Pig vs 8MM

The hosts of the upcoming Brother Sibling Movie podcast: Meredith and Evan join the gang to talk two very tonally different movies. 1999's snuff-fest: 8MM goes up against show favorite Pig (2021). Do Max California and Dino Velvet have enough juice to upset Robin Feld and hottie-patottie Amir? Learn the sweet new Cage Match sex move: the Salted Baguette™. Hopefully Bruce Springsteen isn't feeling litigious...This is Cage Match.

Intro music by: Bill Panks

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
What you are listening to is real. The participants are not actors. They are real people with a case pending in Podcast Court.

(00:10):
Hello, I'm Producer Peter and welcome to Cage Match, colon, a roundabout way of meeting Nicolas Cage, colon, Podcast Court.
Today's case is between a man who only wears grody union suits and one who legitimately named a child Cinderella.
Oh God.
Oh my God.

(00:44):
How you been, Evan? Long time no see.
I've been better, you know, working and living and working in L.A. and the entertainment industry is not exactly
in a good spot right now for anybody.
But I mean, you can take a page out of Joaquin Phoenix's book and go work in the old pornography show.

(01:05):
You know what? I just might do that.
I might just go and hang out in the old, the classically, the classic Hollywood porn strip.
I hear the name Max, California is available.
Yeah, I mean, he's dead. So you can definitely use that.
You heard it here first.
Spoilers. Yeah. Yeah. I like your microphone.

(01:27):
I'm sure Meredith updated you that we're trying to get a podcast off the ground, too.
And this was a loner mic from a good friend of mine who knows a lot of audio stuff.
So I said, give me a compressor mic. And he said, I got one.
Have you licked it? Yep. Stuck it in my butt.
You got to claim it that way. Nice. You double dip it.

(01:49):
There's many ways to claim them.
That's why he's a which you max.
So which one did you do first?
Well, you got to you got to lick and then stick. Right.
Yeah. And then might. Yeah. Smart. You never go ask the mouth.
Sorry, I like to stay wet. Oh, yeah. Freeman listens to this.
Yep. And he hates anal.
How do you think is a Jello shot adventure?

(02:11):
Tell me more about whatever the fuck you're talking about.
Oh, it's when I was in Portland and I found that I saw that sticker that said eat ass now.
Yeah, it was it was it wasn't an official sticker.
It was graffiti. But, you know, keep it classy Portland.
And I shared that to the cage chat. And I'm like, this one's for Freeman.
And then you mentioned that, you know, he was like seven Jello shots in.

(02:33):
So, you know, anything could happen.
You shouldn't do Jello shots through the but but it would go in easier.
Now, is it like a body shot at that point?
We are talking about sucking a Jello shot out of somebody's butt.
No, no, I was thinking more about insertable. Yeah.
Yeah. You put it in and then you get it out.
Yeah. Human centipede. Right. It's a enema.

(02:55):
Yeah. If you put it in one of those ear cleaning bulbs. Yeah.
And then you squeeze it with your butt.
You could just like spray somebody right in the face with it.
It's like vodka. Yeah. Mazel tov.
Yeah. Hello, Evan. Thanks for joining our podcast.
Hey, Evan. Welcome to welcome to Cage Match,
calling around about way of meeting Nicolas Cage.
I'm Sean here with my co-host Nick and our producer Peter. Hello.

(03:19):
And this week we have another special guest, my former brother-in-law, Evan.
Hi, Evan. Hello, I'm Evan.
Former brother-in-law and current stranger to us.
Two of us. We wiped our memory as soon as the family relation ended.
That's smart. That's what you have to do.
Ideally, that's how all breakups work.
It involves lots of Jello shots from the butt.

(03:44):
That's the way that you lose your memory.
Evan, tell us a little bit about you.
Relationships to movies, industry, anything.
I thought you were just like relationships, how tall you are.
What's your swang and and danging?
That's a that's a it's a tall family. I'll tell you that.
Artist and a filmmaker.
I art director for stop motion animation out here in Los Angeles, California.

(04:08):
I've been living out here about a decade.
I write, I draw, I make movies. I try to.
I try to stay employed in this crazy, crazy industry of mine.
I guess that's about it. Not much to me.
If you were to write one piece of Nicolas Cage fan fiction,
what would be just like your elevator pitch on it?

(04:30):
Whatever it is, it has to involve him screaming a lot.
So I like that maybe he's an old man and he's going deaf and
just honorary grandpa Nicolas Cage, honorary grandpa Nicolas Cage.
And it turns out he has to save the world.
He has one piece of information that nobody else does.

(04:53):
He's a former CIA agent and but he's old.
And through the course of the action, he loses his hearing aid.
So he has to yell at everybody and everybody can hear him just fine.
But he can't hear anybody else.
All right. I was going to say this sounds like dying of the light.
Yeah, but I like the idea that he loses his hearing aid and he's just yelling everything.
Everyone else is just like, we can sir.

(05:16):
So Dying of the Light is a movie where he's like a CIA analyst trying to track down a terrorist from when he was like in the field.
But he's losing his mind and he's got dementia.
He's got dementia. And one of the side effects that they state early on is wild mood swings.
So we're like, yes, we're going to get some great unhinged cage.
And he he yells about not being able to smoke inside one time.

(05:37):
And the rest of it is just like sad. Yeah.
Sweepy. So like mild mood swing.
This is like leaving Las Vegas. Except not as fun.
Devin, what's your relationship to Cage at this point?
I mean, I've been a big fan my whole life.
You know, Nick Cage, ride or die.
I mean, I'm not as well versed as you fellas. I don't think.
Let's see. What was the first movie I ever watched? Nicholas Cage.

(05:59):
What was the first movie I remember as the kid as a kid?
I watched The Rock a lot. We had the VHS and watched it over and over.
It's probably one of the best action films ever made.
And that's where that's where we get the line.
Oh, my God. What is it? Let's just let's quit the chit chat.
The whole I love that one.
I don't know. Like so since then, I've just been like Nick Cage.

(06:22):
Keep Cajun it up. Always loved him as an actor.
You know, sort of followed his trajectory to crazy millionaire,
having to repossess his islands to pay his mortgages or whatever happened to him.
You sell off a castle, you know, standard midlife shit. Yeah.
But I'm all for this upward swing of cage that's been happening over the last.

(06:44):
Mm. What's it been? Five years now, maybe since I don't know.
When did Mandy come out? 2018. So seven years. Yeah.
Seven years. Yeah.
He's been kind of on a solid upward trajectory since then, I think.
Big fan. You know, nobody yells quite like cage.
There is a very specific type of holler he does.
Is it a hoot or a holler? It's a holler.

(07:07):
It's a holler for sure.
I mean, sometimes, but I think he's mostly a hollerer.
Caster, Caster Troy hooted. Oh, he hoots.
There's a time and a place for a hoot.
It's when you're eating a peach. Yeah. For hours.
Yeah. A lot of hooting.
We can't get away from mass play this episode.
I don't think we can ever get away from mass play.
We are millennials. Yeah. It keeps giving the gift that keeps giving.

(07:29):
Can't afford groceries. Got all these student loans.
Got to eat something.
In this podcast, we take 64 Nicolas Cage films,
and then we bracket that down to 32.
And then further seven.
16 16 16 16 16 16.

(07:50):
So we've watched these films now at least twice.
This will be our third viewing, but we've watched most of these more than that.
And we right now are going to discuss the feel good film of what year?
I've already forgotten.
We're professional podcasters.
Peter will edit this out.
Maybe eight millimeter Joel Schumacher in 1998.

(08:14):
Ninety nine nine.
There's eight millimeter to know it's don't even look into it.
I've heard it's so much worse.
I don't even think it's a real thing.
Like, I mean, I know it exists, but starring Rickles age. Yeah.
So yeah, the feel good romp of 1999 eight millimeter.
Oh, Peter. I felt great. I don't sound dumb.

(08:37):
I got you. Don't worry. Don't worry.
You've been muted the whole time.
I did have to check the board.
Evan, you want to give us a quick rundown about what this movie is about?
So Nick Cage, a.k.a. Tom Wells, is a private investigator working for the elite of Washington, D.C.
But he's still trying to get his big break, which I guess is a thing that you are looking for when you're a private investigator in Washington, D.C.

(09:05):
He gets a big call from a lady, an old lady at a mansion who realizes she has a eight millimeter,
which appears to be a snuff film of a young woman getting beaten and murdered.
She just wants to know that her this was a in her husband's safe,
and she just wants to make sure that this is not real, that her husband was a good, moral, upstanding rich person,

(09:27):
which, as we all know, is what all rich people are in their heart of heart.
They're the best.
So Tom Wells goes on a mission to track down whether or not the eight millimeter film reel is real or not.
It is the only one in existence.
And as the movie progressed, he continues to get more and more obsessed with the idea of finding out about it.

(09:48):
We discover the name of the possible victim and he meets her mother,
at which point he starts to get emotionally invested in the case a lot more,
which would be hard to tell if he was emotionally invested in anything,
because every line in this movie seems to be kind of delivered in a very strict monotone that everybody sort of adheres to throughout the movie.

(10:11):
Oh, that's professionalism.
Oh, she's sweet.
She misses you.
This is Joel Schumacher, the man who directed Batman and Robin.
So you've got to give him some credit.
You know, he can really go ostentatious when he needs to.
We'll come back to Batman and Robin in a minute.
Please continue.
What happens after he trail runs him to Hollywood, California, as everyone knows, the den of sin and disgusting pornography.

(10:39):
They're in California at a local pornography video store. He meets Max California, a.k.a. Joaquin Phoenix in a very early role pre gladiator.
I think Max becomes his sidekick, which I just love that he has a he has to have a pornography sidekick.
Sherpa, really? Yeah, a porn sherpa. Yeah.

(11:00):
And Tom continues to go deeper and deeper into the seedy underworld of trying to find out the legitimacy of snuff films, tracking them down.
Eventually, he discovers Eddie Poole played by James Gandolfini, my favorite character in the whole movie.
Yeah, good pick. So good.
Also, then he begins to tap his phone and finds out that the trail is leading to New York, where Peter Storm air.

(11:27):
You know, velvet, you know, that there's a big showdown in a warehouse.
There's some piece of evidence that reveals that indeed this girl was murdered.
And Nicolas Cage goes on a rampage to basically murder everybody involved.
Oh, they kill Max California. Yeah, they killed him with a crossbow.
I was very delirious by this time in the movie, but I knew that he was very mad at these men for doing very bad things.

(11:54):
And he started to kill them all. And that was my favorite thing.
No, they killed Max California. Oh, that's a neck.
And then the crossbow got the lawyer cross.
But the lawyer shot Dino, who should have died more cinematically.
That's right. And Nicholas Cage ran away.
And the machine got stabbed in the stomach. Gandolfini.
It was fucking mayhem. Listen, Chris.

(12:17):
Chris Bauer doesn't have a stomach. He has a tummy.
And then we get locked into like an airplane, like just do to in flight.
OK. How did Gandolfini go?
He tracks him to his home and then he takes him to the place that they murdered the girl.
And then he that's when he actually is the first time he actually has to decide whether or not he's going to kill this guy.

(12:38):
Anybody that he's feeling so much pent up anger and rage at the injustice of it all.
And guess what? Eventually, he does. He smashes his skull in with the butt of his gun.
And then he pours pornography all over poor James Gandolfini before lighting him on fire.
Yeah, which is sick. It is pretty sick. I mean, what a waste of pornography.
I'm sure it was the really good stuff, too. Hey, man.

(13:01):
He was clearly packing it because he was going to be gone for a while.
You got to bring your good stuff at that point.
You don't expect the house help to leave your porn alone.
All right. So the big climax. Very relatable.
Of this entire movie, The Machine's House. Sorry.
The Machine's. Now, that was an interesting turn.

(13:22):
I thought when they were just like, well, guess what?
The big bad guy in this just is just psycho. Just there's no reason.
He just likes killing people. And yeah, that's our thesis.
Like some people are just disgusting and evil.
And there's always going to be people trying to murder young women and make snuff films out of them, I guess.
Yeah, because there's three rules in this world.
There's always a victim. Don't be in. What about the third one?

(13:46):
I forgot what the third was. Har har har.
We quoted the movie and he did. Good job. Yeah.
We're professionals. Yeah.
I have some weird thought like questions about the final scene, and it's mostly logistics.
I just don't understand how the machine was so aware of Wells's presence in the house.

(14:10):
He came in through the basement and then like the music like stops.
So like, oh, OK, something's going on.
And then he proceeds cautiously and the music starts back up and it's still a effects twin.
And I don't know who can listen to two effects twin songs in a row, but obviously a psychopath.
That's not true. I love Daddy. I love it.

(14:32):
It's with no liquor. I could name a few.
Yeah, he only likes effects twin and Danzig, though.
I know that for a fact. The Danzig posters were very quoted like Danzig fans are psychopaths.
Oh, thanks. Movie. Now I know.
They did not dig deep at all.
They could have given us like some skinny puppy posters or a classic hang in there cat.

(14:56):
Yeah, one of those. It's a sad one. Yeah. Yeah.
Like they killed the cat. Right. Hang in there. Hang in there.
Well, yeah. Oh, no. The old free cat balloon.
Evan, had you seen this movie before or was this your first real go through on it?
This is the I'd heard about this movie before.
And I the only thing I knew about it was that it was considered one of Nicholas Cage's darker movies

(15:23):
and that I was pretty sure it involved snuff films.
So I feel like I got a decent teaser of it.
I know this is the first time I've actually watched it all the way through.
It was really it really brought me back to like I just love a 90s thriller.
This one's definitely a little bit darker than what a lot of them are.
But there's just something so nostalgic about those movies like Primal Fear.

(15:45):
And, you know, they usually involve like a lawyer or something or somebody caught up in a government scheme.
But they just have a patina of like maybe it's the film stock.
You know, but like, well, there were no superhero movies, right?
So we were just like, well, what John Grisham novel are we going to turn into a movie?

(16:06):
So and that was that was the flavor of an adult movie back then.
And yeah, I remember thinking, hmm, I feel this this movie made me I am an adult,
but it made me feel like an adult again, like when I was a kid thinking one day I would be an adult.
So you watch this movie and you're like, fuck, I just grew up again.
Exactly. Life got worse.
The truth. Yeah.

(16:28):
The weight of this world now rests upon my shoulders.
Anyone else remember being a kid, being like one day I'll be an adult.
And then you realize that nobody's an adult. No one's in charge.
It's all chaos. Anything. Parents are a fallacy.
You just got to keep saying you're in charge and eventually you're in charge.
It's working so far. A certain dominance by just claiming it.
So what are your feelings on Joel Schumacher? And this can be open forum.

(16:52):
I am not a huge fan, but I get why he's important.
I was thinking about his his legacy as I was watching this movie
and just realizing what a weird continuum of films this dude has made.
So he he didn't direct this, but he wrote the script for The Wiz.
Have you heard of The Wit? Do you know the way is? Of course. Yeah.

(17:15):
Yeah. Incredible movie. But he wrote this.
The Power Glove. No, not the Power Glove. Oh, wait, no.
It's the Michael Jackson. Oh, no. The Wizard of Oz.
Oh, God. What am I thinking of?
The Wizard. Not the Wiz. What am I thinking of with?
I don't know.
All that came into my brain was Frankie Muniz. And it's like, nope, not him.

(17:37):
The product, Frankie Muniz. Yeah.
Just really any, of course, famously did Batman Forever and Batman and Robin.
He seems like and the number 23 after this movie, which is like also weirdly dark.
In a way, I wouldn't expect him to go down that road for I don't know.
I wonder if later in his career, he's going to be reconsidered as like an auteur.

(17:59):
We just didn't understand. But I think probably not.
I think he's just like a journeyman. He's like he knows how to make a movie.
He takes whatever job he can get, you know. But
didn't he do Lost Boys as well? Yep.
I mean, I feel like that's kind of the sweet spot for me is Lost Boys.
And then anything after that, I'm like, I'm not the biggest fan of his Batman movies,

(18:22):
but you just recently watched them.
Yes. And they're still terrific. I don't know why.
They're just like there's so much like modern attempts at Adam West,
cardboard, bright lights, cities and just absurdity.
It's nice to just watch a movie like that and be like, wow, somebody approved this.

(18:45):
And then remember, like Batgirl just got canned by the same studios.
I'm sure it was the same studios. WB, who knows? Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Wonder Brothers.
They're doing all kinds of awful stuff these days.
Just really ruin the pooch every left and right right now.
You're telling me that rich people do bad shit? For monetary reasons.
Some of them make enough films. They pay for enough films.

(19:08):
Nice. They let artists make those.
Dino Velvet is an artist. Thank you.
But no, talking about like his Batman movies, that was a weird transitional point in my youth
because Batman Forever came out. I fucking love that movie as a kid.
It just I had all the toys. I was really into that film.
I got it on VHS, watched it constantly.
The car. Chicks dig the car.

(19:30):
Like it's such a fun, stupid film.
And then a couple of years later, Batman and Robin came out.
And I realized for the first time in my life, movies could be bad.
I have never watched that entire film. Oh, man. It's terrific.
Yeah. Although when I'm watching it, I do still have the same thought that I did when I was a kid.

(19:52):
When Uma Thurman comes on screen, it's like, oh, yeah, puberty can wait.
I don't need this. She's not.
It's a terrible performance. They really push her sexiness in it.
And it's just not their Uma Thurman trying to be really sexy.
I don't know. Like Drew Barrymore's in like Batman Forever for a second.
Yeah. She's sugar, sugar and spice.

(20:16):
Oh, yeah. Two faces, hench, hench bitches.
Apparently on the set of Batman and Robin every day, Joel Schumacher was yelling through his bullhorn.
Remember, everybody, this is a comic book.
No one cares.
I kind of love that, which explains so much about the movie and how it turned out.
Definitely like the hornyest latex suit that you can get.

(20:42):
So many ass shots.
And then there's that one scene they cut of Val Kilmer fucking the giant bat.
Wait, is this real? What?
There's a in Batman Forever, there's a dream sequence that gets cut or like a giant animatronic bat like in Val Kilmer embrace.
You can find it online. You treat yourself tonight.

(21:03):
That's how Peter Lowe became a vampire.
They didn't have the technology when he was making Lost Boys.
I think a fuckable bat. Yeah.
I still remember and bring up every time I talk about Batman and Robin when I was in the theater and I Mr.
Freeze comes out, they turned on the air conditioning and it was so fucking corny and stupid.

(21:29):
But I was like, hell yeah. Small town, regional, like independent movie theater.
Really pull out all the stops. I mean, it's immersion, baby.
They got a single screen. They're going to devote all their attention to it.
We were doing 4D cinema before it was popular.
They had just a person come out and throw ice cubes at you.
Super so in the front row. Yeah.

(21:50):
As long as we're still on Joel Schumacher, I have a Joel Schumacher story.
He came to my school once. My buddy was doing a digital video. It was like a film festival.
He reached out to Joel Schumacher, not expecting him to come through.
And he did. And so this is a very small film festival with all of our college friends.

(22:13):
So my friend Sammy is like, oh, my God, you guys, he gets on the megaphone like Joel Schumacher is coming.
Please don't make an ass of us. You know, he's like, whatever you do, don't ask him about Batman and Robin.
So he does a screening of Tigerland, which is I think a Vietnam War movie with Colin Farrell in it.

(22:34):
We watch it and then he's like comes out to do a Q&A. It's very cool.
It was like, oh, cool, Joe Schumacher, you know, and then this one guy who in the front row who's like, you know,
he's he's a film student, too, but he's like, you know, like bleach blonde hair surfer guy.
First one to raise his hand like anybody got questions like, so what's the deal with Batman and Robin?

(22:56):
And Sammy's like, Motherfuck. So but it was very he was very cool about it.
He had a great thing to say about it. He was like, you know, sometimes you just get too many cooks in the kitchen,
especially when a lot of money's involved.
But I've take full responsibility because it's on my shoulders.
But I'll just say that there were a lot of people trying to sell action figures behind the scenes on that movie.

(23:20):
I was like, well, that's a very like metered response.
He knows what he did and he knows why it happened to.
Toy addict movies were like a really weird aspect of the late 90s. I mean, that had been going on for so long with like He-Man, G.I. Joe.
Sure. Yeah. But they weren't they weren't getting feature films.
Well, and there was a weird part in the 90s. Ninety Ninja Turtles, for sure.

(23:44):
But there was a weird part in the 90s, like 80s and 90s, where just like if something looked cool,
we could sell it to kids, even though it's not a kid's property. Robocop had a toy line.
Aliens had a toy line. They made a Toxic Avenger or Toxic Crusader cartoon show.
That was a cartoon show. I had a couple of the toys. My mom didn't know any better.
There was it was on like cable. So it was like very censored.

(24:09):
But like the Toxic Avenger was on.
So my my mom was just like, oh, this is that thing Sean likes and put that on for me.
Did you still like it afterwards? I had questions.
Robocop, you see somebody like fucking melt or get their brain exploded.
It's like, oh, boy. OK. Oh, God. Melty guy. The guy gets acid bathed.

(24:30):
You're talking about Red Foreman from this. He's not the one who gets acid bathed.
Oh, he doesn't know. But like one of his goons does.
And that freak that still fucks with me.
This might be my first time watching eight millimeter,
but I definitely watched the Saturday morning cartoon adaptation of eight millimeter when I was a child.
It's true. The toys were terrific.

(24:52):
Yeah, right. Any pool.
It's a cigarette that flings from his hand. You know, no, I wasn't smoking.
Pull the string and gaslight your wife. Right.
Action figure does it all.
So what did you think of Cage's overall performance in this film?
He's riding high at this point in his career. 99. He's in the sweet spot.

(25:15):
You know, I was I wasn't sure if I was going to be needing to defend this movie or not.
I was like, you guys put me in a hard spot going up against Pig.
I'm like, pretty kind of OK movie masterpiece.
OK, fine. I'll I'll defend eight millimeter. Cool.
But I will say that I think that post 1995, like he's won his Oscar for leaving Las Vegas.
Right. So in some movies, he feels a little checked out.

(25:39):
I would say this one is one of them, at least for the first hour or so.
I think he really was like doing it for the last 20 minutes.
He's like got to that part in the script and was like, I want to screw it.
I want to mess some people up and like grow pornography on people and beat a guy up in the rain.
Like, that sounds like what I want to spend the next few months getting to, you know.

(26:01):
So, I don't know, like, I feel like he could honestly, I feel like he could have gone a little bit deeper on the early end.
Like he kind of just calls his wife a lot for the first half hour of the movie.
But but when he does get to cage out at the end, I'm like, all right, this is the this is the guy we know.
I think we need more of this throughout the movie.

(26:22):
Yeah, I think his adventures with Max California are pretty good.
Anything before that or it's there's just nothing to it.
Then you're right, you get that real cage rage to kind of end the entire thing.
Does any of the film merit any of that? No.
I feel like we get a legit like holler from him when he's chained to the bed after, you know, when they're going to kill him.

(26:43):
He's bleeding. He's.
Is that a holler?
That's as much energy as I have right now.
You don't have a holler in you right now.
No, I don't. But fucking Stormare.
Oh, Stormare. Oh, he's so good.
We also had the cameo from I don't know what his name is anymore.
Walking Dead Guy.
Oh, Norman Reedus.

(27:05):
That's right. I forgot.
I forgot about that. I just watched that.
He's such like a little fucking bitch boy.
He is a little bitch.
But like, I mean, really, he's in jail or prison, like mopping.
Yeah, like he doesn't give a fuck.
And you come up to him asking about some ex girlfriend that he hasn't seen.
And it's like, listen, man, I've got to clean up this fucking blood right now.

(27:27):
Yeah, don't bother me.
Yeah, that was a nice little cameo.
It's always fun to come back to that and be like, oh, man, he looks exactly the same.
And that's unfortunate.
So I'm going somewhere with this. I'll tie this back in.
But last week, I went to Central Cinema for a screening of The Big Lebowski.
And I forgot that Peter Stormare was one of the Nihilus because I haven't seen them in like 10 years.

(27:50):
I forgot that, too.
And I was thinking about that.
And I'm like, oh, eight millimeter going to watch Peter Stormare again.
And I just said, I'm like, this guy has like he's been typecast because with that name and that face
and that voice, you can't do anything but be a creep.
Yeah. But he does it so well.
Yeah. I can't imagine like romantic lead Peter Stormare.
Yeah. Like it could happen to you, but it's Peter Stormare in the Rosie Perez role.

(28:12):
Just Beauty and the Beast. But it's Peter Stormare.
They need to remake the room. But with Peter Stormare. No.
I feel like he could do that character justice.
He's Tommy Wiseau.
Oh, Peter Stormare. Yes. Oh, Evan, have you seen the core?
Oh, wait, that's the Hillary Swank one where they have to go and save the world or whatever.

(28:34):
Oh, my God. No, I restart the world's like the core.
The core. That word. What's that word?
I can't think of from the core.
It starts with the core. Something like work.
Evan, do yourself a favor. Go watch the core right now.
It's fucking awesome. We'll wait. Yeah. Come back.
We'll see you in a few. Yeah.

(28:55):
I'll be right there in 10 minutes.
No, you should watch it. It's fucking awesome.
It's so dumb. It's so good. Killer cast.
I love a good dumb movie.
Do you have a favorite quote from the film Per Chance?
I do. I think I hemmed in Haan.
But I think I decided that I really I think that it sums up the movie perfectly.
And it's and it's the first moment where I feel like Nick Cage gives a delivery where I'm like,

(29:19):
Oh, he's feeling this. He's getting into it. You know, we're starting to see the ramp up.
You killed her. You killed her on film.
Now you're fucked. You're all fucked.
He hangs up the phone at a pool.
I'm a big fan. I'm a big fan, too, of Max California's line.
Sir, could I interest you in a badger operated vagina?

(29:40):
He's so nonchalant about it.
His salesmanship was top notch.
It was very, very casual.
That's character work there. You know, he's like, I've been in this porn shop for a year and a half now.
I'm used to battery operated vaginas.
Cash credit battery operated vagina.

(30:01):
What did you think about the score of this film?
Oh, my God. I was hoping that someone would mention it because I was like, this is incredible.
It's so all over the place and I love it so much.
I want to know more about who made the decisions to put all those strange elements together.
I think it was a very conscious and ill advised attempt at doing something that orally puts you on edge

(30:29):
and gives you a sense of like uneasiness.
But they started it too early because it was just like right out the bat.
It's like, oh, I feel grossed out by this movie.
And it's like the opening like title card.
But at other times, I'm like, oh, OK, I understand.
Like, I think I understand what's like intended by this.

(30:51):
But it was just so weird.
Yeah. The whole movie is like that.
Right. Like the score is maybe one of the better, more concrete examples of it.
But just it feels like there's no part of this movie that it want that it wants you to enjoy.
You know, like it wants you to be skeezed out the whole time.
You're just like, I'm just riding this wave of feeling completely uneasy for like two hours

(31:17):
and you already are uneasy.
And then you get further and further into the like the cesspool of like dirty snuff film creators
and, you know, people who deal pornography in an alleyway, which is like such a great movie invention.
There are great character moments in here like Peter Stormare is awesome.
That tall Swedish guy is weird and crazy and great.

(31:41):
I like the mom, too. I felt like she really brought some something to it.
The old lady was cool. Like, so if you could give us like a quick pitch, why this one should win
and take pig out of the equation, just like why do you think that this movie kind of fucking slaps?
Eight millimeter is important because it goes a place that most revenge plot movies don't go.

(32:06):
It goes deeper than I think it gets at the core of the sort of male repressed ego shadow self.
Right. Like we kind of wonder we have all these Hollywood movies that are about killing people
righteously, right. Like having a good excuse to murder people because it's sort of a fantasy movie.
It's a thing that we work against that we shouldn't do for good society.

(32:30):
But we know there's an urge in us to sort of like get at other people and kill people.
You know, this movie is one of the first is one of the only movies, I think, in Hollywood cinema
that actually explores the concept of what would it actually take for a somewhat normal person
to get pushed far enough to actually murder a stranger, someone that they do know.

(32:54):
Most of the time, those conceits are kind of like I felt like it was actually a very realistic ramp up
of what it would take for somebody in a position to be like pushed so far to see the bad side
and to be exposed to the evil side of humanity to actually go that far to murder someone with their own gun.

(33:17):
Admittedly, he doesn't shoot them. He's still cognizant enough not to kill them.
He doesn't shoot them. He's still cognizant enough not to do that.
But yeah, this is Carl Jung's shadow work. This is his anima.
You know, this is his sort of like this is a real dive into the unconscious shadow world of the repressed male ego.
And I think it also even goes even farther with the main quote villain, the machine being literally having no reason,

(33:46):
no reason for killing anybody. That is what many of us are afraid is at our core,
that there's just a psychopathic killing machine underneath us that is waiting to come out, you know.
And in the end, like Nicolas Cage, that's to the point where he can actually murder people that he's never met before.
And he comes out the other side completely like changed, right? He feels awful about it.

(34:11):
And but he but he has also found a way to integrate his his darker nature.
And he I would argue I think the film is arguing that he comes out a fuller person from having gone through this.
So I think that there's and I so I think this is important to Hollywood moviemaking because it really is no film that explores it to this amount of depth.

(34:36):
It's kind of like psychosis of that murderous impulse that we all fear that we have.
And I think it does a great job exploring it. And Joel Schumacher is an incredible filmmaker who never makes a mistake.
Perfect. Well, it was nice to see you.
I get that reference. As much as I mean, I've said this before, as much as this movie isn't necessarily a fun watch and it is kind of it is uncomfortable.

(35:05):
I think it's still a good, well-made film and does have there's I mean, it's been lucky enough to go up against some real stinkers in this bracket.
But I do think it belongs at this level still.
I think you hit on something there, too, that I've thought about that this movie does a fair job of we kind of said soiling everything that you might like about it throughout the film.

(35:30):
This especially going into the movie, where the different kinds ofxide comes up in this.
星 is that I think at the same moment when LMed worked out Natal's for model art we started getting, even so far as like the hero because they let him get to a point where
like he's having these like crimes of passion, but then they pull him back and what he does next is now premeditated where he goes back and hunts them
heroism from his actions because he's not like bringing justice.

(35:52):
He's just avenging.
Yeah. And I think that's something
I mean, it was a big, big choice they made.
And no matter how effectively they pulled it off,
they did it and you don't get that kind of choice very often.
You want heroes to be heroic and your villains to have press on nails.

(36:16):
And they did press them on hard.
Oh, my God. Those things were like seashells.
All right, Evan. Well, thank you for being here with us.
You want to pitch anything or promote anything right now? Sure.
You can find me on all the socials at Art of Evan K.
A R T O F E V A N K.
The letter K.

(36:37):
That's Instagram and YouTube.
I'm starting up my own my YouTube channel.
I'm also doing a podcast with my sibling, Brother Sibling Movie,
where we do where we listen.
Sorry, we watch.
What do you do to movies where we watch movies or a certain theme?

(36:58):
And then we kind of continue on past those to ones that we have
explored later in life that we discovered later in life.
So this particular moment in time, we're doing 90s science fiction and fantasy
films, and it's a hoot.
Listen, let's talk about some of our favorite movies.
And you can also on my website, Art of Evan K.

(37:19):
Dot com. Are you going to watch Weird Science with your sister?
Ooh, maybe Hard Pass.
You know, we didn't watch that one as kids.
So I don't so I don't I don't have like a memory of it from childhood.
Unfortunately, I know it's a lot of people's favorite movie,
but I do want to do like screwball fantasy comedies of the 80s.

(37:41):
Like that would be a good niche subgenre to get into like parkies.
Exactly. Yeah.
Please. God damn it.
I'm just thinking about brother and sister movies.
I don't know. I get it.
All right.
Stripes had a shower scene.
We all know how formative stripes was for you. Shut up.

(38:01):
I became a man.
I think we should do a series where we watch uncomfortable movies
with our parents in the room, too, so we could do like Mulholland Drive
and just like just watch a five, no ten minute lesbian sex scene
going super hard with mom in the room.
That would be a lot of fun. Oh, yeah.
I talked about this with Meredith just an hour ago, but yet watching

(38:25):
when we Meredith and I watched Blade Runner at your dad's place
and Marta was there and the the very aggressive love scene
was an uncomfortable moment for everybody in that room.
Yeah, right.
Where Harrison Ford was given the direction, just make it happen.
That's how I feel every time.

(38:46):
Well, thank you, Evan.
You're very welcome.
Thank you for letting me do it.
And a pleasure and an honor and a gentleman.
All right. Thank you so much.
I'm noticing some of the time.
Oh, Nick's full of four Coney dogs right now.
Sucking on a chilly dog, a chilly dog.

(39:10):
Man, I fucking love that song.
I think about that a lot.
It gets stuck in my head pretty consistently. Yep.
Right up there with two little dudes trying to send me nudes.
I don't know that one.
Send that to me later.
It's not like the lyrics aren't great or anything, but the
the music is like catchy and it just keeps getting stuck in my head.
What's the one you sent fairly recently?

(39:32):
Godzilla's thick ass.
Oh, yeah. I know you sent it to tank in there.
Yeah, I don't think I saw this.
It was just in the comic.
Yeah. Oh, sure.
And then there's he has another one about how if he went to Hogwarts,
he just solves all his problems with violence.
Yeah. Snap in wands.
My favorite line is about a cadaver, a vada deez nuts.
Oh, I like that.
Hey, so what's your what's your podcast set up since you're one of us now?

(39:55):
Yeah. One of us.
Google Gobble.
I have a microphone.
I have a sound board and I have headphones.
Pants optional.
I am wearing pants.
You've changed.
Which I did almost take off.
But then I was but then I was like, no time.
And I will say, though, that an Evan can confirm this.
So I just like bought like a sound card as I was like, this is going to work.

(40:19):
I think I know nothing about audio equipment.
I'm just going to buy it.
Fuck it. Whatever.
Mine actually came with pre-programmed sounds in it.
Oh, oh, boy.
You better believe I'm not.
I'm not going to do it to you guys because it's so horrendous.
These sounds are so bad.
I just get you. Give us a taste. Give us one.

(40:41):
I don't know if we can hear it. Let's try.
Maybe not. But yeah, give us.
Not me.
I'm.
That's kind of fucking tight.
Sounds like living above a gay club.
Look, there is there's also what I call the cursed buttons,
which are male voice, female voice, baby voice and monster voice.

(41:02):
And I call them cursed buttons, a because they make you sound like a demon
in various forms, but also once you press them, they can't like be
unpressed without resetting the whole system.
And so I for like 20 minutes was just like stuff using a monster voice.
Please tell me this is your first episode of your podcast.

(41:23):
Press baby voice.
As Evan and I were just like pissing ourselves laughing,
like unable to contain it, because it was like panicking
trying to turn it off.
And it was just like, what the fuck is going on?
I'm excited to have both of you plug the same thing at the end of each episode
for each part of this episode.
Yeah. Do you do you have a date for your first episode?

(41:44):
Oh, we call them guests. What?
What was the.
Sorry, it was just the best joke this podcast has ever told.
We don't have an official release date for which you can blame Evan.
Editor Evan.
Welcome back to Cage magical and around about meeting Nicko's cage.
Our special guest and my favorite person slash ex-spouse, Meredith.
Hi, it's me, Mayor.

(42:05):
Hello, Mayor Morgan, if you're wondering.
That's right. I took their last name.
I think that's a good power grab.
Did you wait until after the divorce papers were signed to take the name?
Oh, no, it's the only reason I'm taking this annexation.
It's the only reason they married me.
It's the only reason I married them. Are you kidding me?
I was like, you've got a great last name and a shitty personality.

(42:27):
Let's do this thing.
I could easily drag this out for the legal minimum amount of time. Perfect.
Yeah. Is there a legal minimum amount of time?
There is a maximum, though, for something in California
that's called a summary dissolution, which is basically just like we decided.
No, that's five years and we got just under the wire.

(42:48):
Yeah, no, it was like we were married for like four years
and like eight months or something.
And I was like, but Boop, someone says this is cheaper.
Clocks ticking.
I'm glad I reminded you to file that paperwork six months after the fact.
So on this podcast, we discussed my problems as well as Nicholas Cage films.

(43:11):
Yep. So clearly we are here to talk about the movie Pig.
Yeah. Which came out in 2021 and great movie fucking rules.
Meredith, you as our special guest get to talk about pig
and give us a quick synopsis.
Oh, OK, cool.
So basically I can I think I might be able to do this in like one sentence.
Do it. A lunatic is living in the woods with his pigs and with his pig.

(43:36):
The pig gets stolen and he goes crazy.
And that's the whole movie.
I think you watched a different movie.
That's two sentences.
OK, well, I can do it.
I can do a more in depth if you if you'd like.
Yeah, go for it.
Start with a thirst trap living in the woods.
Yeah. Union suit.

(43:57):
OK, fucking hot.
Big old beard, scraggly hair, a fucking thick ass cheeks.
Yeah, he looks like fucking
Santa Moon vest from 30 Rock, kind of.
Just like the homeless guy who's always sort of around.
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
He does. He's yeah, it's a real externalization of what I feel

(44:18):
like Nicolas Cage's life must have been like around, I don't know, the year 2011.
So there's this guy, he lives in the woods.
His seemingly his only companion is a very cute pig,
which is called a cune cune pig.
It's a particular breed of pig.
And they are truffle hunters in the Oregon woods.

(44:39):
One night, apparently, tweakers
come in and steal the pig.
They beat the shit out of Nick Cage.
Oh, yeah, he gets frying pan.
Yeah. Oh, the foley work on that frying pan. So good.
It's a full clang.
Doinked. Yeah.
Great foley work.
Whoever did a great job.
And then essentially this guy

(45:01):
who is a certifiable
crazy person basically uses his one contact with the outside world.
This super hottie pottie young guy in a yellow sports car
for some fucking reason, because apparently truffles make you rich in Portland.
Who knew?
Nick Cage forces him to be like, we're going to go get my pig.

(45:23):
Take me to the city.
Not a bad impersonation, actually.
Should have used the monster voice.
Yeah. Put monster voice on for the rest.
Oh, you're starting to use the monster voice.
But then I have to reset the system.
Yeah. And then basically they go through these things.
You kind of discover through the course of all of these many different
leads and things that Nick Cage's character used to be a famous chef

(45:47):
in Portland and basically goes down this whole hunt of just like
back alley restaurant worker fight club and old
sous chefs who now own restaurants who he wants to take down a peg or five.
A bakery owner that has a very serious obsession with him in a weird way.

(46:10):
All of these things essentially getting to the fact that so hottie
pottie's dad is the one that is responsible for the pig getting kidnapped.
The deep to undermine his.
Yes, the pigging.
But in the course of the beginning, it's a deep beginning.
That's that's true. Thank you, Peter.

(46:30):
The tweakers killed this seemingly very large
and very hearty animal question mark.
And then the film kind of just ends.
It like starts out
seeming like it's going to be like a revenge.
Who done it kind of true crime thing?

(46:51):
And then the last third just like goes on to this insane.
I don't even know, like meditation on fathers and sons
and family and it I fucking love this movie and I'm going to talk more about it.
But that's the basic synopsis of this film.
It's a crazy person who gets his pig stolen.
He goes and gets the pigs.
Oh, wait, the pig is dead.

(47:12):
Womp womp. Yeah.
Kind of accurate.
Plus handpan. I love handpan.
So I want to start out with my hot take of this film.
OK, take us on this journey.
I had to take a pig is that it is one of the funniest films that's ever been made.
It is a straight up comedy.
I could not stop laughing both times I've seen this film.

(47:36):
The first two acts of this film, which have like super bougie
like part one wild mushroom tart, like that's the title card or whatever
is so self-serious and so wants to be like,
this is a deep rooted character piece.
And I'm like, this is a descendant to madness of absurd proportions

(47:59):
that makes no fucking sense.
And it's absolutely comedy.
It is comedy gold.
I mean, I think this movie's hilarious.
Every time Rob goes anywhere and just like interacts with anybody, it's great.
I mean, those interactions are fantastic. I agree.
How good is your life where you don't find this movie hilarious?
I think why it's so funny is that inherently chefs,

(48:23):
especially chefs at a certain level, are certifiable
suck in lunatics that we have given knives, fire and power to.
And it just takes itself so seriously that if you're not in the fine
dining world, makes no fucking sense.
Like, why would it matter?

(48:43):
This guy had a great restaurant.
Awesome, dude. Like, good for you, I guess.
You're real intense about it.
And like, why does it matter if you get these?
Every scene is so like filled with like pregnant pauses and like a moody music.
And I'm just like, this is so stupid and I love it.
It's fucking fantastic. It's so great. It's so great.

(49:06):
It's just like a tonal mindfuck. The whole film.
No, I mean, it's certainly a take. I haven't heard before.
That's fine.
I mean, everybody can appreciate the movie for whatever they want to appreciate it for.
Be a handpan, be it a denigrating working class people or.
That is a big part of it.

(49:26):
That's a call back to something I don't remember.
You because your favorite scene is when he badmouts the former prep chef. Oh,
yeah, I do fucking love that scene.
What's what's his name? Fenway Fenway.
I just I love how he just tears that guy apart.
But I mean, the core of it isn't just to fucking break him down.
It is to like remind him of who he fucking is.

(49:47):
Yeah, because he's being fake. Right.
Current restaurant. Yeah.
That's why in my mind, it was like a comedy is because to me, I was like,
this is exposing how fucking ridiculous
this whole world is like the whole world of fine dining.
We have to eat every day. Humans have to eat.
It's an unfortunate reality.

(50:09):
This is such a like skewed version of it.
And who is it for? And it becomes this absurdist romp
through super high end fine dining in Portland, Oregon, of all places.
I don't think it's a place with a super seedy underbelly
of restaurant workers that have a fight club.
That is the only part that's really weird for me.

(50:31):
But to speak to the, you know, the title cards and the three food items
that are created, they are not hoity toity.
It is a rustic tart made in the woods with his pig.
It is fucked up French toast from a arguably brain dead mom or dead mom.
And then a meal to remind someone of how it is to be a fucking human.

(50:52):
The way to I will say this film is beautifully shot.
It is gorgeous.
Obviously, this is a film that has a great reverence for food
and cooking and feeding people and all of that.
And I do think it is like Nick Cage's character, Robin Eld.
He lost his wife. That's kind of why he went bad.

(51:12):
He is that he has taken it back to this is the most basic thing.
This is why I like eating. This is why I like food.
This is why I do all of these things.
All of the pomp and circumstance is immaterial.
So that part of it is a very like beautiful, heartfelt rule line.
Have you ever seen the movie The Menu?

(51:33):
Yes. Yes.
So I was going to say like what you're describing
sounds very much like you would be a fan of The Menu.
I love The Menu.
Yeah, it's a terrific film.
And it nails like everything that you're you're describing here.
So people who haven't seen it.
Watch the movie. Yeah, it's great.
It is wild.
Nicholas Holt in it. Yes, true.
And we like Nicholas Holt. We like all Nicklises.

(51:56):
All Nicklises are good.
There's a few.
Nick's and Jicks not into it.
Oh, not even true. You love your Jick.
That's true. I love a good Jick.
Still sounds like such a slur.
Sounds so bad.
We're going to find out it is one. No, it really does, guys.
I'm not going to lie.
I don't want to be associated with hate speech.

(52:16):
OK, I can't have my.
Yeah, don't fuck up your brand.
I mean, if any of the.
You're on this podcast.
I mean, if any of the jokes we used to make in art school ever,
like we're recorded, we'd be.
Won't say them on air because I don't want any of us to get canceled
by association.
But boy, oh boy.
Let me pause the recording.
Yeah. Oh, it's paused now. Say it.

(52:38):
Oh, is it? Oh, OK.
Well, then in that case, here's what Sean used to say.
Yeah, good. Yeah.
I still love this movie after like the fourth time watching it.
I just I put it on and just happy the whole time.
Viewing it from Rob being an outsider and kind of our introduction
to this crazy world of culinary capers is great because, you know,

(53:03):
he also has his own insight and we come to find out very much in the know
and then can completely disrupt it.
So while we're introduced to it, he's turning it on its head
and making it make more sense for himself and the viewer.
OK, I'm sorry to break character in this situation, but
so I'm recording everything in Adobe Audition and the file format
is called dot SESX and I named this one pig dot SESX.

(53:26):
Just a little too close.
I mean, that's still the movie I watched.
Pig sex. He doesn't fuck his pig, guys.
Oh, I don't fuck my pig.
Very importantly, he does not fuck his pig.
OK, that is critical information.
That is a very good distinction.
The pig PS.
It's like I watched through the credits because I was like,

(53:49):
the pig is not in the main cast.
Rude. So I watched through probably 15
like title card of the credits.
Her name is Brandy and she did have a pig understudy named Cora.
Oh, good name for pig or daughter Brandy and Cora.

(54:12):
We're both very good girls and we're really precious and really adorable.
And I thought did a great job.
And I would have loved to see a lot more of pig in film called Pig.
I'm going to tell your daughter that she was named after the pig in this movie.
Understudy.
Understudy. Well, right.
Not even the main aspire to be Brandy.
I'm sure there were a couple of days where Brandy couldn't get on set.

(54:36):
And so Cora came out and filled in, snuffed around for a little bit.
Yeah, Brandy.
She she really liked downers.
I don't know.
That's why the tweeters just fucked her up.
Barbiturates for days.
And she turns it on. She's great.
But fuck, man.
Do you have a particularly favorite scene?
Oh, I feel like every single scene in this film is sort of its own

(54:58):
self-contained vignette in a way of like getting a different
facet of these characters.
But I will say one of my favorite scenes is the scene that he goes.
Robin goes to his old what used to be his restaurant, Hestia.
And he's talking to who used to the woman that used to be like his.
Baker or pastry chef or something.

(55:19):
Pastry chef. Pastry chef.
And she has since turned it into a bakery.
And it's a very intense scene.
It's a one shot.
Like it's just them sitting at a table talking beautifully acted,
beautifully shot, still to me, absurdly funny,
because he is asking her for a salted baguette, which I was like,

(55:40):
is that a sex move?
First of all, very inappropriate.
Nick Cage, naughty, naughty.
But then I was like, what would even be a salted baguette?
Baguettes already have salt in them.
What does that even mean?
Like that's such a crazy that's such a like an insane like specialty dish
that like you just have an extra salty baguette
and they have this really intense back and forth about like,

(56:01):
oh, you know, Laurie would have wanted it.
This is like, oh, your dead wife would have wanted this.
And it's to me, I'm like, this is the peak of this film.
This is the peak of what this film is about.
It's fantastic.
And then he like gets a cookie for his friend, his hottie pottie friend
in the yellow sports car because they're actually becoming friends.
They're buddies. Yeah.
Yeah. I love that he gets the second cookie.

(56:23):
I know it's so cute.
It's so cute.
And then you just like hands him this like cookie pastry thing.
And the guy is like, I'm sorry, you haven't bathed in.
God knows how long.
Let's not even talk about the state of your clothes.
You're so mean.
You're covered in blood from getting the shit kicked out of you.
Still, you're wearing fingerless gloves.

(56:44):
We've been going all over Portland trying to find this fucking pig.
I don't want to deal with this. And you give me a cookie.
It's probably a really good cookie.
Yeah, they're already besties by then.
Yeah, but I mean, Alex Wolf doesn't know it at that point.
Amir. Yeah.
He doesn't realize that they're actually best friends.
Every time I do see that scene, though, I'm just like, yeah, I don't like that.

(57:05):
Cookies can be real dirty.
It's going to have like bum glove smell.
The scene where Amir and Robin are cooking together
after like breaking and entering in Amir's dad's house.
Totally fine, by the way. Not a problem at all.
When they're cooking together, it shows like Nick Cage
washing his hands and like doing all this food prep.

(57:25):
And it's awesome.
And like breaking the backbone of like a squab or something.
And the whole time, I was just like, yes, your hands.
That's all you're going to.
All you're going to wash.
I mean, it'd be rude to take a full bath.
They probably had a nice tub, though, like a claw tub.
I don't know. He's built up a really good protective barrier at this point.

(57:45):
You want to keep that.
Yeah. So you don't want to know what he's going to have to do
to get the hands back to a proper state.
I mean, he just goes into the river at the end of the movie, which respect.
I was upset. Salted baguette sex move.
Not a thing. Yeah.
Yeah. You heard it here first, folks.
Salted baguette and a Coney dog.

(58:09):
Who was salted baguette with a Coney back?
And I love to cook, too.
Imagine that. Speaking of cooking, I had lunch with a with Horn Quack today
or not today this week and was talking about his fitness goals.
And I'm like, well, you should probably just, you know,
stop eating out for every meal.

(58:30):
His argument was for not cooking at home is he's like, you know, have you
have you ever made a meal you would pay for?
And I'm like, yes.
Many times. Yeah.
It's not it's not that hard to cook, Nick.
Just do it. I know you don't listen to this podcast, but maybe one day you will.
Just add more salt.
That's the only thing that makes you like butter and more salt.
Butter and more salt. That's it.

(58:51):
What kind of eating?
Are we doing? What are we talking about here?
Say the salt baguette. Yeah.
Right. We're back to the move.
Oh, man. Salted baguette is where you just hear the vagina
with butter and some mold and flaky salt right on top.
Yeah. You go to town.
It's the salty baguette.
Extra crunchy for your pleasure.

(59:15):
OK, so we got Meredith's favorite scene.
What do you guys think is your favorite scene?
I mean, for me, it has to be Hestia for kind of the same reason.
Like, I just love him talking about food and sort of that those long shots
and him just being like staring up at Fenway and breaking him down.
I don't know. Oh, Fenway's place. Yeah. Yeah.

(59:35):
Yeah. That's your rid of the.
That's your rid of the.
Not Hestia. You're at a sea. Yeah.
All such douchey restaurant names.
Which is very accurate. Yeah.
No, I mean, Fenway is a personal favorite just because I love his whole speech
about how we don't get a lot of chances to care about things and just his whole
sum up of life and all the bullshit that people do to be seen

(59:56):
and not be seen the entire time.
I just love his just general demeanor.
Like when he walks in to the diner to find a phone
and the waitress is like, Yes.
You going to buy something? No.
That was I think early on in this movie, Rachel was watching it
and she was like, You said this isn't going to make me have a hard time at all.

(01:00:17):
And then it was like pig abduction.
And she was like, What the fuck?
And then the next scene is pretty much the like engine dies in the car.
Then he gets to the restaurant.
It's like, are you going to buy anything?
No. She was just like, Yeah, awesome.
And then the very next scene is you like that car.
You like that shirt.
I'd be hard pressed on a scene.
I think I like this movie's kind of theme of identity the most.

(01:00:42):
But a scene, I'll just say the scene where he gets the shit kicked out of him
by the busboy busboy.
So tiny, you know, very old to it showed how much he really would do
to find out about his pig.
Like he would take that massive beating just for a name.
I never thought about specifically that scene so much

(01:01:02):
until this time when you really see just the hatred and just just vitriol
in the waiter's face and like,
so we had to work for have worked for Rob at one point.
Or just like knows that douchey chefs are.
Yeah, he knows this.
I mean, it was a very toxic kind of occupation.
I mean, there's certainly something that's sour about everything,
because like, why did Edgar let the timer run for 15 seconds

(01:01:26):
longer than anybody else?
You know, like people are pissed that he vanished.
And people are pissed that he doesn't play the game anymore.
There is a part of it that I think anybody that's ever done restaurant work
or customer service work has a deep well of rage and alcoholism
within them that can only be quenched by violence.
As well as it's true when Rob just

(01:01:49):
gadaddle and like left his restaurant, he left not just his restaurant,
but like probably dozens of people's jobs in a total
like, oh, cool.
So like, I don't have a job anymore.
Like I. Yeah, right.
Now the pastry chef is in charge, I guess.
Yes. Like why would the pastry chef be in charge?
Like it just doesn't make any sense.

(01:02:10):
And I think it's the other thing, too, where I feel like most people I know
who have worked in kitchens, if you were like, hey, there's a fight club
where you get to go beat the shit out of other like restaurant
workers from like restaurants in your town, they would say yes.
And what do I need to do to get in?
So Chef Finway was played by David Nell, who I don't know from anything,

(01:02:33):
but he's just his expressions in that whole scene, like when he realizes
that it's who Rob is and just when he's just shaking
with like uncomfortable rage as he's being torn down and just has that
just kind of forced shitting grin, that's like almost a scowl.
I don't even think it was rage. I think it was shame.
I think that dude gets broken down really accurately.

(01:02:56):
And then Rob says, what was your dish?
And immediately he goes scotch egg. Yeah. You know? Yeah.
Yeah. I think I'm with you there on the shame portion of this.
I think it's most people's reaction.
The way I read it was we've got this, you know, rock star who was
no matter how abusive a chef could be in the kitchen
when you're working for like the shop top chef.

(01:03:19):
It's like that's what it's about.
You're doing the highest of high dining.
So there's just always going to be a level of admiration.
I think a lot of people, characters that interact with him,
that the way that I read it was there's the element of like
looking at almost like a mythical creature that you thought was gone forever.

(01:03:42):
That's just returned.
And so there's the moment of like, wow, look at him.
He's standing right here and then also realizing that the roles have kind of reversed.
And a lot of people now are seeing that they have power over him
because of his conditions, self-imposed or not.
They just don't realize that he doesn't give a fuck.
So they really hold no power over him still.

(01:04:07):
OK, so Meredith, at this point, I think your opinions are pretty clear on it.
It's like you like it. It's absurd.
And I don't disagree with that part.
I think looking back on it more and more, it's like this is a funny movie
in a lot of ways. I love this film.
I should have also prefaced that with like I love this film.
I think it's fantastic.
And that's just yes, I think it's an absurd comedy.

(01:04:28):
No, that's perfect. Give give your case.
Why should anyone watch this movie?
Why should we care?
Why do you think this is, you know, in the echelon of what we're talking about?
It's in the sweet 1616.
And, you know, it's a big contender.
It's been strong for us from fucking day one or day,
whatever it was when it first came across our plates.

(01:04:48):
Yeah, I I think there's a lot of reasons.
One, it is a film that I think Evan and I talk about a lot are films
that are vibes like even if the even if the plot isn't necessarily
super strong or whatever, there is something about the whole piece
that is just a vibe and it is enjoyable to participate in.

(01:05:11):
It's enjoyable to watch.
I think that is one of my biggest reasons that I love this film is that, again,
it is absurd.
It is tonally kind of here and there and whatever.
It is beautifully shot.
It is beautifully acted.
It is exactly what it is.

(01:05:33):
Art that knows what it is and leans super hard into that
is always compelling to watch.
It always makes you want to come back and watch it again, see a new angle.
You know, you want to experience that vibe again and again and again.
And I think that is why it's such a compelling film.
Can't think of a lot of other films like Pig.

(01:05:57):
And I think also in the cage verse perfection,
Cage says maybe 25 words, the entire film, but just his presence
and his being and his ethos is perfect for this film.
Like, I don't know that another actor could have done it,
could have carried this film in the way that he carried the film.
This is one of those films where really kind of put his name back out there

(01:06:21):
as a serious actor coming off all the near straight to DVD films.
Yeah, the schlock years, the left behinds of it all.
But season of The Witch, too.
Oh, season of The Witch.
Up and down. Coming soon.
Yeah, his just presence in this film and his acting very sedate.
I think there's only one full on cage scream in the entire movie

(01:06:41):
when he steals that guy's bike.
Oh, true. And then the other one is like and his anguish scream.
They they mute. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
But no, I like that.
That whole sense that this movie does have a vibe in it.
I think of all these movies we've watched, this is the one that has
really something to say.
Like there is a point to all of it.

(01:07:02):
It's not just it's fun and it's funny and it's very sad at times.
But there is a message behind all of it.
And I think it does hold together really well and really does.
Keep to that core
part of this film.
And again, for a first time director on like Shoestring Budget,
it was very little time to film.

(01:07:22):
Was this the first time?
Oh, yeah. First time feature director. Yep.
Holy shit. Great job.
What was his name, Stan?
Then he went on to direct A Quiet Place Day One,
which is a fucking huge money movie.
Yeah. Sarnowski.
But like Shoestring Budget had very little time to film.
Like one of the reasons Nick Cage stays as banged up as he does
is it was just quicker to keep all the blood and stuff on him

(01:07:45):
rather than like reset for different shots.
I mean, that to me makes it even more impressive.
And it's a first time feature.
Being able to work within all those constraints and be able to really
pull off something like this, I think.
I mean, and maybe this works as well as it does because it was so constrained
just because there was no time for fucking around.
There's no time for reediting and reshoots.
They had to get what they got.

(01:08:06):
And, you know, maybe there are some weird transitions,
but it all works so well.
Yeah, it's a terrific film.
I have nothing to disagree with.
It gets me every time. Yeah.
Meredith, do you have a favorite quote
from this film you would like to share with us?
Fuck Seattle.
It's a good one. Perfect.
When is that? That seems right after Rob picks him up

(01:08:28):
from his dad's place after he like gets kicked out. Right.
Yeah. And that's one of my favorite scenes, actually.
Thinking back on it, that that particular moment is just really sort of sweet
because like there's the funny talk about, you know, Mount Hoods
an active volcano, fuck Seattle.
And then Amir's like, why did we do any of this?
Like, if you can fucking just find the truffles with your tree knowledge,

(01:08:49):
like, what the fuck?
And Cajun's just like, I love her.
And like, that's the core of this whole fucking movie.
And why he even gives a shit is that he loves his pig.
And he's just sad that she's gone because he's had loss in his life.
And it's just like very bleak and identifiable.

(01:09:10):
And just like, oh, fuck.
Yep. And you can see it on Amir's face, too.
It's like, I understand loss because he's lost his mom.
I don't know. I fucking love this movie.
That's all I got to say.
And this movie is really about loss.
And I mean, even thinking back, rewatching this time, like it's bookended
by Rob in his cabin, starting to play the tape that his wife left him.

(01:09:33):
And that movie is with him actually playing it like all of it.
Yes, check out state. Yeah.
So it'll make you sad.
Playing Bruce Springsteen.
What's the lyrics to that song are very problematic.
Yeah, it was definitely an interesting choice to me being like,
if I was talking to my partner and was like the lyrics of I'm on Fire,

(01:09:58):
made me think of you.
Yeah, I would. Great question.
A lot of things, to be fair.
And that's why he caught his sleeve on fire and.
Oh, oh, oh, I'm on fire.
I'm on fire. Yeah.
Let me. He's a chef. It's possible.
It's possible that it happened.

(01:10:20):
Hey, little girl, is your daddy home?
My shirt's on fire and I'm all alone.
Oh, I'm on fire.
Now we have to pay Springsteen. Thanks, Peter.
Yeah. All right. I didn't sing it that well.
It was you changing the lyrics.
It was satire satire satire satire satire all the way.
Parody. It's parody.
Do you have anything that you want to kind of plug here, Meredith,

(01:10:43):
before we sign off?
You can check out my brother Evans in my upcoming podcast.
It is called Brother Sibling Movie.
We talk about movies of different themes.
Every season, many of which we have fond memories of from our childhood.
It's basically us just being absolute fucking ding dongs.
I can't relate.

(01:11:04):
I I know it's this is not the audience
for ding dongs talking about movies.
If you don't like that, why are you here?
And you can find me on Instagram at Blonde Daddy Lives Here.
I don't remember if there are periods or underscores or if it's all one word.
I cannot be bothered to check it.
Seriously, not a clue. There's one person on Instagram whose handle is at long.

(01:11:27):
Daddy lives here. It's me.
Hang out with me. Yes, that's.
Oh, and go vote in November.
That's the other thing I want to plug.
Go vote in November, y'all.
It's very important.
I'm looking forward to being on a brother sibling
movie podcast at some point to talk about Blade Runner
and the time we watched that with your mother.

(01:11:48):
It was awkward.
Oh, Blade Runner Mother, Brother.
Oh, I didn't.
I didn't get to tell my my one joke I had prepared this this week.
That's how fucking out of it I am.
It's OK. Too late now.
Got to save it for next time.
Or not. What is your amazing and funny joke?

(01:12:08):
Oh, I was going to say, since we have you and your brother on,
it's going to be a good old fashioned sibling beat beat off.
That's not even a joke.
That's just fucking disturbing.
Why would you say that?
That's horrifying.
That's not even no.
Do not try and get Evan and I on a fucked up family

(01:12:31):
Pornhub situation, OK?
I will not stand for it.
It's not going to happen.
Don't talk to Nick.
No, I can't figure out how to make it.
Meredith, you're the reason I know the word twin zest.
Thank you. You're welcome.
All right. We're about done here, folks.
Good night. Thanks, man.

(01:12:54):
Well, those were opinions.
Yes. From people who weren't us.
Hope you like that, folks.
I did. I did, too.
Thanks, Evan and Meredith. You guys are great.
Yeah, it was really nice discussing both of these movies with those two.
I'm still like I'm marrying
Meredith's concept of the movie with what with the movie that I've seen.

(01:13:17):
And I'm really enjoying the take that they have on it,
which is which is terrific.
I mean, it's a comedy. Yeah.
A real romp.
But they're absolutely not wrong.
The movie is rife with comedic scenes.
I think it it does help underscore

(01:13:37):
some of the more like human moments
and some of the tenderest moments also have
some of the best comedy or some of the most insightful moments
have some of the best comedy.
Yeah. Well, it's one of those things that I've always liked in like
good storytelling where you use jokes, you use levity to kind of
undercut a tone just enough.

(01:13:59):
So when you do want to have a really serious moment, like at the end,
when he's crying about his pig and the dad's crying about his wife and son,
like you get those moments because you had, you know,
other moments of levity you get to like you get to build to that.
You know, kind of little grow and release and.
And then, of course, 8 millimeter, which I still love so much

(01:14:24):
for like 50 minutes.
And then I'm like, oh, that's right.
This is where the movie is.
Another hour gets rough, not even like emotionally rough,
but just like pacing rough.
Because I mean, you know, me, I can I can watch a movie about porno all day.
That's fine. I'll just watch porno all day.
That doesn't make me a monster.

(01:14:45):
That makes me unemployed.
Yeah. So I guess I'd have to take some time off, but.
But I do.
I love this movie.
I love the the dive that they take and they kind of like wade into it.
But like pretty soon, it like starts escalating so fast in like the world

(01:15:07):
that Max California keeps introducing Wells to.
And it's just like, you know, it's like,
it's like, you know, it's like, you know, it's like, you know,
it's got such a good sort of just palette going for it.
Color and audio and everything that just slightly misses.

(01:15:29):
And once you get to, you know, as I've mentioned,
the the point where it's like, oh, he's he's escaped like
and he runs out like gunshots flying and everything.
And we have to go all the way to, I don't know, some cabin in Connecticut
to cool off, see Cinderella.
Don't worry. She's sweet.

(01:15:50):
She missed him.
And then he runs off to L.A.
No, New York, L.A. back to L.A.
Yeah. He just flies back to the West Coast, hunts, like hunts down a dude,
kills him.
That was a pretty cool scene.
And then we get slow again.
Then he was back to New York to kill the other guy.

(01:16:11):
Yeah. As we go back and there's just too many dips.
And it slogs a bit for me if they had just tightened it up.
Yeah. Just let him take care of all three of them in order.
Like after the main fight, I would have been so cool with that.
Like Eddie on the way to the airport.

(01:16:32):
And you could still have a trunk full of porno.
You wouldn't be burning him in the house.
But like, I don't feel like that ever felt important.
I mean, I think I said this before is and we talked about it with Evan,
just the Batman and Robin of it all, the weird direction
Schumacher's career kind of spun off into.
But then you see something like this.

(01:16:53):
You see, you know, kind of that gritty 90s crime drama.
It's like, oh, you can make a movie.
You can make a well shot movie.
You can do something like with substance.
Sure. He's not a joke director and he's not Michael Bay.
He's not doing the same like schtick.
Yeah, no. And I mean, I just it's one of those things where
especially like the age I was when like Batman and Robin came out.

(01:17:15):
It's just one of those things where it's like, that's what you say Schumacher.
That's what people think now.
And, you know, you tend to forget in the whole of time that his name,
you know, means something because of movies like this. Sure.
So it comes down to it. What moves forward? Primal.
Primal. When when Evan said primal fear, I was just like,

(01:17:36):
oh, I know he said primal fear.
And then at one point, he was talking about something about getting to the core of it.
And I was like, oh, the core.
I would say in terms of our discussions, we did.
It was a lot easier to get off track when it came to a millimeter
and talk about like things like Batman and Robin.
And it was a lot more fun to talk about things like Batman and Robin.

(01:17:57):
I don't think a millimeter can like really stand up to big.
It's a pig is such a beautiful movie that has so much to say and says it so well.
Yeah, I mean, I don't even need to like justify your opinion.
Yeah, I don't need to do any of that.
I've seen both movies.
I'm just going to call it like it is.
And Pig is the better film.

(01:18:18):
And it's no matter how you get to that, it's the correct answer.
Yes. Except for romantic comedy.
It's kind of a love story.
He doesn't fuck the pig, though. No.
Can I can I make my joke for every time we do pig?
You did good, pig.
No. All right.
Cut it, then. Nope.
I'm going to put it in one time.

(01:18:38):
I mean, I only said it one time.
I'm going to put it in one time.
Put it in one time with the volume real.
Yeah. So Pig wins.
Moving forward. Congrats, Pig.
You done good, Pig.
What is the actual phrase?
I think that's it.
No, that'll do.
That'll do. God damn it.

(01:18:58):
Yeah, you fucked it up.
Fuck you. Bye bye.
Do you think? Bye bye.
I believe it is. What a pig.
No, that's Charlotte's Web.
No, it's some pig.
Damn it. You guys are terrible at this.
You can support us on Patreon.
You can find us at Cage Match.
Yeah. Segways aren't that easy.
I know that. Well, I kind of got there.
Also, I just want to go home.

(01:19:20):
So special thanks to our Sparkle buddies Josh, Sean, Josie, Rico, Matt, Adam and Bill.
And to our Cage dancers, Ira, John, Freeman, Lance, Nathan and Cameron.
If you want to talk to us on social media, we are at Cage underscore match underscore pod.
If you want to beat up a former bar cook.
Oh, yeah. Yeah.

(01:19:40):
You can. You worked in restaurants.
I've worked in a bar and various like some fancy good places.
I worked. My first job was at a pita pit.
Oh, yeah. OK. So you can come beat up any of us for money if you want.
But money upfront.
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
You put you put the money on the fucking floor.
Then you get to beat us up for a bit on a timer.

(01:20:01):
Mm hmm. And then we go home. Yeah.
No ass play, though.
You're not my dad.
You're not my dad.
I'm not.
Bye bye.
I always had success using Vine.

(01:20:22):
Yeah, he gives me just a thousand six seconds clips.
Yeah. Fuck you, Nick.
In no particular order.
And he doesn't even put him in a zip file.
It's like, how do you even have I just type what I say?
And that's how I title it. I don't know how Vine works.
I know it's six seconds long and it used to make me laugh.
They were fun. Yeah.
I watched some recently and I was like, holy shit, these people suck at filming shit.
It didn't. You didn't have to do a lot of work when you were doing six seconds.

(01:20:44):
No, I guess now I just expect HBO quality from every bit of media.
You can see. Yeah. Only on the Internet.
Oh, Nick, I heard the story.
Did I tell you my my Portland trip?
Of my wish of pig volcanoes story?
No. So I go to lunch with my coworker.

(01:21:06):
And we're as she showed me around Portland
as I'm looking for places to live and we're going to get lunch.
And she asked, like, what do you want?
I'm like, I could go for some Mexican.
It's like, oh, I want to go to this place.
Porcano. Like what?
It's like Porcano.
And I'm thinking and she's like, Google it.

(01:21:26):
And I'm like, pork.
And I'm trying to like figure out pork volcano is like a single word as a portmanteau.
I would go there. I would, too. I was so excited.
And, you know, my ancestors will be mad at me for this, but we get there.
And the sign is, you know,
as in Spanish for why not?

(01:21:46):
And I was just like.
And her defense, she'd only ever heard about the place.
So and yeah, OK.
But I was just like, oh, now I want a pork volcano.
I do, too.