June 11, 2025 • 54 mins
On the inaugural episode of Canadian Songbook, host Ernesto Cervini rewinds the tape with Barenaked Ladies bassist Jim Creeggan, tracing his authentic, unscripted journey from camp jam sessions and high‑school talent shows to the all‑night dubbing spree that birthed the Yellow Tape. Jim recalls the teachers who nudged him toward jazz, the family choir that kept him grounded, and the friends who cheered every off‑beat experiment. It’s a warm, down‑to‑earth portrait of a working musician whose arena‑sized success still grows from the simple joy of playing music with people he loves.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi. I'm Ernesto Servini. I'm a Canadian drummer
composer from Toronto, Ontario.Growing up, I was exposed to all
kinds of music, from jazz topop, classical to music theater.
My influences were super varied.
Music was all around us, and mymom, my sisters, and I used to
sing together on every car ride.My next guest was on regular
(00:22):
rotation. We had the cassettetape, the yellow tape, by the
Barenaked Ladies, and I canstill sing every lyric from that
EP. In fact, we proved it whilewe were singing along in
Vancouver when the band wasinducted into the Canadian Music
Hall of Fame in 02/2018. Pleasewelcome my guest, Jim Cregan.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Thank you, Ernesto.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Thank you so much for doing this. It's such a
pleasure. When did the yellowtape come out? Was that, like,
in the mid nineties, lateeighties?
Speaker 2 (00:53):
We recorded that initially to get gigs in Toronto
or just to sort of give the clubowners and say, hey. This is us.
So it was five songs and thesame five songs on both sides
because you could Yeah. Just geta duplicate
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Oh, yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
In the in the reproduction process. And so
that would have been probablyrecorded in it's my year
university, half of so, like,09/1990. And then and then I
knew it really had gone farwhen, number one, Sam the record
(01:30):
man was asking us to stock theshelves, and Steve's dad, Vic,
kind of mortgaged his house andstarted to, you know, do like,
stock shelves, and there wasthis demand starting to happen.
It was kind of an exciting timefor independent music because
all of a sudden, there wasenough demand for for us, and
(01:54):
then that sort of also tippeople people off to other
Toronto bands and other Canadianindependent bands. So then there
was a Canadian music section inSam the Record Man and then
which started becoming, youknow, spot in HMB, and it was
like a tape section.
So you can get the tapes of allthese independent Canadian bands
(02:16):
that literally record them youknow, we recorded the yellow
tape from 12AM to 9AM in themorning because that's the cheap
the cheap recording
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Of course it is. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
You know, studio rates. So but every band could
record their own stuff and godown to this tape duplication
place. I remember on KingStreet, and then just and then
they could just walk them intothe record store. And that was
had never really happenedbefore, so it's very
interesting.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Well, I wanted to talk about basically your,
growing up in Canada and how youdiscovered music and your love
for music and, you know, whereyou were inspired and basically
everything that took you up to,you know, like the time I saw
you play at Massey Hall. Right.Everyone was throwing macaroni
(03:09):
and cheese at you and
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
And I'm
Speaker 2 (03:12):
like, what? How did I get here? Why do I have wet
macaroni in my face? What is Ibet. And so I I probably at that
moment, I I retraced my stepsand went, there must be some
reason why I'm getting thrownmacaroni and cheese at me.
Yes. So
Speaker 1 (03:30):
We can re retrace those steps right now.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Yeah. Let's do it. We relive the trauma. And so,
really, I had my family my momwas a piano teacher, and so I
grew up with her teaching pianoto all the neighborhood kids. So
I had music, live music, in myhead all the time.
(03:57):
Most of my music was notnecessarily recorded, which
sometimes is a impediment for mebecause people like their
parents listened to radio thathad lots of songs. Like, Ed
listened to country musicbecause his his family listened
to the country music. Tyler knewall these pop hits, you know,
(04:18):
because his mom listened to AMradio. I was my parents listened
to talk radio, but I always had,like, Bach playing, Chopin
playing from the neighborhoodkids. So not perfectly, but I I
have a feel for live music andalso going to church.
I would be singing vowel sounds,keeping up with whatever melody
(04:42):
and trying harmonies everySunday. And then, that's helped
me later in life because I Istill have this ability to be a
a millisecond behind people whenand and sing harmonies to them.
I don't know. But then the theone of the biggest things was we
had a great music program at ourpublic school, and that was this
(05:05):
great movement. It was DonCoakley and Ernie Meade, these
musicians who got all thesegreat professional musicians
into the schools.
And they would go and they wouldteach, like, five schools in one
day. They would just go aroundand teach one class of strings,
band, or a choir. And thatbecame this whole great thing in
(05:27):
Scarborough where at the end ofschool, all the music students
from these programs would get togo to camp. And that is where I
met Steve, and that's where mybrother Andy met Ed, and that's
how Ed met you know, Ed andSteve knew each other, but
that's where kinda all thismusic started really happening.
The concentration.
(05:48):
It's called Scarborough MusicCamp. And so that sort of that's
where kind of the alchemy reallycame together. And, you know,
we'd have concerts every night.There was dances, but the music
from England, you know, in myschool, you know, it was mostly
like Stairway to Heaven andstuff like that. But at music
(06:08):
camp, the dances we'd havealmost every night would be like
Depeche Mode, would be JoyDivision, would be Orchestral
Maneuvers in the Dark.
So all this music from adifferent kind of more artsy
kind of thing happened. And soand so that was huge. And then
we had a a symphony. SoScarborough Symphony, school
(06:31):
symphony. So I'd play thereevery week and get to play with
really great conductors reallyand play the firebird suite.
Like Yeah. Really get intoStravinsky and having it not not
only listening to it, butinteracting, playing with it,
practicing it, breaking it down,looking at it in different ways,
listening to the violins,practice their part. It was like
(06:53):
it's very, you know, intimateconnection, and that was all
through the schools. And yeah.And so then I think personally,
I had a great high school aswell that the music teacher
Kathy Fraser, we had, like shesupported these variety shows.
(07:14):
Mhmm. So my brother and I, whowas in Verniqui Ladies at for
the five years, we would be thepit band for these variety
shows. So that we had to rise tothe challenge. So one person
wanted to sing Whitney Houston.One person wanted to do a a
modern dance piece from scratch,so we had to compose.
(07:34):
There was you know, we we got toplay our own stuff, so we
explored weather report. We gotto explore Call Me Out, like
like the Graceland was happeningat that time. So we got to check
out, like, African rhythms,like, you know, Central African,
West African. And it was like itwas a really the performances
(07:57):
that came up and theopportunities really we we rose
to those challenges, and thatserved us. It kinda made us live
the music really.
So that became all these toolsthat we used in Barenaked
Ladies.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Yeah. Man, that's great. So I have a couple
questions. Let's I wanna go backto your family for a and growing
up, you know, growing up withyour your brother Andy, do you
have any other siblings?
Speaker 2 (08:25):
My older brother John. He was did the, you know,
if you know the Blues Brothers,he did the the intro to that
intro to the the Blues Brothersalbum. Anyways, he was very
supportive. He was he was aheadof us and he started playing he
(08:47):
played, like, bass before me,and he he was kind of the he
plowed away, but he was kind ofmore excelled in, like, sports
and things like that. Yeah.
And my dad, he he played heplayed by ear, where my mom
studied piano at a KatyUniversity. My dad was and she
(09:09):
studied music history as well.My dad, he learned, like, I love
coffee, I love tea, I think,once.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
Javajive. I
Speaker 2 (09:17):
know Javajive. He he learned that once, and he
learned it by ear in f sharp org flat, whatever you wanna call
it. Yeah. So now everything heplays is in those keys. So key.
And he just played for himselfoften when we were late for
going somewhere. Drive drive mymom crazy. But so and the other
(09:40):
thing is that there was music mymom and dad brought music into
the house because they had acommunity choir called the West
Hills Singers in Scarborough.Yeah. And and so though it would
drive me crazy, every Wednesdaynight, they had a choir practice
and mostly socializing, youknow, and they kept me up at
(10:02):
night.
But I it would again, it was inperson singing. Like, was
people. It it was live music.And I was just so fortunate to
be surrounded by this live musicin many different settings.
Yeah.
It's really, I think, served mewell, and I I try and do that
(10:24):
myself now. I'm trying littlethings I'm trying to recreate.
Like, we have the we call it achoir practice birthday party.
So just invite all your friendsand sing. You know?
Speaker 1 (10:35):
That's amazing. We we did that I I so you met my
sister, Amy Cervini.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Yeah. Oh, that's her sister. Okay.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
Yeah. That's my sister.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Okay. Okay.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
So Cervini. So yeah. Amy is my older sister, and so I
grew up you know, she's amusician as well, and and so I
kinda grew up following what shewas doing. And it was a big part
of the the reason I'm a musicianis because of my two older
sisters who were also studyingmusic.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
There you go.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
But Amy we were I was with Amy on the way to a gig
recently and well, it wasn'trecently. It was a number of
years ago now. But we ended upgetting all these barbershop
tags that we printed out andthen just sight singing
barbershop tags. It was so muchfun.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Yeah. My brother and I still still play. We do the
odd gig here and there, and he'sreally composing. He left the
band to to explore compositionand orchestration, and now
that's he's continuing to dothat. So whenever we play now
that our music that we dotogether has morphed.
So I do a little bit of scoringtoo with strings and things.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
That's awesome. You started playing bass when you
were at the end of elementaryschool or beginning of high
school?
Speaker 2 (11:48):
In grade five.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Grade five?
Speaker 2 (11:50):
At the itinerant music program in Scarborough.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Yeah. So I That's great. So it's very early, and I
I actually started in gradefour. And I remember the day
that they were testing people,like, you know, to see if you
could make it into the program.Yeah.
And I remember the teacher goes,okay. I'm gonna play one note,
and then I'm gonna play a noteafter that. And you tell me if
(12:14):
that note is higher or lower soI couldn't see, you know, when
they were playing it. And I madea guess. Like, I had no idea.
And I maybe I guessed right, andI got in because my my brother
was a bass player ahead of me,so I got to and I was fairly
tall so I could work with this.I could choose a bass. And Yeah.
(12:34):
To me, that was amazing becauseI felt very special because I
could carry it home and it was,like, prove my strengths. You
Speaker 1 (12:41):
know? Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
I But it was, like, it was, like, I was for a while,
I thought I was the only bassplayer in the world because I
didn't know anybody else who didthis.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
Well, I don't think there's a lot of kids in grade
five that play bass. I mean, Icouldn't have carried one when
Speaker 3 (12:55):
I was in grade five. Well, that's
Speaker 2 (12:58):
that's why I I sort of supported the the local
school with their ukuleleprogram with Melody Dome's Yeah.
Ukulele program, and we got abass in there. And now that's a
couple kids accompanying theukulele program. It's so, yeah,
we gotta we gotta keep thoseplant those bass seeds.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
And we also had a acapella quartet that performed
and at the school, at lunchtime,and that was a really fun thing.
That came out of the varietyshows.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
And we actually won rising the rising star youth
Performance Award at the CNE.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
I remember that competition.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Oh, yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
That competition as well. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
1987 was our year.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Nice. That's amazing. What song what was your big hit?
Which song did you do
Speaker 2 (13:52):
to write? We covered the nylons. We called ourselves
the synthetics. Nice. So thesynthetics and we we had moves,
know.
I was like, I was the bass guy,so You know?
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Yeah. We drove my hollow past your house late last
night, all the You know. Yes.Yes. To silhouettes on the shade
I couldn't hide.
There's tears in my eyes. Thosecompetitions were in I remember
(14:33):
being super nervous at those.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
Oh, yeah. I was you're being judged, you know.
And we competed against AlanisMorissette in the the national
competition. She came down fromOttawa.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
And That's amazing.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
I like to think we inspired her to continue her
career and to someday beat us.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
Just that's all it has been since then. She's just
trying to finally
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Just trying to beat synthetics
Speaker 1 (15:00):
in a
Speaker 2 (15:00):
goddamn competition.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Oh, I love that. That's great. It's it's funny
how what a small, you know,community this is where, you you
know, you meet these people thatyou start making music with when
you're, whatever, a teenager,and then, you know, all of
sudden you're in your yourforties and your fifties, and
they're still around, and you'restill making music with them.
And it's like Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
I I think it really is a small world. And I think
sometimes at the beginning,people forget, you know, they
they they don't know it's asmall world yet. And
Speaker 1 (15:34):
Right.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
You end up, you know, you see that person you'll see
that person at a radio stationmaybe in Vancouver but you might
see them in a radio stationthat's in six months in in
Toronto And and especially inCanada, it's it's it seems big
at the beginning, but reallyit's and even in The US in the
(15:57):
industry, like, it's it's yeah.It's it's good to treat people
like you, you know, with respectbecause you're gonna see them
again and Yep.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Absolutely. You know, it's
Speaker 2 (16:09):
it's yeah. That was that was pretty clear early on
after we Yeah. Toured the thecountry a few times and it's a
small world, small community.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Yeah. I I teach at the University of Toronto and I
always remind my students like,you're my students now, but
we're gonna be peers in fiveyears.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Oh, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
You know? And we'll be sharing the stage very soon.
Yeah. Just just be cool. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Know? And I'llbe cool and everything will be
cool.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Yeah. Let's let's the tree will be, you know, just be
be be real. And it's because youare it's hard to acknowledge
your that I think at thebeginning that it's your
community. Hard to understandyou're actually walking into a
new group of people that, youknow, it's what's the most
(17:04):
important thing is support and
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Yeah. Yeah. Think as a young person, it's it's hard
to grasp that because you'recoming out of this world where,
you know, especially when you'regoing into university or
something where you're comingfrom, you know, your family is
your community. And then youhave the group of friends, but
at the end of the day, you allgo home to your family. And then
you enter this this newcommunity that that frankly
(17:28):
becomes, you know, your family.
It's your chosen family asopposed to the one that you are
born with. Yeah. And but I ittakes I think it takes a long
time to be able to see beyondyourself and to realize you you
know what I mean? Like Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
Absolutely. Yeah. Mhmm. And and I think with with
the band, didn't even know thatI'd be spending more than half
my life now with those guys.Yeah.
And, you know, it's it's, youknow, it's it's I'm really proud
of that though, you know, thatwe've gone through so many
(18:03):
changes together and kept goingand kept it positive, kept
supporting each other.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Yeah. If you had advice that you could give to a
young musician, like, growing upin Canada right now, since we're
talking about that thattransition, do you have any
advice you'd give to either ayoung you or just a young, you
know, someone who's in theirlate teens, early twenties.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
You know, my advice to a younger person is find find
the people that you resonatewith and and ask questions, and
don't be afraid to admit youdon't know something. That
that's my younger self that I'dbe talking to.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
Yeah. Right? Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.
My my younger self as well.Yeah. But that's you know, a lot
Speaker 2 (18:51):
lot of people, I think, also with with, you know,
having a career, I feel veryfortunate to have a career in
music. I would say a similarthing is that find the people
that you resonate with, findfind the artists that you
connect with because that'stelling you something. When when
(19:15):
you just feel something whensomebody plays something, they'd
say their original song. Really,really note that that that's
special and follow-up on it andtalk to them, see what's going
on. And and because I thinksocially, I think it's an
important aspect of, you know,moving into a career.
There's certainly, yes,individual practicing. Sure. But
(19:39):
a big component is following andputting yourself alongside a
community of musicians thatinspire you.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
Yes. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
I think that's the biggest thing because I I feel
like I was fortunate that I didfind some people that I that
kinda blew my mind, really, andI was so fortunate to be with
them. We carried forward. Andtheir strengths, you know,
helped move the the band forwardin some ways, and my strengths
helped to move the band forwardin other ways. You know? Yeah.
(20:12):
Harmonically, musically, I'd hada little more experience than
the other guys. But songwritingwise, those guys, you know, they
really were had were werepulling me along. And so now I'm
like I I feel like I'm reallyjust starting to really feel
like, yes, I can stand by thatsong I just wrote. You know? I
(20:34):
mean, I there I'm not proud ofall the songs along the way, but
I feel like, you know, if youcan collectives are often I feel
like there's this feeling likeyou gotta make it yourself or,
you know, you it's all about youin but I think there's a little
more attention to how you engagewith other people.
(20:56):
I think it's a big thing. Yeah.And support other and accept
support. It's like
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I wanted to ask you about because
you you mentioned before thatthat you kinda met the guys at
that Scarborough Music Camp. Didyou do a lot of music camps
growing up or did you do anyother music camp?
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Every year. Oh, no. I mean, that one was the only one
I ever did. But it was likethere was a two two sessions at
the end of the year, one eachone a week long, and I did both.
Yeah.
So and we were all mentorsthere, and we were, you know, we
got to be take be a a mentor ina cabin for younger kids and
(21:38):
Yeah. Learn some leadershipskills. And it was it was an
amazing thing. I got to I got toplay with the teacher band. We
remember playing the chicken.
You know? Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
Electric?
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Yeah. Played it on electric bass.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Yeah. Because they knew I played it. Yeah. So they
knew I played it. And then itwas like, I got to play with
these, like, heavy players.
Like Yeah. They were reallyawesome players. I wanna see if
somebody could pull up some ofthe names. Chris. I'm mixing it
(22:16):
up with another friend of mine,Chris.
Anyways, Chris and Trimbonus waswith me.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
I just remember all these guys. They're just
amazing.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
Of course. Yeah. Yep. That's that's great. And so then
you ended up going to U of T.
So were you Yeah. At U of T forclassical? Or
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Yes. I was at U of T and for classic, you know,
double bass performance.Basically, the the program is
designed to really give you theskills to have a professional
career as a symphonic bassplayer primarily. Absolutely.
And so that's where I was going,and I studied under Thomas
(22:53):
Monahan.
Uh-huh. And that was reallygreat two years where I got to
and I still keep in touch withthe friends that I made and
collaborate with from that time,like Mark Fuhr, a violinist.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
We Yeah. Yeah. I know Mark.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Yeah. We just he played on some Barenaked Lady
records and just the most recentone. He played with me and my
brother. Rob Carley, another guythat I really connected with
there and continue tocollaborate with. And he's, you
know, is he's one of the mostprolific composers right now and
and arrangers in in Canada.
(23:29):
And, you know, I'd just know himas should've heard some of the
silly songs we made in inuniversity. And I would say that
if I had to talk to someonewho's in that situation, again,
like, as in my younger self inuniversity, the most important
thing that I feel I did was Icollaborated with a student
(23:50):
composer. She came to me lookingfor a a double bass player to
play with a a duet with a cello,and she had a piece. And so we
did it. We interpreted it.
It was a contemporary piece. Andthat whole process is what I
continue to do in just differentall different kind of styles of
(24:10):
music. And I feel like that wasjust one thing. It wasn't in the
curriculum. It was just sort ofa side thing.
But it was being in thatenvironment and being able to
have a chance to work andcollaborate was was amazing. The
symphonies, we playedStravinsky's Symphony Symphony
of Psalms, Psalm 29, full choir,almost like double orchestra.
(24:33):
Like, it was phenomenal. And I Ifeel like in some ways, the
sensibilities that I was exposedto and experienced is something
that it's like I've always triedto find that Indian in the
smallest pop setup or with theband. Like, it's almost like you
(24:54):
find, like, wine people.
Like, they really know reallygood wine. Because they've been
exposed to it and theyunderstand it, they researched
it. And so same with music, Ifeel if you're exposed to it and
you can connect with it, then itgives you like something on the
shelf that like you're alwaystrying to like, oh, wait a
(25:15):
minute. What was that? What wasthat feeling?
It's like a feeling you're goingfor. Like, it can be deeper. It
we can go for beauty in everymoment. So I feel like musically
that was a huge thing that I putin my backpack, being exposed to
the symphony. And now I I goback and I just go to the
(25:36):
symphony and like means evenmore, you know.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
It's it's so great because you're talking about all
these like really special. Imean, it all comes back to
community. Right? These amazingteachers and these amazing
people that you met, you know,that you're still making music
with and and I think it's it'ssuch a I mean, I think that's
why what we what we do is sospecial. Why why being being
able to create music and makemusic with people is such a I I,
(26:04):
you know, I always feel sofortunate that I'm able to do
You know?
It's like
Speaker 2 (26:09):
I feel so too. And I feel like the more I look
around, the more I I see thatit's the music is is in a way
it's a really heightened orimmersive experience with
working with people, unlessyou're a soloist, you know,
played by yourself. But the Ifeel like that situation can
(26:33):
inform other situations whereyou're working with people. So I
feel like in I got unfortunateyou and I are fortunate to do it
as a as a living, but to join acommunity choir and just get
that feeling of singing withpeople. And also and then you
can bring that to your job orbring that to your family and
(26:55):
just like you know, that you canfind this way of engaging with
people in an intimate way withmusic and then Right.
Allow that to inform the rest ofyour life. Yeah. But I think
that I'm really all for kindawhat my parents introduced,
which was singing for community,singing for life, playing music
(27:17):
for life for yourself, you know,with the others by yourselves.
Like, my son now, you know, heplays guitar as stress relief.
You know?
He's he he he never reallygrabbed on to, like, you know,
music lessons and all that, youknow, like, what I was into,
like, really going for it. Buthe has very talented and he he
(27:39):
found a space where it's inbetween studying for heavy exams
in university, reaches for theguitar, you know? Yeah. Yeah.
And it's it gives them a break.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
So speaking of of other bands, like, what were the
most what was what were yourfavorite bands growing up? And
and especially if if you had anyfavorite Canadian bands growing
up.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
I would say that oh, it's very simple because we
didn't have as much music. Wehad Sure. Maybe a record and
limited choice. So it was mybands that I was into was April
one. Mhmm.
I had that one record, Enter theBeast, I think it was called.
(28:26):
But, you know,
Speaker 1 (28:33):
Say hello. Say hello out now.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
Compositionally awesome pop Yeah. Rock music.
And, of course, Rush wasalongside of that was, you know,
I was a huge Geddy Lee fan and,you know, air based. My brothers
would we we were three of threebrothers and our you know, so we
each one guy with Andy was NeilPeart and John was Alex Leifson.
(29:06):
I was Geddy Lee.
Yeah. And so I guess from fromRush, I continued on to well, I
mentioned the nylons. Right?
Speaker 1 (29:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
So I was really into the nylons and and acapella
music. You know, I was into HueyLewis. And then in high school,
I got into really into a lot of,like, rockabilly and, well,
swing music, like, AmericanGraffiti swing swing music and
got you know, went to go see thefour lads and but yeah. Like,
(29:43):
Paul Anka, you know, this realswing music. And then and then
from there, yeah, it was likePaul Simon and Blacksmith Laiden
Leeswicke Black Mambazo.
My band covered all that stuff.And so yeah. Like no. It's the
(30:03):
Downchild Blues band.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
Doing it right on the wrong side of town. Anyways,
sling music. You know? And andand so that's that's kinda,
like, really the beginning. Andthen I then I started exploring
jazz and was until, like, PhilNimmin's and Mo Kaufman went to
see him at the Spaghetti House.
And then one night, we went andlet the spaghetti I it wasn't
(30:29):
the spaghetti fact what was it?It was like a deli. Georgia's
Spaghetti House.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
Georgia's Spaghetti House. Yeah. And then they had a
Speaker 2 (30:37):
deli in Yorkville, and I remember when I saw we
went, let's go to it's cold.Watch jazz till 3AM in the
morning. Okay. Yeah. And Iremember seeing these players
just jamming, and I just waslike, I wanna do that.
And Jim Jim Vivian was a hugehero of mine. I just loved his
playing very melodic and groovy.And then he and then let's talk
(31:01):
about the shuffle demons.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
Oh, yes.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
Oh my god. Oh, yes. So the shuffle demons, man. And
and just so funny, it's fullcircle, is I played with Richard
Underhill yesterday at thefarmer's market, and we've met
at we love shopping at farmer'smarkets, and we met, and he let
me play with him. But
Speaker 1 (31:19):
That's awesome.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
Jim Vivian, you know, Richard Underhill, Mike Murley,
those guys, Perry White, youknow, they they were a window
and a doorway, a portal into amusic again that really just
blew my mind because it it theytook the harmony and they just
(31:41):
blew the ceiling off of it. Andso atonal music and energy and
free playing started became intomy world. Right. And I later,
you know, explored that with BobWiseman when he opened for us on
the Barenaked Lady tour. We'dsit in and play.
We'd we were doing all the allthe theaters. So sometimes three
(32:03):
days in a row in a theater,Halifax or, you know, Brunswick,
Saint John's, Moncton, andthey'd have a piano, and we just
ask if we could play. And wejust played for hours just free
playing. Yeah. So and that sortof was tipped off by the shuffle
demons.
And then I met Bob who wasreally exploring Keith Jarrett
in open play. And and so that tome was, you know, talk about
(32:28):
influence and just really, like,again, hearing it's getting back
to that point of, like, hearingsomething that resonates with
you or maybe just makes youcurious and then following that
and asking some questions.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
I think that's the most important part, right? When
your interest is peaked, go.Like, go with it. Follow it.
Don't forget about that feeling.
So even if you even if youcan't, you know, follow
something right away, justkeeping that in mind. I mean,
like, This is that's somethingI'm really interested in. I'm
gonna remember to, like, youknow, pursue that whenever I can
(33:11):
and
Speaker 2 (33:11):
It means something. And sometimes it's just a very
small feeling and it could befleeting, but if you can just
remember, oh, wait a minute.There's something happened
there.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
It's so it's so awesome for me to hear you
mentioning these guys who arealso my heroes and people like I
remember going
Speaker 2 (33:28):
to see
Speaker 1 (33:28):
the shuffle demons at night when they had that
remember those New Year's Evefestivals they had in Toronto?
Speaker 2 (33:37):
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
And and so I you know, the the demons were, like,
leading the parade doing Spadinabus, and I was I was, whatever,
nine years old. I was like, ohmy god. I love them. They're so
great. And it was opening mymind to Yes.
To jazz
Speaker 2 (33:51):
So awesome.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
How fun music can be and just this this sense of
community. I was like, oh mygod. They're writing songs about
Toronto. And then, you know, andthen I'm discovering the
Barenaked Ladies. My god.
They're writing songs about Thisis like understand this. I I
yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
It's just such an amazing facts.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
Yeah. Such such an amazing feeling.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
Another guy another guy, just we just had one is
George Collar. Yeah. GeorgeCollar. He he he, you know, he
played with the shuffle demonsas well. And he, you know, he
said, hey, man.
Let's get together. You know?And we did we did the same
thing. We went got two basestogether, and we just played
Speaker 1 (34:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
Free for Yeah. Hours and hours. And and we did did it
once, but wow. What a niceperson to kind of like take a
young guy and go, hey, man.Let's just play.
You know? And it was happenedonce, but it it was like
pivotal.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
I wanted to bring this now to just talk about the
song that that I fell in lovewith by the Barenaked Ladies,
which is When I Fall.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
I love that too. I love that one.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
So I I now I fell in love with it off of the live
album, off of Rock Spectacle. Idon't know why specifically that
version over the album. I thinkit's just that's the one that
ended up on my playlist that II've been listening to for the
last twenty five years. So Yeah.You know?
Speaker 2 (35:18):
Well, it's well, what's cool about it what's cool
about it being on the liverecord is you're really getting,
you know, the bare bones of ofthe band playing. And I and,
really, they're actually, theoriginal is not that off the the
studio version is not thatdifferent. Similar. But I think
that song really can it's it canreally just stand on its own
(35:44):
with really simple parts. And II as a bass player, you know,
this is the album that mybrother was not in the band.
So I really felt a lot of I feltlike I needed to kinda step up
melodically as a musician, but Iwas, you know, the bass player.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
And then as the song is very circular song, so the
the the chords kind of are inthis revolving circle, and it
gave me a chance to kind ofchange the foundation of it as
it went to to develop to to toprogress the song. And it became
(36:32):
it it really I'm really proud ofhow that it sort of opens up,
sort of blossoms as the songgoes on, as the guy is singing
about being a window washer andjust completely scared of
falling, but wondering whatwould be like Yeah. To fall.
Like, he was exploring thesethis reality and and then
(36:56):
reflecting on his life aboutdeath and the deaths of his
grandfather. What would youknow, what does that mean?
How does that affect his howdoes that weigh against his life
right now? And it's almost likethis contemplation of, you know,
falling and losing control,losing control of your life. And
(37:18):
this and but in the same time,sort of being grateful for it at
the same time. That's what Itake from the song anyways. And
so yeah.
Very I I mean, I actually couldtell you where I got I realized
that that's how to progresssomething was when I was in U of
(37:40):
T. Is this okay if I like, I'mjust drawing connections. I was
in a I don't know. It's kind ofin a hack around sort of jazz
combo, but the it was the yearbefore the U of T had a jazz
program. So they were auditionauditioning deans for to lead
(38:01):
the program.
And so they got they turned alittle audition. They used my
band as the audition band, andthey had a it was like a master
class with a potential dean. Andhis name was Dean, but I forget
his last name. But anyways, hehe he told me like, hey. When
you're playing, you know, if youwanna create a little more
(38:21):
intensity, you know, just whatcan you do?
Maybe a more little morerhythmic intensity, little more
action, little activity, Youknow? Or you could also do that
by going up and register. Maybethat maybe that can create,
like, that that movement goingup is something you can you as a
bass player can do to move thispiece forward. And I used it
(38:45):
right in that song. I used it inarranging Eid.
Like, we arranged if you listento that, all that is about this.
More rhythmic intensity and moreand going up at pitch, like and
adding more harmony. You know?It's and so it's like, it's
amazing these little moments ofthat you grab and then how it
(39:05):
plays out later in, you know, inthe action.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
So so when someone brought in a tune, so someone
brings in a tune to the band,like, because you are a
collective, is it the kind ofthing where someone brings in a
tune and then it's just itbecomes the band's baby and
everyone kind of gives their oris it more like composer?
Speaker 2 (39:29):
Does it become the band's
Speaker 1 (39:30):
baby by the You
Speaker 2 (39:33):
don't know. And that's the kind of the
insecurity of bringing it to theband is that you what makes it a
band is that everybody has to bestand by a song that's on that
record. Like, they have to findthemselves in it. And sometimes
that song's not gonna make it.You might might be your favorite
(39:53):
song and might might not makeit.
But everybody's usually just theprocess is about caring about
that song and and finding waysto bring it out and make it
shine. And so I think that'ssomething it's that the band's
already been always been reallygood at is going in and digging
(40:14):
in and finding a way. You know?There's a story that Tom Petty I
heard him on a podcast orsomething or some interview
where he was talking aboutbringing a song to the band, and
the heartbreakers would get intheir in their workshop and ask,
why don't we do this? Maybe wecut that, you know, cut a couple
bars off that, you know, changethe key.
(40:35):
And he just said, like, doesanybody think this is a good
song? You know, it's Tom Fetti.Right? Is that like, does
anybody think this is good?Like, because they didn't go,
oh, man.
I love this song.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
They're like, working there right away. Like, how can
we what can we do? How can wemold this?
Speaker 2 (40:58):
Yeah. How can we bring this out? Yeah. And so
with when I fall, it was I lovedthe song already. Like, it was a
very like, it was something thatSteve and Ed really have like, I
could tell.
Like, it was it was just theyput something more into this
one, and and I really wanted tohonor that.
Speaker 1 (41:16):
Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
Well, I actually, I you know, you sent me the song.
You guys did. I really I reallylove what you did because you
you found a a the cyclical chordprogression and and sort of
allowed that to to keep keeprevolving, And and it it was
very trance y. I love that youdid that because, yeah, I I love
(41:40):
that aspect of it too. Like, Ifind in as a especially as a
bass player rhythm section, oneof my biggest jobs is to create
a feeling or a state of trancein the music so that so that the
melody can kind of be this sortof stream of consciousness, this
sort of stream of of leading abody that is in motion.
Speaker 1 (42:07):
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I ended up putting
putting the melody in the bass,not you know, just because I
don't know. Kinda felt like oneof those where it was like, it's
such a beautiful I don't know.
It's such a beautiful melody andthe horns always get the melody,
but no. Why not just get get letthe bass play the melody and
just have the horns kind of likeplay pads in the background and
(42:29):
let let the let the bass reallysing. You know, the bass is such
a beautiful instrument.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
It's a it's a very it's a basic instrument. So it's
the simplest almost. So when themelody goes in it, it's very
humble. Right. It's a humbleinstrument to to represent the
melody, I find.
And that's another thing is thatyou're you're instrumental band.
You know? How do you that's awhole other challenge because
(42:55):
you get one big part of the songthat's now not being
represented. So how do youcontinue how do you continue
that? Like, find the theemotional I find that's a big
challenge is to findinstrumentally nuances
emotionally.
Right.
Speaker 1 (43:14):
Yeah. Absolutely. I think, I mean, that that is
always the challenge is istrying to to because I you know,
obviously with this song, I havea huge emotional connection to
it just from, you know, havinglistened to it for my whole
life, basically, and just eversince it came out. And so it's
trying to get that that love ofthis music and the the respect
(43:38):
for it across. I think, youknow, basically, I I'm always
trying to just present things asI don't know.
I mean, as I think honoring theparts that I really find
beautiful, you know, and makingsure that like in this song,
Speaker 2 (43:58):
it's Right.
Speaker 1 (43:58):
Like that melody is is is beautiful and the way it
the way it sits on the changesis is really beautiful. And so I
thought, okay. Well, I'm gonnawrite Mhmm. They try and
highlight this melody by makinglike, piano is not even in. The
piano I think on the track, hedoesn't the piano doesn't come
in until the bridge.
But the song starts with atrombone solo just over bass.
(44:22):
And and so it's just like, itstarts super mellow, then and
then the changes don't reallycome in, or at least they're not
filled out for, like, two orthree minutes. It's just like,
you know, trying to keep it niceand sparse. Yeah. And just And
and and we kinda made it youknow, get a little gospel feel
and
Speaker 2 (44:41):
Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know what? I yeah. I could see
that.
I mean, he's talking he'stalking about, you know, these
soul searching. Yeah. You know?I could see that. Boldly.
Speaker 1 (44:53):
Well, I I just wanna thank you so much for, you know,
in well, inspiring me andinspiring a whole generation of
musicians, you know, over I youknow, because and especially the
fact that, you know, as a as ayoung music nerd myself, having
a band that I could that I,like, totally you know, my
(45:16):
favorite bands in grade eightwere the Barenaked Ladies and
Guns N' Roses. And you couldn'tbe more different than the
Barenaked Ladies and Guns N'Roses, but I was Yeah. So
passionate about both. You know?And Yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:29):
Oh, love patience. I love patience.
Speaker 3 (45:31):
So great.
Speaker 2 (45:32):
Love when I came in.
Speaker 1 (45:32):
So great. So thank and thank you for coming on
today and and chatting with meabout, you know.
Speaker 2 (45:39):
Oh, it's my pleasure. I will I yeah. I would love to
keep the conversation going. Ithink the more I wouldn't even
you know, just hearing how youryour attachment to the song, I
mean, that really makes it, youknow, something that recorded in
1993 or '94. And hearing youbring it, you know, and ex
(46:02):
exploring your connection to it,it's like Yeah.
It keeps it alive. It keeps,again, those small feelings,
like, sometimes we forget. Like,I know? And then you bring it
back, and I'm thinking about thethe room, you know, where we
recorded the and the feeling andthe of working with the people
(46:23):
there, Michael Phillip, Voivoda.I'm just I'm going back there.
And and I'll just hearing theway, you know, you're talking
about it and just the context ofhow you were listening to it
with your family and, you know,the high school, you know, and
yeah. It's it's great. I I loveI love I think it's all part
Speaker 1 (46:42):
of it. Community and and, you know, supporting each
other and and lifting each otherYeah. And inspiring each other.
I mean, that's the name of thegame. Right?
That's that's Yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:56):
Yeah. Well, I'm playing at the Farmer's market,
Trinity Bellwoods, Tuesday.Bring your bring your There you
go. Drumsticks.
Speaker 1 (47:04):
Yeah. Well, that's yeah.
Speaker 3 (47:06):
There you go. That sounds amazing.
Speaker 2 (47:08):
Actually, I was I'm not running the show. It's not
my gig. It's Richard Underhill.
Speaker 1 (47:12):
So send a text to Rich. Be like, hey, man. Who's
playing? Who's drumming? What doyou what Yeah.
Who's playing, man? Exactly.Great. Well, thank you so much.
And and hopefully, you know,obviously, it'd be it'd be a
blast to make music together atsome point for sure.
But but Yeah. Yeah. Thank youfor doing this and thanks for
everything and we'll chat againsometime soon, hope.
Speaker 2 (47:35):
Nice chatting, Ernesto. Take care. Alright.
Speaker 1 (54:16):
Great. Yeah. That was beautiful. Yeah. It was a good
take.
Hi. I'm Ernesto Servini. I'm a Canadian drummer
composer from Toronto, Ontario.Growing up, I was exposed to all
kinds of music, from jazz topop, classical to music theater.
My influences were super varied.
Music was all around us, and mymom, my sisters, and I used to
sing together on every car ride.My next guest was on regular
(00:22):
rotation. We had the cassettetape, the yellow tape, by the
Barenaked Ladies, and I canstill sing every lyric from that
EP. In fact, we proved it whilewe were singing along in
Vancouver when the band wasinducted into the Canadian Music
Hall of Fame in 02/2018. Pleasewelcome my guest, Jim Cregan.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Thank you, Ernesto.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Thank you so much for doing this. It's such a
pleasure. When did the yellowtape come out? Was that, like,
in the mid nineties, lateeighties?
Speaker 2 (00:53):
We recorded that initially to get gigs in Toronto
or just to sort of give the clubowners and say, hey. This is us.
So it was five songs and thesame five songs on both sides
because you could Yeah. Just geta duplicate
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Oh, yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
In the in the reproduction process. And so
that would have been probablyrecorded in it's my year
university, half of so, like,09/1990. And then and then I
knew it really had gone farwhen, number one, Sam the record
(01:30):
man was asking us to stock theshelves, and Steve's dad, Vic,
kind of mortgaged his house andstarted to, you know, do like,
stock shelves, and there wasthis demand starting to happen.
It was kind of an exciting timefor independent music because
all of a sudden, there wasenough demand for for us, and
(01:54):
then that sort of also tippeople people off to other
Toronto bands and other Canadianindependent bands. So then there
was a Canadian music section inSam the Record Man and then
which started becoming, youknow, spot in HMB, and it was
like a tape section.
So you can get the tapes of allthese independent Canadian bands
(02:16):
that literally record them youknow, we recorded the yellow
tape from 12AM to 9AM in themorning because that's the cheap
the cheap recording
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Of course it is. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
You know, studio rates. So but every band could
record their own stuff and godown to this tape duplication
place. I remember on KingStreet, and then just and then
they could just walk them intothe record store. And that was
had never really happenedbefore, so it's very
interesting.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Well, I wanted to talk about basically your,
growing up in Canada and how youdiscovered music and your love
for music and, you know, whereyou were inspired and basically
everything that took you up to,you know, like the time I saw
you play at Massey Hall. Right.Everyone was throwing macaroni
(03:09):
and cheese at you and
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
And I'm
Speaker 2 (03:12):
like, what? How did I get here? Why do I have wet
macaroni in my face? What is Ibet. And so I I probably at that
moment, I I retraced my stepsand went, there must be some
reason why I'm getting thrownmacaroni and cheese at me.
Yes. So
Speaker 1 (03:30):
We can re retrace those steps right now.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Yeah. Let's do it. We relive the trauma. And so,
really, I had my family my momwas a piano teacher, and so I
grew up with her teaching pianoto all the neighborhood kids. So
I had music, live music, in myhead all the time.
(03:57):
Most of my music was notnecessarily recorded, which
sometimes is a impediment for mebecause people like their
parents listened to radio thathad lots of songs. Like, Ed
listened to country musicbecause his his family listened
to the country music. Tyler knewall these pop hits, you know,
(04:18):
because his mom listened to AMradio. I was my parents listened
to talk radio, but I always had,like, Bach playing, Chopin
playing from the neighborhoodkids. So not perfectly, but I I
have a feel for live music andalso going to church.
I would be singing vowel sounds,keeping up with whatever melody
(04:42):
and trying harmonies everySunday. And then, that's helped
me later in life because I Istill have this ability to be a
a millisecond behind people whenand and sing harmonies to them.
I don't know. But then the theone of the biggest things was we
had a great music program at ourpublic school, and that was this
(05:05):
great movement. It was DonCoakley and Ernie Meade, these
musicians who got all thesegreat professional musicians
into the schools.
And they would go and they wouldteach, like, five schools in one
day. They would just go aroundand teach one class of strings,
band, or a choir. And thatbecame this whole great thing in
(05:27):
Scarborough where at the end ofschool, all the music students
from these programs would get togo to camp. And that is where I
met Steve, and that's where mybrother Andy met Ed, and that's
how Ed met you know, Ed andSteve knew each other, but
that's where kinda all thismusic started really happening.
The concentration.
(05:48):
It's called Scarborough MusicCamp. And so that sort of that's
where kind of the alchemy reallycame together. And, you know,
we'd have concerts every night.There was dances, but the music
from England, you know, in myschool, you know, it was mostly
like Stairway to Heaven andstuff like that. But at music
(06:08):
camp, the dances we'd havealmost every night would be like
Depeche Mode, would be JoyDivision, would be Orchestral
Maneuvers in the Dark.
So all this music from adifferent kind of more artsy
kind of thing happened. And soand so that was huge. And then
we had a a symphony. SoScarborough Symphony, school
(06:31):
symphony. So I'd play thereevery week and get to play with
really great conductors reallyand play the firebird suite.
Like Yeah. Really get intoStravinsky and having it not not
only listening to it, butinteracting, playing with it,
practicing it, breaking it down,looking at it in different ways,
listening to the violins,practice their part. It was like
(06:53):
it's very, you know, intimateconnection, and that was all
through the schools. And yeah.And so then I think personally,
I had a great high school aswell that the music teacher
Kathy Fraser, we had, like shesupported these variety shows.
(07:14):
Mhmm. So my brother and I, whowas in Verniqui Ladies at for
the five years, we would be thepit band for these variety
shows. So that we had to rise tothe challenge. So one person
wanted to sing Whitney Houston.One person wanted to do a a
modern dance piece from scratch,so we had to compose.
(07:34):
There was you know, we we got toplay our own stuff, so we
explored weather report. We gotto explore Call Me Out, like
like the Graceland was happeningat that time. So we got to check
out, like, African rhythms,like, you know, Central African,
West African. And it was like itwas a really the performances
(07:57):
that came up and theopportunities really we we rose
to those challenges, and thatserved us. It kinda made us live
the music really.
So that became all these toolsthat we used in Barenaked
Ladies.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Yeah. Man, that's great. So I have a couple
questions. Let's I wanna go backto your family for a and growing
up, you know, growing up withyour your brother Andy, do you
have any other siblings?
Speaker 2 (08:25):
My older brother John. He was did the, you know,
if you know the Blues Brothers,he did the the intro to that
intro to the the Blues Brothersalbum. Anyways, he was very
supportive. He was he was aheadof us and he started playing he
(08:47):
played, like, bass before me,and he he was kind of the he
plowed away, but he was kind ofmore excelled in, like, sports
and things like that. Yeah.
And my dad, he he played heplayed by ear, where my mom
studied piano at a KatyUniversity. My dad was and she
(09:09):
studied music history as well.My dad, he learned, like, I love
coffee, I love tea, I think,once.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
Javajive. I
Speaker 2 (09:17):
know Javajive. He he learned that once, and he
learned it by ear in f sharp org flat, whatever you wanna call
it. Yeah. So now everything heplays is in those keys. So key.
And he just played for himselfoften when we were late for
going somewhere. Drive drive mymom crazy. But so and the other
(09:40):
thing is that there was music mymom and dad brought music into
the house because they had acommunity choir called the West
Hills Singers in Scarborough.Yeah. And and so though it would
drive me crazy, every Wednesdaynight, they had a choir practice
and mostly socializing, youknow, and they kept me up at
(10:02):
night.
But I it would again, it was inperson singing. Like, was
people. It it was live music.And I was just so fortunate to
be surrounded by this live musicin many different settings.
Yeah.
It's really, I think, served mewell, and I I try and do that
(10:24):
myself now. I'm trying littlethings I'm trying to recreate.
Like, we have the we call it achoir practice birthday party.
So just invite all your friendsand sing. You know?
Speaker 1 (10:35):
That's amazing. We we did that I I so you met my
sister, Amy Cervini.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Yeah. Oh, that's her sister. Okay.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
Yeah. That's my sister.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Okay. Okay.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
So Cervini. So yeah. Amy is my older sister, and so I
grew up you know, she's amusician as well, and and so I
kinda grew up following what shewas doing. And it was a big part
of the the reason I'm a musicianis because of my two older
sisters who were also studyingmusic.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
There you go.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
But Amy we were I was with Amy on the way to a gig
recently and well, it wasn'trecently. It was a number of
years ago now. But we ended upgetting all these barbershop
tags that we printed out andthen just sight singing
barbershop tags. It was so muchfun.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Yeah. My brother and I still still play. We do the
odd gig here and there, and he'sreally composing. He left the
band to to explore compositionand orchestration, and now
that's he's continuing to dothat. So whenever we play now
that our music that we dotogether has morphed.
So I do a little bit of scoringtoo with strings and things.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
That's awesome. You started playing bass when you
were at the end of elementaryschool or beginning of high
school?
Speaker 2 (11:48):
In grade five.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Grade five?
Speaker 2 (11:50):
At the itinerant music program in Scarborough.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Yeah. So I That's great. So it's very early, and I
I actually started in gradefour. And I remember the day
that they were testing people,like, you know, to see if you
could make it into the program.Yeah.
And I remember the teacher goes,okay. I'm gonna play one note,
and then I'm gonna play a noteafter that. And you tell me if
(12:14):
that note is higher or lower soI couldn't see, you know, when
they were playing it. And I madea guess. Like, I had no idea.
And I maybe I guessed right, andI got in because my my brother
was a bass player ahead of me,so I got to and I was fairly
tall so I could work with this.I could choose a bass. And Yeah.
(12:34):
To me, that was amazing becauseI felt very special because I
could carry it home and it was,like, prove my strengths. You
Speaker 1 (12:41):
know? Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
I But it was, like, it was, like, I was for a while,
I thought I was the only bassplayer in the world because I
didn't know anybody else who didthis.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
Well, I don't think there's a lot of kids in grade
five that play bass. I mean, Icouldn't have carried one when
Speaker 3 (12:55):
I was in grade five. Well, that's
Speaker 2 (12:58):
that's why I I sort of supported the the local
school with their ukuleleprogram with Melody Dome's Yeah.
Ukulele program, and we got abass in there. And now that's a
couple kids accompanying theukulele program. It's so, yeah,
we gotta we gotta keep thoseplant those bass seeds.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
And we also had a acapella quartet that performed
and at the school, at lunchtime,and that was a really fun thing.
That came out of the varietyshows.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
And we actually won rising the rising star youth
Performance Award at the CNE.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
I remember that competition.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Oh, yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
That competition as well. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
1987 was our year.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Nice. That's amazing. What song what was your big hit?
Which song did you do
Speaker 2 (13:52):
to write? We covered the nylons. We called ourselves
the synthetics. Nice. So thesynthetics and we we had moves,
know.
I was like, I was the bass guy,so You know?
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Yeah. We drove my hollow past your house late last
night, all the You know. Yes.Yes. To silhouettes on the shade
I couldn't hide.
There's tears in my eyes. Thosecompetitions were in I remember
(14:33):
being super nervous at those.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
Oh, yeah. I was you're being judged, you know.
And we competed against AlanisMorissette in the the national
competition. She came down fromOttawa.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
And That's amazing.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
I like to think we inspired her to continue her
career and to someday beat us.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
Just that's all it has been since then. She's just
trying to finally
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Just trying to beat synthetics
Speaker 1 (15:00):
in a
Speaker 2 (15:00):
goddamn competition.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Oh, I love that. That's great. It's it's funny
how what a small, you know,community this is where, you you
know, you meet these people thatyou start making music with when
you're, whatever, a teenager,and then, you know, all of
sudden you're in your yourforties and your fifties, and
they're still around, and you'restill making music with them.
And it's like Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
I I think it really is a small world. And I think
sometimes at the beginning,people forget, you know, they
they they don't know it's asmall world yet. And
Speaker 1 (15:34):
Right.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
You end up, you know, you see that person you'll see
that person at a radio stationmaybe in Vancouver but you might
see them in a radio stationthat's in six months in in
Toronto And and especially inCanada, it's it's it seems big
at the beginning, but reallyit's and even in The US in the
(15:57):
industry, like, it's it's yeah.It's it's good to treat people
like you, you know, with respectbecause you're gonna see them
again and Yep.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Absolutely. You know, it's
Speaker 2 (16:09):
it's yeah. That was that was pretty clear early on
after we Yeah. Toured the thecountry a few times and it's a
small world, small community.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Yeah. I I teach at the University of Toronto and I
always remind my students like,you're my students now, but
we're gonna be peers in fiveyears.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Oh, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
You know? And we'll be sharing the stage very soon.
Yeah. Just just be cool. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Know? And I'llbe cool and everything will be
cool.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Yeah. Let's let's the tree will be, you know, just be
be be real. And it's because youare it's hard to acknowledge
your that I think at thebeginning that it's your
community. Hard to understandyou're actually walking into a
new group of people that, youknow, it's what's the most
(17:04):
important thing is support and
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Yeah. Yeah. Think as a young person, it's it's hard
to grasp that because you'recoming out of this world where,
you know, especially when you'regoing into university or
something where you're comingfrom, you know, your family is
your community. And then youhave the group of friends, but
at the end of the day, you allgo home to your family. And then
you enter this this newcommunity that that frankly
(17:28):
becomes, you know, your family.
It's your chosen family asopposed to the one that you are
born with. Yeah. And but I ittakes I think it takes a long
time to be able to see beyondyourself and to realize you you
know what I mean? Like Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
Absolutely. Yeah. Mhmm. And and I think with with
the band, didn't even know thatI'd be spending more than half
my life now with those guys.Yeah.
And, you know, it's it's, youknow, it's it's I'm really proud
of that though, you know, thatwe've gone through so many
(18:03):
changes together and kept goingand kept it positive, kept
supporting each other.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Yeah. If you had advice that you could give to a
young musician, like, growing upin Canada right now, since we're
talking about that thattransition, do you have any
advice you'd give to either ayoung you or just a young, you
know, someone who's in theirlate teens, early twenties.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
You know, my advice to a younger person is find find
the people that you resonatewith and and ask questions, and
don't be afraid to admit youdon't know something. That
that's my younger self that I'dbe talking to.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
Yeah. Right? Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.
My my younger self as well.Yeah. But that's you know, a lot
Speaker 2 (18:51):
lot of people, I think, also with with, you know,
having a career, I feel veryfortunate to have a career in
music. I would say a similarthing is that find the people
that you resonate with, findfind the artists that you
connect with because that'stelling you something. When when
(19:15):
you just feel something whensomebody plays something, they'd
say their original song. Really,really note that that that's
special and follow-up on it andtalk to them, see what's going
on. And and because I thinksocially, I think it's an
important aspect of, you know,moving into a career.
There's certainly, yes,individual practicing. Sure. But
(19:39):
a big component is following andputting yourself alongside a
community of musicians thatinspire you.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
Yes. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
I think that's the biggest thing because I I feel
like I was fortunate that I didfind some people that I that
kinda blew my mind, really, andI was so fortunate to be with
them. We carried forward. Andtheir strengths, you know,
helped move the the band forwardin some ways, and my strengths
helped to move the band forwardin other ways. You know? Yeah.
(20:12):
Harmonically, musically, I'd hada little more experience than
the other guys. But songwritingwise, those guys, you know, they
really were had were werepulling me along. And so now I'm
like I I feel like I'm reallyjust starting to really feel
like, yes, I can stand by thatsong I just wrote. You know? I
(20:34):
mean, I there I'm not proud ofall the songs along the way, but
I feel like, you know, if youcan collectives are often I feel
like there's this feeling likeyou gotta make it yourself or,
you know, you it's all about youin but I think there's a little
more attention to how you engagewith other people.
(20:56):
I think it's a big thing. Yeah.And support other and accept
support. It's like
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I wanted to ask you about because
you you mentioned before thatthat you kinda met the guys at
that Scarborough Music Camp. Didyou do a lot of music camps
growing up or did you do anyother music camp?
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Every year. Oh, no. I mean, that one was the only one
I ever did. But it was likethere was a two two sessions at
the end of the year, one eachone a week long, and I did both.
Yeah.
So and we were all mentorsthere, and we were, you know, we
got to be take be a a mentor ina cabin for younger kids and
(21:38):
Yeah. Learn some leadershipskills. And it was it was an
amazing thing. I got to I got toplay with the teacher band. We
remember playing the chicken.
You know? Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
Electric?
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Yeah. Played it on electric bass.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Yeah. Because they knew I played it. Yeah. So they
knew I played it. And then itwas like, I got to play with
these, like, heavy players.
Like Yeah. They were reallyawesome players. I wanna see if
somebody could pull up some ofthe names. Chris. I'm mixing it
(22:16):
up with another friend of mine,Chris.
Anyways, Chris and Trimbonus waswith me.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
I just remember all these guys. They're just
amazing.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
Of course. Yeah. Yep. That's that's great. And so then
you ended up going to U of T.
So were you Yeah. At U of T forclassical? Or
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Yes. I was at U of T and for classic, you know,
double bass performance.Basically, the the program is
designed to really give you theskills to have a professional
career as a symphonic bassplayer primarily. Absolutely.
And so that's where I was going,and I studied under Thomas
(22:53):
Monahan.
Uh-huh. And that was reallygreat two years where I got to
and I still keep in touch withthe friends that I made and
collaborate with from that time,like Mark Fuhr, a violinist.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
We Yeah. Yeah. I know Mark.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Yeah. We just he played on some Barenaked Lady
records and just the most recentone. He played with me and my
brother. Rob Carley, another guythat I really connected with
there and continue tocollaborate with. And he's, you
know, is he's one of the mostprolific composers right now and
and arrangers in in Canada.
(23:29):
And, you know, I'd just know himas should've heard some of the
silly songs we made in inuniversity. And I would say that
if I had to talk to someonewho's in that situation, again,
like, as in my younger self inuniversity, the most important
thing that I feel I did was Icollaborated with a student
(23:50):
composer. She came to me lookingfor a a double bass player to
play with a a duet with a cello,and she had a piece. And so we
did it. We interpreted it.
It was a contemporary piece. Andthat whole process is what I
continue to do in just differentall different kind of styles of
(24:10):
music. And I feel like that wasjust one thing. It wasn't in the
curriculum. It was just sort ofa side thing.
But it was being in thatenvironment and being able to
have a chance to work andcollaborate was was amazing. The
symphonies, we playedStravinsky's Symphony Symphony
of Psalms, Psalm 29, full choir,almost like double orchestra.
(24:33):
Like, it was phenomenal. And I Ifeel like in some ways, the
sensibilities that I was exposedto and experienced is something
that it's like I've always triedto find that Indian in the
smallest pop setup or with theband. Like, it's almost like you
(24:54):
find, like, wine people.
Like, they really know reallygood wine. Because they've been
exposed to it and theyunderstand it, they researched
it. And so same with music, Ifeel if you're exposed to it and
you can connect with it, then itgives you like something on the
shelf that like you're alwaystrying to like, oh, wait a
(25:15):
minute. What was that? What wasthat feeling?
It's like a feeling you're goingfor. Like, it can be deeper. It
we can go for beauty in everymoment. So I feel like musically
that was a huge thing that I putin my backpack, being exposed to
the symphony. And now I I goback and I just go to the
(25:36):
symphony and like means evenmore, you know.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
It's it's so great because you're talking about all
these like really special. Imean, it all comes back to
community. Right? These amazingteachers and these amazing
people that you met, you know,that you're still making music
with and and I think it's it'ssuch a I mean, I think that's
why what we what we do is sospecial. Why why being being
able to create music and makemusic with people is such a I I,
(26:04):
you know, I always feel sofortunate that I'm able to do
You know?
It's like
Speaker 2 (26:09):
I feel so too. And I feel like the more I look
around, the more I I see thatit's the music is is in a way
it's a really heightened orimmersive experience with
working with people, unlessyou're a soloist, you know,
played by yourself. But the Ifeel like that situation can
(26:33):
inform other situations whereyou're working with people. So I
feel like in I got unfortunateyou and I are fortunate to do it
as a as a living, but to join acommunity choir and just get
that feeling of singing withpeople. And also and then you
can bring that to your job orbring that to your family and
(26:55):
just like you know, that you canfind this way of engaging with
people in an intimate way withmusic and then Right.
Allow that to inform the rest ofyour life. Yeah. But I think
that I'm really all for kindawhat my parents introduced,
which was singing for community,singing for life, playing music
(27:17):
for life for yourself, you know,with the others by yourselves.
Like, my son now, you know, heplays guitar as stress relief.
You know?
He's he he he never reallygrabbed on to, like, you know,
music lessons and all that, youknow, like, what I was into,
like, really going for it. Buthe has very talented and he he
(27:39):
found a space where it's inbetween studying for heavy exams
in university, reaches for theguitar, you know? Yeah. Yeah.
And it's it gives them a break.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
So speaking of of other bands, like, what were the
most what was what were yourfavorite bands growing up? And
and especially if if you had anyfavorite Canadian bands growing
up.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
I would say that oh, it's very simple because we
didn't have as much music. Wehad Sure. Maybe a record and
limited choice. So it was mybands that I was into was April
one. Mhmm.
I had that one record, Enter theBeast, I think it was called.
(28:26):
But, you know,
Speaker 1 (28:33):
Say hello. Say hello out now.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
Compositionally awesome pop Yeah. Rock music.
And, of course, Rush wasalongside of that was, you know,
I was a huge Geddy Lee fan and,you know, air based. My brothers
would we we were three of threebrothers and our you know, so we
each one guy with Andy was NeilPeart and John was Alex Leifson.
(29:06):
I was Geddy Lee.
Yeah. And so I guess from fromRush, I continued on to well, I
mentioned the nylons. Right?
Speaker 1 (29:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
So I was really into the nylons and and acapella
music. You know, I was into HueyLewis. And then in high school,
I got into really into a lot of,like, rockabilly and, well,
swing music, like, AmericanGraffiti swing swing music and
got you know, went to go see thefour lads and but yeah. Like,
(29:43):
Paul Anka, you know, this realswing music. And then and then
from there, yeah, it was likePaul Simon and Blacksmith Laiden
Leeswicke Black Mambazo.
My band covered all that stuff.And so yeah. Like no. It's the
(30:03):
Downchild Blues band.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
Doing it right on the wrong side of town. Anyways,
sling music. You know? And andand so that's that's kinda,
like, really the beginning. Andthen I then I started exploring
jazz and was until, like, PhilNimmin's and Mo Kaufman went to
see him at the Spaghetti House.
And then one night, we went andlet the spaghetti I it wasn't
(30:29):
the spaghetti fact what was it?It was like a deli. Georgia's
Spaghetti House.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
Georgia's Spaghetti House. Yeah. And then they had a
Speaker 2 (30:37):
deli in Yorkville, and I remember when I saw we
went, let's go to it's cold.Watch jazz till 3AM in the
morning. Okay. Yeah. And Iremember seeing these players
just jamming, and I just waslike, I wanna do that.
And Jim Jim Vivian was a hugehero of mine. I just loved his
playing very melodic and groovy.And then he and then let's talk
(31:01):
about the shuffle demons.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
Oh, yes.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
Oh my god. Oh, yes. So the shuffle demons, man. And
and just so funny, it's fullcircle, is I played with Richard
Underhill yesterday at thefarmer's market, and we've met
at we love shopping at farmer'smarkets, and we met, and he let
me play with him. But
Speaker 1 (31:19):
That's awesome.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
Jim Vivian, you know, Richard Underhill, Mike Murley,
those guys, Perry White, youknow, they they were a window
and a doorway, a portal into amusic again that really just
blew my mind because it it theytook the harmony and they just
(31:41):
blew the ceiling off of it. Andso atonal music and energy and
free playing started became intomy world. Right. And I later,
you know, explored that with BobWiseman when he opened for us on
the Barenaked Lady tour. We'dsit in and play.
We'd we were doing all the allthe theaters. So sometimes three
(32:03):
days in a row in a theater,Halifax or, you know, Brunswick,
Saint John's, Moncton, andthey'd have a piano, and we just
ask if we could play. And wejust played for hours just free
playing. Yeah. So and that sortof was tipped off by the shuffle
demons.
And then I met Bob who wasreally exploring Keith Jarrett
in open play. And and so that tome was, you know, talk about
(32:28):
influence and just really, like,again, hearing it's getting back
to that point of, like, hearingsomething that resonates with
you or maybe just makes youcurious and then following that
and asking some questions.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
I think that's the most important part, right? When
your interest is peaked, go.Like, go with it. Follow it.
Don't forget about that feeling.
So even if you even if youcan't, you know, follow
something right away, justkeeping that in mind. I mean,
like, This is that's somethingI'm really interested in. I'm
gonna remember to, like, youknow, pursue that whenever I can
(33:11):
and
Speaker 2 (33:11):
It means something. And sometimes it's just a very
small feeling and it could befleeting, but if you can just
remember, oh, wait a minute.There's something happened
there.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
It's so it's so awesome for me to hear you
mentioning these guys who arealso my heroes and people like I
remember going
Speaker 2 (33:28):
to see
Speaker 1 (33:28):
the shuffle demons at night when they had that
remember those New Year's Evefestivals they had in Toronto?
Speaker 2 (33:37):
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
And and so I you know, the the demons were, like,
leading the parade doing Spadinabus, and I was I was, whatever,
nine years old. I was like, ohmy god. I love them. They're so
great. And it was opening mymind to Yes.
To jazz
Speaker 2 (33:51):
So awesome.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
How fun music can be and just this this sense of
community. I was like, oh mygod. They're writing songs about
Toronto. And then, you know, andthen I'm discovering the
Barenaked Ladies. My god.
They're writing songs about Thisis like understand this. I I
yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
It's just such an amazing facts.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
Yeah. Such such an amazing feeling.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
Another guy another guy, just we just had one is
George Collar. Yeah. GeorgeCollar. He he he, you know, he
played with the shuffle demonsas well. And he, you know, he
said, hey, man.
Let's get together. You know?And we did we did the same
thing. We went got two basestogether, and we just played
Speaker 1 (34:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
Free for Yeah. Hours and hours. And and we did did it
once, but wow. What a niceperson to kind of like take a
young guy and go, hey, man.Let's just play.
You know? And it was happenedonce, but it it was like
pivotal.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
I wanted to bring this now to just talk about the
song that that I fell in lovewith by the Barenaked Ladies,
which is When I Fall.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
I love that too. I love that one.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
So I I now I fell in love with it off of the live
album, off of Rock Spectacle. Idon't know why specifically that
version over the album. I thinkit's just that's the one that
ended up on my playlist that II've been listening to for the
last twenty five years. So Yeah.You know?
Speaker 2 (35:18):
Well, it's well, what's cool about it what's cool
about it being on the liverecord is you're really getting,
you know, the bare bones of ofthe band playing. And I and,
really, they're actually, theoriginal is not that off the the
studio version is not thatdifferent. Similar. But I think
that song really can it's it canreally just stand on its own
(35:44):
with really simple parts. And II as a bass player, you know,
this is the album that mybrother was not in the band.
So I really felt a lot of I feltlike I needed to kinda step up
melodically as a musician, but Iwas, you know, the bass player.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
And then as the song is very circular song, so the
the the chords kind of are inthis revolving circle, and it
gave me a chance to kind ofchange the foundation of it as
it went to to develop to to toprogress the song. And it became
(36:32):
it it really I'm really proud ofhow that it sort of opens up,
sort of blossoms as the songgoes on, as the guy is singing
about being a window washer andjust completely scared of
falling, but wondering whatwould be like Yeah. To fall.
Like, he was exploring thesethis reality and and then
(36:56):
reflecting on his life aboutdeath and the deaths of his
grandfather. What would youknow, what does that mean?
How does that affect his howdoes that weigh against his life
right now? And it's almost likethis contemplation of, you know,
falling and losing control,losing control of your life. And
(37:18):
this and but in the same time,sort of being grateful for it at
the same time. That's what Itake from the song anyways. And
so yeah.
Very I I mean, I actually couldtell you where I got I realized
that that's how to progresssomething was when I was in U of
(37:40):
T. Is this okay if I like, I'mjust drawing connections. I was
in a I don't know. It's kind ofin a hack around sort of jazz
combo, but the it was the yearbefore the U of T had a jazz
program. So they were auditionauditioning deans for to lead
(38:01):
the program.
And so they got they turned alittle audition. They used my
band as the audition band, andthey had a it was like a master
class with a potential dean. Andhis name was Dean, but I forget
his last name. But anyways, hehe he told me like, hey. When
you're playing, you know, if youwanna create a little more
(38:21):
intensity, you know, just whatcan you do?
Maybe a more little morerhythmic intensity, little more
action, little activity, Youknow? Or you could also do that
by going up and register. Maybethat maybe that can create,
like, that that movement goingup is something you can you as a
bass player can do to move thispiece forward. And I used it
(38:45):
right in that song. I used it inarranging Eid.
Like, we arranged if you listento that, all that is about this.
More rhythmic intensity and moreand going up at pitch, like and
adding more harmony. You know?It's and so it's like, it's
amazing these little moments ofthat you grab and then how it
(39:05):
plays out later in, you know, inthe action.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
So so when someone brought in a tune, so someone
brings in a tune to the band,like, because you are a
collective, is it the kind ofthing where someone brings in a
tune and then it's just itbecomes the band's baby and
everyone kind of gives their oris it more like composer?
Speaker 2 (39:29):
Does it become the band's
Speaker 1 (39:30):
baby by the You
Speaker 2 (39:33):
don't know. And that's the kind of the
insecurity of bringing it to theband is that you what makes it a
band is that everybody has to bestand by a song that's on that
record. Like, they have to findthemselves in it. And sometimes
that song's not gonna make it.You might might be your favorite
(39:53):
song and might might not makeit.
But everybody's usually just theprocess is about caring about
that song and and finding waysto bring it out and make it
shine. And so I think that'ssomething it's that the band's
already been always been reallygood at is going in and digging
(40:14):
in and finding a way. You know?There's a story that Tom Petty I
heard him on a podcast orsomething or some interview
where he was talking aboutbringing a song to the band, and
the heartbreakers would get intheir in their workshop and ask,
why don't we do this? Maybe wecut that, you know, cut a couple
bars off that, you know, changethe key.
(40:35):
And he just said, like, doesanybody think this is a good
song? You know, it's Tom Fetti.Right? Is that like, does
anybody think this is good?Like, because they didn't go,
oh, man.
I love this song.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
They're like, working there right away. Like, how can
we what can we do? How can wemold this?
Speaker 2 (40:58):
Yeah. How can we bring this out? Yeah. And so
with when I fall, it was I lovedthe song already. Like, it was a
very like, it was something thatSteve and Ed really have like, I
could tell.
Like, it was it was just theyput something more into this
one, and and I really wanted tohonor that.
Speaker 1 (41:16):
Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
Well, I actually, I you know, you sent me the song.
You guys did. I really I reallylove what you did because you
you found a a the cyclical chordprogression and and sort of
allowed that to to keep keeprevolving, And and it it was
very trance y. I love that youdid that because, yeah, I I love
(41:40):
that aspect of it too. Like, Ifind in as a especially as a
bass player rhythm section, oneof my biggest jobs is to create
a feeling or a state of trancein the music so that so that the
melody can kind of be this sortof stream of consciousness, this
sort of stream of of leading abody that is in motion.
Speaker 1 (42:07):
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I ended up putting
putting the melody in the bass,not you know, just because I
don't know. Kinda felt like oneof those where it was like, it's
such a beautiful I don't know.
It's such a beautiful melody andthe horns always get the melody,
but no. Why not just get get letthe bass play the melody and
just have the horns kind of likeplay pads in the background and
(42:29):
let let the let the bass reallysing. You know, the bass is such
a beautiful instrument.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
It's a it's a very it's a basic instrument. So it's
the simplest almost. So when themelody goes in it, it's very
humble. Right. It's a humbleinstrument to to represent the
melody, I find.
And that's another thing is thatyou're you're instrumental band.
You know? How do you that's awhole other challenge because
(42:55):
you get one big part of the songthat's now not being
represented. So how do youcontinue how do you continue
that? Like, find the theemotional I find that's a big
challenge is to findinstrumentally nuances
emotionally.
Right.
Speaker 1 (43:14):
Yeah. Absolutely. I think, I mean, that that is
always the challenge is istrying to to because I you know,
obviously with this song, I havea huge emotional connection to
it just from, you know, havinglistened to it for my whole
life, basically, and just eversince it came out. And so it's
trying to get that that love ofthis music and the the respect
(43:38):
for it across. I think, youknow, basically, I I'm always
trying to just present things asI don't know.
I mean, as I think honoring theparts that I really find
beautiful, you know, and makingsure that like in this song,
Speaker 2 (43:58):
it's Right.
Speaker 1 (43:58):
Like that melody is is is beautiful and the way it
the way it sits on the changesis is really beautiful. And so I
thought, okay. Well, I'm gonnawrite Mhmm. They try and
highlight this melody by makinglike, piano is not even in. The
piano I think on the track, hedoesn't the piano doesn't come
in until the bridge.
But the song starts with atrombone solo just over bass.
(44:22):
And and so it's just like, itstarts super mellow, then and
then the changes don't reallycome in, or at least they're not
filled out for, like, two orthree minutes. It's just like,
you know, trying to keep it niceand sparse. Yeah. And just And
and and we kinda made it youknow, get a little gospel feel
and
Speaker 2 (44:41):
Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know what? I yeah. I could see
that.
I mean, he's talking he'stalking about, you know, these
soul searching. Yeah. You know?I could see that. Boldly.
Speaker 1 (44:53):
Well, I I just wanna thank you so much for, you know,
in well, inspiring me andinspiring a whole generation of
musicians, you know, over I youknow, because and especially the
fact that, you know, as a as ayoung music nerd myself, having
a band that I could that I,like, totally you know, my
(45:16):
favorite bands in grade eightwere the Barenaked Ladies and
Guns N' Roses. And you couldn'tbe more different than the
Barenaked Ladies and Guns N'Roses, but I was Yeah. So
passionate about both. You know?And Yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:29):
Oh, love patience. I love patience.
Speaker 3 (45:31):
So great.
Speaker 2 (45:32):
Love when I came in.
Speaker 1 (45:32):
So great. So thank and thank you for coming on
today and and chatting with meabout, you know.
Speaker 2 (45:39):
Oh, it's my pleasure. I will I yeah. I would love to
keep the conversation going. Ithink the more I wouldn't even
you know, just hearing how youryour attachment to the song, I
mean, that really makes it, youknow, something that recorded in
1993 or '94. And hearing youbring it, you know, and ex
(46:02):
exploring your connection to it,it's like Yeah.
It keeps it alive. It keeps,again, those small feelings,
like, sometimes we forget. Like,I know? And then you bring it
back, and I'm thinking about thethe room, you know, where we
recorded the and the feeling andthe of working with the people
(46:23):
there, Michael Phillip, Voivoda.I'm just I'm going back there.
And and I'll just hearing theway, you know, you're talking
about it and just the context ofhow you were listening to it
with your family and, you know,the high school, you know, and
yeah. It's it's great. I I loveI love I think it's all part
Speaker 1 (46:42):
of it. Community and and, you know, supporting each
other and and lifting each otherYeah. And inspiring each other.
I mean, that's the name of thegame. Right?
That's that's Yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:56):
Yeah. Well, I'm playing at the Farmer's market,
Trinity Bellwoods, Tuesday.Bring your bring your There you
go. Drumsticks.
Speaker 1 (47:04):
Yeah. Well, that's yeah.
Speaker 3 (47:06):
There you go. That sounds amazing.
Speaker 2 (47:08):
Actually, I was I'm not running the show. It's not
my gig. It's Richard Underhill.
Speaker 1 (47:12):
So send a text to Rich. Be like, hey, man. Who's
playing? Who's drumming? What doyou what Yeah.
Who's playing, man? Exactly.Great. Well, thank you so much.
And and hopefully, you know,obviously, it'd be it'd be a
blast to make music together atsome point for sure.
But but Yeah. Yeah. Thank youfor doing this and thanks for
everything and we'll chat againsometime soon, hope.
Speaker 2 (47:35):
Nice chatting, Ernesto. Take care. Alright.
Speaker 1 (54:16):
Great. Yeah. That was beautiful. Yeah. It was a good
take.
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