, honestly, myinstinct is nothing good can
come of it, because pastexperience If you had to guess
who the old man was, who wouldyou guess?
So the old man was in awide-brimmed hat, which made me
again, again, kind of secondguess my assumptions.
(36:26):
So when I think wide brimmedhat, I think gandalf.
Um, and I was like I don't knowthat he's been described as
having a hat at any point so farin either the fellowship or to
this point so far in this book.
He is not.
So I was like again, am Iassuming based on decades of
(36:50):
imagery?
Kritter (36:52):
huh, but don't the um, am I making this up?
Don't one of them say, like Iwouldn't expect saruman to have
a hat like that.
Jessica (37:03):
Yes, yeah, okay, they had talked about saruman being
spotted, but he was a dark fig,dark hooded in a hood.
Yeah, that's right aragornclarifies he actually calls it
out and says, yes, we spotted anold man, but he wasn't hooded
he was wearing this hat yeah,but I got fixated on, you know,
(37:24):
the wide-brimmed hat piece, andam I just assuming based on
years and years of content?
Kritter (37:30):
yeah, I was over here like, oh my gosh, it's gandalf.
But then I was like why wouldhe have freed the horses?
Jessica (37:37):
um, I don't understand but yeah, and so they talk about
in the chapter that this forestis as old as the forest where,
uh, tom and goldberry live.
You know that.
It's got all this history.
So who's to say there isn't anentity associated with fangorn?
(37:57):
Just like there was, just likethere was tom old.
Kritter (38:00):
Old man Fangorn, yeah, maybe.
Jessica (38:04):
And he's grumpy too.
Kritter (38:06):
Yeah, well, fair, he has every right to be.
Okay, so end of the chapter.
Unless you've got more stuff,that's it for that chapter.
Okay, last chapter for thisepisode, book three, chapter
three, the Uruk-hai.
A little intimidating, so backbefore the party got fully
separated.
Separated, we're leaping backin time.
(38:26):
Mary and pippin ran willy-nillystraight into a group of orcs
while looking for frodo.
Mary managed to cut off somehands, but boromir ultimately
fought off the first group thatwas trying to grab the hobbits
before falling to the second.
So how appropriate that maryand pippin got captured because
they decided to do somethingsilly I mean it's pretty
appropriate.
Jessica (38:47):
Um, I will also say that the time the flashback
piece of this chapter caught meoff guard, I was like, oh, we're
back and I still just like Ihad to do a chapter one.
Go crap, where were they when weleft the fellowship?
Yeah, um.
So I had to do a little bit ofmental backpedaling there as
well, but I did think that itwas great that they noted that
mary had fought valiantly.
(39:08):
I do.
I do think that it's very onbrand that they did something
foolish and landed in a pot ofhot water, um.
But then that's immediatelyfollowed by pippin having a bit
of uh, negative self-reflection,saying I'm basically luggage,
(39:28):
and now I'm luggage that orcsare carrying.
And I was like oh, buddy, that'sa little harsh.
Kritter (39:34):
Was this the moment that he was like?
I wish they wouldn't have.
Jessica (39:36):
let me come along Like I wish all around would have
literally stopped me.
Yeah, I wish somebody hadtalked me out of this.
Uh, yeah, have literallystopped me.
Yeah, I wish somebody hadtalked me out of this.
Uh yeah, so that was, that wasrough, but again I feel like
it's very on brand for the marypippin duo I, I agree, but then
so the two weren't all silliness?
Kritter (39:55):
once we catch up to them ahead of the trio, pippin
ends up risking it all to leavea trail for any who might be
following.
But then, once again, hedespairs, thinking well, they're
probably just following Frodo,not him.
Do you have any thoughts aboutthe sequence?
Pippin risking it all?
Jessica (40:13):
I think that it goes to show Pippin's resourcefulness
honestly, like there's nothing.
I think that it's eminentlyrelatable to despair, but still
just keep trying.
Like I can relate, I think thatif I were in a similar
situation I would think the samething, because at least some of
us left going.
(40:34):
That quest is the imminentquest.
Like that quest is the priorityso I would also assume that
Frodo is the priority over me,but that doesn't mean that I'm
not going to try to keep comingup with ways to if there is
someone trailing us, hopefullyget us out of this mess.
Help us get out of this mess.
Kritter (40:54):
Right, yeah, I was proud of him, I was proud of
Pippin.
So we get a lot of orc talk inthis chapter for the first time,
I think, except for like thegoblins, I guess, and the hobbit
.
So I just want to say that AndySerkis nailed the audiobook
version like different voices,so guttural and unpleasant but
(41:15):
perfect.
How was your experience readingthe orcs?
Jessica (41:20):
It was challenging.
Kritter (41:22):
Really.
Jessica (41:23):
So they blended together a bit, kind of like
when I read the trolls honestlyuh-huh I will say, though, that
going out of chapter two intochapter three, you start hearing
that there's more than one kindof orc um, and so, trying to
catch on, I did go back andreread some of the different
things because, you know, tryingto keep track, orcs and goblins
(41:46):
aren't that different is myunderstanding.
Also, one of the few thingsthat I took away from my I'm not
going to participate in thelord of the rings movie.
Um fighting, that happened 20plus years ago was that there's
something about the way theuruk-hai are represented in the
movie that they're that bookfans don't appreciate, and I
(42:11):
believe that it's because, likesaruman, created them out of the
ground or whatever, but I'm notsure.
Oh, yeah so when I saw that wewere meeting the uruk and that
they have the, the white hand ofsaruman, like they are in fact
a creature of saruman um, I tooknote of that because I wanted
to see how they're different, um, possibly from the way that
(42:33):
they're depicted in the movies,yeah, but you know, you have um,
even in this chapter, they keepreferring to the eisenarders,
the Northerners, who are, youknow, essentially the goblins
that came out of the mines andstuff.
And then the other band which Inow have forgotten the name of,
but they come from like Lomborsor something like that.
Kritter (42:58):
Yeah, yeah, it's like Sauron's Orcs and Saruman's Orcs
, yeah, and they have differentorders.
Jessica (43:04):
It's like Sauron's orcs and Saruman's orcs, and they
have different orders.
Kritter (43:07):
It sounds like I can't hear you.
It might be on me One second.
Will you try one more time?
Okay, we try one more time.
(43:36):
One more time.
I'm going to switch now thespeaker.
(44:12):
Okay, will you try again?
Jessica (44:20):
what one more time.
Kritter (44:27):
What One more time?
I can't hear you.
I'm going to go get anotherheadphones because somehow I am
cursed.
Give me a bit.
Thank you.
(45:44):
I plugged these in to see ifmaybe that would help.
I'm not sure if I turned themon yet, so let me try again.
Talk, please, god damn it.
(46:07):
What the Um no-transcript Lawnto your butts.
(50:18):
Changing, changing?
They're not showing up as anoption yet output device.
(50:56):
You're not showing up as anoutput device.
Airpods throw Bluetooth.
Oh my god, I'm gonna lose mymind.
Garrett seems to think that.
(51:37):
Do I have the speaker set tothe right thing in Riverside?
That's what I was checking.
It's not even showing up theAirPods.
So no, I got it here,appreciate it.
I'm going to try and go back tothe original ones, but they're
(51:58):
plugged in, so maybe Okay.
(52:30):
I'm not logged in, so maybeOkay.
There's two versions of theseblack sharks, so I'm just going
to try one.
Will you try?
Jessica (52:37):
talking.
Kritter (52:44):
Let me change.
Make sure my output device isselected.
It is.
Jessica (52:51):
Can I test this?
Kritter (52:57):
No, why is this happening?
I feel like I have somewhere inmy house just like stupid, like
old iPad, ipod headphones, likethat's.
All I need is headphones thatwill plug in.
I'm gonna try one more time.
(53:19):
Try one more time.
Okay, try to talk.
No, alright, I'm gonna findthose stupid.
I'm gonna find some headphones.
I'll be back, thank you, thankyou, will you talk for me?
(55:41):
Okay, that doesn't make anysense.
Let me pull up YouTube and,well, hold on, let me turn this
(56:08):
on.
I'm going to turn on YouTube tosee if it'll play.
Okay, it's working on YouTube.
So what the fuck?
I can't hear you.
But I appreciate you trying totalk.
Try again.
Nope, try again why it workedon YouTube.
(56:29):
Um, let me open my volume mixerHeadphones.
Yes, um, shoot.
Should we stop the recordingand then I leave and I come back
and then we finish therecording?
Okay, I'm sorry, look at how Ilook like an airline pilot or
(56:52):
like a telemarketer.
Okay?
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